The Athletic Hockey Show - Don Granato on coaching the Sabres, Spencer Knight extends the Panthers, Jarry's gaffe has the Penguins on the brink and Connor McDavid's Oilers swept from the playoffs,

Episode Date: May 25, 2021

In this episode, Craig Custance and Sean Gentille recap a busy night in the NHL playoffs. The Penguins, with a struggling Tristan Jarry between the pipes are on the brink of elimination, after Jarry delivered a pizza to Josh Bailey for the Islanders win. Custance and Gentille praise the work of Spencer Knight in his playoff debut for Florida and wonder what the Cats should do with Sergey Bobrovsky. Plus the guys discuss Kyle Connor's triple OT goal in Winnipeg, and Connor Helebuyck holding Connor McDavid to one goal in the Jets four game sweep over the Oilers.Craig and Sean welcome Don Granato, the interim head coach of the Buffalo Sabres to the show, and chat about the steps he and the Sabres took after he replaced Ralph Krueger behind the bench. Don, a superior development coach talks about the veterans who helped him fit in, as the bench boss in Buffalo and working with young players like Rasmus Dhalin, Casey Mittlelstadt and Linus Ulmark. He also talks about his association with Auston Matthews who has brought his game to a new level with the Leafs. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey, this is Craig Custin's of The Athletic, joined with my good friend and colleague, Sean Gentile for the Tuesday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. And what a show we have for you today. Sean, how are you, my friend? Doing great. Had another late night last night, I think there were, let me know if I lost count of this. I think there were 12 or 13 overtimes in the games last night, including the one I covered. It was a late one.

Yeah, we are pumping coffee this morning. And so let's not even mess around and get into really light years, most important game. I mean, there's been so many good games. But one to me, it stood out like a sore thumb. And of course, I mean the United States beating Canada 5-1 in the world. So let's start there. 26 saves from Jake Ottinger, Trevor Moore, the player of the game. Where would you rank this in American wins, Sean?

It's a great question, Craig. I have it at number seven over the last 25 years. My big board will be going up later this day. Oh, you have a big board. Yeah. People are going to love it. They're going to go crazy. Wait, don't you see what's at number 17.

People are going to get upset. This is how it brings the U.S. If you're tracking and following the world, which I am, of course, is now one. I love the world. Oh, oh, and one. in the World Championships preliminary round, which lasts three months. A lot of people don't know that

about the world's preliminary rounds. I think you might actually have the top 50 world games of the last of like the 21st century. I'm pretty sure. It'd be a combo. It's between you and Chris Johnston, I think you guys have to have some kind of, some kind of mental ranking going.

You know what? So that's just passed on from Pierre, Not to get off track immediately, but LeBron always would say, you got to go to the world, you got to go to the worlds, it's great. And Chris and I are, you know, we listened to him and did it and love it. But even this year's, like, it's really hard. At least some years, there's some good things. I will say this, and we'll move on to the playoffs.

Jason Robertson, again, was good in that game. And I would go read us a piece by Sadius. If we should have him on, like the year Robertson had, and now he's continuing it for the national, team. If you're a stars fan, like that's, you know, you probably don't care about the playoffs. That at least gets you something fun to watch. I think there was like that two or three week period where it felt like Robertson was making a legitimate Calder run. And it didn't, like, he's not, he's not, he's not going to win it. It's, it's Caprizobs, you know, to lose.

We, we, we shouldn't pretend otherwise. But there was that stretch where Robertson was making, was making a legitimate, a legitimate push. Yeah, he's a, he's a, he's a, he, he's a, he's a, He's a, he's a good player and he's a major bright spot for the stars. And what was such a bizarre season for them, man, that was just, it was, they're a fascinating team, but there was some, it was, it was just a really uneven, unlucky, unlucky kind of deal for them. But I think Robertson is, you know, the, the, the unquestioned bright spot coming out of it for him. Let's start with the game that you were covering the Penguins Islanders. The Islanders have now taken a three-two lead.

Barry Trots with the Penguins kryptonite We can't say we're surprised About the Islanders ever right Like at this point Like this is this is what they do In the Lulamrillo Barry Trots era But holy cow

What's going on in that series? It's Tristan Jari turning into a pumpkin I think I think that's I think that's what it is He's single-handily lost two games Game one was you know Four bad goals You know four bad glove side goals And last night was, you know, at one point shots were 45 to 24 penguins or whatever it was.

That was pretty much all out domination, including largely in the third period, by the way, which had been something we hadn't seen over the course of this. It was like you'd get two good periods from the penguins, then one great one from the islanders to kind of close stuff out that would, you know, either tip the game or cause Pittsburgh to kind of white-knuckle it. But yeah, it was a brutal effort by Jari, just a terrible giveaway. And then just a weird effort on the shot he created. So, yeah, it's a situation where Pittsburgh's been the better team at five on five. They've been the better team overall.

But goalie play counts too in Ilyosuriken. It's kind of a big deal in the playoffs. So I've heard. And Ilya Syrokin is a lot better than Tristan Jari. The gap is significant. And that's what the difference in that game was last night. I, like, we don't have to overanalyze the penguins just yet because there's still some serious to be played. And God knows, God knows I'm going to, I'm about to have more than, more than enough of that ahead of me.

But, like, I think they handled the Matt Murray situation perfectly. You don't want to, I don't think anyone in Ottawa sitting here saying they made the right call trading for him, giving them that big contract. But the bad on Jari, that's, now is. a huge gamble with only the last few years of the Krasby-Malkin dynasty on the line. And gosh, I just hate to see it. That's how it's ending because you made the wrong bet on a goalie. That's rough. They've had a lot tight up in him over the last eight years.

You look at how they drafted them. They traded, you know, I mean, granted, this is eight years ago or nine years ago or whatever it is, but they traded Tyler Kennedy for a second round pick and then used the second the third to trade farther up into the second to draft Tristanjari and on and on and on. You go back. I mean, they have a lot of, you know, granted, this is, this is, this is, this is the last administration. This isn't, this isn't Ron Hextall who's tied to Tristanjari, right? But there, there have been a lot of assets and a lot of, a lot of, a lot of different branch points where they've chosen Tristanjari over, over somebody else. And right now it is, it is not

paying off. Well, I love goalie stuff. And, and, like, This off season, and if we have time, we can even get to it because there's going to be a lot of carousel in that. And it's really relevant to some of these teams we're talking about. But this Florida series that I just left from, came back from Tampa over the weekend, way late for Spencer Knight's arrival. I mean, you and I would have started him game one, of course. Buddy, buddy, you missed it. I thought you were going to be down there for the inevitable rise of Spencer Knight. You should have been the game one starter in that series.

Let's go. Oh, my gosh. It's great. It gives up a goal in the first shot he sees. But when you're American hero, Spencer Knight, this is, by the way, we got Jack Campbell was the original Spencer Knight with the Saturday yesterday. Connor Hallibuck, you know, advancing. It's the American goalies, what a performance.

And we've seen like every, every tier of the generations, right, minus the old guys. So it's. It was a fun, it was a fun three days for Craig Anderson, too. He counts. That's right. Can I get interested in this moment? That's right. That's right.

So Spencer Knight saves the, like, I still don't feel, I mean, anything can happen, right? If they can get that to a game seven. Like, Tampa's the better team. Florida is showing a lot. You know, you admire what they're doing. But now this kind of just throws a, I don't know, throws a wild card in the equation. What if you just have this kid who's a superstar? You should have.

They should have seen it coming. This was inevitable. The only question was which game it was going to happen. And unfortunately, it was not game one. On some level, this is the best case scenario for the Panthers in solving the Bobrovsky situation. Because you can't buy them out yet, I don't think. No. I mean, maybe you can, but it's such a monstrous contract and such a huge cabinet.

I can't remember who's, was that you who wrote that originally? It was somebody who was just talking about how this does kind of line up perfectly, because whether it's a because you can't you can't move bob you can't buy him out yeah you can kind of have a timeshare situation or whatever between him and spencer night over the next over the next few years and by the time bob's deal ends you know ideally that's when you know but i mean i'm i'm sure for the last three years of it he will have been a legitimate backup to spencer night and i'm sure that's the way i'm sure that's the way this succession plan would go but yeah it does it does it seems next year. Totally. It seems it seems like that's the way it's a lot easier to bench

Sergei Babrovsky in that in that gigantic ridiculous contract when you're when you're putting him behind a guy like Spencer Knight you can't kind of you can't you can't get away with it when it's Chris Drieger or or whoever when you have the blue chip dude especially when he comes in and maybe maybe has one or two or three or twelve or of great playoff games in a row. You could... What if he just goes on a run right now? And he's like...

You know, I think it's going to happen. I think... Oh, you do. You're predicting this. I'm predicting this is... I think lightning win game. I'm predicting. No, no, no, not just that.

I'm predicting a Florida Panthers, Stanley Cup. On the on the shoulders of Spencer night. No, it is. It is a weird, you know, if you're talking about the Bob kind of succession plan, I think that's, I think that, I think this is a best case scenario. You know, if night plays well, it sets them up well for next season, and it removes a lot of those questions. Like, this isn't the way you want to do it,

but if you're just stepping back and you're doing cap management and you say, okay, how much do you want to spend in goaltending? You know, 11 million, whatever Bob plus an entry level is, and, you know, if you can just get over the fact that 10 million is going to your backup. Is it an equitable split between your goaltenders? It is not. But you can survive. We've seen teams spend way more than that.

That's like the kind of math you start doing if you're at like, if you're at like a poker table or something. And you start like like spreading it out over a couple days. And you're like, you know, I didn't I didn't lose that much yesterday. So it's kind of like I just, it's kind of like I lost X on both days. I mean, that's basically, I lost an average of whatever over the, of. over the course of a week, and it's really not that bad. The fun thing about the Panthers is I know there were people who believed that if Ascaroff had slipped to Florida, they were going best player available and taking him, which would

have been, I mean, who knows, it's all revisionist history or what if, but I love that scenario where you have, where you just spent 10 million on a goalie, and then you just draft every great goalie available because you're really truly believe in best player available in the draft. Yeah, but the flip side of that is Pittsburgh. who drafted Tristan Jari in one round and Matt Murray in the other one year. They drafted two goalies last year, not to turn this in like a Penguin's goalie podcast, but like when you sometimes if you stack the system and you're and you consistently have two

goalies, you have none. It's like the old quarterback saying. So yeah, I don't know. I'm a big fan of best player available in sports just generally. But I think I think goalies also kind of. It's kind of funky. I know we like to stick to the American teams and have an American theme, but Connor McDavid getting swept is too huge of a story to ignore in the hockey world.

And we can Americanify it by saying it was Kyle Connor who scores, you know, the winner and Connor Hellebuck advancing our sneaky American Winnipeg jets with Blake Wheeler leading the charge. What is, we're, what is Winnipeg if not, if not. Northern Minnesota, baby. That's it. Minnesota North. That's right. We'll take Minnesota North.

I think we should just adopt of all the Canadian teams. Although, if we were to do a ranking of some sort, I mean, you've got Cole Coughfield in Montreal and, you know, he's playing. You've got Austin Matthews and Jack Campbell leading the way. Very heavy American influence on those Canadian teams. But Connor McDavid swept out of the first round. I know you've got some thoughts, Sean, on Connor and maybe what we're seeing in his best years of his life. It's not great for anybody. I don't think.

Besides the Jets, it's great for the Jets. No, it's fine. It's really not that big of a deal. That's what Kent Holland told me, right? You can't, you can't, you can't try to win a Stanley Cup every year. That's just, that's crazy talk. I don't think he said he was not trying to win a Stanley Cup. Dude, I...

He was saying you can't push in at the deadline. Yeah. You don't... That makes sense if you don't have Connor McDavid. If you're talking about the back nine for Henrik Zetterberg and whoever else, the kind of teams that Ken Holland had at the end in Detroit. And also, by the way, pushed all in on, like with some regularity there when they didn't have the goods that Connor McDavid does.

Yes, you can. That's the one thing. That's the one thing. thing that the penguins have gotten right. You have a borderline moral imperative to try to make the best of these guys' years while you can. And they have the hard stuff figured out in Edmonton. That's the frustrating part, right? They're not talking about going out and finding a number one a number one defenseman or whatever. Add depth pieces, try to shore up the goaltending and try because you have Connor McDavid and you have Leon Drysidal

and they're 24 and 25 years old. Like get a grip. You are not talking about some 41 and 41 team that doesn't have a top six center. It's psychotic. And we're being cheated out of great years by those guys and potentially great playoff runs. Just because what?

Because they didn't feel like dumping a third round pick for a half decent deficit. forward is a joke. Do we think that was going to make a difference? I mean, I guess you could argue when every single game in the series goes to overtime, had you, and I'm trying to think of who the, you know, depth forward they could have added or whatever would have been. But this is, this is not, you know, okay, Nashville didn't do anything at the deadline.

They went out and added Eric Good Branson. Like, okay, that's fine. You're the Nashville Predators. And no disrespect to Philip Forsberg But when your best forward is Philip Forsberg How dare you? You know where I stand on Philip Forsberg We all

Yeah, I do know where you stand on Philip Forsberg Because we overpay for him In our fantasy draft every single year Yeah, as Craig loves Philip Forsberg Like, but that group of players Is just not like what they have In Edmonton That's just the way it is

Like when you have When you have a talent like that especially when he's midway through this, so he blinks and we're talking about him having five years left on his deal. Like this doesn't, this doesn't, this doesn't come around that often. So do something. Don't make Dimitri Kulikov, your big deadline deal. I'm sorry. I hear you. It is interesting. I like the penguin's comparison because I guess the thought is you never, if you, if you're pushing all in every year, you never can have, you know, assets and young players. And somehow the bigweds continue to have, they've been doing it since

they traded for Marion Hosa back in the 90s. Like, they've been pushing in. Back in 1996, Hosa and Dupre. Like, was there every year they took the foot off the gas? Probably like, they never did. No. And it's, and you know, they had to augment stuff in other ways. That's, you saw them go pretty, pretty heavily into you know, the college free agent round and whatever. And they got, and they got lucky, you know, so I, so I, I'm, and I'm, I'm really, I'm not an advocate of just trading first round picks just because, but, you know, not every team has Connor McDavid. It's, it really, it really is that simple.

Like there's, there's, if, if you're a borderline eighth or ninth seed in, in, in the playoffs and, and all you're doing is potentially taking yourself out of the draft, lottery, like, yeah, hold tight. Keep, keep those cards. Don't move anything. When you're, when you're talking about McDavid and Dry Sighto, and oh, by the way, a defense that, uh, that seems to have finally gotten, gotten fixed in one way or another, add some stuff around the margins. Make, make the attempt. How much did Darnel Nurse play this? Do he have his final ice time? Darnedle Nourst, did he play? I'm looking up right now. He actually played 82 minutes. What a, what a, what a game. What a performance on Tharnsauters. What a game.

my darnel nurse. Oh my gosh. All right, let's touch on the other series. So Minnesota, the Plucky Wild somehow extends that series. I don't know. That series, I feel like Vegas is going to, nature is going to have its way there. Were you surprised to see that, to see that get extended a day? I thought that was, I thought they were, thought they were a cook last night.

Yeah. So I think that's, I think my Vegas Golden Knights, my Stanley Cup pick, my champion, we are on a collision course with the best, with a Colorado Vegas second round. which is going to be amazing, not to get ahead of ourselves. How much? Okay, so I'm fine. I think I'm fine with that being in the second round. I know there's people who were wound up over that not being a conference final, but I like the idea of, like, I don't really have that much of a problem with that happening.

Nashville, Carolina, somehow, I want to say, two, two. I love these series that you look away for a second because it was one of those that's like, oh, Carolina's going to run away with that. Yeah. UC Soros, baby. Yeah, I mean, yeah, not to oversimplify. Here's what I would say about the Predators. I think people have gotten them wrong.

And maybe it is UCSarrows. Maybe that's it. Maybe it's that simple. When I talk to people in hockey about the Predators, they're like, eh, don't love the makeup of that team. Like, there's a couple of the guys, there's always this kind of underlying, like, don't love this guy, good player, but don't love the way you can,

you know what you mean? Like, they've collected some players that people don't love. You're laughing. Yeah, I'm just. It's just talking about, right? I'm laughing. Well, you know, right. It's, it's, you know, I like Matthew Shane, but I don't love him as a whatever.

I like Ryan Johantham. I don't love him at whatever. Like the contracts always factor, at least always this, except for like Yossi and Eckle. Everyone's like, of course those guys are great. But there's always this feeling of like there's, yeah, they don't want to compete or, I don't know, like in general as a core. And all we've seen other predators is them get Olympians. eliminated from the playoffs almost or whatever, about to dump, and they've battled back. And now they've battled back in the series.

Maybe we should say, you know, Nashville is, is, maybe has a little bit more fight than we want to give them credit for. I think that's part of it. But I think in a way, it's, it's this series, you know, I don't want to be reductive about it. I know, I just say, you know, UC Soros is, you know, like, like, that's the beginning and the end of the reasons. But I do think, I do think that's, that's the top line thing. And even in one of those games that he lost, you know, he's, he's, he was making, he was making it tough for Carolina if, if nothing else. So yeah, I think that's, I'm just glad to, I'm glad to have that series, honestly. I think that turning into like a low, a low key, pretty solid first

round series was sort of, was, that's a, that's a welcome thing. It was, it's good to have some of these, some of these four seeds that people were kind of writing off, you know, if not have outright, control of this just giving us giving us something else to watch so yeah I appreciate all of it it's been great like every night there's a bunch of great games they're finally staggering I feel like we have some times that work for us to

actually do the games and not have 10 intermissions on at the same time it only took 18 years of NBC sports for them to for them to finally figure out that you don't need every game starting at 7 or 730 or 8 And now we lose them. NBC, it was great. We figured it out and on to ESPN.

Well, well, bye. All right, we've got a great interview with Don Granato. That was so much fun. I don't even know, I don't know how much of the pre-roll we're allowed to use or if we're going to use any of it. I wish we recorded the whole, like, we should honestly, when we flip the switch on the Zoom, when whoever the guest arrives, we should just start recording. Like, forget the fancy intros because that ends up being, he was so enthralled, Sean, by your trashed room. Like, right away. Immediately.

Like, this was not like, hi, it's nice to see you. No, he doesn't. He also doesn't know me from a man on the street, right? That's what made right. I'd literally never spoken to Don Granado before. And I sat down all of a sudden, it was like, I was on a Zoom with like one of my uncles who was like busting my troughs for having a, like, right away. having a messy room. It was immediately. He was like, I, I think I, I think I have that effect on

people. Like, like, I just got one of those faces. People look at me and they're just like, yeah, I'm going, I'm going in on this dude. But it was, well, it was great. It was great. If you had that face in, like, drawers pushed in as you do now, it would have been, yeah, I don't think, but, like, you don't help yourself by, like, recording your interview in a completely trash room. And then you tweet about it. And so now it's getting passed around in the company Slack room. People are like, is Sean okay? Do we need to check? in and Sean. Yeah, do we need to do we need to do a wellness check because he had two of his drawers and a visible dresser opened up. Here is my problem was that last week Ryan Miller talked to us

over the phone. Yesterday, Don Granado talked to us over his iPad. I don't care what you think of the condition of my bedroom. I'm not I'm not worried if Craig if Craig Custins can, you know, see in my, see in my, my gym short store or drawer or whatever. Your opinion doesn't matter to me. I, I had, I had, I had no idea that, uh, that Don was going to be on the iPad. So it was, it was a, it was a funny way to start it. And it was all, all totally, totally goodhearted, just chops, bust and stuff from him. And after, after it all, we ended up having a really nice talk with him about, you know,

his future and the job he did with the sabers and the job he's done in the past with the developmental team in Austin Matthews. Yeah, it was a it was it was a really good talk and it started out and about the funnest way possible. I am now thrilled to introduce Don Grado, fantastic coach. Great year with the Buffalo Sabres in terms of what they were able to accomplish in his tenure. But really, I'm most, excited because we've just spent the last 20 minutes critiquing Sean Gentile's backdrop in his dresser drawers. And now I see, Don, how your ability to articulate what someone needs to do to get better. I think now we've seen it in action. Push the drawers in, Sean. What a, what a, what,

what a professional segue that was from Greg. It was so easy. Don's big advice, Don's big advice is to push in my drawers. It was so easy. I would love to get a picture of that out, and I would love to create a backdrop of that. I think that would be an outstanding backdrop. I have a very neat and tidy room, but put a backdrop of Sean's room in there. That's right. Everyone's new Zoom background is Sean Gentilly's bedroom with drawers and clothes everywhere. Next Zoom interview you do, we'll have a University of Pittsburgh banner very inauspiciously in the back in an unmade bed. I'm guessing you're single, Sean. You betcha. What could have given you that idea, Don? It's very stupid. Oh my goodness.

Don, thanks for doing this, first of all. We were excited that you were willing to do it. And Sean and I had a conversation earlier today, and we were just talking over a few things. And in terms of what we want to dive into. And I think, first and foremost, when we both were reading some of the exit interviews from the players in Buffalo, it was really interesting to me. And one from, like, there was some quotes from Casey Midlstadt that really jumped out that basically said, I owe Donnie a huge thank you. Like there was a lot of like, we owe Donnie a lot for what happened. When you hear that, the impact you've been able to make, especially with those,

that younger generation of savers, you know, what did that mean to you? That means, boy, that means quite a lot as a coach. You know, I guess a simple thing to say, that means everything. It's what you, because as a coach, one thing you don't get to feel. or the players don't get to feel how much you care about them. You are, you know, you play that father role in the position we are in as coaches. We have to push them and demand of them every day for more and to be better and to become, you know, what their potential is and chip away at that.

So you're the one person that kind of holds that position that, you know, pushes each in every player. So lost in that, a lot of times is on the player's side, they don't feel how much you may care about them. And that over the years, you know, I've had lots of players now, young kids that are in the NHL. And that's the hardest part. You know, they leave. And they're, it's almost like in the back of their head, they're wondering, does this guy like me or not? You know, because you end up pushing him so hard. And, you know, it's like the end of the school year when you see them off. You want to give him a big hug and tell them thanks, but they're not, it's like they're not in that, you know, that's, that's tougher for them than it is for you as a coach, because you know

the reasons you've done it. Sometimes the player loses that in the competitive fire of the moment and business we're in. So when you hear some of the things that Casey had said, you know, that you're referencing there, Craig, it's very rewarding as a coach because I did push Casey. I did demand a lot of him. And it was always on the outer edge of his comfort zone. And he responded. And, you know, to add to the fact that he realizes I care about him is even a big bonus, actually. And it wasn't, I mean, obviously, you have that history with Casey. You have history with a fair amount of guys on that roster, but it wasn't just them. I mean, it was, it was, it's a guy like Kyle O'Poso who, you know, hadn't played, hadn't played for

you before. And he's, he's, he's a guy who's been there and done that. He's 33. He's been the league for a long time. And he said that this was the most fun he had playing in the NHL, which is, I mean, coming from a veteran who's kind of made his bones and doesn't have and isn't in that development phase of his career, like a guy like Casey is. I mean, that's another, that was another kind of standout, I think, from some of the exit interviews that I saw at least. Yeah, that was also, you know, credit to Kyle. I mean, he was spectacular. And we had a lot of veteran players that were great, specifically to me, Ristelainen was outstanding. Reinhardt was outstanding.

Eric Stahl just before we traded and was great to me. So was Taylor Hall. And, you know, I took over in difficult circumstances. And I really made a concentrated effort to lean on those guys to, to, you know, enlist them to work, you know, in concert with me and our coaching staff. And then the other component, you know, involved in all of this that you didn't hear, you know, you didn't mention it. Kyle might not have mentioned, but was felt was the whole staff. I've coached a long time and was very, you know, there were aspects of moving into this position I was uncomfortable with,

but I was very comfortable with and it held water. It was very true was the competence of the people around me on our staff. Matt Ellis, Dan Gerardi were unbelievable. Our goalie coach, Mike Bales is more than a goalie coach. She's a competitive guy that has a real good sense and feel for things, just like the other two guys I mentioned. And then we have two video guys, as most NHL staffs do. And they're at the top of the chart there.

They were dialed in right away with any system changes we needed to make. It could communicate it well. It could pick it out, you know, help us even in between periods on stuff. So I bet around long enough to know I was in a really good position inheriting those guys and their competence really helped out in this matter. I get to meet Matt Ellis and know him a little bit at one of Darryl Belfry's sessions in Florida. And it was, what a great dude and smart. Like, it was just fun to, like, sit there and watch those guys in action,

break and film down and then instructing on the ice. He is, yeah, he is, well, if you met him, you know, he is passionate guy and just has a love, a pure love of the sport of hockey. He's just into it. he's spoken of going down with Daryl and being around those players. He's referenced that a couple times in our conversations over the last couple months, and you can just see the excitement light up in his eyes and the energy. Yeah, so he's a lot of fun to be around with.

And Danny Gerrardy very similar in that regard. I wanted to get a little bit into the process. And I think Casey's a great way to do it and kind of hone in because, you know, here's a guy that maybe is underachieving or a lot of pressure on. him as a young player and he says, and you said, you challenged him and you pushed him outside his comfort zone. Can you, can you shed a little bit of light or like lift the curtain a little bit to show what that looks like in specifics to Casey? Well, yeah, I would say I'll start general, you know, to start. There are certain things that the players do well. Their skill set is,

you know, a player has to identify with his skill set. And then, you know, you know, a player has to identify with his skill set. And then you have to, in my opinion, you have to help them with imprinting that skill set on the game or situations within the game. You also have to work and say, okay, what might be his liability's limits present day? You know, is it size and strength? Is it speed right now? Is he playing with an injury at speed because of an injury? So, you know, you're working in the context of all of that. And the goal would be, obviously, to win. in hockey games and win situations. But to make sure that guy feels good about what he's doing and can reach the challenge

you're putting in front of them. And you have to supplement that with video evidence. You have to support that with, you know, maybe the video prescowl, maybe practice, you know, or meetings. But so really there's a lot that goes into it. but you can't lose the balance of it. Because as a coach, you know, I'm putting this demand on a player, but it's only as good and it only be as strong and successful

as he can answer the demand of the player he's lining up against. And I believe you have to take that into consideration when you're pushing your player. You can push a, you know, I can push Sammy Reinhart as an experienced player a little differently than I could push maybe a player without as much experience. I can push a guy with more size and strength in a different manner than I could push a guy with less sized and strength. You know, so you're always looking at that. With Casey, back to Casey, it was, you know, the more I was around him and the more I worked with him, the more, he's such a nice guy, like so many guys in hockey are and respectful. And he proved that.

And I wanted to move him past the point of being respectful and get him to the point where, you know, here's where you need to be respectful. when you're off the ice. But when the puck drops, don't worry about being respectful. Make sure that that competitive fire you have in you comes to the forefront because I see that competitive fire. But because he's so respectful

of veteran players and the organization itself and the national hockey league and being in the national hockey league, a lot of times these guys wait for their opportunity and they take a back seat along the process of moving up the lineup. And so you can, as a coach, you can speed that along by working with them in the areas I mentioned.

And really, you know, getting them to understand, you know, there's a couple of different scenarios here. One is when you're off the ice and, you know, it's okay to be respectful and loyal and those things. But when that puck drops, your competitive fighter has to come to the forefront. And that's the one thing that Casey did incredibly well. He became an instant leader because his intensity came to the forefront at a level that I don't think anybody saw. I think he would have saw it at the University of Minnesota or where he played his amateur hockey as he was a leader of those teams, but not here in Buffalo or not here in the NHL yet.

And to me, that's what we saw. And then obviously the skill, that pushed the skill that he has to impact situations at a much greater level. I love that. That's pretty amazing. Rasmus Deline was another guy that seemed to to find his way and and you know he's again these guys come in with so much pressure and so you don't you know it's they're dealing everyone's dealing with different levels of expectations and you know from the outside it looked like he he seemed to to find another gear or click a little bit what were you identifying in his game that you really wanted to focus on well i just felt you know um that it was time

him to breathe a little bit, you know, the pressure of our lack of success. And I also felt I could capitalize on the situation I was in as a head coach within that moment. And obviously, I'm replacing Ralph Kruger. And what people is, what is overlooked is a lot of times when you have a change like that is all the good that's in place that I could then take advantage of as a coach. And we weren't winning and we had lost and our confidence was down. Our players were, you know, anxious and confused.

But when Ralph was dismissed, he didn't leave behind, he left behind an awful lot of good and an awful solid foundation that I could use and the players could use. We could use to take the next step forward. So, you know, when you, when I think of Dahlene, I felt, you know, he's, he's committed. He was committed and he worked hard and he focused on, you know, some defensive concepts. And he was ready for the next thing. And so, you know, I use the term green light, you know, a lot of development or most of development is discretion. You know, when is the light green, you know?

Yeah. So you're almost in a, you know, from using that as an analogy, it's really the yellow light that you're, that you're, that you're, looking for. That's right. It is, you know, it's just, it's going to turn red pretty quick, but is, can you get through that intersection and a yellow right now and make this happen? And that's a discretion. So a lot of the development is that discretion.

Should I jump now? Can I think offense now or not? And I needed to allow him as, as I did the rest of the players in our team to develop their discretion. You know, the better players have better discretion. And I just didn't feel we were going to get better. And we needed to get better as a team. And obviously, here's a super talent in Rasmus Dahlin.

And I need him to be able to go on that ice and play with his own discretion. Because then we can work with it. If he was wrong and made the wrong decision, I told him, I'm not going to be, I'm not going to be upset with you. I'm not going to be mad at you at you at all. I want you to work on your discretion because your talent, You know, I don't have your talent. I can't talk about you what to do when.

You know, at some point, I can tell you what our system is and give you a foundation and run you through practice drills and all that. But at the end of the day, you know, the speed of the players and talent of the players you're playing against in the situation itself, you're going to have to make a read and react decision as all our guys are. So I really wanted to allow our players that opportunity to grow and develop and then to gain confidence. And he was, he kind of epitomized the whole group and our team in that respect. Don, we, we've talked for whatever, 10 or 15 minutes about you as a, you as a developmental coach. I mean, that's the, that's the rep you have for, for good reason. But does that, you're also trying to get, you're also trying to get a job.

You're, you're trying to get a head job now. Is that, do you ever have the impulse to say like, yes, I'm great. I'm good at developing guys, but I'm also out to win hockey games. Like I'm the right guy for that, for that too. How do you balance that that rep you have, that resume you have with, you know, kind of the other necessary elements to being a successful head coach? Yeah, well, first of all, I don't feel like I'm trying to get a job by any means. I think that takes you out of the moment in your ability to read and react and see situations.

but I've tried to make it abundantly clear that it's all about winning. You know, everything that I just mentioned is to get to the end result of winning. The situation, again, I speak of the situation I was in. And there were lots of good parts. Like I said, you know, Ralph left behind a real solid foundation to keep, you know, to keep working on. And from, we were able to do that. So we were able to build from, you know, a foundation that was there that was hard to see prior to. And that was a key to moving these guys and things forward.

I lost my train of thought a little bit here. So again, winning is the goal, is the objective. But I did feel we needed to get better. It was clear we weren't good enough. We could chase a win. We could start chasing analytics. and oh my God, we're terrible in this analytics, so let's go work on that. We just needed to get better.

We needed all our players to focus on and prove it, which is not a common thing in the NHL and not a common thing in the middle of the season in the NHL. But our players bought into it, and they actually all improved incrementally, which when you do that with 20 guys, you're moving your whole team up quite a bit. The execution level goes up quite a bit. So, you know, that was our focus with the objective of winning. That was why we were doing that. It was, I don't, I don't just want to win one game and be back right back where we're at and sweat this out again the next day.

I'll sacrifice a few losses to get over the hump. You know, and if you think about it, I always think about it this way. You know, you jump in a pool and the water's, you know, five feet high. well, if you're four foot 10, you're going to be jumping up and down just to breathe. But if you grow to five foot two, you're going to be above the water, no problem. You know, six foot, it's going to be easy for you. And that's kind of how you've got to look at your team. You know, as you get better and it's all relative to your competition, everything you do becomes

easier. All those analytics that you might chase, all of a sudden they clean up. And you're good in multiple categories. But if you start chasing one category and you start chasing one category and you at the sacrifice of development, you're probably going to stay below the water and be treading it just to survive. When you have an extended period like this as an interim and then you go into an off-season, I guess I'm sure there was some sort of interview process with Kevin Adams.

What did that look like? I mean, can you just be like, hey, I think you've been watching this for how many games? You know what were those conversations like postseason? We haven't had a lot of conversation postseason. Kevin, when I took the job and I've mentioned this publicly already, he had a plan to interview and take some time at the end of the year to take the whole year in. And it's been a, you know, it's been a whirlwind year for every GM coach and franchise and player, you know, under the circumstances that were this year. So no different here. just probably add on a little bit more than the average, I guess.

So, you know, while he's taking his time to kind of breathe and reflect on the season, I have not spoken with him in the last few days, probably three, four days ago. But, you know, again, good, simple, easy conversation because this is a process, as he mentioned to me before. I'm not going to question that process. You know, I'm grateful for the opportunity. I just had and even more grateful for all the experience I had, you know, to prepare for this opportunity, the decades of work as a coach. And I felt very comfortable in this opportunity, as I do moving forward with whatever happens. You know, I'm, I've been more reassured now

after going through this process of the last couple months that, you know, the work I put on, put in, you know, got me to that position, but I was able to do a decent job in it. So whatever, whatever the future holds, I'm open to it. I'm excited about it. And right now is the time to just kind of wait a little bit until we can all sort it out. And one of the time's right to move forward, we will either way. How much time over the past couple months have you spent wishing that you actually

got a chance to coach up, Jack? I know because he was out of the lineup by the time you took over. Well, anytime you have a talent like that, you are very intrigued as a coach, very excited as a coach. You know, when you're in the moment of the season and, you know, this season, we didn't have Jack Iko, we didn't have Linus L. Mark for stretch. You just can't, you just have to block it out as a coach. You can't, you can't go there in your mind.

You have to get excited about, you know, the guys right in front of you. And there was plenty for me to get excited about the guys in front of me. They were, they were amazing as far as their commitment, certainly their potential. And on many nights, just their actual performance was exciting. And they responded when we didn't have good games. You know, they made adjustments. They made adjustments in between periods that are exciting as a coach. When you can come in and lock them in between the period,

give your guys two or three adjustments and they can go out there and execute it. You know your team is capable and honest way to becoming more capable. And we did that a lot. You know, the nice thing for me, you always looking for barometers and how to measure progress and where you're at as a team, you know, in the divisional lineup the way it was, or schedule, you play back to back quite a bit. So, you know, we were able to present on the coaching side adjustments to our players after, you know, game one of a two-game series.

And it was remarkable the ability they had to make those adjustments and then find success with it in the second game, which is a real good indicator of their capacity, their immediate skill level and their capacity to internalize and execute at a rep. And that's what you have in a playoff series, a team that can adjust. quickest usually ends up on top in the series. I had somebody say, we were talking about Buffalo and the job he did, and it was positive conversation, but it was another coach, but he said, you know, you really almost can't assess Don Granato as the head coach of the Sabres

without having him coach Jack Eichel. Like, he's such a big part of the equation. Now, I know that's out of your control. That was not part of the, but do you, like, what would be your response to that? Like, it's an incomplete assessment without having the. face of the franchise as part of it, right? I think that's interesting. My response to that is, I mean, it's a fair comment.

We all deal with, you know, a situation like that hypothetical. You know, does, do they have this? Do they have it? Does, does coach have this experience? Does he not? I mean, those questions are fine and they're legitimate. We do it with the players coming in the league. You know, is this guy ready?

So, you know, I don't have any argument. and wouldn't get into an argument back of that. I'm with you. We haven't had Jack. I'm confident that, you know, I could, you know, help Jack play to his maximum. But the fact is,

I haven't coached him at this level. I had him at, you know, a different level, and I know him well. But I certainly believe in my ability to do it. But as far as answering back to that, there's no answer to this time.

I'm just trying to pick a fight. With you and you are. You're trying to pick it. No, that's not true. You are baiting me, crap. Oh, no. That's okay. I thought it was an interesting, you know, I really thought it was, it hadn't occurred, like, because you had coach Jack, right?

Like, it's not like this is somebody you're unfamiliar with, right? And you know him and the complexities that kind of go along with Jack. So I just thought it was an interesting thing. I don't feel like that. Everybody, you know, thinks about the, you mentioned complexities of Jack or complexity of somebody. I can assure you, and I use probably that same words that I can assure you during our exit interviews. that these guys just want to play hockey. Like they are completely different.

They're a kid on the pond when you can get them, you can get them into an environment where they're the happiest they can be in their life, just putting the skates on and playing. And there's ways to make that fun and to help that along. And for me, that's always been a big part of my coaching. The confusing part in that is people just assume you're not demanding. well, that is certainly not the case. I mean, this is a highly competitive environment.

I love competition. You know, I grew up with five other siblings. We beat the hell out of each other. And it was fun. You know, when I finished playing, I missed being sore. I literally missed being sore. And waking up the next morning, you know, having a tough time to get out of bed, you felt like you did something, you know.

So, you know, by no means, you know, should it be misunderstood? And when I say fun, you lose the competitive. fight and desire to win. And, you know, I know Jack, and I know he has that appetite. You know, the circumstances are such that he's been in an environment here for years that they haven't had success, and that can wear on, as it would anyone else, any one of us. But he puts those skates on, he's going to have a blast. I'm reading between the lines here.

Do you think we're over-round? Like when we people try to overanalyze Jack or we say he's a complex guy or whatever, do you think there's over analysis there where it's like just put this guy in a positive environment and he's going to thrive? Well, I will say this. It's not a good story if you don't overanalyze it. Yeah, that's, I mean, I made a career. Right?

It would just be boring. That's our job. That's how I do. And it's appropriate. It's why is it not appropriate? When people are talking about our sport and hockey and sabers, that's good. Yeah. That's great.

You know, there's, there's passion there. And these are all unknowns as well. And I love the fact of that walking into the unknowns. Like we've said, you know, how will Jack be or would Jack be, you know, with myself as a coach? It's unknown. I thrive on that. I think that's exciting, you know. But, but yeah, it's, you know, if we don't have drama, what are we going to report?

Now, on the coaching side, I will tell you as an objective, and I told it to our players when I, the very first meeting I had with our players when I took the job was stop with the drama. Enough of the drama. And the drama is for everybody else outside this room. And it's appropriate. That's why we flip on the TV. But we don't flip on the TV. We go out on the ice to play.

So we don't need drama. And when you walk in the building, I won't tolerate drama. We have to have a business approach. and we will. So, you know, we're seeing a lot of drama, which is very natural off the ice. You know, we want to bring in the last eight years of drama. And I had a conversation with one of the guys, and I talked about, you know, my experience in Chicago for two years with Joel. And they just won three cups.

And I never saw anybody wear a Stanley Cup ring. And they just won three cups. I never heard anybody's talk about the Stanley Cup championship and the runs they were on and the parades they had. they were just focused on the next game and winning the next game. So in two years, I was there nobody, there was no sign that they had won three cups. Nobody was talking about. But I come into Buffalo and everybody wants to talk about losing for the last eight or nine years every day. They want to drag it back in.

As soon as the post game interview comes, they want to drag it back in. It doesn't make any sense. There I am in Chicago and it's never dragged into an interview and dragged around to bring you down or bring you up and inflate you. falsely. But yet here, you know, that's been, you know, more common than not to allow this to drag you down, to bring it in as a wait. And, you know, I think our guys have done a real good job. But I do, I do believe you see that when they go to the podium and they, their energy, you know, that's a tough spot for your older players to go in because, you know, the questions are the questions. And they circle, they surround what I just mentioned. But,

you have to let the pass go. Well, I mean, it's a tough spot for you, too, though, because you're coming in as a coach into the situation where it's eight years of baggage or 10 years of baggage. I mean, that's something for you to consider on some level, isn't it? When you think about the last decade for that team and just the overall vibe of the fan base and what's going on with the city, I mean, like, how do you balance that baggage with the job that you yourself have at hand, not just the guys at the post, but knowing that this is a tough, complex situation.

Well, you have to understand the complexities of it and the effects of it. So there's clearly effects. I just mentioned it. When they walk in front of a podium, you can see the body language. And then I see them in the locker room. It's totally different. So, but that doesn't mean they're confident yet or comfortable yet, you know, walking back out, you know. And, you know, I guess it, you know, when you, when you mentioned this, Sean,

failure to many is a fuel. And then failure to others, it becomes like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Here we go again. Here we go again. And what I've, you know, witnessed, it's too often been a self-fulfilling prophecy. Here we go again.

And if you watch, like, say, we talk about Casey Middlestad. His failure, there's no fear. It's fuel. His belief is still strong. You know, and I do, I do, I mean, I mentioned Casey and even some of the younger guys. They haven't been here. So they're not going to have that reference, you know, when there's a mistake made.

It's not here we go again. You know, for a guy that had been through some of this more, the chances are that they could feel that immediately. So, you know, that was a big part of what I wanted to, you know, create a different environment. environment, a different outlook. But again, you have to respect. I don't say this with any disrespect for the, you know, agony and pain. And, you know, because, you know, a lot of guys battled a hard in a long time through the last, and they just four or five, whatever years, and they just haven't been rewarded for it.

But that doesn't mean they're not closer to getting, you know, as I said, that water level, you know, their head above water. You don't know how close you are to getting your head above water until you actually get above it. So, you know, and it's, it's, that's the situation, I believe that those, you know, that some guys would be in, would be in naturally. But there are things you can do and we have done and we will continue to do to, to get them to let go of the past, just as a Stanley Cup champion has to let go of the past. It has a lot to do with you can be happy in our business. It's hard to show it because people will misinterpret it, but you can never be content. So a lot of people just act miserable.

So they don't give off the perception that they're actually happy because people will think, oh, if they're happy, you're content. Well, no, there's two totally different things. I'm completely not content, but I'm also comfortable enough to tell you, yeah, I'm happy about life and about things and about the opportunity. But no, I'm not content. You want me to just act mad? It's like, it's like watching a coach throw a water bottle and throw a stick. I could go behind the bench and throw water bottles, throw sticks, yell at refraiseries, and everybody think, oh, my God, is that guy intense? Was that really intensity? No, that's

throwing water bottles and sticks. Was there a point in your career that you realized you had to tamp down the happiness factor? Because you did say that that was something you have to hide. Were you 19 and being like, I'm smiling a little bit too much. Well, it's, and unfortunately in the business we're in, you know, competitive business, that could be misinterpreted. Yeah, for sure. And again, that's what you see.

So the player's in a tough spot there. You know, the player has to show that he's grumpy so people realize he's not content. And then you do that over and over and year in and year out and interview in and interview out. And sometimes you lose yourself and you lose the feel and the perspective on things. And it can, it'll bleed into your game. So, you know, it's just the same. psychology of it, it's, uh, it's really important. And, you know, again, it's, um, you know,

you can, I mean, you don't have to be giggly to be happy. Um, so that's the other component. You know, we don't have to walk in with balloons and streamers, you know, right. Um, but, uh, but it's said, it's, it's a respect for, um, you know, respect for for everybody that's passionate about the organization you work for. You know, again, it's respect for them. You don't want to show that you're, you know, you're happy about anything, but really it's content. You know, you're going to go to work, you're going to go home that night,

and you are not going to sleep because you've got to fix it. And you're going to come to work early and commit because this has to be fixed because, you know, you feel that obligation and that responsibility with the position you hold. And that's always easy to do. It's always been easy for me to do as a coach to really feel that sense of responsibility to the organization and fan base. I feel like we've already blown past how much we asked you to be on this show, how long we were going to have you.

But before we wrap up, I do want to ask you about Austin Matthews. And I love my favorite conversations, especially back in the day, I think one of my first conversations with you was about Austin, this kid coming into the program and just blowing everybody away. Do you have a go-to Austin Matthews story that just captures the kind of kid he was or the talent level he was? Because even what he's done this year in getting better is it just shows that drive to succeed and get better is unbelievable. It's unbelievable. And, you know, there were a lot of people that asked me if the Toronto market, you know, was too much for Austin.

And I can remember very simple. I said, absolutely not. You know, it, he, the Toronto markets, a challenging market and high demand market, but he can go on the ice and impose his will on the opposition. And he could do that immediately upon entry in the NHL. So if he couldn't do that and then you come off and you haven't scored a goal in three games and you're under the scrutiny and pressure of that marketplace, you could lose your confidence.

but if he didn't score a goal in multiple games, he would never fear that, oh, my God, I'm not going to score again. He knows that he can impose his will on his opponents. And he knew that as soon as he entered the league. Like, he might not have known it, but he figured it out right away. I should say, I knew that that would be the case for him because, you know, he's, I watched it every day for two years, you know, the talent that he has and the natural ability he has as an athlete and a hockey player all in one was, you know, amazing to watch.

And one, I remember tapping our assistant coach or one of my assistants on the shoulder in the middle of the game. At some point in the first year, we had him. And every time Austin would touch the puck, the entire bench unbeknownst to themselves, all the players on the bench, would nudge to the edge of their seat and lean over the boards to watch once he touched the puck. and then when he'd give up the puck, make a pass, they'd sit back. And he picked the puck up again and they'd lean forward. And it was the whole group. And so I would tap my assistant, we'd get a laugh out of it because we'd watch that all the time.

And that's when you know, those are some of the subtleties and signals that you know this is a generational talent, is the term that everybody likes to use. He is an absolute generational talent. He is that. He is that. We were debating. How much did you have Adam Fox? He's been such a... I did not have Adam. Adam was there. So Dan and Cole did an incredible job.

John Gruden is coaching with the Islanders. He was there. Those two guys had him. I wasn't sure of you. Yeah. And he was spectacular. You know, Adam had that confidence and swagger as a young kid that didn't exceed his ability. Sometimes those kids have a swagger that exceeds their ability, and that gets them in trouble. I know people like that. Upon entry in the NHL, it can get them in trouble. Yeah.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. But that was one thing that, you know, upon observation, you know, you're at the national team program, and there's two birth years at the same time. You know, a U-17, a U-18, Adam was on the even birth years. I was coaching the odd birth years, and you get to watch those kids. You see them every day. the hallways, in the locker rooms, and, you know, they're integrated pretty good. So you get to enjoy those kids in their development as well. You just don't coach the other birth here.

And he was one that was fun to watch. Awesome. Well, Donnie, thanks for doing this. This is a blast. This is great. You're welcome. And best of luck in the process. I know kind of the uncertainty is not easy.

And so, you know, I hope you're able to manage it, enjoy it. and get through it. Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah. Thanks, Sean. You coach me to go clean up my bedroom. I'm going to get that done now.

Hey, but don't leave too far out of your comfort zone, Sean. You've got to go to sleep tonight. You got to. I'm telling you. I was taking notes the entire time. I'm ready. Just right on the cusp of your comfort zone, not too much further because you're going to be,

it might revert right back to it. You might be frustrated. That's right. you got to be who you are Sean Exactly Exactly Thanks guys Send us a picture please

Thanks to Don Granato for joining the podcast That was fun Sean I just like how immediately I feel like you guys are best friends now So that's if nothing else Came out of that interview Hopefully

Hopefully it leads to great things In Don Granado's career But at the very least You've made a friend Maybe if he gets one of his head jobs He can he can bring me on as, you know, I don't know, assistant to the video assistant.

Quality control. Yeah, whatever. Just one of those, one of those fake jobs. So do us both a favor. You won't have to deal with me anymore. I don't have to humiliate myself by having an unmade bed on screen with an NHL coach. Yeah. I know it feels like everything always goes back to the Toronto Maple Leafs just in general. But man, my big takeaway from the last couple of days, top five playoff, moment. Austin Matthews, grinning like a psychopath again, while he's getting absolutely manhandled by, by Shea Weber. This is, you know, you see stuff and you say that's going to end up on the Stanley Cup final montage, whether it's on Sportsnet or whether it's stuff we see,

whether it's stuff we see on NBC sports, that's going to stick around a while. Austin Matthews for the second time in that series, getting absolutely punished behind the net by the Montreal Canadians and in grinning like Jack Nicholson or whatever it is. I'm a big fan. I'm a big fan of Austin Matthews remembering periodically that he's an absolute tank and seeing him lay the body and all that sort of stuff. So yeah, I saw that, I saw that during a break in Penn Islanders last night and it made my night. So I'll take a little bit more of that. It's great. It reminds me of like, I, this is a, you know, I'm sure Don Granot can relate to this. I grew up at my friend's backyard, my whole life, there's five boys. And it was the littlest brothers or the two little's brothers. If you picked on them, that was a response. Like, they would get beat up and thrown around and they just grinned and laughed. And you're like, oh, these, there's something, there's a screw loose almost. Like, it's, it's more intimidating than you throwing your body around. Like, if you get manhandled and then then you, you're, you. you laugh? Like, that's, that's a glimpse into Austin Matthew's psyche. Yeah, it, it also helps when the guy, when the guy laughing is, you know, six, three and in, in 225. And, oh, by the way, the best, the best goal score on Earth. So, yeah, man, he's, I don't, I don't, I don't want to, that's, that series is still close. They drop that first game. But, man, that's a, that's a, that's complete package stuff from, from Matthews so far.

So good. I would love a long Austin Matthews runs just to have those. Like he's so much fun. Like if we can't have Connor McDavid, give us Austin Matthews for a while. That would be fantastic. I just want to say one thing before we wrap up, Sean, since we last recorded, the Detroit Red Wings signed Jeff Blaschell to an extension. And I know there was a lot of hand ringing from Red Wings fans.

I'm Detroit. So maybe I'm just hearing it closer. People outside the hockey world or outside of Detroit probably this news wasn't making huge waves. This, I wanted to take 30 seconds in defense of Jeff Blasheel because I get, I get the notion, if you're a Red Wings fan and you say, this guy's like the third longest tenured coach, or whatever it is, he's been doing it a while, they're not good, his record isn't particularly good, but, you know, what are you bringing him back for?

I think the job that he's done under these circumstances is almost impossible. And here's what I'm asking my coach in this scenario. are the young players getting better and are they competing every night? Like are these games not blowouts? And there was a moment where they, it was last year where they started getting blown out and you're like,

this is not a great environment for the young players. It was a, they're competing. And the young players are getting better. And they're developing not just the high end guys. They're developing the, you know, Tyler Bertusies and the Heronics and all these guys. Like, the young players are getting better and they're going to bring some more in next year with Mordside.

They've created an environment in a losing scenario where the players compete. I think that's pretty remarkable. And I know Red Wings fans probably don't want to hear of this, but I liked it. And the one thing, it's Steve Eisenman making calling the shots there. And Steve still has so much credibility with Red Wings fans. I saw a lot of like, don't like it, but I guess Steve Eisenman knows what he's doing.

And I think in this, you have to, like, Steve Eisenman is almost ruthless. and Ruth is not the right word. But he is in his decision making. You know what I mean? Totally. He's going to make the right call here from what he sees. And that team was, that roster was not good. And that team battled.

And won probably more games than they should have. And I thought, I thought Blaschel deserved it. So that's, they're only six, they had the six least points in the league. I mean, that's, that's crazy. I know there, I know there's a lot of bad. There's a lot of bad teams out there, but sheesh. Yes, that was a bottom bear, but, you know, that roster should have finished last. So to me, if you're assessing coaches, how much better do they do than what you're handing them?

And whether that's, if you're giving them a borderline playoff team and they win the division, or if you give them a last place team and they finish six last, like that, I don't know. No, I'm, I'm with you. I'm with you. I think it makes sense because you're going to, he might be a bridge coach anyway. You're talking about three. That's right. We're talking about three or four years until they're legitimately there again.

So, yeah, why not? He's gotten them this far. I feel bad if they like, you know, two years from now, then they cut bait and then they're good again. And then some guy comes in and poor Jeff Blashill has to go. Kind of feels like that's where we're headed, huh? We'll see. All right. Before we wrap up, I just wanted to plug Cam Neely, joined Scott Burnside and Fierre's two-man Advantage edition of the Athletic Hockey Show.

So give that a listen. Make sure you're listening to Ian Mendez, Sean McIndoo on the Athletic Hockey shows on Thursdays, and Haley on Monday. I love what we're doing here with this podcast. I'm glad everybody seems to be enjoying it. It's so much fun. If you're not subscribing,

make sure you subscribe on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening to the Athletic. And also, we like feedback. I love checking out the comments on the athletic app. So go. And if you have thoughts on our show, maybe even some guest suggestions, as long as they're American for the Tuesday show, of course.

Drop them in there. We've had to say no to some potential Canadian guests. They can go on Scott and Pierre show anytime, I'm sure. So make sure you can check out the comment section on the app. And if you're not subscribed to The Athletic, of course I know you are. But if you're not, go to theathletic.com slash hockey show. And you can get a subscription for just $3.99 per month. Sean, that was fun. I want to thank Don Granato for joining the podcast again. That was great.

And Sean, thank you for your time. And thank you for cleaning your room. Yeah. And again, and again, Don, if you're filling out of staff, you have my contact information. I'm ready to take whatever job you're willing to offer me.