The Athletic Hockey Show - Don Waddell on his Caniacs, Tocchet to interview with Rangers and Seattle and Kucherov and the Bolts cap circumvention

Episode Date: May 19, 2021

On the Two Man Advantage edition of the Athletic Hockey Show, Scott and Pierre discuss the first round of the playoffs, including great series between Vegas and Minnesota and Washington and Boston. The guys address the salary cap circumvention allegations that the Tampa Bay Lightning have endured during there first two games of the playoffs vs cross state rivals from South Florida.The guys also address Jeff Blashill's contract extension with Detroit, and the coaching vacancies in the NHL, with Gerard Gallant and Rick Tocchet both interviewing for the head coaching openings in Manhattan and Seattle.Don Waddell, the President and General Manager of the Carolina Hurricanes joins the show to discuss his teams first playoff game, a convincing win over Nashville, his relationship with owner Tom Dundon and he provides an update on the contract negotiations with head coach Rod Brind'Amour.As always, Burnside and Lebrun wrap the podcast with the popular 'Ask the Dorks' segment, taking questions on Zach Parise, Shea Weber, and veteran players still chasing their first Stanley Cup. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey, everybody, Scott Burnside, back for another edition of Two-Man Advantage, the podcast, part of the Athletic Hockey Show Network. I'd like to say the vast network of podcasts at the Athletic, Pierre LeBron. As we talked about last week, we're now in it. The playoffs are started, and even the North Division, finally going to catch up starting this evening with Edmonton, Winnipeg. And then, of course, tomorrow on Thursday, Montreal, Toronto, the much anticipated first round series. How have you felt in general about watching the games as they've unfold? Because, of course, all the games so far have been American-based teams. And all of those teams have fans in some numbers.

And we're going to hear from Don Waddell, Carolina Hurricanes GM, who at the very last minute helped to get 12,000 fans in PNC Arena for game one of Carolina in Nashville. What's it been like for you to watch the first few games, pal? Well, it's interesting. The first game in each of the series we've seen so far was so hectic like we've seen over the last several years where it's like everyone's trying to take each other's head off and it's just unbelievable.

And then game two, I thought last night, a lot of the second games were like, okay, let's be serious. We know we can't play that way the entire series or else none of us are going to survive. So it calmed down. It was still terrific, but I think it has to, right? I mean, game one of Florida, Tampa was unsustainable.

in terms of what might have happened to each roster had they played an entire series that way. So that calmed down a bit. You know, I thought same for, you know, I thought Minnesota, Vegas was all about the hockey as well-lost. Nineve-Boy, Vegas needed that one. That's going to be a really good series. But it is weird when one division hasn't taken part yet. So I think that's hurt the overall feeling of the start of the playoffs. Because usually when you have all 16 teams playing within the first 48 hours, you really feel it, right?

Yeah, for sure. And so we're missing out on that this year. And I also can't help but think that because, you know, I for years have said the Stanley Cup should be awarded by May 31st and a normal season. And I'm going to hit that drum until the day I die. But it weighs on me that this is going into July. Like I think the interest is going to wait over time here. I think the first round is going to be awesome.

I think a lot of the second round. But I think a lot of out-of-market fans whose teams are out. I don't think there'll be as much. I should check in on this. We're down the four teams. I don't think that's going to be the case as much this year because of summer hockey. And we saw the ratings last year for the bubble. They were pretty low, right?

Yeah. Yeah. So that's too bad. But that's, you know, that's the pandemic. That's no one's fault. But, you know, hopefully if there's some teams with huge followings that make it to the final four, that will help salvage it. Well, and I mean, the one thing that we're guaranteed,

in which we haven't been guaranteed, of course, any other year, that there will be a Canadian team in the final four. So, you know, that will mitigate it at some, on some level, I think. What do you think it will be like to watch? Do you think it will change, you know, again, you know, I think of watching Carolina and Nashville in game one and the two games in Florida where they had, I think there were 9,000. You could really feel those fans in South Florida, yeah. Oh, my gosh.

And, you know, even Vegas last night, and I can't, I know that you've talked to Bill Foley. And everyone's trending towards numbers. I was curious to see, though, that I see Montreal is hoping to have, and I don't have in front of me. It's a small number, what? It'll be about 2,500 because it's 12 percent. But not until game six if the series goes that far. Right. But I wonder what 2,500 will sound like acoustically.

That is a huge ring, the bell center. Yeah. So, but, you know, obviously they don't put them near the players bench, but it's better than nothing. and be the first fans in the North Division. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, that's hope there is a game six for no other reason. All right.

I want to, we are going to touch on Florida, Tampa, because there's a lot of stuff going on, and I thought you wrote about it very eloquently. And I do want to touch on it because it's an important issue, I think. But I want to start with Minnesota, Vegas and how, you know, again, it's the, you got to stay up late, right? You got to be there. But, oh, my gosh, those first two games, and even though there hasn't been a ton of scoring. How good was Mark Andre Fleury last night? Because that game is over, I was looking at, you know, at one point in the second period, I think Minnesota had basically double the shots that

Vegas had. And Mark Andre Fleury was unbelievable. And he kept Vegas in that game and allowed them to come back and you alluded to it. But absolutely had doing that game. Can't go back to Minnesota down 02 if you're Vegas. I don't think. What did you make of the series? so far. And I think we knew Minnesota was going to be a challenge, right? They played this way and they played Vegas very tough all year during the regular season. But man, to me,

that's, it's so compelling to watch. Yeah, it really is. And Minnesota just has Vegas's number as far as making things difficult on them. And this series feels like a toss-up, which is incredible when you consider how many people have picked

Vegas to win the cup and how deep Vegas is. But Minnesota's in their mind a bit and you can see it as the play evolves in these two games so a huge win though that could change everything with that victory and you know the

Marchesos scoring 18 seconds right after a dumb but two I mean here's Minnesota stealing game one and then opening the scoring right and you're like oh oh but then Vegas getting that quick goal boy it was out are we going to look back in the series and say that was a huge moment but you know

The other thing I can't help think about is Kareel Caprisoff, the amazing, talented rookie for Minnesota. You know, hasn't registered a point yet. And I always think about how skilled rookies when they get their first NHL playoff experience. And obviously, he's at KHL experience, but this is the NHL playoffs. And I'm sure he's wondering like a lot of people, wait a minute, they stop calling the penalties when the playoffs start, which affects a player like him more than any other almost. but it's part of the learning curve for young skilled players when the playoffs come, right? That things are different. You know, I think about how the Leafs have learned so much, I think,

from all their first round playoff exits over the last few years and how I think Matthews and Marner are more ready for this than ever before because it's a different game. And, you know, I saw a lot of people on Twitter complaining last night, you know, how come they're not calling penalties? I think we have to stop. Like, if you haven't accepted by now that it's going to be the, in the playoffs, then it is what it is.

I'm not saying you should like it. I wish they call it rulebook as well, but we know what's coming every year. And I think the teams that plan for that are the ones that win championships, you know, Tampa, going out and getting Coleman and Gujar a year ago, the Leafs going out and, you know, getting Thornton and Bogosian and Simmons. What do you think Kyle Dubas had in mind? I mean, you know, so the reality is it's a different game in the playoffs. There are going to be fewer penalties.

There's going to be more obstruction allowed. So I hope for Caprisoff that it's a quick learning curve, and he puts his dent in the series before it's over. Yeah, interesting. Okay, so the other, the series that is, you know, in the wacky meter is near the red zone, is that Boston-Washington series. And it started literally within the first, I guess, 12 or 13 minutes,

whatever it was when Vitec Vanichek left game one. with an injury and Craig Anderson, the forgotten netminder. It was great to watch Craig Anderson come in, though, because the last time we played in the playoffs, double overtime, game seven against the Pittsburgh Penguins back when Ottawa was a playoff team. And, you know, I think Craig Anderson has acquitted himself very well. Two games, both going to overtime. Caps obviously winning game one in Boston, tying the series now headed back to Boston,

but now Lars Eller out for the Capitals. We still are not exactly clear on what will happen with Vgeny Kruznetsov. He started to skate again. He's out of the COVID-19 protocols. What about Elias M.S. Sonsoff, both of whom were disciplined by the team for tardiness and I assume other stuff. And man, and now that really, you know, like. What do you do?

I know, it's crazy. And I mean, you know, I don't want to, you know, not stress the fact that, you know, None of this is official, but we believe that whose nets off actually tested positive. So we wish him to best in his recovery. But it seems like he's skating, right? But at the root of all this is that him and Samsonoff are obviously, you know, broke team protocols in some way, right? I mean, that's why they were disciplined. Correct.

Now it hurts their team. You know, so hopefully we see those guys back soon here. But yeah, that's a big moment. And you know the bruns had that in them. And they had it just in time because Washington was that close being up to nothing. But I think that one's going seven. It smells like it. It's, to me, that's been, and you talk about physicality.

Now it did drop off a little bit in game two, but boy, two big heavy teams. And, you know, you just wonder how the caps will do. You know, we often talk about the playoffs as being a war of attrition and already, you know, the caps are up against it. So it'll be interesting to see what Peter Laviolet does with his lineup. And if those guys become available and what happens, You know, when they come back and given all the, the backstory there, it's crazy. And you'll listen, Craig Anderson, you know.

Yeah, good for me. That's amazing. It's great. All right. So let's get. We've sort of been, those were sort of the appetizers. But you alluded to Florida, Tampa, epic, epic first game, the Tampa, Tampa coming back to win on a late goal point, right? On the breakaway.

On the breakaway. Yeah. And then the change, let's start with that because I was, I just love how Joel Quenvo is like, I'm coaching, I don't, I'm going to do stuff the way I want to do it. And so Sergey Bob Rossi, who started game one and was okay. And now Chris, Drieger in game two gave up two early goals and the Panthers could never quite get back in it. And so they had to tamp it down 02. What did you make in the goaltending change before we get to the other stuff? Man, oh man, 10 million a year, Sergei Brabowski.

Oh, that deal just never aged well from the second day after they did that in July. And even though it made sense, but I think that I just don't think you're going to see a goal to get paid that ever again. But that's crazy. And, you know, when you think of the bigger picture and less above the series for a second.

Yeah. Spencer Knight there and the next few years, I mean, what does Florida do with Sergey Bobowski? I mean, it's fascinating. And really, you're not faced with that decision until Spencer Knight needs to get paid, I guess. But hoia, y'i, y'i. That is fascinating stuff. Well, and Dreyers are supposed to be UFA?

Well, he's obviously gone. I mean, you know, unless you do something somehow miraculously with Bavaroski this offseason, but in a flat gap world, good luck. I mean, I don't know what that is. Yeah, no, I agree. So you're losing, you're losing D'Eager for sure. And good for him. continues to add to his case in free agency. Yeah.

You know, he continued to add to his case to Ron Francis, I wonder. Who knows? Oh, yes. I keep thinking that that would be, that would be a great spot. I want to, and we're going to talk some Seattle in a few minutes before we take a break

and talk to Don Waddell. But I thought, you wrote a piece because it, you know, I mean, you knew this was coming, right? I mean,

as the playoffs are approaching and, you know that Kuturov, Nikita Kutrov, and the Steven Stamcoast, who had been in, injured, had been on LTIR during the regular season when the salary cap is in place. And the moment that the salary cap, when the playoffs begin, the salary cap goes away. And so you see players brought up from the HL and, you know, this happens every year.

But what doesn't happen every year is that a former Hart Trophy winner, and one of the best players on the planet, steps back into the playoff lineup for his first game of the season. And Kutrov was unbelievable. I thought, you know, a little bit more, there was a different game in game two, so he wasn't quite as dominant, but he was good. He made a lot of clever plays, yeah. Oh, yeah. It's amazing that they went the whole year without this guy. Yeah, I wrote the piece because I felt from the national perspective.

I mean, Joe Smith is an excellent work detailing what's going on with that. But, you know, I think that fans from other markets are like, oh, well, you covered the lightning, you know, so, which is unfair to Joe was a total pro. But I did feel that I had to jump in from a national perspective. and, you know, have the people have Bill Daly say for the last time we looked into this, you know. Yeah. And I asked Bill Zito if he, you know, felt like the Panthers were being cheated. And believe me, he was earnest in his response. He didn't just say that for show.

Like the Panthers are like, no, man, it is, but it is. That's the system. And I thought Stan Bowman's take on it was so fascinating because he lived through all this controversy with Patrick Kane in 2015. So I'm glad without all the peace turned out. I knew what was going to happen in terms of reaction. Well, you mean how everyone agreed with everything that was said and it was a good rational discussion? Oh, man. This is a real sensitive hot button topic, but that's what we get paid for.

So there's really nothing else to be said now. I mean, Dan Milstein, the agent for Kuturov, who not only thought after talking the doctors that Kutrov wouldn't be available until early June, but actually kind of astonishing. I quoted him saying he's worried that Kutrov came back too early in a way. Yeah. So now, again, there are people around the league that the Kuturov could have come back a month ago. Are they wrong? I don't know.

I mean, obviously the team denies that. Yeah. There were certainly some front office executives that I texted with that are uncomfortable, the optics of this. And one GM in particular who wants, again, to bring this up among the GMs, not. so much just this incident, but you know, the Leafs are under the microscope for the way they massage the trade deadline in LTI. And, you know, the Leafs come up just as often as Tampa does in my conversations with other teams. And I think the point is, you know, it's not just about Tampa and Kutrov for some other teams, but is the system working at its best right now? And really,

that's up to Bill Daly and Gary Bettman. But, you know, when you look at the total amount of now on the ice for both Toronto and Tampa it's way above the cap. But they use the system, right? I mean, I think what the Leafs did was super clever. The deadline with Riley Nash and everything else. But again, is it the spirit of the CBA,

you know, blah, blah, blah. So there will be more conversations about all this as time moves on. I don't know what the solutions are. I mean, I know a lot of fans have reached out to me and said, well, why is there no salary cap in the playoffs? It's a good question. and I asked Bill Daley that question, although I hampered the answer by putting in my own answer

when I asked him, so I should have done that. That was a rookie mistake. But I said, is it as simple as the fact that the players don't get paid in the playoffs, right? Their loss paycheck is in the last week of the regular season. And he said that's one of many reasons, interestingly. Right. So certainly if there was a salary cap in the playoffs, then you can imagine what a different ballgame that would be. but, you know, listen, within the context of the way the system is now, I, at the end of the day,

I think you have to just, everyone who has a conspiracy theory on this has to let it go, man. Yeah. It is what it is. I mean, Tapa would have much preferred to have Kucharov in their lineup this year. As Stan Bowman mentioned, it is a really thoughtful answer to me. It costs them homicest advantage potentially that they didn't have their best player. Yeah. Yeah, no, that's true.

It doesn't look like it's going to hurt them against Florida. but who knows if they play Carolina next if it does right yeah no that's a good point it yeah it is it to me it's it's it's it's it's the optics right just yeah and you mentioned it just yeah just it just doesn't look good and but but as to me it's within the maybe it doesn't matter what it looks like as long as the the people within the machinery as long as the teams you know if there's a way to you know to you know to tinker with it okay have that discussion but yeah yeah like i and again i thought bill Rosito's comments were really telling because if he would not have spoken to you, if he felt

differently, your conversation with him, either you wouldn't have it or he, because he wouldn't say that if he didn't believe it. Totally. And that's the kind of guy he is too. Exactly. Yeah. No, he would have said, I'm not touching that. And that's fine.

Right. But he's like, no, I think he was actually surprised. This was a, I mean, it's not something they're talking about with the Panthers. No. Good. All right. We're going to move on to a couple of other talks. before we chat with Don Waddell.

Interesting decision out of Detroit with Steve Eiserman confirming that Jeff Blasheel will return as head coach of the Red Wings. I was happy to see that. You know what? Yeah. Dan Bilesma is not going to return as part of that coaching staff. It would be interesting to see if a door open somewhere else for Dan Bilesman, Stanley Cup winning coach in Pittsburgh, of course. But I too was pleased that Jeff Blasheel will get another chance. I thought the way Detroit played down the stretch really showed some improvement and showed a team that, like, I think is trending the right way.

I don't know how close they are, but I thought the way they played was encouraging, especially given where they were at a year ago. So were you surprised by it or did you sort of anticipate this might have been the trend? It's sort of neither. I touched on this a month ago when I tried to look at all the coaching situations. And what I said for Detroit and Boschel is that I had no feel for it. I certainly could make the case that I feel like the wings who have this massive organic rebuild going, have shown good signs under Blaschell and that he deserves to be brought back. But I could also make the argument if Steve Eisenman had opted to go to that route,

that it's time for a new voice that Blachio has been there for a bit and that the rebuild is going to go to the next level. It really was a 50-50 proposition for me as far as defending the decision. But I think what's key in the decision is the term of the extension two years. Because I think that's the only way that Blaschill can stick around is by agreeing to such a short extension. Because that really gives, I think, Steve Isamon, the option after two more years to say, okay, where are we at in this rebuild? Right. And then it may be that Blaschill comes back yet again. But that may also be the point where he says, you know, you've brought this program along really well, but now it's time for the, you know, so on and so on.

Who knows? But I think getting Blasheld to do two years as opposed to the normal three to four year extensions that we see for coaches, that was probably lost in the news because that's probably the most important part of it. Yeah, no, I agree. And I think it's going to be fascinating just to see, you know, there are a couple of teams like that, right? Like I thought Ottawa and I thought DJ Smith in his second year really, again, a team that you can see sort of the direction they're heading. And so, okay, there's, you know, you see progress. from Detroit, you see progress from Ottawa. It'll be interesting to see, you know, the California teams, all of whom missed now

two years in a row in the playoffs. But to me, that's one of the fascinating parts when we get back to normal next fall. You know, knock on wood. You know, back to normal, do we start to see now a little bit more of, you know, those teams really actually trending forward in an 182 game schedule. What's interesting is all three, what we had Doug Wilson on our podcast last week, so we don't have to speculate. I mean, he talked about going out and using his cap space

and making a few tangible moves, right? Yep. Including in goal, which I thought was interesting. Rob Blake and his season-ending media veil with the King's media and we read more about it with Lisa Dillman, but he's not making any bones about it, right? The Kings are going to be aggressive and one of the reasons why we've listed L.A.

as one of the teams to watch on Jack Eichol, but it could be all kinds of other things. So L.A. really wants to act. I mean, their rebuild looks pretty, good. I mean, they've got a lot of talent both already arrived and more coming, but they want to add to it. And I think they want to fast forward the finish line. And then Anaheim, I think Bob Murray for sure wants to, he's got cap space and he's going to be active. So it's interesting that I think all three California teams, even though they're going at it a little differently. Like I think LA's the true organic rebuild. I think Anaheim's done a bit of both. And then San Jose is trying to transition and a reset. So different paths. But all three are trying to get better at the same time, which might make things pretty interesting if all three are successful.

And bring us back to, of course, the great years that we've had out there when all three were competitive at the same time. Those are great years. Yeah, good point. All right. One last topic before we take a break and chat with Don Waddell, GM and president of the Carolina Hurricanes. Interesting discussion. And you touch on it early with the New York Rangers and the possible fit with Gerard Gallant as has Chris Jury's first coaching hire as the new GM president of the New York Rangers. But also this week now and Gerard Galant chatting before heading off to the worlds where he will coach team Canada.

But Rick Tockett's name comes up in not just with the Rangers, but also with Seattle, which I think is interesting now. And I wonder whether you feel, you know, as we, you know, obviously the teams that aren't in the playoffs, we know that, and the soon teams will be eliminated, whether you feel that we'll see an acceleration in terms of what Seattle might want to do in terms of hiring a first coach there. And because there is, there are some openings, right? I mean, Buffalo has yet to decide what they're going to do, Columbus.

So do you think we're, you know, that Ron Francis is like, okay, let's, we're going to swing into gear here? Or what do you make of all that? Yeah, I mean, I think Ron Francis will, want to talk to four or five candidates, be methodical about it. Zero surprise. Rick Tockets, one of them. I kind of speculated that again in that piece a month ago that that might be a

possibility because, of course, they know each other, right? They played together in Pittsburgh and not only teammates, but I think linemates, right, on those great Pittsburgh teams. So that was always going to make sense. It doesn't necessarily mean that he ends up the guy. I don't have a good feel for that yet. but knowing the way Ron Francis goes about things very methodical. So, you know, and I think certainly as I tweeted over the weekend,

Galance interview with the Rangers left a really positive impression on the Rangers. So on Chris Jury. So we'll see whether that ultimately means he gets to call back after the World Championships. But yeah, so some interesting things. You know, Arizona's, I think, wants to go. with the up-and-comer. That seems to be their rude. And I think they're going to want to talk to as many as 10 different people.

They're going to be really, I think Bill Armstrong is going to be really taking his time with this first ever coaching hire as a first-time GM. Yeah, so interesting off-season. And we'll see what happens, obviously, with some teams that lose in the first round. Yeah, exactly. And it's a crazy time in the coaching world, you know, as I wrote, entering next season as of now. Now some of that, I think, will change to this off-stop. season. But as of now, entering next season, there are 11 coaches entering the final year of their

deals. So it's quite a turbulent time in the coaching industry. And I think a lot of it's been affected by the pandemic in terms of a lot of guys not getting extensions yet and so on. Still waiting to see what happens with Travis Green. I mean, Vancouver, Darren dropped a bomb yesterday by saying the Sidene Twins are in talks with Kinnock's ownership about a potential role. Boy, I hope that happens. And I think all signs are pointing to it. I think those guys, iconic, smart, humble. I think, like, if you step back for a second and think how angry that Kinnuck's fan base has been this year, what is the number one thing you could do as ownership to try and appease that?

Well, bring in the twins. I think, yes, for sure. Yeah, but Travis Green needs a deal. And it's crazy to me that that hasn't happened yet. It should have. I know there's been talks, but they haven't got to the right number. I hope they do. I mean, if they don't sign Travis Green, that's a.

serious miss, man, in my books. Well, and, you know, talk about an organization that, you know, with the success in the playoffs in the bubble last summer and, and I think a real, like, I get that, you know, the whole Tofoli thing didn't unfold the way it probably should have from that, from Vancouver's point of view. But yeah, I agree with you. I think it's critical that Travis Green comes back and continues this work because I don't, I think this is a team that can bounce back.

Like I think this is a team that could find itself right back in in a playoff spot and be ready to, you know, to get back on track. But if you're changing coaches again and new system, like it just, it's all about consistency. And if you don't have it, it just, it's hard to, it's hard to compete with the big boys. That's just, that's a reality. All right. Good job by you on this first segment. I'm feeling, I'm feeling pumped. I'm excited to chat with Don Waddell.

Yeah. As promised, joined now by Don Waddell, President, GM, alternate governor, Jack of all trades of the Carolina Hurricanes, a finalist for the NHL's GM of the Year award back in 2018-19. Don, did I cover all the high points? Did I cover it? We got you lined up pretty good here. Yeah, I think you went overboard with it. But I appreciate being on the show with you guys and look forward to it. Yeah, well, our timing, Dawn, is impeccable because as you and Pierre and I are chatting,

your in between game one and game two of your opening round series Central Division against the National Predators. And I must admit, I was a bit surprised as the lead up to game one at PNC Arena, all of a sudden 12,000 fans, Caniacs arriving at PNC Arena. what's it like to go into that building with that number of fans because it happened very quickly, correct? Discussions with the local health authorities and government officials where you were able to more than double maybe what you were expecting for game one. Yeah, we were in contact last week with the governor's office and with the state health department. And we got the word about 2 o'clock on Friday. At that time, we had 5,000 tickets sold with our capacity.

and they gave us the opportunity. Actually, the state of North Carolina has opened it wide up. We can have a full house, but the NHL still got protocols that we have to meet. So that took us from 5,000 to 12,000. So we put 7,000 seats on sales starts Saturday morning, and by Monday morning, we were sold out. Well, that's interesting, I didn't realize. I thought it all went by local guidelines because I interviewed Bill Foley,

the owner of the Vegas goal at nights a few weeks ago. And he said they were working on getting to 100% capacity, hopefully by June 1st, which would be the second round of playoffs. Obviously, if they get there, they're down to Minnesota right now. But so it's not just as easy as saying, hey, your local health authorities say go for you. There's an NHL component as well. Correct.

It's all about air quality right now with the NHL. So you have to have, it's CFMs, they call it, and way of my degree from Northern Michigan University. But you have to bring in outside air, but you can't just bring in an outside air. It's got to be chilled air and no humidity because of the ice conditions. So right now you have to do all these measurements by your engineers. And we're, so every building is different. Every place is going to be different. So we're allowed right now, 12,000 through the NHG.

shelf. We made a decision yesterday that we are going to add, we're bringing in a 500-ton chiller, and it'll take about 10 days to get it all, all the piping and everything done. So hopefully if we're fortunate enough to win the first round and go to the second round, we'll be able to increase our tenants by another 4,000 people. Wow. Oh, wow. What's that moment like for you last night, Don? I mean, you've been through the whole, you know, the whole gamut the last year and a half.

Of course, the bubble situation in Toronto and the playing round victory over the Rangers and then losing to the Bruins. And if I'm not mistaken, I was trying to make sure I had the math right. But the last home playoff game would have been game four of the Eastern Conference final in 2019. Is my memory correct? And if so, what's it like to be back in that building and to have that number of fans there? And of course, to have your team come out with a victory. Yeah, no, it's outstanding. Your numbers are correct.

We had 19,000 people here for our last home playoff game. And I got to be honest, the 12,000 people that were there because the way we seated everybody and really filled the lower bowl, it really felt like there was 19,000 people there. So, no, it was exciting. I can't tell you how excited our Canadian fans were to come back in the arena. If you notice, each time Nashville scored, they came up at the opening next base off they came up all stood up and had a standing ovation

waving their towels just getting us back letting their players know they're there and supporting them and it certainly i think paid dividends for us to be able to win the game with that kind of support and you know going back to the trade deadline it was just over a month ago don you guys are pretty quiet and which hasn't always been the case i mean the year before you were super busy you made a bunch of deals. What was your philosophy that, you know, because let's be honest, Scott and I have talked about this a lot. I actually do think the trade deadline is overrated as far as determining who's got, you know,

how much it's going to help you win a cup or not. I think often it's cosmetic more than not. But, you know, Tampa had a good deadline a year ago. They won the cup. I mean, what's the pressure like to see what's out there? And at the end of the day, not do a whole lot. Obviously, you got the, you added the big guy from Anaheim and he's made his presence felt, But generally speaking, no block, no blockbusters.

Yeah, no, if you go back a year ago at the trade deadline, you know, Hamilton was out for basically the season. Peschi was out for the season. And we really wanted another right-hand sentiment. And so we were fortunate to get Trocheque from Florida and Brady Shea from the Rangers. And we had it back in New Jersey at that time. So there was more of a need. This year we really felt if we were healthy,

that we didn't have any big holes. We wanted another right-hand shot defenseman and getting Hock and Pock filled that boy for us. Is he 8 foot tall or is it just the way he looks on TV? He is what tall he would be, I could tell you that. So, you know, as every GM does, you know, you stay in touch with teams and that. But at the end of the day, we didn't feel there was something that, you know, when Cap comes into play, that we were, anything that was really going to make a difference for us, We could add some more depth guys maybe, but the end of the day, we really like our team.

And so we said, you know what, we're going to roll with it. And we believed in them at the start of the year. So, you know, let's not make a lot of changes. Just keep going the way we're going. Don, it's interesting. You mentioned Dougie Hamilton. One of two high-profile potential unrestricted free agents in your organization. And I'll ask it as a question, who do you think fans are more concerned about?

about the future of Dougie Hamilton, who could be a UFA when things are all said and done here, or your head coach, Rod Brindamore. What's that like for you, especially now that we're into the playoffs, and my sense is you won't be doing much negotiating in this moment. But are you surprised at how much fans have really sort of been engaged with what's happening, obviously with Dougie, but also with Rod as well? no because the media uh make sure they keep it a daily topic so um you know you have no choice but they have to deal with it on a regular basis you know the dougie hamilton is easy jp barry

who represents uh duggy you know we had some talks earlier the season and it's been probably two months now where we just decided let's play out the year we all know we want dougie back Dougie likes it here. He's found a good home here. And I know we're going to have a shot to sign him at some point. You know, he might have to see what the market is like out there and what teams are interested. Obviously in the salary cap world, not all the teams can be. But I'm confident that we're going to have a last look and have an opportunity to bring Dougie back if it all fits, you know, financially. Because, you know, the cap is a real thing now. And without the cap going up, you know, we got. Sebastian cough is coming off as an RFA. It's going to have a big increase in his salary. You got Marty Neekash coming off next year. So you can't just play for the moment. You got to plan for the future also.

So I'm hopeful that we'll have that opportunity to bring Doug back. You know, the rod is very interesting. Rod's a hurricane. I've had great talks with them. Tom Dunden, our owner has been involved with it. Rod's not going any place. We truly believe he's going to stay here. We've had great talks, no real negative tones, always pause up.

Rod watch coaches hockey team. And Rod also, you know, his focus is getting a team ready for the playoffs. The last week or so, we very small talk about it. We all know it's going to get done. And it's just a matter of timing and when that all happens. Well, there might be some teams out there hoping that you can't get it done, eh? He's a good coach. He's a good coach.

he's created a great environment with our players. Players love to play for him. So, you know, it's not like we're trying to hide the fact that he's done a great job here because he has. And so, but, you know, we feel confident that he will be the coach of the hurricanes moving forward. Yeah, that's where I would put my money. Speaking of my money, as a guy who drafted Peter Marazek in the NHL Media Fantasy League for the playoffs, there I am watching your team in game one and it's a rookie Alex Nettlevich in Nett

and I knew that that was a possibility but I guess when you have two strong choices I figured the veteran would get the first crack so it's interesting that Rod went with the kid what's your sense of having those types of options to start the playoff? Yeah it was probably the most talked about thing the last week after we finished in Nashville

on that Tuesday there was not a decision made until the day for, you know, we talked every day about it. Coaches spent hours on it. You know, nothing against Peter. You know, Peter had a tough year this year with his injuries and they can get to play as many games. We think actually practice right for him right now is a plus for him. And, you know, every playoffs that we've been in so far in the last few years, we've used two goalies. So you never know what's going to happen from game to game. But, you know, Ned, if you look at the overall season, how he played, you know, he deserved to be the guy to get the first call. So, you know, I think

we're very fortunate, you know, Peter was out most of the year. And between Ned and James Reimer, they did a great job to get his first place and put his in his position to have home ice advantage. So probably surprised for a lot of people internally, you know, it was a tough debate. But at the end of the day, we felt that Ned had done enough this year. And he, You know, we've got to remember his first NFL playoff game, but he did win a Calder trophy a few years ago out in Charlotte with our farm team. And I've always said it doesn't matter what level you're playing at.

When you get to play for championships, there's a lot of pressure on that. So he played in pressure games before, and we think he performed well last night to give us the opportunity to win the game. And as a quick follow, sorry, Scottie. The interesting thing is the injury to Marazek also not only gave, you know, Nettelovich some playing time,

but changed his status as a free agent by the end of it, right? He was... Yeah, he had to play 20... He needed 27 NHL games, and coming in the year, he had five, I believe it was. So, you know, we talked about at the beginning of year, didn't think it was ever going to get there. And then Peter went down and, you know, they were rotating pretty much him and Rimer.

And before you know it, he was at 1920 games and, you know, got to the what we needed to change the status from a UFA group six to a restricted free agent. Right. And again, not insignificant, not only because he looks like a real promising young goalie, but your other two guys for UFA, so nice to have at least some control over one of the three, I guess, setting into the off season. Yeah, you know, with this franchise, the last three years since Tom took over, I think Gold Tain every summer is the hottest topic that we go through.

because of the free agent situation and, you know, everybody always wants us to upgrade our goal tenting. And we were pretty confident that last year, last summer that, you know, we couldn't do any better. I mean, there wasn't better goalies out there, but we liked the tandem. You know, we thought going in the year, it's going to be more Rimer and Marazic and then Peter gets hurt and that comes in there. So, you know, every, every offseason, I know that's going to be another hot topic this summer for everybody to talk about. but one way or another, we've always seemed to figure it out. And our goal tening, you know, the last three years, you know, we lost last year to Boston after the playing around with the Rangers.

And I tell you that every series we lost, it hasn't been because of our gold tenings. Our gold tenings been fine. They may not have the shiny names that some people want, but they are capable of doing the job for us. Don, since you took over as a GM in May of 2018, I mean, The fortunes of this team have changed really dramatically. That playoff run in 2019, first time in the playoffs in a decade, disappointing and against Boston, as you just noted. But this Hurricane's team hits the playoffs and not just because I picked them to win the cup. I had them as my cup winner at the start of the season, and that stuck with that as we were heading into the playoffs.

But the expectations on this team are different than maybe they've been going back to, the year that they won the cup in 0506 after the lockout. I wonder if that changes, if you notice that, you know, changes of dynamics. Does it change how Rod has to approach this team and this playoff year? Does that kind of expectation, you know, have an impact on a really young, talented team? Or what's your take on that? I think for sure it does. You know, I can remember going back 1819 when we were playing Washington first round.

and I remember all the gambling sites had us as a 20% chance to win that series. Then we go down 2-0 in Washington to start the series, and I think we went to a 95% chance for losing. And we found a way to come back. So, you know, sometimes being the underdog is a fortunate thing because you catch teams maybe thinking that they're going to go through it easier than it appears. But so I think we had an approach a little bit differently this year. Winning our division, you know, everybody knows we played, had a good year. You know, so we're the team that people want to knock off. So I think you do approach it differently.

But I also think what you said, though, with our young players, most of these guys now, we're fortunate to have a significant amount of good young players, but they all had a chance to play the last three years in playoffs. And we all know playoff hockey is much different than regular season hockey. So it's not like they're going into this playoff without that experience. where they were in 1819. So I think we can build off all those playoffs that we had previous years.

Well, I picked the Carolina-Colrador Cup final, so now you may never want to speak to us again. It's never good when Scottie and I are on the same page, but although I did pick the Outlance to win the Cup at least. But, yeah, it feels like you guys have taken the steps to be ready for a run. You know, like it's not that often, really, that a team just gets to get into their first.

playoff in a long time and it all lines up. But, uh, and, you know, and I think to me, you guys play a brand of game. One of the reasons I picked Colorado, Carolina, and what do I know? But is you guys remind me a lot of each other when I watch the abs play and I watch you guys play, Don, a lot of the comments I get from opposing coaches and opposing players is that you guys swarm the other team. Colorado gets that a lot. But I, but I, but I, you know, watching you guys again in game one, same thing. That's sort of the swarming element. Like it feels like you're playing with an extra skater.

And is that, I mean, how important is that as sort of part of your brand is the way you guys play? Yeah, 100%. You know, we talk about it all the time. We talk about it. We're adding players in the mix over the last few years. We want players that play with Temple. You know, everybody talks about skating fast players. Fast players are great, but how you play it.

You know, we may not have all the best skaters the world, but the temple that we try to play with and how we want to be on the puck all the time. And there's something that, you know, what Rod preaches on every day. It's just, you know, we want to be on the puck. We think we're a quick team. We can forecheck well. And, you know, if we play that up style temple, we think we're going to make it very hard on teams, particularly in our own zone. And, you know, the one thing about Rod is he always wants to. He doesn't want to change.

It doesn't matter. Up by goal, down by goal. He likes to play that same style to try to make sure the guys stay within the program. Well, listen, we'll let you go here, Don. But for my final question, you know, you've been at this a long time. And I know how much you enjoy it. And you seem to have the energy of a 40-year-old. What's your sense of your future, you know, with the hurricanes?

And, you know, where I was talking about, you know, With coaches, we always know what's going on with their contracts. I'm not going to ask you what's going on with yours, but how much are you enjoying this? And, you know, how long do you think you want to do it? The great question, Pierre, you know, I work for Tom Dunden, who's probably one of smartest business people I ever worked with. He's very involved, as you guys know, particularly on the hockey side. He's very passionate about the team.

And him and I have a relationship that it's very important. unique, let's say, we get along very well. We each have our moments probably with each other, but I enjoy working with Tom and for Tom. So, you know, it's, as you said, you know, I don't know how long I'm going to do this for. You know, it's, it's one of these things that I do, if I get up one morning and I say, I don't want to do this anymore, then that'll be enough, and I've had a great run at it. But right now, I look forward, you know, I've said when I've been in town, not traveling. I've been here seven years. It was only three days. I didn't come to the office. I love to come to my office. Every morning I look forward. We played last night and

get home at midnight. Five o'clock. I'm back in the office because I just, I love the office atmosphere. And so as long as I keep, you know, have that desire, you know, who knows how long it lasts. Well, let me ask you just as a follow up and then we will let you go. You mentioned Tom Dundton. And as an owner, he has, he has approached his position as owner of this team in a way that's really different than a lot of NHL owners, a lot of pro sports owners in general. And I wonder what kind of, you know, how you've maybe had to adjust how you approach your job, because Tom's approach is also a little bit different. And I've, you know, I've been lucky. I was able to sit in on your draft prep in 2018. And then again, last October being in Raleigh,

and watching, you know, how involved Tom is on a lot of the hockey off stuff. How has it changed how you've had to approach your job? Because Tom's role is a little bit different than other owners. Yeah, no, it's a great question because, you know, if he wasn't so passionate about it and he knows more about players than probably a lot of us in the hockey world, you know, he watches more video. He knows the drafts got you said in there. He knows these players.

You know, he may not know the skill level, you know, because he's not a purist, but he's watching up video and he does comparison. And he's, he's been right a lot more than he's been wrong. And so when somebody's invested that way and they're putting their time in, you got it given the highest marks for it. And, you know, the organization overall, you know, we're a cap team. We're going to be, you know, a little under the cap this year if we didn't do anything at the deadline. but it's because of our overages we're going to have on bonuses or the bonuses this year we wanted to make sure we didn't have any overages. So, you know, he's willing to invest his money. He knows what's going to drive our team is invested in the team.

And that's what he's done. And so we've got to make sure that we take care of everything else around it to provide the revenue to support this kind of team. It's a payroll. But, no, Tom is, like I said, he is. very passionate and are, you know, for me, I just got to make sure that I keep him updated as much as I can. You know, we'll talk every day, probably eight to ten times a day. Some of the conversations are short, some are longer, and it's mostly always about the team. And, you know, from the business side, he'll have some ideas once in a while, but he pretty much leaves me

alone on that. And we just have a relationship where I just tell him, If there's something I think he's doing that it doesn't make sense or is not right? I'm knowing one that can really step up and tell them that. So, you know, we have huge debates about things at times. But at the end of the day, we always come out with the best solution. What's best for our franchise? Well, I can tell you, Scott tries to talk to me eight, ten times a day. And I put a kibosh to that.

I ended those efforts years ago. Yeah, that's because I don't own anything. That's the thing. I don't have any leverage. I don't have the assets I need. Anyway, Dawn, it's been great to catch up and really enjoyed our chat. And hopefully, you know, as this playoff run goes along, maybe we'll all physically be in the same spot at some point in an arena down the road.

But thanks so much for hanging out with Pierre and I today. And good luck to you and the hurricanes the rest of the way. I really appreciate the time with you guys, obviously. you guys do a great job and anytime you can it's my honor to be able to be on your show and give you some thoughts of what's going on here with the hurricanes and the city of rawling i appreciate that don and what a great story going on down there those crazy crazy hurricanes fans that was amazing to see in game one great thank you guys all right pierre that was it's always and as you know i've known donnie a long time as you have of course his time here

in Atlanta with the thrashers. I can tell you, I, you know, I got no dog in the fight, right? But I think Tom Dundan is pretty darn lucky that he's got, that he and Don Waddell have sort of found each other and their relationship. Because I'm not sure everyone could work that way as an NHLGM. And I think Tom Dundan's lucky. And I think, I think Donnell has done an unbelievable job because that team, listen, whether they make it to a final, as you and I both have predicted this summer or not,

that team is built for the long haul. And I think it's interesting the dynamic that exists down there. You know, and it's interesting. You know, when Don went to Carolina, it was really to be as president of the business operation. And it wasn't to be on the hockey side at all. And then even after, you know, Ron Francis was fired and, And then they had a GM search. Like I remember being extensively reporting on, you know, now they're talking to this

candidate, now they're talking to that candidate. And Tom Dundon, frankly, I think if he was on with us, would just say he interviewed a lot of people and then realized like, why don't I just have Don Waddell do this? And that's what has ended up happening. And again, Don Waddell was not trying to get that job. There's no way, you know. But I think it speaks to his relationship with his. owner that when the owner said, you know, why do you do the GM job? And he said, okay. I mean,

it's kind of organic the way it all played out. Yeah. I do remember a conversation with Don and I can't remember whether it was at the draft in 18 when I was sitting in on their room or whenever it was. But I remember sort of alluding to, oh, well, you know, now that you're back on the hockey side and, you know, he's, well, wait a minute. I'm not, I am back on the hockey side, but I haven't given up anything on the business side. I had just assumed, oh, well, Tom Dundner would get somebody else to do that job. But no, Don's done both jobs, you know, right from the moment he took on the GM role. So lots of, he's a busy man, Don Waddell.

So, and it was great to catch up with him. All right, my friend, back at every week I say, you know, when are we going to get a sponsorship for Ask the Dorks? That's what I, come on. Somebody out there. I just had a Duncan. You're not much of a Duncan guy. I don't mind, Duncan. As you know, my favorite coffee is owned by Jason Spetson's mother-in-law, Muscoca coffee.

That's right. And you know, I've had some Muscoca coffee up at your place, and it is very tasty. It's sold in Toronto now, and it's available everywhere. Believe me, I get no cut from this. This is from the heart. I know. Good stuff. Well, good for Jason.

Jason Spetser, just about finally getting back into the playoff groove when the Leafs opening against the Habs. How exciting. All right, so a couple of questions here. One from Scott M. Crouch and another from Johnson from Wisconsin that track a parallel path. And really curious about our take on Dean Everson's decision to start the playoffs, head coach of the Minnesota Wild, of course, start to playoffs with the veteran for Zach Parise as a healthy scratch. He's a 36 years old under contract through 20, 24, 25 at a 7.5.

38, 461, million dollar cap hit, has no move clause. So what happens? And we talked a little bit earlier in, you know, what happens, you know, what happens with Sergey Bobroski, given, you know, the playoff decisions in Florida. What do you make of this? What does this mean? And who knows, now the series tied 1-1 coming home, do you think we'll see Zach Prezze?

What do you make of the whole Zach Brisee thing? Yeah, well, obviously, Mike Russo's chronicle this at length. And it's controversial for sure, especially because what's interesting about it is that often you'll see the opposite. But sometimes the veteran will get the benefit of the doubt and at least get game one. And then if he's ineffective, then at least you could say he got his chance. And then you can take him out of the lineup. Like I think about the way Dominic Descharm has gone about it with the HABs, all the, you know,

the vets get in and the kids are sitting out for game one, right? Right. And you can disagree or agree with it. with it, but I'm just saying it seems to be more the norm. And this might be hard to repatriate at the end of the season, Catoon Prey's in the organization, right? He's a proud guy and been there a long time. But let's also be honest, we know that there was nearly a trade between the Wilde and the Islanders a couple of years ago, the deadline. Right.

See, well, it feels like a couple years ago. I guess it was actually last season before the pandemic. Right, exactly. Yes. Before the pause. Yeah, and I remember. Russo and Frank Sarvelli having a lot of details on that when it broke, which would not have pleased the Lumberlo that it got out there. But, you know, what did you do next?

I mean, the actual cash goes down on Porese starting next year. He goes down the 6th. And after that, it's $2 million a year, and then $1 million a year, one million year. So the actual cash component of it goes down after this year. But the 7-5 cap it remains, of course, the way the system works. And we're in a flat-cap environment. So you'd never say it's impossible. possible to move him because I think teams are really creative.

Again, there might be a contract that goes the other way that a team is trying to get rid of. Like, who knows. But, you know, it's tough. It's tough. And usually the, you know, usually the player involved is the last one to perhaps feel like, like this is justified. I don't blame him, especially such a terrific guy like Zach Greese. So it's kind of sad to see, to be honest. Yeah, it is.

Well, it means part of the emotion of it, right? And, you know, I've known that like you, I've known Zach a long time. I think of him, you know, on that devil's team that went to the final in 2012, the captain there. And, you know, just, yeah, there's a lot. And, but I got to tell you, I just have so much respect for Bill Guerr and Dean Eveson, because you're absolutely right. Right. The easy call, the easy thing to do is have them in the lineup, right? Like, that's just, okay, whatever, right?

You take out Rask or you take out Marcus Johan's or whatever you're going to do. But, you know, clearly within the organization is what lineup gives us the best chance to beat Vegas? And I'm not sure you can argue not even just in the playoffs, but down the stretch when Paris, you know, was first not in the lineup. The results on the ice justify what Dean Everson and Bill Guerrne are doing. Right. And if you look, if you think about the pretense of why Bulgarian was brought in as GM, and the Bill Guerin regime in Minnesota has been about that the status quo is in good. enough. And this team has now gone to another level with Bill Garan that it hadn't before.

But part of that is ruffling some feathers. And think about trading Eric Stahl. Yes. Which no one saw coming. And Eric Stahl was really good in Minnesota. But Bill Garan's like, you know what, we've got to make changes here. So in that context of what Bill Guerrins' time has been so far in Minnesota, it's not shocking at all that they'd be willing to sit down Zach Freezing. Yeah. All right. Let's finish up. We've got two more. And both of them are connected to the Canadians. This one, I think, is probably an easier one. This is from CG who wonders whether it's feasible that Shea Weber gets exposed in the expansion draft, younger players coming up, all those kinds of things. Shea Weber, just as we look at it here,

under contract through 2526 at a $7.87 million annual cap hit has no protection. So he can be exposed, but it strikes me that that's unlikely, but I don't know. What do you make of that? I think it's unlikely. I mean, first of all, if Mark Bergerman is still GM, and there's no evidence suggests he won't be at this point, but we'll see after the season. Mark Bergerman has 13 months left on his contract as GM, so it's an interesting offseason. I think if you're Jeff Moulson, you obviously, and I think some of those conversations have already some of them have happened, but more will happen than after the season is, you know, where are we headed here? It's his ninth year, but I think Jeff Wilson thinks highly of Mark Bergerna. So I don't know that you

want Mark Bergerman to walk into next year on an expiring deal in that market. So that'll be a big decision. But as long as Bergerman's GM, I think his relationship and loyalty to Shea Weber, you know that I've asked Mark Bergerman a few times over the last couple of years what his number one trade has been in nine years of Montreal. And you're talking about a guy who's made a lot of good trades, right? I mean, trading for Josh Anderson, trading for Jeff Petrie, trading for Phil Dono from Chicago for a couple of expiring deals. He's made a lot of good ones, but he never hesitates. Che Weber is his number one trade. And a lot of it is just that he brought in this ultimate captain who helped change the culture in that room. And so I find it hard to believe

that that would be likely. You know, it's funny. When I was reading the question, I was like, Well, I'm with you. I think it's unlikely. But the other part of it, though, right, he's 35 years old. He still has, it's a big hit against the cap. And it's, you know, there's a lot left on it. And to me, and maybe there's no guarantee. But if you're on Francis, I don't know, for the very same reason you just articulated why Mark Bergerman feels so strongly about this deal.

If, if for some reason, Shea Weber is exposed, I can't think of a better person to have in your locker room in Seattle, to start your NHL life. I just, I can't imagine it. And even, you know, even at the big hit and the long term, I can't imagine it wouldn't be a great fit if you're Ron Francis. But anyway, it's interesting. Well, and keep in mind that we have to stop looking at the expansion draft

as the only vehicle for Seattle to acquire players. Right. The Seattle, the expansion draft certainly forces a lot of decisions, and there will be players obviously acquired through it, the majority of their players. but at the end of the day, if Seattle has an appetite for a certain veteran player, it could just be a trade. It could be going to an organization and to that player and to his agent and saying,

wouldn't you love this transition? Wouldn't you love to be part of this? We'll put a letter on you. And I'm not talking about Jay Weber in particular. I'm talking about anyone named a player. But that could be just a simple trade. It could have nothing to do with the expansion draft. So keep that in mind, too.

I mean, there's a lot of different ways here for Seattle to go about. you know, how they put this together. All right, finally, we're going to close with a question from our good friend, Al, in Ottawa, who has sent this a question every week. I love that. And it doesn't care whether we use one or not, but they're often quite good. Although one week ago, he asked a question that referred to a time I was playing mensly, hockey in Ottawa, and was trash-talking a guy who threw me to the ice and kicked me in the head.

And he asked a question about throwing blood on people. So we didn't get to that one. Can you imagine that that happened? Because you played some hockey with me. Like, I've done that team how to care. And I think that's, I mean, if anyone should be thrown to the ice, it's me. Because I was a lot more abrasive than you on the ice. You were always our lady Bing guy, I thought.

Gentlemanly like on the ice. It's very true. She's, I guess that guy just didn't like redheads. I guess not, maybe. Anyway, Al's question, which is a good one because you touched on it earlier in the podcast. And that is the decision from Coach Dushar and the Montreal Canadiens to keep some of the younger players on the bench to start the series against Toronto, go with a more veteran lineup. And now's question about Jaspari Akkiyemi, whose name I never quite say properly, but you know who I'm talking about. Khammi Kameen Yemi.

You know, does this indicate a dissatisfaction beyond the start of the playoffs, that this is maybe a player who doesn't have a role with this. team. I mean, it's, he's 20 years old, but he has been, you know, he's, he feels like he's been in the league a lot longer than he has because he's, he's sort of, he's been, you know, he's still super young, which I think people keep forgetting when they talk about him. But it has, the second half of this year was disappointing for him. I was saying, as you know, I do a lot of the house games with TSA. Exactly. It's been tough. Very little offensive impact.

I think it's affected his confidence, you know, It doesn't really affect his role moving forward in the sense that, you know, Eric Stahl right now is taking his place in the lineup in game. One, Eric Stoll's UFA at the end of the year, right? So, you know, Kockenemi is one in Montchell Center starting next season. But it's, you know, remember a year ago before the pandemic, people kind of forget this, especially outside of Montreal because so much has happened. But Kakenei was sent back to LaValle for a reset. Right. And then had a pretty good run in the game.

the bubble. And it was like, oh, all is forgotten. But after a strong start this year, you know, I think he really has struggled with the second half. And that's what Dominic Sharms sees. But pretty sure we're going to see him in the series. Like, yeah, I have a feeling he's going to be all hands on deck for the halves if they're chasing the series. And there's going to be a lot of roster changes. So I don't get to work tough about who's in the lineup game one. Right. Let's talk about it all at the end of the series. All right. Buddy, that was outstanding. What else we got on this? So we have Craig Cussons, and Sean Gentilly. They debuted the Athletic Hockey Show Tuesday edition. And basically, they're only allowed to talk about

American players because that was in response to complain about us talking, you know, Canadian side. So good for them. And just to prove the point, they had one of the greatest American goaltenders of all time, Ryan Miller, who we spoke about, you know, we're not, we don't talk just about Canadian here. And so, anyway, they have Ryan Miller on their first show. this week. Aaron Andrews. What a great story, Aaron Andrews is. Longtime hockey fan, of course. Spends

a full 60 with Craig Custin's on the season finale of the full 60. Yeah, Thursday on the episode finale. Yeah, well, that's because he's got full time talking about American hockey players now. He's got to do that afterwards. Also, Seattle Cracken play-by-play

voice. John Forreland. John Forrezzlin is such a, he's one of the, A, one of the greatest broadcasters. I think he calls a great, great game. For sure. It's so excited for Seattle that he's going there. But I don't know when he rests. It's like, you know, every night we're like, oh, is that John Foresland? Yeah, every night he's doing a game during the playoffs. Anyway, he joins Mike Russo on Straight From the Source this week at the Athletic. And Mike Russo, I just wish you would do some work, right? Just coasting along there. But no, great work by Mike as always.

And you should listen to that. You should also check out our comments section for each podcast. episode at the Athletic app and rate and subscribe to the Athletic Hockey Show on Apple. If you aren't already a subscriber, go to theathletic.com slash hockey show and receive a subscription for just $3.99 per month. Next week, my friend, we will know what the narrative is in the North Division, the Canadian playoffs. And of course, you know, I grew up a Habs fan. I grew up Toronto, Montreal. Can't wait to see how that unfolds. be great drama and I can't wait to catch up next week with you on all of those topics and more. Right on, right on.