The Athletic Hockey Show - Doug Armstrong talks St. Louis Blues & Team Canada.McDavid most valuable, Chicago & New Jersey most improved

Episode Date: February 17, 2021

Doug Armstrong, the General Manager of the St. Louis Blues and Team Canada at the 2022 Winter Olympics joins Pierre and Scott on the Two Man Advantage edition of The Athletic Hockey Show. Army discusses what he is looking for in players and coaches for the '22 winter games and how much the roster will turn over from the 2014 games. Army talks about the recently wrapped 7 games series between his Blues and the Arizona Coyotes and a breakout season for Jordan Kyrou and a comeback season for Justin FaulkPlus, Scott and Pierre marvel at the job Steve Hatz Petros has done organizing the NHL schedule, they discuss Katie Strang's reporting on the Arizona Coyotes and talk about the monster seasons of Connor McDavid and Auston Matthews and the Chicago Black Hawks and New Jersey Devils who have surprised with their season to date.Finally, the boys answer your questions via twitter in another round of Ask the Insiders with good stuff on the NHL point system, Mattias Ekholm trade rumours and the Capitals defense.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Everybody, Scott Burnside back for another edition of the Athletic Hockey Show, two-man advantage edition, Pierre LeBrun. I was worried about you this week. The Habs, seven, you know, the habs are off. Are you okay? Are you, I don't want you to be sleeping? Are you worried about my TSN? You're worried about my TSN studio schedule?

That's so nice of me. Well, you know, I got to tell you, we watch you're at home, and we always make a point of watching you on the internet. mission. And I'm, like, I'm not, you know, I'm, all right, I'm, I'm trying to curry favor. It's obvious. But no, we do. We like to watch you. And then, of course, with the HAB's off this week, I'm just afraid. I didn't want you to go down, you know, like, into some sort of catatonic trance for a week. I just want to make sure you're okay. It allows me to watch other games, which is nice. But it's true. Yeah. The schedule comes back to haunt me. I've got, I just, I was looking at my March schedule.

I've got 11 HAB studio games in next month. So, it's, it's, it's, it's. it'll come back at me. I know, and you and I were just talking about that, but you go into the studio to do the HABS, but you tape Insider Trading and the other shows from home. So that changes how your lifestyle is and what your day is like. Do you think this is very interesting to people listening? I'm fascinated by the whole thing.

I'm fascinated by the whole thing. Yeah, I mean, obviously with the pandemic folks at TSM, we're pretty smart in the way they pivoted and installed camera equipment and lights in our home offices for myself, Darren Dregor, we've had on. Yes. Frank Saravelli and a lot of our analysts so that we can do a lot from our home offices and it looks really good so that we're not always having to go to the studio. And again, there's a real sensitivity to the numbers in terms of who is in the studio, right?

this new COVID world. So it's worked out pretty well so far, I'd say. Good. I know. I don't care. Frankly, I don't care. If no one else is interested, too bad. I am. And I'm glad we got through that. And you know what? It allows us to, because you mentioned scheduling, it allows us to to break seamlessly into, I thought was just a fascinating piece that came out on the athletic that You penned and your conversation with Steve Hatz Petros, who is the man behind the scenes and maybe one of the most important figures in the National Hockey League this season, because he and his team are the keepers of the schedule. And as of yesterday, the NHL announcing make updates for 29 post-borne games, games that had to be rearranged. And I thought the piece was fascinating on a number of different levels. You know, how does the schedule work in the normal course of events in a non-COVID world?

How does the schedule work? What's the team's involvement? What's the relationship between the league and the schedule makers and the teams? Because you and I have, we have this conversation quite often. You know, GM will say, yeah, I'm going into the league office to talk to Steve, the schedule maker and basically complain about their lot. in life, but it's, it is a many-layered thing and never more so than in this COVID-19 season. And I wonder what you took away from from the process. Because my sense is this was a, this was an educational process for you too.

Oh, man, you stole the words right out of my mouth. I felt like I was back in university 30 years ago, taking notes because I had about a 40-minute to chat and really learned so much about how it works. And I've been meeting for a long time to do this piece. And then over the last few weeks was really trying to get him on the phone. And it's hard. He does not do a lot of interviews. As you've seen, he's kind of this mystery man.

And I know he had been there a long time. I was amazed to find out he joined the league in 1986 and has been part of the schedule making since 1990. And so I think that propriety knowledge is important, not just in a season like this year, where the schedule is changing almost every couple of days. But, you know, both the unique software system that the league uses, but also the, as he says, the human touch, the league does not have a fully automated system. They like to balance the computer side of it with making decisions on the human side. because otherwise a computer doesn't always take everything into consideration when changing the schedule. So I tell you, I was just mesmerized by the entire process and the understanding of it,

knowing that you're never going to please everyone, of course, but at least now having a better sense of why certain things are happening. And yeah, him and his staff are being tested this year. But amazingly, even as of this morning with all the rescheduled games, they've yet to schedule any games past Monday, May 10th. regular season was obviously supposed to end Saturday, May 8th, right, when they originally announced schedule. They've got two games on Monday May 10th.

They got Dallas and Tampa and New Jersey at Philly. But they still have reserved the right to schedule, reschedule games throughout that week, that week of May 10th, if need be. Now, they're trying to avoid it, of course. But they're willing to delay the playoffs a week. And the playoffs should start May 12th, but if they have to reschedule more games and more games and more games, they will use that. that week. But so far, despite all the rescheduled games, they're only into Monday, May 10,

which means at this hour, as you and I speak, they can actually start the playoffs still on Wednesday, May 12th. Now, are we convinced that that's going to remain the case? I don't know. I mean, obviously, with the COVID cases, you're concerned that there might be more. But as of now, that's kind of impressive, actually. Well, I got to tell you, that was the part of the story that I was completely gobsmacked by because I just assumed that we were already, we had eaten into all of that week. And I was, and I think that, you know, sort of just wondering aloud, geez, you know, how much more runway and, you know, at what point do you get where you have to drop games completely off the schedule to get the playoffs in? But I was amazed by that. And I don't,

you know, I mean, with the new protocols and we've seen now some rapid testing come into play, it is going to get warmer. I know it doesn't feel like that in a lot of, well, pretty much for every single listener out there right now, but it is going to get warmer. Vaccines are going to become more and more available. I thought Kevin Kerr did a great job for us this week looking at, you know, how the vaccine rollout might work for NHL players as the vaccines become more and more, hopefully more and more available to the general population as we head into the spring. That, geez, maybe we are, maybe we are coming through the dark end of it. You know, we just saw New Jersey come back after a long layoff, Buffalo,

Minnesota Wild back in action last night after a long break. So maybe we get it. I was amazed, though, the idea that the playoffs are basically on schedule as we speak right now. I thought that was pretty impressive. Yeah, and it's interesting for the teams that have really been hit hard, you know, Buffalo, New Jersey, you know, obviously Dallas at the beginning, you know, in Minnesota, if there's any silver line,

And let's remind people, we're not sugar-coding the fact that a lot of these players have had COVID-19. And I still have fears and questions about even if they're back playing what the long-term effects of that are on an athlete. But hockey-wise, one of the interesting things is if you, you know, we're going to trust what the scientists are telling us. If you've had COVID-19, you're essentially immune for 90 days, right? is what they're saying. And so a lot of these teams that have had their outbreaks basically are in the clear now. Yeah. Which is interesting.

And, you know, the flip side to that is they're playing every second day forever. But at least now it should be that they don't have any more, you know, conflicts moving forward. I should have mentioned this right off the top, but I got so engrossed in your life and your schedule. But you know what the great part of this show is. In a few minutes, we're going to be joined by Doug Armstrong, St. Louis, Blues, General Manager, and for the purposes of what we will discuss in part today, while we were going to discuss the never-ending series between the Blues and the Arizona Coyotes, I kind of like that. But also, of course, Doug Armstrong, as you had reported and confirmed a couple weeks ago, the GM of Canada's Olympic team in 2002 in Beijing. So we're going to get to Doug Armstrong in a minute.

Lots going on still. Where do we start here? What's on your mind? I'm going to throw it back to you. We'll have a little sort of give and take. What news, especially given the fact that you haven't been, you know, sort of knee-deep in had games this week? What's come up for you that you're like, okay, that's interesting.

I can't wait to see you that out, how that plays out. Or what's, you know, a couple trades? What's going on? What are you thinking about? today. You know, we talked about this on That's Hockey last night on Tuesday night, but and Craig Button was really eloquent talking about it. But I hope no one's taken for granted what Connor McDavid is doing. I mean, sometimes the, you know, the old saying about the forest and the trees, I'm telling you, he's playing the best hockey of his life, which is saying something. And,

you know, is it going to be enough? You know, I mean, it's just so, fascinating me the whole thing with Eminton. And the Oilers have played a lot better over the last month. You know, they were really shaky, structure-wise and defensively to start the year. And Dave Dippet, as one of the great coaches in this league, has turned that ship around. And I think they're playing some

excellent hockey now. They had a wild one the other night with Winnipeg. But Connor McDavid, leading the points race, but more importantly in that, you look at all the underlying stats. Like, he is carrying that team. And his explosives and it, and the

way that he is opening up ice for his team. It's just unbelievable what he's doing. And I think sometimes it's like, you're like, oh, yeah, he's Connor McDavid. And you move on. You don't think much about it. But I think we just take time to appreciate what he's doing. And as I said a lot on DSN the other night, I mean, the Hart Trophy right now, to me, is between Connor McDavid and Austin Matthews.

You know, Austin Matthews, 13 goals and 15 games as we take this ridiculous. you know, a 70-gold pace on an 82-game year. I think Patrick Cain might have a say in that in Chicago, the way he's carrying that team to a surprising record so far and doing some pretty amazing things. But to me, early on here, first quarter of the season, I'm going to peg it to a McDavid Matthews Derby for the early season heart race.

And that's pretty exciting. I mean, it is fascinating. And you sort of alluded to it that, you know, is, and it's not, you know, it's, you know, it's both McDavid and in Dreys Idol. It's pretty incredible what they're doing. In fact, between the two of them, 56 points in

17 games. Grace Island is plus 11, almost 60% in the faceoff circle, which is pretty cool for him. But the other cool thing about Connor McDavid is, as you and I are taping this, he is one point away from 500 career

points. I did not know this. And thank goodness for Jeff DeMette, our producer, because, as It says in front of me, let's assume that Connor McDavid, because he gets at least a point every single night, pretty much. This would be his 369th career game. And if he gets to number 500, it would be the same number of games that Sidney Crosby took to get to 500 career points. And I don't think there's, like, we don't really compare them, I don't think, in the way that, you know, Alex Ovetchkin and Sydney Crosby are always sort of linked at the hip. And I don't even know if we even talk about Jack Eichael and Connor McDavid in the same way anymore, you know, when they're connected as they were in their draft here.

But I do think it is interesting that there is a sort of a tracking there. Am I making too much of it or do you like that sort of connection? No, there's no question. And as Craig Button likes to say, Connor McDavid is the only generational player we've had since Cindy Crosby. I mean, that's with all due respect to Austin, Matt. Matthews and Nathan McKinnon, who McKinnon's pretty close. But generational player is a really strong word. And, you know, you're talking, you know, Mario and Gretzky and so on.

So it is amazing the symmetry points-wise between McDavid and Crosby at the stage of their careers. But I guarantee you if Connor McDavid was on here with us, the first thing he mentioned is he'd like to get some of that winning going. on like Conner and like Sidney Crosby had. Right. Exactly. And that's where all of his focuses for Connor McDavid is, you know, getting this franchise deep into the playoffs and winning a Stanley Cup and so on and so on. That's the only thing that's going to matter, you know, to McDavid.

And in many ways, as much as we're tracking McDavid with Crosby points-wise, maybe it's McDavid and Ovechkin narrative-wise in terms of how long it took for Ovechkin to get his team over the hump, right? Yeah. And what a magnificent moment it was in 2018 when Ovechkin won his cup. But I, you know, that'll be the curiosity to me is, is which, which path that McDavid is going to have to take? Is it going to start winning soon like Crosby did? Or is it going to be a longer journey like Ovechkin? Well, and here's the, I mean, it is entirely possible. I don't know whether it's likely, but it's possible that we could have a playoff without Sidney Crosby and without Connor McDavid. And frankly, we could have a, you know, okay, it's an even, even stranger, it's even more of a stretch. You could have a playoff this spring slash summer without Crosby, McDavid, or Ovechkin. What do you think?

Ah, the caps will make the playoffs. Come on. Really? I'm just asking you. We're looking at the standings right now. I mean, they're right now, they're in fourth place. Two points ahead of Pittsburgh. The Caps, big bounce back win over the penguins last night.

Well, the east is the beast. The East is the beast. No question about it. I mean, we're not from the get-go. Well, and here's the interesting thing. The only team, actually, I think it's going to come down to Washington or Pittsburgh to nab that four spot. I think Boston, the Islanders, Philly, pretty tough to dislodge. But the wild card for me, and it's so hard to tell, and there are a bunch of teams who fall into this category, there's New Jersey.

They've only played 10 games. They've got four games in hand. on both Pittsburgh and Washington, three back of Pittsburgh, five back of Washington right now. Kenzie Blackwood playing lights out. I thought the Devils were so impressive because they haven't played in like, what, three months now, whatever it was there, COVID break. They come back and other Rangers are really struggling offensively and struggling to close out games, but I thought it was an impressive win for the New Jersey Devils.

And I just love what Lindy Ruff is doing with that team. I honestly, and I'll admit this. look at their lineup last night. I'm like, okay, I don't know who that kid is. I don't know who that kid is. But they play a really fun style of hockey. And I'm curious to see whether New Jersey could stay in the hunt there. But if they can, it's going to put a lot of pressure on Pittsburgh slash Washington, I think, for that final spot in the east. That's my thinking. Yeah. I mean, it's fair to ask how long the devils can keep this up. Man, are they fun to watch? I mean, they're really fun to watch. They play with a ton of pace, which I obviously think is incredibly

important in the modern game. And, you know, and credit Tom Fitzgerald and Jim Mill in that front office that, you know, and this story doesn't, we're not quite sure where this is all headed with the devils, right? Right. Front office wise. You know, I mean, it was sort of eyebrow raising that the penguins even thought they could talk to Thomas Gerald, which, of course, they ended up not being able to do so. But the implication was that the penguins like everyone else are like, have you guys really committed to that front office

in terms of devil's ownership, right? And I don't know, if you're those owners in New Jersey, or you're not looking at what's going on with this front office and this young team right now and saying we need to commit to these guys? It's an interesting thing for me. Yeah, no, I

think the whole thing is fascinating there. And it really, you know, we talk about the divisional setup. And I want to swing to the north because there's so much going on there newswise. But I think one of the interesting parts of this divisional play is that the urgency is there all the time. Like that devil's team, they've got these games to make up. But it's right there for them. And I didn't think that they were going to be that kind of team. And it is, listen, there's been a lot of ups and downs with the devils for the last, I don't know, eight or nine years.

I mean, I know they went to the final in 2012, but really it's been a struggle for them since. And I do love what Tom Fitzgerald has done in very, under very difficult circumstances. It's taking over for Ray Shiro. So I'm curious to see how long they hang in. I want to, before we get to our first break and get to Doug Armstrong, You mentioned Patrick Kane, the Chicago Blackhawks. To me, they are, I put them in a kind of similar vein to the New Jersey Devils. They're probably different places in their restructuring or rebuilding, whatever you want to call it.

But they're another team that I can't stop watching because I was, I thought there is zero chance. I just thought it was going to be Detroit, Chicago, which team will fall furthest fastest in that central division? And here are the Blackhawks. I think they're 6-2-2 and 2. I got my notes here. Yes, 6-2 and 2 in their last 10 games. Patrick Kane, 22 points in 17 games. And once again, proving my own ignorance, I look at that Black Hawk lineup.

I'm like, I don't know who that is. I don't know who that kid is. You got to read more Scott Powers than Mark Lazarus. I'm being a bit facetious here. But, you know, like the, you know, I think of Pia Souter, who is off to a terrific start there. He's got 10.6 goals. Let's see. Philip Kourashev.

There's another kid. And Nicholas Bodan on the back end has been terrific there. I saw the other night. He had like twice the power play time that Duncan Keith did on the back end. And there's so much fun to watch. And of course, the kid in that Kevin Lankan has been outstanding 925C, 8%. To me, I think of Patrick Kane kind of like Artemi Panera in the Rangers a year ago. If the Blackhawks, if they find their way into that top four in the central, and that's, that's a tough road to go. That's a very deep, interesting division now because of the Florida Panthers. You've got Carolina, who's the real deal, I think, Columbus, Dallas. If they get there, though, I'm with you on this. I think Patrick Kane is definitely going to be in the Hart Trophy conversation. And how good for Stan Bowman and the Blackhawks after, because they've taken some kicking in the last.

couple of years about where they are in terms of their revolution. Yeah, no, no question. And, you know, I'm going back to Souter, the rookie for the hawks. You know, you know that I love this debate, but you know, he's going to be 25 in May. So he's, there's going to be this fake rookie thing here with it, right? Like, he played pro hockey in Switzerland. You know how I feel about this. I don't like when 25-year-olds get compared to 18 and 19-year-olds in the Calder race.

This is setting up beautifully for me. Do you remember the first guy? Do you remember you and I have been doing this so long now? Do you remember the first time we had this argument? Do you remember the player? And I was all for him. Chris Osgood. Not Chris Osgood.

Sorry. Jimmy Howard, who I believe played like, he played four years in the H.L. And I think it came in in his first full year. There was a lot of discussion about, you know, it was terrific for the Red Wings. And it was Jimmy Howard. And I remember having this conversation? were like, no, too old. I'm not on for that. I think they should bring the age down. I think, I think it should be either 23 or 22 and under for the caller. Because you're comparing apples and

oranges. And listen, great for this guy for for doing as well as he is. And it is his first year in the NHL. He is an NHL rookie. But he's played pro hockey. And, you know, he's 24 going on 25. then we're comparing him to 18, 19, and 20-year-olds. I just don't think it's fair. So I'm going to leave that out there. All right. Once again. All right.

Before we go to our first. Wouldn't be fun if I could run the league for a year? I thought you did. I mean, I may run the league into the ground, but it would be fun along the way. Only if you bring me along, my friend. Only if I get to get to be your assistant for the year. That's it. We go to that place in lower Manhattan with the shuffleboard table, Nancy Whiskey.

There's just a few stories in that place. Oh, my gosh. That's a whole chapter. There's a whole chapter in your book on Nancy Whiskey in that shuffleboard table. All right, before we get to Doug Armstrong in our first break, listen, as always, you and I've known Katie String for a long time, of course, worked alongside Katie at ESPN and now, of course, here at the Athletic. And her work is exemplary.

It is she is without parallel. in the business in all of in all of sports report not just the hockey world so and her piece on the arizona coyotes a lot of questions about their financial dealings a lot of questions about ownership the culture there um you know it was interesting we had chained don't on a couple weeks ago and he alluded to it listen we've done a lot of things um you know over the years as an organization that they've been hard for fans in that community and and katie shone a really bright light on some troubling elements of how that business gets done. And I think it's going to be interesting to see if there's some response from the league, just how this plays out.

And I wonder what you made of Katie's piece. Yeah, and just she's such a courageous journalist. Like the topics that she takes on, you think about the sexual abuse stories that she's taken on in different sports and the societal change. Yeah, and the societal change that she has literally brought on because of her work. I mean, she's an absolute rock star. You know, when it comes to the coyotes, you know, one of the things that you just hope so much for, you know, for ownership in that place is that there's so much to cheer for in terms of what he represents, right? I mean, first Hispanic owner in ancient history and all these other things. And those are still hopes, but clearly a learning curve there.

and some missteps and you hope a page being turned because it's pretty troubling what Katie had in their article. And you mentioned Shane Don, that to me is the great hope. They just brought this guy in recently. He's the number one brand there is in the history of hockey in the desert. He treats people incredibly well, just to the great human being. And, you know, his presence in that organization, I think, comes at a great time. Yeah.

Well, listen, I've often been accused of being a Pollyanna, but, you know, sometimes and, you know, I thought the response from the coyotes in their statement was, was disappointing and laughable. But, you know, sometimes it takes a harsh, bright light being shone on any kind of organization to affect meaningful change. And, you know, you hope that this is a case. You hope the NHL is paying attention to some of the reporting in case. Katie's piece. And you're right. I mean, see where this goes. But important work is always by Katie. And I'm really proud that she's my friend and my colleague. And as you know, and she's going to be on the Thursday hockey show. So maybe she'll listen to this. But she did in fact give me one of the greatest Christmas birthday gifts of all time during a Stanley Cup playoff run in Pittsburgh. And an actual bowl of pepperoni in a styrofoam takeaway container with. the candle in it. One of the most memorable birthdays. I was there. And I'm just happy that none of those pepperoni sticks ended up in my shoes like you were want to do sometimes. I know. These were all

cut up. So anyway, good work for Katie on that. As always. As promised, Doug Armstrong, general manager of the St. Louis Blues and the headman with Team Canada, Beijing 2022, joining us. Doug, this is not your first time on the show. So I'm glad you were glad that we did not spoil it for you. when we've had you on in the past and that you're willing to come back on. So good for you for putting up with this again. I always enjoy talking to you guys. So thanks for having me on. I was going to say,

are you ready for game eight against Arizona? Or is it a series over? Is it 72 Summit Series or are you moving on from the Coyotes? No, we've moved on. We've moved on. It's actually a really interesting quirk in our schedule now with these makeup games. I was talking to our coaches today. we have 14 out of our next 16 against San Jose, L.A., and Anaheim.

So, and then we have 17 of our last 20 against three teams. So it's a crazy season. Well, Doug, I got to tell you, I watched, I wouldn't say every minute of every one of the seven games, but it was pretty darn close. And I have to tell you, I thought it was compelling hockey for a lot of it. I know you didn't like how Game 7 turned out, and luckily it wasn't an actual playoff series. But I wonder as a GM and watching your team in the midst of something that was so unique, were there things that surprised you about it? Were there things that you liked about it that maybe you didn't think you would?

Or at the end of it, you're like, oh, my God, I hope we never have to do that again. What was that process like from your perspective? No, I actually enjoyed it. It felt a lot like a playoff series where, you know, quite honestly. Honestly, we don't know a lot about Arizona. We play them X amount of times in the season, and we've been trying to be competitive as they've been going through, you know, they're rebuilding, retrans, whatever the term is they were doing.

So you don't really dig into that closely. You know their players, but you really don't know them. But certainly I came out of that seven games when you watch them every night with a much greater respect. A, I think they got one of the top coaches in the game right now. I think Rick Tocke does a fabulous job of keeping. keeping those guys organized. They play with passion.

They play with intensity. Connor Garland is a player that, you know, you think you know, but then you watch him for seven games. And I thought he was, you know, night and night out, one of the best players on the ice. So you get to learn things about different players. And, you know, Clayton Keller is a St. Louis product. You know, the maturation of a young player.

Now he's in his, you know, now he's just entering the start of his real career, you know, where he understands the league, his body's mature, and I really think they have some good young pieces there, and I enjoyed the process of going through it. You know, we were, as a series along, we started to lose more and more players, which, you know, I thought sort of leveled the playing field as far as, you know, how it was going to play out.

So I really enjoyed it. I thought it was a fun series. I really like what Arizona's got going on with some of the young players. I'm so much with you and Connor Garland, by the way. He jumps out at me all the time. And unfortunately for you, Doug, he's American. So.

Yeah. I'm not going to lie to it. I'm not going to lie to you. I have to look that up. Well, it brings me to my next player I wanted to talk to you about. And this guy is Canadian. And that's Jordan Kairu. And I wonder, it must be interesting, given your dual portfolio between the Canadian Olympic team GM and obviously the blues.

You're so invested in Jordan Kairu. who is a young blues player. And every time I'm watching your games, he's just jumping off the screen at me so far this year. But I'm in all seriousness. I mean, when you watch this kid play, how much of it is the blues lens and how much of it is the, you know,

he's still massaging that long list for Team Canada. I mean, he's been impressive. Yeah, I think what I do, Pierre, is I did bring his name up to the guys just in the sense that, you know, I'm probably too close to the fire. So I said, just keep an eye on. And he got off to a great 10-game start.

Can he maintain this? If he maintains this, is he someone we have, we could have interest in. And I go back to 2010 with a young Drew Dowdy, you know, a player that played one year in the league. I was fortunate enough to be the manager of the World Championship team that he made as a 19-year-old. We weren't really sure, you know,

do you take him to the world? Is it too much for him? He went there, was one of the best players. and then parlayed that into an Olympic roster spot in 2010. So there are going to be young players. I watch at Byram the last couple of nights against Vegas. There's going to be young players that grab our attention that we're not ready for. And it would be great for Jordan and great for me personally with my day job if he was one of those guys.

I'm curious how the process works for you. You're from right now. I don't know when the actual tournament starts. I know the Beijing games will be underway. Maybe the actual tournament is coming up in a year and a day or two. But with your management team, and of course, you've got Kenny Holland, you got Ron Francis, you got Don Sweeney, Roberto Luongo, got such a fascinating ad, I think, to your group. Do you have a board already in your office in St. Louis?

Is there a team Canada board and you've got names on it? How do you start to organize your thoughts on what that, and I think we're sort of imagining a 25-man roster, if I'm not mistaken, but how you start to organize that process with your team in putting some sort of structure to it? Well, what we did is this actually started back when the CBA was ratified. Tom Rennie understood that the NHL and the NHLPA made this a priority go to Beijing. And so he put a group together that if it does happen this way, you know, we want to be prepared. So this started prior to the bubble. And there was, we brought Roberto Juan after the, after the playoffs. But before that, the four Ronnie, Donnie, Kenny and I had some meetings.

We put together actually two teams. Each guy had to put together two teams. Then we sort of melded that together. And who is the majority? Who did everybody have? who did most guys have and who were sort of the outliers that only one of us had. Then we add that into the mix and then we started to watch the playoffs. We had a meeting after round one, after round two, and after the finals.

Then we had everybody put another team together. And now we've broken the season up into quarters and we just had our first meeting again to, we're getting closer to the point now where we're trying to take that long list to a shorter list. You can't focus in on 55 or 60 players all year long. You have to start making decisions, and guys are going to pop in and out. But I think right now we have a majority where we probably have, I think it's 10 or 11 locks on the team,

and that leaves up 15 to 14, 15 players that are in contention. And there's probably 50 guys are on that list still. So it's just a whittling down process. And it's more of, you want, want it, you want to add guys to the locks and then remove guys that are no longer in consideration and hope that list gets smaller and smaller. You know, I don't know if this is, it makes it, there's nothing easy about putting together the Canadian Olympic team, but I was thinking, I mean, because I put my own team

together a couple weeks ago, Doug, and one thing that astounded me by the end of the process was that I think I only had four holdovers from Sochi, which isn't entirely surprising. It was eight years ago or seven, but it will be. years ago when you go to Beijing. But I'm wondering if it's a bit freeing in a way that you're not really beholden to that many players that, you know, I mean, that era of that team between the Vancouver Olympics, Sochi and the 2016 World Cup that you were in charge of. And they just ran the table.

And but enough time has passed where, and I'm not saying this has happened in the past, Doug, but, you know, I think, you know, I think to the can of winning in Salt Lake than winning the old four. World Cup and then feeling, I think, beholden to some players going into Terino, you're really not beholden to anyone almost. You know, maybe obviously, I think Sidney Crosby's in the mix, but I'm just saying that it's such a new generation of wave of talent that it's almost like you're starting in you. Is that fair?

Yeah, I think that's very fair. I would say that, you know, each year you have, you want to have some of those experienced guys from the previous event because we didn't go in 20. 2018, you know, we're going to be looking to the guys, a couple of guys from 2010, a couple from 2014, but there is going to be a whole new wave of guys in there. And I sort of look at it as who played for their national teams between, say, 2010 and 2016, 2017 at the World Juniors, that's likely the majority of your group coming out of there. And then you take it to the next phase, who are the good teams in that time frame? They're likely to be the good teams here.

and a team like the Americans, they really started to feel the fruits of their labor from their program during that time frame. And I think that that's a group that we're going to have to look at. But getting back to the original question, yeah, there's going to be turnover. A lot of the guys that may have participated, quite honestly, in 2016 for their national teams

and from North America, we're part of the Young Guns team. And so that might have been their first four into this. So a lot of the guys that are going to wear the Canadian Jersey are going to have to have to go back to likely their world junior days. And then obviously some of these guys might have played in the world championships if their teams were eliminated early enough. But on a stage this large, it's going to be a brand new group.

Or not a totally brand new group, but the majority of the guys will be new. I'm curious, Doug, your experience in Pierre alluded to it. You put together the winning entry in 2016, the World Cup of hockey. It was sort of a different thing because of the Young Guns squad, but you also have experiences being part of the management team in 2010 and 2014. And is there a way to describe how being the GM of the Olympic team is going to be different for you than being the GM of Team Canada at the World Cup of hockey? What kind of challenges are different do you think? Or is it much the same? No, I think the difference is in the World Cup, you had a training camp.

So you got to know the guys off the ice. We went to Ottawa. We had a couple exhibition games. Then you go to Toronto. So you're actually moving around. It's much more like an NHL. We started in Ottawa, went to Pittsburgh, you know, then went into Toronto for the tournament. It was more like a, maybe not an NHL, but more like a world championship field to it, that you got to grow.

I think when you get to the Olympics, there's no growing. You get there, you're there for probably a total of, let's say, a little over a couple of weeks and it's over. So there's not a big feeling out process. And the interesting part, quite honestly, going to Soshe, was Bob Ganey, I worked for, and he went to the first Olympics, and Team Canada had their own plane. They had meetings. When we went to Sosci, you know, we were traveling with players and managers and coaches and trainers from every other country, sort of based on where you were coming from in North America.

So you don't really get together until you get to Sosia with the exact team. you're allowed to have, before you were allowed to have a summer camp, but not everyone at that summer camp was part of the team. You know, it was still, it was sort of your mid-list, not your long list, but not your final list. So when you get to the Olympics itself, it's, you just have to hit the ground running and the preparation that the coaching staff has to do is paramount to getting off to a good start. the ice surface in Beijing as a double HF confirmed to me is going to be NHL size as of course you know

and is that should we not make that too big of a deal Doug I mean let's put it this way maybe it's not that big a deal because it's what you're used to it's a bigger deal in sochi when clearly as as both Steve Eisenman Mike Babcock talked about at the time that was a big deal for you guys I mean you brought in Ralph Kruger I nickn't and Dr. Big Ice and Sochi, but, you know, to help prepare for Sochi. And it was clear in the way I thought Team Canada played Doug and Sochi that it was sort of the keepaway style. It was just surgical.

I thought the way Team Canada won that gold medal. But I also thought it was influenced by the big ice. And so going back to the ice that you guys know, how important is that? Well, I think that they did a great job in 2014, Ralph and Mike, you know, understanding that you can't chase into the corners. You have to allow players to play on the perimeter. You know, what teams want to do on the big ice is obviously have you chase, and that opens up space and scoring opportunities where the North American game is condensed

and you can attack quicker. But when you look at it, the players involved, the majority of the players that play are playing on NHL ice anyways. So I think everybody's sort of in the same boat. I think it's what is not as important is to have a coach that knows the coaches from the other teams as much on how they coach on the big ice because they're going to have to adjust to playing on smaller ice more than us adjusting our style to bigger ice. But from the players' perspective, they're all North American,

so I don't think there's an advantage to any one country because even the Swedes and the Finns and the Russians, a lot of the players are going to be very used to the surface. Doug, we've talked a lot and we will until the final roster is announced about sort of the new wave of what Team Canada will look like. I think about the coaching staff and I wonder if there's the same kind of mentality, you know, again, because we're going to be eight years removed from NHL participation in Sochi and Beijing, when you and your group are talking about potential coaching candidates and what that coaching staff will look like, is there a theme? Is there a personality you want? Can you describe what that process is like? And if you'd like to, maybe you'd just like to tell us who your coaches are going to be. Thank you.

You're the first person to ask them. I always want to tell people. All right. Well, this is the perfect forum. Just let her out. I'm sure Tom Rainey-on-on-Kan, I would love that if you drop that on our podcast. That'd be great. No, I think when we look at our coaches, you're going to, sort of like the players,

you're going to look at the coaches that have done well at the NHL level over the last two or three years. also, you know, player, you know, you don't have to have a relationship with star players, not a personal relationship, but coaching star players, but they're a different animal. And you have to be able to deliver, you know, a hard message to a star player that's used to playing, say, on the back end, 25 to 28 minutes a night telling me you need, you know, 19 to 21 or forward that's used to play, you know, 23 or 24 minutes that all we need is 18. And then you also want to make sure, like some people are wired certain ways. And I think some people are wired to be head coaches.

And some people that are head coaches can also adjust into assistant coach or support role. So I think what we want to do is find the proper head coach number one. And then talk to him about what he thinks he needs to round out, you know, to round out whatever his shortcomings are to make sure we have a good staff. And the other thing, too, that I learned from Mike. and the people he put together and then Steve on the management side is you have to be,

get uncomfortable in the sense that you have to be willing to talk about things that you hold near and dear to your heart every other day of your career, of not talking about your team, not talking about the small things you two to try and get better because you want, that's an advantage to you in the NHL. But everyone has to share everything

if you want to win, you want to win on the international level, and you need people that are willing to be open for the betterment of hockey Canada and the Canadian Olympic team. And I think you said, Doug, on your first media availability that probably after the playoffs, it would be the window of naming your coaching staff. Yeah, just because of the way things have gone with the late start of the season, even for myself, like a manager is much different than a head coach.

We're trying to see things from 30,000 feet. and so we can we can do a multitask in the sense but i think if if you were to name a head coach let's say in the first or second of week of may that that's a prestigious job in canada and that guy's playing in the playoffs you're going to you know he you don't you don't want his ownership group that's allowing him to go to regret allowing someone to work for their country by not being focused on their day jobs so our thought would be that we won't do anything until the playoffs are over. Now things can change. That's, you know, the best laid's plans of mice and men. But right now, I don't think there's any, there's any rush to name a coach because we don't, you know,

A, there's not 100% guarantee that we're going. And we don't need to pick the coach's brains yet on the roster. What Steve did, I thought, a great job of soliciting from, whether it was Peter Schirelli or Kevin Lowe or Kenny or myself, is you probably get 22 of the 20. are pretty well locked. Everybody's in, and then you have maybe six or seven guys for the last three spots, and you really want the coach's thought process on, okay, how does this guy fit into what you're looking at? Is it a special, not a specialist, but can he accent our power player, a penalty kill,

or a face off on a special, not a specialist, but again, someone that can, you know, go there with a real, a real good purpose. So you really need the coach's input. We would like the coach's input as we get to that part of our roster. where there's really hard decisions to make. You're obviously planning to be busy well into the summer with the blues as we wrap things up, at least from my end. We'll see what Scotty has for you.

But, you know, I was thinking another player I wanted to ask you about is Justin Falk on your team, Doug, who is, you know, playing terrifically. And I'll just say it for what it is. I felt at times he looked lost a bit last year in his first year trying to find his way. And, you know, obviously with Alex Petra. Angel leaving to free agency, I think it created an actual void for him to find himself on the right side there. What are your thoughts on him this year? Yeah, I would say that we didn't create the easiest environment for him. You know, in all reality, we brought another right shot defensive man to

plus a team that had to go right shot defenseman and Petcherangelo and Perenko. You know, it just all litigied that it's surprising how easy it is for a guy on the left to go to the right and how I don't want to say it's not as easy it just doesn't happen as much for a guy on the right have to go to the left and you know we we put Alex over there for a while put Justin over there for a while we put Colton over there I think this year a knowing that he's one of two top right defensemen a comfort level that came in here and and he's a he's a true professional he's got huge pride and he wanted to come back in and show that he reward the team that traded for him and paid him, and I think he's done a hell of a job for us.

I had two quick questions before we let you go, Doug. You alluded to in the past where Olympic teams have had an opportunity to have an orientation camp. I know the rules have changed over the years of whether you can get on the ice or just play some ball hockey, which I think was what the – that was Mike Babcock's thing leading up to the So-T, Is that still a possibility? Are you still hopeful that you might be able to have some sort of gathering, all things being equal with vaccines and COVID, or is it too soon to know on that end?

Well, I think that's not going to be a hockey Canada decision. That's going to be an NHL, NHLPA decision. We're lucky that we have Scotty Sam and on our staff. It's probably as important as anyone who works for hockey Canada. He'll be working with the COC and the double I. and the league to decide what we can and can't do. We obviously, I don't see, I don't envision not being able to get together at some point because there's so many rules when you're going to the Olympics that you have to go over

with the players. Now, whether it's on ice, ball hockey or softball tournament or a card game, I'm not sure what we're going to bring them in for except is you'd love to get together and share information and let them know the process moving forward. and we're hoping that the NHL PA and the NHL can get to the point with the international people that they need to talk to to put this in cement that we're going and then we can take that next step on planning. And finally, before we let you go, we talk to players often about the potential return to the Olympics after missing in South Korea in 2018. I wonder what it's like for you. And when you talk to your management team and you think about your roster,

and what may happen a year from now. What's the level of excitement for you? What's it like when you envision walking back onto that Olympic stage in Beijing in a year? What's it like for you, that kind of level of excitement? Well, I'm obviously very excited to be part of it. And I got really going to associate different from Vancouver. Vancouver, we stayed at a hotel downtown. We had access to the village, but we weren't in the village all the time as management.

The coaches were. But in Soshe, just the way it was set up, we were inside the village. And I really realized what a small part team, the hockey, was of the Olympic process. And that's what I really enjoyed, you know, going to the, whether it was with other people, or just by yourself and going to the cafeteria, and you'd see people from all other sports. And the way that the hockey players that are multi-millionaires, were vastly interested in what the speed skaters were doing or what the curlers were doing. You know, it was just amazing.

And so I'm excited to be like in the NHL, in our little cocoon, you know, we are the big fish in the pond. There you're just another fish in a much bigger pond. And it's refreshing to see that why everyone is there. And that's just for the love of sport. Good stuff. Doug, that was outstanding. It's always great to have you. Pierre, do you want a final thought?

You want to trot on me on this part of it here? No, no, I gave you the last word, Scotty. I don't want to bruise your ego again. It's all good. Anyway, Doug, thanks for coming to hang out with us, and it probably won't be the last time that we impose on you. But good luck to you in the Blues, and I'm kind of sad that we won't see any Blues Coyote's games for a little while,

maybe in the playoffs, but thanks for coming to hang out with us. It's always terrific to catch up, and stay safe, stay healthy and we'll talk down the road. All right. We'll circle April 17th for game eight of that series. You guys take care. I really appreciate you having me on, guys. Stay safe too.

Well, thanks for letting me have the last word there, pal. I appreciate that. But no, I get excited. I don't know how you feel about it. And we've been talking about it quite a bit because it's, you know, we're at that one year mark and things are going to go very quickly, right? I mean, that time is going to evaporate. But it's exciting to hear Doug Armstrong talk about the process.

And I was fascinated even, you know, sort of the structure that they're already, you know, each person delivering a roster. You meld them together. What are the constants? Who are the outliers? I, you know, I never get tired of these kinds of discussions because it, it's so fascinating, especially with Team Canada, to see how you get down to that final number. And, you know, there's, there, as we often talk about, you could probably put two or three teams together, but there's only one going to Beijing. And it's going to be fun to see who ends up on that final roster. Yeah, two things that stood out to me in terms of him dropping a couple of nuggets on us from the process.

And, you know, one is that he feels that their management group has about 10 or 11 locks right now. Interesting. You know, it is a year out, but I think we could probably come up with a version. of that 10 to 11 locks. Number two is his answer is Jordan Kairu, who is a young guy, you know, obviously a long shot at this point, but clearly on the radar of Team Canada. And his answer on what to do with that when you're also, it's easier a player on your team.

And what he said did, right? Interestingly, he said he asked the other guy as the management committee to really keep an eye on him because he's just too close to it. So I find that really fascinating. And that's sort of been the history, going back to Eisenman and Wayne Gretzky before Steve Eisenman on how they try to sort of check their ego at the door when they put these teams together and make sure they get to the right solution as a group. It's just fascinating. Yeah. And I think, you know, I think that's going to be the great part of it.

And it's not just Team Canada. But which of those young players, Jordan Kair is a great example? any of those players that, you know, that maybe are going to shoulder their way into a discussion and whether it's for Team USA or Russia or Finland or whatever, I think that's going to be, you know, the fascinating part. And the interesting part, of course, you know, as Doug alluded to, not naming a coaching staff till after the playoffs, which makes sense. But there will be players who assert themselves during the playoffs, I think.

And I'm sure that management team and all the other Federation management teams will be looking because that's a critical part of, you know, playing under pressure and all those kinds of things. But, yeah, it's going to be, it's going to be trade. I always think that, you know, this adds another layer to the playoffs in an Olympic year, right, leading up to the Olympics, the playoffs and the World Championships. There's always an added level of pressure because, you know, people are watching you. And you and I have done stories back at ESPN, you know, dark horses, players who might be playing their way on to an Olympic roster. Jamie Ben, I think is probably the perfect example, right, going into 2014. If I'm not mistaken, not invited to the orientation camp, but played his way onto that roster and was a force in Sochi. Yeah, you know, ended up having as prominent a role as he would have liked, I'm sure, in Sochi.

But he still made the team. And I think a great example of what he just talked about. All right, we're going to take a break. We're going to come back and go into some reader, listener questions. Have we sold the Ask the Dorks segment? Because I don't want to use it if we're going to sell it to a potential sponsor or advertiser. All right, my friend. We've got lots of nice responses here.

It's good that Jeff edits out the ones, Why Are You an Idiot? I got one during my mailbag last week. Why are you such a blow heart? I just assumed it was you who'd written it in. So I didn't. Those are easy ones to answer because I was born that way. I don't know what else is telling you. Come on people.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it is what it is. This one comes from Thai crane. And it's sort of, I know it strikes at something close to your heart, which is the three point for a win and regulation. But he asked, Ty asked, what would happen to the league if they were to get away from the point system altogether and go straight wins and losses, like a standing system like in MLB? So you're games behind and stuff like that. Do you like that idea? Do you ever think, let me ask it in a different way? Because my sense is the NHL is not really, they don't have a huge appetite to change the scoring system.

But I think it's interesting to discuss. Yeah. And as you know, Scott, I've written this new. numerous times over the years and eventually got the message from Gary Benman to stop writing it because he wasn't going to change his mind. But I don't like the loser point and the artificial impact that has on the parody of the standings. First of all, I think the league has amazing parity in reality with the talent being spread among 31, soon to be 32 teams. That I don't feel like you need to further artificially insulate that. And so I would either get rid of the loser point or go to a 321 system or three points for a win in 60 minutes so that the cream of the crop does get a chance to rise a bit above the freight. But I've written that so many times.

It's just it's a complete, it's not going anywhere. The leaves just doesn't want to hear about it. But just for some historical context for our younger listeners who may not know this. But part of the reason why the loser point is really entrenched. is when the GMs voted yes on the advent of the shootout back in 2005 ahead of the 0505 season. And remember, that was part of a pretty big remake of the game, right? I mean, got rid of the red line for offside, cracked down on obstruction. It was part of all these rules that changed the game coming out of 0405 in the year-long lockout.

But when the owners and the GMs voted yes to the shootout, It came with a very important caveat that was written in, which is that there had to be a loser point. The managers would not have supported the shootout if it meant zero points in the standings by losing a skills event. So it's always important to peel back the onion when you wonder why some of these things are there. But if you're ever going to go to zero points to losing an overtime or a shootout, essentially what I'm saying is I think the managers will get rid of the shootout. I'm with you on them. Okay, this one comes from Cause at CauseGriff Empire, clearly a Washington Capitals fan who wants to know, will the caps find any semblance of a defense this season? That's a little bit. They're coming off a huge win over Pittsburgh, but it is interesting and maybe we'll broaden the question a little bit.

As we speak today, my friend, Washington, Pittsburgh, they're also tied with San Jose, at 3.57 goals allowed per game. So they're tied for 27th, those three teams. It's hard to imagine that if you're 27th or thereabouts in goals allowed per game, that you can get to the playoffs. But maybe that's just the way this season is going to be. But I wonder if you are, is that just a function of, you know, Peter Lavillette, new coach. You've had some, you know, Demetri Orloff, COVID restrictions unable to play for a bunch of games. You've got Justin Schultz who missed some games with the puck to the face. Who's been, for me, I think he's been outstanding there.

but do you think the caps get it better, get it together more defensively as time goes on? Well, I think even just having Samsonoff and goal after he missed some time, obviously in the COVID list will help in itself. But yeah, they've got to be way better defensively. And, you know, perhaps even though they're right at the cap, that's the area where Brian McCullough and the GM looks to address before the April 12th trade deadline too. He's certainly never been scared to do that. But yeah, you're not going anywhere with that kind of defensive play. But again, short camp, new coaching staff, lots of excuses that you can build in for why it's a work in progress. But I think it's also reality.

All right. One final one here from I recognize this name, Jeremy K. Gover at Gover time. Presence in the Nashville hockey circles. Gentlemen, greetings from icy Nashville. His question is about Matthias Ekholm, whose name has come up as possible trade chip for the Predators. A very difficult start for them this year. I know our guy Adam Vingen looked at some of the potential trade chips that David Poil might be looking at as we approach the April 12th trade deadline. Preds always, the defense has been their strength for centuries.

And yet, do you see that as a position from which they could do? deal from strength by moving a piece or two from that blue line. It does look at this stage that they will be on the seller side of things unless they can turn things around very quickly. What do you make of Matthias Ackholm and the Predators? Yeah, so I brought up Beckholm's name on insider trading actually Tuesday night. Nice. And that was really from the vantage point that I think it's a possibility. I don't think it's a certainty. But I think part of what's going to happen here is Nashville tries to remake itself. And it's incredibly disappointing start to the year for sure.

And a lot of disappointment in some of their key players, I think. The thing about Eckholm is he's probably the last guy you want to move, but that's also why he's the guy that would probably garner the most interest. Number one, doesn't have any no trade protection. He's got a year and a half left on his deal, 3.75 million cap it, which is incredibly engaging for a top four defenseman. I know when I talked to other teams yesterday, sort of betting this idea, I mean, they were salivating at the idea of Nashville putting him out there.

You know, the predators have to think ahead to Seattle's match and draft. And Romaniosi has to be protected. He would be in a way. He's their best defenseman. Ryan Ellis. And then, you know, the decision, if you're going 7-3-1 on your protection list, is that the young Dante Fabro or is it Mateo Sequel? Probably going to have to be Fabro.

you can only protect them three defensivemen. Now, last time, in the Vegas expansive draft, they protected four defensemen. As you know, they went the eight skater route. But I think that's why all these things kind of line up to the potential of listening on Echo. Again, it doesn't mean that they'll move them. But if you look at some top four defensemen that had been dealt the last few years that had a year and a half left on their deals, like this is the new,

this is the more sought after commodity now at the trade deadline than the rental player, right? The guy that is guaranteed to give you two playoff runs, not just one. And Jake Muzin went for a first and a prospect, and he got traded from L.A. to Toronto. Alec Martinez went for two second rounders. He went from L.A. to Vegas. Those two players similarly had a year and a half left on their deal. So, you know, if you're David Poil and the Predators, it's time to replenish, I think. can you get a first and a young player for

Mateus Eccolm, I think you have to think about it. I mean, again, with Seattle expansion draft in there, I think you at least have to put them out there, see what's there, and if you don't think that, you know, people are willing to pay a good enough price, then you bring them back. But I think they have to think about it. Before we close up, is there anything sadder

than the prospect of returning to normal, being able to go out on the road, going to see games, being in arenas, and not having Nashville in the playoffs or being relevant? I mean, it may be certainly top three, I think. If you pulled all the NHL writers, man, it's sad to see Nashville in this period of decline because there's no better place to get to Nashville. You know, I can drive there in like four hours and a bit. So there you go. I think you're going to start crying. Well, I'm okay now. I'm okay.

All right. My friend, that was outstanding. Of course, it's not just two man advantage, although it feels like that to me. There is only two man advantage. But you should also check out this week with the Minnesota Wilde recently overcoming their COVID-19 outbreak. Mike Russo talks management of the virus with Dr. Bill Maurice on straight from the source this week. Ian Mendez, Haley Salve, and Sean McIndoe, as we often say, the bread to the pod sandwich, that is the athletic hockey show on Mondays and Thursdays. Steve Dangle and Katie Strang on this week, so don't miss that.

And celebrating Black History Month, L.A. King's Blake Bolden, the first black female NHL. Scout joins Craig Custin's on the full 60 at The Athletic. How about this? Check out our comments section for each podcast episode at the athletic app and rate and subscribe The Athletic Show on Apple. You aren't already a subscriber. Go to theathletic.com slash hockey show and receive a subscription for just $3.99 per month. my friend

fine fine work by you today excellent work I want to I just want to you know that you should be very proud of your work here today it's at least top 50 in my history of podcast that's not bad just does that

just before we close you remember you were on a podcast I think Craig was with this and you described a goalie as being top 20 or something I can't even remember who was you. Craig started laughing so hard at that. Yeah, I know.

He's a top 20 goalie. Craig and I were like, well, that's not, they're only 30 teams or whatever it was at the time. It was like, okay, so does that mean he's not good or not? But anyway, top 50, I'll take it, my friend. They're not all gems, okay? Yeah, yeah, yeah. This was a gem, I think.

Good for you. Braddle, right on.