The Athletic Hockey Show - Dylan Larkin's Detroit Red Wings playing meaningful games in December, NHL officiating issues, Bruce Boudreau wins in his debut with the Vancouver Canucks and more.

Episode Date: December 7, 2021

Max Bultman who covers the Red Wings returns to fill in for Craig Custance and co-host the American's edition of the Athletic Hockey Show along with Sean Gentille.Dylan Larkin, the Captain of the Detroit Red Wings joins the boys to discuss the surprising start to the season for the winged wheel, the contributions from youngsters Lucas Raymond, Moritz Seider, Pius Suter and Alex Nedeljkovic and how much fun it is to go to the rink now,On the heels of Bruce Boudreau's successful debut in Vancouver Monday night, Sean and Max ask, is the recipe for having ownership answer fans complaints, throwing a team jersey on the ice?Plus the guys discuss the ongoing officiating issues in the NHL, the Philadelphia Flyers losers of nine straight and the New York Islanders who are winless in their new rink, and have lost 11 straight. games and how it is time to take the New York Rangers and Pittsburgh Penguins seriously.Gentille and Bultman profess their love for the EBUG, and stick tap Tyler Johnson who joins Jack Eichel as NHL players who have had artificial disk replacement surgery.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Good evening. Welcome to another episode of the Tuesday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. This is the Americans version. Craig Custin's gone again. Can you believe it? Max Boltman here again. Can you believe it? He is indeed, as Craig and I always say, the most like man in hockey, the nicest guy on staff, my best friend. Maxie, how you doing, buddy? I'm sorry, I think I'm in the wrong place. I thought this was the athletic college football playoff preview. It was a big weekend for you, buddy. It was really fun.

Where did you, where did you watch the, the, uh, the Little Sears Arena Press Box? Oh God, yeah, I didn't even think of that. And, uh, that's where I'll be watching the playoff from too because they play a 730 game on New Year's. Oh, I thought, I, I heard maybe you were thinking about, about going down there for, for the game.

Did I get bad information? No, you didn't get bad information. The thought crossed my mind, but at some point, $800 tickets and having to take PTO to do it, they just add. Potentially drive from Detroit to Miami. They wear you down on that. It's another kind of Michigan-centric show here for you and I, and it makes sense because you're the Red Wings Beat Rider, all that fun stuff. But our guest today is Dylan Larkin.

Another Michigan man. he's the captain of the Red Wings, obviously, having a pretty damn good season. And they are, buddy, are they for real? I woke up yesterday and, you know, and do an interview prep. And like, I'd known they won five in a row,

but you look at where they are in that division. You look at where the metro is, where it seems like it's going to be four teams only. I don't want to say they're in a driver spot, or a pole position for a playoff spot. But I mean, they're playing relevant hockey. And it's the Red Wings. And it's December 7th now.

That's wild. Were you expecting that? I think I know how you're going to answer this. No. I mean, I basically wrote the O bit after the four-game losing streak. They went on the road and lost four straight. And I wrote, you know, the shine is off. And it looks like they're heading for, you know, a more familiar year like last year,

which was not, you know, nearly a. as bad as the one that I think people will remember from two years ago. But I was, okay, like they've come back down to Earth. That's that. They come home. They show up and they win five straight, including one at Boston. Now, Boston was without Brad Marchand for that game. So that's a relevant factor for sure.

But yeah, like, you know, it's one of the things about the Red Wings this year that has stood out to me is they don't let it spiral like the team two years ago did. And they do find ways to win without playing their best game. Where does that lead them? I think, you know, lots still to be determined there. It's still only the first week of December. But it is a part of the kind of the makeup of this team that, you know, that they haven't folded at times when you expect them to.

You know what I mean? Is there something they've done like over the course of this last five games that, you know, what is the difference? I know you said if they folded up, obviously we've seen it happen a lot over the last over the last couple years, but what's, what part of their game has changed in that way? You know, the first thing that comes to mind is I think they're defending better than they had over the losing streak. Like they really kind of got a little loose there when they went on the road. And I don't know how much of the difference is that is, you know, you get to pick your

matchups when you're at home more so. You also, you get to ride the momentum with their crowd. And that building is a different building than it was even a couple, two, three years ago, even before the pandemic. I don't know how much of it's that. But I also believe, look at the trend in those games. And man, it's the rookies. Like Lucas Raymond scoring game winners, Moritz Sider scoring a game winner, Alex Adelkevich stealing a game.

I mean, the rookies are, we talk about them all the time. And it almost feels unfair to some of the Red Wings, more veteran players. But I really think they have made that big of a difference because some of these guys are clutch and they're breaking games open in ways you don't usually see rookies do.

And again, I want to hit the breaks there because I don't want people to think, you know, they've arrived and they're here forever. But that has been the story of the year. I mean, we have seen teams like the Sabres do this for two and a half, three months. And it gets way harder to keep up. So I think everyone should keep that in mind. But I do think that's been the difference. I mean, Dylan said himself, right? He said, like, in the past, they, you'll hear his whole interview in a little bit.

But he said, you know, they didn't quite have enough. Yeah. What's the difference? Raymond, cider, you know, Nadelcovich, he's been good for them. What's wild is that, you know, you look at their, at the analytics and they're fine. Like, they're like a mid-table team. Like, I don't know that, I don't know that they're going to be, when it's all said and done, that they're going to be in a playoff spot, but there's plenty of underlying

stuff here about them. That's pretty good. So Dylan was really good. He talked about a lot of stuff. He talked about, you know, uh, he. His time coming up with the wings and, you know, that loaded Beltyre team, which was a lot of fun. It's good stuff from him. But we do.

I mean, we, God, we have a lot of other stuff that we need to get into here. I think the first, and we're breaking tradition here because, you know, we ignore Canadian teams as much as we possibly can. But the story of the day, obviously, Bruce Boudrelle's first game with the Canucks, right? there's chance they win for nothing you look at it Canucks fans on Twitter like god dude this was just this was a release after a month of or after a month or a year or five years of just drama and confusion and angst I they had one night of uh of of of of joy last night right now it's it's funny that it came that it came because of Boudreau he kind of has that effect on people right there's there's some way he makes teams play where

they they loosen up. I mean, he's one of the best regular season coaches of all time, right? And I think that's like example A that we saw last night. Absolutely. I mean, that atmosphere, you saw the video of them chanting, Bruce, there it is. I want to know who the first person who thought of that was. Like, like, who is patient, who is patient zero for Bruce? There it is.

Show yourselves. We know you're listening. If you came up with that, you're a listener of this show, for sure, right? You know what? I think it was actually someone in tag team. They were there. It was the, it was, it was, it was the who were, they're actually huge Canucks fans. They were, they were sitting in the stands and they got it, they got it rolling. That's my, that's my hypothesis. It would be genius. I mean, you're going to get a little rebirth there

and get your, get yourself back in circulation. Did that song ever leave circulation? But it, but more, more prominent. You get some emphasis in a market. We've watched, we've watched in the, in the, in the Geico commercial 24 hours a day for the last two years. So, I mean, Jesus Christ. the other thing about the Canucks, we can, we can, this is another kind of like Canadian phenomenon because it just happened with the Canadians too. Is there any better way

to spur people on to action or to spur organizations to action than throwing your jersey on the ice? Is that like, have they cracked the code there? Like if you have a coach that you want to be fired or a GM that you want, that you want out, just throw your jersey on the ice. We saw it happen to be.

We saw it happen in Montreal. We've seen it happen over the years. There's like no better shorefire way to humiliate your team into action than doing that. It is really interesting because that has been a little bit of a theme, certainly with Montreal and Vancouver. But I almost wonder, maybe like it's not the Jersey throw itself that is causing the change. But it's the, it's almost like a barometer for where your team is at. And like it's like you ask them, okay, how bad is it? Jersey coach will get your coach fired back?

Like, okay, so if I tell you like, okay, Seattle fan throws their jersey on the ice, the change isn't happening there. But if I told you, Philly Jersey gets thrown on the ice next game, you can see Elaine Vigno getting fired the next day. Oh, that's definitely, that's definitely it. Like, whether a jersey gets thrown or not, that's just how we start referring to, like, insane, bullshit rising stretches for hockey teams.

We just call it Jersey throwing time. Like, the flyers, We're in Jersey throwing time, obviously. And they didn't even need to throw one. No, they didn't. Vino's out, Yosen, didn't change the results. They lost again last night. But my God, what a disaster that is, huh?

Like, we had to do our, I think that was, I think that was my prediction for the Flyers preseason with me and Dom was that Vino would be the first coach fired. He was so close. I know. I almost nailed it. And I took heat at the time because everyone was like. Like, oh, yeah, he's making, he's just signed, he just re-off for $5 million a year. Like, they're, they're not going to get rid of them. But my God, here it is.

Like, can you, that's the funniest part of all that, by the way. And I know they talked about us on the Monday show, but whatever. The fact that they ate through 20, 23, 24, $5 million in Vino's salary is just, that's, that's crazy. And it shows you how bad things went there. Totally. I mean, the flyers were the hot pick. coming out of the bubble year, right? Like, last year, going into the no crowd year,

like they were a popular choice for a sleeper to go, you know, a couple rounds deep in the playoffs. And I think even this year I had them in the playoffs. And, I mean, there's talent on that team. And it just flopped. I mean, they were relying, even when, even before things went way south, they were relying so heavily on Carter Hart to just bail him out.

Like, he had that stretch at the start of the month where it was like, You know, it seemed like they were turning it around, but it was, he was up over 970 in consecutive games, and then they tied another one. And then, you know, he's been inconsistent best over the course of his career. So he goes into the tank for a little bit, and that's it. And then all of a sudden the coach is out. So yeah, I don't know, man, that's a wild thing. It's funny to see these teams like them that are like, really for consecutive years.

They're like, watch out for the Flyers. We see it year after year where there's like, you know, not sleep. sleeper picks, but everyone's like, okay, this might be it. This might be it. Well, we're on, we're on year two of that not, of that not happening for them. And you were all over the, the hard thing. So I remember a couple times ago being on here, sub and you were all over the Carter Hart carrying the flyers here. But I also just look at that division as a real character and all this too, because it got, it got late fast for them just because of where they are. Like, like, they're barely under 500. But it was very late, very early.

because of that division. And I don't think that that's the reason that things went the way they did with Elaine Vigno. Like it had to happen. They had lost nine straight. That's obviously the bottom line here. But, you know, a team that makes this move is a team that ultimately still expects more of itself, right?

Like, you're not doing this because you're starting a rebuild today. You're doing because you're trying to save a season. And it got really late, really fast. I was about to dump on the Metro Division, just saying that it's, And that's not entirely true. I mean, it's really just two teams. It's Philly and the Islanders, right? Like they've been such monumental disappointments.

And we've talked about the Islanders pretty regularly here. They're 5, 10, and 5. Points percentage of 375. Still no wins in their new building on and on and on. They stink. The Flyers stink. The blue jackets are better than expected. The devils are kind of.

right where we thought they were. The Rangers are, I know we, like, we've been sort of skeptical on them because so much of their success was driven by Schisturkin early on and their five on five numbers were terrible and their goal differentials were, you know, they were, whatever. But, I mean, the proofs in the pudding with them at this point. They're 16, 4 and 3. All that stuff counts. They're playing better, even though Schisturkin's, you know, on the shelf a little bit. I think it's time to take the Rangers seriously. So if you just swap, the way I look at is you swap, the, the Rangers are where we thought the island would be, right? So the top of that division, though, it's, it's interesting because the caps are, the caps are better than we thought,

the Rangers are better than we thought. The hurricane sneakily have stunk for the last couple weeks, even though they're in third place. Um, I got to say, though, look out for the Pittsburgh Penguins. They're, they're playing, they're playing really well, man. seven, two, and one in their last 10. Crosby's getting moving. He's got 11 points in his last six games. I don't know if I don't know if people quite realize that after a really slow start this season. They, they seward the crack in last night. That to me, the fact that the penguins seem like they're going to get rolling and this can take us even back to the Red Wings, they're the fourth team in that division, right? Like they're the fourth playoff spot. Ultimately,

if you think that the Red Wings are not on par with the Bruins, which is a fair statement to make, that kind of seems like it's going to be who they're competing with for that last spot, right? It's going to come down to them and the Penguins and the Bruins. And that's a little bit of a tough sell. But it is funny. Yeah, I know, right? And it's tough because you want to sit here and say, like,

look at the Red Wings. can do it. We can make this happen, but I don't know, man. That's a, that's a tough, that's a tough sell, especially when things again are, are, are trending upward in Pittsburgh. Those are too. Jake Gensel, by the way, Jake Gensel, he's, we're going to do our, our U.S. our, our Olympic preview, our Olympic roster kind of reevaluations here. He wasn't like, he wasn't much of a question to make the first one when me, Corey Promin and Domless-Jish and did it earlier in the summer. Like, we knew he was going to be on there. But I think at this point, you got to ask the question if we, if us putting them on a fourth line was, was, was, was, was unwise. Because he's on,

he's on, he's on a goal scoring tear over the last, over the last little bit. Yeah, I mean, five in his last two games. I think it's like seven in, in the last four. And yeah, I mean, he's, he's, he's on a, he's on a scoring line. Like, there's, there's, there's no job. He's bank, he's got a, he's got a, he's got an endorsement deal with a milkshake place here. It's called the milkshake factory. It's a, it's like a local, local chain. There's, you know, whatever, three or four of them. And they do a thing where every day after he scores a goal, you get like his signature milkshake half off, right?

And I'm just, they're just, they got to just be taking such a, such a hit on those every day. There's, there's, there's milk, it's like milkshake, there's, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's milkshakes, the streets of Pittsburgh are running with milkshakes because people can't stop getting their 50% off, their $9

milkshake because Gensel keeps scoring. Yeah, spare a thought for the milkshake factory today because Jake Gensel's great and I don't think he's going to slow down either

because the penguins are red hot I think they're going to start getting when is Malcolm back? Oh, dude, I don't know. He's skating, he's working out. I think on that level it seems like he's ahead of schedule but I don't know.

It seems like I'd be stunned if we saw him before before the Olympics. That just seems like he's going to, well, I shouldn't say that. That seems like something that's going to happen like late January or early February. Get some games in before Beijing and then see him off. I don't think he's. All right.

So he's not imminent. He's not imminent. But the penguins are the battle tested team here. And I do think, especially as you size up the playoff race, you have to put them. They're a favorite in, right? I mean, I think they're tied for that spot right now, right? For the penguins for the playoffs. For the last wild part.

That's a good question. they're in fourth in the in the metro. It's so tough to suss all this out because there's still so many there's still so many different teams are such different points in their season. But yeah, the way it is right now is them and the Red Wings are both tied for the first and second wild card spot. And then you have Columbus, Columbus at third. What do you think about the Rangers staying power here?

I mean, especially the Shasturkin thing earlier this week. Man, I think I think the way they've played over the last little bit, has been, I said it a little bit before. I think I'm, I think I'm, I'm more of a believer now than I was a couple weeks ago. I don't think it's necessarily fool's school like I, like I, like I was sort of convinced. I mean, that, that, that record is just too, that's just too good, too good to ignore, right? Um, and their last, their last, their last run of games, I mean, I, the thing I, the thing I, the thing I would caution against with them is that their schedule's been soft. You know, you look at this last, at this last run they're on starting, starting in

November. Panthers, great. Blue Jackets, devils, eh, Canadians, they lose the Maple Leafs. They beat the Sabres, Islanders, they beat the Bruins on Black Friday, which was a really impressive game. I don't know what you saw that. And then it's Flyers, Sharks, and Blackhawks. So, like, they're playing well in these games, right? But I, that's not quite, not quite there yet. I think once they phase back into a tougher, a tougher portion of their schedule, you know, say like in January,

where they start going, they go west a couple times, they get the lightning a couple times. You know, I think that'll be the biggest test. But like, you look at their record. I mean,

what do you, they've banked all these points. You can't, you can't pick. It's like you, they're not going to fall out of playoff contention. They're not, they're not,

they're not a wreck in that way. No, I, first of all, I did see the Black Friday game. We had it on, uh, with the sound off in my parents living room.

And every time... That's the perfect way to watch those games. Perfect way to watch a holiday sporting event. My mom kept looking over at the TV and going, what? How did they score? Just incredulous as we all... Oh, my God. You know how it is.

Like, you get used to watching hockey completely stonefaced because you're watching it in press boxes, right? And so none of us were reacting. Me or Allison were reacting when pucks would go in the net and my mom would be incredulous. But to circle back to your point about the Rangers and the schedule, like, what if I told you that their strength of schedule the rest of the way was actually like dead middle of the pack. Like I don't know that it is going to get substantially worse for them. You're going to have games against, I don't think they've played Florida yet. And that, you know, they're a wagon.

You got a couple games against capitals left. You got games against Carolina and Tampa. They have played Florida. They won. Okay. I think they have two against Florida, four against Carolina, three against Tampa and a couple more against the caps. But, you know, like, and those are, but almost everybody has some amount of games.

like that against those teams pretty comparable. It's pretty much dead middle of the pack. I guess what I'm saying is there's, I'm not going to be sold on them. Like, yeah, their schedule for the rest of the way out, isn't that tough. But there is that stretch,

you know, around, around New Year's, right, where it's Panthers, Tampa, Tampa, Edmonton, Vegas,

Anaheim. And also, stock, God, December 27, starting out with the Red Wings. Like, that's,

that's a stretch of games to circle with them. And I'm not trying to discredit anything that they've, or all that much that they've done because the record is what it is, right? But, you know, that's a stretch for the Rangers where I think we're going to know a lot more about them as it relates to being like true top tier title contenders come out of that five or six game stretch there. No, I agree with you. I don't even know that I'm a believer in the team, but I'm, I think I'm just that much

of a believer in the buffer that like you get, you get that kind of cushioned. That's what that's what it's about, right? like, you can't, the buffers, the buffer is the best way to put it. Like, you can't, like, we're at the point now where the amount of points that these teams have banked is, is relevant. Like, you can't, you can't ignore it. So I can sit here and say, like, well, I don't know if the Rangers are one of the six best teams in the NHL, but at some point, like, you say, like, whatever, it doesn't matter. They're going to make it to the playoffs.

Then whatever happens happens, you know? No, totally. I mean, they've won 10 of 11. Like, it's hard to, that's kind of the only thing that matters in any of this. What do you think of the Tuka-Rask situation? My first thought when I saw it was, is he trying to come back for the Olympics? Or what, like, you know, look, I love Tug-Rask. I hope he comes back.

I don't know that the Bruins, I don't know that that's ultimately, at the end of the day, like, the solution for the Bruins, having seen them last week, I haven't really felt like goaltending is the main issue. depth scoring for me, but, you know, I mean, I hope it comes back. I think if there were some way to swap him out with Linus Olmark, that would be the move. Like, he's the guy who like, you know, but they're, it's tough because Olmark's contract is huge. So they're going to have to carry, you know, they're going to have to carry three goalies or make some, make some crazy, you know, whatever, do some roster gymnastics there because Jeremy Swayman's been the best guy so far, right? And he's been legit good. Like, when I've seen him,

he's been legit good. And so, like, that's why I say, like, yes, I think, you know, you bring Rask back in and I think it's fine if you split those guys or whatever. But, like, I don't think it's fair to expect Tukara has to come in midseason and give you better than what Jeremy Swainman has given you. What I think they crave so badly is anybody, anybody to put the puck in the net behind their top line. I know. I mean, that's, that's it. And that's part, I think that's part of why me and Don regard them so highly on the power ranks is like you look at their team at their team numbers and they're out of control great but it's because the top line is out of control great and it's because Charlie McAvoy is is unbelievable and pretty much pretty much does what he wants

back there and those guys are the are the rising tides that lift all boats for them right like they're they're they're awesome but it's at some point they're going to need to get they're going to need to get something from Taylor Hall or or whoever like Jake de Brusk has been one of their best step forwards and he wants out. So yeah, I don't know. That's a, that's a standing question for them. I just think it's, I just think it's such a, it's been such a fascinating thing to watch, you know, because it's like, oh, wink, wink, wink, nod, Tuka-ask is working out again. You know, we asked Sean Thornton last week, you know, like, what's the deal? What's going to happen? And he didn't, he didn't really want to bite because those guys are,

those guys are like best friends and whatever else. But I don't know, man. I think if I were there, I would pull the trigger. Like, figure out some way to do it. you know, he's going to sign, he's going to sign for nothing. Or maybe just keep him on ice until you need him, right? Like if, if, if Swamen gets hurt or if, you know, or someone goes in the tank, then you, then, then you can have him around. Like, I just have him be like this, you know, this permanent e bug, this like, this like ringer ebug who you have on call whenever, whenever you want it. I think, I think that makes sense too. If nothing else, having him in the room or on the team, it might provide just a little subconscious like, oh, yeah, we're still

the Bruins, right? Like, which like, especially some of these guys have left in free agency. I'm thinking Tori Krug, I'm thinking to Dano Chara and then Rask his situation being what it's been. Like, I think it'd be easy to have a little mentally, you wander a little bit to like, oh, are the good times over, right? And he comes back in, all of a sudden it just starts to feel a little more familiar. you're like, oh yeah, this is what it feels like to be a Bruin.

And the other thing it feels like to be a bruin is to win a lot of games and be a really dominant team. So if nothing else, I don't know, there's got to be a subconscious boost to just having him back around and making that seem just a little more like the old times, like normal. I mean, losing him and David Carachian in the same off season is a great one is a big deal, right? So, yeah, I don't know. And again, if the end result is him just kind of hanging out and being the, and playing the

ebug role and popping in for a week or two. It seems like he's weirdly okay with that, right? So maybe they just keep him on ice until they need him. I'm fine with that too. Yeah. The other kind of Canada-specific thing that's happened over the last few days that we can't really ignore is the officiating disaster, right? And that happened. We saw it we saw with McDavid when he gets hit and then boards Adrian Kempi. We saw it the day after with, you know, Neil Pionk, kneeing Rasmind Dahlin and Jason Spetsa going completely bonkers. You know, the end result of that is that Pionk got two games and Spetsa has an in-person hearing,

which like, I think that's reasonable. I think that's probably the way it should be. Like Spetsa, for as great a guy as he is and for his, like, relatable maybe as the impulse was to go out and get revenge like that for some people, you know, you got to take that one seriously. But it's tough to watch all that. I mean, both things can be true. Like, what McDavid did was bullshit.

What Spetsa did was crazy. But at the end of the day, they're not, I said Rasmus Dahlian, by the way. Rasmus and D. No, no, I know you, I know you meant. They're not in a position to make those decisions if officials don't do their job in the first place. And it's just this ongoing thing where, you know,

You punish the retribution, not the original act, and officiating just kind of skates by without any sort of, without any sort of, you know, accountability or, or real changes or transparency. And it's just, I feel like we have one or two of these days every year, right, where it's like a couple different things happen on the same day. And we're just like, what are we, what are we, what are we doing here? And I think that's, I think this is one of those moments. I totally agree. So let's start with the McDavid thing because he's someone who has publicly called out the officiating on this matter. And so that was the first thing I thought of when I saw him get the call. Because it's obviously that hit was a penalty.

But to see him get thrown out of the game, I don't know. There was a little part of me that was like, okay, so someone here is telling McDavid like, oh, we heard you. We'll call the rule book, you know. And I get that. Like at some point, a bad hit's a bad hit. And you call the penalty. In that way, I guess they're kind of doing. what I'm going to knock them for for not doing in the Toronto Winnipeg game,

which is exactly what you just said. Like the Piaenk play on Sandin was ugly. The Spetsa thing was uglier, but I also don't, I don't know, I'm not going to excuse Jason Spezzer with this. It was a worse hit. Yeah. But I know, I know what you're going with this, yeah.

When a player sees the calls aren't made, like they do feel like they got to stick up for themselves. I don't think he had to stick up. with it with a need of the head and I don't think that was right at all. But it's a problem that I do think is created by the lack of the first call. You know what I mean? Truly one of the most crazy acts. I mean, that that is just a wild Terminator level act of retribution by Spetsa. Like, like, he knew that he was, he knew that he was going in for the kill for, my God, 15 feet, right? Like his, because that was the thing about Sandin. He went down so early and Spetsa had him targeted from, you know,

from the jump. So that's the balance you have to strike, right? Where you got to say like this stuff from Spets is this stuff from Spets is bullshit and whatever. He needs to be punished. But at the same time like you got to you got to fight the war on two fronts here. And I just don't know if I have the just don't know if I have the confidence in NHL officiating to do that. Well no. And what happens after something like this, first of all, that game was super chippy. There was the Dubois Matthews thing, Dubois on wall. And were you a, Did you watch all that, by the way? No.

I didn't, I didn't, all I saw was the highlights. I wasn't watching the whole time. But it was every, it was every 10 minutes, there was a new, what is going on in Toronto and Winnipeg clip coming, right? I think I actually might have been, I don't know if I was covering a game then or what, but. Yeah, I was going to stay. I guess the wings played that time. Yeah, but, but I saw all of it.

And so it turns into this like, well, which hit is worse, Pianker-Speza. The answer is obviously Spetsa, but the villain in it is the officiating. And like, and nobody can say that right now, because of this moratorium on saying a word about the officiating that the league is sent out. But I do believe none of it happens if the first place called. That game got, you know, went to a weird place. And I think the spats a hit was the worst one of the two. I also think it was a preventable one with the blow of a whistle sooner.

It's the exact sort of shit that you just hope we don't see where a game just completely gets out of control. And it's in that space because of, you know, a blown. loan call or whatever official official uh what's we got to come up with it with some like medical term for it right where it's like official negligence official official negligence yeah on 100% and because you know again we we've gone too long we went a month without without going we had our our november freak out where everybody was like why isn't connor macdavit drawing more penalties that was like that was like the the big discussion piece last month and now and now and now here we are again it wouldn't be a month without having one of these.

That's going to take us to our break. We got our interview with Dylan Larkin coming up again. He was really good. It's a must listen if you like the Red Wings or if you're interested in the mindset of a guy who I'm pretty sure is, we can say this, Max, because he couldn't, but he's going to be on the Olympic roster. I think so. We can just, we can just go into that. We can put that out there before going into this.

Not reporting it. We just expect it. No, no, no. This is complete guesstimates from a, for, from us just because of the way he's played and the kind of cachet he has in that organization, right? Yeah. So enjoy the interview and we'll be back afterwards.

All right. We're joined here by Red Wings, Captain Dylan Larkin. It's been a big couple days for you, man. Are you ready for the CFP? Are you ready for the Michigan semifinal game? Yeah. Yeah. It's been a couple good days here in Michigan for sports,

and the Lions got their first win, and Michigan football is doing well. We've won five in a row. So, yeah, I am ready for the playoffs, the college football playoffs. It'll be exciting. Michigan's first time being in it, so I'll be following that closely. You're not going to try to make the trip to Miami for New Year's Eve? That's on the play for you?

No, no All right, Dylan So, I mean, after the way The last few years have gone for you guys, I'm just curious, like, what's it like for you right now Looking at the schedule in December And seeing a meaningful game on the slate You know, every single night, really, it seems like in December

Every single game, I should say, for December. Yeah, I mean, you know, we've been up and down A little bit to start And things have been going well so we have to continue to play well and to accumulate points and set us up for a second half push. And I think with the league we play on, there's so much parity and anyone could beat anyone on any given night.

So we have to have that intensity and ready-to-play attitude that we've had recently and we have to continue it throughout the whole season. Yeah. I talked to a bunch of people over the summer in Sweden and with Roblo, where Sider was playing last year. And it seemed like everybody I talked to would rave about this big personality and the influence he had in their room over there. And he's still a little more reserved with us in the press conferences over here right now. But I was just curious if there's any kind of behind the scenes insight you can give us into Moritz cider, the kid and the teammate. You know, I'm sure you guys have seen it a little bit at least, even if, you know, he's reserved in the media, you know, that big smile, that big infectious smile that he has.

He's always laughing, smiling. He's added a great energy to our locker room, and, you know, I'll give a lot of other newcomers, a lot of credit as well. You know, guys that had a great attitude coming to the range and brought a lot of joy and a lot of laughs and new energy that our locker room needed badly. One of those guys, I imagine Alex Ndilkevich, a guy you had some familiarity with coming up. I mean, what's the influence of him been on the locker room and on the season so far? Yeah, obviously, it's been a huge part of our season so far. you know, I think goalies are always a little bit different. You know, you've got to just let him be and they have their routines and, you know,

whether they're playing or not. You know, you just let him be. But he is a great guy. He's very, very laid back in terms of goalie and some of the crazy superstitions I've seen goalies have. but you know he just he has a very common presence and you know he has that in the net for us and and that's just kind of the person he is and you know he he's never I think he's even known him when we're 14 years old he's had that yeah that's I wanted to bring that up you you guys were on that bell tire team together it was you and Kyle Connor and Zach Wrenzke and

Brennan Perlini was on that I mean that that's a stacked that's a stacked team and you guys are you guys are making your I mean have been making your mark you know in a show for for a few years now is that how do you look back on that you know playing with that group and looking around and seeing seeing the impact that they're that you guys are all you you guys are all making individually now yeah it's it's pretty crazy you know never when we were that age did we think that if one of the guys was like hey this guy's going to play in the nchel we been like, well,

seriously, you know, but for all of us to, you know, I've been able to make it and, and have an impact and, you know, kind of still hoping to grow and,

and have more of an impact. It's pretty cool, very unique. And, and, you know, I still have fun memories of that team and how much fun we

had playing games and tournaments and in big tournaments and, you know, going up to Toronto and playing against the Marley's with McDavid and the team they had. So, you know, we were, we were, it was a, you know, just, just great memories as a kid and a hockey player. Is that something you think about now when you look at the potential for you guys that play together and some other, and some other pretty big tournaments coming up? And I know you probably don't want to talk about that, but it's tough not to look at guys like you and Connor and in Werensky and not think, you know, these guys are, these guys are going to play together again, like sometime, potentially, potentially very soon and make your mark that way.

Yeah, I think about it. You know, it would be, I know very special for me and I think Kyle and Zach would agree. And Alex would agree that, you know, it would. be really special. Dylan, when I look at your start to the season this year, I think, just in my opinion, it's some of the best I've seen you play, maybe the best I've seen you play since I've covered the team. And I'm just curious kind of what your individual read on your season has been so far.

Yeah, you know, things have been going well, I guess, personally. But what feels best about saying that is that the team is having success. and, you know, I think I have played some of the best defensive hockey in my career, and, you know, it started out really well. I think I played the first nine games of the season, and that stretch was probably the best I'd played, and then I had a couple of unforeseen things that happened, and, you know, and it took me a little bit to get back to my timing and into that form.

And then, weirdly enough, I guess I had one of the best stretches of games where I wasn't really, I guess, I wasn't really, I guess, feeling the best, but the puck was going in the net. and I'm not sure how many games or what it was, but the puck was going in. And, you know, I remember talking to my girlfriend, and I was like, I don't know if I've ever had a stretch like this where pucks are just bouncing in the net for me. So, but that's how it goes. And there's also times in seasons where it doesn't go that well,

and you've got to stick with it. And I've always felt like, you know, I've tried to just stick with it. And, you know, this year I feel I'm playing the right way, the most efficiently and the best of my career. Yeah. I think back to your rookie year playing with Henrik Zetterberg, and now you've got Lucas Raymond playing on your wing.

And I'm just curious, like, do you consciously think back to, okay, what were these things Henrik told me as I can tell him to Lucas? Or do you think about the parallels there at all? No, a little bit, yes. right? I think even through just the experiences I've had as a young player and I'm not too far removed from that. So I do think about that stuff and I've tried to have a little bit of that wisdom. But Lucas is a special player and he's so talented. someone that, you know, I can relate to a little bit,

but I think he's way more talented and makes way more plays, it makes me a better player. So, you know, there's just a level of respect there. And that's one thing I think with people ask about chemistry and how that works and how you find that. And I really do believe that there's a respect between players and they really look for each other and they enjoy playing with each other. And I think between myself, Tyler and Lucas, we have that.

It's kind of a similar question with Steve, with Steve Eisenman. I mean, you've been around him, you know, a huge chunk of your career. He grew up in Michigan. He took a year to, you know, choose and make you make you the captain, which is just such a cool thing. He didn't inherit you. He actually kind of plucked you out. As you guys move into the next phase of stuff here,

where you're actually competing, you know, for a playoff spot here. What kind of conversations do you have with them? Like, are they different now than they were, say, like a year or two or three ago? Yeah. Yeah, they are. You know, I wouldn't, I guess, really don't really want to go into too much of that. But, you know, I guess maybe I could say even that there's less conversations, you know. Is that possible?

Cheers. Yeah, I mean, things are going well. Yeah, right. We're playing. And, you know, he manages the team. And I play and be there for the guys. And that's kind of how it is right now. And we're all excited about how it's going.

But we also know that we as players feel that there's, is another level for us. Special teams could be better and, you know, we could score more. we could defend better. So we're just working on getting better every day. Yeah. I mean, how's that changed for all you guys, really, like in the room? I mean, again, you guys are, I know it's early.

It's December 6th, but, you know, your fifth, you're fourth in the division. You're in a playoff spot right now. How do you adjust in the room? like with the group with like this kind of different this different phase you're you're moving in you're moving into here um

I don't think there's and I don't that's a tough one I look at it as a sport you know it's hockey it's something that we've played our whole lives and you go into a hockey game wanting to win and

right now we're in and we feel we have the group and I really believe and I've said it since day one in Detroit you know I believe in this group and we're a close-knit group

and I believe that when we walk into a building we have a chance to win and a really good chance and you know the past couple of years you always have that you're competitive and you want to win but

we just didn't have enough and you know the pieces are in place right now where where I think we're competitive and we need to we need to keep that going we don't we don't really think about it too much and on what our position is you know we actually have the mindset we want more we want more points we want more you know comfort in the standings I guess you mentioned I mean it's hockey it's fun you guys want to have fun how do you balance and it's got to be more fun now than it was you know two years ago so how do you

balance that that return of that of that feeling or what's it what's it like to actually have because it is i mean it is it's got to be different now right you guys are you guys are in December and playing meaningful games and have have have something legitimate to look forward here like is what what's it like having the fun factor kind of return that way i can't really tell you what it means you know it's it has been hard here's the past couple years and I think you ask any hockey player, any professional athlete,

winning is more fun. Winning solves a lot of problems and put smiles on guys' faces and makes coming to the rank enjoyable. And, you know, for me and a couple guys that have been here, it feels great. And, you know,

like I continue to say, we just, it's December 6th. We need to keep going. you know, we can't, we can't just call it a year on, on this. And, you know, this league, the ups and downs are crazy and, and there's going to be tough stretches, but we remain consistent and play hockey the way we can. We're going to continue to accumulate points.

Yeah, best luck moving forward, man. I know it's a tough, I know it's a tough stretch of games, tough run coming up here. through the holidays here. And also, also, I know you got to go. So I appreciate the time. And like I said, best of luck moving forward. Yeah. Thank you so much. Yeah. Thanks, man. Awesome. Thanks, Dylan. That was good stuff with Dylan. And Max, he's a, he's a guy you've been around a lot, right? What is this for you? Year four? Four. Is this your fourth year on the beat? My God. Yeah. Crazy. So yeah, I know you've been around him a lot. What's the, what's the change been like in him over the last couple years? Has there been one? Well, what I'd say is,

I think everyone would tell you this about Dylan is that he wants to win so bad. And he's such a competitive guy that, you know, that was the thing I always wondered about as they went through those tougher times is like, what is this like on Dylan? And what I think I've seen most of all in the last couple years, and I don't know if it's, all of a sudden, you're looking at him through Captain goggles, right? But I think the leadership has risen up. And you see him as this really steadying force where, you know, I think about the fire, you know, know that you see Dylan, but then you can also see it as the steadying. And that's an important evolution, because I don't think the fire's gone either. You know, I just think it's, it's, it's, you see both sides and you see it channeled. And so I think he's a huge part of, of the start

they've had. And, and, you know, we talked about the, all the rookies that they've had, all three of them we talked about in that interview. I think they're a big part of it too. But, you know, I think his, his role in the middle of all that was, is, it's impossible to ignore for me, at least. December 6th and we're talking about the wings in the playoffs. Crazy. Thanks again to Dylan for his time. We're going to come back in a minute for our two cents. Max, you know how this goes.

We run through comments on our episode page on the athletic app, which I've had to figure out how to bring up with Custin's being out so frequently here. We want you guys to comment there. We want you guys to bust our chops or ask questions or whatever. And it's great to see. every week people, people go out of their way to find this, right? You just, you go to, oh, brother, you go to, you go to listen on the bottom, and then you click NHL, and then you click the athletic hockey show, and then you scroll down and click our episode page,

and that'll take, that'll take you where, where you want to be. On our comments, or in our comment section about our last episode, which we talked about the sale of the penguins, had a great interview with Sean Thornton. There were a few. we got one from Shane C because we talked about NFTs for some reason Craig and I did

I would buy an NFT artwork of Panarin throwing his glove at Marshand except replace Panarin with Sean and Marshan with Craig I don't think that's fair I think I should be

I think Craig throws the glove I think Craig throws the glove like I'm I'm the marshand of this crew but that's fine Will Cee says let's all throw in 20 bucks to buy beer in the coyotes I'm rum right there

I mean, if you and I throw in 20 bucks, dude, and we got Will C, I'm sure Cussons will chip in, 20 bucks divided, or let's see, 20 times 4, 80 bucks. Yeah. Is that enough? Not quite, but we're getting there. I was at that complex in Glendale the other day. It's actually, it's a pretty impressive thing. I can see why the NHL would have preferred things to work out there.

I guess there's still time. I'm not going to believe that they're gone until they're gone. But Glendale, I mean, Glendale. Like that seems... Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You're talking with the Healer River.

Yeah. Whatever it is. Yeah, no, it's whatever. It's... It's... Maybe the second decade will be the best. All right, moving on. We talked about the ebug situation in Boston with Sukaraq earlier.

Not the only ebug news of the week. We had another situation in St. Louis where we've seen this a few times in a few different forms over the last little bit. They had to use an ebug news. ebug last week. Kyle Conan was his name. They had to use him because they ran into COVID-related cap bullshit. And it's, is it unfair? Yes.

Should the NHL make some kind of space for teams to exceed the cap when they're dealing with COVID absences? Absolutely. When we are talking about forwards and defensemen, we need to preserve the the e-bug at all costs. And I know, you know, all condolences to the blues for having to deal with some serious bullshit that was outside of their control, right? But I'm sorry, the e-bug needs to stick around. We need more Kyle Conan's. If that's unfair or whatever, then so be it. I'll be unfair. Keep it, keep it around. It is one of the coolest things that hockey has.

that no other sport has where there's just a guy who sits in the press box every game 99% of the time nothing comes of it half of a percent of the time they have to race down to the dressing room and put pads on and still nothing comes of it and then half of the other percent of the time we get an amazing piece of just a slice of life it's amazing i love explaining that to to people who have like who have no experience with hockey right we're like oh yeah by the way there's a every now and then some substitute teacher or accountant or dude who works for the team who played goalie when he was when he was 17 or a zamboni driver i was trying i was trying to bring that up out of out of out of respect to our to our friends in toronto this is where

this is where producer jeff comes in gives me the finger um i love explaining that to people right because it's such a weird unique unique kind of thing so yeah man preserve it i feel i feel bad for the blues in these teams that have gotten nailed over COVID stuff. But, you know, whatever, this needs to stay. Yeah. I thought it was interesting this week to see Tyler Johnson is getting the same artificial disreplacement surgery that Jack Eichol got, especially after, you know, all the, the chaos that the surgery had created for Eichol situation. Now so soon after another, another NHL player is going to get it. And I think that's, I honestly think that's really cool. Like, I think it's a really good thing and, you know, I really hope the Jack Eichel's okay and does exceedingly well for the rest of his career for a number of reasons.

But one of them is because if he does, it really introduces this new procedure into the NHL lexicon. And I think you're starting to see that already. And I think that's something that everyone, I mean, this is how medicine advances, right? Like somebody gets it and it becomes a widely accepted procedure. And in this one case, you know, like it's a more accepted procedure outside of, you know, pro sports, NHL circles than inside of them. But, you know, I think that's a really cool thing. I'm really glad

that Tyler Johnson's doing it and I hope it goes really well for both of them so that more guys see this as an avenue. I think that's a nice little feather in the calf for Jack, right? Where it's like you just had this huge argument once long feud with the Sabres over this over this whole procedure.

They're like, well, it's never been done with an NHL player. Well, now it has and now other guys are are getting it done too. Yeah. Very cool. Maxy, anything else? But before we finish up here, is that all that's on your mind? There's usually not very much on my mind.

So, like, I'm amazed that we pulled this much out of there. That's not true. That's not true. You're a very smart boy. And the unofficial, official, official co-host of the Athletic Hockey Show on Tuesday. All right, buddy. I think, I think we're at the end. But before we get out of here, we want to remind you, listen on Wednesday to the roundtable with Rob Pizzo from CBC Sports and Saracivian and Jesse Granger. Tomorrow they're going to have Shana Goldman, who's one of the best, officially a full-time employee of the athletic after doing great freelance work

with us for so long. She's going to write about the Devils and the Rangers and fantasy and all that stuff. Just a really, really talented, super prolific stats writer. Shane is the best. Now, most of all, thank you guys for listening to The Athletic Hockey Show. Please follow us on your favorite podcast platform. don't forget to leave a rating and review. Subscribe to the Athletic Audio Plus on Apple Podcasts

to get all the bonus content from our entire network. This week, the Wednesday round table show, it's their turn to provide 10 good minutes of bonus content for you. You've heard it from us in the past, but I'm sure the Wednesday show will do a lot better than us. Start with a 30-day free trial, then just 99 cents a month after that. And right now, get an annual subscription to the Athletic for just $3.99 a month

when you visit the athletic.com slash hockey show. Next week, supposedly Craig will be back. I'll believe that when I see it. Max, I can't believe I just whiffed on the best possible analogy for you. You were the e-bug. You were the Tuesday show e-bug. I love it. And I didn't even have to get an accounting degree.

And we didn't even have to do questionable accounting over COVID-19. Win-win. That's true. I'll talk to you soon. I'll talk to you soon, buddy. Thanks again to everybody listening. And we'll be back next week.