The Athletic Hockey Show - Edmonton Oilers interested in Evander Kane, Bobby Clarke rips Ron Hextall, Jack Eichel practices with the Vegas Golden Knights and Kodak Black has himself a night in South Florida

Episode Date: January 12, 2022

Rob Pizzo from CBC Sports is joined by Jesse Granger from the Athletic NHL, with Sara Civian on assignment this week. The boys discuss the Edmonton Oilers interest in Evander Kane, the job Ken Holland has done constructing that team, Bobby Clarke's harsh criticism of Ron Hextall taking Nolan Patrick ahead of Cale Makar in 2017 and Jack Eichel's first practice with the Vegas Golden Knights.Julian McKenzie, associate editor for the Athletic NHL joins Rob and Jesse and adds his two cents on John Klingberg's contract demands in Dallas, Marc Bergevin joining the Los Angeles Kings front office and he provides an update on the Montreal Canadiens General Manager search.The guys also discuss if Canadian teams are putting themselves in jeopardy to qualify for a playoff spot by postponing games until capacity limits are lifted in Canada and they praise the powerful Hockey Diversity ad which came out last week as we continue to fight racism in hockey. Finally, Jesse profiles his in-depth column on Robin Lehner helping others who suffer from mental health, and Rob and Jesse talk about rapper Kodak Black's antics last night at the Canucks/Panthers game which broke hockey twitter on Tuesday evening. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What's going on, everybody? Welcome to the Athletic Hockey Show, the Wednesday Roundtable Edition. I am Rob Bezo from CBC Sports. Alongside Jesse Granger from The Athletic. Who's Saracivian this week, Jesse? Just bailing on us. Is she sleeping? Is she...

What does she do? It's like the NHL. You never know who's going to be there each night. The players, the teams show up, and half the players are there and half of them aren't. Sarah Sivian has been postponed today because of COVID protocol. and she's not going to be. No, Sarah's busy doing some work stuff. And she'll join us again next week.

But we got so much. I mean, we give people a little bit of a peek behind the curtain. I mean, we obviously discuss what we are going to discuss on the show before we actually discuss it on the show. And yeah, we got a ton to cram in. We're going to talk you, Bandar Kaine. We're going to talk Ken Holland. Bobby Clark, how often do you get to talk about Bobby Clark on this show?

I can't wait to hear what you have to say about Jack Eichol's first practice with the Vegas Golden Knights. And man, so much to talk about. And Julian McKenzie's going to join us, a good friend of this show. And of course, the associate editor at the athletic NHL and co-host of the Chris Johnson show, he's going to join us to do what he does best in the second segment. But, Jesse, I thought we were done talking about Evander Cain. Yeah. Didn't you? So did I.

Every time we bring it up, I'm like, okay, that's it, right? because I remember asking you and Sarah, if you guys thought he was going to sign with a team this year, um, you both said no, if memory serves me correctly, I was in complete agreement with you. And now we've got,

you know, his contracts terminated by the sharks. Of course, the PA files agreements because they're going to file agreements when he's something like this happens. Um, and then Ken Holland speaks, general manager of the Edmonton Oilers,

because the Oilers are in a complete free fall right now. Um, and he's asked about it. And he said, quote, I believe in second chances. It's hard to be perfect. And he did confirm that he has spoken to Evander Cain's agent. My question is, does Ken Holland know how to count?

Because by my count, he is far beyond second chances. Yeah, I mean, way beyond. And it's happened on multiple teams. It's all different types of terrible decisions he's made. I remember the day that they unconditionally waived him. Someone asked me, and I'm like, he'd probably, he'll probably get a contract in Russia, in the KHL, would be my guess. The fact that there are not just one, but multiple NHL teams offering him something is, it's interesting.

It's hard to act surprised because this is sports and we see it in the NFL, we see it everywhere. Guys that are talented get as many chances as these GMs can give them. Yeah, well, that's the whole point, right? I mean, on paper, you look at what you're going to get. Let's pretend he is a faceless hockey player. And you just look at a guy who has scored 20 plus goals in six straight seasons. You look at a guy who is a physical force out there. You look at a guy who, let's be honest, his ability to help a hockey team with his hockey skills is pretty unquestioned.

Yeah. But it's the baggage that comes with it. I mean, do you what? He has left a trail of controversy and negativity. at every stop of his NHL career. Yeah. And I think like when I look at those teams,

we don't know if Tampa Bay is one of them, but I have seen Tampa Bay's name floated in like for me thinking like, okay, what's the best way for this to work smoothly? I think a situation like Tampa has a much better chance of working where he can just be like shut up and sit in the corner. We're two times Stanley Cup champions. We have all these superstars.

Like just be over there, be a third line guy, play the minutes you have. Whereas in Edmonton, I feel like there's a lot more pressure. Things haven't gone as well there. Things, if they trade for him and then things don't go well right away, like I feel like there's a lot more that can go wrong in a place like Edmonton

rather than like, I feel like Tampa is stable. I feel like they're built to handle something like that. Yeah, it's, I mean, like you said, I think the key there is not only is it a Canadian city where you know that, you know, hockey's a religion in Edmonton. They've lost five in a row. they're out of a playoff spot right now. This is, they've got two of the best offensive players on the planet.

Nothing is going right. And you want to add this super controversial player, uh, to your roster. And I, and I, you know, saying,

um, you know, Ken Holland kept saying, nobody's perfect. Everybody makes mistakes. He's just made so many. And there's such ridiculous mistakes. They're not mistakes that you could almost relate to.

I mean, let's be honest, Jesse. How many times do you hear so, well, it's 22 year old. kid got drunk and did this, did that. And all you and your buddies look at each other and go, yeah, I did the exact same thing

when I was 22. This is, I didn't fake a vaccination, you know, paper to be able to avoid getting the job. I didn't avoid, I didn't, you know, I don't bring that negativity. And the one thing that really sticks in my mind when this whole thing was going down with San Jose, all the reports that his teammates wanted nothing to do with him. That to me is you want to bring that into your dressing room. It just doesn't make any sense to me. Right. I completely agree.

Plus, that's not the trade Edmonton should be making. I cannot, for the life of me, figure out why Mark Andre Fleury isn't on the Oilers. I can't figure it out. Unless he's told Chicago that they're on his no trade list, like he's got a partial no-movement clause. It's not a full no-movement, obviously, unless he'd still be here in Vegas. But I, I mean, the Blackhawks are clearly not going anywhere. They can absorb half that salary. you can get Mark Andre Fleury for $3.5 million.

I cannot, for the life of me, figure out why he hasn't been in Edmonton for two weeks. And he would thrive in Edmonton. He would, and I don't just mean on the ice. I mean, he would embrace it. He would love it there. Oh, I would love to see Mark Andre Fleury there. And their goaltending situation has been a complete mess all year long. I mean, that's what happens when you put all your faith in an older goaltender when he gets hurt.

Now suddenly you've got somebody who's got to pick up the slack. Emiko Koskenen, but man, he would thrive there. That Ken Holland Press Conference was really, it was interesting. I found myself shaking my head a lot. I mean, he talked about how he doesn't like to fire coaches midseason. I mean, it's interesting that I found myself thinking some of the things I was thinking about Ken Holland yesterday, given that this is a GM who would show the rest of the league how to grow a team and to keep a team in a, you know,

an elite position for so many years. He was the benchmark. You know, what Detroit did, not only would they succeed, but while they were succeeding, he was building the future of that team. And now you look at what's going on in Edmonton. He took the blame. He said it's on me, but, oh, how the mighty have fallen. That's all I kept thinking when I was watching that press conference.

Yeah. I mean, it just, it seems like Edmonton is just, it just seems like they can't, like they get Connor McDavid and Leon Drezae. You think that'd be like a Stanley Cup run and that hasn't happened. It just seems like it's hard to win there for whatever reason. Oh, they cannot afford a missed playoff. They just, this just, this team can't. You can have not only the best player on the planet,

but the guy who's the best player by leaps and bounds. And oh, you also have another guy who's always challenging for the scoring title as well. It's, it's a mess there to see. But I love the Mark Andre Fleury. You know, I would love to see just the way he thrives in a city like that. Moving on. How often do we get to talk about Bobby Clark anymore? This one just kind of came out of nowhere for me.

He was on the Cam and Strict podcast. And I'm going to just read you the quote just so we don't misquote it or anybody blames me for saying I didn't do this, right? But quote, he was talking way back about the 2017 entry draft. And he said, none of our scouts wanted Nolan Patrick. They wanted McCar. Of course, he went on to be a superstar and Patrick hasn't played. But Hextall made that choice himself.

and there were other choices that were made at our drafts that were paying for. He also went on to say, Hexie made some huge mistakes. First off, I love that you're ripping up and you still use his nickname. If I'm ripping somebody, I'm not using Hexy. Hey, Hexy, you're brutal. Where did this come from? I mean, it just feels so out of the blue, doesn't it? You don't see this often in hockey with guys criticizing and kind of like,

peek, giving us a peek behind the curtain of possibly what happened. Like, I, I want to believe him that that's what happened. But it's the first thing I thought just out here in Vegas from my perspective is like, poor Nolan Patrick. Like this guy. Yeah. This wasn't like he was, he was attacking hexy, not Nolan Patrick. But Nolan Patrick is yet again in the news for like this poor guy. He just came back from injury. He's really struggling here in Vegas. He has not shown. any glimpse of the number two overall pick that people thought may happen when he came here. He's the connection to Kelly McCrimmon. That hasn't happened.

His career has is not going well. And I just thought, man, this poor guy is like drug back into the spotlight again. Yeah, I just thought, I thought it was a cheap shot a bit because I'm not going to pretend that I'm one of the guys who knows every, you know, prospect come draft time. There are people who know a heck of a lot more than I do in that subject. but just when I heard that, I went back and started looking at mock drafts from 2017, just to remind,

and nobody had Kail McCar ahead of Nolan Patrick. And hindsight, if I may use the oldest cliche in the book, hindsight's 2020, yes, you'll look at what Kail McCar is doing now. If you look at what Kail McCar is doing now, he's number one overall pick. And you're bringing this up as if Ron Hexton made this huge mistake and he's the reason we're paying for all this,

it just felt like a weird drive-by. Yeah, if I remember right, it was like, it was he sure and Patrick at the top of that class, right? And I think the debate was basically those two. Like, it's one of them will be one and one of them will be two. And I think it was Patrick's like injury concerns that kind of pushed him down to two, if I remember right, that was like right when I first started covering hockey. But like you,

I don't pretend to be a draft expert. We've got guys like Corey Prondman and Scott Wheeler. And anytime a player is draft. drafted, a player is traded for, I go straight to those guys. I'm like, tell me who this guy is. I am not watching Canadian junior hockey. I'm not going to pretend like I'm an expert on them. I do it every year.

It's the one aspect of the game, too, that people like you and me in our jobs, we can fully admit, we're like, not, no, no, there's people that know a lot better, a lot more than I do about this. It's hard enough to watch all the NHL games. I can't watch all the junior hockey games. Not if I want to like stay married and be happy and everything. Like, there's so much. Like, I watch a lot of hockey.

If I suddenly started saying, well, I got a triple header of CHL games this Saturday. I'm going to be sitting on the couch all day. It's just not happening. So you go to the people who do that. But yeah, it felt like a weird drive, but I wanted to bring that up. And, you know, what McCar is doing this year. He's got 16 goals in 29 games. Fastest to score 16 goals as a defenseman since I'm not sure from pronouncing this guy's name properly, Bobby Orr.

We've heard of that guy. Like, when your name starts getting brought up. with Bobby Orr. Just incredible. How was that Jack Eichael practice? Fine. I mean, you know, I love every now and again when there's, you know, it's the games that are usually highly anticipated.

I love highly anticipated practices because it's a lot of the videos and stuff we see are from people like you who are at the rink. Yeah, it was fun. It's the season is long, right? And like you're going to practice every single day. It can get monotonous. It's nice to have a, like, excitement to go to the rank today. And that was yesterday for the Golden Knights.

Everyone knew they had quite a few fans in the building. Everyone knew Jack Ika would be making his first skate with teammates ever in Vegas. So it was pretty cool. He just kind of glided around out there. He didn't do a whole lot. But, I mean, he did stay after practice. I was impressed. The guy, it's his first day in Vegas.

And he stayed after with the backup goalie, Logan Thompson, to put in some extra work, not just getting work for Eichol, but like he was doing goalie drills with him. He was shooting through pylons to get Logan Thompson some extra work. So I was like, all right. I mean, he was, he was gassed by the end of it. You could tell he was not used to NHL practices. But he still had that ridiculous release. There were a couple times where he let one rip and you're just like, oh, my God, are you kidding me?

He looked like Jack Eichel. Yeah. And, you know, obviously wearing the non-contact jersey. I don't think he needed it. I don't think so many guys accidentally lay out Jack Eichol, and according to Peter DeBore, he's going to be wearing that a lot.

But of course, in the age that we live in, of course, people start bringing up Wednesday coming. Wednesday actually going to be physically ready to play. That's going to be a while, a while, right? Yeah, so this whole time, it kind of seems like the coaches and Kelly McCriman, whenever they talk about it, they're trying to temper expectations.

And then Eichel will kind of like push those expectations a little forward. Yesterday, someone asked him about the Olympics because he had mentioned prior that he wanted to play in the Olympics. And someone asked him just like, I know you aren't really healthy right now, but like, what did you think about that decision? And he goes, I think his exact words were, I'm not going to say that I was going to be healthy and ready to play in the Olympics. But I'm also not going to say that I wasn't going to be healthy and ready to play in the Olympics, which the Olympics are what, two weeks away? You know better than I do. You know, Windows. February 4th?

Yeah. February 4. So, I mean, that's not very far away. Now, is he going to be playing an NHO games on February 4th? Highly, highly unlikely. I do not expect him to play before the Olympic break. But that Olympic break is so long. It feels like the beginning of that, like when they first come back from the All-Star

and the Olympic break, to me, that seems like a very realistic timeline for Eichel to return. They have to figure out what they're going to do under the cap to get him on. the ice because he doesn't currently fit under the cap. But yeah, I think he, I think he could play maybe earlier than some of us were thinking. Okay, but he's got that luxury because of the team he plays for. You know what I mean? When your team's sitting top in the Pacific and you have the star power that you do, Jack, relax. Get better.

You know, come back when you come back. But it's interesting that he said that because, yeah, I'm wondering if he had a hard target or if Vegas or two points out of a playoff spot and could. definitely use the help. Do we see him back? But he's got the luxury to just kind of take his time. Yeah. And he has said, like, Michael's been very honest with us this entire time about the, about, he's been very open about the timeline. And he said yesterday that there is no hard timeline. It's kind of just a feel thing. Like he even, like, we asked him like, are there like milestones you're trying to hit? And he basically said, like, no, not really. He's like the first two weeks. I was kind of getting

used to how I feel now. I guess you feel different after getting an artificial disc put in your neck. Now he said I pretty much feel back to normal. This is just a feel thing. I'm on the ice. I'm trying to get my timing, my flow back. The team is not pressuring me at all. They've told me like, take your time. We do not, like you said, they're not in a position where they're trying to rush him back to try to make a playoff spot.

This team's in good shape, even with the injuries that they have with Max Patch Ready out now with wrist surgery. But yeah, I mean, it's going to be fun to see when he gets back. This team, the cop, like we were talking to Mark Stone yesterday and Mark Stone made it sound like they are not going to play on the same line, which I agree with because I think Mark Stone and Jack Eichel are both superstars who can power their own line. I think putting them both on one line is kind of diminished returns. This team, if they've got a line with Mark Stone and Max Patch Ready and another line with Jack Eichol and some combination of Marcia So, Riley Smith, like this team is absolutely stacked. Yeah, it's, it's unfair. And I love his line afterwards that he's like

kid at Christmas, which is, you know, we can all kind of relate when you get to do something like that. And that's the other thing I really like about this situation. You said he stayed after practice. He's helping teammates. He's, he's so happy to be there. You know what I mean? And you can understand what, given what he's gone through, given the battle, given, and to have him do this and suddenly this, the surgery looks like it's going well, recovery from it. He's going to an elite Stanley Cup contending team. He's, they're welcoming him with open arms. I mean, this almost seems Disney like when it comes to Jack Eichael for a poor guy who's

been suffering in hockey hell for a very long time. And, you know, a buddy of mine texted me, we have a chat group where we talk hockey. And he said, you know, this was right after the Ken Hall impressor. He's like, imagine Connor McDavid just looking at Jack Eichel now going, you bastard. Like, look what, look what you have. and look what I'm going through. When you look at that, that tandem, right? It's pretty crazy.

Yeah, when Ikel steps on the ice for a Golden Knights playoff game, it'll be his first playoff game of his entire career. That's like, that's hard to believe that he could be that good and have never stepped on the ice in an NHL playoff game before. But that's the unfortunate thing with this sport. You know what I mean? There are other sports. Like, that doesn't happen in basketball.

Right, right. You know what I mean? You put an elite player on a shitty team, and that team suddenly is, so much better. Whereas we're talking 40 second shifts

and 22 minutes a game and that's at most and there's only so much one person can do but man that team you're right you got a good gig

you get to watch that team when it's all together but you're right salary cap issue man that's a lot of money to get under the cap signing this week took a rask

one year deal $1 million dollars with the Austin Bruins, obviously he was recovering from that hip surgery, which is always interesting when you talk about the loopholes that comes with the CBA, CBA is what I was trying to say there. SETI never really considered retiring in the offseason, but you got to wonder anytime it's this late. But I think the Bruins will be happy to see Tukarask back. For sure. Yeah, that's a big boost. You don't know what he's going to be.

Like, what is he going to be the Tukorak? Like, as someone who plays goalie, like hip surgery sounds terrifying. It is so much pressure, so much pressure on your hips. And that's just me, like, playing with my buddies in beer league. Like, not the, I'm not putting the pressure on it that Tukaraski is in an NHL game. Like, that's, it's scary. Like, that's, when I see hip surgery, that makes me worry. But they, I mean, welcome him back.

They could definitely use some solid goaltending right now. that being said um people i know who have gotten hip surgery it's almost the other way around it's not like a knee surgery really like all this knee's gonna bug me for i i've known people who couldn't walk they now again they're not professional athletes right they couldn't walk they get hip surgery and they're like my life is now fantastic like i'm pain free yeah so that's good to know yeah that's that's it's It's one of those weird things where once you get it fixed, it's better. Again, I was sick the day they taught hip surgery in high school. So I know about hip surgeries.

I do, you know, the sixth round of the NHL entry draft. I know a lot more about spine surgery than I did six months ago. I'll tell you that. Yeah, you know, it's so funny when in our line of work when something weird like that happens and suddenly you just have to go, okay, I'm going to buckle up and do the research. Yeah, well, I talked to like three spine surgeons. I'm like, this is not something, this is not interviews I thought I'd be doing. Yes.

And then suddenly you're like, you know what? I think I could do the surgery. Right. That's the small phone. I've not done enough research. I think I can pull this off. While back, we talked about Rod Brindmore getting that big fine for being angry on the bench. Rick Bowen has got a big one, $25,000.

He slammed his stick. Of course, upset at officials. It's not doing that because he's upset at his own team or anything. I saw somebody tweet, you know, if that was a player who hits another player over the head with a stick, the most he's getting fined is 5K. And now you've got a, you know, a coach getting 20. I might be old school. I like seeing coaches lose it. It's one of my favorite things.

Like I always feel bad for them because they don't have that outlet. You know, if a player's angry, he goes out, he's pissed off. It might actually help the team. A poor coach is sitting there in a suit. He just wants to let off some steam. and he does it and it's $25,000 fine. I love watching it. Me too.

That video of him hitting the stick was so funny. I watched it like a hundred times. Yeah, it's great. I've been lucky here in Vegas. Both these coaches blow up. Like Gerard Gallant, he just tried to rip the paper out of the referee's hand a couple nights ago. That was great.

Yeah. Yeah. I enjoy a good coach getting angry at the referee. Well, hopefully Julian McKenzie doesn't get angry with us and slam a stick because he's coming up next. the athletic NHL associate editor and also the co-host of the Chris Johnson Show. And we'll talk a lot with him including Mark Bergevin, not out of work long. So don't go anywhere.

We'll talk to Julian in just a couple minutes. Well, for the first time in 2022, he just missed us too much. Julian McKenzie joining us on the Wednesday roundtable. How are you, Julian? Happy New Year. I'm doing very well. Happy New Year to you, too. I missed you, buddy.

Mr. Jesse. Good to see you guys. Sad that Civby's not here. We could use a week off from her. The podcast will be free from Francophone Quebec slander from Sydney. I was going to talk about Montreal Media and she'd just be sitting here telling you guys are terrible. We've been spared.

Sarah knows. Sarah knows we love her. Good to see you as well. We got Jesse and I crammed a bunch of topics in our opening session. segment, but we got a lot to talk about. I wanted to ask you, obviously, just given where you are and given a team, you know, pretty well, the Mark Bergerven News, senior advisor to the GM of the Los Angeles Kings, that didn't take long. I mean, I thought really he'd be, he'd put his feet up. And after being in one of the most stressful jobs in the NHL, as far as GMs go and the microscope you're under, I thought he would just chill out for a year, but I guess he just wants to be around the game.

Yeah, I think so, too. I still think more importantly than anything, I think he really wanted to be in a market where he did not have the pressures of a Montreal. You know, being in L.A., which I don't know if you guys realize this, the city, the team, I think there was like a report in the New York Post about a couple months ago when Bershman was still GM that suggested that, you know, hey, don't be surprised if the Los Angeles Kings are a team that Mark Bershman ends up being connected to should something happen to his job. Lo and behold, he ends up going there. I mean, obviously the familiarity with Luke Robataya's president of the team. I think that plays a role in that. But also just being in L.A., like the Los Angeles Kings, they have their fans, but there are so many other teams in the state of California for people to care about.

You can just walk around Venice Beach or do whatever you want to just like hang out. Like, I'm not as surprised that it, I mean, I figured he's going to find himself a different job, even if it wasn't going to be a GM thing. the 42 days out of work, maybe it's a little bit soon. But like the fact that he's able that he's able to find himself a new gig on the West Coast. Like, I think that's pretty much a perfect scenario for Mark Berger event. Free of the English, French media coming at him, the Canadian market, all that. Like he's, he gets to chill.

Like yesterday in Montreal, it was like minus 34 with the wind chill. I wonder what the temperature was like in L.A. yesterday. Yeah. And it's funny. You mentioned just the fact that it's L.A. Like, I always think of, that was one of the things that Wayne Gretzky always said when he got traded to L.A. He's like, we just go out for dinner and nobody bugs us. You know, Mark Bergevin can't go to dinner in Montreal when you're the GM of the team and have nobody bug you.

And he's got the cushiest gig. I always, I, my dream job when I get older is to be a senior advisor. The guy who just at the end of the meeting, they go, Pizzo, what do you think? That's the job I want. Dude, that's a cushy job. And like, I'm sure, like, either you've made enough money in your life where you could just take a job like that and just be like, all right, whatever, I'll just come to the office or the advisor job. Like, they pay you like a decent amount. We're just like, all that I have to do is just be the last guy to just be like, all right, this sounds cool.

Like, you know what? You're changing my perspective on life, pizzer. I, you know what? I think when I reached like 55, 60, like, I don't mind if I'm not able to be at a point where I'm not retired or anything. if I could still be a senior advisor somewhere and still make some money, like, I think I'm doing an eye for myself. You've changed by perspective. Yeah.

On the West Coast. On the West Coast. He zooms into meetings like from the beach. Like, are you kidding me? This is like perfect for him. Oh, man. That is just, that's amazing for me. So, yeah, I'm not surprised that Mark Bergerbef found himself a work.

And I'm not surprised at all that he found it in a market that, I mean, compared to what it is in Montreal, the fans and media attention, not nearly as rampant as it is in the La Bad Provence. Any news on the GM search? Just every day, just trying to see, like, who's still in the running. I think Pierre LeBron the other day said that there were still quite a handful of candidates out there. I feel like the list gets bigger every time I look at it. Yeah, like, first they said it was eight and then like I was, like, I think it was nine.

I think it's like 10 now. I'm really intrigued at the names. Like a lot of people, like, every time I talk about. talk to people about who the new GM was going to be. There was like a little while where I seriously thought, okay, Matzier-Darch is going to be the guy. And like he obviously has the connection with Tampa Bay. And he was with Julian Breesbois.

And we all Julian Breezebois, once in a while I was in the Canadian organization. And you'd think, okay, it makes perfect sense for Mattiard Dars, because he comes from the best team in hockey. And then he gets to be in a situation where he could be a GM. But now I think about it. Like, considering the way the structure, the management structures in Montreal, where you have Jeff Gorton pretty much running everything, and whoever's going to be the GM, yes, they're saying it's going to be in tandem, but it's an easy

position to put a younger, more inexperienced person there. Like, I think of a person like Daniel Breyer, who's running an ECHL franchise, and I don't think he necessarily looks as bad of an option. I think Mark Deney is in the running for this as well. This is a guy who played in the NHL as a goalie, and actually works for LDAS and does the intermission reports. but a lot of people like to bring up the fact that he has those connections to QMJHL teams in the province, and he's a better hockey mind than some people give him for.

And people are thinking, hey, maybe the name that pops up is going to be someone that no one really thought about. And in the world that we're in now where we're looking at, okay, it has to be Darch because he was the guy with the lightning. Martin Madden's name came up in Anaheim because he's a Quebec guy and he knows how to deal with prospects and stuff. and that's a point of issue with the Montreal Canadians, we may very well end up with somebody nobody really thought about. A friend of mine made the point to me the other day, when Mark Bershman was hired as the Montreal Canadian GM, I can't think of too many people who thought of him as the guy.

I don't think he was hyped up. I'm trying to remember, I think Pierre Maguire got more hype for that job than Mark Bershavit did. So, yeah, it wouldn't surprise me if the name that we see as the GM for the Montreal Canadiens is a name that we, We probably didn't think about that much in comparison to some of the other names that are out there. And they end up getting their bearings in this position through this job. I think you make a great point about the dynamic with Jeff Gordon because I think it changes the way you can make this higher.

I think you can like we talk a lot about like players when you're drafting them like the guy with the high ceiling, the guy with the low floor. To me, if you don't have Gordon, you've got to be like this, we can't get this wrong. You almost have to make the safer choice. Like, pick someone that we know won't screw this up with all the pressure that there is. But I think with Gordon, like you said, it kind of allows someone to grow on the job, someone to learn. You can go for that higher ceiling. Like, look, this person may not have the experience, but we love the way they think hockey. Like they, like, I agree with you.

I think it could be someone from out of the left field. And it could be someone that they think maybe isn't the best person for the job right now, but they can grow into it. And the dynamic with Gordon allows that. And to add that, too, I didn't even mention Emily Castangay and Danielle Sauvejo, both two feet, two women, obviously, who with the Canadians thinking of trying to be a little bit more diverse, we know they did that with their new VP of Com's job, hiring longtime reporter Chantan Maccabay. That's also another option for them as well, two great hockey minds, Savaggio being around different teams and Castangay being a player agent. And I think there's the possibility for them to go out of left field and just find somebody new. And you'll notice I didn't mention Patrick Cuis name because, well, that would just, as far as I'm concerned, be a nuclear option at that point.

Because, I mean, I know he's been around different teams and I know he has that pedigree there. And we all know what he's done with the Montreal Canadians. I still just think he's just too volatile for that job. And I still think of him as somebody who ultimately wants so much power in Quebec with the Romp R. Like, he is, like, he's all pretty much everything. Judge Jury and Executioner with the Quebec Romp R. I can't help. I don't, would he really want to be in a situation where he works in tandem or, or below Jeff Gorton? If that's what truly is the situation there, I'm not convinced he wants that. I can understand why the Canadians would want to be in a position where they want to

listen to him. I just don't see Patrick Waugh as this guy. He would have to really change how he goes about things and really impress the Canadians and really make them really like sell them on the fact that he's willing to take a back seat to Jeff Gordon and the rest of the Canadians front office. We're talking about the San Patrick Waugh or is it somebody else you're talking about? That's that's that's it, man. Not happening. That's it.

That's it. Yeah, I don't know, man. Like, that's just, I don't know if he's that guy. And I think at this point for people who want to fly that flag, maybe he's trying to make himself the people's chant because a lot of fans obviously want that. It doesn't make sense to me. Jeff Gordon would tell him something to be saying, I got my two Stanley Cup rings plugging my ears.

There's no way. There's no way. One of my favorite lines of all time, by the way. Yeah. Sticking with Canadian teams, we were talking as we were waiting for you to come on the show. And we're looking at games played because obviously the schedule is a complete and total mess right now.

But Vegas is leading the way right now with 39 games played, all the way down at the bottom. You got the Islanders with 28, Yes, 28. And of course, the Canadian teams, as we're seeing so many of these games being postponed by choice, it's causing a huge mess. And you look at a team like the Edmonton Oilers, now just on the outside looking in, they're free falling. Is this going to create just a crazy situation where you've got teams trying to get themselves back in a playoff spot,

playing five and seven, and just run out of gas? Or on the other side, they do actually get themselves back in a playoff spot and the playoffs start, and they are out of gas. I mean, this seems like the end of this year is going to be just a mess. Yeah, if you're a schedule maker, man, like, I do not envy your job. But I also wonder how much of a, you know, a case-by-case situation it is for each of these teams. I'm just going to throw Montreal in here just because I know they're not going to be competitive by any stretch of imagination. But this is a team that was hit so badly with COVID.

And they found themselves in a position where on like New Year's Day, they were basically playing with a roster that would not work out for a preseason game. But since then, they've had the layoff and they've had more and more guys come out of COVID protocol and they're bit by bit. They're eventually going to get to a point where they could field a healthy roster on the ice. I imagine, I don't know the situation for every single team, but for teams that have been hit hard by COVID, for example, like, they might be able to take advantage of the way the

schedule is kind of set and try to heal up and then maybe go on that run. but maybe there are teams, which correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not sure when the Oilers play again. I think there might be some time in terms of when they're going to play again, but because of the fact that they were already in free fall and other teams might be able to step up on them,

that is going to hurt. I think it's a case-by-case situation for everybody. And I think the teams that ultimately are the healthiest, and maybe this is kind of like a captain obvious thing, but with COVID running rampant as it is and affecting locker rooms as it is, we might see a situation where the teams least affected by COVID truly are the ones who take advantage of the situation and end up in those playoff spots near the end.

And teams that either are grossly affected by COVID or were just so pushed far back because they played so badly, the negative the oilers here, they might be negatively affected. I, this is, this might be a hot take. I can see the oilers missing the playoffs. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's really not. that hot of it takes, seeing as they're on the outside looking in right now. I just, I just look at this. And Jesse and I have talked about this a lot with Sarah. COVID protocol is

so crazy because some players that you're suddenly missing because of COVID protocol aren't feeling a damn thing. You know, Jesse's talked about players coming out of code, 10-day quarantine saying, I feel fine. I had COVID a couple weeks ago. I did not feel fine. You know, a flight of stairs for me was was tough. I was, it wiped me out. So when you've got teams being, you know, lost players because of that, and then they're sitting in a hotel room going, this is ridiculous. My team needs me.

I want to ask you about something else. John Klingberg, not a happy guy right now. Has it, it's not public. He didn't say I demanded a trade, but he didn't not say he demanded a trade. Your thoughts on this whole situation and where he might end up, because all I keep seeing is Vancouver, Vancouver, Vancouver, but I guess we'll have to see. I saw an article on the athletic suggesting the Leafs might want him. And the thing I thought about, which was kind of funny, is when I saw the comments where he was essentially saying that he seemed to be pretty disappointed in how the stars were kind of handling it, while also outright saying that, you know what?

I mean, he's not necessarily asking for a trade. I kind of felt that all the unrest kind of surrounding him now, maybe ironically, drove up the market for him. because this is a guy who's going to want some money. This is a guy, I think, being paid a little over $4 million, but he's also $29. Like, he's still got some of his best years ahead of him as a player, but we're not talking about a guy who's going to be entering his peak. We're talking about a guy who's going to be exiting his peak. So I'm very curious as to what the stars might want to offer him and other prospective teams

who may very well be desperate for a player of his ilk, but we also live in the cap world that we live in right now that has not inched all that much in the last few years because of COVID and hockey-related revenue and what have you. Like, John Klinberg's in a really interesting situation. He'll get paid somewhere, and maybe it's in Dallas, maybe it's somewhere else. But kind of thinking of some thoughts, Sean Gentilly said yesterday, like, I kind of feel for him. Like, he's a situation where, like, he played a lot of his, like, in the last few years where he could have easily gotten himself, like a much different contract, like a Kel McCar-esque

contract at like $9 million. but he's already played through much of his 20s, and whatever deal he gets is going to be given with the idea in mind that, you know, your peak, if you haven't already hit it, is coming. You know, like I kind of feel for it. Whatever money he's going to be due to get, unless some GM has amples of cap room to do it, I don't know if John Klinberg wants to go to Arizona.

Whatever he gets, I don't, I don't truly think he's going to feel, he's not going to get fully maxed. out, you know, not that we necessarily have, not that we talk about max deals in the NHL the same way we do in the NBA, but like, whatever he gets, like, you'll get paid. It's not going to be, it's not going to be any more than what I think he would really want, which is something that he probably would have wanted, like, maybe three, four years ago, if he was in the situation, if that makes sense. You're right that the cap isn't moving, but also the defensive, the market for defensemen

is like sky high right. It seems like all the defensemen that have hit the market have been gotten paid, ridiculous amounts. And Wrighties are out of premium too, right? He's right-handed. That is very true. He's a right shot. Alex Petrangelo, who's also a right shot, just signed.

And Klingberg's not Alex Petrangelo, but Alex Petrangelo is much older. And he just got himself a seven-year deal worth $8.9 million a year. I don't expect Klingberg to get that. But I do think that he's young enough to get still a big deal. And especially with the way these contracts have been handed out to defensemen lately. That's a fair point. Like what? like six, seven.

Because you're right. He's not Alexoatrangelo. Like he's not, he's not someone of the same caliber as him, but he's still a very good defenseman. But if he was 25 asking for this, maybe he gets that nine for sure. One more thing before we'll let you go. The H.DA, the Hockey Diversity Alliance and Budweiser released this two and a half minute video had Wayne Simmons, Matt Dunbar, Anthony Declare, Kim, Lou, Chris Stewart, and Trevor

daily and it was kind of highlighting some of the real world abuse that these players go through and the racism that they'd be facing on a regular basis. And this was an eye-opening video. They didn't hold back any punches. They had to blur some things when they did it on TV because of the language they used. But I just wanted to get your opinions, both of you guys on this because, you know, I heard about it. I saw it. And my eye. pretty much popped out of my head. I'll start with you, Julian. This is not a surprise. Players go through this and not even just players, just people want to get into hockey, people want to get into sports, persons of color in different facets of their life go through this. And it's good that you

watched it, Rob, and you felt something about this. It's good that other people are going to watch this and they're going to be like, wow, like this is something that happens. Because the truth of the matter is, it happens. Like not long either before or after the ad campaign was unveiled. There was that story that went out of Prince Ever Island of a hockey player being subjected to racial abuse. And then his teammate sticks up for him by slashing the guy because he feels that the guy doing the abuse is not being properly reprimanded. Like, this is stuff that happens. And this is stuff that has to be eradicated from not just the game of hockey, but just from just culture as it is. However, because we talk about hockey as often as we do because there are the problems with hockey culture.

This is something that poisons hockey culture. So when you see people go out of their way to see something like this and be like, oh, this is, this is a problem that affects everything else and you shouldn't single out hockey culture. I mean, the fact that the players themselves had to be like, hey, we're not in it to disrupt hockey culture and make it a thing. We've made hockey culture into this like buzz term that if you say anything negative about And it's like, whoa, whoa, you're this uppity person who wants to talk smack about hockey culture. Hockey culture is great.

Hockey culture is awesome. Like, well, how dare you come for this game? Well, I'm sorry to tell you, hockey culture at the end of the day, as much as it has benefited us in the positions that we're in right now in terms of the fact that there is hockey and the games that are there, there's some bullshit in hockey culture that needs to be dealt with. And the fact that the HDA wants to address this significant part of it head on and let people know that it's not okay for this to happen is, you know, I applaud them for their bravery and

stepping up to talk about that. But I'll just end with this too. What still bugs me about all the HDA stuff is the fact that the NHL is not as supportive with it as it should be. And in talking with my good buddy, Chris Johnson about it, he's saying, hey, we know there could be a money thing between both sides and how they're negotiating it. I just feel for some of these things, it's not about money, you know, like you have to understand that in the world that we're in right now, so many other people are getting into so many other sports, not just because of the fact that the costs aren't that crazy to get into other sports, but the way that hockey culture is, it will turn people off and get them in other sports. People have to realize that if you fix

hockey culture and you try to at least make it more opening and accessible to some of these other disenfranchised communities or just minority communities in general, you're ultimately going to help save the game. But if you're going to have even NHL players worry about being called racial slurs in games or having stuff thrown at them, like if I'm a young guy watching, if I'm a young guy hearing all that stuff, why would I want to get involved in it? Not to mention it's expensive enough as it is anyway. Like, we have to stop being afraid of saying that hockey culture is bad and thinking,

oh man, like we're going to piss people off by saying that. Like hockey culture as it is needs work. And it's okay to care enough about the game and love the game as much as you do, but also acknowledge that it needs to be fixed. And fixing racial abuse that happens to persons of color in this game is a huge step towards making it better for everyone involved. Well said, Julian. We'll leave it right there. Thanks, buddy.

Always a pleasure having you on. We'll talk to you probably in next few weeks. We got to get you on every now and again just to keep the continuity going. you already know I will make time for you, Pizzler. I will always make time for Jesse. I thought save you would make time for me today. But I understand. They've got other things to do.

I'm not hurt. I'm not hurt. You're disappointed. I don't hurt. I'm not hurt. I get it. I understand. But it all serious, guys, I'll talk to you guys here.

Thanks, buddy. Talk to you soon. Thanks, Julian. Twitter questions coming up right after the break. All right, time of the week where we take a look at your Twitter question. And you know what, Jesse, I'm cheating. I'm going to absolutely cheat. There was one Twitter topic that kind of dominated and people were writing about it.

And I wanted to bring it up. And we're just going to meld this into one Twitter question. And that's involving your piece on Robin Leonard. Every week I ask you and Sarah, what you're working on. You kind of kept saying, I'm working on this piece, working on this piece. I couldn't wait to read it. I did read it. And I immediately texted you saying, just fantastic.

Just a great piece dealing not only with. Robin Leonard, but his influence on mental health. Walk us through a bit of that, just putting that whole thing together because it was far from a hockey story. It was a story that showed that a hockey player could really inspire a lot of people. Yeah, thanks, man. I appreciate that. Yeah, it was a, it was a rewarding story. I learned a lot. It was, I kind of attacked this differently, this story. We've, I've written a lot about Robin Leonard and his openness to mental health. and the things he said. And I didn't want to write this from Robin Leonard's perspective.

I didn't even speak to Robin Leonard for the story. I found the mental health organization, same here, that he's been working with for a couple years. I talked to Eric Kusen, who is doing great work with that organization, trying to change the way we look at the subject of mental health. And through him, I found multiple people that Robin Lennar has touched their lives in different ways. And one person, Robin Lennar actually met her, Gabriella Smith. He actually met her in person and said some, and like she mentioned, like, it was not the interaction you normally see with professional

athletes and fans where they're like, hey, thanks for being a fan. Here's an autograph. Here's a picture. And I'm out. She told him that she struggles with mental health. She's also a goalie. And she said, Robin Lentner's tone immediately changed. She started asking her, how are you feeling? What have you been going through? What kind of medications are you on? Like questions that you do not expect Robin Lennar, like this guy, this professional NHL player who's got a million things to do to stop and ask. And it became a reoccurring trend. Everyone I talked to that had talked to Robin Lennar about anything to do with this said they could not believe how caring he was and how much he wanted to help. And then there are some people who haven't ever spoken to Robin Lerner. They've never

messaged him. They've never had any contact with Robin Lennar, but they're just as impacted by him in his, just him saying, like the thing that stood out to me was Robin Lennar, they've says a lot of really good stuff. And he has great perspectives on things in this subject. But sometimes it's not even the actual words he's saying. It's just the fact that he's talking about it. Just the fact that an NHL player, professional athletes are so trained to hide any sort of weakness, whether it be mental or physical of any kind. You cannot show weakness. And the fact that Robin Leonard is so open about the mental health issues that he struggled with, how he overcame. them. He's an example for people out there that are going through similar things that you can

succeed in whatever you're doing despite that. And I think he's set a great example for a lot of people. He's changed the way a lot of people think about mental health. To me, I think about it differently than I did before this story. Eric Cousin, to me, he has a lot of great philosophies on it, but I think the one that stood out to me was a lot of mental health organizations out there say one in five people have meant struggle with mental health issues. And they're trying to show how common it is, but it's actually unintentionally creating the stigma of, okay, so 20% of you have problems. And then the other 80% you don't have to worry about it. You're good. When that's actually not the case at all. And the way Robin and the way Eric think about

mental health is similar to physical health in that you've got some people who are in phenomenal shape. You've got some people who aren't in as good as shape and need a lot of work. But even the people who are in great shape, you get injuries. You get things that happen to you that suddenly you're struggling with it. And that's how mental health is. We all, we all deal with stuff. And I think if we all kind of thought about things in that way, not only would we help ourselves more? Would we get more help for ourselves when you're not feeling good? You can admit, hey, I'm going through something right now. I need to get help. But I also think we would treat everyone a little bit better when you think about it that like you're not going, you're not the only one going through things. Everyone is. And the person you're talking to it, grocery store, the person you're mad at that pulled in front of you in that lane when you were

driving, we're all going through stuff. You never know what people are going through. If we all just admitted that we were going through stuff and we tried to help everyone, I think we'd be in a lot better spot. And I think Robin Lennar, through doing the reporting for this story, I found out that he's doing a lot to move us in that direction. I think he's ahead of his time. And simply, as you said, by flipping on a light and just showing it. I don't find Robin Lennon. or to be preachy or are doing anything that makes you after a while kind of go, yeah, yeah, yeah, we get it. He's just put a light on it and inspired so many people. So make sure head to the athletic and read that. It was great piece, Jesse. Just great piece. Thank you.

I just got a text from Sarah before we go. She said heartbroken to miss the Kodak Black Convo. If you don't know we're talking about, go to Twitter and just look up Kodak Black. Make sure your kids are not around when you were doing it. You said before we went on the air, you kind of said there was just one of the most enjoyable moments on Twitter that you've had in a while. Walk us through your night as you're seeing the video of Kodak Black getting this grinded hard on. Yeah.

So, so yes, hockey Twitter is a fun place. And sometimes it's more fun, sometimes it's less fun. Last night, I found it to be incredibly fun. George Richards, a reporter for the Florida Panthers, tweeted out, it appears that the rapper Kodak Black, who was attending the game, the NHL had tweeted out photos of him at the game saying, hey, look who's at the game tonight. It appeared he was having sexual relations with a woman in the suite. All like, and not like back in the suite in a room. Like it was like right there. People in the arena were filming it. And everyone had a lot of fun with it. It was pucks in

deep. It was all the cliches that anyone could. Any hockey cliche you've ever thought of, someone found a way to connect it to that Kodak black video. Getting from behind. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. And then someone posts a video from inside the suite showing that it was not sexual relations. It was just a very aggressive dance, very aggressive. And then Sean McIndoo, who we have here on the athletic hockey show, as he always does, he nailed it. That guy has better comedic timing. I do not know someone who's funnier than that guy. He is so good. And he and he, and he, he, he quote tweets the video that says, uh, proving that it wasn't, they weren't having sex saying, man, another time in the NHL where we thought we scored and then video review calls it back. Um, and then, and then the scouting the refs

Twitter, the, that Twitter that all they tweet about is refs tweets it with like after upon review, we couldn't tell if the puck crossed the line. So we were going to leave the call. ass stands on the ice. It was phenomenal. It was it was hockey Twitter at its best. Hockey Twitter. You know what? It could be a great place, a terrible place. Last night was a sexual place. Jesse, it was a blast to do this.

We'll talk to you next week, buddy. Yeah, it was awesome. All right, I want to let you guys know about some other hockey coverage at the athletic hockey show. Michael Russo is going to welcome Capo Kacken on this week's edition of Straight From the Source. And Chris Johnston joins Jonas Siegel and James Birtle this week on The Leaf Report.

Thank you for listening to us on The Athletic Hockey Show. Give us a follow on your favorite podcast platform. Don't forget to leave a rating and a review. It really helps us out a lot. You can subscribe to the Athletic Audio Plus on Apple Podcasts to get all the bonus content from our entire network. You start with a 30-day free trial. Then it's 99 cents a month after that.

And right now you get an annual subscription to The Athletic for just $399 a month when you visit the athletic.com slash hockey show. The Athletic Hockey Show continues Thursday with Ian Mendez, and down goes brown for me, for Jesse, and yes, even for Sarah. We'll see you next week.