The Athletic Hockey Show - Everybody hates Vegas

Episode Date: March 11, 2024

Ian and Laz are back on a brand new Monday edition of The Athletic Hockey Show to discuss the Golden Knights pulling off the heist of the NHL trade deadline, acquiring Tomas Hertl from the Sharks, Torts getting ejected and suspended for two games, the Islanders winning six straight to get back into the playoff picture, whether people would be more annoyed with the Pens or Blackhawks drafting Macklin Celebrini, the Wild getting an overtime win with their goalie pulled and the little-known rules about that, and more.Plus, The Athletic’s NHL insiders Chris Johnston and Pierre LeBrun join the show to help recap the trade deadline and preview next week’s GM meetings, and to close things out, The Athletic’s own Jesse Granger talks to the guys about Vegas’ salary cap situation next season, what a fully healthy VGK playoff lineup could look like, the Devils’ deadline goalie deals, the surprisingly low betting odds for the Canucks and Jets to win the Cup, and more.Get a 1-year subscription to The Athletic for $2 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Welcome back, everybody, to your Monday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. As always, it's Ian Mendez, Mark Lazarus, with you to kick off your week in hockey. We got a full recap with the trade deadline coming up with our insiders, Pierre LeBron and Chris Johnston, Jesse Granger's going to drop by because, you know what, Laz, it's kind of crazy. We always joke about, well, Vegas is going to do something. Vegas is going to do something.

And then they went and they did the thing. I still don't understand how they got Thomas Hurdle. Thank God we have the Vegas Golden Knights in this league. I mean, imagine how boring this league would be without the Vegas Golden Knights. You need a common enemy, right, a villain that every team hates and that everyone respects begrudgingly. Like, I love that Vegas is in this league that no other team does is as aggressive as they are. No other team is maximizing every loophole in the rulebook. What they did is perfectly legal and no other team in the league could pull it off quite as well as they do,

after year with LTIR, with just adding, how does a team that's cap strapped at a guy with six years left on his contract of a huge contract, it's just, they just do it and they're like, screw it. Remember, did you ever watch Breaking Bad or Better Call Saul? Were you into those shows? Breaking, Breaking Bad, yeah. Yeah, Vince Gilligan had this thing where at the end of every season, they would write themselves into a corner.

That's what their writer's room would do. They would just paint themselves into a corner, and then they'd spend the offseason trying to figure out their way out. How do we write this story? How do we continue this story and get ourselves out of this jam we wrote ourselves? And that's what? We got too much money on the books. We'll figure it out in the fall.

I love that about them. It's the way that we should all be doing this. Now I'm just picturing Kelly McCriman looking at his cap and saying tight, tight, tight, tight. Oh, man. I love it. Yeah, it's, you know what, though? I love how much everybody hates it. Yes, what I love about.

you need a villain. Villains are good. It's like when the Patriots were at the top, it's kind of like, God, I think we all loved hating the Patriots, right? Like in the NFL. You almost miss them now, don't you?

You kind of miss them. As much as I hated Tom Brady and the Patriots, I miss kind of having that target to shoot at, you know? And, you know, the NHL really in terms of a pure, like a team, I think those Vancouver teams of the early 20, 10s. I think they weren't liked, right? They were kind of universally, like, people like, we don't like these guys.

But I can't remember the last time. When's the last time an NHL team, like even Tampa when they were winning cups, like I don't feel like everyone just hated Tampa. No. Like, what's the last time a team was hated like Vegas for like two or three years in a row in the NHL? Pittsburgh? Did people really?

I don't think people. People never. Maybe. Maybe. The thing about Vegas. it's got this underlying current of they haven't paid their dues, right? You've got fan bases around the league that have, you've got Sabre fans and Wild fans and Leafs fans and Canucks fans,

all these fans that have just had no joy in their lives, hockey whites for so long. And Vegas walks right in, they go to the final their first year, they went a cup in their fifth year, and they just keep doing this and they're spending. They're like a model franchise right off the bat, and that just infuriates, understandably,

infuriates fan bases that are just tortured all the time. Imagine being a Buffalo Sabres fan or an Ottawa Senator's fan and just seeing what Vegas has and just gritting your teeth and the whole time, grinding your molars to dust. So let me throw out a delicious possibility here. Okay. And down goes Brown, Sean McAdoo wrote about this on Monday. And I've been thinking about this too.

Like, you know, I don't think enough of us realize that right now, as of this recording on Monday, the 11th of March, the Vegas Golden Knights are holding down the last playoff spot in the There are sub-500 teams since that 11-0-0-1 start. So can we just throw out, since we all hate Vegas, apparently, wouldn't you want them to have to suddenly start looking at their rearview mirror? But I know it's a bit of a gap, right? It's eight points right now.

Yeah, they're not in a lot of danger. But that's what other franchise goes for it that aggressively. at the deadline when they're in a wild card spot. Exactly. And you're in a conference with Dallas and Colorado and Winnipeg and Vancouver. Like this is the most loaded conference we've seen in years. And here's Vegas, a sub 500 team for four straight months going, screw it, we're going for the cup.

That's what you want your team to do. That's what every fan should want their team to be. First round picks, whatever, don't care. Prospects, whatever, don't care. Get me the cup right now. So I'm just saying, wouldn't it be funny if like Seattle, went on a heater. And Vegas just kept playing their usual.

You're basically been a 500 team for the last three months, right? Like, roughly. Like, imagine the last 20 games of the year, Seattle goes on a heater and they're like 15 and 5. And Vegas is just 10 and 10. And Seattle speaks into the playoffs. It'd be great, right?

I mean, this is the chaos you want. Like, that's what you need the villain to step on a rake every now and then, right? And that's what it would only add to the, because everyone will be able to point and laugh at Vegas. And then next year they come back and they're great again with this loaded roster and everyone's healthy. Like there's so many facets to this that no matter what happens to Vegas, it's good for the league

in some way. You need a team like this. You need a reckless, aggressive, hateable, but kind of lovable at the same time team. I love Vegas. I'm so glad they're in the league. See, the problem is if you're a Buffalo or Ottawa fan, your side show Bob with the Rakes. That's how it is. After rate.

After break. And you just see this Vegas team roll in. But anyway, I agree with you. Having a villain is fun. So we'll talk about that. When Granger joins us, I can't wait to grill up. Jesse Granger should have to take a one-year sabbatical. And we all choose where he goes.

Yeah, he should have to cover like the Blackhawks for a year. No, you've had your cops. I want him coming to Ottawa or Buffalo or. like somewhere where just like just let's toss jesse it'd be like a reality show you take a writer from a successful team and you parachute them in beat swap and you see what happens yeah and then you give someone you give like you know fairburn or uh or or you a chance to cover like an actual successful team for once and see what it's like yeah cover to write a to write a game story that has some meaning to it for once in your lives my god it's like wasn't there a uh uh uh they actually did a reality

show, the thing where like you take like Amish kids when they're like 16, 17, they're allowed to and I forget their year of fun. Yeah. In Rum Spring, I think might be the term. Is that it? I think that's what it is. I think that's what it's called. And they get up. That's as a beat writer covered in Ottawa, where's my rum spring? I want my just let me go for one year. Let me have my fun. It's funny.

This is my 12th season covering the Blackhawks and I have never covered a regular season of consequence. I have never covered a regular season game that had any weight to it whatsoever. 12 seasons. They were either too good to care or too bad to care. Because when they were good, they didn't care about seating. They won the cup as a 60. They didn't care. And every March was just waiting for the playoffs. Now that I've covered them and they're awful for five, six years, the regular season doesn't matter. They're never contending. When they're in March, they're just trying to get to Mexico for the spring. It's just, I haven't covered a meaningful regular season. I watch guys like Russo and Joe Smith and, you know, Max in Detroit, you know, Stap and Peter Baugh covering the

Islanders. And like, these teams are scratching and clawing and desperate. Every game is like the end of the world. The guys in Pittsburgh have been like that for a couple of years. Yoie and Rossi. And I have never experienced that in the NHL where I've, this is 15 NHL seasons I've covered and not one meaningful regular season game. All right, Laz, I'll tell you what. I know you and I were really surprised about the Thomas Hurtle stuff at the last second to Vegas. Let's go, let's find out what it was like on the floor inside the TSN studios where Pierre LeBron and Chris Johnson, our athletic insiders, were on Friday at the trade deadline. So guys, take us through it because I think all of us were stunned on the outside with that

Vegas stuff. Take us through how that all came down from the inside. Well, I was sitting beside Bob McKenzie, the legend. So I kind of had the closest view of the drama. And I don't know how much of how the sausage is made that we should share here. But we got some intel as a group that San Jose in Vegas is probably the trade before we knew who it was. So to be fair, we were focused on San Jose and we were making calls. And then Bob, and we're about to come. Bob's like, has the hand up like this.

And I think I know what he's going to say, but it's still, we heard it just like the rest of the country, the rest of the continent. And Bob McKenzie's like Thomas Hurdle to Vegas and the studio, and, you know, we've got so many people in the studio. You could just hear, like, everyone's jot dropped throughout the TSN studio, him breaking that story. And again, Bob jokes all the time, you know, he's an outsider now. He's semi-retired. So, you know, he just drops in the trade center and drops the biggest story of the day. That's Bob McKenzie. Right.

And even when we were working on that deal, when we knew that those teams were talking about something, I don't think hurdle was our focus at any point. I think we were going through some other options that maybe made sense. You know, obviously San Jose did have some players on expiring contracts. They didn't end up trading something that would have been much smaller and more forgettable. And, you know, Thomas Hurdle didn't appear on the athletic big board at any point. He wasn't on the TSA tradeway board. I mean, that was not a name that was circulating in any way, shape, or form.

And so that's the reason for the excitement and for the surprise, because I really don't believe anyone had that on their radar until the trade dropped just before 3 p.m. Eastern Time. And that never happens, right? I mean, you guys are so plugged in going into this thing that, like, how often are you completely blindsided like that? So, yeah. And Mark, that the funny thing is when I interviewed Kelly McCrimand on Saturday for that piece

I wrote. He took, I think, a lot of satisfaction in pointing out in our interview. And we've been talking since the All-Star break and no one got win of it. And that's the way deals should be made. And I'm like, I disagree with you. But, you know, yeah, he took great satisfaction and none of that leaking. And I think part of how that can happen. And it does happen.

A couple of years ago, CJ can probably refresh my memory. I think Detroit and Washington had a hockey deal at the deadline. I think Varana for Manton. which came out a completely left field. Like that wasn't a, you know, no one was on that. So it does happen. But I think though, too, in this particular case, you can keep it pretty quiet because it's not like the sharks were shopping hurdle to other teams. This was a very specific Vegas going to San Jose trying to feel out Thomas Hurdle because Thomas Hurdle had a full no trade, full no move.

In fact, he had told me earlier in the year when he was in Toronto that he was going to. wait till after the season to think about his future. So that's kind of, that was my last thought about Thomas Erdell, is that he seemed pretty resolute, not wanting to move during the season. But obviously, Vegas gave him a lot to think about. And over time, he got himself to a place where he was ready for this. Plus, he's out with an injury. So, I mean, he's not even playing games right now, which, you know, it's another reason he's just sort of out of side out of mind in that situation. And you're right, it does happen. Even the middle stat for Byram trade that happened a couple days before the deadline was not one that, I mean, I can't say I'm totally

surprised either those players would move. Like I had heard certainly Byron's name a little bit this year, but, you know, I didn't see that trade coming at that time. So, I mean, we can't pretend we know everything. It's not all, it's not all a chessboard where we're controlling the pieces. And so sometimes we do get to side swiped a little bit. So you guys are both going to be at the GM meetings next week. And I'm wondering, how much of a topic do you think LTIR is going to be like are there going to be some general managers who are yelling you know that that Vegas is shenanoganaganizing here that this is this is a mockery of the rule I don't even know if shenanoganaganizing is a word but do you guys think that this is something that the

general managers are going to say this has to stop or is Vegas just super creative and they're they're just playing by the rules so I think you have to peel it back for one moment before we hit this and yes I think it's possible it's a topic next week But number one, this was brought up in a meaningful way two years ago at the GM's meeting. Chris and I were there. And again, it had to do with Tampa and Kutra off to some degree Vegas. They brought it. And Ken Holland delivered a proposal to the league in that GM's meeting two years ago about some kind of mechanism to have some kind of cap in the playoffs.

We wrote about it. We talked about it on TSN. And essentially the league, after saying it would give it some thought, if you remember, C.J., Bill Daly said, we're going to, you know, we've got a lot to take away here. I think we were at maybe the Cup final, Betman Daily News Conference, where Daley come out and said, yeah, we're not going to, we thought about it and we're not doing anything. And that was it. I mean, the conversation really ended in that moment, and I think people forget all this

because we have short-term memory. So this was brought up in a very, very meaningful way because some managers were keyed in on it a couple of years ago. It might come up again. And I don't know how Chris feels or Ian and Mark, how you guys feel from your conversations. I will tell you that I'm not feeling the same level of other teams saying Vegas is doing this, doing that. I'm not getting that as much as some managers saying, do we need to look at the system as a whole for all 32 teams. Like, in other words, not a Vegas thing.

Just a, you know, this LTIR have to be cleaned up. I'm not hearing the same level of, you know, Vegas is cheating. In fact, I had managers go out of their way to say to me over the weekend, And we know they're not breaking any rules. They're a smart team maximizing what the system is. The conversation is more global, I think, potentially. You know, what would benefit everyone, including the players, by the way. The players should have a stake in this via the NHLPA.

I think the problem here, and I think everyone realizes it, is there's no easy solution to this. If you have a bunch of guys injured in the playoffs, you still have to be able to field the team. So there's no easy way to put the cat back on in the playoffs. like this is a product of the way the system works and Vegas is utilizing the system to its maximum capability because they keep having major injuries to major players.

A lacerated spleen is not, you know, pretend injury. Like it's just, you know, Chicago did this in 2015. Tampa did this in 2019, I want to say. Vegas has done this a couple of times now. They missed the playoffs once doing this. It's not even a guaranteed indicator of success. There's just no way to fix this. There are guys that get hurt in a long hockey season

and you can't feel the team. if you're not allowed to go over the cap with that. So the system is easy. Get rid of the cap, right? I mean, that's actually, and we all know, well, we all know that's not going to happen, but that's why the league doesn't want to even have discussions about a cap in the playoffs, because if you go down the, if you follow the sort of stream of thought here far enough, you just get to, you know, where the most logical conclusion would be some kind of soft,

softening of the cap, whether it's a luxury tax or something that allows teams to go over. And then it's, you would eliminate any idea that there's a problem immediately. if you do that. If you're going to have a hard fixed cap, then what Laz says is right, you could get to the playoffs. And if you enforce it in the playoffs, you can have a team play with 15 skaters in a game. And then we're all going to say, hey, does that make sense? Like, is that fair? There's actually no solution, truthfully, except for do something with the cap mechanism itself where there's a little bit more flexibility and then we won't have these problems at all. And just to refresh everyone's memory, and if I get this wrong, Chris, you correct me. But I believe that the, the, the, the, the, the, The loosely defined proposal from two years ago from Ken Holland and a few other managers to the league was that, you know, you could still have basically a limitless payroll come playoff time because of your injuries and everything. But on game night in the playoffs, your actual lineup should be reflective of the NHL salary cap. So it's sort of a hybrid solution that Ken Holland had proposed. But essentially the league's response, and I'm not trying to be, was that that's a very simple solution to a very complex world. And again, the league kind of brushed it off.

So do I think this will be a topic again next week? I think it's possible. But to Chris's point, what, you know, and Mark's point, what is the solution? You know, I don't really see one. So trade deadline comes and goes. And I think every year there's deals that just they almost get done, but there's just not enough time to execute the before the 3 o'clock Eastern Time deadline on Friday. Do you guys get the sense?

and CJ, maybe I'll start with you on this one, is that do you get the sense that, okay, there were some deals that were real close, everyone's going to take a pause, they'll circle back, and we might see some deals for some significant names in and around draft week, for example.

The two that stand out to me are both involved goaltenders, one being Jacob Markstrom in Calgary, who made his displeasure with how his trade process, you know, was handled up top, as he called it, known. And the other was Linus Allmark,

to, you know, won the Vesna last year in Boston. You know, there was certainly some trade discussions around him. He has, it's a 15 or 16 team, no trade list, you know, basically can block trades to half the league. And I think that that might have come into play. Obviously, in Markstrom's case, he has a full no movement clause. But those are both two players I can see as we move forward and get to the offseason, both finding new homes.

I mean, this has got to be the weirdest year I've ever seen the NHL for goaltending. I mean, for all the teams and good teams that, that, you know, didn't seem secure in the net. A lot of them didn't make moves. We did ultimately see a couple, you know, Jake Allen got traded in New Jersey. Obviously, Kacken went from San Jose, also to New Jersey at the deadline. But, you know, I think in the summer we're going to see the merry grow around get spun up here and see a lot of goaltenders sprinkled around the league. And, you know, I would think, you know, Calgary will, you know, once a dot settles there, that it just seems like things are in a spot with Mark's room where, you know, I think he prefer to move on and

it's probably best for him to do that. And in all Mark's case, I just think they're going to sign Jeremy Swam and do an extension. in Boston. You know, they have cap-related challenges like everyone else, and it's maybe a way to free up some money to do some other things. Yeah, bang on. And the market of conversation is far from over. So let's revisit that this off-season.

I should also note, and this may have been noted by others, but my brain was fried this weekend. Because Jake Allen has another year in his deal, I think some people, quick reaction to it was, so that's their solution. it's not past this year. I mean, Jay Callan probably still be on their roster next year,

but my, after making a few other calls on it, my interpretation of what the devil's plan to do is that Jay Callan will be part of a 1A, 1B situation, he'll be the 1B where they'd still like to go out this summer and renew the conversation with Calgary on Markstrom, maybe look at where Nashville is with Saros.

Ascaroff is on the rise in HL, Milwaukee. Nashville's got a decision to make here this summer. So Jake Allen is not meant to be the opening night goalie next year for the New Jersey Devils. Not that he's not a good goalie, but I'm just saying in the perfect devil's vision here, they get a stud and they get the veteran Allen to back him up because we know that coalies have to share the net in today's NHL. That's the plan for New Jersey moving forward. But, but, you know, there are other. Obviously, you wrote about Jacob Chikrinian fine piece today that I thought was timely, especially given, you know, what we know what was going on. I mean, the senators were talking the teams about it.

But honestly, what the senators had hoped or thought, and I don't blame them, is that after Noah Aniffin was moved last Wednesday night, that things would heat up on Chikrin. I really don't think they did that much. And I don't know what that says about how other teams around the league perceive him right now, or is it the fact that he's got term left? Again, we don't see a lot of term guys move mid-season. So we'll see where it goes this off-season,

but I think there's still a chance to get stealth, obviously. There was a lot of talk this year. Like there always is about no movement clause, modified, no trade clauses. Allmark was part of that. Haniffin was part of that. And, you know, the players negotiate that into their contracts. The teams give it to them. That's their right.

Do you expect GMs to ever kind of back off giving those out because they are given out pretty freely these days? Do you think the GMs will ever try to be a little more hard line on the no movement clauses? I think they should, but I don't have to negotiate on the GM side of the table. I mean, you know, I think the hard part of it, lads, is so many players have them. You know, if you go into negotiations with any of your players, they say, well, this guy has it. This guy has. Like, it's almost like the toothpaste is out of the two. And, you know, only a couple teams have really held the line. You know, Nashville is one. David Poyle, it's funny. I did a story on this with Jeremy Rutherford just before the deadline. And, you know, David Poyle went 40 years without giving one. And finally had to give one to Roman Yossi and his latest deal. Then Philip Forthburg got one after. I mean, naturally, these are two. But, you know, that's one team that's held the line. But for the most part, I don't see it unless there's, there's, There's a CBA change, maybe in 2026, that makes it more difficult to do because, you know, it does really impact what happens, right? I mean, the Teresanko, for example, everyone looks at that trade and said, well, they didn't

get very much. Well, he had no trade clause and he only wanted to go one place. So there wasn't a whole lot of negotiating that could be done from the Ottawa end of that, other than, you know, they could decide to keep him, I guess. You know, I do think it's a challenge for teams. And I was astounded to learn in the process working on that piece that the NBA has one player with a with a no trade clause currently Bradley Beal and the NHL has 270 plus players with some form of trade protection. The NBA has had 10 no trade clauses all time ever. LeBron has never

had a no trade clause and go to random roster X and laugh at certain players that have managed to get those into their deals. I mean again, I'm with you good for the players. There's nothing illegal about it, but I do think it complicates a trade market. Well, you know, There is a flip side of the Teresenko thing for one moment. The senators don't get him last summer. I mean, Ian may disagree with me, but I just don't think they get to sign him if they don't give them the full no move. I mean, that's just, you know, that's a conversation.

For some players, you know, when they're going somewhere where maybe they're not sure, just for one year, the no move is part of it. And so, you know, I think Carolina was runner up on Teresenko last summer. I think Ottawa, former GM, Pioradario putting in the no move, was part of cementing that deal. And obviously, it ends up really destroying Ottawa's leverage months later when they're trying to move him because he said Florida or bust. Now, I will say this, if Bill Zito and Florida had decided not to pursue Teresenko, I'm pretty sure that Teresenko was pretty incentivized to go play play playoff hockey somewhere.

So I think the list would have expanded if Florida wasn't interested, but nevertheless, plus, the player gets to control that whole thing from the get-go. Is Florida the new Tampa? I mean, Juru orchestrated a trade there. Tarasenko did. Everybody seems to want to go to Florida now, which is, you know, five years ago would have been a hilarious idea. Why wouldn't you want to go there?

I think players have always wanted to go to Florida, but it was usually players that had nothing left that were just like, it was like the last step before retirement, whereas now, I mean, and Teresanko is an older player. Maybe not the best example, but a lot of guys want to go there now just full stop, right? Matthew Kachuk wanted to go there in the prime of his career. and send an eight-year deal before playing a game. I mean, I'm with you. I think Florida and Vegas probably Tampa is still up there, though.

I mean, there aren't any players who don't love playing in Tampa. Yeah, Dowell is up there too. Chris Tanna, I think, is top two destinations where Dallas and Toronto, Toronto obviously he's from here. And I think he actually would have been signed an extension, had it been traded to the least. But Dallas is up there too. No state income tax.

Good team. So you get the good team, the good culture, no state income tax, and the weather. If you hit all the check marks in the NHL right now, you're, you're, you're, I mean, Foresling proved that in his extension with the Panthers where you would have made about seven to seven half million a year, July 1st of the open market and signs for 5.8 state in South Florida. I mean, you can drive a golf cart to the Panthers practice rink now. Like they open that practice rink in Fort Laud. Literally, guys, go to practice in a golf cart. I mean, and when you see the weather we have in Toronto, I can see what, you know, you're dusted off, your car in the morning and the snow. I mean, I understand.

I'd go to Tampa too if Florida, if someone traded me there. Oh, man. Listen, before we let you guys go, as I mentioned, you'll both be at the general manager's meetings early next week. So I know it's a bit early. Everyone had their mind focused on deadline day. Any sense of what might be on the agenda or what are, what are, what are, what are, some of the pressing issues that the general managers might be chatting about next week. It's a bit early.

Yeah, thanks, CJ. The league hockey ops, Colin Campbell, kind of uses a lot of this week to finalize the agenda, so it's early in the week. But certainly managers will input items. A couple years ago, the GMs created a GM's executive committee. We know that there's been an owner's executive committee. for years, right? There's now a GM's executive committee. I think it's about two years old, CJ, and Doug Armstrong, Ken Holland, Don Waddell, all the veteran GMs that you would assume

would be on. I think Steve Isman are part of this committee. They will meet Sunday the day before the GM meetings and also go over some things that they'd like to see perhaps added to the agenda for next week. So it's a bit fluid right now. Obviously, player safety will be a big part of it. always is. There's been a lot to talk about this year. And so that'll be a big part of it. Again, we mentioned the LTIR also. But I don't know, it's sometimes you show up. And regardless of what's on the agenda, something else will pop up in terms of what people want to talk about. So there's always a surprise or two. Sounds good. There we go. We'll leave it there, guys. And I think we're going to give you a week, well, not a week off.

You're going to be working next week. But it's going to be right in line at the time that we record the pod. So not sure that we're going to get you on next week. But you both deserve some downtime this week after a crazy trade deadline. It'll ramp up again next week. So thanks, as always, for dropping by the Monday pot. Enjoy malingering outside the conference room, Stugian around. The worst job in the world is covering a GM meeting.

Yeah. Not glamorous. It's not as much fun as people think. true. All right. So yeah, next week, don't think we're going to have Pierre LeBron and

Christensen, they're going to be hanging out, like you said, in a hotel lobby, which is just, I've done boring. I've done the owner's meetings and the Board of Governors. I've done the general managers. And one of my favorite scenes is the second day of the meetings,

let's say it's 4 o'clock. And you will see, like you will see 70-year-old men sprinting out of there because they got a plane. Like, guys that you didn't think were that nimble are suddenly nimble because they don't want to stop and talk to the media and they take off. There's like back to, like Chris Cook and I, years ago, and I think we were in, I think it was the Bellagio, we literally chased Stan Bowman into the parking lot, like running after

Stan Bowman. Yeah. Because he found a back door and didn't want to talk after like day, one of the meetings. And we had to like track it on. He was like, he got like one foot in his town car. And we like held the door open to get a couple of questions. You spent like five hours stooging out in this hallway. Just there's no chairs for you.

You keep getting asked by security what you're doing there. And then finally the meeting lets out and they sneak out the back door. It's the worst gig in hockey, I swear. Yeah, no, I'm with you. I'm with you. So we look forward to their coverage from that. They'll take a week off the pod. And look, we kind of, it feels like trade deadline coming on.

We don't need to do winners and losers. People are tired of that stuff already. But what they're not tired of is, John Tortarella and this storyline because this was really interesting to me. He gets a two-game suspension. Look, he gets chucked out of the game. It's the 20th anniversary of them winning the cup. Like, I've torched with the coach, I think.

They brought all the guys back. They're all laughing hysterically up in the box. Like, I remember that. Yeah. I mean, so how do you feel about the NHL's giving them a two-game suspension? and at no point did we ever hear from, Wes McCauley was the guy who actually threw him out, right? Like, Wes is the guy that was like, you're out.

And I've seen the debate get reignited about referees being interviewed, about that type of thing. Like, as hockey fans and as media, do we have enough information on this? Are we okay with, okay, two-game suspension for abuse of an official, you know, conduct that is unbefitting, to a coach, or do we need more, do we need specifics of how we cross the line? No, we need specifics because that line doesn't exist in hockey. Anyone who's like listened to a miced up game, you know, back in the HBO 24-7 days,

players, coaches, they are screaming and cursing at officials, getting personal with officials all the time. And the officials curse right back. That's what's unique about hockey. You know, in baseball, if you give a dirty look to an umpire, you're thrown out of the game after a missed called strike or something like. that. In any other sport, it's like that, but in hockey, they are MFing each other all the time. The refs give it just as much as they take it. So for a guy to have crossed the line, I want to know

what the hell happened there. Because from what I can see, he's just saying, you know, these typical torts on the bench just screaming and cursing, that is standard operating procedure in the NHL. So for a guy to not only get ejected, but then suspended for it, the NHL owes us an explanation on that. And the way that referees are hyper-protected in this league from any kind of criticism shielded from any kind of accountability, it's maddening. There should have been a pool reporter who talked to West McCauley, and we all know Wes McCauley's going to tell us the truth if he gets the opportunity. He's not going to sugarcoat anything.

We need to know. It doesn't have to be necessarily like, this is the exact verbiage he used, but he's got to say he got too personal. He used, you know, some kind of particularly language that's particularly hateful and not just your standard F-bombs. Like, we need to know what happened here that's so different from literally every other hockey game ever played that it earned him a suspension. Yeah, and I wonder though, like, remember, he gets thrown out of the game and now Torch

refuses to leave for like, now, it's only a minute. But it was really funny. It's really funny. I'm not, I'm staying right effing here. And he's almost kind of crossing his, I'm not going anywhere. Now, I think that's a big reason why he's getting the suspension, right? If he just goes off, okay? But I want you to play this out.

a player gets thrown out of the game for hitting from behind or doing something and the player's like, I'm not going anywhere. It wouldn't happen. It wouldn't happen. It only happens because it's tort. It's Torterella, man. This is exclusively John Torterella's story. But the story is he's getting the suspension because of, from what I'm assuming, he's

getting the suspension because the way he resisted arrest basically, right? Exactly. He refused to leave. and that's why he's getting suspended. That's not the story to me. I know why he's getting suspended. I want to know why he got ejected because nobody gets ejected.

How often do you see a coach ejected from an NHL game? It doesn't have it. A Sheldon Keith had happened a couple of weeks ago, right? Michael, yeah, but it's incredibly rare, though. But not suspended. You have to basically throw all the sticks on to the ice or something. You have to throw a tantrum of epic proportions to get ejected. So I don't want to know why he's suspended.

I can put two and two together there. I want to know why he's ejected. What's different about what John Tortorella did this time versus every other game John Tortorale has ever coached? Yeah, but I find the two-game suspension interesting because, you know, Rob Fatoric, who used to coach the New Jersey Devils way back in the day, he took part of the bench.

There's a great, it's gift. You can just Google Robbie Fetorick bench. And he's the devil's coach at the end of the game. He takes the bench, he throws it onto the ice. He's so mad. He got a one-game suspension for that. Like, God Todorella, I got two games. In a playoff race, too.

Like, like, this is a very, every game that, you know, speaking of meaningful, weighty regular season games, that's a massive suspension for the Flyers right now. So when you get suspended as a head coach, I assume that you can't have any contact with your team in that window. He can't, right? He can't do anything. Can he not coach practices even?

That's, I don't know. I, so I, you're a bet's guy. All I was thinking of is I'd love to see Tororella go full Bobby Valentine. Oh, God, yeah. And show up. That was absolutely my first thought when he said he wouldn't leave him. Like, he's coming back with eye black mustache and, you know, fake glasses in the nose. It was 100% going to happen.

But, okay, but I want to know, okay, so he's, he's suspended for two games. Is he allowed to watch from inside the arena or no? Like, could he, could John Torrella sit? the press box. Could John Totorella sit in a club seat? I'm legitimately wondering. I have no idea. I mean, suspended players are still in the arena, aren't they?

They're watching from the press box. They're not like, they're not under house or less. But they're not allowed to take part in practice. Right. So I don't think John Totorella can take part in practice, is my point. It's like a vacation for his players. Good for them. But I wonder, like,

does it also entail, because now in the age we live in, communication is very easy. So even if Tortorella was at home, it's very easy for him to text the video coach in the room to relay something to the bench. Is there a ban on that? I'm sure it's frowned upon. I'm also sure it'd be almost impossible to enforce.

Yeah. But anyway, John Torrella, the two games, and you're right, the flyers are in the thick of a playoff race, and all of a sudden, here come the. Islanders. And they're a hobbit. And remember, Las, when Patrick Waugh took over and they did it, they kind of had a kind of stutter step. We were like, wow, the new coach bounce isn't happening. Too bad for the Islanders. They're a stale team, yada, yada, yada. Guess what? Six in a row. They're winning some games. They got some mojo. Bo Horvatt has looked really good in the last week.

I think it's eight points in four games. All of a sudden, I mean, I don't know if it's at the expense of Detroit at the expense of Tampa or at the expense of Philly. But boy, it feels like the Islanders might be coming along here. Yeah. And that's one of those teams. It's one of those, you know, we always talk about it every year, but it's cliche. They're one of those, I don't want to face that team in the playoffs kind of teams, right? Because, you know, they have two recent final four appearances for a reason. They play a kind of, they play a game that very few teams in the NHL still play. So they're difficult to game plan against. They're incredibly infuriating to play against. They're more physical than most and more structured than most.

Like a little bit away from that since Trots has left. And they've got one of the two or three best goaltenders in the world in Sorokin. So that's a scary team. Right now it's setting up where you start doing the math out of it. It could be a rematch with Carolina in the first round. And, you know, Carolina is the favorite to win that series. It's a much better, deeper, faster, and also a very structured team. But they don't have a goalie and the islanders have a goalie.

That's not a matchup anyone's going to really want because the islanders are just different than everybody else, right? They're this incredibly old veteran plotting physical team, but Barzell's looking really good. Brock Nelson's looking really good. Like you said, Horvats really hot. They're peaking at the right time and they're making a push right now. You know, last week, when you looked at statistical playoff probabilities in the east,

this is a week ago. Detroit was at 80% New York was at 20 As we wake up here on Monday It's almost 50-50 What a difference And so and Max Boltman has written about this today About you know

Iserman was quiet at the deadline Detroit was really going about 10 days ago And it's all evaporating Do you feel like it's It's starting to crumble For Detroit And if so will people say Steve Iserman you should have

done something more at the deadline. Yeah, I mean, as we record this, the Islanders and the Red Wings are tied for that second wild card spot, but the Islanders have a game in hand. They have a better winning, a better points percentage right now. So in theory, Detroit is out of the playoff picture right now. Yeah. Now, I think there's still a lot of people waiting for Philadelphia to kind of fall out of that race. And you can see the Islanders moving up into that third spot in the metro and the, and the Red Wing still being a wild card. That very well could still happen. But Detroit's lost five in a row. They are whatever the opposite, they are crater. They are cratering at the wrong time. If Islanders are peeking at the right time, the Red Wings are

cratering at the wrong time. It's a real concern. This is not a tested team, right? This is not a battle-hardened team. It's still a relatively young, you know, kind of on the upswing team. And this is going to be a big test of their medal. And yeah, for the 900th consecutive trade deadline, the Red Wings weren't very aggressive. They're playing this incredibly slow, long game, trusting the process, the Izer plan, and they never get criticized for it. But this was a year that They looked like a team that could do some damage, and now all of a sudden they're drowning. It's funny because, you know, the Islanders are red hot,

the Red Wings are ice cold, and then there's Tampa. Just there. They're just always there. Yeah, but they seem to be vacillating between the win three in a row, and you'll be like, oh, yeah, the lightning, they're back, yeah, yeah, they got a great. And then they'll lose three in a row, you're like, I don't know. I don't know. Like, I guess, okay, here's my question.

out of those four teams Philly, Tampa, the Islanders, and Detroit, who are you most certain? Absolutely, you know what? Look it, they're making the playoffs. Is it Tampa? I think it's the Islanders, if we're going to be honest. Really? I really do.

I think that they're built for this kind of hockey and they're coming together under a new, you know, finally the new coach is, you know, Wa's fingerprints are starting to be seen. And I just, Tampa's top. man. Tampa, Tampa's in that same spot Chicago was in like 2017, 2018, where they're kind of clinging to this golden era. They're a little on the wrong side of the aging curve. They're still going for it at the deadline. They're still adding, you know, they had to do Claire. They're trying to get better, but they're not quite good enough. I think they get in because I do think

that Philly is going to fade, and I have deep concerns about Detroit all of a sudden. But the team that I would be least concerned about there is honestly the New York Islanders, which is surprising considering how poorly they've played most of the year. But I was able to catch a couple of their games recently. I know it's against weak opponents, but this is what good teams do to weak opponents, is they destroy them. And they're getting hot.

Tampa is just, when that cliff comes, it happens, like you just drop straight down. It's a precipitous drop. Very few teams kind of decline. We're seeing with Pittsburgh now, where all of a sudden, everything catches up to you. And I feel like Tampa is like right on the edge of that cliff and on the verge.

They might have another year or two. two of kind of faux contending, but I mean, they're not, they're not winning again anytime soon. Oh, I want to trademark the phrase faux tending. Poetending, yes, they are faux tending. Potending. Where you're a fainting. Like the Blackhawks, and I remember that 2016, 2017 season, they won 50 games that year. It was, they were, that's a very, very good record.

But it was all Corey Crawford and that one line of Panarin and Isamoff and Kane. They were all smoking mirrors and all season long, you could tell, like, this really isn't that good of a team. And then they got swept by Nashville and then the bottom fell out. So that's happening soon. Sooner than later, it's already happened to Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh is just folded on life. Like they have given up all hope and there's just nothing left in Pittsburgh all of a sudden. But Tampa is, they're trying.

I respect that they're still trying. I don't know how much time they have left, though. Now, we can all agree. Nobody feels bad for the penguins and their fans, right? Like you had your three cups in a fairly tight window, including back to back in 16 and 17. They went for it all. They were really aggressive. But last, like, if you want to ask me right now, and I cover Ottawa, and Ottawa has lost seven in a row, including losing back to back to Anaheim and San Jose this week.

So not a good time in Ottawa. I would still argue the penguins are at a lower place mentally. They're done. They're done. Did they get outscored 15 to 1, right, in their last three games? Yeah, they have quit. Like, they are just done. They are like, you know, the Gensel trade, I don't know.

Once it became clear they were going to trade Gensel, they just quit. Like, they are embarrassing right now. Like, they're, they just, they've waved the white flag and that franchise is in a lot of trouble all of a sudden. You know, they went from Mario to Yager to Crosby. And again, like you said, nobody feels bad for them. They've had like a ridiculous 40-year run of success with like three bad years in the early 2000s. So nobody feels bad, but they are screwed. Like there's no way to fix this.

They are so locked into this lineup. Malkin's got term and Latang's got term and Carlson's got term. Crosby's not going anywhere. They don't buy into any of that nonsense. Crosby's not going anywhere. But so he's going to have term this summer. He's going to like July 1st at noon, he is signing probably a three-year extension. So what do you do?

You are screwed right now if you're piss breaking. Hey, you had your run. Flags fly forever. Nobody's going to complain about how you did it. But boy, are they in trouble? You know what I don't like is you pointed out that this franchise has gone from Mario to Yager to Crosby. And then here comes Macklin Celebrini. Can you imagine?

No, I can't imagine. And that's the problem. I can't imagine it. What would piss all hockey fans more? If Chicago got Celebrini and got Badard Celebrini back to back, or if Pittsburgh got a fourth consecutive generational town? I think it's, don't you think it's Pittsburgh?

I think it's Pittsburgh. There's a lot of more vitriol directed in Chicago these days. I don't know. That would be so unfair to every other fan base. And plus, because Pittsburgh's not going to have like a top three odds of getting it. They're going to be like ninth or tenth odds of getting a celebrity. Exactly. If they get it, oh my God.

Like, it's going to be pitchers. Forks and Torches marching on Midtown Manhattan on the league offices. Actually, we would love to hear. You can always hit us up, the Athletic Hockey Show, at gmail.com, or you can tweet at us or drop it out in the comment section. Answer Lass's question, who would anger you more

if they won the Maclean-Cellibrini sweepstakes? Pittsburgh or Chicago? I think it's Pittsburgh. It's almost guaranteed to be one of those, isn't it? Yeah. It ain't going to be Arizona. Let's be honest. Oh, my gosh.

Hey, you know, we were talking about the Eastern Conference playoff race, which was, it's actually compelling. There's going to be a good race. One of those teams we talked about is going to miss. The West, not so much, as I mentioned, you know, maybe Vegas, they struggle. But if you're Minnesota, you talked about earlier being Joe Smith and Mike Russo and watching the team that you cover claw for every point. We saw that on the weekend. Boy, oh boy, the Minnesota Wild really clawed. for every point against Nashville because John Heinz, their head coach, decided to pull Mark Andre Fleury in overtime, three-on-three overtime of a game that was tied at three.

And, you know, you're thinking, okay, on the surface, yeah, I get it. It's a gamble because you're trying to get your two points. You're trying to stay alive in the playoff race. Yeah, I tip my hat to him. What a lot of us didn't know is the obscure rule that if you put it, Pull your goaltender in overtime at three on three, and the other team comes down the ice and scores in the empty net, you actually forfeit the original single point you obtained at the end of regulation time.

You would skate away with zero points. And I don't think the majority of hockey fans knew that rule or remembered that rule. I don't think the majority of hockey writers knew that rule. I didn't know that rule. Did you know that rule? You know what, last? I absolutely knew that rule because I feel like there was a scenario a few years ago where this came up, but I had forgotten about it.

And if you had, like, if I was watching a game and a team pulled their goalie, my first thought wouldn't be like, well, that's a gamble. You're going to lose the point. I completely forgot. I had no idea. I felt like Donovan McNabb. I'm like, wait, what? What's going on?

I had no idea what the overtime rule was there. I guess, you know, I think it was our producer, Chris Flannery, who said, I guess it's an anti-tanking thing. because you could basically give up points intentionally if you were really trying to tank. I know coach with any self-respect would do that, but otherwise, I don't know what the point is about that, because I love the idea of coaches just saying, screw it.

We need it now. We need two points right now. If you're really chasing, you say it's worth the risk to get those points. You play the percentages. I love the idea, the recklessness and the aggressiveness of it. But I had no idea that was a rule. No, and it's funny because if you just say the rule out loud,

It sounds like something that, oh, is that what the PWHL does? Because it's like an out of the box. Yeah, it's a weird kind of rule. It's a weird rule, but no, it's the NHL. Let me ask you this. I have Mark Andre Fleury in the Athletics Fantasy League, you know, with all the other writers here. I got credit for a win. Why would Flurry get the win?

He was left in a tie game. Nobody should get the win. No goal he should get the win based on the rules of hockey, right? Am I crazy? I get, no, but he's the goalie of record, right? Like, like, it was a tie when he left the game. Is he the goalie of record? But he did, he, he left the playing surface, he didn't leave the game.

You know what I mean? Like, he's on the bench. He's there. He's an active. Yeah, I guess. No. You know what I mean? Because if you're, if you leave a, if you get injured in a tie game,

the guy who comes in is going to be the goalie of record because he's going to get because he left the game. So he left the game when it was tied. And then the game was won while he was on the bench and he's, a goalie, not a skater. I don't know. I'm just saying I've never, I don't think I've ever seen this before. I don't remember this. I, I assume it's happened before. I don't remember it though. Like, it was wild. It was literally wild. Yeah. Yeah. No, I feel like, I feel like this happened early on in like, so the shootouts been, or the three on three stories, been around since what, about

2016, 17, 17, I think it was here. Yeah. 15. 16. I feel like there was like something happened in that early window where somebody thought about this or did this and the same thing happened. But it's been like eight years. So why would we remember? Yeah, no, it's, it's, I love the idea of it. I think it's kind of a cool rule. I never thought of it. I love the, I just, I want to see it come down to like game 82. And a team is, you know, it's like, it's like when you're in football, like you, do you go for the tire or do you go for the win when you score a last second touchdown? Do you trust your team to win in an overtime? Or are, like, do you, do you,

say you need one point to get in but two points to guarantee you get in. Do you go for it or do you make sure you your pocket that one point? There's so many variables to it. I'd love to see it really come down to the wire. Yeah. And you know, that wasn't the only game on the weekend that kind of went into extra time that

had people scratching their heads. So Buffalo Edmonton on the weekend as well had Owen Power scoring an overtime winner and everybody, you know, people are leaving the arena, he scores a buzzer-beater, well, guess what?

It goes to video review and it's offside. Everybody's got, everybody's got to come back. Now, the Sabres do eventually end up winning. But all I can think about is, how would you like to be a Sabres fan and think, you know what? My God, for once in this building, you called back an overtime goal.

Where was this in 1999, right? Yeah, no kidding. It's a tough mental reset for a player, though. I've written about this in the playoffs, like when you give up a goal, like a six on five goal with like 10 seconds left in a game. And you are so close to winning a playoff game. And then you have to sit there in the intermission and kind of like reset your brain. You thought you had it and then you didn't to kind of like the oilers thought they had lost. And there's a there's a flood of emotions that come with that.

You know, and a physical and mental kind of relaxation that comes after that. And they had to come back out. Like they came back out onto the bench when they were called back to keep going after the goal was overturned. They didn't look too happy about it. Like they just were just got a repree from the governor, you know, moments before they flipped the switch. And they didn't look too happy about it. I think they were like their brains were scrambled because I don't think, you know, your average, you know, non-hockey player understands the mental gymnastics that are required to come back from something like that. So I'm not surprised they lost anyway because it's really difficult to come back.

It's, you know, if you have a wind taken away from you, you're just angry and you have all that anger and that emotion is still there. But when you lose, there's like this feeling that washes over you that could take hours to kind of move on when you're a hyper competitive athlete. So I was fascinated to watch the Oilers kind of begrud, you know, just trudged back into the ice when they had just gotten a second chance. They didn't even look too happy about it. So, you know, the people I was thinking about, I was thinking about the security guards at the Key Bank Arena. Okay, and I'll tell you why. So let's play this out. Owen Power scores the overtime goal.

Sabers win. Everyone's celebrating. Now, presumably, thousands of fans headed for the exits. They leave the exits and then potentially either somebody text them, folks, word starts to spread. Oh, the game's by God. Now, no reentry. Exactly.

Every NHL arena has a big sign that says no reentry. So my question is, if you're working security there, what do you do? Do you say, like, sorry? Or do you're like, what's the protocol there? You leave, you're gone. You're not getting back into that building. But couldn't you argue that you left under false pretenses that you thought the game was over? That's a risk. That's a risk you take as a fan by leaving, right? If you leave in the third period of a blowout and, like, you get to your car and you hear that your team just, scored like two goals in 20 seconds, you don't get to come back in. You made a choice to leave. You didn't, you didn't, you know, wait until it was etched in stone in the league offices. So it's a bummer, but that's what happened, man.

Really? So you wouldn't have any sympathy. There is no way they were allowed back in. Not in our modern world. There's no way they let them back in. What do you do? Okay. I want to you to put on not your media hat, but your fan hat. Okay. And Mark Lazarus is at an NHL game with one of your kids, and the score is 8 to nothing with about four minutes left, five minutes left. Does Mark Lazarus get up and leave and say, let's beat the traffic? Or does Mark Lazarus stay because, hey, we stay to the end of the game? If I'm with my kids, I probably left at the second intermission because they got bored and didn't want to be there anymore.

My kids, I cannot get them into sports no matter what. It's just not their jam. So if I were there myself, you know, with some buddies back in the day, I would say to the end. I was always a, I was a bitter ender, as they say. But I know with my kids, I would have been long gone by that point. But on the weekend, they did the, was it the Big City Greens game again? Yeah, yeah. So is that, like, did your kids watch, did your kids watch that? Is that a way to, like, can you legitimately, like, draw the kids in with that type of broadcast?

I was in Washington. I was in Washington. So I couldn't, I couldn't like sit them in front of it. But last year's game when they did it, my daughter, my younger daughter watched like a period and a half. That's not her show. If they had like a bluey version of it or an avatar of the last airbender version of it, she would have been all over that and she would have been transfixed. Like Big City Greens is just not a show in our house.

It was the amazing world of gumball or something like that. There are Teen Titans Go. There were ways you could do it. Big City Greens just isn't the avenue in our house. But my daughter last year, she watched it. And when I got back from D.C., I asked my daughters if they had seen it. They're like, no, but I'm like, it's on Disney Plus. It's like, oh, can we watch a little bit of it?

And I put it on and they watched a little bit of it. So it's, it's, I am all for creating any kind of entry point you can for young fans. Like, I was lucky. I grew up in a house that loved hockey. Both my parents loved sports. So I learned, they just kind of instilled it in me. My kids aren't built that. I've tried.

They're just not into sports that way. But that's a way that, like, the mascots were a big way where my daughters know a lot about hockey just because of the mascots, that was an entry point for my family. This kind of thing is going to be an entry point for a lot of fans. The Nickelodeon stuff that the NFL does, this is how you do it. You create alternate broadcasts that aren't full of like, no, I want all the analytics and I want all the information. An eight-year-old doesn't want that stuff.

An eight-year-old wants fun. And there's ways to do this now with the technology we have. We have these, you know, more of these day games that are kid-oriented, more of these broadcasts that are kid-oriented, more mascot stuff out in front, Center. This is how you grow the game. It's not by having a game in China or something like that or Australia. You grow the game by making it more accessible to kids. You have to grow new fans, like literally to create fans out of them. And that's how you do it. You don't do it with international hockey much as I love it. That's not what grows the game. What grows the game is it's like the

tobacco companies, man. You've got to get them while they're young. All right, last, let's bring him in. We said he's got the best job in hockey. We're all envious of him because he covers a team that is perennially a Stanley Cup contender. He is a Jesse Granger. And he drops by, as always, as a presentation of BetMGM, the exclusive betting partner with the athletic. So, ho-hum, another trade deadline for Jesse Granger, where the Vegas Golden Knights go big game hunting and get the guy that they want. I mean, we were all shocked about Thomas Erdle. What was your surprise?

I was a little surprised it was Hurdle, just because they were. the term left on his deal. I don't think anybody was really thinking he was one of the guys available. But I, if it would have been Bouchnavich, which is a guy that was rumored to be available, I wouldn't have been surprised at all. I thought they were definitely. I mean, you could see in the way they were completing the trades that they were leaving, they were intentionally paying extra to leave themselves more space for another move. So they traded for Manta earlier in the week. And I'm like, don't worry, that's not the move. That's just something to set it up because you could see the way they retain the salary. And then even when they made the Hanifah

trade, which for most teams, that's your big deadline splash. But you could see they paid Philly an extra fifth round pick to get that cap hit down to only $1.25 million. So it was like, they didn't pay Philly that pick for nothing. They're clearly going to make another move. I figured it'd be a big winger. I wasn't expecting a center and hurdle with six years still left on his deal. But really good player.

So we'll see how he looks after coming back from that knee injury. So what is the cap situation right now in Vegas? When everyone's healthy in the fall, is this going to be a cap-compliant team? Or are they going to have to make some drastic measures? Well, in the fall, so they have some key UFAs, pending UFAs. And to me, what this deadline, if I'm one of those UFAs that doesn't have a deal, I'm sitting there like, so have I been replaced or am I still get it? Like, that's the question to me is they're going to be able to sign.

I believe Hanifan will get an extension. And obviously Meyer still has a ton of term left. I think you look at the key ones. Alex Martinez is probably done or coming back on a very, very cheap deal. I mean, he's the oldest player on the team. He hasn't looked himself this year. He has been playing through some injuries, but he's at the age where you expect to drop off.

So he makes over $5 million. So that's a pretty big hit that is coming off the books that can go towards Hanifin. The big one, I mean, William Carrier is another UFA and he's a key guy. He's been a kind of key piece to this team since the beginning on the fourth line. But the big one is Jonathan Marcossoe, leads the team in goals, won the conference, Smyth last year, fan favorite here in Vegas, he needs a new deal. And to me, when I see a big contract in Tomas Hurtle coming in, that was my first thought was I wonder what this means for Jonathan Marshall's going forward. So, exactly. Let's imagine game one of the playoffs. And look,

Mark Stone has lacerated spleen. So this isn't, this isn't something that we can guarantee that he's back, right? But let's say Stone is back and they get a hurdle. And you get like, everything What do they look like? What are those lines look like? What does the top six look like in Vegas? Yeah, I mean, they're going to be stacked, obviously, because they'd be well over the cap if everyone was healthy. It's Bruce Cassidy, the way he structured his lines last year

was he liked to spread the depth. So I would expect them to be four lines deep. And, I mean, Ikel, Barboshev, Marcia, so was the best line in the playoffs last year. Cassidy's gone back to that line whenever things are like, The moment Eichel came back from his injury, he put that line together straight away. So I would expect those guys to be on the top line. Chandler Stevenson and Mark Stone have played together basically Chandler

Stevenson's entire tenure here in Vegas. So I would expect that to happen. I think Meyer is going to, it's going to be fascinating to see because I think Stevenson will probably get bumped to the wing because Vegas already had four awesome centers with Eichael Carlson, Chandler Stevenson and Nicholas Wa. So I would think that of those four, I think Stevenson is the most likely to get bumped. So maybe a line of Hurtle Stevenson Stone would be your second line, which is pretty impressive. And then you'd have William Carlson down on the third line, a shutdown center. And

Anthony Mantha, the other deadline rental would also be on that third line with Carlson. And then you've got your traditional fourth line, which is the, we're going to put you through the glass line of Carrier, Colissar, and Nick Waugh down on the bottom. So yeah, they'd be very, very. And then on on defense, you put Hanifin up on that top pair with Petrangelo. They were already one of the better top pairs in the league. I think Hanifin is a massive upgrade over Alec Martinez. So you've got Hanifin and Petrangelo on the top pair, McNabb and Theodore, and then probably Alec Martinez with either Nick Hague or Zach White Cloud on the bottom pair. They've got a lot of depth. So Ian and I were talking earlier in the show about how everybody hates Vegas and that that's a good thing. The league needs

that. What is the vibe in Vegas? Does the fan base there know how much they're reviled, not just because of the way the team operates so aggressively, but also because they didn't quote unquote pay their dues, who's all that nonsense here. Do they know how reviled they are and do they revel in it? Do they resent it? What is the vibe out there? Yes, Vegas fans are very aware of how much everyone hates them. And it's funny because what winning a Stanley Cup will do,

I feel like before they won the Stanley Cup, I think Vegas fans were a little more annoyed that everyone, like if someone said, oh, you don't deserve it, you don't know anything about hockey, you're a bandwagoner that jumped on, they would get upset about it and like try to defend themselves. No, I've watched hockey my whole life. Whereas post cup, I think Vegas fans are reveling in it.

They're like, yes, we are the evil empire. We are totally okay. They're like wanting Vegas. Find another loophole in the salary cap that will piss everyone off even more. Like, let's just do it as much as we can. Yes, Vegas fans are very aware. The feeling, I think, has changed since winning the cup. They're enjoying the hate a little bit more.

And I think it's also just, it's, they enjoyed the cup win, obviously. But I think you guys mentioned like luckiest speed rider. I get to cover the team that always wins. I also, there's never a boring day. I mean, this team, they run this team like every fan says their team should be run. It's a lot of fun to cover because it's just they, every free agency, every trade deadline, it's on to whatever the next big thing is. Let's try to make that move.

And if we make a mistake, we'll just, to me, and I wrote this after the deadline, to me, the most impressive thing about the aggression that Vegas is using is their ability to just accept a sunk cost. mistake and just move on from it. And you have to be able to do that if you're going to be this aggressive because you're going to make mistakes and have bad contracts and have bad trades. A lot of GMs, I think, will make a bad decision and stick with it to prove that they were right on it. Like, no, this player is going to work.

Best example is the first deadline ever for Vegas. They traded a first, a second, and a third for Tomas Chatar. It was a disaster. He was a healthy scratch in the playoffs. Most teams would have tried to make it work with Tomas Chatar, I think, after giving up all that draft capital. Vegas, the very next off season, they're like, ship them out for Max Patch Ready. Max Patch Ready comes in.

He scores some goals, but it's not working. We're running out of cap. Ship them out for nothing. Well, you just traded a first, a second and a third for Tatar. Then Tatar, an extra draft pick and Nick Suzuki, all for Patch Ready. And you just say, nothing in return. Get it out of here. Open up the space so we can make three more big moves.

I feel like that's something that most GMs aren't willing to do. And Vegas has been willing to do it. And it's part of the reason this aggression has worked. Yeah, most general managers just double down, right? They double down on their original mistake. So, Jesse, look, we bring you in every week, and we love to chat about goaltending around the league. And I want to ask you about what New Jersey did at the deadline,

because as Pierre LeBron and Chris Johnson told us earlier in the pod, you know, Jacob Markstrom was a name that could have been moved, still connected to New Jersey. But the Devils ended up, it's almost like they were like, you know, the old thing with like, two toddlers in a trench coat and that feels like what they did here. Instead of going to get Jacob Markstrom,

they got Jake Allen and Capo-Cackettin in a trench coat and they're like, maybe this will work. If they can both guard the net at the same time, they might be as effective as Jacob Marksroom, yes. Yeah, what did you make of their decision to go with this route? So on the surface, I agree with you. And initially I thought like, okay, well, they did need a goalie. Those are goalies.

We meet the legal definition of goalie. That was my initial thought. But then I listened to Fitzgerald's presser. I looked a little deeper into this. I actually think the best option for New Jersey was getting an elite goalie. I think this was the second best option because what Fitzgerald did was, the Vanichette contract was hurting them. It was preventing them from going out and getting a big goalie because now you've got a ton of cap hit.

So what he did was he said, okay, I'm not going to get my goalie right now. The price on Markstrom was too high, whatever the case was, I'm not going to get my guy. Let me set myself up with the best opportunity to get my guy this summer, especially because we're not even sure if the devil's going to make the playoffs. So what you do is you trade Vanichick for Kaepen who, Kackinen, who's having a good season, but that's, he even said, his president, it has nothing to do with Capo Kackin. I, like nothing against the guy, but I did not acquire Capo Kacken. I acquired a UFA, a contract that will be coming off my books.

Jake Allen, very cheap veteran. They had Montreal retain on him. So now you have Jake Allen at even a better discount. He's one of the best backup goleys in the league just from a talent standpoint, a locker room standpoint. He is the perfect backup goalie. So I think you set yourself up to go big game hunting this summer. I think there's going to be now the free agent class for goalies, not great.

I would say Anthony Solars, who's playing great down in Florida, he's probably the biggest goalie, which tells you not a great market. But Markstrom could be available for trade. UC Soros. Linus Allmark will almost certainly be available for trade because Jeremy Swamon is going to get paid this year. And it looks pretty clear the Bruins have are choosing him as their guy going forward. He's younger. He's having a great season.

So I think Allmark will be available. And there's still John Gibson. He'll be only three years left in that contract. I feel like the closer he gets to the end of that contract, the more likely Gibson is going to be moved. So to me, there's four big time goalies that could be available via trade. Might not happen. We saw it with Hellebuck this last summer. It didn't happen.

And then obviously at the deadline, none of them went. But I think Fitzgerald has set himself up to, I will be surprised if the devils don't have a big name goalie going to the next season. All right. Let's look at the cup contention show. I was on the bed MGM site looking at the team odds or who's going to win. And there's a lot of the usual suspects. Now, gambling odds, and I think a lot of fans sometimes don't realize it's not driven by anything other than who's betting.

It's driven by the money. Who are the best value bets out there right now? Who are people sleeping on? Yeah, I was just looking at them post-dedline, and to me, what stood out was the two teams with the best records in the entire Western Conference are 10th and 11th in the odds. They did not have the flashiest deadlines.

I would say Vegas obviously had the flashiest, but Colorado had a big deadline that a lot of people talked about, obviously the hurricanes. But the Vancouver Canucks and Winnipeg Jets are both 10th and 11th best odds in the league at 15 to 1. Compare that to like the Panthers are six and a half to one. The avalanche are six or seven and a half to one. The Oilers are seven and a half to one.

There's not a lot of belief from the betters out there, apparently according to the odds in the Canucks and Jets, despite playing some really good hockey. And like when I look at those teams, I feel like not only are they good, they check all the boxes that you want in a Stanley. Like they've got the goal tending. They've got the goal scores.

Like I don't, other than lack of them doing it in the past, I don't see a reason to not believe in Winnipeg or Vancouver. Well, also they're in Canada, which is a mark against them in terms of winning a Stanley Cup usually. That's true. Wow. Do you believe it to mean?

It's been a while. It's all the same. It's been a while. But do you think part of it, too, is Vancouver traded Lynn home early. Winnipeg traded for Monaghan early. I know they still got the Foley, but it was almost like they did their shopping early. so that when the deadline came, people were like,

well, they didn't do that much. But if they did that, those moves on Friday, would we be looking at them differently? I just feel like Winnipeg lives in its own bubble, right? Like, Winnipeg is just, nobody ever thinks about Winnipeg. Nobody in the league ever has Winnipeg on the mind. It's like they just kind of exist out there, this cute little team out there.

That's a powerhouse that they've built right now. And I just, it's just a team that people are asleep. They have the best goalie on the planet. in Connor Hellebuck, and they got a really good team in front of them, and they added at the deadline. That's a team to jump on. Like Vancouver, you want to still talk about the PEDO. We're a little late in the year to be talking about PDO, but all right, fine. But Winnipeg, that's a legit team.

And I know the West is just absolutely loaded. But that's the best, that's the team that if I had to put money on, that's the best value bet to me. Winnipeg? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I agree. And I agree with Ian that if they had made these moves a little later, I think it would have the feeling would be different. I think a lot of people do discount their deadline because they made those

moves earlier. For me, it's like when I look at the PDO for Vancouver, yes, it's probably going to come down a little. But to me, some teams are built to have a high PDO. Like this team has an amazing goalie. So shocker, his safe percentage is higher than normal. They've done this for almost six months now. At what point are they just this? And then they're also like you look at the type of offensive players, Vancouver has, they're snipers. Like this team has sniper after sniper after sniper. So it's like, wait a minute. That team has a really high shooting,

shooting percentage and safe percentage. Oh, that can't be. It's like, well, maybe they're just really good at those things. I don't know. To me, I look at the roster and I'm like, not surprised that the PDO is high. Yeah. Hey, before we let you go, I do want to ask you about this

because Laz and I were saying, you know, Vegas, the team that you cover, made these moves while sitting really technically they're in the last wild guard spot in the Western Conference. Jesse Granger, what are the realistic odds that we have a playoff race and maybe things get a little tight for Vegas? Like, is there any scenario where you can see, oh, my goodness, that there are playoff spots in jeopardy?

Yes. And honestly, it kind of reminds me of the year they missed the playoffs, the year they traded for Eichol, and it was, they had even worse injuries than they did this year. It was the year Robin Leonard was their goalie, and he was hurt the whole year. year and they went through like 15 different goalies and they missed the playoffs. And the reason they missed the playoffs is because they got healthier towards the end of the season. But now you've got a bunch of guys that haven't played together. And I remember Pete DeBoer, who was coach at the time saying, well, every night we're playing against these teams that are like in playoff shape. And they've been

playing together for months and they're rolling right now and these games mean so much to them. And then we've got a lineup that's talented now because we're getting guys back. But none of these guys have played together in months. There's no cohesion and it's just very hard to catch up. And they just felt like they could not get their head above water in that aspect. And I think it's better this year. But Bruce Cassidy said a very similar thing after a loss the other night saying it just feels like we don't have a lot of cohesion because new guys are coming in and out of the lineup. And now they make trades at the deadline to mix it up even more. And then a hurdle isn't even going to be back for a couple weeks. So you know, you're going to throw him in and mix things up again.

And then I still think Vegas is going to make the playoffs, but I see a route to them missing it because I've seen this story before. And to me, it reminds me a lot of that season where they had talent, but it just never showed because you don't feel yourself when you come back. You're not, you're in a new environment. You're not cohesive. So yes, I could see them missing, but I don't, I mean, I think the favorite is that they make the playoffs and they're the team that nobody wants to play.

Like you said, though, never a dull moment covered the Vegas called the Nights. Everendell movie. All right. We'll leave it there. Guys, that pretty much is all the time we have. Hey, hey, you can't kick me out of this Zoom. I'm staying right-empting here. That's right.

No. I'm not going anywhere. Listen, torts. It's over. It's over. It's over. It's over. It's over.

Guys. Beat it. Thanks, everybody, for listening to the Monday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. Leave us a five-star rating and review. If you enjoy the show, you know, we would certainly appreciate that. Next edition of the Athletic Hockey Show will come your way on Wednesday. It's the return of the Sean's Gentilean McAdo.

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