The Athletic Hockey Show - Evgeni Malkin facing a suspension, 51-in-50: the Auston Matthews goalscoring binge, Multiple Choice Madness, and more

Episode Date: April 11, 2022

First, Ian and Hailey discuss how concerned the Los Angeles Kings should be about potentially missing the playoffs as the regular season winds down, Evgeni Malkin facing a suspension after crosschecking Mark Borowiecki in the face over the weekend, if you could pick the Kings, the Nashville Predators, the Dallas Stars, or the Vegas Golden Knights to miss the playoffs, which would you chose and why, the NHL’s strange scheduling this week, and more.Then, The Athletic’s own James Mirtle joins the show to talk about Auston Matthews scoring 51 goals in his last 50 games, and what makes him such a great goalscorer, if the Toronto Maple Leafs need to beat the Boston Bruins in the first round of the playoffs to finally end their Stanley Cup drought, which Leaf deserves more credit for the team’s success this season, and much more.Plus, to close things out, Ian and Hailey answer a couple of Multiple Choice Madness questions including which is more impressive, Auston Matthews scoring 65 goals or a defenseman hitting the 100-point plateau and which rebuild would you rather have, the Ottawa Senators or the Detroit Red Wings.And, right now, you can get a 6 month subscription to The Athletic for just $1 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back, everybody, to kick off your week in hockey. It is the Monday edition of The Athletic Hockey Show. It's Ian Mendez, Haley Salvean with you for the next hour or so. Coming up, James Myrtle, going to drop by the podcast. We'll have a conversation about Austin Matthews and his historic run. Do we consider his 50 and 50? Is that a legit 50 and 50? Or is there an asterisk next to that?

We'll also talk about potential playoff matchups for Toronto. Speaking of the playoffs, are the L.A. Kings headed to the postseason? or not. We'll chat a little bit about that Western race of getting Malkin in some hot water. He's got a meeting with Department of Player's Safety on Monday. We'll talk about what that potential suspension should be.

We'll do some multiple choice madness. We'll get to all of that and more. In the next hour, we bring her back in. It's great to have her back. She was traveling last week. It's Haley Salvean. And we're going to start this pod, Haley. We're talking about your challenges

of finding your own car at the airport. So the Calgary Airport, it just makes more sense to drive and park there because the Uber surge, when you get back, like, every single time, it's like $85 to get home to my apartment. And it's $85 to just park at the airport for a week. So it just makes more sense. However, the parking garage is kind of confusing. and I always end up wandering around.

Like, I forget what floor I'm on. I forget where my car is. So I just end up going up and down the elevator and wandering around the garage a lot with my little carry-on suitcase. Now, are you pressing your key fob to like hump the horn? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm not stupid. Yeah.

But do you ever, isn't a bad feeling is when you walk into an underground parking garage, you hit your key fob. You can hear the beat. But you don't know where it is. You don't know where it is. So this time around, I had like a different kind of panic because I parked at the parking jet this time just because I was staying longer term. I was like, okay, it's more cost effective.

I'll park like four minutes off site. It's still on the airport grounds. It's not like Toronto where it's, you know, really far away from the actual airport. It's still on the airport ground. So I parked in the offsite lot. and usually they give you a little slip where it says your car is in like aisle three. I left that slip in Los Angeles. So I'm on a little park and jet shuttle going back to my car.

I'm like, I think I'm on aisle three. And it was just this like really horrific feeling as we're driving through aisle three. And my car is just not there. It's like, did I forget or did my car get stolen? It was there. Okay. So pro tip for you. Okay.

And you're a lot younger than me. So you shouldn't need this, but it is a, that's right. That's right. I'm younger. We get it. Take your phone and just take a snapshot of the pillar that you park next to it. So if it says 3D or 2F or whatever. I'm too proud to do that.

It's like it's fine. I'll know where I am. Don't let pride get in the way of. of, you know, knowing where your car is. And then you just hit favorite on your camera roll or put it in the... And then you know, when I come back, I don't have to worry. Where did I park? It's a pro tip from someone in their 40s.

Okay? No, I don't think you should be doing this at the mall or... But it's more of when you're just going on a trip and you're not back for seven days. Yeah. Feel smart. Yeah. Okay, there you go. Pro tip.

Pro tip. Now, you were coming back from California, right, on this trip? Uh-huh. And you were down there at the, what do we call it? I was texting you from the crypt. Yeah, I was, I think I said I'm beyond the grave. Beyond the grave at the crypt. So we got to talk about the crypt.

But it's still the staple center. Have you been in the press box there? Yep, but it's been a few years, but yeah. It's so far removed. And there was only about 9,000 fans in the building. And the flame scored within 10 seconds. So it was very quiet. in there. And I will say it was very difficult to stay like engaged in the game when you're,

the press box feels like it's like it's not overlooking the ice. It's not like in the upper bowl, you know, it's just behind everything. And then it was like really quiet, really like muted atmosphere for the first period until the Kings kind of got back into the game. But I was like, oh God, I'm not paying any attention. You call it the crypt. That's why that's why you were texting. texting me from the game. I was bored. I was like, who do you think would answer my text right now?

Yeah, me. As soon as you text me, you see the three dots appearing. You're like, yeah, this guy's so thirsty, he'll just answer anybody's text. Okay. But L.A. had an interesting week, Haley. They blew a three-goal lead on the weekend against Minnesota. And all of a sudden, what felt like, I won't say it was like a lock two weeks ago, but I think people felt pretty confident that Todd McClellan's team was headed to the postseason.

and now all of a sudden, you know, Vegas is right there and they got a game in hand on them. And I mean, how worried should the L.A. Kings and maybe in particular, their fans be about them making the playoffs. You just, you were there. You watched them. What's the issue here? Yeah, well, I mean, we have to look at,

the Kings have been playing really good hockey without six lineup regulars, including guys like Drew Doughty. I mean, they were, you know, they beat the flames in Calgary, missing again several players and then the flames went in. And it ended up being a pretty tight game. You know, Johnny Goddrow and the penalty kill were kind of the reasons why the flames beat the Kings. And now they're in this kind of mini-skid, I guess you could call it. But I think this is what happens this time of year is teams go through these little ebbs and flows.

And all of a sudden it's like, oh, my God, we're going to be first in the division or, oh, my God, we're going to miss the playoffs. I think that speaks more to how close the Pacific Division has been this season. If the Kings would have beat the Flames in the crypt when I was there, L.A. only would have been one point back of first the Pacific Division. Of course, the Flames would have had games in hand, so they would have still been first on points percentage. But the Kings were right there. Again, I do think that this is just a really close Pacific Division playoff. I don't know if I would say there's a huge worry with the Kings. I mean, it's tough because where is Nashville? They've got a two-point lead on Vegas. Vegas has a game in hand.

Vegas is 7-3 and 0 in their last 10. L.A. is 4, 4, and 2. So they've lost three straight. So I just think when you take a snapshot of right now, sure, it's worrisome that they have lost three straight. They blew a three goal lead. Again, that three goal lead was against Minnesota, who has been really good at comeback victories this season. I believe that was not the first time they've come back in that manner. And that's a team who is, you know, second in the central. They're up there in the Western Conference standings too. So it's not like we're talking about Arizona coming back and beating them six three. But again, this is just that time of year where if you lose three straight, it's all of a sudden whatever cushion you had starts to shrink that happened

with the flames. They lost three in a row. And I was like, do I have to write a story about the slumping flames? Or do we just forget what it's like to lose three games in a row? You know, it's just that time of year where there's 10, 9, 8, 7 games left in the season. You're like, oh, my God, you need to go at least like 500 down this stretch or we're all going to pull. And, you're all going to or hero. And you know what? And it's probably even more concerning if you're the Kings that they're not playing, like let's say they make the playoffs, but they're not playing great hockey right now. That's probably a concern as well. I do think that the Kings are well aware of where they stand within the hierarchy within the division. Rob Blake at the trade deadline didn't make a ton of moves.

And he even said, like, we know where we're at. This isn't our time. We're not being persuaded to move out draft picks and players to go all in right now because it's just not our time. So, you know, I don't know if fans have bought into that or if fans are hoping that this is going to be another great Kings run. But I don't think the organization is looking at this and saying like, oh, crap, like our moment is slipping away because they didn't add to their teams. They didn't believe that this was the moment. Yeah, you know, I think what does help the Kings in the last couple of weeks of the season, if you look at their schedule, they only have one game again. against a, what I would say is a legitimate lock-it-in playoff team and a contender. That's Colorado.

Mm-hmm. There are other seven games, they got Chicago twice, they got Anaheim twice, they got Columbus, Seattle and Vancouver. Like, those are winnable games, right? Winnable games. Mm-hmm. For the L.A.K. So now, here's my next question about this race.

There's four, like, with all due respect to Vancouver and Winnipeg, I'm going to take them out of the equation here. I'm going to say there's four teams, Haley, with three spots up for grabs. Yeah. Which team do you want to see on the outside looking in amongst L.A., Vegas, Dallas, Nashville. Like you, you want Vegas out? Yeah. Just because they're Vegas and we're tired of them?

I don't know. I don't know. It's just I think Nashville intrigues me. they were so fun in the playoffs last year. UC Saros is a great goalie. Did you even say Nashville? I kind of zoned out once you said Vegas. Okay.

I did. I said Nashville, Dallas, Vegas, and L.A. Yeah. I like Nashville. I think that's a solid team. I have more trust in their ability to get it done than maybe Vegas because they have goaltending in UC Saros. Dushane's having a great year.

Roman Yossi is completely slept on nationally this season. So I like them to make it, but I also enjoy watching that team. Honestly, I think that if, you know, right now, if the playoffs start today, the flames would play Nashville. And that's potentially scary for the flames. I think the flames are the underdog in any series because they haven't done anything in the playoffs in a really long time. They have one playoff wins since that 2004 cup run with Daryl and Kipperc.

soft and Jerome McGinless. So they're, they're the underdog regardless, but I think Nashville's a good team. I don't know how I feel about Dallas. I feel like I haven't, I'm going to be honest, I haven't watched them up close enough this season to get an accurate read on the stars. But I feel like they're just a hard team to actually get an accurate temperature on because they've had these wild swings and momentum. You know, they're, they go on such heaters that you're like, this is an unstoppable force. And then they drop down quite quickly and stay there for some time. And then they go back up. It's been a really up and down season for the stars. So I don't really know what to make of them on the season as a whole. Honestly, I just, I don't know. I can't put into

words why I wouldn't mind seeing the Vegas Golden Knights miss the playoffs. Maybe it's, maybe it's because they are completely and utterly ruthless in the way that they run their hockey ops and they build their team. I have no doubt that they would have traded of getting Dadenov to somebody to clear cap space after the deadline just to ensure that they could activate guys from LTIAR. And I don't want to, I don't think that they did, I don't think they did the LTIR stuff to circumvent the cap because those guys are injured. We all know that something was up with Mark Stone. He did not look himself. He is hurt. But I don't know.

It would just be kind of funny to see the whole like, we're going to get Jack Eichel. We're finally going to win our cup. We're going to do all this stuff. It's going to work. It's be kind of funny to see it not work. I don't, I'm sorry. I think it's kind of funny. I think what happened with Flurry last year just makes them so incredible.

unlikable to do that to like one of the most well-liked dudes in this league. Like he, the way, Flurry was just ready to like, I'm going to play out my, whatever I'm to be done. I'm going to retire Vegas Golden Knight. And now he's played for Chicago and Minnesota because the Golden Knights made probably kind of a bad decision. Because Flurry's playing great right now. But I digress.

I just think it would be kind of funny to see. Vegas Miss the playoffs. Yeah, I mean, from pure comedy, for sure. I don't like them very much. But on the other flip side of it, they do have a ton of star power. Eichl and Stone and Patcheretti and like, like, they might be really fun to watch in the playoffs, but. Yeah.

And they're playing really well right now too, so they're catching on. Yeah, they're getting on at the right time. Dallas, Dallas to me is an interesting team because they got a couple of guys already in Hintz, Rupa Hints, and Jason Robertson. They both have 30 goals. And Pavelsky's like pretty close. Yeah, Pavelsky's at 27 goals. Like they could have three, 30 goal guys.

And when you think of Dallas, you often think of Sagan and Ben, right? But they're no longer driving the bus. Like that's a Robertson and Hints and some of those guys that are Haskinan, that's really moving that thing along. They're a more fun team to watch than probably we realize. And to me, that would be fun. And what's weird about L.A. is they've, the core of that team's won a couple of Stanley Cups and yet we don't feel like we're tired of the LA Kings, right?

Like I think it's because there's been a nice pause. They used to be successful. They haven't won a cup in like eight years. You know what? That's sterile. If they come back, yeah. That might be, that might be a fun. You know, it was something that just in like doing some research on Sutter, I always found this an interesting contrast because look, he is, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's,

he's hard to play for. We know what happened at the end with the Kings. Um, he's hard to play for, but he makes his teams really hard to play against. And I always remember, I, I believe it was Drew Doughty. When Daryl got, when Daryl was fired by the Kings after they'd won two cups, I think it was Drew Doughty who said playing hockey is, is fun again because it is a very workhorse mentality. You come to the rink, you do your job. It's very like Bill Belichick, like everyone do your job. And Drew Doughty said, you know, hockey is coming to the rink is fun again. Then you flash forward a couple years and the kings are kind of rebuilding and they haven't been very good.

And Drew Doughty says, people used to hate playing against us. People used to fear playing against the kings. Like, we want that back. It's like, what happened? Yeah. What happened? Anyways, Tom McClellan is doing a great job, though. I just thought that I was doing some research over the, over the weekend when I was in L.A.

Rich Hammond and I did a story kind of comparing the Kings Cup winning teams and this Flames team that's been playing really well this season. And so I was doing lots of Daryl Sutter research. And I came across those quotes. And I just thought, this is kind of funny. Anyways. You know, I think one of the biggest, look, the NHL, there's, this is a weird one on Monday. There's one game on the schedule on Monday. 14 games on Tuesday.

I don't know. Like, what were they thinking here? I don't know. What are the schedule makers thinking? So, like, a giant concert or something on Monday? Concert everywhere, and every venue has a concert or an NBA game or what, like, it's nuts. One game, Montreal, Winnipeg, which has really isn't going to move the needle, I don't think, for anybody. And then on Tuesday, there's 14 games.

But I think the biggest thing on the NHL schedule Haley on Monday isn't the game. it's Evgeny Malkins meeting with the Department of Player's Safety. That's going to happen at some point on Monday. Certainly it's going to happen after we're done recording this. Malkin gets into an altercation with Nashville's Mark Borvietzky and ends up slashing him and then pretty clearly cross-checking him with his stick into his mouth. Borvietzky, who I don't even know if he had two teeth to begin with, you know, is in pain, he's skating off, he's bleeding.

And it's funny, I think if you told people, hey, Borvietz, and Malkin are involved in an incident and one of them is facing discipline, you might automatically think it's Borvietzky. But Malkin is sneaky dirty. Like he's sneaky dirty. Like, and I'm wondering what you think. And I don't say that necessarily in a bad way.

I think a lot of people like their stars. When we do the player polls in the past, I think Malkin has gotten some votes for like dirtiest player in the league. Yes, he's sneaky dirty. Yeah. Totally. And so look, And when you do that, you buy yourself some space.

I get it. What do you think this suspension should be? And, you know, Malkins got, he's got a pretty big status. He's a superstar in this league who basically stick a number six defenseman in the face. I mean, if it was the other way around, I wonder, like, do you think if it was the other way around, there would be a greater, like, there would be a greater, you know, punishment levied out, or do you think that this is going to be fairly handled by the league? Well, I don't ever know if things are, if we can ever say that.

I think the question to me is like how similar or not do we think is the Malkin incident with the Austin Matthews? Yeah. Because Austin got two games as a first, you know, as like a first time. I don't know the word. I'm blanking on my. First time offender. Education today.

First time offender. First time offender. Thanks, Ian. I'm still on Pacific Time. But Austin got two games for that cross check. So do we think what Malkin just did to Borovietzky is similar? Is it worse? Is it less bad?

And I think that's kind of the barometer. That's kind of the precedent we're looking at is, is Malkin going to get two games? Will he get as many as three or five? will it just be a fine? Again, I think it depends on how you compare that incident to Austin Matthews, because that's a star who they suspended for something that they had previously given some guys $5,000 fines for. So I think that's kind of what we're looking at. Would they have done, acted more? Would there have been more reaction to it if it was Borvietzky hitting Malkin that way?

Probably, like you're probably going to get whatever big enforcer on the penguins going at, Mark Borviyetsky, if he's giving Malkin a shot like that, or Malkin probably would have taken matters into his own hands, actually, because that's a big, big man. Yeah. And he's done that in the past. But I don't know. It's hard for me because it's bad. And he gives him, you know, he slashes him first.

Right. And then he cross-checked him in the face. And then Borvietzky didn't return to the game. He drew blood on the play. Malkin got a four-minute double-miner for drawing. Malkin got four minutes, but Borviyevsky got a penalty on that play, too. And Malkin did not get called for the cross-check. He got called on a slash or high stick.

He got called in a high-stick. He didn't get called for the slash or the cross-checked to the face. I was checking the box score this morning, but I don't have it in front of me anymore. So you look at stuff like that, and you're like, know what's going to happen from this. Are we going to see the blood and just be like, ooh, yeah, he's going to get more than what Austin got. It's hard to sit here on my couch. I'm sitting at my desk, but it's hard to sit here at my desk and say, like, Malkin hit him with more force than Austin hit. Who is at Rissalinen? Dahlene, Osmos Dahlene, excuse me.

I don't know. I think he probably gets three to five. Yeah. Malkin does have one suspension on. his docket in his career. It was for a high stick on Michael Raffle back in 2019. So three years ago probably doesn't come into I know they have what an 18 month

limit on how far they can go back on calling somebody a repeat offender. I tend to agree with you. I think somewhere in the neighbor, I would think three games. I think Evgeny Malcon is going to get three games for this. And yeah, we'll see what

the Department of Player Safety hands out. And it's not an in-person hearing so it's not going to be, I know some people are saying ban them for the rest of the regular season. Don't let them play until the playoffs. I don't think that's going to happen. I think, like you said, three games seems about right. All right. Haley, time for us to bring in our guest here.

And technically he's our boss too. So we kind of got to walk on eggshells when we bring him in. It is so awkward. He is James Myrtle, of course, who covers the Toronto Maple Leafs and is the head of, kind of editorially speaking, for our vertical at the athletic. That is what James is in charge of. But we're not here to talk about our contract situations. We're here to talk about the Toronto Maple Leafs.

And he is the purveyor of the, I say he does it. That's his catchphrase. And Austin Matthews is going to get 50. I say he does it. Austin Matthews is going to bust Rick Vives record for goals. I say he does it. And now the question is, does he get to 60, 65. I say he does it.

Let's bring him in, James Myrtle. Thanks for joining the podcast. Yeah, my advice, guys, is never start something that can become a catchphrase because you'll never escape it. I tried this season not to say it, and all I was getting was people wanting me to do it. It's funny, you know, the people who don't like the Leafs, and there are a lot of them, especially in Alberta, I find, they really hate the I say he does it thing. Like they, that's part of why I stopped doing it because I was getting like crazy stuff in response to it. People were getting so angry and I was getting insulted. And I was like,

okay, this is just like getting out of hand. I'm not going to do this anymore. Yeah. Well, I will say that it might not be in this specific region of Alberta where people hate that because I'm getting it. Because of Johnny Goddrow said, you know, triple digits coming up next. And like all the responses that I say he does it. So I think Flames fans enjoy it. Maybe only when they're talking about Johnny Goodro, maybe not so much Austin Matthews. Yeah, you know, people in Calgary seem pretty chill. It seems with the Leafs, like there's a rivalry there, but there's not like a deep-seated hatred.

that there is in some other parts of the country. Yeah. Yeah. Like Ottawa. Ottawa, Montreal. But Edmonton is like the most, the most vitriol I see. In Vancouver. Vancouver does it pretty good.

No, I get the most from Edmonton. I get the most from, yeah, for the leaves. Yeah. And for Austin Matthews. And part of it I think is this is the McDavid thing. Yeah. Like what I would say there is like, come on, Edmonton, you've had so many great players. Like, look, how many heart trophies have your teams won?

How many scoring races have your team? You've had Messia, Gretzky, Yari Curry. You look at the Leafs, like, they haven't had anybody. They finally have a guy that's leading the league in goals and that's got a heart trophy candidate. Why are you so angry about it? Just like the Leaf finally have one guy. Yeah. We took a ton of the heat from Trade Center and not to make this like a, why is everyone so angry or mean? But, you know, I think Carlo was talking about, this was on deadline day. Carlo Coliacova was talking about why Austin Matthew should win the heart. And then I came in and said, Johnny Goodrow has a good case.

And then Emily Kaplan came in and was talked about Igor Shostirk. And people were so mad that we weren't just talking about why McDavid should win it again. And I think it just, there's an interesting case, you know, I don't know if it's voter fatigue. Like Michael Jordan didn't win every single MVP. Like LeBron James doesn't won every single MVP. Like there's, I don't know if it is voter fatigue.

Crosby hasn't won as many as he probably. should, right? That's definitely something that happens where no one's going to win eight in a row the way Gretzky did, I don't think, ever again. And part of it is that, yeah, what's the next shiny new thing? I mean, I was watching that game, Edmonton and Colorado on Saturday night. And you watch McDavid, it's like, holy cow, like, he's just, he's just amazing. Like, the fact that there's even anyone coming close to him in the heart conversation or even,

you know, the R. Ross conversation. I mean, it's, it's, that's like a great talking point that there are these players that are doing things that are starting to approach his level, at least a little bit in, in one season. I, I have no doubt that on balance over the next, whatever, the first 10 years of his career, McDavid is going to be the, the, the heart trophy winner, the majority of the time. You know, one of the things I want to talk about is this ridiculous heater that Matthews is on that has led him, uh, to get 50 goals over this, his last 50 games. And I find it interesting.

51. 51. 51. Yeah, that's right. God, Ian. Yeah, God. That's not shortchange him here for the. Listen, I'm just paying attention.

Jesus. I'm just paying attention to Josh Norris' hot streak. But here, look, Matthews has scored 51 goals in his last 50 games. And I see people saying, well, no, he's not part of the 50 and 50 club because you've got to do it at the start of the season, like Bossy did, like Gretzky did, like Rocket Richard did. did. I kind of like what I heard on Hockey Night in Canada on the weekend. I thought Kelly Rudy made a really good point that if you're going to score 50 goals and 50 games, doing it in the final 50 games is harder than doing it in the first 50 games. So I agree with that. I just

want to know where people stand on should we be giving, does Austin Matthews deserve to be in the 50 and 50 club? So I remember this debate, Ian, and this is here I get to be old guy talking about things. I remember this debate when Cam Neely did it. Yeah. Because he missed a whole bunch of games, right? Cam Neely is a good BC boy where I grew up and he was a guy that we all loved. He was one of, he was one of my favorite players when I was a kid. And he gets the, I think he did 50 and 49 or something like that. He's one of the last players that did it. And but because he had so many injuries at that point, and I believe it was his knees were so bad at that point. He missed a lot of games en route to doing so. And it was a real shame. I remember being whatever I was when that happened

13 years old. And just being, really disappointed that it was kind of being discounted that he didn't do the 50 and 50 just because he had been injured. And it's the same thing with Austin. I mean, not the exact same thing, but Austin Matthews comes in. He's coming off surgery. He misses the first few games the season. He has the two-game suspension. He's missed five games. And he was a diminished player of the first 17 games of the year where he didn't have as many goals. I think the reason why I think it's worth talking about 50 and 50 for Austin Matthews is no one has done it in any span of games going back 26 years. That's why it's special.

Like if 50 and 50 was something that was happening more regularly, then maybe you could confine it to what it used to be in the 80s and the early 90s. It's just, it's not possible for anyone to get 50. At least I didn't think it was possible for anyone to even get 50, 50 in any context anymore. The fact that he's brought that conversation and that debate back that I remember from like 1992, it's amazing that he's been able to do that. And I think it is an important distinction. Like scoring this time of year is harder.

Like that is a good point. Kelly. And I know that I saw a lot of stuff online that, you know, people were making up this stat for Austin because it wasn't the first 50 games that he scored 50 goals. But, you know, we're hearing this. I don't know about you guys, but I'm hearing it a lot in Calgary with Darrell Sutter just about how tight these games are, how, you know, other teams are playing more desperate. It's harder to get to the middle of the ice. It's harder to have time and space to create offense in the ways that you could have in the beginning of the season. In Calgary, more specifically, too, I think they said that teams were taking them lighter,

but now they're playing them harder, so it's been more difficult for their guys to kind of operate the same. I don't know if you guys agree with that, but I think scoring 50 in the last, and among the last 50 games a season is almost more impressive than doing it when we see all those hot streaks at the start of the year. This is when it really matters. But my one counter to that is that this has been kind of a weird season in that scoring is up. so much from last season. I believe it's up like six and a half percent from last year. And I don't, I don't have the perfect theory as to why. But it also seems like,

Haley, that like scoring has gone up as the season has gone along this year, which is a little bit unusual. And part of it, I think is there's been, there's been a really clear delineation between like the few teams that are going to make the playoffs and miss the playoffs. Like, there's not very many in between teams. So the teams that are kind of like tanking or that are out of it, they're playing more young guys. They're shutting down. their veteran players. They're experimenting with some different goalies. But we've seen tons of games around the league, not even just the Leafs or the Panthers or whatever. There's been tons of like eight, seven games. Nine five battle of Alberta's. Yeah, I feel like I'm back in like the late 80s or

early 90s again when I look at the out of town scores some nights. And that's fantastic. But like I said, I'm not 100% sure why that's happening. But that's all part of this. You know, we're going to have more players getting into 100 points than we've seen in most recent seasons. We're going to have have players putting up, you know, like David could be over the 130 point mark. I think it's great for the game. I think that it needs to be higher scoring than it's been the last decade plus. But I don't know exactly why it's happening. Hopefully it's here to stay.

You know what my theory is on the goal scoring being up? And it's funny that you mentioned that you feel like you're back in a time warp into the 80s and 90s, is if you look at the overall safe percentages for teams, there are nine teams that have a sub-neutral. 900 save percentage. Like nine teams. Like a third of the league isn't giving you 900 save percentage, uh, goaltending.

Like, um, Toronto's even, I think right at 900. And like to me, I think we're seeing, I don't think we've ever seen goaltending this bad in recent years. That's, yeah,

feeling. Well, I think that probably the best theory is that like the, the scorers are kind of winning the battle against the goalies right now more than they have been in the past. I mean, that's, that's the biggest reason why 50 and 50 disappeared and why it was hard to get to

50 goals. and why it was hard to get. I mean, there's only been two players that have had 60 goals in the cap era. You know, there's only been two players that have had 60 goals going back to Pavel Burray. I mean, that's been a mark that almost no one could reach. So I think if we can increase scoring just a little bit more, and this year it's just over six goals a game. If they can get it up to like six and a half goals a game, all of a sudden we're going to be

talking about 50 goal chase and 100 point chase and all of these kind of things a lot more than we have been in the last 20 years. That's more exciting. I guess, James, how would you, and you've written a lot about this even before this season, I know you've done a lot of great work on Austin Matthews over the years since he's, even before, since he was drafted, excuse me, what about him makes him such a good goal score? And I say that with knowing, like, that's not just my opinion, that's not just the stats. Like, he's known around the league as one of the best at shooting the puck.

Is it his release? is it, you know, the accuracy, a combination of everything? It's actually the crazy thing. I wrote a big feature for us on this at the end of last season when he went on that huge heater. And the thing that everyone said is that it's actually not his release and it's not his accuracy. Like there's a lot of guys around the league that can shoot accurately, that can shoot hard. He's not like an Ovechkin where he's just overpowering the puck into that.

He's good at those things. But the things that they said is that his technique and kind of his mind for the game, the way that he's able to sort of outthink the goaltender. It's really like a, the way it was described to me by skills coaches is trying to score a goal in the NHL is kind of like a chess match where the goal he's trying to put himself in a position where no puck is going to be able to beat him. And he has certain movements and technique that he's using in the net. But what's happening is that someone like Austin Matthews using his skills coach, he works

with Daryl Belfrey here in Toronto, using the skills coach. What Austin Matthews is trying to do is reverse engineer. what the goalies are doing and throw something different at the goaltender that he's not used to seeing. And I talked to some goalies for that story. I talked to some other scores. And they said that what Matthews can do is that he can shoot from all these different positions like in tight to his feet or out far away from his body. He can shoot when the goaltender's not expecting him to be able to shoot because most players around the league aren't able to execute a hard, accurate shot from the different body positions that Austin Matthews is. So that's just a technique thing that he's worked on over the years and he's gotten so good at it. And you talked to other players around the league and talked to JVR and Jason Spetsa. They just marvel at how he's able to do that because they try and do it in practice and they find it almost impossible.

And part of it is Matthew's the off-ice training that he does is he's worked on his flexibility and all that kind of thing with his trainer. He's got the same trainer. His name's Ian Mack in Chicago, same trainer as Patrick Kane. he's worked really, really hard to be able to sort of contort his body into all these weird positions. And if you freeze frame or you look at pictures of Matthews when he releases the puck, lots of times he's in these really bizarre positions where he's got his shoulder up and his one legs this way and his other legs the other way and his feet are turned at different ways. And he's still able to unleash the puck from all these weirdly contorted body positions. And that's something he's worked on over the years.

And that's made him very, very difficult for other goaltenders to read when exactly and where exactly he's shooting the puck. That's really interesting. I like to go back with Daryl when the capitals were in town, he was being asked about Ovechkin and, you know, how do you stop a guy who can score goals like that? And Daryl, you know, went out of his way to not just compliment Ovechkin, but then say, like, you know, you look at some of these young kids now and like they're going to pass Ovechkin after he passes whoever on these like standings or the, the record books. And, and you know, I don't know, you guys can correct me if I'm wrong. I'm sure people will, but like, I don't know who else you could be talking about other than Austin Matthews, who could already be putting himself in the conversation to be the next best, greatest goal score. The crazy thing now is if you look at Austin Matthews production, he's played, this is a six season.

If you look at his goals per game in his first six NHL seasons, it's ahead of what Oveshkin did in his first six NHL seasons, which is, I did not think that that would be possible. especially when Ovechkin came into the league, power plays were at, I think, almost an all-time high for the league. He was scoring a ton of power play goals. And it just seemed like when scoring came back down, power plays dropped back down, no one was ever going to be able to approach what Ovechkin did. Now all of a sudden we have a player doing it.

And I think that you're talking about Daryl Sutter talking about this. You know, what about what Trevor Zegris is doing, the way that he's able to score goals. I think that what we're seeing right now is players are trying to beat the goal in different ways. And that's going to change. There's going to be an evolution, I think, in the goaltending position as the goalies and the goalie coaches have to adapt to what Matthews and Zegris and some of these other

players are doing. And I think it'll be good for hockey if there's a bit of an opening up of what the goaltenders are doing and what the players are doing. And that battle kind of comes to another level here. I want to know if it's good for hockey if we get another Toronto Boston playoff series, James, because we saw it in 2013, saw it in 2018. saw it in 2019 and each time Boston emerged victorious

is this what, look, is this the old this is the, they got to get over this hurdle. We saw it with Washington. They had to beat Pittsburgh, right? Eventually they had to beat Pittsburgh to get over the hump. Is that, is that how this has to play out for Toronto? They have to beat Boston if they want to go deep into the Stanley Cup playoffs? There's some people in the fan base I've seen and they said,

I don't want any part of Boston again because they just, they have PTSD from from those series that they've watched in the past but there's some that say we have to slay the dragon like we have to this will be like not only will we finally win a playoff series with this group of players but we'll also get rid of the team that's kind of tormented us in you know so many of the previous post seasons you know I think that I think there's something to that the interesting thing too is I think you know if it is Boston and right now that's the most likely opponent that the Leafs are going to get the interesting thing is that the Leifes would finally be the favorite in this series. And that's never been the

case in the past. The Bruins have always been the team that was the favorite. The Leifes were always the underdog. They were always the younger team, the plucky team that couldn't get it done. Now Boston's getting old. Bergeron is, you know, 36, 37 years old. Austin Matthews is the star of the league. There'd be such an really interesting tradeoff there between what the Leafs are and what they're becoming. And then the Bruins trying to still kind of hang on to what they've been for such a long period of time. I think it's interesting, James. It's almost like, like for Ottawa fans,

they're looking back at, they couldn't get over the hump that was Toronto in the early 2000s, right? And it took them four cracks and they went 0 for four. But I do think Pittsburgh and Washington's a great example of rivalry. Vancouver, Chicago.

Kenucks got passed to the Blackhawks finally. Was that three or four series that they finally did it? Yeah. The third time was the charm there when Burroughs got the overtime. I think even go to other sports. It felt like,

like the Red Sox had to beat the Yankees if they wanted to win the World Series. Like somehow it would have cheapened it if they didn't. And I kind of feel like this is maybe what Toronto they need. And, you know, presumably they'll have home ice advantage. I know that's still up in the air. But who's the more favorable matchup, the Bruins who have had your number or the Tampa Bay Lightning who nobody has beaten in a playoff series since 2019?

I think that people might call me crazy. I think that stylistically, the Leafs have a hard time with teams that are really, really good defensively. They would have a hard time against a Carolina or against the Boston. I just think that for whatever reason, the very heavily structured, low-scoring teams, that's not, that doesn't favor the Leaf. So, you know, you look at those games that they've been playing against Florida Panthers, like it's amazing hockey, you know, like the comebacks and all the goals and

everything. I think that that favors Toronto, though. Like, I think that if they get, you look at the record that the Panthers, have put up and it's intimidating. But I think that that would be a team that I think that Leifes would have a relatively good chance against. And the only reason I would say that they might have a good chance against the lightning is the lightning have not played very well the last couple of weeks.

I mean, they've been losing a lot of games. Vasilevsky has been struggling. It looks like they might be a little bit vulnerable. But I mean, it's kind of like in the top of the east. It's like pick your poison, right? And the thing too with Boston is, I mean, everyone's going to say, well, you know, look at Florida's record. Tampa's the two-time defending champs.

Of course you pick Boston. I mean, Boston is something like 18, 3, 3, and. won in their last, like they've been one of the best teams in the league. They've been right up there with Colorado for the last few months. They're not an easy out either. So that's my long way of saying, I think that if I could pick as if I was with the, the Leafs and they were, they were able to have their choice. I think that you probably go Florida or Tampa, to be honest. Caroline is a really hard match. Like, they're a really hard team just to match up against on paper, let alone the defensive structure that they play. They're frustrated. The flames have a

ton of, the flames have a lot of problems with Carolina. You have to be really patient to beat Carolina. And Boston's the same way. Like, you have to be able to break down their neutral zone. It's, I was going to call it a trap. I mean, it's basically their neutral zone attack is really, really difficult to work their way through. And in the past, the Leafs just haven't been able to do that.

They haven't been able to be patient enough to do that. And Marchand and Bergeron and all the stars that they still have there in Boston, they've been, they're able to play that patient approach. and then when they get an opportunity, they attack and they capitalize and they come up big in those big moments. So, you know, it stylistically, I think that's just the biggest reason for the Leafs, why I would rather play a more open, offensive-oriented team because I think that that plays to their style. Listen, before we let you go, I do have one other question to ask you about it. Look, and rightfully so, we spend a lot of time talking about Austin Matthews. It's a historic season.

It's one that may end up with him earning a heart trophy as league MVP. but is there one player who you think on this team is being overshadowed? Matthew's dominance is so great that, man, I wish more people knew about this guy, or we're talking about this guy. Like, who's the guy that deserves a little bit more love in the shadow of Austin Matthews? Well, I would say, you know, the Leafs kind of get cast as this offense-oriented team and the Blue Line kind of people are, oh, they don't have defense, they don't. The Leafs are actually a much better defensive team than they get.

credit for. Probably the person that doesn't get enough credit is probably Sheldon Keefe. And I know that you said you wanted a player, but just the Leafs are one of the best, they're the best power play team. They're one of the best penalty killing teams. Their structure defensively over the last two years has improved dramatically. And the player that's been a big part of that is getting T.J. Brody from Calgary. I mean, he's, he's been excellent. He's moved right into the top pair, played huge minutes. He's been a big factor on the penalty kill, big factor at even strength. The Leafs are a better defensive team than they get credit for. It's just they've had really poor goaltending. You alluded to it earlier in the podcast. They've had really, really poor goaltending this

season and it's hurt them. And I think that if they would have, if Peter Morazick had had a better season, people would be talking about how low the Leaf's goals against are and not just how high their goals for are. Yeah. No, it's, listen, this is going to be so interesting to watch how this unfolds, whether they get, whether they get Boston, whether they get, somehow they get Tampa or, you know, whatever, however this plays out. This is going to be really interesting. We appreciate you dropping by the podcast, chat in Austin Matthews, all things leaves. Thanks for this. And listen, I'm sure once we get into the Stanley Cup playoffs, we'll get you back on the pod at some point in the next few weeks.

All right. Sounds good. Good luck with Haley. All right. That was a great conversation, as always, with James Myrtle. And neither of us went into contract talks there, Haley, even though that was our opportunity to talk to the boss. We left it out.

Yeah. Yeah. I should have. I should have just. dropped right in there and said, so what are you prepared to offer me? Yeah, exactly. You got to use your TSN leverage

and all the leverage of your stardom. Use it. Use the leverage. Don't say stuff like that. We have a couple of multiple choice questions should wrap it up. But I want to ask you about this because this was a really weird story

that I thought, I wonder if the NHL has ever done this, or Gary Bettman. So Major League Baseball, of course, had opening day this week. And as players rolled into their respective ballparks Haley, they had a gift at their, at their locker stall.

Every player in Major League Baseball, and we'll call it a piece offering, received a piece offering from Rob Manfred. It was a pair of wireless headphones and a note saying, hey, let's basically, apologies for the 99-day lockout. Ew. Oh, my God.

How do we feel about a commissioner gifting, headphones to say sorry for a lockout. And do you think Gary Bettman ever thought about doing this in the past? Oh my God. No. No, no, no. There's no way that I would be so shocked if we ever heard that Gary Bettman did something like that. There's no way. What was big? Like the year that they canceled the whole season, 2004 or five. Yeah, you think he just gave everyone a pair of, and at that time, there probably wasn't like beats or AirPods. Do you think iPod touches were out then? Or just like a pair of wired headphones from Apple. That's really funny.

Like, you think these players don't have headphones and can't afford a pair of headphones. Like, it's very weird. That's super weird. Like, yeah, sorry about the 99-day lockout. That is kind of my fault in the owners. Yeah. Here's a pair of headphones for your troubles. That's really weird.

That's really cringy. That's like a thing that a guy gives like as a gift to his teammates after his like thousand game, like a bottle of wine and a pair of personalized beats. It is kind of way. I just thought I wonder if Gary Bettman ever thought about as a peace offering. Here's some iPod touches in 2005. What would have been big in 2012? I guess iPads maybe?

There's no way. No? I mean, we would have heard about it if he did it, right? We would have heard Gary Batman gave everybody. iPads. That's like, no, it didn't happen. Can you imagine Gary Bettman? Like, imagine getting a gift from him?

There's no way. It didn't happen. I don't see it. I don't see it. Anyway, I thought it was interesting from Rob Banfford. All right, we are wrapping it up with a couple of fun, multiple-choice questions. So we had James Myrtle on talking about Austin Matthews potentially getting to 65 goals. Hey, let me ask you this question.

What would be more impressive this season? if Austin Matthews scored 65 goals, or if we get a defenseman getting 100 points. Now, it could be Roman Yossi, could be Kel McCar. What would you find more impressive? Matthews to 65 or a defenseman to 100? Probably Matthews to 65, just after everything we talk with Myrtle about

and how long it's been since we've had guys who score 60 goals or how it doesn't always happen in the cap air. I mean, I know 100 points for a defenseman is great, too. And I'm not saying this is how Roman Yossi's getting his points because he's been great. Same with Kil McCar. But, you know, sometimes blue liners can rack up the points by getting the puck up to the forwards who then go and score the goal. We know that's not the case with Kyle McCar. We see the plays that Cal McCar makes.

I do just think there's something to be said about Austin Matthews's ability to put the puck in the net. at such a high rate in a time when we're not always seeing that. I mean, it's been really fun to, it was really fun to watch the kind of fight to get to 50 first with him and Leon Dreisdell. And scoring is up this year. So maybe this year having a defenseman do that for the first time would be really great. And both are awesome. Like, this is a weird one because I feel like I'm saying like you scoring 100 points is

stupid because I think Austin Matthews is a better goal score. I think just I have been so impressed every time he scores. My reaction is just like, my God, this guy is so good. So to me, it's 65 goals. You know what? I think for me it's the defenseman. And it's because we haven't had a defenseman get 100 points in the season since 1992. This is Brian Leach.

1992. That's the last time you think of some of the great defensemen we've had since the Carlson's and the Lidsstroms and whoever else you want to put into that stratosphere of kind of point-producing defensemen, none of them got to 100 points. And the fact that we might get one this year is really cool. And again, I think what Matthews is doing is unbelievable, but I never thought we'd see another defenseman get 100 points.

I thought when Carlson couldn't get to it at his peak, I thought this isn't going to happen. And now I'm starting to wonder if Kail McCarr might have 100 points in them for a couple of years down the roads. Anyway, so that would be my answer to that. My other question, and this is called shameless plug time, Haley. Max Bolton and I, Max does a terrific job when he's on the athletic hockey show on the Friday show with Corey Prondman, and he does a great job covering the Red Wings.

Him and I teamed up for a little collab piece that dropped on Monday. We asked a panel of experts, Craig Button, Dave Poulin, Corey Prondman, Scott Wheeler, Chris Peters, about the Ottawa and Detroit rebuild because it sends a redwings. Wings are playing this week. Haley, if you could pick one rebuild, whose would you rather have, Detroit or Ottawa? I feel like we've talked about this before, just you and I off, Mike.

And I feel it's so tough because we've seen the Red Wings move out players that you thought would be key pieces of the rebuild to bring in other pieces. But we've also seen the senators not be able to keep certain pieces. although we haven't seen that happen with their actual core of players. I think I want to say Detroit.

They have two legitimate Calder players and Moritz-Sider and Lucas Raymond. They have a good captain in Dylan Larkin. They've got an excellent general manager. Their coach is good. And, you know, I think DJ Smith's great. In Ottawa, I think Detroit has their issues. The Sends have their issues. But I think when I look at some of the young players that the Red Wings have,

not just on the NHL roster right now, but in their organizational depth, like in their prospect cupboard, I think I like what Detroit has. But this is tough for me because I covered the senators. I think Brady Kachuk is great. Josh Norris is an excellent, excellent player. Drake Batherson has turned himself, you know, not just from a prospect who was really good in the American League, but to a good NHL player. Tim Stutzla is going to be a good hockey player as well, whether that's a center or a winger, I think, is still up in the air a little bit. I just think, and then you've got Shabbat, but Jake Sanderson, now, see, now I'm stuck again because I think the senators have a ton, a ton of pieces, a ton of good.

pieces. But I think it's hard when you haven't seen them make the same impact at the NHL level as quickly. Does that make sense? I don't know if I'm making any sense. I feel like I'm going back and forth now because the Sends have the Sends have a lot. That's what makes it a good question. If you're vacillating back and forth and I know, but this is like horrible podcasting. I'm like the I look like Larry David in the like parking spot episode where he's like, there you go. See it all comes back to parking. Super. So we just got, we just went full. We just went full circle.

I didn't read the story yet because I didn't want to. I was kidding. I was waiting to see what excuse you were going to have. You're like, I just don't want to read your stuff. Like, what have that? No, I was busy this morning. Yeah. All right.

Okay. What do you think, Ian? Because you cover the sentence. Like, what do you think? But I think I'm too biased because I know the Ottawa group and the players. And that's why Max and I said, let's go to some outside people because we know. the prospects so well, we're probably too biased. Like we're too into it. So that's why we like going out, getting pooling

button and these guys that just prominent Wheeler and Chris Peters, because they look at it from an arm's length probably a little bit less. Yeah. I think it's just it's tough because like you could put them and I see that this is what you guys did when you put up some of the young pillars it becomes like who would you rather have. And I think as you go through some of them, it's like, well, I think I'd rather have this guy in this situation, but then I'd rather have this guy in this situation. Like, do the Red Wings have a Josh Norris? No. So what you're saying is they should merge the two teams

and they'll have a killer killer team. Actually, one idea I think I'm going to do for the off season, I want to do a bottom of the Atlantic Division roundtable, you know, get John Vogel from Buffalo, Maxim Detroit, Arpin, maybe from Montreal, and then myself with Ottawa. And look at these four teams and where are they going and who's going to make the playoffs first and who's got

the most optimism and who's got the least optimism. And I think it'll be a fun piece to do. I think overall the Red Wings have the better prospect pool. And I did a feature on Sebastian Kosa, who is one of the top goalies in the draft and he could

end up being an excellent goalie prospect. The senators have had problems drafting and developing and keeping a goalie in house. I mean, they've drafted a ton of goleys recently with the goal of drafting and developing and having their goalie come from their prospect pool. But you saw Joey DeCord rapidly rise to the pool and then they left them unprotected. You know, you've got Forsberg now. Matt Murray, he's not a, you know, a blue chip drafted and developed prospect from the Sends. But the Sons have a lot of goalies, but they don't have like a COSA. So that's something for me.

I think I take, now that I'm actually like thinking about this, I've woken up. I've been awakened. I think I would, I think I like Ottawa's forward group better. Batherson, Kachuk, Stutz, Tzla, Norris. And again, I'm a, and then ad Shane Pinto in there. I think he's, can be an excellent middle six center at the NHL level. But, I mean, it might be recent. he bias because I've watched him in the NHL a lot this year, but I think I take like more at

cider over Jake Sanderson. And that's just because I haven't seen Sanderson and the impact he can make at the NHL level. Not yet. So I think I'm split still. I'm still split, but that was a little bit better of an explanation as to why I'm split. I think you just go certain directions. I don't think you merge them. I think at the end of the day, you can draft and have these prospects, but it's how you

develop them into pros. It's can you keep them in house? And so it's like, would you rather have the sense of the red wings in that aspect? Max and I had a lot of fun. Hope our listeners can check out that piece. We'll have to leave it there, Haley. Okay? Cool. Where are we next week? Where are we in the world of Haley? Where are you next month? Are you going to be able to do the pod on Monday? I don't know. I don't know. She doesn't know. Okay. What day is it? It's the Monday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. What other day would it be? I'll be here.

The flames are in Chicago and Nashville, but I'm not going on that trip. I'll be here. I'm looking forward to it. All right. Listen, have a great week. And we thank everybody for listening to this latest Monday edition of the

Athletic Aggie show. Follow us in your favorite podcast platform. Leave us a rating. Leave us a review. We would certainly appreciate that. Subscribe to the Athletic Audio Plus. On Apple Podcast, get all of our bonus content from our entire network. Start with a 30-day free trial.

Then it's 99 cents a month after that. Right now we've got to be a lot. a great deal on at the Athletic. You can subscribe for just a dollar a month for six months when you visit theathletic.com slash hockey show.