The Athletic Hockey Show - Evgeny Kuznetsov's slow shootout goal, NHL asks coaches to stop verbally abusing referees and Bill Zito's Florida Panthers motivated to return to the Final

Episode Date: October 17, 2023

 Ian and Julian debate Evgeny Kuznetsov's slower than slow shootout winner, Lindy Ruff benching Timo Meir, Curtis Lazar and John Marino in the 3rd period of New Jersey's loss to the Panthers and Sheldon Keefe calling out his top players in Toronto.NHL insider Michael Russo discusses the potential final start for Marc-Andre Fleury in Montreal, the NHL asking their coaches to cool it with verbal abuse of referees and the alarming number of teams who have had to ice a lineup a player short because of salary cap implications.Bill Zito, the General Manager of the Florida Panthers is in conversation with Russo discussing last year's Stanley Cup finalists on and off ice prospects for this season.Follow The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Welcome to your Tuesday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. It's Ian Mendez. It's Julian McKenzie. And yeah, we have a video component to this. We are streaming live on YouTube. And if you're streaming live on YouTube or watching this, you'll realize the two of us, it's a twinning Tuesday.

Winning Tuesday. We wear the same thing. without even realizing. Oh, man. Literally, we got on the recording and I just yelled out like, yo, I see, you're wearing the same sweater as I am. I can't believe this. It's athletic gear, though.

For the people listening just to the audio, we're both wearing athletic hoodies. The black athletic hoodie with the white strings, like the, I went to go full athletic and wear the athletic hat. And like all Ian is missing is that hat. But like I've never. I don't see as a hat guy. You're not a hat guy to me. I got hats.

I got the Dallas Cowboys hat. Do you, I always kind of feel like, and we have some other athletic gear, like just like a big letter A on it. And I always fear that we're going to get sued by like Alvin and the chipmunks. Because it looks like the A from Alvin. The A,

it looks like your hat looks like Alvin. It's like an A from Alvin and the chipmunks. Really? Yeah, they all just have large letters on their shirts. I think it was like a giant S. They're like yellow A's. I don't know. It feels a little like we're copyright infringement on Alvin and the jet mugs here.

Did you watch a different version of that show that I did? Because I remember these these chipmunks with these giant yellow A's on their shirts. That's what I'm saying, but large letter A. I mean, what? What should NHL teams get mad at the athletic because we have A's on the front of? of our uniform, or not uniform. Maybe. I shouldn't say uniforms.

Our apparel. Oakland. Oakland's baseball team. Maybe they're going to sue us. Yeah, I don't know. Did you see the video, not to go into another sport? There's a video for one of the players on the A's. I believe their name is Trevor May.

They went on this stream and eviscerated the owner. Oh, my God. That was his retirement speech. He's like, by the way, sell the team. Like, what? That's crazy. We would never get... Could you imagine an HL player doing that?

Could you imagine, like, an NHL player, and I know he's already gone. I'll do it. Why not? Could you imagine an NHL player who spent all those years in Ottawa retiring and saying, like, to the previous owner, like, oh, no, you know, like, just seeing all these disparaging things about them, which obviously not a nice thing to necessarily... It happened. Well, yeah. Anyway, look. Anyway.

Look, we're right into the... My plan was to kind of slowly ease into the Tuesday pod today. No. Kind of like we were Evgeny Kuznetsov on a shootout. That was my plan. Just slowly come into the pod. We came in right off the hop. Let's talk about this.

So the people who didn't watch or see the highlights of Washington, Calgary, the game went to a shootout. And this has kind of become Evgeny Kuznetsov's thing. He'll come. in for a shootout and he'll go like it's almost like he's not even moving like he is moving but he's barely moving it's the slowest possible pace he's going maybe two three miles an hour

slow slow slow slow stick handle stick handle stick handle he scored and I've seen a lot of conversations about they shouldn't allow this is this legal is it not legal where do you come down on ofgeny kuznetsovs shootout maneuver. He's going forward.

I guess he's taking his time, but he's doing, it's legal. I don't have a problem with it. I think we all know how the shootout is a gimmick. I've soured on it in recent years. I used to be a fan of it. I now would much rather through on 3.0. At this point, if we're going to get angry about shootout stuff, let's just get rid of it altogether.

That being said, if we're going to keep it around, the players, I think the skaters need, they need to be as creative as possible when it comes to trying to beat goalies. And I don't have a problem with if Getty Kuznet's off taking his sweet time. Just so long as it's not overdoing it, I guess. I was thinking about it this morning.

I wonder if it would work to have a shot clock for a shootout. Like say you give a player, what, 15 seconds for them to get their shot off? Yeah, like enough time to do it. maybe that's a worthwhile alternative where, okay, you could try it, but you have to get the shot off before then. Maybe that's it. Maybe you just, you give, because Zetsov could find a way to do that move, but he can't take more than 10 seconds. But even then, maybe that's not worth doing. Maybe, again, we should just get rid of the shoot out together.

I don't have a problem with it, but I think doing a time limit could be a compromise. Okay. If you're going to allow a time limit, and I'm not saying that's not a bad idea, I think that's a good idea. but then I think if you allow the time limit, then I think you should be allowed to skate backwards, go around the net, do whatever you want in your 15 seconds. It's your 15 seconds. I don't agree with that.

I think you need, no, here's the thing. I think you need to, it can't let it get to a point where you're doing all of these random. I mean, I don't know. I think going forward, that's the purpose of the rule that it's, I don't think you want to invite any other extra stuff by looping around or going backwards.

As long as you have some kind of forward progress, like you need a shot at the end of the day, right? Like it can't just be like, I don't know. You can't have Trevor. I mean, good you to Matt. The one thing I keep the kick of is remember that goal from Trevor Zegris, I want to say in January 2020, not the dish again. Not the Milano goal.

Not the Malano goal, but the one where he goes at full speed, goes around the net and does a lacrosse style stuff. Was that against the haps? That was against the Montreal Canadiens. I was in the building for that. Yeah. Like, I don't think that should be allowed in a shootout.

Like, I don't know if that's necessarily fair. Plus, if you're going to add a time limit, I mean, you can only have so much time to mess around. I don't know if that should be allowed. Well,

thinking of the pressure. Could Trevor Zegris pull that off? You know you only have whatever 50s and go. And you only have one shot because if you go to flub it, it's over. You got to pick it off clean. No one would try that. Yeah, but like,

it's tough for goalies too and you have to give them some measure of some there's to be some measure of fairness in this i don't think you could have that happen no behind the net stuff no going backwards especially if you have a time limit there's no sense going backward to begin with so just go straight to the net i don't know i again i just think the fact that we're nitpicking over rules just get to three on three OT and i don't want ties either make it continuous or just keep doing five minute periods until we get a winner. Like, I don't know. I think we're at a point now where the shootout has really lost its luster.

It's not as fun as it used to be. It's essentially like a momentum killer, considering how much fun OTs could actually be. Do you remember who is it? It was Edmonton, Linus O. Mark? No. Linus Omer.

Is that what, is that how you, well, you're saying Linus Omerk like the Boston Rooms goalie. Oh, Mark. Oh, like, oh, oh, man. Oh, wasn't that the guy? He took the, he took this, the shootout, and he did like a pirouette before he went into the zone. And people lost their minds.

They're like, the sanctity of the shootout. Like, what sanctity? I think, I think a, I don't think it was cool when it happened. But I think a much more egregious offense. So you could tell me, because this was an Ottawa senator who did this. I think it was Casper Doggivens. Casper's dog. He turned around who had the toe of his skate blade,

lead the bucket. He tried a spin move on net and it almost went on a stick. Yeah. It was unbelievable. You know, it's funny is I did a walk-off interview that night. Yeah. I was doing the broadcast. That night, David Crachie came out.

The Bruins ended up winning that game. David Crachie did a walk-off interview with me. And he basically said that was disrespectful to the game. game. Yeah. That Dogovins did that. The funny part is about two weeks later, Dogovins got put on waivers and Boston claimed him.

Like, what do you tell a guy like that after you play? Yeah, like two weeks earlier here is Dave Kraty. Like that guy is classless. And then it was like, here, meet your new teammate.

Casper Doggivitz. Casper's Doggivins. Oh, man. Monday night. Yes. We had a couple of coaches doing a couple of controversial things early. Which one do you is a little bit more like, whoa, that's, you're coming out pretty strong here, coach. There's Lindy Ruff who basically stapled a handful of players, including Tim O'Meyer,

to the bench in the third period in a loss to Florida. And there's Sheldon Keith, gets up to the podium in Toronto and basically says, well, my best players all gave the puck away the first in the in the first prayer which is the thing that you're like wow that's that's a gutsy move as a coach week one of the regular season you're going to do this who who who is more or i guess who's more taking a risk there keith or rough i i would assume it's it's it's lindy rough here i feel like sheldon keef has tried to call out his players before he didn't actually bench them in that case like i think if it gets to that point that's going to end up being a massive story knowing the market that they're in.

For Lindy Ruff to get to a point where you're benching Tim O'Meyer, this is a New Jersey Devils team that's supposed to be really good. We're putting a lot of hype on them, not to the point of like at Emmitts and Oilers, but to go to that point, I mean, it is typical of what coaches can do. They can wield that power, but I'm a little bit more shocked by that as opposed to Sheldon Keith once again, say, I guess players weren't doing well enough. Like, I feel like that's happened enough with the Toronto Maple Leafs where, I mean, you'd think for the players, they get that message, but that doesn't, that doesn't reverberate for me.

Yeah, I'm with you. I think when you actually hold the players accountable by benching them, but it's funny, right? Because I think sometimes as fans and his media, when star players have bad games, we're like, you should bench them and hold them to the same degree of accountability. And then when they do it, we're like, oh my God. bench Timo Meyer. I can't believe he did that. How was he?

No wonder they lost the game. You bench this guy for five minutes. Exactly. And if they lost three, two with Meyer playing, they should have bench Meyer and sent a message. It's like you can't win as a coach. I don't know,

man. Until we get until, I mean, I'm sure it's happened over the course of history, but like until we get like a very recent case of a guy getting benched by his coach. And then we get like tangible discord that we can dissect. and talk about on these shows.

It's very hard for me to get up in arms about a player getting bench. Like if we get like, if we hear like, oh, there's rumors of, of strife between Sheldon Keith and Austin Matthews after he was benched after this one game, then I could get excited about it.

But in this case, it's like, all right, that happened. The players could go to practice. They move on and, and go from there. If memory serves,

and I hope I don't get this wrong, was it the Devils? There was a team that had a massive bag skate this morning. It might have actually been the Devils after. the performance that they had. I'll double check. Yeah, it was. The Devils, after losing two straight,

there's a video put up by Anadua, I think works at the NHL Network. They're doing a bag skate at the devil's practice facility. So, yeah, if anything, that's work controversial than any of the other options presented because how many coaches, because you know you done messed up when you're doing a bag skate the next day.

Remember when the Devils, they were perfect in the preseason? And we thought, boy, they're going to come out of the gates and they're going to be firing on all cylinders. and here they go. A little bit of turmoil early in New Jersey. For a lot of people, sneaky, sneaky Stanley Cup pick.

That's where a lot of people thought of the Delos. Edmonton, sneaky, sneakie, well, not so sneaky Stanley Cup pick. Dave stumbled a little bit. And again, we had Daniel Nugia Bowman with us yesterday to talk about that. I do know that our pal, we had Daniel Nudjabomond yesterday. We do have our pal, Mike Russo set to join us here on the Tuesday show. And, you know, Mike Russo, I know you and I really enjoyed this column. In fact, when we bring them in here, why don't we just start by, first of all, by saying

hello, there he is, Mike Russo is, did Mike Russo get the memo to wear the hoodie? I should have brought the hoodie with me. I'm on a road trip. I should have brought, this is not an athletic hoodie. This is just a pullover. I was just listening to Lindy rough stuff. So I covered Lindy down in Florida in the 90s. This does not shock me.

He's an old school coach. The bag skates. frowned upon in this new era of NHL coaches, but it does not shock me that Lindy would go to that route. And, you know, and, hey, it's never too early to send a message when you're supposed to be an elite team ready to make a step this year. And, you know, it's funny. I was in Montreal last year,

and I sat down with Bill Guerin after four games and did a state of the team story like the sky was falling. Sometimes you get so entrenched early in the season that you think everything is just absolutely terrible, and you have to send a message and the wild quickly turned it around after that. Yeah, sometimes we panic, right? That's what we do in big hockey markets. We panic after week one.

Julia and I both really enjoyed the combo piece you did with Joe Smith. And it kind of goes back to that September meeting of all the coaches in Chicago. And they kind of got called a little bit under the carpet in terms of the way that they're or have been speaking to officials on the ice. and they showed a bunch of clips of F-bombs and some great quotes in there from the DeBoers and anyway, some great stuff in there. We would encourage our listeners to check it out. What was your biggest takeaway from writing the shut the bleep up column today?

Yeah, that the coaches actually enjoyed it. You know, like Pete DeBoer loved when I was talking to him, just giving it to Paul Maurice for being the star of the show. And Paul Maurice retorted the other day that Pete's full of shit, that he was not the story of the show, that Rick Bonas and a couple others were as well. But look, I mean, I think that the league tried to do it in a very lighthearted tongue-and-cheat type of way,

but there was no doubt that the message was sent to the coaches that this is not the image that you want and not the image that the league wants. Now, I know that the commenters on the story are saying, well, how about this, just deal with your officiating problem right now. But I think the other part of it is, and there was actually one comment that I thought was perfect on there, is they said, you know how like little kids, any lay players that they want to be when they grow up and be in the NHL, you know, when even youth coaches and other coaches see coaches going absolutely bonkers on officiating, this is a big problem on why maybe there are that officials at youth levels and lower levels of hockey are really abused during games, from parents, from, it's like everybody, feels licensed that you could just go right after them. So again, there's multiple ways that you can look at this story. But, you know, the one thing I want to make very clear is that this was not 100% like the

real reason that the coaches were summoned to Chicago for this meeting. But it was just sort of a lighthearted way to end the meeting and just sort of tell everybody, look, let's calm things down. And I think actually in the first week of the season, you actually, and I talked to a couple of referees this week, that it feels like coaches have gotten that message. Now, how long will that last in the heat of battle with guys like Paul Maurice and Rod Brindamore. I mean, we saw John Cooper lost it last night. So, I mean, you know, there's a lot of pressure on these coaches and sometimes when you're heat of it and you feel like your team was egregioned against by an official, you're just going to let them know. What about if the league institutes like, you know, harsher fines or

harsher penalties for coaches who get on at refs? I think that is something. I mean, we've seen Rod Brindamore and some others get, uh, get fine. I don't think that they want to throw any repercussions here. I think it was more of just a really, you know, healthy message to just say, hey, let's show you a video of what you look like. And do you want even your kids to see you like that? I mean, John Cooper was talking to my colleague Joe Smith last year about about the fact that, you know, his video coach basically had him, you know, filmed him during a game and just had him watch himself. And sometimes you just don't realize what you look like during a game. And we all know in today's TV world that anytime anything happens, gold, disallowed goal, you know, a close,

play a turnover, they immediately pan to the bench and show the coach. And I think that was really the message that the lead tried to do. So I don't think they wanted to do it in a threatening way where they think that this is some sort of epidemic problem. But I think that they, you know, by threatening them with all sorts of fines and suspensionists and things like that, I think it was more just, you know, just try to a healthy way to just say, hey, look, let's tone it down. This isn't good for anybody. I watched this video this week. It was a really old game. I think it was between the Jets and in Chicago and Chicago as well. There's this random play that happens in overtime.

There's like a little like scrum in the middle of the net. And someone throws like they throw the puck in the net. It never crosses the line. And there's a review. And when it's crazy, ruled in favor of Wittipad. Darrell Sutter comes from the bench and walks along the ice to the refs. And there's a whole bunch of players like in that scrum too.

But he's walking onto the ice that try to give the referees a piece of his mind. I'll say this. not trying to give any, I'm not trying to pick aside in all of this, but I'll say we have come a very long way from coaches leaving the bench to talk to referees in situations like that. Yeah, wasn't it Tom Webster? There was somebody with the Kings years ago. Yeah, well, back in them, I'm talking in the, in the,

I remember the coach, the King's coach throwing, this is before my time, but throwing a stick. Yeah, at a referee. Tom Webster, absolutely. Yeah, it was Tom Webster. And actually, I probably should have thrown that in the story. But yeah, I mean, there are, you know, we definitely don't see that anymore. And look, you know, I covered Brian Murray and Florida, both as a coach and a GM.

Ian, I know you know Brian really well. Figerie guy. And he, you know, I mean, one of the big reasons like GMs can't go to the rest room anymore or by former GMs like Brian Murray. I mean, this is not like a new, new problem. The difference now is the cameras are always on you. And I think that's what they're trying to get is. try to stop these viral moments from going all over the map.

I think was it not also, was it Rob Fittorick who threw a bench? Do you remember this? I remember that. Yeah. Yeah. Was Jersey or L.A.? It was New Jersey. Yeah.

It was New Jersey. Yeah. And he took the bench and he threw it out. It says what did get thrown out of the ice. It's like Wiley Backman in the miners when he like, you know, absolutely went crazy and, you know, through, what was he doing? It was like, you know, absolutely just throwing the dirt onto home played and putting every sort of piece of equipment out there and throwing on the field.

I mean, look, you know, managers, coaches against officials have been for the, you know, combative for the, for the history of time, you know, but I do think a lot of this is also on the, on the, on the refs too. I mean, you know, back in the day, you could have, get into it with a referee and you'd patch things off. And I think that a lot of times they feel that the referees aren't very communicative, but also have a quick trigger in terms of yelling, and also hold grudges. I mean, they're human beings, and it seems sometimes to filter into game to game to game. So I think that both sides here probably have a healthy relationship and make the relationship better.

Again, we want to encourage our listeners to check out the piece that Mike and Joe, Joe Smith did. Just a great look at the dynamic between coaches and officials. You know, one other thing we wanted to talk to you about, I mean, there's a few things before we get to your great conversation you had with Bill Zito.

Here we are week one of the NHL. And look, the team that I cover, the Ottawa Senators has had to do this. Vancouver's done at L.A. A couple of teams have had to play a skater short to start the season because of the salary cap crunch. How much of a and how much of a talking point are you seeing around the league about this here?

Yeah, this is a big topic. I mean, Daniel Nugent Hopkins, Scotty Bowman did a big story today on this exact subject. And I mean, what Daniel, yeah, I mean, I was, you know, you got to figure out, you got to throw the Nugent Hopkins in there since he covers the Oilers. Yeah. But anyway, I mean, look, it's a huge subject right now. And the wild are going to skate a man short tonight. I mean, they can't, they cannot afford a call up right now because they have three injuries.

And then basically the way it works, and it's, you know, frankly, it's, it's amazing. It's not more punitive. But if you play a man short at your position, you have to do it just for one game. And then you can call up a player that's a league minimum player plus 100 grand. So that actually gives a lot of teams the ability then in an emergency situation to at least field a roster and not put the players in dire straits. But, you know, and the wild, I will say, are going to try to figure out is it, you know, smarter to pull that lever or maybe put Alex Gossky on LTIR because it's looking like he has. a serious injury, sustained a practice yesterday. But look, this is an overall overarching problem that was very, very evident was going to happen this

offseason. I mean, first of all, we've had essentially a flat cap for four years. And yet prices continue to rise. And it's not the high guy is getting screwed. It's the lower level guys that are getting squeezed out of the league. I mean, we've seen guys like Juja Carrara is a great example. This guy's been in the league now for six, seven years in a row has never sniffed the miners and is now playing in Iowa right now, you know, all because of this very reason the wild couldn't

afford them out of camp because they were hoping to accrue cap space before they got banged up. And I just think that, I think, you know, I know that after the pandemic, the CBA was written in a way that essentially if the players still owed the owners a dollar, that the cap didn't have to go up. But it just seems foolish from both the league's perspective and the PA that they didn't come to the bargaining table this summer. and I'm sure there's a lot of stuff that goes into this and gives and give and takes and all that type of stuff. But even a half a million dollars, a million dollars to artificially move the cap up would have put a lot of teams in better positions. And I think that even the union has to look at themselves and say, hey, you know what?

There's like 25, 30 jobs that have essentially been cost right now with guys not in this league because teams are fielding 20 man, 21 man in the case of the wild tonight and 19 man roster. And it's a huge, huge problem. Now, is this a temporary problem, potentially, because the cap is supposed to go up $4 million after this year. There is a major regional TV issue here in the States, and I really wonder if that is going to affect the bottom line. We'll have to see it at the end of the year when the audits are done. But, like, to me, this was all avoidable on both sides here.

And I know it's very fashionable to blame the league on everything. But look, the PA and the, and the NHL really together should have come to the table this offseason and tried to figure this out. And Betman decided to just hold, you know, stern on this, on this, on the way that the agreement was, was ratified. And now we're seeing what happens here is where you're putting teams in positions where they've got to play. You know, tonight the wilds lineup, they're playing with 11 forwards and six defensemen, but four of their defensemeners, three of their defensemen are essentially guys that, you know, probably are on the periphery of even being in the minors. So it's, it's going to be an interesting game here in Montreal tonight. You mentioned the salary cap going up.

We've heard that from many an insider. I'm sure there's not a single hockey podcast you could listen to in the hockey world that hasn't acknowledged that the salary cap is supposed to go up by a certain amount in next year in the coming years. Honestly, since you're as connected as you are, how confident are you in that actually happening? You mentioned the TV regional rights potentially hindering some of that. Yeah, the only reason why I'm still confident is that at the board of governors meeting

the other day in New York, all the insiders that were there, LeBron, Elliot, Chris Johnston, obviously Dregor, all those guys, they all said that Betman basically came out and again said that their belief is that the cap will go up that amount. And so clearly, this is not a new thing to them to know that there are going to be a lot of teams here that are either going to have to, you know, potentially at some point this season broadcast their own games or aren't going to get paid from Diamond Sports, who owns all the regional's here, all the valley regionals here. So if they're already putting that in consideration, they must think that they're still going to be able to get to that, whatever that bottom line

number is to up the camp by that amount, that amount. But in terms of this year, it's obviously not helping Julian. And I just think that it's a real shame. I mean, that we're in this point. But again, you know, we do make a big deal out of this, but, but reality is that you're essentially playing one game short and then that's the only punitive damage that you have. And then you could, you know, tomorrow if the wild decide to go that way, they're going to be able to call up Kara, as I mentioned, or Sammy Walker or Vinio Letary. And we've seen that happen with the four teams that started opening night, a man short. And so there's always that way to get by with emergency recalls. But it just seems like a shame because the reality is from a union perspective,

there's too many teams right now that are at the bare minimum rosters as it is. And that's, you know, the reality is that's costing jobs. I mean, there's guys now in the minors or in Europe that should probably be in the national hockey. The wild playing one skater short in Montreal is one of the storylines heading into that game of the Bell Center. The other or one of them, Mark Andre Fleury. This might be the last time we see Flower on the ice in Montreal. It's got obviously just a great connection to that city and that province.

And I know you've documented that in the past and did it again this week with the Athletic. And I'm wondering, is this it? If you had to lay bets here, this is the last time we see Mark Andre Fleury Fleury. at the bell center? You know, all I can tell you is that Alan Walsh and I corresponded yesterday and he is fully convinced that this is not necessarily the end of flower and that he is

the type of guy that loves a sport and will want to continue to play on. And then it's a matter of, is there a team out there that at that point is going to give a 39-year-old goalie a job. And obviously, it depends on how Mark Andre plays this year. It's probably his last game in Montreal

as a wild player because I would think that they're going to have Gustus and next year with with Jesper Walsh stat here, and Flower will move on. But I could tell you that Mark Andre doesn't seem to know. Like, he genuinely says that he will make that decision at the end of the season. And because of that, his family is coming out to tonight's game and droves. I talked to his sister for this story as well, and she said in their eyes it could be very well be his last game in Montreal.

So clearly he has not made a decision and hasn't divulged that to his family because his mom, his sister, his aunts, his uncles, his cousins were all coming tonight's game just in case. this is the last sign that he suits up in Bell Center. I just want to say one of my favorite hockey moments of all time was being at the Bell Center for when Mark Andre Florey was a member of Chicago Blackhawks, and he's closing in on winning game number 500, and the clock is winding down,

and everyone in the building is getting up and cheering this guy. One thing about Quebec hockey fans, they love to cheer on Les Gush de Cheneu, and Mark Andre Flore is definitely one. one of those guys and to see everyone in the building cheer him and celebrate him and even seeing Canadians players stay on the ice and tap their sticks for him. That is a moment that's always going to stand out for me just in terms of hockey moments I've been able to see live. And if this very much is the end for Mark Andre Florey, I don't be surprised if we see fans acknowledge that

in some way at the Bell Center. Yeah, that was the lead to my story tonight, that exact anecdote, Julian. And I'll tell you, you know, I think one speaks to a respect level of Mark Andre Fleury. I mean, there's not a person in this league that doesn't love him and his, you know, his flair for the dramatic, his absolute, you know, childlike love of the sport that he shows every single night. But then it says everything about the fans here in Montreal, just recognizing the moment, the significance of 500 games, even though he's in a visitor uniform, 500 victories. And, you know, this is the start tonight. He's going to play behind a very disheveled, you know, makeshift lineup.

But this is a start tonight of what they are hoping will be eventually eight victories this season that allows him to pass Patrick Waugh for second all-time in regular season victories. And I know that that's a big thing in his mind because Patrick and Marty Bordor were two of his biggest idols growing up. And that'll be a pretty fun day in the National Hockey League. You know, I think there are some people that look at it and say, yeah, but he had a bunch of shootout wins. And there's no doubt he's the all-time leader in shootout wins in NHL history, something that's. Patrick Watt really never had the benefit of, but still, I mean, quite an accomplishment to celebrate a heck of a career. Mike, before we let you go and we're going to get an opportunity to listen to your conversation with Florida Panthers General Manager Bill Zito here, I want you to set this conversation up a little bit for our listeners. Talk to us about, you know,

where you track down Bill Zito and, you know, going into this, this is an interesting year, isn't it, for the Florida Panthers that they came off of an improbable run to this down Cup final. They still have the core of the great team there, but a lot of people don't know exactly where to put the Panthers. So maybe before we get to this interview, set us up a little bit here for your conversation with Bill Zito. Yeah, I've known Bill a long, long time because he was an agent before he was assistant GM of the Columbus Blue Jackets and eventually General Manager of the Florida Panthers. Back when I covered the Panthers back in the day, I talked to Bill a lot as an agent. And same thing when the Wilde years ago signed John Madden. And on the day that Mike Madano decided to sign that one year deal with Detroit, Minnesota pivoted and signed John Madden.

And the first person I called was Bill Zito. And so I've known Bill a while. I've been trying to get him to sit down for a pod for a long, long time. He likes to let the players and Paul Maurice be the spokesman. But, you know, hey, he had no choice. He was in Minnesota the other day for opening night against the wild. And so he graciously sat down with me. And, you know, the big part of this conversation is one looking back at last season.

I mean, this is a team that, that, you know, at one. point last season, not at one point, at many points last season, it looked like they weren't going to make the playoffs. And then they go on this magical run, beat the Bruins, and then go from there, sweep the Carolina Hurricanes in the Eastern Final, and go and play the Stanley Cup final against Vegas. And just were ravaged by injuries throughout that postseason. Obviously, they're still feeling the effects of it. They lost Matthew Kachuk in that series, but then they they lost, you know, Brandon Montour, Reinhardt, Bennett, Eck, Glad. They were all playing unbelievably hurt. And we're seeing, you know, Eckblad and Monta

out of the line up now. So what it also talks about is how, you know, at some points, fickle this league is that you could go to the Stanley Cup final last year, but you are not a guarantee to make the playoffs this year. One, and especially that division, but two with the injuries that they already have to start the year. So it brings you through that. It talks about his years as an agent. It talks about a lot of really neat things. And, you know, It was just what I like about sitting down with GMs, coaches.

I'm going to try to sit down with Tom McClellan in the next couple of days for your show next week. They sort of let their guard down in a room with a microphone and have a conversation. And so that's what this is, a real good conversation with the Panthers GM. So as we let you go here, have we just hired you as our like corresponded here? I know you're going to make regular appearances on the Athletic Hockey Show podcast. but we're also getting interviews like every week we're just throwing that out you're going to just go out and grab an interviews for us too i don't i don't know about every week but but i did ask i did ask when we were canceled um the athletic show a roundtable on wednesday is when we were uh you know merce just absolutely axed by the athletic i said well hey can i at least do these sit down still because i actually enjoy it i mean part of my you know what i love about this job i've done it now for 29 years is the relationships that you meet that you make with people in the game and And my favorite thing in the world is to sit down with a player, a coach, a GM for 15, 20 minutes and shoot the breeze.

And so that's what I try to make these things. So I can't say it's going to be every week, but I am going to try my best every week to get you, you know, a 15 minute, 20 minutes sit down with somebody that I'm crossing paths with. Because that's the good part with my day job as the wild beat writer is that I get to see so many people. So we're going to try to do that. That's going to be exciting regardless, Rand. Yeah.

You're really good at what you do, man. So I'm looking forward. Even if we, even if we just have you on just to shoot the breeze, it's always a good time hanging out. I'm definitely available for you every week for your chat, but I'm going to try to get you some interviews as well. We love it. Well, listen, thanks for dropping by here on Tuesday. And why don't we plan to set up? Hopefully you let us know when you get Todd McClellan, and we'll tee that up next week.

Yeah, we'll try. There we go. There goes Mike Russo. One of the best writers in the sport, one of the most plugged in guys. and he set the table for us, didn't he here, with this Bill Zito. So let's have a listen. It's about a 20-minute conversation, right? We're going to hear Mike Russo in conversation with Florida Panthers general manager,

Bill Zito. Really happy to be joined by Florida Panthers GM, Bill Zito, and I think everybody that knows me knows my soft spot for the Florida Panthers organization. It's how I got my start for this, in this incredible vocation I've had for the last 29 years, I started in 1995 covering the Florida Panthers. It's a really good year to start covering the Florida Panthers because they went to the Stanley Cup final. And last year, getting to cover the Eastern Conference final bill and seeing you guys grab that Prince of Wales trophy, then go on to the Stanley Cup final, come up a little short, but it was still,

man, it was just such an incredible experience for me. I can't imagine what it was like for you. Yeah, it was very strange. You think in your life that you're going to have certain situations if you ever get there, it'll be like this. And what a little bit unique for me was as an agent, I had a number of players go through the Stanley Cup finals, win, some some didn't win. And players that I was pretty close to at the time. So sort of living through their experience,

I had some maybe preconceived notions in what it would be like. And it was, of course, nothing like that. Right? So, but here we are. And we battle on and try to be better. Just, I mean, I think one of the coolest parts of me watching the finals was seeing the reaction in the GM suites on a lot of those last second wins and seeing Matthew Kachuk's goal and just seeing your reaction with Roberto Luongo and all that stuff. I covered as a goalie there. Like, how is it like you pretty much after the trade deadline, I know as GM, it sort of like really slows down.

but the stress level there, as you're watching these games, but also preparing for the draft and things like that, how did you negotiate all this type of stuff between going to the games but working during the day? Yeah, there was certainly a level of concern, you know, given where we were in the table and thinking, I think, realistically, it wasn't unrealistic. In fact, Paul and I talked around the holiday time. If we can just carve out two points a month, we should be okay. You know, as we as we got into the playoffs, of course, the Boston series was surreal. I mean, you know, don't get you.

We didn't go in and blow Boston out of water. Right. Right. There's some. You eliminated the best team ever in the age. Yeah. But as it went on, you, the, I think the manager part of you put you into the mode of, what can I do to help without getting in the way? that was every day you'd wake up. Is there something, is there something I can do to help the situation, make it better, but not, don't try to fix something that isn't broken and what have you. So that, that was something that sort of went on on a daily basis. And emotionally, hey, we're people.

We just, we got excited. And I think, even if you were not a Panther fan, you were just a hockey fan watching those games, there's a degree of excitement when overtime goals are scored. in certain situations. The multiple overtime game in Carolina was interesting because I had been part of the one. In Columbus. Yeah, with Tampa. And so it was a little easier, I think, for me to kind of maintain a little bit of, okay, here's where we are.

Here's what's going on. I know it didn't show. If you can't have fun, you know, get out of the business. Yeah. What was it like in the final? And, you know, you have this great aspiration to win this cup, but deep down, you know how hurt you guys are. I mean, I'm not even talking about the Kchuk injury yet because that happened later in the series, but you know what Montor was battling through, Eckblatt was batten through. I mean, you know, was there this level of concern?

Like, are we going to be able to, you know, ice a team and fulfill this dream of ours with the guys that were going through such a battle? Honestly, and maybe it was not realistic. probably wasn't. No. At that point, you're thinking, we're going to win, right? We, doesn't matter. Think of all the things that we've gotten through to get ourselves here. We'll find a way. We'll find a way. So that was the mindset going in, honestly. Yeah. So you come into this season now and you now have the repercussions of those injuries, Montaurs out of your lineup, Eckblads out of your lineup, Sam Bennett's not playing at least the opening night game. we're recording us on Thursday in Minnesota.

How do you get by this? Because I remember talking to Paul Maurice at the Stanley Cup final after game six there in Vegas. And he basically said that, look, next year it is not a given. When it's not going in as the Eastern Conference frontrunner, we are going to have major injuries and we have to battle to make the playoffs again. Certainly. And as we break down where we are, I think we have a different. probably viewpoint and perspective from which to gauge our own opinions of where we are,

it's going to be hard. I mean, our division is stacked. Everybody's improved. Two of our significant, significant contributors on the back end are out for a couple months. It sounds cliche and maybe it is, but we're going to do the same things that we did last year, right? Take it day by day. focus on the positives. There's opportunity there too.

On the back end, certainly there's a silver lining where maybe some guys can come out and get a chance. On the front end, now there's more responsibility. Maybe we have to play a little different. And all those things come together.

I don't think any single factor is of unique importance other than, look, we've got two pretty good players out of lineup. Tonight, Sam's out of lineup tonight. Okay, well, we're pretty deep at center. So there's no reason. And we're not going and thinking, oh, my God, we can't win the game.

Right. We're thinking, and we just have to keep going. We'll figure out a way. That was the mantra last year, and I do think that that's part of the mindset of our collective, of our team. And certainly one of the big things that happened last year, and I can't pinpoint a specific time, that trust between the room and the coaching staff, it's there. Yeah. And so it's so powerful. It would be very, very interesting.

to see because it's real. And I think that the players truly believe in the coaching staff, and the coaching staff truly believes in the player. Yeah. And is that why you brought in Paul? I mean, Paul, he's a communicator. You know, when I, I know as media, we love talking to him. I got to think that was probably one of the things that really drew him. He's a communicator on multiple levels. So intellectually, he understands the game. And it's, it's impressive. but he has an ability to convey that message. And most important, to listen. So his delivery of the message to you may be distinct from the way he delivers it to me, right?

And that ability to have, I've said this before, this emotional intelligence, it's powerful, it's inspiring. It's helped me so much. He's taught me so much. He's a unique person. He did take hockey out of it. just a significant, significant reason why we were able to have some success last year. You mentioned you're an age and you were one of the same thing. I mean, when I was a young beat writer, you wanted the favorite people to call and talk to.

It's funny. I just wrote a Madonna story the other day. And what happened right after that Madonna didn't sign with Minnesota. Who signed here the same day, John Maddo. Yeah. By a little Zito. Yeah. So what was it like sort of crossing over learning in Columbus under Arnarro and that crew

and then getting this job in Florida? What is it like? So all of a sudden, flipping sides where you're negotiating contracts. And, you know, I'm thinking of the Chuck deal as well. You know, all of a sudden, your job is to try to keep that lower where, you know, previously your job is to make it out. Yeah. Yeah.

I think the negotiation part, it's almost now become easier than it was. was when we started, there was no cap. Right. And there weren't a lot of agents. There wasn't a lot of changing and switching between the players and the agency. Most of the guys would get an agent and that's how it was. And I don't think you were really publicly judged on your performance. Now, this is going back to the 90s. Right. So you do the right deal for the player and move on. Now, I think that there's an environment that's maybe more difficult. But we're spending to the cap. Right. I joke that, you know, what I'd like to do is get the free agents in a row,

explain to them what I think the ARB numbers are for the guys who are RFA, and say, you guys split it up, let me know. Spend it all. So that, it's almost harder to nuance the cap and try to keep everybody happy and keep everybody bought in. Right. And it's, it's daunting and it's going to continue to be daunting for us so long as we want to try to, you know, to continue to be better. and build a franchise the way it should be.

We saw four teams last night I'd already have to play a man short because every team it feels like is right up against the cap. And I think there's going to be a lot of teams that have to do the same thing this year, play the man short to be able to go make calls. You know, like I was talking to an AGM yesterday

that Pacey said he just still can't believe that the league in the PA couldn't make some sort of deal to bump the cap up a million or two. How hard is this for you guys all now functioning, you know, managing a team? it's got to be hard for the players when you have, you know, frankly, a bunch of guys in the minors right now that probably feel like they, we should be in the NHL. We had to play short last season and you get through it, right? It's just like someone getting hurt in the game and you deal with it.

And it really is one game, right? That's the only punitive. Well, it depends. If you didn't have anybody who fit the formula, which, you know, was 850. So a lot of the players were not able to be recalled in that situation due to they, you know, their cap, it was higher. So it's $8.50 or less. Correct. You get through it.

You know, everybody, everybody's subject to it. Sometimes it happens. Sometimes it doesn't. I will tell you that in the course of the summer in trying to get some free agents to come. I said, I can't. I need that extra money. I don't want to be in that situation. Right.

One point. One point is a difference. Yeah. So you don't ever want to give up that point. Yeah. And it, lots of cliches in our game, but that's, that's real.

Yeah. And so, you learned it. I remember I covered one of the first Minnesota teams I, I covered missed the playoffs by the point, you know, and they were all going back like, that disallow goal, that Roberto. There's a Pascal de Puegel in Vancouver that went over the line that

they found the video after the fact. Roberto was really sly, by the way. And, like, keeping that puck out of the net in the wild, still feel it. Well, they should have made the playoffs then. Let's talk a little bit about the team here. I mean, Keith Kuchuk, I mean, sorry, Keith Chuk, Matthew Kachuk. Keith is still banned, by the way.

I did ask Matthew at the media tour if Keith is a lot of speak on behalf of him. And he is not. He is still banned from talking to the media after his little radio interview last year. But Matthew last year, I mean, to see him become the player that you expected to be when you made that monster trade for Hubert O and signed him with that deal, And not like, I think a lot of people like, all right, he's going to a new place. Is he going to be the same stud that he was in Calgary? Then he comes here and he is just talk about a big game player.

Yeah. I mean, it's, it's been beating the death, right? The story has been beaten to death. He was a very, very good player. Yeah. Who fit what we needed. So when you look at, you know, you have the physical ability. You have the skill set.

You have the hockey playing ability. How do we get the most out of it? And then where does the personality? Where does the leadership? Where does that style play fit? It was, you know, it was the perfect fit, right? We needed that gregar. We needed a big personality.

We needed guys who play hard, a little bit of an edge who have some skills. Like, it just worked, and it worked for him too, right? So now he comes. He's in a place he likes. He's comfortable. And it's more of an essay on maybe what we're trying to get for every player is put you in a, celebrate what you do well. put you in a situation to succeed and try to make sure that we do everything we can

that we can control in a first class excellent manner. And then, and off the ice allow you to be a person. So for Matthew, it just kept checking boxes, right? You know, his playoffs were extraordinary. Yeah. And that's him. Yeah. And talk, I mean, somebody that is absolutely a spokesman for the organization,

a face for the organization, to see him. going on TNT last year in the NBA finals and, you know, and in a market that I know extremely well that you need to have that flash. You need to be out there in public. And he seems like the perfect personality. You know, you mentioned Walt and how much of Matthew's poise is just a function of growing up as an NHL kid. And so you're right. He's the perfect guy. It doesn't affect him one way or the other. I don't think you could look at any of the things, the off-ice asks of him and say, oh, it affected his on ice. It's just he is who he is. He's very good at it. He's sincere. He believes in it. And it's, we've been very, very fortunate.

I wanted to ask you about Spencer Knight, you know, how happy you're just to see him back now, his presence. And then, and what is the plan? I mean, obviously, he's down the miners right now. What is the plan right now with him? Yeah. And the plan was, as soon as we got, you know, we got word a little earlier than you guys, yes, he's coming back. He actually. He actually, he had actually came to Florida early to train with the guys and be around. We have the luxury of having effectively two number ones. And so if Bob's in the net, well, Spence doesn't need waivers this year. Yep.

So why would you have him not playing? So now he can go play and be ready and be part of things in the American League now and just play hockey, just play hockey. And the other stuff will, we'll sort itself out. And Stalars has been good for us too. I like it. So there's no,

but we have a luxury expense doesn't need waivers. So we're going to take advantage of it. I know, I know this isn't your pay grade, you know, selling the tickets and all that stuff. But has the excitement, as far as you know,

carried over from the playoffs, you know, getting a bump at the gate. You have a naming rights now at the arena finally, which has got to be fun. But are you starting to see just excitement again in South Florida

that you guys are starting up. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's big, we talk about it pretty frequently because we joke about it a lot. And one of the, you know, one of the positives is you come down, don't worry about the pressure of the media. The athletic doesn't cover us. Yeah, I know. I know.

Trust me. So, President's Trophy, stay on the cup finals. So tell Custin's to get on it. I know. I know. Trust me. So, but even Chuckie's like, you know what? Yeah, no, no, no, it's getting more and more.

I'm getting it. So for people that, like, nobody knows. I didn't play. Nobody knows who I have. And I'm getting more and more. Hey, are you? You know, at the Dolphins game, the other day, I got a lot of, like, more than one, like, multiple. So that tells me, yes, people are aware of who we are.

I mean, they sold out the season tickets in the lower bowl. That's awesome. That's awesome. And when you come to the games, the fans who come, they're into it. Yeah. I would come down, cover a Panther game, and literally the PR department would say, hey, do you need a row for friends and family? We'll give you a row on a lower bowl and just hand me to you.

And you know what? In fairness, isn't that the case with a lot of franchises and tell you, and that's exactly what we're trying to do. In tandem with Matt Caldwell and those guys, we're trying to say, we're trying, we're still trying to build a franchise. And it's not easy. It's daunting. And it's probably the most difficult sports marketing environment.

Maybe in the country. Absolutely. Because so much. So many options. Yep. And then the weather, the sea, tennis, golf, take the dog for a walk, hang out in the backyard. Yep. So I tell people that all the time.

And I think that, you know, everybody knows a soft spot I have for this organization. But I think that people don't realize that, you know, the people that make fun of hockey down there pre last year or two years ago, you know, find me a mark in this leave. It doesn't make, doesn't win a playoff round since 96. until two years ago and see if you're going to get a bunch of fans to come out. The fans are there. I've seen it. Yeah. I covered Pavel Burry there when that, at that time, National Car Rental Center was sold

out every single night. The fans are there. You just got to even reason to show. The fans are there. The appreciation of the game and the excitement is there. And we just have to be consistent in our approach to winning. We won't always win. Yeah.

And, you know, there's ebbs and flows. and the, my friend the CBA is making sure that it's daunting. But it's same for everybody, right? Absolutely. But it's, it's really fun. It's a great, great hockey, truly great hockey environment. Take the other stuff out of it. The fans are great.

They're passionate. I mean, even in training camp, they're practices. They're, they're, it's fantastic. Yeah. I'm with you. I think the athletic should cover you guys. I remember when I worked at the Sunscental And after the lock out in 05, I wound up moving here to Minnesota, but they said to me, we want you to go and cover something else.

And you're not getting clicks and all that stuff. And I'm like, well, you know, you realize that if we don't cover them, it's going to be that double-edged sword where, you know, you're going to always say, well, the fans don't show up. So why should we cover them? But maybe they don't show up because you're not reading about the team, not seeing about the team. And I just think that, you know, it is, I wish the newspapers, I wish the athletic were around you a lot more. So that's my opinion. I'm not going to rip the athletic, but we'll take shots at customs. Yeah.

This might be my last podcast. Just last question for you. How was your summer? I mean, obviously, there's that sting of not, of not, you know, obviously being able to hoist the cup. I know you had, I saw you walking around. You were a little banged up your well. It wasn't just your team. You were banged up.

But did you do stuff to relax this soft season to enjoy yourself? Yeah. You're setting me up now. Actually, I had knee surgery two days after Dr. John Uribe. There's this plug. I walked out. I remember John Greberie from one night was down there. Marlins guy, right? I walked out. Meniscus surgery, but I walked out of the hospital. Wow. Shouldn't have. No painkillers either. Yeah. I had some Advil that night, and that was it. Yeah. Fantastic. You know, it's funny because it actually made us, well, we'll see. We think it made us a little bit better and a little bit more efficient because you don't have as much time.

Right. So you have to, there's so many things you think, are there. least me. I can only speak for myself. In this job, you have these ideas of what needs to get done and how they need to get done and the stages of levels, the degree to which you complete them, and then you have time taken away from you and you're like, it just has to get done. Right. And so we became more efficient and understood as a management staff and really, really coaching staff as well, what's the most important. So we had to prioritize. We had to be more efficient.

And it really helped. Hey, Bill, lots of love this season. I'd love to see you guys get back to that final round. I think it would be awesome. Plus, I love covering the Sanico Final in Florida, exactly.

And I promise you the athletic will be there for that. Your band. Yeah. Thanks. Yeah, Bill, really appreciate it. I've been trying to pin you for this podcast for a while. And finally,

of Minnesota to get it done. Yeah. I'll send you the bill. Yeah. That is our Bill Zito. Back to you, Julian and Ian. Great conversation, Bill Zito with Mike Rousseau. My favorite part is Bill Zito name checking Craig Custins.

Yeah. Hey, you better cover our team. Yeah. Even though Craig Custin's no longer on the Tuesday show, still mentioned on the Tuesday show. Yeah. But Chris Custon is high up now, though. Yeah. He's a big dog now.

I mean, he was always a big dog, but like, he, he's a big dog now. He's, he's gone on to do bigger and better things. So I know it was tough for a lot of people to know that he was not going to be doing the Tuesday show anymore with Sean Jit Till. It was a good show. Well, he's not doing it because he's, he's so high up the corporate ladder. We can't even see him from where we are. Man, that's how I got up customs is. I had to, like, book an appointment to, like, talk to him on the phone over this.

I'm half kidding. But, like, his schedule's very busy now. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, I thought that was a great interview. And I loved him, I love Bill Zito talking about as well as like, you know, we needed a big personality when they brought in Matthew Kachethe. We needed a big personality. And he says, you know, and it's good.

Let's let everybody do what they do best within our umbrella, you know, to paraphrase it. Anyway, great conversation. And you leave these types of conversations. And I always feel like, boy, how do you not pull for the Panthers now, right? and Bill Zito and the Panthers. You want to see them do well, don't you? Yeah, I'll say this. I got to talk to Bill Zito for a story I wrote last year on the Cichukh

Hebrido trade. And the way that Bill was bigging up Matthew Cichuk. He was talking about being in player meetings well before the trade even came together. And they were looked, obviously they look at all the players around the league. And they look at Matthew Cichuk. And Bill's just like, like, man, like this is the guy. Like, this is such an ideal player. Like, if there was a way for him to be available, like you make that happen.

and just, you know, when the trade gets consummated, like I remember Bill saying, like, you know, it's Matthew Kachuk, like all roads go back to that player. This is like, it's one thing to have, you know, Bill say, you know, they need that personality. But Bill genuinely wanted, was enamored with this player for quite some time. And I have to say, I mean, I get in Calgary, a lot of people are still kind of sad about the fact that it ended the way that it did.

But Matthew Kachuk is the biggest winner in all of this. the fact that he gets to play on a on a on a on a florida team that expects to be competitive for the foreseeable future gets to play in a warmer climate state and we've seen him get a lot more it feels like he's getting a lot more shine on his play uh the people magazine feature that came during the playoffs the appearance on the nba on t and t panel i wonder if those same opportunities come if he stays in a canadian market if he stays in calgary i don't think it does and and and the personality that that he has too. We need it in this game. So, yes, we're going to debate about that trade for years to come. And you might be able to call the Panthers an early winner. You know, it's really hard to judge trades off of one year.

But I think it's very easy to say that Matthew Kuchuk is a big winner in all of this because of the exposure that he's got. He's a top 10 player. You could argue even top five, maybe before the start of the season with Austin Matthews. But Matthews Chuck is a top five player. And he's shown that he can be. that off of his first year in Florida. You know, Matthew Kuchuk returning to Calgary last year was one of the most

anticipated returns. It was an emotional evening. Same when when Johnny Goodro returned. We're going to get one of those on Tuesday night in Winnipeg. Pierre Luke Dubois makes his return. Now, granted, you know, he didn't spend as much time in that city as Kachuk did in Calgary, but he certainly left an impression and he certainly was a polarizing figure. and I thought our colleague Murat did a wonderful job.

He tracked down Pierre-Luc Dubois, did a couple of interviews with him, gave him the opportunity to sort of share his insights and so why he asked out of not only Winnipeg, but also Columbus. And if you read the, I don't know if you read the comment section on that story, it's wild.

Like people are blistering, Dubois, they're blistering Morat. They're like, hey, I look at it as, you know, Murat offered Pierre Luc Dubois an opportunity to share his perspective and feelings. Now, if you don't agree with them, I get it fine. But I read that article and I learned something. I learned a lot about Pierre Luke Dubois's mindset,

about why he may have wanted out and the impression that, you know, Bobrovsky and those guys and Panarin left on him in Columbus, and all those things. So I learned something. But the vitriol from the comment section, Julian, I think he's going to bleed out inside the arena this evening. It's going to be, and we'll talk about this on Wednesday.

We can do the full recap, but I'm thinking the temperature is going to be boiling over Tuesday night for Pierre Luc Dubois. I'm always going to be a fan of a player who takes agency of their own career and tries to put themselves in the best possible situation. It might not have been perfect, but not on any, I can't think of any of those situations that are perfect for players that want to make it clear that they want to go to, they want to leave a particular city and go somewhere else. I know a lot of people were still up in arms about the shift that he had in Columbus. That was the part of the story that surprised me the most. That shift.

That he had a shift to forget in Columbus. And he and John Tortorella are still on good terms. like I was I was stunned at that revelation like I and I get like John Tortorella very prickly personality personality wise to say the least and the fact that P.L Dubois and him have a they're on talking terms like I was stunned by that but I don't blame them for for wanting to seek other places to to play especially if you have other guys in that room in Columbus who are saying you know what man like we're we're leaving after this year no matter what you know if other guys are able to take advantage of that why can't Pierre Luke Dubois make that work for him.

And look, I mean, I can also understand being a fan and being upset at a player not wanting to play in your market. You know, you cheer on your team. You want your team to win and you want guys who want to play on your team. And I think the Winnipeg Jets have a bunch of guys who want to play in that market. And they, I mean, look, Mark, we were talking with Kevin Shevoldaoff yesterday about Mark Shifley and Connor Hellebuk who signed long-term deals to stay in Winnipeg. For a guy like Pierre-Lu-Dubwebif, he doesn't want to stay there.

He doesn't want to stay there. But I'll say this. I think the fans have every right to feel the way that they want to feel. But I also think PL Dubois is right in his conviction to want to go somewhere else. Pierluke, Du Bois told reporters on Tuesday morning in Winnipeg, he knows that the booze are coming and that, hey, look, that when you say my last name, Dubois, it kind of sounds like boo. So he said, you know what?

I'm just going to go ahead and assume they're saying my name. That'll be the, I was saying Boo earns. I didn't realize PL Dubois. had humor like that. Like I didn't realize he was he was snarky like that. I didn't know that. That was also something that was revealing from that article too. Miranda Taf did a really great job on that story.

He's been killing it lately, to be honest with you. I was telling him that this morning over slack. But yeah, I'll make it known over the wire. He is killing it. Yeah. So Dubois will certainly be a talking point over the next 24 hours, how that played out in, in Winnipeg. Monday evening, you know, we were so excited.

We talked about this on the Monday pod. It's Bedard. It's Matthews. That matchup didn't quite take. Neither of them scored a goal, but God of Bradard's dad took center stage. And it was like every time the care, and I feel bad for parents who go to watch their, their daughter or son perform as an athlete,

and the cameras are on you. Of course you're going to be throwing your head back and you're going to be super nervous and you're going to be putting your, you know, biting your fingernails and all that stuff. But it was like, that man went through every emotion on Monday's broadcast. It was like his acting, like if he was putting a demo reel together as an actor, he's like, here's my full range, here's me excited, here's me exasperated, here's me angry. Like, you know, every emotion, Bedard's dad hit it.

It was pretty good. I'll say this, like, I was having a conversation with a friend as all that was going, on and they couldn't believe how Connor Bred's dad was just acting the way that he was. And I can't help but wonder if any of us were parents to a generational talent or any of anyone who was good enough to play at the highest possible level for a sport, would we not act the same?

Ian, you have kids like if one of your kids was playing, got drafted to the Dallas Cowboys or got drafted to some other NHL team, are you not? in the, are you not in the arena losing your mind at the possibility that they might score touchdown or score a goal or hit a home run? Like, we're all doing that. So I have a hard time getting on Connor Bedard's dad for for acting the way that they were acting over their kid. Like they're living the dream and they get to see it up close. Like, I'd be freaking out too. I hope we give them more grace. Can I ask you a question along those lines for you and the listener?

And I know you're, you're too young, so you don't have kids. But I, I, I, want to ask you this question because I'm fascinated by your answer and I'm fascinated to hear from the listeners because I had a debate with one of my buddies years ago about this. Okay. So let's go back to you're a parent. Let's say your child, you are a diehard, die hard, die hard Montreal Canadiens fan. Okay?

You've grown up. You are a huge fan of the HABS. Your son is a huge fan of the HABS. It's in your family for generations. your son is drafted by the Boston Bruins. I knew it was going to go there. Okay. Who's the team that you cheer for now moving forward?

Man, I probably still cheer on. It's the worst example. I can't cheer for boss. I'm asking you. I can't cheer for Boston. That's crazy to me. I would cheer for my kid and I would want my kid, but you're not going to see me the arena work of Bruins jersey.

But your kid plays for the team. And by the way, this could work for Edmonton, Calgary, Calgary, Calgary, like if I was growing up a big Calgary Flames fan and my kid got drafted to the Oilers, I don't think I could bring myself to be an Oilers fan. I could be happy that my kid plays on that team. That's crazy to me, man. And I have a jury for myself, but I don't think I'd go so. What?

I don't know if my kid. Like, like, and you know this, I'm a die hard. What if my kid change? Yes. What if your kid changes teams? Then, then that's my favorite team. And then when my child leaves the sport, then I go back. to cheering for the team that I always did.

But for the window of time in which my child is in the sport, that's my team, I'm pulling for them, I'm cheering for them, I'm following every game, I want them to win the cup. I'm pulling, you could pull for your kid and you could follow their success. And if the team is doing

well, you could be like, oh, that's nice, but I would stop myself short from being a fan of that team. Oh, like, I would be the biggest fan. I don't know if I could do that. Especially not for a rival team. I'm saying the biggest rival. I couldn't do that for a rival.

If my kid, if I grew up, if I grew up a Canadians fan and my kid got drafted by the Seattle Cracken, yeah, I'll buy the Seattle Cracken merch. If it gets picked by Vegas, if it gets picked by Tampa. But that's not, that's not the scenario I laid out. I said, I understand that. But my point, it's a lot easier as opposed to being like, oh, I'm going to be a fan of an arch rival team. I can't do that.

No, I, no, I can't do that. I can't do that. Well, help us out, listeners. I have no problem supporting my kid. and give me all the paraphernalia. I'll have it in my basement and show it off to all my friends. And be like, see my son over there? Yeah, you're putting in Boston Bruins.

That's fine. But be a fan of the team? No, absolutely not. Okay. So here, one last thing before we wrap up this pot. Sure. Your child will call them J.M.J.R. Julian McKenzie, Jr.

J.M.J.R. Julian McKenzie Jr. is playing for the Boston Bruins. your favorite team as a kid and always had been let's say the Montreal Canadians. Right. It's game 82 of the regular season. The winner of game 82 goes to the playoffs.

Who are you cheering for? Oh, that's tough because Okay, so that's my question. Actually, you know what? You know what? You know what? I win regardless because I don't, no, no. No, I win. You know, I win. I'm not cheered for. No, I win.

I'm not true for anybody. I win because if my team makes it, oh yeah, in the playoffs. If my kid makes it, I'm getting playoff tickets. I win. You can't do that.

Okay. So you're going to go down to the locker room after the game. Your child's team's lost three, two, and you're like, hey, it was win-win for me. No.

That's- I'm not good. Ian, Ian, I wouldn't do that in front of the players of the locker room. I might do that on the right home, but I ain't going to do that. What?

But if you go down to the locker room, do that, it's like, guys, you guys suck. Well, 200 out the other team. See you next year. I'm telling you. I think, good way to get your ass kicked in the locker room, by the way.

I would give up my allegiance. If my child made to the age of all, that's my team. And it's not even a question. But it's really interesting to me. Like, I'm fascinated by your answer. And I'm not saying you're,

I'm just saying, I think we have different. And I love that. I love the different perspectives. I just don't think I could. cheer against my child. I know in the NBA, I don't have a team I support anymore.

I support players. So that's also, I mean, I get they're not my kids, but because of the fact that I am capable of being a fan of players, regardless of what team they play for, that has allowed me to be able to separate a player from a team and just acknowledge that,

hey, they're just good. And it doesn't matter what team they play for. So why can't take it? I do that with my own offspring. Why can't I do that with my own kid? I'll tell you what. Here's the place for the Boston Bruins.

Like, fine. I don't have to like the team or the organization. And I realize that people listen to this. Like, I'm not trying to be a hated with the Boston Bruins. We could use another franchise as an example. But like, I could just support my kid. And maybe if it was another team that wasn't an arch rival, I'd feel differently. But like, just I don't know if I could bring myself to do that.

Like, imagine you. So you mean to tell me that if your kid gets drafted by the Leafs, you're a Leafs fan? Yeah. I'm, I would, I would probably have a hard time putting the jersey on, but that is my team because that's where my kid plays. So you're, wait, wait, wait, time out, time out, time out, time out. You would have a hard time out putting on the jersey. So you would support your kid, but you're not going all the way in and wearing a jersey? What's the point there?

No, I would. I would. I would have to. I don't know about that. Yeah, I would. Yeah. You wearing a Leaves jersey? Yeah, good luck with that. Well, if my kid played for the Leafs, I think it would be understandable. You're pulling up to Scotia Bank Arena and you're wearing that jersey, knowing that, and knowing you, you're going to be on camera that Ian Mendez, his kid is playing in this game.

If my kid played for the Leafs, I think people would understand. For the Ottawa senators, just cheering on his kid. People would understand. Well, I'll tell you what we're going to do. We're going to ask our listeners here in the next couple of days, tweet at us, let us know. where you stand on this, if your child was drafted to the arch rival team that you've cheered for your whole life,

who's your team? And let's use the game 82 as the, or a playoff meeting as the litmus test. That's, yes, okay? They're head to head, it matters, who you're cheering for. And I'll tell you what we're going to do. Sean McIndoo, down goes Brown, is going to jump on the Tuesday, or sorry, the Wednesday show with us tomorrow. Yes. Sean Diehard Leafs fan he's got kids

we're going to ask him his kid is drafted by Ottawa who's he cheering for and he's going to have some smart ass answer I need to hear this okay yeah that's what we're going to do Jesse Granger is also going to drop by

on Wednesday we'll talk some goaltending stuff with him so we got McIndoo Granger all of that coming up on Wednesday hey man this this this This hour flew by. This was great. I was about to say, it was a really fun time.

I mean, all these shows have been fun, man. So I'm happy about that. And I can't wait for DGV and Granger tomorrow. Yeah, love it. So thanks for listening to the Tuesday pod. Follow us on your favorite podcast platform. Leave us a rating and review. You know, we'd appreciate that.

You can follow us as well on YouTube. YouTube.com slash at the athletic hockey show. A lot of great content. A lot of these debates that we have. They're going to put them up. You're going to see Julian and I in matching attire. you're not going to want to miss that. So enjoy the games.

I know it's a busy night. You know what I love about the Tuesday night schedule, Julian? There's a game that's Monday was five games. They all started at seven, which was like, boo. Tuesday, there's a game at six, a couple games at seven, a couple games at 7.30, game at 8, game at 9.30, game at 10. It's staggered. Why is it so hard for the NHL to understand that we want more of that?

Exactly. Stagger them. Stagger the games. enjoy the night, enjoy the games, and Julie and I will hit you up again on Wednesday.