The Athletic Hockey Show - Flames offseason continues to get murky, a free agency primer with Dom Luszczyszyn

Episode Date: June 23, 2023

Hailey Salvian and Sean Gentille are joined by bestie Dom Luszczyszyn to dive into the news that Flames players Elias Lindholm, Noah Hanafin and Mikael Backlund may not re-sign in Calgary, and how that will shape the team's offseason. Then, with July 1 around the corner, a dive into free agency, and also, the toughest decisions teams will need to make in the offseason, including the Golden Knights, Panthers, Canes, and more. To wrap up, a look at the trade board. (Please note: No teeth were seriously injured in the making of this episode)Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowThis episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/ NHLSHOW and get on your way to being your best selfSign up for a Chime Checking Account today to link your paycheck. It only takes two minutes and doesn’t affect your credit score. Get started at chime.com/nhlshowHead to factormeals.com/nhlshow and use code NHLSHOW50 to get 50% off your first boxFor 15% off MudWtr go to mudwtr.com/hockeyshow and use code HOCKEYSHOW to support the show and get a discount!Stay cool and dry all summer with Birddogs and get a FREE Yeti-style tumbler at birddogs.com/athletic use promo code ATHLETIC at checkout Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Hello, everybody. Welcome in to this week's edition of The Athletic Hockey Show. It is Friday. It's Haley Salvi and Shand Tilly. It's the last show before the draft. It's the last show before free agency. Well, we're not having a show before free agency opens. We should say, this is the last Friday show before things get very busy. So, We've brought in our friend, Dom Lus Chishin, to join us to do more of a free agency primer. Actually, we're just going to ask Dom about the top draft eligible prospects today. Nice.

Can't wait for that. Tom Willander. Yeah. Who do you think is going to go first overall? It's a tough one this year. A lot of options. Yeah. Number one.

There is no consensus. Number one, Connor Bedard. Number two, Connor Bedard with a mustache. Number three, Connor Bedard with a pair of funny glasses. Number four, Adam Fantelli. That's Dom's, that's Dom's prospect board. But no, Dom had the top 50 unrestricted free agent list. He was looking at what Austin Matthews could sign for.

Contract guides. How much do teams pay different players in free agency? So lots to tee up with Dom, but first, hello, Sean. Hi there. Is this the last show period before the draft for anybody or just us? No, there'll be a prospect show. Who hosts that? I think it's Craig Custin's. He doesn't even host his own show. What are you talking about?

No, it's Max Boltman. It's Corey Prondman. They are going to have a lot of content between now and the draft. The first round is on Wednesday, second round Thursday. And then there's a next round. NASCAR race on the weekend. If you're interested in that, that's all happening in Nashville. But they're going to have three podcasts next week, is my understanding. They're going to have a Tuesday afternoon before the draft. Then Wednesday night recapping the first round and then Thursday night recapping round one, round two. And then they'll obviously have their show that comes out on Fridays as well. So check them out for tons of draft content. Max and Corey are the reasons why Sean and I will not be recording next week.

And we thank them for it. You know what you should do today in addition to the UFA talk? Uh-huh. Is make sure we hit up trade stuff, like trade speculation where, like where we can. Because the UFA market sucks. Yeah, that's, we were getting to that. I know. I don't say it off the top because people, because people are going to hear top 50 Eurobase.

We don't want to hear this bullshit. We don't care about any of these players. There will be trade discussion mixed in. Absolutely. And welcome, Dom, hello. Hi. Thanks for doing this today. Always a pleasure to be asked at 30 minutes before the show.

Hey, do you want to come on today? And then I'll be like nap or talk to Sean. Yeah, right. You make it sound like you have some like big slate of stuff to do ahead today. You don't. I know. I considered going for a bike ride. And then you considered not.

This was the like, oh, great, now I don't have to go for a bike ride because I have to do the podcast. I like going for a bike ride. It's very nice to be driving down the lake. And it's terrible after five when all the, all people are done their normal jobs. What's tight about our schedule right now is that we don't have to do power rankings today. So that that has completely changed the complexity of my Thursdays because they used to be like nonstop because of that because of this record because of some other things that I would typically do on Thursdays. It was always just, it was brutal.

And now without like six hours blocked out for that bullshit, man, I'm like, I'm free. I can do whatever it wants. You have a glow like you can't see this. You have a glow about you. It's because I'm, it's because I'm recording. a bathroom, something backlit. But yes, that too. Jesus. All right.

So first before we get to the free agency primer and looking at some of the potential trades, I guess this folds in with that, but this is a bit more team-specific, a bit more newsy. So this morning, this Thursday morning, Frank Sarajevoly sent out three tweets that just ruined everyone in Calgary's day. devastating. So first up, Calgary made a big pitch, rolled out the red carpet to try to re-sign Elias Linholm. The flames are waiting on a response from Linholm and have not been given a definitive answer yet, but General League speculation is he's leaning toward not resigning

with Calgary. A couple minutes later, the belief is that the flames have received a more direct answer from defenseman Noah Hanofan, who was clearly indicated he does not plan to sign an extension in Calgary. And then finally, on the Flames, a bit of a surprise. This is again from Frank Saravali. He's told that Michael Backland is also leaning toward not resigning in Calgary. That could change. And the Flames hope that it does. He's been a staple for 15 years. Nonetheless, Craig Conroy, new GM, friend of the show was on here a couple weeks ago. His summer, we already knew it was going to be busy because we knew that he wanted to, not go into the season with seven players who were going to be UFAs in 2024.

But it's just that picture of the business that he has to do. Just got a little bit clearer. Dom, what should the flames do? It's a tough call. I remember last year when they traded Kachuk for Hubert-Oen-Wieger. A lot of people kind of thought that the best direction might be a quick weebe. build where you flip those assets into futures and the flames instead signed them for eight years hoping that they would be part of the next core and here we are where the next group of the

core ready for ready to be signed says no thank you and i think it's it's especially tough because i think all of us here probably think this flames team is not as terrible as their record was last year And if you wait until the trade deadline to trade these players, you run the risk of being tempted to go for it at the deadline because you might have a better record than anticipated. And then you risk losing all of them for nothing, if they don't change their mind. And maybe they do.

Maybe Backlund is one of those players. Maybe Lindholm is one of those players. But I don't know, it just feels like the best course of action is trade them now while their value is highest, especially Lindholm. I think if he has a second year away from Goodronka-Chuk, where his numbers are a bit more lackluster, his value on the trade market might go down. And I think for his sake, if he's looking for a big extension, it's best to sign it as soon as possible if the number really is $8.5 million or whatever, because I would not commit max term at that price for Elias Lindholm.

Is, do you like a, okay, so we're looking at the trade board. Do you like Elias Lindholm over Pierre-Luc Dubois, right? He's the, he would, is he the best center who would realistically end up on the tradeboard at this point? I feel like. I feel like it depends on what teams need, right? I think there's good teams that have Elias Lin-Home as like a better option for their roster than Pierre-Lucbwa. I think what I'd like more about Du Bois is that he's four years older. He's entering his prime and he just had his best season last year.

Yeah, sorry, for he's younger. Did I say older? I don't know. Yes. It is nap time for me. My brain is a little jealous. But yeah, he's younger. Baby brain.

My baby brain. Nap nap, nap. Goose, Guga. Yeah, he's younger. And I think at this stage, they're close enough that I would probably, prefer Dubois. The only issue is that you don't know whether Dubois wants to stay or not, and whether you're just trading for a one-year thing. This really does.

Hit Hammer's home. What a tough spot Tray Living was in last year, because, you know, he makes the trade. He pulls off, you know, at least in terms of present-day assets, as good of a deal as he could have done. I know everyone, you know, the hindsight's 2020, but yeah. we'd still safe to say that that's a trade that we came out of saying like, oh, holy, holy hell, look at this. Yeah, remember the St. Louis rumors? Well, their package was pretty bad. I feel like it's really easy right now to look in hindsight as well and know that there was

reportedly a package from Carolina that had like Martin Natchez. And if we're thinking of where the flames are at right now, it's probably that would have been the better trade for this team, right? because they're a little bit younger and they have a new GM and a new coach who want to play like younger, more skilled offensive players.

So maybe Martin Natchez looks better in Calgary, but also at the time, Martin Natchez wasn't a 70 point player and who would have said no to 115 point Jonathan Huberto in that moment. So it's tough, but I think it's the eight-year deals that makes it tricky. And I think we also need to remember, though,

is everyone was saying if tree living doesn't lock those guys in, this trade is no longer a win for Calgary. Right? It's like you need to sign them immediately. Whereas I feel like obviously now hindsight 2020, they would have been better off with the flexibility of not having done that. I think the question is how much we can absolve Brad Tree Living for those eight year deals. And I don't know the answer to that. I don't know if we'll ever really get. We'll never know.

but something we always need to remember, and I'm not trying to make excuses for general managers or executives, because more often than not, those guys have final say, they have agency. We don't need people going back and, you know, absolving them of their biggest mistakes. But I think in the case of true living, that is something we need to consider. We need to think about what his boss is, what his big boss was saying about, you know, the money that they had earmarked for Johnny Goddrow, what they should use it for and how to proceed with Jonathan Euberto. But it ultimately doesn't really matter. The end result's the same, is that they have two guys who are, you know, signed into their,

well into their declining years to enormous money. And those are the roadblocks to the rebuild. Those are the reasons that it's not like 90, like a hundred times out of 100. Craig Conroy, like gets the call list together, starts like selling anything that isn't nailed down. It's because you have those guys, you know, in the fold, and they're going to be, they're going to be tougher. They're going to be a hell of a lot tougher to move than Elias Lindelm and Noah Hannafin, whoever, who were, who would be two top five players, like in the combined UFA trademark at this point. So it is. It's fascinating.

It's a fun wrinkle to add to the whole deal, you know, a week before everything hits the fan. Yeah. And I think that kind of skips ahead. right, because Don was saying he should absolutely be trading these players, but I think that opens up the other part of the conversation, which is if the Calgary Flames do trade Elias Linholm and Noah Hanifin and Michael Backland or a combination of two of them this summer, do they need to take a step back and rebuild?

And can they even do that with two eight-year deals about to kick in plus a long-term contract for an Osam-Cadry. You've still got Jacob Markstrom signed. He's got a no-move clause, but I wonder, I feel like that's something that would be waived if the player doesn't want to go into a full-blown rebuild in Calgary. But I think they've got some roadblocks to a rebuild here.

And John Bean has even gone and said, this is the president of Calgary Sports Entertainment. He's not allowed to say the word rebuild. Mm-hmm. So, like, we can talk ourselves around in circles and say, well, they should be taking a step back. They should be taking a step back. That's not the MO in Calgary. That's not how you're going to sell season tickets to a brand new arena that they fought to build for years. So this is going to be a team that is going to be stuck

in the middle for the foreseeable future. If things move in this direction of they trade three big pieces and still need to try to find a way to recoup enough assets to try to get into the playoffs, kind of like the Winnipeg Jets saying that they want to still compete, even though they're probably going to be without Connor Hallibuck, Mark Schifley, Blake Wheeler, Pierre Leap de Bois next season. And the timing on this is just so brutal for the flames too, because if this happened in a normal year or a year down the road, things would be different.

But now they're trying to move McKenzie Weeger, theoretically they'd be trying to move McKenzie Weeger and Nazam-Codry and Jonathan Euberdow in a year where the cap effectively isn't increasing. Nobody has any money to spend. Or if they do have money to spend, it's earmarked for retaining their own guys or whatever else. This sucks for Calgary. I legitimately do feel bad for Craig Conner because it's like here. Like you got, you're in the chair now.

And you might have to make some true no-win decisions. Or you are either that or you are being, you're going to be expected to do it to pull off some shit that you might not be able to pull off because of factors outside your control. It's tough. Dom, do you think that there is an ideal landing spot for somebody like Noah Hannafin, like a top pair, top four at worst, 26-year-old defender? Probably Buffalo, right? I feel like their big thing is their defense last year was extremely suspect. They have two franchise level guys. They could use someone like Hanifin who could really solidify the top four.

You have Howard, Dahlene, Samuelson, Hanifin. I think that's pretty solid. I think that would be the best case for it. It's just the decision really is if you want to go into the season with all these guys. and see how they do, see how happy they are away from Daryl Sutter. Because I feel like a lot of the team was completely burnt out. That might be what's shaping their decision to not want to sign an extension. And maybe waiting that out is the play because winning games obviously changes vibes

and culture. And the vibes could not be worse right now in Calgary. Yeah. So there's risk no matter which way you go. I don't know, it's not an enviable position for sure. And I think the one thing I want to say about Hubertow is, if there was a mistake, it was signing him before we played a single game for the Flames. I don't know.

And it was, and it shouldn't have been Bradtree Living that he went for dinner with before he signed the dotted line. He should have went out to dinner with Daryl. I'm serious. Might have changed some things. Well, Darryl was pumping his tires at training camp saying he was the best passer he's ever seen or whatever. Totally. But those relationships obviously devolved throughout the year. And I think I can say in the reporting of the Calgary story that posted last week with me and Katie and Julian McKenzie, who's the Flames Beat writer now, stole the job. Just kidding. He took over my job. Losing made everything bigger in Calgary last year. Like even some of the minutia in Calgary was.

a big deal or had like tension surrounding it like to the point of even like the wives room was something that people talked about it's like this is a crap facility the arena's old like some of the wives weren't happy there's turmoil between the coach and players between the GM and the coach like just all these little things and it was all just made bigger by the fact they were having a losing underperforming bad season. So yeah, Dom, the vibes were not good last year, but the flames cannot go into a year with all these guys potentially going to walk for nothing.

Like, it's not worth the risk. I don't think, because I don't think, I think that there were guys who very clearly did not want to play for Darryl Sutter anymore, but he is not the only reason somebody would want out of Calgary. Like, from what I understand about the Johnny Godroo situation, I mean, he loved playing for Darryl. he talked about it on podcast.

He said, I loved Daryl. And his dad was a very tough coach. His dad's a very hard coach. And so Johnny thrived under that environment. Johnny Goddrow was like the example to guys in the locker room of, yeah, Darrell can be a hard ass, but it's water off your back.

And he went out and scored 115 points. Like he thrived almost in that environment because he was used to that kind of hard-ass coach because his father himself has told me that he coached that way. And then Matthew could Chuck as well. I don't think that Darrell Sutter was the reason

that Matthew could Chuck left Calgary. And so those are just two examples of like, sure, Darrell can be a hard ass, but he's not the only reason that somebody might leave. Like maybe someone just doesn't want to play in Calgary. Maybe somebody like Noah Hanifan who grew up in Massachusetts

wants to go close home. He doesn't want to live in Western Canada anymore. He wants a better tax situation. wants to live closer to his family. Maybe like there's always other reasons other than just the coach. So I feel like risking it, hoping the vibe is better is not worth it for guys who probably have made their minds up, especially at least when we're talking about Noah Hannafin, because Hanofin seems like pretty more direct of like I am not resigning. So I feel like you can't take that risk. Just send him somewhere else and try to maybe Oliver Shillington's your he's your top four

upgrade and fill out your third pair somewhere else. I don't think you risk it with these guys. Not after what happened with Johnny. Johnny walked for nothing. You can't. Yeah. And it's, it's tough, too, because like Conroy is like, he's a culture guy, right? He's a positivity guy. Like, you, you can imagine a scenario where he comes into this and he's like, he probably thinks that he can fix this. You know, you can imagine him saying like, but he also said I'm not having the Johnny thing happen again. And that's, that's, like, he's, like, he's, like, he's learned from experience because God knows he was a part of that front office. Like, he sees how bad things could go.

But man, like, you can imagine somebody like, okay, like, maybe if we just win some games and he comes in, he's in like, and Huska's a better fit for this group and whatever. Like, you can like squint and see how someone would say, like, yeah, let's try to give it another try and they just, they can't, they can't do it. Yeah. I think the other thing with is that if you trade Linholm, that, might be a blessing in disguise in the sense of not having another eight-year overpaid player on your books with Eberdow and Weger because he might be worth

$8 million now. He's also going to be like $29.30 when that contract kicks in might be for the best. It's a fair point that will age probably well in a couple years. I'd be like the Carolina hurricane should just get Lynn home back and like give him a fair contract and maybe Linhom will be like yeah I miss Rod so much I will take a bit less he loves them right Rod loves Elias for sure um I've talked to Rod Brindamore multiple times with that person so I feel like even at the deadline I was like Lynn home to the Cades let him do they have money they have money they've got money to spend um and he would help with the goal scoring aspect he scored 40 goals like a year ago

so. My sleeper pick for Hannafin, as we go back into more specific, like, destinations. I'm going to take this from me. I brought this up. This wasn't your idea. Okay. Hanifin to the Penguins. I think that's something that would make a lot of sense.

Yeah. He is a Boston guy. Mike Sullivan, also Boston guys. It's like, well, you're not going to the Bruins because they have $5. and cap space. But you can play for Mike Sullivan who elicits feelings

of being at home. And a guy like Hanifin, he is good enough to dictate where he goes. Like he can get the Kachuk treatment and say like, here's five teams or seven teams. Like you land me on one of them,

like fine. And then also, once you have that preliminary list, you kind of like twist the screws and enforce your way to where you want to go. I think Pittsburgh makes a ton of sense. I think something like,

you know, a draft. the pick and maybe Pierre Olivier Joseph was like something that would you know make it that would make sense as a is a starting point. Did I say Pierre Olivier Joseph? I did. It's not why I was laughing. I was going to say I'm throwing Michael

Cranlon's contract. I'm sorry Julian. I don't know. You see something like something that crazy. He got ripped for that and he was tweeting about it too. Somebody tagged me in the story and he was like, I'm not doing another one of these. I got destroyed in this one. Those are those are

Because you threw in Michael Granlin's crap contract on a Hanathan deal. Julian learns his lesson. Sweet Julian, don't do trade proposals. They don't work. No. Because even if you get the trade right, then people will still be like, well,

there's no such thing. Yeah. That's getting a trade right online. I am going to say. Even the GMs who make it, they don't make the trades right. No. I will say, and Sean was there,

he can attest to this. When we were doing the, where could Matthew could Chuck be traded to list. Yep. I had like some info. I mean, we sourced it in the story of like some of the teams on his list. Yes.

And Florida was one of them. It was good information too. Yes. It was very good information. Florida was one of them. And Sean and I were like, there's no way. It was I, I honestly. And we tried to work the numbers.

We straight up, I feel like Sean might have said they wouldn't need to trade Huberto for that. I seriously think I. I seriously think I said that. I was like, well, they'd probably have to trade Uber out. They would never do that. So we took them out.

And we took it out of the story. And the story did well. It was fine. I thought it was still good. We flushed out all these examples of where he could go. Who had the space? What had the assets that Calgary be interested in? And then, you know, a week later or whatever.

Matthew could just say it's traded. It's been a year late. We're a year out. We can, we can say this like after the fact. We had, we had the list. You had the list, basically. that wasn't just like that wasn't just you throwing darts and saying like oh baby you could end up on this like like we had we had the list of preferred teams and then convinced ourselves that the panthers were impossible i'm shocked you didn't just include that detail because that feels like so up your alley to say well sources say panthers are on the list but like they'd probably have to trade like huberto or something that's like that sounds so shocked and be crazy and we got ripped to the comments people being like well this didn't age well I was like, I know.

I know. Buddy, you have no idea how poorly it is. And we didn't have any worse. We didn't have the list per se, but what we did was like go through a list of teams. And they said like, yep, no, no, don't include that. You'll sound stupid. Yeah, that's fine. Yeah, that's fair.

Don't say that team, you idiot. And but we were like, well, I'm, the story was already too long or something. And it was like, well, we're going to take out this 300 words. about how the Panthers are never going to happen. Because they would have to trade Huberto or we're here. And that's why we writes the story, maybe even both. Yeah.

And that is why Dom writes 10,000 word articles because he'll never, like he'll never have a moment of, ooh, I deleted that because he writes the longest stories on this website. If you include every option, you will never fail to include the correct one. That's what I'm right. Exactly. There you go. That's right.

All right. I think we've spent about 25 minutes. minutes or so talking about the Calgary Flames. They are going to be a team to watch over the next couple of weeks. Seems like Craig Conroy is going to be busy. They've got a 16th overall pick in the first round as well. Dom, who do you think they should take? Oh, will Connor Bedard be available?

If he drops, they should absolutely take that guy. I feel like that would be a huge win. Move down to Connor Bedard and a clown wig in that spot. Various incarnations of Connor Bedard. Yeah, that's right. Okay, when we come back from this quick little ad break, We're going to head into the bigger free agency primer, look at some more trade candidates that are not from the Calgary Flames with Dom.

All right. So free agency is back on a regular schedule. So July 1st, NHL Free Agency opens. This is our final show before that happens. So Dom, you did this a few months ago now. So maybe there's been a little bit of change with certain players who are off the board or players who, I know there's one very special player who's off the board, or players who are expected to be testing the free agent waters, sounds like a lot of Leafs UFAs might hit the market,

Justin Hall, specifically very important, Michael Bunting. It's not a great free agent year. It's already a pretty overhyped day. People get overpaid this year. is going to be tough for that. Dom, what do you make of this year's free agent class? I feel like this could be

absolutely disastrous based on what we've already seen for prices for Severson, Gavrikov, Athanasiou, I just with such little needle moving talents available,

I think the lack of supply, huge demand will create some astronomically stupid contracts. And I think the best course of action is if your team does nothing on July 1st, you'll be having a great time. July 1st, July 5th, I don't know. It's the 5th. I mean, it's the 1st.

It's the 1st. It's back to the first. Did you not listen to my intro? He's completely blacked out and didn't listen to the second of what you said. I literally just said, it's back. It's back on July 1. I heard back. I heard July and then my brain went to another planet.

You just started hearing like, whoop, bop, bop, bop, that's the penis adults. Yeah, yes,

exactly. It's the T, it's the Charlie Brown teacher. That's the joke. Yeah. I think what's going to save people, or what's going to save some teams, is that nine teams have more than $10 million in projected cap space for

the season once you factor in RSAs and stuff. Like, there isn't that much money flying out. So that's going to stop people from making, stop teams from making like the David Clarkson decision or you know the Matt Boleski decision are these players who we've seen over the years who sign these contracts that are shitty on the day that they sign them and only get worse from there on now there just isn't that much money to throw that now is that to say that there aren't guys

that aren't going to get overpaid and the mistakes aren't won't be made like of course not but I really do think that the 83 and a half million dollar cap is going to screw over players, A, who otherwise would have cashed in, but B, prevent teams from making, you know, big time capital and mistakes. Well, we're probably going to see more Gavikov-type deals, right? Guys setting themselves up to get a payday two years from now when the cap goes up more and they can actually cash in. I'm sure we'll see a couple long-term deals.

And some of those teams that have a lot of cap space or teams that are going to be on the upswing or rebuilding. The Red Wings have so much money to work with right now. So does Anaheim, but those also, like, those probably aren't teams.

A lot of guys would probably sign, like with Anaheim, we saw last year with Klingberg, right? He signed a big ticket, one year deal to try to boost his value and then get flipped at the deadline. So maybe we'll see a bit more of that this summer. Maybe.

I think it also hurts that, Vianchel's favorite money laundering outfit, has decided to stop money laundering. And it would be interesting if they sign some real players for once because it feels like maybe they're ready to be on the upswing. I don't know. Who are you talking about? The Arizona coyotes.

For now. For now. So what's the date? June 22nd? Okay, we'll see. Yeah. Yeah, you look at some of the top guys. I look at Alex Killorn and his projection on evolving hockey is,

six million four years. I don't, I want to believe that's too high and it won't happen, but like it could. And that would be really bad because he's 33 and he's already showing signs of decline. It's a city miles on that dude. He's played he's played a lot of hockey, a lot of hard hockey over the last few years for sure. Like you wonder what Ryan O'Reilly will get? A lot of city miles there and Patrick Kane, a lot of city miles.

there and he already has no hips or whatever. He's got a terrible case of no hipitis, yes. Who's the top player for you guys right now? Was it to meet your love? Yeah, I think so. I think he, like, I mean, I saw, I think Frank Zerevelli said he might get like $8 million or something, and that would be colossally stupid.

But like, I could see it because he can play tough minutes. He can play on the top pair. It's just he's also 30. and I don't know how much more effective he'll be going forward so yeah I like him a lot I don't know how much I'll like him on July 1st when his new contract is probably way more than last until 20 30 whatever 2032 yeah okay who's uh are there are there like some some mid-level maybe under under um overlooked players like from the from the mid-class there that you think some teams will be smart to go out

and and pick off um i i wonder what eric gustafin is going to get because he was a forgotten player for the leaps yeah but the way he played when carlson went out for the caps i think is worthwhile and i feel like he's going to be someone who's cheap who at the very worst can crush sheltered minutes and perhaps can do a little bit on that if what we saw last year was real. It's possible he also gets a stupid contract. I don't know. But I think he could be like the next Kevin Shattonkirk if Kevin Shattonkirk got paid an normal amount.

That's great. I love that that's like, well, that's like how we're framing the UFA discussion. Like, yeah, maybe kind of like Kevin Chattonkirk. Like, let's get excited, folks. Let's go. Yeah. Carson Sousy, big fan of the Sousse, size, defensive ability. But I wonder if people go crazy because he has size and defensive ability,

even though he's really only played on the third pair in Seattle. Those are the guys that are going to get Carson Sousy, Scott Mayfield, Ryan Graves. These, like, these defensemen who are tall, are the ones who are, if anybody benefits this offseason, it's going to be them, right? because that's like that that's the flavor of the week because of because of what we saw from the from the Vegas golden nights big boy pierre wrote it it's now gospel and the big boy himself yeah you know why it's gospel because 11 different GMs told him that yeah come on it's gonna happen it's gonna happen and it's like it's not entirely wrong to think that as well it's just you should be finding those next guys not paying for these guys who are going to be not worth that much and on the wrong side of the age curve. Like the reason Vegas succeeded is they found those undervalued guys. They developed their own. And when it came to find an elite player at that level in Petrangelo, they paid for it, but they didn't overpay.

And I think that's the mistake people are going to make here on July 1st. Do you think Michael Bunting is going to get a bigger ticket or is he going to be one of those shorter term, like prove it again? I feel like Mason Marchman is a decent. His second contract or the one that he just signed last summer is a decent comparable. But I think Bunting also had better success at the NHL level before hitting EFA status. So he's going to be an interesting case. Yeah, it always depends on where you put him. Michael, Michael Munting isn't driving his own line, but he put him with a superstar.

He has shown a great ability to thrive in that setting and be the type of. before checking presence that those types of players need a couple years ago i was really high on zach hyman for the same reason but a lot of people thought that contract would be disaster two years later he's he's thriving in the right fit the right role and i think yeah yeah so if you put bunting in a similar situation i think he can he can do well there if you put him if you bring him in and expect him to be a top line player on his own merit then that is where things go wrong the other lesson from Zach Hyman is he didn't get power play time with Toronto he's getting it in edmonton that's part of his value michael bunting same story didn't get much power play time i think he can

potentially up his numbers if he gets that on a on a different team and a maybe a net front presence role is there a forward out there who you think would make sense to do the gavracov route where they sign uh you know a shorter term deal a two a two or three year deal so they can set themselves up you know down the line a couple years whenever the cab opens up Like is, is there a guy out there? Because I feel like, I feel like we're going to see that somewhere, but I'm also interested to figure out who, who does it. I hear Mike Bunting, great example.

Does he bet on himself down the line or does he say like, well, I think you need to cash in. I don't, I don't know if I'm going to get another year or two playing predominantly with, you know, superstar or the couple superstar forward. So maybe I should cash in now. Like, it's not one of those things. It doesn't work for every, for every player, I don't think. I wonder if I think Barbershev is an interesting one because he can cash in off the playoff, but before that he wasn't very good. So I wonder where his salary comes in and whether he wants to prove he can be that difference maker over the next two years and then cash in again.

I think the same goes for Bertuzzi in sort of the opposite direction where he was really good with Detroit, sort of off this year, then went to Boston, was really good again. and he he's not young. He's, I think, 28 or whatever. And I think a two-year deal, you can cash in again when he's 30, could work out, but... I think that whole thing screams for Bertuzi, right? Like, if there's a short-term deal in Boston.

Yeah? Yeah, they're going to need... They don't have any money, but... They're going to need players. They're going to have to... They need to fill out the roster. I cannot wait to see what the Bruins do on the draft floor and stuff.

I'm going to be watching their draft table. I'm just going to be standing there. If you see me at the draft, following Don Sweeney around, it's because I am obsessed with their cap situation. Don, Don, Don.

Can I ask you a couple questions? Where's the money going to come from? Where's the money? The Barbishov conversation's interesting and are all 32 on the athletic that came out on Thursday morning is quite interesting as well. Every team's toughest decision.

from Alex to Brinket to Tristanjari to Aden Hill versus Ivan Barbership. So this is quite interesting. This is from Jesse. Basically, the Golden Knights can bring back nearly their entire lineup from their Stanley Cup run if they choose to with really only two key players set to become free agents. Those would be Aidan Hill and Ivan Barbischoff. They're going to hit the open market on July 1. They both had very strong post seasons, which could boost their market value,

but Vegas could retain one of them, but not likely both without a salary cap shedding move. If you guys had to pick between Ivan Barbashev and Aden Hill, who would you pick to stick in Vegas? Probably Barboshev. I think Vegas proved with Aiden Hill specifically that they can just do whatever with any goal. Yeah.

And they have, is Lainer coming back? I don't know. There's still, that's the thing. There's question marks about Robin Lennar. They also still have Logan Thompson. I like Logan Thompson. He was like kind of the proof of concept, I feel like, of last year where it's like... Well, everyone wanted...

He was the... He should be winning the Calder over Maddie Baneer's candidate early in the season, right? Yeah, and that was fake. And we learned that. We learned how... Because I remember when I was writing the articles early on the season, everyone was saying, whereas Logan Thompson, I'm like, big defense is very good. They're propping up his numbers.

And I think we saw the proved concept of that throughout the playoffs where... We know that he can... We know that he can thrive in that environment. I think is the way to put it. I'm not trying to overly gas up Logan Thompson and make it sound like he's a world beat or something because look, man, we just saw Braswa and Aidan Hill and these guys. They all did well. They could go cheap on the goalie if they have to to keep Barbashev in the fold.

And that line was so good. Even like even just like aesthetically, right? Like something about something about that group just made made too much sense to me. Yeah. I say you keep Barbashev personally. And then let Aiden Hill try to be a number one goalie somewhere else. Because I think he was great in the playoffs and that's going to boost his value. But I think we also have to remember this was his first year starting more than 25 games in a season.

So keep that in mind. Also on the Robin Leonard conversation, Kelly McCriman said that it's too early to be talking about his future with the Golden Knights. So keep that in mind. Harry said it's quote too premature to talk about Robin Leonard's future. Wink, wink, wink. Yeah. So that was a fun one. This was a good story, actually.

The All 32, Sean, was there a couple debates in here that stuck out to you? I, well, I'm maybe biased or just fresh around my mind. I had to write the Panthers section. Oh. But like, so it's the Panthers. Well, no, seriously. All right. We're talking about the defense.

Eastern Conference Champion. Aaron Eckblad is seriously hurt. I think his foot fell off or something. Clinically dead. I'm not sure. I'm not sure of the medical terminology. You get a terrible case of a foot fell off. Stop it.

Don't joke about that. That's horrible. Brain and Montor, Labrum issue. We all know those take hockey players a long time to recover from. That's a tough, that's a tough rehab. He should be able to do that over in off season. I don't know TANF did

Chris Tanev is A warrior He's an uncommon Fellow Here the point The point is that they're going to be missing those guys At the beginning of the season Matthew Gachuk also broke his

Sternum Sternum Yeah sternum The Pianthers have money to spend They have Patrick Cornfish Coming off the books There's still some buyout money tied up with Keith Hume

their cap situation is actually really funny but that's that's not really the point they have money to spend and now all of a sudden they have a need or two on the top four so they were kind of like you know when we're talking about hanifin i know i know he's like he's the he's the flavor of the week because of you know for obvious reasons but that that's another team where i'm like i why i wouldn't I wouldn't hate that. That would be interesting to me. Florida trying to find some way to bring in hand in him because he's a... Very good friends with Matthew.

Really good. Yeah, exactly. Really good friends with Kachuk. Really good player. And also, regardless of what happens with Eckblad or Montor, they still need someone else. And that was where they had to scrimp and save last year with some of the cap stuff that they were working through last season. which seemed like it was going to be a reset year at one point, basically, right? Because they were waiting for some money to free up.

So as a long-term answer and a short-term answer, I think the Hanifin discussion when it comes to the Panthers is interesting to me. And the reason I said that is because I couldn't think of anything else. And I wrote that one in particular. But there is great. There is great. Now I'm scrolling through it, and there is great stuff mixed in. I think the canes are interesting because,

as both of their goalies and their tandem from this year and last year, the one that a year ago won the Jennings. They're both unrestricted free agents. There's also Pieter Kochekhov kind of waiting in the wings. It seems like they really like him. So I'm curious to see if they keep one of Freddie Anderson or Auntie Ranta to kind of shelter Kachkov just in case he's not ready to take on one B duty. So you want to have a number one goalie?

or if they just kind of like Vegas go on the cheap with an unrestricted free agent goalie because their defensive structure is so strong. They also have guys who are eligible to sign new contracts. Like Sebastian Ahjo is one of those guys who can sign a deal on July 1 because he's going to be a UFA a year from now. Tavotera Vinen's one year away from unrestricted free agency as well.

We know they, yes. I mean, Jordan Stalsy. It's wild. It's crazy. Basically, every single, The only person signed, the only person who is on the books to be paid in 2025, 26

is Cochneemi. So I'm watching the canes. And Cochekhov. Oh, because he's on the IR. Sorry. He was in the IR. Okay, sorry, everybody. You've got a goalie. Yeah. They've got Svcicchekov, Kachov,

in Kokhnemi. Also, so I'm watching Carolina. And there's so many goaltender questions, too. I think that's one of the other themes that kind of emerged from this all 32, right? So many teams, you know, whether it's, whether it's Pittsburgh, whether it's New Jersey, whether it's L.A.,

these are like brand name relevant teams that have huge, huge, you know, capitalized, underlined, bolded, italicized question marks in net. And I think that's reflected in the story, too. And again, like we all the all the beats go into you know greater greater detail um sorry there just hit myself with the face with this microphone please leave that in there sorry sean please continue i try i try

to keep it going i just couldn't i couldn't do it i didn't lose it too so we're good the goalie market's going to be really interesting because there are teams with questions when it comes to who they might sign or if they're going to keep their pending unrestricted free agent goalies but I think some of the best options on the market are going to be the ones that could be available by a trade, right? The trade board is so much better in general than the UFA list. The top trade candidates on the athletics off-season trade board right now. Pierre Luke Dubois, Connor Hellebuck, Mark Schifley,

Alex De Brinkett, Carter Hart, Travis Kineckney, John Gibson, Eric Carlson, Brett Pesci. in William Nealander. That is the top 10 right now. Dom gas. So yeah, let's get into it. That's just the top 10. There's still other guys in there.

Anthony Duclair's listed on here. Connor Garland, Michael Backlin, as we kind of talked about earlier in the show while digging into everything that's happening in Calgary. There's people on the watch list too. They put Matthews on the watch list? I feel like that's just kind of cruel to Dom specifically. It's a personal affront.

A personal slight. Like, it's going to get interesting. They should probably put the whole core form. Yeah, they're just like, let's just put everybody in here. Two names on the watching, two names on the watching list, Swam and Allmark, Haley. Yeah. Oh, yes.

This is my passion project. Is the Bruins cap situation and why they should trade Lena Sallmark? Respectfully. Respectfully. Of course. I don't need to talk about this again. I talked about this on the radio multiple times and on this show multiple times. They're on the watch list.

The trade list is interesting. I feel like the draft could be a gong show of big trades or just the space between the draft and free agency. Dom, did anyone stand out to you from that top 10? I would be really... I'm going to ignore that completely. Yeah. I didn't see that. Went straight from line to Blake Wheeler.

It's just a bit of a drop off, by the way, from Neeland. Brett Pesci, Blake Wheeler, Kyler Yamamoto. And then Nick Schmaltz. Nick Schmaltz is really good. And he's there sitting there at 13. That's actually 12 by your counting. Yes, that is correct. Nick Schmaltz sitting at number 12.

It's like a hotel that skips floor 13, except Domless, skips number. genuine, the genuine gasp that came out of this boy's mouth. I don't think he was expecting that. It's, it's definitely possible. My boy, Willie, no. He's just got, he's, he's got such good vibes. He shows up with playoffs. I don't know.

He is not the member of the core four that I would pencil in to say, like, he needs to go, but he's probably the easiest to get a good package for, don't you think? Is, is, is he? Is that not, or it's the easy. one to try to win. They probably lose every core for a trade. Of course.

Yeah, you're not winning a deal, especially if it's like Marner or Matthews, but I feel like, I don't know. There's something about the Nielander. What? This isn't the leaf report. We spent 30 minutes on the Calgary Flames. And you were like, oh, yeah, Calgary time. Let's go.

Totally. Let's go. Sean hates that leaves. favorite things writing. Just kidding. Just kidding. Go ahead. The NHL's a 31 team league in Sean's mind. Uh-huh.

He, they probably wouldn't win a Nealander deal, but, and he's not, but he's also, the point I was trying to make is he's not the one that I would say should go. Like, he's not top of the list. Like,

if you're a core for needs to be broken up person, like Neelander should be your top guy that you want to get rid of. Because as you said, like he shows up in the playoffs. he, I think he's frustrating to a lot of people, but not for me. Not me, though. Not me, though. What makes him the highest one on the list, probably, though, is the fact that he's a year

away from UFA status. And he is represented by Lewis Gross, who also represents Johnny Godrow, who is familiar with Bradtree Living. Like, I just, this is from the trade list as well. that LeBron and Russo and DeHatchik put together. It says, Tree Living isn't going to allow a song and dance to play out all season with Neelander,

who we now have number 10 on the trade board. It's extension or else. Triging. Brother. Anyways, that's not happening. William Nealander, leave the life. Never mind. Number six.

Travis Kineckney. I was seriously, I wanted to ask you specifically about Travis Kineckney. Let on speak. I wanted to ask him about Travis Kineckney. Well, he's talking about him. Great, great player, right? Like, I feel like offensively, he really blossomed last year, and I think he can be a very significant top six ad to a team that knows what it's doing.

Like, the fact he was doing that on the Flyers last year, very impressive. Put him on a real team, and I think he can be a guy that we might include in the top 100 players at year's end. Send him to Carolina. Would he be a fit on the Canes? He sounds so up the Canes Alley, it's insane. Like that feels like a perfect fit for it. That would be like, oh, Carolina did a thing.

They got Connectney. Cool. That's predictable. Got to dig up, dig up and see if, see if Tolski wrote anything about Connectney. How does Tulsky sleep that night? What did Eric write a blog about Travis Connectney in 20 and 20? 13 or whatever.

Interesting. Interesting. Speaking of the flyers, did you guys see the photos of them wearing their new jerseys when they released, when they released like the slightly altered shade of orange jerseys a couple days ago? Except for the third jersey, which is the same old shade of orange. But the photos that they're talking in these guys, they look like they look like there's someone like just out of frame, like pointing a gun at them.

These guys look so miserable. Like, like, just like completely stone face. Like, it's like standing on the ice. Like, oh, my God. It made it. Jersey reveals are always really funny, especially when the changes are like incremental and pointless. And they're like, we use a slightly different pantone shade for, for the orange.

But when you factor in that these guys look like, you know, they're there under, under duress. It added, it added another wonderful layer to the whole thing. They saw the back of the jersey and saw that there was still a stupid nameplate on the back. And they're like, oh, not, not this again. I've been crying about this for like 15 years. Why? Why is there a black nameplate with white writing? It's cool for 15 minutes.

No, it's like, okay. You guys can move on. I've had enough of the nameplate. Also, this just came in while we were recording from the NHL Board of Governors. Teams will not wear specialty jerseys and warm-ups next season. What a solution, folks. Who could have seen that coming? The power of Ivan Proverov.

It's Pride Month. Jesus Christ. This is not happy pride. This league is so unsurious. Could it just wait until July for that. It's like not inducting Carolyn Ulet and Julie Chew into the Hall of Fame in the same class. It's Pride Month and they're married with beautiful young children. This sucks.

Is it anything else come out? Was it like a, did they have a board meeting or something? I thought they were doing that next week. Yes. Almost today. Are military jerseys included in that? It feels like, it feels like, oh, all these specially jerseys are canceled. Not the military, though.

Except the cop jerseys. We're allowed to wear those still. I'm assuming this means that like no hockey fights cancer, no indigenous jerseys, no pride, no military, like, everything is done. That sucks. Yeah. Basically to cater who people, cater to people who can't handle a rainbow freaking jersey.

That's the coolest rainbow jerseys. They always went so hard. They looked so good. They made a community feel included until this year when certain players started saying, oh, hockey is not for everyone. And after all, in the HL's confirming that voice. Also, just great design, too. Like, the Canucks indigenous jerse were, like, the best hockey jerseys I've ever, I've ever seen.

Like, they could make so much money off of this. Stupid. And they just, even when they were. And a lot of that goes to, like, special causes, too. Yeah. Oh, good, goodbye to that. That shit is so lame, man. Anyways, Adam Henrique is 30th on the,

on the tradeboard. He's pretty solid. I feel like he could be a decent pickup for a team who needs some secondary scoring. It's a pretty good defensive player. Got screwed over by the Ducks mess last season. I have an update. So this is the quote from Batman.

I've suggested it would be appropriate for clubs not to change their jerseys and warm up because it's become a distraction. This way we're keeping the focus on the game and the cause. So theme nights, like hockey fights cancer and Pride Night will stay. Jerseys will still be sold,

but teams will not wear them during warm-ups. We'll still take your money. What's the point if the players aren't wearing them? Shit, it sucks. So that's the news of the day. It's just depressing. I came out from 5pm? Yeah, like 4.50.

Thursday news dump. Okay, so that was. was just a bit of news that came out from the board of governors. Before we end the show, we'll pull it back to the trade list that we were talking about, Don, before we end the show. Is there somebody from the trade list that interests you that we did not touch on? Yeah, just going back to the Flyers, Scott Lawton, absolutely fine player. As mid as it gets, apparently worth more than a first, because he already got offers for,

I think, 25th or all, 29th overall. something along those lines and danny beer said no we like this player and should you like scotland that much when you're the flyers and you're supposed to be rebuilding i he's he's 29 he's 29 oh my god i thought he was like 25 no way wild to me oh my god um is that is that a typo i'm just looking to trade for i i remember he was a long time ago oh my god um scott law he is a player. He is worth his contract. He's not overpaid.

He's not underpaid. Yeah. He's completely middle of the road. And we're getting a lot of... Is he like the new, is he the new standard for the completely adequate, adequate NHL player? He's like perfectly paid too. That's the other thing. Which probably makes him valuable to a team.

It's like, oh, hey, we have $3 million to give this guy who deserves $3 million. because a lot of the guys on this trade board are making, like he might be in the top 20, he is the single most affordable player. Everyone else, except for Kailen Addison, who's making $910,000 for a wild. I'm sure,

I'm sure Rousseau's talked at length about Kailin Addison and why he's included on this list, but that's a wild one to me. I think it just can't play D. defense. Is that it? Yeah.

If you're on Minnesota Wilds. If you're on Minnesota Wilde and you can't play defense, what are you doing? He's still really young. Yeah, that is true. Is Kevin Hayes really going to get traded at this price tag? That's one of the worst contracts in the league. And there he is that number 14. Two more years at 7.1.4 million.

Breyer's doing his job again. He was up there yesterday. He'd be like, oh, we like Kevin Hayes a lot. We're fine. We're fine with him on the roster. or if we keep them. Meanwhile, he's like, trying to Jedi mind trick people and taking him at that number for two more years. Well, he's already shown that he could be creative and pulling off these kind of deals. I feel like we're going to see more three-team trades. Like, teams have had a couple of years now under

this flat cap environment so they know how to get things done and be creative without a lot of space. Whereas a couple of years ago, it was dead and it was boring. I feel like GMs have gotten a bit more creative and learned how to operate in this space because they know it's not going away this summer anymore. All right. That was a free agent primer. I feel better. I feel like I feel like I got smarter over the course of the last hour.

That's good. You're the smartest guy I know. Other than yourself, Dom. Second, second smartest guy in the room. Oh, I just hit my mouth on the mic. Again. Again. Dear listeners, we've added out, I'm sure edited out like an extended sequence where Haley chipped her tooth on the microphone.

I didn't chip my tooth, but my mouth is bleeding. So we're going to end the show here. It's been over an hour. Who wants to go to the hospital? I need to seek medical attention. And hopefully no dental work. I don't know what happened. I threw the microphone into my face.

But thanks, Tom, for doing a free agent primer with us. It was worth it to see you go. face first to a microphone twice in one hour. Still time left. That's how I know you were paying attention. She's got to do some plugs and some reads here. Let's see if she does it again. Yeah, let's see if I can make it through the outro.

Just a reminder, friends and listeners, if you're not an athletic subscriber, you can join us at theathletic.com slash hockey show to get an annual subscription for $1 month for 12 months. And I just want to say that this is Danielle's fault because she keeps telling me to get closer to the mic. and now I'm getting too close to the mic and I'm hurting myself.

So Danielle, you will be getting my medical bill. Thanks everyone for listening. I live in Canada. There's no medical bill. Brag about it, wouldn't you? Thanks, everybody.