The Athletic Hockey Show - Florida Panthers, Seattle Kraken strike first in 2nd round, Golden Knights-Oilers series might come down to goaltending, and the temperature is hot in Winnipeg after early playoff exit for Jets

Episode Date: May 3, 2023

This week on the roundtable, Rob, Jesse and Russo take a look back on Tuesday night's second round, game one road wins for Florida and Seattle over Toronto and Dallas, before looking ahead to the upstart New Jersey Devils facing off against the Carolina Hurricanes, and the Edmonton Oilers taking on the Golden Knights in Vegas. The guys welcome Murat Ates from Winnipeg, to discuss the fiery honest comments from Rick Bowness, post the Jets series loss to Vegas, and what looks to be a very active off-season for Kevin Cheveldayoff. The roundtable talks Darryl Sutter's demise in Calgary, Joel Quenneville's imminent return to the NHL, Snoop Dogg's quest to purchase the Ottawa Senators and Pizzo, Jesse and Russo offer their opinion on Marc-Andre Fleury and Zach Parise willing to return for another season, but only in Minnesota and Long Island, and if Patrice Bergeron will retire this summer?Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowGet a 1-year subscription to The Athletic for just $1 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshowRight now, Nuts.com is offering new customers a free gift with purchase and free shipping on orders of $29 or more at http://Nuts.com/hockey23Upgrade your closet with Rhone and use code NHLSHOW to save 20% at https://www.rhone.com/nhlshowGo to http://dave.com/nhlshow to sign up for an ExtraCash account and get up to $500 instantly! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. What's going on, everybody? Welcome to the Athletic Hockey Show, the Wednesday Roundtable Edition. I am Rob Paisal from CBC Sports, and the roundtable is back. Rousseau is not in the air for this show. Jesse and I thought that this whole, oh, he's 30,000 feet in the air, it wasn't a good excuse. Like you've got to find some sort of hookup on an airplane and just do the show with us because it's the playoffs. What do you think, Russo?

I think that it would have been pretty annoying on that early flight for all those people around me to hear me talking about that series. But the Stars fans that were coming up here for the game probably would have enjoyed it because the Wilde did not play well in game five. And it pretty much lost on the series. And Jesse Granger joins us, as always in Vegas. I think it would have him on a plane and have people, Sir, can you please listen to Rob? He said rapid fire just to have the person next to him say something like that. All right, Jesse.

I'm doing well. I'm in a good mood this morning. I get to watch Connor McDavid play live playoff hockey tonight in Vegas, best city in the world. I have no complaints. You know any thousands of dollars people pay to do what you're about to do for the next four to seven games? You know how many people paid thousands of dollars to fly out here only to have their flight back to Edmonton booked before the second game because the NHL moved it on them? Yes. The game was Friday. Everyone was flying out Saturday morning the day after. And then the NHL decided to move the game to Saturday. So now all the Edmonton people that are paying thousands of dollars to fly out to Vegas are now having to book another day in their hotel.

And they're going to have to change their flights. It's a mess. I find it tough to feel bad for people spending another night in Vegas. But that's just me. Enjoy the time. I feel like I say this every time when the playoffs start, but I'm going to say it again. A whole shitload of things have happened since we last spoke. I mean, think about it.

Seven days ago, we do a show. And since then, a 65 win Bruins team sent home by the Panthers. Defending champions sent home by Seattle. The Leafs playing second round hockey. We haven't seen that in almost two decades. And oh, yeah, round two started last night. So let's get right to it, guys. We got a lot of stuff to get through.

Plus, we got a whole bunch of news to talk about because teams were sent home. including the Winnipeg Jets, and things got a little ugly in their postgame press conference and exit interviews. So we'll speak to Maratatash about that, who covers the team for the athletic. But let's start with the East. Leifes and Panthers, fresh off knocking off those 65 win Bruins. Panthers come out with a 4-2 win in game number one. Sergei Bobrovsky, 34 saves. Matthew Kachuk, three assists.

Their first game one win, guys, believe it or not, in 26 years. Carter Varhaghi gets the OT winner against Boston in game seven and the game winning goal last night. First impressions of the Leafs and the Panthers. We'll start with you, Russo. Well, first of all, believe it or not, I was there. I covered that game in 1997. And the Panthers, they won three nothing. I'll never forget it.

Roberts Fela assisted on three goals by Johann Garpenloff, Rob Niedemar, and I think Kirk Muller. And then the Panthers list four straight games to Wayne. Gretzky, Coney Campbell, Esa Tickenin, all those great rangers of yesterday year. So I, so yeah. Hell of a memory there. That's how ancient I am. Well, I remember the sidebar I wrote was Roberts Vela that night. And then it all went downhill from the Panthers that night, the rest of the series.

Yeah, I mean, look, this is one resilient Florida team. I don't know why we are like, you know, you think you have this emotional win over Boston just two days earlier. and then you're just going to walk into game one and probably have that letdown. And it just didn't happen. And then they, you know, again, from a resiliency standpoint, which I do think sometimes is an overused word in sports, but they're up to nothing. They blow the lead.

And then they just respond incredibly. And this is a really, really good team. And I think that we said this a couple weeks ago when I was on is that the one thing about Florida, if they got in, is that, look, we got to remember, they won the President's trophy last year. Like this is a good team. And now you throw Bobrovsky back in there. He's super rested.

And he is starting to play really well. Obviously, even in the Boston game, he recovered from some bad goals. You know, they serves up the pizza to pasta on the one goal. And yet they just continue to recover and they just go and go and go. And this is a great contrast of speed and skill versus a hard forechecking team. I really am looking forward to this series. But as I said, in 1997, they won game one and then lost four straight games. Series is far from over.

Yeah, I'm going to echo a lot of what Michael said in terms of like, obviously it was a huge upset over Boston just because of Boston's season. But at the same time, this is not a typical eight seed. Like it's surprising people. Like when I watched them against Boston, it felt like two pretty equally talented teams. Like you look at Kachuk, who's been. I mean, if McDavid wasn't an alien, he's the heart winner, probably. And you've got Sergey Bobrovsky, who when he's at his best, he is an elite goalie. Montour has been an absolute monster in these playoffs, like just so good all over the ice.

It feels like he's everywhere. This team is really, really talented. Like, I think this matchup between Florida and Toronto, it's not a can the eight seed pull another upset. Like these are two evenly matched teams. And it's going to be, like Michael said, it's very different. contrasting styles. It's going to be which team can implement their style the best. Babrovsky, so impressive.

That one penalty kill where he made a couple blocker saves that were like reactionary, but oh my God, he's so good. And the one thing I've noticed about the Panthers is like Matthew Kachuk, I feel like has changed the identity of that team. Like he is that greasy guy in front of the net, getting all the rebounds, getting all the tips, the deflections, all that. You see the rest of the team doing that now. Like the Panthers are the net front team.

Whereas in years past, like when they won the president's trophy, I saw them more of like more of like what Toronto is, like a finesse, fast team. It's interesting how like you kind of follow the leader. And I think Kachuk has really like changed the makeup of that team. Let me echo something you said. Obviously when you beat a team that had the greatest regular season in history, it's an upset. But if you remember that was the same night that Seattle beat Colorado,

I think that was a much bigger upset, in my opinion. We keep treating this Florida team like they are an eight seed. They are, by numbers, an eight seed, but they're not, like Jesse just said. To me, it's incredible. And what we've seen from Kachuk, as you said, if McDavid is not an alien, he might be a finalist for the Hart Trophy. What he's done has been incredible. And this team certainly doesn't look at a place at all against either of these two.

teams. Yep. Rob, to your point on the Seattle, which I know that we'll talk about in a bit, being a bigger upset, I totally agree with you. But the one thing is, like, if I think all of us this year, you know, we all almost become accustomed to President's trophy teams losing and not winning a Stanley Cup. But I think if we all had to pick this year being the different year that the President trophy team would roll to a Stanley Cup championship, this would be the year.

So for them to go in there, it's still a hell of a win. Brandon Montor, who Jesse brought up, acquired for a third round. pick for the Buffalo Sabres. I mean, man. Like, what a trade. He's been, he's been huge for them throughout these playoffs. And just quickly back to Mabrovsky. I know we talk about 34 saves, which is an impressive number, but those two penalty kills in the first period. And then when the Leafs were pressing in the third, timely saves where he didn't look out of, he didn't look shaky at all. He wasn't fighting anything. He just made huge saves to keep his team in it. I kind of laughed afterwards. Paul Maurice said, quote, we were good, but we weren't great. I'm like, man, oh man, your expectations

are pretty high there, Mr. Maurice, but Leifes are now one and three at home in the playoffs. You mentioned Seattle that we were going to talk about in next Russo. Let's go right there because you talk about a crazy hockey game. You had a 38-year-old coming back from concussion, scoring four goals in this one. You had a road team scoring three goals in 52 seconds. They had a multi-goal lead erased. And in the end, Yanni Gord scores an overtime to give Seattle another win. They have a 1-0 series lead over the stars, 5 for the final. Exactly how we all predicted that was going to happen, right, Jesse?

Right, exactly. Mike Kelly tweeted out last night, The Cracken have scored as many goals on Jake Ottinger in 15 minutes as the Wild did in their last three games of the series combined. I was tweeting before the game about Ottinger's, like he had the highest, save percentage of any goalie in the playoffs in history and the Cracken just ruined it in 50 seconds. That game was insane. We're so spoiled this year. I feel like that's one out of every two playoff games I've watched this season, has been

a game like that where it's like just back and forth scoring, high drama. This Crack and team is so much fun to watch. I was writing before the series that I think Dallas is much better equipped to deal with this Cracken team than the Avalanche were just because the aves have those high-end stars, but they didn't have the depth down the lineup. And Seattle just ate them alive, like lines three and four, whereas Dallas is much deeper. And I thought Dallas would be able to handle it better. But you watch that game and that four check is just smothering.

Like it just feels like you can't breathe. They're always on you. Dallas, you look at the goals they scored. It was almost all off of turnovers by the stars trying to get out of their own end. The Seattle team, they remind me so much. I've said it a million times of that year one. on Golden Knights team where they just send wave after wave after wave of pressure at you and wait for you to make a mistake.

Yeah. You know, the wild, since we're now taking shots at them, had this marketing campaign called Grit First because they like to hit hard. That's a grit first team, the Seattle Cracken. They, that grit to me is being, as Jesse said, suffocating. When the avalanche were in the offensive zone, especially in game five, They could achieve absolutely nothing. Seattle was first on every puck.

They were all over them. They could not get to anything that they wanted to do offensively. Couldn't achieve anything. And while Dallas was able to score last night because of the unbelievable game by Joe Pavelski in his first game back from a concussion in game one in the Wild series, it still to me is the same Seattle team, only they show that they could score some goals too. And they might have to score some goals.

Because look, I mean, I think that we would all agree that Seattle, the one area where maybe there's an issue, a little bit of a concern is goal-tending. Although, hey, look, Grubauer obviously, especially in Denver, was just spectacular in that Colorado series. But I just love the Seattle team. They're super deep. They have a great blue line. And we talked to, you know, when we had Ron Francis on two or three weeks ago, we talked

about that, Rob, about how this team, they've just added depth and depth and depth. they might not have the superstar, but they could, they could beat you in so many different ways. And also, again, they're blue line, big, strong, mobile. They're going to give Dallas a problem. Dallas is shown the ability to recover. They were down to one in the Wild Series. They and reeled off three state wins. So this series, like I said, with the Toronto series is far from over.

But Dave Haxall and his crew have just been really, really, to me, the most impressive team in the playoffs. They're a team. Remember all year long, we were like waiting for them to fall apart. Like if there was one team that was going to fall down in the West, it was going to be them. And it just never happened. And yet we still continue in the postseason to almost doubt them.

And they just continue to prove us wrong. Five different scores again last night. They had 15 different players score in the first round. This is, this is their MO. This is what they're going to do. Like you guys said, smothering on the offensive end and,

or in the defensive end. and they just get it completely up and down the lineup. No superstars in this team, but they do it. Quickly back to Pavalski, four goals in his return from concussion protocol. I know Russo loves my little stats that I dig up for this show. Oldest player to score four in a playoff game ever, breaking the record by some guy named Rocket Richard back in 1957.

And he is the four, Seattle's the fourth team ever to have a four goal scorer and lose. in a playoff game. Ray Ferraro scored four and they lost Dennis Savard and Lany McDonald all scoring four and losing causes, which which just sucks. How are you excited about a four-go playoff game when your team loses? Yeah. I mean, that's the thing. There were been 44 goal games in the playoffs and I was wondering how many of those were in losing efforts. And those is, as Jesse could attest, those are the hardest stories to write where you want to rave about the player, but you also have to remind people, oh, by the way, they didn't get a point.

point for this game. You know, they lost the game. But just, you know, not only do I love your stats, I think everybody knows how much I absolutely love Pavalski. He's been one of my favorite players to watch forever. He's one of an incredible guy to deal with. Unbelievable leader defies, you know, the imagination of hockey because he really does, has never skated well and things like that, but he just has a knack for going to the right places, scoring the big goals and gutsier than ever. And he is, I mean, if Pavelsky didn't get hurt in the Wild series, who knows how badly that loss could have been for the wild because he is just a gamer every single year. And last night was unbelievably impressive to score immediately in the game, then score all four goals for your team. All right. His hand eye is so unreal. Sorry. Oh, that's no, that tip was incredible. Yeah. And that's what he does, right? Like, like he scored two tips. I remember the whole time Pete DeBore was in Vegas. I'm like, man, he runs his offense for a Joe Pavelsky. He's just waiting for tips and like Vegas couldn't get it.

And then Dallas hires Pete and I'm like, well, that's a perfect fit. And it is because his offense drives shots from the point. You've got a guy down there tipping pucks and nobody in the league does it better than Joe Pavelski. Like his hand-eye coordination is ridiculous. All right, a couple game ones in the books. A couple more tonight. So let's start with Carolina and the New Jersey Devils who split their four games this year, guys. And they battle for top spot in the metro right down to the wire Carolina fish,

one point up on New Jersey. If you told me at the end of this series that every game would end like two one and like four of them would go into overtime, I would say sounds about right. That's what it feels like this series is going to be. Russo will start with you to talk about everything except Schmidt because that's something Jesse's probably going to want to talk about. Oh my gosh. Schmidt.

What a story. So the last time I was on this podcast, which was, I think, two weeks ago, it was coming after their first couple, I think five two losses, or maybe it was going into the playoffs. I can't remember. And, you know, the one thing I said is that what I expected from New Jersey, this playoff would be kind of a losing effort where they, but it would be one of those things where because they hadn't been there before, they wouldn't know how to handle the adversity, but it would be a great learning lesson for the future. And then what do they do? And they, they reel off four wins in the next five games, including games in Madison Square Garden.

this team's got balls of steel. They're fast, they're skilled, and I think that is going to give Carolina fits, especially with the losses that they've had, you know, with obviously Svetchnikoff and Patcheretti. They are, I am so happy for Lindy Ruff and Tom Fitzgerald, two great former Florida Panthers, players and coaches. And I just, I think this is going to be a great series,

but the devil's absolutely impressed me. I did not give them a chance. after they lost game six. I thought the Rangers wouldn't go into Prudential Center and Wollom, and clearly I was extremely wrong. I'm just so down on Carolina with all the injuries they've had, and they just didn't look the same. Like Mike mentioned, obviously, Svetschnikov and Patcherati, who barely played for him this year, but Tara Vinen goes down.

They just struggled to generate offense. And yes, the Islanders can play a good neutral zone and kind of slow things down, and the devils aren't going to do that. I think the devils are going to try to push the pace. So maybe Carolina will look a little more dynamic. Maybe like Ajo's been carrying the mail for him. Like he's been great. But maybe NACIS and Brent Burns on the back end,

maybe they can get going against a team that's a little more open. But they just, watching those games in the first round, they just did not look as dynamic as they did all season. And you look at the devils and they are dynamic. Like this team has so much talent offensively. I maybe I'm wrong. I feel like the devils are the better team going into this series. I think defensively too.

Like Nico Hesha really did a good job at keeping Zaventajad in check. Does he do that with Aho? I mean, that's obviously one of the matchups you'll be looking at. But I can't believe Jesse didn't talk about Schmidt, but let's talk about Akir Schmid because five games since taking over for Vanajek. Four wins, two shutouts, 9.51 save percentage, nearly six goals saved above expected. not too bad for a 22-year-old fifth rounder with 24 games under his belt. But, I mean, Lindy Ruff went to him quick. He'd look good this year, but it seemed like it was like, okay, he was ready to go.

That's what I was going to say is Lindy Ruff deserves a ton of credit because Schmid was their best goalie in the regular season. Like, if you look at the numbers and if you watch the games, he was the best goalie. But as every coach in the world does, it's like, well, this is playoff hockey. It's different. We've got to go with the veteran. I didn't think he'd give Schmidt a chance. Like I thought by the time he gave, like by the time Vanichick had proven he wasn't the better goalie, it would be over. The season would be over.

He, Ruff made the switch quick. He went to the kid that's inexperienced, but has shown he can be, he can play good hockey. And he's rewarded him by playing absolutely spectacularly. Schmidt has been awesome. Ruff has done a great job coaching this season. and I thought that that move was a gutsy move that not a lot of coaches would make, and it's paid off. Rob, how scary was that Trubah hit on Tima Meyer?

That was Shades of Scott Stevens back in the day. Russo, read your lineup, buddy. That's later on in the show. Don't worry. We're going to get to it. I haven't read a lineup in a year. Just to let people know, we kind of, you know, we break down what we're going to talk about. That's later on.

And Russo will always come on like, hey, what are we talking about tonight, boys? And that just means he knows his hockey. So, yeah, game one in the East and game one in the West. And Jesse, you know we're going to start here with Vegas and the Oilers. I loved in your preview with a lot of inexperience and net, the goalies could play a bigger role that many people were anticipating in this series. Shocking line from our Jesse Granger. What do you look? There's a lot of matchups who can really break down in this series, but obviously you're looking between the pipes.

When I say the goalies can play a bigger role, I mean, if one of these guys can't hold it together, that's, they're going to cost their team to series. And you look at Skinner and you look at Brasua and it's two goalies that this is really their first playoff experience. Obviously, Skinner's a rookie and Brasaw is 30 years old, but he's never been a starter on a period, let alone in the playoffs. So Brasua was better in the first round. He also has a much better defense in front of him. The Golden Knights play a controlled game that kind of makes things easier on their goalie, whereas Skinner plays behind a roller hockey team that just is trying to outscore opponents, 10 to 9 every night. But I feel like whichever of these two can kind of play the strongest,

like I think that's a huge advantage because I think both teams see the other team's weakness in that. And I just have a feeling one of these guys is not going to be the weakness everyone expects it to be, whether it's Skinner who steps up and has a big series or it's Brasua, who is apparently on a reunion tour. I mean, he beat his former team Winnipeg in round one. And that was obviously a huge story with them all chanting he's a backup. Now he's going to Edmonton where not only was he a backup in Edmonton early in his career, but he also played his junior hockey with the Edmonton Oil King. So he is very familiar with Edmonton. So a reunion tour for Lorenboisw. That's going to be, I think it's a very, there are so many big matchups like Ikel

versus McDavid, Mark Stone versus Drysidal, the Golden Knights, one of the best defenses in the league versus the most potent offense I've ever seen. There's a lot of matchups. I think. think the goalies are an under the radar one that's going to play a big role in this one. Yeah, this is a star-studded playoff series. I mean, it is, I mean, Edmonton, Vegas, it just, I mean, it sings. It's, you know, I think it's going to be outstanding. Bresor is just such a great story. I mean, you know, this guy started in Henderson this year because of the injury they had in the summertime. I don't think that he, with the way that Thompson started that they ever thought that he would be in their plans. I guarantee you that that, that,

that Kelly McCrimmon was thinking at some point we'll use him as a trade chip or something like that. And here he comes in and he's just been unbelievable. And then you have Mark Stone returning and you have the playoff pedigree of the William Carlson's and obviously the Theoders and the Petro Angelo's and the Jonathan Marshall's and the Riley Smith's versus this star-studded team that is so much deeper than we've ever given them credit for. You know, all year long we've talked about, you know, them being almost like a four-trick pony with Kane and Armin. RNH and Drys Idol and McDavid, but look at some of the guys that really stepped up last round against the Los Angeles Kings. They were getting depth scoring. Their blue line is much, much improved, and they obviously got the goaltending. But I'm just looking forward to the series. I just think it's like, you know, in a Western conference now that I think that we all think is

super wide open because of the avalanche bowing out. This is going to be, to me, you know, as good as it gets. Yeah, and you know, you mentioned that the goaltending with Vegas, like, Braswell wasn't in their plans. Neither was Skinner. I mean, this was supposed to be Jack Campbell's net. Totally. And the other, yeah, the other matchups, McDavid versus Eichael, I think is obviously intriguing,

very rare you see, you know, a number one pick and a number two pick from the same year, especially in the conference finals. It's only happened four times with Ovechka and Malkin, Tavarice and Headman, Pierre Turjan, Brendan, Shannon, Mike Badano, and Trevor Linden. And of course, you got dry sidle and stone. But I think especially the dry sidle and stone, that really is going to come down with, are you pro Connor and Leon together or pro spreading them apart? We saw games one, two, and three against L.A.

They were apart, games four, five, and six. They were together with Evander Cain on that line. I'm really curious to see how they're used because it is, it's an embarrassment of riches to have. but that's how this thing is going to shake down, especially with Mark Stone trying to shut down that line. What do you think we're going to see from Jay Woodcroft? Erssel? Yeah, I think that's always the real thing that he has in his bag is he's got multiple

options for them, and we are going to see both. You know, if Stone is being the sulky guy that he always is, I think that we're going to see them separated at times. You know, a lot of it's going to have to do with the, you know, the iterations of the series and where you are in games and things like that. But I think Todd, excuse me, Todd, Todd's Jay's brother, who I knew well from when he was here in Minnesota. But yeah, I think Jay is, you know,

we've seen him do both all season long. But again, where I think that this is just a better series than what I would have envisioned earlier this season is it just feels like the maturity of the bottom six for the oilers has just gotten much, much better than it was. We're earlier this year, I remember talking to you guys about just how that's what I didn't like. when Edmonton, when I saw them a couple times this year live, it just felt like their bottom six was going to get munched alive against everybody else. And it's not that way anymore. It's, they're not just, you know, McDavid and Drysettle, they're, you know, they perform all the time, obviously in the playoffs. But we're, you're not going to be able to just, um, two player your way to, to a Stanley Cup championship. And I think we saw that with Colorado this year. I mean, you know, like, obviously Landisogs hurt and they had all sorts of injuries in their lineup, the Chushkin was out with his issue. But where they really,

took a step back was losing guys like Cadry and a lot of their bottom six guys just not being the same. You know, they're just, and I do think that that's where the Oilers are much, much improved. But to me, the Vegas Golden Knights are as good as there are, you know, from a depth standpoint as well. Yeah, I think what's really helped the Oilers with their depth is obviously those guys on the bottom six are playing better, but the 11 and 7 approach from Woodcroft is interesting. And it's, it creates an interesting dynamic because you've got like, Austin down there on that fourth line. And you've only got two fourth liners. And what it allows them to do is McDavid and Drysidl alternate playing with those two. So their fourth line has Connor McDavid on it.

So yeah, it's pretty good. It's a pretty good fourth line. You can only do that because McDavid and Drysadle can play 25 minutes a game. But that's basically like, I mean, they're literally rolling out. And if they split them up, McDavid on the first and Drysiddle on the second. And then they're alternating on the fourth, that means you only have one shift every four shifts that doesn't have Drysidal or McDavid on the ice. It's basically, they're like, you know what? Let's make our depth better by just playing McDavid and Drysidal more. How about that? Not to completely take away from the other players, but that is a huge reason that the depth has been better is they found a way to play those guys more. It's going to be interesting. Like I wrote, I wrote about the matchups yesterday

and I looked at how the Golden Knights have played Petrangelo's pair and Theodore's pair against. the two and who they've had more success against. I personally think after watching that first series and the way they turned things around after putting them together, I think Woodcroft's going to start the series with McDavid and Drys Idol on the same line. Just because it's been working so well, they won the last three games against LA doing that. It's going to be up to the Golden Knights to force them to go away from that.

And Rob mentioned it. If Mark Stone can be the player that he is, that can shut down pretty much anyone. I mean, you look back, Michael mentioned. in Colorado. In 2021, when the Golden Knights beat the avalanche, that was a pretty big upset when they beat them in the second round. It was Mark Stone and Chandler Stevenson shutting down Nathan McKinnett and not letting him get his speed through the neutral zone, making things hard on him, not letting him get confidence with the puck. And suddenly he just didn't look like the same player. It's much harder to do that against McDavid and Drys Idol. But if he can, if he can slow them down,

because if they have those two on that top line together and the Golden Knights can neutralize that line and just have a draw that that line, the Golden Knights are going to win the games because they have three really good lines that can score. I mean, you look at Stone and Stevenson, their other line is Jack Eichel and Jonathan Marsha. So, then they've got William Carlson and Riley Smith on the third. So their depth is going to be better if they can neutralize that one line. I think that's the way you force the Oilers to split them up and try to play a more balanced lineup. Much, much easier said than done than just saying, okay, we're just going to shut that line down and force you to change it.

Nobody has done that yet. They've scored a bajillion points this year. So it's going to be fun to watch. Come with more accurate stats, Jesse, bajillion. Just love what people use that number. They almost got there. Okay, couple minutes left in this segment.

Russo, I'm looking at you when I say that. A couple pieces of news we got to get out there. Daryl Sutter out as head coach in Calgary really stemmed, according to interim GM, Don Maloney, from the exit interview. He said he spoke to 25 players. to staff members, to agents. And quote, 10 years and 20 years ago, they wouldn't say boo.

Now players want a voice. They have a voice and you have to listen to that voice. They had some real observations in how we should move forward. And Darrell Sutter gets the axe. Surprised, Jesse? No. Just based on everything we hear about Sutter in his old school ways. I personally, just on more like, like not specifically in this situation,

but just a philosophical approach. I like the players having more of a voice. I think that you look at the NBA, the players have much more control over what teams do and how things work. I think the NHL will be better off with the players having a bigger voice in terms of just everything, including the coaching moves.

I don't think you should let the players flat out decide, but the thought of, well, the players usually keep their mouths shut and let us decide. I don't like that at all. I think the players should absolutely have voice. So when I hear those quotes, I'm like, all right, we're moving in the right direction. Yeah, I mean, I'm a little surprised just because, you know, he was handed a two-year extension back in, right after training camp last year. And, and, you know, when Tree Living left, it just felt like, all right, that was an owner, that was an owner decision.

And clearly he did was not in support of it. I think we've heard that all year long. But I agree with you. I mean, you know, they have to, I mean, it's. It just, it was, even the old, the Sutter hiring was strange at the time, you know, out of the game for a while. They literally call them on the farm and bring them back. And then you bring all the, you know, you invest, what, 50 million into Weger, you

invest 84 million into Huberto. You know, they're just, you know, these young kind of, you know, different types of young, new generation players and put this old school, I hate to call them dinosaur, but. But that is what, I mean, he's not, he wasn't even just a retread. He was like a triple retread. You know what I mean? It was just like, like the guy was on a farm out of the game. And I just never understood the, the desire to bring him back.

And it had to be an ownership type move. And so for them to give him the two year extension and how just say, oh, you're out. One, impressive by the owner that, that they would listen to Don Maloney, who technically is still has the interim tag to make that decision. But two, to essentially say, well, wait a minute, I'm willing to pay this guy out after just giving him the extension. I mean, I know some owners in this league that if you have any term on your contract, they don't let the GM or anybody fire him.

And that's just the way a lot of owners operate. And this is clearly not that case. So now the flames need a GM and a coach in one name that I've seen bantered around, not only for the Calgary job, but for a possible vacancy that could come in the near future in New York. Joel Quinville. To be clear, he needs clearance to return to the NHL from the league. Of course, this is stemming from his involvement with the Blackhawks sexual abuse scandal back in 2010. Being like I said, Rangers, Flames, and this is just a lot of talk at this point,

second winning his coach in NHL history. Is Joel Quinville going to be back behind the bench as early as next year? Jesse, what do you think? Will he be? I don't know. Should he be? No. I don't think he should. Agreed. But this is hockey.

So I think there's a chance he could be. People want to win. It's going to be interesting to see which owner would put that kind of attention on their team by getting a guy who is as old as Quinville is. And like Michael's just mentioned, and like with Sutter, I feel like very similarly with Quinville, is he the type of. even if you ignore all the other stuff, which you shouldn't. But if you do, is he the coach to win you a Stanley Cup in 2023, 2004? I'm not sure. What do you think, Michael? Yeah, I would agree with you.

Like, to me, Calgary, that if Sutter wasn't the right guy with the players, I don't think Q would be. But the one guy that I could see not giving a crap is Dolan in New York. And so if they get rid of Gallant, which, you know, I think would be a mistake. but if they do, would Dolan go out and try to make that happen? Possibly. What I just don't see is Betman just giving it on this one. I just, this league just, you know, with some of the stuff that's happened in the last

year with Mitch Miller and all, like, it just, why would you do that? There's a thousand people that could coach a team. Why would Betman bring that attention back? You know, he was an absolute mainstay in the beach thing, completely ignored it. made it extremely clear. I mean, it could not have been clearer that he punted it so they could try to win a cup. It absolutely should not be allowed. And I just cannot imagine that Betman's going to relent in this one.

You know, Q should just stay in South Florida and bet horses. And that wound is just too fresh still for me. Yeah. It's just too, not that I'm saying that he should, but it's just too fresh. And you're right. You know, we've seen, we saw the Blackhawks and Quinnville, put winning ahead of something that is just morally right, it can't be done again. This, this, it just can't.

Like, it just, I'm with, I'm with Jesse where it could happen. I don't think it should, but I really hope, as you mentioned, Rousseau, that maybe Gary Bettman is the, the guy who stops it. One final thing before we go to break, don't need too much analysis on this one, but, you know, we've been hearing about Ryan Reynolds looking to purchase the Ottawa senators or being part of a group that's going to purchase the Ottawa senators. Well, another celebrity is thrown his hat into the ring. Snoop.

Snoop Dog joining LA-based producer Nico Sparks to try to buy the auto senators. Now, it's not just a celebrity thing. He's been a huge hockey phase. He's been a mainstay in the hockey world for years. I remember, I can't remember what video. It might have been gin and juice where he's wearing like a Pittsburgh, a Pittsburgh jersey. He's a big hockey fan. I think this, I think this would be great.

So it's like Snoop versus Reynolds. The old school penguins jersey that says Pittsburgh like, diagonal letters. I literally call it the gin and juice jersey. Like I'm not like like like when when someone says what jersey, that's the gin and juice jersey. Um, Snoop is awesome. I never in a million years would have thought that if there was a hockey team that would just be the celebrities would be flocking. I know it's like an alternate universe. Ottawa senators like what in the hell is going on? But, hey, I'll take it. I guess I mean, they're the ones that are up for sale. So like I think if it was the Kings, maybe a few more celebrities would be involved. But.

it's it's very odd that the Ottawa senators are now the hot team for all these celebrities to go after. Like truly why would now every owner not try to sell their team? Like first of all, you're going to make an unbelievable amount of profit on what you, you know, on what you originally paid on your investment. But like it just feels like that we have these like, you know, basically A-list celebrities now wanting to get into this sport, which is great for the sport. I'm rooting for Snoop over Ryan Reynolds. Snoop is funny. I saw him at a, I've seen him a couple times at LA Kings games, but I remember seeing him at the All-Star game back in like the early 2000s out at

Staples Center. And it's probably like the one time I remember stopping in my tracks and just watching somebody for like five minutes. Like I was just so absolutely in awe that Snoop Dog was right in front of me. And I just think it would be, I mean, is there anything better than just envisioning Ian Mendez just interviewing Snoop Dog? I just think that's incredible. Also, he says he wants to build the Snoop user.

hockey league and I really like this. He said he wants kids who quote look like me to understand that hockey is a sport you should get into, which is I think that's awesome. All right, guys, we got through it after the bristle. Muratatash is going to be talking about the Winnipeg Jazz. Can't believe I just did that. Don't go anywhere. Fantastic. All right, fellas, I usually don't start a segment with a quote, but how can I not start it without doing this? Quote, overall thought. I'm so disappointed and disgusted right now. That's my thoughts, which was, of course, Rick Bonas after the 4-1 loss to Vegas that ended the season of the Winnipeg Jets, a game our next guest called Lifeless and Borderline non-confrontational.

And I don't think too many people would disagree. Morad attached to joining us who covers the team for the athletic. Thanks for coming back, sir. Hey, thanks for having me. Happy to be here. You were in that room. I mean, describe the faces. Describe the feeling because I didn't see it live.

I watched it afterwards. And I went, oh, man, that must have just been like a pin dropping in there. Just seeing Rick Bonas. Because even though he's got emotion, he shows it, I don't think too many people expected that. I think when you walk into a press room like that, and it's bigger because it's the playoffs and you know a team just got eliminated. You're on, like all your senses are a little bit heightened to start with. You're ready because you don't. know how he's going to react. Are they going to be sullen? Are they going to be angry?

Rick Bonas walked into that room with a really controlled tension to him before he was asked a single question. He said, all right, this is going to be short and sweet. And you could tell like he was bubbling over a little bit. And his first question was his overall thoughts, just like you said. So for him to go straight to disappointed and disgusted, I mean, he had some things to say. He had some frustration that boiled over. And it was stunning. It was absolutely. stunning because one of the things that he's generally not done, because he's an honest guy, he'll critique the team, but he hasn't really gone to that level of emotional well in front of us as intensely as he did. And I know a lot of the players were struck by that, the idea of

being disgusted. Last thing I'll say, though, is it was a horrible game from the Winnipeg, Jess, and Jesse was there too. I mean, it was a one-sided affair, most one-sided of the series, for sure. I was also in the room and I was stunned. Everyone in the Vegas media, we were on the other half of the seats and we were just look at each other like, what in the hell just happened? My question for Marat is like, I was, because the play, I love the playoffs because you get to see both coaches after every game because they bring them to the podium.

And like, whereas in the regular season, I don't get to see the other coaches presser because they're over on their other side. And bonus was so positive all series long. Like even I, not delusional, but he would come in after they lost and say, well, I thought the chances were even and they just got the bounces. Like he was very positive all series long. And then they lose. And he just was it.

What do you think made that change? Was it just the lack of effort in that last game? Like what? I thought it was a strange transformation from being the positive guy. We're just not getting the bounces all series to my. My team sucks. My read on Rick Bonus is that at his core, at his absolute core, he's a man of emotion. He's a man of passion.

You can see him get worked up on the bench. You know, you heard what he said there. And I said a moment ago, he doesn't go to that well that often. It was the most extreme version, but he goes to an emotional well when he's upset. He's not afraid of that either. And I think that what really gets his goat, I don't know that phrase, but like what really bothers him is when he doesn't see that same kind of emotion around him. And so that Game 5 effort from Winnipeg was really horrible in my mind. It probably would have gone better if not

for that first minute giveaway that leads to a goal against and that Mark Stone transition, give and go and all of that sort of stuff. It was a catastrophic beginning. But then when Bonus watched and the team didn't push back to use his words, and he saw like that lack of, that lack of just being unwilling to accept a situation, I think it drove him to a point where he's fired up. He doesn't seem to think that his guys are fired up. And that does not compute, not acceptable sort of situation for him that sort of set him off that day. Yeah, I mean, he was snorting when he walked into that. I mean, he looked like a bull at a bull. I mean, it was, he sat at that podium, and you could see the steam coming across him. And I was, to Jesse's point, I was stunned, too,

because, you know, one, the number of injuries that Winnipeg was playing through, but two, the fact that, you know, the no pushback that he talked about a month before the season ended, the team responded unbelievably to make the playoffs. And so I just figured that he'd sort of give him a pass there. Obviously, he didn't. Then to fast forward, you guys have the end of the year exit interviews. And Blake Wheeler is asked, and he answered honestly, which I'm totally for. But where does this go, Marat? Like, I read your story the other day where you talked about the core of this team and what you expect to happen. now, right? Wheeler's got an extra year, another year on his deal. Sheiflead's got another year on his deal. I think Ellers has a couple years on his deal. Du Bois is a restricted free agent with Arbrites, if I'm not mistaken. Helibuck's got another year on his deal. Where does this go? Because it is interesting that bonuses contract expires with those guys as well. Yeah, at 2024 is a ticking clock for the Winnipeg Jets. And it has been for a while. There was some thought even last year, because last year, Winnipeg ended its season tumultuously under former coach Dave Lowry, that maybe that would be the season that a lot of these core players move on.

And Blake Wheeler and the Jets, they explored a trade or a route out of Winnipeg last summer. That didn't really come to fruition. Bonus was hired. And there was this idea that, okay, a veteran coach who could rally these guys and get a playoff run out of them because the quality on paper was, you know, higher than what they showed last year, they don't really have, they're running out of run. way, I guess is how I would put it, in that you can't let these guys, a lot of them reach 2024 and lose them for nothing. If Pierre-Luc Dubois files for arbitration this summer,

it guarantees a one-year deal and that would expire next summer. You're not going to lose that player for nothing. If you can't extend Shifley or Halibuck to numbers that make sense for the team, because there's some risk in those contracts too, then you're not going to walk them to free agency and lose them for nothing. I don't think Blake Wheeler has tremendous trade value at this stage, but I think that based on the tone that he took and the amount of reflection he was willing to go into, there's a sense that maybe that this relationship's coming to an end between him and Winnipeg as well. And that's, you know, your former captain, who's your highest paid player, two of your two top centers and your Vezna winning netminder, all with a little bit

of uncertainty here. I think there's some moving parts. I think that Winnipeg wants to be able to win, if it could extend all these guys to short-term deals and maybe find ways to add. I think Winnipeg is terrified of a rebuild concept in a lot of ways, but they might not have as much control over it. If Connor Hullabuck says, look, it's cup or bust, I'm not resigning no matter what, or I'll resigned for 10 mil at eight years into my late 30s. I mean, there's realities that Winnipeg may be backed into a corner. And to the Jets credit, I guess, they've had success.

success backed into a corner, but never four of them at the exact same time. Back to Wheeler's comments for a minute because, you know, he said he didn't like that bonus did in front of the media, do it behind closed doors. Is this, and a lot of his teammates backed him up too, you know, what Wheeler said, we're with it. Is this a player not wanting to swallow the truth or is this a player in a team that's unable to? And I mean, is it a matter of they just, they agree with everything Bonas said. They just didn't like the way he did it. Or is this a paper soft team that just can't take the criticism of the fact that they gave

a piss poor effort, especially in game five? Rob, that's a beautiful question because it's the one on JetS fans' minds. Like, there was just so much angst and the response to how that went down. And my own opinion is kind of twofold. First, you know, when you have Rick Bonas say that he's disgusted with the team's effort and lack of pushback. And hey, this problem goes back to January and February. You know for a fact that every single player is going to be asked, what did you think of what Rick Bonas said? So they know that as well. They've thought about it. They've talked about it. They clearly took

Blake Wheeler's lead in terms of, okay, how are we going to approach this? Whether they did that consciously in terms of they met and said, okay, that's what we'll say, or they just heard him say it because he was one of the first to speak. And you're like, yeah, as a matter of fact, like I don't think it's a coincidence that, what was it, eight or 10 or 12 players who spoke, all of them said, hey, I wish that he didn't do that publicly, but you know what I mean? So I think that there's a little bit of, I don't think that them saying that he should have done it privately is them throwing him under the bus. I think a lot of it is being made extra of the amount of conflict in that. At the same time, there is something missing from their response. In like, they're not saying

I wish he had said it to us directly because we agree. We didn't show up. We didn't arrive. We are to blame for it. We'll find a way to be better. We'll dig deep. You know, maybe Mason Appleton said something to that effect of,

hey, you can't accept that. If you accept it, you have a loser's mentality. You know, Blake Wheeler in the midst of a lot of answers that seem to say, like, seem to be focused on his upset with bonus being public,

did say that the team didn't show up. And like going through the transcript of the 10 or 12 players who spoke, I think that's the closest thing that you get to what we should have been better. And I think that has really bothered Jets fans. When I watched all of that and I see the coach and the players kind of not going at it, but sort of going at it in the postseason pressers. And then you mentioned how important this upcoming season is for this team. I'm wondering how this is going to work. I mean, you've got a bunch of players that are you need to impress them somewhat. Like, make them think this is where you want to be.

Make them think this team has a chance to win. And you've got a coach that is feuding with them. Like, do you think this is a, like you mentioned, how emotional it was. And is, do you think this is a, we were all upset and we can all get over it and be, be copacetic in the end? Or do you think this is going to be tough for Winnipeg to sell all these players on? and signing deals that are reasonable with bonus still here? I think if the only issue is about bonus saying that he was discussed with their lack of pushback, it had better be something that the players can get over.

It had better be because everybody involved is an adult. Everybody, you know, despite the amount of passion, despite the emotion, adults have conflict. Adults can say things, walk things back, negotiate how they feel about things. And even though they didn't do it in front of the microphone for us in a way that gave any satisfaction to the fan base, you know, there's a chance for them to have behind closed doors meetings where they actually address how they felt. And I hope that that's what the exit interviews revealed. But if it's about the overall direction of the franchise where the very next day Kevin Shevoldeof spoke and he took the exact same tag of, you know what? It's hard to make the playoffs. It's, you know, the what we've accomplished here is great.

And every time, you know, a criticism came his way or the organization's way, it almost seemed like from the top down there in that same sort of above reproach sort of perspective. And I know that you don't want to show weakness. You know, Winnipeg's a small market and everybody can see that the playoff success has not been what they wanted it to be of late. But the unwillingness to name any of the faults or any of the flaws or to say that we need to be better, I think that's a worse look from management than it is than the previous conversations were from the players, because players can get over an emotional exchange. When all the emotions calm down, they're looking at the roster.

They're looking at how likely do I think I can win here. Connor Hellebuck definitely is. And then we have Blake Wheeler saying in 2018, he only signed because he thought that Winnipeg was a team that could win. So you can bet that Mark Scheifle is. Kierleuie Dubois has his own, you know, he's reasons seem to. to be a little bit less clear and, you know, there's all the rumors about him wanting to play in Montreal, which I believe, but also winning would impact his life as well. And I think that it's now on Winnipeg's management to whether it's moves at the draft, if you have to trade Pierre Lut-Dubois

and what you can return for him, whether it's extensions or appropriate moves for Connor Hallibuck, Mark Schifley, Blake Wheeler, you have to convince whoever's going to stay that there's a winning recipe here or else the remaining pieces won't want to stay and you won't have a chance to do anything but rebuild no matter what you hope to be able to do. Yeah, you've wrote a couple good columns about this this week, especially what you were just talking about off Chevy's presser. You know, Jets fans, they're a passionate bunch. They're hilarious, by the way. I didn't think that I'd ever hear a funnier chant than we want Dubnick when Dubnick got pulled, uh, being down four nothing in game five. And in, uh, in 20, 2018, Alex

DeLock made that unbelievable save and the, the fans start chanting. We want Dubnick. Um, but the, your backup chant was pretty clever. How, how are the, how are the, how are the fans handling this right now? Because, uh, you know, as you mentioned, there is such an uncertain future, uh, very short term, you know, coming up here in the not so distant future with the jets. How are they handling this right now? I mean, I think it's been tough for Jets fans. I don't think that Jets fans felt spoken to very directly over the course of the weekend. And, you know, it might not be reasonable for the amount of catharsis that a fan needs to come out of these exit interviews.

They're not going to, not everybody's going to fall on the sword and say they were horrible. But I really think that fans in Winnipeg wanted their players, their coach, their general manager to say, this was a tough season, we want to be better, here are some ideas for how we're going to get better, or if we don't have them, we'll find them. And I don't think that there was that acknowledgement. Like you had asked about the player's response to bonuses, or comments,

and you didn't really get a lot of, we needed to be better, we have another level to get to. You definitely didn't get it from management. And that sense has irked a lot of fans, especially with two different things happening. One, over the last five years, the Winnipeg Jets fans were sold on a winning franchise. They were sold on the idea of that that 2018 run being the beginning of an era that looked like that.

2019, they lose to St. Louis in the first round, 2020 qualification round missed 2021. They win one round. They lose in round two. 2022, they missed the playoffs outright. They've won one playoff series since that 2018 playoff run. And that wasn't what Winnipeg Jets fans were sold on. believed in the core more than that. Now, of course, bufflin leaves and there's other extenuating circumstances, but the payoff was not what they were promised. They start to exit the building a

little bit. This is the first year. We're not seeing sellout after sellout. And towards the end of the year, the Winnipeg Jets release a video trying to hype up a season ticket drive. And in it, they gently remind in a vaguely threatening way that we're only here if you support us and you stick around and keep filling the building, which is an economic reality, but you can't say that to a group of Jets fans who watch their team leave. You know, there's an implied threat in that whether you want it to be one or not. So then to come out of that and end in these exit interviews where nobody's saying we want to be better, nobody's saying that a first round loss is unacceptable or not good enough, and nobody's saying when asked, here are our priorities to improve this

club, I think there's a level of angst that is deserved and kind of endemic and widespread to a Jets fans life right now. I want to see the Jets social media team remind Jets fans, hey, there's a beautiful new building going up in Atlanta. Hey, before we let you go, Marad, I just wanted to, I'd be remiss to not switch gears and just to ask you about this Florida team, coached by Paul Maurice, who left Winnipeg. and now they upset the Boston Bruins in the first round, and now they're up 1-0 in this Toronto.

One, are you shocked that Maurice came back to coach after leaving Winnipeg and two that they're doing so well? I mean, he tells this really lovely story about being sure that he was done, and, you know, it was several months after he left Winnipeg, and he gets a call from a number that he doesn't know, and it turns out to be Bill Zito, and he's like, oh, my goodness. He also says that, like, at one point he was watching Florida on TV, with his wife and saying, my goodness, a team that good. I, you know, I wouldn't be able to resist

that. And it turns out that it's Florida calling. So, you know, did I ever believe he was simply not going to coach again? Absolutely not. And when you get offered a chance to take over a president's trophy team, you know, that makes sense to me. That's a, oh my goodness, like, what can we do with that? In Winnipeg, I think that he was just too long at the fair. I think he was, you know, an above average coach with tremendous public speaking abilities who a lot of the core believed in all the way to the end and some of them didn't. And I think that after all of the years that he was in Winnipeg, the tenure had just, it had been enough. And I think that like my, my takeaway, wonderful human being, I've written community stories about him that just the above and beyond that he goes with people

in Winnipeg was one of the things that really resonated with me. So you sort of cheer for the guy. When they were out of the playoffs looking in, you were wondering like, what in the world is going on in Florida. And a lot of the metrics just show that they were dominating teams getting bad balances, not getting goaltending. So you sort of believe that they'd make it in eventually. And then the last thing I'll say is because when Winnipeg had the horses earlier on in Paul Marisa's tenure, and he was a little bit fresher to them, and it was their first go at competitive hockey, like in 2018, you know, that Jets Wild series that we both covered, he was able to get quite a lot out of his big name star players. The systems were maybe not the top.

one or two revolutionary, but they were modern for the time, the defensive pinches, all the activations. You got a good version of hockey out of that group. And I'm not surprised that with so many quality players with Matthew Kachuk, Sasha Barkov leading the way in that team and a lot of different secondary scores that he's been able to have success there. And I am happy to hear that he is. Well, Marat, if the last 20 minutes has taught us one thing, despite the fact the team you cover is out of the playoffs, you're going to be busy over the next little while because there are a lot a big question marks and a lot going on in Winnipeg. Thanks so much for doing this man.

We really appreciate it anytime you come by. Thanks, Rob. Thanks, guys. Maradetteh, Jets writer for the Athletic. After the break, Rapid Fire. All right, boys, my favorite time of the show and yours, Rapid Fire. And we only have two topics, but they have some topics. So that's why we only have two.

So let's get into it. Rapid Fire number one, as we always get at this time of the year, players commenting on their future. We saw four of them. Mark Andre Fleury says he's tired of moving and wants to stay in Minnesota. Anjikopatar says he wants to be a king for the entirety of his career. Zach Parizé said it's either here or nowhere in regards to the islanders and Patrice Bergeron is still mulling over whether or not he's coming back after that first round exit.

And I should mention Stephen Stamco says he wants to be a Tampa Bay Lightning for life as well. Which of these intrigues you will say the most? Is there someone you don't believe? Is there someone you do believe? Which one of these really jumped out to you? Rousseau, we'll start to you with you. I mean, Bergeron, that would be such a shame to just not see that guy on the ice again. I mean, I say that every last year, too, when he was mulling retirement.

You know, just still performs at such a high level and seeing how broken up he was at the end of that game. You just do wonder when he embraced Brad Marshan. But I'll just also mention Flower. I mean, you know, the reason why this was even a topic right now is the Wilder and Cap Hell, obviously because of the buyouts for Ryan Suter who beat them in round one and Zach Parisi who apparently only wants to go back to the Long Island and not back to Minnesota. Who knew? But I think this was a topic because you wondered with Philip Gustafin about to get re-signed. Would Mark Andre Fleury welcome maybe a move to whether it's his hometown to Montreal or

back to Pittsburgh or something and free $3.5 million from the wild? But the reason why he signed that two-year-a-deal guys was he wanted it. He did not. As long as he performed really well, he didn't want to move his family anymore. He was tired of bouncing from Vegas to Chicago to Minnie and wants to stay here and he made very clear that he's going nowhere. And he's eight wins from passing Patrick Waugh for second all time. So he is definitely going to play next season and hopefully break that prestigious record. Yeah, I was trying to remember who said it on Twitter because I want to give him credit. But someone once said, a wise man once said, hockey players don't like to move their shit. And as you

read through all of these veteran players in varying circumstances. Some are in a place where they can win and they want to stay there. Some are just in a place where they just don't want to move. That's the overarching theme is hockey players just don't want to move their shit. They just want to stay where they're at. And people look at it. Like, I think fans don't look at the human element as much. They look at like, well, why would you want to be there? You could win a cup here. It's like, well, maybe he just doesn't want to move. Like, maybe he just likes the neighborhood he's in. His neighbor next door is awesome, bake some pies. Like, who knows?

I, to be honest, you say who's the most surprising? None of them really surprised me. I think that it would, like, I agree with Michael. It would be a shame if Patrice Berseran is done just because while his age tells you he should be close to retirement, his play tells you he's got plenty of years left in the tank. I mean, the guy, you never know. Like, Father time creeps up quickly sometimes.

But man, did he look good this year? As good as he's ever looked. it would not be, it would be bad for the NHL to not have Patrice Burjuron in the NHL next year playing the way he has. So hopefully he comes back and gives it another run, at least another run, maybe another three or four. Yeah, 65 wins and you lose, you ask somebody after that happens. You're thinking, do I want to get back on the horse? He's accomplished everything you could possibly want to accomplish in a career, right off into the sunset. I could see him doing that too. But, you know,

midway through the summer, you start thinking, maybe I do want to come back. uh russo jump the gun on this next uh see jumping the gun again yeah just the other thing about mitch miller sorry about patrice burseron is his press conference at the beginning of the season when they signed mitch miller back in november um to me says everything about him as a human being for him to stand up and they see rail on the organization that that made that move um you know i i mean that that that that obviously means a ton to him um i i just uh to me i you know i already expected him greatly, but, but, you know, for him to be that courageous, which sometimes hockey players don't want to go up against the guy that pays them, the team that pays him. I think that

was pretty impressive. And rapid fire topic number two guys, we had two massive hits this week. Jordan Eberle, crunches Andrew Calgiano, breaks his neck. Caligliano somehow made an appearance in the third period, which to me is just mind-blowing. And then Jacob Truba just, just, a hit on Tim O'Myer that people have really broken down frame by frame to see if it was a headshot or not. But I want to know which one really got you to say that one was worse than the other. You got one guy who broke a neck. The other one basically made a man explode in the middle of the ice. And there's been a lot of debate as to which ones were clean, which ones weren't.

Your thoughts on these two hits. Jesse, we'll start with you on this one. If I were to say one is clearly dirtier than the other, I would probably say the Eberley hit is dirtier, just because you see a guy's name and number on the back of his jersey. Don't hit him anyway. You shove him into the boards and he hits his neck and breaks it. Like it was pretty black and white what happened in that play. Whereas the other hit, the Truba hit, there may not be a better open ice hiter in the NHL than Truba.

Like he lights dudes up legally with regularity. And he obviously contacted Timo Meyer's head on that play. He crunched his face. but there is also the argument that he was, that Meyer put his head down. And when you look at it in slow-mo, you say, well, look, he put his shoulder right into his face. But that's an ultra-slow-mo. These guys are skating 20 miles an hour in opposite directions. It's 40 miles an hour combined.

Like, how can he possibly see his head is dipping right before he hits him? He was clearly going for a chest hit. If you watch Truba, he hits, he makes those hits all the time. So that one is a little more boring. borderline for me. And it comes down to the question of, are you responsible for hitting a guy in the head if he ducks his head into your hit? And I think as we learn more and more about head injuries, and we get more and more careful about them, I think eventually that hit will be illegal. And regardless of the circumstances, if you hit the guy's head, it's illegal. I have a little more

sympathy for Truba because I think he was intention, I think he was intending to make a legal hit and just got caught and hit him in the head because of the last minute change, whereas the Cogliana one to me is more obvious that you knew what you were doing. Yeah, I agree with you. I mean, look, I've said before, I think the league has done a really good job of legislating these head hits out of the game. And, you know, there are just sometimes or there is unavoidable head contact. And I know that that is a controversial topic because everybody thinks, and I get it, that a hit like that needs to be outlawed out of the game. He got him square in the head. It was scary seeing Timel Meyer entire straits down there. But there is, you know, in this sport, or at least in this league,

I think that hit is probably illegal in most other leagues. You know, he's crouched down, he's skating, bent over, and he's trying to hit him head on. And unfortunately, we see the result. Truba is a predator. He does this before, but usually, you know, he hasn't risen to the level of going to the Department of Player's Safety suspending him. The Everly hit was to me really, shocking just from the standpoint that I did think it was a dirty hit. Very uncharacteristic of Jordan Eberley. I'm sure he feels absolutely awful too because they were teammates together in Edmonton, I believe, at the beginning of Eberley's career. I think Cogliano is two or three years older, but they played together at Edmonton. So I'm sure it's just an awful feeling for him.

But that to me was a dirty hit. I was surprised it didn't rise to, you know, to the league's level of reprimanding him. I mean, I've seen a lot of people argue that those massive open ice Scott Stevens type hits, headshot or not, just no longer have a place in the game. We just don't see them anywhere near as often as we used to. And that's what I mean like even say. Look at it up like someone's heads down, Stevens is going to try to take it off. They just kind of don't exist anymore, do they? No, and that's what I mean.

Like, I know it's really fashionable. And I get it. The inconsistency of the department player safety sometimes makes no rhyme a reason. why is an interference penalty on Nikolae Earlers, you know, on Ryan Hartman's suspendable, but you could cross-check a guy in the face like, you know, Lafferty and nothing happens. I'm thinking of the Colton play in the Tampa series. You know, like, you know, you're using a stick as a weapon and there's nothing. There's all sorts of inconsistencies there.

Yeah. But the one thing that they have done a good job of is getting these headheads out. The Rafi Torres-type elbows and the Scott Stevens things, this used to be a common thing all the time. And the league has done a good job of trying to get it out. And the players have done an incredible job of getting out of those habits that cause these hits. And so when we see him, it becomes big news. But to Jesse's point on that one, you know, like, because it's Truba, it seems predatory. But if you look at the play and think about not who the player was that delivered the hit, you could see what happened there. He was going for a chest hit. You know,

I think sometimes we look at these hits as a bit unnecessary, like the Dumbah hit on Povalski in the first round, but letter of the law, it's clean, but really did you have to do it? And that's where I think that when we see them, it becomes a little more shocking because we see him so seldomly right now. And I think the league does deserve credit for that.

I know it's not fashionable to say that, but I've covered this league a long time. I remember in the mid-90s guys, there was like an epidemic of butt-ins. guys were getting butt ends in the face almost weekly and there'd be suspended. And then they started suspending them and suspending them and suspending them. And do we ever see a butt end anymore? And that's where I think the league does do a good job.

So yeah, we could get rid of all head hits and any head contact is a suspension. But I guarantee if it happens to your, you know, a player on the team that you're a big fan of. And all of a sudden you see Connor McDavid might have made a little head contact with somebody. And now he's suspended. I think people are going to be a little upset about that. So, you know, there's a give and take with both things. And, you know, I'm just saying that I think that for the most part, the league has done a good job getting rid of these.

And we'll leave it there. Dumb question time. Jesse, what are you working on tonight? Yeah, there's a pretty big hockey game going on here in Vegas. So I'll be covering that one. It'll be, it should be fun. Rousseau, you got anything on top? Yeah, just mostly wild stuff right now until next week when maybe I could pop in on a series.

I'd love to go to Seattle or Florida, Carolina, you know, teams that we don't cover here at the Athletic with a beatwriter. But yeah, I'm working on a story. Like The Wild right now have $8 million of cap space and like a thousand guys to sign how the heck they're going to get it done. So I'm working on that with Joe Smith and Shane a Goldman, who's our rock star, much smarter person at the athletic than I am working on that. And today I'm also going to write a Matt Boldie story, you know, really had an unbelievable

stretch down the run, but flopped in the playoffs. And Billy Garen let him have it in the exit meeting that the two of them had to the point that Matt looked almost shell-shocked when he talked to the media right after. So I'll be writing about that. We're doing a big Coral Caprice-off story here. And Brock Favor, who unbelievably went from the University of Minnesota to play all six playoff games to the wild. He was the only defenseman, only player on the wild ice that wasn't on for a goal against we're going to be writing about him.

Wouldn't it be great if HBO could do a 24-7 just on exit interviews? I think it would be incredible. Like, I've always wanted to be a floor. lie on the wall. Forget the war, forget everything else when a players had a bad season or a team had an early exit. Just watching those exit interviews would be so much fun. Anyways, another show of the books, boys. We'll see you next week. And I want to remind everybody if you want to see our ugly mugs. Well, there's a YouTube channel. Go to YouTube.com slash the athletic hockey show. The athletic hockey show continues Thursday with Ian Mendez and down goes brown. I want to say thanks to

Morat again for coming on and talking Winnipeg Jets. Jesse, for Russo, I'm Piso. We'll see you next week.