The Athletic Hockey Show - Gavin McKenna headlines latest NHL Draft rankings

Episode Date: November 7, 2025

Presumptive No. 1 pick in next year’s NHL Draft, Gavin McKenna, sits atop Scott Wheeler’s latest draft rankings, but can guys like Keaton Verhoeff, Ethan Belchetz, and Tynan Lawrence challenge his position before selections are made in June? Plus, the guys discuss Ivar Stenberg’s historic SHL start, the major differences between Scott and Corey’s rankings, and whose World Juniors stock is up or down as we head into November.Hosts: Max Bultman, Corey Pronman, and Scott WheelerExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Chris FlanneryGot a question? Ask it here: t.co/fYieuQEg14Watch full episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowJoin our Discord Server: https://discord.gg/VTm9VjkFSubscribe to The Athletic: https://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Hey, everybody, Max Bultman here alongside Scott Wheeler and Corey Prondman for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Both Scott and Corey with new draft rankings out recently. And let's start at the very top. There's one thing you have in common here. There's a couple things. But the big thing you have in common is still Gavin McKenna at number one in a tier of his own. But Corey, does that feel like it says, it feels like that ranking comes almost in spite of what's been.

a maybe less than thrilling start for Gavin McKenna. Yeah, we talked about this on the last episode that I think with McKenna, you don't want to overreact too much to not even a dozen college games so far, given his absolutely prolific college, not college career, his junior career. But you look at his start and you look at his toolkit. And I think there's a lot of people in the league asking, doesn't this have some rhymes to what happened with James Hagan's last year, where you have this elite offensive player or doesn't translate to college directly at the level you expect right away.

And then if the offense isn't completely prolific in college, you know, this isn't a big guy. He's not super fast. He's not physical. And, you know, if he's not providing off the charts offense, you know, what is he, you know, really as a number one overall pick? And I think you start looking around and saying, well, I think the reason why he's not falling off for me and for a lot of people in the league is, I don't think as of November 4th when we're recording this right now, that there is an obvious alternative that has clearly leapfrogged him. But there is some rumblings, and there are some guys who have been off to hot starts to the year,

and then if it continued deep into the season, and if McKenna doesn't really light up the conference play, when he starts playing against good teams, he did start off conference play well against Ohio State, though. You know, you look at what Keaton-Berhoff stars look like in North Dakota has been very good. You know, Ivers Denberg and Afrolanda has been off to an exceptional start. Ethan Belketz has been off to a really good start in Windsor. Even though he hasn't played much to start the year, I think there are some scouts. We're still very excited about Pioneer, DeMiskegan, and think that he's, just because he's the number one center in this draft,

he's got a chance at least be in that conversation. If he has the year in the USHL we expect when he gets healthy. I don't think McKenna is so light years ahead of these guys that the conversation can be avoided all season but I'm not ready to say

that someone's tied with him or that he's not number one that being said I have talked to people in the league who feel that it's at that point right now that we need to start discussing him with Verhof and with Belkent and with Lawrence I want to at least wait until we get

you know a little bit deeper into the college season and maybe towards a world junior, see how he does there. But I definitely think those conversations are happening right now. And Scott, you got five names in your tier two there. How many of those would you consider to be, or to have a chance at seriously threatening Gavin? I know you still don't hear of himself right now, but by years end, how many would you say have a serious chance to get into that?

I think the more likely outcome for me is that a guy or two from that group maybe joins Gavin in the same tier. I'm not sure I'll get to the point at the end of this season. Like his five-on-five struggles would have to persist all year. And I don't think that's going to happen for Gavin. It is notable that only three of his 13 points through his first 10 games here have come at five on five. But I think we're going to see more of that. The shot creation is there. His shooting percentages low. He's generating. He's not playing on their big boy line. They really lean on their return, that sort of returning top line

with Cerrado. So there are different things that have contributed to his quote unquote slow start. But 13 points in 10 games is still indicative of a top prospect. And I think we're going to see him. I touched on it the pod a pod a couple of weeks ago. But I think we're probably going to see a four point game around the corner for him at some point here. And he's going to break through and he's going to start to feel better about himself. And that's going to build through the world juniors.

And he's going to be one of Canada's best players at the world juniors. And Canada are the gold medal favorites. and I think we're going to see a bit of a realignment around Gavin McKenna in the conversation as this goes on. To answer your question, I think Stenberg and Verhoff, who are obviously my second and third ranked prospects, are the two that I feel closest on. I know there are some who believe that Belketz is in that conversation. I've seen Ethan play several times already this year.

I was just in Saginaw last weekend and saw him play. A couple weekends before that, I saw him play in Brantford. He was excellent in both of those games, and frankly, better than linemate Jack Nesbitt, who was almost a top 10 pick of the Philadelphia Flyers in both of those games. And as good, if not better than Liam Green Tree, who's a 19-year-old and coming off being one of the league's leading scorers a year ago in both of those games. So Belketz is legit. I don't know what the next, like I know what the next level for Stenberg and Verhof is.

I think Stenberg can be a premium, premium first-line winger in the NHL. I think Verhof can be a first-paring defenseman in the NHL. I do wonder if Belketz becomes more of just like a really unique, big, strong, heavy, talented sort of Matthew Nye's style top six player, maybe a little bit more than that. I actually think he's probably a little bit more skilled than Nise was at the same age. But I don't know whether I'll get to Belkets as a player that I could imagine taking first overall, I guess is what I'm saying. And I think I could maybe get to that point on Stenberg and Verhof if they continue to sort of

trend in the right direction here. I know we always love doing comparables in November when we're, you know, more than half a year away here from actually calling these kids' names at the draft. But the early comps I thought of for McKenna would probably be Artemi Panarin. For Belketz, I've thought of Slavkovsky. And for Verhof, I've thought of Aaronekblad. So, and you can just, don't even agree or disagree with that. But let's just say, for argument of sake, those are the three names.

What order would you have those three names in? It's probably Panera, Neck, Blad, and then I forgot, Slavkovsky was your third. Yeah, I think that's probably the way I would go. I think that's probably the way I'd go as well. For what it's worth, I had an NCAA coach who was in Windsor at that Windsor Saginaw game that I was at last weekend, who used Rick Nash after how impressive Ethan Belketz was. I don't think he skates like Rick Nash did, but that was a name that got tossed out there to me. Rick Nash was by Com for Slavkovsky three years ago, mind you.

That's true. There's a nice little through line there. If you went one level up, though, Corey, from Slavkovsky, and if you really bought the physicality, which at times, I think you probably could, if you got to like a Brady Kachuk level, I think that conversation kind of gets upended. I'm not sure he's quite Brady Kachuk. I don't think there's too many guys quite like that. But I'm just saying if the physicality ticks up just a little more and if you really believe

that the offense is a 60 to 70 point guy, that's the name that I think starts to upend that conversation if you start to get into the Brady-Kitchuk territory. Would you take Brady over Panarin? I might, yeah. I mean, it's hard to say because Panarans, right now we're seeing a decline from Panarin. So you've got to separate those biases.

Yeah, you're thinking of his peak years, though, where he's like a hundred point threats. Right. And so I think it's close. I mean, would you rather have the 70 to 80-point Brady-Cachuk type who I think impacts games every night? night even if he's not scoring or would you rather have the hundred point guy 20 points is a lot it's traded off i might be willing to make yeah yeah i think that's going to be a conversation we're

going to hear as we get closer to the spring is is mckennaud the type you win with you prefer a bear or a bell kits and um you get a long way to go until that point we'll see how they actually play the rest of the way here um but i think that's it's interesting conversation like i said i would probably still like i think that that talent gap is so large like i think that that talent gap is so large like I think the skill gap on McKenna is just like so, so much bigger than anybody else that I would still lean that way. But kind of like I said at the top here, if the offense doesn't come in the way we expected to, then two months later from here I definitely could start, you know, coming off on McKenna as a number one player. Corey, your number two prospect is actually a guy that we haven't talked about in this grouping.

You mentioned him in your answer, Tynne and Lawrence, a guy who, as you said, has missed a little bit of time. Why does he belong in that mix for you? I think he just ticks every box. Excellent skater, excellent competitor, excellent skill level. You know, what he did last spring in the USHL being the top player in their playoffs and helping Meskitean win.

And, you know, he was just so impressive. And he may not be the most dynamic skill player, but he has so much in his game to me that makes me think he could potentially be maybe an average to blow average first line center in the NHL. I kind of think of him like in a Sabasci Naho type of player mold that I just think the way he plays is just so likable and he will impact a game in so many different ways

that I think he belongs in that conversation. That instead, I would like to see him play. I tried to go watch him play a couple of days ago and he got hurt again. So one of these days he needs to, to get on the ice and get a season going here. But from what I saw last year, and at the Hullink, he looks like a true top tier prospect.

And then one final thought on Gavin McKenna here. This was something I was thinking about the other day. Does the NCAA need Gavin McKenna to be the first overall pick here? Do they kind of need this to go really, really well for him so that it doesn't become a little bit of a, oh, you know, selling point for CHL teams to be like, hey, look what happened to McKenna. He was a can't miss first overall pick. He goes to college and he ends up second or third.

What has the Beirhoff goes over one? I was going to say the same thing. If Fairhoff and him go one, too, I don't think it really matters in what order they go. All right, fair point. I guess they would have to take a CHL kid or even Tyn and Lawrence going number one to make that selling point. But Tyn and Lawrence doesn't do them much good in the USHL kid. I do think if he wouldn't have left, though, it would have been frowned upon in the NHL. I think they would have looked at a guy who basically did everything he possibly could have in junior hockey

and didn't make the step. and they would be asking questions like, why isn't he challenging himself? And, you know, different types of questions and the questions we're asking right now. That's the consequences of being such a good player is you will always have questions asked of you because everybody's watching you. Yeah, there's nitpicking for sure. All right, let's go to Evar Stenberg now because to your point, Corey, like the start for Evar has been excellent in the SHL here.

Can you contextualize for people who maybe haven't followed his season what you're seeing from Evar right now? I mean, for Lundas, one of the very best teams in the SHL, I think even as we're popular, they might be number one or number two in the standings right now. And he gets first power play opportunities. He's a regular even strength. He's one of their leading scores. You know, just what he's doing right now is nearly unprecedented. Like you look at what Elias Lindholm did in the SHL, Leo Carlson.

His pace is way ahead of those guys. And the impact he's having on his team is right up there with them. It was a little bit smaller, not a center. like those guys were. But just, you know, just outstanding start to the season here. We'll see whether he keeps it up. We'll see how his World Junior goes.

You know, we talk about him versus McKenna. You know, the struggle I would have is that, you know, people will think, well, look at how good Stenberg looked at the U18s last year. It's like, yeah, well, McKenna did better the year before that at the U18s. You know, it's, you know, as both of them are like small-skilled, Winger is it. Like McKenough would really need to fall off in the coming months and Stenbrook would need to continue doing this for me to have him in the same conversation. But that being said, I mean, he looks, you know, you think about Perlunda winger like Lucas Raymond. He could barely get

in the lineup in his draft season. Even in his draft post one season, he struggled at times of the SHL for Perlunda. And this guy's making a difference. Like this is a pretty special offensive talent. He's a competitive kid. And he has all the makings that Scott said as a potential first line wing in the NHL. From an impact standpoint, it actually reminds me of what William Nealander did in his post-draft season in that league, where William was an excellent, excellent player at that level and then came over and joined the Marleys and was an excellent player for the Marley's right away. If you think he's a more competitive kid on pucks than Willie was at that same age, but I see a similar path for him to becoming that level of that level of player, who's a leading scorer on a team or one of the two or three top forwards on a team. I think he's that talented. I went over there to watch him play a couple of times.

One game was just okay, but the second game I saw, he was one of the two to three best overall players in the entire game. And that's pretty rare for a teenager in the SHL. I'm not saying, you know, there's going to be absent flows with the guy that young. But he's absolutely deserving being talked about at the very top of the draft. All right, let's take a quick break right there. We'll come back with more draft talk on the Fonatatikki Show Prospect series. All right, we're back.

going to go a little bit deeper into the draft rankings here. And Scott, I want to start with you, because on your list, you have two smaller defensemen, Xavier Villeneuve and Ryan Lin, both in your top seven after a draft where we have seen in really several drafts recently where we have seen smaller defensemen kind of get pushed down the board last year being the most extreme example. I wanted to hear a little more about your thought process in getting both Lynn and Vilnove into the top seven. I think it's just the year, honestly. The trend is certainly trending in that direction where a year out from no sub six foot D going in the in the entire draft. Obviously, Camry got that extra 0.25 inches at the combine that made that stat, that turned that

that stat into a reality. But we are, it is, it is trending that way at the draft. Despite Denton Matechuk and some other players having success, we've talked about the many, many players at that height that were first round picks in the last 10 or so years who, who on the flip side have struggled, whether it's the Boquists or the Villahenola's or even Rasmus Sandine at times in his career, you go down the list. But I think this is, it's just the year. You play the cards that you're dealt in a draft class, and I think the cards that you're dealt in this draft class are that those are two of the more special, more talented,

more projectable players in this class for me. Vilnav is arguably the most, certainly up there with Gavin McKenna as arguably the most purely gifted player in this class. I think he's a special, special dynamic talent on the puck who can break teams down and is going to do that at the NHL level. Vilnov doesn't defend at a, necessarily at a top 10 level for me at this point, and I do have questions about what that will look like in the NHL for him, but because of the talent, because of his feet, because of the way he handles and attacks with the puck, I think that is translatable. And once you get past the top six that we talked about in that sort of tier at the top for me,

I think Villeneuve is right there at the very top of that next group. But in saying that, there is a player who is in that group for me, who isn't maybe in that group for the consensus, and that's Ryan Lynn. We've talked about him a little bit on the pot already, and Corey and I have gone back and forth about him a little bit already. I know Corey feels differently about Lynn than I do in terms of range, and NHL Scouts tend to lean Corey's way. but there are some big believers around the WHL, around Hockey Canada,

including amongst NHL scouts in Ryan Lynn, and I've sort of fallen into that camp here. I think he defends for a 511D at a very, very, very high level. His details, little retrievals, everything is there at a high level, except maybe the size piece and the fact that he's about an average skater. The line you immediately draw, I think, is kind of that, Adam Fox, extremely, extremely intelligent player, thinks the game at among the highest levels in this draft class for me, defends well, is a top player in his age group, has been a top player

in his age group all the way up. I think he's going to be a big part of Team Canada at future World Juniors, et cetera, et cetera. The real question scouts just have is, is, the feet are average for a 5-11 guy. Like, he doesn't skate like a Villeneuve does. He doesn't sort of operate offensively like he does. He has really opened up his game this year. been very impressed by how he's expanded his game offensively. And this is coming off of being with Landon-Dupont, the first two defensemen in more

than a decade to have 50 points in the W.HL as a 16-year-old a year ago. So despite the fact that he maybe doesn't look like Villeneuve, he's been extremely, extremely productive, like top of a draft class productive as well. He's not going to be for everybody, but I think with the details and the way he defends, there is a lot there. Like, he is very impressive in his own zone. Corey, I wanted to go to you on a couple of the center prospects that you've had kind of tick up your list. And one of those is out of Finland.

And it's Oliver Suvanto, a player that I didn't know a whole lot about until he kind of came onto my radar through you. Yeah. And I think I mentioned in our Holinka episode. I thought he was really good there. And this is a guy who, when I watched him a year ago, didn't really impress me a whole lot. When I saw the U-17 age group for Finland, he didn't really stand out in a significant way. But this is also a guy who is really young. I think he's a couple of days away from being 2007 draft eligible.

Yeah, one week away. And, you know, he's really just developed at a significant rate in the past six to nine months. You know, he's playing, you know, regular minutes on one of the very best teams in Liga and Tapara. He's big. He's heavy. He's very skilled. you know, he's going to, I think, going to be right in the mix to make this world junior team for Finland. His skating is just okay.

But for me, when you look at just the trajectory he's on, the significant skill he has, you go back and watch some of those whole link of games when he's playing against junior players, which he hasn't got a chance to do much of in the fall here, and he was just so impactful. You know, this is a guy that reminds me a little bit, like how, like, say, like, Connor Geeky looked at the same age. And, like, that's the kind of range. I think these guys tend to go in is, you know, high teams, latter part of the top 10. Like, I think he's got a chance to be a second-aligned center in the NHL. And, you know, we'll see how the rest of his year goes.

We'll see whether he makes the U-20 team or not. He's got a, he's playing with the U-20 team here this week as we record in the tournaments they're playing in. But, yeah, like I said, he's a really exciting player. And I do think if the draft happened tomorrow, this is, that's about the range in the draft he would go in. And there's another center that's climbed your list, too, out of Brantford. And then that's Caleb Malholtra. And you have Suvanto at 9, Malhotra at 11. All of a sudden, this draft that looked a little bereft on centers,

we're starting to see some names take up that board. Yeah. And Malhotra, for me, I did not expect the start of the year. Like, when I watched a little bit of his BCHR, saw he had good skill. I didn't think it was outstanding skill. I didn't think his skating was all that impressive. And just watching him this season, like, man, has he been good with Brantford? I know Bramford is loaded and he has that top power.

He's on the top power play. And he gets, you know, you look at the plays that, you know, Adam Benach and Eurecheck and Jake O'Brien make around him. But, I mean, he's still been very impressive. He's playing penalty kill. He's playing regular, even strength minutes on this team. He's competing hard. He's driving play with his feet.

He's making a lot of really creative plays. And, yeah, I mean, I, you know, we'll see how he looks when, frankly, half his team leaves here at a couple of weeks to go to the world juniors. I don't think I'm exaggerating what I say that. But what I've seen so far, just kind of like Savanto, the development he's made has been extremely significant in a short period of time. And I think he's not just been a passenger on that top brand for team. I think he's been a reason why they've been a top team.

Scott, you also have Malhotra as a first round pick and actually Suvanto for that matter as well. But I'm curious what you want to see from Mel Holter as the year. progresses before you put him into this kind of top 10 to 12 range where Corey has him. I just wonder a little bit about the ultimate offense for Malhotra. He's another player that I've seen play several times already this year live, plus on tape, and extremely impressive in terms of the details of the game. Like as Corey mentioned, he's penalty killing, he's good in the faceoff circle, he knows where to be, he's above the puck, he supports his linemates really well.

He's been an important part of a very important line for them, despite how loaded they are. all those guys, the Vanekers, the Benox, they've played together at the top of that lineup. And their line, they just traded Aiden O'Donnell, who was an important part of that line as part of the Ben Danford deal. But their line with Aiden O'Donnell and Cooper Dennis became a pivotal, sort of early in the season, middle six line for them and has produced it five on five, despite some of the cookies that he does get by playing on the top power play there. He's a very smart player, but he doesn't really have the physical tools. You meet him. He's a really, really skinny kid. He's not a burner in terms of his skating.

His skill level and his shot are good, but I don't think he's going to be a 30-goal guy at the NHL level. So I think you're looking at the two-way detail. You're looking at the position. You're looking that he is good size. Like, he's over six feet tall and should be able to fill out. And you're looking at the smarts and thinking, okay, what does that player look like at the NHL level? And I think he's probably a middle six, more likely a third-line center for me at the NHL level, which sort of kept him in the 20s on my list as opposed to, say, the teens.

I think that player style is a little different, but I think the way he plays, the environment he's in, it reminds you a little bit of Barrett Hayton. In terms of the great team that was around him in his draft year, the great all-around centerman, now Barrett Hayden shouldn't have done five, but he definitely is a guy who's, I think, belonged in the teams. We're going to put a pin on that strong team in Brantford here as we take a break, because We're going to come back with them right out of this break. All right, we're back.

And Corey, earlier this week, you had a piece come out that was a World Junior Stockwatch talking about players who have helped and hurt themselves for trying to make the rosters at this year's tournament. Really good story. I would recommend everybody check that out. I'm not going to pull directly from that so much here, but I'm making a couple inferences based on what I'm reading here, Corey. You got three Brantford Bulldogs with stock up.

Does that mean that this team's stock is going to be down in December because they're going to be without all these guys? Probably, you know, this is one of the more loaded CHL teams we've seen in the last few years, and they continue to load up. They have traded for Ben Danford. And I don't know whether they're quite necessarily done here trying to acquire pieces as we approach the OHL trade deadline. But that team is just... I bet that they push hard for Luchenko here in the next couple of weeks.

That was the name I was thinking of without outright saying it, but Scott said it. So that's fine. Is, you know, I think, you look at that team. And, I mean, that whole top unit of, you know, I think at the start of the year, I'm not sure what Scott thinks, I think we thought Jake O'Brien's probably on the bubble for the World Juniors for Team Canada. But I thought he was, I thought he, coming out of the summer showcase, I thought he was fully out. I actually remember texting his dad, texting his dad that I thought he was unfortunately going to be out.

Like, I don't think he was even in the conversation. Yeah, but now I presume Beckett Seneca's not going to get a loaned out. We'll see what happens with Berkeley Cat and we'll see what happens with Michael Mesa at the NHL level, but given the year he's having, I think he's squarely in the conversation to make team Canada. He's been one of the very best players in the CHL. He's a center. He has size. He's been competing hard. So he's been great. Adam Benox's been fantastic. That whole blue line is just great. You know, you got year check there. You have Owen Protz is a, you know, not really skilled player, but his skating and his physicality could put him in the

Mix-Make Team Canada. He was at the Summer Showcase. You know, you have Ben Dan for now on this team. You have Merrick Vaneker, who's been, you know, really filling that net front role on the power play, and he plays hard, and might find his way into a bottom six spot there. So, yeah, it's quite possible that there's going to be a lot of team Canada representation from the Brantford Bulldogs.

And Team Chequia representation from the Brantford Bulldogs. I think there's a good chance Vladimir Jurekeke, who's draft eligible. this year joins. Yes. Banach on that team. And Yorchuk. We were talking about Corey a second ago. You were talking about all the guys who were waiting to find out and maybe even thinking

probably won't get loaned out to Team Canada. You mentioned a lot of forwards there. But Scott, this has to be a huge worry for Team Canada on the blue line here because a lot of the names that we're thinking from this 2024 draft class, you remember it was that outstanding blue line year. And a lot of them were Canadian. Are they getting any of these guys this year? Yeah, I remember when the three of us put together our,

sort of predicted lineups for Team Canada this summer, we all kind of commented on, I'm not sure the defense will look as good as it does here. It come December. Just the expectation was that Perak and Dickinson were going to start in the NHL, that Brunachie had a good chance to start in the NHL, that Schaefer had a good chance to start in the NHL. Well, now all four of those players are currently in the NHL, and a couple of them have already been announced as not going back to their junior clubs.

Now, that doesn't necessarily mean that we're not going to see a Sam. Dickinson who was just told that he's staying or a Zane Perrek who's who sounds like he's staying or potentially even a Brunachie lent but they're not going to get Matthew Schaefer and they I think they at this point they're probably happy to get one of those four guys which means the shape of this blue line for Team Canada starts to look a lot different and unfortunately for them one of the players who'd played his way into that mix and I think was in line if they were to miss some of those power play guys to be a third pairing power play guy for them with the way that he'd started at is Henry Mews, who is now also done for the year. So you start to look down the depth chart.

I don't think Cam Reed and Kitchener, who was probably in the mix for the third pairing there, has played particularly well this year. I think Danford probably bodes well. I think you could see his teammate Owen Prots in the mix, as Corey alluded to. Could Keaton Verhoff be a part of the team? We've talked about that a little bit. But that's a much different look than wheeling out Matthew Schaefer and Zane Perreck and Sam Dickinson and Harrison Brunkey for 25 minutes a night each. So suddenly, they're they're a little susceptible i think in in that kayshawn hsson probably gets into the mix uh it'll still be a good good blue line but that their forwards i think are going to be much stronger based off of uh the outlook there and even that i mean there's no guarantee berkeley cat and michael misa

corey mentioned becket seneke there's no guarantee they get some pretty important contributors there ben kindle could maybe not be available he's another guy who i don't think was really in the mix coming out of the World Junior Summer Showcase. It looked like he was on the outside looking in. Cole Reschney actually felt like he was sort of firmly in the mix after the way that he played at that tournament. And I don't think Reschney's been particularly impressive, at least not in my viewings of North Dakota this season. So I think there's a lot at play there. Caleb Dainoyer is coming off an injury. Sasha Boisvare is coming off an injury. There are a lot of questions suddenly for this team Canada. I think he got hurt in the first game back again, although I don't know the severity.

Yeah, so that's just another thing that they've got to figure out here. It's a long list. I think they're happy that Brady Martin is back in junior. There are some players who are trending in the right direction, but you're talking suddenly about eight or nine guys that I think were, if not locks to be a part of the team, were strong candidates to make the team who either haven't played well or are injured or are unavailable via the world juniors. So they could take a bigger hit this year than even we're used to at recent tournaments.

I do wonder, given that Mark and Dale Hunter are part of this team, Canada, and that I think we expect the sign Jose Sharks will continue to be not very good. And then Sam Dickinson, even though he's made the team, he's not playing a significant role. That's one, I think, they will find a way to convince the Sharks to loan him out by December. Like, I just think that one just makes too much sense. Scott mentioned Ben Kindle, Corey. And that's a player who at the time, I think, was one of the surprise picks of the 2025 draft. and really all he's done this year is justify the penguin's faith in him.

Absolutely. You would have told me a year ago. He's going to be a third-light center in the NHL. I mean, he's not a center in junior. Why is he going to be a center in the age? P-P-1 with Rosby and Malcolm. Yeah, I mean, he's just, it looks so good. I went to one other games the other week,

and he was really impressive there for an 18-year-old. And, yeah, he's just looked like he looks like he's going to be a top six-four in the league, whether he's going to stay in the middle or be in the wing long term. We'll see, obviously, it's going very well for him in the middle right now. Even as an 18-year-old, I think he still gets knocked around a little bit in battles, but that's to be expected when you're 5, 10, 170, whatever he is kind of thing. But his skill is hockey sins, he works hard, he's good enough skater. I think it'll be fascinating to see whether they load them out for Team Canada or not,

because they've been winning games. I think you look at the underlying numbers, and I think you can ask reasonable questions, about whether they will continue to win games here over the course the next few months and what's in the best long-term interest of Kindle and the Penguins. But if he's playing regular minutes, me he played 22 minutes when we recorded this last night.

So that's not a guy who gets loaned out. If he was more like how he was at the start of the year where he was playing like 11, 12, 13 minutes, that's a loaned out candidate, especially if they're not winning. But that's going to be a really fascinating one. And I think that's going to be one where I don't know if Team Cat had expected

they would have to haggle over Fed Kindle to turn to be on the team, two months ago, and I think they are going to need to really twist the penguins management's arms there to get them. Two players, Scott, for Team Canada, who, you know, stand to kind of be even in more prominent roles now, Michael Hage and Justin Carboneau both off to really, really good starts this year. Yeah, coming out of the summer showcase, I think Hage was trending to make the team, and Carbino was kind of a bubble guy.

He'd had very, very good camps with St. Louis, but didn't play well at all, frankly, at the summer showcase in August in in in Minneapolis. The the reverse was true for Hage in a very disappointing camp where I thought there were big questions about Canada, including some of their top guys who got to leave early and go home after after getting upset early in the tournament. If you can call it a tournament for summer hockey. But Hage was very, very good there. Like he was one of the two or three forwards who stood out the most there.

And that has continued into the start of his season. We talked about Brantford in the wagon that they've been. but Michigan, everybody seems to be playing at a very, very high level right now as well. Everybody seems to be clicking there and playing their best, and Hage is right at the forefront of that. I think he's not just on this team, but if they're without Katten and Misa and some of their centers down the middle, I wonder even if he's a top six center on this team. I don't think they like the idea of returnees like Colbo Duay or Jet Lucenko in that kind of a role at the top of the lineup down the middle. I'm not sure they like Brady Martin there.

I'm not sure they'll get Ben Kindle. And there are a lot of questions. You've got wingers like Porter Martone and Gavin McKenna that you just swat in. I'm not sure who their centers are if they're without Katten and Misa down the middle there. So I do wonder about Hage in that role. And if he's not there, I think he's got a real good chance to be a top six winger for them. I wonder about Brady and Coots maybe now too, because they're just because the need for a center. Even still, like it's not sexy down the middle there.

Yeah. You mentioned Michigan, one of the crazy stats I was looking up yesterday. Both were eligible in the same draft class for the first year. The undrafted Dakota Ray O'Mullin, who I highlighted in the article there was a guy with Bussup Stockup for the World Juniors, who I think has a really good chance to make team USA. He has more points currently this college season than James Higgins does. He was a late call for the summer showcase too and was very good at the summer showcase as a guy who wasn't initially on the roster that they announced there.

You know who also has more goals than Gavin McKenna is Keaton, He does. So does Ilya Moroza at the University of Miami who there's a lot of people going into watch right now. Six three center, six three first line center on Miami who can skate as a 17 year old. I think his draft stock will be very interesting to follow in the coming months. A lot of great stuff, both on the world junior front and the draft front and a lot more to come. That is going to do it for us today. Thanks for listening to this episode of the athletic hockey show Prospect series. Remember to check us out on YouTube. We'll talk to you soon.