The Athletic Hockey Show - Golden Knights and Panthers on the cusp of Conference Finals sweeps, Craig Conroy takes over Flames, Penguins seek permission to speak with Kyle Dubas, and Ray Whitney talks Jamie Benn's cross-check

Episode Date: May 25, 2023

On the Wednesday roundtable, Rob, Jesse and Mike discuss the Golden Knights decimating the Dallas Stars in game three of the Western Final, the Jamie Benn cross check on Mark Stone and the unbelievable play of Adin Hill in net and Jack Eichel, leading Vegas to a three game to none series lead.The guys head out East to check on the Panthers and Hurricanes, with 8th seed Florida, led by Sergey Bobrovsky poised to sweep the Carolina Hurricanes. The guys comment on Craig Conroy becoming the General Manager of the Calgary Flames and the ongoing soap opera in Toronto after Kyle Dubas was not offered an extension to remain GM of the Maple Leafs, and where the highly sought after manager might end up next.Ray Whitney, Stanley Cup Champion with the 2006 Carolina Hurricanes joins the roundtable to talk about his career, what it was like to play for the Canes in Raleigh, and the Florida Panthers in Miami and the 'Wizard' takes us inside the Player Safety department of the NHL which he has worked for, under director George Parros since 2017, including breaking a little news about the hearing for Dallas Captain Jamie Benn after his vicious cross check on Mark Stone in the Stars game three loss to Vegas.Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowGet a 1-year subscription to The Athletic for $2 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshowSign up for a Chime Checking Account today to link your paycheck. It only takes two minutes and doesn’t affect your credit score. Get started at http://chime.com/nhlshow. That’s http://chime.com/nhlshow.Download the Dave app from the App store right now or go to http://dave.com/nhlshow Sign up for an Extra Cash account and get up to 500 dollars instantly. For terms and conditions go to dave dot com slash legal. Instant transfer fees apply. Banking services provided by Evolve bank and trust. Member FDIC.Head to http://FACTORMEALS.com/nhlshow50 and use code nhlshow50 to get 50% off your first box. That’s code nhlshow50 at http://FACTORMEALS.com/nhlshow50 to get 50% off your first box.The right tone can move any project forward when you get it just right with Grammarly. Go to http://grammarly.com/tone to download and learn more about Grammarly Premium’s advanced tone suggestions. That’s http://grammarly.com/tone.Check out all of the delicious options at http://nuts.com/hockey23. You’ll receive a free gift and free shipping when you spend $29 or more Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is The Athletic Hockey Show. Hey, folks, before we jump in, we want to tell you about New York Times Audio, a new iOS app for New York Times news subscribers. It's got our show, plus other great podcasts from the athletic, exclusive shows, narrated articles, and more. New York Times Audio, download it now at NYTimes.com slash audio app. What's going on, everybody? Welcome to another fine edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. I'm Rob Pizel from CBC Sports, joined by two very busy guys. in the playoffs right now, Jesse Granger and Mike Russo.

How are we, boys? Doing well. We're both in very, very humid places that I think that, well, Jesse won't be spending a lot of time in Dallas next round, but I'll be spending, I think, a lot of time here in Florida and a lot of time in Vegas with Jesse. Yeah, you guys keep going back and forth. You both, I know this is a podcast, so people won't be able to look at us.

unless they jump on our YouTube page, but you both just look like you're going through the grind, the playoff grind at this point right now. Jesse's just shaking his head. I mean, I got back. I mean, you can see me sitting in the hotel room. I got back to this hotel room from the arena six hours ago.

So, yeah. Jesse's always the guy. No matter what time we want to record this thing, he's like, I am down. So we've got a lot of stuff to get through, guys. Enough with the pleasantries. Jesse, why did it take so long? Your story should have been written by the end of the first period.

I don't have a deadline at the athletic. I get to take my time. Well, we got a deadline. We've got a lot to get to, like I said. Ray Whitney's going to be joining us in the second half of the show as well, former Stanley Cup champion, now working with the league's Department of Player Safety, so be sure to tune into that.

But let's start exactly where Russo said, because we've got brooms out guys in both conference finals, which I didn't see coming. I don't know about you guys, but we have to start with Vegas with a four. nothing win over Dallas. As Rousseau alluded to there, you could have written the story

after the first, I don't know, seven minutes and ten seconds of this game. They were up three to nothing. They chase Ottinger. Aiden Hill picks up his first career playoff shutout. Vegas now one win away from a sweep. We'll get to the ugly stuff in a minute, Jesse,

but just game-wise, series-wise, did you see anything like this coming? No. We actually asked Pete DeBore exactly that last night. And he said the same thing. Did not see it coming at all. He expected a big pushback from his team. That's what I expected from the stars. And what's really weird is you look so like this series is three nothing. It feels like a blowout. The first two games were

both coin toss games. I mean, one shot the other way and it's two nothing Dallas coming back to Dallas. So that's why the way Jamie Ben acted to begin that game and the way the stars lost their cool so surprising to me because if say if Vegas had won the first two games going away I kind of would get it okay they score again early play by jack I able to set up March and so they get that early goal I could see maybe the stars getting frustrated and and letting their emotions get the better of them but I really didn't expect or understand why the stars blew their cool and basically threw the series away after two toss-up games and then one early goal and then they just lost their minds. I did not expect it at all. And I really do think that,

like, yes, Vegas played really well last night. But at the same time, I thought the stars lost that game. You could argue the stars lost it more than the Golden Knights won it. They just completely blew their top after two games that were so close, like they could have easily been up in the series. Yeah, I would think that that's probably actually why they lost their cool. I think it would be less likely if they were a couple blowouts. But, you know, I think the fact that they felt like they were right there and could have won games one or two, and now we're in this position that they'd show this incredible ruggedness at the beginning of the game

and clearly entered that game extremely frustrated, led by a captain that always plays on the edge. I mean, he's been doing this all playoff long. Let's not, let's like, you know, like I've seen stuff on Twitter. This was out of character of him. He is one of the dirtiest players in the league. He just is sneaky about it all the time, all the time. Cross checks guys in front of the net. They never call it.

Cross checks guys up high, never call it. And I think that he starts to think that he can get away with anything. He's been doing it for years, pitch 14 guys in the groin. He plays on an edge that borders on Beyond dirty. And last night, I mean, even just looking at some of the Twitter comments of Stars fans, like, well, maybe Mark Stone said something to him. him. Come on. Like, first of all, like one that justifies it and two, like, that's why he did it. Seconds into a game. No, he was just trying to, you know, think he was just trying to do what he

always does and thinks that he can get away with anything. And then for him to have all game to realize that he'd lost them that game and probably the series and then not stand up like a man, like a captain after the game and, you know, talk. Like, I just think it's ridiculous. And it's not because of potential supplemental discipline that he didn't want to put his foot in the mouth. We all know, we're going to have Ray Whitney on later. He's probably not going to say it. But we all know that those hearings, that what you say is not going to get you in further trouble, they usually have their mind made up.

You know, that was the one thing, Jesse, I don't know if you would agree with this, but when Petro Angelo was basically justifying his act on Drys Eidle by saying, well, they've been going after me all serious, but Department of Player's Safety doesn't seem to want to listen to that. He's lucky they didn't listen to that. Right. Because if they thought that it was a vigil. Yeah, it was vigilante justice. They would have dinged him for more. I've sat in that room a thousand times and talked to George Perrios and Damien, Ekavrieta and all these guys on how that works. And that would not have gone well for him. So I know I'm getting off the rails here a little bit. But I, you know, to me, Dallas, you know, were followed the lead of their captain yesterday.

And that was just a selfish, selfish act by him. And it cost them the series. So I guess you guys ignored the part where I said, just wait. We'll get to the ugly stuff in a second. Oh, yeah. Sorry. No, I'm just joking. Obviously, you're talking about it. There's still more ugly stuff to get to though. That's, I thought you were going to get to. But we do have to get to the, I know you guys were going to get into it because it set the tone for for the entire game. I mean, I saw one tweet about the cross check on Mark Stone, and it was one word, and it was I echo it. Why? Like, it just felt like a why. He's down. You hit him in the neck. There's no way you're ever getting away with that. And I really agree with Rousseau. If you're going to do something

like that, if you're going to cost your team the game and there's a certain letter on your sweater, you have to talk to the media. I'm sorry, you can't, you can't bolt out the back door. ugly moment number two max domi cross-checks nicholas hagg at the end of the second period in fact with 21.6 seconds left in the second period and that reason i know that is because they had to tack that on until after the intermission because fans lost their minds and were just littering the ice with debris garbage whatever they could get their hands on was on the ice and when it was all said and done uh aden hill had popcorn inside of his gloves and stuff jatsy you were were there. Like break this down, man. Like, what's, what's going on? Yeah, it was chaos. They, so, Domi boards. I don't know if they called it boarding or cross-checking, but it probably could have been either on Nick Hague. And then Hague, and like, I talked to Hague after the game and he's like, he thought it was hilarious. He's like, look, we were up for nothing. I wasn't going to get into it with him. And then his laugh was great. His laugh was perfect. He was laughing in Domi's face.

So then Domi went after him again, after. boarding him. Hague didn't even retaliate and Domi went after him and starts throwing punches and Hague is still laughing at him. And then as they're pulling Domi to the box, Hague is following Domi to the box and still laughing at him. And then he's like, I believe my lip reading isn't professional, but I believe he's saying smart play, smart play bud, and then gives him a thumbs up. And that thumbs up was good enough for a penalty on Hague. So they called a penalty on Hague. And the reason I explain all that is because the reason the stuff got thrown on the ice was the the referee announces the penalty to Hague, which should have been the most surprising thing of the entire because all he did was give him a thumbs up. I don't know if I've ever seen like, yes, he was taunting him as he went to the box.

But has there ever been a time where a guy wasn't taunted as he went to the box after a scrum like that? So they announced the pay the penalty to Hague and the fans all cheer. and then they announced the penalties to Domi, which everyone should have been expecting to happen. And that's when the fans lost their mind. Like they couldn't believe like, oh my God, we see why you got Hague there. But Domi, a penalty on him?

So that was what caused the fans to throw. There was like aluminum beer bottles and all kinds of stuff on the ice. They sent the players down the tunnels. And then they brought them back out for this third period. And that's when popcorn, a big bag of popcorn got thrown on Aden Hill. I asked him after the game. I was like, did you even realize that the popcorn hit you? And he's like, no, well, he's like, I felt something, but I didn't know what it was.

And I didn't want to look up because we saw stuff getting thrown. So I just kind of went to my net and I felt something. And then I shook my blocker out. And there was like popcorn falling out of it. He's like, what the hell? And by the way, Aiden Hill had the best line of the night. He stopped all 34 shots in the game. And then someone asked him at the podium about the popcorn hitting him.

And he goes, yeah, I guess everything was just hit me tonight. When Aiden Hill is talking shit to you, you know that things are going awry. I mean, let's be honest. Aiden Hill is one win away from a Stanley Cup final. This is number 30 in our 32 goalie, goalie tier in the athletic last season. You know, so clearly we got to revisit the. type of rankings for going into next year. Yeah, Domi acting acting like a donkey.

Fans acting unsophisticated in Dallas. Call me surprised. You know, it just doesn't, you know, I mean, look, there was a lot of pent-up frustration from that fan base who probably dropped hundreds of dollars for tickets and then they're down three-nothing within, you know, minutes of that game. So I get that. But for them to not realize that Domi should be penalized tenfold there and react that way, it doesn't shock me.

I mean, this is, I covered the Minnesota-Dalas series. Referees were getting death threats, you know, and had to be escorted into, into back to their hotel, into the arena, back to their hotel. The Wild were getting, having to have police escorts back because they were, they were getting threatened. They were, their bus was held in game one. And then, you know, other stuff as well. This is not a fan base that has been pretty, pretty proud of itself, I think,

throughout this postseason with the Twitter vitriol and things like that. And I think everything just came to a head yesterday. Coincidentally, in a conference final that they should be proud of. But that game just was so stunning yesterday for them to go home. You know, so many people asked me going into those games, you know, who has a better chance of coming back between Carolina and Dallas? And I all along thought, well, Dallas, because they're the ones that are returning home. And clearly that was not the case yesterday.

because in part because their captain entered that game so on the edge and it's just beyond unacceptable. It just, it really is. And he cost him maybe the series. You know what surprised, and I'll be quick with this, but you know what surprised me the most of anything was I've been a huge Jake Ottinger cheerleader. And I am the one that early in the playoffs, I was like, it's a thing.

Playoff, Jake Ottinger is a thing. Like, he is unstoppable in the playoffs. And the second half of that last series, he wasn't. And he did step up in game seven. So give him credit there. But then in this series, he hasn't been good enough. And it's so, we were just talking about Aiden Hill. Like, Aiden Hill has outplayed Jake Ottinger by a considerable margin in the series.

And if you're the stars, that can't happen. Like, you are relying on that guy to be one of your best players. And not all of them have been his fault, but like the William Carrier goal, the one he got pulled from. Sorry, you just can't get sniped backhand by William Carrier from Entight. Like, that can't happen if you're Jake O'Hon during the NHL playoffs and your team's down to nothing. He had to have been better for the stars to come back and win.

And if they're going to come back from down three nothing, it's going to, he's going to have to be the reason. Can we, before we continue, Rob, I mean, we've talked a lot about Dallas. You know, Vegas is, I mean, I'm just blown away by this entire postseason run, Jesse. You know, their numbers entering the playoffs were pretty middling. How surprised are you right now that they're in this spot where they have been really, really, in large part, dominant throughout the postseason? Yeah, I mean, so it's hard to answer because, yes, I would be surprised if you told me during the conference finals, but not if you told me Mark Stone's going to come back and be Mark Stone.

This team, for three years, he's been injured with this back and he's been in and out of the lineup. And when Mark Stone is in the lineup and looking like himself, it's a completely different hockey team. Not just because of how good of a player he is, but they just play differently when Mark Stone's out there. The guy cares more about hockey than any human being I've ever met. And it's contagious. Everyone sees the celebrations. And that's part of it. But just everything about him, the way he conducts.

himself, the way he goes about his business off dice, the way he lays in front of shots, even though he's a $9.5 million player and the captain, he leads this team and all the other players play better when Mark Stone is on the ice. Like, Chandler Stevenson's the biggest example, because that's his center that, like Stevenson was an all-star with Stone on the ice, and then Stone wasn't on the ice the second half the season, and Stevenson was pretty quiet. And then Stone comes back in the playoffs and suddenly Chandler-Stevenson's leading him in goals. He's right back to being that all-star player. So, I really do think that that's the reason they're here.

Obviously, Jack Eichol's been spectacular. The defense has been great. The goalies have stepped up. But I think all of that is kind of a side effect of Mark Stone being the guy he is and being back. And if you would have told me, yeah, this team hasn't been very good. That was all without Mark Stone on the ice. Early in the year when Stone was on the ice, they were dominant. I mean, they were killing teams.

But if you would have told me he's coming back, I would have said, no, I'm not that surprised that they're playing as well. That's one captain doing his job. The other captain is probably not be playing in game number four. You talked the thought in my head during that entire thing that Jesse was saying and voiced it, Rob. So well done. Thank you. And my impressed Russo's stat of the week, Aiden Hill and Laurent Broussaw, just the second time in NHL history, two goalies have a five-game winning streak in the same playoffs. The only two goals to do with Phil Meyer and Pete Peters in 1980.

But we got to move on, guys. No, no, no, no, Rousseau. Not that. No, but just think of the names that you just mentioned. I don't know. You're not mentioning freaking Ottinger and Vasilleschi. Yeah. Versa and Ayn Hill.

Yes, you're right. Like, it's, but it's crazy. The two, they both have five game winning streaks. Not over a three-year span in the same playoff season. There is another one, guys. We do have the Eastern Conference final, Carolina and Florida. Panthers looking for their first sweep ever. franchise history and looking at head to the finals for the first time since of course the year of

the rat in 1996 and listen to this one guys since they fell behind three one in that series against the Bruins they're 10 and one and do I just I'm going to say this it's Sergey Bobrovsky is playing on a level right now that we shouldn't be surprised because he's Sergey Bobrovsky, but we kind of are surprised because, well, we haven't seen this, Sergei, in a while. Russo, your thoughts on, is he, I mean, let's face, is he number one on the rankings right now for Kahn's Mike? Yeah, I mean, he was so bad at the end of the regular season, they started Alex Lyon this postseason. I mean, let's just say it like it is.

I mean, this is shocking to say the least. And he is in their heads, you know, I'd love to get Jesse's take from a goalie perspective. But when he stopped, like, guys, when he stopped nests on the brussey's, you know, when he stopped, like, guys, when he stopped nesting on the break away the other day and just gloved it down and didn't even like there was no momentum even moving them backwards like I'm like holy crap this guy is absolutely in his own again and when he who has played some great hockey in his career is saying this is the best that he's ever played to Henrik Lundquist on TNT you know this is the best he's ever played he's been remarkable obviously I thought Carolina was really good the other night but they cannot score right now at all and

that's why I'm just going to be really interested to see how tonight's game goes you know if they fall down early, do they just kind of roll over? Or are they going to show some immediate push and come out? Because I thought they started game three really well and just couldn't figure out a way to score. They held that Florida team 20 shots or some on. But right now, we are finally seeing what the loss has fetched and Koff and Patcheretti has done to this team and having a rusty terra Vinen right now, having Nietzsche's not playing well at all. Right now, they just don't have those finishers the way that Florida has gotten big goals from guys like Kachuk, especially at important times like the playoffs.

Like, excuse me, overtime. Yeah, I mean, Florida's been awesome and it's all, I mean, you guys know I'm going to get it to go Brobsky. I mean, the guy is unbelievable. Just from the numbers perspective, it's almost like hilarious looking at the goalie numbers for these playoffs because we talked about how great Aden Hill's been. He's got six goals saved above expected. Freddie Anderson, who has played a lot more games.

in his career, obviously, and it is a more established goal. He's been pretty good in these playoffs, too. He's got 6.2 goals saved above expected. Those are the two best that are still left in the playoffs. And then there's Sergei Bavrovsky, who has 19.5 goals saved above expected. A big night from Aden Hill last night ruined this staff that I had. But prior to that, Barbarowski had more goals saved above expected than the second, third, and fourth best goalies in the playoffs combined.

It's unbelievable what he's doing in these playoffs. And it's so awesome because if somebody who has followed by Brovsky's career and loved his game and heard all the detractors talk about how he never shows up in the playoffs, all those years where he carried awful Blue Jackets teams to the playoffs and they played him into the ground and he had no legs left by the time he got there. And then they didn't win playoff games and everyone blamed him for not showing up in the playoffs. To see this guy after everything he's been through the last couple years, not playing as well. To see him finally have the playoff run that like everyone knew he was capable

of for the last 10 years is awesome. So, so yes, he's a huge piece of it. And I think, I mean, Chuck deserves a ton of credit. Obviously, he scored huge goals. And the Panthers have a super talented team. It's not like this is a bad team. This isn't, this isn't your typical eight seed, not talented enough, but their goalie got hot so they won. Like this is a legitimately good Stanley Cup winning roster that all. also happens to have a incredible goalie playing his butt off. Yeah, I was reading Julian McKenzie's piece all talking about it. And he mentioned the gold save above expected, but also he's only played one game in this span,

11 game span where a safe percentage fell below 900. His safe percentage over the last 11 appearances is 944. He has stopped 110 of his last 111 shots. And the rest of the team feels like they're feeding off that. You know what I mean? When you know, all right, between the pipes, the blue ice is set. you feed off it. And this team,

they look like they have something to prove. They want them. We're not an 8C. This is not an 8C. We've been saying it for weeks. Like we let's stop treating them like they're this Cinderella team. They are a very, very good hockey team with very, very good players and a very, very good goalie. And they're doing something that a lot of people are surprised at, but they really shouldn't be.

Yeah. And I mean, just like I'm down here in South Florida right now, obviously, you know, as you'll, I'm sure, see you with Ray Whitney here. You know, I've covered this, this market a long, long time. And to see the heat and the Florida Panthers, both the win away from being A-seeds, hosting their respective, you know, finals down here at the same time is really unbelievable. You know, the other thing is that they're just built like a playoff team. They got a lot of, I mean, they bring that swagger, man. They are physical.

They're mean. They play with just on an edge that Carolina just does not have. are not rugged enough. They play soft in a lot of ways. And this is one thing they are going to have to address in the offseason. I got to think that Rod Brindamore is super distressed at the lack of pushback by this Carolina team. No, I mean, Chuck mauling, Koki Niami in game two. And they're doing nothing about it. He just goes and slumps over and picks up his stick, no pushback from any of his teammates. Ahjo gets hit in the head by Goudis the other night. No pushback by any of his teammates. In the Islander series, Matt Martin,

doing what Jamie Ben did, cross-checking him on the ice, Jordan Stahl on the ice, then sitting on him. And nobody comes to defend their captain. This is stuff that Carolina is when they do their autopsy on this season, assuming that they lose tonight or one of the next four games, they're going to probably have to address going into the offseason. Before we move on, Russo said Rusty Tera Vinen earlier. Sounds like some weird hockey sexual position,

but we're going to move on. I almost passed that when you said they have a rustic. Rusty Terrivine. I'm like, what the hell is that? So we could have our first team. I mean, like I always, you know, that's the one thing with the, like, you know, like when I looked at that Bobrowski save on him, which was pretty unbelievable. Let's be honest, you know, that was still a guy that just was back in this first or second game, putting it right in the middle of the net.

So that's what I meant by Rusty Teravinen. A rusty Tara Vinen. All right. Guys, before we go to break and get to Ray Whitney, we got a couple of big stories that came out of this week and both dealing with general manager news. Craig Conroy named the new general manager of the Calgary Flames. They went internal, guys. The last nine years, he's been the assistant GM of DeBrad Trill Living,

played over a thousand games in the NHL, over half of them for this very Calgary team. And that wasn't the only piece of news they made. Dave Nones is going to be the assistant general manager and senior vice president of hockey operations. And even Jerome McGill is going to be involved for, Now, as an consultant and an advisory role, your thoughts on Calgary's news. Jesse will start there. Yeah, I think it's a good hire. I think that, I mean, I don't know his hockey intellect super in-depth,

but I know that everything I hear is that he's a good guy. Everyone likes him. And he's super, super seasoned as an assistant GM. I think a lot of times you get guys that don't have the experience, like, what, 2014, I think was when he was the assistant GM in there. He has seen. He has seen the job done for a very long time. I think he's well prepared for for this role. Whereas I think a lot of times, especially recently, it seems like some some less experienced guys have gotten hired in roles and kind of you just learn on the job. So I don't, I don't think he's in that position. I like to hire from an experience standpoint. Yeah. And I want to cover the flames of Jerome McGillenla and Craig Conroy are both going to be at the leadership roles. And getting to

quote them on an everyday basis. I think, you know, Gindler is Gindla. classiest guy like I mean I mean I think any wild fan knows how much I I uh you know love that dude and then um and then Conroy is just one of the great guys to ever talk to as a as a beat writer I made me shocked like yesterday when they like Conroy comma 51 comma I'm like 51 I remember covering him like yesterday he's been out of the league for 12 years or something it's just crazy um but uh I I think it's a good move uh I I I I I I actually like it a lot. I mean, I just think that somebody that understands the fabric that clearly there's just going to be an unbelievable respect level in terms of the players in the room. And after what just went on with Daryl Sutter were clearly there were a lot of players that wanted out of Calgary. And now I've got to think are going to be rescinding those trade requests. And we'll see. I mean, obviously they get some big news, big deals to get done guys like Lynn Holm and things like that. But I think it's a great move. And it'll be interesting now to see what happens with Tree Living. Yeah, and task number one, finding a new coach now for Craig Conroy.

And of course, the other big news in GM land, the Leafs and Kyle Dubus parting ways. The circumstances of that separation still very murky. We're hearing a couple different things. Brendan Shanahan went into great detail in the way he saw it happen. Kyle Dubus released a statement yesterday and just said onward. Now, if you remember, guys, he had said in this postseason press conference, It's either I'm the GM of the Leafs or I'm the GM nowhere at least for a year. But we're hearing the penguins have been given permission to speak to him.

The Sends might be interested. Your thoughts on Leafland and do we see Kyle Dubas unemployed for long and maybe going back on what he said at the presser? Russo. No, I think that he'll be employed pretty quickly here. Clearly he wanted to eventually come back to Toronto. So now that to me says he's reinvigorated, which means that he's going to want to probably work right away somewhere else as long as his family is cool with moving and all that type of stuff. But, you know, it's like I said on last week's show. I mean, and it's not like I had any

any inside information, but I said on this show last week that I wondered how Brendan Shanahan and Maple Leafs and Sports Entertainment, Tannenbaum and all these guys were going to, we're going to digest a press currents where he publicly said that he was not all in and, and, and, voice burnt out, burnout and voice that this was a stressful time for his family. But, you know, and I just wondered if you wanted him back and then you hear him coming out publicly saying that, you have to be all in if you're a Leafs GM. And I just wondered how they would take that. And clearly they didn't take it well. And then when he turns around a couple days later and says, all right, now I'm reinvigorated, but here's a new, here's a counter proposal on the

contract offer that you guys gave me. I just think that that didn't sit well with Brennan Chanahan, clearly. Yeah, I agree with Michael that he's probably not going to be unemployed for long. There are a bunch of teams looking for GMs. And he, I mean, you can argue about the playoff success, but the GM's job is to build a talented roster and he built a super talented one in Toronto. So not surprising that the teams are calling him and they're lining up quick. It's going to be fascinating to see where he goes and what he does there because of the like new school approach that he's kind of credited with. in Toronto, like it's going to be, especially if it's a place like Pittsburgh, where there are a lot of

established players and it's not building it from the ground up. It's going to be interesting to see what happens to do this. We're going to be hearing a lot about what happened even, you know, in that departure. It's just so murky right now and little tidbits keep getting, you know, sprinkled out, so we're going to have to wait and see there. You won't have to wait and see and listen to Ray Whitney, Stanley Cup champion, former Hurricane Panther, the Wizard. It's coming up after the So don't go anyway. Well, boys, our next guest played over 1,300 games for eight different teams in the NHL, won a Stanley Cup back in 2006.

The Wizard. Ray Whitney, joining us on the athletic hockey show. Ray, thank you all much for doing this. Yeah, guys, my pleasure. I know it's an early morning, but I got kids, so I'm up anyway. Oh, we really appreciate it. Everybody's up early. Everybody's loving playoff hockey.

And it's funny, I know you're working for the league now. We'll get to that in a minute. but your career's fingerprints seem to be all over this final four. I mean, you played for three of the four teams. You played four guys like Paul Maurice with guys like Rod Brindamore and Jamie Ben. You want a cup with Carolina. I know you're not allowed to root because you work for the league, but is it tough not watching these games and cheering for a whole bunch of guys that you know?

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Like you said, I didn't just realize until now. Yeah, you're right. Three of the four I played four. And that just means I was basically a suitcase or a lot of. my, a lot of my time, but certainly I think Carolina

and no winning a championship of the team kind of puts your, your loyalties to that organization. Obviously, Roddy was a big part of that. I played with him. But then you look at Florida, I played with Eric Stahl as well, and, you know,

Mo coached me there for a couple of years. So I've had good memories from both organizations and Dallas finishing my career there, but, you know, it's bittersweet, but I think if I had to go pointing my finger to one direction, it would probably still be Carolina. Ray, obviously I covered you down here in Florida,

and you had such a consistent career both with Florida and Carolina, I think 100 goals almost for both teams in four years. But here down in Florida, you became such a fan favorite right away. You brought in during a tough 97-98 season, but top 30 goals. Then you were around during that 98.2,000 season in a pre-loser-point era. To me, one of the best teams I still ever covered, Unfortunately, you went down in that series against New Jersey. But we've seen this arena packed with passionate Panther fans.

And I think during the years of losing, a lot of people started to make fun of this franchise, think that they didn't have a fan base that could support it. I'm sure it actually doesn't surprise you that if you give a reason for the fans down here in South Florida to show up, that they actually do and know this sport and love this sport. Yeah, for sure, Mike. I mean, it's obviously not a traditional hockey market. So when we went down there with the new building and sunrise, I know I finished the time in Miami.

I played the last season down in Miami Arena first. But the crowds were good when you start losing. I think as a franchise, if you don't have success and continue success in a place like Miami where, let's be honest, there's a lot of things they can do. It's not like you're stuck in the frozen north or just begging for a hockey game. So what you're seeing now is not surprising.

I think there are loyal fans down there. and there's a lot of excited fans, but giving them something like this to be excited about is probably what's going to make them come out even more. And I think you're seeing it now. It's a great place to play. It's obviously a fun place to play. But like I said, there's a lot of things to do in South Florida. So if you're not winning as a hockey team, there are other options for them to do.

But right now the team is exciting to watch. You got Matthew Bichuk down there who's really bringing a little bit of everything for them in terms of not just goals and production, but he gets that pesky little. attitude out there and he brings something that hockey fans, if you're a hockey fan, really love it. And if you're with that side, you love it. If you're obviously on the other side, you don't. But he's a big product down there, I think, right now for them.

But the success of the team obviously is what would drive, I think, most people down there when there's many options that you can do in South Florida. Let's be honest, there's lots to do down there. And it's a great place to live, obviously. But I think like any, you know, market, if you have success, people are going to come out and get excited about it. And then having Matthew Kuchukh down there right now, not only the big goals that he's scoring,

but his energetic kind of under your skin kind of play is also gets people fired up. And obviously it gets their team fired up. But he's got a great knock for scoring big goals. He's got a great knock for changing the pace of a game just by giving a guy a stinky glove, giving a guy a punch in the head, chewing on that damn mouth guard like it's a big piece of gum. I mean, he's a fun guy to watch and he's a guy to get excited about. And I think down there, they're going to have a great time here for the next few years with him.

Ray, Rousseau loves when I throw out stats. He mentioned about 100 goals apiece for those two teams. I looked it up. Carolina, he scored 119 goals, Florida 97. So you were closer. I was close. I mean, I could have kept taking the empty nuts on me, so I couldn't quite get to 100. Ray, you mentioned Kachuk and Bubba.

Barovsky is obviously the big story in Florida. But I'm curious, is there anything else you've noticed in this team? Like, they're so talented that we've been saying for weeks now, they're not a typical 8 seed. This team is talented. But it took some time to get this team to click. Like, what else have you noticed in these playoffs that's really got that team going aside from the obvious Bobrovsky and Kachuk scored in big goals? Yeah, that's a great point. Jesse.

I think nobody in the hockey world would say they're an 8 seed team coming into it. I think they, when you make trades like that. and you get rid of guys like Huberto and we go. I mean, Chuck coming in, it's sometimes when you're adding elements, it takes a little bit of time for you guys. I'll find your niche and your actual role

and adjust to it and accept it. And there's no way that's an eight seat team, especially after the year they had prior. So that is not surprising to me. What's surprising, you're not surprising so much, but what I really notice is they're calmness that they're playing with their playing so loose,

like they're smiling, they're having fun, they're giggling on the bench, And this is in a fourth overtime still. How they're playing as a group is it's almost like a machine. They each know what their role is. They each know what their jobs are. They're doing it with some fun.

They're doing it together. You see every scrum, they're all in there together. They're all getting their gloves dirty and they're supporting each other. So I know Bob and Matthew are the ones that are driving it, I guess. But you look at Montor's play in the back end and you look at guys. Longberg who they bring that energy and they all seem to find what they're doing. Even my old man, Eric Stahl, who has been the number one center most of his life, is now finding a role as a fourth line center.

And what a luxury for Paul Maurice to have when that's going to be your fourth line center where you can, you know, have him on the ice at any point. So it's just the depth is impressive, but it's the looseness that they're playing with is amazing to me that I guess if you're kidding as an eighth seed, they're thinking there's no pressure. but now by the conference finals, I think there's got to be some pressure on everybody, but I still see them playing with a lot of nerves right now.

I think it's just amazing how relaxed they are. Ray, got to get into your role with the league's department of player safety and working with George Perros. And I honestly don't mean this in a disrespectful way, but you talk about two different kinds of players in their NHL careers. I mean, you Google your name, the word classy comes up nonstop. George Peros is still appearing in people. people's nightmares from his playing days.

But when you're trying to make a tough decision, does that help the balance to have a Ray Whitney who's not used to, you know, having to deal with certain things like that? I don't ever remember you being a dirty player or having a dirty player in your career versus a George Peros, who, like I said, is a scary human being. Yeah. George on the ice was scary.

Yes. Anybody who knows George off the ice knows he's truly one of the best gentlemen that we have in our game. And he's a smart guy. obviously, I don't know if you guys know, you went to Princeton. He is a very smart guy, and he knows the rules book, rule book really well. But it's a tough job, guys.

I'll be honest with you because there's always going to be half of the world that doesn't like the decision you make regardless. So you have to have thick skin a little bit with it. But for me, you're right. I look at the game a little differently than Georgia. I was the guy getting the hits more than taking or giving them. So I take most of our decisions, I take it from the point of view of the guy getting hit. What did he do to, you know,

Did he make a bad choice to put him in that position to get hit? And you'd be surprised guys how many times that George is at a suspension where I'm not at a suspension for, I'm more of a guy who looks at the guy getting hit or the guy who received the hit as opposed to the guy giving it, because that's the part of the game I played. I didn't, you know, I didn't have a lot of hits in my career. But guys turning their backs as a defense mechanism now thinking they won't get hit is a problem for us in the league right now. And people always go, he hit him in the numbers, he hit him from behind. And I'm like, well, did he or did he turn when he shouldn't have turned?

And was he aware of his surroundings? I mean, some of these open ice hits, I didn't get hit in 23 years. And they open ice like that. So a lot of it for me, I put on the on the players getting hit as opposed to the guys giving it. So with head contact, though, in the pace and the speed of the game, you're always going to have head contact just about every hit. So it's a tough job. It really is.

And we're trying to be as consistent as we can. But understanding that, you know, I'm not going to make anybody else. happy. And I mean, obviously the actions last night by Jamie Ben, we're going to have to deal with at some point here today. So, you know, it's a tough job, but it's an important job. But certainly, I think George does a really great job of doing it. It's not an easy one. By the way, you had 167 hits in 1330 games. I just looked it up while you were talking. Those are a vicious ones. Hey, Wizard, two things. Can you tell everybody about the process? I've actually shadowed George Perris and Damien and Department of Player Safety probably about six times.

It's a really fascinating job. I think that all fans should actually get that opportunity to watch how everything is clipped. Talk about the process today. The way I understand it is essentially you will wake up today or even last night to an email that just says with the clip, the actions of the game and bullet point and thoughts. And that's how you give it. And the other question, if you could relay everybody your first ever conversation with George Paris, I understand from talking to George over the years. It happened during warm-ups before a game while you guys were both playing. Yeah. Yeah, I'll get to that one first. George just had his twin girls and I happened to talk to my wife, Bridget, you know,

before I went to the game. And she happened to mention it. I don't know how she knew. And we really don't know each other. But, you know, Big George is stretching at the red line and eyeballing everybody at our zone, actually, you know, and I don't stretch. If you guys know for watching me, I don't stretch. I basically just try to goof around in front of the camera or mess with people getting interviewed more than I do stretching. So I went down and just stretch for pretending to stretch for a couple minutes and said, hey, big guy, you know, congratulations on the twins. And he looked at me like, man, this guy's talking to me.

I've never had somebody talking about, you know, on the red line before. So he didn't really know what to do. He goes, well, thanks, I guess. And then as the game went on, I realized, well, maybe that will make sure he doesn't take a good running today. So, you know, you show some compassion or something. and empathy for somebody and congratulate them on something like that. Hopefully he doesn't take a good run out of you.

And to get to your other point with the process, yeah, we knew last night we were going having, George will send those clips like you said. Mike, they get clip to us. They get sent out to us within probably 10 or 15 minutes of each hit. We'll get it right away and then George will send out an email asking for our thoughts on it if it's something that he's looking at closely. So then you send out what your thoughts are on it. and then at the end of the night,

you'll decide whether we're going to move forward with it. So by the end of the night, we know we're going to have a hearing or not the next day. So I wake up this morning knowing at some point we're going to have one. And then we'll move on from, you know, move on from there. The process is quite interesting for those who don't have, never heard of how we do it. You know, the player gets on and talks,

the general manager gets to talk. The agent talks about the character, the PA gets on and then make sure everything is okay. And then our side gives our opinion on it. And then, you know, we get off and we deliberate together as a group. So it's a big process. There's a lot of people involved. And like I said, it's an important part of our game, but not one that makes everybody happy.

I understand. Semi related to that. It's a conversation we were kind of having in the press box here in Dallas last night. Not specifically about Ben's particular situation. But I'm curious, we were wondering, how much does what time, what part of the game, the hit happens. How much does that play into it? Because we were comparing it to Petrangelo's,

and Petrangelo's slash on dry siddle happens at the very end of the game. He gets the game misconduct, but he barely gets tossed out for any of it. And then obviously Ben missed the entire game. So not specifically this situation, but in general, how much does, how much of a factor does that play in the decision making? Well, it can do into a little bit of a decision making.

Like you said, he basically missed the entire game. I think it only happened, one minute and a half into it or two minutes into it. Basically the whole game is, you know, the argument could be made that that's already a one game suspension right there. So that can come into effect that, yes, we can use that if we want to, but generally we try to stick to the act itself and where did the act fall for, you know, prior incidents and where were we on those ones. So we'll probably go to that more than anything. But you're right, though, Jesse, can use that. Atchangelo's at the end, I know it didn't mean anything at the end, but which is why you got the next.

next night. But we can't use it if you want, whether he's George decides or not, that'll be up to him. Last one before we let you go and I'll be real quick with this one. Ray, do you foresee a time where the player's injury isn't so important in deciding the suspension time? And I think Patrangelo was one we discussed on the show because had he broken Leon Drysaddle's arm, obviously the suspension would probably be a lot bigger. But the intent seemed to be pretty obvious to a lot of people. Do you foresee a time

where maybe that's not as important? No, no, I don't. I think, you know, there's a lot of acts out there that the speed of our game, but any time you have, you know, a so-called weapon in your hand and it's flying around.

I think you can always, there's always going to be some kind of injury that happens or can happen. And if it's a, you know, if it's an infraction, it's, you know, like intentional, like you said, like Petros,

if there is, is a big injury in that obviously it's got to change the suspension outlook on it just because there was some intent on on the play so i don't see right now wherever i really don't see that being a fact i think you always got to take the injury into consideration because you know a lot of acts you know a lot of acts can be great injury regardless um and i and i think that if it's intentional you got to take an injury into effect a little bit more. Ray, so no,

I don't think so. Ray, just lastly, I just want to ask you about your career. You know, I always tell people I've never, you know, I've covered hundreds and hundreds of players that love to win.

I would put you on the list of number one or two on the players that most hated to lose. You were, you were a miserable SOB after a loss. I still remember a little battle you and I got into after a 9-1 loss in Toronto. so with like three games left in the season. How much you think that drove you during an incredibly successful career?

And then when you were on that mountaintop in 2006, lifting that cup, it had to just be the most elated experience of your life. Yeah, yeah. And I do remember that, Mike. It wasn't, I didn't have one just with you either. I think I've had a few effus with a lot of them.

And all with respect. But you're right. I've always been a sore loser. Asked my wife, asked my mom, ask my kids. I'd never like to lose. I don't like losing at all. And it's probably what kept me in the league as long as I was as a little guy,

especially back in the 90s. I have a big competitive drive to me. I'm a very competitive guy, even though, you know, when you look at my hits and my penalty minutes, you're thinking he's not, but there's different ways to show that competitiveness. And that's competing with pucks and winning board battles and playing as hard as you can all the time. And so I always tried to do that and I always hated to, I hated to lose whether it was 9-1, whether it was 3-2 overtime. I just, if the music's not on after the game, it really bothered me.

And I got better, Mike, after we won, like I'm better of accepting some losses a little bit better. But when you do win, especially we won in game seven of the finals, the elation, it's something you can't even describe to people, which is why the intensity of getting the, that they're so exciting. It's surprising me is how well Florida is playing relaxed right now because it's hard to get there, guys. It really is 23 years. I got there one time and it's hard to do

and I got better at the losing part later in my life, but I certainly was a mean little bastard. You're right when I was around you. I apologize for that few years later. Trust me, you have nothing to apologize. I used to respect this shit out of you for it.

And honestly, I mean, you're still one of my favorite players I've ever covered, absolutely hilarious. And not to mention, just a great, great goal score. I mean, it was a pleasure to watch it. And trust you, trust me, Ray. Jesse and I have a few moments with Russo on a weekly basis. So you're not. You guys are coming out of the law.

Absolutely. We absolutely are sympathetic to your situation. Ray, thanks so much for do this. Thanks for getting up bright and early to talk to us. Enjoy the rest of the playoffs. And say hi to Jamie Ben for us. I'll get you later. Rapid fire coming up after the break, so don't go anywhere.

All right, boys, my favorite time of the show and yours, Rapid Fire. Topic number one, whoever runs the coyote's Twitter account has pretty much lost their minds. They made a lot of news on social media this week. They tweeted out a poll asking fans where they should build their new arenas, at Scottsdale's, at Chandler's, at Gilbert. Fans started bringing up places, of course, like Houston and Kansas City and Milwaukee. This is just a bad look, and it just continued on and on. They were posting Rick Astley, you know, video links.

And what is going on with the social media account in Arizona or so? Yeah, and they also had the meme where they had the, like, coyote's front office trying to get rid of the admin and the two buses. So it clearly, it felt like they were either hacked or had gone rogue. Apparently, it's neither. So the way that I understand is that the coyote's social media person just recently left the organization. So the person running the Twitter account is Alex Morello's Jr.'s friend. So basically the owner's son's buddy is essentially running, has the keys to the Twitter account right now.

It's the way that I understand it. I wouldn't say that I've done a lot of reporting into it, but I definitely wanted to find out if they were hacked. And that's why I made a couple calls. and yeah, it's interesting to say the absolute least, and I can't, it isn't a good look. I can't imagine the league is super happy about it, especially from the owner's son's, like, buddy when the owner, I think the end game here is that eventually they're going to make the coyotes sell the team.

And so, like, that's the other really interesting angle here. It's just very bizarre. I thought it was funny that they wanted to, to run a poll about where they should play when they literally just had a vote in Arizona about where they should play. And the boat did not go well for them. I think they should stay away from polls for a while.

Rapid fire topic number two after Joe Villano got suspended at the World Championship for five games for stomping on Nino Nita Rider. Evander Kane took to Twitter and said, this is why fighting in hockey is needed. It discourages ideas like this and helps police the game effective. disgusting play to watch, especially after my injury this year.

Embarrassing. Thoughts on the tweet, Jesse. Yeah, I disagree with Evander Cain's tweet. I don't think you need fighting to get rid of this. I think the suspensions need to be harser. It's hard to say what he deserves because that's a tournament. If you do that in an NHL game, you're done for the season. I don't care if it's opening night of the first game of the season.

If you do that in an NHL game, you're done for the year. See you next October. Yeah, I agree totally with Jesse. Like, I don't, like, like, I, I, what, it's funny because I agree with Vander that this, there's no place for this in the game. Right. Um, but let's be honest, this could easily happen in the NHL. It has happened in the NHL and fighting is technically allowed in the NHL. So clearly it's, you know, um, you know, fighting doesn't inhibit everything on the ice.

Dirty stuff still happens. Um, you know, we saw Jamie Ben cross check Mark Stone in the neck last night. You know, and fighting is allowed in the NHL. So, you know, I think what, what of Anders saying is that if you stop on somebody, you should then have to get your ass kicked is essentially what he said. Which is true. Yeah, this is not even close to a hockey player. Right.

But what's more terrifying for a hockey player? Having to fight a guy and maybe eat two or three punches, which isn't really that big a deal in the end. Like, do I want to eat two or three punches right now? No. But missing 70 hockey games is a lot bigger consequence. They need this. To me, they're more afraid of suspension. than they are of having to fight.

Yeah, because it hits them in the wallet. And finally, rapid fire topic number three guys, Oilers GM, Ken Holland had his end of the year press conference. He's got one year left on his deal, says, of course, he's going to honor it. But as far as his long-term plans, quote, I don't invest in green bananas. I think we know what that means.

Should they cut ties now if you've got a GM saying, I'm not going to be here for the long haul, Jesse? So I actually think it gives them an interesting, situation where they can take advantage of this. If Ken Holland knows he's going to be gone, I mean, he's got such a vast knowledge of information and stuff he's been through. Why not bring the new GM in now

and let him work with Holland for the rest of the year and let that transition happen? There can be so many benefits to that rather than getting rid of him now and hiring somebody or waiting until he's done and then trying to hire someone. I think you can take advantage of a unique situation where you've got a very experienced GM that knows he's on his way out. He can help the new guy coming in.

I think you can take advantage of it. Yeah, I mean, this is not like the Kyle Dubus situation. This isn't a 37-year-old. I mean, this is Ken Holland saying I'm in the last year my deal, and I'm 67. We're getting to the end of my line here after an incredible career, by the way. So I agree with Jesse. I think this is a time where now you just kind of set the table for the future, not unlike David Boyle.

The only difference was that David Poil kept it under the, the wraps we're we're now expecting that Ken Holland is going to fulfill the last year of his deal and sort of set the table for the future. So I agree whether it's hiring somebody now or getting ready, you know, or, you know, sort of, you know, just using the year to find that next era parent. Absolutely. Guys, this is usually a part where I ask you what you're working on. We know what you're each doing a series. So this is my order to you. Great show. Go get some sleep for your next assignment. I want to let everybody else know. I mentioned it earlier. If you want to actually see our ugly mugs, head to our YouTube page. It's YouTube.com slash the athletic hockey show.

I want to let you know about some other things you can listen to. Dallas Aikins was Craig Custens and Sean Gentilly's guest this week on the Athletic Hockey Show USA. Be sure to check it out. He was awesome. And of course, the athletic hockey show continues Thursday with Ian Mendez and down goes brown. Big thanks to Ray Whitney for coming up bright and early and talking to us. I want to Thank Russo for inventing the term Rusty Terra Vinen and Jesse for doing what Jesse does. I am Rob. We'll see you next week.