The Athletic Hockey Show - Golden Knights are one win away from their first Stanley Cup, Matthew Tkachuk a question mark for the Panthers in Game 5

Episode Date: June 12, 2023

Julian McKenzie is joined by guest co-host Mark Lazerus, and things may get heated in the first five minutes of the show. Then, with the Golden Knights being one win away from the first Stanley Cup, a discussion about which player has contributed most to the team's success. Next, on the other side, if the Panthers can again dig themselves out of a 3-1 deficit, and questions surrounding Matthew Tkachuk's health for Game 5. To wrap up, Julian and Mark award their Conn Smythe Winner of the Week, and dig into the goalie trade board for Multiple Choice Madness.Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowNuts.com is offering new customers a free gift with purchase and free shipping on orders of $29 or more at Nuts.com/hockey23.For 15% off MudWtr go to mudwtr.com/hockeyshow and use code HOCKEYSHOW to support the show and get a discount!Go to dave.com/nhlshow to sign up for an ExtraCash account and get up to $500 instantlyGo to grammarly.com/tone to download and learn more about Grammarly Premium’s advanced tone suggestions. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Welcome to the Monday edition of The Athletic Hockey Show. I'm Julian McKenzie. Normally you hear Ian Mendez's voice. The reason why he's not here this week, I think he still needs time to process the Bill Murray and police dating rumors. They've been a big shock to everyone. And I think Ian just needs a little bit more time to process that news.

So he's taking a seat. and Mark Lazarus, friend of the Monday show, is tapping in in his place. Marky Mark, what's up, man? Julian, I'm glad to see you here. I wasn't sure if you would be done spraying champagne on all the other 38 million Canadians after some guy wanting mid-level...

Okay, all right, all right, right. Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. Stop, stop. I understand the show is called the athletic hockey show. And we are going to get to some hockey topics because the Stanley Cup final is on. Game 5 will be Tuesday in Vegas, of the journalism contingent has been making their way from Florida to Vegas.

But we have a hater on the podcast, people. Not a hater. I'm a big golf guy. You are a hater. I'm not a hater. I am a bemused observer that anytime, look, look, I'm the designated American here on the Monday show. And the stereotype of Americans is we're jingoistic monsters who will just chant USA, you know, when we see a red, white, and blue truck go by.

But I'm telling you. man, there's nothing like the entire country of Canada the instant any athlete does anything of consequence. Like you win like a bronze medal in like a ski jumping event and you're throwing parades. I love it. It's adorable. It's adorable. But people were tweeting out last night that this was one of the greatest moments in Canadian sports history. Brother Mark, brother Mark, let me at least apply context. Can I please apply context here? Please. The RBC Canadian Open in golf took place this past weekend. The final round occurred on the Sunday. Nick Taylor, a Canadian, not only wins the RPC Canadian Open, wins it in a four-hole playoff and drains a 72 and a half foot putt to win the

open. It was awesome. It was open that Canadians consider, Canadian golfers consider as the fifth major of the tournament. Well, that's freaking delusional. Canadians have not won, a Canadian has not won that tournament in 69 years. That is not a nice stat. And you need to tell me that after all that happened and that that was the longest put. How many of you knew who Nick Taylor was? How many of you knew who Nick Taylor was? I knew Nick Taylor was. That doesn't demean the moment by any stretch of the imagination. 72 and a half feet. That's the longest putt he's made. That's the longest put made by anyone all week, and that won the damn open in a playoff. Look, I watched most of the fourth round.

That's not one of the biggest moments in Canadian sporting history. History. I'm not saying it's bigger than the golden goal. I'm not saying it's bigger than Canada winning a gold medal in women's soccer. But this is what this is a pretty big moment though. It was a really cool moment, but there's something over the top about the way Canada celebrates the smallest things. And this is not a small thing.

But the fact that you do this every time there's like the most minute thing you win, then it becomes kind of funny. It's not minute though. It's a big deal. Is it? Yes. It's a mid-level PGA event.

It is not the fifth major in anyone's eyes. It's the country's open and a Canadian won it and he did it in the most exciting way possible. It's a big deal. It's, it's, it, I won't, I will grant you that it's a big deal. It was celebrated like world people. Peace had been achieved. Okay, whoa, I don't think we're going to go that far.

Just because Adam Hadwin, the golfer who got tackled by a security card. Which was awesome, too, by the way. That was pretty hilarious to see. Just because that happened, does it mean that we're all like, oh, man, world peace has been achieved? The war, mission accomplished. No one put up a mission accomplished banner at the golf tournament course. This is like, you know, you know how there's this weird sect of Canadians that think Paul Henderson deserves to be in the Hall of Fame because of one exhibition goal?

if I agree with that. Now Nick Taylor is going to be in the world Golf Hall of Fame because of one pot. Like this is, why are you being a hater? Why can't you just let this book? Because it's funny. Why did you let this book?

Everyone says American to these brainless jingoists. And I just want the world to know that everyone is a brainless jinguist. Oh my God. You need to stop. You need to stop. Okay. Just would it seem like we were agreeing with each other

off the fact of Colorado Avalanche and all the small figs should be their thing. Oh, yeah. You did want me about that over the weekend. Yeah, you did not get the taste of what I got. Oh, my God. I was looking at your mentions. It was so like, I got like literally 300-something quote tweets to that tweet,

saying that I was like the worst personal role that I didn't like fun. I'm just like, you do it. And everyone's like, yeah, yeah, it's fine. You know, man. After I put up that tweet, so what you, I know you were, you rewarded me and so I'm like, well, we like Juliet. And I was like, that's not a nice thing to say. And then I saw how nice the responses were.

And I was like, oh, okay. Hey, you know what, I see it. For like a week and a half after that, every time all the small things played an arena, I would get tagged by like 100 people. Better Colbar Glasers. They're violating the blink 182 accords. Well, why don't Florida Panthers,

as we actually segue into hockey here, why don't the Florida Panthers co-opped my own worst enemy by lit? That's at least twice I've heard it this postseason and the fans were getting behind it. I think it was done the Islanders game too, but that song is played in more hockey arenas than stomping Tom Collins is.

I swear to God, I've never covered a hockey game. Connors, not Collins. Sorry, that's my bad. I've never... There's your jingoism. He's Canadian. You won't even bother to say names right. That's how much I don't give a damn about us.

Drake sucks. Can I just drop this in? Can't cancel the show? Daniel Lehman, our producer for today. I'm done with the show. I'm done. I'm done. But no.

I'm sorry. It ain't so. I will not go. Carry me. I'm done. What is this blasphemy here? When did this turn it to Canada versus America? It's a hard day, man.

It is a hard day, but you don't have to make it any more harder than it's supposed to be. I like poke in the polar bear. Clearly, yes. It's funny, you mentioned the Litt song, my own worst enemy. I swear that's been played at every single hockey game I've ever covered in every single arena in the league. Somebody should just claim it. And then once they claim it, you'll have like 30 other fan, 31 other fan bases that are all mad that, we did that seven years ago. And then we can have another all the small things thing.

And I won't tweet about it. Here's the thing. I think hockey fans, when you look at, especially when you compare them to like soccer fans, and I'm not including the hooliganism here. But if there's one thing hockey's missing, it's for teams and fans to have their own thing in terms of chance and songs and something that's super original. So I think when we both feel that the Avalanche should co-opt all the small things, or in this case the Fort of Panthers, who are in the Stanley Cup finals, and see, they're throwing rats on the ice. I love that.

They've been doing that when they did that in the 96th Cup final against Colorado. That was awesome to see. Like, I want more teams to have their thing. So I think when you suggest that, like, a team should co-op the song and have it be their thing, I don't, I get why maybe some people are a little butt hurting. They're like, hey, man, that's gatekeeping. cool. It's awesome. It's not gamekeeping. It's like, it's come up with your own.

Yes. Just come up with your own. Yes. And it's totally possible to do that. The cover of the athletics book, you know, wrapping up Peter Ball's terrific coverage of that that playoff run was carry me home or all. It was something like that. I mean, like that's how, that's how, you know, intrinsically related that Blink 182 song is with the avalanche.

They win. They got it. Other people did it, but they got it. So come up with your own. It'd be great if every, you know, You know, my, my soccer knowledge is limited to Ted Lassau, but like, and, uh, and, uh, the White Lotus. But the songs they sing are really weird, random, like pop songs from the 60s, right? Like, like, I'm blowing bubbles or whatever. Like, that's, they do, they do variations on that.

And then they do come up with their own original songs. Yes, for the most part. Like, that's, it's fun. It's cool. Like, like, when the Blackhawks opened the season in, uh, in Berlin, uh, they played a preseason game, or they opened the season in Prague, but they played a preseason game in Berlin against Ice Baron. And their fans were sitting there singing the entire game.

Like, they weren't even watching the game. They were just having fun. And all these chants and songs, it's like, all right, maybe don't do it with the entire game. Maybe watch a little bit. But, like, that's fun. And it creates a unique atmosphere. And, you know, and the red wings are throwing an octopus and the panthers are

throwing a rat. And the islanders are chanting, yes, yes, yes. Like, come up with your own thing, right? That's what's fun. man. If I had enough money to, you know, partaking the expansion fee and I was building like the 33rd or 34th NHL team and I'm trying to figure out what the fan culture is looking like, I'm looking at some of those European hockey teams and how they go about cheering on their teams. Like, it's cool. You get the little T-Fos up in the crowd. Like, I really feel that

culture should be changed for the better when it comes to watching games in North America. because it's kind of sad sometimes. It's going into arenas and people are just quiet. Well, part of that is the corporate culture of the arena set because they're the only ones that can afford the tickets. Like if average people could afford tickets to hockey games, I think the environment's in a lot of these arenas in Chicago and Toronto and New York in particular, where it's like 500 bucks to sit in the lower bowl,

I think you'd have a more engaged crowd. But yeah, like, and it's got to happen organically, right? Like, you can't just be like, okay, this year we're doing this. It can't be like the social media person tweets. Everybody at three minutes into the second period, we're all singing this song. Like, it's got to happen organically, but it's not that hard for that to happen. You know, you can kind of like subtly nudge your fans in a direction and start a thing like that. But the more organic it is, the deeper the roots will be and the more fun it'll be.

And then you have your thing. Like, that's, we should, we want more of that. And that's all I was saying in my tweet where I got eviscerated for was, come up with your own thing. Don't just, Colorado one. They get that now. They might not have been the first, but they coined it now. It's theirs. Come up with something different.

There's a billion great songs out there that are fun to sing along to. Billion great songs, billion great chance you could do. That's the point we were trying to make. So if you want to get mad at us, go on our Twitter, I guess. Everybody got mad at me. Someone accused me of gatekeeping. Yeah. Yeah, that's what is.

So I can't sing a song that I like. It's a popular song that came out 23 years ago. I can't take a song that I like. The NHL should be. tire all of these songs at every other rink? Is that what you're saying? Is that, is that it? Is that what you're saying?

Let's look at Vegas. Let's look at the Cup final matchup as it is now and try to relate the point that we were trying to make earlier. Were we trying to make a point earlier? I don't know really at this point. It's Monday. Vegas, one went away from winning the Stanley Cup, game five on Tuesday. I would love to know from your vantage point mark as much as you have watched because it is

offseason for a couple people and people do like to take breaks and stuff. any sense from your vantage point or at least from what you've seen, who do you think is the biggest reason why the Golden Knights have reached this point that they're on, on the verge of their first ever Stanley gun? I mean, Marchesaw or Eichel are going to win the cons smite, but it's Aden Hill. It's Aiden Hill. Like, they're not going anywhere if Aiden Hill doesn't have a 935 save percentage. You know, this is, this is, and, you know, the more I think about it, the more I'm starting

to think goalies are the new running back. where it is really dumb to invest a lot of money into them because they're so random. Aiden Hill's a 27-year-old who never played more than what, 25 games in the season before, never played in a playoff. He's the third-string goalie on this team, and he's going to win you the Stanley Cup. This is anti-Nemi in 2010.

This is Jordan Binnington, who went on an incredible run and really hasn't been very good since. Who was it last year? It was Darcy Camper. Well, Darcy Camper. Yeah, and then Pablo Frantzose took over for a couple of games too. Like, we're just seeing, like, you know, yes, Connor Helobuck is awesome,

and Igor Shestirkin is awesome, and Ilya Seroquin is awesome. And if you can get one of those guys, great. But beyond maybe three or four guys, spending any money on a goalie is just idiotic right now. Because we're seeing that it's a lot about the right timing. It's a lot about the right fit. It's the team in front of you.

And goalie's, goaltending in general is just so unpredictable at this point that, you know, what the hell? Just go nuts. Look at Bobrowski. Who's all this coming from Bobrowski? He wasn't even the starting goalie going into the playoffs either. How many times you have to see this that maybe spending $10.5 million on a goalie is not the best use of your resources?

Which is kind of ironic you mentioned, Bobrovsky, because he's the most expensive goaltender left in this postseason. And how's that going? I mean, it got him there. You can't grab up. It's not Bobroffi's little bit there. But I'm just saying, like, he was the backup going into the playoffs. He was. But also to your point about Aidan Hill, Aden Hill entered the Stanley Cup final with slightly better numbers than Sergey Bobrovsky.

It's just that Sergey Bobrovsky was doing what he was doing on a team that was the lowest possible seed in the Eastern Conference getting into the postseason when it almost looked as if they weren't going to be. It was Alex Lyon to have to carry them into the playoffs and he got the start and then Sergey Mabrofsky did his thing. But Aiden Hill, he was my pre-series pick to win the cons might. I'm not sure at this point if he'll still get it, but you're right. Like he deserves so much credit. And I feel, I mean, Joe Smith did a great job of, of, of, of, of, a story on him a couple of days ago. But it felt like his story was kind of pushed to the back,

considering how good Vegas was, considered how we were very much enamored with Sergey Moproski, considered how enamored we were with Matthew Kachuk, becoming a star, a superstar, worthy of being profiled in People magazine and being on inside the NBA on TNT rubbing shoulders with Charles Barkley wearing an elbow room shirt. Like, Aidan Hill was very much pushed to the back. And then game one happens.

But I mean, for the rest of the series, I mean, I think, Jean-Ata Marceau, he would be my pick if I had a vote for who should win the Kahn-Smife trophy. And maybe it's a bit of a spoiler for our Kahn-Smythe winner of the week at the end of the show. But I don't know. It's really interesting to see people kind of bring up Jack Eichol and say, hey, well, he's been performing as well as he has. He's been a big reason why Marshall-Soyle's been performing the way that he has. And he deserves just as much of a chance at the Konsmive trophy.

I don't know if you have a vote in this, but like, I wonder where you would actually vote. Well, it's tough because like any time you have a team that wins the Stanley Cup, unless it's, you know, a very unusual circuit, you're going to have several guys who have been playing, like, on the run of their careers. That's how you win a Stanley Cup is you have multiple players playing unbelievable hockey. So, I mean, you can, Ikel has been just a monster. Like, whether he's producing or not, you could tell he's just the, he's the best player on the ice. March is so scoring all these goals. You can't deny that he's scoring all these goals. He's on an incredible streak.

Aiden Hill, his numbers are ridiculous. And I'm a guy who believes that goaltenders are by far the most important. Like, I always have a goalie or two on my heart ballot because how could you argue that almost any skater short of Connor McDavid is more valuable to any team than a goalie? So the goalies always deserve more consmite consideration in my mind. I thought, you know, the three years I voted on the cons smith were 2013, 2014, and 2015. And Corey Crawford probably should have won the cons smite in 13. And he probably should have won it in 15 because, Hawks don't get that far without him.

And every year you have these debates. I remember what was it? Crosby and Kessel in 16 or 17. There's always a few people that deserve it because you can't win the Stanley Cup on the back of just one man. You're always going to have three or four guys that are doing it for you.

One thing we should match with Aden Hill pending a free agent after the Stanley and finals are open. And no offense to Aden Hill here, who has been spectacular. Someone is going to overpay him so badly based on six really good weeks because we've seen this a million times.

Are they? I mean, if you read Michael Rousseau and Pierre LeBrun and I never heard of me, there was a... I'm trying to remember all the writers who came together on the off-season trade board that was put out last week, but like some names like Connor Hellebuck

could be thrown out there for trade. John Gibson is also available out there. In terms of free agent goalie Sue, Aiden Hill, Freddie Anderson, Tristan Jari in Pittsburgh. I wonder for a guy like Aden Hill, if you're a guy, if you're a GM looking to pay money, I mean, let's never underestimate the power of GMs throwing out money at a problem or an issue that they need solved. But considering all the goalies that are out there, I do wonder what that means for Aiden Hill, especially if he wins a conspive trophy.

They at least has that over all those other goalies. but are teams willing to take that chance on a guy who just came out of nowhere and you're right, was a third string to start the year? If you look at Aden Hill and you look at his entire body of work, he should probably get what? 1.25, 1.5 million tops? Someone's going to throw three or four million at him. And it might not be a $10.5 million on a contract, but he's going to be overpaid by somebody based on this cup run. And, you know, we'll see.

It may turn out to be. Goaltenders are, they develop later than a lot of players do. just like defenseman, you know, he's 27. He's not an old man. As far as goalies go, he's just entering the prime of his career. It might be a prudent investment. You know, this might just be his coming out party. Or, again, he might be anti-Niemi.

And if you go back, that's the name I keep hearing the most when people talk about what Aden Hill is doing. And if you remember, the sharks made a, if I'm remembering everything right back in the 2010s a long time ago, the sharks made a qualifying offer on Nicholas Jalmersson, which forced the Blackhawks to choose between either anti-Niemi, their Stanley Cup, winning goalie or Nicholas Jomerson, who at the time didn't have the reputation that he had as one of the great defensive defensemen. They chose to match Jomerson, which means they had to let Niemie walk. And that proved to be the right decision. But at the time, you let people were up in

arms, like, how could you let your Stanley Cup winning goalie leave? So the shine on a Stanley Cup winning goalie cannot be understated in the eyes of GMs. And this guy's proven he can win the big games. He's proven he's got the heart, you know, all that. And Aiden Hill has. He's been phenomenal. Like, I have nothing bad to say about Aidan Hill. But if you look at his body of work and what he probably should get, he's going to get a whole lot more, even if it's in Vegas. And the fact that we're seeing more and more teams consider this tandem style for goaltending as opposed to just shelling out all that money towards one guy,

that does kind of lean more into the running backification of the goaltending position in the NHL, which is the most important position as far as I'm concerned. Well, I mean, I guess you win center in terms of goal tentate. Which one do you value more. Like I don't know. Like, Senator, you build through the middle, but who's stopping all those pucks to keep you in? I just literally watch the Calgary Flames team with

a team that was supposed to have really good depth up and down the middle, but what ultimately doomed them? A lot of things, but goaltending's right at the top of the list. Right. And it's weird because with running backs, you know, it's become you know, anyone who's good enough to be in the NFL can succeed behind a good offensive line in a good scheme. Goaltending's

not that simple. It's not that cut and dry. But the randomness of goal tending, I think is what's going to prevent teams from starting, or at least cause them to rethink, you know, Connor Hellebuck is one of the five best players in the NHL probably. Do you want to give him $11 million, though? I don't know. You consider Connor Hella Buck as one of the five best players in the NHL? I mean, he's been on my heart ballot enough times to be considered of that.

Yeah. I don't have Borses-Sherkin, whoever, whichever goal you want to put on there. I don't have Hellebuck in my top five players, but I do see where you get it. I mean, I have to Sturkin over Hellebuck, but Hellebuck. but Hell Buck's really good. They're super important, valuable players that in theory should be worth the same amount as a Nathan McKinnon or, you know,

that level of player, Cal McCarr even. But they're not because just the randomness of it. It's, it's, you can't, every goal he turns into a pumpkin at some point, every pumpkin turns into a princess. It makes no sense. And I don't know if you can commit

one-eighth of your salary cap in a flat-cap world, even with, you know, it's going to go up sometime, yeah, We've been saying that for how many years now? At some point, how could you devote that much money to a goaltender, knowing that we're seeing more and more that playing 45-50 games is a better way of doing it than playing 65-70 games? This isn't the Marty Brodor years anymore.

No. Thank you so much, by the way, for, you know, making life the fact that we keep hearing that the cap's going to go up year-in, year out, because we're just Charlie Brown running after the football, I'm telling you. That's basically it. And, like, I do believe that the salary cap number is going to go up in a couple years, but like you're right. I feel like I've been here

for like the last two, three years. Like, man, that number's going to go up, man. All these teams are going to afford all these players and all that. Maybe a hundred million dollar cap, you'll see. That being said, though, I think some star players should start signing those short-term deals

when the salary cap does actually go up so that way they can take advantage of that. Preach. I don't know if you've been catching wind of, why is it every time you're on, we end up talking about the Toronto Maple Leafs? I think it's a federal law. Yeah, something like.

Can't have a hockey podcast without asking how it affects the Leafs, right? Because there's people in Toronto who are worried about Austin Matthews signing like a two or three year deal. But he should do. He absolutely should do. He absolutely should do it. Because if the cap is going to go up in two years,

why would you commit to a long-term contract now when you're one of the best players in the world? Bet on yourself. Every year, we've been talking about this for like 10 years. When is an NHL player going to take the NBA route and bet on himself and just every two years get a new contract and go for making $11 million to $13 million to $15 million, the $17 million. When is someone going to do that?

If anyone's going to do that, it's Austin Matthews. He's kind of the most, I don't know, for lack of a better term, modern NHL player, I think, forward thinking. But it's just, it's not how they're just raised, right? They're taught, the job security is more important than the AAV. But I, you know, I wish Pastor Nack would do. I wish someone would have done this. And it would completely. change the entire sport. The first time someone does it and it pays off, everyone's going to do it.

July 1st, whatever year Austin Matthews becomes a free agent, let's say in a world where he signs like a two or three year deal. So let's not think of next July where he would presumably be a free agent if he doesn't sign. But could you imagine the way it gets promoted on like a sports center or a TSN for free agent frenzy? I don't know how Americans get down on that day, but like just the frenzy, the mad, yeah, no. Nobody's watching. This is America. What are we talking about?

This America. It's a Thursday, okay? Everyone's getting ready for July 4th. I get it. Or maybe they've already started partying for what I've seen. But anyway, like that would be such an amazing fun. And I understand the NBA comparisons and all that because of some other guy who tried to decide their own future and making a whole big spectacle of themselves. That worked out for them.

Sort of. Well, what's going to happen, though, what I'm really interested in seeing is when, if and when it does happen, how does the hockey world react to it? Is it like, oh, this guy's selfish? He's all about the money. He's all about himself, not the team.

Like, are all the hockey men going to get their, you know, their underwear and a twist here? Oh, they are going to get that in a twist like that. But you know what's going to happen? We're likely going to see a lot more eyeballs than we would normally see for a player of that caliber, potentially joining a franchise. Yeah.

That's not the Toronto Maple Leafs. If he joins in L.A., if he joins in New York, if he joins a big major market, we're all going to be like, oh my God, this is happening, and it's going to be a big deal, but we're not there yet. We're not there yet.

We're not there yet, but I think Matthews is, I think he's the only one that could really trigger that new way of thinking. I think if he does it, others will follow. And I really hope, there's no offense to Toronto, but I really hope he does it

just to shake up how stayed the NHL off seasons are, right? It's fun. Yes. Hot snow season is so fun, and every other league. It sucks in the NHL. There's like three, like, number four defensemen that are changing teams every year.

It's like, ooh, it's a big, and it's always a seven-year contract. I want to see chaos. Mark, at one point, the number one available free agent for this year's class was David Ceperson. And he got tricked. This is what I'm saying. Like, you know, Blackhawks fans keep asking, who are the Blackhawks going to sign to play with Conner-Berdin?

I'm like, there ain't nobody to sign. This isn't the year for this. Next year, we can talk. Next year, there's some names out there. There's, no, this is like, this might be the unsexiest free agent class in the history of the NHL. But that's all the more reason for like the trade mill to be like pumped up more, right? Like if, all right, fine, maybe you're not going to, like, Patrick Kane is it going to be a free agent this year. If this was five years ago, maybe we'd be more excited. But like, all the more reason for us surgery. It's going to, it's going to affect him. You know, not important. But like, of course it is.

But like, imagine like Pierre Lue du Bois. He's all like, hey, man, like, you know, I'm not going to sign an extension of Winnipeg. The top three players on the athletics off-season trade board are Winnipeg Jets. Like, imagine if one of those guys move for going to be a big deal. If they move all three of those, that's a banner year for us caring

about that type of stuff. And here's my concern about, you know, we talk about maybe Matthews could change things. And he might not because, you know, Bill Zito went out and made the big trade for Kachuk. And it worked out like gangbusters. But do we really expect all of a sudden every GM in the NHL is going to be all bold

and be willing to trade superstars for superstars or is it just going to be more of the same, you know, futures picks? Like, I don't see a sea change happening in NHL front offices. They still want the long-term deals and they still want to keep their hoard their star players and they don't have the, you know, the guts to make, you know, incredibly bold. Like that Zito trade, he lost the trade. I read all the stories, man.

Calgary crushed it. Oh, Bradcher Living. He's the best GM in the history. And then he got fired. And Bill Zito went to the same to the final. Brad for living, Bradshaw living left on his own. Excuse me, yes, he left. And he left on his own accord.

Godspeed, my man. But like, but here's something that's interesting with regards to the two teams of the final because, yes, the Vegas Golden Knights didn't really do that much last offseason. Yes, the Florida Panthers were quiet at the deadline. But those are two teams that are essentially going to be defined by the movement they did to build the teams that they have. Remember when Jack Eichel, the sweepstakes over him and Vegas won that? That was a big swing to take.

on top of all the other big swings that they were doing for years and years and years. Mark Stone, Alex Patrangelo, all that. Matthew Kachuk, like, change the look of the franchise. It turns out trying to make your team better, makes your team better. Who knew? So, like, I've been thinking about it because I've had to, like, talk about this on different platforms throughout the weekend. But, like, if you're a GM and you're thinking about making big swings, like, how do you not look at these two teams in the final and say, like, see, look, like, you can go out of your way to make big swing. and make something work, and you can put yourself in a position where you end up in a cup final and compete.

Like, this might be the final to kind of, I mean, in a perfect world, this would be the final to sway GM's opinions about being conservative at a deadline or in the offseason or in any other circumstances where they can make a trade that can make their team better. And it won't. It just won't. It won't until the current crop of GMs kind of goes off into the sunset and new, younger, bolder GMs do. I think that's just the way it is. These guys, you know, Leopard doesn't change his spots, and these guys are going to be conservative for the most part. And you'll have a couple of outliers like you do in Vegas,

like you do in Florida. But that's just not the way it works in hockey. And there needs to be some kind of seismic event. You'd think the Kachuk trade might have been that event, but it doesn't feel that way, does it? It doesn't feel like we're just on the verge of, or on the precipice of some chaotic offseason. It's going to be more of the same.

And I don't think that... You could be wrong, though. I hope I'm wrong. I'd love to be wrong. I just don't think, I am. I think you're still going to be see guys, you know, overvalue their own prospects, overvalue their own draft picks, overvalue their own stars, and not be willing to part with them because it's safer and there's more job security in kind of standing pat and running it back

every year. I think that's what we're going to see. Yeah. I mean, it is fun to dream though. It is fun to dream about a really hectic off season where we're all running up and down trying to cover these traits. I watch the NBA and I'm like, man, it must be exhausting to be an NBA. Yes. beatwriter in the off season. I'm thinking hockey like by noon on July 2nd, everyone's like, I'm off to the cabin, guys. See you later. Like, I'm a, maybe I don't want to give that up. I don't have a cabin, but I do like just disappearing for the summer, so I don't know. Maybe, maybe I shouldn't be rooting for all this. It'd be a lot more work for us. Sham Sharania must have like three phones. Oh God, I can only imagine what those guys life is like, I have no idea. I'm glad nobody

talks to me. It's just easier that way. I want more people to talk to me, but I don't know if that's famous last words. I don't know. We should mention with Matthew Kachuk, though. I did want to get to him and this great conversation led to being what it was. But that guy's been taking a beating

throughout the Stanley Cup playoffs, in particular in this cup final. And people were starting to ask about his health after game four and seemed a little bit up in the air. I think he's going to play in game five. But could you imagine, a world where Matthew Kachuk is just not available for the Florida Panthers on Tuesday?

He'll play. He'll play because this is hockey, but is he going to be effective? That's the question. And he's playing with one arm, basically. Like, whatever he's dealing with, you know, he took that big hit and he had like the Bambi legs and we all got worried about, and they got taken off for the concussion spotter correctly. But I, there's clearly something wrong with his arm or his shoulder or his collarbone. Whatever he's playing with, we're going to find out soon enough.

We're all going to be, like, cringing. Like when Patrice Bergeron was playing with a hole in his lung and a cracked rib and all this Like we glorify this stuff, and I sort of wish we wouldn't because it's bad for these guys in their long-term careers. But I understand that you spend your whole life waiting to get to this moment. You're going to play no matter what. But he's not Matthew Kuchuk right now. He's just some guy. And he's not helping anybody by being out there.

I mean, as great as he is, as admirable as it is, he's not really helping. And that's why the Panthers, that's why I don't see how they can come back in this series. They're best player. And I love Sasha Barkoff and Radcoe Gouda said he was the best player in the world. but Matthew Kachuk is their best player and he's a shell of himself right now. He's just not able to play at the way he needs to play. And it's just hard to imagine the Panthers

winning three straight against a Vegas team that's just a wagon right now without him at 100% or even close. Can't wait to hear in a couple days that Matthew Kachuk was playing with a separated shoulder for the last two weeks. It was held together by dental floss. Exactly.

These guys are just, it's like trisidal last year, you know, playing on one leg. And he was awesome. But I mean, imagine if you, we got to see this year what it's like when he's on two legs in the playoffs. I mean, he's so good. But you kind of like wish these guys wouldn't put themselves through that because you could shorten your career doing that. And I get it. That's what we love.

We love the sacrifice and the grit and the got to do whatever you can. And it's, it is fun. And we all glorify it. But it's like at the same time, it's like, oh, my God. We're expecting too much of these people and they're putting themselves in harm's way. But that's what also makes athletes so much more different from human beings like you and I. Like if I was, if I was trying to play through like a cracked lug, like a not cracked rib. Or cracked rib or or a collapsed lug.

Like you wouldn't see me. A collapsed lung? You wouldn't see me. I'd be gone. I'd be like, nah, I'm done. I'm wrapping it up. I covered a game in Anaheim this year while dealing with a kidney stone. I was in the hospital that morning.

I'm hockey tough. I was whimpering the whole time and it was pathetic, but I still, I was there. I'm so sorry. Oh. I have a nagging. cough right now and I'm here podcasting. I'm a goddamn hero. Yeah, that's right, Mark Lazarus. You complain on the podcast while you have your dangit cough. I'm Gregory Campbell. I am Bobby Bonn. I am, I am Willis Reed. I have all those things rolled into one because I have a slight tickle at my

throat. Oh, no. Oh, God. Oh, man. Okay. Well, let's not, let's not, let's not bring up Mark Glassers his ego anymore. You did kind of touch off on something with regards to Matthew and Chuck Be Healthy and the chances for Florida coming back down through one. I mean, they have done it before against the greatest regular season of all time of the Boston Bruins. By the way, I'm not going to stop reminding people. Ian Mendez and I told you the Boston Bruins were not going to make the cup final

this year. We were right. Your apologies better be as loud as the disrespect. I just want that said. But I do think if the Florida Panthers find, even if the. get a win in game five. Like I still, I mean, there's a part of me that still sees it. Like, I want to see them try hard and do this and be this kind of team of destiny because

they found a way to do it against the Boston Bruins that before gentlemen sweeping the Leafs and actually sweeping the Carolina Hurricanes. Like, you're right. Chachuk has to be healthy, but like they do have the pieces to at least make this sort of interesting, right? Like Carver Hakey's, I'm getting all these game winners. He's got pieces on defense like Aaron Eckblatt as well. Sirma Mirovsky, I get it.

The series so far has not really gone his way. One game changes everything. He goes God mode in game five changes everything. And that's realistic. We've seen it enough this year. Yes. Sergei Mabrovsky is the reason that the Panthers can still win this series. Because we've seen him just how good he was against Carolina,

just how good he was in the previous series, and Toronto. He can do it. He's got it in him. He is a two-time Vezina winning goalie who's the real deal when he's on. and, you know, if he gets, if he has a big game five and he gets that confidence going again, of course it's possible. We see this in hockey more than we see it in other sports, right? Like, in momentum, you know, I always ask athletes this question because I'm fascinated by it,

whether momentum really exists or not. And over the years, I've come to the conclusion that it does exist because they believe it exists. Like it really, like, there's no such thing as momentum. We all know that that's not a real thing. But in their heads, it does. And that confidence boost basically creates that. momentum, right? If they believe it's true, then it's true. And so if you have a big game by Bobrowski and they get some goals, you know, if Montor and Verhege and Barkoff kind of, you know,

really gets going downhill, then they're going to start believing, hey, we've done this before. We've got the goalie. And then we're going home for game six. And if we win that, then it's all bets are off game seven. It's not hard to make that leap. It's hard to imagine them doing without Kachuk, but they've got the goalie. They can do it. They could do it. Also, I want to, I want to here's the thing, man, with the fact that you ask athletes about whether or not momentum exists and you think it exists

because players exist, that's like some dangerous logic, right? Like, what if you start talking with enough people about fighting? It's like, I don't think it brings CTE. And then like, it's like, oh, I believe it because players say that. Like, it's funny because the other,

the other, the state, and it's in a similar vein, you know, I'm, I'm kind of, I'm pretty anti-fighting in hockey. I think it's time to get rid of it. I don't like it. Oh, yeah. But athletes believe that fighting

prevents, you know, cheap shoting and stuff like that. It does. Answer the bell. That's what they can say. It's stupid as hell that it does. That like a, that throwing two punches against a plastic helmeted head

makes up for, you know, Marion Hosa murder, getting murdered by Rafi Torres. But Jamal Mayers jumps over the boards, fights Rafi Torres a year later. Roll done. Bob's your uncle. You know, and then it's all over.

Like, it's imbecilic that that's a thing that actually happens, but the players believe that's okay. So therefore it works. I think fighting. is stupid. The players think it has a purpose, therefore it has a purpose. And if you try to say like, hey, well, what about like head trauma and all that stuff? You get people like Ryan Reeves, no shade to Ryan Reeves, good individual. But you'll get people like him who'll be like,

well, go play volleyball. Right. This is a man sport. Er. No shade. Again, no shade to Ryan Reeves. It was cool talking to him for the story I wrote about hockey fights. But yeah, when I heard that, I was like, yeah, wow. Okay. So like NHH players really, they really don't want to push away from fighting. I mean, there are guys who ultimately the game has shifted away from that old kind of, you know, style with how we see fighting now, clearly. But like, there are guys that are definitely going to push for it. And the day when the NHL says, okay, we kind of have to get rid of this because in junior leagues, it's getting to what was catching up to us. I'm very curious about what that will look like. Maybe at that point, maybe those players will have been pushed out by that.

How many fights, real fights, not post-wistle scrums, how many fights have you seen in the playoffs this year? I can't think of any. Like real fights. like a real like organized like drop the gloves you know square up and the red the lines like that doesn't happen in the playoffs i'm blanking i'm blanking because the players know it's too important and fighting is stupid they know deep down that fighting is stupid but and like and i don't have a problem with seeing guys get into it after like a scrum after a whistle yeah no that's fine that's natural that's not staged that's just genuine emotion and i'm mad at you and you know i could do without the message sending quote unquote at the end of a yeah blowout playoff game

I hate that crap. But, you know, if, you know, someone's shoving their stick under your goalies pads while he's got the puck frozen and you shove him in the face and they shove back, that's all fine. That's genuine heat of the moment stuff. I got no problem with that stuff. Yeah, absolutely. But like, me blinding up against the guy and then we just drop the gloves after the face off goes. And then we just like, all right.

Like, why? I mean, I don't know. Unless it's like a big, like heavyweight till. Like, if it was Luchich versus Reeves, I'd be like, okay, that's like the last. heavyweight fight we're going to get in the NHL maybe ever. Other than that, I don't need to see. You know what? And the ones that really bug me are the ones where, you know,

guy delivers a clean hit so someone has to fight the guy. Oh, yeah. Like that's, that's where we go too far. And I wish that, like, I know, like, you know, when you're seeing out of the corny where I were on the ice, like, was that clean hit or was that a high hit? I don't know.

But those drive me nuts. Like, you shouldn't have to answer the bell, quote, unquote, for delivering a perfectly clean body check. This is hockey. We're allowed to body check people. And if you drive your shoulder through someone's chest across the middle of the ice, you know, you shouldn't have to fight someone for doing that. Next time we have Mark Lazarus on the Monday show, we need you to compile a top 10 list of things you hate about this sport. Oh, no, don't pay me like that.

Don't pay me like that. I love the sport. I don't like some of the stupid shit that goes around the sport. Don't, but I'm not some hockey hater. I love the game. No, but there are things that we can do to make it so much better. But that's it, but that's my thing about it. I think if you love the sport of hockey,

this shouldn't be that much of a problem for you to be like, hey, man, you know what, this should be better, this should be better, this should be better. Because you could be a genuine hater and be like, oh, well, these guys are playing on knives. This sport sucks. Or you can actually provide constructive criticism and be like, no, the culture should be better.

So when I say like, hey, you should mention 10 things that like you hate about the sport, yes, it's done in jest. But I also am not saying that because I think you, you're a hater enough as is. Well, I feel like I have this reputation as like a wet blanket who hates the game, and it's not. Like, I just, I care about the game and I want it to be better, you know? All right. I'm sorry for paying you.

No, no, it's okay. It's okay. It's just, no, no, your voice pitched up. You don't think it's that okay. I understand. I don't want people to get the wrong impression. Okay. I don't hate the sport at all.

But there are, it's like you look at other sports and baseball realize, shit, man, this game is too slow. Let's have a pitch clock. The shift is ruining baseball. Let's prevent the shift. Basketball. Put in a shot clock at one point and added the three point line. NFL said, we want more offense, so you can't touch a wide receiver anymore. And you can't touch a quarterback.

And the game's better than it's ever been. The hockey's like, no, must be the same game that To Blake played. Old time hockey Eddie Shore. I saw a To Blake reference on the timeline today. I was like, what the hell are we on? Anyway, before we get to cons my Twitter of the week candidates, Mark, I just need you to go into the mic and just assure all of our fans all the entire hockey world.

I just need you to say, I'm Mark Lazarus and I don't hate hockey. Can you just do that? I'm Mark Lazarus and I hate everything. Oh my God, you can't even do that. Hey, might as well play into the character, right? Oh my God. We're going to get called soyboys.

Soyboys! Soyboys are the Z at the end. Don't forget the Z. With a Zed. A Zed. Excuse me, a Zed, yes. Yeah, this is the Monday show. We have to abide by some Canadian federal law. I have not been adding news to any of my words.

I will go back and change the script for the transcript. Well, thank God for that. Kahn Smyth winner of the week, if you've been following us throughout the postseason, we try to award a player who we feel has been playing worthy of the Khan Smyth over the past week. Our candidates, Jonathan Marcheseau, or Jonathan Marcioso, depending on which part of the world you live in. I love saying it that way. I love saying it that way. It's just the kid.

I don't even know. Is he, does he have a friend? Canadian background? Like, would he pronounce it that way? He's, he's Capequa, yeah. So, yeah, I didn't know. Of course. That's fair. Anyway, three goals. No, there was a time when, like, I did this episode, did this show, and I said, I forget whose name I said in French, but it might have been a Vegas player.

And someone on Twitter got mad about that. I don't know. It was a Vegas player or was either Chris La Tang's name. Because Chris LaTang's name's always kind of, like, I always kept hearing Chris LaTang as Chris LaTang. and then when I hear like RDS or like some of my French Canadian friends like say his name, they say Chris Lotton.

And I'm like, oh, wait a minute. That's one I genuinely did not know. But like there's Littang and Luton. But like Le Tang is like persistent. But that's neither here nor there. Then you have Quebec like Corrie Crawford. I mean, you can get away with Cory Crawford. Like, like, I mean, I don't know.

I mean, I guess like French people, they'll see my idea like Julian McKenzie or whatever. like, all right, cool, but you don't have to overdo it. It's fine. Anyway, Con's wife winner of the week candidates, Jonathan Barshasot on a nine-game point streak, but six points in the last week. Chandler Stevenson, two goals in game four,

four points in his last three. Matthew Kachuk last week scored the game tying goal in game three. He has three points in his last three. Carter-Rahagie got the O.T. goal in game three. Jack Eichol, not to be forgotten, three assists in his last three games. Who do you think is most deserving? And we should throw Aiden Hill in there,

because Aiden Hill is still out there winning games. He is out there. He's winning games. I think you got to go with Marchoso for the week. He's just so hot, right? And the hardest thing to do is to score goals, especially in the playoffs, and he's scoring goals. Jack Eichol might have a lot to do with why Vegas is playing so well. He's playing great all over the ice.

You know, I could very easily just say every week that it's been Eichel. But what Marchezo is doing is, I mean, it's pretty extraordinary what he's doing at this stage of the game to be scoring this frequently. I'll give it to him. I'm giving it to him too, man. I'm still thinking about that beautiful play that Jack Eichel's doing from, I forget where he makes the sick pass from it was in game three, I want to say. And then Jonathan Marcioso, right place at the right time. Not even just, it's the one thing for him to get the shot.

But if you look at where that finish is, where Bobrovsky's trying to cover up the net, he gets this tight window at the top. Like, that's just as impressive to me as the pass. And that's the best goal he scored in the last few days. He's deserving of the winner of the week for me. very possible at the end of this week he could win the Consmive trophy, but that may also be dependent on if

the Florida Panthers don't come back from a 3-1 series. Small detail, yeah. Very tiny detail. One last thing before we get out of here, multiple choice madness. Looking again at the off-season trade board. Mark, I'm going to need you to put on your GM hat

and imagine you were just a team that was in need of a goalie. Which of these goalies on the athletics trade board, would you make a move for A, Connor Hullabuck, B, John Gibson, C, Carter Hart, or D, would you wait for free agency and sign either one of Aden Hill, Freddie Anderson, or Tristan Jarre? Like, I'm going to be totally undercut my message from earlier because I said that goalies aren't important anymore. But Connor Hullabuck is one of the three or four guys that are. And if I can get Connor Hullabuck on my team, I am doing whatever I have to do to get Connor Hellabuck on my team.

Because he is invaluable. Like you can't put a level on just how good and how important he can take a mediocre team and make him good. He could take a good team and make it great. Hella bucks the guy I'm going after. But if the price is too high and it very well might be, you know, I think I'm looking at free agency because you can get an Aden Hill or Freddie. I've historically been a Freddie Anderson hater. I always think that he wilts in the end, but he was really, really good in this postseason. He proved me wrong.

And he's a guy that, you know, I'm pretty sure Carolina wants him back. They want to keep him and Ronta. But there are going to be options out there. And again, unless you're getting a Hella Buck, Shestirk, and Sorokin, maybe Soros, then you shouldn't be investing that much money or that much trade capital into them. So if I can't get Hellebuck, I might just sit back and wait for free agency and take my chances. I mean, Connor Hellebuck's the best investor caliber goalie in that list. Makes perfect sense.

I get Carter Hart still a relatively young goalie. You could still get to his best. John Gibson was on a pretty bad Anaheim team, but, I mean, I don't know. He's still in the prime of his career, 29. I think he could still give a good team some good years. But you're right. Connor Hellebuck is the big name out there. He's a top name on our offseason trade board. He's the guy you probably make a move for and you find a way to make it work within your salary gap. So yeah, we're both in agreement for Kansmyf winner of the week and for multiple choice madness. And with that mark, that brings an end to the Monday edition of the athletic hockey show. Thank you so much for tapping in for Ian, man. I really appreciate it. No worries. I'm sure I won't be invited back. We'll see about that, Mark. I'm sure you will. I mean, you know, I go on about how much you are a hater, but the truth is that it does fuel the show from time to time when you're on.

It's always fun being on. Oh, man. We love having you on, man. So thank you again for doing that. And thank you, dear listener, for tuning in to the Monday edition of The Athletic Hockey Show. Please follow us on your favorite podcast platform. Leave a rating and a review. We would sincerely appreciate it if you do follow us on YouTube at YouTube.com slash at The Athletic Hockey Show. Right now, get a one-year subscription to The Athletic for $2 a month when you visit theathletic.com slash hockey show. Of course, see.