The Athletic Hockey Show - Have the Panthers finally solved Shesterkin?

Episode Date: May 29, 2024

Gentille and McIndoe recap the Panthers overtime win over the Rangers in game four, and they look ahead to game four tonight in Edmonton with the Oilers in trouble against the powerhouse Dallas Stars. The guys discuss Don Waddell joining the Columbus Blue Jackets, Dan Bylsma becoming the second head coach in Seattle Kraken history and if interim GM Eric Tulsky will be handed the keys to the Canes full-time in Carolina. Plus, Sean and Sean tackle The Athletic's Free Agent board with Steven Stamkos, Jake Guentzel and Sam Reinhart leading the way in free agency this summer.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Good evening. This is the athletic hockey show. It's the Wednesday edition. Tushan Zero Franks today. Carrados on the Memorial Cup, I believe. I don't even know where that's taking place. Is it in Quebec somewhere, Sean?

You know what? That's a good question. Saginaw. Thank you, producer. All right. Good for Frankie. He's getting some quality time. He's jumping on all the big fancy trips.

Quality time in Saginaw, Michigan. He can go past a statue of Draymond Green, I think. I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure that's all that's in Saginaw these days. We tried to get him, but he was like, boys, I got a chance to go to Saginaw. Yeah, that's what I learned this week, is that Frankie, Frankie is spending his week in Saginaw, Michigan. Okay, dokey. Well, buddy,

By the way, can we just real quick, what's with you opening the show with a good evening? I just like, it's, it's reflective. You've just thrown a lot of people off. There's, like, people's part of the fun. Okay. So we're just messing with people. All right.

I like to insert one way to, I need something to start it on where I won't like stutter and stumble over myself. And it seems like, every good broadcaster has a catchphrase, which is, and you've decided to go with, Good evening.

Good evening. It's something that has never been used before by anyone. Good morning, good afternoon, and good night. Yeah. That's from the Truman Show, Sean. That's a movie that came out 25 years ago. Well, then I haven't gone around to it yet. Good morning.

Morning. Good morning. Oh, and in case I don't see you, good afternoon, good evening, and good night. It's on my list, and maybe next week. I'll report back. We're coming off a pretty good game in the Eastern Conference finals. I think that's where I I'll let you go first but I not to not to ruin it but Rangers uh who won who won that one last night?

Panthers won Rangers Panthers. It was really the same game as game three. But with the different result. What I learned this one. What have we learned, Sean? Is that I think the Rangers are in as much trouble as you can possibly be in a series in which you're tied to two when heading home. Because holy smokes, did they get, I don't really know, like I'm phrasing this is what I

learned, but it's more confusion on my part because the Panthers were clearly the better team in those two games. I feel like using the word dominate might be just a little bit over the top, but it was not close as far as the run of the play. there was that stretch, you know, in I think it was the second period last night where I mean, for eight minutes, they were just,

the Panthers were in the offensive zone straight. Like, they look to the eye, like clearly the better team. I think whether you're a hockey fan, an expert, or just somebody new to the game, you watch that,

and you're like, oh, okay, this team's better than that team. And yet, two overtime games. The Rangers are hanging in there. So I don't know. Like, I feel like you, could talk me both ways. You could say

the Panthers are dominating this series and the result is starting to feel inevitable as we get closer to the end of it. Because it's like you can only tilt the ice for so long. The flip side is you go

hey, the Rangers just went into Florida. They saw the Panthers two very best games and they nearly took both wins back to Madison Square Gardens with them. So I don't know. Like where it's two to two. You've Got home ice, you should be fine if you're the Rangers. But holy, like, you can't, you can't be given up two-thirds of the scoring chances for through more games.

You're done. Or are you? I don't think that's a sustainable thing now. In the second period, I feel like we saw a narrative shatter, like right in front of us. and that was the Panthers can't solve Igor Shisterkin. Like it felt like that had started to crystallize with reason because he's great. We know how they won game three, right?

That was a, you know, goalie steel, which is always, always fun. And we say it over and over again, I feel like it counts, goalie play counts, like regardless of whether people want to pretend like it does, it doesn't sometimes. But where we had started moving, like the overall vibe, I think, is people are like, I don't know.

I don't know what's how. Like, are the Panthers? Is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it puckering time for them? Like, are they, are they, are they, is this dude in their heads? And it really started to feel like it hit a fever pitch. And I again, this is based on Twitter, which is always a stupid thing to do. And we've been doing it for 15 years now. I'm going to do it again anyways.

Like, you knew what. the stories coming out of that game were going to be. It was going to be Florida. Florida can't handle Shisterkin. They can't, you know, they've, they're finishing has left them because they've been faced with one of the best goaltenders on earth and blah, blah, blah, blah, here we are. And then during the second period, they just plowed through that, right?

So I think it was a nice bit of proof and it was a really good example that the Florida Panthers are not the Carolina Hurricanes in that, in that regard, right? They have the track record. They have the, they have the offensive production, and they have the dogs on that team that you got to have if you want to break through the guy who looks like he's about to steal a series, right? That, like, that's where everything was going. And then, you know, after just the damn broke just enough with all that zone time and all those chances, you know, to kind of flip the script. And now here we are, we're like, where like it's 2-2, but it doesn't feel like it,

and it's going back to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and things pivoted. And they pivoted, and they did break through, but they broke through with two goals. Mm-hmm. You know, it wasn't six. It was, you know, if you're a Rangers fan, you're going, yeah, it was two goals, one of them on a power play. And then the overtime goal was, you know, again, a power play goal.

And, uh, man, it's, it doesn't feel like, it doesn't feel like the Rangers are in the series. But one minute into game five, that could all change. It's true. Because again, you know, you get back, back on home ice. The game-to-game momentum isn't really a thing in the playoffs, even though it feels overwhelming for the 48 hours in between the games. That's like a thing the players say always, always, always, too.

Like, this doesn't, like, that's not us just being like, oh, it's not real. It's players being like that. It's not a game-to-game stuff just doesn't happen. The track record backs that up. I mean, we've got decades of history to tell us that it doesn't. It really doesn't. But for me, as a fan, I've said this before, every single series I watch, I am convinced that whatever team won the most recent game is going to win the series.

Like, I'm just, you could be down three nothing in a series. You win game four. I'm like, man, I think that's it. I think that's, I think we're here we go, right? And then it all changes up. But this is, we kind of said after game three, you sort of went, okay, is that the new normal? Or is that the Panthers just played their best game? The Rangers took their punch and stole it.

Now it's two games in a row. Now it's a pattern. It's a pattern that could get ended in game five pretty quickly. But I mean, if you're, which of these teams would you rather be right now? Florida. New York with the better goalie and home ice. or Florida playing as well as they're playing and seeing the ice tilt. If Shisterkin comes out and steals another game or steals two more games,

it is what it is. Like, that's just, that's the way it goes. But it's not going to be because Florida has some lasting psychic damage that's, that's cropped up over the last, like, those dudes are, like,

their game is not going to change. They're going to get their chances. I don't think, I don't think there's anything to be read into it further than that. I guess that's my overall point. Yeah. Lasting psychic damage in the playoffs, you say. I don't,

I, you know, it's something, not familiar. You know nothing about. No, it doesn't, that doesn't ring any bills.

Like, sometimes the goalie can just be good. It doesn't need to be guys choking. It doesn't need to be, you know, not capitalizing on chances or, or not finishing the way that they have or whatever. The goaltender can just be really good.

There doesn't need to be any kind of, you know, any, any, uh, any, uh, any pop psychology to be done on the other team. And I, and I, and I, and I, and I guess that's, I guess that's the point that I'm trying to make. Like, if, if, if, if, if, if, if the ship's stills one, it's going to be because he steals one. Not that the panthers are gripping their sticks or whatever. Like, I saw enough last night to disabuse me of that notion. Those guys are, those guys are, those guys are going to play the way they're going to play even as, even as, even if the ship's going down in, in, in, and, and I get that. And, and, and I get that if you're a rangers fan, part of you tearing your harrow at this because you're like yeah Igor shasturkin might steal when he's the best goaltender in the league yeah we drafted this guy 10 years ago we developed him we brought him along we've seen him you know be in the Vezina race and all this stuff and like you said her goaltending is part of the sport the goalie plays and and I feel like you know some of us we don't pay

enough attention to that, partly because it's just so hard to predict. And partly because we've lagged behind on, you know, as far as analytics and all that, we don't really have it for goalies as well as we like to think. So we sort of push it away. But yeah, one of these teams has a goalie who was really good five or six years ago and then has been up and down since then. And the other one has a guy who coming into this season, you would have maybe said was either the best goalie in the league or certainly one of the top three.

has been for a few years. And if you're a Rangers fan, you're like, yeah, no kidding, our goal he might steal one. That's part of the plan. That's what this team is. That's the, that's what the, yeah, that's the, we're not doing the Aden Hill thing here. We're, you know, we've got this guy. And yeah, it could absolutely, it could absolutely still go that way. But.

And there's a need to overcomplicate things, I think, or an impulse to overcomplicate things beyond that, where it's like, you know, where it's the correlation versus causation thing, but it's like, Igor's a circling can't just be great for whatever reason. Any, like any goaltender, it's like,

oh, they're hot and goaltending is unknowable. And maybe the other guys on the other team or, or he's in their heads and blah, blah, blah. Like, it doesn't need to be that simple.

Like sometimes it is just like their guys, their guy is better than yours. And it can end there. There doesn't need to be any large. framework that this is grafted upon or any like or any you know more complex idea. Igor Shusirkin is great and he's great on his own accord and there doesn't need to be any rejoinder or any kind of, you know, extrapolation beyond that. Like that's just, it's just the way it is.

Yep. Oh, and he got beat last night by a 50 goal guy on the power play. And wide open in the slot. Like, yeah. And also one of those things, like you go back and watch. that power play goal. Like the, the Panthers win the face off and they start throwing around the points and the

Rangers guys are right there. Like, I mean, there's so many moments where you see a pass and you go, oh, that's going to get tipped. And they just work it around brilliantly. Also,

something that I think is quite rare in the playoffs is that we had an overtime goal scored on a power play. And nobody's complaining about the refs determining the game. Because that was as, clearer penalty is you can where were you on the penalty shot thing did you jump out of your seat when you saw it and go as that as the person who was in charge of filling the gaps in our postgame coverage like so as in if that goes down and let oh depending on what you know uh depending on what arthur and in russo decide to write i was shaking in my couch because i was like this is not

this is not good like if like because you because you're just because you're just you're you could see just based on the reaction. And I thought it was, I thought it was borderline. I, my, like, as far as a penalty or the penalty shot?

Penalty shot. I, I think, I think if that happens in January, I think there's a pretty good chance we see a penalty shot. And if it happens on the first period, it's, yeah.

Uh-huh. If it happens in overtime on May 28th, like not in a million years. Never. Like there was, which is zero. Which is frustrating because, for a lot of,

fans because there's no you know it the penalty shot call while it is a judgment call it's it's not right it's it's the penalty part is supposed to be the judgment call was this a hook was it a trip well you know that's up to the referee but then it's if it's a clear break away but the other half of the equation is that it has to prevent the guy from getting the shot off not any shot but it has to prevent the scoring chance so you can in theory like you're on a a breakaway. I'm chasing behind. I hack you on the hands. That's a penalty. You still get the shot. Okay, it's not a penalty shot. It's two minutes. Whereas if I hack you on the hands and you lose the puck, then that's supposed to be a penalty shot. So in theory, I mean, he did kind of still get

a bit of a shot. There was enough wiggle room there that maybe it wasn't quite as obvious as people make it out to be. But that's a penalty shot in the first period. We should thank the Florida Panthers power play for converting there. maybe not us. I'll thank them. You as somebody who would have had to 1,400 words at midnight. I'd have been up for another hour and a half for whatever, trying to turn that into something.

They bailed me out. They bailed out the officials. They bailed out the league because if they don't score on that power play, and then seven minutes later, Vinie Trochevins another face off and floats back out to the top of the slide and fires another missile past Sergey Bobrovsky like he did in the first period. The narrative course is set for the next couple days as it should have been. And we're all talking about how the officials blew it in the Rangers are going to win this series because of because of a penalty.

They didn't call the penalty shot, even though, you know, I don't know, what is what does the floor of power play run 20, 25% and, you know, penalty shots. The success rate is like 30, 35. So it's not. it it uh yeah it did it saved us from some discourse let's just say which is like i'm always i'm always down with that's our main priority is just it's just we want to we want to make this conversation as chill and and in in relax as it possibly could be we can sit so we can just float around and talk about whatever we don't have to you know talk about 15 minutes worth of uh the latest greatest let me let me ask you this shot should we not have instant replay review

on penalty shot calls? Is it time? We just got to get it right, man. Let's go. The only, there was an eye in the sky that could just magically solve all of this.

You know, we have the technology. Let's just get it right. Let's just get it right. Yeah, it's right. Oh, man. I felt bad for Blake Wheeler. I hate that he was the guy who took the penalty.

Like, that's, because it's such a great story and it's such a great. I do my every year I do the old guys without a cup and I got a couple of Ranger fans mad at me last night

because they were like how come Blake Wheeler wasn't on your list and it's like because we were told he was out for the season. Yeah you were like there was that did you see the video? Yeah. His leg is like his leg turned the wrong way

like Daffy Ducks beak like that was that that and now he's back and it's great like and you're just like oh man what a you know he had he'd been it seemed like ready to go for a while and then they didn't really have a spot in the lineup for him. So he's just, he's,

he's being the old pro, practicing hard, doing all the right things, and he finally gets in there. And it's not like, the penalty wasn't even really his fault. Like it wasn't, he wasn't the guy who made the bad pass.

And then, you know, you could, you go in. He may have saved a goal, but for him to be the guy sitting in the penalty. It was a necessary penalty to take to prevent the scoring chance, which is like example A,

did the show of a penalty shot. But whatever. Hey, did you, have you, I avoided seeing the replay of his injury back in February pretty successfully until last night. And then they showed it twice. And I was like, oh, cool. I get to, I get to see that one again. Nice.

Thank you. Yeah. I mean, you're, you're rooting for him now. Like, even if he hope he gets back in the, in the line. I mean, he certainly wasn't a big factor last night until the penalty. But, well, they have that, they have a perfect kind of situation. too where they're trying to you know I think the

line coming out of New York last night was that they were trying to conserve Philip Heel's minutes because he hasn't played that much either and it's like you want to give him a day off you don't want to throw him in a situation there where he's good for them that's not the way a lot of teams in the past at least handle this so you just drive the guys in the ground and they've still got Capo Caco sitting on the sidelines

so I don't know who knows if we'll see Blake Wheeler again in this series next game in the final, who knows. Do we have any spicy lineup potential changes for Edmonton coming into their game against Dallas? That's on Wednesday night.

Stars are up 2-1 and that 8.30 Eastern buck drop. I'm officially at the point of the playoffs where I'm losing track of what times on all the stuff is in and how that affects start time. We're at 8.30. You talk about being the guy who was on call last night. I was on call on Sunday, and I will just, I will just admit this. I thought the game was at 8 o'clock.

I was watching the end of the baseball game or something, and then like they went to Rangers Panthers on Sportsnet. And I was literally still like, oh, they're spending a lot of time on the pregame for like their game in 30 wrap up. And then the puck dropped. And I was like, oh, I'm working now. Right. Okay.

I was at a family party. I was at a family party. It was a three-year-old's birthday party. And someone mentioned it the game like in passing to me. And it was like midway through the second period. I was like, oh, right. Yeah. And you dropped a three-year-old.

Yeah. Mid-happy birthday song. Yeah. Sorry. Straight-arm out of the way. Sorry, Zoe. You're going to the emergency room because I needed to run in there and watch, you know. Jason Robertson or whatever.

Yeah, I missed, I missed, I missed, I missed most of that. That's not going to be the case tonight, though. How much of that, well, how much of the game did you end up seeing? I saw the whole thing. I did see the whole thing. Congratulations. You're better than me.

You saw the Jason Robertson offensive explosion. And that felt like, this was, this was the, the New York. Oh, God, it was, it was, it was, it was New York. It was New York game. Never mind. He was testing me. I see what you were doing there. It's been a long.

I don't know how it's Wednesday already. To the bosses that I was Holiday weekend, baby. None of the shit, none of the stuff counts. That's right.

Dallas Edmonton. Dallas Edmonton. Boy, that's I, not to, certainly not to the same extent. But because,

you know, that the Panthers dominate it. two games. But the Oilers dominated that first period. And I mean, I was watching that. And, you know, it's two nothing. I'm sitting there going, I really think these guys are going to do it.

I think the Oilers are winning the Stanley Cup. And then. No one happened. I still kind of feel that way, but it was like Dallas just found that extra level. And it was like we always, you know, every time your team plays a bad period, you're sort of like, I hope the coach just goes in and rips them. I hope they come out. And it never happens.

he said that having just lived the Sheldon Keith experience for five years. Like it never happens. But it's about to, brother, get ready for it. Yeah. It sure did for, I mean, whatever adjustments they made or whatever paint got peeled off the wall or whatever. It's,

it was a different game from that on. And, you know, Dallas comes out, they again, to use it, right, they tilt the ice.

You're, it starts, feeling inevitable that they're going to get one and instead they get three, bang, bang, bang, three in three minutes or whatever it is. And to their credit, at that point, Emmington gets the late goal. Where were you at in the second intermission? Because it's two nothing oilers after one, they're dominating. Then it's three to Dallas. Eminton gets the late goal. Are you sitting there going, all right, Dallas hulked up, but Emmington kicked out of the finisher and now we're going to finish this off with the oilers winning, or was it, you know,

Because that's kind of where I was. And again, I'm trying to stay the course with the stars just because I pick them at the start. You know, I pick them in, in October. So I'm, so I've like conditioned myself mentally to just believe in them at any possible turn just because I'd like to be right for once. I picked them to. How screwed are they that we both pick them? This is like they should just want to fast, fast forward. This isn't, this isn't going to work out.

You concede now, I think you still get like the 29th overall pick. That might be your best bet to just tap out. I think the fact that it was a struggle for either of us to, you know, again, you see the Oilers get that late goal and you're like, okay, never mind. You know, they put their, they put the chewing gum back on the dam. Like, they're going to, they're going to figure this out. The fact that we both thought that is such a testament to how far Edmontons come over the last few years, right?

And they're just so scary when, not even when everything's clicking. They're, they're terrifying when they're not playing well. And I, credit to Dallas, right? Because again, like, whether it was adjustments at the internet,

like that could have been, you give up a goal. Was it the final minute, I think even of the second period? That can deflate you, right? But not them. You know what I was surprised at?

in that third period, given all the talk around Edmonton goaltending and given the Stuart Skinner situation in the Vancouver series, it doesn't feel like a huge deal has been made out of that winning goal. The Jason Robertson kind of behind the net tucks it in. And I'm not saying that's wrong, but I'm surprised that we haven't seen more takes about that. being a really bad goal that Stuart Skinner gave up,

they could tilt a series. Like when I see a view from inside the net and the guy is like behind the net shooting the puck and it ends up in, that feels bad to me. I wonder if it's like everybody's, we've already done the Stuart Skinner is a problem. Like let's blame him for everything stuff.

And people just don't want to go back to the well. I don't know. You don't play the hits, man. this is buddy this is this is mark andre flurry uh syndrome from like 20 from like 2010 to to 2013 where he like single-handedly lost them series in in games and people just i think people just got so tired of dumping on the guy that they were like we're we're not we're not we're not actually going to do this again but yeah it was it was cool to see jason too because like so much has been made like we talk we talk about it all the time Dallas is depth and yada yada

I think a lot of it, I think when we focus on Dallas's depth, a couple things get lost, which is how good Jason Robertson in particular is on most nights and how little they've gotten him from the last, in the last week or 10 days, because you're saying Dallas is going to beat Edmonton with depth, yada, yada, yada. In some regard, that gives Dallas's high-end guys a pass where maybe they don't necessarily deserve it. He's the game breaker. Yep. they have. He's the one guy that is talented enough

to not, I'll backtrack that because I'm making it sound like, you know, all the other guys can't have a big game here or there. But he is the guy that can just say everyone, jump on my back and it kind of happened. And that scares you if you're an Oilers fan. Because he had been

quiet. Very quiet in the playoffs. One of the main reasons to believe in Edmonton being able to get this done is that hints missed so much time. Who knows how healthy He's going to be moving forward. And Robertson hadn't been good. And Pavelsky's looking like he's 39 on a lot of nights and yada, yada.

Those are the guys who are, who's Dallas's top layer of talent. And I think it gets lost in the wash because everyone loves talking about Logan Stankovan and Wyatt Johnston and, you know, Mason or whatever, like anybody up, up and down that lineup.

But they got some big boys too. And they needed a couple of them to, to break out Jason Robertson in particular like they did in that last game. And speaking of big boys, Jake Ottinger, a literally big, big, big, big guy, big, big piece of this series,

is looking big again. I wish, I wish you could see some of the TNT intermission. Because so much of it is Henrik Lundquist just being like, oh, Jake Ottinger's so tall. Oh my God.

He's like, he's like, I'm like, you guys like six, five. I'm only six, one. Like, what's anybody's supposed to do about it? Like, there's, it's wild to see Henrik Lundfus being envious of anybody for any reason. Yeah, for anything. Yeah. Good.

But that, but that dude, I'm telling you, yeah, every single, every single time he's, is, uh, he's, he's at the desk there. You can tell. He's like, I just wish I was six five. Go right. My heart breaks. Yeah. For, uh, for, for Henrik. First, first, first time.

for everything. So, okay, so now that we've, so Jason Robertson's waking up, um, Jake Ottinger looks good. Dallas is up to one. Lock it in. Oh, boy. There we go. Sorry, stars fans. Never in doubt, never in doubt, baby, from, from October all the way to late May. I didn't doubt them for a second. If, if they take it tonight, obviously, what's your pick, by the way, because you're crushing it on our, uh, every every single day I go into our daily picks and it's like five of us on one side and then you on the other and that one always comes through. So what's going on? I've abandoned my strategy from last year, which was just to pick the team that I thought was going to win the series in every single game. That's the trap that I fell into last year and I've actively tried to move away from that now.

So yeah, I think I'm nipping at Granger's heels at this point. My strategy for the last few years was to just always go the opposite of whatever felt like a normal result. And it served me well. I won one year. I think I finished like one game back, Granger, another year. Not working this year with all the favorites. Hockey gods got me with expectations. But yeah, who you got tonight?

Give us a spoiler. I'm just trying to beat you out, dude. That's all the manners. I just want to win on percentage for the podcast. As long as that happens, I don't care what Curse does or Shane does. I feel like you're pretty close to locking it up, man, because this is a rebuild year for me. If this was, if this was an NHL season, I'd be trading, I'd be trading some of my veterans right now.

I'm going Dallas because I feel like I do, you know, we're talking about with the way that game ended, like what route do you take? I feel like, I feel like there might be some kind of hangover effect here for them. And if Robertson starts to cook and we see, you know, the best of Jake Ottinger, you know, Dallas with a with a two one series lead, I think they got a really, really good chance of a healing business. All right. And I picked Edmonton. So, I mean, you should just, you should just be trying to make up ground at this point. How about this? You know what? I should be. And that's, that's the strategy, right? Wait, be the last guy to pick. And I was,

for as long for as long as this goes on i'll make sure to get my pick in early and you can just go you can go against me if you want thank you yeah that's that's i i remember the year that i beat granger towards the end it like became very strategic where it was the uh well what was uh 21 it was the montreal year and i remember i was like i figured out i'm like if i pick uh just Tampa the rest of the way i can't lose because like they'll either win the series or i'm going to run out the clock it was Basically, I was taking a knee on grade. Last year, last year, last year, last year, last year, last year, last year, last year, last year, last year, last year. So I, so I, so I would pick, I would just pick with him down the stretch.

So I'm like, Kim, guy, I was, he was, he was nipping in my heels. So I was, I'm way behind. In fact, I'm, I just got to stay at a last. I got to stay ahead of Julian. Maybe that's the strategy at this point. Because I'm, whatever it takes, man. Yeah. We're going to come back for segment two, uh, before, before that though, we'd like you to

no. We're producing great podcast here throughout the podcast network. Full time with Meg Lanahan, one of the best soccer shows on Earth, is back just in time for a huge summer for women's soccer. Check out this week's episode where Meg and co-host Tamara Griffin preview Emma Hayes' first game is head coach of the U.S. women's national team on Saturday against South Korea. We and Sean will be back in one second with more of the athletic hockey show. All right, we're back. We got some news and notes here. There is other stuff going on around the league. Donned to playoff series. I was unaware of this until a couple of days ago, Sean.

The league rolls on unabated. Yeah. Don Waddell being introduced today in Columbus as the big hockey boss. I feel like that's taken a day or two longer than it should have. I feel like this is something that was reported a week ago. Yeah, one of those weird stories where the official confirmation comes well after it felt like we all knew what was happening, but maybe not. I think of anything, the news here beyond what it was a couple days ago is that he is coming in as president of hockey ops and general manager.

Correct. Because originally there had been some thought that maybe he would be coming as president, maybe there would be room for somebody else to come in as GM or he'd come in on an interim basis. probably run the show for a bit, but it doesn't sound like that. Sounds like he is. I mean, he can focus,

he can focus all his energies on hockey. He doesn't have to worry about booking an arena or dealing with all the business side stuff that he had to deal with in Raleigh down the stretch there because that's what, there are other places, there are other people in Columbus who are, who are kind of tasked with that.

So I would imagine that's a, that's a, that's a desirable kind of thing for Don. You can just be, be a hockey guy again. And getting a raise, I think we can safely assume, which is impossible to do it for people who are in Carolina for a variety of reasons, it seems like. Yeah, when you're when when when when you're chasing the big money in Columbus, that's grim. Grim, grim, grim, grim.

But yeah, he's he's he's the guy. He's he's running that show. He is not simply coming in a, you know, not not not that he would. he's very accomplished for what he did in Carolina and what he was part of. But he's the guy. It doesn't sound like there's anyone else coming in. I saw an interesting bit of news from Portie, Aaron Portsline a couple days ago. This was on Monday.

Not certain yet, Aaron says, but indication is that Don Waddell, the soon-to-be-introduced new head of CBJ hockey operations, will be allowed to sit at the Blue Jackets draft table next month in Las Vegas. doesn't sound as if Waddell had significant input on the hurricane's draft preparations. That's interesting to me. It's interesting. Yeah. Not because I mean, I think we kind of understand the way the hierarchy was in Carolina by the time that was over.

But what's interesting to me is for Columbus, when you're an org who historically, famously, to the detriment of the organization, failed to get the draft right. right they've wet how many big picks have they whiffed on over the course of the last 25 years i'm not sure the course of action for me would be to hire a gm who is disengaged enough with the draft to have not to have very little to do with it over to the point where he's allowed to where he's allowed to sit with a blue jacket to not engage in the kabuki theater like last year where we had to pretend Kyle dubus like wasn't wasn't talking to the penguins or or whatever Interesting strategy. Sit at home without his cell phone and yeah.

Right. Or I don't know. Maybe this is just finally two teams just acknowledging the obvious. I was going to be a smart aleck and say like, you know, that now Columbus can't jump up and take a guy 25 picks ahead of Carolina or wherever the difference. But because it's such a big gap, actually the rollover from round to round. Like the Carolina first round pick and the Columbus second round pick is not that far away. It'd be interesting if Columbus jumped ahead of Carolina on a guy, right?

Because maybe, maybe, I don't know, maybe Donnie overheard something in the water cooler. Walking by the room, I'll remember that name. Hey, wait a second. I remember that name is some Finnish kid who's getting, he's getting picked in the fourth round. It's unbelievable. It's the most NHL, like that is such an NHG. HL move where it's like it seemed like we were at the point now where it's like, okay, if you're a GM who hops from one team to another,

ahead of the draft, you're just not allowed to sit at the table. It might be, it might be theater. It might be, you know, whatever. It might be only for appearances. But that's fine.

That's just the way it goes. Now it's like, ah, it's like, Dodd didn't really do any, didn't really do anything with the end with your scouting staff. So we'll just let it go. You know what I want?

Here's my pitch. I think when a guy, a big front office guy switches teams before the draft, he shouldn't be allowed to sit at the table, but literally he shouldn't be allowed to sit at the table. Like I want the little like kiddie Thanksgiving card table set up where the guys like just three feet off to the side by himself, just sitting there.

Just give Don, just give Don like an iPad or something. So you can watch Bluey off to the side while everybody else does the work. Yeah, you can go down to the basement and play Mario Party with the kids. Somebody. which is something something I something I literally did two days ago by the way

oh dude it's it's a crushing moment when you get told like you get to stay with the grownups and you're like I want to go down there man it's like you're 28 please come with the app no I want to go downstairs and play you know play minisk Alders 8 3 speaking of very NHL things can I just let me get this off my chest this is the

the statement that was put out announcing the Don Waddell thing. This is the very first sentence. I'm not cherry picking anything. This is their big lead. The Columbus Blue Jackets announced today. Longtime NHL executive, Don Waldell has agreed to a multi-year contract to serve as the club's president of hockey operations, general manager,

and alternate governor. Can we please tell the NHL that none of us know what governors do? And they can stop telling us who are the governors and certainly who are the alternate governors? Like, I don't know who he's alternating with. I don't know what set of circumstances would have to occur for this alternate governor to have to step in and govern. I don't know what they do. I know the board of governors meets once a year. Nothing ever happens.

I feel like we could bury that further down and not have it be a headline item. Yeah, but then Don wouldn't be able to wear the A on the lapel of his sports coat. That's what we should. do you know what i'm going to start doing i'm going to start calling it assistant governor and see if like anybody all the most annoying people in the world get really mad at me see if the see if the biggest peddance on n hl twitter jump up and sit it's actually hold on oh okay oh are you saying i'm off sides on that oh oh here comes a different guy oh oh okay well i'll just put on my hockey jersey oh no here it comes again i got i got an a d style book too i can be i can be a jerk if i want to anyways good

good for Don Waddell and here's hoping he can work his way up to full-time governor. But you got to serve your time. You got to, yeah. There's a whole succession process in place. Maybe if Don Waddell is an NHL executive for 40 more years, he'll be able to jump up the full-time, full-time governor status. Fingers crossed. Scale of 1 to 10, how surprised are you to see Dan Biles make another head coaching job? This summer, 8 out of 10.

overall probably six maybe like that that had been a name that had sort of faded i i was wondering this yesterday did he did we hear about him interviewing for any other jobs this year this year that's a good question i don't i don't i don't remember his name i don't remember his name popping up like he had he the the last that we really saw from him at the nachel level was you know obviously he went pittsburgh to buffalo and then he he was in Detroit. Remember, he was brought in. Yep.

And everybody was like, oh, okay, so this is the next. They're going to fire. They're going to fire Blaschell finally. Sure. And he's going to step in. And then it just never happened. And, and, you know, obviously he'd been the HL coach, you know, with the connection to Seattle.

So, I mean, you would expect that, that if there was going to be any team that he would talk to, it would be them. But I guess I didn't, it didn't, like, you didn't see him his name, which doesn't mean that, no. Nobody talked to him or nobody reached out, but it did feel a little bit like, oh, right, they still make that. I guess I was surprised that Seattle fired Hacks Stall. Like, that was one that I just kind of figured they would maybe, I don't, I just thought maybe they would start a new season with him selling the job and keep them on a, keep them on a short leash. And then, you know, in December, whenever the Cracken, once again, aren't shooting 23% as a team or whatever, whatever they were this season before.

four last, that's when you make the move and that's when you call up, that's when you call up Bilesma from Coachella Valley. But as soon as, as soon as Seattle, uh, dumb tax, I, my assumption, I guess, was that was that, was that he would be the guy? So like I, was I, was I, was I, was I, was I, you know, shocked? No. I, I, problem probably at a three. Maybe that's, the, the, the puzzle piece is is, is connect our two thoughts, which is, maybe the, that's why Seattle moved on from Dave Haxel. Maybe there was interest in Bilesman and, you know, word is getting out that, hey, you know, some teams might want to talk to him.

So you say, well, we're going to make the move now because we might not have access to this guy in January or February. But I mean, I wasn't, I wasn't surprised Haxel went. I was much more surprised that he was hired in the first place three years ago. Right. It's, that's the irony of it is that I had finally sort of in turn. the idea that Haxstall was their coach and he's in it seemed like maybe he had some cat and like I this past season before they made the playoffs I figured he was already you know on the on the on the short list to to get fired in season and they come out and never everything's great

and they make the playoffs and everyone's happy and went around things things change yeah things changes things change pretty quickly is is there any do you think there's any heat on Ron Francis three years into this I mean it it because on the one hand, two years they missed the playoffs. We saw what Vegas did, which unrealistically tilts everything. But definitely a step back last year, not a great prospect system, partly because they had a little bit more success than they may be expected. On the other hand, it feels like if we're only giving GMs of expansion teams three years, then what are we doing here? Like, I mean, that he's on his second coach already, man. That's never,

that's just never a good sign. I don't care if it's an expansion team or if you're, whatever, the GM of didn't feel like Maple Leafs. Like I did see, he really made hay at the expansion draft. And again, like, accepting that the Golden Knights skewed expectations. And, and, you know, there has to be a middle ground between Vegas Golden Knights going to the final in year one and Atlanta Thrashers. But, I think for as over their head as they were in year two, I think regression came for them almost too hard last. Like it was like the pendulum swung way even further in the other direction.

So I, my anticipation is that they'll be better. But like, I think so much this hinges on Maddie Baneers, man. Like, this was not. He's the only franchise level guy that they have in the organization three years in. And he wasn't, and he wasn't very good. past season, right? It wasn't just, it wasn't just a low shooting percentage. It wasn't just bad luck. That was part of it. That was the only factor. Like, that guy needs to take a step forward as a, as a point producer. And if he, and if he does, they'll be fine. And if he doesn't, they'll be

up a creek. Like, it's as simple as that. So much of what they do range on that. We're still waiting. And look, I mean, this year of any year has been the reminder to, you know, maybe settle down on expectations for some of these guys a couple years in because we saw it with Quint Byfield, Alexis at Frenier looks fantastic now, four years in. So you know, you get some patience. But I just, I just wonder. It's been an uninspiring Java team building in Seattle right now. Sheldon Keith introduces Devils coach.

He said, among other things, he's a far better coach than when he started. Sean McIndoo, how does that hit you? Yeah, of course he is. He should be. He's a young coach who just did his first job. I mean, if his first NHL job, if he doesn't feel like a better coach coming out of it than he was going in, then we'd have a problem. I honestly, I'm extremely diplomatic stuff from you. I wish him well.

I honestly have no ill will against the guy. It was well past time for a change in Toronto. And yes, I rolled my eyes right into the back of my head so many times over the years. at some of the stuff that he said. But, yeah, I mean, like this is not, you know, there are times. Or as a sports fan, you see somebody leave an organization and you're like, I hope they crash and burn. Like, I wish nothing but misery for you.

But this is, this is not that. Let them, let them go and have success in, in Jersey. And it'll be, it'll be an interesting situation for him because certainly, you know, when he says, oh, I'm a better coach and I've learned things, you hope. So you hope he's learned a few things if you're if you're a devil's fan because if you get the exact same Shelton Keith making the exact same mistakes that he tended to make in Toronto, then that's not good. Also, we don't necessarily know how much of what was frustrating about him in Toronto may have been coming from from up above, you know, from Kyle Dubas, Brendan Shanahan, whoever. Like there were there were times where he would extremely mildly call out star players.

And then the next day we'd be up there like, I apologize. I'm sorry to Mitch Martiner for, you know, all this stuff. And you kind of roll your eyes going, oh, man, this guy's, this guy doesn't have it as a coach to really get. Well, who knows? Maybe that came from somewhere else. Maybe we'll find out in Jersey. Or maybe not. Maybe we'll get the exact same guy that we've had for four or five years.

I just think it's going to be a really interesting first round of the playoffs whenever the Maple Leafs lead the Eastern Conference and points and face the wild card New Jersey devil. That's what we've been trying to figure out. Or is it going to be the other way? Are the devil's going to finish first and the Leafs are the wild card? I think it really, and then does it become, I think it has to be the least finishing first because then the devils get to come into Toronto and win a game seven with Shiland. I feel like that's the way that it's got to go. Okay.

Good to know. Jack Hughes scoring the hat, the American-born franchise center just elevates his game in the playoffs. That'll be good. Too easy. It's going to be fun. I'm just glad we agree on that. Sean, we got breaking news. The Chris Johnston free agent big board dropped, I believe, right around the time we started recording here.

Big day. One of my favorites, because you get not just the list. You get the projected contracts. We love it. Which is always very fun. And I gotta say, man, like, this is a, this is a decent free agent cry. This is the time of year where we always go, oh, nobody hits free agency, the free agents aren't good. But for whatever reason, this year's not bad.

Like, this is if this group gets to July 4th, and maybe that's part of it is that we're doing this in May and there's still a month for all these guys to resign. But if this is July 1st, it's going to be a fun day. I did radio in Salt Lake City last week. and I've gone on with these guys a couple times. And the whole hook for them is like, hey, we don't really know anything about the NHL. So can you come on every couple weeks and like, we'll ask, we'll ask you some, ask you some dynamic I have with you. I think it's the same dynamic we have with whoever we talk to.

Or it's like, yeah, please, please actually tell me stuff because I don't, I in fact don't know anything about anything. But they asked about the free agent class last week. and I hadn't thought about it all that much. And I, you know, the three seconds where it's like my mental Rolodex hits, you know, the cap friendly page. And I'm like, I was like, you know what? I think it's fine.

That was basically my top line. I was like, yeah, there's, there's players. There's dudes who can help. And I think that's truer this year than it has been, than it has been especially, especially in the recent past. So let's go down the list. because, and let's just pretend all these guys actually hit free agency. Number one, not surprisingly, Sam Reinhard.

57 goals in a contractor, is that good? Feels good. I think that's probably pretty solid. 57 goals, he's by the time this is all said, like whatever, huge playoff goal last night, too. By the time it's all said and done, he could have a couple more of those. So my man, Samson, just keeps driving his price tag up. A big, big fan. The projection here is seven years and a, we'll say a hair under $11 million.

That's $1.89. That's Mitch Marner money. This guy think he is. How dare he gunned from Mitch Marner money? The contract projections, we should say, are from evolving hockey, which does a great a great job on that. They're kind of scary accurate by the time. They're scary accurate, but also they are, you know,

based on the overall numbers and that and not specific situations. You will get to some guys where, you know, it feels like the other circumstances come into play. I don't know if you know the shot. The tax rates in Florida are not as high as they are in some other places. I am now. My goal is to never bring that up with. in any capacity.

I don't want to, I don't want to be the person that scoffs a tax rate and I don't want to be the person that acts like it's the single determining factor on every decision made by professional athletes in the year 2020.

It's somewhere in between, in my opinion. So is Sam Reinhardt getting to free agency or are we just hyping ourselves up and he's just going to resign with the Florida Panthers? Because honestly, that seems like a pretty good situation

he's got going on down there. I can't imagine him leaving. I can't. And I think there's so much stuff that they've done there over the last year or nine months to set themselves up to be in a position to keep him around long term. So we can sit here on May 29th and have fun and act like, you know, we're going to be doing a free agent frenzy. Where does Sam Reinhard end up? But I think that I think that would be a major, major, major upset. Well, then let's go to player number two who does seem more likely to potentially be on the move.

Jake Gunsell. seven years, 9.6 million projected. Is he going in it? Okay, let me, is he, is he on the move? Because we know Carolina's situation

is tight and not to mention in flux with, with Waddell having left. Is he going anywhere other than Carolina or back to Pittsburgh? Because that's the other He is,

I don't think he's going to go back to Pittsburgh. Okay. That's not based on any kind of you know, insider information, but I think every arrow is pointing towards that being, you know, a divorce.

Is that from his side or from the team side? I think it's more from his side, yeah. Okay. I don't think Jake is particularly thrilled with how stuff worked out at the end. And, um, you know, I,

I think he could get just as much money, if not more elsewhere. And also probably sign with a better team. Like, let's, let's get, let's get real. And,

as disappointing as that probably is on sub-level for penguins fan. If it's going to be a seven-year deal, it's not the worst thing in the world for them to not be... They need to... Chasing yet another guy in that age range. Pittsburgh needs to be... We know what's going to happen here. They're going to sign a couple guys to three-year deals

so they can, you know, three-four-year deals so they can get to the end of whatever extension Crosby signs here. and then that's going to be, that's going to be the end of it. I don't think, I don't think you'd need to be putting yourself in a position if you're Pittsburgh,

where you're paying 36-year-old Jake Genssel, $10 million against the salary cap. So it just seems like a relationship that's, uh, that's run its course. I think the situation in Caroline is super interesting. And you mentioned the flux there before. Um, how much it seemed like he was enjoying himself down the stretch there?

Caroline is as good a team as you're going to sign as any on the open market. They have the money to do it if they want. I think there's a whole bunch of it's in flux. But I mean, Eric Tolstke is still there. So it's not like they're completely adrift without Don Waddell. Like they had a good system in place. They've lost the nominal head of the pyramid. it, but I think if, I think if, uh, if Jake Gensel re-signs in Carolina, the number is not going to be

any different than it would have been had, had Don Waddell been there versus Eric Tulski versus versus, versus anybody else. Like, I think that number is going, I think that number is going to be the number for, for Jake Gensel. But it, but man, it is, it's interesting because there's boxes checked in each column where you're like, I can, I can see him coming back there or I can see and going somewhere else because, you know, I do kind of respect the fact that Gensel hasn't just blindly resigned there because that's something we see so often, so often from players from major,

from major deadline acquisitions where it's like, okay, like I'm like, these guys are offering me the money. I'd be stupid not to take it. Like it's, well, and yeah, but a lot of times they get there and it's like,

okay, let's do the playoffs. Let's focus on that. And then, you know, it's still a month. But, I mean, you talk about the deadline. It's not even just the deadline.

How often do we see guys get traded? They need a new contract. They get a new contract. It ends up being a big mistake. They get overpaid. The team, you know, Jonathan Hubertoe being an example a couple years ago. Seth Jones, go on down the list. I've written about this a few times.

The shiny new toy. You trade for a guy. Everybody goes, great trade. What a great player. What a great fit. And then you're sitting there going, oh, I get. we got to give him his money. So that is a situation where, you know, yep, producer Jeff is saying Bo Horvett was another one that

is both, you know, signed quickly and then, you know, Lulu Amarillo famously saying it was too much money and, and, you know, all this other stuff. Which is, you always want to hear. I think, I think Jake Gansel made himself some more money during, during that last run, during the run to the playoffs with Carolina and then in those two rounds. Like I think if there is any lingering concern over him, you know, being Sydney Krazi creation or whatever you want to call it, I think he,

I think he experienced that pretty quickly. Next guy on the list, a guy that I, I mean, I don't think any of us think is going to get to July 1st, but let's see, Stephen Stamco's, they got a figure out, right? three years yet then that's the question also the projection on him is three years eight point four million dollars

yeah which again that that is a project this is he's making 8.5 now yeah I mean I think he gets that somewhere for sure but gets that from the Pittsburgh penguins obviously so he well yeah so here's a question does he just want to stay in Tampa so badly that'll take less or is he ticked off that this hasn't come he doesn't seem like he's thrilled

with the way it with the way this no he doesn't right like this is yeah okay i don't i i love that i love that three years i love that three years eight point five projection because i i feel like everybody thinks he's either going back to tampa or that he's signing with their team for less because he's you know like well once tampa's guy like he'll definitely want to come play in toronto he'll want to play with sidney crosbie he'll want to play with whoever this that and you know I don't know. What's the funniest outcome of Stephen Stamco's? The funniest stampcoe?

League minimum in Florida? Yeah, let's go. I think it would probably be him signing with Utah. The face of the Utah hotline. Someone said that in the comments this week. I haven't been able to stop thinking about it. League minimum with the Panthers. That's it.

He can sign the deal that Eric Stahl signed a couple years ago or whatever. Great. Number four, Elias Lindelm. Seven year projection,

7.99 Schmelt. He's a good center. He's a youngish center on a market where those are in short supply. Someone's going to pay that, dude. He's pencil,

in with the Bruins? Do we just feel like out of everything? Yeah. Especially if Stamco's and Reinhardt have signed. Brady Shea at 5. Brandon Montor at 6. Jonathan Marchesot at number 7. Let's open this one up, baby.

This is another one. It's Stamcoast Light where, you know, he's not, wasn't the number one overall draft back, hasn't spent his entire career with Tampa, but he's, you know, is synonymous with Vegas is you're going to find any other player. When's the Kunt Smythe last year? It's the best regular season of his career. I mean, this dude's getting paid. Like, it's time.

It's time for someone to open up the wallet for him. Yes. And, I mean, we talk about Reinhardt not wanting to leave Florida or wherever. I mean, I don't think you're leaving Vegas to go sign with, you know. Probably not. I was going to say Colise again. He's also 33 years old, John. Jonathan March is so.

Smaller guy, but at the same time, I feel like this, we make a big deal out of how heartless and ruthless the Goldenites front office is. If they let Jonathan Marshalls a walk, that's, I mean, man, that is, what else do you want from somebody? Also, like, over what, too? Like, this isn't going to be a guy who gets a seven-year, $68 million offer from somebody, right? Like, there's not, there's, there's, there's not going to be some psychotic offer from, from some other team.

Like, let's just, I want this, I want this one to happen. I want, I want, I want Vegas to show us that, it's, they're not just run by, you know, whatever. Cyborgs. I was going to say spreadsheets or some weird consulting company. And, like, this is both a guy who should sign with his current team and will get something crazy. If he, I mean, this guy, Kant's might.

winner. Heart and soul. Absolutely. There's going to be jams going, this is the guy that we need. Yeah, see, you're making me, you're making me regret framing it, that one. Someone, maybe, maybe he will get the bag. Give me somebody else on the list as you scroll down that, that you're excited about. Oh, man. I'm excited for the Leafs to sign Max Delmi for six years and $36 million. I think that's going to be a lot of fun.

Sounds good, yeah. I like Christanaff, buried down there, 25. I can't believe Christenev is that low. I know he's got city miles on him, right? Like, he's played with a lot of injuries over the last couple of years, and he plays hard. But him being at 25 is kind of shocking to me. I'm trying to scroll through the rest of this list.

This is where, like, it's interesting at the top, and then as you get a little bit, as you get a little bit deeper, it gets a little bit, it gets a little bit more boring, honestly. Jake DeBrusk fascinates me because that guy, like the Hallmark, he's at 15. Projections five years, 5.8. His career has fascinated me because he's been in and out of trade room or is always with Boston. There's been times where he's looked like pencil him in as a 35 or 40 goal score for the next five years and then and then he then he'll disappear for a couple months like the consistency just

hasn't been there for him over the course of his career but when but when he's good he's really good and uh and man he's still he's still he's still a he's still a young dude he's still only 27 years old so that's a fascinating one for me i think that one has like that's a that's a risk there's there's big uh there's major potential but also but also some uh you know some some some some blow up potential on the other side of it. Where are you? Is there another person you like or is TANF your lower rank guy? I mean, TANF would be the guy.

Matthew Shane is, I think they had him at eight. That would be an interesting one. Patrick Kane will be fascinating. I don't know if that's somebody that you necessarily want to chase. And then I guess the last one would be Chandler-Stevenson at 13. That's a good one. Here's a guy that has been absolute bargain. Oh, my God.

He said, I truly signed to one of the best contracts in the sport over the last bunch of years. That is a 50 person list, too. I feel like that's even, that's even longer than it's been in points in the last couple years. So good work by CJ. Keep in mind, your favorite team will probably only sign 40 to 45 of those guys. So don't get your hopes up. And only, in only 25 to 30 those will take drastically below market rates. So leave minimum.

Temporier. Unless your, unless your team is in a. high tax state or province in which case you will have to pay the max. Just how it works. It's a math, folks. We're out of here, folks. That's it for us. Sean,

do you have any messages for Frankie that you want to pass along since this has been our first week without them? Enjoy Sagina, buddy. Just enjoy the experience. Get out, see the sites. Just go out and brief. Put your phone down and experience the moment. Celebrate Saginaa.

I think that's... I think it's very funny that you think Frank listens to the show. when he's not on. I know for a fact that he does. How about that? Frank's a pro, dude. He does whatever he takes. Okay.

Thank you folks for listening to the athletic hockey show, especially you, Frankie Carrado, who is certainly, has this on your headphones right now. Thursday, it's Max, it's me.

Haley will be on in some capacity as she recovers from the end of the PWHL finals, which is happening tonight. So watch that on their YouTube stream. It's the deciding game between Boston and Minnesota.

Haley is on site in Lowell, Massachusetts for that one. So she'll be around in some capacity tomorrow. And we will be back next Wednesday with Frank, supposedly, assuming he doesn't just

buy a house in Saganah and live there for the rest of his life. Couldn't blame him. That's the way it goes. Have a good week.