The Athletic Hockey Show - Hockey Hall of Fame Class of 2022, Lindy Ruff gets an apology from New Jersey Devils fans, author Theresa Bailey talks “Hockey Moms”, Multiple Choice Madness, and more

Episode Date: November 14, 2022

Ian and Julian are back with a brand new Monday episode of The Athletic Hockey Show to discuss the 2022 Hockey Hall of Fame class, the character and values of inductees Daniel Alfredsson and the Sedins, and the guys hand out this week’s Jack Adams Winner of the Week award and wrap things up with some Multiple Choice Madness.Plus, author Theresa Bailey joins the show to talk about the new book she co-authored, “Hockey Moms: The Heart of the Game”, including conversations with the moms of NHLers Auston Matthews, Conor McDavid, and the Tkachuks.Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowGet a 6 month subscription to The Athletic for just $1 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Welcome back to a Monday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. It's Ian Mendez, Julian McKenzie, with you for the next hour. We're going to chat all things, Hall of Fame, as the induction ceremonies will take place here on Monday. We'll bounce around the NHL. Look at some surprising stories. We'll chat with a woman by the name of Teresa Bailey,

who is part of a brand-new book out called Hockey Moms. She interviewed Connor McDavid's mom, Austin Matthews' mom, the Kachuk brothers' mom. Anyway, it's a great read and look at some unique hockey stories. So Teresa's going to drop by the pod a little bit later. We'll hand out our Jack Adams Award of the week. So we've got a lot to get to here, my man, Julian. But I got to start this off, okay?

Yes. Got to start off this Monday show with a personal anecdote from last night. Okay? So we're recording this on Monday. I'm in Toronto for the Hall of Fame weekend. Now, you know I'm a big Dallas Cowboys fan, right? Yes, yes. You know that the athletic senior NHL writer, Pierre LeBron,

is also a big Dallas Cowboys fan. Very aware of that. Chris Johnson is also a Dallas Cowboys fan. You're supposed to be all miserable together. Yeah, exactly. So here's the thing. So LeBron sends me a text on the weekend, says, Hey, Ian, are you coming down to Toronto for the Hall of Fame?

Fame induction weekend. If you are, come by my place. I'm going to have some people over. We'll just watch some NFL or whatever. And he's like, you know, we're going to start with Cowboys Packers and we're just kind of hang out. I'm like, hey, this is, this is great, right? Thomas Drance, who's here comes to Vancouver Connect.

Drance was going over. I was like, yeah, house, count me in. I'll go, right? That's a hangout. Okay. So I'm running around covering this Hall of Fame Legends game. I used the term game very loosely. Okay.

So this was at Scotia Bank Arena on Sunday. Julian, this is, you know, like Matt Sundeen and Daniel Alfredson and the Siddins and Wendell Clark and Lindross. They're all out there playing. But it's not really, it's like a, it's like the Harlem Globetrotters, right? Like they're like one of those, no one's really taking it seriously. You know when you see the Globetrotters play? You've never seen the Globetrotters play, have you? One of my, one of my dreams is weird to say dream, but one thing I've, I had always watched.

wanted to do as a child, and I never got that opportunity, was to watch the Harlem Globetrotters play. They would always come around Montreal? Yeah, but here's the thing. Not only would they always come around, they would always come around, like, early April. And like, my birthday is around that time. And like, just for whatever reason, it just never, just never worked out that way where I was able to watch the Harlem Globe Traders. So one day, before my time on earth is done, I will watch the Harlem Globetrotters in person. Oh no, I'm just picturing little Julian sitting on his, you know, on his porch around his birthday time thinking it, they got it.

Somebody, somebody got me the Globetrotters tickets. This is the year. And he's just waiting on the porch. Yeah. And nothing happens. Socks again. Anyway, so this thing is like a loosey-goosey game, but I got to be there because there's, you know, there's some people speaking after the game. But I tell LeBron, look, I'm going to finish.

up with this. I'm going to race over. I'll take an Uber to your place, watch the game. So I jump in the Uber, get to LeBron's place. Cowboys are up 2814. And I'm like, yeah, man, this is great. We're going to watch the Cowboys win together, whatever. Well, I show up. The Packers outscore the Cowboys 17-0, and I'm not sure I'll ever be invited to watch a Cowboys game with Pierre LeBron again. That's what I think. Did you curse the Cowboys? Yeah, that's what I think. I think he's going to have a bad association with me and the Dallas Cowboys. I think he may never watch a game with me again. Oh, my God.

It was funny. I was watching that game and I texted CJ just like, man, like your boys. And he immediately wrote back too soon. Like you guys were taking that hard. You guys are taking that loss hard. That's tough. Oh, man. Like, because you know, for you.

What is it with hockey media members and liking the Dallas Cowboys? I don't know. It's a weird thing. But, like, you know, for years, like so Sean McIndoo and I, down goes brown, we do the Thursday edition of the podcast. And we always say, how come we've never gotten the invite to Pierre LeBron's cottage? You know, you see these tweets in the summertime of all these writers. I'm at LeBron's cottage.

McIdo and I are like, man, we're not that far away. You know, we're in Ontario, you know, kind of raising our arms. Nothing. But I'm like, okay, this is the first step to a cottage invite is NFL Sunday. And now I kind of feel like LeBron's going to have a bad association with me. He's like, that guy's jinxie. I'm not inviting jinxie back to another game. Well, here's the thing, though, right?

Like, the cottage is a summer cottage. I mean, the Dallas Cowboys already won't be playing by then. So, like, there's no way unless like he invites you and it happens to be around like the Hall of Fame game, which is like near the end of the summer. Yeah, in August. Yeah, in August. They're like, Pierre LeBron is so dead set on you not being around for, the Hall of Fame game. Look, you are still steps ahead from getting that invite to Pierre

LaBron's cottage. I don't know when I'll ever get that invitation. He's, you know, I see him around and he's a good dude to, you know, hang around. I think he's an April baby just like I am and all that too, but actually, do it. Hold on. Just stop. Just stop right there. I think he's the same birthday as me. You need to stop right there. How would you know Pierre LeBron's, like, how do you know that he's an April birthday. I wouldn't know. No, he's the same birthday as me, I think. I have to double check this.

I think him and I have the same birthday. Do you think little Pierre got to go to a Globetrotters game, like on his 12th birthday? Yeah, I think he would. April 11th, apparently. Yep, that's my birthday. We have the same birthday. You guys are birthday buddies?

We're birthday buddies. Yeah. I don't know what to do with this information. What other celebrities are on your birthday? You know, you ever look up these things and you're like, you see the burnt days you have? So what are we got for celebrities? Like hockey world or?

Not a lot of crazy celebrities, but Vancouver Canucks legend. And I believe one time on Shaw Canadian, Trevor Linden. One time New York Islander, Trevor Linden. One time Washington Capitol, Trevor Linden. Yes. Former Tottenham Hotspur star, Delhi Alley also has April 11th as the same birthday. Trying to think of other celebs who have that day.

Joss Stone. Anyone remember the singer Joss Stone? Top Gear, Jeremy Clarkson, also. April 11th? That's pretty much it, unless I'm missing... Yeah, that's basically it. April 11th, for whatever reason, is not the most remarkable...

Birthday, I guess. Oh, okay. Summer Walker, the R&B singer is also April 11th. That's interesting. I didn't know that. Yeah, it's just April 11th, just for whatever reason, you know. You and LeBron. Okay, so the next time they, that's right around the time the playoffs start.

You and LeBron need to get together, have a joint birthday party at like Chuck E. Cheese or something, you know? Two of you together. Don't you think I'm a little too groan for Chuckie Cheese? Pierre, I don't know, but what about me? I'm kidding, I'm kidding. Just one chance to see you guys at Chuckie Cheese would be gold.

You know, for me, so I'm a late December birthday, December 28th, to be exact. So when you have a late December birthday, there's not a lot of hockey people who share that birthday because, as you know, when you're born in late December, it's, you're usually one of the youngest, smallest, whatever, right? You're usually disadvantaged physically growing up. Like, it's, you know, you've seen all the studies

that, oh, January birthdays are better for, you know, hockey. Yeah, I read a bit of outliers. Yeah, exactly. Like, that's the Gladwell stuff. Anyway, though, but Raymond Bork has the same birthday as me. But I hated that as a kid because I was a Habs fan as a kid. So I was like, you tell me the only NHLer of like consequence plays for the team that I might

hate the most as a kid in Ray Bork? That must be so tough. But that being said, though, like, as someone who, uh, I mean, I was not really around for the hey day of Raymond Bork. My one memory of Raymond Bork is him doing the greatest cup raise of all time. When he lifts the Stanley Cup of the Colorado, for me, like, it's one thing to just watch him lift the cup with the Colorado Avalanche. I think for the full maximum effect, you need to watch the ESPN Gary Thorne call of Raymond Bork lifting it. You hear him describe the cup.

And then you hear him say after 22 years, Raymond Bork, I remember when I was interning for the Syracuse Crunch, the AHL affiliate during my one year there living there for grad school. The play-by-play guy at the time for the Syracuse Crunch was a man by the name of Dan Dove, who has since moved on to call Vegas Golden Knights games on radio. He grew up a New Jersey Devils fan. And there was another intern, a good friend of mine by the name of Logan Grossman, also. New Jersey Devils fans. Raymond Bork won that cup at the expense of the New Jersey Devils. And I remember

talking about the cup raise and reciting like Gary Thorne calling it. And as I'm like describing it, I'm like saying and after 22 years, Raymond Borker, they both got mad and they're like, stop it, stop, stop, shut up, stop, that, that's how that's how iconic that call is. The Devils won the cup the year before.

They won it two years later. like settle down. It wasn't like that was your only chance to win a cop. Like, come on God, guys. There are people on this earth right now who have never seen their team win a playoff series, let alone a Stanley Cup. Like, it's all good, devil's fans.

Yeah. Do you remember? So Raymond Bork wins the cup in Colorado in the summer of, like, whatever, spring summer of 2001. And that year, he takes the cup back to Boston. Like, they had a parade for him in Boston, because that's where he was, I'll spend the bulk of his career.

And I'll never forget, you'll laugh at this. I swear, I swear this happened. I'm not making this up. But Ray Bork takes the cup back to Boston and there's a huge parade and a rally and he's at the microphone. And if you remember the sitcom, everybody loves Raymond.

Yeah. Right? Was big at the time. Ray Bork has the cup in front of all these Bruins fans in Boston. And he says, and I'm going to paraphrase here, but it's something along the lines of, he gets up to the microphone and he's like,

everybody loves Raymond, but Raymond loves you. And the place goes bananas. I'm like, this is just pure cheese. Everybody loves Raymond, but Raymond loves you. That is so cheesy.

It's good for Boston. It's great for Boston. That's a city that has never won anything in its life. I'm sure they'll hold on, they'll hold on to Raymond Bork winning that cup for a long, long time. At the time, at the time in 2001,

it's before the Patriots dynasty, before the Red Sox in 2008, before the... I know. So there was a little bit of a drug there. I know. I don't know if you realize, but that comment about Boston was dripping in sarcasm. Yeah. Absolutely. You know what? I think what was really cool, too, for me, just to get back to the Hall of Fame stuff. So Lanny McDonald is in the building yesterday and he's like the chair of the Hall of Fame. And I stopped him to ask him a couple questions. and I don't know if you've ever done this.

Have you ever done this with a player or somebody who you grew up? So when I was in the sixth grade, Julian, sorry, I would have been in the seventh grade. The Montreal Canadiens were my favorite team. Yes. And they played the Calgary Flames in the 1989 Stanley Cup final in which Lanny McDonald pops out of the penalty box.

It's like this old man takes the puck, scores a crucial goal against Patrick Gua, kind of ices the game for Calgary. And so he's in the Hall of Fame thing, hallway. I flag him down, ask him a couple questions about Daniel Alfredson. And then I say to him after a wrap up, I just need you to know, you crush my childhood when you came out of that penalty box. And he laughed and he's like, wow, he's like, if you were a Habs fan, that was just payback

for 1986. He's like, you broke my heart in 1986. So he's like, we're even. But have you ever done that with like somebody that you've started the cover or seen now you're like, you know what? Like, and you've, I always debate, like, do I say, like, do I say like, ooh, I was your fan or you killed me? And I find more often than not, the guys love it.

Absolutely love it. The closest person I could think of as someone who grew up in Montreal and grew up a Habs fan once upon a time, getting to cover Milan Luchich in Calgary is such a weird experience for me. I don't know if people read the Q&A I did with him a couple of weeks ago. But, like, considering the time I was going to, I was about like a time. 10 minute conversation. Like, I knew I wanted to do a Q&A with him.

I knew I had to ask him at some point about being in that Canadians, Bruins, rivalry, because those were some of the best games to watch in, like, the 2010s and even parts of the 2000s as well. And, like, while you had the feeling of with Lanny McDonald's, like, oh, man, you crushed my dreams, I definitely remember being like a younger hockey fan and just being like, I can't stand Milan Luchin. And that one playoff series where Dale Weiss got the best of whom and their jogging at each other. Was there something in the handshake?

Handshake line? Yeah. Yeah, they were going at it in the handshake line. Like I remember thinking like, yeah, like you take that Milan. But like listening to Milan do like media vails with us and getting to talk to him in that one-on-one. Like he comes across as a very, I don't know. Like I kind of like him as a personality, it seems, at least just from talking to him at the very least. Like, I didn't get to say, like, oh, well, I grew up, like, I kind of mentioned at the beginning, like, yeah, you know, it's kind of weird seeing you, like, when I was more of like a fan and seeing you when you came up.

Because, like, he started with the Bruins when he was really young to now where he's, like, he's approaching, like, year 30, year 35 of his life. And he's going to be, you know, all this other stuff with Milan. And, like, he's been in the league for how many years? Like, I had to mention sort of at the beginning, like, yeah, like, I can't believe you're at this point where you've played like 1100 NHL games. but I didn't get to say like, you know, like, man, I grew up hating you, dude. And I don't know if I ever will. I don't know if that, I always debated like whether or not that, like, one, if it's professional, two, if the players even care.

Because, like, I'm sure, like, I don't, like, some guys might, but like, I don't know, especially if you're in the locker room now and you just have to deal with the media people all the time, I would imagine if I brought that up with Milan, it would be like, yeah, whatever, dude, like so many people hate me, I don't care. But, like, I don't know. Maybe if he's, like, in a couple years, if he retires and I run into him, like, dude, like covering you in Calgary was cool. But yeah, I really didn't like you growing up.

I think guys like that. I really do. I think they, they, they, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I bet you, he would, he would appreciate that, you know, it's, but it's, it's crazy. Like, you know, you have these moments, right, where you look at it and you're like, wow, I'm covering Milan Luchich, who I grew up, you know, watching or hating. So how about this for me? Like, you want to talk about the craziness.

So Monday night, I'll be there for Daniel Alpherson's Hall of Fame induction. You know, the first NHL player I ever interviewed, Julian, was Daniel Alpherson. Man. I was a Carlton journalism student. And for a class assignment, I had to write a feature on somebody. And this shows you how old the story was. It was in 1995. And I think I was 18 or 19 years old.

And I sent a fax. That's how old this story was. Oh, my God. From the Carlton School of Journalism, I sent the facts to the Ottawa Senator's PR department requesting an interview with Daniel Alfredson for my class project. And I picked Alfredson because I thought, well, I'm not going to ask for Alexie Yashin or Alex Day because they're these big stars. They'll say no. So let me ask for this kind of unknown. Sorry. Time out, time out, time out, time out.

I get that, you know, his career didn't work out the way a lot of Seds fans would have liked it. I'm sure for him too. It is still kind of funny to think, oh, no, I'm not going to ask for Alex Degg because he's this big star. He was. Sorry. I know. He was big high draft pick and all that. It just kind of unfortunate with how his career went.

But it is kind of funny. So I asked for Daniel Offerton because, like, this guy's a young Swedish player. He's only played like 25, 30 games in the league. And they granted my request. And so I took a bus, took two public, I took public, I took public transfer. took the bus, went out, met this guy named Daniel Alfredson, and I interviewed him for a class project, and now here I am some whatever 26, 27 years later,

and I'll be there for his Hall of Fame induction. It's a really cool moment for me to be able to see this kind of full, but it also makes me feel old. I'm like, wait a minute. The first guy I interviewed is now in the Hall of Fame. That's amazing. I have to think about who's the first NHL player I interviewed. I might need to think about that a little bit more. But I'll say with

Alfredson and the Siddins and Luongo, like, these are guys that I remember, like, watching, like, as a fan. Like, I was actually funny enough, I was talking, I was mentioning the story about the Sadeen twins, uh, to a few friends of mine. And this was April 2010, I want to say. Uh, funny enough, man, funny enough with my birthday. Uh, I got invited to a house party with some high school friends. And it just so happened that, you know, at midnight, it would be my birthday, but also a friend of mine who was there and whose girlfriend was like hosting the party, like, it would be their birthday. So everyone's kind of celebrating him. I'm like, you know what? I'm just, I'm just going to cool out here. I'm just chilling. And, you know, it was late, like, we had watched

the Canadians play that night and they lost. They didn't make the playoffs that year. And then we're all just doing our thing. And there's a random Canucks Flames game that's on. And like, you know, close to midnight, all these teenagers just trying to have a good time and join the party and all that. And this amazing play materializes where Henrik Sedeen like taps this pass to Daniel Sedeen before

he goes to the net and does the little tweener and beats I think Mika Kippersoff was a net for the flames. Everybody in that basement went off. Everyone lost their minds. I remember watching that be like holy crap. This is one of the coolest things I've ever seen.

And we didn't give a damn about the Vancouver Canucks at that time. But for me, like, one of my coolest childhood memories is, like, you know, going to, like, this one high school party with friends and seeing the Sedeen twins come together on this magical play. Like, I think they will always have my appreciation for how they were able to come together as, as, as twins. The fact that they were drafted together, they did pretty much everything together, and they're able to go into the Hall of Fame together. That, I think, is one of the cool things.

I get people going to debate whether or not they're at the top of the Hall of Very Good. I know Daniel Offerton will get some of that as well. But for me, just I really think it was cool seeing the Sedeen twins, knowing what they've gone through and knowing how much they've meant to the Vancouver Connected organization, get to the Hall of Fame together. Same deal for Offerton, too, a guy who did really well with the Senators back in the day. And it was cool seeing them go on that Cup final run as well. And Robert Luongo, of course. I mean, Strombone. Yeah, strong bone.

You know, for me, I think as we reach a crossroads in hockey culture, I do think that there should be some value and weight put on the character of the people going into the Hall of Fame. And this is why I want to tell a real quick anecdote about Alfredson, because I think this stuff matters. And for the people that think that Alfie belongs statistically in the Hall of Very Good, okay, like I'll listen to that argument. I understand it.

I'm not, you know, looking at that argument and just dismissing it. I see it. I understand it. But there's something to be said for the character and the integrity of somebody who was captain for an NHL team for 13 years. That's a long time to be a captain in one market. And the first ever European captain to take his team to the Stanley Cup final that had never been done until Alfredson, and he took them on his back, that he scored 14 goals.

But the thing I'll always remember, Julian, and I think about this, I put a little tweet the thread out about this, but I want to share this with our listeners. But, you know, when I think back to like, I broke in in the 2001-2002 season as a reporter. So 20 years ago, basically, broken as a reporter. I think you could count on one hand the number of, you know, we call it visible minorities or people of color

that were covering the NHL at the time. In the entire league, I think you could count on one hand, the number of people of color who are covering the NHL. And, you know, I never thought about it twice because of the way that Daniel Alfredson and I think Jacques Martin probably deserves some credit to the head coach. But they created a culture there that never made me feel like I was an outsider, never made me feel like, ooh, like that that guy's different. I never one time Julian felt different in that room.

And I've never thought about that until, you know, very, recently I've thought about, you know, I think we've done a lot of reflecting about the way that the game is gone. And I feel really fortunate that I broke in in my early 20s and Daniel Alfredson was the captain of the team that I covered. Because he set the tone. And I don't think he would have stood for, you know, the mistreatment of reporters. And that includes women. There was, we had, you know, Patricia Ball. People might remember her from covering the score, the senators on the television network to score. I think Trish was treated with a ton of respect.

I don't want to speak for her, but I felt like she was. This wasn't a time where women and people of color really covered the NHL very much. And yet we felt like we had an equal seat at that table in that room because Daniel Offertson set the tone. And then, you know, the rest of them, Jason Spetsa and Chris Neal and Phillips and Redden

and, you know, Chara, whoever else you want to put on the list, I think they followed that guy's lead. I think they were like, this is how we treat people around here. We don't treat people differently because of, you know, the way they look. And, you know, I wrote an article last week, Julian, on Alfie.

And I don't know that a lot of people know this about him, but his mom, when he was a teenager, was diagnosed with MS, multiple sclerosis. And Alf, Alfie spent a lot of time talking to me about, you know, the impact that that had on him, that he kind of grew up with, a lot of empathy for other people and understanding that, you know, you need to champion underdogs in your life. And that all was stuck with him, that, you know, people would make fun of

his mom for walking funny before she was diagnosed and put in a wheelchair. People would say to him, you know, why is your mom drunk in the middle of the day? And, you know, his answer was, you know, she's going through some stuff, but people would whisper. And anyway, long story short, I think he grew up The way he explained it to me is when you grow up with a mom who's in a wheelchair, you have a different way of looking at the world. You look at it in a more inclusive way, in a more open way, and you champion causes that maybe other athletes don't do. So that's why I think I'll always have a ton of respect.

And I want the listeners to understand that, like, that that's part of it, that this guy set the tone in Ottawa for more than a decade. And he was the face of this franchise. for a reason. And I hope people can appreciate that. I suspect he's going to give one of those great speeches on Monday night. That's going to be from the heart. And I bet you, Julian, he'll talk about things that,

he told me he's going to have a real hard time talking about his mom. That's going to be a tough one for him because of the fact that she passed away due to COVID in January of 2021. Now, how about this? Okay, I'm going to put a bow on this. So Daniel Offerton in Ottawa, Julian for years. The fans in Ottawa, when the clock in the first period would get to 11-11, because he wore number 11.

Okay. When the clock would get to 11-11, the crowd in Ottawa would start to countdown. From 11-11 down to 11 minutes for 11 seconds, 11, 10, 9, 8, right down to 11 minutes, they would start an Alfie chant. Alfie, Alfie, Alfie, Al-Fee, Al-Fee, that's the last three or four years in Ottawa for him. Okay? So the reason why I'm telling you this is when Daniel Alfredson's mom passed away in January of 2021. Daniel couldn't go to Sweden because of the COVID restrictions.

Daniel had to be on FaceTime as his mom passed away. She had COVID. They decided to basically unplug the machine and she took her last breath. She passed away. the time of death, Julian, for his mom, was 11-11-11 in Ottawa. The time of death for his mom was 11-11 in Ottawa. And I asked him about this because I thought,

I had heard this story, I didn't want to say, I'd ask him about this. And he's like, well, it makes you wonder, I think it's a coincidence. I talked to his brother, Henrik. Henrik's like, nope, it's not a coincidence. That's my mom sending a message. And it's, he's like, I'm not a question.

his brother said, I'm not a religious guy, but I believe in that. I'm blown away. To me, that's one of the most remarkable things that I've ever heard, that his mom would have passed away at 11-11 Ottawa time. No? I'm speechless. Yeah. I'm just speechless.

Just that the way that you've described Daniel over these last few minutes, from just the type of human being that he is to what his, he had to endure with his mom. suffering from MS until the very end with COVID. Like that, wow. Obviously, you got to cover him for a long time, and I only got to really watch him on Hockey Night in Canada and on TV, so I do not know the type of person that he is. I think for anyone listening who had no idea about the person that he is

or anything that he might have gone through, first off, you should read Ian's latest on Daniel. but also just wow, like that. I'm sorry, I wish I had bored to say. I'm just floored and absolutely amazed. What a guy. What a great characterization of a person. Yeah, he's got, you know what, Julian,

best way to summarize it. And I think people in Vancouver would say the same about the Sadiens. They just have a moral compass. And it always, that needle always seems to be pointing in the right direction. And at a time in which I think our. sport is really out of crossroads. We need to lean on the Siddens and the Alfreds and the, you know, the people like that that are just the needles always pointed in the right direction.

So I'm really happy for him. But like I said, it's going to make me feel old, man. Guy that I interviewed as a Carlton student is going into the Hall of Fame. So I'm looking. So this will happen to you at some point when like, I'm trying to think who would be the guy for you. I mean, Luchitz won't be the Hall of Famer, you know. But at some point,

Cole Coffield is going to go to the Hall of Fame at some point. You're going to be like, I saw that guy with the LaValle rocket. That might be like, yeah, that might be close enough. I might be, I mean, yeah, him or or Nick Suzuki or I guess here if any of the Flames prospects that they have coming up end up turning into, into Hall of Famers or anything like that, right? Like it's, or if John the New York. Heuberto turns himself into a Hall of Fame player over the next few years of his contract.

Or, I don't know. Just, yeah, there's a potential for a lot. But, yeah, I'm nowhere, I'm nowhere near that. Like, it's still, I still, it's still pretty cool to be in a locker room and interview players. I mean, like, oh, yeah. Like, I watched you, like, years ago, like, just on a TV. But, like, now I'm in a locker room with you, like, asking you dumb questions. I don't know.

It's, it's very surreal. But for a guy like Daniel Offerton, to get to the point where he's in the Hall of Fame, that is really cool to see the Sadeen twins as well. We got to show some left Roberto Luongo too, a guy who were the best goalies of his time. The 2010 Olympics for me, that I think is the best of Roberta Luongo. That for me in terms of the best of him, that for me is it. That tournament is it? Like this, he didn't start that tournament as a starter, but he ended up being the starter. And he came up huge in some big games for Team Canada.

I think there's the semi-final. There was the one game against Slovakia near the end, the big save on Pad. I think that was a quarterfinals. He was money, semi-final. And then obviously to get to the gold medal game and, you know, you win in overtime, it's, um, okay, here's a question for you. And I mean, I saw Roberto, I saw Roberto at the Hall of Fame, uh, you know,

events on the weekend. I didn't talk to him because, again, I'm here to talk to Alpherson. If you think, if you think, if you injected. Roberto Luongo with truth serum and asked him which would you rather have the gold medal from 2010 or the next year

you win the Stanley Cup with Vancouver you could only have one of those two things what do you think he would want? One I don't know if you do you have to inject him with truth serum? I feel like he would be honest enough to say that to say the answer he comes across as one of those people who would

like what would it be for you? Would you like would you rather win a Stanley Cup like a Canadian market that's been starved for a championship or win a gold medal for Canada, but now you do it on home ice, right? So, I think I might take the Stanley Cup. I hate to say that. I think I might take the cup.

This is a very difficult situation because, like I get it, like Canada win the gold medal in men's hockey. Like that, that's happened, you know, but there's something about that 2010 Olympics, which if you look at it in its totality. considering how dominant Canada was in every other sport at those Olympics, at the most gold medals of anyone at that 2010. And on the very last day, them hosting the Olympics, they win in men's hockey,

not just in some blowout win over the United States, their arch rival, an overtime winning goal, a goal that will be played for years on end. Like people of a certain age will look at Paul Henderson in 1972. My generation will look back at Sidney Crosby's goal. golden goal. And they still do. Like, I mean, you got a gold medal out of that? Like, that means, and then Roberto Longa wasn't just the backup. He emerged as a starter. That means something.

I mean, maybe it's because I don't come from the Vancouver market. Maybe my, maybe that's why I, I, I don't know, I see a silver lining for, for Roberto and him not winning a Stanley Cup, but still having a gold medal to his name and a really good gold medal at that. That's not just some little gold medal where you were a third string goalie and you didn't really have to do anything to get it. Like, Roberto Luongo stood on his head and he was the man and he helped Team Canada earn that gold battle. Like, that means something.

That at least should soothe the pain. But man, that 2011 Stanley Cup, I really wanted Vancouver to win. I mean, growing up as a Canadian fan, I did not want Boston to win, hence the Milan Luchich discussion. But like, man, just, you know, that's a really. tough question. It really just, because you know what's funny, like, I really feel, you know, if you end your career with like a gold medal at the Olympics, and that goes for almost any other sport, like I think of Charles Barkley in like the NBA, he does not have a championship and Shaq

likes to poke fun out of him, but he won a gold medal with the USA Dream Team. Like, that should still mean something. Like winning at the Olympics, we see that, and I get it. Some people look into, you know, there's amateurs and pros doing all that, like, you know, participating in all that we still see the Olympics as like the peak of international competition and representing your country and putting it on for your country to show that you're the best at something. And that matters. Fine, you know, we look at the Stanley Cup differently. It's the holy grill.

Probably the best trophy to win in sports. But damn it, winning for your country and being a reason why you win for your country should be seen with. I mean, it's seen with a lot of reference and respect, but like, I don't know. I feel if I'm Roberto Luongo, fine. You want to get at me at the fact I didn't win that Stanley Cup in 2011? That's you're right. But I have a 2010 Olympic gold medal that will also stand the test of time and not just as some random Olympics as one of the most enduring, long-lasting, iconic Olympic moments of all time, almost iconic Olympic moments, just sporting moments in Canada. period. So I think even if you don't have that Stanley Cup ring, I mean, look, you're going to have a Hall of Fame ring and you have that gold medal. I think that still should mean the world to Roberto Luongo. Maybe I'm copying out of that question, but I don't know. I feel like if you're not going to win the Stanley Cup, this is still pretty good. Oh yeah. Now you said, look, Roberto wasn't a third string goalie. He won the cup.

Oh, sorry, won the gold medal. Won the gold medal. Now I'm starting to think. So like, I know that in Sochi in 2014, Kerry, Price was obviously the dominant goalie. Mike Smith was like the third goalie on Team Canada in 2014. Okay? Here's my question for you. If you win a gold medal but you're the third string goalie, like where do you put that in your house? Like where, like are you,

is the gold medal, I personally would be putting it like right in front of my, like right on the mantle. I'd be in glass case. Everybody that comes in, I'm like, hey, I was part of the gold medal winning team. That's just me.

I'm telling everybody. Yeah, I would. Hell yeah. If I was like the, if I was a healthy scratch every night, but I still got a gold medal out of it. Look, it's not like I sat on my ass the whole time. I helped them boys practice. Yes. Like, look, P.K. Suban probably has that gold medal somewhere. You play like one game, the entirety of that Olympics. Like, it's a gold medal. It's a gold medal. It's a gold medal. You know, like celebrate it. It's just. like for Stanley Cup ring. If you were a black ace, do black aces get cup rings? No. There's a criteria where either you have to play, I think it's 40 regular season games as a player or one game in the final.

That used to be the rule. Like in order to get your cup ring, it was one game in the final or there was like a set number of regular season games you had to play. And then I then I also think it could go to a vote. Like at the end of the year, like the team could vote.

Like, let's say a guy played 39 games, it was a big part of your team, but something happened. Like, you can, that the players, I think, could vote on should they get a ring and a share of the, like,

you know, so there's that element to it. But there is a bit of a criteria there. Okay, fair. I don't know. If I think you, I think if you get it, I think if you want to explain to people the caveat of you're not playing as much,

fine. But if you have the pedal and you have the, the ring, you have no reason not to flon it as far as I'm concerned. You will all, Mike Smith will always have gold medalist to his name. I'll be quite honest with you. I completely forgot he was on that Sochi team. Kerry Price was that dominant.

I think he might have even been the third goalie, Mike Smith. I don't even know who the second goal he was, but we never even saw that guy. Mark, my guess without looking. I don't think it would have been flurry. No, because remember, that was in the window where, remember, Flurry kind of like melted down in the 2012 playoffs against Philly and then in 2013 I want to say Thomas Vokun like usurped him

I like using that word he got usurped as the number one goalie. So you're right. I don't think Flurry would have been the guy. It wasn't it's it's hockey hall of favor Roberto Luongoa. Roberto has two gold medals? He was on that team. Geez, he was on that team man. Yeah. So get on Rapera Lua. In fact, I should really look back at that 2014

because probably wouldn't surprise me if it ended up being the same thing where Rupert Luongo started and then Cary Price took over. But we just remember Carrie Price being dominant. And that was within that window where, you know, he had the gold medal and then eventually went on to have the Hart Trophy Vezina

winning season. Or I think it might have been the same year, or at least around the same time. Like it's like, Carrie Price's peak as an HL gold tender. is in that window. Amazing. Yeah. I did not know

Roberto Luongo was on the 2014 Sochi team. See? So there. The more you know. These are things you forget. The more you know. All right, Julian, looking forward to having our next guest

join us here. Teresa Bailey, the co-author of a book that's just out in the last couple of weeks. Hockey moms, the heart of the game. Co-authored, well, my good buddy, Terry Marcotte, long-time reporter

in Ottawa is a co-op. author on this project with Teresa. And, you know, they've spent, they spent a couple of years, if I'm not mistaken, kind of just gathering stories from, from hockey moms, some of which Julian are, you know, you would know their kids like, oh yeah, Connor McDavid and Austin Matthews and the Kachucks, right? But then there's a bunch of stories from kids who never made it to the NHL and their mom's journey. And I think, you know, I'm looking forward to this interview, Julian, because I think you and I, look,

I go back to our show last week. And it was one of my, the best shows I think you and I have done. I mean, we have only done whatever 10 shows, eight shows together on this edition of the podcast. But we were speaking about Mitchell Miller and we were really fired up and rightfully so and it's been a really difficult news cycle as hockey fans. And sometimes we need the dash of positivity, right? Like sometimes we need to remember that, okay, let's keep shining a light on the negativity

because we have to do that and we need to be better at it. But let's also remember there are some really cool stories. Sometimes I feel like we need to restore our faith in humanity, right, in hockey? Yeah, I see where you're coming from with that. And I think having someone like Teresa Bailey who's with us now to talk about her latest book is probably a good example of that. Yeah. So let's bring her in here. Teresa, we're happy to have you on here.

And first of all, welcome to the Monday edition of The Athletic Hockey Show. How are you? I'm great. Thanks for having me. It's a great way to start a Monday. Yeah. Well, listen, let's talk about like the idea for hockey moms because I know that this is probably book projects. The one thing I've learned, they take years to put together, not weeks or months. It's usually a kind of a long process. So walk us through where the idea came from and how long it kind of took you to kind of put this all together. Sure. It's an idea that was actually percolating, I guess, since 2010 when I started the community of Canadian hockey mums way back when, and that came out of really some trying to understand the weird things that go on in minor hockey and making a positive out of that. I actually started that anonymously because I didn't really feel that I had a place to speak out about it. So it's been brewing since then. I tried to get started a couple times around 2015 to 2016. I did several of the interviews and then just got busy.

I have three kids in hockey myself and run a business and all those things. So it wasn't until the pandemic hit. I reached out to Terry Marcotte and he had done some interviews on me around 2014, around Canadian hockey moms, actually with Hockey Canada at the time as well. And it wasn't until he offered to help and I thought I would be ridiculous to not utilize Terry's writing skills and everything he knows. He's been so great. So once we got together, it really took off. So it's about two years of real writing and interviews. Wow. My next question I want to ask is just with regards to getting some of the more

higher profile names that we mentioned before and reaching out to their mothers, what was that process like? And how was it getting the opportunity to speak to some of those mothers about their kids? Well, actually, the high profile mothers, I had a lot of help reaching out to them. And I have to thank again, Nathan Parrott was actually the person who got me in touch with the first two, Terry Kinek and Kristen Crouse. And Nathan used to play for several NHL teams and played in the HL. And he played the beliefs. And his oldest son was training with a couple of the boys.

So that was my start. And then I just started contacting people I knew to try to reach out to other people. Kelly McDavid, actually, she was doing a campaign at the time with Cabrise. And they, their publicists reached out to do a campaign with me through my website and the Facebook community. And I knew I had to play my cards right. And I think that she is such a gracious person. And we did an interview around that campaign. And then I asked if I could speak with her after.

And she trusted me enough. to that, I guess, to say yes. So I actually did that interview, I think, in 2018. So when you're interviewing Connor McDavid's mom, when you go into an interview like that, I guess, like, I'm assuming that the McDavid family would be very guarded about, you know, like their son is a generational superstar, right? And as such, you probably are a little bit leery about people knowing too much about, you know, the inner workings of your family and things like that.

So, yeah, like, you know, what was that process like interviewing? Connor's mom? Well, I think I, first of all, I think that being a hockey fan helped. So I was able to talk about, I actually had my kids at the first, we bought the tickets, the Sends tickets. Actually, I think we had my parents' seats as tickets at the time for that game when he came back from his collarbone injury. So that was the first time I got to see play.

And I used to be a figure skater, so I especially appreciate excellent skaters, and he kind of blew my mind. So when I was able to talk to her about what fans we were and how amazing it was, and I meant that, being genuine about what a thrill it is to see someone like that on ice, and I meant that. And also just reassuring that this is not out to get anyone. We're not trying to expose anyone. We're really just trying to make some space for women. And so I think she understood that, and I think that probably helped. Is there a story among all the ones you've compiled that touches or has touched you the most? Oh, my goodness.

I will have to say that I think that it was really important that we did this over the pandemic. So we were all isolated at the time. And so for me, I'm actually alone a week at a time when my kids aren't here. And these women were really a connection for me. through that time. When I look back on it now, I wouldn't really have said that then. But there were so many stories that moved me and them too. And we didn't have any hockey, so it was great to talk about it. But one in particular, Motorcycle Marge, we talked to her and two of her daughters, one of her daughter alone, Brenda, and then we talked to Marge and Teresa together.

She's a woman from southern Manitoba, and she lived on a farm with her six kids. Her husband left her with six kids when the youngest was one year old, and she ended up playing with all five of her daughters. And they were the first female broadcast game in North America. I mean, I believe on radio, I think it's documented. So to hear her, and she was older and with her daughters talking, but what that was and how hard it was growing up. And what it felt like to, she started at forward.

She said I was pretty fast. And then I got slower and I played defense. And then I ended up playing a net. That was a pretty powerful story. And she actually passed away while we were writing the book. So when I think back about those things, that was, that was a special one for me. And, you know, just before we, we wrap up with you, I know that, you know, Bobby Ryan had a very special bond with his mom who passed away a few years ago.

And Bobby wrote the forward. for your book. And I'm wondering what that does to kind of set the tone for the chapters that follow. Getting somebody like Bobby Ryan to talk about his mom in the opening of your book. Oh my gosh. He was he was so fantastic when we talked to him. And I think the feedback that I have from all the moms is, well, I read the forward and I started crying. So if the rest of the books like that, I'm not really sure what I'm in for. He was just really special to share that story with him. And what I said to him is that we all hope that our children talk about us the way that he talks about his mother. Yeah.

Well, that's well said. And look, we really appreciate you dropping by because, you know, for us, this is a great, you know, we wanted to learn hockey fans to a great book with some great stories. And like you said, Bobby Ryan's forward probably sets the tone for some emotional stories to follow. but, you know, there's some great stories in there. I know Shantel, the Kachukh family is one of the best families going there. So, you know, for you to be able to get them, I'm looking forward to getting around to reading it. We want to, you know, remind our listeners, hey, the book is Hockey Moms.

And, you know, in Canada, it's chapters Indigo or Amazon, you can get it there. Same thing with, I'm sure, with the American listeners, you can just order it off of Amazon. So, Teresa, we really appreciate you. Take it a few minutes to chat about the book project. and we wish you the best of luck with the sales here moving into Christmas. Thanks so much for having you. All right. Let's wrap up the show, Julian, like we always do on Mondays.

We got a little, let's do a little multiple choice here. Okay, a little multiple choice madness on a Monday. I'm looking at this day. I wake up on Monday. And there's four, I'm going to list off four teams, Julian, that are currently in the top ten of the standings in the NHL. that I think if you go back to like a month ago from now, you'd be like, I don't think these four teams,

I don't think a lot of people would put these four teams in their top ten. Okay? So I'm going to ask you this, multiple choice Madness Monday. Which team that's currently in the top ten of the NFL standings, Julian, has the best chance of staying there in the next few months? And by the end of the year, by game 82, they'll still be in the top ten.

Is it, A, the New Jersey Devils, be the Los Angeles Kings, see the Winnipeg Jets or D, the New York Islanders. I'm, I don't know about you. I'm surprised that all four of them are in the top 10. Like if you go back to where we were a month ago. My pick is the Winnipeg Jets because I don't, I've, I just, I've seen something in this core.

I've seen something of this core for soul, for a couple of years. And it seems like, at least with the way that they've started, they're starting to realize that, potential. And also the fact that this is a team that in the office, that just before the season started, decide to take off the sea off of Blake Wheeler. And Blake Wheeler seems to be doing okay with the fact that he's living without the sea in Winnipeg. I mean, as we're recording, I believe they're still atop the central division. They're off to a good start. Rick

bonus is taken over and he's getting them to play at their, getting it to play well. Connor Halibuck is having a good start to his year with a goalie with the goals against average just a little over two. And the safe percentage of the 930s. He's off to a really good start. It's on them to maintain it. But I think the Winnipeg Jets might be that team. I remember talking to Nate Schmidt over the weekend just about the captain thing. And it seems as if like, you know, that kind of did take a little bit of pressure off of Blake Wheeler.

And he noted about how well everyone else seems to be responding to that, right? And maybe that's a whole other discussion about captains and all that. But it seems like just with the changing coach, a change in leadership style where it's not necessarily pressured onto one person, it seems like it's working for this Winnipeg Jets team. A team with, again, with players who have gone through playoff runs before. And if Connor Hellebuck stands on top of his head, like, look, no disrespect to the Islanders and the Kings and the Devils. with Connor Hellebeck, I'm taking him over all of their goalies, and that includes Elias O'Rourke, who's doing pretty decent in New York right now. I'm going to pick the Winnipeg Jets.

Oh, man, you know what? I'm torn. Give me New Jersey. Julian, I think I'm a believer in them. Like, they're just rolling teams right now. And they're doing it with bad goal-tening. So I'm thinking, like, at some point, they're going to get better goal-tening, and they're playing like this, like, this is really impressive.

They are a really impressive team. What I like about the Devils, I feel like in the last 18 months, they've really addressed their blue line. You know, Dougie Hamilton and then Ryan Graves and then John Marino. And it's like, all of a sudden, you're like, wow,

that's a pretty good back end. You add Damon Severson to the mix. And then, you know, Nico Heeshire, I think Jasper Brad has been dynamite this year. Hughes, when he's healthy, feels like he's a point of game guy. And all of a sudden, you're like,

oh, man. Like, the New Jersey, Devils, like this feels sustainable to me. This doesn't, it doesn't feel like smoke and mirrors to me. So I'm going to take the Devils. I think by the end of the year, I think that Devils might be a team that could potentially fight for first place in their division and certainly being kind of firmly inside the top 10 in my estimation, you know?

Got to say, man. Yeah, no. But yeah, the Devils deserve some love, man. Again, they're not just the players that they have, but just how quick they are. It's cool to see a team with that young talent, even if their goal-tending could be a little bit better, go off to the start that they're on. That too is another team that started off a bit rocky to start off the year with some, with some, with some, um, uh, tumultuous things going on, or at least with the way that they were playing. Well, they were Owen, too. In fact, that takes us

right to our Jack Adams of the week award that we do on the Monday edition of the podcast, because when the devils were Owen two, they lost their first two games on the road, and they went to their home opener. They were like, and now here's your coach, Lindy Ruff. And there was, was like boo, right? And guess what? The Devils are just rolled off, whatever it is, nine wins in a row. So as we talk about Jack Adams'

candidates of the week, who did the best job of coaching in the last seven days, I'm going to give you a couple of candidates here. Obviously, Lindy Rough in New Jersey, they continue to roll. Todd McClellan, L.A. is won four in a row. And, you know, I'm not sure everyone knew exactly what the Kings were, but they're sitting there

with a pretty good record. Jim Montgomery and Boston, again. is on this list. And I think my vote this week, though, Julian goes from Marty St. Louis in Montreal. The Canadians are overachieving, man. With a capital O, they beat the Penguins in overtime on Saturday.

They're on a three-game winning streak at a time in which I think a lot of people thought they'd be hanging with Arizona and whoever else you want to put in the bottom of the standings. They're holding on to a wild card spot. It seems to me like they love playing for Marty St. Louis. And I got to tell you right now, like, he's got to be in the mix for the most surprising coaching job so far. Three wins in a row, give him, he gets my vote for the week.

So, yeah, I'll add this too. Like, yeah, like ever since he was hired in Montreal, like the players back then, at least last year, I think they liked playing for him because at that point the season was lost and he was just going to let those guys play a little bit more, even not more free, but definitely more offensive-minded. And a guy like Cole Field is obviously benefiting. And for this year, where the expectations are once again low, and you're just letting those young players play, and remember, they've been battling some injuries too, right? Like, this is pretty interesting that they've been able to reel off the wins that

they've been able to get. But yeah, Martin San Luis, the fact that he's been able to get the team in the position that they're in, really surprising. Good time to be a head coach in any sport that has no prior NHL coaching experience at this point between him and Jeff Saturday. But I will give my vote to Lindy Ruff this week. You mentioned the fact that he got booed to start off the year. You missed something very important in that. Those same New Jersey fans chanted sorry Lindy.

They apologized in light of them being so bad and now turning into a really good team. There was a video going around from Ryan Novazinsky, local beatwriter in New Jersey, and he caught video of fans chanting Sorry Lindy as they were playing a game over the last few days. Like, it's one thing to just boo your head coach. It would be like, ah, you suck. It's a whole other thing for them to be like,

hey, sorry, we dumped on you. That enough is worthy of the Jack Adams' weekly award for me, for Lindy Ruff. Man, you know what? Maybe, okay, you know what? You just, might be a tie. You changed my vote. You changed my vote.

Oh, straight up. Because of the sorry Lindy chant. You never see a fan base apologize and be like, whoa, my bad. You never see that. Never. Go ahead. Mark him down.

Lindy rough. Man. Can you imagine like, like Toronto? If like Shelton Keith. Sorry, dubus. I can't see it. Sorry, Chief. Keith.

Like, that's never going to happen. it. No. You know what? You did it. You did it. You convinced me. I was going Marty,

St. Louis, all the way. You tipped the scales to to Lindy Ruff. All right, tell you what, why don't we leave it there? This has been a really fun Monday edition of the pod. We want to thank everybody for listening.

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