The Athletic Hockey Show - Hockey Hall of Fame Class of 2023 announced, Jets could be on the verge of a massive roster changeover

Episode Date: June 22, 2023

Ian Mendes and Sean McIndoe react to the 2023 class of the Hockey Hall of Fame announcement on Wednesday, including flowers for Henrik Lundqvist and Caroline Ouellette, also the snub of Alexander Mogilny and the decision to only induct one woman this year, and start some early debate for the class of 2024. Next, with Connor Hellebuyck, Mark Scheifele, Pierre-Luc Dubois, and Blake Wheeler all potentially leaving the Jets, it could be the biggest roster turnover in recent history, and what the offseason future could hold for Timo Meier, Alex DeBrincat and Erik Karlsson. To wrap up, a listener shares a hat trick hat throw story in the mailbag, and a look back with "This Week in Hockey History".Have a question for the show? Email [e-mail], or leave a VM @ [phone]!Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowThis episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/ NHLSHOW and get on your way to being your best selfSign up for a Chime Checking Account today to link your paycheck. It only takes two minutes and doesn’t affect your credit score. Get started at chime.com/nhlshowHead to factormeals.com/nhlshow and use code NHLSHOW50 to get 50% off your first boxFor 15% off MudWtr go to mudwtr.com/hockeyshow and use code HOCKEYSHOW to support the show and get a discount!Stay cool and dry all summer with Birddogs and get a FREE Yeti-style tumbler at birddogs.com/athletic use promo code ATHLETIC at checkout Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Welcome back. It is your Thursday crew with the Athletic Hockey Show. It's Ian Mendez, Sean McEntee, with you. Coming up, we're teeing up the NHL draft. It's less than a week away. Trade wins are swirling. We got a lot to get to on that front, whether it's Tim O'Me Meyer, Alex DeBringit, the Jets, so many things going on.

But I think, Sean, we got to start with. what happened on Wednesday afternoon, which was the class of 2023 in the Hockey Hall of Fame. And the inductees come out. And one thing I want to be real careful about, I find that sometimes we tear down the people that got inducted. And I don't want to do that here. I think all the people that got inducted, there's a great case for them to all get in. But if I had to ask you right now, about 24 hours after the induction, Class of 20, 23 came out.

What's your, like, what's your biggest issue right now as you look at what happened and how it played out on Wednesday? I mean, I got a few issues. But can we do this? Can I make a request? Before we get into that, can we just spend a couple of minutes talking about Henrik Lundquist and Carolina? Because I feel like they're the two slam dunk.

no doubt about it, Hall of Famers, who had just phenomenal careers. And yet it just feels to me like the last 24 hours, we've been all talking about Mike Vernon, we've been talking about Alexander McGilney, we've been talking about the lack of the other women. And we're not talking about these two phenomenal players.

Can we, let's, before we get angry, can we just talk about how much these two kicked ass? Yes. And can we all, yeah. Lungwist, it's funny because as soon as Lungwis got in, you saw a bunch of people say, what about Cujo?

What about, and it was finally, did it not feel like finally it was the year of the goalie? Like, you've written about this, we've talked about this, lack of goaltender, so nice to see Hank Lungwis on his first crack. I also feel like we don't talk enough about the fact this guy had a twin brother.

Yes. You know? Another, like is this a, a rough day for that guy. This is a Jose Cansego, Ozzie, Saco.

Yeah. Situation. And he did play. He played for, uh, just like Ozzy and Zika. Goet. Right? Like he was, uh, and he was a forward, which is interesting. Yeah.

That it just, you almost other than with apologies to the Dryden, like you never get a two goalie family. It's just somebody's got to be the goalie. Somebody. And it's usually the younger. So I don't know how that works when you're, when you're twins. But, uh, yeah, it's, uh, boy, I just, I just, it's nice to see Henrik Longquist catch a break in life.

Finally, something good happens to the millionaire pro athletes slash rock star guitar player slash male model slash TV star. Finally, finally the dice roll his way and things work out. I mean, that was great. And then, I mean, you get into the women's side of it where we've got one superstar can. Hey, who goes in. I mean, geez, you talk about, I know in the goalie discussions, right, people are talking, you know, with a Curtis Joseph and Mike Barrow. Well, who's a winner? Who's a winner?

Hey, you want a winner? We just put one in the Hall of Fame because Carolyn what? Like, never. She just, send her to a best on best. Send her to a big tournament, the Olympics, whatever. She wins. Just an absolute, I don't know, what, trophy case? Full, wall full,

clout, like at some point you run out of space and you're just like, do you have like your least favorite gold medals that are just kind of stuffed away somewhere? I don't know. But so, congratulations to them.

The, I guess you ask me like what, what is really tight? The fact that they continue to only induct one woman. Yeah. When there are other worthy candidates is, it just feels,

at this point, it feels like there's a stubbornness involved here. Because look, I get that there are going to be some people who say, well, you know, should there be as many women as men, is the, you know, look at the scope of the games and how many people are playing and this and that. And it's like, we don't have to debate that. That question has been answered by the Hockey Hall of Fame itself. They have said, give us up to four men if there are four worthy candidates and give us up to two women. That's it. That's what they want. They want four men and two women. Now, you can argue over

whether those are the right numbers or not, but that is what the Hall of Fame has asked for. And the committee has basically said, no, we're overruling the Hall of Fame and we're going to decide two women is too many. Because they've only one time used both those slots, and that was the very first time in 2010. Since then, it has been one or zero every single year. and look, I don't care how many women you think are worthy. There's worthy candidates that aren't in. So the committee is not doing its job by continually low-balling on that side of it. You know, we're not in any danger of running out of candidates down the line.

So I don't know. And there's been a ton of criticism about this. And again, it just feels like we're into the stubbornness territory. Between this and McGilney as well, it will get into it a bit. It is giving me the same vibe as the Pat Burns situation a few years ago. Yeah. Where, you know, you remember that he was, he was certainly worthy. Everybody kept waiting for him to go in.

He was sick. We knew he didn't have a lot of time left. There was a sense of urgency of, you know, get this guy in so that he can know, he can get that call before he leaves us. And they didn't do it. He passed away. people were very upset and then they a couple more years

they just didn't put them in and it was almost like yeah we're gonna teach you a lesson we're the committee we are the we're the ones who decide and if the public's gonna scream and yell about something

then we're just gonna we'll give you a little time out and then eventually they put Pat Burns in as we all knew they would it just feels like the same sort of thing and I know in a way

that's unfair because I'm I'm putting I'm putting motivation onto people where it may not exist. But given that we have a system where they don't tell us anything at all about what gets discussed, who came close, who didn't, nobody says a word. Hey, sorry guys, if this is unfair, feel free to correct the record. But if you're never going to say anything about this and you're going to treat it as this big secret club where nothing can ever leak out, about about anything, then this is what fans are going to do.

They're going to try to connect the dots on their own. And right now you connect the dots on some of these decisions, and they don't, it doesn't make a pretty picture. Yeah. And I think part of the problem, Haley Salvean's written about this, but I think part of the problem on the women's side is just, I don't think there's enough people on that 18-person panel who have a true understanding of the women's game.

Right? There's clearly not because if you did, there would have been somebody joining Carolyn Ulet, whether it was Jen Botterill, somebody else. Somebody would have joined. But the thing is, like, we're not asking them to dig into like obscure history here or, you know, I mean, to say that Jen Botterill is a Hall of Famer or Megan Duggan or Julia Chu or somebody like that and just, you don't need to, look, I'll be very honest. I'm not a diehard fan of the women's game.

I don't, you know, other than world championships or Olympics, I don't spend a ton of time on it. I'm certainly not going to sit here and act like I'm an expert on it. I know that there are some worthy Hall of Fame candidate. Like, you don't need an expert level of view. And honestly, if there's anybody on that committee saying, I can't vote for these women because I'm just not knowledgeable enough about it, get off the committee then.

Because as the committee, you have three jobs. Builders, male players, female players. If you can't do one of those jobs because you lack the knowledge, get off the committee, resign, and let somebody come in who has the knowledge. But I don't think you have to be a scholar of the women's game in order to look at the resumes of some of these players and say, yeah, this is a slam dunk. What are we doing here? So let's get into some.

We actually have some emails from listeners all about the Hall of Fame. So it's a perfect launching point for us to discuss some of the things swirling around. Wednesday's induction announcement. So let's start with this one, William and San Jose. Hey, guys, I don't understand why Mike Vernon was inducted into the Hall of Fame. I was born in 1990, started following the NHL in 9596. So I was surprised when Tom Barrasso and Mike Vernon were inducted to the hall, I only remember the end of their careers.

So I looked at hockey reference. Turns out Tom Barrasso was an amazing goalie for the Sabres and what constituted a really good goalie in the 80s and early 90s. However, Mike Vernon's numbers are just bad. His career goals saved above expected is negative. If playoff numbers are fine, but not exceptional. What is so good about Mike Vernon that I don't understand? Are we just going to be inducting every goalie with two Stanley Cup rings?

Is Corey Crawford a Hall of Famer now, Matt Murray, etc? That's from William in San Jose. Yeah, that's a pretty good summary of the argument against the two goals. that they chose to put in. Let's start with Todd Barrasso. I've always felt like Barrasso had a better case than people thought. That he wasn't, you know, again, we have no idea who gets discussed by the committee. We don't know who gets nominated.

We don't know if guys are one vote short or 10 votes short or if they weren't even on the ballot in a given year. We have no way of knowing. But when you talk, when you look at the conversation that happens, the fans and the media, around this time of year, we get into it and we write our lists and all of that. And I always felt like Barassau wasn't, didn't seem really top of mind.

And I wasn't, you know, I was kind of 50-50 on whether he'd have my vote. But this is a guy who, boy, you talk about some of the things that happened in the 80s that will never happen again. Wayne Gretzky scored 92 goals and stuff like that. A guy

winning the Vezina Trophy as a teenager right out of high school. In an era now where goalies, we don't even see, your team drafts a goalie and you don't even see him for seven years. Tom Barrasso gets drafted out of high school right into the lineup, wins the Vezina Trophy year one. Just absolutely phenomenal. I think the, you know, I think he's a worthy pick, especially now that we're opening

the doors up for goalies a bit more. Mike Vernon, boy, it's, I'll tell you this. As a fan of that era, Mike Vernon was considered a star goalie back then. He was considered one of the top guys. Obviously, we didn't look at the numbers the same way back then. You know, we goal saved above. It was all about wins back then.

It wasn't even a thing. You know, we looked at wins. We looked at goals against even more than save percentage. And, you know, the fact that Mike Vernon won two Stanley Cups, won a cons might really could have won two. Could have won the one in 89. Like this is not a, at the risk of poking the hornet's nest. Mike Vernon was not a Chris Osgood type guy, you know, being good enough on a team.

He wasn't an Aden Hill type of guy, being good enough on a great team. He was a huge part of those teams winning. And it's interesting. I know, like, Eric DeHattrick has been banging the drum for Mike Vernon for years and years. And Eric covered those flames teams. So, I mean, he would know. I know that there's a lot of people in the hockey world who, you know, I've seen some of the pitches that were made on behalf of Mike Vernon, some of the big names that were behind him, including some Hall of Fame names, reaching out to the committee saying, please consider Mike Vernon, please, you know, please have that discussion because maybe he should be in there. And part of it was just, you know, hey, if you needed a guy to go head-to-head with those Euler teams,

Mike Vernon was your guy, you know, that his record head-to-head with Grant Fierer was quite good. And, you know, certainly compared to other goalies that, you know, that he was that kind of big game guy. Now, you look at the numbers, and the numbers make the case a pretty tough one. I mean, save percentage, he was what? He was average, if not below league average. We're not saying bad numbers because while he played in the 80s and they're not, his numbers aren't as good as Andrew Lunkwis. We're saying like even compared to his peers, his numbers weren't great.

I guess the argument for him would be, you know, he had the longevity. He did win the two cups. And when he was at his best, he really was one of the best. And there was as much as it's kind of a cliche and kind of a weird way to think of it, There absolutely was a time where if you had one game to win, one game seven, and you needed to pick a goalie, yeah, Mike Vernon might have been your guy or the very least he would have been on your list. That's as close as I can come. Look, we do the annual exercise at the athletic where we kind of make our own committee and, you know, Eric has pitched Mike Vernon every year. I have never voted for Mike Vernon for the Hall of Fame.

but I can kind of see it. You know, I don't think it's, I don't think it's as far off as some people seem to feel it is, but he would not have had my vote. But our listener asked somebody to make the case for Mike Vernon as a Hall of Fame. I guess that lukewarm case I just made

is the best I can do. Yeah. Now let's get to Alex McGilney because in our shadow vote that we did last week for the athletic and Duhach wrote the story a couple days ago, we selected Alex McGilney, and I think it was pretty darn near unanimous, wasn't it? I think it was unanimous.

And it's the third year in a row that we've done it, the third year in a row that McGillney's been picked. And in the real vote, McGillney doesn't make it. Now, you and I are confused by this. I see people throwing out a whole bunch of potential reasons. But again, in the absence of tangible facts, we're left to speculate.

We're left to speculate, is he not in because of politics with Russia? Is he not in because he won't show up? Like if they induct him, he's not going to show up to the ceremony. Like, I don't know. But again, a little transparency on McGilney would go a long way. Like if we're off and we're like, hey, how come McGilley's not in? And there's some nefarious reason why he's being kept out, then let us know. And we'll happily stop banging the drum.

But until then, it feels a little weird, no? Yeah. So, yes, absolutely it does. And again, we have no visibility on this. Alexander McGilney, I would say for the last few years, has been, my perception would be he has been kind of the consensus, best eligible player who hasn't been put in for an awful lot of fans out there. If you ask people, who's the number one omission among people who've already been eligible, certainly on the men's. player's side, his is the name that comes up most often. Now, how close does he come? He's been eligible since 2009. Has he been kicking around, you know, you need 14 votes out of 18 to get in?

If he's been kicking around like 10 to 12, did he get up to 13 for a few years, but he just hasn't quite got there? Okay, that would create one sense of perception. Is he getting one or two votes a year? That would be something else. Did they even nominate him this year? Did they even discuss him this year or the year before. We don't know. As far as, as why, look, as a player, I don't think you can make a case that he's not a Hall of Famer. I wrote his piece for the NHL 99 series that we did, where he was named one of our top

100 players of the modern era. I wrote the piece saying, how is this guy not in the Hall of Fame? People can go and read that, stand by it. That's my case for him. Yeah. As far as why is he not in? And again, the only three reasons I can think of is number one that they just don't feel like his case is strong enough. He didn't have enough points.

He didn't get the 500 goals. Didn't win an MVP. Okay, I don't think that's a strong case. But maybe that's how they feel. The second possibility is, like you said, he could be a bit of a jerk. And, you know, he famously didn't show up at an award ceremony once to accept the lady Bing. Maybe they don't think he'd show up. Maybe he's told him.

Maybe he's told him I don't care about the Hall of Fame. Give my spot to somebody else because it means nothing to me. Be nice to know that if that was the case. Unless we do hear it, then it's just total speculation. And then the third is the situation with Russia now. There were a few reports. I think maybe Rob Rossi was one of them saying that he had heard that given what's going on now that the Hall of Fame Committee is staying away from the Russian players.

again, I think people could understand that these days, but it'd be nice to hear it. And again, when it comes to Alexander McGilny, this isn't a guy who's only been eligible the last couple years. And you go, oh, boy, given the situation, maybe it's not. He's been eligible since 2009. So they had a decade to put him in before any of this stuff came on. And they didn't. So again, the committee has chosen. to treat this as the stone cutters,

it's top secret. And, you know, we, so we, we just have to fill in and try to figure out why a guy who not only at his peak had as much star power as anybody in the league. Back in 93, I mean, you would put McGilney right up there next to Merrill Lemieux and all the other guys as far as, like, I'm going to buy a ticket to go see this guy. Has the career numbers. and the importance that he has.

I would encourage anyone if you're younger or, you know, you've come to the game later. You just don't remember the story around there. Go back and look at the story of what had to happen for Alexander McGilny to come over. This guy was the first Soviet star to come to the NHL. He opened the door. You love Pavel Burry. You love Sergey Fedorov.

Go on down the list. McGilney was the guy who risked everything to open that door for. them had to defect. This was literal cloak and dagger stuff to get him away from that Russian program and over to America. And that's what that's what threw the door open. Just based on that, he belongs in the Hall of Fame, let alone everything that he did. So yeah, I don't know. I can't defend the committee here other than to say they may have their reasons, but since they've chosen not to tell us those reasons, I don't know where that leaves us other than to say it's it's a mistake. Yeah, there's a great story that always goes around from

Mogilny's days in Vancouver, where Mike Keenan is the coach in Vancouver and Mike Keenan for younger listeners, Mike Keenan was a real disciplinarian, hard-ass coach. And as the story goes, Keenan's in the room and he's lighting up Alex McGilney and he's kind of threatening him. And Alex McGilney very calmly says like Mike, like, I defected from Russia. They threatened to kill my family. Like, do you think that you're threatening me here? Like, you can't, you can't hurt. Like, you can't intimidate me.

And it's a great reminder. Like, I would encourage fans, go back and read about how the Stasni's had to leave the former, well, now Czech Republic, Chechia, but Czechoslovakia at the time. It's unbelievable. Like, having to leave and risk your life. Like, I don't think we realize. the risk that they that they took. And so yeah, it's just anyway, it's like you said, we can understand the current political environment precluding in from going in,

but that didn't apply in 10 years ago, or at least it didn't feel like it applied. So then they're going to have a real interesting situation on their hands with Ovechkin then down the road. And what if Ovechkin hangs up his skates? And in fact, you know what? Here's a question here. Again, another mailbag question.

This one from Jason in New York. Since the Hall of Fame list came out, do you think any current players in the league get the three-year exemption? They waive that three-year waiting period and they get into the Hall of Fame right away. What would McDavid have to do to get that exemption? So Mario Lemieux got it,

when Gretzky got it, the very best players of the history of the game, they don't wait three years. They're like, you're good to go. I would argue Crosby gets it and I would argue Ovechkin could get it. I think there's 10 guys who got it. Now, the Hall of Fame scrapped that after.

Oh, they did. They said that they weren't going to do that anymore. Now, it's a Hall of Fame rule. They scrapped it. They could bring it back. I mean, there's nothing stopping them if they decided. And under the old criteria, I mean, you look at the players who got the, I think Bobby Orr was another.

it's a very short list. It's kind of the absolute best of the best. I think even Phil Esposito didn't get it. And when you look at his career numbers, I mean, that he didn't get that treatment. And I think the hall just had been uncomfortable with it for a while because it sort of created another tier of induction. Like, I mean, you imagine instead of us celebrating Crosby,

us all arguing over whether he gets it waived or not. They could bring it back. But I do think they felt like Gretzky was the right time to say, okay, this is the last time we're going to do it. Would they do it? You know, if there's a tragedy, if they're saying, you know, who knows? But as of right now, they don't have that anymore. And, you know, as far as what would McDavid have to do, I mean, you almost have to be a top 10 player of all time to get that consideration at this point. And that would be even if they did bring it back, which up to this point, they have not done. Okay. One other Hall of Fame question here from a listener.

This one from Philip in Switzerland. And Philip in Switzerland has a question for you, Sean. Sean, you appear to be a Hall of Fame guy, someone who likes it and a debate that often swirls around it. So how can you convince me, fan of hockey in Europe, to care about the Hall of Fame? I'm a European who follows the NHL a regular basis. I consider myself pretty knowledgeable about the current NHL, but I've got no idea about the history of the league. Honestly, I don't care about the players who were good back in the 80s or 90s.

So I don't care about 90% of the male players in the Hall of Fame, less so for the builders. Growing up, I watched hockey, but only the Swiss League. So none of the players I grew up loving are in the Hall of Fame. A lot of hockey writers make sure to point out it's the Hockey Hall of Fame. but to me, I think it's clearly the NHL Hall of Fame. So I understand that the process is ridiculous, and apparently they don't seem to understand the women's perspective here.

So tell me, why should I care about the Hall of Fame? I'll give you a few reasons. First of all, you know, he says he's not really up on the history of the league. It's a great way to get there. It's a great way to learn about the history of the league. It, for all the flaws, it does just, a pretty good job of recognizing the best of the best. Obviously not perfect.

But they do do a good job. The building itself, the actual physical Hall of Fame is fantastic. If you're ever, if you're a hockey fan and you are ever in Toronto, it's almost a must-see. And beyond all of that, look, it's fun to debate this stuff. Even though we get frustrated sometimes or even though you get mad when your favorite player doesn't make it. It is a, it's fun to have these debates twice a year, right? Like, there's the two points on the calendar. There's June when they make the decision and then there's November when they do the inductions. We all get to argue back and forth about who

should be in, who shouldn't, and what the order should be. Hey, this is, this is fun sports fan debate stuff here, especially at a time of year where there's, there's maybe not a ton else that we'd be talking about. So, you know, I'm certainly not going to tell. you that you have to be interested in this stuff. We know, we've all got, you know, you've got a certain amount of, certain section of your brain devoted to hockey. And if it's already fill up, then I'm not going to, I'm not going to tell you that that you got to cram Hall of Fame stuff in there. But if you're looking for a reason, fun debates, good history. And ultimately, they do a reasonably good job of, you know, of capturing a lot of what makes this sport great. Yeah. And I would say, I think the double IHF

Hall of Fame probably does a better job of capturing what Philip in Switzerland is talking about about that European flavor to the game, less of an NHL impact. I think the double IHF does a pretty good job of doing that. All right. One other thing I want to point out, you mentioned Rob Rossi earlier. Rossi pointed out, Sean, that with Barrasso going into the Hall of Fame and Yager on the verge of, I guess, now, when's that waiting period up for Yager? Well, it's got to be when he finishes his career.

So he's not his NHL career. So technically he's still playing, right? Like so. Every time he rolls out for another, yeah, it kicks the can down another three years. Another few games, you know, 53 years old and he's out. Yeah, he, in theory, knocks it three years further down. So, but Rossi points out now with Barrasso in the Hall of Fame, and Yager at some point will be an automatic slam dunk. the 91 Pittsburgh Penguins, that's the team that won their first Stanley Cup,

they have nine players on that team that are Hall of Famers in Lemieux, Coffee, Trotchier, Francis, Murphy, Recky, Mullen, Barrasso, and then soon-to-be Yager. So I look this up real quick. The habs of the late 70s, they had nine players as well. They're in the Hall of Fame. Is that the number? that's the record, as far as you know? I believe, and I'm going to go to look at it right now,

I believe that the 2002 Red Wings had 10. Now let me look. Their top eight scores were all in, we're all Hall of Famers, and Dominic Hasick. Maybe it's only nine for those guys too. And a lot of them were guys who made their names with other teams.

I'll reach you down the list. So Brandon Chanahan, Sergey Federov. Brett Hall, Nicholas Lidsdrum, Luke Robatai, Steve Eiserman, Igor Larianov, Chris Chelyos. Now, they also have Pavl Datsu, who we assume is likely to go in, although given how the committee is handling Russian players right now, who knows. So that would bring them to 10. I think that would be the highest amount. And then if you're looking beyond that, obviously coach of that team was Scotty Bowman. The GM was Ken Holland.

he's in. And I believe Jimmy Devalano would have still been prominently involved. So that brings it to 13. And Mike Gillich, the owner was also inducted in the Hall of Fame. So I think that's where the bar might sit. And again, it's, you know, some people might look at that and go, well, yeah. But I mean, Luke Robitai wasn't a Red Wing Hall of Famer. Brett Hall wasn't a Red Wing Hall of Famer.

But they were all on that team. You mentioned Datsuk. He's eligible next year. Pavel Datsuk's first year of eligibility is next year. Let's move aside from him for a second. I'm going to throw one other name, but we're going to start the 2024 debate a little early. I'm going to give you the name.

You tell me, yeah, your name. Patrick Marlowe. I think he's getting in. I would, to me, just the ultimate compiler. And staying healthy and playing for a long time is worthy of, of respect and consideration. But, you know, to me, I put it this way, if pure Turgeon's in, then I think Patrick Marlowe has to be. But yes, I think he's in. Yeah. But I guess he would have my vote depending on who else was on the ballot with him. I know he, he's not a slam dunk to me,

but I think once he broke Cordy House games played record, I do think he's in. So let's focus here for a second, Sean, on the here and the now. And that is a very busy news cycle is upon us in the NHL, right? Like this is the 10-day window where we can expect some trades, free agency starts off Canada Day. It's a pretty exciting window of time to be in this business and being a fan. So let's start with the team that I think might have the most seismic changes in the summer. The Winnipeg Jets, they could potentially lose, depending on how this all plays out,

but Conor Helobach, Mark Sheifley, Pierre-Luc Dubois, Blake Wheeler. Like, I mean, that's essentially the core of your team outside of, you know, Connor and Eilers, but this, and Morrissey, but this is really, this could be one of the biggest facelifts we've ever seen. And I've seen the question people are asking, like, wow, have we ever seen, you know, a team lose so many players in one off-season? Now, in Ottawa, technically it wasn't in the off-season, but in one, one kind of six-month stretch, they lost Eric Carlson, Mark Stone, Matt Dushan, and I think Ryan Dzingal.

So a little less big on Dzingal. But those are three huge pieces in Carlson Stone and Duchet. But that was kind of during the season, training camp. So not necessarily applicable here. Is there a compare, if Winnipeg says goodbye, Sean, to Helibuck, Shifley, Dubois, Wheeler, whatever, what's the off-season comparison of a total tear-down, almost like what the Marlins used to do in baseball. Like you just, they're all gone.

So there are a few of us having this conversation in the Slack yesterday. And again, we should say this is if all those guys leave Winnipeg because we've certainly seen situations in the past where, you know, we're waiting for the big tear down and then it never quite comes. Lots of situations where teams lost a couple of huge pieces, Calgary last year, first and foremost, the Sabres in 2007 when they lost Drury and Danny Breyer to Free Agency. That was big.

One that stands out as far as relatively recent is the Blue Jackets back in 2019, didn't trade anyone, but when they lost Bobrovsky, Panarin, and you mentioned Matt Dushain all in the same offseason to Free Agency, that was a big one. But I don't think anyone can top. I'm going to give you one that I think is the all-time champion that'll never be top, but I'm going to leave it open. You can throw a flag on me if you want here. Okay.

1991 Edmonton Oilers. They trade Yari Curry. They trade Grant Fier and Glenn Anderson. And then they trade Mark Messier. Four Hall of Famers off the team, off a dynasty just dismantled in a way we've never seen before. Here's where you can throw the flag on me. technically the Messier. The Messier trade technically was on opening night of the season.

So after the first gave. So technically, if you want to say that's not the offseason, that's your flag. But even if you want to say that, you know, Curry, Feuren Anderson, I think is a pretty good group. And Messier, by the way, had walked from the team. Like, he said, I'm out of here. You're going to trade me. So everybody in Emmetton knew he was gone. It was just a question of where and what the final deal was going to be.

I don't think we'll ever top that. No disrespect to those guys in Winnipeg. But for four Hall of Famers, including at least two slam dunk first ballot guys, don't think we'll ever see that again. And not very pleasant memory for those Edmonton and other fans because never really fully recovered from that era. Yeah. What's interesting, I just double-checked is Anderson and Fier were traded to Toronto. but that deal didn't happen until September the 19th.

So that's kind of like right into training camp at that point, right? Yep. Yeah, a bit of a weird one. The trades used to be more spread out than they are now. This thing where if you haven't been traded by the draft, everybody just packs it up and goes home, wasn't really the thing. That was also Cliffletcher's first offseason in Toronto,

so maybe it took a little while longer to evaluate and piece it together. But yeah, it's, yeah, we used to see more of that sort of thing. partly because guys used to hold out or go home and walk out on teams that you just don't see anymore. Yeah. No, it's crazy to think you lost four Hall of Famers in basically a four-month stretch, but that was the Oilers. And we're not saying that the Jets are losing four Hall of Famers, but they're certainly losing four quality pieces potentially if all those moves come to fruition.

So I got to ask you to, like, Hella Buck's at an interesting spot because he's got one more year left on his deal and then he's a UFA. That's the same situation Timo Meyer is in with the Devils, Alex Debrinket in Ottawa. And I'm wondering, like, how would you, if you were in the general manager's chair in New Jersey, Ottawa, Winnipeg, like, how do you navigate this? Like, because usually when it's an RFA, the team has a lot of leverage, right? the team has a lot of control. But these are the rare instances where I actually think the player has a ton of leverage here. And like, how do you navigate this?

Yeah, it's, it's tough, especially since, you know, you look at the team situations. That's where you always start. Like, would this team be willing to just play this guy for another year and let him walk for nothing? And I know we always act like that's the biggest synergy I can commit. You can't let a guy walk for nothing. But we see it all the time, right? So guys get traded and they're a rental. And then the team they got traded to lets them walk for nothing.

And nobody says a thing because they got the time served off the guy they were looking for. New Jersey is the one team that I look at and say, like if they had to just go another year with Timom Meyer, like they're contenders already. Ottawa's maybe, I mean, they really are under pressure to make the playoffs next year. So, I mean, maybe you say you do it there as well. Hela-book's the one that's really fascinating to me because what is the market for goaltenders right now? After that postseason, we just saw, what are the other 31 GMs thinking when it comes to goaltending?

Because we just saw, on the one hand, we just saw Aidan Hill win a Stanley Cup. Aidan Hill, a guy who was arguably third or even fourth string on the Vegas Golden Knights, It's a guy who did not even see the ice in the first round. When they went in, even having injuries and stuff, they went, no, no thanks, Aiden. You sit on the bench, we're going to hand this over to others. Aiden Hill wins a Stanley Cup. So if I'm a GM, I'm going to, you want me to give up like first round picks or similar assets to bring in a goalie? Then I'm going to have to pay a huge contract.

No, I'll just go find the next Aden Hill, which is easier said than done. But worked for Vegas. flip side, we also just saw Sergey Brodowski pick up a we didn't think contender in the Florida Panthers by the scruff of the neck and drag them along with Matthew Kachov and some others obviously but drag them all the way to the Stanley Cup finals.

So maybe you do pay goalies. Maybe you do want those guys who have that veteran pedigree. Obviously, if you're Kevin Shevolday off and you're trading Connor Hallibug, you don't need 31 GMs to agree that it's worth it to pay big money. need to a goalie. You only need one trading partner and preferably a few others that you can get bidding against each other. But man, it's, I don't know. We always say at this time of year,

there's always a goalie carousel. And what do we always say, right? We end up talking about the Darcy Kempers and the Jack Campbell's and the Peter Morazics and all of these guys. And we always go, oh, you're paying too much. You're doing this or that. And somebody always parachutes in to say, Yeah, but guys, Vesina winners aren't available. Nobody's trading a Vesna winner in the offseason. Well, now we have a situation where a team is going to be trading a Vesna winner in the off season. And yet, boy, there's got to be a lot of teams looking at it going,

I don't want to go anywhere near that, especially if he wants, you know, eight, nine, ten million bucks on a long-term deal. He's already 30 years old. That has the potential to be a terrible contract. And yet, if you're a Buffalo or a New Jersey or one of these teams where you're looking at going, man, we are one player away and that player is our goalie. And here is one of the very best in the world. And he's available.

How do we not take that swing? I'm fascinated to see how that one works out. Timom Meyer, Alex DeMere, I mean, Timom Meyer, I still think probably signs in New Jersey. Alex DeBringkett doesn't sound like he's going to sign an odd-a-why. I think they will be able to find a trade partner reasonably easily. And then, you know, we'll see what kind of deal they make. Connor Hallibuck, man. I have no idea.

I can't wait to find out. Yeah, it's going to be fascinating. On the brinket, the way it's been explained to me is that it's very hard for him. There's a lot of stuff swirling around. But it's very hard for him to commit here six, seven, eight years when nobody can definitively tell him in his camp today, six months from now, 12 months from now, who's the GM and who's the coach? he doesn't know what he's signing up for. So I think that's part of it. I think if there was a little bit more clarity,

there might have been an opportunity to keep him here. I just think the stars are not going to align here. The timing isn't going to align. And as somebody who is very close to that situation told me two days ago, Sean, I kind of was poking around like, is he going to get traded or not? and the response I got back was essentially that bus has left the station. So I take that to me and he is going to get traded at some point. And I think it's going to happen before the art.

Like I don't think the draft is the deadline. I think the arb date is the deadline because you can't, if you're Ottawa, people say like, oh, you could take them to arbitration and maybe you talk them down and you get, you win your arbitration hearing and now you got to brinket at 7.6. million for next year. Well, the problem is now you can't do a sign in trade because he's not allowed to sign until January 1st. You've killed the sign and trade option, essentially, right? Like, you've killed it. So if you want to maximize value, sign and trade is the way to do it, and you got to do it before he locks in on a one-year deal because then you've basically taken

his hand and escorted him to unrestricted free agency. That's right. That's kind of the way it's explain to me. And that all makes sense. Now, what do you think the senators, because you're right, we talk about the draft being a deadline because very often we're saying, if you're going to trade this guy, you want a first round pick, you want this and that, and you want those picks now. You want to use them. You don't want to wait a year.

Are the senators, they gave up picks to get them? Are they looking to get picks back? Or is this more of a case where they want somebody who's going to go into the lineup next year? Because like we said, the pressure to make the playoffs on this team, forget about pure or Dorian, whether he's even here or not, just it feels like this fan base has been hearing the rebuilds over for three years running now. And to take, you know, even the 20-something goals, Alex DeBring had scored out of the lineup without replacing it is a, is, is tough. So what do they do? What kind of package are they looking at? So I, I think, though, they do have to recoup some draft

capital here, draft value. Because think of it this way. Last year, At the draft, they traded away the seventh overall pick for De Brinket, not to mention another second and a fourth, okay? Which we all thought was a great deal at the time. I'm not here to have any revisionist history. I think it was the right move at the right time. You were trying to be bold. Whatever.

I'm not going to come in here and criticize that. But then they traded this year's first round pick, which ended up being 12th overall to Arizona for Jacob Chikrin. then you go back one year further to 2021 when they had the 10th overall pick. And I don't want to say that this guy's, he's a project still, but that's Tyler Boucher. He's a project. So it's very hard, as you know, to basically go three straight years having top 12, these were three straight years of top 12 picks. And you don't have potentially much to show for it right now.

I still hold out hope. I think Boucher can be a player. I just don't know where he ends up. It was a role of the day. Questions around it even at the time. Totally. They passed on Cole Cillinger and some other. Anyway, long story short,

I think you need to recoup some draft capital here. And then you need to turn around with the flexibility that you might have from not having to pay Alex to brink it $9 million, whatever. Now you turn around and go to a cash cap strap team and say, okay, what can we do? Or you go into free agency and you try and land. I don't know, Tyler Batuzi or something. You try and do something.

But I think your number one goal should be to try to recoup a first-round pick here because you've... Boy, and then you add the extra layer on that. I mean, we're saying this is what you do and we're kind of using a generic you, but it's not you. It's Pierre Dorian, a guy who is, if not GMing for his job right now, maybe auditioning for his next one. So if I'm Peerodorian, I'm sitting there going... Do I really want to stock the cupboard with draft picks for whoever's going to replace me? Or do I want to make a big swing now that has people talking, yeah, hot Pierre summer again. And they got to keep me.

It's going to be an interesting situation to watch. Yeah. The other one I want to hit on real quick is Eric Carlson, because Monday in Nashville, Carlson will very likely win the Norris Trophy is the league's top defensemen. If I'm guessing based on the way that some people have talked about, you know, the way they voted or whatever, reading the T-Leaves, I think Carlson's going to win. Here's my question for you. Has anybody been traded after winning one of the major, major awards? I'm not talking about somebody wins a Selkie or somebody wins a, you know, one of these sort of Lady Bing. I'm saying heart for MVP, Norris for top defenseman,

Vezna for top goalie. Has anybody been traded, boom, that summer? Like they didn't play another game with the team. I was thinking about racking my brain. I'm like, did Hachic get traded after winning a cup in Buffalo? Oh, sorry, a Vezna in Buffalo. Don't careful. Boy, twist that knife on Sabres fans right there.

Wow. That's the only. Yes. He won a Vesna in 2001. And then he got traded or he was a free agent? He was traded to Detroit. Yeah. Not for much, but he was, he was traded. Man, that might be the only one.

Certainly, I mean, we know there have been guys, Joe Thornton got traded during an MVP season. There have been guys who were traded not long after. But, oh, when was Chris Chelyos traded? What, from Montreal to Chicago? Yeah, you're a abs fan because he won the Norris. No, he played the 89-90 season with the half. And I think it was the summer of 1990. There you go.

So that was a year after. So he's not our guy. I'm just kind of looking down the list. The Paul Coffey, I think, was a little while later. And that dragged into the season. Did Al McKinness ever win in Calgary? I don't think he did. I know he did in St. Louis, but that might be it.

I mean, did Randy Carlisle win and then get traded? Randy Carlisle won, but did he get traded? Would anyone even remember? Yeah. 81, no, he won with Pittsburgh. He was there for a couple years after. Rod Langway had only won in Washington. Kind of going down the list.

P.K. Subman was a few years. This could be it. Yeah, I don't. Certainly for the Norse trophy. I can't see that it's ever happened before. I didn't go back into the real olden days. But yeah, this might be a first. And by the way, I should say, I'll believe it when I see it on Eric Carlson. I sort of planted my flagpole at the deadline when there, or even in the months leading

up to the deadline when there was talk, he was having such a great season. and I said, this is the time to trade him. Now, when a team, when he's as hot as he's ever going to be, he's healthy, a team knows they get this playoff run out of them, and they kick the can down the road to the summer. We heard that same old refrain, too complicated, can't get it done during the season, too many moving pieces, all that stuff that doesn't apply in other sports,

but apparently does apply in the NHL, I don't think they're going to be able to do it. I don't think, I know there's more caper room available. I think it's a tougher deal to make. But we'll see. Maybe Mike Rue proves me wrong, but I will believe it when I see it. I think the time to do it was during the season last year.

We read some emails earlier in the show, The Athletic Hockey Show at gmail.com is where you can reach us via email. But you can also leave us a voicemail at 845-4-45-8459. Sean, let's open up this voice. Let's play this voicemail for the listeners. Last week we're talking about hat tricks, and it was the Mark Stone hat trick and throwing hats on the ice and all that stuff. Well, Chris in Oregon has a hat trick story he'd like to share with the listeners. I was listening to your show last night and you're talking about hat tricks.

Typically, I'll go to a game and wear a non-sentimental hat. I'm not wearing a Stanley Cup champion's hat because it in case you have to throw it. One particular time, I forgot to bring a hat. and when you know it, my favorite player, Timu Svani, scored two goals in like the first period. And during the intermission, I went to the store, bought a hat. It happened to be a small child-sized hat with Timu's number on it. So I was like, this is perfect to throw away.

And sure enough, he finishes the hat trick. We were sitting behind the goal in the lower bowl. So there was netting. And I threw the hat, hits the netting, drops down in front of the people the front row and they turn around and ask me if it wanted to back and I said no I bought that specifically to be thrown and so they pass it along the road to the edge where there's no more netting and it gets to a kid their dad picks them up tries to throw it over the glass and it hits the top of the glass tries to throw it one more time hits the top of glass third time the charm

goes on the ice and the whole section was like watching this whole saga unfold cheered and erupted just for that hat after already erupting for a big goal and big hat trick. and it was just everything that was great about going to a game. So I agree, you got to follow the rules, throw your hats, and don't tell the Tuesday boys the three Zs, but I think Thursday is my favorite athletic hockey show edition. All right. I like that little comment at the end, by the way,

of Chris Sand, the Thursday show is his favorite. That's right. I'm not saying that's why he got on the show, but it's, we're not not saying it. And I love those stories. I love any, one of my favorite thing, sports is anytime like a crowd or a section of the crowd just decides to randomly get behind something.

Yeah. You know, whether it's, you see the clip sometimes where like some little kid on the scoreboard suddenly is getting the big cheers or, you know, in the crowd or somebody throws a paper airplane and suddenly that, that whole section is cheering it on, watching it, trying to get down to the field. I love that stuff. So this is a good example of that. And yeah, very heads up play.

Going, going and hitting the souvenir stand and getting the cheap hat. just in case, that's smart. I love it. Anthony in Ottawa writes in Sydney Crosby's 12-year contract at $8.7 million. Is that the best contract in NHL history? Not for Sydney Crosby's accountant. It wasn't. But Dom had the piece this week that was really interesting that I would encourage people to check out,

where he was looking at it from the Austin Matthews perspective and saying something, that we've talked about with a lot of these guys signing these eight-year deals saying you're leaving a huge amount of money on the table if you sign that kind of contract in your prime in a rising cap situation and that Sidney Crosby unintentionally it's probably fair to say but essentially created a salary cap for individual players by signing that deal. Now there have been bargain deals that other players have signed Nathan McKinnon famously, David Pasternak, Brad Marshan for years. But I think you could make a good case that Crosby's was the, you know, really the ultimate

in discount deals, especially given the length of it, the fact that it was before the 10-year, or sorry, the eight-year max that we have now. Yeah, you know, Dom kind of runs the calculations and he figures that Sidney Crosby left 50 million bucks on the table pretty easily by signing that deal. And instead of going with shorter deals and then re-upping as the cap went up, I know people say, yeah, but guys get hurt. I know people say, hey, you know, what are you going to, what are you going to buy with 150 million that you couldn't buy with 100?

I get all of that. But if it matters to players to maximize their earnings, then they're not doing a very good job of it right now. And yeah, I think you could make the case. that's a pretty good one. And the other thing is that you see with some teams, not all of them, but these teams where they get one guy locked into a bargain deal, which is great to start with. You've got a key, maybe even franchise level player making a lot less that he should.

But then that gets used as like the ceiling for everyone else, where you go, well, you can't make more than this guy. I mean, why are you saying you're better than this guy? No, we all got to fit in under that. then you're just compounding the savings over and over and over again on all these rates. That puts you in a great situation. And to some extent, that's what we saw with Crosby with guys like Malkin and Lattang. So we'll see.

I think there's a pretty good case for it. And it'll be interesting to see what other players, especially Austin Matthews, do whether they take a different approach. I can probably guess, but we'll have to wait and find out. You know, I think that there's an argument to be made that the best contract, at least from a team perspective, ever signed, Wayne Gretzky with the Oilers, signed a 21-year contract. Okay? So in 1982, at the sort of the peak of his powers, and he was only 21 years old at the time, Wayne Gretzky signs a 21-year contract worth a million dollars a year. and I'm reading the United Press story from the day the deal is done. It says, although the exact details of the contract were not revealed,

Peter Pocklington said Gretzky, with a variety of bonuses clauses in his contract, could make in excess of $20 million in the contract. Under the arrangement, Pocklington said Gretzky will acquire a large piece of real estate after six years. Enjoy your parking lot, Wayne Gretzky, or whatever you got from Peter Parkington there.

Yeah. Some of those old contra, man, and that would have been unheard of back then too. And, you know, dumb makes this point. Like even the first few years of the cap, we saw all sorts of guys

signing for, as a percentage of the cap, much more than anybody gets now, much more than Connor McDavid, much more, you know, guys were signing not, you know, close to, or maybe getting up close to that 20% limit. But they were doing it on three-year deals.

The idea of stretching out, hey, what if we did eight years? What if we did 10? What if we did 14 and just how ridiculous it got? But yeah, maybe Gretzky was the original of that 20 years. Now, I got to point out, back then you could tear up contracts and redo them. And Gretzky, I think, did get, had that done quite a few times. He wasn't completely locked in like guys are now. But boy, like, if you're Jack Hughes, look, I'm sure Jack Hughes is living a good life right now.

I'm sure Jack Hughes is, you know, not eating Kraft dinner because he can't get anything else. But already, man, how? Eight years? For a guy who's going to be an MVP, he's going to be making $8 million a year on the cap? That might be the one that knocked Crosby off by the end of it because, holy smokes. I mean, tens of millions of dollars just left on the table. But, hey, some people would say, no, he didn't leave it on the table. he left it for other people.

They were going to go onto the roster and help him win a Stanley Cup. I guess we'll see. Ted and Kingston, I'll read one more email. Ted and Kingston has an email. I joined the podcast last week. You guys were talking about that random guy who wore a Connor Bedard jersey

to the New York Mets Yankees game. I want to share with you what we do when we show up to a game. We play a game called Worst Jersey. Me and my buddies always look for the following four things. Number one, a player who nobody in the fan base likes, i.e. somebody wearing a Larry Murphy jersey for the leaves.

Number two, we look for a player who just had a random cup of coffee with a team, i.e. Joseph Boumedienne for the senators. Number three, we look for a fan who's wearing a jersey of a team not playing in the city that night, i.e. the Habs fan who shows up to a Calgary Toronto game. And last but not least, the fourth thing we always look for, guy who puts his own name on the back of a jersey with a customized number. That comes in from Ted and Kingston.

Are those sweater penalties? That's the, that's the gimmick that you and I invented. Yes, uniform infractions. Yes. I feel like, first of all, I just want to say on the, putting your own name on the jersey, I feel like there's an age limit on that. like I feel like that's if you're a kid

I could handle the kid doing that but I think once you get to a certain age it's and I don't know it's probably related to whatever the age limit for bringing your baseball glove to a to a major league game is yeah I don't know okay do we have time can I tell my favorite putting your own name on the jersey story um

yeah and and people who have read me going back years know this one but obviously there's there's always new people coming aboard one of the things I used to like to do still do is find an old NHL clip and really microanalyze it, especially if it's some weird or infamous moment, really break it down. And the one I did one year, this is, we're talking 10 years ago now at this point. I'm a nobody. I just got my little blog going.

But I did a breakdown of the Gary Lehman-Denny Savard fight. And I'm kind of putting air quotes around fight there. And if you don't know what I'm talking about, I have given you a gift. Go on YouTube type Gary Lehman, Denny Savard, and thank me later because you only get to watch stuff like this one time. And I'm so happy for you if you get to do that now. But what happened was this was a 1989 game, Leaves and Blackhawks.

Line brawere breaks out. Danny Savard and Gary Lehman pair off to fight. And then they spend quite literally two full minutes shadowboxing each other. Like it was one of the most ridiculous things ever And so I did this whole breakdown Of all of these different weird things And one of the weird things that happens During that fight is that

There is a moment Where the camera that is following it Gets completely blocked by a small child Which makes Which sounds weird right You're like why how could the camera Well this is in these old buildings These cameras were in bad spots

And if anybody stood up It would block it up That's how if you were a Leaves fan back then you knew a game was great when they went to the overhead camera because that meant everybody was standing. Right. Yeah. And that was the only camera they had.

So this little kid stands up and he blocks the camera. And I was making a joke about how bad the camera placements were. But I noticed this kid on his back. On the nameplate, it said durno. And I knew that wasn't any Maple Leaf that had ever played, certainly on that team. I was wondering, is that, you know, is it a phrase? Is it, you know, what is it? And I ended up typing it into Google and all I could find was that there was this guy, this career minor leaguer in the avalanche system whose last name was Derno.

That was the only reference I could find to those letters strung together. And I thought, okay. And then I thought, you know, there's no way. Couldn't possibly. But I looked and the age lined up and the guy had grown up in Toronto. And as I clicked around a little bit, I found this interview with. this guy. And he talked about being a Leafs fan when he was a little kid. And he talked about, they asked him like, why do you wear your jersey number? And he was like, well, this number

they just gave to me. But he said, when I was a kid, my number was eight. And I went back and I looked and it was a number eight. And I said, is it possible that this kid ended up, the kid who's blocking the camera on this infamous fight ended up being this minor league hockey player? And God bless the internet. Within like a day, somebody reaches out to me. And they're like, I know Chris Derno's family. I'll find out for you. And a couple hours later, I get the message back going, yep, that's him. He was at that game.

And so we found out like, this is Chris Derno. We actually identified this kid. The epilogue on that is later that year, maybe a couple years later, I'm a little fuzzy. Chris Derno, the 28-year-old career minor leagueer finally gets the call to the NHL. And he makes his NHL debut. I think it was on Hockey Night in Canada. And Hockey Night Canada, because I'd written about it, found that clip and they played it on Hockey Night Canada of like here is, you know, it was basically like, hey, we saw Chris Derno make his NHL debut,

but it was not his Hockey Night and Canada debut because here it was, here he was as this eight-year-old blocking the camera. So if you put your own name on a jersey, be careful because you never know what some loser blogger 20 years later is going to dig up. and throw it out there for your kids. Hockey Night and Canada debut. The Chris Durnal story remains. Never let it be said that I don't do investigative journalism. Thanks. What a great random story with that.

All right. Let's wrap it up like we always do with a little this week in hockey history. I'm just going to do one of these today. And I want to take our listeners back to the mid-1970s. And in fact, this week in 1975, the Los Angeles Kings signed free agent Marcel Dion. It's technically it's like a sign and trade type of thing. But, Sean, this is one of the weirdest things, in my opinion, in hockey history, because Marcel Dion was taken right at the top of the NHL drop.

Like him and Gie LaFleur were like the one, two guys. They were neck and neck. Montreal got LaFleur. Detroit gets Deon and Dionne in his first four years is actually better than Lafleur like his production's better he's coming off a

121 point season at the age of 23 with Detroit and then they inexplicably let him go to the LA Kings what on earth happened with Marcel Dion and the Red Wings? Yeah a very weird situation because like this is the mid-70s

free agency is new as a concept to sports, right? This is right around the time you've had Kurt Flood in baseball and it's the situation of I don't have a contract anymore. I want to sign a contract somewhere else. And in fact, this was the first big free agent signing in the NHL because remember the WHA is also going on. So the players have some leverage here.

I don't want to play for Detroit. Like, you know, you could say, well, you don't want to play for Detroit. Well, they own your right. Sorry. Go play somewhere else. Well, I will go play somewhere else. I have an option now. So eventually he was granted free agency.

He signs with L.A., but then the league almost like retroactively comes in and goes, no, no, we can't do this this way. You have, it has to be a trade. And they then force L.A. and Detroit to kind of work out a trade for this guy who's already signed as a free agent. And again, you'd never see that these days, but back then it was new. Like people weren't really sure how to handle this. And yeah, it was just a case where, as Red Wing fans would tell you, those 70 Red Wing's teams were not well run.

They were not good teams. It was the darkness with Harkness after Ned Harkness, who was a very successful guy in the hockey world up to the point where he was the GM of the Red Wings. Marcel Dion said, I want out. And contractually, he was able to make it happen. And then the league came back and said, no, you've got to do this train. And that's why when you look back at that trade, you're like, oh, that's not a, they, Detroit got swindled. Well, they didn't really get swindled.

They had lost a free agent. And then they recouped some of the value in a forced trade with the Kings. But a very strange situation that we certainly never see again. But just by virtue of being quite literally the first time the NHL had had to deal with free agency on this level. Yeah. No, it's one of the wilder, wilder's choice. But good place to leave it there. We got to get ready.

Next week we're doing the pod together in Nashville in person. Boy, it should be a lot of fun, right? Because the night before, it's probably going to be some trades. A lot of things are going to be going off. So it should be a fun time when we get together in Nashville. So we'll do it up. And I'm sure we'll get a whole bunch of questions between now and then. A reminder, as always, the athletic hockey show.

At gmail.com, got any questions for us around the draft, get the draft, whatever it is, athletic hockey show at gmail.com. Thanks for listening to the Thursday show. I want to remind you, you can get a one-year subscription to the athletic for a dollar a month for 12 months. You visit theathletic.com slash hockey show.