The Athletic Hockey Show - How are the Golden Knights doing this?

Episode Date: May 26, 2026

The Vegas Golden Knights are just one win away from eliminating the powerhouse Colorado Avalanche from the playoffs and advancing to the Stanley Cup Final for the third time in nine years as an NHL franchise. Today, the guys break down how Vegas is putting it all together at the exact right time and how injuries to Cale Makar and Nathan MacKinnon have derailed the Avs. Plus, thoughts on the Carolina Hurricanes dominating the Montreal Canadiens in Game 3 of the Eastern Conference Final and one Conn Smythe pick for each of the final four teams left in the playoffs to close things out.Hosts: Max Bultman and Mark LazerusWith: Jesse GrangerExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Chris FlanneryWatch full episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowJoin our Discord Server: https://discord.gg/VTm9VjkFSubscribe to The Athletic: https://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Hey, everybody, Max Boltman here alongside the athletics, Mark Lazarus and Jesse Granger for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show. There's two series going right now, guys. There's the one you get to cover and the one you get to enjoy. I want to start with the one that both of you got to cover, Colorado and Vegas and Jesse. In a series that Vegas had jumped out and grabbed by the throat, we'll say, to start this out. The avalanche go up 3-0 in game 3, and Vegas just marches back. Are they starting to feel like a team of destiny to you?

Yeah, they're inevitable. That's what this team feels like. It just feels like I've been covering all these playoff games, and whether it was Utah, Anaheim, Colorado, it feels like it doesn't really matter what happens in this game because the Golden Knights will win this game. Like, it doesn't matter how many goals they give up in the first period. It doesn't matter what the scoring chances are this team is.

inevitable. They just seem to cash in on every opportunity they get. They're getting phenomenal goaltending. This team at this point right now feels inevitable is the best word I can think of to describe the Golden Knights. And I think if you asked the caller to avalanche and they were honest, they would probably feel, they would probably say something similar. You know, it's funny because I was, I was in Denver for game five against Minnesota in the second round when the, when the avalanche came back from 3-0 down. Nathan McKinnon scored that incredible goal to send it to overtime and Brett Kulak wins it in overtime. And in my column that night, I said, Nathan McKinnon and the Colorado avalanche are, wait for it, inevitable. It's funny how things can change so quickly in the playoffs. Now the avalanche

looked like this lost puppy just like looking for its mommy at home. And Vegas is this big, bad team. It's just incredible how quickly fortunes can change in the playoffs. So there's a few things that have gone well for Vegas in this series, Jesse. But I think the one I want to start with is getting William Carlson back. The impact that he's had on this series feels like a, a major needle mover from where Vegas was when they started these playoffs. Yeah, he does so much for this team. And number one on that list being he is a shut down center and it does it as well as any center in the NHL. And he he's a great skater, which I think also matters for this team as good as the Golden Knights are. If you were trying to find a weakness, I would say

that they're not the fastest skating team. And we kind of saw that in the first series against Utah. They struggled to skate with Logan Cooley and Dylan Gunther at times. They get Carlson back for that Anaheim series. He's basically, he hadn't played in months. He comes in and it looks like he's been playing the whole season. That's just William Carlson. And he's been phenomenal in this series. He gives them so much speed up the middle. That center depth really is their biggest strength. And it's, they've been able to slow the Colorado avalanche down. Like, you don't see Nathan McKinnett. Now he's, he's hurt. But even when Nathan McKinnon was healthy, how many times did he come flying in on the goalie? Like you're so used to seeing every night. It just doesn't happen because

William Carlson, Jack Eichle, Mitch Marner, they're three phenomenal skaters who know how to stay above the puck at all times, and they are making the avalanche work for every inch. Yeah, and the center depth is supposed to be Colorado's strength, right? You've got Nathan McKinnon, then you've got Brock Nelson, then you've got Nazim Kaudry who they get at the deadline, and Jack Doree on the fourth line, and all of a sudden Colorado looks like Minnesota,

overwhelmed by some other team's center depth. Brock Nelson can't hit the net no matter how many close chances he gets. Nazim Kodry's been largely just, a non-factor. And now McKinnon is completely hobbled. We don't know if he's going to play tonight. I'm sure he's going to play tonight. No matter what, he'll get out there.

But if he's anything like he was in the third period of game three, he's basically useless. He was he was Alex Ovechkinning it on the power play, just standing around hoping the play would come to him. And what makes Nathan McKinnon so great is he forces the play. And he can't do that on one leg. So it's really just dire because Vegas is doing to Colorado exactly what Colorado did to Minnesota.

It's kind of a buffet. We'll get to the Colorado side of things in a second. It's kind of a buffet of topics on Vegas because there's so many storylines for this team. I mean, the Mitch Marner saga, I think continues to be the best story of the playoffs. Brett Howden has really had a moment. And then there's John Tortorella of it all. And this is kind of an interesting one. And everyone's made the point already.

But if you're an NHL head coach, you are rooting so hard against the Vegas Golden Knights from pulling off the Stanley Cup win. Because what is going to stop teams from firing their coaches in April now and bringing in your so-called tournament coach. I mean, there's very few guys who can do it at the level Tortorella does, but they've really tested the limits of the new coach bump, and it's taken them to pretty good places right now, Jesse. Yeah, I think it's a new coach bump in combination with the goalie is as red hot as you'll ever see a goal.

Like, a goalie cannot be hotter than Carter Hart has been in these playoffs. But I think when it comes to Tortorella, the interesting part is I don't even, and like this might sound like I'm like, criticizing Tortorella, but it's working. I don't think he's doing much. I think what John Tortorella has done is come in and he's looked at this assistant coaching staff that the Golden Knights have. And I think Vegas has as elite of an assistant coaching staff as there is in the NHL. They've got Johnny Stevens coaching the defenseman, obviously had a ton of success with the Kings. He's been a head coach a lot of years. They've got Dominique Ducharm coaching the forwards.

He just took Montreal Canadiens to a Stanley Cup final during the weird COVID year. they've got Joel Ward coaching the forwards. He kind of works with everybody. He's new in his coaching career, but I think the world of Joel Ward's coaching ability. They've got Sean Farrell, the skills coach. They've got Sean Burke is one of the best goalie coaches in the NHL. And I think that Tortorella has done a good job of getting out of the way.

He comes in with eight games left. He doesn't know this team as well as these assistants know it. I think he's done a good job of letting those guys kind of push the right buttons. He sort of just orchestrates from the top. He's kind of the puppeteer that doesn't really get his hands into anything, any of the details, but he just injects confidence into this team. He's a super motivating guy. The players all say you want to run your head through a brick wall to play for John Tortorella.

But in terms of the strategy and the details, I think the assistant coaching staff deserves a ton of credit. And I think Tororella deserves a ton of credit for allowing them to do what they've done. And I don't think he would disagree with that. That's pretty much what he said when he arrived is he was not going to come in and do this big overhaul. I forget what the word he used was going to be a guidance counselor. Was that, was that the language? He did use that word. Yeah, he's been all about the mental side. It is not the disciplinarian John Tortorella that we're used to. He has been the sunshine John Tortorella, at least to the players. He might not be to us every day, but to the players he is. I heard about that. That's because they've been winning, right? I mean, if you're winning all the time, you could be the vibes coach, right? You know, he came in and they closed out the season. They lost like, what, one game under him in the regular season. And then they tear through the playoffs. You could be the vibes guy. You could be. You could be the vibes guy. You could. You could be. be the hey, I'm just giving these guys confidence. I don't need to tweak a whole lot.

And I'm sure there have been adjustments made. There's been things that he's done. But it's almost like the players are under strict orders not to describe that and just say, he's giving me more confidence to be myself. He's making me, he's accountability a lot with these guys when they're talking about what, because everyone's asking, we're all trying to figure out, what is John Tordarella done here? Because it's remarkable the turnaround. This team almost missed the playoffs. They were so bad for stretches in the regular season. And yes, a coach does not automatically make your goal. a 950 goalie, and that's what's happening with Carter Hart right now, and that makes any coach

look good. But there has to be some kind of adjustments, some kind of minor deal. And that's the thing in the playoffs. It doesn't take a systems change. You don't overhaul what you're doing at the last minute, but you make minor adjustments and you put guys in a position to succeed. And John Tortarella, these are words that usually don't come out of my mouth, deserves a ton of credit for what he's doing right now. Jesse, on Hart, like, where did this come from? Because not only was this not a goalie who carried this kind of workload in the regular season. He played 18 games in the regular season. He's already up to 15 in the playoffs.

Tonight, it'll be 16. The performance numbers, I mean, he was not this guy in the games we saw him in the regular season. And he really, even in the first round, it's since the start of round two, something has happened for Carter Hart. Yeah, I mean, when you consider how long he went without playing hockey, it's not particularly surprising that it took him some time to get back up to speed. I don't think anyone expected him to be up to this speed. This is a level above anything we even saw in Philadelphia when he was like, I mean, this is a highly touted goalie coming out of the draft.

He was his first two years in the NHL were very good. He was thought of as a franchise goalie. I don't know if he ever has had this good of a stretch of hockey in his entire life. This is just riding a heater, but I will say it's because his skating is so good. He is an elite skater. He gets to where he needs to be faster than most goalies. He's in position. And then like early in the playoffs, I remember against you.

Utah, he had a couple of rough games. And it was, he wasn't, he wasn't out of position. He wasn't misreading plays. He just, his gloves weren't sharp. Like, Utah was just beating him with shots high where he was in position and he just didn't glove it. And that has gone away. His gloves seemed as sharp as ever against Colorado. I think it's also a combination of Vegas is blocking so many shots that Colorado is tentative. When they, when they get the puck, they, I think it's in their heads. I think it's in the players' heads that these shooting lanes are being collapsed by the defenseman. So I think that they're just hesitating a little bit on these shots.

It gives Carter Hart that extra half millisecond to set his feet, get ready for it. So then when they do get the shots through, he's making the saves and making him look easy. He's locked in right now. I think the shot blocking is a big part of it, and not to take anything away from what Hart's doing. But he's not being tested that severely by this avalanche team because very few shots are getting through. And because the shooting lanes keep clogging up, the avalanche are taking a couple of extra moments to make a play, and then they're trying to pick a corner.

And they are missing the net. It's just, I've never seen a team miss so many, missed the net so often from point-blank rage. Brock Nelson is example number one, but he's hardly alone. Everything is just high. It's just wide. They're trying to pick corners because any opportunity you get right now is so valuable because most of the time those lanes aren't open that they're getting too cute with it. They need to just pepper him with shots.

We know that Carter Hart is not this good. He's probably not as bad as he was in the regular season, but he's not. not this good either. And the avalanche need to push him that they're not getting any traffic in front of him. He's seeing every shot and the shots he doesn't see are getting blocked by the Vegas defenders. So it's a perfect storm for a goalie to have a 950 or whatever he has, say, a percentage because the avalanche are in their own heads. Carter Hart is also in their heads. There's a lot, there's not a lot of room in these avalanche heads right now. They are feeling a lot of pressure right now. What's funny is, I remember in the first round saying, man, Utah is missing more

net than I've ever seen any team missed. This is unbelievable. Then we get to the second. round against Anaheim, and I'm like, no way. The ducks are doing it too. Like the ducks cannot hit the net for the life of them. And I'm like, okay, but it's the avalanche. They're probably the best skill, like shooting talent. They're probably number one in the NHL. They aren't going to do it. Well, we're three games in, and yes, they are. It's clearly something the Golden Knights defense is doing. Nobody can hit the net against this team. And that's kind of the interesting thing that I have struggled to square on this series. On one hand, I don't think anyone can be too surprised. Even for as bad as it looked at times in the regular season,

this Vegas team is very season. They're proven. They know how to win this style of hockey still suits them as fast as the avalanche are. I think that that's a worthy counterpunch to that. And Jesse, you talked about it's not a ton of team speed on the avalanche, but they know how to play at this time of year. I want to kind of give them that credit for, hey, that this is a Vegas thing, but it also does seem less.

Like, things are just coming apart for Colorado. And you can talk about missing the net. I think it all starts with the injuries to two of the 10 best players in the world. Well, sure. I mean, you don't have Cal McCarr for the first two games. and even in the third game, he looked like his old self-skating, but he wasn't taking any slap shots.

We all think it's a shoulder injury. He's certainly limited in some way, and his return gave them a lift, but then you lose Nathan McKinnon. You see him on the ice. Jared Bender said in 10 years, he's only seen Nathan McKinnon lay on the ice twice.

Like, that's how badly he was hurt. This is not a guy who likes to show weakness, and he gets up to his credit. He gets up on one knee after blocking that Shay Theodore shot, and he clears the puck out of the zone on one knee, and then he just collapsed right back down to the ice. This guy's in agony.

You saw him limping back to the bench, and he's trying to play. He comes out in the third period. He comes out, he plays a minute 59 shift. He plays the entire power play, and he was completely useless on that. And, you know, Nathan, Gabriel Landisog is the beating heart of this team. He's the captain. He's the leader. But this team goes as Nathan McKinnon goes.

And when you see Nathan McKinnon just a shell of himself, this like charred husk of a man, it clearly affected the avalanche and their ability to kind of keep up in that game. And this has proven to be, and I wrote this today, shockingly mentally fragile team. Like when the Vegas gives them any pushback at all, for a team that was so good, and you look at that comeback in game five against Minnesota, that was not that long ago

that they showed incredible heart and incredible resilience and resolve. Now, the second Vegas pushes them, they're on their heels, and they are playing timid and they are hesitant. It's just incredible how weak they look. And you go back, and this is a championship team.

There's nine guys still on this team from the 2022 champs. they never win when they're trailing. They've never won a series in the Jared Bedner era when they've trailed in a series more than one-nothing. Araf Dean of Colorado Hockey Now was giving me the numbers last night and they're incredible. They're 0-and-5 in game sevens.

They're oh-and-whatever when it's down 3-2. They're 0-and-whatever when they're down 2-1. I have been around championship teams. And I know people roll their eyes when I start talking about the mid-2020s Blackhawks. But I've seen what it looks like when a championship team is down. They're mad. They're angry.

They're defiant. They're like, screw you. We're still going to win this. Colorado's not looking like that. They're not sounding like that. Their body language is off. They're talking quietly. They keep pointing to the analytics.

The scoring chances are, you know, it's been pretty even. No, you should be furious you're down through it. You're the best team in the league. And they're not acting like it. They don't look like it. They're not talking like it. They look like a defeated, just morally and emotionally destroyed team. And it's incredible that a team.

that a team with this much talent and this much experience can look like that. And Vegas is all of the opposite of that. Like I opened it up saying like they're inevitable. I think that there is an interesting dynamic we see with this Golden Knights team that may be different from any, I'm assuming they're going to make it to the Stanley Cup final because I don't see a Colorado winning four in a row. There may not be a team that's made it to the Stanley Cup final like the Golden Knights in NHL history.

And this is what I mean by that. So it's not a stat we look at a ton, but there's a website called More Hockey Stats, and they track how many minutes each team is trailing during the regular season. The Vegas Golden Knights trailed the second most minutes of any team in the NHL, which almost seems unbelievable. The only team that was trailing more than them are the Vancouver Canucks. And it was close. Vegas almost trailed for more than Vancouver. Vancouver had 58 points. They had the worst record in the entire NHL by a mile.

And the team that's about to be in the Stanley Cup final that is just trouncing the Colorado Avalanche in the Western Conference final trailed for almost the amount of minutes that it was almost 2,000 minutes. And I asked Mitch Marner after the game the other night, is it possible to be comfortable while losing? And have you guys acquired that skill? Because I think that being on the wrong side of the scoreboard is stressful as a hockey player. Like no matter what, like you're just going to, you're not going to play your best. You're going to force things. you're going to do things you wouldn't otherwise do because the scoreboard says just those numbers on the scoreboard make you stressed out. I think this Vegas team had tons of comebacks this year. They have so much belief that when the score is not working out for them,

they can stick to their game, not open things up and play their game and get back in it better than maybe any other team in the league. And you didn't want to be trailing for all that. Bruce Cassidy probably lost his job for it. But man, does it seem to be paying dividends? because this team is down and it just feels like I said, it just feels like it doesn't matter what has happened in this game. I feel it, they feel it, everyone in the building feels it. They're going to win. We talked about the coach aspect of this very early with Tortorella.

But, Las, what you just said, that stat on Bedner, I mean, I think that is going to be a part of the conversation here, especially if this series ends quickly, is what do you do here as Colorado? I mean, Jared Bedner has been such a good coach there. But if they're hitting a wall and, you know, I think the injury is complicated. think it would be very hard to make that kind of move in the conference final where you know your

two top players were not at 100 percent, but that's going to be a conversation. It is because, you know, the avalanche have this championship window here, and they're squandering it. They're on the verge of becoming these one-cup wonders. They should have been the next, you know, Florida Panthers, the next Tampa Bay Lightning, the next Pittsburgh Penguins, the next Chicago Blackhawks, Los Angeles Kings. They were built for success and long-term success. And they have had that success in the regular season. But their inability to win in the playoffs, look at it.

last year, game seven against Dallas, they're up two nothing in the third period, and they give up a hat trick to Miko Renton of all guys in the third period to lose that game. They dominated that entire series and still somehow lost four games. This is a fragile team. And at some point, you have to look at the head coach. I think Jared Benner is a terrific coach. He's clearly a good coach. But this is the NHL. And if you're not winning championships, you tend to lose your job. This seems getting older. I mean, Kail McCarr is 28 years old. We still think of him as a very young player. McKinnon's in his 30s. Landis Goggs obviously getting up there. Nelson, Cadry, this is an old team and they're only getting older. They still have this championship

window. You have two of the five best players in the planet and you should be contending for Stanley Cups. And they are. But I don't know if firing Jared Bender makes this team better. I don't think there's a better coach out there. I don't know if Bruce Cassidy is the kind of coach that can work with the team like this. I don't know. You might not be allowed to talk to him. You might not be a lot to talk to him. That's true. I just don't know if there's another option. You're not, you can't really remake this team. Chris McFarland has dramatically remade this team over the last two years and he's not getting the results he wants. This is championship robust. And that tends to fall on the head coach, whether it should or not. And after 10 years, maybe the message is getting

stale. I don't know. Give me each of your predictions tonight for game four. Are we going to see game five? Vegas should have blow out. I tend to agree. I tend to agree. This could be a gentleman sweep where Colorado pulls this out and then loses at home, but I have very little faith that they have the fortitude to give a pushback. All right. Let's take a quick break right there. We'll come back and talk about Montreal, Carolina. All right, we're back.

And let's go now to the series that you guys have hopefully been able to enjoy a little. Are you able to watch these games on the off nights? Yeah. They're all at the same time as the Knicks. So my attention's been diverted. Let's put it that way. Well, you've missed a pretty good series. as is what I'll tell you.

Both of the last two have gone to overtime. Last night was filled Sunday night or Monday night was filled with a little bit of drama. So Montreal has a go-ahead goal. It gets called back on a correct. But one of those like offside calls that happens 30 seconds before the goal by, you know, it's discernible. It's like a full inch. But it doesn't. Are you in favor of a time limit there?

Like I'm, it's the quote unquote right call. I know some people say if it doesn't happen within 10 seconds, it shouldn't count. But I kind of agree. Like it sucks. and it's lame, but it's also the right call. I think the rule that we have is already correct on it, which is like if there's an exit, I don't want to hear about that offside if there was an exit and the puck cleared the zone. But if the puck's in, I think you have to honor it.

It's just one of those like kind of like, oh my gosh, like, you know, I did see it live. And that's kind of typically my barometer is like if I ever had the thought live, you know, then I, that's the one I want to overturn. And I saw it live and I was like, was he on? But there's that one. And then there was a right before Carolina. is OT winner. Montreal absolutely gets away with the too many men. Puck hits Lane Hudson mid-change. I was shocked that they did not call this too many men. And I thought in that moment, Montreal is going

to win this game and this is going to dominate our show on Tuesday. Carolina comes through for it and avoids that whole discourse. Consecutive OT wins for the Cains. I don't think it's been nearly as comfortable for them as I would have thought coming into this series. And yet here they are up to one. And Montreal is in a probably a particularly deflating spot after losing two OT games. in a row. Well, that's their whole post season, right? They're 5 and 0 in overtimes. Like they did not annihilate Ottawa in the first round. And they are, they're kind of getting by on the skin of their teeth. They're dominating the games, but they're still only getting by in the skin of their teeth because it's the same Carolina issues that

we've seen. The gold-tending, Freddie Anderson's looking shaky all of a sudden. And they don't have the big time closer, although Nikolai Ehlers starting to look like that guy and he was in game two. Carolina, it's been very interesting to watch them because they're so dominant. And they're still just. just almost stealing games at the end. Yeah, I mean, Jakub Dobish is the only reason these games have been close. It's Carolina is just firing shot after shot after shot at the net. And this big goalie who plays a foot outside of his crease is somehow getting a piece of

every single shot they made. It's, it has been fun. But when you look at the, the numbers in terms of just the shot volume, in terms of the shot attempts, the scoring chances, it is an absolute route by the Carolina Hurricanes. Jacob Dobish is the only reason these games have been competitive. And if Montreal does win this series, it's going to be basically on his shoulders. When I thought Montreal was ahead in this game with like eight minutes left, I can tell you, my first question for you guys today was going to be, can the Canadians keep getting away with this? Because they keep having this kind of formula where they're outshot by wide margins.

I think they only had like one shot on goal after this disallowed goal, which extended like into overtime deep, you know, probably close to 20 minutes. where they had only one shot on goal after that, and yet they very easily could have won this game. And the thing is, while there is that feeling of like they can't keep getting away with this, they seem, to your point, Laz about Vegas, they seem pretty comfortable in this kind of game. Yeah, I mean, they're not working. You have to accept that when you're playing the Carolina Hurricanes are going to out shoot you because they put the puck on net from anywhere and everywhere.

That's their entire strategy is just to funnel pucks towards the net and get those greasy goals, get those rebounds, get some action in front of the net. So it's not a big deal if you're getting outshot by Carolina. But if you're getting one shot, they had no shots on goal in all of overtime until about 20 minutes after the game ended. They were retroactively awarded a shot on goal. Like that's not good either. They can't even enter the zone because Carolina is so good at defending their own blue line. They're making life so difficult on Montreal.

And, you know, a lot of teams play that way, but nobody does it the way Carolina does. Nobody has as much experience and in big games against good teams. they just don't give you anything. And so when you do get a shot on goal, it damn well better be a high danger chance or you're just not going to beat them. Montreal does have the skill to, like part of the reason they're comfortable

in these types of games and that they can hang without getting many shots on goal is like they'll go five minutes of game action without touching the puck in Carolina's half of the ice. But then they get it over there for 15 seconds and man, is it spectacular. Oh, that Hudson Caulfield goal is a major. The given go, yeah. Yeah, the given go between Hudson and Caulfield, like, that shows you why, like, they only need 15 seconds of offensive zone time in order to make you pay. And they did it against Tampa. They've done it throughout the playoffs. It's just like, it's, it is the right phrase. Can they keep getting away with this? It's like it does not seem like a repeatable way of winning games, but they have done it. Like, they rely on Dobish. They keep the shots to the outside. The shot total may be high, but a lot of them are not particularly dangerous as long as it's not screened.

and so far Dobish has been able to see them. And then they really cash in on their, on their few amount of opportunities in the other end, because they are so skilled. Like they have so many skilled players on the ice that rarely do you, I feel like a lot of times you'll get like a two on one and you're like, that was the wrong players for that to happen for. Like those were not the guys you needed that odd man rush.

With Montreal, it seems like every time something like that happens, it's the guys you want. And that's because they have so many of those guys. And it's okay to be a counterpuncher. It's okay to be opportunistic and catch teams off guard. but you can't also be Homer Simpson against Drederick Tatum and just taking punch after punch after punch after punch for round after round after round.

You have to throw a punch more than once every six or seven minutes. It's just not realistic to keep up with the team when you're getting one or two real scoring chances of period. But I think Jesse's on the money here. This is, you know, it's the styles make fights, right? I mean, you've got the ultimate team that wants to hem you in and you have the opportunistic team that they want to score on the rush. And there's a lot of rush opportunities to be had

when most of the game's happening in your zone. That means by definition, your next chance is probably going to come on the rush. Montreal excels there. Well, that's what Vegas has been doing against Colorado, especially in the first game or two, is they were, you know, Colorado had the better of the play.

They were controlling the puck, but then Vegas would block a shot and fly back the other way in transition and score. And you can win that way. You can counter punch. You can kind of sit back and wait for your opportunities, but you can't just be hemmed in your own end forever. Eventually, Carolina's top guy,

Sveshnekov gets credit for the goal. night in overtime, that's a big deal for them because that top line of Aho, Svechnikoff, and Jarvis has just not been scoring, which is an annual perennial problem in Carolina. So if those guys get on track and they start, you know, finding the back of the net, then Carolina will be at full strength and then nobody's beating them. That being sad, I mean, we didn't have a show after game one of this series when the rust versus rest, uh, rest conversation was kind of, oh, look at, look at all the rust. We always do feel when we talk about this phenomenon that if there's going to be rust,

it's going to be off the hop. Carolina looks like Carolina got in the last two games. They do. I mean, you can say that from good or bad perspective, as to your point, and that they don't necessarily look like a completely different Carolina team than years past, but they at least look like the Carolina team we saw through the first part of the playoffs that went eight and no to start. Yeah, and they're not going up against the Florida Panthers right now. They're going up against a young team that's kind of in this situation for the first time. So, you know, the stars are aligning for Carolina to finally break through. We know what a great team they are. We know how deep they are.

We know how deep they are. We know how well and structured they play, how everyone is so bought into Rod Brindamore's system. But now we're seeing them playing a team that they are, you know, mentally stronger than an experience, more experienced than Florida was just a team that is a nightmare matchup for them.

Montreal's not. They can kind of have their way with Montreal. I will say the one thing that they do look a little different than the first two rounds is Freddie Anderson's not playing lights out. Like the first two rounds, they weren't giving up a ton, but when they did, Freddie Anderson was amazing. In this series, he has not been.

To me, it looks like he's guessing. It looks like he's not being patient and reading the play. It looks like he's guessing. And sometimes that'll make him look like a genius. Sometimes it looks bad. And he's had a few of those moments in this series where it looks bad. And I think they might be able to get past Montreal with him playing that way. They will not win the cup final with Freddie Anderson playing like that.

They will need the Freddie Anderson from the first and second round if they're going to win the Stanley Cup. And that's been the story for almost like a decade it feels like in Carolina is when, when will Freddie Anderson turned into a pumpkin. How many times do we talk about it? Well, it's usually in the conference final. And they might be good enough to get to the Stanley Cup final. But yeah, if they're going up against that Vegas team, they're going to need a better version of Freddie Anderson.

It's going to be too late to bring in Brandon Bussy. What's the threshold for the Bussy button, Jesse? I feel like at this point it's been too long. I feel like it's been a month since he's played a hockey game. I mean, maybe if you're getting blown out, you throw him in there to like just see what it looks like in a game where it's like, who cares if he gives up three more because we're already losing. Like maybe you just see what you've got back there.

I don't know if Carolina can play a game where they're getting blown out because they don't give up enough shots to give up like six goals. So I don't know if you'll ever get that. But to me, it's like, Brindamore has clearly chosen the horse he's going to ride here. And I think you're just going to have to ride that horse until it's over. Like Brandon Bussie is already an incredibly inexperienced goalie. He's never played in the playoffs. To throw him in in a Stanley Cup final after not having played for months seems like a

bad bet. So you might just be stuck with Freddie Anderson at this point and you just have to hope that he can regain the form that he had early in the playoffs. And I've had these conversations. I had it with, in Minnesota, you had the, you know, Walshstead versus Gustafin debate. And here in Colorado, it's, it's Blackwood and Wedgwood. And I talked to McKenzie Blackwood before this series about how difficult it is to just sit there. Because like during the regular season, even if you're the backup, you're playing every six, seven, eight, nine days. He said, like, you know, sitting for He sat for four weeks, basically. And it's hard.

You cannot duplicate the speed of even a regular season game in practice, let alone a playoff game. And the, you know, when you, Blackwood was interesting. You talked about how when you're in practice, you can work as hard as you want. But everything is so structured in practice. Everyone's doing drills, right? So everyone's shooting from the right places.

Everyone's taking the clean shot. They're not really being defended that much. You can't recreate the chaos of actual hockey, no matter how hard you try, because these teams aren't holding scrimages this late in the season. You're not really seeing real hockey. So to drop a guy in, no matter how bad things get for Freddie Anderson, I just don't see how you could drop a guy in after a month of not being in that chaos.

Probably too bold to say if you go up 3-1, you give him a game and roll the dice there. That's probably a little too cute by double. Yeah, I don't think Rod Brindamore is going that way. He is not that bold, a coach. Yeah, yeah. All right, well, let's take a break there. We'll come back. We're going to talk about the Conn's my favorites at this point.

The race is becoming pretty interesting here. I mean, as the field narrows, it comes into view. But I don't think it's as much of a slam dunk in any direction as we've seen in some past years. We'll be right back and talk about it. All right. We are back. And like I said before the break, it doesn't feel like a year where maybe with the exception of Montreal, like if Montreal goes all the way and wins is I think Dobish is probably the guy.

Maybe if Lane Hudson has a big enough cup final, he could get there. But I think with most of the other teams, in Colorado, it's at this point looking pretty bleak for them. But if it's Vegas, you guys. got a really good debate there. I think you go like three different ways with that one. Carolina, Taylor Hall is in that mix. Logan Stankevin, I think would still probably be my vote as good as Hall has been. But I think, you know, this is still a open conversation on the Con Smyth here.

It's not really like when we were already kind of banging the drum on Sam Bennett a year ago. Yeah. And it's interesting, especially for Carolina, this team is two wins away from the Stanley Cup final. They don't have a player in the top 10 in scoring in the NHL in the playoffs. And like in the playoffs, even if you don't have like a really high score, just by the virtue of playing more games than the other teams. Like you're usually going to end up with someone in the top 10. But it's been so spread out.

Taylor Hall is their is their top points guy. And he's 12th in the league. I think Vegas has like eight guys above Taylor Hall. It's pretty wild the way it's gone for Carolina. That is the most interesting one. If the hurricanes win, I like you say Stankov and Taylor Hall, like, Aho is one of their better players. Like Jacob Slate, if you're going to try to make a,

argument for a guy who doesn't score. Jacob Slavin has been amazing on the back end. And he's, and he has those, like, signature moments, those defensive plays where he's pulling the puck off the goal line. Like, I don't know. It's hard to make a cons myth argument for a guy with no points, but that might be the team where you could actually make that argument. I think that's a great point. Like this, this Carolina team is not going to have it. First of all, because they're hardly playing any games because they swept through the first two rounds. And, you know, that that's one reason. But they don't have a Dominus. Stankovin was so good early, but he's kind of like come back to Earth a little bit.

Taylor Hall has been probably their best player in this tournament, which is really, it's kind of cool to see a guy in the twilight of his career playing as well as he has. But I love that idea of like, this is the team where you could grant the cons smite to a guy who's not just the best score or the best goalie on the team. And Slavin, especially because he had that high profile game one against Montreal where he was on the ice for three goals against. And he kind of became part of the conversation because it was so shocking to see him play that poorly. And, you know, Rod Brindonboard's like, I've never seen that in eight years. This is not a guy you do that with. It's almost brought attention to how good he is. And, you know, with Four Nations last year, his profile was really raised in the Olympics this year.

It would be really cool to see a defensive defenseman win the Khan Smyth. And if any team is going to have that, it's going to be Carolina because they just don't have an obvious choice the way, you know, Vegas has two obvious candidates. And Colorado coming into this series, it would have been Nathan McKinnon. It would be really cool to see a guy like Slave and get that kind of recognition. And I'm not ready to give up on Brett Howden and Vegas. either. I think he's had an awesome playoffs there. Although being on Marner's line, I think it just directs things back toward Marner. But the other one, Jesse, and it's an uncomfortable one, right? Like Carter Hart, with everything that happened in the Hockey Canada trial, and then they were found

not guilty. But it still is a little uncomfortable to be sitting here talking about the Carter Hart-Kahn-Smith case right now. And yet, there is a very real case for it. Right. Well, the reason you can't ignore it is because it's the entire reason he's on the Vegas Golden Knights, right? Like, The Golden Knights wouldn't have Carter Hart without that trial that ended up, he ended up deciding, I want to start anew in my career. He didn't want to continue in Philadelphia. He was still under contract with the Flyers. So you do kind of have to acknowledge that because it's the only reason he's on this team. But then if you look at just the hockey side of things, to me, he is the clear favorite. I like Mitch Marner has been amazing.

Brett Howden is scoring every night. But to me, if I look at these games and the way it's gone, I don't think there's an argument that if, if not for Carter Hart, this is not a 3-0 series. I could argue it's 3-0 Colorado. I think he has outplayed Scott Wedgwood by that much. And I don't think Wedgwood's been terrible. Carter Hart's just been the best player on the ice pretty much every night for the Vegas Golden Knights. So yes, it is, it is a, it is a strange debate that we're going to have as this goes on.

and it looks like they're going to eventually make it to the cup final, and that conversation is going to become more real. But if you're just looking at the hockey, to me, Carter Hart, is the most valuable player on the Golden Knights at this point. And now remember, human beings are voting for this award, right? I think it's, I don't know, it used to be 15 people would get the vote, or they might have expanded it to 18 or something like that. It's usually like half the local beatwriters of the two teams that are in the final

and then half national guys that come in and, you know, and parachute in for the Stanley Cup final. And there's very often a significant disparity between what the locals beatwriters think and what the national people think, because especially if you are not in on all four series, it's heavily skewed. So, like, we have seen guys that have just gotten really hot around now at this stage of the conference final, halfway through the conference final and win the Khan Smite based on just a series and a half, because that's when a lot of people are seeing them or whereas the local people might vote for someone who's been more dominant throughout the playoffs. I don't know. I would never question the professionalism. The people who get the votes deserve the votes and will handle it professionally. If all things are equal, do you vote Mitch Marner so you don't have to vote for Carter Hart?

I'm not saying I would do that. I don't know what position you're in, but that's going to enter voters' minds, whether it's fair or not. It's only human beings making this vote. It's going to enter their minds. But I agree with Jesse, it's probably Carter Hart right now. Mitch Marner can easily still take it. He's been great. It's an amazing story.

It's objectively hilarious. as we've said, if Mitch Marner wins the consmite this first year out of Toronto. It's a great narrative and narrative does play when it comes to these votes. But right now, if the playoffs ended right this second, Carter Hart's probably winning the consmite and he deserves it. I think Marner does have a case on the merits. I mean, I respect, like, Hart's had plenty of games where he's been Vegas's best player, but so is Marner. I think Marner's had a lot of nights where he feels like, oh, this guy is willing Vegas right now. And he seems to have grown, whether it's the new surroundings, you know,

whether there was some over-narrativeization previously. I don't know, but I know that Mitch Marner looks like a star-star player. To me, he's looked like the best skater on the ice in enough games that it's absolutely still a case for him. Oh, he's 100% worthy, and he does it at both ends of the ice and he kills penalties. He does everything for Vegas. And just like he did everything in Toronto, he is just such a good all-around superstar. I mean, number one on my Selke ballot this year for a reason. What's pretty wild is like the narrative in Toronto was amazing regular season player. He gets

100 plus points every year and then it's not quite as good in the playoffs. It's been the exact opposite in Vegas. He didn't get 100 points. I thought he was very underwhelming. Like if you would ask me at the end of the regular season, what do you think about the Marner 12 million a year contract for the basically next billion years? I would have said, I don't think he's going to live up to that. Like he was not a $12 million player for the Golden Knights this year. Now, he wasn't bad, but that's a very high bar to clear. He didn't, he didn't have the shifts where you, you make 12 million, jump over the boards and do it yourself. Like, will this team to a goal? He had almost none of that in the regular season. And then you get to the playoffs where historically, narrative wise, he's not

supposed to do that. And he has done it over and over and over again. Max, it was the perfect way to say it is he's willing this team. He is driving a line. It's not like he's sitting on the wing of Jack Eichol and Mark Stone and he's just kind of like eating it up. No. He is the driver of that line. Brett Howden leads the league and goals in the playoffs because of Mitch Marner. He's assisted on almost every one of his goals. Howden has three short-handed goals. All three of them were basically backdoor tapins assisted by Mitch Marner. He is single-handedly turned Brett Howden into a elite goal score in these playoffs. He is absolutely driving the bus for Vegas. If you're just looking at the skaters, I think it's Marner by a wide margin. I know Howden's got the goals. But if Howden had a few big goals where he danced through the defense. and did it all himself, then I would maybe be a little more willing to say,

Howden belongs in that conversation. But because it's mostly just Marner fueling it, it's hard to argue Howden over Marner when it's, when it's Marner feeding him all the goals he gets. And then Marner's got this spectacular between the legs, breakaway goals on his own. Am I fair to say if it's Montreal? I mean, I don't want to just dismiss that and take it for granted,

but it's dobish if it's Montreal. It is. It is dobish. Yeah. I mean, he's been their best player. He's the only reason. You look at these shot lines. and it's like the game seven against Tampa Bay,

the only reason they won that game is because Jakob Dobish, and it's been that way. If they end up winning, it's going to be him. But just remember, if Montreal wins the Stanley Cup, they've got seven more wins ahead of them. Someone is going to play a role in that too. Cole Cawfield, Nick Suzuki. Nick Suzuki, his splits are weird.

He has been really bad in the losses and really good in the wins. There is a ton of time for another player to step up, and seven wins is a lot of hockey to come and take that narrative and seize it and win that consmithe. terms of narrative, if Jakub Dobish does win the Stanley Cup and win the Kahn Smythe, what a, like the greatest rookie goaltenders of all time you look through the history books. It's like Ken Dryden, Patrick Waugh, Jakob Dobish, throw him on the list. Jordan Biddington.

What is it with like Montreal Canadiens goalies? Like for whatever reason, if you're a rookie in Montreal and you somehow make it to the playoffs, like just sign them up for the consmithe. There you go. And we'll give Colorado a candidate. it as soon as they win their first game in the conference final. That's how that works on this show. Do you want to nominate one from the Avs last?

They have as many series wins as they're going to get. So I don't think we have to worry about them. No, let's nominate one. If they do it, who would be your vote? It would have been Nate. Yeah, it might be just in hindsight. It would have been Nathan McKinnon. But it's hard to imagine, like, even if they do make a miracle rally here,

that he's going to be able to be a big part of it. So you start looking around and there's not a lot of, really great options on this team because nobody's playing well in this series. So it's, you know, it's not like Brock Nelson or Gabe Landiscag or Marty Natchez has been invisible after a really pretty strong first couple of rounds. Nobody deserves it right now. Yeah. I mean, nobody based on like how this is going, it's hard to pick someone. But to me, it's like, Nathan McKinnon is hobbled. I'm going to be surprised if he's 100%. If they win this series, it will be because Kail McCar went berserk. Like it will be Kail McCar going super

human and winning this series. So to me, that's my pick. I don't think they're going to, but if they somehow do, that's the only way I see it happening. So, Kail McCar. And hey, just again, I've got to revisit this all the time. Miko Raton, not in the playoffs, Marty Natchezis, invisible, Logan Stankhoven, Con Smythe candidate. Eric Tulski Masterclass. I just thought of something. I haven't said my guy, McKenzie Blackwood's name in a while. What if they switch to him and they win four straight? What if, what is, yeah, what if there's eight weeks to go? Yeah, right. What if Bednar says, I don't know what to do.

Wedgwood, it hasn't been Wedgwood's fault, but let's just throw McKenzie Blackwood in there. Well, if he wins four straight and then wins the Cup final, then maybe it's maybe it's McKinsey Blackwood for Constrant. I think, I think that's worthy. I remember it in 2013 in the Western Conference final, it was game four of the Western Conference final. Patrick Kane sitting in his locker stall in the visitor's locker room at Staples Center, despondent, talking quietly, talking about how the night before he and his dad watched YouTube clips of previous playoff goals to, to quote, remind me that I can still be a good player. This is Patrick Kane talking. He won the consmite late a week and a half, two weeks later.

So a lot can change now. All right. Well, that's going to do it for us today. Thanks for listening to this episode of The Fletic Hockey Show. Everyone's favorite shawns are going to be joined by Frankie Carrado. On Wednesday, we'll talk to you soon.