The Athletic Hockey Show - How much NHL free agency money will be spent?

Episode Date: June 30, 2025

With one day to go before NHL Free Agency, Jesse Granger and Rob Rossi discuss the flurry of trades, signings and buyouts leading up to Free Agency. The guys along with the Athletic's Shayna Goldman take a closer look at the intriguing names including Mitch Marner, Brad Marchand, Aaron Ekblad, Brock Boeser, Nikolaj Ehlers, Jake Allen, Corey Perry, Vladislav Gavrikov and Ivan Provorov who look to cash in, with Free Agency beginning at 12 noon Eastern on July 1st. Hosts: Jesse Granger and Rob RossiWith: Shayna GoldmanExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Jeff Domet Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Welcome in, everybody, to another edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. I'm Jesse Granger in Las Vegas. I'm joined today by Rob Rossi in Pittsburgh, and we've got a pre-free agency show, and I must stress. We are recording this at 9 a.m. Pacific time, noon Eastern time on Monday, and there's a good chance things are going to happen by the time we end up recording this. So we're going to try to keep you up to date on all the stuff that's been happening. there's a lot already happening before free agency opens here in about 24 hours and we're going to go over all that. We're going to be joined by Shane and Goldman in the second segment. She's going to

come on and talk free agency, offer sheets, trades, all the stuff that's happening. And just like hockey players are tough to fight through injuries, we've got Rob battling through an upper body injury. How are you doing, Rob? Yeah, no, I'll, I'll say it. It's a concussion. I'm not like an NHL GM. I I was, I belonged to this great gym called F-45 that's been really good for me. I think a lot of people know. A few years ago, I missed a bunch of time with a neurological condition, and I haven't been able to get back to training the way I wanted to until really recently, like this spring.

So I joined this gym. But unfortunately, on Friday, I got a little too ambitious and picked up a weight that I shouldn't have. It was trying to do something of it over my head, and it slipped and went right off the old Noggins. So I'm either going to make a lot more sense today than I normally would, or none at all, which would probably be par for the course. But I was following everything Sunday. And Jesse, I, you know, I'm so old that these all blend together. But I don't remember, or I don't recall too many 48 hours of the 48 hours out of the July 1st date. being quite as busy as Sunday was. It kind of made the NHL seem like a lot of the other sports,

which is nice. But, you know, it gives me hope that we're going to see some action here beyond just signings. For sure. I agree with you. I don't remember this much action prior to free agency, kind of between the draft and free agency. We've seen some draft day trades before, but there's a lot going on. Out here in Vegas, the Golden Knights have been very busy. We saw John Gibson finally get traded, the trade we've been waiting for for what feels like years. We saw Colorado and Columbus make a trade. The Dallas Stars hired a coach. We've got, we're going to get to all that, but let's start with a little closer to home for me, the Vegas Golden Knights. They have been involved in a lot of things. They've officially announced the trade this morning. They sent

defenseman Nicholas Haig to Nashville in exchange for Colton Sison. who's basically Mr. Nashville. The guy played 590 games all for the Predators. He's going to play for a new team for the first time in his long NHL career coming to Vegas with a 50% salary retention by the Predators. And the Predators also sent Jeremy Loz on veteran defenseman to Vegas in that move. And there's a conditional pick that Vegas might have to send Nashville's way. It's either going to be a second or a third, depending on how far they go in the playoffs next year.

But the big news out of this deal was Nicholas Haig has been. playing big minutes for the Golden Knights. He's played top pair minutes. He mostly plays in the bottom two pairs, but he has played big minutes. And now he gets a big raise. He gets a four-year extension worth $5.5 million in Nashville. That's a price that the Golden Knights were probably not willing to pay, and that's why this trade ends up happening. What's your initial thoughts when you see Sizzins and Lozon going to Vegas and Haig going to Nashville with an extension? Well, as I always say, if you're a defenseman who's in his mid-20s, man, plan to go to free agency because they're either going to trade you and you're going to get to sign a big contract or you're going to hit the market

and sign a big contract. I mean, for the life of me, I don't understand why everybody in Canada and the United States doesn't teach their young children to want to be defensemen. They're just they're going to get paid this time of year. And look, I think you have to, look at all of these moves as what do they portend to. And you know, you would know this better than me, but it certainly seems like the Vegas Golden Knights are interested in what is probably the big fish, Mitch Marner. And look, there's been a lot of stuff out there. You know, I think a change in scenery is possibly going to unlock Mitch Marner in a way that will surprise his critics. And I think if he ends up in a situation like Vegas, that would be like perfect for him. And here's why I say that,

to me, it would be a little bit like when Phil Kessel came to Pittsburgh, which was the knock on Kessel wasn't that he didn't necessarily produce in the playoffs, but he couldn't be the guy. The knock on mourner is different. He doesn't produce as well in the playoffs. But I feel when you get into a culture that has won and you get around people that have produced, and you can, again, if this happens, But if you can end up in a franchise or with an organization where there is a structure there within the room and an understanding of how it works, I feel like Kessel did in Pittsburgh. Marner, if he ends up in Vegas, could really surprise people. People forget, Phil Kessel finished second in the Kahn-Smith vote for the Penguins in 2016. I thought it could have been Krista, should have been Krista Tang that year.

But the vote was very close between Latang-Krosby who won it and Kessel. and Kessel was their most consistent offensive point producer that year. And he played on the third line that year. And he much like we saw with Marchand this year with Florida, that third line was a big difference maker because they could have balanced scoring. When I think of the best Vegas teams, I don't think of them having just one guy. I think of them having a group that can kind of assault you.

And I think that would be great for martyr. How they get it done, well, I'll let you talk about that. Yeah. And for anyone who hasn't been on Twitter over the weekend, the reports you were referring to are, we've had a bunch of reports from Elliott Friedman, Darren Dregor, Pierre LeBron, Chris Johnston, Frank Saravali, everybody's been all over it. The Golden Knights were discussing a trade package that would send Nick Waugh, fourth-line center, to Toronto in exchange for Mitch Marner's rights.

That was a couple days ago. it seemed like it was imminent at the time. Now all of a sudden we haven't heard anything. So maybe that deal is not going to end up happening. But even if it doesn't end up happening, Marner will hit the open market tomorrow morning. And Vegas seems to be the front runners to sign him. It's that that Kessel comparison is a perfect one.

And I think that we have another great comparison for this situation in Vegas. I mean, Jack Eichol, when he was in Buffalo, he scored a bunch of goals. he was a great playmaker. There was no doubting the talent. But I remember when he came to Vegas, all I heard from everyone was he's not a winner. He does not how to play winning hockey. He comes to Vegas.

He gets in a veteran group where he isn't the guy. He was given the captaincy in Buffalo at a very young age. Maybe he wasn't ready for it. He comes in. It doesn't have to be the franchise savior, the way he was seen in Buffalo. He just has to be Jack Eichael. Just be a good center.

And he was, and like Kessel, finished second in Consmite voting. when the Golden Knights won the Stanley Cup that year, I could see a very similar trajectory for Mitch Marner in terms of not having to, all the pressure is not on you. Now, he's going to have some pressure, considering he's probably going to sign what is either the richest contract in the league,

or it's going to be right up there with it. With the cap going up now, as fast as it is, you have to imagine that pretty much every offseason someone's going to set the record for the highest salary we've seen in the NHL. So he's going to have a big contract. there are going to be expectations with that, whether he goes to Vegas or L.A. or wherever he ends up. But I agree with you that we could see a different side of Mitch Marner, a better side of Mitch Marner, especially in the playoffs where he's been criticized. I mean, this is a guy who he's got a complete game. I mean, I think a lot of people don't give him credit for his defensive game.

He received Selke vote seven years in a row. He was the finalist a couple years ago for the Selke. He is a complete player. And that's going to be the name everybody's watching. I mean, Vegas might trade for him. by the end of this podcast. We'll see. Well, I'll say this too, Jess, about Marner is he's got sulky votes for me, whether that's worth anything. I don't know. But I also think, I think Vegas is becoming and will become what Pittsburgh has become, which is a place that is a very attractive place to a type of player, because the hockey team matters immensely, but you get your privacy.

Yep. And I've talked to so many guys, so many Canadians who have played in Toronto specifically or Montreal or Vancouver. I've always asked like, why Pittsburgh? Why do you like it? You know, it's a assumption. Oh, Crosby, the team was owned by Lemieux, all that. The reality is, is they like it because they matter. The hockey team matters. They get really good support, but they're able to live a life. And the cost of living is low. and they kind of like that sort of atmosphere. And I think the fact, when you combine that, which I think exists in Vegas, I've talked to Mark Andre Fleury, who I'm pretty tight with about that,

his early days, that was very out of it. And also the fact that their ownership is just like, they just, they give a giant middle finger to the idea of ever taking a year off. They just go for it every year. And players want that. And I think when you get outside, that Toronto Crucible, it's a, it's almost like oxygen. So whoever the Vegas, my theory in the hockey free agency is usually like view, view signings with skepticism,

except, and Vegas is except. Like if a, if Vegas wants a player, I always go, oh, you know, that, well, that's probably going to work because their track record is really good. And I know that probably infuriates a lot of people. But I think as a fan, what can you want more than an ownership and the management that is just like, we're willing to do whatever it takes every year to give ourselves a chance to build a cup team? It'll be interesting. I'll be interested, too, on Tuesday, if a guy like Marner signs, because Bill Daly gave that whole speech about don't tamper, well, if you're not tampering,

guys shouldn't be signing at 1201. And also, look, we saw what the new CBA is going to include. And we also saw that the salary cap's going to go up substantially in so many years. If I'm a player of Marner's elk, I'm not doing a long-term deal anywhere, just because financially, I'm going to have another opportunity in a couple of years. It for sure makes sense for these top players to sign shorter deals, not only because of the cap going up, and obviously you're going to be worth more in a few years when probably TV rights go up and everything. It certainly feels like a positive direction for the league right now. But also, we've seen this in the NBA a lot.

It just gives the player a bigger voice. When a player's not locked in for seven or eight years, they can hold the team to the fire a bit. Their feet to the fire in free agency, hey, if you want to keep me in two years, you've got to keep trying to win. So I totally agree. And, yeah, Vegas has been super aggressive. Most of those moves have worked out. It's going to be interesting to see how they make it all fit with the cap. There's some uncertainty with Alex Petrangelo's future.

There have been some reports that maybe he may not be ready for the season or maybe not ready at all. And we asked general manager Kelly McCrimmon just a couple days ago and after the draft. And he said that they're still trying to seek clarity on Petrangelo's future. And there's some big decisions they got to make. It sounds like there's a potential surgery that he might have to have. And if he did, it would be a really long recovery. but we'll see that would obviously be a huge, huge impact to the team. I mean, he's been the workhorse number one defenseman for this team as long as he's been here.

I know a guy in Pittsburgh you could have. Yeah. It also opens up a bunch of cap space, though, and these are the whole of nights. So they're going to use that cap space quickly. Let's turn our attention to another move that a trade that kind of was to me the highlight of all the moves made around the draft during the draft. And that was, we've been waiting for John. John Gibson to get moved out of Anaheim forever. The Ducks finally did it.

They trade him to Detroit. I think everybody was expecting a different location. I think everybody was expecting Edmonton to be John Gibson's new team. But it's the Detroit Red Wings who send a veteran backup goalie, Peter Morazick, a second round pick and a fourth round pick to Anaheim to bring in John Gibson. Gibson, who's got two years left on his deal with about $6 million in cap hit. I'm very excited to see what John Gibson can do. The Red Wings have a million goalies. somebody sent me a meme.

It was a it was a Captain Crunch box, the oops all berries, but they replaced Captain Crunch with Steve Eiserman's face. And it says, oops, all bullies. I don't know what the Red Wings are due. They've got the two best goalie prospects in the world in Sebastian Kosa and Trey Augustine. They already had Talbot. They obviously sent Marazic to Anaheim, but now they bring in John Gibson, who is the

clear starter. He's going to be their number one this year, assuming he can stay healthy. The plan is for him to play a bunch of games. This is a team that's hungry to make the playoffs. It's been a long time since that long streak they had ended. They are really trying to take that next step. And I think bringing in a goalie and John Gibson, who's got a very high ceiling, is about as good of a move as you could make to try to help this young team take that next step.

Well, look, I'll always cede to you on goaltender evaluation. You know, Johnny's from the Western Pennsylvania area. and, you know, he may be the best Western Pennsylvania NHL product ever. But it's been a long time since John's played meaningful hockey. And, you know, I'm always fascinated to see how that's going to work out, especially a player of the goaltender position because, you know, to me, there should be real desperation on both sides. The Eizer plan hasn't worked.

They need to get into the playoffs. I don't think there's a better hockey city in America than Detroit, with all due respect to St. Paul, Minneapolis, and Boston and others. The R2 markets are great, Buffalo. But to me, to me, when the Red Wings are a factor, it's just a better league. It's a better hockey world. And John Gibson, I still think, can be an elite goaltender in this league. I think he's going to have to be an elite goaltender for them to get to where they want. and go because I still, like you said, I still have a lot of questions about what Steve Eisenman's

doing. And that has been a team that has just folded like, you know, whatever folds these days down the stretch the last two years. And to me, I know how you feel about this, Jesse. To me, when you're a team like Detroit, I'm not worried about what John Gibson's doing in November and December. It's March. That's to me is when you start to see the elite goalies in this league. sort of get into it and emphasize it. And that's where they've been bad and that's where he's going to have to be great. I totally agree. And to me, when I look at like a stylistic fit, so this is the way I view John Gibson at this

point in this career. He's he's kind of an old school goalie. He'll throw the half butterfly, the leg kicks, kind of a Marty Brodour kind of style. He does some, he uses some save selections that you don't see most goalies today making. He's also old school in that he plays. way out at the top of his crease. And I think that that's part of why his stats have been so bad. And Anaheim is because he plays so aggressively at the top of his crease,

he's really hard to beat on the initial shot. But it's easier to beat him with lateral passes. If you can pass the puck horizontally across the zone against John Gibson, you're going to have more space to shoot at because he plays so aggressively. He's got more area to, or he's got more distance to travel to get across. Now, put him behind a good defense. And to me, that's a perfect match. if he can trust that his defense isn't going to give up that lateral pass,

he can be confident with his heels at the top of the crease. There's nothing to shoot at. He's super athletic. So even at 31, and I think it feels like he's older than 31 because he's been in the league for a long, but 31 is not old for a goalie. Like that's like right in the middle of your prime. So I think he still has the athleticism to play that aggressive.

To me, what it's going to come down to is, like I just said, behind a great defense, behind a good defense, I think Gibson's a great fit. Is Detroit a great defense? I mean, they've got Mo Cider. They've got Ben Chirot back there. Like, there are the pieces for a good defense. Have they been a great defense? No. Can they be this year? That's going to be the answer. I think that this team is going to have to

play better defensively than they have the last two years. But if they do, they've got the type of goalie who can make a difference for you and make some game, game changing type of saves. That's, that's to me the way I think. Yeah. And I think the coaching change that happened in season, we're going to see more of a defensive, just based off that coach and the way he's done things elsewhere, I think they're going to have a training camp to get that system under his belt. I think Detroit will be a better defensive team. Honestly, the questions I'm going to have about Detroit are up front. Do they have enough guys that can be difference makers when it counts?

For sure. I hope they're in it. I totally agree. The NHL's a better league when Detroit's good. All right, let's take a break. And when we come back, we'll bring Shana Goldman on to talk everything free agency. All right, we're back and we're joined by Shana. Let's talk.

Let's start off talking about the Florida Panthers, because to me, the defending champs are one of the most interesting teams going into free agency. They obviously signed Sam Bennett to that massive extension. But they've got two other UFAs that everything we've heard so far is that the Panthers want to bring Bradmarshand and Aaron Eckblad back. They've only got 11 million in cap space. How do you view the Panthers going into free agency and maybe what do you expect to see tomorrow? They're always interesting because they kind of have this formula that's worked for them, right? Like they invested in their core players and everybody else is interchangeable.

And I think maybe they expanded their core more than we originally anticipated, right? Like Carter Hage is a part of the core. And Sam Bennett, they're not just that elite supporting cast. Like their core players in the contract show that. So it's fewer spaces to interchange, which isn't a bad thing. you just have to do it on a budget and do it well. We've seen them mess up before. Like last year they thought, okay,

Brandon Montor is gone. He's going to be replaced by Boquist. It didn't work. They go out and acquire Seth Drones. So I wonder how much they go into that strategy again. I'm thinking based on their cap situation, based on their strategy at Blad walks, and they can find another right-handed D.

Whether it's swinging big four, I don't know. And Eric Carlson could make sense to me because they could use that true, offensive defenseman that can be on PowerPlay 1. I don't think they have the perfect option there. I don't think Seth Jones is like the perfect Power Play quarterback. They could go for Rasb Sanderson and just short things up and his cap hit for this year, especially where pretension is going to be really low.

But they could also go out of left field and say, we're going to sign Nick Purvix, which no one's going to see coming and see if he could work in a minimized role on the right side. And if it doesn't, then they can flip him out too. I feel like that's going to be the spot we see get interchanged. and Marchand, if the deal can happen, like a one-year or two-year deal would make a lot of sense. Jay, it's interesting you mentioned Carlson because he's kind of a guy that I thought, boy, if there's a fit out there, it's a team like Florida, right? I think Pittsburgh's going to want a team to eat a lot more of the contract than maybe Florida would be willing. In Pittsburgh, we haven't seen Carlson excel at that particular role, the power play.

I think he's been actually really good in other areas. The power play has just been kind of like a quagmire. This year it was not awful. The year before it was a, I think I described it as a tire fire engulfing a sinkhole. So when you see a guy like Carlson, how would the culture of what the Panthers do and for what you've seen with players like that, how would it maybe help a guy like him? I feel like it's just going into a totally different environment for him, right? Because he goes and starts in Ottawa and obviously they were a playoff team while he was there,

but then you go to San Jose and like the direction quickly change. You go to Pittsburgh and the direction quickly changes. So you go to Florida and it's like this is an established winning culture where every player talks about it, right? Like it's infectious. You go there, everyone's bought in and it starts at ownership and trickles all the way down to that locker room in every single facet. This is a team committed to winning. So I feel like that could give someone like a new jump in their step, right? and then you factor in the on-ice play, the way that they play,

the way that they maximize their defensemen and can insulate people's flaws, it also would be a perfect situation in that regard. So I think in a lot of ways it can make a lot of sense. There's a few teams that stand out to me, and Florida's top of the list for him, a team like Carolina could make a lot of sense because they're good at maximizing them too. It's a little bit different, though, right?

Because it doesn't have, they don't have that same, we just won two cups or we've gone to the cup three times or we know we're going to do everything to win, versus the Keynes who can't get past round three. Even a team like Tampa, I feel like the vibes could be there, especially with Victor Headman's presence that you go, okay, this could click two. But with the Panthers, it's just this next level

that it feels like everyone else is striving to be. They're it. So I think that's the big difference. Totally agree. Another one of those teams that's striving to be it, Toronto. And I think that I'm fascinated by what the Leafs are going to do. We spent the whole first segment almost talking about what Mitch Marner could bring to Vegas, what a change of scenery could do for him.

But I'd like to look at the other side. What are the Toronto Maple Leafs going to do to fill? Because that's a 102 point player. He's been one of the best producers on the wing in the NHL for as long as he's been in Toronto. And all of a sudden, they don't have that. One of the core four is gone. They do have some cap space to work with, though. There are some, nobody of Marner's level, but you look around.

There's, I mean, Eilers. There's plenty of scorers in that Brock Bessers out there. What do you expect? Toronto to try to do to fill some of this offensive production that's walking out the door with Mitch Marner. Yeah, I would think they have to just target top forwards, right? Like, they needed more scoring when they had Mitch Marner in the fold. That's what crushed them over the years. And I feel like we've seen them go, okay, it's the goaltending guess that's part of the problem. Okay, the defense needs to be better. Okay, part of the problem. Oh, they need to be tougher. They need to

do this. And they go in every other direction instead of just addressing the fact that they're not scoring enough goals and everyone looks at it and says, well, the core four should do it. They should, but they're not. So now you need guys around them, right? Because that's the big difference between Florida and Toronto this postseason is that when the top line's not scoring Brad Marshand's life, you know, that line is making life hell for the Leafs. While the Leafs, on the other hand, you know, they're getting nothing from their bottom six.

It's way different. So you already are in that position where you need it. Now you need a Marna replacement. I would think they have to be aggressive and try to swing being big at players like healers out there like any other top free agents, but there aren't a ton. So how creative are they going to get? You know, like we have to look at teams that maybe have players they're willing to move

those change of scenery guys or those restrictive free agents they could offer sheet, which is going to be tough with the, you know, pick situation too. But it just feels like they already had this need that now they're setting themselves so much further back. And I get it, Marner doesn't show up in the playoffs enough for them, right? Like it doesn't matter what he did. It matters what he did those last couple games. And you could look at it and say it just wasn't enough and it's not reliable enough. So how do you find that?

without kind of taking the wrong takeaway here, right? Because it feels like they could fall into that hole and say, well, we need someone that's a confirmed 16 game player. Great, Andre Palat used to be that, but it doesn't mean he's going to help you get there. And also now you're relying on someone to be the 16 game player. What if they're not? Now you're in a bigger pickle.

So I just don't think their situation's easy. And I think they need to really look at this and think critically about guys who can put up points and can score more. And whether they can keep up and compliment guys like Neelander and Matthews is part of it. But also can they drive a third line? like that's going to be a huge thing here. You know, Shana, you mentioned something that I've been thinking, well, you kind of hit on something that I think,

and I'm curious of your thoughts about this before I asked my question about the two teams I wanted to ask you about. I think the Maple Leafs are making a big mistake. I really do. I think we saw, to me, they were the closest team to taking out these Panthers. I think if you show a little patience here and stay the course, and also, yeah, maybe it doesn't show up in the playoffs, but you've got to make the playoffs.

and you don't just take a hundred point guy out of your lineup, and especially in that division, and end up in the playoffs. So you're allowed to comment on that. I'd love to hear what you have to say. There's two teams that I'm fascinated by this offseason, and not because they came close, but because I don't know what they do. The Edmonton Oilers and Dallas stars.

I think I can make an argument that they're the two best teams in the Western Conference along with Vegas on paper. I also don't know what the hell. heck they do to get over the hump. Yeah. Well, neither one of them has it easy, right? And I think you group them all together, right, and go bigger and add the leaves into that mix. And I think you have three teams that are facing a little bit of a problem, especially as everybody around them is going to keep trying to get better, right? And I think at this point, the oily strengths and weaknesses are so well known that they have to dig their way out of that

because I think everyone can kind of scout and try to address for that, like address what goes short with Edmonton and figure out how to beat them that way, and the same goes with Dallas. With Dallas, the big thing here is going to be not trading Jason Robertson. I know there are critics of his game in the postseason, too. I think you sometimes have to let a guy cook. I feel like it's a little bit different than Mariner here. So if I'm the Leafs and you see Robertson's available, like you should jump at him. I don't care what they say about his game in the playoffs.

I thought he was pretty damn good this year when he was coming off an injury. And I think the same goes for a guy like Eilers, where he had that playoff pedigree issue. and he was really big for the Jets and he came back from injury. So step one for the stars, don't get rid of him. Clear out cap the other way. Get rid of the Lubushkins and the Dumbah contracts and find a way if you have to package up an asset

and I know they don't have a ton of them. But I don't see any benefit to moving out Robertson for assets that will help the team get better because you're going to spend your time trying to replace the player you just got rid of, right? I think the Jamie Ben contract element is one that I didn't love because I think his game really rebounded, and then we saw it kind of crash back down to Earth this year,

and I think the last couple post seasons, he's been part of the problem, not the solution. I'm not putting it solely on his shoulders, but I do wonder if anybody else is ever going to carve out a leadership role to help this team push further than they've gone, and maybe the coaching change is going to be enough, right? Because, you know, DeBore, I think, faulted the wrong elements, didn't fix the problems that were apparent in round one and round two,

and they got to round three. Oh, wow, it came to her head for the second straight year. Who knew? So I'm very curious if anyone else is going to be able to step up in a different way because I don't think Ben is that anymore. So I'm curious how they go about that. I just think that they need to just get rid of the bad money. I know it sounds like, okay, Captain obvious,

but like it's very important here. It's a Cap world. And they kind of showed don't nickel and dime guys like ranting in, but then you have to make those really smart decisions around it. For a team like Edmonton, good luck. I mean, you need a goalie, right? We can't avoid it. I thought, okay, if they address everything else besides goaltending,

they'll be fine this year. And I don't think they address that forward group enough at the deadline. I like the addition of Jake Walman. I'm fine with their defense, to be honest. But it's getting those secondary scores. Moving out Keynes contract is a good start. I think Caponin's fine to extend. But it's finding guys to replace what they lost.

And I don't know, Dylan Holloway. Like, ego, it's biting you. I think that they need young, town. too. I don't know how much they can just go for some random bargain bin option for agency when the class isn't very deep. So they're going to have to get really creative here to look at players that can keep up and compliment guys like dry saddle because I think McDavid's line, Newton Hopkins and Hyman, you have a good thing. Don't touch it. It's fixing the dry saddle line a little bit and then getting more third liners in there. But at the end of the day,

you also have to figure out the goaltending situation. Here Gibson was a good option. I'm kind of curious about a guy like Merse-Lakins maybe? Like, could that work somehow with some cap retention? Because it does feel like they can, they keep waiting too long. And then they can't get their, get out of their own way in that. My vote is not for Merz-Likins. Let's just get that out there. I totally agree with you when you were talking about Dallas and how to clear the cap

space. I could not agree with you more in terms of moving out the good players is not the answer. Like, sometimes you have to just eat it and lose a trade. Like, I think the Golden Knights have done this maybe better than anyone in terms of we will trade a player with, with a big name that we don't think is going to help us for literally nothing. We'll even give you something to take this guy. They traded Max Patcheretti for nothing. You lose the trade. Like public perception is you've lost the trade, but you're clearing cap space so you can keep you. I mean, they traded Mark Andre Flurry coming off of a Vezna season for nothing. McHackereyke-Hackerman was the.

the only guy who came back. And they didn't even send them to Vegas. They were like, you know what? Just stay in Chicago. Sometimes you have to just eat it and lose a trade in order to open up your cap space so that you can keep your players you want. I totally agree. I think Dallas could take a page out of that book from the Golden Knights in terms of making space without losing guys that are impacting. Another thing you mentioned was around Toronto was the offer sheets.

And that was what I wanted to ask you about today. It's been the topic that everyone loves talking about ever since the Blues. it last year finally, it seemed like, oh, there's a breakthrough. Are these GMs finally going to go at each other with these offer sheets? Do you expect that to actually happen or have we just type this up all year for absolutely no reason? I think it's tough because now general managers are actually like, you know what, maybe we should handle a restricted free agents early. And I think that's going to be a big win for the RFAs because I like the idea that an offer sheet can buy a player more freedom than they have as an RFA, right?

But so often I feel like they're kind of afterthoughts. Like, let's figure out our cap situation with the, you know, the big name free agents. And it's like, that's nice. But at the end of the day, most elite players don't make it to free agency and just look at this class to see that. And secondly, like, if you're finding someone a free agent, that should be your complimentary piece that complete your team and not someone you're necessarily building around unless elite players, which, again, it doesn't happen. So the restricted free agents are your prime players. They're generally in their peak years and the best you have to come. and you should be investing in them and wanting to prioritize them.

If the threat of an offer sheet is going to have that change, I think that's a big win because guys like Nyes, right? Like if you're the Leafs and you want to lock them up and avoid anything because you know martyrs walking. So you don't want it that you either get trapped into paying him a contract, you don't want to pay for or risk losing him when now you'd be down two top six wingers. You know, you have leverage if you're not for a change. And you can come to a nice contract.

I think getting it to six years versus eight is a nice win for him in that regard. So maybe it's going to help restrictive free agents build better contracts and not feel the same pressure that general managers generally assert on them. And I think that could be a good thing. I don't know how many we're actually going to see, though, because it feels like in some cases we're seeing what maybe the oilers and blues had. It was two on the same team, right? Two big ones. So if you attack both, you have a better chance of getting one. Or if you see the one to pressure versus like it opens the door to it.

So Buffalo ended that problem. Right now it's just Byrum. They already moved to Paterka. So the Rangers are going to be the team. I think that's going to get a little attention with Will Coolly and Kandre Miller. And I have a feeling that situation, they can't let linger either because you don't want to be in that position, right? So you have to prioritize one or the other. And then if you don't have both, maybe teams won't do it as much because, say, an offer sheet doesn't work out,

then you feel like you just soured relations for nothing. Would I like to see general managers do it and forget the relations? Yes, because you're not here to make friends. but realistically we know how it works in this league. What they need to do is go to all virtual GM meetings because seriously, I think you'd see more offer sheets because they get too chummy. They like to get together two or three times a year

and just drink and go to the bar and watch hockey games during those fake meetings where they allegedly decide stuff. And we shouldn't let them decide things anyway because the despicable draft that we just witnessed was all because the GMs thought they could save money. So you mentioned a team, Chana, and, you know, they're nearish where you're at, the New York Rangers.

Look, I covered Mike Sullivan a long time. I think he's a wonderful coach. I don't think the penguin struggles were on him. But I also think he went to a mess. And I don't know what Chris Jury is doing. Like, I don't see a team that is really built to win right now because of the way some of their contracts are set up with the way some of their players. are aging. I don't necessarily have confidence they have a plan for some of the like restricted free agents you're talking about. And they've got this exceptional coach and this exceptional goalie.

And I'm kind of going like, are we, is this just like Hank Lungfist all over again? Where like I feel good about the coach and I feel good about the goalie, but it's like everything else. And I'm like, I don't, I don't know, talk some sense into me because like I, I worry for Sally in his heart. I really do. Well, you're right to worry because the roster isn't perfect. think what's going to hurt the Rangers, I think they know what they want to do. I think they know the agents they want to go after. I think they know the players they want to move. But I don't know if there's going to be a stubbornness that stops them from clearing cap, right?

Because I think if you look at that roster right now and you look at how that defense performed last year, and a lot of it, I'm going to put on coaching. I don't know what system Phil Housley ran. I do not think you made any adjustments to fix the problems. And I think that they let the problems bleed for as long as they did because they knew they wanted to try to target Mike Sullivan at the end of the year instead of making a change and season and adding to the instability, right? So even if you put all that behind you, you look at it and say, who are you going to move out?

And I think their names, like maybe they do move on from Kandra Miller, right? But there's not a ton of leverage in the market right now. So do you hold on to a player too long to avoid losing him for nothing? And I think in his case, it would make more sense because that's someone who, at his best, should have a ton of value in this league, right? He has all the raw skills to be this really great top four defensemen. I think he's super skilled. And with the right leadership, I think he can get there.

And I do wonder if maybe that's there in New York right now. But then you look at a name like Carson Sussi. And you think about what the Rangers just spent to add him at the deadline. And I wonder if the stubbornness around that is what's going to stop them from just doing what they need to do, which is about cap. Right. And if they say, well, we need to get back what we just moved out to replenish an asset we invested in, I think it's the wrong way to look at it at the end of the day. Because, yes, yes, it's a weak to defense market. And yes, you know, we're going to see a lot more trades to fill needs. we might have seen in just signings based on who's actually available, you can't hang your hat on

that at the end of the day and you can't let that stop you. So if you look at someone and go, well, they're not a fit, then you need to do something proactively for it, even if you have to like just like you were saying, in Vegas's case, you just sometimes have to eat it. So that's where I'm kind of getting hung up because I do see some potential there. And I'm biased because I'm closer to it and I watch this team a lot. And I think that a change of coaching will do a lot for this roster. but there's definitely areas of need. Like they need another top nine winger. There's no doubt about it.

They need a better defense right now. So you have to be willing to just cut bait on certain players like they did with, you know, Chris Kreider, you're not getting much back for him. Like you're accepting it in that way, then you need to do the same with these like secondary pieces that are never going to generate much interest on the market. As someone who watches,

I probably watch the Rangers more than every team in the league other than the Golden Knights. Igor Shisterkin is the center piece. of my dynasty fantasy team and he's just my favorite goalie to watch. And Rob's given me like flashbacks talking about Hank Lundkwis and comparing that. I really, really hope that's not how his career goes and how he's remembered. This has been awesome. Thanks so much, Shane.

I got one question before we let her go. Shana, who's the cup jersey? You always got the best jerseys. This, we have Minnesota North Stars. I heard this one and I like cut it. Yeah, I have like every, every like hockey shirt I wear is just some like random ancient one that I'll find. Yeah, I recognize that from like the 90s because I'm like, I'm pretty sure I saw those in the early 90s playoffs.

So whatever that material's made up, I need to buy some. Yes, it really is. I'm wondering the same thing the whole time too. I was like, yellow and green, North Stars. North Stars, yep. I like have like a rotation of really old ones and you have to find out and make sure like they're okay and they don't like the rotten them that they fall apart. and this one is like perfection still. Great.

Awesome. You're the best, Shana. Thank you. Best, thanks. All right. We'll come back and we'll talk about some of these changes to the CBA, which ones Rob likes and which ones Rob hates. All right, Rob.

So it's been a while since we've got the details, at least the basics, the bones of the new CBA and there's a bunch of stuff out there. I'm going to throw a couple topics out that are changing, a couple things that are changing in the CBA. You choose which one you want to discuss. We've got an 84 game schedule coming. They closed a bunch of loopholes like the playoff salary cap, LTIR changes, salary retention changes. The paper contracts are gone.

And we're making changes to the eBug position where we're going to have a super. Let's save that for last because that's the most interesting you to start with. Okay. So can we just agree? I understand why they're playing 84 games. it's too many. It just is. And the league should be 72. I understand there's revenue. It's a, it's a gate revenue league. It would be better for the product. It would be better for the players. It would be better for everything. If it was a 72 game season that started in September and the

Stanley Cup final was ending in Memorial Day weekend, that would just be the best. That would be like, I grew up with that. So I also admit that I'm old. So I'm going to take that off the table and just say, I think the best thing they've done, aside from just not having a work stoppage, and I'm old enough to have just known that that was just built into your life. And I do wonder what the players are really getting here. But I think the best thing they've done from a competitive standpoint is finally address this LTIR issue and this idea that you essentially, have a salary cap that doesn't have to go to effect in the playoffs. Here's the thing. I've never been able to explain that to somebody when they've asked me.

I always go like, well, what, you know, if somebody that's like a novice and they ask me something and they, why doesn't they, why doesn't that rule for the regular season and not for the, I don't know. I don't know, because they just decided it wouldn't be. And I think you needed equity there. And I don't know that we've got equity, but we've got a lot closer to it. So I liked seeing that. I totally agree.

And I think that honestly, so they changed it to where there's going to be a, for anyone who hasn't read it, there's going to be something of a salary cap during the playoffs. And it's going to be your 20-man roster that you ice every night has got to be under it. They haven't given us the exact details. But it's going to be something along those lines where you can't just have a guy set on LTIR like Kucharov did for Tampa, like Mark Stone did for Vegas, and then come in and now you're way over the cap and you ice this team that. above what the NHL has set the standard for all season long. So they're going to do that.

They're also going to, they're changing to where teams can't do the double salary retention during the deadline where one team retains, you trade him to another team, a third, a broker team who retains even more and then you trade him. They're getting rid of that by making you keep a player for a certain amount of days during the regular season before you can retain his salary.

They're also, and I love this, they're eliminating the AHL paper transactions where these teams are just constantly sending these players up and down, up and down, up and down. They're not actually getting on a plane. They're not actually flying. They're only doing it to a crew salary cap space. And to me, what all of these things as a whole do is it puts more of the focus on the hockey. And I cover a team that uses all these loopholes.

And look, I'm not criticizing the Golden Knights for using them. The rules are there. They're working within the rules to give themselves the best competitive advantage they can. This is a tough league to win in. And every edge you can get, I don't blame anyone for taking. But I do think that it kind of ruins the analysis. We become mathematicians. I become a lawyer trying to figure out what all these moves the Golden Knights are doing,

or not just the Golden Knights, but all the competitive teams. And the fans are wondering, why did they send this guy? Oh, it's just a paper transaction in order to get a couple thousand dollars in cap space the deadline they're going to use. By eliminating all these loopholes. and to me it's going to put the focus back on the hockey. We're going to stop talking so much about the math around these cap hits and around the deadline. We're going to talk more about how does this player fit into this lineup?

What does this player bring to this team and less about the cap hits? I think it's good for the league to make things simpler because I think it has gotten a little too complex when it comes to the financials. And us, we're constantly trying to explain it because all the fans, want to know why they're making these moves, and it's almost always a math equation. Yeah, I agree. I look at it very simply. Anything that lets us go back to making hockey trades and talking about them as hockey trades,

let's not overcook this. That's what the fans care about. I understand there's an element of fan that digs really into the business end of it. But look, that's still going to be there. But when you can start making contracts and your salary system, simpler and and avoid what I was fearful of. I feared we were headed towards the NHL becoming like the NBA, a league that I love. But NBA transactions are meaningless. Guys get traded and there's like a cap exception and then a guy gets released as soon as he's traded and he gets a sign with every kid.

And I'm like, I never know what to think. So simpler is better. And I just, I love hockey trades. I grew up and people made hockey trades. I wish they had made the trade deadline a little bit of earlier. I understand why they're hesitant to do that. I wish they had done that. But I think what they've done with this new CBA is, I don't think we're going to just see hockey trades at the deadline and the three weeks before it. I think because we know now that there's going to be these new rules in the playoffs, Jess, I think we're going to see more hockey trades in season. And I hope that's the case. I will say this, the only maybe negative impact that all these moves could have is it could make the deadline less exciting because we're talking about you're taking

a lot of the flexibility away from these contending teams because everything I just mentioned, the paper transactions, that's all to add cap space to use the deadline. The double salary retention allows these contending teams with no cap space to get these impact players for little to no cap hit. The loophole of bringing players back in the playoffs to go above the salary cap, all of these things, have allowed contenders with no cap space to make more moves. So by removing them all, I wonder, I'm curious if the deadline is not as exciting because these teams just don't have the flexibility to make these moves now. Yeah, but I think the dirty secret that nobody wants to admit because our jobs depend on

creating excitement around the deadline is it hasn't really been that exciting to begin with for a long time. Like this one was. I cover the golden nights. Well, right, but for most teams, it's not, you know? And it's like, yeah, I think the other one you mentioned, you know, this eBug thing fascinates me because I think now you've added something where it can be a very much a real cap circumvention if you can find a guy that is like, you know, it's a real benefit if you can find the best ebug in the business and just have them on your organization. Yeah, it is. And we're still waiting to see the details on who's going to be eligible because like the way it currently works is you can't have anyone who's ever played professional hockey.

That's why these ebugs, that's why we get the stories we get of the Zamboni driver or the car insurance salesman gets to play a game because there is a rule in that when you're picking an ebug, he can't have ever played any level of professional hockey. Now, now that it's going to be a paid position that is a full-time position on the team that travels with the team, maybe they change that and we see guys that are retired. I know everybody's joked about Mark Andre Fleury being the e-bug for Minnesota since he's hanging around. It will definitely be interesting. I'd love to see like Roberto Luongo should for sure be the Panthers. Every team hires an ex-goldender. Is there a G.m now? Exactly.

Yes. So it's going to be interesting to see. I will. I'm currently working on a story on this and I'm going to talk to some e-bugs. David Ayers obviously is the most famous one. He's the only one with a victory on his belt, but also some other guys that have served as e-bugs around the league. And it will kind of ruin that magical story.

of the normal guy getting thrown in there. That's been something fun. The fans absolutely love it. It will take that away. But I think that as much as I love those stories, it's ridiculous. Like for a league that is at the level the NHL is, the best league of this sport in the world

should not be having amateurs playing the most, the position that impacts the game more than any position on the ice. We can't have the Zamboni driver doing it. As much fun as it is, it's ridiculous. I don't know what is more ridiculous. the NHL having gone so long with the e-bug or that I still see baseball games every year where a position player has to go in and pitch because they can't just say it. Last thing, they did add something that I think is really important, but it's not going to get a lot of attention, Jesse.

I just think it was vital for the NHL to put the clamp down here. I think the fact that players are going to be mandated to wear the neck gear, I think that sends an incredible message. to all players growing up. I'm dealing with a concussion. This is a league that at one point had the mandate helmets, had the mandate face protection. We can never have a situation like we saw a few years ago in Europe with Adam Johnson. I know players aren't going to love this.

But you know what? It's just a little bit of discomfort for something that significantly makes the game safer. And more importantly, I do feel that the one area of these professionals all have an obligation. is to set the right example for the players that are playing at the youth level. And these kids are going to think it's a lot cooler to wear that now. Totally agree. Yep. And for those listening that haven't heard the details, it's going to be grandfathered. So every player who has played a game prior to the 20, 26, 27th season, it's not going to be mandatory. But if you haven't made your debut before that year, you will be

required to wear the cut resistant neck guards. I agree with you. Right now, look, I get it. I play hockey. It does look dumb. The turtlenecks look dumb, but that's only because we're not used to him. At one point, helmets look dumb. Now you look at a hockey player with a helmet on what's he look like. He looks like a hockey player. I don't think it'll take that long for the turtleneck with the cut resistant. I don't think it'll take that long for that to just be what you picture in your head when you think of a hockey player. That's part of the hockey player's equipment. I also hate that argument that the turtlenecks look dumb, Jesse, because every time a player would tell me that in Pittsburgh, I'd pull up a picture of Wayne Gretzky or Mariel and you playing with a

turtleneck. I'm like, it's good enough for them. Yeah, yeah. And those are real turtlenecks, like the foldover, like. Not the underarmor, uh, wicking material. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Awesome. Well, this has, this has been fun.

I appreciate you, uh, coming on and talking free agency and, and, uh, CBA with me, Rob. All right. I'm going to go, uh, I won't remember anything and that's probably the way I have it. Everybody check out the athletic and, uh, we'll all be glued. And as I always tell people this time of year, there's two times a year. check on Twitter and make sure the insider you're following is actually Pierre LeBron. Yeah, I'm sure there are a bunch of fake ones out there with fake letters that they've made look like his actual name.

Yeah, we're going to have, like Rob said, we're going to have a ton of free agency coverage on the site and on the podcast. Max and Laz will be back tomorrow. They're going to wrap up day one of free agency tomorrow afternoon. Sean Gentile, Down Goes Brown, and Frankie Corrado are back on Wednesday. Thanks for listening to The Athletic Hockey Show. I'm Jesse. Rob, have a good day.