The Athletic Hockey Show - How the NHL trade deadline changed the balance of power in the league

Episode Date: March 12, 2025

Jesse Granger and Frankie Corrado take a look at who the Stanley Cup favorites are, after the NHL trade deadline changed the balance of power in the NHL. The guys dissect the powerhouse teams, headlined by the Panthers, Stars and Oilers, and contenders in Colorado, Winnipeg, Carolina, Toronto, Tampa and Washington. Plus the guys take a deeper look into Aaron Ekblad's suspension for using performance enhancing drugs, and the Ottawa Senators pulling away from the rest of the Eastern Conference wild card contenders.Host: Jesse GrangerWith: Frankie CorradoExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Jeff Domet Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Hey, everybody. Welcome to another Wednesday edition of The Athletic Hockey Show. This episode is presented by E-Trade for Morgan Stanley. McIndo and Gentile are away this week. I'm Jesse Granger filling in alongside Frankie Carrado from TSN. How's it going, Frankie? What's going on, man?

I hear, like, there's so many goalie guys in the industry, and you are one of the goalie guys. And so, you know, I've heard about you, read your stuff. Nice to finally talk to you. I'm looking forward to it today, buddy. Thanks. Yeah, I'm one of the goalie guys that I'm a lot better at talking about goalies than I am at stopping pucks themselves. But yeah, yeah, played goalie my whole life. Never at a really high level.

But now I get to talk to the best in the world. It's a lot of fun. It's a beat that obviously I've covered the Golden Knights for a while. But goalies are my passion. It's a beat that kind of just happened organically. And now I get to spend my time hanging around some of the best goalie coaches and best goalies and picking their brains. It's a lot of fun. I love it. It just, it seems like this industry, for some reason, so many goalies take to it.

I know at TSN, we have noodles, we have Wexie, we have Marty B. Ron. I'll throw Gino Reda because he's always like the token emergency backup for any situation. And like there's just for some reason, I wonder if it's the position and the fact that you're watching everything from the angle and the view that you watch at, whether you're in the net. or on the bench, like you're always kind of watching with this keen eye. And a lot of the goalies that I played with, like so astute about the game because they're reading everything. I don't think we give goalies enough credit for like how well they read the game, how smart they can be. So yeah, I guess I guess that's why there's so many goalie guys that

take to covering hockey, talking about hockey, writing about hockey when it's all said and done. I think you make a great point about like the angle they view the ice from. Like they see everything happening in front of them. They're not in the middle of it the way a skater is. I also think that it's like when you're a goalie, like every mistake is game over. Like you're not afforded any mistakes. So I just think the amount of preparation that those guys do maybe is a little more just because it's like, yeah, like there's no one to cover up your mistakes. Every single one of them is like game ending mistakes.

So I do think that like maybe their preparation is a little more meticulous, a little more focused. You look at a goal. I mean, you know better than anyone like. was was the goalie joking around with everybody in the dressing room when you were when you were in there or they never never and you know what it it makes sense to me now like why goalies were so happy when you would block a shot in front of them like especially the one it feels like you know the one that you lay out you go down on one knee that one hits you right in the pants um once the puck gets frozen or there's a whistle so many goalies like add a boy like they give you the tap and um the one where you you stick your stick out and someone's coming down the wing and it gets deflected out of play. You would kind of skate past the net. You get the out of boy again. So I, you know, I get it.

Getting a little bit of help from your D-Men seems to go a long way with the goalies. And, you know, I guess that's the only help that you really get outside of what you do for yourself. Right. Exactly. Every once in a while, someone bails them out. Yeah. Cool. Well, it's, we got a really fun lineup today of topics. We're going to talk about Brad Marshand.

He's finally on the ice in Florida. We're going to talk about how the deadline changed the balance of power in the NHL, looking at a Dom Lechision piece, really, really nice piece he wrote. Then we're going to get into Aaron Eckblad's 20-game suspension for taking performance-enhancing drugs, and we're going to wrap it up with the red hot Ottawa senators. They have, I think, points in six straight, and they're into playoff position. They're playing really well. But we're going to start with Brad Marchand.

It's probably the biggest topic in the NHL right now. he had a press conference in Florida the other day. Hasn't played for the Panthers yet, but we're seeing him on the ice for practice. How excited are you to see Brad Marchand on what is now looking like the most star-studded team in the NHL? Very excited to say the least. And like, if you were thinking about this before it happened and you said, like, where would Brad Marchand be a nice fit?

And you looked at the standings and you saw the Florida Panthers sitting there. I think part like part of, I did that. And part of me said, well, there's no way. Like, he can't go there. It's too perfect. It's too tailor made for him. And then watching him not necessarily skate in the Panthers gear, but do that press conference with the hat and like the, the gitch on, my first thought was, man, AI is getting

really good. Like, it's getting dangerously good now because it just, it looks so weird, so foreign. You know, but to go back to the fit, like, he's going to walk. into that room and he's going to, well, he already has walked in, but he's going to play a game there and it's just going to be like riding a bike where it was whatever you thought the Bruins were when they were at their best, when they were nasty and in your face and big bad brewing hockey, like that has gone south and he has followed that now to the Panthers. And he's got some guys that are just as much of ringleaders with that as he is. And he has been. And so that's going to be,

that's going to be difficult because he can also play. Like he's not just a fourth liner that's out there killing time, having to start scrums and get into stuff after the whistle. Like he's a menace. He's a menace because he can still play and he still does that, you know, extracurricular stuff at such a high level and you're adding it with some of the best. Sam Bennett, Matthew Cichuk. Like it is, it is going to be quite a scene watching those guys play in the playoffs.

And I hope we get to see them play on a line at some. some point. But even if they don't, think about the advantage the Panthers are going to have to be able to spread that out evenly if they want to in their lineup and not give you any reprieve in a game. I mean, that's, that's something that you're thinking about as the opposition before the game saying like, this is going to be tough, like more than tough. And we're going to have to find a way to push through all the silliness that goes on with these guys. For sure. We don't know where they're going to line up. I was. looking at the way Dom's got it, like, mapped out on his piece. And he does have Brad

Marshan, Sam Bennett and Matthew Cichuk all on the same line. We just watched the Cachuk brothers for Team USA and how much of an advantage that was. Like, I thought it was going to be fun watching those guys play together going into it. It was so much more, it had so much more impact on the game than I expected those two to have playing together. And while Brad Marchand's not in the family, he might as well be. I feel like he is going to fit in with those. two so perfectly. And like you said, if they don't play together, you're just going to spread the nuisance around the lineup. You're constantly going to have to be having your eyes open for one of those guys on the ice. But I mean, this team is absolutely stacked with Verhege, Barcove and

Reinhardt on that top line. You've got a elite top line with three awesome players. And then even below that second line that I mentioned, they've got Luster Reinan, Lundel, Rodriguez, Boquist. They've got so many good players down the lineup. You obviously add Seth Jones on the back end. Yeah. This is the defending champs. There, I, what, where is the weakness on this team? Bobrovsky hasn't played as well this year, but I kind of attribute that to been there, done that. He's waiting for the real games to start. I would not be surprised at all if we see Sergei Babrovsky looking right like he did last year during the playoffs as soon

as the, the important games began. If you're trying to find a weakness on this team now, like where do things go wrong? Where can things possibly go wrong for the Panthers? There's no weakness on the Panthers. They are, they are just as, well equipped to win a Stanley Cup as they were last year. They're just as deep as they were last year. And there's a couple of things that now stick out about Florida. And Paul Maurice has mentioned this before. You know, kind of it's November.

You know, you lose a couple games here and there. And the Panthers have to play with a very high level of emotional engagement and passion in order for them to be them. Like that's their separator. right. If they're just out there playing, they're basically no different than any other good team. Come playoff time, that's there.

And that's always that like unknown, well, it's known, but, but like that's the separating factor for them that April comes around and all of a sudden, Brahegey turns into, you know, an elite scorer, which, you know, he's a very good

score. Um, you know, Kachuk is going to do his Kachuck stuff. Sam Bennett turns into an animal. I mean, Gus Foresling turns into the best shutdown defenseman, you know, when it comes playoff time. Like all these things happen when the emotional investment is there for them. And you can't have that over 82 games in a regular season. But you can have it at times and you can't have it when it's time to get going come playoff time. So that's one thing for the Panthers that really stands out.

You know, the other thing is the Bobrovsky angle. Like, and you mentioned it. Like, Brobrovsky is a proven playoff goaltender now. He is just flat out. And so if it's not going as well for him in the regular season, we've seen that before. We saw that the year that they went to the cup final and lost to Vegas. I mean, like, that's, that's the reality is that, you know, as much as the players have the emotional investment, the goaltender does as well. And he can steal games.

He has stolen games. When a number of games allowing like two goals or less. So I wouldn't be worried about Sergei Pabrovsky at all. I think, you know, if you're Florida, you're sitting there and you're, you're in a really good position. And Bill Zito has a knack for making the big deal, landing the big name, and also taking swings on guys and it works out. Like all the guys that he's taken swings on, whether it is Verhege or Bennett, because remember, those are guys that they weren't what they are now. You know, Gus Foresling is not what he is now. He's taking these swings on these guys.

they've all worked and then, you know, now he, you know, he brings in Nico Stern. Okay, we'll see if it works. Probably will. Boquist, like you mentioned, has worked. Like he's got an extension now, clearly. Who's the other guy? Pooley R.V.

They signed Pooley R.V. And all of a sudden my antenna goes up and I'm like, they're going to take a flyer on Pooley RV. And for some, like, this, it's going to work. Like, there's something about the Panthers touch that seems to work. They have everything going right for them. there are certain teams that Pliarvi could have signed on and you're like, well, that's probably going to be a waste.

But with Florida, we just assume it's kind of like Vegas. Like I see Vegas here. They take chances on guys. I just, when they pick up a guy, it's like, well, what's best case scenario? That's probably what we're going to get out of this. Totally, totally agree. And on Bobrovsky, I just feel like his style. Part of the reason I think it's funny that now he's like the playoff guy because like three

years ago, it was the guy who is great except for when you get to the playoffs. Right. But I just think, I just think that that is a. result of being the athletic kind of rhythm-based goalie that he is. Like he's not Connor Hellebuck. He's not in the same exact spot every single time. The consistency isn't there. Like that's why his stats aren't the same every year,

year over year the way Helibucks are. He's kind of a goalie that when he gets on, he's impossible to score on. But he's not always going to be on. He's not always going to be as consistent. And when he's not on, his stats can go sideways. And I think you look at like this season, the stats haven't been as good.

But when the playoffs get here, he turns it on. It's like he can flip that switch. He's not the type of goalie that's kind of flatlined the whole way. He has his ups and downs. And when he has an up, it's obviously really, really good. The other part is- Let me ask you something quickly before we move on, because you piqued my interest there,

because you brought up Connor Hellebuck in the conversation of Boebrowski. Connor Hellebuck has not been able to steal games the way Bobrovsky has been. And you talk, you know, so positionally sound like it's, it's very even keel. But does Connor Hellebuck have to have a little Bobrovsky this season, this postseason in order to steal some games? Like, it's just, he hasn't done what Bennington did to him at the Four Nations. And Bennington, he was moving around the net. Like, at times, it looked like he was, you know, not exactly where you want to be. but he made the acrobatic ones, the big ones that, like, you just can't account for sometimes when you are just so even keel in the same time over time.

I could not agree more with you. Hellebuck absolutely needs to have that kind of performance this year. And I'm hoping he does just for the sake of the narrative of his career. I feel like even you look at Four Nations, like he kind of like up until that overtime, I feel like Hellebuck was the narrative for the Four Nations for him was very positive. It was the U.S. goaltending. We expected it to be strong.

It has been strong. And then Jordan Biddington makes two miraculous glove saves. And all of a sudden, it's like we just look at Hellebuck in a totally different light. And it's like, well, he didn't make those saves. And you look at like his playoff statistics have been good. Yes, they were bad last year against Colorado. That was one bad series. But prior to that, he had like a 920 save percentage.

He's been very good. But he hasn't put the team on his back and made those performances. Even Hellebuck's best playoff run of his career when Winnipeg, to the conference finals in 2018. They lost to the Vegas Golden Knights. And that series was defined by Mark Andre Fleury making, like putting the team on his back, game six, they couldn't score on him. It was he had spectacular save after spectacular save.

He ends up topping Hellebuck. And yes, I do think that Hellebuck needs to, to, that's the next step. That's the next. That's how he becomes, when you look at his stats, he's the best goalie of this generation. But nobody considers him that. Who is it? It's, it's, it's, it's, Sandra Vasselovsky, because he has. the cups. He has the legend because he's had those moments. Hellebuck has been great for his whole

career, but he's never had those moments. And I think he's kind of a victim of his own success in the fact that his positioning is so good. He's not the most athletic goalie. Like when you compare him to a normal human, he's incredibly athletic. When you compare him to Basilewski and Shisterkin and these guys, he's not very athletic. He's not the most flexible. He uses his positioning to his advantage because he's not the most flexible and because his positioning is so good, he rarely makes spectacular looking saves. He makes those same saves, but he makes them look easier. And then he doesn't get the credit that he deserves, I think, because they don't look so spectacular. So I do think that that's part of why we think that of him is that he doesn't make those big saves

because they don't look that way because the way he moves, he plays deeper in his net. He doesn't have to reach as far. He's not extending his limbs out as far as most goalies do. so then when he does make the save, it hits him in the shoulder. And that just doesn't look as cool as when Vasilevsky is, I know, love saving it. So I get it. Part of it, it's, you know what? So I used to do part of being a healthy scratch, the routine that that entails is doing a lot of goalie sessions.

So I've had the chance to like just kind of see these guys in action, how they communicate with the goalie coach, what the goalie coach wants. And in a perfect world, the goalies are exactly what you just described. We make high percentage saves that hit us in the check. and it doesn't look like we're wasting any movement. And like that is how, in my experience anyways, I saw a lot of these sessions go down. But similar to being a player, if you can make that one extra play where it's out of the box,

it's like I held onto it, maybe I spun or I looked you off, or I did something that isn't in the system's handbook, that is like, that is why guys get paid so much money. That is why we talk about guys as like, you know, elite talents and goaltenders, it's no different for them. Like, if you can make that one save, of course you want to make 90% of your saves in your box that you talk about. But if you can make some significant ones outside of it, that's like, that's what takes you to Vasilevsky level. And I guess, Bobrovsky to bring it back to Florida and what we were talking about,

Bobrovsky, the last couple playoff runs were completely unbeatable. Yep, yep. Hellebuck needs it big time. he does. So let's look at these other teams. Obviously, there were a ton of moves, contenders. It just seemed like all the moves. I was talking to Bruce Cassidy, the Vegas Golden Knights coach, a couple days before the deadline. And I was asking him, like, what do you look for? And he's like, well, I've just been pumped that all the moves have been going east. Like, obviously, Seth Jones to Florida, but also like you saw Miko Renton and go to Carolina.

He was talking about it's just great that all the moves have been going east. And then deadline day gets here and Stars are loading up. The Jets made a couple moves. The aves loaded up. Which team do you think made of when you look, especially that central division? Winnipeg didn't, they were kind of the quietest of the bunch. But Florida adds Brock Nelson, Charlie Coyle, Ryan Lindgren, the stars add Mikhail Granlin a little bit ago. And obviously the big Miko Randin deal on the deadline. The Oilers were a little more quiet, but they're obviously one of the favorites there. Where do you see the shift of power in the Western Conference specifically after a very busy deadline? The Central Division is insane. You have to win that division. You have to win the Atlantic and you have to win the Central because you do not want to be involved in a two, three matchup against Florida or Tampa or Dallas or Colorado.

And I wouldn't have said that about Colorado before the deadline. I would have said they're a good team. And, you know, at the start of the season, I would have said Colorado is a top heavy team that struggles outside of that. It is amazing how quickly they have overhauled their entire roster. They did the goaltending earlier in the season. They brought in McKenzie Blackwood. He has been excellent. So has Scott Wedgwood. They've done, they've chipped away at the back end.

Say what you want about Ryan Lindgren, but he's a veteran defenseman who, when put in the right situation, can provide for that group. but the way they've overhauled the middle of the ice now in Colorado, that is so significant to the point where I look at them and I say, I don't want to see Colorado in the playoffs anymore. I didn't want to see Dallas in the first place, especially if I'm looking at, you know, this from the Winnipeg Jets point of view.

I didn't want to see Dallas. As much as Ranton helps, as much as Grandlin helps, as much as Cody Cici's a good defenseman. Like they were in good shape to begin with because you knew they were going to get more out of Robertson, they were going to get more out of Wyatt Johnston, and they were going to score.

That was inevitable. You had Rantinen, sure, it puts you over the top. But Colorado went from being a team where I looked at it and said, well, McKinnon's going to show up. But if you can find a way to slow him down to a certain degree, I am not sure that Casey Middlestadt is driving that team anywhere. But Brock Nelson on that team, he is. Marty Natchez looks like he was tailor-made to play on that team.

Charlie Coil is a really good third-line centerman and he's going to be used perfectly because of the depth that they have. So as much as Dallas is great, and I would pick Dallas to win the Stanley Cup today, I think Colorado's improvements has taken them to a whole different level. And that is going to be very significant in the power balance in the central division. Yeah, I agree with you. They jumped up a tier. And I'll give Chris McFarlane a ton of credit because you hear GMs talk all the time about how difficult it is to acquire a center or to get a goalie even.

And you look at the way he has transformed that roster in the two positions that are probably up the middle of the ice. Goleys and the four centers, they go from Giorgyev struggling the way he was. Justice Anunin is a young goalie that has a lot of potential but wasn't showing that he was ready for the moment. you just completely redo your goaltending. And both of those goalies, like you said, have been great. And then up the middle, coil, much, much better suited to be the third line guy. He's not being counted on to score every game. It's a bonus if he scores.

You know he's going to give you all the other things. And even Drury, as the fourth line center, they are so much stronger up the middle than they were before the year. And it's all during the season. And then obviously, like you lose rent and that hurts. But like you said, NACIS, he might be just as good. Like, I don't think he's as good of a player overall as random, but in this system, he can produce the way rant and did. I totally agree.

Colorado made a huge step. Dallas, I love the rantan in addition because I, I've watched so many games coached by Pete DeBoer in the playoffs. I covered him here in Vegas. I got to watch a lot of his series in San Jose just because they were against Vegas. And then the Golden Knights have played against him two years in a row in the playoffs, long series against him. So I have seen a lot of Pete DeBoer playoff hockey, and I do think that his system is so good. It's one of the best systems in the NHL in the regular season, but I do think it gets a little predictable in the playoffs. And I think that that's why his teams have struggled to score in the playoffs.

And I think that's why he doesn't have a Stanley Cup. Pete DeBore is one Stanley Cup away from being a Hall of Famer. And he hasn't been able to get it. I think that his team, as much scoring as they had in that lineup, that's what they needed. Like to me, it's like, what does Pete DeBore's team need? scoring always. That'll always be my answer. And you get a player like Miko Ranton who the guy, he's big, he's strong, he goes to the front of the net, he is built to score goals in the playoffs. And he can do it just on individual talent. Like it doesn't need to be

part of the system. He's just the type of guy who can get you goals when you're struggling to score. He can go over the boards and say, I'm going to get one this shift. And I just think that, yes, he's a superstar, but I think he is specifically the right type of player that they needed to add to an incredible Pete DeBoer team that is set to do, like there's no, like you said about Florida, there's no weaknesses on this team. When you look at that team and say, how does it go wrong? To me, the answer is, well, the scoring dries up in the playoffs because that's just what always seems to happen for this team.

So I love the addition of Miko Ran into that team. And to your point on the scoring, I would say, yes, it dries up, but you also run into the Edmonton Oilers, where Connor McDavid is unbelievable and unstoppable. So is Leon Dreissel come playoff time. So if those guys weren't like that, I would say, yeah, you have a good chance to get by, even if you're not scoring at the level that you hoped you would because you're a deep team and your strong defensive team, but you can only slow those guys down so much. Like I think some of it is predicated on who you are going up against.

And so, you know, leaving the Oilers out of it because we're talking about the Central, bring that back to Colorado. Like Colorado, they have added a lot of offense. Winnipeg doesn't get enough credit for the offense that they have produced this year. Like their power play still well over 30%, like still like leading the league in goals per game or goals scored. Like there is a lot of offense in Winnipeg, even though it was an underwhelming trade deadline because they didn't get their second line center. They couldn't get Brock Nelson because they didn't, you know, Colorado was willing to give up Cal Richie. I can't imagine that

I can't imagine that Winnipeg was willing to give up Yeager. You know what I mean? Like that that type of player is so important to that franchise because you can have them in your system for such a long time and have some control over the contract. So I get it. But Winnipeg's still a good team. The Central is fascinating.

But you're right. Like the Peter DeBore thing, he is going to win a Stanley Cup. He's too good of a coach not to. And this is the team that is, the most well equipped to finally do it with Rantinan. At some point, Hayeskin is coming back.

At some point, Tyler Sagan is coming back. Like, this truly is an embarrassment of riches for the Dallas stars. Yeah, they really are. And like at every level, Jake Ottinger's having a bounce back season.

He's what you want in net for the playoffs. He's like a cool customer, as calm as you can possibly get. It's almost hard to believe sometimes talking to him after a game that he just played a hockey game. But yes, the central is stacked. The West is stacked.

We're going to take a break. We're going to come back and talk about the East and a defenseman that the Florida Panthers will be without for the rest of the regular season and two playoff games. All right. So we talked the West. We talked to the Central. You also mentioned you have to win the Atlantic because the Florida teams are stacking up. Toronto's obviously looking good. Again, they're finally getting the goal tanking they've been wanting.

When you look at what Tampa added, they obviously bring back Yanni Gord, a huge part of their two cups. Oliver Bjork strands, another good defensive solid forward that they added to a team that is playing really well. You know me, I'm always going to talk about the goalies. Andre Vasselowski is leading the NHL and save percentage since December 5th. That is not a small sample size. That is months. He is looking like the elite goalie. We haven't seen for a couple years or at least a year and a half ever since he had that back surgery.

His stats were not as good. He's starting to look more like himself and that team is buzzing. And now they add two big pieces to it. They're obviously up against it with having to get through Florida and Toronto in that, in that division. How do you see things shaken out in the Atlantic after these deadline moves? Roll the dice. Like, you're in Vegas, right? Like, just go to the craps table, roll the dice, man.

That's how it feels in the Atlantic division. And you can, like, I think Florida, realistically, Florida is a step above Toronto and Tampa Bay. Like that, for sure, even without Aaron Eckblad for 20 games, which we'll get. into, but when it comes to Toronto and Tampa, two different types of goaltenders. Vasilefsky tried, tested, true, having an unreal season. Anthony Stolars, the complete opposite, hasn't played very much in his career, like is setting a career highs for games played, but is having an incredible year. And Dom wrote something that really stuck out. Over the last two years, only Connor Hellebuck has saved more goals above expected than

Stolars is 43.2, and he's done that in just over 51 games. On a per game basis, the top 10 among goalies that have played 50 games, Stolars is the highest, then Hellebuck. And so like that, that speaks volumes for Toronto when it comes to something they just haven't had. Like, they, they have been rolling the dice in net for so long, whether it was a young Joseph Wall who wasn't ready for the situation or Elia Sampsonoff or an unproven Jack Campbell, this is what is truly different about Toronto this

season and what can really help them. The thing that is hurting them is Austin Matthews doesn't quite look like himself and he doesn't have that game breaking ability. And Toronto is leaking oil defensively right now and they're supposed to be this much more improved defensive team and it hasn't

been the case for a few months. So there are some kind of causes for concern around Toronto. I think part of that has to do with the schedule that they've been playing. Like they've been on this massive run of road games and it hasn't been easy. But they have something that they haven't had in the past. And if Matthews can be Matthews during the playoffs, sorry, if he can be regular season Matthews who scores 69 goals this year in the playoffs,

not Matthews from playoffs past where, you know, you see signs of it, but hasn't been able to dominate, then Toronto will be well equipped to take on Tampa or Florida, but Tampa has revamped their back end. They have a top four that they can really lean on again, which they haven't had the last couple seasons, and bringing in Gord, bringing in Bjork Strand,

like just it takes a lot of the pressure off of the big three, four guys up front that have to do all the scoring for, you know, Gensel, point Kutrov Hagel. they have to do it all or they have had to do it all, they've been alleviated a little bit now. So I do think it's anyone's race in the Atlantic, but I do see Florida a step above. And Toronto has something in goaltending that they haven't had

at that level in the past. And Tampa has a top four that they can really lean on, which they haven't had the last couple seasons. The different style that Toronto's playing this year, where they are a more defensively buttoned up team, they're getting the goaltending. I'm hoping that that continues into the play. because I just want to see what it's like.

Instead of Austin Matthews and Nylander having to outscore the opposition, if they can win two to one games, three to two games, and you need one goal from Matthews tonight. I think that there could be a difference just in mentality of you get more out of Matthews because you're asking for less. Like you're not asking him to go out there and score two, three goals every night. It's like, can you just get us the one big goal that we need tonight? Because we're going to get the stops we need.

We're going to play good defensively. if you can just get that one goal, that one play, make that special play that only you can make, I think maybe, like, I don't know, we'll see what it ends up being. But yeah, I'm fascinated by the different style of hockey they're playing. You mentioned they haven't been as good defensively lately. I think that TANF being out is a huge part of that. And he's just coming back. I think when he's back and looking like himself, that's a totally different team defensively.

And the Stolar stuff is interesting because part of it is like he's come out of nowhere because he was a backup to Bobrovsky in Florida, and before that he was a backup to John Gibson when Gibson was at his peak. So this guy has been behind two stud goalies and never got to play. But there was this stat, and this is going back to last year when he was Florida's backup. And I would always, I swear I've tweeted this stat out like three times, but it was like the only goalies in the NHL to have positive goals saved above expected for five years in a row, which is really, really difficult to do.

And the list was Connor Hallibuck, Igor Shisterkin, Ilya Serochin, and Anthony Stolars. And it's like, one of these things doesn't belong with the others. What is going on here? Like most like there's a handful of NHL fans that wouldn't even know who Anthony Stolars was before this season. And he's on this list with all these goleys, but he was putting up good numbers. He just wasn't doing it. He wasn't playing enough for anyone to notice. All of a sudden he gets this shot in Toronto.

And it's like, well, maybe it's not coming out of nowhere. Maybe this guy has been playing really, really well his whole career. He's just never been to the guy because he was stuck behind two studs in Gibson and Bobrovsky. So now we're finally getting to see him play the minutes. He's finally like the more you play, the better you feel like the timing starts to get better. He's, he has been awesome. Obviously, he was hurt for a long time. And Joseph Wall played really great in there.

But he is a stud and he's a big goalie. I feel like those kind of goalies. I saw Aiden Hill go on that run for Vegas here. I feel like big positional goalies can get hot in the playoffs because. that's when just the chaos starts happening in front of you. There's deflections, there's screens, there's all this nonsense that you can't control. But when you're big as hell,

it's a huge advantage because the puck just hits you. You didn't see it. You didn't predict that deflection, but you're just, you take up so much of the net, it hits you. I feel like he's the style of goalie that can absolutely have a hot run in the playoffs. There's,

there's an optics thing to having just a monster in net. Like, of course he's got to be able to stop the puck and like, you know, you could look at Fedotov and Philly and be like, that guy's a monster, he should be the best goal in the league. Like, okay, it doesn't work that way. You also have to be able to play. You have to be able to look through traffic.

But, like, there's something about Stolar's, his stature, you know, it's, is an easy feeling having a guy back there like that. But I did want to bring up Joseph Wall. Joseph Wall has been really good. Like, and especially in the absence of Stolars, it's never been, for me, it's never been an issue of can wall do it it's can he be he'd be available to do it like he's just

been he's been too much in and out and that's why if I'm Toronto I think as much as Stolars has missed time over his career and he missed time this year I just think I can see it coming with Stolars more than I can see it coming with Wall like I don't know there's it's a weird

feeling but um I would be leaning towards Stolars but wall has been really nice as far as the 1B goes and I don't think he gives you less of a chance to win a game if you're Toronto. I will say, last year I was begging the Bruins to stay with the Swamen Olmark rotation every other game, no matter what happens. Alternate them, no matter what. And they didn't do it.

I don't blame coaches. When a guy wins a playoff game, it's hard to go to the other guy. And I'm not the one in the room that has to make the decision. So it's a lot harder for them than it is for me. but I wonder if Toronto considers a rotation in the playoffs between those two, or do you pick one? And if you do pick one, I would argue that I think it's easier because Stolars is the veteran,

he's been a backup his whole career. I think it's easier to start with Wall and go to Stolars if you need. Really? Then it would be, I think if you say Stolars is our guy, I think that hurts Wall mentally, like just his confidence and his just, you know,

going out there with your chest. I feel like you're the guy. I feel like that could do more damage to Wall than it would to Stolars, who's a veteran who's been the backup. I just think that if they started Wall in the series, it's easier. I think Stolars is going to say, that's all right.

I'm doing this my whole life. I'll get my chance. I'll show up. I don't know. I think it's easier to go from Wall to Stolars than the other way around. It's interesting. Like, Wall has the experience of kind of just getting thrust into the playoffs,

right? Like, a couple years ago in Florida, he had to do it. It was too green for that. He should never. have been in that situation, but he's had to do it. He played pretty well. But yeah, like, he's, he's had a track record of doing it.

But yeah, it's, you know, what, that'll be something we'll be talking about in Toronto for a while. And they both got to finish the season healthy. Like, that's part of it too. Like, hopefully there's not something around the corner for those guys. And they have to be available. And if they are available, there's no doubting the capability is there for both of those guys. For sure. All right.

So we've mentioned it a couple times. Aaron Ekblad suspended 20 games for violating the league's performance enhancing substance policy. He did put out a statement. I'll read it here. As the NHL announced, I've been suspended for violating the NHL-NHL-NhLPA Performance Enhancing Substances Program. The news that I had failed, a random drug test was a shock. Ultimately, I made a mistake by taking something to help me recover from recent injuries

without first checking with proper medical and team personnel. I've let my teammates, the Panthers organization, and are great fans down. For that, I'm truly sorry. I've accepted responsibility for my mistake and will be fully prepared to return to my team. When my suspension is over, I've learned a hard lesson and cannot wait to be back with my teammates. So that's pretty much the response. We don't get many of these in the NHL compared to the other sports. But when we do, that is pretty much the typical response that we get every time.

As a player who's been in the locker room and you've been tested a million times, I wanted to get your perspective on just kind of let fans into that side of things, how you get supplements, what kind of procedures you go through before taking them, and how this could possibly happen the way Air Neckblatt explained. Okay. This is a good question because this goes all the way back to training camp. Every year at training camp, the PA sets up a meeting with the doctors that come through. They do it to every team.

And you get the whole explanation. There's a video, everyone gets a pamphlet, and the pamphlet is kind of dry. It's a lot of information, but it's like every ingredient that you can take is in this thing. Now, you're not expected to know that. What they do to make it the most simple for you is say that anything that you take at the arena, so you went into the trainer's room and you got this from your trainer's cabinet. That is good. that there's nothing in the locker room that is going to get you in trouble.

But to take it one step further, anything that has a certain logo. So when I was playing, it was the NSF. If something has the NSF logo, you are free and clear. But to take it another step further, even if you found it at the arena, even if it has the NSF logo, show your trainer and just get your trainer to look at it because you triple check it and you know you're going to be fine. Now, the NSF logo in the grand scheme of things is not the be all and end all. There's a lot of great supplements that just don't have it for whatever reason and would meet the criteria of being legal, which means you can take it.

Still, show that to your trainer. And if there's something like, you know, a puffer is one of these things that can get you in trouble, you know, I'll be honest with you, like certain like hair, some guys lose their hair and they take certain supplements like that kind of stuff can get you in trouble. If there is something that you need for hockey, so a puffer, you can get what's called a T-U-E, a therapeutic use exemption. So it's documented and they know that you have to take this and it's not illegal because it's not really helping your performance. It's just helping you breathe because you have to. Yeah. The T-U-E, is so important. If it wasn't found in the trainer's room and it doesn't have the NSF and it's,

it's something that could potentially get you in trouble, you have to get the TUE and it's easy to do. Like your trainer takes care of it all and then you're good to go. So like it's unfortunate that this has happened, but there's like three or four steps that you can go to that are all above board to make sure that this doesn't happen. So there's really, like, there's really no excuse for getting caught with anything because of all the, all the safety valves that are in place for us as players. During your career, how often did you take, did you find a supplement that you wanted to take and take it to your trainer and, and check with them to make sure this is okay?

You know, not, not often when I was healthy. It was more when I was hurt, right? Like, there's certain things that can help speed up the process. But, you know, like, what PRP is not getting you in trouble, right? Like, those types of things are fine. It's just, you know, there are certain things that can help, but like, your trainer will, will tell you if you can and can't take it or if it needs a TUE. And if you need a TUE, you'll just go get it.

But, yeah, not not overly often just because of the rehab protocols that we had and the ability to get, you know, first class medicine that wouldn't have any, you know, drugs involved anyways. So, um, and, and testing is random. Like, you don't know when it's happening. Like, there's no heads up. So basically, you'll walk into the facility in the morning and all of a sudden you see a table with a couple people sitting there and, and, and you're like, yeah, you're, you're, you're, you're getting tested today. And there's different, like, there's different types of tests. Like, I remember seeing, like, there's an A, a B, a C. And you don't know. What do you of them stands for. Like, it could be for recreational, it could be for performance enhancing. So,

like, you, you don't know what, what you're getting tested for. It's, it's interesting. But there's, like, the PA has done a really good job of making it crystal clear what the protocol is, um, how to handle it and how to not get in trouble for this kind of stuff. Like, there's, there's a lot of safety for the player, um, cooked into this whole process. Do you think the star players get tested more often than the fourth liners? No, I would say in my experience, it's like the fourth line meatheads that get tested. Okay, yeah, that means. Yeah.

I have like vivid memories of like, you know, fourth liner, like fighter. And it's like, oh, here we go. I'm getting tested. I wonder why. Is it like once a season? Is it a lot more than that? It's a couple times a year. Yeah, it's maybe a handful.

Maybe a handful times a year. they're around. But yeah, like it's just everyone has to do it. And there's, you should be able to get through this and not get in trouble. Did you ever bring a supplement to your trainer and, and, like,

get it checked out and then come back to you and say, no, you can't take this. That would have got you in trouble. Yeah, I can't remember what it was, but I do remember that happening. Um,

because there's, there's just small things that might not even be listed in the ingredients. That's why they say, like, you can't go wrong with NSF. Anything that is NSF, is NSF, you're good, run it by us, but you're not going to have to get a TUE. Like, that is the gold standard for certification and you're safe.

And like, a lot of the stuff guys take is, you know, vitamin D, you know, multivitamins, fish oils, I don't know, zinc, like that, that kind of stuff. Like, that's, that's what you're taking mostly during the season. And all that stuff is readily available at the rink. And it's all, it's all above board anyways. Cool. Cool. Awesome. Well, thanks for this. I feel like I understand this whole process. I feel like we talk about this kind of stuff, but we don't actually see it from like the player's perspective enough. So thanks for that. Yeah, man, no worries. I don't think I don't think it's changed since I've played. My last year in the league was was 2018. So I'm pretty sure it's fairly similar. Like it didn't change. I got into the league like my first training camp was 2011. And from 2011 to 2018, it never changed. So I would imagine it's very, very similar. for sure awesome well uh let's take one more break and we'll come back and talk about the red hot senators

all right so last thing we're going to hit on today ottawa senators they've won four in a row they've got points in six straight and this team is playing there was there were a lot of hopes i was one of the people on the senators bandwagon just hoping this team would finally i'm always rooting for these teams that have been so close for so long and it just feels like they've been in a constant rebuild they bring in lenisole mark the expectations are high higher than ever. And still got a little bit of hockey to play, but they're in that top wild card spot. They're five points clear of the team they need to stay ahead of to stay in playoff position. They're looking really good right now. What have you liked from the Sends?

Oh, boy. I've liked the Sends like their outlook right from the beginning of the year, but they are so much more equipped to win close hockey games this year than they ever have been. And a lot of that is Lina Sallmark, but defensively, like they have improved so much under Travis screen. He deserves a lot of credit for what he has kind of implemented here. And, you know, like, offense doesn't come easy to this group. But I would also say that, you know, they haven't been fooled by like false hope. Like, they haven't really been outscoring what their expected goals would be. So it's not bloated. So it's, it's always been with Ottawa a very fair indicator of what they actually are offensively. And that's okay. Like, it's okay to know exactly what you are.

which is fine. They're like, they're just above a middle of the pack team offensively. But defensively, like they, they can kind of weather the storm and they can clog things up. And they had to win games in the past where it was like we had to score four goals. We had to score five goals. And it's not the case. They can win tight games. Like we just saw them do it. Linus Almark stood on his head a couple nights ago against Detroit. And, you know, they win a, the second half of a back-to-back last night against Philly. And Philly's leaking oil.

found ways to get offense. Like they're more, they're more suited to win different types of games, which you couldn't have said about them last year. And they're a playoff team. Like Ottawa should be a playoff team because they have a good foundation of something that they can kind of go back to and rely on. And it's consistent and it's predictable.

Like they're right where they should be. Yeah. It seems like their best players are stepping up this time of year. And that's what you need. Like you mentioned Olmark, I think 48 saves the other night against Detroit on 49 shots. And Brady Kachuk has been on fire since coming out of the Four Nations break. It seems like he scores every night. And we talked about it with the Panthers and Matthew Kachuk, but it just feels like this.

We haven't seen Brady Kajok in the playoffs, but man, does it feel like he's built for that type of hockey, right? Like I'm sure everyone is pumped to see it. It's going to like this almost feels like, yeah, we haven't seen it, but we already know exactly what this is going to look. like and how it's going to go with Brady Kachuk in the playoffs. Totally. Like I just, I actually worry like that first round. You know how crazy that is? Like I just, I would never tell him to rein it in because I don't believe in that.

And that narrative has been out there. Like I would rather have the guy that will go head first through the wall. But he is going to be so excited to play his first playoff game. And that is going to be like must see stuff. And, you know, Tim Stutzla has been awesome for Ottawa all season. and long, like at times when the offense was really dried up, and he was a part of that at times. But like his determination and will away from the puck, really leading by example, kind of leaning into this whole, you know, Travis Green, change in philosophy, defensive first.

And, you know, we'll kind of go from the back end out. Like, he, he's been awesome. And a little bit of a pallet cleanser in Ottawa where Josh Norris has moved on and he was good friends with everyone there, had been there. probably I would say more offensive upside than Dylan Cousins, but Ottawa has eliminated the not knowing if Norris is going to be in the lineup issue that they had. Because when he was out of the lineup, that team had a different look. When he was in the lineup, they won a lot of games,

especially when Pinto was in the lineup with them. But now they have more predictability, knowing that Dylan Cousins will be in there. And he's played great. He's got 18 hits. over his last, his three games that he's played. Like he's, he's kind of, you could tell that he really wants this to work. He really wants to get his game back to where it can be. And that renewed sense of purpose, it's with cousins,

but I think it's with this whole group where it's like, we are, we're here. Like, we can actually do this. And that's, they've come a long way. And it's been a, it's been a nice, nice season for them. For sure. I'm looking at their, and like, I love their third. line. Like you mentioned Cousins adds to that second line, but Ridley Greg, Shane Pinto, Michael Amadio on the third line. Like they've got some depth. This isn't a team that

it relies on their top guys, Kachuk and Stutzla too heavily. Like Amadio has been scoring a lot lately. I got to cover him here in Vegas, a super calm guy who kind of resurrected his career here in Vegas. He was getting waived and all of a sudden he has a career year for the Golden Knights. He scored a double overtime goal against Winnipeg in the first round to help them win that Stanley Cup and gets a good contract. And he's living up to it so far in Ottawa, just a bunch of solid middle six forwards that can get the job done and you can rely on them. Yeah. And I think if you go back to the off season, like they brought in guys with a purpose. Nick Cousins is not playing right now, but they brought in him to take away some of like the agitation from Brady. So he didn't

have to do it as much. You know, David Perron has been that. Like he's been that in his career, you know, a little older now, not quite the same jam. But Still, Michael Amadio serves a purpose playing in the middle six, long, rangy, and think about how Travis Green wants to play. Like clog things up, make you have to go through five players. You know, and Ridley Gregg works well with, you know, Shane Pinto and those guys like they're, they fit the way that they want to play the game. So that's a nice ad.

They're a deeper group. They're a better defensive group. And they have a goaltender, which when he's playing at his best, which he has played at times this year. He's been somewhat inconsistent at times. He's been injured at times. But when he's playing his best, that guy can steal you games. And that is something that they haven't had in the crease for quite some time. For sure. We've talked a lot about like the differing styles of goalies. And Olmark, when I watch him, I think he is the perfect style behind a young team that's trying to learn how to win because he's just so calm back there. Like he's not like, he's not

Sergei Bobrovsky flopping all over the place, making crazy saves, moving everywhere, like darting back and forth. He is so calm back there. There's not a lot of unneeded movement. I just feel like just his style of play, his demeanor, everything about the guy is the guy you need behind a team that's trying to figure out how to win for the first time and go on one of these runs for the first time ever. Yeah.

Yeah, for sure. And you know, it comes from a place in Boston where, you know, like winning is, was. anonymous with that organization, regardless of how far they went in the playoffs. But it's always nice to have that kind of experience and lend that to a young group that is trying to win. Similar to Brady Kachuk coming back from the Four Nations, being around all those guys, you know, and seeing them in their element. Really good experience for the Ottawa senators this year. Sweet. Well, that's going to do it for us today. Thanks so much, Frankie. This has been a lot of fun. We got to see you working your magic on the board on trade

deadline day. What do you got going on this week for TSN? Oh, oh man. I had the, Habs Canucks panel last night. I got Habs Crack in at 10.30 p.m. Eastern. So that'll be fun. I'll have a little sports center Friday, Jets panel Sunday. And it's my kids, my twin girls' birthday on Thursday. So they're turning one. It'll be, uh, yeah, just, just watching them hang out, which will be great. Cool. Busy, busy week, uh, professionally and personally for you. Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. Well, that's it for us. Thanks for listening to The Athletic Hockey Show.

Everybody out there, the Shons and Frank are back together next Wednesday. Mark Lazarus and Rob Rossi have the next athletic hockey show on Thursday. See you later.