The Athletic Hockey Show - How to bring back blockbuster trades to the NHL, and sitting stars ahead of the trade deadline

Episode Date: February 16, 2023

Ian and Sean discuss ways to bring back blockbuster trades in the NHL, with apologies to Blockbuster Video. Also, with the Coyotes sitting Jakob Chychrun, and other teams following suit with their potential trade targets ahead of the deadline, shouldn't San Jose do the same with Tim Meier, and the Blackhawks with Patrick Kane? Next, another Stadium Series game is upon us this weekend, and the NHL will try something new next month with an animated broadcast.Jesse Granger then joins the show for "Granger Things" to discuss teams to consider wagering on before the trade deadline, and the crew wraps up with Sean recalling creating a Twitter stir around the 2011 trade deadline, and a look back at the game's first radio broadcast in "This Week in Hockey History".Have a question for Ian and Sean? Email [e-mail] or leave a VM: [phone]!Save on a subscription to The Athletic: theathletic.com/hockeyshowSubscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowGo to grammarly.com/tone to download and learn more about Grammarly Premium’s advanced tone suggestionsVisit BetterHelp.com/nhlshow today to get 10% off your first monthTry Peloton risk-free with a 30-Day Home Trial, New Members only. Not available in remote locations. See additional terms at onepeloton.ca/home-trial Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Stick around to the end of today's episode to hear the opening segment of Between the Lines, the Athletic's newest narrative podcast looking at the intersection of race and football, now available on the Athletic Football Show podcast feed with new episodes coming out every Tuesday through March 7th. This is The Athletic Hockey Show. Welcome back to your Thursday edition of The Athletic Hockey Show. it's Ian Mendez, Sean McIndoo with you. Coming up, Jesse Granger will drop by like he always does for little Granger things. We'll tee up, you know, the outdoor game this weekend.

In case you didn't know, there's an outdoor game. Washington, Carolina, we'll chat about that. Trade deadlines about two weeks away. We've got lots to get to on that front. Tons of mailbag questions this week in hockey history. We're going to chat about Sean's ideas to improve. the NHL trade deadline. Bring back Blockbusters.

Actually, I almost sounded like I was saying Bring Back Blockbuster video. You do that too? Yeah, I could do that too. Wait, didn't you, you worked at a, you, I know you worked at a video store in the early 90s, but it wasn't a Blockbuster. It wasn't like a mom and pop shop?

No, I worked at the local independent video store that got crushed by Blockbuster. Yeah, which then got crushed by Netflix. Exactly. Like, were you, like, was this, this is, a mom and pop shop. So was it like maximum like three copies of Jurassic Park or were there like 20. It was not an unlimited supply, let's just say. People were always very surprised when they came in. They'd be like, what do you mean it's Friday at 9.30 p.m. and I can't get the hottest new release.

And you'd be like, dude, this store is the size of my bedroom closet. What do you what do you want? We've got like 18 movies total. Get to get here a little earlier next. time. Younger people will never know the feeling of walking into a video store, being on the hunt for video, seeing the video that you want, thinking that it's there, then picking up the case only to realize it's empty, it's gone. Yep. Yep. Or even worse, looking behind the box and it was some other movie that someone had put back there. Exactly. Like, imagine if you sat down at Netflix and you're like, I'm going to watch, whatever it is, you know, what's the new? Oh, glass onion, can't wait. And you just clicked. And Netflix was like, sorry, there's already eight people.

watching this. Can't do it. You're done. You're like, ah, we should have booked it. We should have got the little high school punk behind the counter to put one aside for us. Anyway, we don't want to bring back Blockbuster.

We do want to bring back Blockbuster Trades. That was your column earlier this week. You basically laid out here is, you know, roughly six, seven ways in which the NHL can bring back Blockbuster trades. Because I think we all. If we want to. Well, no, we don't all agree.

They don't want to. I will tell you right now, we don't all agree because I have heard there are, you know, fans out there who say, no, no, I don't want more blockbusters. I like the stability. I use the example just as a contrast in the intro to my piece of what we just saw in the NBA, where the NBA just said it's trade deadline. And it was chaos. Megastars moving literally overnight in one case. Kevin Durant says, I want to be traded. They make a trade like this big.

blockbuster complicated trade overnight, which, you know, as a fan of hockey, where the GMs tell us that every trade takes months to figure out these complicated things, it was pretty interesting to see how quick that deal came together. But I heard from some fans who said, I do not want that. I don't want the NHL to be the NBA. I don't want players to be able to, you know, I like the idea of Sidney Crosby playing his whole career with one team. I like the idea that Connor McDavid can do that. I, I, I, I, I, I, don't want these players bouncing around to the extent that they do in some of the other leagues. Because we've seen it recently in the NFL.

The NFL used to be a league where trades weren't really a big part of it. But we're seeing more and more of that. And of course, Major League Baseball, you've got it as well. And so I would argue that I think many fans, I would assume it's most fans, but I won't even say that. But many fans would like to see bigger and better trades in the NHL because they feel like it adds to the entertainment value. They look at what happens in other sports and they go, and then meanwhile, you know, we're all arguing over Vladimir Gavakov and it's like, we don't even know who that is. And yet he's one of our big names. Yeah. So like, I get it's not for everyone,

but if, if you accept the premise that the NHL as an entertainment product, trades are entertaining, therefore bigger and better trades would be better for the NHL, I've got some ideas on how you can make it happen. And if you don't accept that premise, then you can maybe just read the piece anyways, because there's some things in there that I offer up as examples that I don't think would work. Or you could just skip it and come back next week. I'm good with that too. Yeah. Like, I think the problem is, like, you and I grew up at a time when, again, this is when Blockbuster video was prevalent. But like, guys like you and I, we would come home from school and, you know, you'd go, like, for me, I grew up on the West Coast.

So I would actually, the first thing I would do is I would go home and I would watch the three o'clock edition of what was then sports desk and turned into sports center on TSN. And, you know, you would just turn it on and you'd be like, holy smokes, like Paul coffee and Rick Tocke and Mark Recky all got traded in this crazy three way. I remember going home and watching and looking at the TV like, what just happened? Like, you would just, you never knew. And these were blockbuster trades. happened all the time.

All the time. And during the season. Yes. Off season during the season. We had the trade deadline back then, but it wasn't as big a deal because it wasn't the only time the trades happened. Big trades happened in November. Big trades happened the night before opening night.

They happened during the season or during the off season at any time. And they were far more frequent to the point where you look down a list of the greatest players in NHL history and lots of them were traded. in some cases multiple times. But, you know, we just see less and less of it. Now, I will say this. One of the things that I put in the piece is as much as old-timers like you and I like to reminisce about the era of the blockbuster, an awful lot of those deals happened because

they were forced by the players. Players used to hold out for trades. Players used to say, I don't want to play for this team anymore. I'm going home and they would do that sometimes in the summer and training camp sometimes just in the middle

of the season. You know, people forget, people always talk about the Doug Gilmore trade. What a steal for the Leafs, what a dumb move by the Calgary Flames. Doug Gilmore walked out

on the Calgary Flames a couple of days before that treat. He just said, I'm going home. I'm packing my bag, see you later, I'm not a Calgary flame anymore to let me know when I'm traded.

So their hand was forced. Pavel Burray famously held out here in Otto. We had the Alexei Ashen situation where he sits out an entire year. this was just a common part of being a hockey fan was that every season you would sit down and go, okay, who are the superstar players that just aren't playing this year because of contract disputes or they want to go somewhere else? And we don't see that anymore. I mean, you almost,

I'm not sure that we've ever seen an actual hold that. I'm not talking about RFAs who don't have a contract who don't report, but guys saying I've got a contract, but I'm going home because there's no renegotiation allowed. You can't tear up a contract. Even if a team wants to, if the player wants to, it doesn't matter. You've signed that contract. There's no way out of it other than the buyout. There's no, if Connor McDavid woke up tomorrow and said,

I'm way underpaid. I shouldn't assign that big contract. Too bad, Connor. There's literally nothing that you can do to get a new deal. And that's what drove a lot of it. So, you know, and so one of the things I say in the piece is if you really want to bring back blockbusters, you've got to give more control to the players. because that's what we see in the NBA, you know, players forcing these trades and be careful

what you wish for because that will get you big crazy blockbusters, but I'm not sure that hockey fans necessarily would want to go back to what we used to have as far as, you know, just waking up one day and being like, hey, oh, opening night, this is great, can't wait, oh, what's that? Oh, Nathan McKinnon is just not going to play this year because he doesn't want to be in Colorado anymore. Kind of wasn't all that fun, especially if it happened to No. Okay. So the other thing, the one idea I want to bring up from your, your column is something that you wrote about back in 2015. In fact, you put the link in there back to your ESPN article from 2015. So this is a, this is an old idea that you've kind of resuscitated, brought it back.

And it's a neat, you know what I like about this idea is when you first hear it, you're going to be like, nah, it's a stupid idea. And then you talk, you talk it out and you're like, you know, okay, it sounds a little like this is what the XFL would do or something, whatever. Sometimes we need to get out of the box. This is an out of the box idea. I'm going to let you explain this to the listener

so I don't, because look, you've had this idea for at least seven years, if not longer. Explain the extra, I don't know, I almost want to call them phantom draft picks. The magic draft picks, I think, is the name that people seem to have settled on.

And yes, thank you. You have set it up perfectly. You will hate this idea when you first hear. Just, yes. Give me a minute. Like I say in the old ESPampies, just let it percolate. Just let it sit for a little bit and then come back and let me know what you think. Here's what we're going to do. And it's, it's, think about the concept.

Don't get hung up on, on the details so much. But we're going to create some draft picks. Okay. The NHL is going to, at the end of every season, give each team one bonus draft pick. Okay. And these are new picks. We are not taking picks away from anyone. That's really important.

Nobody's losing a pick so that some other team can have one. We are creating them. And this is not something that's at all unprecedented. If football does this as compensation when teams lose free agents, they get extra picks, sandwich between rounds, baseball has done it. Hockey used to do it. There is nothing new or radical about the idea that the league can just create some draft picks.

And how it's going to work is it's, we're going to start with the worst team in the league, the team that finished dead last, and we're going to give them, and I pick the number 20. We're going to give them the 20th overall pick. Here you go. So the Chicago Blackhawks this year, if they finish dead last, in addition to the regular picks, they get the 20th overall pick. And again, the team that would have 20 doesn't lose it.

They just bump down to 21. Nobody loses anything. The next worst team, we go five picks after that. So they get number 25. team after that gets number 30. We work our way all the way down the league, five picks at a time, sprinkling these bonus picks throughout the draft. Now, I'll save you the math.

The way that works out is the worst three or four teams basically get the equivalent of a late first round pick, a half dozen teams after that get the equivalent of a second round pick, and on and on you go until the very best teams are getting like six round picks. Okay. Now, here's the twist. You get these picks. They are for the following year. year's draft. Not the draft that's in a few weeks by this point, but the draft that's in a year

in a few weeks. So you've got about 13 months to look at this draft pick. Here's the twist. The catch is you're not allowed to use that draft pick. You can't pick a player with that draft pick. We just gave you the 20th overall pick, but guess what? You can't use it. You can't draft anyone. What can you do with it? You can trade it. It is basically the equivalent of a gift card that hasn't been activated yet. You activated it by trading it to another team. And we are basically giving you currency to use in your trades. And again, that bad team, Chicago, they've got a pretty nice chip here that they can go and use to go and make a trade to make themselves better.

Other teams, you know, the better you are, it's not as valuable. But hey, we can all throw a six-round pick into a trade. Maybe that helps move it. Maybe that third round pick. And again, you've got a year and a bit to do it. So you've got this offseason. You've got the deadline. You've got right up until the next draft, but you have to trade the pick.

If you don't trade it, if you still have it when that pick comes up, it's gone. It's void. You lose it. And the appeal here to me, first of all, this is, I mean, this is what you do, right? When an economy is not working well, you juice the economy, right? You pour a little money into everyone's pockets, and then they go out and buy the TV and the stereo and all of that and get things moving, it's kind of the same deal. We're sort of giving, we're giving, you know, blank checks to these teams and saying, go and spend this, but you have to spend it or else you lose

it. You'd have to put some rules in. You'd have to say, you know, I make the suggestion that you've got to trade the pick. You've got to get a player coming back. Otherwise, teams are just trade their magic picks for some other teams, magic picks and get around it that way. There's ways that you would have to work it out. But how much fun would it be? Imagine if a team that had one of these high picks made it all the way to the draft without having traded it yet. And they're sitting there, you know, they haven't found a taker here, they haven't found the right deal. Imagine how that fan base would be just flipping out going, they can't lose it. They got to trade it, knowing that it was there. I mean, you would be sitting there. There would be a page on the athletic or whatever site you go

to that would have like all 32 picks and their status. Have they been activated yet? Have they been traded? I just think it would add a fascinating element, a fascinating wrinkle, and it would get these trades moving because it's user or losing. If you don't make a trade, you've just kissed value goodbye. You might as well get out there and work the phones and do your job. Okay, but so what you're saying is

it's for the next year. So that, like a team that's sitting in 30th place one year could make a huge leap up in the standings and alter, like you actually, it's almost like, you know what's really annoying? You ever get a gift card from somebody and you don't know what the value is? And you're like, you kind of sheepishly go to,

whether it's Starbucks or, or wherever, and you're like, I don't know how much is on it. It could be $10, it could be $20, could be $50, you have no idea. And this is a public service announcement too. If you're giving a gift card to somebody, just make it very clear what the value is.

Okay? That makes it very awkward. But really, that's the same way. Like the same thing. You're like, you're getting a gift card and you don't know if it's $10 or $50. Well, you would, in theory, at least the way I'm proposing it,

you would know because it would be based on that season that just finished. But maybe we could do it that way. Maybe we could say it's, it is basically, it's a placeholder pick. That could maybe be even an additional wrinkle that would, that would make it fun. Yeah, I don't know. I like the, it's a good concept. I like the idea of just getting, getting this stuff out there.

And you're basically, you know, it's, it's, yeah, it's like your grandparents or, you know, come over and they hand you the $10 bill. I say you take it, but you got take it to them all and spend it. Don't put it in your bank. I, grandma doesn't want to see you put it in the bank account. And you go buy yourself a toy and then show me what you got. It's, it's kind of like that. Yeah. It's,

boy, it's, look, I like it. It's a different concept. Think it over. Don't leave me the snotty voicemail right now. Just give it a night, sleep on it. And tell me if, you know, by tomorrow morning you're not sitting there going. Somebody waking up. I think this crazy stupid.

And the other thing is, don't tell me that, well, they'll never do it. I got lots of great ideas that the NHL never do. That's part of what makes some great ideas. So, I mean, that's, you know, we clearly, I mean, none of these things I'm proposing we're ever going to happen because they're proactive and creative and all the things the NHL doesn't do. But just, you know, when I'm commissioner, I might, I might throw this one out to a vote of the fans. So just think it over. Give it a chance. So you mentioned, look, we're going in, we're about two weeks away from the trade deadline. Columbus is making

Gavrokov a healthy scratch in Arizona has done the same thing with Jake Chikrin for trade-related reasons. Again, strange phrasing. That's how they're saying it. Now, as we're getting into this window, if you're San Jose and you've got Tim O'Meyer and you're Chicago and you've got Patrick Kane and I think, I guess to some extent Jonathan Taves, shouldn't you be bubble wrapping these guys? Are we at the point where they should be bubblewrapped? And then the next question becomes, does there become an issue around competitiveness here where if Arizona's not playing arguably its best player or one of their best players in Jacob Chickren, are they outright tanking? If San Jose does that with Meyer, Chicago with Kane,

are we looking at it more as asset protection, or are we looking at it as outright tanking? I mean, it is outright tanking, but these teams are already outright tanking. We all know the drill. Sorry to Gary Bettman that, you know, I know Gary Bettman has a secret magic survey that tells him that fans believe him when he says there's no tanking. None of us do.

We all know exactly what's going on. on with the Blackhawks this year. We know what is happening with all of these bad teams. And yes, this is part of that. I do think it is more about asset protection. But I'm sure the fact that it might help you pick up an extra loss or two

isn't a nice added bonus for the GMs and coaches that are making these decisions. I mean, look, that would, in an ordinary year, or at least an ordinary way of thinking, that would be the punishment, right? Should I sit my best player down because I might trade him? Well, yeah, as asset protection, that makes sense. But then we're more likely to lose the game and we don't want to lose games. We want to win. Well, a lot of these teams don't want to win. So it's, I don't think it's necessarily an incentive to shut a guy down, but it's certainly not a disincentive to think that, oh, we're going to lose more games. When do we see more guys start getting sat down?

It'll be interesting to see. I mean, it's sort of like the coyotes kind of broke the seal on this. Because we've seen it before. We've certainly seen guys get scratched close to the deadline. But usually it's closer. And usually it's when a deal is imminent. You know, there is, in a lot of cases, he's scratched and the trade is done by either that night or the next morning. And in this case, it doesn't sound like that's it.

it makes sense. I mean, if you're getting ready to trade a guy and you're going to get a first round pick and a great prospect, and then he goes out there and he gets hurt, I mean, you've just, you flush that away. Now, I guess the flip side, and the other reason maybe not to do it is because you do want to showcase these guys. And, you know, maybe some of these guys, you say,

hey, look, you know what they are. But some of these guys, especially a guy like Patrick Kane, he's coming off an injury, hasn't had a great year. Maybe, you know, some of your, potential trade partners are starting to get cold feet thinking, you know, is this guy really what he used to be? You put him out there. You hope he has one of those old Patrick Kane nights,

one of those two goal, three assists, dominating in the offensive zone nights. And suddenly your phone is lighting up. GM's going, okay, I'm back in on this guy. Maybe that's a reason to keep these guys in. But if a guy like Timel Meyer, where the work speaks for itself already, I think you're probably getting pretty close to the point where you say, yeah, we do need to sit them down. And then we see how widespread it becomes and whether it rises to the issue of something where the league has to step in and figure out a way to deal with it.

I'm not even sure what that would be. I mean, you can't force a team to play a guy. You wouldn't think. But I guess we find out. Yeah. No, it's interesting. I've watched it. Ottawa, I remember just before they traded Mark Stone.

They made him a healthy scratch. But that was with like two games to go, you know, before the deadline, which was under. This feels like the earliest I've ever seen players starting to get bubble wrap. Yeah, I've never seen it this early without an imminent trade about that. Yeah, you felt like something was going to happen with Jake Chikrin on the weekend. Well, that's the thing, right? There was a lot of, in fact, there was a lot of talk when Arizona sat him down. And by the way, full credit to the Arizona Coyotes for being honest about this.

You know, there's none of this. Oh, coach's discretion or any of it. They just, they said what it was. And we could use more of that in the NHS. Trade-related reasons. But that's weird phrasing, though. Would you agree? Well, I mean, it is, and I'm just not sure that I can come up with something better. I mean, that's it. It's honest. Yeah. He's on the TRR list. And look, when that happened, everybody went, oh, he's going to L.A. And L.A. doesn't want to announce it because it's Dusted Brown night. So they want to, you know, tomorrow, it'll happen. It hasn't happened yet.

but it just sounds like they just want to make sure he doesn't get hurt, you know, especially a defense, right? One slash shot up the inside of the foot and you're, and that's it. There you go. You've just lost assets. You know, in Chikrin's case, maybe it's a little surprising because he is a guy that is still under contract. So even in the worst case, if he got hurt and he was going to miss the rest of the year,

you can still revisit in the summer next year, what have you. But these guys that are rentals, you know, he gets, Gavikov takes a slap shot and he's out for the rest of the year. I mean, that asset is gone. Like, you've, you've just missed an opportunity. I don't, there's a part of me that doesn't like it, but I cannot come up with a good reason for teams not to do it. Yeah. I just think the phrasing seems awkward and weird, but yeah, I, I get what they're doing. I get what they're doing. It's just that now you have to trade them though. Like, you can't get to March 3rd and you're like, wow, we couldn't find it. It will be very awkward, won't it if you get there. You get to March 3rd and we couldn't find a suitor for,

Look who's back. For Jake Jikrin. Yeah. Yeah. Not as awkward as Evgeny Dattanov walking back into the room, but somewhere. Somewhere in there. But here's the other thing, though. Do you think that part of this is, does scratching Jacob Chikrin for trade-related reasons,

create a sense of urgency? Does that send a message to other GMs saying, all right, there must be something imminent. We got to get our best offer in soon. I mean, you know, not the GMs couldn't just call each other up and say, hey, we've got a good offer. We like, if you can beat it, let us know. But is this maybe a way to goose the market a little bit? I wonder. Yep, that's a great point, right?

You're trying to create a little hype around the asset that you have. What better way to make it seem like something's imminent than to outright pull them from the lineup? I had no idea until, I think it was Tuesday of this week when I was kind of following along that we got ourselves another outdoor game this weekend. Stadium series. Caps and Hurricane. So we want to just bring that to everybody's attention. Saturday night,

8 p.m. It's Carolina. It's Washington. It's a stadium series game. Like, did you know that this was coming up right now? Like, was this on your radar?

I realized it last week. Yeah. And so, yeah, I had in my column over the weekend, I sort of had the, like, hey, when did you figure out that there was an outdoor game? And a lot of people said, about just only when I read that.

And then I think a lot of people maybe heard about it for the first time when it was announced that Alexander Ovechkin was going to be missing a few games, including this outdoor game. And everybody kind of went, oh, yeah, outdoor game. We certainly know about that. Look, it looks like it's going to be a very cool event. It's just being held at a football stadium. I'm saying just. I mean, it's a football stadium.

It's not some extraordinary backdrop. You know, backdrop we've never seen before. but I'm all in favor of teams like Carolina getting their chance to host. You know, it doesn't have to be the same half dozen Northeastern American teams year after year. This was a game that previously was going to happen, had been scheduled to happen in either 2021, I want to say, but it was a pandemic casualty. So it's great that they've got it back. The setup looks cool. I'm sure, you know, a lot of these outdoor games are now,

They're like the All-Star game. They're local events. It's a great memorable thing for the fans and the fan base. And with Carolina, it's not just the game. They've got like a whole weeks of events. I'm sure it's going to be very cool and fun for their fans. For the rest of us, I mean, I'm certainly not rearranging my schedule so that I can see another outdoor game at a football stadium. But you know what?

For the local teams, I'm sure it'll be cool. And it's nice to, it's nice to spread it out a little bit. So I'm happy for Carolina and their fans and their market. Yeah. And, you know, the Capitals are involved in the outdoor game. And then this week, the NHL announced the Capitals are going to be involved, Sean, in another unique game. This one coming up in the middle of March.

So, of course, with the ESPN deal in the United States, that opens up the door to some collabs with Disney. And that's exactly what we're going to see in the middle of March, March to 14th, to be exact. It's Caps and Rangers. And this is going to be. The first ever, I guess, real-time animation of players, and the players will be animated, excuse me,

and the teams animated in the mold of characters from Disney's Big City Greens. So basically, the game's going to be going on, and as the game is going on, there's going to be an animated version of the game on Disney Channel, and ESPN Plus. So it's an animated, like, imagine watching your, your favorite teams playing, and there's an animated version of them, and you're watching cartoon characters essentially playing. Now, I love anything to attract new audiences I'm for.

What do you think of this idea? Yeah, I love the idea. I do not know what Big City Greens is, what I'm sure that people with young kids probably do. And this is exactly the sort of thing the NHL should be doing. You and I are both football fans. We've seen the Nickelodeon games where there's like slime shooting out of the end zone and SpongeBob and all of that stuff, that's great. That gets people watching your game that ordinarily wouldn't. And yeah, most of them will just watch it and forget about it, but some of them, it will plant the seeds that will turn into future fans.

I love this idea. I'm interested to see what the execution is. But the NHL of all leagues should be one of the ones taking the lead at like, hey, let's, let's try some things. Let's be experimental, especially something like this has no effect on the game. on the ice. They're not messing around with that. So the traditionalists can't get mad. It's just a different way to present it.

Absolutely. Let's experiment. If it doesn't work, no problem. If it does, awesome. We've maybe made a few new fans. The best will be, you know, somewhere, some random fan is going to be tuning into ESPN Plus or some other games on Disney Channel and we'll have no idea what's going on. That's right. Like that's that's I want to see that I want some kids somewhere

To trick their parent and be like Hey you want to watch Capsar Rangers tonight dad or mom Yeah come on watch the game and then be like what You know there's you know there's somebody who's like I'm going out to the bar And I'll tell PVR the game and watch it when I get home There's sitting there two in the morning going Oh I think I've done something real wrong I've been over served because oh my God man this guy

This old Hetchkin he looks like a cartoon character out there right now I'm maybe I got to pack it in go to bed Oh man Anyway, yeah, I love it. Give me some fun things outside the box. I just don't know. Like, I remember, like, Nickelodeon would do that in the NFL, but for playoff games, which was wild to me.

Like, that's the one time where I don't want to see my, imagine your quarterback throws an interception and he just gets like, like, slime. And you're like, oh, God. In the NFL, it was always done like as an, like on a second channel. Right. They'd never, you could always watch your regular game and you were just fine. But, uh, yeah, let's try something new, especially the NHL regular season is so long and so many of the games feel like they don't mean anything.

This is the perfect time to experiment a little bit. So good for the league for getting out of their comfort zone. All right, Sean, time for a little Granger things. Brought to you by our good friends at BetMGM, the exclusive betting partner with the Athletic. It's Jesse Granger and I'll tell you why, Jesse. We are really getting close to the NHL trade deadline here. We're seeing teams start to hold players out. we're starting to see some deals.

And so we thought, you know what, might be a fun conversation to have about if you're looking to, you know, play some smart bets right now ahead of the trade deadline, is there somebody that, you know, maybe now you're looking at them and thinking, okay, their roster's going to look different on March the 3rd, it might be wise to lay some money down on them.

So like if you were looking at it from that perspective, what's a team that kind of jumps out to you? Yeah. And I'll start by saying, because hockey's not like, I don't know, basketball, for example, where one person can like massively swing the odds, it would more so be you're trying to get ahead of the the betting public, right? Like hockey lines and hockey future lines shift when money goes on and say you've got a team that's a contender and they add a big name at the deadline, there's going to

be a bunch of money on that team right away. So if you can bet them before the trade is made, you can get some better value. And the team that I'm looking at is the Edmonton Oilers. I know they've lost a couple to a couple bad teams lately in Detroit and Montreal, but since January 1st, they have the best record in the Western Conference. And that's really what pointed me in Edmonton's direction is the Western Conference feels like it's up for grabs right now. I'm still not counting Colorado out. I think they have another gear, I think, and plus they could be another team that adds at the deadline. But I think outside of Colorado, you look at the top teams in the West and just none of them feel like, stable contenders that you really think can go all the way.

Like, they all kind of have flaws. And I think the Oilers are one of those teams. They have a major flaw on defense. But if they can shore that up, obviously the one that everybody's been kind of thrown around is Eric Carlson. That would be really fun. We talked about it on yesterday's show. Sign me up for that.

No matter how bad it cripples the Oilers moving forward, I still want it because it would just be too much fun to watch. But even if they can't get someone like Eric Carlson, Jacob Chikrin seems unlikely. it looks like he may be going to L.A., but if they could get him or Vladisov-Gaverikov from Columbus or even one of the other, like the lower tier defensemen that are going to be available like John Klingberg in Anaheim or Joel Edmondson. I think you look at this Oilers team. They've only lost once in regulation their last 13 games.

Jack Campbell's been playing a lot better lately. He lost last night in the shootout against the Red Wings, but before that he had won eight straight, and he's been looking really solid. And that just the eye test, he's definitely passing it. He's looked like the goalie they hoped they were acquiring this offseason. So they really only have one hole. I mean, I actually have liked the depth at Forward, which is kind of strange to say for the Oilers, but I think their depth has gotten better since Evander came back in the lineup.

To me, I look at that team and I say they are a defenseman away because their depth defense isn't terrible either. It's just really that top pairing is not good enough. Darnell Nurse is okay, but not good enough to carry a top pairing by himself. And I think if they can get a top pair defensemen that can really shore up the top of that lineup, I think the rest of the blue line is good enough. And like I said, wide open Western Conference. It feels like it's there for the take.

And especially if Colorado doesn't get it together and get into that gear that we all think that they have. I think the Western Conference is there for the Oilers taking. What do you guys think? I wrote about this last weekend where I said that the Oilers were getting awfully close to be in my Western Conference favorite. They weren't there yet, but they were right up there. Obviously, you know, if you're a fan of Dallas, you're putting your hand up going, hey, we're right. We've been leading the conference for most of the year. If you're a fan of Winnipeg, you're saying, yeah, but Dallas is leading us because they got all these loser points.

And if they didn't have those, we'd be right there with them. Vegas, I still think if things clicked together health-wise, it could be there. But Edmonton's right there. And, you know, this is a team that they went to the conference final last year. So if they can upgrade from that, yeah, it does feel open to them. And yeah, I mean, the Eric Carlson scenario, man, I still have a hard time figuring out how that would work. But anything like that, anything that gets aggressive, that could, you're right. I mean, if we wake up tomorrow morning and that trade has happened, the Oilers go right to the top of the Western Conference favorite list.

So, you know, maybe a little speculative chance to get in before that happens. Yeah, it is kind of weird. Like, you look at the, just even look at the final fourth. You mentioned, Jesse, that, you know, Colorado's got to get it together. And, you know, they're in third place in their division. Edmonton's a wildcard team. They go to the other conference. Tampa's in third place.

The Rangers are in third place. Those are all the final four teams from last year, right? None of them would start a playoff series at home right now if the playoffs started today, which is, it's remarkable. It just shows you how wide open this does feel. And I'm with you. I can't argue that Edmonton wouldn't be the team that you would look at and say, yeah, give me Edmonton to get out of out of the Western Conference, especially.

But the only thing I think on Carlson, you guys tell me if I'm wrong on this. And I know Eric quite well, boy, like, do you think somebody would waive their, like, with that much term left on their deal? would waive and no trade clause to go to Edmonton? Like, if you had one year left, I could understand. But man, I don't know. It's not a rental. And also it's the sort of thing where, you know, would he waive to go to Edmonton?

Hey, there's no way for us to know. I'm sure the chance to go and feed stretch passes to Connor McDavid would feel pretty attractive to any offensive defenseman. But it's certainly not a situation where you're going to make a chance. trade on deadline day and call up Eric Carlson and say, you got an hour to decide if you're no trade. I mean, you can't do that to the guy. A lot of times, we're so used to the deadline being the place where rentals happen. And, you know, I don't want to, I don't want to hand wave away the impact of getting traded if you're a rental. But, you know, if it's a couple of months, that's very,

very different from saying, all right, I'm Eric Carlson. I got to, I got to move my family. I got to move, you know, some of these guys, you know, if you got kids, you got to pull out of school, you might have a spouse who's got a career in a certain place. In the case of Eric Carlson, you're moving to a new country and everything that entails. I don't think we should assume that he'd waive for anywhere, but, you know, the Connor McDavid factor has got to be there and the chance to go chase a championship. And the fact that it looks pretty bleak for the San Jose sharks for the next few years, you got to figure they'd at least think about it. But you know, he, it's, he has earned the right to think about it and take as much time as he needs

because he negotiated this into his contract. Right. There are so many reasons that say this deal won't happen. Like you said, it's the contract would be massive for the oil that should take on. Would he even want to go? I agree with you. I think that San Jose looking as bad as it does and the fact that they aren't like where the red wings are, where they're like looking like they're turning.

the corner on the rebuild. Like the sharks are starting the rebuild. They may not have, like, he's under contract for a long time and they may not have finished his rebuild by the time his contract is over. I think that could possibly swim. But just for me, just from an entertainment standpoint, I mean, look at it. We've got a player who is on pace for like 150 points for the first time in forever. And we've got a defenseman that's on pace for 100 points in the first time in forever. Let's get those two guys on the ice together and see what happens. It would be. It would be. be so much fun. It might blow up in their face. It might be a cap, just nightmare down the stretch. But for this one year, and like I said, this is the year. Like when I was when I was looking at this,

I decided, okay, let's let's try to find a team that you can find some value on. And I'm looking in the East and it's the East is terrifying to me. There are so many good teams. I don't, even the Bruins are amazing. And I feel like if they make a big move at the deadline, I still don't think they're a lock to come out of the East because Carolina is so good. Toronto's playing well. You know the lightning are going to be tough in the playoffs. The devils and Rangers are still kind of nip at their heels. The East is so competitive. So to me, if you're out there listening and you don't like Edmonton and you say, you

know what, the defense scares me. They never get it done in the playoffs. To me, the other options have to be Dallas, Winnipeg, Colorado, maybe Vegas. Maybe I'm a little too close to the situation here in Vegas. I don't think the Golden Knights are one player away from, I've even been arguing that maybe they should sell and try to reload for next year. I just don't think this team without Mark Stone healthy is good enough. But regardless, no matter which team in the West do you think is the team,

I think the team in the West that makes the best trade at the deadline is suddenly either the favorite or right there with the avalanche because of how wide open it is. You know, it's funny. You mentioned that the East is wide open, right? Here's a question, I guess, for both of you, is that, and I know Jesse you said, one player can't shift things. But if Timel Meyer ends up going to Carolina, or New Jersey or what, like, could one player tip it for you guys in the east?

I don't know that there's one player, but Tim O'Meier to Carolina might be the single move that feels realistic that I think creates the biggest swing because the hurricanes are staying in range of the Bruins, both in terms of the standings and in terms of just how strong they look as a top-to-bottom team. if they were to go out and get a guy that I think at this point is the consensus biggest impact forward who's going to be moved, maybe the biggest impact player period, defending on what you think of Eric Carlson and how realistic that is,

I think that's maybe the closest that it would come to. I think if Timelmeyer goes to Carolina, I think at that point we need to reevaluate whether this actually is Boston's conference to win or whether we've got a one-in-one-a situation. with the hurricanes. So in our athletic picks where they have, I think we've done it four or five times where they have us pick, I've picked Carolina to win the cup from preseason and I'm still picking them to win the cup. That's been my team and I like them. And I also think Tim O'Meyer not just in

how good he is, but I think stylistically he's so good around the net. Obviously I see a lot of him covering the Golden Knights out here. They play the sharks. It seems like every day they play them today. He's so good around the net and nobody gets pucks to the net like, Carolina. Like that team, they are just, it's a, it's a firing squad at the net. And Brent Burns only adds to that. You look at their numbers in terms of shot attempts and rebounds created. That's what that team does. And I think Tim O'Meer is a perfect fit for parking him in front of the crease, cleaning up, rebounds, scoring dirty goals in there. I think Tim O'Mire would be a great fit. And I, I do think, like I said, I already have Carolina picked. I think Boston, I wouldn't have no argument with Boston, but I do think that that

would put them above Boston maybe, like, like Sean said, maybe 1A1B. But I just, the East scares me. Like there's just so, like the team that goes, that gets to the Stanley Cup final out of the East will have gone through such a more difficult road than the team coming out of the West, in my opinion. Absolutely. And that influences who you're picking to win the Cup, right? You might be looking at Edmonton going, you know, yeah, maybe they're the best team in the West,

but they're only the six or seven best team. in the NHL, well, they're only going to have to beat one of the teams ahead of them. If you think all the other teams are in the east. The one question I want to ask you, Jesse, is when you're looking at the odds, the future odds for who's going to win the cop or divisions or conferences or what have you. Do you see any movement that seems to be fed by trade speculation, rumors, that sort of thing? Or are there any teams that if they have a quiet day or a quiet lead up to the deadline that maybe the odds fall a little bit? Like are people already baking in the fact that, you know what, New Jersey is going to do something? Or the Maple Leafs have got to add somebody to the point where if it doesn't happen, maybe you see the odds swing the other way because betters are disappointed.

Yeah. Like I was saying earlier, trades don't really affect NHL odds. It's strange. And like we all watch it and we know like, yeah, the point. players are going to affect it. But in terms of the, like, it has to be such a big player in order to change future odds. I always bring up basketball. And like what you're asking, basketball is the perfect example. If in the off season, if it's rumored, LeBron James is going to a certain team before he even signs, before his plane even lands there for the visit, they've already, the

sports odds makers have already shifted the odds for that team because they know everyone will pour money on that team just hoping or like football. Sam, like Lamar Jackson, quarterback for the Ravens, like, he's kind of, like, people think he might get traded. If there's a rumor, Lamar Jackson's going to throw a team out, the New York Jets, the, the odds will change on that because they're trying to get ahead of people betting. In hockey, because it's such a team sport, because the guys are only on the ice for a third of the game, even the ones who play the most, like maybe if Connor McDavid was rumored to be traded, I could see a shift, but outside of him, there really isn't much. Like, like, Timel Meyer, as you said, best play.

player available, he's not a good enough player to shift the future odds for a team. So it's just, hockey is just so much different from the other sport. And even in football, like, it's got to be a quarterback. Like, even the best receiver in the league is not shifting the odds that much. It's got to be a quarterback in basketball. One player can make a huge difference. So you see the odds. But in hockey, you just really don't see that. Where you see the shift is when the money comes in. So I guess to kind of go along your question, if, if all the fans, heard rumors of Carlson going to Edmonton and started pouring money on Edmonton, then the odds would change because they kind of react rather than trying to

get ahead of it in hockey, just because like I said, players, you never know how they're going to fit. They just don't make the same kind of individual impact, I think. It's always so depressing, especially around deadline time. You hear some big name that's on the rumor mill and we spend weeks, maybe months, speculating it. Finally, the deal happens. And you go, oh, my goodness.

And then, like, Dom updates his model. And he's like, yeah, their chances of winning the cup went up 2%. Yeah. They're like, how did we do all that? What was the point of all that? They are now projected to have point two more points this season. Yeah. Yeah, there you go.

Yeah, exactly. Hey, Jesse, we'll leave it there. Always great to have you drop by the Thursday pod. Thanks for this. Enjoy Golden Night Sharks Thursday night. And we'll hit you up again. I'm sure with lots of talk heading into you, it will be about a week out of the trade deadline next week.

So thanks for this. And yeah, we'll hit you up next Thursday. Sweet. Sounds good. Thanks for having me, guys. All right. Thanks, Jesse. All right. Always great getting Jesse Granger back on on Thursdays for Little Granger things.

Let's open up the mailbag here. Reminder you can always send us an email to the athletic hockey show at gmail.com or leave us a voicemail. 8454454-85. Remember, Sean wants to hear specifically about your thoughts on that magic lottery. Yeah. Think it over. Think it over. Think it over.

Then get over, then leave us a voicemail. 845-4-4-5-4-5-8-4-59. All right, let's get to some emails here. The Fifth Line Center. I'm going to go ahead and assume that that's not their real name, but the Fifth Line Center has emailed into the show and said, I've been a Down Goes Brown reader from the original website. So much fun reading Sean's work over the years.

There's one particular Down Goes Brown moment that I love above all others. And I like to remind him of it on Twitter, every so often, although I've never heard him recount the tale out loud. I'm talking, of course, about the infamous deadline day. The Down Goes Brown decided to trade Joffrey Lupel. The major TV networks ran with it with all the momentum of a runaway freight train. Other than hearing that story firsthand, which I would love, I've always wondered, Sean, did you have any other moments like that where he had some fallout down the road?

Thanks for the show, Ian and Sean, you guys are good. people that's from the fifth line center. So for the audience that has never heard the Joffrey Loopal you doping some major networks, what do we got here? Right. So first of all, yeah, okay, let me,

I'll tell the story. This is 2011. I just had to look it up and I'm, luckily there was a fair amount of media coverage about this back then. So it's 2011. I'm still some random blogger that only a handful of people have even heard of. So, but I'm on Twitter, and this is, you know, in the early-ish days of Twitter.

And the 2011 deadline was not good. Nothing was happening. It was a boring day. And I guess it was around 1230. And I just had one of those moments where something funny popped in my head and I tweeted it out. People always ask me like, you know, sometimes when I tweet something, a tweet out a joke, people will be like, how long have you been saving that one? It's like I'm never saving anything. Nobody thinks ahead and plans anything on Twitter.

You just tweet whatever goes into your head and then people yell at you and you move on to the next thing. So I said to my somewhat limited number of followers, I said, you know what, we got to spice up this deadline. So at whatever time it was, 1230, let's everybody tweet at Joffrey Lupel. Sorry to see you go. Good luck in. And I want to say maybe was the Islanders. I don't know, something that felt plausible. You know, good luck with the Islanders.

And I sent it out, a couple people replied, you know, ha ha, that'd be funny. And I thought, okay, that's cute. And then as 1230 neared, I thought, you know, it's going to look pretty stupid if nobody does it. Hopefully I get at least a few. If I get 10, I'll be happy. And I remember sitting there looking at my little tweet deck column. And at 1230, the first. tweet pops up, hey, Joffrey Lupel just heard about the deal. Good luck with the Islanders.

And then another one and another one. And pretty soon there were five. And then there were 10. And I thought, okay. So the joke didn't bomb. That's cool. And then there were 20. And then there were 50. And then there were 100. And I thought, that was the moment where I went, oh, no, I've done a thing here. And this is, this is not great. Now, as far as me pranking the networks or fooling the networks. That, I do not take the blame for that. Because again, I had a very limited reach at this point. What happened was Joffrey Lupel, a little while later, set out a tweet where he said,

oh, apparently I'm going off to the Islanders. And he had like an emoji or like some eyes or, you know, something like that. That made it, to my mind, very clear that he was responding to the joke. He had gotten all these replies. His phone had probably lit up. He understood that it was a joke and that nothing was happening. And so he tweeted that out. That's the interpretation I choose to go with.

And it was that having a player tweet out, oh, I've been traded, that set everything off. Remember, this is 2011. This is back in the day where sometimes you would see something on Twitter and you wouldn't just assume it was nonsense. Like people still trusted social media a little bit back then. And so that's when people ran with it. And there was like one of the radio reporters in Toronto broke in to coverage to breathlessly announce that Joffrey Loopold had just been traded. And I don't think TSN and Sportsnet reported it as a done deal. But there was, you know, some talk that, hey, there's, there's, you know, Joffrey Loopold just tweeted this.

We're not sure what it means. Brian Burke, of course, had to get front and center on it and, you know, talk about how he had to pull. Joffrey Lupal aside and let him know this was just an internet thing and what have you. So that is how I momentarily caused Joffrey Lupel to be traded to the Islanders in 2011. Obviously, that deal never happened. There was no such deal. But yeah, this was, it was. I'm reading a business insider article about myself.

It was Joffrey Lupel to the Islander. at 1250. And, yeah. And Brian Burke. Brian Burke didn't think it was all that funny, but Joffrey Loopal, let's leave the story here. Joffrey Loopal himself was quoted

by the media saying it was actually pretty funny. So thank you, Geoffrey Loopal, for getting the joke and not getting me permanently banned from Twitter. Ryan writes in via email. Hey, Eminem crew. I see, Ryan's leaning into the Mendez-McDoo. I've never agreed to that name, by the way.

I'm just saying there's a sponsorship deal just sitting there for us. Sitting there. In fact, it would be even better if we went to Smarties and we're like, hey, how would you like to... I know our American people, listeners, like, what the hell are Smarties? But nobody has ever referred to us as Smarties.

Yeah, exactly. It's just saying we could go to Smarties and be like, what if you got the Eminem boys to say we prefer to Smarties? Anyway, Ryan says, Eminem crew, like a lot of listeners, I thoroughly enjoy the NHL 99 series.

reading every player, learning new things about the greatest players of the modern era. Of all the players that were ranked, though, I think Connor McDavid at 16 might have been the toughest one to place because he has so much time left to do more, but he's already accomplished more than most players did in their entire career at the age of 25. So Ryan's got a thing for us here. Ryan says, look, I want to take you guys back to 1986. At that point, a 25-year-old Wayne Gretzky was coming off his record 215 point season, already had two Stanley Cups in his back pocket,

a con smite, seven consecutive heart trophies, six straight Art Ross trophies for Pearson Awards, and moved up to sixth overall on the all-time point list. My question is this. The two of you were teleported back to October of 1986 without the benefit of hindsight, and they asked you to put together a list of the greatest players in NHL history, where would Wayne Gretzky rank?

And who would you have in front of them? I say October of 1986 specifically because that would give Sean a chance to see one of Wendell Clark's four-gold games in person. And if I'm sending you back in time to do some work, you may as well get to enjoy a game from that time too. Well, thank you, Ryan, for the teleporting and taking us back to 86. So, Wayne Gretzky. It's a great question. It is a good question. I mean, he ranks behind Wendell Clark, obviously, because I've just seen one.

No, that's a four-goal game. Because it's interesting, because if you were to, if you go back and you look at our NHL 99 list, I mean, the majority of the guys on that list wouldn't have been on the list in October 86 because either they hadn't, you know, played yet, hadn't been born yet in some cases, or hadn't played enough that they had really established their legacy. In fact, you know, you scroll down, you know, Bobby Orr would maybe be number one. On the list, although if we assume we would go back even further than 67, you'd probably be Bobby or Gordie Howe would be your top two. Rocca Richard would be there. On our list, the next guy down is Phil Esposito, who's still active at that point. Phil Esposito would be right up there. Marcel Dion would be there. Wait, Phil Esposito was still active in 1986?

There's no way. Was he not? I think you're thinking of Marcel Dion. Esposito was active into the 80s. I mean, he played for, remember, he had the stintech. But who's the GM at that point in the, in the mid-80s? He was the GM by 80s. Yeah, and you're right.

He only played the 80. Okay, so you're right. But so he is, so he's done at that point. He'd be a top 10 guy. He'd be top 10 for sure. Ray Bork, I think at that point is, is a superstar, but maybe not a guy that you, you'd look at. Mike Bossy would maybe be close.

The Islander guys would be in the conversation, right? Dennis Botvan would be in there. Pott van would be there. But, but again, like a lot of these guys, it takes some time to really go back and appreciate them. So I think Marcel Dian would be way up there. The guys from the 70s happened, right? So you're Gilafleur, Ken Dryden, probably Larry Robinson.

And yeah, and then some of the old-timers, Bobby Clark, would be another guy that would be high up on lists at that time. Where does Gretzky rank? I mean... But, okay. So if you're going to say that, or... was maybe number one. Like, Orr's career essentially ended

at the age of 26, right? So, like, at that point, Gretzky and Orr would be very comparable in terms of sample size. I mean, Gretzky, of the guys we just listed, Gretzky is absolutely top 10. Well, I think he might be number one at that point because he's got the 215 points.

And multiple cups and seven straight heart trophies. That's never been done. I think he might be the guy. You can make the case. I think absolutely from our eyes today that by October 86, Wayne Gretzky is already the greatest player in the history of the NHL. I think that's a very reasonable case. But remember, we have been teleported back to October of 86.

Do you think in 1986, if you had said, Wayne Gretzky is already the greatest player in in actual history better than Gordy Howe, who he is still well back of in. in points better than Bobby Orr, better than Rocket Richard, better than on, I feel like you would have had a lot of pushback. I feel like you would have had, especially then you would have had people going, this kid, yeah, he scores a bunch, he doesn't play defense, he's only won a couple of cups, he's got a long way to go to catch Gordy Howe and all of this stuff.

I feel like it would be a tough argument to win, even though you could very reasonably make it. Yeah, it's a good question. It's a very good question. We appreciate that. Ryan, I appreciate you maybe sending us

back in time to the 1986. So yeah. Feel free to leave us there, actually. That was pretty good, man. I could go home

and hit up the Calico Vision and I'd be, yeah, blockbuster video and try to get TechMobile. Well, that would be a couple years down the road.

Man, I'm old enough to remember when you had to go to the store and rent the VCR and the, and the movie at the same time. People, you could rent the machine.

So what? Now we found the one, like the divide. the few months between us, we found the exact cutoff point. I'm old enough. You are so young that you are shocked. Yes. I am.

I don't remember you being able to go with the same age. And they had a bunch of VCRs. And you would, if you didn't own a VCR, right, you'd rent the VCR for the weekend. And then you'd rent like six movies. And it was just forced family movie watching weekend. Listen, I'm old enough to remember when remote controls on things like VCR's had like a cable to them. Yeah. Like, they weren't, like, wireless.

I was the remote control when, you went to the grandparents house. Oh, but I don't remember you being able to rent the machine. That's wild. You had to do. Yeah. I mean, a lot of us didn't, didn't have VCRs. Maybe we didn't grow up with the, you know, the fancy neighborhood that you did. We weren't VCR, Rich.

Everyone. Yeah. Everyone had the beta max and all of that. Yeah. All right. Let's wrap it up, shall we, as we always do with a little this week in hockey. history. Actually, I just want to do one thing. It's kind of a weird one. I'd like to get the backstory on this. We're going to take it back to February of 1923. Okay? February 14th, Valentine's Day,

1923. It's the first time ever an NHL game is broadcast on radio when radio station CFCA airs the third period of a game between the Toronto St. Patrick's and the Ottawa senators from Arena Gardens in Toronto. I got so many questions about this. Like, they only broadcast the third period. Like, yeah, that's weird. Is it safe to say they tried for two periods to get things like technically right? And like, there's no way that they had planned.

Like, let's just do the third period, right? I know. I think that's absolutely possible. I mean, the back then, you're probably sitting there going, is anyone going to listen to three hours of a sports event? No, you just, you tag it probably shows where an hour. long back then, at the most, I could see them just saying, hey, we're, we're only going to just, we're jumping to the third period. That's the only, that's the only period that's

going to matter anyways. Yeah, it's weird. Anyway, so they only did the third period. Like, now, I want to know, do you think that this radio station, CFCA, like, do you think they just went there and broadcasts? Like, did they ask for permission? Like, did they have to pay? Do you think they paid for the rights? You know what? Yeah, what was the race? I don't know. It could have just been, yeah, some guy sitting there sneaking a, they, they, Giant old-timey microphone in under his coat. Yeah, I have no idea. We might be going back to this, by the way.

With the Valley Sports deal. This could, we could, we could, we just, we just hit the 100 year anniversary. We might be right back to it. These CFCA guys might have been on to something. Yeah. And then the other, like, like, I always wonder too, like imagine, like, you go back because obviously radio predated television by, you know, two or three decades when it came to sports. And I've always wondered, like, how did the first person who ever broadcast a

hockey game know what to say or kind of how to describe it? Right? Because if you went back into the early turn of the 20th century, nobody would have watched the sporting event and in their minds thought about doing play by play. Like, wouldn't have, like, wouldn't have crossed your mind. Like, how did, like, do you even do play by play? Are you just describing, like, in general, like, what's happened lately? It's, it's very strange. Because even, like, I'd be. I'd be. You, fascinated to hear because you never hear any play-by-play from those days. I mean, the earliest you go back to Foster Hewitt, but that's a significant amount of time later. Even when you go back and watch, you know, sometimes you'll see those old newsreels, but they're obviously not

done live, right? I mean, it's a voiceover that's on something that's been edited together. So, yeah, I don't know. I'd be fascinated to hear what that broadcast is selling. Yeah. No, it's yeah, it's a, it's a weird one. Anyway, obviously those don't, those don't exist the early, early 1920s radio broadcast, but I just, I'm so fascinated. You only did the third period of the game.

I'm sure there's a great, it's a great fact. They left before the shootout. It was, yeah, that's right. We're out. You say, this isn't real hockey. Forget it. Yeah, everyone put their stove top hats or whatever those, you know, those big hats of the early 20th century, put them on, I'm out of here and off they win.

All right, we're out of here on that note. I want to tee up some things that I think are coming up on the athletic hockey show for next week. Charlie Lindgren, the Washington Capitol is going to drop by and join Custis and Gentilly on the Tuesday show. Fresh off the aforementioned stadium series game. That's the Tuesday boys. NHL agent Ben Hankinson, who's based out of Minnesota, has a great roller vex of clients. Ben Hankinson. I'm going to drop by with Rob Pizzo, Mike Rousseau, Jesse Granger on Wednesday.

but it just feels like everybody's got things lined up for next week. I kind of feel like what about us? And Ian and Shaw will be back with their shenanaganizing on Thursday. That seems fair, right? Yeah, there we go. Actually, I think on the Monday show, I think we're going to get Shana Goldman and Julie and I just chat about kind of playoff races and some things like that.

I think that's her plan for Monday. So there you go. That's laying out next week. That does it for this Thursday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. As always, you can email us. Any questions that you have? The athletic hockey show at gmail.gmail. Or leave us a voicemail 8454458, 8459.

Right now, a one-year subscription to the athletic, it's $2 a month when you visit athletic.com slash hockey show. I'm Tashon Reed. I'm a black man from Ferguson, Missouri. My dad, Kenneth, grew up in the Pruitt Igo Projects in downtown St. Louis in the 50s and 60s. Water lines in several of the Pruid Igo apartment buildings broke and the subsequent flow of water turned into ice. and now raw sewage bubbles out of the ground like a malevolent spring.

He lived through what would become known as the Civil Rights Movement. Freedom, freedom, freedom. My mom, Brenda, was raised in Osceola, Arkansas, in the 60s and 70s. In the South, racial tension hadn't waned one bit. My parents told me about their experience. My parents told me about their experience. experiences and taught me the ugly history of what black people in America went through. Then, in 2008, it felt like maybe, just maybe, America as a whole, was taking some positive

steps forward. If there is anyone out there. When Barack Obama was elected as America's first black president. We still doubts that America is a place where all things are possible. Perhaps the days my parents described living through were a thing of the past. Who still questions the power of our democracy. Tonight is your answer. I know now that that pipe dream wasn't real.

I had already started to figure that out as I got older, but it was really driven home in August of 2014. There was growing outrage tonight after an unarmed African-American teenager was shot and killed by police in the St. Louis suburb of Ferguson, Missouri. Darren Wilson, a white police officer, shot and killed Michael Brown, Brown, a black teenager, in the street within an apartment complex in Ferguson. I did not hear once he yelled, freeze, stop, or hope. It was just horrible to watch.

Brown's body laid in the street for hours. And as words spread that Brown had attempted to surrender before Wilson ended his life, more people gathered around the scene. Eventually, their curiosity turned into anger, and their anger turned into protest. There's a problem. There are any available Ferguson units who can respond to the Canfield and Copper Creek advise? It was the spark of an uprising that would boil over in the months to come, and it became a landmark moment in the origin of the Black Lives Matter.

I knew all about the deep-rooted antagonism between police and the black community, but seeing it in person like this was different. As someone who looked like Brown, who was from the same neighborhood, and who was the same age, everything about the situation. His tragic death, the response from the community, and the polarizing national discourse that followed resonated with me. I was only a few weeks away from starting my freshman year at Mizzou in pursuing a career in journalism.

And I quickly made the decision that wherever my career took me, I would make sure to highlight the issues that plagued my community in my coverage. That's why I'm doing this podcast. This is Between the Lines, a series dissecting how the NFL, America's biggest game, has dealt with America's biggest issue, race. The NFL does have a race problem, but more than that, the owners have a race problem. You're going to hear from more than a dozen former and current diverse players, coaches, and executives about their experiences in the NFL, how players grapple was speaking out in the next man-up culture of football. I couldn't sit around and not do anything about what was going on in our country, at least addressed it from a perspective that I could make, have some impact in.

To diverse coaches and executives who have broken through race-based glass ceilings, to others who never got their shop. You realize that no matter what you do, sometimes it's not enough. I'm not going to let someone else determine my happiness. We'll explore how the league, in a group of mostly white billionaire owners, have historically failed to support diversity and how they appear set to only continue to fall short. At the end of the day, these 32 billionaires, they're the ones who have to say, yes, we're doing it. The NFL is one of the most visible, profitable, and influential businesses in America.

If the league doesn't reflect diversity and inclusion, and it hasn't for quite some time, it permeates throughout the rest of the country. That won't change unless we continue to talk about it. We start by diving into the history of the game and where football stands within the movement towards a more equal society. Welcome to Between the Lines, Episode 1, the long history of football and race.