The Athletic Hockey Show - How To Fix: New York Rangers

Episode Date: August 3, 2026

Just two years removed from winning the Presidents’ Trophy as the best team in the NHL, the underachieving New York Rangers have missed the playoffs the past two seasons, even with building blocks Igor Shesterkin, Mika Zibanejad and Adam Fox in place. Mark Lazerus welcomes Peter Baugh and Vince Mercogliano to discuss the Rangers’ offseason, including drafting Albert Smits fifth overall, trading Vincent Trochek and acquiring Pavel Dorofeyev and Joonas Korpisalo, as New York looks to return to the playoffs and avoid sending another “letter” to their long-suffering fans.Host: Mark LazerusWith: Peter Baugh and Vince MercoglianoExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Jeff DometWatch full episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowJoin our Discord Server: https://discord.gg/VTm9VjkFSubscribe to The Athletic: https://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Hello and welcome to the Athletic Hockey Show. I am Mark Lazarus with another edition of How to Fix. This is our summer series checking in on 10 underachieving. That's a nice way to put in teams, who are desperately trying to get themselves back into the playoff conversation. Today, we take a closer look at the New York, one Stanley Cup in 86 years Rangers.

I'm joined by Peter Baugh and Vince Mercagliano in New York. Guys, the Rangers had 77 points last season, finished dead last in the Metro, third last overall in the NHL. They are two years removed from a president's trophy. Their second conference final in three years. It's kind of amazing how fast things fell apart. And here's the thing.

I still don't know what the New York Rangers are. They made I think eight trades and five signings this offseason already. I have no idea what they are, what they think they are, and what they think they're going to be. So let's start there. What's the goal this year for the Rangers? I guess I'll start, Peter. Yeah, you go for it.

The best way to put it, Peter and I did a story last week where we talked to a few executives and scouts and people around the league to get a feel for what they make of the changes the Rangers have made. And the way I think multiple people put it is they're trying to thread the needle. And it's a difficult thing to do, right? They're clearly trying to win now. I think Chris Drury feels a certain level of pressure to win now after missing the playoffs in back-to-back years.

And he kind of dismantled that team that won the president. trophy in 23, 24 rather quickly and initially did not have a whole lot to show for it. Like they got rid of a lot of guys. They didn't bring a whole lot back, at least not pieces that were helping the NHL roster. And so I think that he's feeling the pressure to get things heading in the back in the right direction. That's why they framed it as a retool, not a rebuild. But at the same time, there's a clear effort to get younger as well. I think that's why you saw them target a guy like Pavel Dora Faev, a 25-year-old winger with a proven scoring track record. My understanding is that a lot of the things that they've tried to do this offseason,

and most of the moves that they have made, they've added a few prospects, they had the number five overall pick in Albert Smith's, nine total draft picks in this past draft from a few weeks ago. They're trying to simultaneously get more competitive in the short term while also positioning themselves to be more sustainable and have some younger pieces kind of working into the mix for the long term as well. Now, it's a hard needle to thread. Like, I think there's legitimate questions about where they're at. I think they've raised the floor of this roster, but I think Peter and I both still question how high the ceiling is. But essentially, that's my read on the

situation. They certainly want to be more competitive this coming season, but they're also trying to not set themselves up to fall off a cliff in a couple of years as well. Peter, how much of this is almost like a tail wagging the dog situation where you bring in Mike Sullivan, who is not a rebuilt coach. He is not a, let's go, let's tear it down to the studs coach. And since they have Mike Sullivan, the guy, they wanted to be head coach, they feel like they have to try to get competitive as quickly as possible. How much of it is just, you're in New York, you can't rebuild forever. They just had the letter a handful of years ago.

What's, what's, I mean, I know the front office of the Rangers doesn't talk to anybody, but what do you think is in their mindset right now on why they're trying to kind of do this on the fly? And you said the letter a few years ago. They also had the one earlier this year in which they said that they were going to retool and focus on infusing young talent while building around their core. Kind of like Vince said, the threat, the needle approach. Yeah, I think it certainly feels like this is a team that is going to be more competitive, but maybe lacks the ceiling. And also will probably at some point, if it's going to take the leap to being as competitive as New York. wants and envisions and and hired Mike Sullivan to be, they're going to need to find a way to get

a big fish. And that's one thing that this organization, it feels like for, for years has been trying to position themselves to do. Like you looked at last or this, this summer, they had, they positioned themselves to have a ton of cab space, but there were no, none of the McDavid's, Eichols, CapriZogs, none of those guys made it to free agency. So it's hard to say exactly what the long-term plan is, but it certainly feels like this is still, this team that they're building doesn't make a ton of long-term sense unless they are able to bearing in a superstar-level guy or develop one internally. And I think the front office is clearly counting on hoping for, praying for a way to at some point do that. I think we have to start then with Pavel Dorefia,

who was the biggest fish that they were able to land, and he's a really good player. 25-year-old sniper, very productive in Vegas. He was not the guy in Vegas, though. He was a complimentary piece when you have Jack Eichel and Mark Stone and Mitch Marner. Do you, are the Rangers confident, Vince, that that Dorothea can come in and be basically the number one player on this team among this forward group? Are they confident in that?

I don't know if I would go that far, but they're in some ways banking on it, at least for this coming season. It's interesting because in some ways, I do think he's a good. exactly the type of player that they should be targeting. You know, they've spent years going after guys that are like in their 30s and maybe don't have that many prime years left. It's what they did with J.T. Miller a couple of years ago. So going for a 25-year-old guy who has a couple 30-plus goal seasons on his resume and lit it

up in the playoffs this year, that's exactly the type of player the Rangers need to bring in. The contract is seven years, but it only takes him to 32 years old. So presumably you just bought all of his prime years. And $11 million may look like a lot today, but I do think with the right. and cap. It's probably not as crazy as some people initially thought when they, when they first saw the numbers. So they're rolling the dice on this guy and they're certainly banking on it. I don't think it's a bad bet to make. But to your point, Mark, ultimately for the Rangers to get to the promised land, you know, where would you rank Dorfayev as far as Vegas's top forwards? Like

fourth maybe, obviously behind Eichol and Marner, probably behind Mark Stone. So I think what the Rangers need, you know, they got Mika Zabanajad as their number one center right now. Alexei Lafranier and Gaye Perrault, have showed some promise, especially at the end of the season. You can envision how they fill in, let's say, their third, fourth, fifth best forwards. The problem is they need those one, two guys. And if Dorofaev is not that, which people we've talked to think he's good, he's got a really elite skill in scoring, which is expensive and hard to find. But, you know, do you have play drivers at the top of your lineup is ultimately what the Rangers

they're going to need. I'd argue they need at least one more top six to really be a viable contender. They might even need two more because ultimately, as the Banajad and Miller, who are both going to be 33 this season, as they age, like, you're going to need a number one center. And they don't have anybody coming through the system right now that profiles as that. You know, that's where I think push will come to shove for this team. Dorfayev should be a nice piece. But if he's your number one forward, is that really a championship caliber team? Probably not. So they still need to fill I think a spot or two in front of him and the rest of that forward core. Yeah, and that number one center is going to have to come from without because they're not trying to get a top five pick where you can get a Conorberd or a Leo Carlson or a Macklin Celebrini.

They're trying to do it the much harder way. They're going to be where Pittsburgh is going to be in a couple of years when Sidney Crosby finally hangs it up where they don't have an obvious era parent. Peter, at the end of last season, you know, I don't get to see as much of the ranges I like. I'm a Western conference guy. But Gaye Perra was on that top line, I think, with J.T. Miller, with Megas Zabanajad and Alexia Lefrenier. And they look pretty good. And Perrault is only 21 years old. He's a good, promising young player for the Rangers.

Does he automatically lose that spot to Dorofiev? Because you want Dorofiev to just come out of the gate hot? Or is it possible that Dorofia slots in with J.T. Miller? I think they're different players. And you could maybe even, because Dorfaev can play both wings, there's a world in which they could play together. Because the thing that Perrault can do, Barrow has a skill that the Rangers desperately need in their top six,

which is that he can get elite players the puck in scoring areas. So they sign Oliver Bjorkstrand. That guy is a shooter. That guy shoots the puck a lot. He shot the puck a lot in Columbus. In his best years, he's scoring upper 20s and goals. But he needs someone to get him the puck. Gabe Perrault can do that.

So I think the Rangers know the importance of Perot, and he showed enough at the end of last season to have a top six role. Will that be exactly with Zabandajad? I don't know. Maybe he plays with Miller, but I think he's going to get top six minutes, and I think he's going to have a big role in the power player, or at least should in my opinion.

Maybe you do Lafranier with Dorfayev and Zabanajad, but I think Perra is going to get plenty of opportunity, and I don't think the Dorofafei of signing, trade and subsequent signing changes the outlook on Perra's season in my eyes. It's funny. While you were talking just now, I googled Alexei Lefrenia, because I want to see how old he was. He's 24.

He is still just 24 years old. It feels like we've been talking about guy forever. He's kind of settled into this like, you know, a couple of years ago, he thought, oh, maybe he's breaking out. Maybe he's taking that like Nathan McKinnon fourth year leap. He's kind of a 20, 25, 65, 60 points maybe. Is there any hope still on this, in this organization that maybe a guy like Dorothea can bring out more in him and help him reach another level? Or is there just a comfort level that he is a pretty good second line caliber winger who's going to be productive but not super productive. I think the important thing to note with him, and I think this has been

part of the Rangers calculus in the last number of months, they, to a certain degree with the entire roster, gauged the market around the trade deadline after they sent out that letter. It was basically like, we're curious to hear what teams would offer for pretty much anybody on our roster. And I think that Lafranier was somewhat on the table for a little while. But he finished the season really strong. He led the team. I believe it was 28 points in their final 27 games.

It was, to your point mark, while playing on that top line with Perrault and Zabanajad. but it felt like he took off. I mean, I've covered him for all, I think, six now of his seasons in New York. And that might have been the best stretch we've seen. Now, it was at the end of the season. They were out of the playoff race. The letter was out. It was largely meaningless hockey.

But I think they felt like he gained some positive momentum. And the sense that I got going into this summer is that they kind of pulled him off the table and that they felt like, you know what, we need playmaking forwards. We have one who still might have more to give. and we want to see what happens if we ride this momentum into the new season. So I think they're hoping that he can pop and turn into more than what the point production has suggested. I think he's topped out around 57 points in a couple different seasons.

But what we saw at the end of the season at least inspired some hope that maybe he'll creep more into that 60, 70 point range, especially because moving forward, he's probably going to be on their top power play unit, which is an opportunity he really didn't get for the early portion of his career when they had Panarin and all these other guys occupying those spots. Yeah, I think the power play can't be, that can't be stressed enough. And it was a big point of consternation among fans at points that wanted him on the top power play. And look, there were stretches where I would say Lafranier's five-on-five plate didn't warrant him being on the power play. But I think there are a number of factors, too, of with, he played a lot with

Panarin. And I think to some degree when when Panarin was gone, when Paneran was traded, like he kind of had to do stuff more on his own rather than deferring as much, which in a way was that added responsibility led potentially to him playing better hockey. Because like Vince said, he finished the year really strong and has put himself in position where he's probably going to get added power play time. And so I think if you're looking at total output in terms of points, I would say this year he probably has a career high. I don't know if the player itself is going to change as much as just the

point production because of usage. And the opportunity. Yeah. Yeah. Where does Will Cooley fit in all this? Because he was a promising young player. He was a, everyone was always talking about someone's going to offer shoot him last summer. And, you know, he, you know, the Rangers bring in, what, Oliver Bjork Strand, who's fine.

Does Bjork Strand kind of slot into that, that, that, that, that sixth spot in the top six, that last spot and put Cooley maybe in a better position for him? Maybe he's not much more than the third liner. Is that, is that where his ceiling is? I think that's the plan. to start, but I will say this. I had a story come out on Wednesday morning that basically reported what I've been hearing, and that's that the Rangers are still in the market for another forward. I think the ideal scenario for them would be fined away. Now, it's not going to be easy. They depleted a lot of the assets they had to trade. They've given up three first round picks

already this offseason. They use their biggest trade chip in Vincent Trocheck and that deal with Utah. So it's not like they have a whole lot to offer right now. But I think there's, they would, they understand and recognize, I'll say, that the forward group, especially the top six, needs more firepower. And so I think in an ideal world, they would love to get another top six forward, which would then kind of create a third line of Cooley, Noah Labba, who had a fairly encouraging rookie season last year and Bjork Strand. Like, I think if the pieces fell into place the way they'd like them, that would be their third line. If it doesn't materialize, then I do think Bjork Strand probably plays in the top six. You know, he's probably the number six guy in that

scenario because Cooley was really effective a couple years ago when they consistently played him on the third line. Last year, they more so played him in the top six. His impact diminished. The responsibility as far as matchups and all that, I think kind of wore on him a little bit more. To me, he's a really good third liner, but if you're asking him to play in your top six, you might be overexposing a little bit. So I think in an ideal scenario, they would have him on the third line. In the interest of transparency here, we're recording this in July. So there might have been a move by the time this comes out.

So forgive us for that. This is a how to fix series, so hindsight does not fix anything. But did the Rangers get enough for Vincent Trocheck? Because it feels like his value only dropped the more they waited. Getting Sean Dersey and Cole Boduan and a third round pick. We thought that Trocheque was going to get like a haul from like a Minnesota or something. Rangers didn't get a haul. They lost one of their most important forwards and didn't get really anybody to replace him.

Was that a failure? Well, the real question, it comes down to your evaluation of Cole Boduan. We've talked to people who like him a lot. It seems universally like people view him as an extremely hardworking guy who at the very least is going to carve out a role in the NHL because he's not going to let himself not find a role. then it. Hard work doesn't get you 30 goals. Hard work doesn't get you 30 goals. And so the question is essentially, like, is this guy a, does he find a way to have top six upside? That's a lot to ask of him. If he's a third line center, I think you look at this trade of you get a top four defenseman and a third line center for an aging second line center. Like that's not a bad return by any means. The Reinders had a really high ask at the deadline. They, I think, it's possible scared some teams away at the deadline. Like we reported at the time, Michael Russo, that the wild were kind of faded as a suitor because of how high the ask was on Trochex.

So it's hard to know exactly what they would have gotten, have they moved them at the deadline. But when you just look at like the value they got back for a second line center who's 33 years old, I don't think this is an atrocious return. But yeah, I think when you set the bar as high as they did probably to get him at the deadline. Maybe you you set yourself up to have some level of disappointment. But the fact of the matter is it's going to come down to Bauduan. That's how we're going to evaluate this trade. Because Dersie, you kind of know what you're getting. This is a guy you can play on the right side, who can run a

second power play, who's a puck moving deep, all of which they desperately need. But the prospect is what's going to make this trade either a win or kind of one that you look back and say, man, we should have gotten more for Binsett Trojan. Yeah, I would just, I totally agree on that point. Like what he becomes is what makes or breaks this deal. If he ends up being a second line center, it's a home run. If he's a fourth line center, you know, maybe you don't look at it as positively. If it's a third line, I agree with Peter. That's probably a fair value. But last thing I would note, it goes back to this whole retool versus rebuild thing. The Rangers weren't interested in a full-blown rebuild. And my understanding is that the reason they held him at the deadline is because most of

the offers were more futures related, more about draft picks and pieces that were further away. And what the Rangers prioritized, which we saw come to fruition, was getting players who could help sooner than later. And that's what they wanted. They didn't want to just trade him away for a first round pick or even a couple first round picks. I think they wanted players that they felt like would impact the roster, if not immediately, then very soon. And ultimately, they get a package that at least has a couple pieces that you do expect will play for them at some point soon. Which gets into kind of a philosophical debate. I remember one person we talked to for the story where we pulled scouts and executives said he kind of was like, I would have rather just gotten

a more futures-based package and get one really good prospect back rather than a okay prospect and an okay player. And I think the Rangers probably had some offers on the table with prospects, maybe not the level that they wanted at the deadline. But like Vince was saying, these teams that were inquiring about him at the deadline were teams that were trying to make the playoffs and weren't going to pull a good player off their roster to make that happen. Yeah. That's the risk. That's the risk you run when you, you know, everything gets out in this league. Everyone's so gossipy in this league that when it's out there that the asking price is so high, and we've been talking about it for months. And then you get just like a, yeah, a probably reasonable trade,

but nowhere near what that expectation was. It's hard to look at it as a big win for the Rangers when Rangers fans had come to expect, well, at least we're getting something big for Trocheck. And then maybe they did and maybe they didn't. So we'll see. Big piece of that was Sean Dersie. So let's get into the defense a little bit here. Top pairing, very good. Ladislav Gavakov and Adam Fox, okay, no problem there. Brand new second pairing probably in Marcus Pedersen and Sean Dersie. How do you guys think the defense really shapes up here?

I actually really like the decor. I think if you look at the Metro Division right now, I mean, I think Carolina will give them the top decor, like they just won the Stanley Cup, Jacob Slavin's awesome, Keandre Miller is great. Shane Gostas Speer ran the power play. But I think other than that, if you look at the Metro Division, and this decor can stack up with most teams.

And if the Rangers take a step forward and find their way into one of the Metro Division playoff spots, it's going to be because this decor not only is way better defensively than last year's, but also has more puck movers that can put some of the forwards in position to score and get out of the defensive zone. Because they got hemmed in a lot in their defensive zone last year. So I think that the decor is the farthest thing from an issue for, for this, this Rangers roster. The bigger questions, I guess, are what they gave up to, to build this decor and was now the right time to trade a future first-round pick for Marcus

Patterson. But on paper, to me, it looks like a solid decor. Yeah, it's definitely the biggest area of improvement, I would say, you know, the forward group, you could look at where they started last season. They basically have swapped out Panarin and Trocheque for Dorofaev and Bjork Strand. So I think you could argue maybe the forward group isn't as talented. It's certainly not as dynamic now as it had been. And even in the past, it wasn't productive enough. So the forward group is where the questions are. The decor undoubtedly has improved because you add a second pair of Pedersen and Dersie,

which essentially makes the pair that finished last season kind of being used as their number two in Schneider and Matthew Robertson. Now that's their number three. So everybody gets moved down to peg. The lineup feels a lot longer. And lastly, you know, they use them. number five pick on Albert Smith's, which pretty much every scout, Peter and I talked to, thought he was the most NHL-ready defenseman in the class. I know Corey Promin in particular is

really high on him. I think he had him as like the second or best, second or third best prospect in the entire draft. And Smith's is coming. So now you've got Fox, Gavrokov, Dersie, Petterson, Smith should maybe not start the season in the NHL, but I think get there at some point this season. So the decor, especially if Smith turns into a really quality player, you got to feel good about the spot they're in. It's definitely their most improved position group. So two years ago, the Rangers were on top of the conference, and Adam Fox was one of the best defensemen in the world, universally hailed as such. Four nations happens. His reputation took a hit there. He's left off of Team USA for Milan. Some people still swear that Adam Fox is one of the

three or four best defensemen in the league. Some people think he fell off of a cliff. What's the reality there? And to make this Rangers team great again, how does he need to get back to that level he was at a couple years ago. I think he's still really good. I think he's still a top 10 defenseman in the league. So where does this narrative come from then? I think four nations, the way that tournament went, which was a small sample size, and then the fact that he got left off the Olympic team, that all contributed to it. And I know the US won gold, but I still would have had, if I were to redo that roster, I would have had him over Noah Hanifin. Noah, Hanifin, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Like, it's not like, like, like, I was,

bottom Fox can do a lot of things. And maybe he isn't putting up quite as, like Vince and I have talked about, you've said Vince that there are points where maybe he doesn't jump off the ice when you're watching the way he did with some of the plays he made at his Norris year and stuff like that. But his underlying numbers are still sparkling. They're still really good. He can still play in all different situations. And I think he still makes up a lot of plays and sets up a lot of people. So I have since coming to New York became a pretty big Adam Fox defender. I don't think he's in the top, top tier with McCar, Hughes, and I guess you could put Werensky in there now. But I think he's in that second grouping of truly elite number 1D that you can win with.

Yeah. And you think about the Team USA thing like, you know, obviously I think any of us would take Hughes or Rorinsky ahead of him. And those are going to be the guys they rely on for point production and puck moving and power play and things of that nature. So I think in some ways you could say, okay, well, Fox isn't going to get one of those roles. So maybe it makes sense to go in another direction if you're really thinking role specific. But to me, it's hard not to have him in the top 10 conversation. I mean, in theory, there's 32 number one defenseman in the league. How many would you take over Adam Fox?

Who's underlying analytics still remain, you know, outstanding, highly productive. Is he the biggest, the fastest, the strongest? Like, doesn't check those boxes. but he thinks the game as well as anybody. And, I mean, to me, among the least of the Rangers' problems. Like, E. Gorses-Serkin, I'm sure we're going to talk about him, he's the biggest reason the Rangers have a chance to win their most important player. But Fox is a clear number two, and I think one of the last guys you should be worrying about.

Yeah, I think there's the way that Quinn Hughes and Kalmikar control a game and Zach Wrenski control a game from the back end with their just speed and skill and grace and dominance, it's almost warped people's views of what a number one defense should look like. Adam Fox is what a number one defenseman should look like for the last 30 years, right? A really, really solid guy who's never out of position who can move the puck, who does have good offensive instincts. He might not be the burner that some of these guys are. But man, I can't think there's too many teams that would turn down having Adam Fox on their team. No way. Yeah, I think probably the reason that maybe there's been all this discourse is because the Rangers have

struggled and because of the team USA stuff. I think those are the only two reasons. I think if the Rangers had stayed a playoff team the past two seasons, which Adam Fox, other than the fact that he got hurt, did nothing to hurt their chances of make the playoffs. And if he had been on Team USA, I don't think anyone would be talking about this. He missed some time with injury this season too. But like, I think he finished pretty strong. I remember having a conversation with him at the end of the year. I think he had been really disappointed for a stretch between the team losing and him feeling like he lost the momentum. But like early in the season, he played really well. And at the end of the season he played really well. So I think he showed that he still has a game.

All right. Vince, you mentioned Igor Chesterkin. He is perhaps the number one reason that they feel they have to go for it because they have the best goalie in the world, or at least a guy who's in that conversation in the middle of his biggest contract. What's happening behind him? Jonathan Quick is no longer there. Yonis Corpusalo, fine, I guess. Is there anyone that's going to threaten Corpus Hollow for that number two spot? Well, Dylan Garand would be the guy. He's a prospect the Rangers drafted in 2020, I believe, in the fourth round, who's been biting his time and waiting for his opportunity. He's been with their H.L. Hartford affiliate for a number of years now. It's had some really good seasons. A few years ago when they actually made the playoffs,

he was really, really good for them. Finally got his NHL opportunity last year. Only three starts, but lights out. I think he had a 946 save percentage. And so people were starting to wonder, is this guy finally going to get his chance to be the number, two now that Quick has retired. I think Peter and I both felt like the Rangers would bring in some kind of veteran competition. The fact that they actually gave up assets, albeit, you know, kind of minor assets, a fourth round pick and a middling prospect, but they gave up assets to get Corpusallo. That tells you they probably view him as the slight favorite, although what we've heard is that they're looking at it as a trainee camp competition. So Corpusallo and Garand will both

have an opportunity to win the job. The tricky part here with God, Garand is if you're the Rangers, do you really want to expose him to waivers, which you would have to do to send him to the AHL? There's a lot of teams out there that need goalies. And this is, you know, one of the better goalies in the AHL for the last few years. So like, are you going to take that risk? If I were them, I wouldn't want to do that. But you're also don't think they're going to carry three goalies. So I do think it's going to be interesting to see how that all plays out. But obviously, Igor's the guy and, you know, he's going to get the vast majority of the starts. I actually would be curious if more teams this year do carry three goalies, just with the increase in cap space and the fact that a lot of teams have this extra space.

I'm not saying the Rangers will, but it does intrigue me because on paper to me, I view, I know the Rangers are framing this as a competition and they want both goalies to come into camp preparing that way. But to me, if you're paying a goalie $3 million and trading a mid-round pick firm, like that's the guy you're counting on being your backup. And so they're either going to have to carry three goalies, make Garand the backup, and kind of say are bad on the Corpus Allo edition, or you risk sending him to the miners. Or I guess you could try and find a trade. You could also, I mean, eating $3 million or burying him in the miners or risking.

True. If you like the other guy, if he's having an amazing camp in preseason, see a Yonist. We can afford that we're the New York Rangers. I don't think that's a huge concern, but it is when you give up assets, you usually are penciling them in for a spot. So let's look at the Metro Division as a whole here. The Metro is kind of underwhelming, especially compared to the Atlantic and the Central. It's not nearly as bad as the Pacific. But, you know, you got this defending Stanley Cup champions and the hurricanes.

The Penguins and the Flyers, we don't really know what they're going to be. They're so up and down. Washington seems to be kind of loading up going for it. Columbus is Columbus. The Islanders are the Islanders and the Devils are the Devils. The Rangers were in last place in this division by a 10, 10 solid points behind the Devils. Can they make some headway here?

And is this division open enough where, I mean, they've got a number one goalie. They've got a number one defenseman. They've got a number one winger. This is not like a team starting from scratch. Can they get themselves back into the conversation? I think they can. You know, the upside is where we're going to, I think, have some questions.

We figure Carolina is going to be the team to beat in the division. And I feel like, and Peter and I, based on our conversations, I think probably agrees that the capitals made some really big gains. And I would favor them slightly as the number two team in the division. But I think that the third and fourth spot in the division is pretty much up for grabs. Pittsburgh and Philly both made the playoffs last year. But I don't know if anybody is convinced that they are like have staying power at this stage or they're both kind of in weird spots. Philly is getting younger. Pittsburgh getting younger, but also still has Crosby and Malkins.

so where are they at with all that? I can see the Rangers being a team that hangs around in the race on that playoff fringe, maybe a wild card, maybe they take third in the division. I wouldn't be shocked if they made the playoffs. I think they've improved enough to at least be in that conversation. I just don't know how far they could take it. You know, if they go into the first round as an underdog against a higher seed, I would have serious questions about their ability to match up with the best teams in the league.

but I do think they've positioned themselves where at least on paper, they're interesting enough to think they could hang around in the race. Yeah, to me, I view it as the Atlantic is going to have five playoff teams. I think both wild cards probably come out of the Atlantic just based on how the rosters all look on paper. But then you have Carolina, who you can pencil in. I think Washington's going to be good. But then I, yeah, I second everything Vince said. And even a team like Pittsburgh to me, if you look at on paper,

they lose Anthony Manta, who's a 33 goal score. They lose Ryan Shea. They trade away Parker Woherspoon. Like they've kind of on paper taken a step back and maybe they're counting on internal development. But I think there are, there's plenty of room for for other teams to get involved, whether that's the Devils, whether that's the Blue Jackets, who only missed the playoffs by a couple points last year and whether that's the Rangers.

If the Flyers had gotten Leo Carlson, maybe it's a little bit of a different conversation. But the Rangers are, I'm sure, thankful they didn't go down that. road. I wouldn't be so sure that five teams come out of the Atlantic just because they're going to be beating each other up all year where there's going to be some, you know, a few cupcakes on the schedule in the metro. Sometimes it works out that way where the five best teams are in one division, but you still get that four four split just because there's possible. There's not a lot, not enough pushovers on that schedule. So should be interesting. Rangers, the devils are a team. Even the islanders, like all of these teams, it wouldn't surprise me if any of them finished third

in the division, to be honest. They can all go way up or they can all go way down. it's really awesome at this point. Metro's going to be fascinating. Yeah, none of the teams are trying to tank by any means. I think if on paper the one may be closest to that is Pittsburgh, but they just finished second in the division last year, so we can't say them, and they brought back Malcon, and there's Sidney Crosby's still going to be good.

So, I mean, yeah, it's going to be interesting. I'll be curious with Philly if Martone takes another step, how they look in year two under target. Like, does Mitchcove come back better? It's, I'm with this. the middle of the division is a big jumble. Say this about the Rangers, they're never boring. Thank you, Vince and Peter.

We'll keep an eye on all your work this summer. And thanks also to producer Jeff. And to you for watching and listening to this episode of The Athletic Hockey Show, Sean Gentilly and Jeremy Rutherford are up next. They're going to try to fix the St. Louis Blues. That episode comes out on Wednesday, and we'll see you then on the Athletic Hockey Show.