The Athletic Hockey Show - How to fix the Detroit Red Wings

Episode Date: August 11, 2025

Has the legendary Steve Yzerman run out of magic as a General Manager? Will the motor city fanbase call for his job? Or is this coming season, the year that the Red Wings finally snap their 9 year playoff drought? Max Bultman joins Sean McIndoe to find out if the Red Wings still need fixing, or will John Gibson be enough to finally get this team back into the top 8 of the Eastern Conference?We want to hear from you! Please fill out our listener survey: https://forms.gle/CDbF51vAPngm2ZYS6Host: Sean McIndoeWith: Max BultmanExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Jeff Domet Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. It's the Athletic Hockey Show. I am Sean McIndoo. Gentilly and I have been fixing NHL teams this summer. We have already fixed the Sabres with Matt Fairburn. We fix the Penguins with Josh O. It's my turn again. This time, we're going to be fixing Steve Eiserman's Detroit Red Wings,

who last made the playoffs nine years ago. Max Baldwin is here to try to solve the wings, struggles, and stalled rebuild. How's it going, Max? Good, yeah. I mean, like you said, nine years at this, I think we should be able to tackle this in an hour. Yeah.

No, I mean, it'll be, it'll be less than that, I think. And Steve Eisenman, if you're listening, take notes. Okay, so let me start with maybe the, the big overall question, do the Red Wings need fixing? Has this gone off the rails the way that it clearly has in Buffalo and Pittsburgh and other places?

Is this as big a mess as it looks like from the outside? Or is this just a rebuild and sometimes rebuilds take a little while and everybody just needs to settle down and be a bit more patient and let the Eizer plan do its magic? I don't think it's either of quite those two things.

I think there's a segment of the fan base that would want you to believe it's the latter, right? That it's just a this takes time thing. I don't really believe that. Although I do think that this is a big year to decide whether or not it's really the former either. Because I think if they take the right steps this year, they have a couple young players who are right on the cusp that I think are really key in deciding just how big of a task still lies ahead of the Red Wings. where I'm at on this team is that I think that what they have in the system on the way can get them to being a playoff team and maybe even a consistent playoff team. But I don't think it can get them as currently constructed to being a serious Stanley Cup threat. And so that I think is where the fix lies is if the payoff of this rebuild, like you said, nine long years outside the playoffs could be 10 after this year.

If the payoff for all of that is a bunch of first round exits or second round exits, I don't know that fans are going to feel like. that was worth it. And it feels right now like there's real potential that that's where this ends, if they aren't able to ratchet up one step higher, get a little more star talent. Find kind of a higher ceiling for the ultimate rebuild payoff here. I'm going to just ignore the fact that that felt a little targeted, talking about a rebuilding team that just has a bunch of first-round exits. I'm going to skip that. And I'm going to, instead, I'm going to, I was thinking about this when I was thinking about this show. I feel like if we had done this a year ago,

you wouldn't be here because we wouldn't be talking about the Red Wings as a fix. In the 2020-23-24 season, the Red Wings end up tied with the Washington Capitals, if I remember right, for the last playoff spot. They miss on the tiebreaker. But essentially, they're one point away from being a playoff team. And this time last summer, if you looked around the Atlantic and the Eastern Conference, you would have said, okay, we've got Detroit and Ottawa and Buffalo are all kind of fighting for that last spot maybe. Montreal, forget about them.

They're a mile away. And you look over at the metro and you go, there's not too much there to worry about that. The path is right there. And in the year since, we've seen Buffalo take another step back. We dealt with that earlier in the summer. Ottawa takes that step that Detroit has been wanting to take and now looks like a pretty solid playoff team. And the Montreal Canadians blow past the Red Wings. The Columbus Blue Jackets blow past the Red Wings.

How much frustration is there? You touched on it a little bit with the fan base. is Steve Eisenman still the golden boy because of all the history there? Or is it's frustration kicking in? Because I don't know too many original six markets where you can see something like that happen. And everyone throws your hands up and says, oh, well, hockey's hard. We're okay with this. Right.

So I would say it's just a very fractured fan base. And I think increasingly so. There have always been some who have, especially for the last three or four years, some who have been kind of, hey, this isn't going well and people need to pay attention to it. There have been others who I think blindly, delusionally, this is 4D chess, you just don't understand the big picture. Those camps have always existed. And I think they're just kind of growing in polarization, right?

Like it's not 50-50. I would say it's probably more of like, actually, I did a fan survey. I could probably go pull the results of here while we're talking. I think it's definitely more in the belief camp still, but it's trending the other way. And that's why I kind of highlight this as a big season for the Red Wings. I think even if their ownership group still seems to have plenty of faith in Iserman, and I don't really have any reason to believe it's make or break in that sense for him.

I do think public perception-wise, if they were to miss again, I think that's a big hit. As we sit here right now, you talk about teams like Ottawa, Montreal, Columbus, right? Yeah, they pass to try to finish ahead of them in the standings. long-term outlook in terms of that big picture that we talked about at the open, I don't know that Ottawa and Montreal are really in a different tier from Detroit right now, right? It's just that they got to the playoffs first. And the playoffs, if that's the goal, then yeah, they lap them, right? But I don't think that is the goal for any of those teams, just getting it.

It was the goal last year, and they succeeded in Detroit, didn't. But if you're bucketing teams by championship likelihood in the next five, 10 years, I think all three of those teams are still in the same bucket. It was in Ottawa did make the leap last year to playoff team. And a big part of how they did it, yes, they had some young pieces in place. Yes, guys took steps forward. But they went out and they made a big trade for a goaltender. Here we are a year later.

The Red Wings did the same thing. I'm not going to say they're following the plan like they stole that from Ottawa because I don't think go get a goalie when you need a goalie is exactly. Rockets. Procuitary plan, yeah. Although there might be some people in Edmonton who would say, yeah. Talk to me about John Gibson. What problem does he fix? How much does he fix it?

How much should I be concerned when I look at his stats from the last several years with the Anaheim ducks? Yeah, it's an interesting question because the reputation on John Gibson certainly would make you think, all right, this is their Linus Allmark. boy, if you pull up a side by side on the numbers, it does not look a whole lot like Linus Allmark. Although last year I think the numbers actually saved percentage-wise were similar, but it was like double the number of games for Allmark. Gibson didn't play as much.

He had his bounce back, but it was in less than 30 games. Well, if he has to play less than 30 games for the Red Wings, then that's not going to go very well, right? So I think what they're hoping for is on talent, he's an upgrade. And I think on pedigree, if Detroit is indeed a better defensive team than Anaheim,

which you would like to think based on where the ducks were last year, but I don't know that you can say as a given, they didn't really upgrade their blue line in a huge way. You're banking a lot on internal improvement. If it's a better environment for Gibson, then that can be an upgrade. I don't think it will be as seismic an upgrade as Linus Allmark was. I watched Linus Allmark a few games last year,

certainly his games against the Red Wings. He was outstanding. He stole them at least one game. It was like a 48 save masterpiece from Linus Allmark. I don't see a ton of those from John Gibson. But what I think the Red Wings are going to hope for from him is they've had stretches of goaltending play over the last two, three years where they get a month of great from a guy and then six weeks of unplayable.

And it's often at the same time as their other guys either hurt or also going through one of those stretches. What they need is a guy who can ride more consistently, even if it's just 902 every single night. I think they would take that over 930 for a month, 860 for six weeks. And, you know, our, Gibson's fascinating to me because our buddy Jesse Granger, who I often refer to as the goalie whisperer, I feel like he and I have been having this debate for three years where I point at Gibson's stats and go, this guy's not good anymore. He hasn't been good in six or seven years. And Jesse goes, watch the game, nerd, and explains to me in his little goaltending ways. about why Gibson's actually a victim of a bad team in front of him.

And that if he ever went to a better team, he'd be fantastic. Now, I mean, we don't know that Detroit, as you say, is that better team significantly better than the ducks? I mean, somewhat, I think we'd grant. So, Max, you're obviously not a gold hender. Correct. We all know that. Yeah. But is how good does he have to be?

Like I know you said consistency. Yeah. Is this is, and how often does he have to be that? Because the thing with Gibson is all, not always, but for a few years it was he would start off well and then he would just fade down the stretch. And then last year, like you say, he didn't play that much. Did they go and get this guy to be a 60 start guy? Or is 40 starts going to be enough and then they fill in around that? I think the target would be 50.

They have Cam Talbot, who's a good tandem goaltender. But I think they asked a little too much of him, a little too many games of him last year. And I think if you got Cam Talbot for 30, 32, maybe even 35 games, he can be a really good tandem mate for John Gibson in that way. I don't think you need to ask 60 games of him. But I do think they're going to need more than 30. They're going to need more than 35. Like he probably needs to be more than 50-50 for this to go as well as they need it to be. And I think one of the issues kind of,

we're getting a little philosophical here with the Red Wings, but they can be, the phrases that McClellan has used, I think are intended to be kind of polite, but he's asked them to be mentally firmer, right? Effectively, he's saying, I need you to be mentally tougher.

I need you to not spiral when things go bad. And it's not that hard to understand where that would come from. This is a team that's missed the playoffs nine straight years. They're a team that has seen their season collapse in March, certainly the last two, depending on who you asked, the last three. and I think they do get the echoes of those when things start to go bad.

And goaltending is an area that can either bail you out of that and give you that confidence boost when that starts to happen, or it can make everything feel more real. You say I'm not a goalie. That's true. Here's an experience I did have. And that when I was in high school, my high school hockey team never won a game. And we were terrible. and the first game of my senior year,

we got a new goalie, and he let in the first two or three shots of the season, right? And mentally, right, you get yourself fired up, you're 17. I'm not saying that's anything like the NHL, but I'm just telling you like the psychology of what goaltending can do is when you see that happen, it tells you, okay, there's no help coming, right? And that can be demoralizing.

So that's a long way of saying, I think if John Gibson can come in and on a couple of nights where the Red Wings really needed when things aren't going bad. I think he still has all the talent needed to steal them a game or two and be that stopper. And that can make a massive difference. Just well-timed bailout games in those critical parts of year that have given them problems. March has been the biggest. If he can break a couple of those losing streaks before they get to four or five games by having a really great night when they need them to, that could be all the mental difference in the world

that they need. And they have talent on their team. They have a great power play. They have a good top six. you know, their young defensemen are young, but they are progressing really well. Sider is a really good player. Edvinson, I think, can take another step in him. Marco Casper, the young centerman broke out last year in a way that he can help their defense. He's a really complete player. They have these pieces, but I think they need to be in a position where the way of the world isn't on them. And so that's the biggest difference, I think a goal it can make.

As you were saying that, I was nodding along, and I'm thinking, you know what, that all sounds good. This is probably a team that needs to get off to a good start. Yes. And then I looked at the schedule. Montreal is the opener, then back to back against the Maple Leafs, then Florida, then Tampa, then Edmonton. Boy, if your goal is to not give up a bunch of goals early on, I don't love that opening. So now, the flip side is you should. shut down one or two of those teams and everybody is is thrown confetti but like is it is it too

simplistic to say like this team just can't be like one four and one after six games and chasing it uh again well and especially because where did their biggest boost come last year it's when todd mcclellan came in right one of the big sources of hope going into september for them is going to be well imagine you know that that that's a line prepared to hear it a lot imagine the red wings with a full season a full camp of todd mcclellan 95 the six point pace for for for the wings once cod mcclone came in and and that includes early on where they look kind of unbeatable then you know maybe it was a bit of a bounce but yeah that that is maybe their big offseason move happened midway through last season and and we're missing that and certainly

that's going to be a narrative right but if they get out to a one four and one start it gets a little tougher to sell right now i i do think it's a it's a tough schedule on paper sometimes we see early the year, those teams that know it's all about April anyway, they can struggle to play in October, struggle to really find who they are. So, you know, you're talking about Tampa, Florida. Like, those are teams that it's not impossible that the Red Wings catch those teams at the right time, right? You might prefer that to playing them in January, in March, in April even. So, but I do agree. They need a good start, especially they got off to a bad start last year and didn't really recover from it until the coaching change. Yep. And, and I'm looking, I should say, I believe, if

my math is right after that stretch, 14 of 16 against teams that were not in the playoffs last year. So we talked about 1-4-1 being a disaster for one-and-one. Suddenly, now you're looking at a schedule and it's getting good. And next thing you know, we're at the end of October and people like me are writing, how did we not see this coming pieces and people like you are going, dude, I tried to, I tried to tell you. We're going to try to stay on the positive side in the next segment.

And we've talked about Eisenman. We talked about Tom McClellan and John Gibson. We're going to talk about some of the skaters. And that's coming up in segment two. All right. We're back with Max. We are fixing the Detroit Red Wings who may or may not need to be fixed. I want to ask you about a guy that you mentioned briefly in the first segment,

Mordsideer. So Steve Eisenman comes in in 2019. Everybody is, he's the conquering hero. He's the best GM in the world from what he did in Tampa. We all figured he was coming back to Detroit. Here's the hometown hero. The very first draft, he picks this kid with bow tie. And everyone kind of goes, oh, that's a little bit off the board.

What's going on? And this sider looks great. And he looks like he's not just. great, but he looks like one of those great young defensemen that you put in, maybe not the Kail McCar class, but in like that Miro Heiskin and Rasmus Dallan, like this is the future of the league.

And I feel like in the last few years he has settled in as something not quite at that level. Which is, I mean, is that even a criticism of a young kid to say, oh, you know, you're not winning the Norris trophy. Well, okay, you know,

that doesn't mean he's not a number one defenseman, doesn't. But I guess that's part of my question is because it felt like early on Eisenman hit a home run on pick number one and there's your stud to build around. Do they still have that? And I guess can you be a Stanley Cup contender when Mosider's your best defense. I think you can. And the team that I often look at in that way is the Carolina Hurricanes, right? And if you told me that Mosider tops out as Jacob Slavin, I don't think anybody's going to be one bit sad about that.

And I think that's the kind of player he is. He plays in some years, the literal toughest minutes in the NHL. And it's always like top three, top four minutes in the NHL. So being able to put a guy like that over the boards, 25 minutes a night is an incredible asset. And the fact that he runs a top five power play in the NHL, like that tells you, right, there is, there is offense there. I don't know that the point totals are ever going to be, I mean, I know they're not going to be where Kilmacar is, right? But I don't think they're ever necessarily even going to be where Miro Heiskenon kind of lives. but I don't think they need that to be.

And I think they have other guys on the way. Axel Sandine Pelica is one of their top prospects right now. He may end up running the power play over time, and he may be the guy who puts up the flashier numbers. But Cider and Edvenson are the two guys who are going to carry the piano, right? Those are the guys you're going to count on for if you split them up like they have been under McClellan. You're going to have one of those two guys on the ice for 50 out of the 60 minutes in a game. You're going to feel really good about that.

And so I think, yes, Cider is still every bit of a number one defenseman. And I think that can be a viable way to build a contender, yes. We'll talk about the prospects at a second. But let's just put a pin in it because I asked the can you win with this guy question. And I'm sure every Red Wing fan knows what's coming next. Dylan Larkin, great player. We all like Dylan Larkin. Can you contend for a Stanley Cup when Dylan Larkin is your number one center or your best forward

or you're the most important guy you have up front? or is he a great number two who is being asked to be a number one? Well, I think about it in the tiers of centers, right? Like, Sean and Dom do their tiers every year. And I'm always curious where Larkin ranks in comparison to a couple specific guys who both do happen to play for teams that I would consider Sealing the Cup champions. One, again, to go back to Carolina is Sebastian Ajo. I think comparable players.

Another is on the Dallas Stars, Rope Hints. I think those are, that's a tier, right? And so if those guys are good enough to be number one centers, I don't see any reason why Dylan Larkin isn't good enough to be a number one center on a team of that caliber. The problem to me is not a can you win with Larkin? It's can you win in time for Larkin? Because he just turned 29. And by the time the Red Wings are where I think their prospects are where I think they're going to need to be to contend,

I think he's going to be 31 or 32. And I think Dill and Larkin's going to be a really good player at 31 or 32. But I do think that's where you start to have the question of, at 31 32 is he still that same caliber, that same tier to be your defining number one center? And that is the question. And I don't know the answer to that. That would concern me if I was the Red Wings. Now, I think Larkinson takes good care of his body. I think he definitely puts the work in. I think, you know, the speed has always been a defining factor and that can go as you age, but he's done a good job of rounding himself out. I think he's a smart player.

I think he is a responsible player. He can really shoot the puck. Mika Zabanajad was having really impactful seasons into his early 30s. And maybe that's another guy of that same kind of tier that you could point to. Was the one C on a president's trophy winner. So I see a path to it, but I do not think you can count that the certainty timing wise. I have no doubt you can win a Stanley Cup with Dylan Larkin as your top center. I just question if the Red Wings can do it in time where he'll still be that good.

A guy who's maybe in the same zone, not quite as old, but a couple years back and not locked in long, long term. Is Alex to Brinket a top six player the next time this team plays a game seven in the playoffs as a cup contender? Or is he a transition piece? It's a good question. because a year ago, I might have said the latter after his first year. I think it was his third straight year, I believe, or at least second straight, where he had it was like the exact same stat line, 27 goals, 65, 70 points. And you're like, okay, like he's a good player, but maybe the 40s were Chicago, right?

And then he had a year last year that was not just production-wise, but style of play-wise, something different. And there was, I mean, he's always been a hardworking, like, player, feisty player. but I just felt like I saw him in a new light where it's like, okay, this guy has a lot more down low to his game than I've given him credit for. He's always every once in a while surprised you by dropping the gloves and stuff, but it's also just winning stick battles. And he'll go in there and he'll bang bodies a little bit for a 5-7 guy, 5-8 guy.

So I'm now starting to come around to the idea that, yes, he can be. Now, it's probably more of a second-line scorer. Like he's probably not your top-line stalwart, which I don't know that they necessarily even need him to be. But I think if he's a guy who's giving you 30 goals, he's not afraid to go down low and battle for the puck back. He's playing a new role in the power play to adapt to allow their setup to work. He was playing that kind of retriever goal line role. I thought he was excellent in it.

So he's won me over as a guy who I do think, even once this deal expires, that you've got to really try to extend and keep around. So let's get optimistic here because as with most teams that have been out of the playoffs for a while, it's it's always the yes but yes we've missed the playoffs but the prospects are on the way the the wings have have ranked kind of anywhere from good to middle of the pack as far as that pipeline they have you know they've they've never been that Chicago style oh we tore it down so much and and now you know all up we're so flush with prospects but they've got some good young guys talk me through some of those guys who haven't made an impact at the NHL level yet that that might and that somebody like me on the outside should be aware of when I talk about oh you don't have enough pieces guys who could be coming in and becoming those pieces yeah for sure so the name that everyone I think is most familiar with is the one I mentioned earlier Axel Sandine Pelica right shot defenseman had close to record setting production as an under 20 defenseman in Sweden now I say close to record setting the record setter

didn't really amount to much. It's Niels Lundqvist. He's now in Dallas. And I always say that to people, not to, you know, rain on everybody's parade, but just to remind people that that is not a guarantee

of NHL success. I do think Sandine Pelica has the brain, the skill, and the competitiveness, I think, crucially, to be better than that was.

But I don't think he's going to be in the McCar, Hughes, even like Fox tier either. Like, I think there are some fans who have that expectation of him and I would caution against that. I look at a guy like Brandon Montour or Vince Dunn and say, if he can be that,

I think that's all you need him to be as a late teens pick, who's going to run your power play, who's going to play a second pair role, like a real role at five on five. I'm not talking about sheltered third pair, but it may start out that way and may start out as more of like a Shane Gossisbier kind of deployment. But I think he can become a guy who plays 20 minutes a night for you

because I think he's really smart and he competes hard. And I think that's the foundation of being able to play those kind of minutes, even as a 5-11 guy. he's a little sturdier. So he's the guy who I think most Redbings fans would tell you you're completely missing. I would actually have Nate Danielson, the center prospect, I think, maybe a little higher than him if I was ranking the prospects. And it's a little bit of a leap of faith there because the production-wise,

if you pull up Nate Danielson's Hockey DB page, he was the ninth overall pick in 2023. The production hasn't really told you that this is going to be a guy who's going to be a major difference maker in the NHL. And it may work out that way. You just don't know. But when I watch him, it just always feels like there's so much here. He's six to.

He skates well. He's smart. He's responsible. He has good hands. He could really make plays. I'd love to see him be able to shoot the puck just like score, I guess, a little more off. I don't think he doesn't have a hard shot. But I think everything's there to do that.

And I do wonder when you put him in the NHL, which could be as soon as this year, could be as soon as October, frankly. It wouldn't shock me if he has every bit as good a year as Marco Casper did this past season. And if the Red Wings have that, I think that's their best path to doing this, is that, yeah, Larkin's going to get older, but you're going to have two more centers in Danielson and Casper. And that is kind of how you get to where Dallas got is you merge these cores and your young guys are going into their prime, right? As your older guys are coming out of their prime and you find this right window and you're kind of in this contending space for that reason. Yeah, maybe it's, I don't know that it's obvious to everyone who Dallas's one sees have always been in the last couple years between hints between Wyatt Johnson, but when Joe Pavelski was there, right? You can even throw Tyler Sagan into that mix at times.

So I think that's the best case scenario for the Red Wings, and a lot of that hinges on Nate Danielson. If you just look at the production, you're probably not going to be sold that that's going to happen, and it may not. But he'd be the guy that I would say, if Danielson pops, that's the Red Wings' best path to this.

And then the other kind of more complimentary pieces are two wingers they've drafted that I think are just real playoff-style players. Carter Bear was their first round pick this past season. he's got the Achilles injury. It's going to take him some time. But a gritty player, really skilled player, really smart player. And Michael Brancig-neegard, 6-1, massive shot, probably the best shooter in their system. And a thick, physical player who I think is just going to be such a projectable

playoff type. If everything goes well, maybe he's a step below Matthew Nye's kind of thing, but it's that kind of role. If he's that, I think that's a huge piece too. So there's other players. It's a deep system. The goaltenders, I guess I have to talk about, too. I did want to ask about that because this is for years we've we've kind of heard from Wings fans that the gold ending of the future was there, which is always hard to judge. You never really know when it takes forever.

But it was interesting to me to see them go out and get a John Gibson who this doesn't plug that spot for the next five years. But it does it does act as a bit of a blocker. Are those guys still on the path to be legitimate starters? Is it going to be in Detroit? Are any of those guys maybe trade chips now where we've seen other teams move the Spencer Knights and De Bon Levy's and guys like that to get better right now? Is that an option for Steve Eisenman? I think that's an option.

I do think they still want Sebastian COSA to pan out for them, right? Like long term, you know, John Gibson has what, two years left on his deal. like here's how I foresee this going is that this year it's Gibson and Talbot and at some point one of those guys is going to be hurt and I think that's Kosas chance to come up and show what he can do and then next year it's Gibson and COSA and if things have gone according to plan then it's COSA's net for good after that but I think you're talking about seeing him I don't know five to 12 games this year 30 games next year and then if all goes well then he's your guy after that he had a really great start to last season and as the year when on it just tapered off and actually tapered into struggle by the end. And so I think that's part of the logic and like, well, you can't go into this season needing it to be COSA because of what you saw at the end. So you better go get someone like Gibson. And if COSA is great, that's okay.

He only has a year and a half on his deal and he'll need a veteran. And COSA will need a veteran mentor anyway. So that's, I think, where things stand with him. And I don't think there's any reason to give up on him. It's just they needed more time and, you know, they bought it. So with Augustine, I think the hype is huge right now. And the question everyone is going to have is he's a 6-1 goalie and is that where this is going. So you like your big athletic freak goleys and COSA is more that like really composed technical, mentally sound goalie.

But he's been nothing short of excellent everywhere he's been. He's been excellent at the world juniors. I would have loved to see what he looked like in the AH all this year. But once it was clear that COSA was going to be in Grand Rapids, I don't think anyone can fault Trey Augustine. for taking the net where it is at Michigan State and going to try to chase a national title. So those are certainly two really important prospects for them. I don't think there's any reason to panic on them.

Maybe a little reason for revisiting on COSA and hey, let's monitor this. And if a trade scenario becomes necessary, then it becomes necessary. But I think right now this is all still well within their comfort range. It's just taking time. And it's not that much farther off than Ascarov was, right? I mean, Ascarov got traded last year, but he only played 13 games.

So if you just don't trade him and you play him 12, 13 games in Detroit, he's not behind Askrov at all from that sense. Having a little bit too much goal-tending, not the worst problem that a rebuilding team can have. We will be back to wrap it up in segment three and when Max is going to tell me what Steve Eisenman should do over the coming weeks. Okay, we're back to wrap it up on fixing the Red Wings. Max, what now? What do we do between either, I don't even want to say now and opening night because we're at the stage where I think most teams are locked in.

What should we look for over the course of the season into the deadline and maybe even future off seasons? What does the roadmap back to contention look like? Because to bring it back to what you said at the start of the show, this is Detroit. This is Hockey Town. This is, there are markets in this league. We're just finishing 8th and crossing your fingers is probably enough. That doesn't fly in Detroit, I would assume. So what now?

What are the steps that need to happen between now and that moment where we all go, the wings are back? Well, I wouldn't rule out one more addition before the puck drops. Steve Eisenman kind of tease that at his post-free agency press conference. I think we all took that as like, oh, so in the next couple weeks then, and that obviously hasn't happened, but it hasn't really happened anywhere. So to the extent that there is a trade market right now, it's pretty limited. but it does happen to have some pieces where the Red Wings need it, which is top line left wing. Right now you start to handicap their lineup,

and there's a glaring hole on the top line left wing next to Dylan Larkin and Lucas Raymond. I don't know that the names out there are slam dunk fits, but I think Brian Rust, especially as we talk about the Red Wings and Dylan Larkin and Alex DeBringkitt's timeline, we can also probably mention Patrick Kane, right? Patrick Kane is not going to be here long, long term,

but if you want to win with him, And I suggest that you try to because he's helping you have a top five power play in the NHL, and he's a pretty fun player. He's got plenty of big moment magic left in him. Brian Russ fits that timeline very well. And it's cost dependent, right? Like, I mean, do you really want to give up a top top prospect for a guy who's into his 30s like Brian Rust is? I don't know that I would, but I think it's a name to watch because he's got Michigan roots.

So there's always a tie there. He's the exact style of player they need. He can score goals. but he's still gritty. He would be in the fight with guys. He's been a playoff type. Wouldn't shock me, and I wouldn't hate a move like that at the right price. The other one, I think, is the more pie in the sky.

Actually, there's two pie on the sky. One is Jason Robertson, which I'm not going to spend too much time on because I kind of just don't see it happening. I think in the end, he just makes too much sense to stay in Dallas. But the other is Kyle Connor. And as we talk about guys with Michigan roots, Kyle Connor is going into the last year of his contract in Winnipeg. I don't have any reason to believe Kyle Connor wants out of Winnipeg,

but the history is such that I don't think we should just dismiss the idea that he won't extend there. And if that's the case, after what we just saw in free agency, with nobody actually getting there, I think you have to jump the line and make an aggressive trade to go get him. He's the exact same timeline as Larkin and De Brinkett. He's the exact kind of superstar player that they haven't really found. And I really like Lucas Raymond. I think Lucas Raymond has the potential to score in that tier. but also you probably need more than one of the players that can score in that tier if you're talking about being a serious contender.

So if Kyle Connor, if there's any indication that he's not going to extend in Winnipeg, that's where the Red Wings, I think, can start to get aggressive and say, okay, we'll give you one of these top prospects in a first round pick, and we're going to get our guy, and we're going to extend them long term, and that's how we're going to do this. And then you have this nice blend of those late 20s guys and those early 20s guys and you have the ELC guys on the way. there's prospects that we didn't mention that are going to factor in, right? Antoni Johansson is a young right-shot defenseman that is still in Sweden, came over to Green Rapids at the end of last year and looked really impressive. Six foot four, skates, great, mean. That's a kind of like depth piece that Stanley Cup teams need on a third pair on an ELC. They've got guys like Carter Mazer and Amadeus Lombardi who have showed really well in Grand Rapids

that I think can come give you good depth scoring for really cheap. It's finding that star up at the top that can give. you just that extra little bit of scoring, that extra little bit of a player to lean on when things aren't going well. So it doesn't need to be Kyle Connor. I'm just identifying him because the circumstances there. But I think based on what we've seen with player acquisition, if you're Steve Eisenman, you kind of realize at this point, you're going to have to skip the line. It's not going to be enough to wait until July 1 because July 1 sometimes just doesn't come. All right. Well, thank you, Max. I got to tell you, I am feeling more optimistic after this episode

than I was after the Sabers episode. Well, that's always good. There's your faint phrase, Detroit fans, but there's always the sabers to, it could always be worse. Thank you very much to Max. Thank you for listening to The Athletic Hockey Show. Other Sean will be back.

He will wrap up our How to Fix series. He's got Kevin Kurz. They're going to try to make sense of the rebuild in Philadelphia on Wednesday. And then Sean and I return with Frankie Corrado with new shows in late September when NHL training camps get underway across North America. Have a great rest of your summer.