The Athletic Hockey Show - How to fix the Philadelphia Flyers

Episode Date: August 13, 2025

Sean Gentille digs into the continuing rebuild in Philadelphia, with Flyers beat writer Kevin Kurz. The guys discuss the addition of Rick Tocchet behind the bench, the goaltending and powerplay issues from last season, what the prospect pool looks like and how much longer the rebuild will continue in Philly, before the Flyers can once again be considered a contender in the NHL.We want to hear from you! Please fill out our listener survey: https://forms.gle/CDbF51vAPngm2ZYS6Host: Sean GentilleWith: Kevin KurzExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Jeff Domet Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. What up, what up? It's the athletic hockey show. Sean Gentilly here. We are in the midst of our summer series. I'm certain you folks have all listened to these already. I know we're well into it. How to fix some of the teams that were the worst in the league last season.

We've talked about Pittsburgh and Detroit, Buffalo. And now we're on to the Philadelphia Flyers with our buddy, Kevin Kurz. Curzzie, let's just jump into this and into this right off, right off the bat. What was the biggest problem for Philadelphia last season and why was it goaltending? We can just turn. Yeah, thanks.

That was a pretty easy lead in there. I mean, listen, I've been, I think last year was my 14th year on the beat. I think I can honestly say that Alexei Kholosov and Ivan Fidotov were the two worst goalies I've ever seen. And I know that sounds harsh. I know that sounds harsh, but these guys, neither of them should have been in the NHL. You know, I fault the organization really as much, maybe even more so than I do the two goalies for putting them in that position. And not recognizing that neither of them was ready.

So, you know, that was the biggest issue. And, you know, Sam Erison, I know, was the starter and he got the bulk of the time. And I still think he has a future. And if you look at some of the things that he did in international competition, four nations, he got one start, and he beat Team USA, who wasn't playing for anything, but he still had a good game. And then he played really well in the world championships in Sweden. And he still won, you know, he won as many games as he lost last year. I want to say he was 23, 17, and whatever it was. It equaled up to the same number of wins and losses, which to me reflects the fact that he still had an ability to make key saves at key times. and he's still got some improving to do, no doubt about it. But at the same time, he had to know he was really the only option for that team. And this is a young kid, and he's getting, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's aware enough to know that if he wasn't going to win games, no one was going to win games in terms of the goalie. Yeah, I mean, he's, you said it, man, he's, he's young and has some kind of track record there where you can, it's fair to expect.

him to be an NHL goaltender moving forward, right? And that just doesn't seem like it's the case for Fetotov or Colosov there. But the numbers are also, the numbers are brutal. You know, like there's, there's, there's no way around that. Erson seemed like, I know the, the season before last was the one where you saw him really wear down at the, at the end where he just, it was an unreasonable expectation, an unreasonable workload. And last year was pretty rough, too. How much that was due to the, was due to the environment in front of them. Like, where were the, where were the flyers as a defensive team last year, particularly like with the blue line group? Were they making things appreciably more difficult for, for him back there?

If you look at their five on five numbers, if you're, if you're, if you're, if you really put a lot of weight into the advanced stats and the underlying metrics, that they were actually decent team five on five in terms of, you know, the expected goals percentage and that sort of thing. Now, you know, that doesn't mean they're an elite team by any means. And there were nights where the defense in front of them struggled. But at the end of the day, it was more of the goaltending than the team in front of them. If you're talking about the team as a whole, it was more of the goaltending than it was the teams, you know, and the structure in front of them. Frankly, I think they played with a pretty good structure under John Tororella for most of the time.

You know, I covered them last two years. For most of those two years, they did have a pretty decent. structure. And you saw a lot of, if we're just talking about the defensemen, we saw a lot of these guys individually improved. Travis Samhheim reached another level. You know, he earned his way onto that team, Canada, four nations team, played a key role in that team. Nick Seeler kind of came out of nowhere and established himself as an NHL guy. Jamie Drysdale improved. You know, he's still got some runway there to get better. Rasmus Verstallin was playing really well until he got hurt late last year. So, you know,

I think the defense corps, they still lack a little bit of skill. I think they need a little bit more skill and mobility back there, I think. But in terms of playing a structured style, I think they can do that. And I think they'll continue to do that under Rick Tockett. They were fourth in the league and expected goals against five on five per 60 last season. Like there's a by a lot of metrics, you mentioned this, man. They were a good defensive team. Expected goals percentage.

They were top 10. is a team that made serious improvements, you know, at five on five, like meaningful ones. And I know we both, we talked about Erson, you know, seems, seems like an NHL goaltender, but he was, he was rough last year and certainly, and certainly the backups were too. And the end result is you have a team that, you know, that's a, that's a big factor in why, you know, we're talking, we're talking about a team that's, you know, significant pretty far out of the wild card race despite being like by a lot of by a lot of metrics are a good five on five team yeah and you have to keep in mind two things i think you have to

keep in mind if you're going back to the last year's the power play was almost just as bad as the goaltending that was a persistent problem under john torturella and rocky thompson um my understanding of what went wrong there is that the coaching staff rather than trying to teach these young guys how to excel on the power play. They were too reactionary. And obviously it's John Tortorrell behind the bench. And if Tort sees Bobby Brink screwing something up at five on five, Bobby Brink's not going to see the power play for a month.

Exactly. That nukes him on the power play, you know, based on the five on five mistakes for sure. 100%. So that was, you know, that was something I think that Rick Tocket has success. And I know we'll get into this. But Tocket, I think, part of the reason that makes him a fit as he does have success coaching power plays in other locations.

So that was obviously one problem. And then obviously there were much more, there were many more subtractions throughout the course of the year than additions. That's just where the team was at. Danny Breyer telegraphed it ahead of time that this was going to be a year. They were still looking to unload or still looking to gather future assets. And they did that. You know, Morgan Frost, Joel Farabee, Scott Lawton were all traded.

These guys were all contributing to the team at the time they were dealt. And I don't think anyone disagrees with Danny trading them. Obviously, this was not going to be a Stanley Cup team or even a playoff team. But these were still guys that were contributing. And there was an emotional aspect to it, too. They were three really well-liked popular guys in dressing room. Scott Lawton especially was basically, he was almost the de facto captain. And I know Sean Cook, Cotori wears to see, but he was a guy that was just so respected throughout the organization.

And I think emotionally, some of the other guys struggled with that at times. I mean, you saw Travis Connecting and Travis Sandheim. They just, they weren't very good over the final, you know, after the trade deadline, after they lost. Which is as for as good as they were at the start of the season too, right? Like they seem like they seem like they ran out of gas a bit down the stretch. Yeah. It makes sense. It does.

And I think so, you know, you combine. the bad goal-tending, the bad power play, and the persistent subtractions from the roster, that's how you end up with the fourth worst record in the league. Yeah, totally. I feel like we talk about it a lot. Like, you can look at five-on-five numbers and you can look at expected goals numbers, and you can say, like, by a lot of measures, you know, this team perform to a level at five-on-five that suggests that their record should have been better.

It's true. That can be true. It's also true that the rest of the game is not. played at 5.05. And the power, the power play is a major fast of the game. And the penalty kill is a major fast of the game. And typically, you know, that's where if you have a team that's on the margins just overall, if they, if they, if they stink in any of those areas, you know, they're, they're going to get exposed. If there is a lack of high end talent, maybe with, with the forward group, if there is, you know, some, some shaky goaltending, it's going to get

exposed on special teams. And I think it seems like that's, that's a decent bit of, of what we saw from them last season, isn't it? Yeah, it is. It is. And, you know, we also can't gloss over the fact that John Tortorella after the trade deadline, just sort of, I don't know what happened. He just sort of, he just, he didn't know how to coach a team in that situation, which was odd because in the lead up to the trade deadline, each of the last two years, he was on the front line saying, we're in transatlantic. We can't fall in love with players. We need to think about the future. And then after the trade deadline, it was pretty evident that he was doing some things behind closed doors that were not sitting well with either the team in the dressing room or the front office.

And I think that contributed to a lot of those losses post-trade deadline that really sunk them in the standings. Now, you know, at the end of the day, it helped secure them a higher draft pick. So it's really not what really was not a terrible situation in hindsight. But, you know, I think that's part of the reason Breyer has said that he doesn't think this team was as bad as their record was last season. And I tend to agree. Now, they certainly weren't a playoff team. They didn't deserve to be anywhere near that conversation. But, you know, if you look at two years ago where they sort of overachieved, they were probably better.

They probably weren't as good as their record that year. And they probably weren't quite as bad of a team as the record would indicate last season, which, you know, which will make next season, I think, at least a little bit more interesting. So Tortorella gets fired in late March. We're obviously several months out from that. Is there is there any perspective that has come like over the last few months? Like maybe in the light of day. Because that was shocking to some extent. You could see the way the ball is rolling there.

But it is still kind of wild that that happened. Is there, are there any now if the dust has settled and we're looking at it with maybe some more clear eyes. Like, do we, do we have any added perspective on that? Well, I don't think anything's changed from what, what was said at the time, what was reported at the time. Obviously, I think that, and you said it, it was surprising when it happened. But, you know, then when, and as I reported at the time, one or two days later, the dust up with Cam York in the dressing room in Toronto, I think, hastened his departure. But that was also a culmination, I think, of things that were going on. behind closed doors, as I said, that just weren't sitting well with certain people.

And even on that road trip, I remember we're in Chicago. This is the game towards his second to last game, as it turned out. And Fedotov was in net against the Blackhawks. He was God-awful. And I think I asked him, I said, does Ivan Fedotov still have some proving to do to show that he's an NHL goalie here? you know, we're late in the season. And Torz's reply was something like, oh, hell yeah, or something along those lines. It's just like, all right.

Okay. Yeah, I mean, he, he obviously is not hiding his displeasure in the goaltending at that point. And so, you know, I think, I just think Torz was a guy. And Danny said it at the time. I think the line he used in the aftermath in his comments immediately afterwards was something along lines of Torz is a complicated guy. And that's certainly one way to put it. but I think it was evident.

A very, very understated way to put it by by Breyer there for sure. Yeah. I just don't think he knew how to handle the, he knew the roster was, was terrible at that point after they traded all those guys away, had some injuries. He, he probably knew that some of the veterans in the room were just kind of upset

at losing all their buddies. And he just didn't know how to go about it. And then, you know, benching Cam York at the end of a, I think it was a five game road trip in Toronto for the final 15 minutes that game. I mean, when you're benching a guy for 50 minutes in Toronto, that's, you're publicly embarrassing the guy. Yeah. Odds are good. Yeah. So I think, I think what happened was, and also coupled with, with some of the things that had happened at the end

of the season before that, I think that management was, they just decided we better cut the cord now before something truly insane happens. Yeah, because from, from the outside to, you know, you see the way the team marketed itself and how front and center torts was for, especially coming off of that, you know, overachieving season. Yeah. A little bit ago, you're like, all right, this guy is to some extent, you know, the face of the organization, especially, you know, before we're, you know, really, really locked in there, which is that, that to me is what made, granted they didn't win for the last month of his, of his time as the head coach there,

but that's what made it so shocking is that it seemed like so much the organization was was built around was built around him and his personality and the kind of the kind of positive stuff that he that he brings the mix so yeah to see the see see the 180 there was maybe not surprising but it was it was it was it was wild and it happened quickly yeah and and and i think it has to be said too i think torderella's tenure here was not we'll see how it plays out it's a little too early to judge it right yeah but you know they focused on resetting the culture and, you know, instilling that hardworking attitude. And more times than not, I mean, in the two years I covered the team, they did play that way. They played to a Tortorella identity. And I think a lot of the guys, not everyone, but I think a lot of the guys, if you went around the dressing room and asked them, was John Tortorella good for you personally, I think the majority of them would say yes.

And that's guys like Sandheim and Kinectney and maybe even a Jamie Drysdale, Sam Erison, you know, Nick Seeler, Garnett Hathaway. I think they loved, I think they, I think the majority of them

really liked playing for torts. It just got to be too much there at the end. Yeah, the John Tortorella experience, I'd imagine, is a lot different after you've lost 12 to 13 or whatever. The vibes, the vibes can shift pretty quickly.

And that's certainly something we saw play out last season. All right. That's it for segment one. We'll be back with Kerr's in a minute to talk about things that could go right in his master plan to push the flyers or continue to push the flyers in the correct direction. It's the ground. All right, we're back. Sean Juselagh with Kevin Kerr's talking Philadelphia Flyers.

What comes next for a team that was in the league's bottom five last year, but certainly seems like there's a little bit more that apple left a bite. Curz, what's like the number one thing that could go? go right for them this season, whether it's setting them up as a potential wildcard team for the, you know, immediately or just as a, as a better, a better team moving forward. The number one thing that could go right is that Trevor Zegris returns to playing center where he played the first two years of his career, establishes himself as a true elite level center in the NHL, maybe meshes with Matt Bay-Michkopf, to form a, you know, a legitimate

ultimately elite level top line. Now, whether that happens, we'll see. I mean, we got to establish that Zegras can even play center first. Yeah, where, where, where, where's the org ad on that? Like, obviously, like, he has so much more value for them. If he is, if, is, is, is it a, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is it, is, is it, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is just, it's just, it's just, over, over, over a protracted amount of time. Yeah, that's a good way to put it, actually. I mean, he, you know, he got pushed out of the middle in Anaheim because of Leo Carlson and Mason McTavish, right?

And I'm not sure he can even argue the logic of that with those two guys there. But you go back and you look at those first two years of his career, it was 60 plus points each season. And, you know, he's got to get better in the faceoff circle. He's been, frankly, pretty awful in the faceoff circle throughout his career. So that's something he's going to have to get better at. but this team, they were going to have to get creative in order to find a top six center.

And, you know, they didn't even draft one in this most recent draft, right? They took a winger and Porter Martone. So they're going to take a shot on a guy. Which makes sense, given where they were picking, right? Because the premium, the premium center pieces were off the board. Just take the best player available.

They were. Yeah, it was. It did make sense, I think so. I think so, too. And they've got another, they took a, you know, they traded up to take Jack Nesbitt 12th overall. And they got Jet Lucenko from last year. We'll see how, let's see, we'll see what happens with those guys. But they, you know, they, they had to find a center, particularly going into this season, because their center depth at the end of last year was, was just awful.

It was crazy. Yeah. So they, they trade for Zegris. They bring in Christian Dvorak, you know, it would obviously benefit them if he's a guy that can play, you know, at least match the level that he was playing at in the second half of, of, of, you know, of the season with Montreal. But in terms of what could go, you know, what's the one thing that could, you know,

semi-realistically go right for them and really spark them is, is Zegra's turning in into a star, maybe, you know, which we all thought he was going to be a few years ago. Yeah, because if he slots in its center and acquits himself, well, the whole depth chart makes plenty more sense, you know, whether he's, let's just say he's, he plays top six minutes. Let's say he meshs with Mishkov.

If we're talking blue sky, best case scenarios in the world. Then just by default, he's your one C. Because whoever's playing with Maffa Mishkov is your one C. Then Keturier drops down. Then you're talking about Christian Dvorak as a 3C, which he's still suited a role he's suited to fill. He was a little bit overextended in Montreal last year, but he's a useful player.

And then Noah Kates is in the mix too. Like, was Kate's okay last year? I know there's data on him that suggests that he was, you know, that he had a decent year. What did you see from him? Yeah, I thought he really, you know, he looked like he was playing himself off the team in early November. And then something happened around Thanksgiving. And, you know, he put him with Tyson Forster, who I'm a big fan of Tyson Forster. I think this guy's going to really, as long as he's healthy at the start of the year, I think he's really on a solid path.

And Bobby Brink, you know, something with those three guys. guys meshed. And I still look at Cates as a guy that I think his ceiling on a good team is a third line center. Yeah. But, you know, he's good defensively. He's good on the walls. He finally found a next year offensively. But, you know, when you look at the center now, center position now with Devorick and Ziegress in there, I'm sure we're going to see lots of mixing and matching. Oh, God. Throughout training camp, throughout exhibition season, throughout the start of the season. you know, Zegris still can't win a face off.

Well, Dvorak is pretty good at face off. Yeah. Do they put the two of them out there together? I'm sure things will move all over the place depending on game situations, right? When you're down, you want Zegris out there.

When you're leading, you probably want Dvorak out there taking a key defensive zone draw. Yeah. So I think that's, you know, that's just what, and obviously you've got a new coach, too. He's got to learn all these guys on a more intimate basis. I think the idea of talk at coaching Zegers is really interesting to me. I think I'd be interesting to see like what, because that was, when Taco was in Pittsburgh, man, he was the, he was the Phil Whisper, right?

Like, he was Phil Kessel's guy. And we saw it to some extent early, you know, last year was a disaster for the Canucks like all around. But we've seen him find a way to connect to offensively gifted, maybe enigmatic is kind of a, is kind of a low. word, but, you know, maybe somewhat, somewhat difficult, offensively skilled players and, and, you know, putting them in a position to succeed and helping them get to the mind space where, where it's even a possibility. So the idea of Tocke, you know, coaching Zegrois and Mishka, for that matter, is, is, uh, it's interesting.

Yeah, when I, when I talk to Tockech shortly after the Zegroos move, I mean, he, he, he's already been thinking about putting them together and, and, And he basically confirmed that he wants to see if Zegris can play center. So I think that's where he's going to start on the first day of camp. But, yeah, I mean, I think they look at Tocke it a little bit like they did Torderella. He's still a little bit of an old school approach. But also a guy that is not, you know, obviously no one's John Tordrella. So I don't think he'll be quite as hard young guys.

Yeah, I think Talk is probably a little bit more flexible. than torts at this point in this point in their careers. We barely even talked about Mafamishka, by the way. Like, he was, what did you see from him last year? I know he was a highlight reel at plenty of points. Where did he

land for you overall? Well, I do think that was one of John Tortorella's success stories last season because I think that the way he handled Michkoff was great. You know, maybe he reduced his ice time a little bit too often. Maybe he should have given him a little bit more rope in certain situations. But

Mitchkoff at times was just in the complete wrong spot. And it was just leading the odd man rushes the other way. And as expected, right? No one, no one, it wasn't, didn't surprise anyone. And Mitchcoff himself admitted that the grind of the schedule was getting to him. And and that should surprise anyone either because it was a condensed schedule and it's his first season of North America. I thought it was particularly interesting that when Torts was fired and Bradshaw came in as the interim, Michkoff's minutes went off like three or four minutes a game. And I think that so that to me was probably a, that was probably filtered down from up top to the new coaching staff. You'd imagine.

Because that's the one thing that Michikov wants as much. of as possible is ice time, right? Yeah. So I'm sure that was by design, an organizational plan. But, you know, I do think everything about Mitchkoff off the ice, especially, has the organization truly excited about him. This kid's work ethic, his drive, his desire to get better, his desire for team success. I mean, it's right up there with anyone, I think, in this organization.

I think that's what has the most excited of all. I mean, I remember there was a game. it was earlier in the season, maybe November, December. It was an afternoon, Saturday afternoon game. The team had off on Sunday. They lost. I think they lost to Boston. They got shut out.

And Mitch Koff, instead of, you know, you think on a Saturday night with a Sunday off, you want to, you know, hang out with your teammates, maybe have a couple beers. Well, maybe I shouldn't say that because he's 20 years old, but you know what I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah. Watch, watch people drink a couple of years. Yeah. Or go to a nice dinner.

Mind your own business. Yeah. Yeah. He went to skate. zone and went on the ice like on Saturday night right after the game was over. So that's, that's the sort of thing that's like you can tell he's a little bit next level when it comes to that stuff. So I do think that the excitement for Michkoff around the organization is even more so now than it was a year ago before he played his first game. Because I mean,

realistically, 26 points, 33 assists. He's showing all this stuff off the ice that suggests that he's got, that he's, you know, checks all those boxes. Like, realistically, like how much better could they have expected that to go last year. He's playing on a team where there's not, you know, not a ton of offensive talent, right? So he's, so there's not, there is. Yeah, bad power play, blah, blah. Couldn't stack up points there like we've seen from other, from other highly skilled players, kind of of his ilk in the past, man.

Like, I don't, like realistically, like what else could you expect it? It seems like it seems like he handled business just across the board. Yeah, I agree. And it's, it's going to be really interesting to see. Now he knows what the grind of his schedule is. like now he knows the physical toll it can take. It's going to be interesting to see how he comes in ready to attack his second season because I do think there's something special about this guy, and it could very well

show up as soon as this season, as far as I'm concerned. You mentioned Jimmy Drysdale at a couple junctures throughout our talk here. He obviously was their principal return for Cutter Goce from the Anaheim Ducks. Drysdale's had, frankly, a strange NHL career, like the first few years of it. I know there were points last year, but especially early on where, you know, giving them the side eye, I think, in terms of production and all that. But I know that you're, that you were impressed with him to some stretch down the, or to some degree down the stretch.

Like, what's he, what did he get better at as the, as the season went on? and what does he mean for the organization, not just this season, but really down the line, because he's still a couple years ago, he was as, he was as blue chip as it got when it came to defensive prospects. Yeah, it was, it was his decision making and got better. I mean, because I'll tell you, there were times, and same with Noah Cates, and you look at this guy in the middle of November last year. You're like, geez, this is, this is not.

What's going on? Yeah. Because, you know, he's obviously a guy that's got offensive skill. he's counted on to be an offensive guy. It was probably a little bit complicated because Torts would kind of use him or want him to be that rover type player. Like, you know, guy like Dan Boyle was for him in,

my God. In Tampa back in the day, right? Yeah. Michael Delzado in his first couple years with the Rangers. Yeah. I mean, maybe Werenski is a bit more, a more contemporary comparison.

That's true, yeah. You know, it was, Driesdale, I think he's, he's kind of a sensitive guy, too. I think he's an emotional guy. He's very, I think he's probably hard on himself. But he's a very suburbable guy, too, and you learn that when you talk to him. So I think he was really just getting in his own head at times throughout the course of the season, early in the season. And I'll tell you, it sounds, it almost sounds a little bit cliche to say, but you go to the game in December when Cutter-Goti was here. and it was an atmosphere like there hasn't been in that building since they've been to the playoffs.

Fans are just chanting Cutter's name. Then they start chanting Jamie's better. And then he scores a goal and the flyers blow the ducks out of the building. And that almost seemed like that was a turning point for Drysdale. And there were still up and down throughout the course of the season. He's still got a lot more, a lot further to go if he's going to ever reach the potential that everyone thought he would reach when he was the six overall pick a few years. ago, but he was a guy that I think he settled in. He got better with this decision-making, when to jump in, when to hang back. I think he wasn't as hard on himself as the year went on.

But, you know, he's also a guy that to me, they should have just left him as the quarterback of the power play. He's the guy that has the skill set to do that. And instead, Am I saying this as someone who had Jamie Drysdale on my fantasy team last year at some point? Maybe. Is this sour grapes? Who can say? But yeah,

it seems like a power play guy. It's valid. I mean, and that's, you know, you look at Mitch Cough and Drysdale. You're like, all right,

these two guys, let them stay on the power play. Let them figure it out, even if it's not going well. Let them. And they just didn't get the rope. Instead, we've got wrist a line in on the power play.

I'm sure Zambula, for God's sakes. Like just, Boy. It just was complete nonsense. So we'll see. Because obviously, if you're a guy and you're getting, if you're Jamie Drysdale and you screw something up and a puck goes in when you're

on the ice and it's on you. But, you know, maybe you get a couple power play points. All of a sudden you're not in your own head, right? You get confidence out of, even if it's just a secondary assist on a power play. So to me it never made sense. He should have been the power play guy. I would think that's where Tocke's going to, I would think if I'm Rick Tocke, I'm trying Jamie Drysell and top power plant unit when the season starts.

All right. We've talked about what went wrong. Talked about what could potentially go right. Segment three, we'll be back to discuss the realistic potential outcomes here with Kurz. All right, we're back. Sean Gentilee, Kevin Kers. We are fixing the problems, air quotes, with the Philadelphia Flyers here. Curz, whenever, let's say we're in late November,

it's holiday season. We're getting towards those, you know, signposts in the season where it's fair to start drawn conclusions. Let's talk about some things you think are going to be in the mix. What are, what are, what's one narrative, one bit of narrative, you know, narrative thread we're going to be pulling on with the flyers? Well, the obvious one, as we've talked about at length already, is, is the gold, and whether Dan Fladar is a legitimate NHL option.

And it's interesting. I even had someone in the Flyers organization tell me last week that there's some people in the organization that think Dan Bladar, there's more there, there's more to unlock. And there's others who don't even think he's an NHL goalie. It's because he had with the Flamesman, he had stretches where he looked like he was a legit one B. And then he had points where you're like, I, what's, what's going on here.

So I can imagine orgs being split on a guy like that because it was clear just just from watching him, honestly. Yeah. I will say I did. I called Marty Baran. You know Marty, right?

What do you think? He's really the only one, only outside guy I've asked about Vladar so far. And, and Marty told me he was, he was the second best goalie available after Jake Allen as a free agent, which I was surprised. But it,

but it seems like it's true. Yeah. So, you know, obviously there wasn't a whole, there wasn't much to choose from. And that's why the flyers had to pay Vladar two years. What I think it's when you came in at like between six and seven million, right? I don't have it in front of me. But that's why they had to overpay for them. And Breyer even said they only wanted to give whoever they signed a one-year deal.

But regardless, you know, it's Bladar. And I would think, I would think it'll be a tandem situation to start. with Sam Erison, obviously. But, you know, as I alluded to earlier, if Lidar can come in and just give them average goaltending, I mean, if this team had average goaltending last year, it's a double-digit improvement in the standings, most likely. I mean, the fact that they were so bad with the goaltending,

you just need these guys to just, you know, Lidar's career safe percentage, I think, is 898, right? Or that's what it was last season. If he comes in and gives them an 898 save percentage next season, that's huge. That's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's such an indictment of, of, of the performance. Like, I know we would have to rehash it, but like 898, great, we'll take it. And this is also a guy, by the way, 21, 22, he was 9.06, right? Like, he, he was legitimately good for the flame.

So I, I can see where the, where the upside by is there. He's, he's still 27. He's certainly better than the other options that they've been rolling up behind. Arson for the last couple years. So it makes sense. And the, you know, the narrative around Erson that he can be a decent goalie when he's rested. You know, he's not, he can't handle a number one workload at this stage of his career. That has been established. But if you go back and look at how he was two season ago when he was splitting time with Carter Hart, his numbers were strong. He was a legitimate one B option. And he was he was taking starts away from Carter

Hart. It was when Carter Hart left and he was forced to play, you know, nine out of of every 10 games that he just, he couldn't do it. And then, of course, last year, it was a similar situation where he was really the only reliable option and they were forced to play them and he couldn't handle it. If he can split, if he's splitting time with Dan Vladar and they can settle into some sort of a, of a rhythm, both of them, it would obviously be a huge, huge boost to this team because that's what they haven't had. Absolutely. What kind of expect ultimately do you expect Takadav?

Like really, where do you expect them to feel his presence most acutely? Well, it's going to have to start in the power play, right? And that's, as you said, it was, he was good with Phil Kessel. And I think a lot of that had to do with the powerplay success they had in Pittsburgh. That's going to be right away. I think you're going to see some new looks on the power play. You're going to see a more patient approach. I don't think Tocke has any illusions about where this team is.

He knows they're still in a little bit of a transition. But, yeah, I mean, I don't think he's, I don't think a whole lot is going to change than what they had under Tortoella. I think a lot of the defensive stone structure should be there. I mean, that was what he instilled in Vancouver, right? It was a pretty remarkable defensive turnaround from the season, you know, his first season as compared to the prior one in Vancouver. So I think that'll stick.

But, you know, it's, it's, there's still going to be, and Breyer mentioned this, they're still going to have to be a pretty significant teaching element with a lot of these guys under Tockeet and the new staff. This is, this was a 76 point team last season. Like, like, that's like, we need to keep that in mind. There haven't been wholesale changes, you know, like, yes, we're, there's improvement to be made. And Zegrox is really interesting. And they added an actual NHL goal tender to the mix.

But this is still for as bad as Pittsburgh was and for as bad as some of these other teams, the way that we've discussed have been. This is a 76 point team. And that's what you've got to balance here, I suppose. Yeah. And even just hanging in the playoff race would be an accomplishment, sort of like they did two years ago. But, you know, I will say that they're not. not going to be actively looking to subtract players going through the season like they did the

previous two. And everybody on the, everybody that's been paying attention, everybody on the roster, they knew where they were at. They knew that Scott Lawton could get traded. Sean Walker was going to get traded two years ago. Frost and Farabee were, you know, kind of playing themselves off of the team. So the way I think, I can see Breyer walking into the dressing room on day one of training camp or day one of the season and telling the team, you know, we think we've hit rock bottom. We're going to give you guys a chance to compete this year. And if they're anywhere near the playoffs in February or early March, they're not going to actively look to break up this team.

And I remember I tweeted something along those lines after they signed Christian Devorek to a one-year deal for way too much money. And a lot of fans, I think, we're thinking, oh, well, that's a guy they can flip at the trade deadline. That's not the plan. The plan is DeMorax going to contribute to this team. They're going to be competitive. They're going to be at least somewhere around the playoff line. And they're going to give this team an honest shot to make a push if they show they can do it.

Now, if everything falls apart, it's a whole different story. But that's not the plan right now. We'll see how it goes. but the plan right now is to be much more competitive than they were last season and to not actively subtract just to gather more drafts. And there's something about that group that's really interesting to me. Of all the teams we've discussed here, you know, again, this is bottom five, right? We're talking about the Sabres and whoever else.

I'm intrigued by what's going on there. And I think a lot of it is Mishkov, but I don't know, just just where. they're at in their lifespan right now is is very interesting to me so it is it plays out man it's still a very young team right it's still going to be one of the youngest teams in the league but you also have some pretty hard-nosed veterans that are that that kind of keep everything together in the room and guys like garnet hathaway and nick sealer and you know even connect me now and chomcatorier so it it's I do think grizzled grisled veteran Travis connectie my god yeah yeah with an a on this sweater now too I'm not done.

It's going to be an interesting season, I think, next year. Next year is going to be the year where we really find out whether this plan that Breyer and Keith Jones have set in motion is headed the right direction. We'll start to get some answers this coming season. Be interesting to watch. Curtis, thanks for the time, brother. Anytime, my friend. And thanks to you find folks for listening to the Athletic Hockey Show.

Hope you enjoyed our How to Fix series. Again, it's the sabers, the pens, the Red Wings, and the Flyers. thanks to McIndoo, thanks to Fairburn, Yoie, Max Bolton, man, Kevin Kerr's here. The athletic accuracy returns next week with the Prospect Series. We're capping the Halenka Tournament, and that is ahead of the annual pipeline series of close out August. So stick around for that. Keep on enjoying your summer, and we'll talk to real soon.