The Athletic Hockey Show - Hurricanes-Blue Jackets botched review, Sabres-Devils COVID-19 fallout with John Vogl, Multiple Choice Madness, Hailbag, and more

Episode Date: February 8, 2021

First up, Ian and Hailey discuss the terribly botched review in the Columbus Blue Jackets’ 6-5 loss to the Carolina Hurricanes on Sunday, the impressive Florida Panthers suffering their first regulation loss over the weekend, the Vancouver Canucks’ struggling to find their identity early on, the impact of the PWHPA-Toronto Maple Leafs partnership, and more.Next, The Athletic’s John Vogl joins the show to discuss the palpable anger coming from the Buffalo Sabres organization after the New Jersey Devils seemingly violated COVID-19 protocols during their two-game set last weekend, changes made to league protocols in response, the impact on the Sabres, now with nine players out of the lineup, and more.Finally, to close things out, Ian and Hailey run through a series of Multiple Choice Madness questions and Hailey answers listener questions in another installment of the Hailbag.And, don’t forget, you sign up for an annual subscription to The Athletic for just $3.99 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

And we're back to start a new week with another edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. I'm Ian Medis alongside Haley Salveen on this episode of the podcast. We'll chat about the botched video review in the Jackets Hurricanes game. We'll ask how could the NHL get something so wrong. We'll hit on the Vancouver Connects in Florida Panthers. A couple of teams going in opposite directions. Our beat reporter from Buffalo, John Vogel will drop by chat about how the Sabres are angry at the way the COVID protocols were handled when they played New Jersey. We'll open up the hail bag, find out how Haley has been enjoying

the Battle of Alberta, and in multiple Joyce madness, we'll discuss what's more likely this 56 game season. A hundred points from Connor McDavid or 50 goals from Austin Matthew. So lots to get to on the podcast, Haley. First of all, the most important question, what was on Haley-Salvian's Super Bowl menu on Sunday? That is a good question. So I actually got an air fryer, a new air fryer. And I was excited. I was basically just trying all these different things. And of course, you know, we are in a pandemic. I did not have friends over. Like I watched the Super Bowl with my air dryer. I made deep fried pickles. And I'm celiac. So this is important. I'm celiac. So I got like gluten-free breadcrumbs. And I got my pickles. And I tried out a new recipe. And I put them in the air fryer. And

it was the most amazing evening ever because I haven't been able to have deep fried pickles in years, like over 10 years because they're always breaded, they're always gluten. So I made gluten-free deep-fried pickles with my air fryer, chicken wings. It was just like a mess. It wasn't good for one person to be eating on a Sunday. Just not smart at all. But it was good. I was very happy with the pickles.

So, Haley, we're living, we're living parallel lives. You're not going to believe what's the appliance, my wife and I bought yesterday. Air fryer. Yes, we bought an air fryer. How did we both buy an air fryer on the same, at the same time, crack it out for the Super Bowl and we did chicken wings. I'm blown away by this. And this is not us fishing for an air fryer sponsorship for this podcast.

This is us legitimately, I was blown away. Like, this is great. So yeah, I did chicken wings. and yeah, I'm a big fan, big fan of the air friar. It's amazing because you don't have to deal with all the oil. Like, it's way less messy. Like, when I was growing up, we always had a deep friar. I'm like, my mom would make French fries, chicken wings, whatever.

But the cleanup, like, we would all get in fights in my family of, like, who has to clean the deep friar out? And so I was like, why don't we just get an air friar because you don't have to clean and deal with all that oil. And so, yeah, it was a lot smart. It's like way less mess. I've just, you don't have to clean all that oil. So not fishing for a sponsorship, but I definitely. I mean, we already have an air fryer. So, you know, it's too little too late for that.

But do love the air fryer a lot. There you go. And I love it too. No mess at all. But Haley, that takes us right into a very messy situation for the National Hockey League. And that is, and they're probably really happy that this happened on Super Bowl Sunday. Because I think most of the attention of the sports world was on 10.

Tampa and Kansas City, and not on Columbus and Carolina. But just to walk our listeners through, Aaron Portsline has an unbelievable breakdown and a deep dive into what went wrong yesterday. We'll just call it a bizarre chain of events where the Carolina hurricane scored a goal late in the second period yesterday against Columbus. But on video review, Haley, it was blatantly clear that Hurricanes forward, Vincent Trochec, who scored the goal, he's clearly offside,

and he's into the attacking zone ahead of the puck. So, you know, okay, well, listen, we're going to, if you're Columbus, you're John Totorella, I'm going to throw the challenge flag, so to speak, we're going to get this looked at in video review. Well, here's where it becomes a series of unfortunate events. It turns out that the off-ice officials in Columbus at Nationwide Arena are in the process,

of training a new video coordinator. Because what's a better time to teach somebody, you know, bring them in, than during an actual NHL game? And so the video technician accidentally, who's brand new at their job, accidentally relayed information to the officials on the ice that communicated that it's a good goal.

So the linesmen that were on the ice at the time, they take off their headsets and they're like, wow, we heard good goal. it turns out it wasn't a good goal, but now all you know what is broken loose. And Colin Campbell was actually watching this play out. And so they allow the goal to stand, Haley. And again, I'm trying to make this the most abbreviated version of the story. But so now the goal stands.

And because the jackets have challenged an offside and got it wrong, now they get slapped with a penalty for delay of game because that's what the rule is. So there's a minute 15 left in the second period. The jackets are now short-handed. It's a double whammy. They give up a goal that never should have stood, and they get a penalty. So they kill off the minute 15, so there's about 45 seconds left to go in the penalty to start the third period. Well, guess what?

That's where the NHL steps in and says, look, we've made a mistake here. They send the on-ice officials to the dressing rooms, and it's some compelling footage, the Fox Sports broadcasters were able to catch it. The officials go to the dressing rooms of both the jackets of the hurricanes and explain, we've made a mistake. We're going to cancel the penalty now. We're not going to get rid of the goal. We're going to cancel the penalty.

Colin Campbell says, Haley, you know what? I wanted to reverse the goal, but there's no precedent for it. But yet I don't think there's every precedent for reversing a power play in the middle of the power play, but they did that. So I guess Colin Campbell, the key statement here that he gave Aaron Portsline was, I told Yarmou Kekyllainen, I wish we could strike the goal, but there's no precedent for that. Instead, Haley, they decided to cancel the remaining 45 seconds of the penalty kill to start the third period. So where are we at with this?

Because there's no precedent for stopping a penalty halfway through. why wouldn't they just go back and change the goal ruling? Well, exactly. And like you said, it was clearly offside. Like if you go and watch the playback, you zoom in, you watch it all. Like, you can see the big circle, even in Portsline's piece. Like, you can see in the still frame. Like, he is offside.

So it just doesn't really make much sense if you're going to admit wrongdoing. Like, to admit that you got the call wrong, like, I don't even know how to explain this, Ian, because it's such a mess. Like to take away the penalty means that the coach's challenge was correct, right? Which would mean that he was offside, which would mean that the goal doesn't stand. So if you're getting rid of the last 45 seconds of the penalty, you are admitting that the coach's challenge was not a delay of gain, that he was correct in his coach's challenge, which means he was offside, which means that the goal isn't stand.

So it just doesn't make sense. Like, how can you take away one without taking away the other? that you were admitting that he was right and that you're wrong, but they still get a goal. Like, I don't even, and I'm one of the ones who was watching the Super Bowl. You know, I wasn't really, quite frankly, I was not watching Columbus Carolina yesterday. Right. And when we were talking about this before getting on the podcast, I saw Portsline story. And I was like, what the heck happened last night?

Like, was I living under a rock? Like, how did I not see this mess? Because it's a mess. And like, if you're Yarmalekhleinen and he's saying, I'm sorry, like, we shouldn't have given, we should have taken the goal back. Like, what's Kekelinen's supposed to say? Like, well, then why didn't you do it? Like, this is the time. Like, this was the precedent. Like, you can't not do something because it's never been done before. Because if we use that as our logic moving forward, you'll never change anything. You'll just be like, well, that's never happened before. we can't. No, you've got to be the first, like, let's inject, and this is what I've always felt like

when it comes to video replay, regardless of the situation, whether it's goalie interference or offside, if we could just inject common sense. Like, what if we took a common sense approach? So I think, while you might have some angry hurricanes fans, we're like, well, that goal counted, you can't change. Well, let's inject common sense into it. Okay. And common sense dictates, like you just said it, Haley, if you're rescinding the penalty, the penalty was for getting the call wrong. Well, you got the call right. So what are the other ramifications from altering that call? And it's just, it's mind-blowing to me. This was the opportunity. And I know that at the end of Aaron Portsline's piece, he said the NHL is going to consider multiple options in light of this.

And in one of the things, Haley, is the league has wanted to be able to basically stop the play from any arena that they want from the situation room in Toronto. Meaning if they see something, they don't want to have to try and gain the attention of the off-ice official in the penalty box because again, with COVID and there's all sorts of things going on, they want to basically be able to have like,

they should have one of those big red staples, that was easy buttons, they can press it and then the game stops. But if you remember, I don't know if you've ever been at a game where this has happened. I have been, but it's been years. If you're ever at a game, and let's say, and I'm going to use the team that you cover as an example,

the Calgary Flames. So let's say the Flames are playing the Edmonton Oilers, and Johnny Gujarro has the puck, and he comes into the Edmonton zone, and he rips a high shot, he beats Miko Koskinan, and it goes in and out so quickly, the on-ice referee waves his hand,

hey, no goal. He thought it hit the crossbar. But the off-ice officials are watching the game, and they realize, guess what? That puck went in. It hit the back. part of the net and came out. There is a horn that they can sound in the arena.

We jokingly refer to it as like the horn of doom. It's like big horn goes, everybody stops and you realize, uh-oh, we got to rewind because that's a goal and nothing that happens from here on inch is actually real because this is the game should stop. That's what I'm wondering. How they couldn't have done that yesterday, even 15 seconds after the goal, just stop it. We got it wrong. Nobody who's going to complain about you getting it?

get the call right. I think that's the end of the end goal that we should all be striving for. Yeah. And also, you know, I think that should be an obvious thing. But then you also, like I just can't get past. And I feel bad. Like I'm sure whoever this, you know, in training video coordinator is, like, I'm sure he didn't mean to speak into the microphone and say that's a good goal and seem like

official. But how do you, your training. Sit and watch. Like watch. Like, no one is paying you to say like, oh, that's a good goal. Like, can you just picture the guy sitting there, like, watching being like, oh, I think that's a goal? I think that's good.

Like, it's a good goal. And then the guy on the headset being like, oh, yeah, we hear a good goal when there's only one person who's allowed to be speaking and saying that in your job who just said it is to just coordinate who's watching the video. Like, I just, everything that could have gone wrong here went wrong. And of course Columbus loses the hockey game by one goal. by one goal. Yeah, exactly.

Like, this is just, you know, if Columbus would have won by a couple or Carolina won by a few as a blowout, you can, you can look past it. But a one goal game after something like that. And it's John Tortorella, who is the coach. Oh, yeah, that's a, like, that's definitely, I just kind of blows everything else that kind of happened on the ice, at least, this week kind of out of the water, like just such a mess. And Aaron Portsline did such a great job kind of teeing all that up and explaining the inside look of what a mess and what a gong show that was. Yeah, no, absolutely.

We do encourage all of our listeners, check out Aaron Portsline's piece today. Just a deep dive, a conversation with Colin Campbell, and just walking us through exactly how that chain of events unfolded. And I think this has to be a learning lesson for everybody. player, sorry, coaches, on ice officials, league officials situation room. Everybody's got to take this situation and say, how do we fix this and never have this happen again? And of course, like you said, had to be a one goal game. If Carolina wins this game 8 to 4 or Columbus wins this game, it's still a talking point,

but it's the, you know, it might not feel as significant. But this is important because you cannot have this happening down the road. So I think that was obviously the biggest story coming out of the weekend. but as we bounce around and check out some other storylines, Haley, the temperature continues to get turned up in Vancouver. And you think to yourself, if they didn't get those three games against Ottawa earlier this season

where they beat Ottawa three straight games outscoring the senator 16 to 3 in the process, we might be seeing wholesale changes in Vancouver. I know you're sitting in a city where you've got Jacob, Markstrom, and Chris Tann. And I know you want to give a big shout out to our Vancouver listeners for that. But like, where are the Vancouver Canoeuvre? right now because if you take out the games they've played against Ottawa, they might be the

Ottawa senators. Yeah, it's such a difficult question to answer because it's such a weird case study, this Vancouver Canucks team, because if you look at, you know, they have some young studs on their team. I mean, Quinn Hughes is, you know, he's, he's up there in league scoring. He's having a good season. He's having a good sophomore year. I'm not seeing a huge, huge slump, at least in terms of production levels. You have a player like Brock Besser, you have Elias Pedersen. This is not a team that's strapped for young talent. But yeah, we're seeing them in the basement of the standings in the North Division.

And it's difficult to pinpoint exactly what's going wrong. I mean, I think losing Chris Tannock and Jacob Markstrom were huge for the Vancouver, Canucks, quite frankly. I mean, every time I post something about Tannaver Markstrom, I get a bunch of replies from Canucks fans being like, you're welcome or home, I miss you. So obviously losing two players like that is hugely significant. And I just think, you know, that Tyler Tofoli was a mistake, like not trying, not making more of an effort faster to keep Tyler Toffoli. He's just wreaking havoc on the Canucks this year with the Montreal Canadians.

like it's just been this weird revenge tour against the Canucks all season. It seems like Jacob Markstrom gets the shutout in his first game. I mean, To Foley has how many, I don't even have it in front of me. I should have because he has quite a few goals against the Vancouver Canucks this season. I mean, Chris Tann have played really well. It's just, I think there's a ton of heat on that team. There's a ton of heat on, you know, I don't even know if this is a Travis Green issue rather than it's a bending issue, quite frankly.

Like he's the one that constructed this team. He's been there for a long time. I just don't see what the short or long-term plan is with the Vancouver Canucks right now. And that's a problem because you just look at how much promise they showed in the playoffs last season, in the regular season as well. And Canucks fans, a lot of them will tell you a lot of what happened last season was being bailed out by Jacob Markstrom. But I just don't know what the vision here is for the Vancouver. Canucks and there seems to be some kind of identity crisis.

And I think Kevin BXA said it really well in Hockey Night and Canada. He's like, that's the team that everyone loves. They have fun playing against the Vancouver Canucks. And that's not what you want to be dubbed as is the team that everyone is excited to play against because they know they're going to start patting their stats. It's a really bad look in Vancouver right now. Yeah, it is. And you know what, if I had to kind of figure out who's got the hottest seat there, it's

Jim Benning. It's not even close, right? Like I think even if you ask the average, I love Sean McIndoo in his Down Goes Brown kind of weekly column. Today he said, Canucks fans are at the point with Jim Benning where basically they want to see him fired. They want to see him be escorted out of the building

with his boxes, all of his personal belongings. Then they want to rehire. Then the Connucks fans want to see Benning rehired just so they can fire him again. Like that's kind of where it's at with Vancouver fans. And I think so. It's like, they strike me as a team, Haley.

And I don't know if they're waiting for the general manager. to change out or personal. They look like a team waiting for something to happen, whether it's like, and you listen to some of the comments from Bo Horvath and Elias Pedersen, they are waiting for something to happen. And it's not,

it's not an indictment of the players. I just, I feel like they're just, they're waiting for something. Like the other shoe has to drop here. And it's, it's a mess. But let's go from a mess in Vancouver to the other coast

where the Florida Panthers, Haley, if I had to pick, if somebody said, said to me a month ago, hey, Ian, hey, Haley, pick the last team in the NHL that's going to suffer a regulation time loss. Who you got? I'd be like, oh, well, maybe, maybe it's going to be St. Louis or Colorado or Boston or Tampa or Vegas. It's the Florida Panthers, Haley. They finally lost the game in regulation time on the weekend. Four one, they lose to Detroit, but they're six one and two. They've been racking up points at an impressive pace here. Like, how are we feeling

about the Florida Panthers here? Are they, like, potentially, like, are they just a playoff team? Are they dark horse contender like there's six one and two and looking pretty good under coach cue yeah i i don't even know if calling them a dark horse is fair either and again i think this is my canadian bias with this north division i think i feel like if you ask anyone who's covering and if you ask anyone who's covering the league right now it just kind of seems like what team you're kind of covering unless you're a national reporter you're just so you know narrow minded in the division that you're in It's just kind of separating everything, which is, I mean, I watched the Detroit, Tampa game the other day because there's no North Division games on. I was like, this is so weird.

But, yeah, I think if you were looking at some of the moves that the Florida Panthers made in the offseason, I don't think the Panthers be a bad team. I think they were just a team that, you know, I think we discussed this in an early episode or we've had, we've talked about this before. But, you know, when you looked at the Florida Panthers before they played, it was like, okay, well, what is this team? We don't really know. They signed Anthony Duclair. I mean, there was all of those questions and controversy around Keith Theandle. But then again, you have Coach Q, who is not an insignificant person to have behind the bench. So I don't know if I'm surprised by the Florida Panthers being as good as they are because I just didn't have any expectations for the Florida Panthers.

And I don't know if that's just because they were this team where you'd look at them in the offseason and just be like, well, I don't really know what they're going to be. Let's wait and see. So I wouldn't call them a dark horse. I wouldn't call them a huge surprise either. I think they're just playing some solid hockey right now. Like that, I feel like it's as simple as just, yeah, that's a pretty good team with a good coach and they're playing good hockey. And it's kind of as simple as that.

And, you know, we'll get to this in multiple choice madness in a couple of, in a few minutes after we get to John Vogel. But the goaltending situation there is compelling to me. Like I think if they had a game to win tonight, it might be Chris Dregor, ahead of Sergey Bobrowski, but again, like I said, we'll get to that. And look, we got John Vogel coming up on deck here, Haley. Before we get to John, I do want to ask you about one other story, which I think was rather significant on the weekend.

And I know that you follow the PWHPA very closely, and you've been covering women's hockey very closely. Can you walk us through the significance of an organization like the Toronto Maple Leafs providing some sponsorship and support to the P.W. HPA. Yeah, well, it's huge. And I think if you just kind of look back, the PWHPA was created out of the boycott

from some of the best players in the world. I mean, not some, the best players in the world. All the Canadian, all the American Olympians, the players that you see at the world, the players you see at the Olympics, they've been boycotting. They will not play in any of the professional leagues in North America, which right now is just the National Women's Hockey League,

whose bubble did get suspended due to COVID concerns. So the PWHPA players have kind of just been playing in these showcases. They've been practicing as groups, much less so obviously now due to COVID-19. But, you know, it's hugely significant because the reasons why the PWHPA are doing what they're doing and that's sitting out from the pro leagues is they don't believe that the leagues that are out there right now are truly professional. I did a big story about this over in the summer time, just about over the last 23 years since the very, very first women's professional league was ever created. There's always been concerns about the longevity of the leagues, about the business model of the leagues. And we've seen, you know, two leagues fail already and fold.

And the NWHL is still around there. They just finished, as I said, that bubble. So I think these players, they have, you know, really longstanding concerns about the state of professional women's hockey. And they believe that the only way that the pro women's game can be truly successful is if they have the marketing, the infrastructure, and the resources that NHL teams do. So what the PWHPA is looking for is an NHL partnership, more or less a WNHL. And that's one of the reasons why they're boycotting is they're kind of making a stand and say, we're not. going to play until we get the resources we deserve. And the Toronto Maple Leafs, this partnership, is an exact, you know, example of what the PWHPA is looking for because the Leafs, they're

going to host a game when it's safe to do so in Canada and Ontario. They're going to give them marketing support. They're going to give them like social media support, you know, sponsorship support. They're giving them support and they're giving them resources and they're helping them with their infrastructure that the pro-women's game, in their opinion, has lacked. So this partnership is huge because it's exactly what the PWHPA says the women's leagues don't have and what they need. And the Leafs are coming forward and providing that for them. And they're going to be playing a game at Scosh Bank Arena.

So it's huge. And I think it just kind of, for the PWHPA perspective, I think something like that could inspire other teams to do the same, which could, you know, we could see that snowball into something much bigger than just a couple of partnerships. All right, Haley. Well, listen, we've touched on some of the big stories around the National Hockey League over the weekend. I still think one of the biggest stories right now is what's going on in terms of the COVID protocols.

And we've seen a number of teams be put on the shelf. And I think the team that's been certainly the most vocal, it feels like, Haley, the Buffalo Sabres. And we're really pleased to be joined by our Sabres beat reporter, John Vogel out of Buffalo. John, first of all, apologies for inviting a Buffalo guy. onto the podcast the day after Tom Brady wins the Super Bowl. It was, uh, there was a lot of friends of mine who were not happy with that game. That's fair. They can put it that way.

Yeah. That's, uh, anybody but Brady is kind of the thing, uh, in Buffalo, as you well know. So yeah. Yeah. Well, but yeah, listen, we didn't, we didn't bring you him to, uh, to rub salt in the wounds of Buffalo sports fans, but we, we do want to talk about, and I thought you hit the, uh, you know, you hit it out of the park last week with your column where you can definitely sense that there is a, it's palpable anger from the Buffalo.

Sabers organization, people in Erie County. Like, can you just walk us through the level of anger as it pertains to COVID protocols, maybe not being followed John with the in and around the Buffalo Sabres? Yeah, it's for sure. There were a lot of angry people just because it was a situation that seems like it could have been avoided. Obviously, New Jersey Devils came to town for back-to-back games on a Saturday and Sunday. Friday, they had one player go on the protocols, which raised the Sabers radar a little bit.

And they're like, all right, well, one guy's on. We'll see. And then the first game Saturday, Kyle Palmerry played for the Devils. And then between the end of that game and the beginning of the next one, he went on the COVID protocols list. So the Sabres were like, hey, we just played against the guy who's now on the list. They made some calls to the NHL, which I'll let the NHL say they are declining to acknowledge that those calls were made. But I have multiple sources, including the county executive and health directors in Buffalo say those calls. were made to the NHL, they were saying, hey, we don't really want to play. We just, let's postpone this game. Let's take a break. And instead, the game went on as scheduled,

and chaos ensued. The next day, the Devils had four more players go on. On Tuesday, the Sabres got shut down. They had two players go on. It's now up to nine. So they've got nine players on the list, plus Coach Ralph Krueger, who's 61. Obviously, he's bringing that into his household. I'm not sure how old his wife is, but she's in the same, major range. So, I mean, that's a risk category. So yeah, this all happened to the fact, the thing that got the savers mad is they believe it could have been avoided if they hadn't played that Sunday game. And you mentioned Ralph Kruger. And we can get into a little bit more about how something like this even happens, even though it's a really difficult question to answer.

But to me, you know, even back in the return to play, I know a lot of the quite irresponsible discourse, because we know it's not true, but a lot of the discourses around, oh, well, they're young, they're in really great shape. It's fine. They can rebound. A lot of the coaches in the National Hockey League are not young. They don't have, you know, Ralph Krueger, like you said, he's in his 60s. So is there a sense of how Ralph Krueger, his family are doing right now after this protocol? There have not been any updates from the Sabres as to how he's doing, hopefully good. I haven't heard anything either way. So that I can't answer. But yeah, Sabers assistant coach, Don Granado last year was hospitalized with a series.

health situation. So this, the Sabre's slogan since they gathered in late December was stay positive, stay positive, test negative. They've been very vocal about, hey, we need to stay ahead of this. We don't want to take any chances. That was reinforced. They were going to Washington, just as the capitals got their $100,000 fine for some protocol violations that reinforced to the team that, hey, we can't really mess around here. It's going to cost both money and players. So let's take it easy. And then this happened, which is what made him angry, because they think they took all the steps necessary to avoid a situation like this, and you have to hear they are ensnared in it.

You know, John, we saw last week the NHL sort of, and we know that they had to be adaptable and flexible throughout the course of the season, and we saw some new protocols in place, like removing the glass behind the players' benches and different mechanisms for, hey, you can only show up to the rank at a certain time. Do you believe that the Sabre's kind of loud, you know, complaining about this was one of the catalyst for that in-season change? I think that did help for sure. I think also the NHL has realized the one thing Bill Daly said is, hey, if things start to,

if things start to prove otherwise, we'll adapt. And I think they had to. The NHL and NHLPA both told me that they did not believe there was evidence of cross-team transmission, which they weren't, so they weren't worried about that, which is kind of the reason the game went on that Sunday. But they've now learned that, hey, maybe there is cross-team transmission, which led to those four changes this week. And I know Mike Russo reported today that the league is now going to start sending COVID-19 samples to, I believe it was the Mayo Clinic, to check to see the sequencing, to see where they come from. And if there is indeed cross-team transmissions.

So I think they realized that they did have to make some changes. And I think the Sabres yelling about it did contribute to that. Yeah. You mentioned a lot of the anger and the frustration. And in your column, you did call this, you know, the players knew that there would be a risk. you know, with COVID-19, but they didn't want there to be any unnecessary ones. Do you feel like what the NHL has done thus far has been reactive instead of proactive and how much of an issue is that, you know, for the Sabres or even for the league?

And we're seeing now that the Sabres were shut down. But again, that seems like a bit of a reactive measure instead of something proactive, which I'm sure the Sabres would have preferred. Yes, for sure. I think you just nailed it right there. There was a lot of reaction instead of proactive measures. It's just been interesting the fact that the players, they just want to play. They all said that they're happy to be back.

They knew they were taking a risk, but they're happy to be back. The league has a chance to grow just because they came back. They know that. They want to do their best and just go out there and stay on the TV, basically. They just wanted to keep playing, draw the fans in, keep the fans engaged until things return to normal. And now just because of this, they can't. And the players I've heard about, that's one. one of the disappointing things is they really wanted to just keep going and try to be as normal as possible.

And then this changed everything. And, you know, Monday we should have had a Sabres Bruins game that, of course, has been put on the shelf for now. Just looking at this team now, how does this affect the Buffalo Sabres? And again, we're in that spot, John, where I think a lot of people were very curious about Buffalo, right? Coming into this season, they pick up Taylor Hall. Are they ready to take that next step from being one of those teams in the 20s? in the overall standings and into the playoff conversation. And it's been, I guess, just an okay start.

Is that fair to say? But what does this pause do for the Buffalo Sabres? It's a significant pause just in the fact that if the Sabres do come back Thursday, which is up in the air. But as of now, that's their next scheduled game is Thursday. They have the nine guys out includes their top four defensemen, Taylor Hall. I mean, it's just their lineup is going to be a lot different.

But it does impact their first. everything. Just in the fact that they haven't, they were just getting into it a little bit, I guess. There are so many new faces. Hall and Eichel were playing together, and it took them, the talent as they are, it still takes people time to get to know each other on the ice. Sabers have a 500 record, despite those two only having three goals combined. So they were hoping to really start stepping things up when they get back. But the thing is, now they might not be back. Yeah, I mean, I'm looking at the list, and it is, the MVP this season, believe it or not, has been Razumus Ristelainen for the team.

he's on the list. There's a lot of guys who are getting significant minutes and significant contributions that won't be in the lineup for a while. So that is quite the change. And so yeah, it'll be interesting. That's just a significant hit to the continuity and chemistry of a team. And as you mentioned, there are so many new faces, Taylor Hall, kind of the most notable one included. And you mentioned this morning that another player was added to the list. Was it Rosmas Dahlene that was added to the COVID protocol list as well? Yes, that's correct. So some of the Sabres youngest players have been added to the list. Rookie Dylan Cousins went on. Casey Middlestat and Razmus Dahlene went on just now.

So yeah, so there's a wide variety guys. I can't, every line and defense pair has been impacted as I look at this in here. And if they do return Thursday, another thing that impacts them, the scheduling. All these games are now, they've added five back-to-back situation. they average a game every 1.85 days through the end of the regular season. If they do come back Thursday and if that gets pushed back, then obviously the time crunch happens even more. So, yeah, this will be a major impact both on and off the ice. I mean, and if I can jump in again here, Ian,

and I'm sure this is something that you and I will get into as well with the rest of the show. But being a reporter on a team who's, you're right in the middle of all these COVID protocols and some of the issues that we're seeing the league have, what's your level of concern or level of confidence that Buffalo actually plays a 56 game season? That is a good question. Because if this does extend in the time, I mean, I know they have a couple days after the season they could add some games.

But yeah, now we're a, if this does stretch into this, into next week, then yeah, you maybe are looking at it less than a 56 game schedule. I hadn't, to be honest, I hadn't given that a lot of thought that because there's been a lot going on. but I did, you mentioned the NHL and all the protocols and stuff. It's funny. Well, it's not funny, unfortunately. But I told my wife they had made,

they made all these rules to keep reporters away from the NHL in the arena. But it turns out I'm glad that they kept the NHL away from me because there have been so many lapses that I'm just glad that we're, we're distanced. Well, hey, listen, that's a great place to leave it off. And we do hope that I know that we're wishing you, John, the best in health in terms of staying safe because obviously it's an issue there in Western New York. So appreciate you taking a few minutes to chat with us.

And I can't wait at some point, John. It's going to be Senators Sabres Eastern Conference Final. And we're going to do it up like it's 2007. We'll have to bring everybody back. Bring some Andrew Peters. And yeah, it would be a fun time for all those teams, yeah, for sure. Thanks a lot, John. All right.

Thank you. Awesome. Thanks, John. Take it. Okay. time for our favorite Monday segment, and that would be multiple choice madness. Here we go. I got five questions for us to tackle on this Monday. Let's start with this, Haley, and I know most teams are about 10 to 12 games into the season, and we're starting to project out.

Let me ask you this. Haley, you got to pick one of these things that's more likely to happen. Is it going to be A, Austin Matthews scores 50 goals, or B, Connor McDavid gets 100 points. I'm going to say, Austin Matthews, I'm so sorry, I have a French bulldog and he's snoring so loudly. So if anyone can hear this on the podcast, it's not me, it's the dog. Bono's making his The Athletic Hockey Show debut here, it seems. I'm going to say Austin Matthews scores 50 goals. I know Don was on and he kind of talked about how it is mathematically possible for Connor McDavid to score 100.

But I think you just, that goal that Austin Matthews scored the other day, you know, he kind of broke through the neutral zone, toe drag. You know, his release is so fast. Even the guys on the ice who are good players were like nobody even, like you blink and you missed everything that just happened. So I think Austin Matthews, his release is probably one of the, it's just really impressive. So I'm going to go with Austin. And as a side note, you know, being a Calgary Flames reporter, I tweeted one thing. about McDavid and I just get shredded every time. So Connor's not getting to 100. I'll just say that for all the flames fans listening. But Oilers fans don't hate me. No, I'm just going to ignore that. I'm just going to go with Austin Matthews. And you know what though?

Actually, it's great because coming up in the hail bag, we do have a question about how you've enjoyed the Battle of Alberta, so we'll get to that. I'm going to answer this question, Haley, and I'm going to say Connor McDavid to 100 points. And I think part of it is for Austin Matthews to get 50 goals in 56 games, he's basically going to have to do like 50 and 50. And we haven't seen that happen in, I mean, Ovechkin hasn't done 50 and 50, even when he

was at the peak of his powers. Like, I just, and I'd love to see it. And I think Austin Matthews, I have never in my time watching the NHL, you know, 30 some odd years, we'll call it of me watching the NHL and really understanding the game. Have I ever seen a player shoot the puck like Austin Matthews? This is out of this world. But by saying that, I've also never seen a player with the talent and the ability to do what he does in high speed like Connor McDavid. And I think if you look at it right now, Matthews is on pace for 51 goals.

In fact, all you have to do is check James Myrtle's Twitter, right? He's like, Austin Matthews is on pace for 51. I say he does it. So we always know when Matthews is on pace for, okay? So Matthews is on pace as we sit here in the early February for 51 goals. McDavid is on pace for 112 points. and the reason why I'll give McDavid the edge, Haley, I think he's got a little bit more of a buffer,

if that makes sense. Like, to get to 100 points, it's going to be like a touch easier than getting to 50 goals. I'd love to see both these things happen because that's what I think the game needs. I think we need to celebrate the young stars. I don't know that there's two more talented players in the league than Austin Matthews and Connor McDavid.

I would love if they both got to those plateaus, but I'll take McDavid getting to 100 points being a little bit more likely to happen than Austin. Austin Matthews getting to 50. Okay, on to question number two in multiple choice madness. Which team that made the playoffs last year, Haley, should be most concerned that as we kind of get into the second week of February here, that they're sitting in 20th place or worse in the overall standings?

Is it A, your now beloved Calgary Flames at 21st overall? Is it B, the Pittsburgh Penguins 22nd overall? I'll see the New York Islanders 24th overall or the Nashville Predators 27th overall. So I'll go first on this one, Haley. And I think for me, there's only one team on this list that I think figured they had Stanley Cup aspirations. That was Pittsburgh. And with all due respect to Calgary, the Islanders in Nashville, they don't have Sid, they don't have Gino, and they don't, well, they just didn't have the aspirations.

And to me, Pittsburgh's sitting there with that 860, whatever safe percentage they have, out of Casey DeSmith and Tristan Jari is unacceptable. And that's the biggest area of concern. So to me, the playoff team that should be the most concerned, also because I think they're in a tough division. And you've seen Boston elevate to the top of it. Washington's been pretty good. Philly's been pretty good.

Like there's not a lot of wiggle room here for Pittsburgh. And I think they should be pretty concerned. So amongst Calgary, Pittsburgh, the Islanders, Nashville, I think Pittsburgh should be the most concerned that they're sitting in 20 second overall. What about you? Well, I will say, I think what the pay. penguins, they're once again dealing with a ton of injuries. I don't know what it is about the luck of the penguins this last couple seasons, but, you know, looking at a report from Josh Yohe, just the

amount of players who have been injured for the penguins to start the season, who've missed games. It's just last season was crazy for injuries for the penguins the year before that was crazy for the penguins. It's just, I see that being a lot and they've still found a way to win some games here and there and, you know, that they're finding ways to win. So I'm not super concerned with the penguins because they do have Sydney Crosby and they do have Fegni Malkin. So I could always see that team turning the corner. I don't know if they had Stanley Cup aspirations, but I'm going to say the Nashville

predators. I just think that's a team who has kind of underperformed the last couple of years. They just always seem to underperform. They have some good players, at least on paper. They have a ton of big contracts. You know, Ryan Johansson. And Matt Douchain are way, way up there in terms of scoring chances for with the fewest goals. And Ryan Johansson has been snake bitten.

And he missed the last game due to an injury. But I just think the Nashville Predators have just on paper, they've seemed to be good, but they haven't been able to put it together. And this is just another example of that so far this season. And that's certainly a team. Like, they're not rebuilding. Look at the contracts. Look at the players they have.

That's not a rebuilding team. I don't know if they're a legitimate Stanley Cup contender because they're 27th in the league right now, but that's certainly not where they expected to be, and that's not when you've got players like that on your team. Well, as we move on to question three, I mentioned that Pittsburgh's had some problems in goal, but I don't think they have a goalie controversy.

They're just looking for any goalie that can make some sense, but there are a couple of spots Haley around the league where maybe we're starting to see, you know, the seeds for a goalie controversy get planted. So I'm going to ask you this, what team in the NHL, might be facing a goalie controversy on the horizon where the backup goalie right now statistically is outperforming the established number one starter.

Is it A in Florida where Chris Rieger could maybe take over for Sergei Babrovsky? Is it B? Jake Allen maybe pushing Kerry Price out of the net in Montreal. See Yarrow-Halak replacing Tuka Rask in Boston or D. Brian Elliott, I know Carter Hart is 5'2 and 2, but if you look at the numbers, save percentage, goals against, Brian Elliott's actually been better than Carter Hart. So where Haley Salvean could we see a goalie controversy? I don't know if it would be a huge controversy,

but I do think that if Brian Elliott were to take over for such a young up-and-comer in Carter-Heart, that would raise some eyebrows considering, you know, how much everyone's talked about Carter-Heart being this, you know, big up-and-comer, not just for Philadelphia, but in the league. You know, I think he was actually on quite a few of the projected Olympic rosters over the week, over last week, excuse me, when we had, you know, LeBron, Burnside, Domloos Chishin did one.

Carter Hart was like a big kind of popular guy to put on your Olympic roster. So I would say that if Brian Elliott were to overtake Carter Hart, I don't think, I think controversy is very dramatic, Ian. But I would say that would be one that I think for me, if I saw that, it would raise some eyebrows because you're just like, oh, the, you know, this kid was a stud. Everyone was, you know, put such high expectations on him. and now he's kind of getting surpassed, but I don't even see that being something long term.

It just would be kind of interesting in my opinion. Yeah, you know what? Listen, they know all about that in Philly. Like, that's where goalie controversies were invented was in Philly. So I think they're looking at this. They're like, ah, we've seen this movie before. The one that jumps out at me right now. And look, I've seen a lot of Habs reporters talking about Jake Allen.

Could he take a, is he better than Kerry Price? I still think when push comes to shove, Kerry Price is going to be the guy for that team when they get to the playoffs. But I'm telling you, Haley, I'm looking at that situation in Florida. I'm looking at Bobrovsky's $10 million contract. I'm looking at Chris Dregor, who's essentially a journeyman who's bounced around. And Dregor statistically has been so much better than Sergey Barbrowski. You have to ask yourself if the Panthers had a game to win tonight, who would they put in?

Because I feel like if the Habs had a game to win tonight, it would still be Kerry Price. But right now when you look at this dat line in Florida, Chris Drieger, 937 save percentage, 197 goals against 3-1-1 record. Sergei Barbravsky? Yeah, he's 3-0 and 1, but his safe percentage is 881. His goals against his north at 3.5. It's like they're winning in spite of Brobrovsky, and we've seen this before. Like he struggled last year.

So I know that Florida doesn't have the media market of those other places like Philly, like Montreal, like Boston. but I do think we're getting closer and closer to maybe seeing Chris Dregor pushing out Sergei Bobrovsky in Florida. And Joel Quenville knows when you got a goalie that can take you places, you got to go with the hot hand. So I would say that that's the one I would pick. On the question four, Haley, multiple choice madness.

There are four players who are sitting in the top 10 of league scoring right now that I would categorize as kind of surprising that maybe at the start of the year you wouldn't have thought that you would see these guys sitting in the top 10 in league scoring. So my question is, which players sitting in the top 10 in league scoring has the best chance of maybe sticking around the top 10 in the weeks ahead? Is it A, James Van Rheembsdike, B, Nick Baxter, C, Quinn Hughes, or D, Joe Pavelski. So I'll go first on this one. I had no idea that JVR was off to this start until about like a week ago when I was like,

man, James Van Riemstike is tearing it up. I just, I don't see him staying there. The one guy that I can see staying around, Haley is Quinn Hughes. And I think because Vancouver potentially could be a fun, offensive team to watch, and you talked about it earlier where they just, they have the talent,

but they have that reputation of baby being too fun, Quinn Hughes is just racking up the points. And he's a guy that I think with Kail McCar, those two guys have an opportunity to be, be kind of like the next generation of the Eric Carlson's who could finish in the top 10 in league scoring. And this is not a knock on JVR or Nikki Baxter or Joe Pavelski. I just, I think it's a young it's a young man's league. And if you're asking me who's got the best chance in a truncated 56 game season where you're probably playing every other night, give me the, give me the young

defenseman who's got the legs for days and it can go, go, go. I think he's got a chance to do it. What about you? Yeah, well, I would definitely agree. I think Quinn Hughes probably is the most likely to stay there. But I think the interesting thing is, is if you look at JVR and Baxter and Pavelsky, they all have fewer games than Quinn Hughes. And except for Pavalsky, they all have more points than Quinn Hughes. So, you know, just looking at JVR, he's only played 13 games. He has seven goals, 11 points, or 11 assists, 18 points. And he's only averaging about 50. 15, 40. So he's averaging under 16 minutes. Quinn Hughes is averaging just over 22 minutes per game. Joe Pravalski is playing around 20. Backstrom's playing around 20. So JVR is a really interesting case to look at because he's only played 13 games. He has 18 points. He's averaging the fewest minutes of anybody, you know, even just a quick scroll through. He's averaging the fewest minutes of anybody at least within this top 20, potentially the top 30 with under 16 minutes per.

game. So I don't know if that's JVR, just being incredibly efficient. Um, if he's getting some puck luck right now, um, you know, his, his scoring percentage or his shooting percentage, excuse me, is, is pretty high at 23%. Um, typically that will come down. Um, so all that being said, I think, you know, with all these factors, you know, backstrom shooting percentage is at 20. Um, Pavelsky's is at 28. Like, those are things, not to put too, too much weight into the numbers and stuff, but those are things that typically will come back down to Earth a little bit over the course of a full season. Maybe in a 56 game season, you can kind of carry that a little bit longer. Quinn Hughes is shooting percentage is like 2%.

So he's still racking up the points as a playmaker. He's facilitating the puck. His puck luck, at least in the scoring department, should get better. So I'm going to stick with Quinn Hughes, like you said. But it's really interesting to look at, you know, some of those little elements of those guys being in that top ten in scoring. It's certainly, you know, different, I think, to be looking at that right now. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, Haley, fifth and final question, multiple choice madness.

Monday we had the Super Bowl and we had the great star power matchup. A lot of people thought it maybe from a star power perspective. It was the greatest matchup in the Super Bowl. We got Tom Brady and Patrick Mahomes got me thinking, Haley, what's the best star matchup we've ever seen in the Stanley Cup final in the last 20 years? So I'll say since the year 2000, what is the best? Star Power matchup we've ever seen in the Stanley Cup final. Is it A, Patrick Waugh versus Martin Bruder, Avalanche, and Devils in 2001.

Is it B, Jerome McGinla, versus Vinnie La Cavillegalier in 2004, Calgary, Tampa? C. What about back-to-back years of seeing Sid Crosby up against Nick Lidstrom, 2008, 2009, Detroit Pittsburgh? D. Stephen Stamcoast, Patrick Cain met in the Stanley Cup final in 2015, where Chicago took down Tampa. Or E, you can go somewhere else, Haley. is there another matchup? What's the best star matchup we've seen in the Stanley Cup final in the past 20 years?

Well, I will say it's not the Stanley Cup final, but if I can cheat a little bit, I think the Washington-Pittsburg series, when Crosby and Ovechkin, both had hat tricks in that one game in the series is probably the most fun best star power matchup I've ever watched. I remember watching that and just like it was,

like you felt spoiled watching that game. Crosby and Ovechkin going goal for goal and both getting hat tricks. I believe that game went into overtime. And I think that was the year that the Penguins won their first Stanley Cup, which gets into the Crosby backstrom. You know, it maybe shows, it just feels maybe like a little bit of a cop out because it's Sydney Crosby. But having the Penguins, Detroit Red Wings, go back to back in those two years and having

Crosby and Nick Lidsstrom back to back. I mean, again, you just feel spoiled watching that two years straight. Just two of the best to do it at their position. You know, I think the, again, La Cavier one is great too, because when you have those kind of Hockey Hall of Fame induction conversations, you know, Le Cavillet won that Stanley Cup. So he has the ring that Iggy doesn't, but Iggy still kind of has the better legacy.

And obviously, as we saw, he was a first ballot Hall of Famer. So that was a really interesting one. I'm going to go with Crosby and Lidsstrom. You know, Haley, I actually covered that Washington-Pittsburg series in 2009 was great to be in the building when Sid and OV had matching hat tricks. Now you need to let everyone know how old you were just to mock me. You're in high school, weren't you? No, you weren't even.

Were you? 2009? 2009, I would have been in high school. There we go. Because what we're 2021 now. Let me just. Okay. Okay, so that's good. Okay, now that actually makes me feel better. I was worried you might have been in elementary school.

Well, I don't know how I remember how old you are in high school. I was probably in grade nine. Like I would have been 12 or 13 years old. Man. Okay. Well, that does. That makes me feel old, but I'm still hanging my hat on the fact I'm the same age as the guy as the Super Bowl winning quarterback right now. So you know what? I'm hanging my head on that. I still got lots of years left at me. Look, I'm taking A. I'm saying Patrick Waugh, Marty Broder. And the reason why I think you can make a compelling. argument that both of those guys are in the conversation of the goat for their position. And it's kind of a little bit maybe like Patrick Mahomes and Tom Brady in that they play the same position. And I think a lot of people would tell you Patrick Wa is the greatest goal of all time. But you know what? Marty Broder is pretty accomplished as well with three Stanley Cups and an Olympic gold medal.

And like, there's a lot of things that make Broder and Wao really compelling. So if I had to pick, hey, what's the best star power matchup? I'd say Wobro Dure, but I get really disappointed, Haley, when I think, like, we never got a Gretzky-Lam-Mew Stanley Cup. We probably won't get a Crosby McDavid Stanley Cup. You know, I would settle for, you know, Nate McKinnon and Crosby or, you know, I would settle for anything. But I just, I wish the NHL, we got a little bit more of that kind of star power. Because really in the last, even when you think about Crosby Stanley Cups, like one was against Nashville and they're not really a star-powered team. He got San Jose one year, but like Thornton at the end of it wasn't the Thornton from, you know, 2006-7, right?

So I wish the NHL we would get some better kind of star power matchups in the Stanley Cup. All right, as we wrap up this show, Haley, time for us to open up the hail bag. Got a couple of questions here for you. And I always love the names. I took these ones from Twitter, Haley, and I love the names that come in. I'm going to start from this one, this tweet came in from Jebediah Octavius. Jebediah Octavius, okay? And first of all, he or she, I guess it's a he, Jebediah,

but Jebediah tweeted at us and said, what are your thoughts, Haley, the first time covering the B-O-A? And I first of all, I was like, wait, B-O-A, what is this? And then, well, Battle of Alberta. And what do you think about the lack of fans inside the arena? Has that sort of decreased the intensity? So, look, we had a Battle of Alberta game that you attended on Saturday between Calgary and Edmonton.

What was that like? And what have been some of your takeaways being inserted into one of hockey's great rivalries? Yeah, well, it's funny because I did a radio interview and they were asking me, you know, welcome to, it was with a radio station in Edmonton, and they were saying, you know, welcome to the Battle of Alberta. You know, are you excited, blah, blah.

And I just remember watching the last game of last season where Edmonton and Calgary played against each other. And it was the huge scrum. It was the goalie fight. and I was sitting in Toronto at the Weston at the hotel bar because I was on the road with the Sends. They were playing the Leafs. And I remember sitting at the hotel bar, one of my friends came to meet me. We were having a drink watching the game.

And I all hell broke loose. And I was just like, what is this? Like, this is incredible. Like, I mean, violence is bad. You know, concussions are bad. But watching that in the moment, like the entire bar was just, even people who, weren't huge hockey fans, like everyone was watching the televisions. They're like, what the hell is going on? Like, this is insanity. And I just remember watching that. And then when I obviously came to

Calgary, like the Battle of Alberta was huge. Like I was really excited to be able to cover something like that. I just think that games like that are great for hockey because those are the games where, like I said, you're in the hotel bar. There's the people with their Leafs jerseys, people with their sons jerseys after the game. But then there's people just staying at the hotel. But everyone's watching. And I just think that's so great. So I was really excited. The first Battle of Alberta game obviously didn't have the same kind of heat. There was no goalie fight. You know, Jacob Markstrom wasn't dropping the gloves on center ice. Somebody did ask him, though, when was your last goalie fight? And he was like probably six years ago in Utica, like not something I'm really going to be doing.

It's not something I practice. So obviously there was no big brawls. Like there was a little bit of, you know, spice to it towards the end. You know, you know, you know, Matthew Kuchuk is, you know, always kind of the one stirring the pot a little bit. So it was great. I thought it was a first period wasn't very good for the flames, but the hockey game ended up being great. You had some obvious displays of what Connor McDavid can do with his speed. Johnny Guadro was fantastic. His no look backhand pass to Sam Bennett was amazing.

His top, his glove side, like top corner goal was amazing. So in terms of the hockey that the flames put on the ice, I thought it was great. Obviously, it wasn't a goalie brawl game. And I do think, you know, without fans, it takes out the energy and the electricity that you could feel in the city. Matthew Kuchuk was talking about how in normal years, normal circumstances, the energy and the electricity in Calgary when Edmonton's in town or it's just palpable. Like the whole city is buzzing. Everyone's excited. The oilers are in town. That's the, everyone's talking about it in Calgary. So obviously this year, that's something that I obviously missed out on and I couldn't kind of walk to the rink. and just see and feel the excitement around that game because the fans weren't allowed

of the building. But I think for the players, the energy level was certainly there because, you know, it's easy to get up for a game when you're a player playing against a divisional rival. And last question from the hellbag that we have time for today. And I love this. Again, I told you, I love the username, Haley. This one is from Jean-Claude Transam. That's right.

Jean-Claude Transam tweets and says, what is your ideal fourth line construction? I know that scoring is often needed in your top two lines, but I'm wondering if you think the things should be changed in the way people view the fourth line and moving away from energy checking lines and that type of role. You know, Haley, I always think about when the Boston brand,

it's been 10 years now, this is what's nutty. When the Bruins won that cup in 2011, I always think about that's the most famous fourth line was the Bruins Merlo line of Danny Pae, Gregory Campbell, and Sean Thornton. And they kind of had this kind of grinders mentality and Claude Julian had a ton of trust in them. And they could, I mean, you know,

they could chip in with the odd goal. But that was kind of, to me, a different era. I think a lot of people now don't want to see lumbering, kind of forecheck heavy, just fourth liners. They want to see a little bit of skill and speed on their fourth line. So if Haley was general manager of an NHL team, what would her fourth? line look like?

I think my fourth line would need to look like a combination of the both because you, you know, you want to have guys who can chip in some goals. You want that secondary scoring on your roster, you know, in that bottom six and in that fourth line. But I think you also need a bit of that energy. You need, you know, as maybe old school as it is, I do think that there is still value in, you know, a huge check. Maybe not so much like a big fight, but, you know, I think there is a bit.

value in a fourth line going out there. They, you know, they get a couple good hits. They bring some energy. They maybe get a couple scoring opportunities. They're solid defensively. That's a big part of it. You don't want just like checkers or fighters out there who just cough up the puck and get caved in in their own zone the entire time.

I think you need to have a blend of that skill. They're solid defensively. They can generate offense, but they can also still add that energy to the game with their physicality. But that's the thing. The energy can be provided from that fourth line from a good blocked shot, from a good defensive play, from a good offensive chance. So like I said, I would want to see a blend of that, you know, bringing some energy, but not just in a physical way, a little bit of both, in my opinion. Well, Haley, we'll have to leave it there. And speaking of energy, you brought it today on the podcast, but let's see if you can bring it on the way out like

you didn't last week. Haley, this was fun as always. Have yourself a great. week and I'll get you again next Monday. Thanks, Ian. That was like the most embarrassing clip, but I had to post it anyways. The look in my eyes, I was looking past you. I didn't care. I was like, I'm done talking. I want to go get another coffee because I'm in Mountain Time. So, I mean, it's not even that early for Mountain Time. I'm just being a big wimp. But yeah, I just completely ignored you. God bless our producer, Chris, for clipping that together to make it seem And like I said, thanks, Ian. Have a great week.

Yeah. As I just did now. Exactly. See, there you go. People can feel the chemistry. All right. Have a great week. And thanks to everybody for listening to the athletic hockey show.

We ask you to please subscribe on your favorite podcast platform, leave a rating and review. We would certainly appreciate that. And if you want to subscribe to the Athletic, you can get an annual subscription for just $3.99 a month when you visit Theathletic.com slash hockey show. Don't miss out, Scott Burnside, Pierre LeBron. We'll be back at it on Wednesday with the. athletic hockey show. I'll be back at it on Thursday with Sean McAard.