The Athletic Hockey Show - ‘If I were GM’: Pronman, Wheeler, and Bultman pick the first round of the 2024 NHL Draft

Episode Date: May 31, 2024

On a loaded Prospects Series episode of The Athletic Hockey Show, Max, Corey, Scott, and FloHockey’s Chris Peters break down Corey’s latest 2024 NHL Draft ranking, Chris audits Corey, Max, and Scott’s “If I were a GM” mock draft results, and the guys close things out with thoughts on the Memorial Cup so far. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Hey, everybody, Max Boltman here with a full house for today's Athletic Hockey Show prospect series. Corey Prondman, Scott Wheeler, Flohockey's, Chris Peters. We have a packed show today. We're going to start with Corey's draft rankings just a second. But in segment two, we got a really fun exercise. Chris is going to audit Scott, Corey, and I's if I were a GM mock draft in segment two. And then we'll circle back.

We're talking about the Memorial Cup. A lot of us have been there. throughout the week. So we will start with Corey's draft rankings, though. And Corey, you just posted this list this week. Obviously, you've been posting these throughout the year. So a lot of it is similar, but there's some big movers in a couple cases. And one of those is out of the world championships, Stey and Solberg. We've talked about him on the podcast. I know you liked him. How did you kind of parse how good you thought he was at World Championships and the rise with the overall kind of set of data on the year to land with him at number 12?

He's going to be a really tough evaluation for teams just because the league he played in the Norwegian professional league just simply has no track record of developing NHL players. And that's going to be a concern. And I know it's a concern for NHL teams and trying to assess how do you balance the international play versus what you've seen from him, you know, all year, which has been very tough levels to assess. you know, it's kind of the same issues that teams are dealing with the Dean Luterno, who is frankly a more appealing toolkit than Solberg. I think what Solberg, the argument is that it's not just one tournament. This is a guy who has played up for years. You know, at his age group, he was one of Norway's best players at the U-18s.

Two, you know, two U-18s ago. He was with the U-20 team, I think three full seasons ago, and that he had missed the following U-20s. due to injury, you know, and somebody expected he would have played very well there. And then obviously he had us, I don't think an amazing world of juniors, but it was fine, solid. So there's a little bit more of a track record there, even if it's not the most impressive track record. Like the arguments we've talked about with Solberg-Word is how analogous is the situation to Mort Sider. And I think there's some distinctive differences.

The DEL is not this league that consistently turns out NHL players, but they turn out better quality talent. They churn out players who would they excel go to the SHL, go to the KHL. They get good American League players who come over. That's not really the case with the Norwegian Pro League. So there's a distinctive differences there. Solberg is 6-2. He's not Cider 6-4, so there's less tools there to dream on. But I think if you really just go back to the World Championship, you key in on Solberg.

This was one of the very best players for Norway. A Norway team that frankly wasn't terrible. They weren't great, but they weren't terrible at that tournament. and he, I thought, significantly outplayed his fellow draft eligible, Michael Branson and Egard, who have a big fan of as well. And I think the overall picture, the toolkit, the production, the international performance, speaks to a player who I think has a chance to be a top board offenseman, a player who, quite frankly, reminds me stylistically

of players like Brayn Schneider and Caden Gouldy at the same age. Chris, Scott, any gripes there with Solberg being this high on Corey's list? Well, you know, he's not going to be, he's not going to be a, high on my list that comes out next week. And, you know, but it's not, but I think that he's proven over this that, you know, the top of his game, if that's the top of his game at this stage at the World Championship, that presents as a first round defenseman. I mean, you watch the way that he was able to move pucks and the physicality that he played

with, the, you know, the nastiness that he had, the physical strength he already possesses. my concern with him is ultimately going to be upside, especially, you know, in this, in this draft class where we're so loaded with defensemen, you know, would I necessarily put them ahead of guys like Charlie E.E.J. Emery, who, who are, you know, different, valued differently, you know, in my opinion with similar skill sets and tool kits to this player. So, you know, I'm intrigued by it. You know, I think Corey and I have had some discussion. off the questions offline about it too. I remember very few instances at the World Junior Championship

where you could see flashes of this. But to see it sustained over the tournament, I mean, he had the most minutes of, you know, he was the most minutes of any defensemen on his team and was among the top five defensemen in time on ice, average time on ice at the men's world championship, you know, and all those other guys were NHL players. So really impressed by what he did.

You know, I think that it is for me, I feel that there, it's, I don't have. have enough of a sense of him to be that high on him. But I think that there's absolutely a reason to put him in that first round discussion in that, you know, for me, it'll be more in the 20s discussion. But I'm nonetheless intrigued by, you know, seeing this, this late move from Corey. I'm in the same boat as Chris, too. He's going to be on the early, it's sort of early 20s on my list. So about 10, 10, 11 spots lower than where Corey has him. he's a first round pick now the physicality how strong he is the meanness he plays with he's going

to be a tough player to play against up levels he showed that he could play a physical sort of continue to play his brand of hockey against men both in the in the norwegian playoffs with valerenga and then and then at men's worlds like he's he's going to be a solid physical type in the nchel and he's got a little bit of offense too he did make i just thought he also to chris's sort of note on the world juniors i thought he also made some, a lot of mistakes in that tournament, like a lot of sloppiness in that tournament that I think put some people off. But he was much, much better sort of February, March, April, and then sort of really sort of solidified himself as a first rounder. Yeah. And, you know, Max, what I find interesting

and what I want to throw back at Corey and ask him, and I know this kind of gets us into another wider discussion about the rest of his list. But it's, it's not that Steyan Solberg is 12. It's that he's ahead of Tija Ginla, Consta Hellenius. Adam Urochek, who obviously has a very different situation with the injury and everything, Cole Eiserman, you know, so these players that we've seen at these levels and play at a high level and guys that, you know, have trended upward, what ultimately leads to your pushing him ahead of players like that? I'm sure that that's one that maybe you caught some feedback on from just readers because obviously the buzz is that, you know, Tij Gimlow is going higher.

I'm in a similar range on my list with Tij as you are. But at the same time, you know, just as the winds have blown, how do you kind of arrive to him over those guys? Sure. I mean, let's start on Tij again. I know that's one. I'm going to get some feedback on too. I think he's 13 for me right now. And there are some people in the league I talk to who agree with me on that who view him more as a teens type of player.

And there are some who are really high on this player and view him as a top 10 player in this draft. And for me, with a gindler, the differences in opinion comes down to his hockey sense. I think anybody who watches this player can see he's very, very skilled. I think anyone who watches his player sees a good skater, a guy who can really rip a puck, a guy who has a good motor and there's no issues with his compete. my concern with Eginla is I see all those things, but I also see a 5-11-60 winger who quite frankly for me doesn't make like a ton of plays.

I don't think it's playmaking as an issue, but I don't think it's a major asset. I think its offense is driven by his skill and his shot, not too dissimilar to Cole Eisenman, quite frankly. I think the biggest thing between Eisenman and Eginla is their compete, but otherwise I think there is a lot of similarities, quite frankly, between those two players. And so that's, you know, you kind of can blend that discussion together.

If you want to say, why is Hope working head of Eisenman and a Ginnla? But for me, that's from where I see the Ginnla. If you love the Hockey Sense, then he is that top 10, top eight, whatever player in this track. Because now you're talking about the complete package. For me, when I see the hockey sense more as average, I don't see this guy as a true playmaker, a guy who makes other players better consistently. For me, he falls more as a teens guy, a guy who I think is a top six winger, made on an elite point producer at the next level.

And then comparing him to Solberg, like I said, I think with Solberg, the question comes down to, do you believe in the puck play? Because everyone can see he's six to, everyone sees he skates. Well, everyone sees this guy's a hyper-physical, hyper-competitive defense. The question came down to puck play. I wasn't on board of the puck play after the world juniors. It didn't look good. As Scott said, like he was, he looked like he was like, you know, kind of had, you know,

hot potatoing puck all over the place. It wasn't a very, you know, a great performance in that regard. But then he goes to the world championship. He's running their first power play. And I find he's making plays. He's showing creativity with the fuck. I'm not saying it was elite offensive traits he was showing, but he doesn't need to have elite offensive traits to be a top four defense.

It just needs to be decent. It needs to be a reliable first pass. That's the enough skill. And I thought against NHL competition, he displayed that he had those traits for me. And it may have been in two weeks, but those are a tough two weeks. And the bar I needed him to clear was not that high.

So combined with the physicality and skating, I see that this is a guy who has a really desirable, unique profile as a really physical top four defensemen who can make a first pass in the NHL. And I would take that over, frankly, average hockey sense, average size goal scoring wingers. All right. Let's jump off from there to another player that rose significantly, Corey, on your list. And we've talked, this won't be a surprise to anybody. Beckett Seneca was a big mover for you all the way up to number seven, though. And let's just lump these two things in together.

At seven above Ivan Demadov, who was in the conversation for number two with Chicago. Can you talk us through kind of why you're so comfortable with Seneca that high? And specifically, what puts them over Demadov, who I think a lot of people have really, really high at this class. Yeah, those are two different conversations. I mean, I don't know, I'll blend them in at the end here, but let's go one player by one here. So Seneca is one of the more interesting Kigs is in this year's draft class because of the production.

You know, it's just a little bit over a point per game in the regular season. Quite frankly, not the most impressive production for a guy to be a first round pick, never mind a potential top 10 pick. But there's much more to this player than just that. You have the extremely strong underage year where he was nearly a point per game as a 16-year-old. You have the fact that even though the points weren't coming, I thought when you watched this player particularly in the second half of the year, I mean, he just kept jumping out of me over and over and over again in the Oswe games I was watching.

And I thought even though the maybe he was not getting the puck look, I thought he was a major reason why Oswald was winning so many games. I forgot the exact number. They wanted some crazy win streak there to end the regular season. And I thought Seneca was a massive reason for why they were doing that. I thought he was even a bigger reason for why they went to the OHL finals. You watched some of those playoff games. He wasn't just good.

I thought he was flat out dominant in some of those games. The skill just is just jumps out right at you. Like I said before, it's elite skill, which combined with the fact that he's six two and he skates well, it's just an extremely appealing combination of traits. And listen, I get it.

The production is very concerning, very concerned. But I'm, the concern is a lesson for me when you consider the 16-year, which was really productive. When you look at the playoffs, which was extremely productive at a high level of competition. When you look at how he was helping his team be a leading factor for why he would win a game, not the biggest factor.

That was Callum Ritchie, but a leading factor for why they were winning so many games. And just watching the player, you see how loud those tools are. It makes me look past those production issues to a degree and just think of how is this toolkit going to age? What is he going to look like in three years? And for me, I see the potential to be an impact.

pro. I think he has potentially elite NHL skill with clear NHL athleticism and I think that projects really well into the pros. Ivan Devadov, we've talked about him all year. He is, I think, the only player I use a six-tier tool grade from poor, below average, average, above NHL average, high in an elite.

I think he's the only player I gave any elite grade to in this entire draft class. And I gave it on his skill. He has insane skill. It's like pull you out of your seat skill. You watch him in the MHL. He's an absolute highlight real machine, the back-to-back MVP of that league, putting up huge numbers and being a leading contributor

to why his team won the MHL playoffs. You know who also was a leading contributor to why his team won the MHL playoffs? Matveh Mikhail, and he did that as a draft minus one, not in his draft year. Yet he still went seven. And I think there are some concern for me with Devadov, even though I'd have Michikov rate quite highly in his draft year. You know, I do worry that even though Michkov is highly competitive winger, I don't know if that hockey sense rises to the special level of, say, what Mitchkov was in his draft year. And yes, as we're probably going to discuss a little bit over the course the next few weeks, of top of his 511 frame and his position, I do have some concerns on his skating.

You know, that kind of knock-knee toe-to-to skating stride is the kind of thing you saw from, you know, whether, you know, be players like Antonio Stranges or or other players like a Jeff Skinner who did it successfully. It's a unique skating stride. And while I think he's going to be a highly successful pro, unless he's like a hundred point player in the NHL, I just find the playing style that I would prefer is the elite skills, speed and size winger. over the guy who I think is going to need to just be so insanely skilled and smart and basically be career cap resolve around Terry Panarin in order to have a bigger impact in the NHL. And I'm sure I went on for a while there. I know Chris and Scott have the disagreements, but that's just,

that was just my thinking with that one. Yeah, let's start with Scott here because Scott, I know you've got Demadov really, really high on your board. Yeah, I just think he's got a real chance to get there. And I don't think that ceiling exists for Seneca, even with the skill, even with the untapped physical potential. And I think that's almost something that flies a little bit under the radar with sort of the average fan when they read about Seneca as you see this kid and he's skinny and he has

a lot of room to get stronger. That's really exciting for NHL teams. But I think with Demadov, there is an opportunity for him, maybe not to get to 100 points, but to be an 80, 90 point player to be a first line winger in the NHL to lead a team in scoring. I think there's that kind of upside with Demadov. I don't think you're going to get that out of Beckett Seneca, even if he hits and even if he sort of gets to where you'd hope he gets to, he's probably 10, 15, 20 points less than that kind of thing, like a second or third leading score on a team rather than the guy. And I think Demadov has a real opportunity to be that. I truly believe Demadov's one of the more skilled players to come through the draft in the last few years. And there are a number of players that have come through the draft in the last few years who've looked less skilled, who are already sort of doing that at the end. NHL who are already having a high-end top six impact in the NHL just sort of two to three years

out from their own drafts. So I'm a big, big believer in Demon's ability to get there. And if he does get there, he's going to be a star. So like the concern for me is I agree with you on the skill assessment for Demidoff. But the concern for me is what happens if we're just slightly off on that? If you're just slightly off on the offensive projection, now you're talking about like a smaller forward who's not an elite skater. And I go back to the 2020 draft.

I think of Holtz. I think of Raymond. I think of Rossi and Perfetti. Four guys who are not elite skaters. We fast forward a few years. Really only Lucas Raymond is an impactful score at the pro level. I think Rossi and Holtz and Perfetti could get there. Then you go a little bit lower in the draft order and you have Seth Jarvis, who maybe

competes way better than Seneca, but he has the speed and he has more translatable factors. ends up becoming a superior player to to Holt Rossi Perfetti. Those are the risks I think of in this case. I think Max and I were talking about this the other day. We were to make up a lot of what can go right, but what can go wrong in the projection, too. I think that's part of it. I think he's a more talented player even then.

Probably the two most talented players you listed from that group at that age are Perfetti and Lucas Raymond. I think he's a more talented player than both of them. And then on top of that, I think the fallback is that Demitup does have a competitive element to his game. Even when the points are there, he impacts the game in other ways. He gets after it in ways that a player like Matt Bay-Michikov doesn't. So I think there is a little bit more of a B game there, a lot like Lucas Raymond.

Lucas Raymond, Lucas Raymond had a nice B game to fall back on. And that's my call for him is Lucas Raymond. So if you, Lucas Raymond's second overall, are you happy? I think if Lucas Raymond's the low-end outcome, you can live with it. So is it really the low-end, I guess, is the quite, like, are we, If Corey's saying that's the cop, that's probably like the 50 to 60th percentile, right? What's the 20th percentile? I think is what Corey is trying to say.

I think Lucas is the low-end-o-com. I would be surprised if he's not a very good top six-winger, and the level above that is a true first-line one. Yeah, you know, another interesting point. Corey has talked a lot about the size here and what we don't have on Ivan Demadov is a verified measurement, which is something. that is important to note. I know that you talk to some of the Russian scouts or the teams that have Russian scouts

and they're saying, well, we're here and he's six foot. You know, we're here and he's a bigger guy. And then Scott, I've heard that too from teams. They tell me the teams who like him to say he's closer to 6.1, yet Scott's website has him at 5.9. So. Yeah. Well, I don't know exactly how up to date their webmaster is. I'm not going to use him as a guide.

We're going to find out in Florida in a couple of weeks. Yeah, he's going to stand up. And, you know, because like, yeah. Although I'm not sure. I'm not sure I would trust in agents official measurements. Well, but if it's publicly observed. No, no. No, and I'll be there too.

I would just, I thought it would be funny. It's like the agency. This is the Milstein camp was happening in the summer. If they provide measurements, they just happen to jack up everybody's measurements. I'm 5.11 and a quarter. I'm happy to go and be a dummy and just stand next to Ivan all week. Yeah, that's that's actually how I used to gauge height when I didn't believe the measurements. But just like, I'm like five, nine and a half, you know, let's call it 510. But anyway, that isn't, and that's, and that is part of it.

I think that that's going to be interesting to see, you know, talking to teams that are like, oh, he's bigger than celebrini. You know, so it's like, yeah, you know, yeah. But anyway, getting aside from that, I think to Scott's point to, and I'm going to bring this back to Seneca because I think that to me, and Corey freely admitted this is that there's a lot of... Are you saying this has gone up the rails? No, a little bit. But just to bring it back to Seneca, in particular, because I think these are obviously two fascinating players. And Seneca, I see the skill too. I see the shot. I see a lot of the things that he has done. and then we're projecting a lot based on, you know, which is the real player? And I always think if the player can prove he can do it, if the top end is what he showed in

the playoffs, then that's what he can do and he can sustain that longer term. We at least know that that's in his toolkit. And Corey, so I guess you're saying that his top end, that if that's what we've seen and you're projecting out a little bit more, you can project, you feel comfortable projecting that ahead of a Demadov who granted we haven't gotten a chance to see him against the top level competition as frequently I think I think comfortable is not the wrong

is the wrong word to use when it's literally a one spot difference true and where I have them on my list I feel like it's not a one spot difference we're talking about like a seven spot or a six spot difference from or five spot difference from a lot of other Right. No, I thought I meant between those two players specifically. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. And, you know, like I said, we were on a team and it came down to it and I wanted Seneca, you want to, and my six other colleagues wanted Dembandov. I wouldn't like fight about it or like, you know, quit over or so like that. Yeah. No, Devadov's a great player. I'm excited to get him. I think the question, like I said, I think with this particular debate, for me, it would come down to, like I said, I think there's pro translatability. And yes, I believe. and in order for you to think that there's going to be significant offense, yes, you have to believe

with Seneca that what he's shown in the playoff particularly is the real player. And there's a good chance I'm wrong about that because just like I think there's some risks in how Demadoff game is going to translate. I think there is some risk that that's not a real Beckett Seneca. There is some risk that maybe he doesn't really have that level of offense. But that's what I believe from all the work I've done on him, from all the gains I've watched of him. And that's, and combined the fact that I think his game is going to translate real well, if that's true, I think he has a chance to be a really impactful pro winger.

Just listening to all you guys talk about this. One thing that's jumping out to me is, I think as we talk about the skill, Corey, you mentioned you only have one elite grade in this class and it's on Demadov's skill. You got a high end grade on Seneca's skill too. We're not talking about a guy who we're just talking about an athlete, a six two good skater. You've got a really high grade on his skill too. And that, I don't think we kind of lost that somewhere in the conversation here. Yeah. I agree. Like I said, with Demadov, I said, like he, High Light Real Machine, but Seneca was a somewhat high light, real machine. His playoffs were unbelievable. He was really, really good at playoffs.

You just, like, you, I would just, like, have those games on my TV in the background, and you just, like, notice this guy just every single time he was on the ice. And it's a very, it's what they kind of call, like, in, you know, in baseball, like a loud toolkit. Like, that's what he has. He's, he's the pitcher who throws 103 miles per hour, and has like the wicked good breaking ball. It's like six foot sit. It's that kind of highly appealing toolkit. Just the regular season production was not there.

It's kind of fitting that they're back to back in that way. Like those two guys played the most one-on-one hockey in this draft class. Those two guys in Trevor Connolly were probably the players who with puck on their stick tried to beat defenders more than anybody else. And there's questions about both inherently as to sort of how does that translate? Is there going to be too much one and done with both of those players? Because they like to handle it and they're extremely talented. All right.

Let's take a quick break right here. When we come back, Chris is going to take us all the task on our if I were a GM mock draft. All right. We are back. And I'm going to turn this, the mic over to Chris here. He's going to lead us in this segment as he takes Corey Scott and I to task. We did a mock draft on the if I came out Thursday. It's the if I were a GM mock draft.

So the concede is pretty self-explanatory. We make the picks that we think we would make as general managers in these teams' positions rather than what we maybe anticipate or a hearing kind of thing. So really put ourselves out there on this one, and Chris is going to make us pay for it. Yeah, you know, I certainly am. But I also appreciate this method of mock drafting because it allows for different, you know, differing opinions. and also kind of gives you an idea of, you know, what could happen.

Anything off the wall could happen. And if people follow what we do, then, boy, I don't know. Hopefully those teams are okay. Pray for them. But anyway, getting to it, obviously the first three picks, you know, I don't think there's a ton of debate. There's a good chance that in some order, you know, we'll see Celebrini Demadov Levsinov.

It's not a guarantee, but it's certainly possible. But we go to number four and we go to Corey. And Corey has definitely been the highest. on this player from however long. I think you guys have already talked about him a little bit. But Corey, Columbus Blue Jackets, Carter Yakum Chuck, defend this pick. Okay. I like just like the way you phrase that.

And I don't think it's hard to defend. I think he's a defenseman with a ton of skill. Quite frankly, I thought at times game-breaking skill at the WHL level. I mean, when you saw this guy play against WTO competition, I thought he showed incredible creativity and offensive instincts and was just a constant force in creating scoring chances for the Calgary hitman. He is a 6-3 defenseman. He competes well.

He's got a little physical bite in him, even though I don't think that's the really the focus of his game. I think the debate comes down to his skating. I think, for example, that it will be like Scott and some scouts I talked to. don't like his skating ability, whereas I and other scouts I talk to don't mind the skating ability. I think it's an asset. I don't think he's had the prettiest try in the world, and his pivots at times could be a little

smoother, but I, in this guy, pulls away from pressure real easily. He can close on guys without that big an issue. I think he, you know, his transition game is excellent, particularly what combined with that high-end skill. and I think the criticism of him sometimes comes down to, well, he doesn't try to defend that much. He's always attacking. You know, does he not know he's a defenseman?

And I would say, you know, the same things were said about Pavel Minchikov in his draft year. The same things were said about Luke Hughes at times in their draft years. And he's different than those players. He's bigger than Minchikov. Nobody skates like Luke Hughes does. So there's some distinction. Yep.

You know, it's some differences from Bouchard too. Bouchard, maybe a much more cerebral, this guy, you know, more physically imposing. but I think those are all attributes. I think his dynamic offensive traits combined with an athleticism that I think will translate into the NHL makes me think this guy has a really good chance to be an impact NHL defenseman. And you're picking for Columbus knowing this is an organization that's kind of in a weird transitional period. This pick has to hit.

what you know what about the risk of a yakom chuck do you feel like there how much are you weighing that for columbus specifically what what player would you suggest it does not have risk no i'm i'm just no no i understand i'm asking you back what player would you take instead that doesn't have risk they all have some amount of risk i think his is higher i don't because i think he what i don't think there's an issue there's a risk on the skating i don't think there's a risk on the skill don't I don't think there's a risk on the side. I don't think there's a risk on the compete. Where's the risk?

Tell me what the risk is. The hockey says. I think there's risk in the re. So would you take Sam Dickinson or Lindstrom? You think they're smarter players? You think so I'm just saying. I'm just saying. I'm just,

all I'm saying is there's a lot of risk. I think, I think Steve Williams is a smarter player. Yeah. Oh, he's way smarter and he's like three, four inches shorter too. So like there's, there's always some degree of risk. Well. Moving on, because Corey is going to be stubborn and say, I'm right, you're wrong.

But as usual, he's wrong. Okay, so we move on to Montreal. And Scott, you know, look at the forwards on the board. Montreal has certainly said that they're going forward. You know, it's been interesting to watch the debate around what Montreal is going to do. We've heard Seneca. We've heard a Ginla. We've heard, you know, Lindstrom.

I feel like we haven't heard Berkeley Caton a lot. However, that's your pick for Montreal. So tell me about that. Defend it, if you will. Well, I think it starts with the sort of notion of the draft isn't what we've heard. I don't think Montreal will take Berkeley Caton. I don't think he is necessarily the player that they would view as the right fit for them in terms of the emphasis on size, et cetera.

in saying that though, I think with where they're at, I'm not sure the gap between the available defensemen is pronounced enough to take a D there, just knowing what they have coming. I like Anton Salaev. I like Steve Boyam. I think they'd be good picks there. But it does feel like forward should be the priority there. And I just have enough concerns about some of the other guys.

I'm in almost the exact same range going back to segment one. I'm at 12 on T. Giganlet to Corey's 30. I'm just not quite convinced that he's a top five, top six, top seven guy in this draft class. I think Katten has performed better than him in the WHL over the course of the last two years. Obviously a tricky conversation because Teague entered the league on one of the most loaded WHL teams at Forward that we've ever seen in the Seattle Thunderbirds. So we really only had this year to properly evaluate Teage. And Caden Lindstrom and the health in the back is enough of a question mark for me that I think

Katten, who has also been a better player in the WHL and last summer with Team Canada, then Lindstrom, it just feels like he's, he's the forward there for me. He's not going to be five on my board when it comes out next week, but he's going to be the next forward on my board there, sort of at 7-8, where he's kind of been all year. And I think because of the Reimbacker pick, because of Lane Hudson, because of Logan Mayu, Kaden Gouli, that's not a reason not to take a defenseman, but I think the gap would have to feel pretty pronounced for me to take a D there.

And as a result, I think Katten's the best forward and would probably be my pick. But I also caution that pick. That was the only pick in the draft where I think I actually wrote that I didn't love it. Yeah. It's not one that gets me excited at five in the way that I think if another team were picking in that slot, I would be excited about Azane Perak or Izzyv or in Anton Salaev, right? Just a word of advice, Scott. ever do become the GM Montreal Canadians,

I would not get in front of the cameras and say, I didn't really love our fifth overall pick. Do you know how to say that in French, though? If you could say it in French, you are talking to a bilingual Canadian. That's true. Oh, well, we don't have time for the French lesson. I'm kidding.

But anyway, just because I feel like Max needs to talk, because I thought Max was just on fire. He killed you guys. Absolutely killed you guys on this one. I mean, Caden Lindstrom at 9. Come on now. Max, I do want to talk to you about your pick for Utah because you picked Anton Zelaya.

We know that they picked Simashev last year, Daniel Boot. Suddenly, I mean, they were the Arizona Coyotes then. But just because they moved to Utah, didn't mean they suddenly got afraid of Russia. You know, defend your pick here. Because I think that now you're, asking for we're talking about a different kind of risk here yeah but it's it's this now we've got a lot

of russian players and who knows when they're going to get here and we've got three of them it's a good question and i you know it was something that i i kind of was in my head psyched myself up like dude is this unrealistic kind of thing but at the end of the day i felt selyev's toolkit was just something you can't really find anywhere else in this draft at this point and really in most drafts There's just not that many defensemen as big as him that skate like him that have really any puck game to speak of. And so I felt like it was an opportunity you don't want to miss out on it. I did consider that there's a case to be made here to target like a Bouillon or maybe even a Perak because I think they have kind of in Simashev your big mobile stopper type.

But I don't think you only need one of those. I think ideally you want three or four of those. And I think it's maybe a little easier to find your power play one quarterback, which they do still, I think, need unless they see Shunders. is kind of their long-term answer. And I think there's a case for Boy. He might be awesome. And I think there's a good chance he will be.

But I felt like you keep going with those, you know, kind of foundational big mobile stoppers that can play a two-way game. And you might not see another Salia for seven years in the draft kind of thing in terms of the size and the mobility factor and the compete factor there. That's what I was even mentioning Mavlamorah, too. Like that's, yeah. Those are some big boys. But I think that's what you want, right?

Like if you watch the NHL playoffs, this is how a lot of the teams still standing are built. Maybe not even quite to this extent. But I see that as a positive. No, I think that's true. And certainly, you know, Arizona was drafted with the tape measure for the last couple drafts. So, except for, hey, Logan Cooley, give him credit for that one. It was a good pick. And, yeah, I mean, and I think the other guys are good picks, too.

It's going to be really interesting to see. I think the other thing, the other factor that I think Bill Armstrong is going to have to take into consideration here is, hey, this is a new market. This is, how does that change the dynamic of your team building? How does that change the dynamic of your timeline? Because I think one thing that I'm looking at, especially like with Seattle, there is a business component to the draft. There is a, you have to sell tickets.

And, you know, you basically are trying to get the players that you think are going to be the best for that. But sometimes that means that you have to shift your priorities a little bit. It would be interesting to see. But, you know, with that, you know, you guys have the puck movers going. I think it arranged that's very similar, you know, Booiam to Ottawa, correct to Seattle that was by Corey and Scott there. You know, Cain Lindstrom dropping down to nine, which I think is actually still very realistic in this class.

But then, you know, Corey, you've got Sam Dickinson to the Devils. So you've got a team that's got Luke Q's that's got Simon Nemich and why Sam Dickinson does he fit, why does he fit into that group? I think if one of those big defensemen, be it Celaya, be it Dickinson, be at Yakim Chuck, even Solberg on the extent of this conversation, but probably not one of those other guys, gets to the devil's pick. I think he's really enticing, in particular Dickinson. I think in order for Yakim Chuck to be successful to maximize his values and asset,

he needs to be on your power play, which they can be. You saw, albeit it was a short length of Colorado, tried, the multiple defensemen on a power play, strategy when all their well skilled players were defensemen. But I think in an ideal world, when you draft Dickinson, this guy, you know, has offense, point per game on a great team in London this year, second power play guy for them. He has legit puck skills. He has a huge shot from the point. He has offense.

But I think if you draft Sam Dickinson, he succeeds in a role where he has to match up against other teams best players and use his elite skating in length and in his strong compete to make a lot of stops, to kill penalties, to be. really good at even strength. And if you're not counting on this guy to be a 30, 40 point producer for you, I think he can have incredible success. You know, put him right next to Luke and let Luke kind of like run around the ice doing this thing. And you could have Sam there being the more steady presence. I think that would be a great fit for New Jersey as opposed to just adding more skill at forward or on defense frankly. I think this team has both on their

team, you know, and even come up in the pipeline, they have lots of skill, but I think they lack some of those more dynamic two-way components. I want to see the 3D power play. We've got Oliver Bonk in the bumper for the London Knights here in Saginaw right now. Oh, man. Well, Colorado tried that, right? I think briefly they did. Yeah, they did.

Yeah. And you know what? So here's the other reason why I asked specifically about this pick, Corey. And it's not just because of the defensive, but, you know, Beck and Seneca is higher on your list than Sam Dickinson is. So I just was curious about the calculus there. Is it team specific, I suppose? Yes, very team specific.

That was probably the toughest pick I had to make in this exercise. I personally have Beckett Seneca rated as a better player than Sam Dixon's. But I put myself in the shoes of the New Jersey Devils, just like I know Scott that he would struggle with with Canada there, given you already have Nick Suzuki there. You have two 5-11 top six centers. That's a dilemma. Same thing here with Seneca is like, I love him.

But can he coexist on a team with Yes for Brett and Timo Meyer and Alex Holtz? Is Dawson Mercer or sender a wing? If he's a winger, then, okay, how many top six wing positions are there? Is Jack Hughes a wing now all of a sudden? He didn't play much. I know he was hurt. He didn't play inconsistent center there towards the second half of the season. So now it's like, do we have too much gaps here on the wing?

And the same thing, as I said earlier with the Aka-Chuk, you have to maximize this asset. You can't just draft based on what you think your team is right now because teams change, but you have to at least consider it as a tiebreaker or if it's close. And I think it is close. I think Sam Dickinson is a hell of a player. And I think there is a lot more opportunity for him to succeed and to maximize his asset than to take a highly skilled winger who you are going to have to find a way to jam into one of your power pole units. Because Beckett Seneca is not going to be a successful player for you if he's killing penalties.

Yeah, that's, it's interesting. I think it's well defended. So, counselor, good job. But it's going to be fascinating to see what they ultimately do. I think, like you mentioned Alexander Holtson there. How much does he really have to factor into the discussion at this point when you're talking about Seneca? It's more about Mercer, Meyer, Brad. Yes, yeah, those are the variables that I was more considering in that regard.

You know, I think New Jersey, I think there's two teams with those top 15 picks, New Jersey, and right after them Buffalo, where they feel like prime candidates that, I hate saying they're going to trade a pick because nobody ever trades picks. But I feel like there's at least a decent chance one of those two teams actually trades that pick. Yeah, and that brings me to the Buffalo next

because I wanted to talk to Scott about this one as well. And it is this, this is a tricky range of the draft. I feel like this 10 to 14 range is, is going to be interesting to watch based on what happens up above. But you went with Cole, Iserman here. The issue that I would pose to you is we look at the forward makeup of the Buffalo Sabers.

And yes, they have guys like Alex Tuck and others that are that are that are established on their team already. But their draft has been primarily sub six foot players for the last couple of years. So, you know, Cole Iserman is right on the cusp of be 511, 510, you know, somewhere in there. So just Scott, you know, where how, how did you arrive at Cole Iserman for? for Buffalo specifically. Part of it is a matter of just who's left. Tijiginla and Cole Eisenman are about the same size. Constellanius is a smaller center.

So, yeah, there is a lot left that looks a lot like what they've gone after in recent drafts. And on the flip side, does that give you enough license to go out and take a swing and really take a deeper cut? I don't think it does. I like the idea of operating from a position of strength. They've got an excellent pool, one of the more talented group of groups of young players in the league. Obviously, we saw Zach Benson this year, but Matt Savoy, Yuri Kulich,

JJ Petrke is a young piece of that core. There's a lot there. The blue line is already established. We know that their sort of core four on the blue line is going to be there for moving forward. It's a big group of four, especially sort of the addition of Bowen-Vyrim to that group with Owen Power, Rasmus Delene and Matthias Samuelson. Despite the fact that they've not made the playoffs and Sabers fans will hate me for saying this because they're always so down on their team.

They're actually, they are in a good spot in terms of that young group and the talent they have. So why not? They feel like exactly the team that should take a player like Cole Eisen. And why not take a swing on somebody who could pound the puck into the net and score big goals for you and potentially be a game breaker for you down the line? And if he doesn't work out or doesn't hit, like you're hoping he'll go, he's going to hit, you're in a position that other teams who can't take that risk on Cole Eisenman aren't in, where you've got guys coming.

You've got sort of depth in terms of what your pool looks like, both the upfront and obviously those big four sort of studs that they've got on their blue line long term now. So part of it was just Eginla and Heleneas. Those guys already also look a lot like them. And I just have a preference to Eisman over a player like Eginler or Heleneas. The one who's maybe different, who I thought about there, is Beckett. Yeah.

Who obviously adds a little bit more of that length. but in Tuck and Tage Thompson, they've got a little bit of that too already. So it's a, I think they're, as Corey mentioned, I think they could trade that pick to try to upgrade their roster. But I think if not, they're in a position of just go after something. Like take a big cut and Eisenman obviously feels like that.

Yeah. Yeah, no, I think that's fair. And it's going to be really interesting to see what they ultimately do because I do think that the trade is a real option for Buffalo based on what they built in their system. And yeah, I mean, I just feel like, you know, Seneca might be the guy that would offer something a little different in their prospect pool, but he is kind of similar to what they have on the NHL roster.

I do, sorry, Corey, did you want to jump in on that? Okay. I do want to get back to Max because there was one thing that we did. I'm going a little bit backward, so I apologize for skipping around. But Max, I did want to ask you, at number nine, Calgary, Tishiglin was on the board. Yeah. And you took Caden, Lindstrom.

do you want to, you know, ever, like say you're the general manager of Calgary, would you like to reside in that city? Yeah, I think it's, I get the question is basically like the fans are going to riot because you didn't take the franchise legend son. But I would compare that riot to the one that would riot if Caden Lindstrom becomes a star and Tija Gindler was like a good but not amazing winger. And I'm accused of a nepotism pick, right? Like, that's how I would have to view it.

I think Caden Lindstrom is a better player than Tijiginla, not by like, you know, an unfathomable amount. And I realize there's risk with the medicals. But when I see a six foot four center who skates well, competes well, has some, has quite a bit of skill. I think the chances of that player outperforming Tijiginla are better than 50%. And so I would prefer the short term hit and people questioning me, especially pretty early in my tenure, uh, to what it would look like, uh, three or four years down the road if, if, you know, I think Corey's comp on him is Chris Cris.

And if he's Chris Kreider and if Tejigin was like a good second line wing, I think I'd be in a lot more trouble for that. Yeah. Yeah. No, and I think that I think that's fair. And, you know, I did read Corey. I know I saw you and Julian McKenzie did a piece together on if they should take Teige. And, you know, Todd Button had some commentary in there as well. And it's just been it, to me, it's been fascinating because I think the three of us are very similar.

like the three of us prospect writers and then Max I you know you're in the mix here um but the three prospect writers are the one prospect podcaster the prod past the prospect adjacent very talented beat writer um but we're we're in a similar range on tige and that's below where calgary is going to pick i mean i do think that there is going to be some external pressure but i think we're all in agreement that and i'd correct me if i'm wrong if you he's there and say it's the situation like we just saw with Caden Lindstrom. I mean, how do you, how do you parse that out? But I think it ought to be fair to say that that's what we tend to universally agree on

among the group of us. But I'd all say it's fair that it's not really what the league thinks. I think there's a decent portion of the league that thinks he'd be a very reasonable pick at nine. Yeah, that's fair. And from a from a bullet standpoint, if you're a general manager, he also feels, just from a fan base perspective that he'd be a popular pick for anybody.

Like he's one of the guys Corey and I and Chris. Like he's one of the guys we all get asked about the most and it's because people love the idea. Rightly or wrongly, probably more wrongly for the wrong reasons in terms of the name and where he comes from and the idea of his dad.

But he's he's not, I don't think he's going to be disliked by whoever, whoever picks him. Yeah, I think he's. That's not just a Calgary thing. Like that's every fan base seems to. Right. Yeah, I like, they're hoping it's the next, like the Chuck thing.

Like it's, and I understand the inclination. Like I said, I think there's some notable differences there at the same point in time, but I understand the inclination of seeing this highly skilled player with the bloodlines and thinking, oh, if the dad was elite, the son's going to be elite too. Yeah. Well, I'm going to stick with Max here, too, because this is, this is on behalf of Flyers Nation, to be honest with you. You picked Beck at Seneca, uh, who,

who, you know, if you listen to what Corey said about him earlier in the podcast, if you're a Flyers fan, that should be exciting, right? Apparently not. Not for, they don't want a wing. Tell me, tell me more about the grief you've been getting Max and how you defend the Beckett Seneca pick. Well, I think Flyers fans don't like the idea of a wing. They feel they're pretty stocked at wing. And I can understand that they used the pick on Mavavim last year. Probably the strengths of their team at the NHL level right now are more on the wing with connect knee and a tippet. And so I get that. My thing was, I guess, two or maybe even threefold.

I think number one, Seneca was my best player left. And so that's going to be my default. I didn't think it was that close to the next best player for me. But I also think that when you look at the centers, which I think would have been their preference, I'm not sure that there's a no doubt center there on the board there. Like maybe Consta Hellenius is probably your best bet. but I do see a little bit of rhyme with him and Marco Rossi, and I think it's a little bit of an open question.

If Rossi is going to be a center or a wing and with the size factor with Heleneas, you have to at least consider that. And I just felt like even though Heleneas is a really good offensive player, I'm going to prefer kind of the tools of Seneca, not just the size. I think the skating is a different level. I think the skill for Seneca for me would be better than Heleneas, although Helenex is a really smart player,

and I think that's his best bet to stick at center. But long way of saying, I just don't think it's a sure enough thing that he is a center for me to go past, to like skip over the best player available component and chase a center who might end up a wing anyway. The better argument I think would be on defense, but I just felt like the gap was such that I wanted to go with Seneca. My two comps at various points to see her for Hellenius, when I've been really high on him and seen the really good games,

I think, oh, he reminds me a lot of Robert Thomas. Look at the skill, look at the hockey sense. He competes. He's a good skater, but maybe he's not that physically imposing. but he's so detailed in good two ways. He's going to for sure be in NHL center. Then you see maybe the not good games. Like say the U18s, for example.

We're like, okay, like he's talented, but it's not like dynamic talent. He's a good skater. You compete. Like, yeah, there's a good, it's not blow you away talent. And then that's where I ended up with Max Domi. And if you get Robert Thomas,

you're thrilled. That's the first line center. You get Max Domi. It's maybe second line center in his best years. So, you know, when you get Robert Thomas, get to a player that caliber, you have to be really sure he's a center if you're taking him because of the position for a significant reason. I think the defensive play will help Consta that

way, where Max has been a borderline liability for much of his career in his own zone. Consta, it's a real strength. But do you think that we've seen against NHL speed, do you think we've seen him be a shutdown defensive play? Like, league is a different, it's a different game. And really all of Europe is there's you defend a little bit differently than you do in the NHL and I'm still curious I even maybe say nervous at how he's going to do defending NHL level speed I think we saw it in the league of playoffs where the level is higher and in his first couple of exhibition games with the finish national team where he was he was excellent in a second line center role now that's six playoff games and two internet we're talking eight games right but he was he was really really

good in that's in that stretch it's the the softening has happened since then I think with U-18s and men's worlds where he kind of bounced in and out of the lineup. And I do like him. I think he's going to be a good NHL player. It's just to me, to be sold on center, I want to really know all those things about him, and especially to pick him because he's a center, then I would really need to know that he is for sure a center. So that's where I want with Seneca.

All right. Well, hopefully that's satisfactory to Flyers fans. It's certainly satisfactory to me, Max. I thought it was fine. You know, I, the. The next one that I want to go to, I'm going to go back to Corey, and we've already talked about the player at length, but I just, just touching on it. The Minnesota Wild are kind of in an interesting place.

They were in the mushy middle this year, you know, in terms of the way that they performed. You know, they've obviously got some key young forwards in the system. They've got different players that are going to be, you know, potentially making an impact. I think that they were expecting more of their second wave of defense, guys like Carson Lambo's, Damon Hunt, and, you know, David Spachek even, and didn't necessarily have great seasons in the HL this year. And so you went with Dionne Solberg for them. I don't think it would be a super exciting pick for the wild,

but what do you think it would be, you know, why did you go that way for Minnesota specifically? Well, I mean, I feel perfectly calm about it. I mean, I know from just reading our comments that are, the wild fans are very, patient, calm hockey fans and would take it in stride and wouldn't call from my head at all. But in all seriousness, I mean, we talked about Soulberg earlier in the episode. I thought he'd be the best player there. I think outside of the consensus top group of defensemen, I think he has the best chance to become a true top flight defenseman in this draft class.

I think he checks all the boxes. The one question was offense, but I think he checked it by the end of the season. not a whole lot of players you can say at this range in the draft who check all the boxes you know his Norwegian counterpart Branson Niga maybe one of the last players left you can say that about

but I prefer the defenseman to the wing and I think I mean here's the thing with Minnesota it's like yeah this is my best player available this is who I would take but I think thinking bigger about Minnesota is I do wonder what's the path for this team

like what's the plan here how do they become a contender again? Because I'm really not sure what the path is for this team. And that's with Caprazov in the fold. Never mind if they don't get Caprazov extent. That's a whole other set of issues. But like presuming Caprazov's in the fold, like I don't know based on what they have in their roster,

what they have in their farm system, even though I like Walsett, I like Yorov. You know, Ross, he's a good young player. They have good young players, but I just don't know what the plan is to become a contender. I'm not sure picking anybody a 13th overall, quite frankly, is going to change that trajectory. Yeah, so here, that's probably true.

I think that's true usually the 13th overall. But there's a lot of, there's a lot of other interesting picks in this draft. I mean, I think that as we get past this 13, 14, 15 range, you know, like, or probably, you know, I don't know, maybe like closer to 20. You're saying, okay, well,

there's probably not a huge variance. So I thought it was more important to focus on some of the top guys. Some of the other interesting things will just kind of throw these out there. We're not going to really debate them, but just kind of throw them out there. I mean, you know, Max Trevor Connolly at 24 to, to Colorado, you know, kind of an interesting dynamic there. It's obviously with all the different things surrounding Trevor Connolly. You know, Corey had Charlie Ellick, a very defensive-minded defenseman going to Ottawa right after that. You know, and similarly, I actually just did a mock draft myself on my podcast.

And Sasha Blavere was there for Montreal. and it wasn't the typical, hey, Montreal's going to draft French-Canadian because they usually don't. But, I mean, I think that's a really fair range for that player and an interesting one. Max then going ahead and saying, oh, of course Carolina is going to pick a Russian, and they get Yeager Sur in there. So a lot of really interesting picks kind of down that. Make sure you check out that list on the athletic with all these three guys. They definitely put their work in. They did some critical thinking.

I might not agree with everything they said, but I think that you guys definitely brought it, brought some very interesting perspectives to. it and that is going to allow fans to kind of see a very different look. And the other thing I want to point out before we get off of the mock draft is one of the scouts told me is like, you know, you guys that do this in the public, you know, there's a certain element to that. It's like if I had to put my list out into the public, I would get ripped to shreds because they look wildly different at times.

So when you think there's an actual consensus, there isn't always and that's why I think an exercise like this is very valuable. So that is going to wrap it up for my audit. I turn it back over to the very capable hands of Max Boltman to continue hosting the show. And with my first act, let's take a break. All right, we're back and we're talking about the Memorial Cup. Corey and I were both there last weekend. Scott's there right now.

I'm going to drive back up tomorrow for the semi-final. So I'll see Scott there. We can go to dinner maybe. And I want to start, Scott, with one of the players you wrote a feature on this week. And that's Zane Perak. He's on the host, Saginaw Spirit. it. Obviously, a name listeners are going to be very familiar with a potential top 10 pick in this draft. What do you see in so far from Zane at this event? And tell us a little more about what you've learned

at him being around him this week. Yeah, well, I've really been working on this all year. I started conversations with people about him in the fall, just knowing that he was quite likely going to become a bit of a polarizing figure in this draft class and then sort of touch base with him and Monkton and have spoken to all sorts of people around him just to really piece it together because he's a fascinating kid, extremely smart, graduated high school at 15, 16 years old before he even entered the OHL, sort of classic, like likes to challenge his coaches and likes to be sort of play his game, play his style. When people have criticized him throughout the last two years, really, he has just sort of leaned further into what he does well rather than trying to sort of

change his game to appease scouts kind of thing. And then this week, it just feels like he, even though this is the last talk he being played and people are having their final meetings literally today, I was speaking with someone who was in a final Scouts meeting today, it still feels like this hockey matters for him in terms of the way that he's viewed by scouts. Like he's just a guy who's had to constantly prove it. And I think by and large, he's been very good through three games. I was speaking with Chris Lazaria this morning about him. They've outscored the opposition, the three best teams in the CHL eight to two at five on five with him on the ice in this tournament. That is tremendous for a draft eligible player.

He's playing 30 minutes a night. The only reason he hasn't touched 30 minutes in one of the games was because he was in the box for four, for a double minor for high sticking. And I think the big thing that I've noticed about him, really as this season has progressed, is kind of the mouthiness and the chippiness that has come. I think he's developed a really big chip on his shoulder this year in terms of the way he's viewed. And the big criticism was that he wasn't tough enough, firm enough, hard enough on pucks.

And now there's a lot more of that. He's grabbed Casper Halton and it was like 230 pounds, the biggest player on either of the teams last night after a whistle. And he's constantly chirping guys between whistles and that kind of thing. I think he might be trying to do that a little bit too much of that. But the offense has been there in the tournament. He's defending really well. He broke up a ton of plays against London with his stick last night.

He's been great on the penalty kill. He had a two-minute PK that he stayed out on last night. It was tremendous on. And there's been some real development in his game. And then on top of that, he's still such a unique sort of one-of-one player. Like he just looks so different out there than most players that you expect to go in the top ten. So I think he's going to be fascinating to watch over the next, really the next two, three, four years, his career and his trajectory is going to be a pretty unique one. And I think he's going to either prove a lot of people wrong or become a sort of true singular player star level type in the NHL.

he's going to be really interesting in terms of what a team does with him after they draft him because he dominated the OHL this year. And I would really be hard pressed to say from watching him, even at the MEP Cup, that he looks at NHL ready. I think he'd have a lot of issues in the NHL next year, particularly defensively. So I think he's going to be one of those classic cases where he's probably stuck in the middle, where I think he's this exceptional junior player who's probably going to destroy the oh-h-l next year if he goes back but probably isn't quite ready for the n-h-l he's also quite if he goes

back quite likely going to be traded like saginod's going to be hitting a hard reset and he'll end up on another contending team he'll play at the world juniors i think the world juniors actually could be good for him to see him on that stage with hockey canada because the pandemic he hasn't really had a major stage with hockey canada he would have played at u-18s this year had they not been the mem cup hosts and that kind of a thing so that that piece of the puzzle for him is interesting at least for next year is the world juniors and playing in another deep playoff run. Those are really the only silver linings because Corey's right. The track record and like what's he got?

He's going to go from 96 to 105 points next year. Like what's what's left? Is it feasible, Corey, if you send him back to kind of tell him, hey, you're drafted now. We know what you can do. As an NHL team, do you have the cachet? There obviously is OHL team still going to want to rely on him for offense? Do you have the cachet to say, hey, we want you to really lock in on

defense and have that be the thing you think about most in this next season? Maybe. I hear that from people a lot. I usually hear that when they try to defend a guy who didn't have a good ear. But I don't know whether that's actually a thing people actually try to do is how their elite skill players. Hey, you stop scoring so much. Not stop scoring. I think we could agree that there's certain risks that you take. Yeah, yeah. Who is the coffee for you, Scott, in the NHL on that player. I always come back to kind of like a Mike Green, if he can really sort of hit like Mike Green in the prime of his career was running the best power play in the league.

Was Green not a better skater though? Like more like more like I don't think green. I don't think Green was ever a high end skater personally. I mean people, people throw around Eric Carlson, but Eric Carlson's just because it's a stick, all of the stick defending. Eric Carlson's at three time Norris winner first ballot hall of famer. That's a different level. I do think stylistically, there are some similarities there.

just the heavy reliance on breaking up plays with your stick, which Carlson has kind of perfected over the course of his career. But no, there isn't, Mike Green is probably the one I go to the most often in my head. Yeah, I like that one. All right. So the other big draft eligible defenseman at this event is Sam Dickinson from London, different style of player. But a really good player nonetheless.

And Corey, we'll start with you here. We were at Dickinson's opening game of the tournament. what have you seen watching him so far? A lot of what you've always seen, the skating stands out, the skill stands out, the defending stands out. And this is a guy who has performed really well

for London all season. That being said, he probably has not been the featured defenseman on London this year. Zane Perrek has been asked to do everything for Sagina this year, whereas quite frankly, San Dickinson has to do a lot for London,

but this has been all over Bonk's team this season. And Bonk was, you know, I think you could argue right behind Perrek, the second best defenseman in the OHL this season, playing massive amounts of minutes, getting a unique usage in that bumper spot on their first power play all season, and just being a match-up guy and just logging huge amounts of minutes. But Dickinson, I think, you know, is going to, you know, it's going to be a really high picture because of how good an athlete he is.

He's six-three. He can fly. He can make some plays with a puck. really nice assist in that first game for them against Drummondville. Just an impressive player. I don't know if he's really elevated his stock from this tournament, just because I think he's done a lot of, maybe at times, inconsistent puck moving and all those other good positives.

It's been really much the story of what you've seen before. I think with Dixon, if you believe there's legitimate offense, if you think his hockey sense is good enough, he's got a chance to be a top five, top six pick in this year's draft. If you're a little bit more concerned on that stuff, how much offense there's going to be. I hear the name Noah Hannantham thrown around a lot with this player. He might be closer to a six to ten guy in this year's trip.

There was some sloppiness inside of his own zone, trying to break pucks out and not moving them quickly enough last night, which is really the one thing that's been a hitch for teams with him. They like everything else about him, but under pressure, he doesn't read the game super, super well. There is a London factor, though, in the NHL draft. People love London players, and London players have good track records.

And I think there are people who absolutely adore Dixon, It would not shock me at all to hear him get called in the top five, even though I don't know if that's currently where I would mock him right now. And the other one who I think is going to get the London bump is Sam O'Reilly. I've liked Sam O'Reilly's playoff a lot. I've liked his M. I think this is a well-rounded center. He competes. Really nice goal as well in this tournament.

He's displaying his skill. He can skate well. I think he's going to be a high second round pick. And I would not fall off my chair if he went like 2930, 31 in this year's draft. heck of a play on the stick lift to find Easton Cowan just inside the offensive zone blue line to set up that game winner with a minute and a half left last night too. He's made three or four really big plays for that team in this tournament. And that's really in his role as a middle six guy with that group,

that's what he has to do. And he's been consistent very good. I think of like where Christian DeVorek went in his draft year on that loaded London team. And he had less offense than O'Reilly did this year. So that's why I could see him. Devorah, I'm in the mid-second, and I could see O'Reilly go even higher than that. I think, Scott, your point about the reading the game is interesting, because I am a big Dickinson fan, but I have to say in that first game, there were a few moments like what you're describing,

where it felt a little rush. There's a play that's kind of stuck in my mind where he had a forward with the puck close to the offensive blue line, and Dickinson's rotation kind of boxed the forward into a place where he didn't really have anywhere to go and put his teammate in a bad spot. And that's kind of something that stuck with me. And I think Corey's point about the Hanifan thing is interesting. We were talking about it on the drive back. When you say Hanifin to me, I hear that as a really big compliment.

And I think sometimes it gets used as, oh, what if he's just Hanifin kind of thing? And I would love to hear your thoughts, Scott, on if a Hanifin comp, is that a selling point to you? Or is that a not a knock? But you know what I mean? A limitation, I suppose. I think if you watched Hanifin with Vegas this year, I thought he was tremendous for them. Like he was a top four defenseman on the defending Stanley Cup champs. Now they didn't sort of repeat obviously.

But I mean, Noah Hannafin's a very good width-sized top four defenseman in the NHL. He makes what, seven, what's his current deal? Seven, eight million dollars a year? Like if you're getting a seven, eight million dollar defenseman at whatever, eight, nine overall, seven overall, I don't think you're sort of losing your job over that 10 years now or sort of regretting it. not be a huge hit, hit, hit in that kind of a range. But, no, I think that's an appropriate comp. Yeah, I think so, too.

The times are I've watched Dickinson and I've loved him. Like, when you see the offense, it's clicking, the puck moving, he looks like Jake Sanderson. And that's not where I ended up at the end of the year. But if you, the believers in this player, see that type of potential in it. And the play, Corey, that you're referencing the Drummondville assist is the kind of thing that the believers are going to want to put. at the very front of their clip package on Dickinson there because it's a cross-slop-ass.

And they're going to say this guy was a second power play guy, I still scored a point per game in the OHL this year. Like they're going to say there is offense there. You're underselling it, et cetera. And I could buy it. Dickinson and Lindstrom were two of the hardest players for me to rate this year. Because I felt like when I was grading their hockey sense, they were right on the precipice for me of giving them a higher grade.

And that would have changed my assessment of their play. Because if you think Lynchstrom has average NHL hockey since he's a top five pick. If you think Dickinson has average NHL hockey since, he's a top five pick. And I could buy those arguments on both players, even if I didn't get there by the end of the year. And to Corey's point about the offense, I think it gets lost in this draft class because we've got Zane Perak and Carter Yakumchuk, who scored 30 goals. Scoring 20 goals is a defenseman in the OHL at 17 on a team like the London Knights when you're playing on the second power plate. that's a very hard thing to do. It's an accomplishment.

So there is some offense there. All right. We're going to go rapid fire a little bit on this last section. We don't unfortunately have a ton of time left to devote to the drafted players. There are a few big names at this event. So I just want to get a quick thought from both of you guys on a drafted player who has really impressed you so far at the M.Cup. We'll start with Scott. I think Casper Haltonin, maybe it's just recancy bias from last night.

But Casper Haltonin really sort of has popped for me a little bit, just here, but in the OHL playoffs, he actually had, by all accounts, it doesn't matter who you ask, even people around the OHL rival coaches and that kind of thing. I think people were disappointed in the impact that he had on that team outside of the power play this year in the regular season. Like he pounded that one-timer and that was largely his contributions. Then he became a third line five-on-five player after they traded for Caleb Lawrence at the deadline. And even as a third line, five-on-five player, he just started filling the net. And he's done that in this tournament. And he's just so much bigger and stronger than everybody else that he kind of gets to his spots.

And then once he gets there, he's got a, like, a legitimately high-end NHL-level shot. The big thing with Halton, it is I think he's a little, he's a little too heavy. Like, he's going to have to lose some weight probably and sort of work on his fitness and that kind of a thing to play in the NHL. But he's been, he's been really for the last two months for London. Like, he's, he's been a force. Everybody talks about Easton Cowan and Denver Barky up front. them.

But Haltinen became a sort of real presence for them. So that's positive for him after a sort of mediocre to disappointing quote-unquote rookie season in the OHL. Corey, how about you? The Ottawa pick on Saginaw, Jory and Donovan was definitely a guy who I was impressed by. I mean, again, just in the little games that I've watched the MEP Cup there. I think, you know, he is an excellent, excellent skater with a decent size.

He looks like a clear NHL level skater, and that the puck moving is just okay. Like, I think he has a toolkit that projects the league. I thought in the couple of games I watched, he looked like an NHL defenseman. I don't know whether that puck moving is going to be consistent and be of that level as he goes up to play versus men. But that was definitely a guy who I noticed a lot in a positive way, with a lot of traits that look like somebody who could help all out of what down the line. Stay tuned to Theathletic.com for an upcoming story on Jory and Donovan. That's how we do it, folks. I'd throw a balk into that conversation, too, guys, by the way.

I really loved him in the game that I watch. I think he looks really complete, looks like a top four at HL defenseman to me, and really impressed by him. It exceeded my expectations in that first game that I was at. That is going to do it for us today, guys. Great episode. Thanks for listening to this episode of The Athletic Hockey Show. You can read Scott and Corey's stuff at Theathletic.com.

You can also catch more of Chris over at Flow Hockey and on his podcast Talking Hockey Sense. We got a lot more coming on all avenues. We'll talk to you soon.