The Athletic Hockey Show - Is another 'Tankathon' already on in Buffalo?

Episode Date: October 15, 2025

In possibly the earliest 'tankathon' debate in NHL history, Gentille, McIndoe and Corrado discuss the never ending rebuild in Buffalo, the winless Sabres early season defensive and offensive struggles and if there will ever be light at the end of the tunnel. The guys take a trek around New York state, and talk about the Rangers goaless record to start the year at home, the promising upside of Islanders rookie Matthew Schaefer before they head west to discuss the darkhorse Seattle Kraken and Anaheim Ducks. Plus, Gentille gives his scouting report on Gavin McKenna and McIndoe presents his NHL prediction contest findings.Hosts: Sean Gentille and Sean McIndoeWith: Frank CorradoExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Jeff DometWatch full episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowJoin our Discord Server: https://discord.gg/VTm9VjkFSubscribe to The Athletic: https://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. What up, what up? It's the Athletic Hockey Show Wednesday edition. I'm Sean Titale. I'm here with Frankie Carrado and Sean McIndoo. I am in my spare bedroom. McIndoo is in his typical recording spot on a dining room table somewhere. Frankie seems to be in a very tasteful hotel. Yes. Yeah.

Out in Montreal, buddy, and I'm bummed to report this, but our little sandwich shop that we like here in Montreal, all. I went to go grab a nice, like, Italian pinini after morning skate, and it wasn't there. It was just gone. And my heart sunk a little bit, truly. Did you, you got to do some recon on this. We got to, we got to figure out what happened. What's, what's moving in? Is everybody okay? I don't know, man. I don't know. It's, it's tough out there. I hope everyone's all right, but I will miss, I will miss the sandwiches from this place. They were truly elite. Connor McDavid of Italian and Paninis. That's what these were. Yeah. So it was, uh, not the, not the Gavin McKenna of, of Panini's too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too,

so they were, they were super good but cheap. Is that, uh, maybe that's why they went out of business. Yeah. That's, that's why McIndoo's the king. I was like groping for something like that and couldn't find it. I'm still just taken aback by the news of this man. Like, I ate there three consecutive days during the first round of the playoffs last year. wonderful, cheap, very nice people in there. It's a dark day. It's a dark day, buddy. It's a dark day. But it's, it's dark days for some of these teams. Is it not? There it is. There it is. Dude, I, like, there's, there's some teams and some fan bases with some serious scar tissue. And I wouldn't be surprised after three or

four games. There are certain fans that went on Tankathon already, which I think is just the craziest move at this point in the season, but they're just so used to things going south at this point and then never going back north that tankathon, like, if you could run the analytics on the tankathon website and see where are most of your hits coming from right now, is it all New York state? We're really big in Western New York, say the tankathon people. Wow, we've got a big green dot coming from the Western half of that state. People love talking about NHY show parody, I think, but

and it's true. There's something he said for that, but also, like, the teams that, yeah, the teams that everybody knew were tank threats early on, like, lo and behold, here we are. It's, it's a lot of, it's a lot of Sabre stuff. It's a lot of

New York-based stuff. You know, Calgary's off, off to a slow start, too. Let's frame it this way. does everybody think the Sabres are at the top of the oh God it's happening again rankings because that kind of feels like that's what this is.

It has to be like if you're a Sharks fan or a Hawks fan you knew what you were in for this year. If you're a Sabres fan, you also knew but you knew in a different way, a different and more depressing way because I mean, Buffalo fan, they know the numbers by now, right? 14 years.

And you just heading off season where on paper, they maybe got worse. I mean, traded a top six forward for two very good young players. But for opening night at least, maybe you're even worse than you were to finish the season. But you do. Like the cliches are true. Every new season, it's a fresh set of ice. everyone's tied for first all of the

like you you do look at a team and you go maybe maybe this is the year and then I mean 0 and 3 right out of the gate and it's it's like oh okay we're doing this again 79 games to go until the lottery

what were the reasons for optimism in Buffalo they were other than the fact that it needs to happen at some point like that's like the calendar changed got literally pieces they have

They felt like they had goal tending, which they don't have because of injury, which for a lot of teams would cause you to say, let's put a pin in this and not evaluate yet. But 14 years kind of, it's not, it's, it's, I think I wrote this over the weekend. Other teams, we can say it's only three games. In Buffalo, it's 14 years and three games. So, bingo. Exactly. And you, okay, so I blame, I blame the analytics community as a whole. everyone involved in analytics.

That's who's to blame for Buffalo Sabres expectations being anything but what they should be, which is the team has a lot of work to do and a lot of ground to make up. Because if you're a Sabers fan and you want to grasp any kind of hope, as the analytic kind of models were showing the Sabers going to be a pretty good team, could be third place in the Atlantic Division. And Sabers fans probably looked at that and said, wow, like this, I don't want to buy into it. I don't want to get my heartbroken, but this actually could be the year. And then for them to have the start that they've had where of all the things that have gone wrong,

you know, you guys, you mentioned the injuries, the fact that they have scored two goals so far this year, a team that scoring goals has not been the issue for them. Like, they have scored at a pretty high rate the last few seasons. It's been keeping them out of their net and being organized that way. But now for it to be injury central, leaky, no goalie that, like, is supposed to be a net, and now you can't even score, it's almost like it got worse in a way when three, four weeks ago, there were analytic models telling you actually could be a pretty good team. that's that's tough if you're the Sabres because you got a little bit of hope and you just got it pulled away like not even five games into the year.

I mean, we can put a pin in it for Dom too. Like we can call out Dom here. The Dom analytic model had them about 88 or 89 points, 30% chance to make the playoffs. I mean, it's not good. It's not good, right? But it's still, you know, we're conditioned because of who this team is and who this. been. Like, you hear that, and it's like, okay, they're basically projected to be a mediocre, like, middle of the table team. And it's still, even then, even early, it felt, it felt like too much because I think we started edging around this earlier. A huge part of the projection with them was like, well, their power play can't be as bad as it was last year, right? And, like, yeah, it is. And also Josh Norris is hurt now. They were coming into a season with Josh Norris. as a one C, which is already a little bit of a specious proposition, I'd say, and he's, and he's hurt. And it's sad because it's another shoulder issue for Josh Norris, and we've seen

him deal with that at various points throughout his career, right? But man, it's a fan base that's just conditioned to expect every break to go against them. And I think the early returns on the season for them is like, yeah, that's, that's kind of what happened, right? Ucopecalaukin's hurt and blah, blah, they can just start going down the list of all the stuff. And, of all the stuff that's already gone wrong for them, and that's just the way it goes. Parody does not apply to the Buffalo Sabres. The overall concept is just out the window with them, and it hurts. I feel so bad for Josh Norris.

Like, you guys know, he's a former teammate of mine. Like, I remember playing with him when he was a 20-year-old rookie. And, you know, some 20-year-olds step in a pro hockey, and you can tell there's still kids. Like, he was a kid, but he was really mature. Like, he was a pro. You could tell he got it, you know, like, and so all these. these injuries, like they've, they've been so unfortunate and they've derailed him so much. It's not a matter of, like, the kid, not being a pro or prepared and all that stuff.

He was a pro and he was prepared when he was 20. But I think now, like, okay, Norris is injured. If you were still clinging on to anything in Buffalo, it was, you know, we still have Tage Thompson and Rasmus Dahlene and Owen Power. And like if you were, if you were a realtor and you were writing up the report for the Buffalo Sabres, let's say they were a home for sale, okay? And you were trying to write the report to get people to come and see this house and get the showings and get the sale, you would probably write something along the lines of, you know,

has good bones, just need some cosmetic work, you know, like that's your minor facelift renovation. But what happens if it goes really south this year? and guys like Thompson and Dahlene, they say, I've had enough of this. Where's your bones now? Now you're entering like, take it down to the studs. And I mean,

you would think that it's been down to the studs already at this point and you're on your way up. But this can't be the highest you go. It's good bones that are built on cursed ground. Like, that's what it is. Like you can say like, okay, like this, there's plenty of you can, work with here, but also there's something about the overall site where you're like,

oh, this is, it's downwind from a power plant and, and, and, and whatever else. And no palm trees. No, no palm trees. No, no palm trees. Legally, we have to say that in the listing. There are, we have to inform you. There's no palm trees nearby. But it's, it's a house, it's a house built near a mine subsidence in honor of Terry, in honor of

Mr. fracking himself. And he might, he might dig another mine if, uh, any day, No, he's going to do that. Well, put it this way. You can't even say, like, you know, some, some houses in, like, a gentrified area will say, like, really up and coming. You can't even say that it's up and coming, man. Like, you're trying to hang on. You're trying to hang on to your star guys because that's the hope that you have that they can turn this thing around.

Now, let's all kind of preface this whole thing by saying it's early. But, like Sean said, it's not just three games. It's 14 years plus three games. So for the Sabres, it's a little later than the other teams that might be struggling. And they've got the senators up tonight at home, which is interesting for a couple of reasons. First of all, it kicks off a stretch, I think for the next five or six games. They are basically playing Ottawa, Detroit, Montreal, Toronto. all the teams that in theory would be in the mix, if Buffalo was going to make a playoff push in the Atlantic, those are the teams that you think at least a couple of those you're going to have to pass.

So this is a real test. Ottawa comes in. They're missing their best player. They're star forward. So, you know, and Josh Norris obviously came over from Ottawa. So you've got the Dylan Cousins factor. God, if he lights them up tonight, that's... Not to interrupt.

Can we just bet on a Dylan Cousins like multi-goal night? Like, is the Dylan, the Dylan Cousins hatchet, the Dylan Cousin Hattrick in front of fans in Buffalo? That's, that's going to happen. Well, it's going to happen, and it's also going to happen because of no Brady. Like, they need guys to step up and score. Last year, the Sends where they left a little more to be desired is their inability to score at five-on-five. like they're a bottom five team scoring five on five last year, which is obviously not great for your playoff chances this year.

Like if you can't find more. And what did you know it? They're, you know, it's early, but they're 27th in the NHL at five on five goals already. So, you know, there's a lot of time for sure for them to figure this out. But no, Brady doesn't help. You know, you need more from Timmy Stutzla, but he can't be a hero. Like he can't throw on the cape and say, I'm going to do it all. You know, you need this Fabian Zetterland.

to start producing. You know, Shane Pinto has been lights out. But I think the thing with Ottawa is that they really, they got to a place of stability last year. Like defensively, they established what their team identity is and they had some success. And now going into this year, yes, there's higher expectations, but which, you know, for sure means more pressure.

But there's also an element of like, no one's going to hand it to you just, because you had a good year last year. Like, you're going to have to do it all over again, and they've stumbled out of the gate. Like, their penalty kill was porous to start. All of a sudden, now it's kind of turned around a little bit. Linus Allmark hasn't looked like Vesna Allmark to start the year.

So, like, Ottawa's got some work to do, but we know that they can do it based on last year. Just no one's going to hand it to them right away. I love early games like this, because there is going to be panic and miserable. in either Ottawa or Buffalo based on the result tonight. Because Ottawa's one and two needed a comeback in game one to keep them from being 0 and 3. Obviously, missing Brady hurts.

And again, to bring it back to the Sabres, a couple years ago, they were sitting right there with the senators and the habs. And we've seen those teams kind of blow by them. If Ottawa comes into your building without their best player and beats you, I see this being a situation where I think we're going to start seeing some very ugly reactions from Buffalo fans during the games. You know, we've already seen, I think we already saw Jersey on the ice, you know, whether it's chanting for people to be fired, whether it's this or that. And rightly so, I think. You know, it's hard to, it's hard to find a fan base. It's been more patient than this one.

So it could be a rough week in Buffalo. The bill's lost. The fans are already cranky. Let's see where it goes tonight because maybe not. Maybe they turn it around. They get a nice win and we all go, okay, back on track. But it feels like we're right on the precipice of some bad things. They could.

They could beat the senators and everyone says, okay, we're back on track. But we know this about Sabres fans. we know this about Buffalo sports fans in general. The fatalism is just around the corner, right? It's not going to take much to throw them back into, you know, actually we're doomed mode. And I, you know, if they win the night, it would be a respite. But I don't, I don't think a permanent one. Well, and the thing, you know, if they are on Tankathon, like if the fan base is firing up that website a ton,

you know, Gavin McKenna is a supremely talented player, no doubt about. it, but so was Rasmus Dalene. So was Owen Power. So is Tage Thompson. Like all these guys, like they've drafted supremely talented talented players. It's not like one guy is coming to save this thing. This is beyond, like if this truly does continue to go south,

which it doesn't look good early on, scored two goals so far this season, given up 10. Like, if this truly does continue to go south, there's not a McJesus, you know, like Gavin McKenna coming to save this thing. This is more than just one player. This is top down.

This is holistic, which is concerning, because that means there's a lot of work to do. Bring in talented players, but also make sure that the talent develops and the talent plays properly and it's well insulated. It's, you know, that's just,

that hasn't really been the reality for Sabres the team and their fans. Across the state, we have another team that's already feeling the heat. New York Rangers, they've lost two straight. Three games at home, zero goals there.

The two teams they've beaten up in Buffalo and Pittsburgh. So do those even, do those really count? Are those real wins at all? Yes. Yes, they are real wins because they lost to Pittsburgh too in a game where they hardly showed up.

So you could see what happens when you know show it against the pens. Yeah. The opener against Pittsburgh, they're getting, they're getting booed, but off the ice, which was wild to see it. So yeah,

we're seeing, we're seeing some early strange returns in New York. What have we seen from them so far? Not a lot of goals, like we said, they've been shut out three times at home. J.T. Miller scored once. The big boys aren't producing all that much. Is it time to panic for the Rangers?

It was, it was better for the Rangers last night. Like, they, they truly got goalied. And who was the goalie? Stuart Skinner. Like, he was almost a plus four goals saved above expected last night.

Um, so he was great. Like, and I think J.T. Miller after the game kind of said, you know, we didn't score, but kind of like,

I'm, I'm paraphrasing, but liked a lot of the stuff that they did. And honestly, if, if you watch, like, if you watch what happened last night,

he's not wrong. Um, you know, and, and it's different. than much different than the savers because they've been bad for so long. But the Rangers were a poor team last year in a lot of different regards. And I think this year, you want to see the Rangers show the spark in the urgency that they

didn't have last year for the most part. And I think that's where, you know, it's not that you're panicking, but you want to see that like just a little bit of, we're so aware of what happened last year. we're going to go above and beyond. Like, we're just, it's going to be over-exaggerated because we were so unhappy with how things went last year and it's a new coach. And so, listen, last night, they, they would win that game if that game gets played again, but they got goalied.

Crazy, though, like absolutely crazy that they don't have a goal on home ice, you know, and a shame for the fans because that's one of the best goal songs in the NHL. Don't you want to sing along and chant to that song and fist point? home. What they should do with this office, they should be calling the teams that are rebuilding. Like, they should call, Anaheim's got this kid, this Kreider kid, who's scoring a ton of goals. See if he's available. He'd probably be a great fit in New York. You know, maybe that could work. There's another defenseman they could probably get thrown in just to bring back to that.

Some leadership, some physical. Yeah, like, I mean, you know, that could be. You get guys like that. This could be a president's trophy winning team. I think I really do think with the Rangers like it's a little bit of an overreact. We talked about this earlier. It's a little bit of an overreaction to game one because it's it's home ice. It's new coach. It's hopefully new vibes. And it was it was a dud, right?

That that extra little juice that, you know, you'd like to see from them was certainly absent in that first game against Pittsburgh. And I think I think the fan base, you know, was reacting to that. But man, if you look under the hood, if, you. we mentioned them getting goalied last night. You know, the process at five on five is good. Their expected goals are solid. They're five on five numbers overall are solid. I think for them, it's a rough showing at the start of the schedule so you can check that box.

And then it's just weird sequencing from from there on out. You know, they get goalied. It's small sample size theater in this point. It's a weird, it's a weird stat to be able to say three games at home and they haven't scored. but that's really all it is at this point. Like I still do have some degree, a pretty serious degree of faith in them to bounce back and be the team.

We kind of believe them to be. Listen, I think there's a couple things. There's a solid coach. There's a goaltender who's playing lights out. Like, Schisturkin has been excellent. Like, if you picked him as your candidate to have a big bounce back year, you're probably feeling pretty good about that pick. And why wouldn't?

Like, he's just, he's so talented. And, you know, I think, I think with the Rangers, like, we'll see as time goes on, that talent, you know, a little bit of that urgency that I talked about, that will all come to the forefront. They're, they're in a position where if they play the way that they're playing outside of night one, which clearly was not a good night for them, they'll be fine. Like, there's, there's no reason to panic for the Rangers. It's just, you know, at this point in the year, a few games in. You see that you haven't scored on home ice yet. Like that, that's a concerning stat. But like Gentile, you're right.

Like their, their process would lead you to believe that things will be, things will be just fine for the Rangers. Like, but what is just fine? Like that it's not, it might not be first in the Metro. Could be a wild card spot. Like, I think that's where the conversation goes with the Rangers. Like how, how high can they possibly go? And is that, is that a wild card spot?

wild card team when it's all set and done. And you talk about good news, bad news. You know, we keep talking about them not scoring on home ice. They've won the two games on the road. They get to go back on the road now, which in theory is great, right? You don't have to hear about these home ice struggles for a little while. Go on the road, a couple of games, get your feet under you. Great.

So where are they going? Oh, right. Toronto and Montreal. Those are two markets that'll be very chilly. You won't have to answer the same questions. 800 times if you're the New York Rangers. Maybe not the, this would be a great time for the West Coast trip. I was just about to say, like, do we get the West Coast questions for J.T. Miller during

the Montreal Toronto trip? How many questions is he answering about Elias Pedersen? It's going to be more than, it's going to be more than zero. I have a couple, more than he wants to. More than he wants to. He'll get a little squirrely dealing with that stuff. you know, just quickly, while we're in New York State, and we're talking about Shisterkin playing so well,

I wonder how much Elias Sorokin for the islanders. I hope it's a lot. He's my, he's my fantasy goalie. I just, I wonder, I wonder how much Sorokin's going to be able to take. Like, it, it's, it feels like he's getting peppered. He's, he's, he's been peppered for a long time. Like, it just, that's been the reality of, of the islanders, the last few, seasons, but at some point, like, is it too much? Does the damn just break? Because, because I feel like

it's flown under the radar just how much they've relied on him. And maybe, maybe it hasn't. Like, if you watch the Islanders, you're probably pretty aware of how much they've relied on their goaltending over the past few seasons. But, like, they're 0 and 3. And they've given up a lot. And Sorokin usually is the guy that gives them a chance to win games. And if, and if it's caught up to him, well, then they're in some trouble as well. And it's going to be hard for them to kind of make a push up the standings, which is not that much different than any team that would have a, you know, a goalie who's been overworked over time. What I find fascinating with the Islanders is they've got the new GM who comes in. They have the first overall pick. A lot of times in

that situation, that's when you do the rebuild, right? That's when you say, okay, we're going to strip it down. Matthew Darsh didn't really do that. He didn't, he didn't make that commitment. But if it goes south early this season, is this a situation where you say, okay, you know what? I came in as the new guy. I gave it a shot. I wanted to see with my own eyes what we had. Clearly, it's not working. So now I'm going to start moving some guys on. And this isn't, this isn't, necessarily the best day to say it given what we saw last night, but I'm just going to say it again, just so that people will say they heard it here first. Oh, no.

Ilya Sorokin, the game one starter for the Edmonton Oilers in the... No! This year. Oh, that'd be great. Figure it out, guys. That would be great for the Oilers. Sorokin, Sorokin's an unbelievable goaltender, but it just, you don't get to see it because of the team he's played on the last few years. I just, and and to your point, Sean, if he were to go to a team like the Oilers, and I think I said this about John Gibson last year, where you've played on a team that struggled, all of a sudden you move on to a team that has like Stanley Cup expectations and you're, like, you can get reinvigorated by something like that.

Like that would be a breath of fresh air for him to to play on a team that dominates puck possession, I think, but yeah. I was amazed over the summer at how many people I talked to when we were doing the player tiers. thing. How many people I talked to were like, we started out with stroke and too low. I think we docked him, you know, for last season, probably a little bit, a little bit too heavily. And there were a lot of people across the spectrum with teams and not who are just like, nope, you guys, like, you, you, you, you, you are not giving this dude credit for the amount of, of, of crap he has to deal with on a nightly basis. So it'll be interesting to see if that changes. I'm just saying if, if, and you know, Stuart Skinner was great last night.

If we get a month in and Edmonton feels like they need goaltending, in a league where nobody trades goalies, if you're Matthew Darts, you're going to be able to turn that organization upside down, shake it. Shake. Shake for change. Whatever you want. And it's, it's, it's, you will, you want to talk about a rebuild. That's, uh, that would not be able to.

bad way to kick it off. Just real quick before we move on, we've somehow talked about the Islanders at length here without bringing up Matthew Schaefer and he's playing almost 24 minutes a night. He's sweating himself very well. Yeah, what are our first, aside from the fact that he's fun, what's our first, our first thoughts of him? Frankie, we can start with you. You were a, you're a, defenseman of some note. He looks so comfortable. He hasn't looked out of place, but the fact that he's, he's really willing to assert himself into the play as much as possible. Like he's not, I find with Schaefer, the feet really mesmerize you when you watch him play.

You're like, they never stop moving. He'll, you know, he has like the ability to kind of cut back on you pretty quickly. He's pretty evasive that way. The straight line speed is really solid. But if you've watched him in any of his interviews, he's comfortable on the microphone. And I think his personality, yeah, like his personality kind of shows you that like he is, he's enjoying himself. He's not taking it too seriously. He's not worrying about like what's the consequence if this doesn't go well or if I don't get back on in this situation.

He's playing instinctual hockey, which I think is is so important and healthy for a young player like that to just say, go play. We'll tinker with things as as time goes on. but there's that's not that's not a work in progress Matthew Schaefer that's that's a hell of a player right out of the gate and and his feet are they're already in a category in the NHL where there's there's not a ton of guys that that enter that category just the mere fact that he's playing as an 18 year old is impressive like like the the list of 18 year old you know top five pick defensemen who've come in and made it made an immediate impact like that are short. Like it bodes really, really well for him and for the future.

And he's doing all this and getting all this ice time for Patrick Waugh, who's not a coach that you look at and go, well, this is a guy who's really thinking long term and looking to develop. Like this is an impatient guy who wants to win. And he's looking at what he's got on that team and going, say, 18 year old is is the guy. Let's throw him over the boards and see what he can do. And so far, it's been real good. DGB, you know why?

Because the 18 year old, that's who he's got. Yeah. Who's, who if he's, if he's being honest with himself and he's looking down the bench, he's like, um, okay, give me the 18 year old. Because the guy flies around the ice. He can make a play. Now, where it'll be interesting with Schaefer is the conversation around world juniors. Like eventually do they.

do they decide they want to let him go? Like if he's playing this much, I have a hard time believing they're going to let him go play that. But if the team is really bad, maybe they want him to go, you know, try and win a gold medal. And, you know, their top four is in the NHL right now, essentially. Schaefer, Brunick, Perrek, and Dickinson, they're going to have to start making contingency plans for what if all those guys

are sticking around the NHL this season. I mean, Matthew Schaefer's, he's pretty important to the Islanders already. I think it's just going to depend on are they losing a lot? And should he go try and pursue a gold medal and experience some winning? And if they're the ones hitting Tankathon, what better way than to send your best defensemen away for a few weeks? Oh, man, a hundred. A little field trip. You took the words out of my mouth.

That helps the tankathon efforts. and it's also just a nice little mid-season reset for a kid who by that point, maybe he's going to need it. If he's going to keep playing 24 minutes a night for a team that loses more games than it wins, go take a little break, do some metal chasing, and play with your friends for a little bit. There's something to be said for that. All right.

Next up, we're going to go west. We're going to talk about a team that Frankie got an up-close look at this weekend, the Seattle Crack. All right, we're back. We wanted to hit on, this is where in the world is Frankie Corrado. It's a, it's a beneficial day for us because he saw, Frankie, you saw Cracken Canadians last night. In Seattle got Lane Hudson at the end of that game. They lose five, four in overtime.

Things happen. What are you going to do? But I know you wanted to hit on the Cracken specifically because they're, you know, Two in one coming out the gates, they beat Vegas. You know, competitive loss against a pretty good team in Montreal that you saw up close last night. Okay. Let me ask you guys something. You know, if we were talking about the Pacific Division, we could all pretty much agree that, you know, Vegas and Edmonton are going to be the two top teams. I think coming into the year, we would have said, well, L.A. is going to be the third best team in that division.

And then it's up for grabs. Is it Vancouver or, you know, does a young up-and-coming team like Anaheim take a big step because they have a lot of talent? And then last night, you know, it's early. Like, we always have to preface it. I'm watching Seattle and I'm like, you know what? They look way better than they did last year. They're sharper defensively. They were pretty organized.

They forced some turnovers at one point in the game. Joey Decord didn't have his best stuff. last night, but he's been, you know, he's been excellent going back to last season and he was lights out throughout the first two games of, of this season. And then I started to think to myself, you know, there's no guarantee that Vancouver is the fourth best team, or there's no guarantee that, that L.A. is, is as good as they were last year. And I'm like, I wonder, I wonder if Seattle can, can make a little bit of a push to get back into the playoffs, because they were, they were leaky last year.

Like Jared McCann wasn't playing right. He only had 22 goals. He had offseason surgery. He looks really good. Maddie Baneers looks more powerful, I would say, than I've seen him. Like Shane Wright continues to get more comfortable. I'm like, I just don't know if like we should be discounting Seattle quite yet when it comes to the Pacific Division.

They look much better than they did last year. Yeah. And I'll admit it. I was writing them off. before the season even started. Yep. You know, you talk about that Pacific. I was with you on Edmonton, Vegas, in some order at the top.

L.A., you know, nobody liked their offseason, but they were a better team than maybe you remember last year. I had Anaheim as my dark horse, and then that's looking okay. I barely even gave Seattle a thought. I really, you know, I just, I looked at that as a bottom five team. Oh, completely. could could still be there absolutely but you never you know when you see coaching changes in the NHL a lot of times the impact is overrated but sometimes it's not you know the frankly what interests me is you know you're you're not out there talking about well you know they want it

more they want this or that like it sounds like it's kind of system stuff yeah it's deliverable and techniques in that which is you know that can the teams will adjust to that, obviously. Maybe, you know, maybe this team is better than we think. Maybe last year's team was worse than they should have been. And there's more room for improvement here. Well, okay, think about it this way as well. They've brought in Mason Marchment.

Mason Marchman a really good player. I think one that slides under the radar is Freddie Gujarro from Minnesota, who's a good depth centerman kind of, you know, heart and soul type of guy, penalty kill. Ryan Lindgren, who has his, like, it's not a perfect defenseman, but he helps solid their blue lines so that you look at it and you say there's, there's six, you know, pretty solid NHL defensemen. There's actually a really good offensive guy in Brandon Montour and Vince Dunn. The reality for Seattle is this. They are not driven by superstar elite talent. They have to do it as a team. And I think when, when you watch Seattle last year, like,

well, there's no chance they're going to be able to do it because they don't have the superstar talent and they're not structured and they're not organized. And you watch them this year and you're like, okay, like I can, I can, I can see how they would turn a corner because they are playing more connected as a group. And I think the other thing that comes to mind is, you know, if you're just kind of arriving to the Joey Decord party, like welcome. Yeah. He's a hell of a goalie. He, it's, you know, he's acts like a third defenseman back there sometimes with how aggressive he is breaking out pucks. Like, he's, he got invited to USA's Olympic camp in the summer.

Like, that's not an accident. Like, clearly he's been identified as, as a really good goalie in the league. If he has, if he has a year where, you know, there's these like years that goalies have where they're in the Vesna talk. Like, if he has one of those, the young guys take another step. They play well as a team. I'm just, I watch it, I'm like, there's just no, there's just, we shouldn't be writing them off just quite yet. Yeah, I mean, if Decord has the season, has a season on par with the one he had previously, and they get growth from, from the Shane Wrights and Maddie Baneers's of the world, they're,

they're a lot more interesting. I'm still just, I, Frank, you mentioned. mentioned the absence of top flight talent there. That's still just, that's still a concern for me. But decord, man, he's 20 goals above expected over 57 games last season. He, that's high-end stuff. And it's really a continuation of what they saw from him down the stretch the season before that, right? So if they have that dude in net in a meaningful way and you do get, you know, that Maddie Baneers that the elevator starts to go back up after kind of a weird season last year. And they just continue to see growth from Shane Wright, who was better last year, I think, than people realize.

You know, they, the, the potential for them to be interesting is probably a little bit more, a little bit more present than I acknowledged at the start of the season because I was in the DGB class, man. I wrote, I wrote them off. I was like, this is not, this is not a serious team. They've overpaid guys like Chandler Stevenson. They've, you know, used up the cap space that we heard so much about, and what do they add to show for it? There's a lack of high-end talent because of where they've drafted. I guess Berkeley Caton is, you know, someone who needs to be accounted for. But, you know, they're interesting in a way that I probably was not willing to allow for, you know, six weeks ago.

Just put it this way. Based on what we've talked about about Seattle, coupled with no guarantee Vancouver finds it this year, No guarantee. LA is as good as they were. I think that's, I think that's what, what you look at and you say, okay, are there two on a downturn and is there one kind of getting on the up and up? And so maybe that helps bridge the gap a little bit for Seattle. A little bit about what they're doing.

Also a little bit, you know, what's happening around them in that division. And the pessimist view was you could look at this and say, what's the absolute ceiling? is first round cannon fodder for the Oilers or the Golden Knights. But first of all, that's still progress. And second of all, if there's any team out there that can say, hey, get us into the playoffs against one of these big-time cup contenders and let's see what we can do. I mean, Seattle did it a few years ago.

So, you know, I think at the very least, having them surprise people like me this year is important because this is a new market. It hasn't been great so far. They had that one little mini playoff run, but beyond that, it's tough. Once the novelty wears off,

it's been tough to find the excitement in the way that this roster has been built. Maybe they're going to find it for us and prove people wrong. And then you do this for a little while longer, and guess what? You get to start being that nobody, believes in us team, that's a pretty powerful thing sometimes in this league. You stay ahead of the

Anaheim Ducks. I think that's, I think that's clutch for them or the key for them. That's the team, you know, in that division, you know, we mentioned the Kings and we mentioned the Canucks. They need to stay ahead of the Ducks because that's, it felt like an either or kind of choice between Seattle and Anaheim to some extent this past year. Like, who do you think is capable of of getting meaningfully better out of the teams that were at the bottom. And I think most of us, certainly, certainly me and DGB included, like, we picked, we picked the ducks. Based on what? Like, I, we like Leo Carlson.

Joel Quinville's a good hockey coach, blah, blah, blah, blah. But there's still so much projection that's being done there. And we've seen it already that, you know, Seattle, you know, on a given night, they can at least hang with them. And that's going to be important, you know, moving forward whenever we see how this division shakes out. Healthy Jared McKin, healthy Vince Dunn, healthy Jordan Eberley. All that stuff makes a difference. And I know you guys are on the Ducks bandwagon because you believe in the up-and-coming talents of Chris Kreider and said, and Jacob Truba, a couple guys that the Rangers ought to look into. Pick up the phone, Chris Jerry. Who says no? All right, Frankie, thank you, brother. Where are you

this week. Yeah. Still in Montreal. We got the Preds here in town tomorrow night. And should be a good one. Montreal was buzzing with the... Should it be a good one? I don't know.

Any game when you're in the building? Here you go. Should be a good one. Montreal's fun. Montreal's fun right now. There's a good buzz around the city. They did a home opener last night. They knocked that stuff out of the park.

The tribute to Ken Dryden was awesome. So it's a good energy in this city. Follow it up with... the electric Nashville Predators. Enjoy it, brother. Talk to you soon. See you, boys. All right, there goes Frankie Corrado.

Sean McEndo, we're back in my man. I would like to tell you something I learned last week. What have we learned, Sean? Gavin McKenna's pretty good. Hmm. Okay, interesting. I made the long haul from Pittsburgh to State College for his home opener against Clarkson last Thursday.

Pretty sweet environment. in the building. That's about what I was expecting. The fans in state college have taken, have taken quite kindly to our guy number 72. It's also kind of an interesting time for Penn State hockey since the football team is a smoking crater at this point. This is before they lost a Northwestern at home. This is before they fired James Franklin. And there was already a vibe there where people are like, okay, we're going to try to disconnect from this particular football season. Like, let's see what this kid's about. Did they lose to Clarkson?

Yes, they did. But, man, the kid is electric. He's pretty big, too. He's taller than I thought he would be. He looks tall out on the ice. And you see him, he's just one of those guys, man. And he's playing wing for them. He's just a magnet for the puck.

and he slows guys down. You know, he looks like he's moving. He looks like he's moving at full speed and everyone else is moving in slow motion around him. It was really impressive. He didn't score in the game I saw. He had two really slick powerplay setups where he got guys open and completely free.

But, man, he looks like the real deal. And we're talking about Tankathon. We're talking about the savers and the Rangers and the New York teams. I was good to say, I love that this guy's the presumptive first overall pick, and when the athletic brain trust was like, who should we send down to start making this relationship?

It's me. Let's send the Pittsburgh guy. Just say it. No spoilers. No spoilers. Let's send the Pittsburgh guy. I think there's spoilers. I think the Pittsburgh Penguins are going to finish sixth from the bottom in the standings

and somehow magically win the first overall pick. Right. when the envelope with literal frost hanging off of it gets pulled by Gary Bedman. Do you want to hear the completely embarrassing, way too early, overreactive player comp I had for, I had for McKenna or not a compe? Of course. Absolutely. Nikita Kutrov. Not bad.

Multi-time Art Ross winner. All right. Yeah. Yeah, MVP. Congratulations. This is what I'm saying. Congratulations on your incoming 130-point season, Gavin McKenna. It's going to happen. Done deal. It's good, man. We're number 72 for the Pittsburgh Penguins. Now to Penn State University, Gavin McKenna. Did you, like, what did you do to get into the scouting mindset? Like, did you, like, did you wear, like, the old, old-fashioned hat and everything, sit there with your specs on? Did you chain smoke while you were taking notes on this guy and writing Nikita Kuturov with a big heart around it? That was it.

It was just me doodling Gavin. Gavin equals Nikita. I had a whole set of markers. I had read in pink markers out. Wow. He's a blast. And if anything else, that's going to be a fun experience, I think, for people who go to those games, for people who love college hockey. you know, it's going to be a little bit of a road show.

We obviously saw it at Arizona State, but man, Penn State versus Michigan, Penn State, Michigan State, all those games are going to be fun. And he seems like he's going to be a very, very relevant part of them. Enjoy it now, Gavin, before the Buffalo Sabres. Future Buffalo Sabres. Ruin your entire life. He's going to get traded for, yeah, for also an inferior player and a seventh offenseman that they don't resign also six or six or.

from now. He's going to join the Dylan Cousins Club. That sounds about right. Here's what I learned this week is actually a lot of stuff because I got to do something that I really enjoy doing. I run a contest for the readers and listeners that hopefully everyone got in on before the season. And it's just a bunch of simple questions and you submit your answers. And the fun part for me is twofold. One, it's at the end of the year where I get to see how wrong everyone was and I get to laugh at you. After a full season of you laughing at me for all of my bad predictions, we get to turn the tables a little bit. But the other thing I really like doing is just digging into the information and seeing when you've got over a thousand fans making, in theory, their best calls, who do they like?

Who do they not like? Who do they not mention? Who doesn't come up and all of this stuff? And some of it ends up being obvious. Like, you know, I'll break some news here. Connor McDavid, probably pretty good player. It seems to be a lot of people like it. A lot of people like this Demadov kid for the Calder.

But then you look at, you know, who doesn't get mentioned and who maybe isn't in there. And I'll tell you the one that I found maybe the most interesting of all is the first three questions of the contest. I say, give me five teams that are going to make the playoffs, give me five that are going to miss, give me five that are going to be in the middle of the pack. And I like to look at that and say, out of all 32 teams in the league, which team gets mentioned the least? Which is to say which team has the fewest fans out there willing to say, I think I know where they're going to wind up? And I was really interested in this year's answer because the least mentioned team was the Winnipeg Jets. last year's President's trophy winners, you would think that when you finish first overall in a league where half the league makes the playoffs,

that you would have some people willing to put their hands up and saying, this is a playoff team at the very least. But not so much with the Jets. And, you know, we've seen President's Trophy team winners miss the playoffs, saw it with the Rangers just last year. But that did surprise me a bit. And I think it makes sense because I think most people look at that Jets team and say they're very good, but they were carried by phenomenal goaltending.

Goaltending is inconsistent in this league. Even Connor Halebuck, you can't count on year to year. Also, they play in the toughest division with Colorado and Dallas, who both look fantastic. You know, it wouldn't take that much of a step back. So the Jets were the least mentioned team. Very few teams pick, very few entrants picking them to make the playoffs. Even fewer picking them for the middle.

Nobody picking them for the bottom, obviously. But I find that interesting. And if you're a Jets fan, there's a little bit of that, you know, it's not so much nobody believes in us. Nobody's talking about us. Nobody has that confidence to say that we're going to be as good as we hit, even though we finished first overall last year.

I find that interesting. they're easy to talk yourself out of, I think, to some extent, the Jets are. Because you said it, like, I lost Nick Eilers, you know. No Nick Eilers. Like the power play last year was a sneaky big part of why they were so good. So, you know, it's easy to say. Maybe the goaltending's a little bit worse.

Maybe the power play is a little bit worse. They lose, you know, one of their two or three most talented players up front. I can see it. I was, I, I, I, I, I, I wouldn't guess that that was at the top of the list there. That's the main. The interesting thing is it was, it's the second time in three years that the president's trophy winner has been that team. Because two years ago, it was Boston.

Remember when Boston won the president's trophy? Then they had the disastrous first round exit against the Panthers. And then they lost Patrice Bergeron and David Creachie. And a lot of people were saying, wait a second, is this going to be the big step back? That Bruins team, by the way, it turned out absolutely fine. They had 109 points. They made the playoffs. It was all good.

Don't ask what happened the year after that. It was time release. We were one season too early on predicting the demise of the Boston Bruins. That's right. By the way, do you want to take a guess at the next two teams right behind Winnipeg for the fewest dimensions, which is to say that the teams that people felt the least confident in talking about? And I'll give you a hint. They're both in the same division.

Calgary? Not Calgary. Calgary was a good one, but a lot of people are picking Calgary for the middle. They figured like, yeah, playoffs are not. They're like, okay, that. Columbus. Not Columbus, but you got the right division. Caps and Rangers.

The Caps and the Devils, the two teams. And again, Capitals very, so this is the other number one seed, but a lot of people expect them to take a step back. were expecting the Rangers to come up. And the devils are the ones I found interesting because that's a team that a lot of us for years have been saying, they're right there. If they could just be healthy,

if they could get the goaltending fixed, which they did. But they were a 91 point team last year. Did make the playoffs, but now 91 points. So, yeah, I guess a team that you're, you don't want to say they're going to be in the middle because if everything clicks,

they're going to be real good. But apparently not even willing to, say they're going to make the playoffs, which, hey, they were a couple points for missing last year. I kind of get it. Assuming health for the New Jersey Devils, and that's just a tough thing to do right now. Like if Jack Hughes is healthy for a full season and Dougie Hamilton's healthy for a full season, they get a lot more interesting really, really quickly. But, you know, those guys are.

If we're sitting at the end of the year and they're the first place team in that division, I don't think anyone's shocked. Nope, not at all. And if they're the fourth place team in that division, I don't think anyone's shocked. Interesting. And that's drop and win today? That's up this morning, yeah. It's right there now.

Check it out. Check out. Check out the little known writing of a fellow by the name of Sean McAdoo. Yeah. When I'm not doing podcasting and YouTube videos and newsletters, occasionally. The writing is a, the posts or a side hustle. Yeah, it's a little thing I do on the side. It's fun.

We're going to see if we can go anywhere with it. Yeah. Try to carve out some time today to... You should give it a try when you're not scouting. Just super scout. I'm going to start wearing cheater sunglasses or like cheater glasses on like a beaded chain. Yep. Absolutely.

Pick smoking back up. It would be great. Everybody will be really happy with me for that one. Thank you, buddy. And thank you, Frankie Carado, wherever you are. And thank you fine folks for listening to the athletic hockey show. The three of us are back next Wednesday. Haley and I have the next show.

That is tomorrow morning. Check us out on the feeds. Check us out on YouTube. We appreciate it as always, and we'll see you again real soon.