The Athletic Hockey Show - Is clearing Mike Babcock a bad look for the NHL?

Episode Date: June 18, 2026

Mike Babcock has been cleared by the NHL after the league investigated his conduct during his tenure with the Columbus Blue Jackets, paving the way for the Edmonton Oilers to hire Babcock as their next head coach. Sean, Frank and Sean present their opinions on Babcock, the Maple Leafs hiring Jim Hiller, and Kelly McCrimmon's end of season comments on the Golden Knights being the most hated team in the NHL and the possibility of Rod Brind'Amour being one of Hockey's Hall of Fame inductees next week.Host: Sean Gentille and Sean McIndoeWith: Frank CorradoExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Jeff DometWe are happy to announce the upcoming release of The Hockey 100, the definitive ranking of the greatest players of the beautiful game. This is set to release ahead of the 2026-27 NHL season in October and you can pre-order today here: http://hc.com/9780063329195Watch full episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowJoin our Discord Server: https://discord.gg/VTm9VjkFSubscribe to The Athletic: https://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. What up, what up? It's the athletic hockey show. It is June the 18th, 2026. I am Sean Gentile. I am joined by Frankie Kriado and Sean McIndoo. Boys, how happy are you guys to see me sitting in my home and not in a B-list Marriott property somewhere in the United States?

Good-looking hotel you got there. What's a nice crisp Wi-Fi? What's happening? I'm just glad nobody was a lot of it. sleep in my bed whenever I whenever I got home for this one. We don't need to go into that story. That was that one's...

I hope you made yourself a breakfast with like real eggs. You deserve that at this point. No, bud. I mass ordered the powdered eggs that I've eaten in Fairfield Inns across the United States over the last two months. It's a Stockholm syndrome situation. Fellas, we're recording a little late today. and it was beneficial for us.

It is Mike Babcock Day. Congratulations, everybody. The League has completed its review of the Babcock situation. It's been completed. I'm going to read this word for word. The League has completed its review of Mike Babcock's tenure in Columbus

and of certain alleged conduct associated therewith. Our investigation has concluded that even in a light least favorable to Mr. Babcock, there is no current basis to restrict his employment in the league. So everyone get excited. Edmonton, this is your guy. Don't you feel great about it? Right? So good. Right. It's so good. I got two main thoughts on this. First of all, from an analyst point of view, a guy who sits at TSN watching games

doing sports center hits at one in the morning. When the Edmonton Oilers are close to being on my do not watch list because they're playing horrible, I will hold nothing back. I will not feel any ounce of remorse. Neither will any other analyst who has to talk about this team when they inevitably play horribly. So thank you, Mike, for coming back into the mix. You have made my job a lot easier. The second thing. First time, first time for that that's happened. Yeah, the first time he's ever made my life easier, my job easier, literally. The other thing, there's a vibe about the Oilers right now with this whole thing where it just looks like the guy at a bar who looks way too desperate. Like he's throwing stuff out there like, hey, you come here often? Like he's just

and that's what the Oilers, that's that's kind of how they look and operate with this entire thing. I get it and I've said it on the pod, right? Like brilliant X's and O's guy understands the game better than everybody. But there's more to hockey and coaching than that. You know, you guys like would be familiar with this, but if you've ever had any kind of interaction with someone who's a life coach or a broadcast coach or a business coach, it's a little bit about the protocol. It's more about how they communicate with you, like how the messaging gets across. And that is where he is the most deficient. So I think it's going to be fascinating to see how the dynamic is with him and McDavid and

Dreisdell and Evan Bouchard of all people is going to be amazing. I can't wait. It's pure cinema. If anything else, this year will be pure cinema from the Edmonton Oilers. And here's the thing. Like all great cinema, if you're going to serve up a sequel, you've got to have a little bit of a twist on it. And the twist now is we've all been doing the same narrative for the last few years in Edmonton, which is for Connor McDavid, poor Leon D'Isidal.

Oh, yes. These superstars surrounded by. this incompetent organization that can't build around them. And now, this time, there might be some incompetence here, but Connor McDavid doesn't get to be the victim here. Connor McDavid was part of this decision. Presumably, he and Drysidl said, that's our guy. We want that guy.

Certainly, if either one of them had said, no, thank you, this doesn't even get off the ground. They pick their guy. So now if it goes bad, the way a lot of us think it's going to go bad, this is no longer the poor Connor show. It's now, all right, the best player in the world got to pick his own coach. Is it going to work or not? This is the call is coming from inside the house to take it back to like the movie twist analogy. I, Sean, like you kind of, you said it. right like i'm still i'm still seeing the sentiment express from people whether it's on twitter whatever else like how could stan beaumann do this to connor mac david it's like folks you were connecting the wrong thoughts here man that this decision is has been made way above

stan boeman's pay grade whether we're talking about connor macdavit or leon dry sidel or darrell kate's or whatever. If you were an Edmonton Oiler fan or a Connor McDavid fan or a Leon Driesidal or a Evan Bouchard fan, you need to recalibrate who you're mad at about this because this doesn't happen if those guys aren't on board. This is not a unilateral Stan Bowman decision. This is not a unilateral Stan Bowman mistake. Like we've seen more than enough of those over the years, but that's on what this is. This is those guys signing off on the coats that they want for what might be the end of the McDavid era. Like that's what this is. And we need to come into the season and come to the situation knowing that that's what this is. This is no longer, you know, poor put upon

Connor McDavid who's done who's done so much for the Edminton Oilers and gets, you know, treated, whatever. This is, that's his reward. No. This is his guy. Like that's, and that's the way we need to call it from here on out, man. This is the last coach, very, very, very potentially, if not probably, that Connor McDavid has in Edmonton. You said something there that right away jumped off the page. Like, could it be the end of the Connor McDavid era? And we've been talking about it for a long time, and he signs the team-friendly deal.

Let me ask you guys this. Is there another organization, and I'm sure there are, but there's another organization that he'd be willing to go to that is going to let him have this much autonomy as a player and interview coaches and have say on personnel decisions. Like, let me paint you a picture. One day Connor McDavid decides to go to Dallas. Let's just pull a team and say Dallas. You think Jim Nill is letting him pick the new head coach?

You think Kelly McCrimmon would let Connor McDavid pick the new head coach? I don't think so. So maybe this mutes the conversation a little bit about McDavid leaving Edmonton because if you get to run the organization, Maybe that's kind of nice. Maybe you don't want to leave. I don't know. Maybe you become accustomed to certain things.

But I don't remember, you guys are maybe a little older than me, DGB. You might know the history on this more. But I don't remember like Crosby, Malkin, Kane, Taves. I don't remember any of these guys picking coaches. I just don't. Well, and what's interesting is I'm sure truly great players, franchise players, do get a say on this stuff. Lemieux did.

You know, Lemieux certainly did. I'm sure Austin Matthews, and we'll get to the Leafs, the Leafs later, but I'm sure Austin Matthews was involved in that decision to an extent. But you don't hear about it

because typically that just involves a team hiring, somebody that you would think they might hire anyways, and not going so off the board. like Edmonton has with this this choice. I mean, I still cannot believe that they're doing this. Even even this far along into the process, I still am stunned that of all the possible places for Mike Babcock to make his comeback,

that it's happening in Edmonton with more pressure than we've ever seen and all of this stuff. And look, I said the word narrative. And that's kind of what it is with McKinton. David's influence here because he's had influence before. You look at that organization, right? It's Chris Knoblock was his junior coach. He's got his, you know, his agent is in the front office and all of this.

But everybody kind of backed off in that. And now I don't think that happens. And look, it could work. This is the NHL. Nobody knows anything about what's going to happen. This could absolutely work. But if it doesn't, it's going to be a very different flavor of finger pointing happening in Edmonton than it has been in the years and years that we've been watching this

drama unfold in the McDavid era. It was set up, it was set up, I think, you know, and we're talking about McDavid's potential exit, you know, a season or two down the road. If they hired a normal coach, if they hired Bruce Cassidy, or if they hired, you know, Jim Hiller, pick a name out of the hat, then if and when that day comes, the narrative surrounding it would have been completely different. It would have been a continuation of like, okay, this guy is given 13 years of his life, taking a team-friendly deal down the stretch, did whatever it took to, you know,

at least give them the best reasonable shot and then moved on. And that's that. That was the way things were tracking until this happened. And now if we're looking a year down the road and they're traded and their whatever, he gets traded with a year left on his deal or whatever ends up happening. the Babcock element completely, completely changes the mix. Because if this blows up and if he leaves in a year, it's not just going to be, you know, the org, you know,

put him in a situation where he had no other choice. It's going to be him being an active participant in greasing the skids, you know, and making the kind of decisions that ultimately, at least as relates to cups, will have turned this, you know, we'll have turned this phase of his career into, into a failure. Like this is, this is fascinating stuff

that's taking place here. There's going to be a point in the season where they're not playing well. And maybe they're not getting saves or maybe the defensemen are up to their old tricks and they're turning over pox and Conner's doing the fly-by stuff

way out the far blue line looking for a puck. Like, it's going to happen. I want to know if Babs has the stones to actually say something about it. And, you know, because I feel like so many times in the past, all those things would get glossed over

because David's the best player in the world and dry sidles right there with him and in the playoffs, these guys are animals and they crush it. They haven't won, but I mean, how could you ask for more from them? You're asking these guys to be superheroes at that point. But they say they want to be pushed. Okay, no problem.

You think Babs is the guy to push you? Let's see if he says it to your face. And let's see if he actually holds you accountable for some of the things that have been going on there for years. Yeah. And other five coaches have had issues with it. Yeah. What's more likely that McDavid does the flyby and gets yelled at it by Babs or McDavid does the flyby and then Babs does some kind of weirdo freakazoid stuff with Josh Samansky or Colton Dock or whatever it is? What's more likely?

He holds McDavid to task or he does or he does his weirdo bully stuff on the fourth liners? I wonder what's more likely to happen. He does weird stuff. So I remember one day was like an optional day. And I was kind of skating and Austin was an 18 year old rookie and he was skating that day. And I was just talking to him. I guess he had just talked to Babs or something. I was like, how was that?

He goes, he told me to stop stick handling. He said I stick handle too much when I skate up the ice. He's telling me to just push the puck forward. And I'm like, I think you're pretty fast when you stick. you're one of the faster. Hey, I've noticed something about you, man. Like, I go, you're, like, when you skate and stick handle at the same time, I think you're fast and I'm on the ice with you.

Like, it's, he got like this little gallop thing going. I wouldn't, I'm not going to tell you what to do, but I wouldn't take that to heart, man. Don't, don't worry. He's like, yeah, it was a weird conversation. But, like, it just, I just want to know, like, if he's going to have that conversation with 97 and just, hey, I think you got to push the puck up more. and stops the candling. I can't wait for that conversation.

Something tells me no. Yeah, I said, whatever. This is on, this is on McDavid's permanent record. Like, whatever happens here. Like, like,

if they, if they win a cup, you give him credit for, for knowing what he needed and what the team needed. And if he doesn't, you know, it's on,

it's on him too. And I, and that's my takeaway today. If you're an oilers fan, you're going, well, wait a second, if this is McDavid's call,

then if it doesn't work, it doesn't, isn't he obligated to stick around? Nope. Maybe. But nope. Like, that's not how it's going to work. How about this?

How about this? If you're really into the details of the game like I am, a little bit of a nerd, the last time Babs coached in the NHL was 2019. There's been a pandemic. There's been major changes in how teams penalty kill, in how teams do certain DZone coverage things. I want to know where Babs is at with his exes and O's and what he's going to do. Because if he's just going to roll out there with the same game plan he had for the

2015-2016-2016 Toronto Maple Leafs, I think it's going to be a little stale and it's going to be outdated and teams would have would have figured that stuff out. So like I'm really curious to see the first kind of run through with the Oilers what what they're throwing out there. Like it may be people listening. It doesn't mean much to them. But like other teams are pre-scouting and it's going to mean a lot to them. What's what's Mike Babcock going to do when they're playing the avalanche in the playoffs? what's he going to do about Kail Makar? Because guess what?

Mike Babcock has never coached in an NHL that has Kail McCar in it. The last time Mike Babcock coached in this league, Elias Pedersen was the rookie of the year. Elias Peders, who feels like he's had eight different careers since then of ups and downs and everything. That's how long ago it was. He was the fresh-faced. He was the alien back then, remember?

And we're all like, wow, what a full. open canvas ahead of this kid. That's just, that's how long ago it was. We were all talking about the Tampa Bay Lightning. Can't win a Stanley Cup. That's how long ago it was. The Florida Panthers, franchise joke, a punchline. That's how long ago this was.

And now he's back. I would assume he's, he's, you know, I don't know, maybe his time behind a Canadian university bench helped him really stay up to date on modern techniques, but a lot changes in seven years. That, that's, we said it last week. Like, putting aside all the nonsense, I still don't understand why you go and get a guy who hasn't been, who hasn't been, who hasn't coached in seven years, whether it was because he retired or he went on vacation or whatever it was.

It's been seven years. Are we sure? This is it. There's, there's an unknown out there. And they haven't won a Stanley Cup. And the unknown at one time was revered as one of, of the best coach in the game because the NHL thought so and hockey Canada thought so. And if they're willing to do everything they possibly can to win a Stanley Cup, beg, borrow,

cheat, steal, you name it, they're going to turn over that stone. And this is what that whole process is. And optically, for them looking outward, this is their way of saying, we are going to be cutthroat and we're going to win a Stanley Cup and we're not going to apologize for it. The same way Kelly McCriman doesn't apologize for being the most hated team and the Florida Panthers don't apologize for playing the way that they play. This is their version of that. Does it work? I doubt it. But they're going to try. And we do have a bit from Ryan Rashog, TSN. Sounds like final details of the contract to be a nailed down. But barring a last

minute rush, I wouldn't expect a press conference in Edmonton until early next week for Babcock. So we got a few days to chew all this over and for people to come the terms that this dude this dude is back in our lives. Okay. Let me ask you something. Let me guys ask you something. If we're at like a hotel convention room and DJ Smith is standing in the middle and Jimmy Hiller's at one side and Babs is at the other side and they both say, come here, DJ,

which way does he go? Run to the one you love most. Okay. That's a classic. That's a classic. throw. We do have an actual coach. What's the word I'm looking for? An actual coach vacancy to be officially filled.

It's your buddy. It's Jimmy Hiller, 41st coach and leaves history. Head coach of the Kings from 23 to 26. Spent a bunch of years as Babcock's assistant. Of course, with awesome Matthews and William Nealander in Toronto. Frankie, you know this guy. Is this going to work? What do you think of the hire?

Okay, let me start by saying, I have a lot of time for Jimmy Hiller. He is a really nice guy. He was a joy to be around. He was one of the few people, the teammates were awesome. But like on the coaching staff, I guess, he was a guy who made conversations a little more enjoyable. So I got a lot of time for his demeanor and everything about him. But he was an assistant coach at the time. And for me, there's a very distinct difference between being an assistant coach

where the bad cop is really, really bad, and you get to be the good cop and being the head guy. He's evil cop, evil cop, good cop? Right, yes. Yeah, it was evil cop. It wasn't even bad cop. It was evil cop, good cop. And Jimmy was really good at that.

You know, it's funny because I never thought he had the persona to be a head coach. I didn't know it was something he ever wanted to pursue. And then sure enough, years later, he's a head coach. And I thought to myself, I go, I did not see that coming. Like, I think head coaching, that whole thing, it doesn't come easy to him. But he was great as an assistant. And I think his relationships are long lasting. I think he's got a lot of good ideas with what he wants to do. He ran our power play in Toronto. He did a good job. I was in some of those meetings.

Those meetings were always articulate and he was well spoken. But like I come back. back to this, just very different between being a head guy and an assistant guy. And like, I got a lot of time for him. I just hope he doesn't have, I hope he doesn't have too much babs in him as a head coach, if you know what I'm saying. Hmm. Interesting. I, I just, real quick, what, what the hell were you doing in a power play meeting? I used to, I'm not, is it, is it, is it like, can anybody go into those things? It's not. So the 2015 2016 season, I actually played some power play, if you can believe it. So I was in the meetings and I was like if someone would get hurt that year, I was in the meetings as well. I wasn't always

on it. And then the next year in 16, 17, I just said I'm going in every meeting because I wasn't playing. That's so great. So I would literally go in every face off meeting, power play meeting, penalty kill meeting. You guys, you guys got food in here? What's up? It's just sitting there with the goalies and they're literally looking at each other. Every possible meeting, the guys got a real good kick out of it. Oh, that's nice. And that's why you're so good at your job these days, brother. You're hanging out in the goalie meetings?

That's a, that's a dude who likes homework. In the goalie meetings. Mack and dude, they interviewed more than 40 or more than 50 guys for this job. I think I saw 55 kick around. We did not hear a word about Jim Hiller until he was hired, basically. We heard Pavelsky, weird Bruce Cassidy. We heard all sorts of interesting, an interesting variety of names

across the coaching spectrum, I would say, but Jim Hiller didn't really pop up until he got hired. What do you think of that? I mean, I was like everyone else, right? And there was not a whisper of this name. And so when I saw this news coming across the feed yesterday, I'll be honest, my very first reaction was

Jim Hitler That's not the LA guy Wasn't there There was a guy in LA With the same sort of name But this must be somebody Is he like a college guy? Is he what?

Nope Same guy And I mean I guess Look Clearly the Leafs are trying To keep things close to the best They succeeded in this case

With this hire at least Not with all the names I honestly wonder, like, how many of those names that leaked out, like, was that disqualifying? Like, if your name got out, did you, were you off the list all of a sudden? And, you know, maybe that explains why, why this hire ended up. Look, I've, I've, I probably had the same initial reaction that everyone else did, which was, what the heck are they doing? I've read some of the feedback and analysis and, you know, heard from some people who, who seem to know things. and that's that's brought me back off the ledge a bit

but this is a this is a fascinating hire because this is not a guy who nobody was talking about and then they hire him and you go oh wow okay interesting like this was a guy no one was talking about because why would anybody be talking about him he had been he had a couple of years in L.A. It didn't go great. He got fairly or unfairly almost directly blamed

for them losing a playoff series in a way that you almost never see with coaches because of the challenge and everything when they were up to nothing. And now here we are. It's a fascinating hire from a fascinating front office and a very interesting Maple Leafs offseason continues to roll along. And I think at this point, we can just say if you think you've figured out what this front office is going to do and what this organization is going to do, know you have. because they will go in very interesting directions. And look, same thing I said with Babcock. Could it work? Yeah, of course.

Of course it could. In fact, I think it's a lot more likely to work than Babcock is. But, you know, what does it mean for it to work? It's I know everyone's, you know, we've all made the same punchlines, right? A guy comes over from L.A., a team that loses in the first round every single year. and he's the guy that the Maple Leafs bring in. Talk about organizational fit. Maybe that's the key thing they're looking for.

I'm surprised. I'm not overly impressed, but I'll be patient. I'll give it a chance. Let's see how it goes. Let's see how it goes when they start playing because this team had zero defensive structure last year with a head coach who was supposed to imply that. And they did a horrible job of it from top to bottom.

So if they can still score the way they did this year, I know they had a lot of puck luck. If you can believe that, a team that had a lot of puck luck is going to pick first overall, but it's true, then maybe it won't look so bad. But I hope this is not what Vancouver's version of trying to keep Quinn Hughes was by hiring Adam Foote. And I think it's not like on the surface you could make that argument that like, hey, they just want to bring someone who the guys liked and keep it comfortable and familiar. But like Jim Hiller has been an assistant coach for a long time.

like associate coach has been a head coach now for a decent amount of time. So I don't see it as the same thing. And, you know, people are allowed to learn as time goes on. Like maybe he doesn't make the same mistakes that he made when he was with L.A. Who knows? But, you know, to DGB's point, the difference between it working in Edmonton and Toronto is for it to work in Edmonton, they have to win a Stanley Cup, no less. In Toronto, I don't even think we really know what that.

is yet. Is it make the playoffs? Is it sniff around the playoffs? Is it win a round? Like for the longest time it was they have to win rounds. Yeah. What are they what are they trying to accomplish here? Yeah. If if you want a guy to get you to the first round and you know, instill some like because those Kings teams were good defensively. Like they were they were they were of they coached teams that played effective defensive hockey. The numbers were very good in his time in L.A. But they were also very good before. Correct. That's that's that's kind of what I was that's what I was getting at. Like, I don't know how much, you know, it's, it's not like he came in and fixed a mess in L.A., which is what he's going to be asked to do here in Toronto.

Yeah, he had, he already had Andre Copatzar and Phil Donno and a pretty decent group of, uh, of, of, of defensemen to work with there too. So I don't know that that's necessarily the, uh, the talent base he's, he's working with now either. Okay. Um, we're going to hit a break. When we come back, we're going to talk about Kelly McCriman's, uh, latest round of everybody's jealous of us comments in Vegas. We're going to do a nice little wrap up on the Carolina Cup. That's after the break. And before we hit the break, this is me and McIndoo,

we are happy to announce the upcoming release of the Hockey 100. It's the definitive ranking of the greatest players of the good old hockey game. It's set to release ahead of the 26, 27 NHL season, which is in October somehow. And you can pre-order today from the link in our episode description. It features a very well-written introduction by one, Jonathan McIndoo. I know they were trying to get some bigger names to fulfill that part of the obligation. And they landed.

Just everybody, only one guy was dumb enough to answer the phone. I knew. And that intro is on the site today, by the way. It's on the site and it features two nice little darts at me because I knew they were coming. So check that out. Or the book, it's all the profiles that we wrote of the top 100 players a few years ago. They've been updated and edited and putting a nice little book that's going to make sense for a lot of people come Christmas time. So hit the link in the episode description, checked Sean's intro on the site, and enjoy this break.

Let's move right back. All right, we are back. It was Garbage Bag Day for the Vegas Golden Knights over the last couple of days. John Tortorella not coming back, Ryan Craig, entering the discussion. Is there a new head coach? I don't know how much there is to say about that. We, uh,

not a surprise with the Tortorella decision. I think it became, it wasn't my story to report, but I'm also not surprised that this is the way it ended up going down. It seemed like this was in the works for, uh, it, it became clear at some point during the Stanley Cup final that this is the way it was

going to, that this is the way it was going to end. Um, so whatever, torts can go back to ESPN and keep catching those media checks, baby. Just go sit in the bullpen and get ready to start warming up in March. And we hit Enter Sandman and he comes.

Here he comes. This might be a little bit of a niche. This might be like a niche market for torts that he's created for himself where they, he should do like an ESPN infomercial for this. Like, are you unsatisfied with your team's play? Is it getting into late March? Then you need to think about torts. If you fire your coach today.

Give torts. Give torts a try. today Boston Bruins or whatever ends up happening. For one quick payment of $1 million, you can have torts behind your bench for eight games and the playoffs. No commitment. Being super duper normal at all times.

The bigger news coming out of Vegas, though, I think it's Kelly McCrimands. I said this before the break, but his latest round of, you know, talking about how jealous all the other teams are in league of him, said this yesterday. Yesterday, good story by Jesse Granger on the site, kind of exploring the latest round. For me, it's jealousy, Kelly McCriman says. And people are uncomfortable admitting that we've done a hell of a job.

That's what I honestly think. And Jesse mentioned a fan poll that voted Vegas is the league's most hated team. I don't know if that's necessarily. You know, you like to have evidence and you like to have some receipts to poll, but I'm not sure that one was particularly necessary. But McCriman's getting asked the question again. He's given the same answer. that he's given in one way or another over the last bunch of years,

which is everybody's, everybody's a hater and everyone's jealous. And that's why, that's why that's the, that's the cause here. Nothing else, nothing else to be seen. It's just jealousy over one cup in 10 years,

which is the same as, which is the same as the St. Louis Blues, by the way. How, how wrong is he, though, in your heart of, incredibly. Is he really wrong? You don't think teams are jealous of Vegas that they just,

they show up? I think teams are annoyed by Vegas. I think those are different things. Toronto when Vegas just showed up year one and went to the Stanley Cup final, people were jealous. You know, like, they are, I keep hearing this. Okay, I hear it from players that have played there at some point that maybe it didn't go well or just, you know, media types or fans, whatever. At some point, it's going to catch up to them. I think the bigger question is, how has it not caught up to them? Like, how has this, how are they continuing to just kind of pull this off and roll these things over?

Like for every team at some point, there's an expiration date, and they've missed the playoffs once. So what is the expiration date? It's crazy that they're still doing this. And it's self-fulfilling, right? Because they're the number one destination for players, which is fascinating to me, that in a league where you have all these teams that bend over backwards to treat players well, you've got Vegas, the most cold-hearted cutthroat team out there, and players are lining up going, I absolutely want to sign for seven years or eight years here in Vegas.

Surely I'll be the exception. I will be treated well the whole time. They won't kick. You know, they won't put a footprint on my back as soon as things go bad. And I mean, look, at bottom line, everything Kelly McCriman said was true about the jealousy. I don't know about players or teams.

Other fan bases? Yes, 100%. A lot of this is jealousy. All you have to do. is listen to all those fans of other teams out there who still to this day are doing the whole, they had everything handed to them at the expansion draft thing. Even though we've seen, as Kelly McCriman pointed out, the Seattle Cracken crash and burn under the same rules, and I'm sure they were thrilled to have a starring role in that Kelly McCriman press conference.

But yes, everything he said is true. also there's a ton of other great reasons to not like this Vegas team to be tired of them to hate them to view them as the villains and you go on down the list the the Bruce Cassidy situation Carter Hart potentially tampering with Mitch Marner being the team that you know it seems to have all of these players handed to them because all these players want to go there and no taxes and all this other stuff the for for certain fans certain types of the whole approach, the Vegas, you know, the pregame shows and all of this, you go on down the line. There's a ton of reasons to not like the Vegas Golden Knights. But is jealousy one of them? Yeah, absolutely. It's one of them.

There's reasons to dislike. This is something people don't, like, you hear from a certain type of person, though, like, that there's got to be something like that at play if you're disliked. And sometimes sometimes, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you're. Sometimes you just don't like people, you know? And sometimes you don't like hockey teams. And you don't necessarily need a reason for it. It doesn't need to be jealousy.

You can just not vibe with the way a person behaves when you run into them on the street. And I think for a lot of people, that's, that is what has taken over for the jealousy. That absolutely was evident in 2017, 2018, up to 2023. That's a long time ago now, man. Like, they've, like, I, super successful. made the playoffs all but one year, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, all true. But they've been part of the mix now enough where there are other reasons to dislike them,

other than just, you know, they did a good job at the expansion draft and, you know, whatever. Pittsburgh had to dump Mark Andre Fleury to sign Jake Gensel. Like, there are reasons beyond that. And I think the fact that we're, that, again, we're rehashing this, and it's in, in McCrimand isn't willing to allow for the podcast. possibility that there's other reasons for this other than just blind jealousy based on the way an expansion draft went nine years ago. I think that's like that's proof of that's proof of concept.

Like sometimes sometimes people are just annoying and sometimes people just get annoyed. And I think that's kind of what we have here in it in one way or another. And some people are jerks and sometimes those people end up running NHL teams and the teams take on the personality of the people running them. And I think that's absolutely part of it too. And I think fans can see that. So, uh, and just embrace like, if this is who you want to be, just like embrace it. Don't, don't, don't. They're not, they're not. They're not, but they're, but they're like, but they're kind, they're kind of mad about it too. Like they're saying, they're saying that every, that everyone hates us and everyone's jealous of us and they act like they're like it's something that's been

unfairly put upon them. Like none of this, none of this, none of this. at this point is is undeserved. So just wear the shoe, man. It fits and it's right in front of you. Don't try to convince people that this is something that you don't deserve. And that's what's aggravating about this. You know what would be stating the obvious. And maybe I'm not.

You tell me. But this whole routine, their whole thing, would not work if their location wasn't Vegas. It works for them because it's Vegas. because it's a highly sought-after destination for players to play, for, I don't know, fans to go watch games. It's just like, I love going to Vegas on the road. When I get to call the game there and I see my schedule in Vegas, I'm so happy.

I overlook everything because I'm just happy to be there, right? Okay. If they were in some cold, small market somewhere, they couldn't act as brazen or as grumpy or as prickly as they do because, well, then who cares? We're not going there. Like, you're way over there. But the fact that they're in Vegas allows them to do what they do,

which also makes it, I'm sure, more infuriating for people because they're playing by essentially a different set of rules than other markets and other teams have to play by. It does. It feels like they're playing the player acquisition game on easy mode. And everyone else's difficulty slider is anywhere from moderate, to next to impossible for some of the smaller market cold weather

high tax teams. But again, that's because partly, largely, because they win. So, I mean, it's, one leads to the other. You know, they win because every star player heads them as their number one destination and ends up there.

And. Sound pretty jealous by you, dude. But you know what? As soon as, as soon as they start losing, which will happen eventually, I keep telling myself, then it all falls apart, right? I mean, it's, it's they, being the jerks works just fine when you're winning. And then as soon as it goes bad for a year or two, look out because then they could be doing everything exactly the same, but suddenly the vibe around everything changes.

and then maybe that's when all the haters get to get to spike the football. But they sure can't do it now because it's working. One more thing other than the winning, you have to keep in mind. Older players have significant others and potentially children. That always plays a big factor for guys, right? Like if they have an opportunity to play somewhere where wife or girlfriend can walk around in shorts and t-shirt and take the kids to the pool and do all these things. Schools are good.

My life is easier now because I'm not worried about my wife's going nuts inside and minus whatever. Do you guys not remember? When they first announced they were going to have an expansion team in Vegas, I remember seeing people go, oh, good luck getting players. You'll get the young guys, but you're not getting any of the married guys because nobody's going to, you know, the families aren't going to let them. People didn't realize how they roll in like Henderson and Summerland. That's what it is.

Exactly. Yeah, no one's, no one's living at the Caesar's penthouse. They're living in the burbs. Right. Yeah, this is not, they're not, this isn't, you know, Rasmus Anderson and his wife living in the Vodara or something. Like, like they have, they're looking at nice places here and out, out in the, out in the burbs. Real, real quick before, before, before, before we let Frankie go here. I thought it was an interesting piece by Myrtle up on the site here where we're kind of revisiting Rod Brindamore's legacy. in his hall candidacy, that's top of mind now. That's coming up in the next week or so. He's gotten, you know, sort of close before. He's certainly come up in the discussion. The crux and Myrtle's piece, and it's something I agree with, is that we need to rethink how we vote on hockey hall eligible individuals.

Like right now, it's like you consider them as a player or you consider them as a builder or, you know, or you consider them as a coach. And that's not, you know, in all of those categories, Brindamore's not a slam dunk, clearly. He hasn't coach long enough, and he's probably on the wrong side of the line when you're talking about his playing career. But when you look at his life in hockey in totality,

I think at this point, it's, I mean, maybe not a slam dunk, but I think it's certainly an easier case to make. So I'm wondering from both you guys, Like if you're on the hall and you're and all of a sudden you're allowed to consider Rod the coach along with Rod the player, does he get your vote? I'm fascinated by this because, you know, I write a ton about the Hall of Fame because I'm a history guy and I, I mean, I love this. I love having the arguments and all of that. And I actually, somebody sent me a link to something I wrote 10 years ago and where I said, hey, How come Rod Brindamore is not, never comes up in the Hall of Fame talk?

And I kind of laid out the case. I said he all had almost 1,200 points. He had two, two Selkys. He won a cup. How come you never hear this guy's name? And, you know, at the time, it was, you know, that was, that was accurate. You almost never heard him, him mentioned. And I actually, at the time, I was writing it in the context of Marion Hosa,

who a lot of people were pointing at and saying, hosts of course going to the Hall of Fame. Slam dunk, not even a question. And I sort of said, okay, well, let's put him next to Rob Brindamore. And here we are 10 years later. And I feel like now there's all these people who say, he's a slam dunk as a player. Of course he has to be in.

And now I'm the guy going, well, hold on, pump the brakes a little bit. And, you know, I've got a piece going out probably tomorrow where I say, all right, if we're going to put Rob Brindamore in as a player, is Ryan O'Reilly next? Ryan O'Reilly's got a selfie. He's got a cup. He's going to finish with similar point totals. Ryan O'Reilly doesn't feel like a Hall of Famer to me,

but, you know, if we're going to go down that road. Rod Rindamore is not a Hall of Famer as a player. Period. You know, I say that as the history guy. I'm not trying to pull rank, but I'm saying, like, and the people out there, certainly the people who say he's a slam dunk as a player, are just wrong, flat out. now his coaching career is not supposed to have anything to do with his player career right like i mean

sean you remember when when eric de hatchick was here and you know former former committee member and we used to do hall of fame stuff and he always nailed that he always would tell us like it is completely separate church and state that is is nailed home to the committee Myrtle's argument is, well, maybe it shouldn't be that way. And maybe we should let some common sense in and not be such a slave to the rulebook that we don't let the fact that this guy is having this incredible second act maybe nudge him over a finish line that he wouldn't otherwise get to as a player. Because like I said, not a Hall of Famer in my mind, certainly not a slam dunk,

but he wouldn't be the worst pick. If they did put him in as a player, like this, there are some legitimately bad picks. I don't think he'd be one of them. So I think it's an interesting argument. And I like the way that Myrtle approached it of saying like, yeah, we all know what the rules are, but do we have the right rules? And if we don't have the right rules change. It's 18 people in a room and they never tell us what they talk about or how the discussion went. So they could just kind of, you know, wink and nudge.

And, you know, yeah, we put Rod in. And, you know, I guess the final argument I would make is it is the Hall of Fulf. fame. It's not the Hall of Excellence or the Hall of Fame. It's the Hall of Fame. And when you have a guy who is, I would argue, the single most important person in the history of one of the 32 NHL markets, yeah, maybe we do find a way to just, you know, just just break this way, sir. Yeah, I know you're, you don't have your ticket stamp quite yet, but just just come on in. I don't, I don't know that anybody would complain too much about that. So maybe it is time to Just don't act like it's obvious slam dunk material.

It's also like when you guys, like if you vote on awards, you look at all these numbers, you look at underlying metrics, you look at all these things, right? And at some point you got to put pen to paper and you got to write numbers down in certain areas. And in your gut, it's got to feel good. And if everyone can sleep at night at the Hall of Fame

saying that Rod Brindamore does not belong in here, then that's fine. They can sleep at night, no problem. problem. But I would look at that and say, guys, what are we doing here? Doesn't feel right. Almost 1,200 points. Rod Brindamore, face of the franchise, who's now won a Stanley Cup as a captain, player, and coach with one organization, and the way he carries himself, the way he conducts his business, talking to people, treating all these things.

Like, tell me, that's a guy that doesn't belong in the hockey hall of fame. Whatever helps you sleep at night. But as far as I'm concerned, and to your point, like, yeah, there's certain criteria, maybe the goalposts need to move a little bit because that's a guy who belongs in the Hockey Hall of Fame. And the last point I'll make on this, because I know a lot of people are looking forward to this Monday is when the committee meets and they make the announcements. And a lot of people are saying, man, this is the time. This is Brindamore's time.

He just won the cup. It's top of mind. And the one thing that gives me some pause there is a guy who I do think should probably be in as a player as a borderline case is Keith Kachuk. And, you know, Keith Kachuk for a few years, yeah, you know, you heard his name. But then when Brady and Matthew kind of emerged as these superstars in the league, that kind of elevated Keith Kachuk. And then, you know, when Matthew was winning cups in Florida, especially the first year and, you know, they'd show Keith in the stands. I really felt like, okay, that's going to put him over the top.

And it hasn't happened yet for him. And I almost wonder if the committee feels like, okay, we'll do it, but we're going to do it on. on our terms. We don't want to, we don't want it to look like we just all got swept up seeing a guy on TV a bunch over the last few weeks. So, you know, we're going to pump the brakes a little bit. I do wonder if, if that ends up happening with Rod Brindymore, which I guess is my way of saying, especially to the Carolina fans out there, if he doesn't get the call on Monday, that doesn't necessarily mean game over. That doesn't mean that this is the door is never going to be more open. And if he doesn't walk through on Monday, then, you know, that I wonder if the committee is just kind of going,

right guys maybe next year maybe the year after but let's not make it look like the decision got made for us we're still the ones who who make the picks and so you know we're gonna we're gonna wait just a little bit i i wonder if that's how it plays out and this is true the voting body for that for that honor just in the it's crazy it's 18 people right like that's it's a wildly so you're talking literally single digits there could be in this i'm not saying specifically about brindamore i'm saying this about everybody who comes up for discussion there could be a small a very very small small faction of people that say, you know, Brindamore's out or McGillney's out or X, Y,

any, any, you know, debate we had had over the last bunch of years. He could, he could make it unanimously. He might not even be discussed on Monday the way the process works. If he, if nobody puts their hand up and uses their, their pick on him, it's, it's very strange. But I mean, if I had to bet, I think he gets in at some point in the next five years. I'm not convinced it's Monday, but we'll see. We'll see.

We shall see. And we shall see on Monday, actually, Frankie. We are, the three of us are back on Monday. It's going to be so fun when we're on live on Monday and Frankie's cell phone rings. And it's not, I know, it's not Lanny McDonald anymore. I don't know who it did, but it's Mike Gartner calling and Frankie gets the call from all his power play work. Can you guys come shine my shoes? Something like that.

We'll help you. We'll help you tie the tie and all of that. In my, first ballot in my personal hall of fame, Frankie Crato. I got to go. We're done. Thank you, buddy. Bye, bye, bye. See it, boys.

Stick around me and McIneur to come back. We're going to talk what we learned about the PWHL draft and also the future of hockey night in Canada. See in a second. All right, we are back. Sean McIndoo. I would like to tell you what I've learned. What have we learned, Sean?

I learned that Haley Salvean, my one-time co-host on this show. we haven't done a show together and God knows how long. It's insane. She went four for four on the first four picks of the PWHL draft last night. That is difficult to do in any draft, let alone, let alone this one, because there were some off-the-board picks. We had KK. Harvey gets taken first overall. Not a surprise there. Abby Murphy, second overall to Seattle.

Okay. third pick was Tessa Janicki to Vegas, and that is where things went off of the boards. Vegas needed a center. Haley sniffed that out. Janicki was the best one from the group. Obviously, she was outstanding at Penn State. That bump Layla Edwards, who was certainly in the mix at three, but bumped her down to four for San Jose. So Haley went four for four there, and I don't know, man.

I think that's very impressive to me. Because the mock draft game is funny in any sport. It is. But some years are easier than others. What Haley did yesterday reminded me of Pranman with Corey Pramman in the... Ungodly run by him. It was incredible. Because I remember when he had...

Because I remember when he had, he put his mock out with Shane Wright dropping to fourth. And people said, you're out of your mind. Crazy. And it played out. It was the same thing. It was kind of like, I remember seeing like the, when, when Vegas made that pick yesterday, it was, you know, you've seen people going, oh, this is out of nowhere. I don't know. And I'm going, not for everybody.

It's not. I know. Somebody who relies on Haley to tell me what's going on in that league. I saw this coming because she saw it coming. So, kudos to her. 10 out of 12 first round picks, correct for Haley. Also some interesting stuff that just took place in the draft in the draft in general. Yeah, so head over there for the for the full roundup.

God, the FWO off season is is complete. I just wish it was more complicated. Yeah, I wish. They should add some more phases and add some more, add some more clauses and more pages to the 20 page expansion draft. Expansion roster allocation process, I should say. Look, I understand that this league doesn't, you know, they don't need male fans. but you want as big an audience as possible. And I got to say on behalf of the men,

you got to simplify this if you want us to really pay it. Like, you can't have different phases and everything. It's got to be, you just six phase, six phases of roster building. One phase, small words,

maybe some pictures and I'm on board. But you got to, right colors. Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm looking for. I learned something this week that bummed me out, which is that hockey,

in Canada is no more. I can barely believe I'm saying that. And I should explain this for, I think primarily for the Americans who, because it's a little bit confusing. So Sportsnet has the rights up here in Canada, the national rights. They had them previously on the previous deal. and they would then license out games to other places, including the CBC with the traditional Saturday night hockey night Canada games. And with the new deal that is kicking in imminently, SportsNet still has those rights, but they have announced that they are no longer going to work with CBC. And whether that's a SportsNet thing or CBC or, you know, they just couldn't agree on a price or a scenario that worked.

and the CBC owns the rights to hockey night in Canada. And so this doesn't mean that there is no more Saturday night hockey in Canada, and it doesn't mean that you won't necessarily see a lot of the same faces that you've been seeing on hockey night in Canada, but it won't be called hockey night in Canada and it won't be on the CBC. And that just stinks, man. Like, it's, it's such a bummer. And I say this is someone, you know, obviously I've got SportsNet and all the streaming services. And most people do up here.

There's not too many people watching hockey on bunny ears anymore. But it's still, it's just one more thing. One more twist of the night. This is not, this has not been a fun time to be a hockey fan in Canada in recent years for a whole lot of reasons. And this is just one more twist of the knife that, you know what? 70 years of getting the family together and turning on the CBC and watching Hockey Night Canada, it's done. You're going to have to buy this channel and that channel and this service and stream here and all of it. And it's just, I mean, it's just one more thing.

And yeah, we probably should have seen it coming. And yeah, a lot of us were already watching their Saturday Night games on Sportsnet anyways. So maybe it doesn't change all that much. It had the branding, though. Like this is like if branding. And look, I mean, it's at some point, and it wouldn't shock me if at some point, SportsNet and CBC just got together and said, is there something we can do? Can we license the brand?

Can we do this or that? And maybe, maybe that's how it plays out. But down the line, maybe. I don't know, man. It's just, it's to say that you're going to turn on the CBC on a Saturday night and you're not going to see Leafs and Havs or you're not going to see Vancouver and Edmonton coming up in the late game. It stinks, man.

And I know it's the bottom line. It's all about, you're paying $11 billion to broadcast this league. It all becomes financial. It just stinks. There's some version that happening with the NFL where, you know, we're seeing, you know, there's games on Thursdays and there's games on Tuesdays and there's games on Christmas and, you know, like it's been so spread out. And there are mechanisms in place for the NFL now where like CBS and Fox, which are the primary, you know, early window networks, they're going to get less games to choose from them, blah, blah, blah.

Like it's happening to some degree, like in the NFL, which is obviously the closest analog in the States. But we're still going to be able to watch one o'clock games on CBS and Fox. And we're still going to watch Sunday night football on NBC and Monday night football on ABC. Like those aren't going anywhere. The quality of the games might be lesser, but we're still going to get. you know the packaging around it and that's and that counts for a lot man and it in it in the seat in the hockey nine cana thing is there is no it's a winding way I mean to say that there is no analog there for for any sport in the United States and I'll I'll just say this as my last thought

on this is is the the Stanley Cup final we just watched which was a great final uh entertainment value off the charts did quite well ratings wise in the United States sort of buried under that good news was that it did very poorly up in Canada. And I will just say that this seems like yet another decision by the NHL and its partners and its stakeholders that is so much of what this league has done and not done in recent years seems to be based on the assumption that Canadians will always watch hockey. And there is, you can take them, go ahead and call it taking them for granted. or whatever you want.

Hockey is a permanent part. The NHL is a permanent part of Canadian culture, and it'll never, ever go away. And there is nothing that you can do to those fans and those viewers. There is no penny that you could squeeze out of them that will ever be the final straw. They will always watch. Maybe they're right.

Maybe they're not. I guess we'll find out. But it is, it's an interesting bet to make. if you're the NHL and Sportsnet and everything, because personally, I think at a certain point, you poke fan base enough times. You feed people slop for long enough. And I'll tell you, it's, if that were to happen,

it's not, first of all, it's not going to be an overnight thing, and it's not going to be something you can reverse overnight. It won't be like there'll be some final straw. And then you go, oh, okay, well, you know what, we'll put the brand. landing back on occupying. It's the slow boat. That's that's what we're talking about.

It is you are you are slowly but surely pushing an audience that still drives the revenue in this league. You're pushing them further and further away. Maybe there is no such thing as too much. Maybe there is, but you know where the line is. You're depressing me. Or maybe at some point everyone looks around and goes, damn. We may, we, we should have, we should have been looking out for that audience that was our golden goose more than we were. And now that we figure that out, maybe it's too late.

Hey, why is the bar empty all of a sudden? Do people not eat here anymore? That's, that's, that's what the vibe's going to be. All right. God, what a downer. Holy hell, McIndoe. This is what happens with Frankie leaves. Just two depressive losers.

Yeah. What, what post is going up next? This is Thursday, so do you have a Friday? I'm going to look at, yeah, I've got a post going up tomorrow on something I like to do around this time of year. I've got a half dozen active players that I think are shaping up to be a tough Hall of Fame. Obviously, there's some active players that are shared things, and there's lots of active players who aren't coming near it,

but there's a half dozen that I picked out that I think are, you know, maybe going to be on the fence. See, we're simply not. content with pissing off every Carolina Hurricanes fan on the internet yesterday. You wanted to spread the well to other fan bases, I see. That's right. Yeah. I want everyone to, and none of these guys get in until Robert anymore does. There we go. Easy, peasy. Thank you, buddy, and thank you, Frankie, and thank you fun folks for watching us and listening to us. The three of us are back for a special Monday edition of the Wednesday show. Again, that's on Monday. Head of the draft in Buffalo later this

week. Enjoy. Oh, I guess we're in the offseason now. I hate to hate to admit it. Enjoy that content. Enjoy the draft stuff. And we'll be back to talking a couple days.