The Athletic Hockey Show - Is Jacob Markstrom the goaltender the New Jersey Devils have been looking for?

Episode Date: June 20, 2024

Hailey, Max and Sean discuss the New Jersey Devils trade for goalie Jacob Markstrom and the Calgary Flames failure to win a trade in the Craig Conroy era. They discuss Pierre-Luc Dubois getting yet another fresh start, this time in DC, with the LA Kings upgrading their goaltending with Darcy Kuemper and a dejected Barclay Goodrow joining the San Jose Sharks on waivers. Before that, they discuss how the Oilers and Panthers have got to game six of the Stanley Cup Final and if Connor McDavid can lead his team to force a game seven. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. What's up, everybody? It's another Thursday edition of the athletic hockey show. It's Haley Max and Sean here with you. And guys, we are blessed with a nice little news cycle on this Thursday morning. How are you feeling? There's a lot to talk about today. This is good.

Thank you. Hockey gods. Yeah, I don't know why, but I just got a stranger urge to trade my goalie. What would we have talked about today if that stuff didn't happen? yesterday. I think we would have had to do a deep dive pod on Connor McDavid. Does he win the Kahn Smythe or not, despite the fact that everyone's been talking about that for five days now?

That is true. It started after, Wushanski started it after game four, maybe during game four. So it, which was by my calendar, let's see, flipping through it, flipping through it. That was, that was, that was 19 days ago. Yeah, that was several months ago before it became 100 degrees in many U.S. states. How hot is it in Florida right now? Has anyone looked? I guess that's off track. Not my problem.

Yeah, yeah. I'm sure some writer will tell us very soon if they haven't yet. Right. They get back to game seven and say, oh my God, it's really hot in sunrise. This is unbelievable. Rental card dashboard thermometer season, baby, we're here. as much as I hate that they're still playing hockey on June 20th and I looked back. Actually, it was strange. I don't know why I had this picture on my phone,

but there was like a pictures from a year ago, like, you know, 10 days ago. And it was a picture of like Mark Stone with the Stanley Cup. So I guess I was like really happy for the Golden Knights last year because I have a picture of Mark Stone with the cup on my cell phone apparently. But it was like over a week ago that the. Cup final ended last year. So it's June 20th. We're still talking about the Cup final. There's still potentially two games left. And as much as I hate that, I think this stuff needs to end sooner. I'm really happy with the way that the series has gone. I'm sure there's Panthers fans who are

upset with that. I know there was a lot of them who thought the series was perfect and amazing through the first three games, but this is more like it, right? Game five was unbelievable. And the Oilers take that series back to Alberta. This is kind of what we thought. it was going to be when we said this has the ingredients to be a very good cup final definitely i think that was i i mean i i got blessed saying that for sure at points like this should be a really good final but that means it's probably going to be over in five or whatever that's truly how i felt coming into it i didn't know who the team that would win in five would be though right so i was like it doesn't matter. It'll be the Oilers or

it'll be the Oilers or it'll be the Panthers. The thing that's the thing that's true because we as hockey, you know, media and hockey fans can't have nice things is going to be that this doesn't quite live up to the hype. And I think we're

almost there. I think after the last two games there's always some amount of disappointment. I feel like if a series starts out 3-0 and then ends in four or five or six like you put that in a part

of your brain where you're like this this doesn't mean as much as it would if it were alternating victories or whatever but I think we're close I think we're almost there and I think maybe regardless of what happens on Friday night we're not going to look back on this one as a dud

whereas I don't think we could have said that a few days ago right whether it's because of McDavid it's because they're just making it closer or whatever like this isn't going to go down in the history of books is some snooze fest like certain other cup finals have in the past. Yeah. And I think we're getting kind of the character of the series that we wanted to, right?

Like we wanted Florida's depth against the Oilers big guns. And while I think we've maybe attention-wise given all of it to Connor McDavid when he maybe only deserves 70% of it and, you know, guys like Connor Brown and Dylan Holloway have been really compelling and really good players as well, we are now seeing. the McDavid at least attempted takeover. There certainly was a takeover last game. His play to Corey Perry was one of the best assists. I've seen all playoffs all year after he had.

I'm having one of the best goals of the playoffs, not too long ago. So it is fun to see the McDavid show and it is fun to see Florida try to combat it. Game six is going to be fantastic. Did you guys see, I think Laz tweeted about this? And like obviously it's, you know,

I don't think it was actually a thing, but there was like a funny moment where McDavid makes that great play and then the assist to Corey Perry and Corey Perry like turns away and like celebrates with like the other guys instead of going to like McDavid. It was like Corey Perry, you didn't do anything. They opened the circle up. I know. I know.

But like of course, of course Laz like made a thing of it. And I was like, that's actually really funny to just be like, yeah, I scored. I love the angle. Allison pointed this out. I think it was Ray Ferraro had I don't know if you guys saw the ESPN Sean you probably did the ESPN

but Ray Ferrar points out that like there was like debate between Perry and Darnell Nurse over who should go out of the ice there like that's a great you know for the 20 years from now Sean when when the next you know whatever our the next version of our pandemic era

rewatches are where we go back and that's going to be the one that sticks out from this game. Why would you say that I just got like a I'm not saying it's going to be a pandemic I said like whatever the next version of those rewatches are. Yeah. Me and Max had a very poorly read set of posts in the spring of 2020 where we went back and watched old games.

And it was like, I think people read the first one and decided they didn't like it and tuned out the ensuing couple. So whatever. Yeah, Darno and Nurse talked about that too. CJ caught up some after the game. We'd mentioned this a bit on a bit on Wednesday about that, about that uh about that play entirely that's that's real that's really cool stuff that's that's compelling stuff where you know nurse is basically like i'm i can't do this like get out there

and lo and behold you know the end result is man that's an all-time highlight reel for uh item for mc david and you know for court fairy yeah it's a that's a that's a that's a needed pick me up for for Cory Perry for sure. But like it's a man, it's if, uh, if they pull this off, you know,

if we're talking in a couple days about game seven or, or whatever, that goal. Mm-hmm. I think that's it. I do. I think, I think that's,

that's going to take hold as like the moment that stuff really truly, you know, got flipped on its side. And it's, and it's, and, because it is.

is. It's, it's, it's like, it was funny in, in, in some ways. Like, it's, I, I, I, I love that. We talked to Frankie about it, you know, shameless plug for the Wednesday show. Frankie was great about it, too, because we're like, Frank who? Frank C. Former, former, former NHL defenseman. Athletic commenter, Frank C? Yeah, athletic commenter, Frank C. As long as it's not, I'm actually not even going to name drop anyone. There's one commenter who's very hateful in all of my students.

Don't need to bring him up. Don't let him know that you know he exists. Yeah. Don't let him know that I'm super rattled every time he knows of his stories. You're about to say that goal is the reason McDavid should get the cons smite there. I think that goal might be the reason he does get the cons. Okay. So I want to get back to the Connor Brown that you mentioned, Max,

because you mentioned how the depth for the Oilers has been showing up here. just think that Connor Brown has been or has become a really great story. I mean, he went on the 720 day streak without scoring. And now here he is in the Stanley Cup final. And he's been playing a really big role in these last two games for the Edmonton Oilers. Obviously, he gets the short-handed goal in game five. And then he helps out on the short-handed goal the game before. They became the first team ever to score back-to-back short-handed goals. to open the scoring in the Stanley Cup final and Connor Brown's fingerprints are all over that.

And I just think he deserves a little bit of flowers because, like, this was, I read this from Mike Zyzeberger, actually, and it was Connor McDavid who kind of went on the recruiting mission to get Connor Brown to come to Edmonton. And Connor Brown was like, I mean,

what do you say when the best player in the world is being like, hey, you should come and play on my team. I think you'll be a great fit. And we didn't always see that throughout the year. again, a massive scoring drought for Connor Brown, but he's been the fit. I think they wanted him to be when it matters the most. Not to make too much out of Connor Brown,

I just think it's been a nice fit and he's playing well when it matters. I think that play by him also helped counterbalance a pretty brutal game by their bottom six. Like Florida's bottom two lines, or rather Edmonton's bottom two lines, got caved in pretty well by Florida. But when you have those guys contributing in other ways, especially on the PK,

I think that counterbalances some of the depth problems that they have at five on five. Connor Brown knows what he's doing on the PK, too. And that, that, that shorty is such a great example of that. Like, he's, he's in the right position, obviously, but also has, you know, the wheels necessary to beat Sasha Barkov in a puck race, right? So that's, that, that's a big play. and I think it's also an important, maybe not counterintuitive, but kind of a non-traditional way to combat the depth advantage that Florida has,

especially on the bottom six. Guys like Connor Brown are maybe my favorite thing about the NHL playoffs. You need 18, if not more than 18 of these guys to do this. And especially a guy like him, and you could probably point to Evan Rodriguez as kind of a comparable on the other side of guys who have bounced around a little bit, guys who have been questioned who have, who have to kind of take a little bit of a different role in the

NHL than maybe they were used to coming up. And I love when it pays off for them. And even if it's just one or two huge moments, right, Brown has two goals this playoffs. He does have half as many points already in the playoffs as he did the whole regular season. Yeah. But you get a shorthanded goal to open that game in an elimination game. If your team comes back and wins,

like it's undeniable that you played a significant role in that, right? Like, you can never take it away from you. You can go back to any doubts you may have had, any doubts others may have put on you. And it's like, well, I just helped this team win the Stanley Cup. So actually, yes, I'm pretty good. And I love that stuff. I live for it. I think it's great.

We're going to get to the inevitable cons my conversation, I think. But I do just have one question. Like, is it probably is. But like, is it too simple to say that like the big difference between the first three games and the last two is that Stuart Skinner is out playing Sergey Bobrovsky. I don't think it's too simplistic. No way. No way.

Skinner's looked like he's known what he's doing and Bob, you know, has regressed. I mean, we've seen two, we've seen a bad Bobrovsky start and then a middling one, let's say, in that last game. And that's the sort of stuff that he's avoided, really, in the playoffs, certainly in the playoffs, and honestly, to some extent in the regular season, too, where, you know, in the regular season, maybe the peaks weren't there, but he avoided the trenches, right? He avoided the valleys.

And I think, not to say that he's in one necessarily right now, but having two mediocre or worse games in a row, it's the exact kind of thing that we haven't seen from him in the playoffs. It's an interesting, uh, an interesting development here because like I said, coupled with him looking like, you know, a legit NHL starter,

at least in the last few days. Like, that's major. It's a major development. Did you guys see the graphic they put up about his stats in games four through seven versus one through three? Yeah. I mean, now. Dominant. Like, eight and no, the, the, the, say, percentage goes up to like, I don't, I actually don't even remember what the number was, but something bananas.

Wow. Becomes a different guy in the second half of three. I mean, what happened, what happened against Dallas, right? He gets yanked. And then. And then he was like a 917 goalie. And then he beats Ottinger. Yeah.

Bovrovsky's allowed nine goals against in his last two starts, an 826 save percentage in game five and a 68 in game four. I have never seen that. I have never actively gone and looked on a goalies page and seen a sub-700 save percentage before, I don't think. Is that a fatigue thing? Am I wrong? There was something about Bobrovsky and rest at one point, right?

Wasn't that like a common? is he hitting a wall? Is that what's happening here, do we think? Anthony Stoller started a decent amount of games for them. It wasn't a full-time-share situation, but... Yeah, he played 58 games in the regular season. Yeah, and Stollars, you know, was good in the minutes that he got, and we've seen him for, you know, whatever, a few minutes in a couple of games ago

when he got pulled, right? So I don't know. It's worth tracking, because... It does feel like, and whatever, it's goalies so that, you know, it could flip back in game six and then the series is over, but it does feel like we've seen something shift a bit this week. This will be, game six will be Bobrovsky's 81st game this season. But I don't really know if you can use that as an excuse because Stuart Skinner, I think, has played more. Yeah, a lot younger. Yeah.

I think there's arguments in both sides of it, right? Where Skinner's younger, you know, he hasn't played as many but still played a ton. I think they've actually both played. They have both played 80 games to this point this season. Because once the Jack Campbell situation well and truly fell apart, you know, it was Skinner all day every day. Basically from mid-November on wasn't supposed to. the way it was supposed to be, but that's the way it turned out. So, no, it's fascinating.

They got two games to close it out, but he, he probably costs himself the consmite candidacy he had built up, right? Start of the series. Oh, yes, here we go. If the Oilers lose game six, like this is the big consmite conversation now, right? Does Connor McDavid win, even if the Edmonton Oilers lose? I'm interested in your guy.

takes on this one. I've exhausted the tank. Oh, thank you. I was about to say, Max, what do you think? I don't like the idea of giving it to a player in a losing effort. I really don't. I know he's been really good. But I also think in games one through three, I don't think there was really a case for this, right? Like, we're really talking. And he was a good, not say he wasn't a good player. Like, he's still good underlines and all that. But Barkov was largely keeping him in check. Yeah. And that just happens to be the guy who was the favorite coming into the series. So it's not like we're talking about three games from Barkov here. If you zoom out, Barkov's got the better expected goals numbers actually throughout the playoffs. McDavid does

have the better actual goals. And I do think this is the time of year we should care about the actual goals more. So I will eat that a little bit. But I think if it's even close and it is, both of those guys have actual goals shares north of 60 percent. Barcove's been dominant at both ends of the ice. I think if it's even close and I think it is, then it has to go to a player from the winning team. I think it's almost insulting to not give it to a guy from the winning team.

I love it. That's spicy. Yeah, I'm really hung up on the if they lose part of this. This wouldn't be the first time a player on a losing team won the Kahn Smythe. Jean-Sabastian Jiguerre

did it in 2003. But like, the goal, like the Kahn Smyth is about helping your team win the Stanley Cup. And if they don't win the Stanley Cup, I he didn't do that. I guess the devil's advocate to Max's point,

just so him and I are both not in agreement, is the point production and the thing, like the records that Connor McDavid is breaking. He has the most points in a single Stanley Cup final for an active player right now. He's at 11. He's also tied for the most points when facing elimination in a single playoff year.

And I think that's a big one for me. you know, it hasn't just been that he's stepped up, like, when it matters the most. Like, they could have been knocked in this series, I should say, because they could have been knocked out of the playoffs by Vancouver in game 6 and 7. He had three assists in those two games. And Ollie is 11 points in four elimination games, tying him with Justin Williams and Anzay Kopitar from the 2014 run and make his advantage out from 2022.

So him playing really well when they're up against the ropes. is what does it for me. I think if they lose in game six on Friday night, I think if Barkoff has a great game, if Bob pitches a shutout, I think you've got to give it to somebody on Florida. But if Connor McDavid has another unbelievable game, he's also having back-to-back four-point games,

like facing elimination, like he's not just being okay. He's been dominant these last two games. I think if McDavid puts together another insane, like we are not ending our season type game, I think he could win it if they lose in game seven. Part of the reason he's put up so many points facing elimination is because he's been facing elimination for two games

and that was his fault. At least part of it was. Yes. We just said that Stewart, Stuart Skinner had a six, like, that was Bobroffsky, but he's on the team,

but he's on the team, right? How many points did Connor McDavid have in the first three games that they lost? One. It's tough. That's what, that's what, and I'm at the point now.

where I think he's one more good game away from A, getting it and B, basically deserving it. That's what I just said. That's what I just said. I know. I just, I'm, I feel the need to reinforce that they are down three games, that they were down three games of zero partially because of him. He's not blameless there. If Matthew Kach has one, if Matthew Kach has one, if Matthew Kach goes crazy in game six, does he have a case for the cons? because he he didn't really show up in the way that like he did last year until game five. But I think we should give Matt, here's my pitch. Give, hang on a second. Give Matthew Kachukh, the cons might because of that goal line save he made in game five. If that would,

go Edmund Larson into the sun for giving up on the play. And shame on you, Connor McDavid, for scoring anyways. Matthew Kuchuk laid out and did. one of the most impressive things. And then you scored anyways. Give him the consmite instead. If they would have come back and tied that game and then won an OT or whatever, I think a Chuck probably would have gotten it.

I think people, I think people would have lost, people would have lost their marvels to such a degree in the press box. When Pierre is walking around with his little slips of paper collecting the votes, I think people would have been so captivated by that moment. They would just be like, yeah like fine whatever like Barkoff

Barkoff got beat by Connor Brown shorthanded on the foot race and Matthew Kachuk just saved the season give it to him I agree I can be imprisoned

discourse now I can be imprisoned by the moment with the best of them but that would be some some big time prisoner of the moment yeah

here's my thing one more thing to tack on you're putting Connor McDavid in a terrible spot if you give him the Khan Smyth in a losing effort. If he's got to walk into that depressed locker room with a trophy. Yeah, does you have to come out and accept that?

puts him in a horrible spot. Yeah. Like that's a, that's a tough thing for like on multiple ways. Can you imagine that? Can you imagine someone saying I'm not going to vote. I'm not going to vote McDavid for for Kahn Smyth because I, because I feel bad.

I don't want to make him feel bad. But like that's, it's kind of the whole thing. It's like it's such a like, That's why I mean. It's a little bit insulting to Florida, right? So you're telling Florida like, sorry, I know you just won the championship, but this guy was clearly better than you all. So he gets the trophy.

And then McDavid, who's heartbroken, who just came this close to fulfilling like this ultimate goal that people have kind of both, I'm sure internally is like his whole driving factor, but also the one that he knows he's going to be judged by. And he walks in there with, and that the consmite is not a small trophy. He walks in there and everyone's depressed and maybe crying and he's just lugging around this giant trophy. come on.

He's not do that. Sorry, Stuart Skinner. Like my trophy and you're part of your locker. He's lugging around that trophy and taking it back to that weird death star aesthetic house. I like their house. Don't even. I think Lord has a fabulous job.

And he's putting that trip. Like, where does that go? Where do you put the cons money when you lost? On their. You would never see it. He might melt it down. That architecture digesting like resurfaced recently.

I don't have their kitchen memorized by heart, okay? Also, I don't know why you guys are hating on my Kachuk take because he's leading the Panthers and scoring. What's your problem? You know who should get the cons? My, Phil Kessel.

He should get it as payback for 2017. He deserved it then. Was that the year that Malkin won? That was Crosby. Oh. All right. Well, I don't know why you just took a...

And you only deserve one of them. Why'd you take a hard ride into Penguins chat? We've been talking about this for 20 minutes. It's not Penguins chat. It's Phil Kessel. Folks, let's just end the show. We ended up doing a cons might cup final deep dive. That's it.

There's nothing else. to talk about. Just kidding. There was actually two trades last night. As Max mentioned earlier, everyone decided to trade their goalie. Everyone's hyperbole. It was two teams traded their goalies.

We're going to talk about it next on the athletic hockey show. All right. So while the Edmonton Oilers and Florida Panthers are making the 2,500-mile trek back to Alberta for game six, catch us next week and we'll talk about their flight plans. Because I'm sure we'll still be talking about it. Some teams started looking ahead to the offseason yesterday. yesterday, two big trades on Wednesday. Number one, the flames traded a goalie Jacob Markstrom to the New Jersey Devils in exchange for a 2025 first round pick that is top 10 protected

in defender Kevin Ball. Calgary also retained with 31.2% of his salary, around 1.9 million in salary, meaning the Devils get a number one goalie and Jacob Markstrom for $4.125 million for two years. Didn't have to give up a roster player, didn't have to give up a great prospect, didn't give up their 10th overall pick, although I don't think that was ever going to happen. Then the second trade of the day, the L.A. Kings traded Pierre-Dubois to the Washington Capitals for another fresh start in exchange for Darcy Kemper.

No salary retention in boys, the trade was one for one. I love that. But let's start with the first one. Let's start with Calgary and Jacob Markstrom to the devil's. Max, your initial thoughts. I think like everybody, I thought Markstrom would cost New York.

Jersey more. Actually dating back to the trade deadline, Harmon Dial and I usually do our like perfect fits for like we match up team player fits and propose a trade. And I remember I proposed something like Holtz in a first round pick. And Harmon talked me down from it. And we went with the talk down version. I think it was like holds in a second. And in the back of my mind, I was like, I just think they're going to get more for more than that for Markstrom. And he ended up being way closer to right than I was, right? the future pick that we think is probably more like a 20s pick going to New Jersey. And Kevin Ball, who I think is solidly a third pair defenseman. And it, you know, it seems like maybe I and maybe others overestimated the cost on some of the goalies.

Maybe Markstrom's age played more of a factor than we were giving credit for. Like I think Corey had said on the show last week that he did not think 10 for Markstrom was realistic because, he comped the Corey Schneider trade for Beau Horvatt, and he's like, but Corey Schneider was way younger than Markstrom at that time. And I think that's where I was wrong, was, you know, expecting that a 34-year-old goalie would match what Markstrom at, you know, 29 or 30 would have. I still would have like to see the flames do better than this, though.

Yeah. Sean, go ahead first. Then I'll chime in because I feel like I have a lot to say. The deal that Harm proposed as like the, the counterbalance to you shooting too high was Holtz in a second round pick. I would take that over that is

solidly better than the package they got. Yeah. I'm sorry. Apology to Kevin Ball. Considering the salary retention and the consideration on the pick, I would take a non-conditional second in Alex Holtz over this deal any day. Yep. For

Jacob Marks from it, 4.125, right? That's crazy. Look, Jacob Markstrom is not a perfect goaltender. Max, Haley, you guys mention it. He's 35 years old. 34. 34. He turns 35 in January, I believe. So, you know, he's alternated good seasons and kind of mediocre ones for the last handful. Not perfect. We're not talking about Igor Shisterkin or whatever.

even Corey Schneider at that point, frankly, for the Vancouver Canucks. I get it. But, but, but this is the single biggest need that they had. And the money retained is what gets me. And when I found out that that was part of the package, that's when I was like, this is a loss for Calgary. And I know that. In the top 10 condition for me.

Because if Markstrom ends up turning 35 and has a terrible year and Jack Hughes gets hurt again, and Dougie Hamilton doesn't come back the way we thought he was and the devil's suck. The devils get their top 10 pick. It's brutal. And I know that Markstrom had the no movement clause and I know that he was swinging it and whatever.

You gotta get something. Like a ton of salary retention, a protected, like get one, get like win one quadrant of the deal. Don't let the pick be protected. Yeah. Don't retain so much money. Because that is also now money that's going to be on Calgary's books, you know, for the next two years that they could use elsewhere.

They're using the salary retention slot, right? Yeah, but they free up $4 million at the end, too. They free up $4 million, but they lose a salary or retention spot, which they could, which they. Well, you want to buy out Michael Backland already? You don't think maybe a year from now? Oh, Jonathan Hubertoe, my bad. You don't think a year from now, maybe they're like, well, we want to trade Uberdo in Nazim Kodry. And it gets a whole hell of a lot tougher when you're retaining $2 million on your pretty good goal tender.

It was crazy. I didn't want to give Calgary a D plus for this deal because of the no movement element, right? Because Marksram wanted to land in Jersey, like he flexed the muscle and got there. He said that it wasn't a like them or nothing ultimatum, but like it does sound like his camp. Close enough. decided that Jersey was the destination and that there was like no other conversations like they they kind of tied conroy's hands of like you have to negotiate with the devils um that's like that's a way to get around saying too like it wasn't new jersey or nothing

like i'm sure he would have accepted a trade to whatever the rangers or tampa or or nashville or all these other teams that you know wouldn't that wouldn't trade for him and don't need him So theoretically, that's true, but in practice, it isn't. So like I said, I feel I gave Calgary a bad grade. I felt bad about it to some extent because it's because there were extenuating circumstances, but win some part of the trade and that didn't happen. Really quick, one thing on the retention too. Like my rule of thumb with retention and buyouts is if you can't replace the player for

whatever the final, like, freed up cap spaces, it's probably not. not as good of an idea as it sounds like. And I think at $6 million, you can have a reasonable expectation of replacing Jacob Markham, not that that's really the Flames goal in the short term, I guess. But at $4 million, I don't think you are. And so, like, that's where it goes into a different territory for me. Right. So, I mean, the Flames will go fully into the Dustin Wolf era.

And Dan Bladar is still under contract, even though he had major hip surgery in the offseason. So that's going to kind of be their tandem unless they go and look for a veteran guy to help those two because I think those two have combined for something like only 82 NHL starts in their careers right so they're going really young in the crease my first thought when I saw the trade was like that's it it's not egregiously bad for Calgary I get it the no movement clause Markstrom's 34 his overall numbers over the last few years haven't been great save for the 922 year that he had when he was a runner up for the Vesna

But we also have to consider the environment he was in, too. Like there was a lot of movement and drama. This was not the Flames team that Jacob Markstrom signed up to play for. This was not the plan that he thought he was entering, like the long-term plan for an organization that he signed this deal with, right? His first season, Calgary, he wasn't great. He was overplayed. They have a coach firing.

Daryl Sutter comes in. They end up playing better. The next year he has that unbelievable Bezna runner-up season. Then the year after that, he doesn't play great. great. He had some injury issues, I believe. And that was the year where Sutter ends up getting fired at the end of the year and the locker rooms all split between guys who hate Daryl, love Daryl or don't give a shit. So that year was a mess. And then this year, the team wasn't very good. Markstrom was very good this season. He was third and goals saved above expected. So he was

playing very well this season despite what was happening in front of him. So we can look at Markstrom's numbers and say they weren't great. But we can also look at what was happening in that organization and say like look at how much change happened over these four years for this guy who was sold on look at our core we're going to win like there's no matthew kuchuk and johnny goddrow mark de urdano sean monahan in that locker room anymore like maybe geo and and sean monahan are like the big bell of the ball there it's more kichuk and uh goddrae but like this was not the flames team that he signed with at all and his i think his play yo-yoed with where the organization was at to an extent. But still, he's two years removed from being the runner up for the Vesna

trophy. And he was third and goal saved above expected last year. So I understand why the return wasn't very high because you could say, well, he had some injury issues. He's older and he's like a 906 goalie over the last four years. But I think when you watch Jacob Markstrom, you know what he looks like when he's on. Like, I don't think this is a below average goalie, as some people are saying. And at the end of the day, for me, more than anything, like, this isn't even like a knock on Craig Conroy. Because I look at that and say, eh, not egregiously bad. It's not great. More than anything, this is unbelievable work by Tom Fitzgerald because they get, regardless of what you think of Jacob Markstrom or his age or whatever, he is a significant upgrade on VTEC vane check.

And he is only going to cost them around $4 million for the next two seasons. they did not have to give up an Alex Holtz or a Nemich. They didn't give up their 10th overall pick. They didn't touch their roster or their prospect pool, and they got Jacob Markstrom on the cheap. Like, that's an unbelievable trade by Tom Fitzgerald for me. But I guess this is going to be an interesting one to watch because if Markstrom comes in and has kind of a bad year

or he ends up getting hurt or he falls off, then maybe I can understand some fans being like, ooh, that's an overpay. But as of right now, I like this trade by the devils. They got Jake Allen playing behind them, too. That's a big, just overall that the devils have done so much to improve their goaltitting. And it was like, it was long past time.

I mean, we're saying Jacob Marksram had average a 906 over the last five years. If he averages a 906 over the last five years in New Jersey, they've made the playoffs three times. It was, it was, it's true. And it speaks to how brutal that situation has been for Jack Hughes's entire career, let's say. There was that one stretch where McKenzie Black would look like he was maybe going to be a guy.

Other than that, nothing. Nico does, Akira Schmidt, Van, like, whatever. The list goes on. These guys have all been bad. Like 906 is such a titanic upgrade based on what, they've had that it's a total no-brainer. No-brainer. And I think putting him in an environment where like winning is actually possible is going to get the best out of him too. It would not shock me if he's back above 9-10 next year just on the like the adrenaline almost of, you know,

being in a situation where the games matter. He can win, whatever. I don't think he had a very good first year in in Calgary. And so maybe there's a little bit of an adjustment. But also remember that adjustment was mostly difficult because it was like COVID restriction time. And like he couldn't actually like meet his teammates properly outside of the room or like go out for dinner. So he's moving from Vancouver to Calgary and like stuck inside. And I think that was the bigger problem for Markstrom. But also he did take a while to adjust. So that will be interesting to see now that you're allowed to go outdoors.

Maybe it'll be better. Getting Jacob Markstrom and getting Markstrom and Allen for a round, around $6 million. Here was an interesting comparable. I saw this from a Sends fan or somebody from Sends' Twitter. The Ottawa senators are paying Corpus Allen and Foresburg

$6.75 million next season. And the devils have Markstrom and Jake Allen for $6 million. So think about how that situation having Markstrom and Allen is going to help Luke Hughes and Simone Nemich too now versus like

they have a layer of protection where those guys, a little bit of a rocky road for them last season. I think it's fair to say. But part of that is because, I thought he was good last year. He will, I don't, I don't mean to slack, but like, like those guys are going to be really,

like, all signs points are really good, but it's like a tough adjustment in that. Those guys are, those guys, those guys are young defensemen trying to play big minutes for a team with actual expectations, but they also have BTEC Vanich playing behind them for however many starts it was, right? So now you get them some protection.

You get Dougie coming back, you know, fingers crossed for them, I suppose. Like they're prime to make the leap, man. They have all the problems that derailed them last season, shit goaltending, injured defensemen, all that stuff. That is about to be fixed. Like, I know we've said it for years now, but this does seem finally, like the devil. Like the devils have, you know, meaningfully built out the roster and kind of safeguarded

against stuff, against, you know, situations like, like we saw last year. I still remember doing the TSN, like, free agent frenzy day, and the devils had signed Bannichick. And I was doing like, I was like, you know, the board girl and just being like, here's who's available. Here's who signed. And I still remember doing that with Mike Johnson. being like, well, the devils get their goalie.

And he was like, did they really? And I was on live TV. And I remember being like, did they not sign Vannichek? And he was like, yeah, I don't think he's a number one goalie. And I was like, I thought I just said something wrong. But Mike Johnson just fully like, did they really get their number one goalie, Haley? Did they? I was like, what do you mean?

They just signed this guy, right? When they made that trade, we were at the draft in Montreal, I believe. They traded for him. Yeah, sorry. Well, they traded for him. and then they extended him. Yeah, yeah. And me and Dom were, like, laying by the pool, I think.

And we got, like, alerts on our phone to go to the trade grades. And it's like, oh, okay. But, like, my whole take was, like, did they not just watch the Caps faceplant in the playoffs? Because this guy came out and, you know, swung and missed in the first couple games. The fact that they thought that that guy was the solution to. to any type of problem was wild at the time. And now it seems like two years later, they've well and truly fixed the situation.

Yeah. Looking at this maybe in the bigger picture way, very quickly here, because there was another trade, we've got to get to the Pierluke de Bois move. I just wanted to look at Craig Conroy in the last year. He's made 10 trades since becoming general manager, the Calgary Flames, in a year.

But here are some of the big ones. this season. The first big trade, Tyler Toffoli to New Jersey for Igor Saryngovic and a 2023 third round pick. Nikita Zedorov to Vancouver for a 2024 fourth and a 2026 third. Elias Linholm to the Knucks for Andre Kuzvenko, a 2024 first round pick, a 2024 fourth and the signing rights to two AHL like prospect type guys. Chris Tannup to Dallas for Artem Grushnikov in a 24 second. there was a conditional third in there, but the stars didn't make the cup final, sadly. So they didn't get that pick. Noah Hannafin to Vegas for Danielle Miramanov and a 2024 third and a 2026 first.

And then now the Markstrom deal. So just to kind of look at that. Calgary traded Tyler Tofoli, Nikita Zedorov, Chris Tannov, Elias Linholm, Noah Hanifin, and Jacob Markstrom, six top of the lineup players and got three first round. picks, one second, three thirds, two fourths, Gizmenko, Sharon Govich, Greshnikov, Miramanov, Kevin Ball, three depth defenders, those last three guys. You know, those are like third pair, maybe Kevin Ball can be on your second pair.

He's a four or five D at best, right? And then the signing rights for two younger prospects from Vancouver. No blue chip prospects, in my opinion. No, like, young player, like they didn't get like another Conner's area. They didn't get someone to like stock up that prospect covered, right? Because the two best prospects at Calgary has still are Connerzary and Matt Coronado. And then, you know, Dustin Wolfe, obviously. But like, Markstrom signifies that the rebuild is in full swing.

And I think the picks are obviously the big thing. They get, they have like, what, 15 top three picks in the next three years or something crazy. But like they didn't really get any like young players. So it's really like this rebuild is going to depend on what they can actually do with these draft picks. Because otherwise, I don't like what I don't really like what they got for all those players. Yeah, they traded all of their physical, hard, big playoff style defensemen and are left now chasing a guy like Kevin Ball because the rest of their defense score is not of that character at all. They traded. They traded Zadora to get who they hope can be young Nikita Zadorov.

They should be so lucky. Right. I mean, they would be very lucky. What's the door I'm going to get on the open market this year? Like four or five million dollars, I would think. Maybe more. Get paid, buddy. There's an argument they traded three guys who could be top four to five defensemen on a playoff team.

And, you know, the first round picks obviously are what this whole thing comes down to. If you come up aces on those and we're going to look stupid. But right now that you can make a good case, the best assets they have back are Sharon Govich and Kuzmenko, who are two like smaller offensive wingers. They traded a dollar for three dimes, five separate times or whatever. A dollar for three quarters. It was like three times. I don't think they were that bad.

No disrespect to protected first round picks and Yeager Sharon Govich. A dollar for three quarters, a bunch of like over and over and over again. It's not great process. I liked the Tofoli trade. I think Sharon Govich is younger. they get the third round pick and he out produced Tofoli last season and Tofoli, I mean, Tofoli ended up getting flipped to if you want to add like the entire package in terms of what New Jersey would have gotten, we can whatever revisit that however you want. But I thought the Tanev deal was like

underwhelming to me. The Hanifin deal was like bad in my opinion. I thought the Lin home trade, I think you can you can convince me that the Lin home deal was good. But I don't. I don't think the flames like overtly really won any of these deals. But I think what I thought about this a lot yesterday. And I was comparing what the flames have been doing to other rebuilds that we've seen in the past. And the flames missed their prime rebuild window by like three years, two, three years. Right.

Like the moment Johnny Goddrow walks is when you probably need to just blow it up. because that's when you are trading prime lin home off of a 40 goal season. That's when you're trading, Vesna runner-up Jacob Markstrom. That's when you're trading young top pair Hannafin and Tofoli's younger. And I mean, Zedora of probably wasn't as good at that point in time. But like, Chris Tanev is younger. Like, I think the reason the flames didn't really win any of these deals is these guys are between 28 and 35 years old.

right? Like this is not rebuilds of the past. When we, when we, you can't really compare this to the Sends rebuild because they were trading prime time Eric Carlson and young Mark Stone and young Matthew Shane even to a point. So as much as

I wanted to like kind of put the boots to Craig Conroy in the segment, the more I thought about it. I was like, yes, he didn't do a great job with what he had this year. But I also think this was more of an organizational misstep than a Craig Conroy mistake. And I think

not to take everything back to this, but he was put into a bad situation from the jump, especially, I think, by the Kachuk trade, which did not get significant futures. It boxed them into a situation where what they got back for the most important. You mentioned Kedrault, I think Kachuk

even more important. Well, that's what I mean. When Johnny walks, you take the best futures trade. Right, yes. Let's minimize the damage and try to win next year. Right. And it's not what happened. They got it. They need to take the futures and they tried to keep winning now. And they didn't, and now they're selling 35-year-olds as rentals on the market and getting crap.

Because that's what you went to 34-year-old rentals, right? Like, as much as we want to say Craig Conrad didn't do a good job, like, what are people supposed to pay for 34-year-old guys with one or two years left on their deal? And it kind of puts you on the path to how you can get to. I agree. I actually would argue in favor of the Lindholm trade, like getting Kuzmenko in a first. Like Kuzmenko was a 70-point player last year, even when he was in Calgary. He was like...

I think it was a good trade. 20 and 25 games kind of thing. Like I think that was a good trade for them. But we're still at a point where the best thing, the best things we're talking about they got in trades are like 26, 28 year old offensive wingers. Yeah. And obviously offense is a good thing.

I just mean like kind of more like one dimensional offensive. Totally. And I don't think you're building your franchise around that. You're still without the centers. You're still without the playoff style D. It asks so much of you in the draft, I think. Yeah. And we're seeing in a lot of places.

And Julian wrote something to this effect too. and I'm not saying I disagree with it, but like, does this mean the rebuild is on, whatever? What would mean the rebuild is on? Trade Nassim Khadry. Trade him the soft season. He was, he still profiles as a first line player. He was really good last year.

He was better last year, frankly, than I realized he was because I tuned out the flames at some point in, you know, February. Move that dude. We'll give Conroy the, We'll give him a mulligan on Uberdo because that deal is a catastrophe. He didn't sign that deal. It's not his fault. I don't know how.

I can't even imagine what getting out from under that would look like. Not the case with Nazan Khadry. He has real value. He's still a really good last year. He's still a really good player. He's got cup bona fides. He's got production. He's got grit.

Slot him on a middle six on a good team. Get something good. for him. And if that happens. 25 last year. Like that's a good, that's a good top of the lineup player. And if that happens, then the entire vibe around Craig Conroy, the entire

discussion around the Calgary Flames changes, that's how you kickstart a rebuild. You don't do it by getting a protected first in, you know, maybe a third pair guy for Jacob Markham. You do it by getting something real and meaningful for a good player that is signed for a long time and a lot of money. So get that done. And then we can start having a much more fun

conversation about the Gagree Flames, you know, air quotes, rebuild. I'll believe that when I see it. It's hard to say the rebuilds in full swing when you're paying Hubert O 10.5 million for seven more years and Cadre seven for five. And you've got Blake Coleman and Michael Backlin. You've still got McKenzie Weeger seven years until UFA. Rosmas Anderson has real value right now. And if you're really going to commit to a rebuild. Like, he's, if, if you're going to take seven years to be good again, like, maybe you trade him while he's still only 27 years old. Like, I don't know.

You got to. Did you imagine Andrew Mangi Apani? No, not yet. 28 years old, one year from UFA. Like, if they're really going to commit to a rebuild, you got to, you got to trade these guys before they're 34 and they're only worth a second round pick. Yep. So we'll see what happens.

Let's take a quick break. that ended up being a beefier conversation, but I do think the flames have been like really compelling for for a while now. So I actually think that was a great chat. And when we come back, we're going to talk about the Pierre-Luc Dubois trade. All right, we're back as promised.

It's time to talk about the Pierre-Luc Dubois trade. Just to recap, the LA Kings send him to the Washington Capitals, one-for-one for Darcy Kemper, not a big recap. I love it. I love the one-for-one trades. This one's really compelling for many reasons.

Max, do you want to start? What do you think about this deal? It's a Whopper, right? I didn't see it coming, really, although maybe you should have some of the telegraphing around it. I was having an afternoon margarita when this happened. I was very shocked. Which was spicier, the margarita or the trade? The trade. It was just a regular original lime. Fair enough. Always a classic. You know, I think the obvious here is L.A. gets out of a contract that they obviously regretted

very shortly after they signed it, right? I'm not wild about taking Kemper back either, honestly, necessarily, but it's a much shorter contract and it's going to sting less, in a lot of ways. Washington does get some upside here. Like Dubois already had three 60-point seasons at age 25. He's a big center. Like, there is upside here.

Yeah. I just don't think anyone's going to buy into that line of thinking until this guy proves he can be more consistent on a night-tenight basis. He is on fresh start number three now. And that like a fresh start sounds like really great. Any player can get stale, but it's like really hard to keep thinking. And maybe this is the fresh start that he needed.

Like this trade is going to test that theory, right? The thing is, and the fresh start actually do it for him. I don't think he needed a fresh start after Winnipeg, right? Like when at the time of the deal, like he had back to back 60 points seasons. Like maybe he wasn't a perfect player. And that's his deal, but that's not to me like something that like he had to do something.

He didn't need a first guy. It wasn't some huge on ice. It wasn't an on ice problem. It was like he wanted to just live somewhere else. Like, like, he wasn't playing bad hockey. Like he was unhappy in Columbus, goes to Winnipeg. That didn't really work out. The Kings thought this would make it better or whatever. That didn't happen. And now he's going to Washington. Like I at some point it's like, okay, what like cut the shit. respectfully. I get it. Look, I get that there's an air of malcontent here, right? I guess it would be the kindest way I could put it. But, like, it's two years ago, I don't think he, or sorry,

one year ago, I don't think it was like something has to change for this guy. It's not like he hasn't proven he can do it. It's just like, what is it going to take to get him to do it consistently? It's just, does he want to do it in this specific place? And I think that's really lame. You make millions of dollars. I'm sorry. Will you? Can we put him on the Montreal Canadians?

Will it happen? Let's like PLV in Montreal in two years. You're Montreal. Do you want him there after all this shit? At this point, with that contract, no way. I love this because it's kind of like, I don't know how Washington, I can't think of like a more appropriate trade

for the Washington capitals because it's like, they're not going to be good, but they have to try. because Alex Ovechkin is still there and Alex Ovechkin is still chasing Wayne Gretzky, I almost said Gordie Howe for some reason and he needs some running mates right like they're the Caps forward depth chart

is horrific horrific T.J. O'Shee who like sounded like a guy who was you know, on his last leg after that series against the Rangers. Yeah. From there on down,

he was like, he's like maybe their best, he's like maybe their best, their best, their best forward outside of Wephech, Genn and Tom Wilson. He's going to be in a fight for the number one center spot with Dylan Strong.

A hundred percent. Everything this organization does for the next two years, three years, or lump it is about getting that dude the goal rider. I appreciate them steering into this skid and just acknowledging that, you know, is this guy going to make us, uh, is this a trade that a team that's capable of winning, you know, a conference makes? No. Is it a trade that a team that just wants to surround,

uh, an aging goal score with some talent on the power play and, and potentially at five on five makes? Like, yeah, absolutely. I appreciate, appreciate them selling out, just being like, this is, this is who we are. We need, we, we can just roll the dice and gamble on this guy being good enough for the next few years. I'm just bummed out because this guy's in that like all tantalizing team in the NHL, right? You're just like, if he could, like, we've, we've, we've actually seen it. We've, like, imagine trying to tell someone after the bubble series and what, or the bubble playoffs and what he did in those playoffs. that this guy's trajectory was going to carry him to being kind of a quintessential,

like, yeah, he'll be a first-line center on a mid-team, but he won't work out when he's playing on an actual playoff team. That's like counter to how I was thinking about him at the time. It was like, get this guy into the playoffs more often and his reputation is going to soar. And it's gone the opposite way. And now he's getting traded for a goalie who got benched last year. Yeah. Yeah.

And it's like, it's tough because, like, as Max said, he had back-to-back, 60 point seasons close to a 30 goal guy in Winnipeg, forces his way out there to go to, you know, sunny and happy LA and plays poorly so poorly to the point where the Kings need to, Rob Blake, excuse me, feels the need to correct his mistake immediately. Like at that, like, that wasn't him being like, I need a fresh start. That was the Kings being like, oh, we made a mistake. So like the- That's the King saying we need a fresh start.

after one season. So that's what makes it interesting of like, you know, this is his third fresh start. This is just his fourth team. We should, is more accurate for me to say, right? Like he didn't, he force his way out of Columbus, his way out of the jets and then the Kings are like, never mind. We don't want to do this. But I think is interesting about this for the King's standpoint other than the fact that they

kind of correct that mistake is like Kemper. Kemper played so poorly that he lost the job to turn. Charlie Lingren, right? Paying a backup $5 million. A lot of the head to do is, I'll say a lot of that had to do with Charlie Lindgren. He was, he was really, he was really good, right? Yeah. So he was going to be their number one. They don't want to pay their backup goalie $5 million.

They see an opening for maybe Pierre-Luc Dubois will play well here in a top six position, right? And it's compelling for the Kings because Kemper theoretically gives them an upgrade and goal based on like the kings have just run through goalies

since um Jonathan Quick right Phoenix Copley Jonas Corpusallo Cam Talbot David Riddick like they needed to get somebody

I don't know if Kemper is going to be the guy but like they're going to try it out and like that that's what makes this compelling to me is because Kemper isn't known enough quantity that like maybe this could work out.

Like maybe it was just a bad year on a bad team for Darcy Kemper and they got him on, they got, like if this, if this ends up being the Kings get their, their number one goalie that they needed in exchange for dumping that Pierre Luke Dubois contract, that ends up being like really great and, and fun for,

for the LA Kings. On some level, on some level, yeah, but then they also have to watch Gabe Valardi be a first line winger in Winnipeg. Okay. So I just went back and looked, um,

through some of the Pierre Luke DuBois, articles that have been written. And I think Marat in Winnipeg did such a great job with this. This line is so great. As memory russes, Dubois's biggest gift to the Jets will become the list of players they got back for him. That is a guy who's had back-to-back 60-point, nearly 30-goal seasons. And the fond memories of him is what we got Gabe Bellardi for getting rid of that guy.

It's good job everybody What does well what I want to see is Rob Blake trade Darcy Kemper for something of even less value Just keep like reverse red paper reverse red paper clipping this where you take You know a whole bunch of yeah a whole bunch of real of nice assets I mean I you know here's what here's all say about that is if follow wasn't great last year like Rasmus Kapari, you know, he's still young. We'll see what happens.

But still, even if that ends up being Valardi for three years of 35-year-old Darcy Kemper, who is, or 34, 35, he's getting older. Also, he's kind of injured last year. That's something to watch too. Yeah, I'd be really scared of this contract just for the cliff factor. But if I could try to, like, project here, the Kings know that, they got one of the best defensive environments in the NHL. And if you're L.A. and you're thinking, like, hey, this guy had a bad year,

but his previous three or four, honestly just career says he's a good goalie. And we don't think he's hit the cliff yet. Then I think that they have the defensive environment that can nurture this guy back to being a solid goalie or at least another movable asset to Sean's point. I just, I don't love this contract either. it's just that the term is so much shorter and at least there's like the environment which I thought should have worked well for Dubois frankly too but the environment should work well for Darcy Kemper.

Yeah, I mean, he's also familiar with that environment too, right? He was a backup for Jonathan Quick in 2017-18. A 10-1 and 3 record and 932 say percentage that year in relief of Jonathan Quick. Big bit of career like rehab for him in in LA. Right. And then he goes on to be, you know, like good and goal like. for Colorado, right? So maybe this can be the kind of renaissance for Darcy Kemper.

It's a swap of two players coming off bad seasons who need to be better in 2024, 25. So I'm really excited to see how this works out. With a really compelling asterisk next to it, and that's what L.A. paid, what, you know, paid to the opportunity cost that they paid to bring them in the first place. I love it. I don't know how relevant those two teams are, but fun trade. Things are good.

Kings are relevant. Yes. You hate her. They're a playoff team. Yeah. Throw the gaps. Whatever. That's such a light on the Eastern Conference this season.

Metropolitan Division, baby. One other bit of news before we wrap up the show here, again, like this was a great news day for us. I really love when the NHL does things. So, like, my job is easier. I don't have to come up with, like, a topic or anything. creative. We can just talk about things that happened. The San Jose Sharks claimed Barkley-Gadrow off waivers from the New York Rangers on Wednesday. So now the Rangers are fully off the hook for Goodroo's contract, which has three years left at a $3.641 million

AAV. They put them on waivers, obviously, to gain some cap flexibility. So this outcome is kind of a win for the Rangers, obviously, because you get out from under that contract for the next three years, Rangers are in win now mode. They can use that money for like a serious upgrade at whatever position. But this is what made this interesting. This is from Larry Brooks from the New York Post. He reported last night that the San Jose sharks were on Barkley-Gadro's 15-team, no-trade list that Chris Jury, the general manager of the Rangers, got around

by putting him on waivers where San Jose was the first claim. Like, that's pretty ruthless by Chris Jury, who probably would have potentially could have tried to trade him to the Sharks, but they would have said no. And he ends up there anyways, because Jury's like, whatever, you're going on waivers where they're surely going to pick you up. What do you guys think about that?

I think it's really funny that Barclay Godreau had a 15-team, no trade clause. I like that quite a bit. What a world. Oh, well. Like, this is, it's cutthroat stuff from jury, but they're in a tough spot. We knew that this was coming. We saw some of the stuff he said at, it is season-ending presser after they got eliminated in the Eastern Conference final. Like, tough decisions were going to be made, right?

And yes, Godreau was pretty good in the playoffs, scored some goals for them. But tough to see a way forward for them in terms of meaningful change when you're paying guys like him as much as they were. got to crack some eggs if you want to make an omelet. You know what I first thought of is I wonder if other GMs are actually kind of mad about this because all it's going to do is reinforce players being like, nope, no trade's not enough. I need a no move. I saw what happened to the good road. Like one GM can get away with this like once a decade and then the players will go, you know,

nope, I can't do it. It's got to be a no mover. It's meaningless. You'll just do me like you did a dro. and then it resets a little bit until the next guy does it. I guess it's important to say too, like lower down in the story, Larry Brooks said that his 15 team,

no trade list, included teams in less than desirable locations, and San Jose would fit into that category. It's also like highly unclear if they even tried to trade him. So like it's kind of a spicy little thing, but it looks like they just waived Barkley-Gadrow to see if someone would claim him to get out from his deal, before the buyout window happened.

So like, is it a bit of a nothing burger? Maybe Peter Ball also said that Goodrow has a 15 team, no trade list, but it's unclear if San Jose was on that list, and that only would have mattered if the Rangers tried to trade him,

though the waiver system potentially worked or served as a workaround. So, yeah, had nobody claimed Goodrow, they probably could have bought him out when the window opened. So this is just... It's such a weird...

It's such a weird... It's such a weird collision of factors like at the right time or the guy's the wrong time. If you're Berkeley, Godreau, I suppose. Where if you're, if you're San Jose, you're just like, we need some NHL players and we need some salary. And, you know, like, fine. Well, like, sounds good. But don't you think what ends up happening here is they just like play them in the top six to protect Macklin Celebrini?

He rebound to the 40-point season. They retained $2 million and trade him again or $1.9 million or whatever. Yeah, he's going to. Markly Goddrow is going to play his way out of San Jose very quickly. You know, that's my... Someone won him for a playoff for sure. Especially I'm a cheaper cap. San Jose can just retain that money.

They're not using it for anything anytime soon. They can give him a good opportunity in the meantime. He can play a role. Like, I love it for San Jose, actually. I just feel a little bad for Goodro. Yeah, I mean, also, like, now that I'm, like, reading that, I'm kind of just like, well, is this like a ruthless move by Chris Jury or was it just smart to wave a guy to open up cap space.

Like I don't know if this was a like screw you. Maybe a little of both. I mean, he signed that contract. It should be said. Right. And he also didn't. Like history was a GM when Barkley Godreau signed that deal. There's no like reporting that suggests that they went to Barkley Godro and said, do you want to go to San Jose?

We have a trade on the table and he said no. So I feel like, I feel like I've been duped by this headline. I should have vetted this better. I'm sorry. Markle Gadro is mad that he's playing for the San Jose sharks. He hasn't said that. We shouldn't say that.

That's irresponsible. Okay. I won't say that. It wouldn't surprise me if this is happening because Barkley-Gadro is not thrilled that he's playing for the San Jose Sharks. Throw a dart and see what happens. Oh, interesting.

I get it now. Anything else, guys? Let's get some more trades. Yeah. I'm done talking about the cup final. I say after we spoke about it for a half an hour. Yeah, right. Oh, I don't really want to talk about this today.

Talks about it for the entire first segment. Interesting. Whatever. It was a good show, guys. Thanks. Max, anything you want to say? No, I think we said it all. Okay, great.

Well, then I'm going to end the show. That was really fire dynamic at the end there, guys. Thanks everyone for listening to The Athletic Hockey Show. I hate ending podcasts. I'm too awkward. I'm the problem. Yeah, clearly. Naming Max.

The Prospect Series with Max, Corey Scott, and Chris is back on Friday. It's the 2024 mock draft coming up on the Athletic Hockey Show. That's Friday. And then we're off for a bit with the draft and the July 4th holiday preempting us. The Athletic Hockey Show will continue all summer long. So I don't know when we're going to be back, but you can listen to everyone else if you care. Thanks, everyone.