The Athletic Hockey Show - Is Macklin Celebrini a Hart Trophy favorite?

Episode Date: January 8, 2026

After yet another impressive night from Macklin Celebrini, Hailey and Sean debate if it's time for the teenage phenomenon to be considered a Hart Trophy favourite? They welcome Peter Baugh to discuss the impact injuries to the Rangers Igor Shesterkin and Adam Fox and if it would benefit the blue shirts to step on the break, regroup and look towards next season? Plus Hailey forecasts the Canadian Women's Olympic roster which will be announced on Friday.Hosts: Hailey Salvian and Sean GentilleWith: Peter BaughExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Jeff DometWatch full episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowJoin our Discord Server: https://discord.gg/VTm9VjkFSubscribe to The Athletic: https://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. What's up, everyone? Welcome to The Athletic Hockey Show. It's Haley Salve and Sean Gentile here with you for another year of the podcast, 2026 version. Today we'll be joined by the athletics, Peter Baugh, to discuss the New York Rangers, facing some big injuries. Then we'll chat a bit about the Canadian women's hockey Olympic roster,

which is coming out on Friday afternoon. But first, Sean, happy new year. I think... This is like the cusp of being allowed to say that. It's the first time I've seen you since 2026 began. Yeah. Happy New Year. I'm allowed to say it.

No, we're past the Larry David deadline. I think that's January 3rd. We can't do it. The only person is allowed to say. That's way too tight. That's way too tight. That's crazy. You're outing yourself.

Mary David's just a grump who's like you get two days then leave me alone. Haley, you're outing yourself as a non-listener of the, American hockey show that Cussin's not used to do because that was... Well, that's why I said Happy New Year and asked the question because Craig was the, like, he was the arbiter of that. Oh, he was very strict. He was dragging, he was dragging. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, he was not strict.

He was dragging Happy New Year into, like, March. Yeah. January 21st, same, St. Patrick's Day and Craig's drop in Happy New Year's. But now I think we're... How do you've seen someone in 2026? I think we're past the Deadly. line. I hate to break it to you. Craig signed off with Happy New Year at the draft.

It says, it's very funny. All right. Kind of a light schedule last night in the NHL, just five games. Stars and Caps, a bit of a bust. Unless you're a Stars fan, and you like to see them beat up on

the Washington Capitals, then congrats to you. Yeah, if you're a Stars fan who is like, we need to not let this losing street go to seven games. I think we need to handle business tonight. Yeah, for everyone. also it was a bust. Yeah, I thought, a bust in the sense that I thought it would be a competitive, more competitive, close game.

Jordan Biddington allowed seven goals against the St. Louis Blues tried to pull him against the Blackhawks last night, but their backup goalie was like down the tunnel, didn't have time to run down, and Bittington finished the game. So seven spot on Jordan Bittington, Blues lose the Chicago Blackhawks, and all of that allowed us to really focus in on what truly matters. And that's Sharks Kings and Macklin Celebrini. Celebrity, Sean, had a three-point night and the Sharks win over the Kings.

He tied it with a minute and seven left. Then he set up the O.T. winner with a great play to put him and William Meckland on a two-on-one. All of a sudden, sharks are in a wildcard spot, Sean. Kind of fun. It's a nice thing to wake up in the morning here on the East Coast and have a Macklin-Cellibrini highlight pack waiting for you, baby.

That's part of the fun. That's part of the fun of having relevant teams playing 10 or 1030 starts in Eastern time, right? I've tried to watch as much as Celebrini as I can. I've said this before. The fact that he's around, the fact that Leo Carlson around is around is big. I just wasn't anticipating another, I guess, foolishly, it wasn't anticipating another Celebrini explosion last line because, man, he's been incredible. Just that sequence alone where he scores that sick goal to tie it with little more than a minute left and sets up Ackland for the game winner on a two-on-one a bit later, man. He's something else, and he's appointment television. I think Pete Blackburn said on Twitter yesterday that Macklin-Celliprene is changing bedtimes. I can't think of any better way to put it than that.

He's must-see television for people who care about the sport right now. there's something really fun about watching him kind of turn into a superstar in real time like Celebrini came in with the juice, he goes first overall, like we know that, so I'm not suggesting he hasn't been a star, but to just watch the ways in which he's able to keep dominating

and take over the league and he's on the Olympic team and I don't know, maybe I'm just an empath, but it's been very sweet to watch the Maclin Celebrini, like, fully legitimate, like, perhaps heart trophy candidate star turn in real time. He is on a 12-game point streak. And I should say, like, he's no longer just the, like, hey, maybe this kid could be better than Connor Bedard or, oh, him and Will Smith are really, like, funny and he's good and he's fun and sharks are fun. Like he's doing the thing in a meaningful way.

12 game point streak, three games away from tying Patrick Linae for the teenage record. He has 67 points and 43 games. He's at a 127 point pace. Are we seeing a legitimate heart trophy case from Macklin-Celebrini, Sean? Like how, you know what? Absolutely. Absolutely. Because we are.

How high is he on your heart trophy list? two. I got him at two. We'll go into the rationale there in a second. But I do want to, this always needs to be reinforced, I think, I think, with Celebrating. Year two is when it happens. That's when it happens for the guys, the capital G guys. That's when it happened for Crosby, Art Ross, MVP. That's when it happened for McDavid,

Art Ross MVP. And what we're seeing from Celebrini, you know, halfway through the season is that he's in contention for an Art Ross and an MVP. That's the line. That's the line between super mega, ultra elite talents like Crosby

and McDavid and McDavid and everyone else. And there is a bunch of... I think my point, what I meant was like he didn't come into the league with the Crosby McDavid juice, which is what makes this, like,

superstar turn even more compelling. And I don't know if it was just, like, the generational talent fatigue, but I don't think people were talking about him quite the same. Yeah. So that's what's made it more fun to be, like, oh, like he's doing the thing. And we're watching the tide shift.

Sorry to cut you off. But, like, yeah, Crosby and McDavid did it in year two, but, like, they came in with different billing. So there's something almost more rewarding and, like, fun to watch Celebrini do it. The point is, like, this is what a generational player looks like. This is how a generational player looks like in year two. He doesn't look like Connor Bedard. He doesn't look like Nico Heeshire or whatever.

It certainly doesn't look like Alexis Lafranier or whatever. Go back through all the number one picks. Like, in Haley, I think you nailed it. It's generational player, air quotes, fatigue. Like, we've used that. term so much over the years that we, I think, to some extent, forgot what it looks like when one actually rolls along. And that's who this dude is. It was McDavid before him. And before that, it was Crosby. And the dividing line is that when those guys are in their second NHL season,

they're doing stuff like the stuff we've seen him do last night and for months going back. So it's fun. I think it is like it is a helpful reminder. And yeah, he maybe didn't come in with a degree of hype that we saw from Crosby and McDavid. It was a tick below that. But everything he's getting now is is is completely deserved because my man is still a teenager. It is incredible. But yeah, and he asked about that he's second. He's second. He's, I still have him like a hair behind Connor, but behind Nathan McKinnon. But I think he's too, probably pretty decisively. And he's certainly the number two forward on my personal ballot. So our friend Dom Lus Chishin had his awards watch come out yesterday.

And he said it's a two-man race between McDavid and McKinnon. But Celebrini is the most intriguing name on the list. He had him a little bit lower. But when we're talking about who's most valuable to their team, Celebrini really rises up the ranks. He's the shark's best player by a mile. Will Smith is second on the team in points. I think nine points behind or nine goals behind Sellebrini.

That gap is the largest of any of the other Hart Trophy candidates that we're talking about. And McKinnon would be the next closest. But the guy behind him is, you know, also on the Hart Trophy candidate list. So if we're looking at like the most valuable player to a team, I think right now it's Macklin Celebrini. Yes, Nathan McKinnon is like otherworld. at five on five. He's the engine for the Colorado Avalanche. Like I would have no problem voting Nathan McKinnon.

I would have no problem if he wins the heart trophy. But if the sharks can stay in the hunt, if they can stay in a playoff spot, I don't think there's any denying that Macklin Celebrini is the reason why that team is playing relevant hockey right now. And that's what makes him maybe a more intriguing or more fitting, like truly MVP candidate right now. the reason that I'm still team McKinnon here is is Celebrini the most valuable to

CMA did like absolutely like we're not we're not we're not we're not gonna debate that here I don't think that being said I think this is an important stat since December 1st the sharks are scoring 1.52 more goals per 60 with Celebrity on the ice that's incredible right Colorado is scoring 1.53 more with McKinnon on the ice So if you want to just break it down strictly into those terms, how much better is a team when a player is on the ice versus the alternative? Those guys are, those guys are neck and neck. And I think people are quick to just assume that Celebrini is miles and miles and miles better of everyone else on that team, which is true. But I think there is a certain degree of, I think McKinnon gets dinged there unfairly. Now, we can have the Kail McCarrar discussion. at some point down the line. But I think there is a whole bunch of evidence over the last few years that at least as relates to those two, McKinnon, you know, is, is engine one versus versus McCar being,

being engine two. So I think the gap in terms of, and it's nebulous, but the gap in terms of value to your individual team and improvement over, over the other players, I think it's probably a little bit closer, you know, than, then, then people are, are accounting for at this point. But I'm not dinging, I'm not dinging McKinnon for that. He has the next largest gap between teammates. I think people, I, I, yeah, I know, I know you're not, I, I know you're not. I think people are going to.

And I, I, I think that people are going to read into what I said that I, that I, that I am, and I'm not. Like, they are one and two in terms of the scoring gap. And that's always kind of been, like when McKinnon has been a heart trophy candidate, he's been for a long time. but that's always kind of been the debate and the biggest thing for Nathan McKinnon is like look at what he's doing compared to everyone else. There's just something about a 19-year-old doing that and willing a team that was the worst hockey team,

you know, in the league two years ago before he entered. Like there's just something and maybe that's narrative spin and maybe that's the whole like I'm an empath and Will's like. That's allowed. Like there's just something. That's allowed. this 19 year old, literally carrying this team into a playoff spot with 0.01, like, differentiation point between him and McKinnon in terms of goals per 60 on ice.

Like, when you read that stat, I'm like, that speaks more to Celebrini to me right now than McKinnon because, like, McKinnon, and that's unfair to Nathan McKinnon, it should be more about, like, wow, the longevity that he's been able to be the most important. packable player on the ice is great, but then to me, I'm like, there's a teenager keeping up with Nathan McKinnon. You know, I see that. And the narrative spin for me is like, oh, then that is more of a case for Celebrini to me because Nate's been there, done that. Like, unfortunately, I wonder if we're getting to like- He's neck-and-neck with Nathan McKinnon. Right. That is more to me of like, wow. I agree. Even though we just said he's this generational

talent. But there's just some, again, watching it all happen has been pretty incredible. here's what I'll say about awards voting in general, I think. We've made enormous strides the hockey media has in a lot of ways, in a lot of important ways. I think the discourse around the Norris Trophy is a zillion times better than it was five, ten years ago. I've watched it happen.

We're in a better spot. The discourse around the Selky Trophy is a zillion times better than it was five or ten or fifteen years ago. go, I've watched it happen. I'm okay if there's a tie when we're talking about the heart trophy

or if the gap is relatively slim, that you go with the better story. And to me, I think that Celebrini this year. So all things being equal, if McKinnon finishes with a couple more points and the underlines are maybe a little bit better,

I think I'll probably end up voting for Mackin-Cellibrini. And I think a lot of other people will too because that is how human brains work. We apply narratives, the things. We appreciate the stories and the human beings that are involved with this kind of thing. And also there's voter fatigue to consider, too. People get taught.

We've seen it in sports year after year across sports. People get tired of voting for the same guys. Otherwise, Shaquille O'Neill would have won five straight MPs in the 90s. But McKinnon still only has one heart. trophy. So to have voter fatigue on a guy who's like lost a bunch of times maybe when he shouldn't have like that's when I just say this big piece about Celebrini, I'm like, oh, but

McKinan only has one and like he needs more than that like the best player of his generation. Like I shouldn't only have one heart trophy. And there shouldn't be voter fatigue on Nathan McKinnon already even though I just said like, oh, celebrini's nicer. Like we're having this conversation in real time and being like this is the stuff that happens and this is how guys lose out on major trophies. Because you have 30-year-old women being like, he's so sweet. I'm just kidding.

That wouldn't be in my ballot, please. Yeah, right. He's so nice. Delete that. Delete that. The main takeaway, and my main point from all of this, is that there needs to be more daylight between Nathan McKinnon and Macklin Celebrini if Nathan McKinnon wants to lock this down because what what celebrini is doing is so compelling on a human level

on a historic level on a narrative level that people are going to fill in those gaps and I don't think they're going to be wrong to yeah um dom does have mckenon leading the way in the heart race and by quite a significant margin in terms of his overall rating offensive rating defensive rating, it's better than McDavid, Macar, etc, etc. But yeah, Celebrini's more intriguing, and that's going to end up swinging some boats. I think it's also worth mentioning before we move on that Dom has Maureate Cider challenging Cal McCar for the Norris right now,

just given the degree of difficulty that Cider faces combined with his defensive presence for the Red Wings. Like he's a real difference maker for that team. We don't have to talk about that now. Unfortunately, we don't have time. But maybe we can force our pal Max Bultman to join us to talk about it. he could talk about it on his Monday show if he wants, but I'd rather talk to my friend Max,

so maybe we'll try to bring him in here to get a little bit more on Cider. I got all the time in the world that's talk more insider because he's, it's so fun to watch a player hit his potential. And I think that's, I think that's what we're seeing there.

He is the player that people, you know, argue that he could be for the last bunch of years. So I love it. Like, it's compelling as hell. Do I want to talk to Max about that? I guess we'll wait and see.

That's, that's a little bit less of us. lamp dunk, but yeah. Could be nice. Shout out to more insider. He's pretty good. Shout out to Max. He's fine.

All right, let's take a break. Peter Bob's much better than Max Polkman, joins us next on the Athletic Cocker Show. The New York Rangers have won just for their last 10 games where Delta a pair of injury blows on Tuesday as Adam Fox will go on LTIR and Igor Shestirken was put on IR. Here to break it all down is our Rangers slash New York, New Jersey, tri-state area reporter Peter Baugh. What's up, dude?

Did I get the title correct? Close enough. New York guy, Peter. I don't know if tri-state area snuck into that one. I don't know if that's on the official paperwork for Pete. Well, I don't fully have, it's close enough to whatever my job title is. So that works for me. He lives in New York.

He writes about the Rangers and among other things. Yeah, New York area hockey writer. Perfect. All right, we can start with Shasturkin right away. I think that's the big news for the Rangers, even though there's a ton we can get into here with you. Their number one goalie goes down against the Utah Mammoth. That is probably the player the Rangers can least afford to lose.

And yes, we're talking about that within the context of Adam Fox going on LTIR as well. Peter, just how devastating is this to a team that's already been struggling this season? Yeah, I mean, Igor Shasturkin has had, I think, by his standards, an okay season. And yet he's one of the four best goalies in the league and goals saved above expected. He has a 9-13 save percentage. He's been really, really good. This is a high-level goalie. And someone, like you said, the Rangers just can't afford to lose.

I think if it's a shorter period of time, you can get by with Jonathan Quick if you're fully healthy in other areas maybe, but the Rainers aren't even fully healthy in other areas. They're going to have to really lean on a 39-year-old goalie for however long this stretch is. And the injury looked bad in real time. I mean, he wasn't putting any weight on that left leg. It looked like there wasn't much contact with the leg itself. I think the Rangers have kind of been vague on the updates. They put him on injured reserve rather than long-term injured reserve.

when I talked to Mike Sullivan in his media press conference yesterday, he didn't offer much more of a timeline beyond that. So it's unclear. It could be medium term. It could be longer. It's just really unclear. They haven't given a firm thing. But it's certainly a player that this team can't afford to lose and is going to make a really pivotal month much more difficult. Because the Readers are in a spot right now where if they want to make the playoffs, they can't just tread water anymore. They have to start winning games. They're in the bottom of the east and point percentage. So it's a pretty precarious position. Yeah, Pete, I was, I'm not dumb enough to ask if there's a timeline on Chasturkin, but is there a timeline on the timeline? Like,

is there any clarity at all? Like, like, is there, are there, do we know if there's tests that need to be done or like, it? It did. You said it. It looked, it looked bad. Yeah. needed help on the ice and off the ice. And that's always, that's always a terrible sign. So I'm not, I mean, the Rangers, like all NHL teams are somewhat vague on injuries. NHL teams don't love transparency with all of that. Mike Sullivan being vague on injury updates, no, no, no, I've never heard of such things. And while in the Rangers in particular, they love their, they love their, he's still being evaluated week to week, day to day.

You know, all the generic lower body, upper body. But I think we'll just have to wait and see. I mean, we'll keep asking, and hopefully we get more of a sense in the coming days. But certainly didn't look good. And if it's any amount of extended time, it's an issue. I think that's kind of the upshot for me too. And you kind of led into saying this. It almost doesn't matter if it's two weeks or two months or.

or whatever it is, they don't have enough time, they don't have time to waste, right? And any protracted absence from Chesterkin is a disaster because they are, yes, they're three points out of a playoff spot, right? But they're blocked by five teams who've all played fewer games than them. They're, you know, points percentage. They're at the bottom of the conference, right? So there's no time to waste.

So in some sense, yeah, the timeline question is almost irrelevant because it's like we know that he's, going to be on he's on injured reserve that means he's going to miss time and they can't afford him to miss you know any and any chunks like that well and it's not just it's not just him you mentioned the adam fox injury too when you said igor's probably their most important player it's either igor or adam fox and now they're both out for um it seems like at least a little bit and and foxes had a really a really i think strong season um the i guess bill garren might might disagree with that, but he, uh, he's, he's been really good for the Rangers and, um, I think a

huge loss. We saw he missed about a month earlier this year with a shoulder injury. And he, in that stretch, the Rangers kind of, like, uh, they tried at water. They did okay. I think they were maybe one game over 500 during that stretch. But you saw all the underlying numbers dip a little bit. And Igor played really well in that stretch. So if, if it was a lot of it, it's a prolonged fox absence without Igor kind of covering up some of the mistakes. It's a recipe for a tough stretch here. How does this all play into the trade deadline, you know, agenda or what the Rangers end up doing? I saw our colleague Vince had a story about how they're, you know, maybe looking at a

key for sure wood acquisition, but also do you really want to be adding at the deadline when injuries like this are affecting the equation. I'm just curious how the Shostirk an injury, but his injury along with Adam Fox maybe changes the way you're looking at what the Rangers should be doing come the trade deadline. And, you know, really should this be a team that's selling at that time and looking down a reality that's coming a lot more quickly, which is that they're not going to be in the playoffs or competitive in the postseason this year? It's an interesting question because these were already things that we were starting to ask,

even before the injuries, because they're low in the standing. They have a lot of teams to jump. They're not playing great. Even when they're fully healthy, is it really a team that can contend? So we were kind of starting to already pose these questions. And everything I heard from talking to people was that they're going to take their time. They have, and it's true, like they don't have to make a decision right now. they can wait and see how the next month goes and decide from there.

And my sense is that's still going to be their approach. But I think this gives us a bit more of a sense of how this next month is going to go. Maybe Jonathan Quick turns back the clock and is able to play consistently, which he's been awesome this year, to be clear. He's been a really good goalie in a number two role. I wonder about a guy who's 39 years old. How is he going to play if he's carrying a start? workload. That's a lot to ask of someone of his age, even though he is one of the greatest

goalies of his generation. So I think that this will crystallize a little more over the next month heading into the Olympic break. But if you ask me, like this, the only ads the Rangers should be making right now are ads that can benefit them beyond this year. So maybe they maybe they look at Kiefer Sherwood as someone who they can add and who will bring some middle six scoring beyond this year if they're if they're able to work out an extension. But that's the only way a trade like that really makes sense for me. And with someone like Sherwood, who I think is a good player, it's a bit of a risky proposition because I believe the shooting percentage is really high this year. And it feels like a candidate for regression. And he's a good

player, but I don't know if he's a 34 goal score or whatever he's on pace for. So we'll see how that plays out. My sense is there's a lot of teams in on Sherwood. I think the asking price is really high, as it should be for Vancouver. I mean, they don't need to be in any rush to trade him right now. But I think that, yeah, as we get as this month keeps going, I mean, you've got to evaluate a lot of options, including selling. the Sherwood possibility is wild because that's the exact that's I mean I and I get it their situation has changed pretty dramatically over the last two days or two weeks but that's a player who's pure rental right like he's a pending UFA shooting 17 percent like god bless him

he's actually a pretty good shooter like he's like historically over his career he's you know pretty pretty well into into double digits there but he is riding some kind of hot streak he's 30 years old and he's going to cost a lot. You're talking first round pick plus because partially of how few, you know, relevant players, it seems like there's going to be on the block for the next, over the next two months. So the fact that they're connected with him in any real way is just, is just wild to me. If you want to overpay for Kiefer Sherwood, if you're, if you're the Rangers and think that you're a Kiefer Sherwood away from being a playoff relevant team again, and then just sign him in the offseason,

overpay them there. Don't send assets back to Vancouver for the right to overpay him for the next five years or however long as contracts can it be. That just is tough to parse logically on their end of things. Well, I think the one thing that they maybe will have to consider when looking at whether it Sherwood or some other pending UFA is if this is the best chance to extend someone.

If this is like they've kind of saved a bunch of their cap space for this summer. They really, they have, I mean, they're going to have well over 20 million in cap space this summer. So if they don't think that guys are getting to market, maybe you do have to trade just to make sure that you have the chance to to, as you said. That's that's crazy. That's like that like, that's a recipe. That's a recipe for mediocrity. That should, that should terrify Rangers fans to, to hear. the mindset that

would lead them to theoretically trading for key for sure would and then extending him like straight away is just nuts well to me it doesn't make sense unless you're going to extend him what does that do for you in the short term it's not it's not the difference and so

I guess I'm just not foaming at the mouth he's 30 and has scored double digit goals three times like I'm not I'm not looking at him as the final piece for any team let alone one that's got as many obvious issues as they do with scoring goals, because this is a team that's second from the bottom and in five-on-five scoring, too. I don't know. I'm personally, I'm blaming you for this, Pete, obviously. What do you think, Haley? What are your key for sure with thoughts?

I feel like I lean more in the Sean camp of, like, if I'm a Rangers fan and I'm hearing, and I'm watching this season and their second worst points percentage in the conference, and I'm trying to to get excited about a key for sure would being a long and short term solution i'm pretty disappointed i think i'm a rangers fan i want to see them do a little bit more if they're going to go and do something at the deadline because you want to go out and you want to win you're saying like it's not a lost season then you need to do something more than that um and then on the other side i would say it's a lost season we have an aging core it's been a couple of years now of talking about this chaos and what are we going to do and should we buy, should we sell, I would either want to see

them go out and do something big or go out and start accepting the fact that you probably need to retool a little bit. Nothing about trading for Kiefer Sherwood would excite me as a Rangers fan. And the reality is there's not a whole lot of big things they can do out there unless some superstar decides they want out of their current situation that we're not aware of, which probably won't happen because all of these teams are in the playoff hunt. There aren't many teams that are purely out of it. Everyone can convince themselves there in this. So, I mean, you heard like the Rangers were interested in Quinn Hughes and all of that, but it didn't ultimately have the package to trade for him. You know, it's a really tough situation. And that leads to,

I mean, you guys talked about them at the deadline. They've got Artemmy Panarin, who's a pending free agent, who an extension hasn't come together with yet. They have Carson Sussi, who is, I think, like, perpetually in kind of trade conversations from year to year because he's a decent enough depth defenseman who's on short-term deals. And you've got, I don't know, there's a lot of, there's not a lot of pending UFAs, but there are a few that I think would be intriguing and would bring back returns. And I think the Rangers have to, maybe they can be patient, they can wait and see. how the next month goes, but they're going to have to start looking at some of those.

Peter, one thing we were going to ask to, obviously the Adam Fox injury is a storyline, and we've discussed that. It's not super newsy because it's been about a week now, but Adam Fox was also one of the biggest Olympic snubs. You mentioned Bill Garan. Maybe Bill Garan doesn't think Adam Fox is having a great season. Do you see a world in which that snub affects his relationship with rangers management or does it seem like fox is kind of in the camp of like this is bill garren's fault it's a it's a good question because bill garin does make the the ultimate decision and i heard that uh sullivan drury chris drury's also on on sullivan's or on uh on garen's staff um i think this was a a garrant decision from what i've heard um

I think that even if it ultimately was that, I can see how a player would be like, well, my head coach and GM was part of this decision-making crew, even if the buck didn't stop with them. It maybe could lead you to wonder, like, how much they were pushing, like, how aggressive was the push to get him on the roster or whatnot. So all I can say is when I asked Adam Fox about it, he said he was like, yeah, it's fine. Like I'm focused on winning games for the Rangers right now. Like my focus hasn't changed in that regard. So he's a professional. Like he's one of the more mature players on the team. And his play certainly hasn't taken a dip with since the Olympic announcement.

It was only a few games, but he's played pretty well. But it's an interesting question because that is a longer term. I mean, if that relationship deteriorates, that's a big issue for the Rangers. And I think they've, Mike Sullivan said he's had a number of conversations with Fox throughout this. He didn't want to get into those. Fox didn't want to get into those. But I would imagine the team had to work pretty hard to try and smooth that over. Well, I think Garron's reputation precedes him a little bit there too, right?

It helps to know Bill Guerin publicly in the way that we know Bill Garland. Like all the stuff he said post roster announcement, I was like, okay, this is me. This is my, like I get it. It's my decision. If it's, if it's dumb, it's dumb. And I'm paraphrasing there. But that's basically what he said, right?

So the fact that that guy in particular is at the top of the food chain when it comes with the roster decisions, like that gives everybody involved some cushion and some plausible deniability if you're if you're a jury or Sullivan you're like all right this look at like Jason Robertson's not here either and he's and he's and Garen's wearing that one as well like I think the personality

at the top of the pyramid kind of helps theoretically it should it should help keep things pretty smooth between the Rangers contingent there I would think so but I'm sure there's still I mean it's it's hard not to I mean I feel bad for Fox

I mean he was clearly like very very disappointed when he was talking about it for the first time. And it is a decision that, look, I know if I look at the Four Nations and clearly Garin and Sullivan, they really liked the team they have. They brought back all but Fox and Chris Kreider and then added a few more more players. But I, I can't help but wonder if they're putting a little too much stock in a really small sample size. That was four games. I think that's a good thing. wonder. Yes, I am wondering the same thing, in fact. Yeah, it's, it's, I mean, it's, I understand if Fox, I think there is an arrangement because of how much value Fox brings on the power play and because

they have Hughes and Werenski. I think there's a world that you could pose where maybe he's not in the top six at the Olympics. But when I look at eight U.S. defensemen, I can't find eight better U.S. defensemen than Fox. And I think his versatility is. is a strength in a depth role because he can play if Werenzky or Hughes gets hurt. He can play on the power play. He takes tough defensive matchups for the Rangers and does a good job with them. So I know he had a bit of a rough time at the Four Nations, but he's not the only one. Like Noah Hanifan didn't jump off those.

They lost. Like, they lost. You know, like there was more things that went wrong that Adam Fox not looking great. And also, yeah, he's not the best American. defender on the planet and he's not the top power play quarterback anymore. But like, as you said, Peter, to suggest that Adam Fox is not a top eight defender in the United States is a joke and it's a big brain. Play him and shelter.

Like have him, have him as a guy in international minutes you treat as the classic third pair like potential power play specialist, right? Like play him in sheltered minutes, roll him out there with the power play as needed and and bench him, you know, if you have to. The fact that that's not the logic they use is just wild. I mean, it's a mood point now because he's not going to play in a game until January 31st at the earliest because he's hurt. So it's just a bummer of a situation all around.

A final thing for you, Peter, like on all that, J.T. Miller's expected to return against the Buffalo Sabres tonight. Thoughts? Yeah. Yay. They need, they need something like they haven't been playing well lately. I think one of the interesting things is the amount of games. I don't have the exact number in front of me,

but so many of their wins over the past month or whatever have been in overtime. Like they're not winning in regulation. They're having to kind of, even when they do win, it's often in exciting fashion because overtime is fun, but it's not in convincing fashion. And that has to be a concern for the Rangers. I think goal differential has to be something that you look at as, as all right, maybe, maybe we're hanging in there, but it's not, it's not exactly screaming

powerhouse by any means. So a lot of big decisions had. I will ask you guys, if you were, if you were running the Rangers, like, say they start to sell off, say they move on Panarin, say they trade Susie. Would you look at any of the players who are under longer term contract? would you look at a Vincent Trochev or someone like that and see if yeah trade trade whoever you can if you start trading Panarin outside of Fox and just Turk and I would I would trade trade whatever is not nailed down because then it because then it's just like I love I love Vince Trocheck Pittsburgh hockey legend he's gonna turn 33 at some point in the next few months like I think the clock the clock starts as soon as you as soon as you move on from Panarin that to me is

like the Rubicon moment for them. So we'll see. It's going to be, it's going to be fascinating. They're a mess. Yeah, Trocheque for me is an interesting one because I think he would have so much value on the market. We've seen, we've seen what centers get. We saw Brock Nelson last year around the same age without term. Like Trochecich. Olympian, Vince Trochecich, yes. You can, you can say that. and Vince Trochek comes with term. So I, yeah, if they're going to, I look at this team as one that needs to get younger. They have J.T. Miller, who's 32, Trochuk is 32, Mika Zabanajed, is 32, Panarin's 34, Gavrikov's 30, Shisternkin's 30. Like, they're all edging into a certain territory. And especially some of those forwards, you have to wonder if their best hockey is

behind them. And so maybe you start to flip the page. But I don't, don't think this is a team that's in any, I don't know, I don't know if James Dolan's going to be sending out another letter anytime soon saying they're going to rebuild. Like, that's not really the, as long as you have Adam Fox and Igor Shostirkin, you're not going to be in a full-on rebuild. They're both too good for the Rangers to be too bad. The trick is going to be to how to fill out the rest of the roster and build something more competitive with longevity around them. So we'll see if the Rangers can do that. Pete, we've got a jet. Thanks for doing this. Hey, the WHL is going to play at Madison's Square Garden, by the way.

Maybe I'll see you there in April. Oh. Just announced. I would love that. Just announced you can read more on Theathletic.com. First women's pro hockey game with fans at the Garden. And MSG. Well, maybe I should get a credential and we can cover it together.

No, no, no. Go as a spectator. Enjoy yourself. Take the night off. Let Haley handle the business. Well, as long as I get to say hi to Haley, then I'll be fun. I'll hop down and say hi to the to the fans. I'm sure that's what they're all there for.

Not Hillary Knight. Yeah. We'll be clamoring. All right. Thanks so much, dude. We're going to take one more break here and we'll be back for the final segment of the athletic hockey show. We're going to talk a little bit more about the Team Canada women's hockey roster that's coming out on Friday. We'll tee that up coming up next.

All right. We've had enough time talking about the Canadian and the American men's. Olympic hockey rosters. The U.S. Women's Hockey roster came out as well, but we've been waiting anxiously for the Canadian women's Olympic roster. They, by the way, won the 2022 Olympics. So this roster will be defending that title. I'll be at the announcement. The team's being announced on Friday at 3.30 Eastern. Sean, what do you want to know about Team Canada? I'm going to throat to you to ask me a question as like a hockey fan. What do you want to know about Team Canada? And I'll try to answer that question. As a Canadian women's hockey fan, what do you want

to know, Sean Gentilly? Yeah, right. Thank you. I was waiting for that. I just feel like the roster has been pretty static for the last couple years. Obviously, we know that Mariefully plan is going to be at the top. We know that N or NAAABN is going to be the goaltender. And we know that we're not of, you know, like we know what the top of this roster is going to look like. I feel like we also, to some extent, know what the middle and bottom of it is going to look like as well. There hasn't been a ton of change. So I'm wondering if there's going to be any kind of meaningful shuffling throughout, even relative to what we saw at Worlds. So I think, obviously, that's the big question that I'm trying to suss out. And honestly,

like, I've been a little bit torn between, like, could we see major, changes from Team Canada after the rivalry series loss. Like there was a, they lost, you know, a 10, there was a 10 goal game. They were outscored. I think it was like 24 to 7, you know, it was a really bad sweep at rivalry series. Team USA also won the last world championships. They're on a five or six game win streak against Team Canada right now. So, yeah, that's the question.

Is the Canadian brain trust going to take that and say, we need to make some big changes. And I think we could see some around the edges, but I just don't see a world in which team Canada is going to rebuild its roster or make meaningful changes at the top of the lineup this close to an Olympic year. The blue line has struggled.

And there's this kind of back and forth in my mind internally of like, do you switch it up completely or do you just try to go back to what you know and hope they figure it out. Because like, is adding new players who might not know your system or might not be ready for the Olympics actually the way to win the Olympics? Or do you just hope that the players who've been there and done that figure it out?

And I've been leaning to the ladder. That said, I do think we'll see some first time Olympians. Like, I've had Sophie Jakes written in my roster. If she hasn't done enough to be there, I don't totally know what they're looking for. just one of the best offensive defenders in the PWHL. She was one of the few bright spots in one of the big rivalry series losses. So Sophie Jakes is someone to me that I could see making a jump. Darryl Watts is someone who's going to make the jump to make the Olympic team too.

And that's something where I challenge people who say, like, we need change, we need new face. Like, well, we have had them. Like, Darryl Watts made her first national team a year ago. Sophie Jakes made her first national team a year ago. Team Canada has been moving new pieces in. It's just when we're talking about the young college kids to go up against Team USA's young college kids, like Caitlin Kramer, Chloe Primerano.

They haven't necessarily been productive, even though there's a good chance Chloe Pramano's on the Olympic roster. I would like to see Caitlin Kramer on the Olympic roster, but I don't know if they've done enough to beat out someone like a Natalie Spooner or a Jocelyn LaRocque to get those final spots. Yeah, you mentioned Watson Premarano. I was just going to ask a couple follow-ups about both of those players.

I think Daryl Watts has been really one of the best players in the P-dub since the league started, right? Like she's been a player who's used the opportunity that she's gotten, playing with Ottawa and then, and now with Toronto to really put herself not just on the fringe of the roster, conversation, obviously. She was, she was at Worlds. I mean, she looks like, you know, a high-end piece. And I think the fact that she's, you know, pushed her way up, I think, in the food chain is, is really interesting. Because this is a player who was on the outside looking in for several years as it related to the, as related to the national team. And she's, you know, kind of made her case undeniable over the last two plus seasons in the P-dub. I think that's

fascinating, you know, in terms of big picture stuff. Because this is an opportunity that for a player like her five years ago wouldn't have existed. Yeah, I mean, I don't know if everyone knows this, but it's like something that I always bring up when I'm talking about Daryl Watts. Only Mary Philippe Poulin, the best player on the planet, has more points than Darylats in the PWA Chal since the league started. Yeah, crazy. And she is going to likely be the left winger beside Poulin and Laura Stacey

who make up, you know, two-thirds of the top. line in Montreal. Part of me really, I feel like they ran out of time. I would have loved to see Abby Rock just get a Canadian passport because that line's been really good in Montreal. Just switch it up. Yeah. Yeah. Goh cut you. No, no allegiances. Come on over. Abby Rock. You are now a Canadian national team member, but yeah. I feel like Phuland could maybe pull some strings with the, with the Canadian government to issue, to issue a passport to her line mate. I feel like. I feel like. I feel like. I feel like, She's got some sway.

She can make that happen. Yeah. Yeah. Would have been cool. But I think Daryl Watts has gone from, like over two Olympic cycles has gone from, you know, what does this girl have to do to make it? And like, retiring post college because she was like, I'm just going to get a job. Like one of the best most electric college players. He's 26 years old, by the way, still.

She's still so young. That's what I'm saying when people talk about like Canada. We need youth or we need new faces. is like, we do have them. They just don't look like Caroline Harvey and Abby Murphy. And, like, some of that is just the American, the young American player pool is better. Like, it's okay to admit that. Are there issues?

Like, is there a problem with Canada not having, like, a KK Harvey or an Abby Murphy and a Laila Edwards and a Curson Sims coming up through the ranks? Like, sure. That's more of a developmental question. That's more of, like, a big picture. what's going on in Canadian hockey question, not so much, why is Troy Ryan not taking Canada's KK Harvey? She doesn't exist yet.

She doesn't exist. It might be Chloe Primerano. It's fine by me. It's fine by me. It might be Chloe Primerano. She is going to end, I believe that Chloe will end up being Canada's answer to KK, but she hasn't been able to produce and dominate

from the offensive blue line the way that Harvey has at the international level. And that's okay because she's a child. You know, like Caroline Harvey made the Olympic team in 20, 22 and didn't touch the ice in the gold medal game for more than 10 seconds. And now look at her. She's one of the best players in the world. So will Chloe be on the team? Maybe if she's there, she's going to dominate?

Probably not. But in four years, Canada's going to be okay. So that's kind of where I'm at is. Canada's going to inject some young players. I knew faces. Darrell Watts will certainly be one of them. I think we could see a Julia Gosling on this roster. She's been on Team Canada, but she hasn't made an Olympic team.

she's looked great for the Seattle Torrent and the PWHL. I think Sophie Jake should be on this team. So yeah, I think there'll be some good young, newer players, but I'm still a little torn on like, do you bring Natalie Spooner? What's going on with Sarah Nurse? She's injured. She hasn't played.

To me, I'm bringing Sarah Nurse to the Olympics because the last Olympics she was injured and then she came in and set an Olympic record and scoring. So unless it's the first day of the tournament and she's on crutches or in a cast or whatever, I'm bringing Sarah Nurse to the Olympics. So I think we'll see a lot of returning players and that's okay because this team won the last gold medal. And I always try to remind people, like the American team is younger and faster and that's worked out well. But they had to rebuild because they lost three straight major international tournaments to Canada.

And Canada has not yet been in that position. That's my scene. And scene. Yes. There might be in that position now, which sucks. That was a lot of information to take in. Okay. The timing might stink.

The timing might stink. Like, ooh, now maybe we aren't looking as good. But that's fine. It's an issue for 2030. Sorry, I zoned out and bought a Caroline Harvey jersey while you were talking about that. I'm going to keep it real simple. It's not bad. She's unreal.

Don't overthink it. I'm surprised you didn't go for Abby Murphy. I thought she was your favorite player. I already have one. That's fair. Fair enough. Caroline Harvey, by the way, leads all players in scoring in the NCAA. She's a defender again.

I should remind you. She's sick. She'd probably win to Patty Kaz. All right. I guess we'll tee up the men's hockey for the day on Thursday. 12. Yes. We're going to have more than enough of that.

We don't need to. I'm not going to talk. I thought you're talking about the Olympics roster. I'm like, I don't. Oh my God, no. I'm just going to tell everyone that there's 12 NHL games on tap tonight if you care. Unlike, but you can also just sit at home and put out cookies for the Poulin Ferry and hope for big things for Team Canada's women's Olympic roster.

I guess you should put out cookies for like Troy and Gina, not boo. Yeah. It's fine. It didn't work. Thanks everyone for listening. What would you, would you put it? cookies for Santa. You put out cookies for Santa. You put out teeth for the tooth fairy. You don't put out any for Marie-Filippe-Plan or Trin. I don't know. You lost me on the analogy. Let's just go. Let's go. Let's go. Wishing for good ju-ju. It's a stretch. Yeah, it didn't. It didn't work. It's fine. Thanks everyone for listening to the show, though. I hope you made it this far. You did. I don't want to hear any critiques about that.

Max Laz and Jesse have the next show on Monday. Sean and I return on Thursday. Maybe we'll bring Max along or just Dom. Should probably talk to Dom at some point. Bye. You never reply. Bye.