The Athletic Hockey Show - Is McKenna or Stenberg the NHL Draft’s best winger?

Episode Date: May 22, 2026

Since the Toronto Maple Leafs grabbed the No. 1 pick in the NHL Draft, the conversation has mostly been about Gavin McKenna going first overall. Still, another winger named Ivar Stenberg is in the mix at the very top. Today, the guys compare McKenna and Stenberg and discuss if there’s a realistic case for the Leafs to take the Swede over the Canadian with the top pick. Plus, a deep dive into the draft’s center class, headlined by Caleb Malhotra and a quick Men’s World Championship prospect check-in and Memorial Cup picks to close things out. Hosts: Max Bultman, Corey Pronman, and Scott WheelerWith: FloHockey’s Chris PetersExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Chris FlanneryWatch full episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowJoin our Discord Server: https://discord.gg/VTm9VjkFSubscribe to The Athletic: https://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Hey, everybody, Max Boltman here alongside the athletics, Corey Promin and Scott Wheeler and Flohockey's Chris Peters for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. A ton to get to today. Scott and Corey had a new two-round mockout. Center class deep dive we got coming on tap today. World Championship updates. Memorial Cup preview. But I want to start, Corey, with an article that you had come out on Thursday, breaking down Gavin McKenna versus Yvars Stenberg.

And the way I want to do this is I really want to kind of have each of us kind of make the case on one side of this debate. It's a really interesting one at the top. I mean, I know McKenna is the bigger name, Chris. But Yvar Stenberg has had as good a draft eligible season as you could hope for from a young winger. Yeah, no question about it. I mean, I think that the interesting thing about Stenberg is how much of an argument he's created with his play this season. And, you know, as many points as Gavin McKenna had in college this year, You look at Stenberg's season in the SHL, and from a points per game perspective, the second best ever season for a draft eligible player, from a raw points perspective, the third best.

And he's trailing the Siddins. And they had each other, which is like a cheat code. So Stenberg, there's a lot of different reasons why there can be an argument made for Stenberg versus Gavin McKenna. And I think it's not just that, you know, that competition against the professionals and the way that he showed out. He had a great world juniors as well, which I think most people saw and would argue, you know, on Stenberg's behalf because of that. But I think for me, it comes down to style of play. Between the two players, I think that Stenberg has the opportunity to play more on the interior because he goes to the interior a little bit more for a wing. I think that he makes a lot of plays competitively in terms of puck pursuit and doing things he needs to do to get the

puck back. So I think that there's a lot of things that he brings to the table. I think there's a bit more tenacity to him. And that's not to say that McKenna isn't tenacious enough, but I just think that Stenberg overall has a little bit more jam in his game. And then on top of that, you know, he's not giving away a ton of skill. I think he's very skilled. He's got the opportunity to make a lot of plays, scores, goals really like the player overall. I think he just brings a lot to the table. So I think it's, I think it's an argument. You know, I wouldn't necessarily, you know, 100% say Stenberg over McKenna, but I think that there's a lot of the reasons that I mentioned are among the reasons

that there's an actual argument to be had. I think you can say that McKenna's not tenacious enough. Thank you, Scott. You know, that's good. Yes, let's say that. All right. Pretend you didn't hear who that one was coming from. And we'll go to Scott now.

Scott, I want you to make the case for Gavin McKenna as the best wing in this class. The case for Gavin McKenna has always been about the skill uptick. I think you just look across the board, the playmaking, the IQ, the finesse on the puck, the feel in the offensive zone. Stenberg gets high marks in all of those areas. There are some special traits in those areas for Gavin McKenna. And if you're picking first overall, you want a player who has a special quality and ability to break open a game and ability to pull you out of your seat. And nobody in this draft does that more frequently. then McKenna, in fact, I don't think there are many players in this draft that actually do that very often at all.

Gavin has that. Gavin has, even if it comes and goes, when it comes, when he sees a play open up, when there's a play to be made, when there's an opportunity to create a scoring chance in the offensive zone and the puck is in his hands, if you're picking a player in this draft that you want to have the puck in their hands in the offensive zone, it's Gavin. So I think that's, that has always been the case for Gavin is that just from a pure, skill, IQ, offensive sense level. It's just a, I think he's in a slightly different tier than Evar. And I think Evar's in a very high tier in all of those areas. So basically what that comes down to to me is I hear that, Corey, is like, this is a choose your flavor situation. Do you want the guy who's kind of conducting from the outside? He's manipulating plays and he's going to find that

seam or do you want a little bit more of the interior driver who maybe gives up a little bit of the dynamic element, not all of it to Chris's point. How do you kind of parse two players like this where both high-end talents who do it a little different? Yeah, I think that's a great point, Ed. The two of them I can think outline a lot of the arguments that I made in the article and to kind of, you know, basically simplified as, you know, McKenna's been the offense guy, is, you know, historic production wherever he goes, you know, the off-the-charts skill and

offense and Stenberg, just a little bit more competitive, translatable style. But I think sometimes in these debates, we can be, you know, people want absolutes. And I think that the debate may stray a little bit from reality. You know, Stenberg doesn't have the level of offense that McKenna has. There's a little skill that the McKinna has. But as Scott said, he does have office. Like, he has high, high-end skill, even if it isn't the special game-breaking caliber of McKenna. And even though Stenberg is a more competitive player than McKenna,

and obviously he played very well against men, even have the world championship. He's showing you he can win battles against men. I think McKenna's compete level, you know, are there, I definitely think he's a little perimeter and he's inconsistent. I don't think like he's soft, though. Like this is not a not competitive player. This is a guy who's played up age levels for years,

plays big minutes wherever he goes. Like he's not not competitive. It's just, I think usually when you pick one overall, you'd like that trait to be an asset. it's not an asset for this player, especially when you're 5-11, that is a concern. The way I would kind of parse this is, you know, I think there's a path for Gavin McKenna

to score 100 points in the NHL, a realistic path. Not saying he's going to, but I think like he has a path to get to that point where he could be a 100-point score in the NHL, you know, a true star if things go well in the development. I've watched a lot of Yvar Stanberg over the last, few years, I've never come away from a game of his being like, holy hell, this guy's a game breaker. He could score 100 points in the NHL. I don't see that. Not saying it can't happen.

It's been wrong before on plenty of players. I know, there's, you know, I just have a harder time seeing him get to that level. So that to me would be one of the tiebreakers there that be kind of in Gavin's favor is I just think the skill differential there for me is larger than the compete differential is that I would make me lean that way. But if you, I can see somebody who really didn't like the way McKenna competed at times this season, say it goes the other way. It's, it's tough though, because, you know, we've used the martyr comparison. Obviously, that's, you know, in light of the last few weeks, I think some people would gladly take that. It's becoming more and more flattering by the day right now.

But if you say the Panarin comparison, you know, he just got acquired for Liam Gritry, you know, a few months ago. So it's, it really, you know, the Martyr comparison is interesting because I don't think it's apt. It's just funny because it's Toronto, so we say it. Because Marner is a better off puck player. This is a guy who's, you know, a very two-way player. and McKenna at the same age, I would argue, is more skilled than Marner was. Marner was an exceptional junior player, elite score, but this guy's skill is like a level above that. You know, it's, so it's tough.

Like, I really sympathize with some of the people who have to make these decisions because these are not simple decisions. We know what the popular decision is, and we know what the likely decision is going to be. but there are some tensions here. And it's, I think there's going to be strong opinions in the rooms in Toronto and San Jose in Vancouver about which way to go with this. What's interesting here, Scott, is I feel like we've had, we've talked about the debate about, you know, the winger and the positional premium. I feel like we've only really ever had that about McKenna. Like I don't think we've really talked about Stenberg at number one, really at all. I mean, maybe around mid-season right around the world juniors.

But it's really kind of been, if it's one, we're talking about McKenna. And then when we get past one or get past two, then you kind of are debating the two wingers against each other. Do you get what I'm saying? Why is it that we kind of feels like we're talking about only if it's going to be a winger at one, it's going to be McKenna. And otherwise, there's a debate. Do you get what I'm saying?

Yeah, I think part of that is just because McKenna has dominated the coverage in this draft class. Like McKenna is the name. McKenna is central to every conversation. But I think it is an interesting conversation because it's a conversation that isn't just happening at one that if inevitably, if Gavin McKenna goes number one, it's a conversation that is going to continue to happen at two and potentially three in terms of Yvar Stenberg and that piece of the puzzle.

And I think part of the reason we haven't maybe had that conversation as much with Stenberg is because there's not as much to nitpick. Like there aren't as many winger flaws inherently in in Stenberg's game. In McKenna's game, it's evident. Like you watch him and there are there are warts, there are issues, there are hiccups, there were bad games this year. Stenberg did cool off a little bit in the second half himself in the SHL as well, but now he's finishing strong at men's worlds.

And there's just a consistent effort level, a consistent heaviness on pucks to Stenberg that we don't see in McKenna. And I think as a result, the conversation has just gravitated so much around Gavin. But it's, no, you're, in terms of the way that this is going to take place, it's, the, the position conversation isn't exclusively a Gavin McKenna conversation. It's going to be happening until both, until both of those players are picked. What's everybody's at HL comp for Stenberg? Mine has been Gensel. I really like that one. I mean, I see a lot of that when I watch a play. I don't think he's that different from Lucas Raymond. But I think that Gensel kind of the profile of getting to the

slot and getting the goal, playing down low really fits him. He uses Stutzla, but he doesn't have the skating that Tim has or had. So I've never really seen that. When I did my feature on him, and I asked a bunch of people in and around the SHL, that same question, one of the names that I heard that I didn't hate was Zetterberg. I'm not sure whether he's ever going to have the defensive sort of value that Zetterberg provides. but in terms of the size, the shape, the strength over his stick, the skill level, getting to the interior a little bit more, I could see Zetterberg maybe a little. But those were the names that came up in my conversation. Zetterberg was mentioned like three or four times. I don't know whether

that's just been a talking point amongst Swedish media or Swedish SHL coaches or that kind of a thing, but Zetterberg was the name that I heard. Yeah, Chris? I definitely felt like the, I like the Raymond comparison, you know, and I think that there's been a lot, a lot there. I think, you know, the, uh, Evar is probably even a little bit harder than Raymond was at that, at that same age. Um, but not, not significantly so, but yeah. I like Evar a little bit more as a prospect than I did Lucas. Yeah, I think he's maybe he's a little more quick twitch with the feat, but I guess I ask that question because

just use all those names. If you said Gensel, Raymond, or Zetterberg, and I told you you were guaranteed to walk away at first overall, guaranteed to get that player. How do you feel? Perfectly good. Those are really good players. Those are really good players,

but I'm saying, like, is this like you feel like we got the franchise building block here? Like, we're all set or you're feeling like, good player. On Zetterberg, it would be. On Zetterberg, yes. Yeah, yeah. He's also the center. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, it just comes back to my trademarked line. There's no number one this year. So. No. Have you said that before, Chris? I feel like I've said it a few times. I guess I'd make that point because, like, if you told me we're going to get Raymond or, you're not guarantee, I'll say good chance.

Good chance you can get Raymond or Gensel, remove Zetterberg for a second. I feel like, I'm excited. But if you told me, I had a good chance, I'm saying we do have a good chance. let's say I had a good chance to get Patrick Kane or Kuturov. I think now you're excited, right? Like now you're like, okay, like this is a ball player we can work with. And I think that the debate on McKenna is what is the probability that's actually going to happen? Is that actually the projection or there's some distinction between him and Kane or

distinction between him and Kutrov that will prevent that from happening? But I can see how you could talk yourself into McKenna at one. I have a harder time talking myself into Stenberg at one. that's kind of where I'm going with this. Well, I feel like when teams get into their meeting, there will be somebody they will like more than Stenberg because he's a 511 wing and because he's not like pull you out of your seats dynamic.

I feel like there will be teams that will come out of their meeting, more teams will come out of the meeting with McKinidad won because some of them will buy it that he's cane. Not saying that he is going to be cane, but there will be more teams that will buy that than they will buy that Stenberg has like a 90 plus point. potential. Just devil's advocate here. I think it's also easier to talk yourself out of Gavin. It's probably easier to talk yourself into him, but I think it's also easier to talk yourself out of him because

of the flaws and because there are just going to be scouts in every room that watched him play a few times this year and didn't like what they saw. I do think, though, that that's kind of a good answer to what I was trying to get out with Scott, though, Corey, is because like you, you said if you guarantee that it's Gensel, Raymond Zetterberg, but you can't guarantee it. So if you're going to be in that situation at one, you obviously really want the highest upside player, but you're also, and you're weighing everything against. Like, there's a chance that, you know, we might view Stenberg as maybe like a safer pick than McKenna, but if the upside's lower, it's a narrower band. And at one, I think you, you know, you certainly don't want to have someone who doesn't live up to the expectation,

but I get what you're saying. You're trying to chase the best possible outcome at one. You got to, you got to be a little bit of an optimist when you're picking at one. Right. I mean, Scott Poo-Pooge, when I brought up Yakopov the other week. But, I mean, you know, that's in the cards. I think Lefranier's in the cards, you have to at least talk about those outcomes, too. Like, you look at it, like, Lefrenier's scoring track record in the queue compared to McKenna's.

It's not, like, that far away of a track record. There's some overlap there. It's, um, I think those are, these are all things. I don't think McKenna's any guarantee. I just was making the point that I can see how some, would conclude that he's the best player. I have a harder time with this class with these good defendants in a Malhotra, seeing everybody get to the end of their process and conclude that Stenberg is the best player.

That's just more the point I was trying to make. That's saying that's how I would have it ordered. No, it's a good answer to the question. You mentioned Malhotra there. Let's take a quick break right now. We're going to come back. We're going to go deep on the center class this year because it is, it's probably a deeper, more interesting class than we've given the air time too so far on the show.

We'll be right back. All right. we are back. And I want to get into the center class now here, Corey. And let's start with the guy you mentioned right before we went to the break. Caleb Melhotra, he's kind of become the consensus top center in the class. We know that that usually does not last long on draft day. Scott's got him fourth. You've got him sixth. So it's obviously a tight cluster at the top. But when you're talking about a guy who's four and six, and yet we're kind of consistently talking about him in the top three, I wonder, like, how high could this guy go? I feel like when I talk to teams, the conversation,

they feel like Toronto has to at least have that conversation with him. I won. I feel it's a little rich for me. The issue for me with Malhotra getting him all the way up there, and I thought he looked tremendous the second half of the year. I thought he looked tremendous when all the players in Brantford left for the world juniors, and he went on that crazy run around January. Great playoff there.

But there was a lot of times where I watched Malhotra on Brantford, and I thought he was the third or fourth best player on his team. You know, there are, you think you could argue that year a check, Jake O'Brien, Adam Benak, there were, you know, those were massive contributors on that team as well. Like, you know, this is a guy I didn't have, you know, he didn't have a monster year in the OHL. He didn't have a monster year in the BCHL the year before that. The elite scoring track record basically just lasts three weeks, essentially. And I would have a hard time getting him over McKenna, who's done it for his whole last

life, who's done it over Stenberg, who has any elite score and track record for years. Now he's three inches bigger. He's a full year younger. He's a center. He's two-way. There's a lot that goes right for him. I have a hard time getting there. I think somebody will get him there, though. I think just from my conversations, I think a lot of people, I view him as a potential two. I think a lot of people in the league view him as a two. But there's enough people who think he has at least a chance to be a one. And if you buy that, there's that chance there. Then he's going real early. Like, that's just, go, yeah, go ahead. When you say, like, a two with a chance to be a one, let's, like, give people some

constant, like, I know you've used Baneers on him before, but I think, like, he sure would kind of fit that bill. He sure is a two on New Jersey, but could be someone's one, and the right year can absolutely be a one. Yeah, I think what I've watched Malhotra's best games, I've viewed him as potentially he's sure. I would not say I've seen that player consistently enough, though, to say that that's my projection.

So more of an upside than a true comp. I, like I said, it's tough because people will argue he's so skinny and he's developing and look at these, he's a late bloomer. It's the Beckett Seneca trajectory and the next, you know, he's just going to take off from here. And I get it and it could happen. But like to pass on some of those guys who've been doing it for years and it would, it's a big bet. For me, but I think it's going to happen because he's the center, because he's so young,

because he looked so good towards the end of the year. And you look at the history of the draft and you look at just the league in general, getting a first line center outside of the draft is nearly impossible. And if someone thinks he has at least a decent chance to become that, he's going to go among the first few picks. To Corey's point, too, there just haven't been those touched as many of those touchstones. He had the OHL playoffs.

He was the best player I thought at the CHL USA Prospects Challenge in November. he was really, really consistently good all year, started on a third line there in Brantford because of how deep they were. They quickly realized, he was on PP1 from day one, but they quickly realized through training camp in the early part of the season that this kid couldn't be their third line center. And then once he was elevated, it just, he was unbelievable. But to Corey's point, like, that he didn't play, because of the BCHL, he didn't play at the Hohinko last summer. Like there just weren't, there isn't that body of work that those other players have, including some of the D, like including some of the D who've had two tremendous, tremendous years of junior hockey, right? So that part of it, I think, is the challenge that Caleb, the hurdle that Caleb has to clear here.

I think the benefit that Caleb has is that you talk to anybody who's watched him play this year, and you won't find a single scout or a single person around the OHL who, doesn't love the player, the kid. You hear the word captain tossed around. Like there's, there's just elements to Caleb above and beyond how good he was this year. And he was very, very, very good this year. But it's just sort of the complete package with Caleb. And so then it boils down to how much you value those things. How much you value the two-way details, who he is off the ice, the development runway, versus the kids who've shown it to you. fun question for you Max

because we've used let's say we put the Raymond comparison for Stenberg just as an example if Seattle offered Baneers for Raymond who says no I think Detroit says no

Detroit for sure is it an easy no though I think so I mean Raymond I mean he wasn't their leading score this past year but he's a guy that you kind of expect to be your leading score the reason that in theory

the reason Seattle would look to trade Baneers is because they need that type of guy. They have, you know, plethora centers. I get that. But I think it's an easy enough, no, yeah. Interesting. I don't think it'd be, I think I agree with you. I think Detroit says no.

I feel like they'd have to think about it, though. I think it's also like, I get they have Casper Danielson. They have a lot of these guys kind of thing. But I just mean the player type is still an 18 minute and night centerman. Like that's, I feel like you, the argument is you. The offense just isn't there, though. No, it isn't. Of course, that's the argument is, but I think that's the stress points there.

Can you find Beneers easier on the open market or can you find Raymond easier on the open market? They're both hard to find. I mean, the one that I keep coming back to on Malhotra is we had, I think, a very similar conversation last year about another Caleb, Caleb Denoye. Now, to Chris's point about, you know, is there really a number one this year? These are very different draft classes last year. There was Matthew Schaefer and there was two other guys you could plausibly buy his centers in front of Caleb Denoye, and that's why he goes four. But if he's close to Caleb

Denoye, Scott, and I'd love to get your opinion on who you like better at the same stage, I mean, that is an argument in a kind of shallower draft class. Maybe not, it's a longer top tier probably than last year, but the top end isn't the same. Like, I think, I think that's probably the argument to get this guy into the top three. There are a lot of similar, and we've talked about it a little bit on the show. There are a lot of similarities between the two in terms of their production, their production in the playoffs, their size, their position, the way people talked about the details and the captain pieces of the puzzle and the intangibles. I do think when you watch the two players that Caleb has, he's a better skater, and I think

he made a more skill place this year. You can't say Caleb. Or Mel Holtra. I do think Malholtra is the better skater and made more plays. a higher quantity of plays, not by a lot, but a few more sort of high, high end plays this year than Danoye did. Yeah, I would probably rate him ahead of Danae right now. And the other thing, there's another element that I wanted to talk about, because

Corey said if you're Toronto and you at least have to have the conversation, let's talk about this from when we talk about the character, the other things, intangibles, the opportunity that you have with a player of that nature, is he is exciting? he is not as exciting as McKenna. I can tell you that pretty quickly. I don't think he's as exciting as Stenberg, to be completely honest. I do think that there's an argument to be had that he may be a best fit. You think about the opportunity to be within the opportunity in the market, you know, the pressure that would come with being the number one overall pick of the Toronto Maple Leafs. And you say, you know, I think that's going to have to be part of the assessment here is who has the capability to, do that. You've already got your number one center, you know, for the foreseeable future,

assuming that Matthew stays. Where does, you know, how much of a benefit would a player like Malhotra be if you're Toronto? So these are the kind of conversations you have to have. I mean, you look at the pressure that Gavin was under all season this year. I think he's practiced in terms of the pressure of different things. The question is, you know, Caleb with the NHL bloodlines, Mel Hocher, that is, with the NHL bloodlines and the different things that he has kind of come from, how he would handle that kind of situation. I think it's difficult to know. But I think that has to be part of the calculus of the decision making. And what are we, what ultimately are we doing with this pick and, you know, how, you know, getting it right on top of that, the premium position possibility. And if you believe that there's a chance that he could be your number one in the future, does that bring more value to you than having a number one, you know, a top line. winger, that'll be the question they'll have to ask themselves. And I do know there have been some evaluators, I've gotten to the end of the process here,

and have at least had him ahead of Stenberg, and some have had him ahead of McKenna for reasons that we've discussed at length. Yep. So behind Mel Hocher and the center class, Corey, are two guys that I think we can kind of talk about together, Vigo, Bjork, and Tyne and Lawrence. At one point, you had Tyn and Lawrence as the number one player in this class. Things changed. It's an evolving list.

I don't think you have them there now. I don't remember who you have higher on your most recent list between him and Bjork, but it feels like they're kind of of a class together, right? Yeah, I have Bjork ahead. I think both of them kind of go six to 12, six to 13, whatever. Like, they're both kind of going to go. There's that top group of wingers, Malhotra, you know, and then I think once those guys go and maybe a couple of the D,

then you start talking about them because I think they're the next group, not only the next centers, but they're the next group of forwards, too. I don't think there's a winger. that gets everybody super excited. Belchez kind of does. Hemming kind of does. But I feel like Bjork's, the way he's ended this season, you said they're close, but their seasons gone very differently. Lauren's had a really disaster of a season. Bjork's had a fantastic season. It's been playing very well now at the men's world championships. You know, I kind of view, you know, Bjork as that, you know, if you're drafting him that high, I think you would draw alignment with him in like Logan Stankov. And, you know, I kind of view, you know, Bjork as that, you know, if you're drafting him that high, I think you will, you would draw a line with him in, like, Logan Stankov. and say, I think he could be that kind of player. Frank Nazar is another name that's come to mind for me with Bjork. And, you know, Frank went 13. Marco Ross, he went nine.

So that's kind of the range of thinking of. I think in this draft where there isn't a ton of centers, even though he's 5'9, I think he's shown against men that there is a strong chance he can play center. For sure. At the higher level. So I think he stays in that top 10 conversation. And despite his lackless or second half,

there's still a lot of people in the league I talked to. Not a lot, not everyone. There are some people who have dropped Lauren significantly, but there's still a lot of people I talk to who have him in the top 10 conversation just because he's one of, if not the best pure skater in the draft. He's a six one center.

He still has a, the body of work is still, you know, less impressive than we thought it was going to be, but it's still a pretty good body of work. So I still think these are still going to be among the very first forwards we're going to go in this draft class. Wouldn't you say, I think one of the biggest,

separating factors because obviously there's a size difference. There's all those things. But wouldn't you say that the hockey sense is a defining separation between the two? Yeah. I mean, I mean, Bjork has way more offense. Way more. Make, make, make, make, make more plays. You know, Lawrence is more just more athletic.

Like the skating is way better. The size, obviously. I think and, you know, Bjork is more competitive. I mean, they're just way, they're just way different players. Yeah, they're not. Yeah, that's the thing is they are very different. There's really not a lot of similar. between the two.

But, and then, but I just think that every time I watch Vigo Bjork play, I was like, oh, this guy just knows how to play hockey. You just knows how to play hockey. There's nothing there, like he has some of the best hockey sense for me in this entire draft. I think that his, his ability to figure out how he needs to play in every situation is fascinating. What really sold me on Vigo ahead of Tynan is the playoffs that he played, you know, Gergarten's was using him in pretty high leverage situation.

They were putting first lines. Yes. I mean, he was matching up. And now he goes to the world championship. He's the youngest scorer in the history of Sweden's national team, goal score in the history of Sweden's national team. And they're putting him in those positions to succeed. They're leaning on him. And they have NHL players.

I mean, it's, it's incredible to watch how much respect he has among his peers, among the coaches that have coached him. It is, I mean, he's just kind of a Swiss. Army knife player that can do a lot of things just in a pretty small package. So he's one of those mini knives, I suppose. But either way, those are pretty still usable. Despite the size difference, he's also way stronger over pucks than he is. Like it was a major issue for Tynan at the college level. And it has not been an issue for Vigo at the professional level. Like he's, he is a, and that's one of the things all of his teammates talk about is just like this kid is strong. You know, I think we all right now have Vigo ahead of Lawrence.

But I think when it comes time down to it, I think it's a 50-50 who's going to go first? Because I think there's going to be a lot of teams that are going to struggle with the idea of taking a 5-9 center in the top 10, who's not an elite skater. I think they're going to say, like, they're going to wonder, like, he's awesome now.

Is it going to be awesome in five years? Despite, the thing about Bjork is he's so likable the way he plays, because he's so hardworking. He brings, he's very consistent. He plays both ways. I do think there's, if I was to make a minor criticism is despite his great hockey sense,

I don't know if his puck play is like prolific. I think if you draft a smaller four like that at a super high point in the draft, you're trying, you're thinking there's a path for him to get to 80, 90 points. I know, I never seen a game of his where I've bought that

as his offensive ceiling. not saying he can't get there but I think those are going to be the the minor debates. I still think everyone's going to have this guy rated very highly. Like he's going very early in this draft. It's just a matter of what the slot actually is. Tynin's not getting,

like have you ever felt that Tynin could get to 80-90 points? No, no, but I think that's going to be the conversation. If you, like, I think people would say Lawrence, if he's not a two, he's a three, I feel like with Bjork is, the argument whether right or wrong is going to be like, we're not playing this guy in our bottom six. that's going to be the conversation some teams are going to have.

And if you look at the Stankovin argument, like, I would say that Logan has a more proven score, had a more proven scoring track record as a younger player as well. Maybe. Bjork's underage scoring was really good. Yeah. Well, yeah, his U-20. Yeah.

Like that was, it was record setting. It was historic. Like if he were playing in the W.HL this year. Stancoven went in the mid-second round, too. Yeah, exactly. But now that we see that should not have happened. As some, perhaps even on this podcast, I think probably all three of us had said. I love Stancovin.

Anybody here having tops eight, top ten? No. No. Okay. I had him in the first round. Yeah. I think we all did. That's my quote is there's a little bit different of a risk assessment there.

For sure. I think the fact that he's done it against men and what he did at the World Juniors this year distinguishes him from Stancoven. with either of these two players, Corey. We talked about it with McKenna. You can kind of talk yourself up and feel like, okay, this guy should, you know, could be Kutrov, could be this. How high can you get yourself on Bjork?

If you, like, could you talk yourself into him being a first line center? Yeah, I feel like. It's frustrating. I'm going to say a name and it's frustrating because I feel like we use this one every year. Every year. Braiding point. Yeah. And I feel like, you know, like, you know.

There's always one. Yeah. I mean, that's, but that's the risk, right? That's why people are going to be like, people are going to, it's going to come up in NHL meetings and people are going to be like, I thought I've heard this one before. I heard it last year and I heard it the year before that. I heard the year before that still waiting on them. Well, the reason that we use Braden Point so much, the reason that we use Vincent Trocheck so much is because there's only so many guys of this profile at that size. And we don't have a wide menu to choose from. And so on one hand, that tells you like, yep, that's why you're

hearing it. it's maybe a little bit of a caution flag of like if everyone's braiden point on their projection but they all end up being frank naser or logan stancovin great players but not braden point um that's worth kind of filing away i think also wasn't a top 10 pick yeah yeah but i guess like but he obviously he's the first line center a stanley cuff winner like it's yeah heck i use braden point with frank nazard with all the good things biorke has done i don't think i think if you're told like hockey people that's the projection they wouldn't like think that's unreasonable like i mean like bork has done almost everything you could have asked for him this year other than like

produce what stanberg did essentially in the shl this year yeah i mean even like like zach benson is a winger if you told me zach benson was going to play center i think it would look a lot like vigo biork and that's a like we're seeing benson be one of the better players in the playoffs right now we're seeing stankovan be one of the better players in the playoffs right these are always the hangups jackson blake's size jackson Blake, right? And I think Bjork's better than Jackson Blake. So it's, you know, that's to me, like I can talk myself into Bjork as a one. I don't know that I can get there on Lawrence. Well, with Benson, with Stankovin, with Seth Jarvis. That's a similar there is all, they all have off the charts compete. Yeah. Which is, which is what Bjork has, which is why I think he's still

a really good can to go in the top 10. But I said, these, I said, these are not substantial criticisms. These are minor criticisms. As you try to parse which one of these two you want to take, Is there a gap, Scott, between those two guys? How wide is the gap, I should say, between those two guys and, let's say, Oliver Suvanto and Alexander Command, who I think are kind of the next guys that we expect to go in the top 20 in the center class? I've grown on command. I'm a big, big fan of Command. I don't think Command is all that far behind where I have Lawrence at this point. The Suvanto, I'm in a completely different place on. Like, I just haven't been able to get to any. kind of belief that Suvanto is more than a bottom six center in the league. Now, a six, three, heavy bottom six center is still a valuable player, but it's not a player that you consider taking in the range that we just talked about those two guys. So I do think there's a pretty significant gap there for me between Suvanto and those guys. I think commands that that next center

for me now. Like Morozov was in that conversation at different points. Suvento was in that conversation at different points. Command, the consistency, of commands play this year, how hard he is on puck's, his contact skills, I think there's a real, real player there. I still don't think there's quite enough offense there to sort of bridge that gap, but he's in that next year. Like, I fully expect that command goes in the teens at this point. And if we're talking about one of those two centers going in the early teens and he goes in the late teens, then there's not actually that much of a gap on draft day. The difference between him and Lawrence would just be skating, but otherwise I think, like, they're, like, offense are definitely close.

And I think command's a good skater. It might not be, like, top of the class good, but he's a good skater. You're right. I just think the Lawrence is a premier skater. Who would you guys have as that sort of fourth center? I have Savanto. I'd be a toss-up, but I think I'd probably lean to command with you, Scott. Oh, fourth center.

sorry, sorry. Yeah, I would have Command and then, no, sorry, I do have Savanto as the Foursetter. Sorry, I'm misremembering things here right now. Yeah, I have them back to back right now. I have Savanto just ahead. And the thing is that even though Command doesn't have Savanto's size, like this is still a guy who I think is going to produce on the interior, he's going to be around the net, he's going to dig around the blue paint, Corey.

Yeah, I think, you know, really, really young player. I think he weighs a couple of days away from being 27 eligible. and I think you still look at, he had a really tough second half between his club play and just his okay U-18s, but the world juniors he had was really, really impressive.

Good first half there and between his Holinka and his league of play. The skating is a concern, like he's not a dynamic play by any means, but I still think you look at a six-three heavy centerman with good offense. I think as he matures physically,

the offense will come more at the pro level. I think there's just like a, I think by next year, I think he will score more. And I think he'll reassure some of our concerns. That's my projection. Obviously, Scott doesn't agree. But I think there's going to be good offense there at the next level.

Not great, but good to go with his all-around play. All right. So that's like the top cluster, Scott. But who are the other names to be kind of on the radar for the rest of the first round at the center position? Well, there's a handful. I just mentioned Morozov there. He was the one who earliest on in the season had sort of put himself in that conversation. He got off to a great start at Miami.

He was their first line center. He was producing. He's another, to Corey's point about command in the late birthday, another sort of really young player in the draft, the youngest player in college hockey this season. Him and Heming ended up being a couple of days apart once Heming arrived for the second half. But just a really, really strong first half.

And then tailed off a little bit, a little bit like Suvanto, tailed off a little bit in the second half, lost his spot as their first line center, kind of became a middle six center for them. the production didn't sort of keep pace, but really, really well-rounded player. And I still think probably goes sort of in the 20s somewhere. The other ones are sort of interesting. Jack Hextall played in Youngstown in the USHL this year. And I've spoken a lot with people around the USHL and around Youngstown about him this season.

And there's a lot of belief in this kid. I don't think that has necessarily shown up in public sphere rankings and that kind of a thing. But between conversations with scouts and conversations around the USAHs, HECDahl, like, people think he's going to be a middle six center in the league. And the offense hasn't maybe quite been there to completely sell you on that. Like, he doesn't make a ton of plays. But again, really strong on pucks, pro details, habits, skates well, has the body. He's not a tall kid, but like really thick, strong kid.

And he's just smart and just looks, to Chris's earlier point, like just looks like a hockey player. And then there's some sort of wild cards in that group. Brooks Ruggowski's the big one, is 6, 7 center. Viewed as a winger by some. There are some who don't love sort of the competitiveness in that side of his game, although he did penalty kill in Oshawa this year. Going to Michigan State, interesting profile at that size. He's got some skill, like he made some plays this year,

and you sort of immediately start to wonder about some of the big men that have come out of the OHL in recent years, like Akirn Walton and some of those guys. but those are those are kind of the names and then maddox d'es another one who like rickowski is kind of viewed as a winger by a lot of people despite the fact that he played center in quebec this year and is the natural center and was the first overall pick into the queue as a center de jane hasn't been doesn't sort of have that sort of consistent consistent work ethic like that's the one thing that he's very physical he's very talented he's got the size but it it has come and go for him for really for two years and he dealt

with some concussions and there were some other things at play in his development. But people have wanted to see him be more consistent and it's been a common critique of his game. So may end up as a winger. I think Ruggowski may end up as winger. But Moresov and Hextall are centers all day. Like if they make it in the NHL, they'll be playing down the middle. Let's take a quick break right there. That's the center class.

We're going to come back. We're going to talk about what we've seen so far at Worlds. I imagine Vigo Bjork's name and Yvars Stenberg's name are going to come up again. And preview the Memorial Cup. We're right back. All right. Let's bring this home talking about some. tournaments going on right now, not the Stanley Cup playoffs, but the men's world championships,

to start with Chris, going on overseas right now. And there is some prospect flavor to these world championships because of the young Swedes we've already talked about. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, Yvar Stenberg and Vigo Bjork given us plenty to watch. Sweden has put them in a position to be contributors to the team, and they have done that already for us this so far for Stenberg in the tournament. Two points for Vigo, including a goal, the youngest goal score ever for Sweden at the men's worlds. You know, the last time there were two draft eligible players on their team, it was, it was the Cedine twins. So, you know, this is a really outstanding opportunity. And they've given them opportunities on the power play. You know, they've got Bjork in the bumper. They've got

Stenberg kind of work in the half wall. You know, there's a lot of different things that those guys have done, which has been outstanding to watch. I think that Sam Halam, who has gotten lots of criticism for the way that he's coached Sweden over the last couple of tournaments that he's been in has given these guys a lot of run. And they've come in and it rewarded them with that opportunity. And like Vigo is holding his own. Evar is more than holding his own. Like they're both, they're not overwhelmed by the moment or the opportunity,

which is only going to help their stock. You know, they're the two guys that, you know, I think everybody's excited to see. But certainly, Lafia has a couple of draft eligibles as well, both Albert Smiths and Oliver's Merniaks, both playing, Smits has been a top four defenseman for Lafayah the whole time. They have not been very good in this tournament, but he is obviously a key player for them. So, yeah, I mean, I think it's a great last kind of reminder.

And we've certainly seen guys in the past years, Brancic Neegard and Solberg and others, you know, kind of Marco Casper have really raised their stock at this event by what they've done. And I think that we're seeing, at least for the, you know, the top three guys, guys mentioned, Merniix has played a bit of a bit role for Latvia. And then there's also, there's even Leon Kolarik with Austria. So there's a lot of draft eligible talent to watch here. Do you read anything into Corey, the fact that Vigo Bjork has had a bigger role that Anton Frontel for Sweden? Well, there's, I think, two different parts of that conversation. It goes to how competitive and dependable and smart and all the great things that Vigo Bjork brings the table.

And it's that Anton Frundel kind of had a little up and down. pre-tournament that he I've used Jekyll and Hyde with him before and that's kind of what he is sometimes is that you know you look at the you know in the SHL this year there were times he was Benjian there was times he was on a

tarred you know a torrid scoring stretch and then he comes over to the NHL in the spring and he was just fantastic with Chicago and then he goes to go team Sweden and he's played just okay and now he did he get to the lineup and he gets two points

it's that's kind of what he is. I think, you know, he's competitive, but he's not, doesn't have the off the charts compete that Bjork does. So I feel like with, like, Bjork is just Mr. Consistency. That's what he's been for two years. And so I could, I see why I think scratching for Rondell was a little harsh. Like, I think, given what they had, a limited skill this team brought, like, they think they should have played him from the start. But it didn't surprise me, like, I didn't agree, but it didn't surprise me. Yeah.

The other tournament I want to get, Scott, is the one that begins on Friday night, the Memorial Cup. And, you know, there's some prospect intrigue always to this one, but I think especially when Landon DuPont is at the center of this. So the team's competing in this Memorial Cup, Everett, Colonna, the hosts, Chakutami, and Kitchener. Start on DuPont, but I do just kind of want to hear your overall thoughts on what you're looking for in this Memorial Cup.

I'm just looking for Landon to be the Landon that he has been, like he has been outstanding. He has really elevated for them this year. He had a tremendous historic season a year ago, and I think he's been a much, much better player, a much more impactful player in all three zones this year. The offense has really, really sort of found another notch, that the mobility has found another notch. The one thing I wondered about with Landon early on in his development was that he was super physically advanced, and I didn't actually think he had that sort of Kale McCar-Quarr-Quin-Hugh skating. and I still don't think he has that level of skating,

but the shakes and the lateral mobility and all of that is very, very real. And he makes a lot of guys miss and he's attacking downhill and playing with a ton of confidence. And then on top of that for a six foot defender, he's strong and he defends really well. And he's so, so smart. And he looks like a potential first overall defenseman even at sort of six foot and 185, 190 pounds. So I'm excited to see. him live again. Like it's been a minute since I've seen Landon live. So I'm excited about that. And I'm excited for him to demonstrate if he can really rise at an even tougher level. And the one criticism I think

you have of Everett coming into this tournament is that in terms of the level of competition that Kitchener and Shakutemi faced, the top two, three teams in both of those leagues, I think were stronger than the top two or three teams in the WHL. And so this will be this will be the biggest test of Landon's career so far. I think looking for Landon could just be the title of our next 12 months of this show. That's our theme. That's the season, 2026, 27. Predictions.

I want each of you to give me a winner for the Memorial Cup. Scott, you want to start? I'm going to go with Shakutomi. The more I've watched this Shakutomi team, the more impressed I've been. I think they've got the deepest blue line. That blue line is outstanding. Tourigny, Huang, Levois. Who else is on that?

There's a fourth guy, the Seattle. Oh, Alexei Bernier, who just signed with Seattle. Uh, like their top four is legit. I think in Lucas Beckman, they've got the best goalie in the tournament. They don't quite have the firepower up front that Kitchener and Everett have, but Maxime Masay has really emerged this season as, as a star in junior hockey. And I think they've got enough behind Massey to score enough goals. And then I just, I really like their D. Huang in particular, I think flies under the

radar as a prospect. Like he's, he's been very impressive this season. And Levois is a stud at that level and can eat minutes. and Beckman is, I think, the best goalie in the tournament. So I lean, I like all three of the non-hosts in this field, but I lean Shaku to me, I think. Chris? I'm going to go with Kitchener. I think that the Rangers have that kind of championship built squad in terms of there's a heaviness to them.

Sam O'Reilly is a real difference maker, you know, even the way that they kind of beefed up their blue line with Jared Woolley. then they have kind of just those guys that can score for you, you know, Jack Pridham and Dylan Edwards, who had such a great end of the season there, really impressed by that group. And then Christian Kirsch is really kind of the goaltender. He can be the difference in the tournament. You know, they only lost two games during the playoffs

and really, you know, handled themselves well. I would have loved to have seen what they would look like against, you know, a full strength, Barry without, you know, who didn't have Colbo Dwen or what they would have looked like against Brantford. I think it would have been a real test for them. But I just think like a guy like Sam O'Reilly at the center of everything for them is an impressive difference maker at that level. I think O'Reilly is the best forward in this year's tournament in terms of where he's currently on as a player.

Third straight MEMCup for him, too. So he's been there, done that. This is not going to be too much. I do think they need more just quickly, but I do think they need more from Pridim. Like Pridim saw his role reduced there late in the playoffs and wasn't a go-to guy for them and they need him to score. Yeah. He sat a lot of show. and overtimes that they played this year, which is not what you want to see from your top score.

Corey, last word to you. Who's winning it? Kitchener. I just think the way they play, the play style, I think, is just conducive to this time of year. Stan O'Reilly's been a man on a mission here the last few months. I've just been really impressed by their postseason, and I think this is their time. Interesting that none of us picked Everett, who were number one in the CHL's rankings for almost the entire season.

The dub just doesn't win at the Memcum. Yeah, the issue with the dub is that you kind of see it with the Q is that there's so many teams in the Western League and there's usually a decent number of teams I think they have a chance and the Q realizes very quickly who doesn't have a chance and all the good players end up on a couple of teams. Like the West, I think Everett was very clearly the best team in the Western League this year, but it doesn't mean, but doesn't mean they have. They got enough at the trade deadline to get them over the hump here in the CHL tournament.

I think they could. I think this is still a really, really good team. I think there's a different Western League team. That's one of the ones we've seen to enter the MECUP. I think they have a really deep roster and they could go the distance. But that's always the issue with them between the other two leagues. I should also say that I probably disrespected Teague again when I said that Sam O'Reilly was the best forward in this year's field because Teage is at the junior level this year was

unbelievable, but Yeah, you're still not wrong. O'Reilly's got a goal of game in these playoffs. I think it's a fair point. That's going to do it for us. Thanks for listening to this episode of The Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. You can, of course, catch more of Chris

over at Flow Hockey. And on his podcast, called up, I love that wave. And obviously, Scott and Corey coming out with new content every single day at The Athletic. We'll see you over there, and we'll talk to you soon.