The Athletic Hockey Show - Is the Hockey Hall of Fame just the Hall of very good? Anaheim Ducks and Los Angeles Kings shockingly good and NHL's Winter olympic involvement in jeopardy after Ottawa Senators COVID-19 outbreak.

Episode Date: November 17, 2021

On the Wednesday round table, Rob Pizzo from CBC Sports, along with Sara Civian and Jesse Granger from the Athletic look back on the 2020/21 class for the Hockey Hall of Fame, and if the standard that has to be met to be a hall of fame'er has been watered down.Lisa Dillman from the Athletic Los Angeles joins the show to discuss the overachieving Los Angeles Kings and the Anaheim Ducks who have shocked the hockey world with the start to their season, including a rejuvenated Ryan Getzlaf and Jonathan Quick.Plus, the round table discusses Trevor Zegras overtime stick flip celebration and his subsequent misconduct, if PK Subban is a serial slew footer, the struggling Vancouver Canucks who continue to preach patience and the Ottawa Senators who have been ravaged by COVID-19 and how the outbreak on their team, could affect the NHL's involvement in the 2022 Winter Olympics in Beijing. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What's going on, hi, everybody. Welcome to the athletic hockey show, the Roundtable Edition. I am Rob Paisal from CBC Sports in freezing cold Canada. Sarah Sivian and Jesse Granger is just chilling in Vegas, having a good time, enjoying the weather. Let me tell you post pictures, Sarah. I'm just like, oh, come on, man. Enjoying the weather. That's what I'm doing in Vegas.

That's, you're on vacation. Aren't you in Vegas right now? Aren't you guys? How are you guys not in the same room, by the way? I thought for sure we'd see you guys in the same room today. Contrary to popular belief, I do not live in a casino in Los Angeles. I am way out here in Summerlin. It is quite the drive.

I mean, Sarah could have come to my house to record it in this studio, but it's pretty far drive out here. I would have done anything to meet your cat. For people who don't, this is a podcast, so a lot of people listen to this, but we do it over Zoom. and I can't tell you how many times Sarah's cat makes an appearance, just behind her and just around. And she just love talking about cats. I miss her. But Jesse's cat is, what is it like a naked cat? Like, what's the breed?

It is a sphinx cat. So it is hairless. His name is Heisenberg after the Breaking Bad character. He's pretty awesome. Wow. Bet you didn't think you'd click on doing the athletic podcast in your cat talk about hairless cats. But we are going to talk about some hockey. You guys don't worry.

We'll talk about the Sends Postmoment, how that may or may not affect the upcoming Olympics in Beijing. We'll talk about the Canucks and could change us beyond the way. And Dionne Finoff, his retirement and what his future holds. But guys, we got to talk about the Hall of Fame. And Sarah, yeah, Sarah's laughing because we've been texting about this. We're a little fired up for different reasons. But why don't we get the touchy feel? Healy stuff out of the way first.

Jerome again, LaMarian Hosa, Doug Wilson, Ken Holland, Kim St. Pierre, all inducted. And remember, this was supposed to be last year, didn't happen because of COVID. So they had to wait a long time to go through the ceremony and everything else. Did you watch the Hall of Fame ceremony? Is this something that you make sure to tune in? And if you did, did you have a favorite part or something that really stuck out? I wouldn't say I never watch it, but it's got to be a player that I was like really connected to to sit there and watch the whole ceremony.

And this time I was working. I don't remember exactly what I was doing during it. But I was kind of keeping an eye on it. I didn't watch the whole thing all the way through. Yeah, they don't exactly have it on prime time in America. I know who caught in, and that's good enough for me. I read Haley's article on Nagan, and that was amazing. And I'll take that.

Yeah, I've covered a bunch of them here in Toronto, and it's a lot of fun. It's one of those rare times, too, where family is kind of a big deal. You know what I mean? like you're interviewing, you'll be on like the red carpet and you're interviewing a player who's going in or one of the players who's there to support them. And meanwhile, they've got like four kids around them and their wives and everything else. And I've always, I love the speeches. I love even when they go too long, I love every bit of it.

There was one part that really jumped out to me when Kim St. Pierre, she's doing her speech. And at one point it shows her kids and they're not paying attention at all. Like, they're just like looking around the little kids. And she gets to the point where she wants to talk about her kids. and she says, you guys, she almost scolds them in her speech. You got to pay attention. Pay attention to me now. And they just, oh, sorry, mom, sorry, mom.

But yeah, I like, I love the Hall of Fame. And it's, for us here in Canada, it's the most debated thing in hockey. Because there's really not much else to debate as far as, like, almost like a yes or no. Are they in or are they out? and that's i want to get to my bitch and moanin part of the podcast i'm going to call it that bitching and moaning um and i know sarah you're going to get in on this because you you know the athletic did that fantastic athletic hall of fame committee um it was not fantastic rod brindamore should be the hall of fame okay i'll let you i'm going to give you your hall of fame rod brindamor

rant in a second what is a hall of fame supposed to be in my opinion it is supposed to be the best of the best and you can even out of the best. And I think we have slowly morphed the hockey Hall of Fame into the hall of very, very good. And I'm quoting Mark Lazarus on that one, but I think it's a very good point. We are putting in role players. We're putting in players who fill the sentence of, you don't win a Stanley Cup unless you've got this person. I don't know about you guys. That's not what the Hall of Fame means to me.

of fame is the Bobby Orrs, the Gordy Howes, the Wayne Gradsky's, the elites, the players that got credit their whole career, but they were so good, they need some more credit. I'll throw that out there. Agree or disagree, Jesse? Oh, I completely agree with you. I think it, part of the reason I'm not maybe as into the induction ceremonies as, as like you mentioned, people are in Toronto, is because guys are getting in that are very good players, but not. when you think of like the best of their era. Like a player should have been the best at his position for several years to me to make it. What do you think, Sarah?

Well, what do you guys want to do about that now? We had an interesting kind of conversation about this in our induction committee talks. Like, okay, we all agree that it's kind of getting to the Hall of Very Good. But what do we do? Take people out of it now. And like, how do you proceed going forward now? Not letting people that are already better than the people that are already in. in like that's where i'm out with rod brindamore i feel like at this point he's the 25th of all time

in points he's the only captain to bring a cup to carolina he averaged 24 minutes time on ice as a 35 year old in that cup season and he has more goals and points than a lot of people in the thing so where are we you know what i mean that i think that's a great point of what do we do now because yeah the floodgates have opened and unfortunately every every single year I hear this sentence. Well, if you put so-and-so in, then how can you not put so-and-so in? And, you know, there are the poster childs, like the poster children like, you know, Clark Gillies always gets brought up, you know, players like that, or they go, well, if Clark

Gillies is in the Hall of Fame, then shouldn't Jesse Granger be in the Hall of Fame? You know, it's, and we laugh about it, but I'm going to be honest with you, it angers me at times because I just, they've let so many these players in the, and it all really boils down to the 18 person committee and that format for getting people in. Because when somebody gets nominated, so I want to say, hey,

I nominate Jesse Granger. And I'm using you because I don't want to slam anybody too hard on the podcast, but Jesse Granger. All right. Well, look at this 18 person committee. Well, down at the corner there, that guy used to coach Jesse Granger. Well, oh, that guy over there used to, you know,

play with Jesse Granger. Oh, there's the guy who drafted Jesse Granger. Do you think Jesse Granger should get in? Of course you should. If you ask me right now, my best friend, Ryan, should be a Hall of Famer? He's my best friend. Sure you should. That's, therein lies the problem, guys. We can't have these 18 buddies picking Hall of Famers. I agree with you. And I agree with Sarah that it's not an easy, like you and I, like I agree with you, Rob, that there's something should be done in terms of like things should change in terms of the metrics we use and like the bar you have to clear. But it's not that easy because it's in the middle of the process. You're not restarting it. It reminds me of like the UFC. I don't know if you guys are MMA fans. They just

redid their Hall of Fame and like took everyone out and started from scratch. If the NHL did that, we could do that. And like, and the UFC almost built it like they've got a wing for like people who helped build the UFC, but maybe weren't spectacular fighters. And then they've got like the fighters wing and they've got like different to where to where people who had impacts who weren't maybe the best fighter could get in. I feel like the NHL, obviously that's not going to happen. But I feel like that would be the only way to really change the standard you have to meet to be a Hall of Famer. Sarah, you were part of this athletic Hall of Fame committee where you guys kind of mimic the 18 person process and you vote in. You had multiple layers of voting. And

basically you guys had somewhat of the same, you know, induction class, except yet Alexander McGilney, who I think should be in the Hall of Fame. Jennifer Botterall and Natalie Darwitz and Red Berenson in there as well. Walk us through a little bit of what this whole process was like. I would love to have been a fly on the wall hearing some of the debates in there. Yeah. Well, first of all, you have to remember that it's the Hockey Hall of Fame, not the NHL Hall of Fame.

So you kind of have to like think about everybody's contributions to the game itself. And a lot of that, and I get kind of the argument against Brindamore with like national, international medals and things like that. Like, I get that if we're talking, zooming out to that. You realize how hard it actually is to induct somebody when you're going through this thing. And then you realize, like, what we're talking about with buddies over here, buddies over there. And like, we're all advocating for our buddies. And then, yeah, yeah, when they're trying to debate who gets in and who gets out,

Jesse's phone goes off. Jeez. You know the whole thing. Go ahead, Sarah. I feel like it's definitely, and I've talked to, like, people in the committee and it's kind of like,

yeah, you have to not advocate for your buddies, but it's like, they have people from different walks of life for a reason. So, like,

people that have seen certain careers and can weigh in on things. And I feel like they need to pick that committee very, very carefully because it does feel like,

I don't know, people that played in certain markets, kind of get the precedents over other people. Like, will the, I don't know. We'll see about this upcoming class. I feel like that'll be really telling, you know. It's created a bottleneck, though, and that's the problem.

Yeah. You start putting people in and then suddenly you start looking at future classes. Like, look at next year, you've got the Sadiens. You got Roberto Lwango, Carolyn, Carolyn Ruelette. You've got people who are still on the outside looking in. Daniel Offerton, fifth year of eligibility. Rod Brindamor's, it is ninth. Alexander McGillany is 13th, which is mind-boggling to me.

Pierre Turgeon, more points than anyone not in the Hall of Fame. He's in his 12th year. And it just becomes impossible. And then you have all these delays. You have all of these situations. Like I even remember 99 when Wayne Gretzky got in, he was the only player. I understand what you're doing, but you're just creating more and more issues every time somebody becomes eligible. What I'm thinking is if I'm telling the story of hockey to my children and if I'm

I include this person, then they deserve to be in the Hall of Fame. That's how I'm going off of it at this point. I agree. And I think I agree a lot with what Jesse said. I think it's for a significant amount of time, this person either had to be the best at their position or at least in the discussion as, you know, the best. I know there are certain situations where, for example, Brad Park. Well, Brad Park was the second best defenseman in the NHL for many, many years behind some guy named Bobby Orr.

Okay. So he's a Hall of Famer. But, but yeah, I mean, I don't know. I don't have an idea as far as maybe you have an 18 person committee, but you also have, you know, in the style of baseball, maybe reporters get a vote. And then maybe fans get a, I don't know what the answer is, but it's, it, I find myself getting more angry every single year. And Jesse, you're laughing at me. You're, you're laughing at my anger. Yeah, I don't know.

I don't stress out about the hockey hall of fame. Yeah. I'm going to take a deep breath. Your Canadian is showing. It's very much showing. My Canuck is in full. I'm just going to take a swig of maple syrup and we'll move on to the next topic. You're here in Raleigh, like, let everybody in.

Who cares? Ottawa Senators, nine of them with COVID, a coach as well. Three games were postponed. First postponement we've seen this year, guys. We've seen players get put on obviously the COVID protocol. But it did bring up the situation coming up in Beijing. It was very well publicized that when they did announce that they were going to Beijing, there was an out clause.

If anything went south as far as COVID, the NHL can pull the plug. They do have a drop dead date of January the 10th before they can do that. Did you guys, when you saw these post moments, did the Olympics pop in your head at all? or do you think it would take something cataclysmic to really cancel or cancel this deal for Beijing? Sarah? Yeah, I think it would take something huge. And I think that there's still an opt-out. I feel like I haven't let myself get too excited about the Olympics just because I know that there's still opt-out clauses and all those things.

So I'm holding my breath for that. But I did hear a little bit off the record that, not on the record now, that the NHL was going to revoke. visit its testing protocols and it was going to maybe stop testing vaccinated players until this breakout happened. And now they're just like, okay, we're going to keep testing and that's the late go. So I guess Robbindamore was saying yesterday that we're still in this thing. And yep, it's still a pandemic. So you got to be vigilant. And I guess it's just another reminder of that, you know? Yeah, I don't expect this to affect the Olympics unless it becomes multiple teams missing multiple games.

Like, this is, they can make these games up relatively easy within the schedule, I think. If it becomes a situation where there are five, six teams that are having games canceled, that's when I think, you may venture into the waters of possibly pulling the players out of the Olympics. Unlike Sarah, I have let myself get excited for the Olympics. And I am setting myself up for a massive disappointment if these players aren't in the Olympics. So, and I also think that when they made, like, when they made that CBA, And when they were negotiating it, that was such a big chip for the player's side that I feel like they maybe gave up some things in negotiations in order to have that.

So if the owners are suddenly just going to pull that out from under them, it's going to have to be like a black and white. Like, this is obvious. We have too many games to make up. We can't send you guys. Sorry. Like, it has to be obvious to me. See, it's interesting that you went that way as far as as the NHL pulling the plug. just because there are just too many games to make up.

I almost look at it. Not that. I look at it as the, as you mentioned, during the CBA negotiations, the players really wanted to go to the Olympics. The NHL didn't. They lose all this time to a pandemic. They've got money to make up. I think the NHL is looking for any,

any abort button they can find. It may not even have to do with a number of games. If you've got five teams, even if five teams, let's say, postpone three games each. I don't think it's the number of games. I think it's them saying, we've got an outbreak here. We can't. We can't go. That's, that's kind of the way I looked at it. I mean, I could see that. Like, I, like, I, I am always guilty of giving the NHL too much credit. It happens all the time. So here I am again saying that I don't think they'll, they'll pull it

unless they absolutely have to. But, I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if you're right. I don't know. I guess, I guess we're going to have to wait and see. You're obviously going to make those games up. Let's move on to the Vancouver Canucks. and things are hurting right now, guys. Three losses in a row. Just five wins on the season. Second last in the Pacific. Francesco Aquilini met with John O'Ander, Jim Benning.

To discuss things. To discuss things. Like, what? I love the way these things get portrait. To discuss things. Did he get like a Zoom invite for that? I put this in your calendar. I hope you could show up.

They got a three-game homestand, guys. You've got to figure this three-game homestand is everything. Is it not? I mean, I figured it's everything for the past what seasons with this team. It's so meddling at times. And then it's so bad. And it's like there's so much talk amongst the media and then the fans. I don't even know what would send this over the edge at this point with Jim Benning.

Like I feel like they're just never going to fire him. What do you think, Jesse? Yeah, I'm kind of in the same boat as Sarah as like, I, I, I've thought it was going to happen a few times. I remember the Canucks just came to Vegas a few games ago, and they were coming off a blowout loss to Colorado, where they just got shelled. And I remember talking in the press box,

like, is this the one? If they lose this game, and then they go up to nothing and then blow it and lose seven to four. They gave up seven goals to a Golden Knights team that is closer to the Henderson Silver Knights' HL team than it is to the actual NHL squad. And they gave up seven goals to a team that can't score. And I thought, like I genuinely thought like that was,

it. Like this is, this is where it happens. And it hasn't. Like the, you mentioned the, the meeting to talk. Like, aren't owners and GMs just discussing? Like, okay, maybe, maybe I'm like, this is just a Vegas thing, but George McPhee, Kelly McCrimman, Bill Foley, they sit up on their little perch that they have at at City National Arena every single day and talk. Every day, they talk to each other. So I, like, setting up a meeting to talk would be very strange. There has to be a reason. There has to be a reason. for that meeting other than just to discuss things. That's strange to me. This team, I thought they were going to bounce back this year after a weird year with the weird

divisions and the COVID stuff. I expected them to be one of, like, I expected them to do what Anaheim's doing in the Pacific Division and they haven't. Well, we'll see this three games homestand come and go and maybe Jim Benning will have another discussion. Yeah, and Travis Green has had to answer for everything. Like, he's the spokesperson and it's not really his fault. Like, what do you want him to do?

Couldn't agree with him more. And I couldn't agree that, yeah, this has been a long time coming and it still just keeps dragging on. Like, I wonder if Jim Benning every day goes to the arena and puts his like pass card against the little thing to get in. And every time it beeps, he's like, hey, hey, all right. Another day. I want to talk about Sammy Blaze out for the season with that torn ACL. He got tangled up in the corner with P.K. Suban. And we see this a lot, guys.

Reputations. Not the first time we've seen people. P.K. Suban's leg behind another player's leg and said player gets injured. And right away, you think, is this, is this P.K. Suban doing this on purpose? I'm not one to look at the way P.K. Suban plays as dirty. And I've watched a lot of P.K. Suban on the ice. I'll go so far as to call it reckless at times. And I think there's a huge difference between dirty. I don't think P.K. Suban went in there and said, hey, let me kick his feet out and cause him an injury that's going to make him lose his season. But there is a difference between that and saying, I'm just going to go in there, guns blazing.

And if somebody gets hurt, somebody gets hurt. Jesse? Yeah, I agree with all of that. And I think reckless is a good way to describe it. I think when you watch, because we're saying the serial slew footer, P.K. Suban, and like, some of them are obvious. You're saying that. I am defending the serial slew footer.

against the people who are calling him that. There have been slewfoots this season. Like the Ryan Reeves one, you can see his foot kick out. His left leg kicks out. He clearly slew footed him. But I don't think you can then look at that and then watch the Sammy Blaze one and say, okay, he slew foot him. I thought their feet just got tangled.

They clicked. They almost clicked. Yeah. I think at times, P.K. can be out of control. And it's kind of your job as a hockey player. Like you're responsible for what your body does. So if you're playing reckless, it's your fault. But I don't think there's any intention at all in that play when Suban injures play.

Like I don't see any intention from PK. Suban's done that kind of move a few times. And Molly Walker from the New York posted kind of a good article displaying that. But I feel like we get so wrapped up intent and intent in these discussions that we lose sight of like, just because he didn't intend to be dirty doesn't mean that like it's okay. You know what I mean? I feel like we always lose the plot. when we're talking about even like Tom Wilson.

It's like, okay, like just because he didn't mean to hurt somebody, but it can still be something that should be legal. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's like a high stick. You might not mean a high stick somebody, but if you do, you're responsible for your stick. And that's just what ends up happening. But again, as soon as that happened, I saw it was P.C. Sue, I'm like,

oh, here we go. Everybody's going to say, he's slew footer, the serial slew footer that Jesse has now branded him on this podcast. One more thing before we go to break, Dionne Funf retired. I'm not going to, I certainly don't mean this to sound like I'm slamming Dionne Funnuff, but I kind of thought that happened a while ago. I was one of those. Oh, sorry.

I'm going to agree. I don't want to be it. I'm trying to put this in the nicest way possible. But when somebody said, hey, Dionne Funf retired. Dionne Funuff? Okay. We've seen some good in his career. The 2005 World Juniors was huge.

That double hit against the Russians. I've seen it 50 times now since he announced. his retirement on Twitter. But then again, he was on the ice for two of those three goals in that Boston comeback against the Toronto Maple Leafs. And I always remember in 2014 that one game where the Leafs decided not to salute the fans because they were angry at the way they were being treated. And he really got raked over the calls on that one. He dropped the puck at the Leaf game last night. He, according to Pierce Johnson, excuse me, he wants to get into the front office.

Do we see him in a front office role at some point? I don't know. I just, yeah, I, as a guy who dealt with him a little bit as captain of the Toronto Police, I, I just didn't see front office guy, but I may be very wrong. I think we also, I'm, I'm very careful to judge players like GM, ability to succeed as a front office member based on their play. Because you look at, like a guy like Joe Sackick, for example, he's a guy who when you watched him play and heard him speak, you're like, well, obviously he's a G.

yeah, and then it has worked. But then there's a guy like George McPhee, who was a scrappy third line guy who was like undersized but was hitting guys. And like you wouldn't look at that player and say, oh, he's going to be a general manager for 25 years. And here he is. So I think it's, I think I'm always careful to judge.

I think sometimes guys will surprise you. And you can't really judge it based off how they were or how they talked when they were a player. Yeah, you never know. Honestly, I definitely won't pin anybody as anything. anything when it comes to runoff his stuff. It's going to be interesting to see because he says he still wants to let his daughter grow up

a little bit before he starts disappearing for long periods of time into an NHL job. But yeah, big news there, Deonfinoff retiring from the NHL. After the break, we're going to try to figure out how the ducks and the kings are doing what they're doing. And Lisa Dilman from the Athletic L.A. is going to join us to try to explain it because I've got to be. honest with you guys, I can't figure it out right after the break. Okay, guys, so I think we could all agree that looking back, even a month into the

season at our preseason predictions is just a bad idea. Every year, how many times do you look back? You're like, oh, I can't believe I said this or, oh, I can't believe I predicted this team would do that. But I do think it's safe to say that I don't think many people predicted the Kings to be in a playoff spot in mid-November. And more importantly, the Anaheim ducks sitting first in the Pacific. And I think if someone says they did predict that, they're lying. And to maybe help us figure out what the hell is going on in California, Lisa Dillman, joining the roundtable now from the Athletic

L.A. Lisa, thanks for doing this. Well, thanks for having me on. And I would be a liar if I said I predicted it too. And, you know, our editor, Sarah Goldstein would expose me as a liar. Okay. So maybe I'll asked that question. What the hell is going on in California? A couple weeks ago, when the ducks were in Winnipeg, I think it was right around then. I went on a podcast with Jeff Merrick, and I said, the team to keep an eye on, you know, is the Anaheim ducks. I know I cover the kings regularly, but I am seeing a lot of really good things from the ducks. And, you know, the silence on the other end was deafening. It was crazy. I was seeing a lot of, a lot of things starting to come together, even though the results weren't necessarily manifesting themselves.

It's a shocker. I mean, Ryan Gatslap already has more points in 17 games than he did all of last, albeit short in season. He's 36. He looks like he's 26. What do you account for that rejuvenation? Because not only did you mention, I was going to bring up that stat because it is pretty crazy this early on in the season, but he looks like he's having fun playing. hockey again.

Yeah, I think there's some comparisons to be made of, you know, like Tamew Solani. I'm going to give Eric Stevens a plug, who's our beat writer for the ducks. He's been excellent on all things Getslaffin ducks lately. Well, as always, but he, I think he talked to Tammu Salani. And, you know, Tamu coming out of the lockout had had knee surgery and, you know, got like a second life almost to his career. And I almost think that's what, you know, Getsloff obviously didn't have a serious knee injury. but I think he and a lot of the veterans,

and I'll talk about, you know, Anja Kopitar and Dustin Brown later, but they have shown, they've been rejuvenated. I think it's a combination of a bunch of things coming out of the gloom and not playing in front of fans

for the most part of last season. And let's face it, I think there's some sort of magic, magic potion with Trevor Zegris that seems to, you know, infect everybody with enthusiasm. This kid is, this kid is telegenic,

and he's a mile a minute. And I think it's a combination of things to answer your question. He's rejuvenated. And I think the kids like Zegress and Tritian and Jimmy Drysdale are giving him a new life. Yeah, I think Lisa, as someone who covers another Pacific Division team, I've been looking at Anaheim and L.A. as teams that I feel like we're rebuilding the right way. But I guess in my mind, they were still a couple years away from that. And I guess that's because, for one, guys.

like Troy Terry, Trevor Zegrois, like you said, has stepped up more. But also, I don't think I was expecting another, like, run with the core group that they currently have, whether it's the Kings with Copatar, whether it's the Ducks with Getslav. Do you think that this was the plan for the Ducks of the Kings? Or did you think they themselves still thought they were a couple years away from kind of taking this step? Well, I think the Kings thought that they were making slow, steady progress. And I think this was sort of part of the grand plan and things might be expedited. a little bit and the ducks are on fast forward. I mean, it's just there's, there's a level of excitement around that rink that, you know,

I really haven't seen since they, since they got to the conference final, what, four years ago against Nashville is, you know, and they've been out of the playoffs obviously since, or they made the playoffs once and did not win around. So there's, there's just an excitement, but I think, I think this is, this is a genuine shocker internally as well. Talk a little bit about that, though, because you look at the fans, and I was reading your piece and you talked about their upcoming game as the, and I want to quote you correctly here,

the clash of the expedited rebuilds. And Jesse was kind of alluding to that. I wonder sometimes if that's a bad thing. And it just gets fans excited. It gets fans, you know, in a place where they're expecting more than they should when the rebuild really, according to the plan,

was two, maybe three years away. That is a good point. That is a good point because, you know, they'll come back to Earth. there'll be an inevitable downslide, like all teams go through. But I think, I mean, Orange County, I was going to say, the L.A. marketplace, it's important to be, to remain relevant. I mean, Orange County is a big difference from L.A.

But in L.A., there's, you know, plenty of, there's a ton of competition for the, for the dollar, starting for Lakers right on down. And so I think, I think it's not necessarily a bad thing. The fan base is a little bit different. I think they're probably a little more patient. Both fan bases here, you don't have the sort of angst that you have in northern markets, especially in Canada. I think one of the things that's impressed me the most, obviously, Anzay Kopitar has been huge,

but I feel like Philip DeNoe and that acquisition has kind of taken some defensive responsibility off of Copatar, maybe freed him up a little bit to be more offensive than he has the last couple of years. What have you seen out of Dono and how much of an impact do you think that has on Copatara's hot start? I think it's a single, the three big moves they made in the summer, it's a single most important move they did make. And for all the reasons you outlined, the Copa tar is getting a breather. It may not necessarily manifest itself in his, you know, average on ice time. But, you know, somebody, there's finally somebody that can take a face off in the Z zone.

I think you can just see the pressure lift off his shoulders. And I think Popatar, in turn, is helping Philip Dono. I have to tell you, I thought I was a little bit more bullish on the acquisition of the free agent signing than most folks. But it's been probably even, it's worked out better so far than I could have thought. For an individual that, you know, he didn't play all of his career in Montreal, but most of it. But to come into a fresh setting, new teammates, the language difference, of course, his English is terrific. away. But it's been seamless. Like his assimilation has been seamless. So, and the other

point, it has helped, it has really helped spot everybody. Everybody moves down a spot. There's not the kind of pressure on Rasmus in the three hole or, you know, Blake Lazot. He takes, Dono takes on the tough, the tougher matchups and helps Copa tar and then helps the bottom six as well. Lisa, I'm looking at goals a lot per game in front of me right now. Carolina, top in the league with

193. You've got Calgary, Philadelphia, Washington and then the LA Kings. We talked about the very fact that they're competing for a playoff spot might have shocked a lot of people. But the fact that they're allowing 2.47 goals per game, how surprised are you at that stat? Well, I'd be surprised if Drew Dowdy, oh, I'd be surprised if Drew Dowdy and Sean Walker were in the lineup and they had done that. But without those two individuals, that's even more of a shocker that they've been able to

pull that off without those two key blue lineup. And that's where Alex Liddler has really come in and sort of helped, you know, calm. He's provided a veteran presence. He's been a good mentor to his fellow Sweden, Toby Bjorn fought. And I'm really surprised because I thought it would really go upside down, especially after Sean Walker got hurt. They promptly came into St. Louis.

We're playing St. Louis and, you know, allowed four power play goals. But since then, I don't, they've seemed to, well, they have right of the ship in a meaningful way. So it is. I mean, if you look at this defense, you know, and Edler, Edler and Roy have been playing together lately. And that's been a very good pairing. And then, you know, Dornfoot and Mikey Anderson. You know, these guys are like, I'm probably going to screw up the age. I think 19 and 20 or 20 and 21. That's a very youthful second pairing. So and then, but the other thing is the, there's the overall defense that I was talking about where, you know, Philip Deno and Kobe. which are, you know, they just, they're so impactful. We are not going to talk about their goals against average without talking about how good Jonathan Quick has played. He is 36. He's got a 0.935 safe percentage. He's at 5.5 goals saved above average. I just watched a 36-year-old goalie have the best season of his career here in Vegas. I don't think that's happening with Jonathan Quick, but he's looked a lot

better splitting time with Cal Peterson, right? And especially if he can, you know, when you're that age that's staying healthy. And, you know, that's the key right there. But I was talking with goalie coach Bill Ranford, who's been with Jonathan Quick, his entire career, which really says something. And I, this is a few weeks ago. And I started to say, you know, Bill, you're once the man. And you had to sort of readjust your expectations and, you know, kind of recalibrate your

careers. And you went through and you were no longer the guy. And I started to say, how does that experience, you know, help you guide Jonathan quick? And he interrupted me. And he said, hey, Lisa, we're not. we're not there yet. We're not there yet. You know, nobody, you know, he had a good pun.

He says nobody's knocking him off the throne just yet. At that point, I thought, well, okay, you know, he's sort of, it's a great quote. He kind of has to say that, but it's been backed up since since that. And I think, I think, you know, lessening his load, having Cal Peterson in there and, you know, competitor and just split the load, it's sort of prolonged, it's got a prolonged, I think, a quick square too on top of things. It's amazing how quick we put players out to pasture. You know what I mean?

Like you look at both of these teams and we're talking about the resurgence of Ryan Getslap. We're talking about Jonathan Quick. Wow, remember Jonathan Quick when he was an elite goaltender? Are we too quick, especially in this day and age, Lisa, because, you know, there was a point when when a player hit 30, 32, 34, they were considered ancient. They were considered at the back end of their career. But nowadays, it just doesn't seem like that anymore because of all the advancements.

Are we putting players out to pastor just too quickly? Well, yeah, I think that's, you know, and guilty. Guilty here, too. It's a byproduct of society. We're making, you know, snap decisions on not just older players, but younger players. And I can get to that in a second. But I think, I think we are too guilty of that. And even like Dustin Braun got off to a great start at the beginning of last season.

I mean, he couldn't, you know, he couldn't keep it up. And he was, he was joking that, you know, even his kids didn't think he was any good anymore. So his kids are putting them out to pasture. Lisa, I'd like to put you on the spot a little. Which of these teams do you believe in more? And I know you're obviously not covering them both, but you're kind of paying attention and have been watching them, I would guess, quite a bit. Which of these teams do you believe in having that lasting power more so to try to last into this? playoff race. So we're talking just this season, not, not anything beyond. Yes. Well, you,

you are putting me on the spot, Jesse. And I'm going to, you know, it's almost a no win for me. I'm also like a homer if I say the Kings and then all my, I'm back on Twitter, by the way. And my Twitter feed will explode for. All right. Can you tell us why you kind of took a break from Twitter? Well, yeah, I can, I can digress a little bit. I think it's almost like a detox. And or going on a diet, which, you know, my diet hasn't succeeded, by the way, either. But I thought it was important to take a break. You know, it was, I think I found myself going on it and not necessarily, I follow a bunch of different feeds, political feeds, world feeds, you know, financial

news, et cetera. But I found myself getting mad all the time. And I don't know if I'm allowed to say pissed off on this. Yes, you're allowed. We'll allow it. You just did. You just did. We love it.

PG-13 rating now. Yeah. Uh-oh. The sensors will be calling me. I don't know. Like I'm thinking, why? This is August. I'm getting mad.

I should be on vacation and enjoying myself and not being mad at the world. And I thought it was important to take a break. But I've missed following Sarah and Jesse. Well, Lisa, I am at Rob Pizzo, R-O-B-I-Z-O if you want to follow me. No, but I get it. it because I'll be 100% honest with you. The one aspect of my job that I always kind of get told by bosses is, hey, Rob, jump on Twitter more.

But when I find myself in the exact same space as you, Lisa, where I'm getting so angry, that's when I need to take a break. Even if I'm not posting, even just reading it, did the break? Did the break help? Because I've said this before. Sometimes I refuse to believe that someone hates me that much because I don't like the penguin's power play. Like, it never just makes sense in my head, but then I will say something and people are wishing me dead on a social media guy.

I just don't get it. Wow. It didn't help. I think it would help. And the interesting thing is when I left and I didn't really announce I'm leaving and I didn't announce I'm coming back because it's just like, wow. I was really concerned emails and texts. Like, are you okay? And I had to spend like a lot of time answering texts from friends and colleagues, which,

where I'm really happy and gratified. They're concerned. And it was like this hushed tone. Like, is there anything you need to tell me? I'm like, you know, don't worry. I'm all right. Everything's fine. So it was, you know, a good break.

I think I probably won't be tweeting as much, you know, in games as I once did. Sort of, you know, I can actually watch the games a little bit better without being on Twitter. But I think, I think, you know, on a limited capacity, I think it will be a better thing for me and sort of where I'm at. Did you get to answer Jesse's question, by the way? This is all a clever device just to avoid. You're trying to avoid the answer to the question. I would say the king.

I would definitely, I would say the king. Okay, I'm going to put you on the spot too. Uh-oh. How long is Troy Terry's point streak going to go? Let's see. I wish I had my schedule right in front of me. Do you have their schedule? I don't, but we have a magic box.

in front of us. Give me two seconds. So they've got the hurricanes tomorrow and then the Predators on Monday and then the avalanche on Wednesday. Yeah, I think it, I think it ends. By my Wednesday, it ends. Sarah, what do you think? I feel like the canes are buzzing and they're hard to stop right now, especially they have that nothing to lose aspect after they lost their first two games of the season. and now it's kind of like they're vibing and they are a force to be reckoned with.

But Troy Terry, it's kind of like it goes to show that you can't really, like, I don't know, I feel like we are so impatient with younger players and this kind of shows that we should have more patience, right? Oh, I agree. And I was, you actually led me to a point I was about to make the Kings yesterday sent Gabe Vlarty down to Ontario. He's just coming out of COVID protocol, but he'd really been struggling. in quite a bit before he even went into protocol with just one goal.

And, you know, he's going to try and get his confidence back, let him play in all situations. But, you know, the first round draft pick from 2017. And you're right, I think, I think, you know, they have been patient with him. I think there is a tendency to write people off way too quickly. And, you know, we can see what a trade can do for a young player like, you know, Sam Bennett.

So it's, it's, I think there's a. patience is required with not just older players necessarily. Don't write them off too soon, but don't write off the younger players too soon as well. Yeah, but at the same time, you got to figure Terry's, you know, the way he's been playing this season is a direct contributor to how Getslev has had his season as well. Oh, absolutely. You know, I think that's, that's, it's undeniable that it's been beneficial for both of them. And I'm not comparing Troy Terry to Valardi, but I'm just saying how, oh, like, you know,

people are waiting and waiting, waiting for these players to break through. And, you know, like, here you go. It's just one of the best stories in the league this season so far. Well, Sarah's trying to figure it out. We're trying to figure it out. Still can't figure it out. But thanks for coming on, Lisa, and trying to figure out what's going on. What the hell is going on in California?

I can't take that word out because it just doesn't make a lot of sense. Lisa, thanks so much for doing this. Well, thanks for having me on. I look forward to doing it again. Lisa, Delman, read her stuff on The Athletic L.A. about the, and it's right in my lineup here, guys. The Red Hot Ducks and Kings. Didn't think I'd be saying that this year.

After the break, we're going to get to your Twitter questions. We love getting them. Keep sending them. We'll keep reading them. Well, after we just told Lisa and talked about how sometimes Twitter can be very toxic, let's go to our Twitter questions, guys, for the week. We had some good ones coming in. Defrey Joe Met wants to ask about the Trevor's egress misconduct penalty.

So we talked about that Jack Hughes overtime goal where he scores just a sick goal, tosses the stick in the crowd. Everybody goes nuts. We all loved it. Just to recap in case people miss that podcast. Trevor Zegrais does the same thing and gets a misconduct penalty. And not only that, but the NHL's Twitter account kind of put it out as, hey, check out this awesome thing.

Can we all get on the same page of what is cool and what is not? because we're giving people misconduct penalties for celebrating an overtime goal. Yeah, it's a little ridiculous. I don't think there's anyone out there that agrees with that penalty except for maybe the guy who called it. We've talked extensively on this show about the changing of the way hockey players act. And Zegris and Hughes are good friends. And they are part of that new wave. I think we might be seeing it.

We might be for real seeing the new wave of players this generation having a little more fun with the game. Yeah, boo on that penalty. And I feel like it just reminds me of the whole conversation we're having about Cam Newton too. It's just kind of like, why are we still talking about this? Like, it's sports, it's entertainment. It's supposed to be fun. Let's have some fun.

I just think we have to exercise a little bit of common sense. It was kind of like the Matthew Kachuk penalty where the puck was going into the crowd and he just from the bench kind of stuck his stick up to say, like to stop the puck from going flying into the crowd and he gets an interference from the bench call. I mean, he wasn't trying to send a teammate on a breakaway here, guys. Like, I just think we all need to get onto one page. But thanks to Jeffrey Jomet for that one. Ralph Wiggum says, how about why the NHL seems to be resistant on supporting a women's professional league in the same degree the NBA seems to support the WNBA?

I may be way off base. What do you guys think of this? Yeah, I feel like there needs to. to be a lot to happen in the women's game to grow it. But I feel like the NHL supporting it would definitely be a good start. What do you think, Jesse? Yeah, I mean, I think the NHL should definitely be supporting it. I also think that the last year and a half has messed up a lot of plans that a lot of sports leagues had. And I think that they're all still trying to kind of recover from that. And again, here I am giving the NHL too much credit. I think maybe they're trying to find their own footing.

And we've heard like the attendance has not been great this year. I think there are issues that the NHL is trying to financial issues that they're trying to figure out themselves. But once you're back in a good place and you've got the salary cap going up, things like things back to normal sort of. I think it's definitely a big step for this game of hockey to try to build that side of things. It all boils down to them needing one league. The WNBA was one league. And it's easy for the NBA to say, here is a check. go make your league work

when you've had multiple leagues for so many years and if you're a fan of women's hockey and you want to see one player they're in this league and another player this isn't soccer in Europe where the sport is so popular people will do whatever to watch it

you need to get into one league Kim St. Fier said it in her Hall of Fame speech think about how important it is when she comes out and says we need to be one league so we can get support from the NHL otherwise it's just not going to work one more thing

Guys, did you see the Kevin Hayes goal celebration? Spectacular. Oh, yeah, yeah. That was beautiful. Those are the moments where you kind of throw everything else out the window and you just, you think this sports magic. Obviously, he pointed at this guy to his late brother, Jimmy. That's still such a heartbreaking thing.

And the puck's going to bow his son. I just pray for that family. It's a lovely family. And everybody in the Boston hockey community knows them, no matter who you are. They're just the kind of people that would, Hayses would talk to anybody and just have a normal conversation with anybody. So down to earth and it's just such a shame. Jesse, what you think? Yeah, the point I agree with Sarah so much on is, especially lately the last few weeks, like there are a lot of bad things that happen in hockey,

but hockey is also freaking awesome. And moments like that are kind of what, that's what sports are about and that's what hockey's about. And it was just really cool to see. And it, it, it makes you feel good about this sport, which I think we need after the last couple weeks. That wraps up another Wednesday roundtable edition of the Athletic Cockney podcast. Before we go, guys, what are you working on this week? Jesse? I just released a cool story on Jake Lecision, Goldenite's rookie and his father, Curtis Lecision. He talked about how his parents kind of raised him. I got some cool pictures of him hanging out in the Hurricanes locker room. He was playing mini sticks with Zadano Chara

and Mike Fisher when he was four years old. So a really cool backstory about a young player that's kind of making his way into the NHL on the Golden Knights. The second person born in Raleigh to ever scored goal in the NHL. So you love to see that come full circle for this podcast. What you got on tap, Sarah? I have a few things I'm working on in Seattle. That's going to be a big trip for me. Look out for that.

I might be looking at somebody's Jordan's collection. So keep an eye out for that on the athletic.com. We will and we'll probably talk about it next week when we all come back for another. edition of the Wednesday Roundtable, but until then you got plenty of hockey talk to listen to. You got Michael Rousseau's straight from the sores. You got Justin Falk of the St. Louis Blues, joining Sean Gentilly and co-host Jeremy Rutherford on the Athletic Hockey Show USA. So big thanks to listening to The Athletic Hockey Show.

You can follow us on your favorite podcast platform and don't forget to leave a rating and a review. It helps us. You can subscribe to the Athletic Audio Plus on Apple Podcast to get all the bonus content from the entire network. You start with a 30-day free trial, then it's just 99 cents a month after that. And right now, you get an annual subscription to The Athletic for just $3.99 a month

when you visit Theathletic.com slash hockey show. The Athletic Hockey Show continues Thursday with Ian Mendez and down goes brown. I'm Rob Pizzo. For Sarah, for Jesse. Talk to you next week.