The Athletic Hockey Show - Is this the end of an era for the Penguins?

Episode Date: April 30, 2026

Did the Penguins have their last dance with Malkin, Letang and Sid? The young gun Flyers eliminated Pittsburgh in overtime and Max and Shayna dissect the future of the Pens and the Flyers. They discuss the Golden Knights huge overtime win over Utah, and the Habs putting the Bolts on the brink in Game 5. Plus, Sean Gentille joins from Anaheim to tell us if McDavid and Draisaitl can force a Game 7 for the Oilers or if the young Ducks will follow the Flyers and help eliminate two of the best players to ever play the game.Host: Max Bultman and Shayna GoldmanWith: Sean GentilleExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Jeff DometWatch full episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowJoin our Discord Server: https://discord.gg/VTm9VjkFSubscribe to The Athletic: https://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. Hey, everybody, Max Boltman here alongside Shana Goldman for another episode of the athletic hockey show. And Shana, we had a loaded playoff slate last night. Philadelphia Flyers eliminate the Pittsburgh Penguins and what was a fantastic game, Cam York with the OT winner. I have to say for long stretches of that game, it was reeking of this is going to game seven.

And the penguins, you know, I felt like put an onslaught on Dan Vlodar, but he holds strong. I mean, that is maybe the best goal-tending performance of these playoffs so far, single game. It might be, right? Because the penguins definitely had their chances in this. And it did feel like not only were they getting some really in tight looks, but the pressure of the situation too, right? Because as much as the flyers had the advantage coming into this game, they could send the penguins out of this at any point. It did feel like if this goes to game seven, the flyers are suddenly in this whole world of trouble. So it was even more important to like stand tall. And then when you consider like the way the Flyers offense has been in this series.

It's like you need these tight games as much as possible because who's to say if they'll get two goals last night, you are only getting one. So yeah, he, he definitely had a really strong outing. And I think it's a good bounce back. He wasn't perfect last game. I think it seemed like the arm injury kind of messed with him the game prior. So yeah, definitely good on Vladara this game. Yeah, early in the series, I felt like one of the big stories in addition to, you know,

the energy level of the speed. But I really felt like it was just like the Flyers structure was giving the penguins fits. And the penguins did not really know how to play that game or weren't ready to play that game with the Flyers at first. But especially as the game goes, a series goes on. And as the game goes on, you're like, the penguins look pretty comfortable now playing this game.

And you wonder if there's an adjustment that Dan Mews made, the penguins made, if they just kind of found their way into the series. But they looked like a team that if that got to a game seven in their building, like it was very possible we were going to be looking at a reverse sweep, the rare reverse sweep. So for Philly to come out of the game. that I think speaks really well to how they hung in there. And they, you know, I think Carolina was going to be a prohibitive favorite against anyone who came out of this.

I don't know that we're given Philly like a huge chance in that series. But I give them a lot of props for what they did. And who knows? I didn't give them a whole lot of a chance in the Pittsburgh series coming in either. No, honestly, I didn't either because it felt like the Flyers have been playing playoff games for the last, you know, month and a half year. And as much as they do a veteran talent, they also have a lot of young players that you could have seen them hitting a wall at any time. And if they were to drop three straight games to

Pittsburgh to go to game center, it's like, okay, maybe that wall just came up now, which is reasonable, right? The adrenaline runs out. Or, you know, you finally stop playing past, you know, the sum of all their parts, which they've been doing for so long. So I didn't have them winning this series, but they, they own their brand of hockey. Like, they came in, the best thing they could have done in the series was they made game circuses and leaned into it. And I think that just aggravated the penguin. So it's like, yeah, they're not going to be the favorite in this next series either. The canes were a stronger favorite than the penguins from the start. And now the canes are rested and probably getting a lot healthier.

Plus, you look at, you know, the depth of that team, right? They play that shutdown defensive style, but they also have an overwhelming offense. And the flyers really only have one side of that equation. So, yeah, we're rightfully going to take the canes in the series. But the fact that the Flyers are here is such an accomplishment. The fact that they battled through that series to end it in six, I think is massive for them too. It's not just riding this emotional wave that they were doing.

It's adjusting and tweaking and doing enough to keep this season alive, even when the goings got a little bit tough there. Yeah, absolutely. And really, we'll see what happens in that Philly Carolina series. But I'm curious going forward for both of the two teams that were in this series, Pittsburgh and Philly. Like, what does this season mean for how they proceed? Because I think these were two of the few kind of rebuilding-ish teams coming

in, or certainly the Penguins, I thought were one of the few bona fide rebuilding teams coming in. They're now both playoff teams. The Flyers are going to go at least to the second round, and maybe who knows, a little further. How does what happened this season for both Pennsylvania teams affect their future outlook for you? Are they both, do they both still enter next year as kind of fringy rebuilding types, or do you view either of them now as like, this is a team that expects and should be in the playoffs? I'm going to say fringy rebuilding types for both, but like in different directions, right? Because the flyers have surprises. been in the playoff mix for the last few years and then fallen short.

I think management's done a really good job of not being blinded by, you know, some spurts of like success in the regular season to go off the rails. They've stayed on track with the process no matter what the team's done. And I think we could see them, you know, I expect to see a measured approach taken again this off season with that in mind, right? Like they're not going to just say, hey, we made to the playoffs and I'll start adding veterans and just completely fall off. Like that, I don't think that's happening here.

So I think they expect to still be in the playoff race next year and we'll see where that goes. For Pittsburgh, it's a completely different energy, right? Because coming into this postseason, I feel like it could have gone two ways. It was either last dance of all the veterans or end of an era. You tried, you failed. Move on. And it feels like we're getting the latter here. The fact that they extended the series, yes, that's a good thing.

It's better than, I don't know, being swept because then it's like, wow, that really crashed and burned. It's not working. But at the end of the day, they lost in round one. And while they didn't do anything too splashy this season to just start buying up players and, you know, at the risk of the future, like I think Kyle Dubas had a great approach to the season and a lot of moves you see the future of it, right? Like adding Sam Gerard, the Stewart Skinner trade, investing in Chinikov and other reclamation projects, like all of that I see the vision. And they can keep doing that for another year. But I wonder at a certain point if it's like, okay, it did that plus a little bit more aggression to get younger and really turn the page because it's, you know, just didn't work. And if you couldn't capitalize off this season, that was so good, when are you

going to do it? I'm of the mind that they're going to need a really high pick at some point. Like they did extremely well in this past draft, getting Ben Kindle, getting Will Horkoff, you know, two guys who I think probably go higher if the draft is held today. Kindle certainly is going higher than he did if the draft was held today. But I think you just need that top five pick at some point. The problem is always going to be, can you commit a season to that when you have Sidney Crosby? Can you even really be bad enough to have have that. I mean, that's one of my takeaways right now with Sidney Crosby. And like you said, some of these reclamation projects. I mean, I don't think they're getting another 33 goal year

from Anthony Manta kind of thing next year. But who knows? I mean, maybe they bring him back. Maybe they don't. But they've, like you said, they've invested in the Chinnikovs. Elmer Soder Blum is a guy who I covered in Detroit for the last few years. I think he looks like a better player in Pittsburgh. And you saw spurts of it in Detroit, but they've gotten more of it so far in Pittsburgh. And they may be able to keep finding guys like that. So it's an interesting one to handicap because I think they need to have a true lottery type pick at some point to set themselves up for the future. But I think as long as you have Crosby and if you're making shrewd GM moves as Kyle Dubus has continued to make, it'll be interesting because I think they can kind of hover a little bit.

Now, goaltending a question and we'll see what happens with their big core. I'll leave that one for the people who know Pittsburgh a little bit better. But let's move into another series in the East. Montreal and Tampa, another excellent game. This has been, for me, the best series of the first round. Every game is just pins and needles. And once again, Montreal finds away and finds a way through their depth last night, Chana.

Yeah, Montreal, I think, has been one of the most exciting teams this postseason. And I think going into this, we knew like, here's two similar teams, right? Like, it's Tampa Bay, the contender we all know and have seen for the last, you know, 10 years now. And here's Montreal, this up-and-coming team in their second postseason. and they show a lot of stylistic similarities to Tampa Bay. But at the end of the day, it's, you know, one team's a little more battle tested here, experienced.

And also you saw potential pitfalls in Montreal, right? Like they play a little bit looser defensively. And now they're without Noah Dobson. Who handles the shutdown minutes, which allows Lane Hudson to just cook. So you could have seen where things could have gone south from Montreal. And instead, they come in with a ton of jump. They've been so exciting. Even without the big gun scoring, that top line,

And Sirelli has done a great job slowing down that. Sirelli and Gord, both of them, against the Suzuki line, have really stopped them from being the difference that we know them to be. And yet Montreal keeps having answers. They're getting scoring from their third line. Brendan Gallagher comes back into the lineup and scores last night. The fourth line has been incredibly productive throughout this series. And you just see Hudson taking over games at times and Dobish coming up big. I think like the biggest thing out of this that is the biggest surprise, I should say, out of all of this.

is that Tampa Bay's offense has not been really strong at five on five. And that's, that's the key here. It's Montreal shutting them down. I think we would have expected it to go the other way, right? Like, it's just that Montreal is creating more offense than Tampa, and that's how they're in this position. Instead, it's Montreal actually clamping down on a team like the Lightning. The big gun's not doing enough for Tampa Bay. Kutrov's been good, but he has another level. Braden Point has another level. Obviously, they're missing headman. And Vasselovsky, has been fine, but not good enough, not playoff vassi that we know from years past. Put it all together.

They're behind in the series, and it's completely fascinating what they're going to do here because I can see them coming out with just fueled by spite, ready to clamp it down, to just push back against Montreal, make it interesting to game seven. But Montreal going back to Montreal with, you know, with the buzz, with the Jews, of ending it in regulation, especially. Like, I feel like they've built themselves. a ton of momentum here. If you had told me to kind of tell a story coming into this series about how it was going

to go, for me, it would have gone something like this, like the point, Kuturov, Gensel, are going to kind of trade blows and cancel out the Caulfield, Suzuki, Slavkovsky, right? And then it's from there, what do you have? And I like Montreal's kind of bottom checkers, but it was in that middle, your Surrelli's, your Gordes, like, York Strand, whatever. Like, I felt like Tampa had the clear edge there and that they would just get a little bit more from the middle of their lineup than, you know, to tilt the series. Instead, what's happened is I think those top lines have canceled each other or cancel each other out, but not in the way

that I envisioned. Instead, it has been a bunch of guys like Anthony Sorrelli has lived on my Selke ballot in recent years. Yanni Gord and Nick Suzuki are both on it this year. The top lines are canceling each other out by checking it through these first five games of this series. And it has been the depth, you know, deciding it, but it's gone Montreal's way. Texier has been excellent. Josh Anderson had a couple big goals early in the series. Kirby Doc shows up with a huge goal last night. Montreal is showing that not only can their guys down the lineup check,

they can produce in playoff type moments. And the difference has been slight. Every game's been a one goal game here. But it's been just slight enough in Montreal's favor. Yeah, I mean, Doc has done a little bit of everything in this series. And to rebound after making mistakes to getting the trust from the coaches to stay in the lineup and keep getting deployed out there. and he's delivered. That's obviously massive. Josh Anderson loves playing the Tampa Bay Lightning.

Go back to the Columbus years when the Blue Jackets upset, you know, this legendary lightning team. It's Josh Anderson playing disruptor in it. So that's massive because, yeah, we're seeing some things from Slopovsky. He has the big game one. Yeah, we've seen some moments from Demadoff, but not enough. It's the bottom six. And I don't think anyone saw that coming because you look at Montreal last year in the playoffs. And, you know, obviously it's a different team. They're a little bit younger then, too. A little less experience. but it's the top line. It's Caulfield, the Suzuki, it's Lane Hudson, carrying that team into the postseason, and they're the only ones making their mark in round one. So it's definitely encouraging to see that the Canadians are getting contributions up and down the lineup, but obviously

if they're going to move on here, they're going to need more. But you look at Tampa Bay, like their side of the equation on it, and the fact that those lines are canceling each other out, I think it's interesting to see how they've tweaked Kutrov's usage through these games, too, of whether he plays with Point or whether he plays with Sorrelli. And I feel like the Surreli. And I feel like the Sorrelli combination is a little bit more favorable here. And I would just be putting that line out over and over again in game six to try to extend the series because I think they've had a little bit more juice together. I don't think Braden Point has been as noticeable. It's been an up and down year. It feels like every time a game traction, he got hurt again, you know, once he finally got

together after a slow start to the year. But I think maybe just spreading the wealth a little bit would help because guys like Hegel are performing. And I think Gensel especially, he's doing more damage on the power play than even strength, but you need Kuturov to be your guy, and the same is going to go for Montreal at some point. They're going to need Caulfield to score more, but if they can get by one more game with those bottom six contributions and just, you know, use their big guns to cancel out Tampa Bay's best. That's something. And I'm really curious how it's going to look when Dobson comes back because like while forwards and defensemen have different responsibilities, Dobson is the one that takes on these, the heaviest matchups for Montreal.

It's allowed that top six to flourish more. It's allowed the top four on the back end to flourish more, just having that separation of deployment. And I think there's more on Suzuki's plate because he doesn't have Dobson on the back end, because it's a weaker pair in those minutes. So I wonder how much too that'll help open him up moving forward. Absolutely. Let's get to the late game from last night, too, because this was another one back and forth.

This has been a good series, you know, another one last night back and forth. when Utah does not score on the four minute power play down a goal, I'm thinking, all right, well, that was your chance. You had a great opportunity and you didn't get it. Then Dylan Gunther scores. Then they take a lead. Vegas comes back, ties it late, and in a double overtime game, it's Brett Howden on the winner. Vegas has unkillable vibes right now.

Yeah, absolutely. They do because it feels like Vegas, every time Utah gets some momentum these last two games, Vegas has crushed it. And that's kind of what happened in game one, too, right? Like, we saw Utah come out with the ton of speed third period. Vegas looks like the experienced team. They start forechecking more. They win that game.

And the last two games, it's these great comebacks by Utah, a ton of resilience. The power play for Utah has been a killer. And yet they're managing, right? It feels like the shifts after the power play, which should be so deflating. They're actually coming up bigger than expected. And they're starting to take a little bit more control. Those two, two-on-ones from Utah on the third period. Vegas can't offend them.

they don't have the speed on the back end to manage it either. And Utah just keeps, you know, extending these games to overtime only to fall short with shorthanded goals of all things. You know, to take so many penalties is risky enough because while Vegas hasn't had the best luck on the power play, I think they're giving them too much time to get it together. And then they're not building enough momentum from their own advantages. So it just feels like Vegas, as cliche, it is. They're the battle tested team. They've been here before and they look like it.

Everything, there's so many peripherals in this series would suggest that Vegas should be down or should be vulnerable, right? I mean, the goal tending question, not going away. The two C question, like, you have this big expensive addition in Mitch Marner and you're playing him out of position as your two C because Tomas Hurtle hasn't been right because you don't have William Carlson, whatever. Like there's so many things that if you told me them before the season or before the series even, I'd be like, yeah, I just don't see how it's going to, you can't have all those things going wrong and find a way. But they are doing just that.

They're finding a way. That's what experience does for you. And, you know, I don't know. What do you think? Mammoth stretches to seven. It's going to be a home ice. I mean, that building's been rocking. I could see them stretching it to seven.

I'm hopeful that they do because I think that would be more interesting. And I think Vegas, you know, the foot speed issue and the goaltending issue is what opens the door to it. But the Golden Knights are getting hot at the right time. Like Jack Eichel wasn't as noticeable last night, but his game four, I thought was just fantastic. And now Dorfiev has found his scoring touch. And even Hurtle makes a great play to set up Dorofiv. And I feel like he's had a pretty rough series of times and kind of an underwhelming regular season now.

And it goes back to all his postseason. And I don't think he was good enough for them. So it feels like the pieces are coming together for Vegas to just end this in six. But I could see Utah, you know, being resilient once more, dragging it out. and then I don't know who would win in that game. I still am leaning Vegas, even though I picked Utah at the beginning of the series. And I think these overtimes might be a problem too,

because at times Utah does look a little bit ghastier. And it's just, you know, you have to have the stamina if you're going to play this rush game to do it for potentially 80 minutes, 90 minutes. And, you know, that's one thing going into it. That could be a problem. Dorothea and Barbiev to me are two guys for Vegas who they just kind of seem to find the net. And if those guys are going, I think I like Vegas's odds against most teams.

If you can keep those guys quiet, you give yourself a chance because you know who you need to kind of isolate on otherwise. But Dorofiev's on there. They're a hard team to beat. All right, let's now stay in the West. And let's go to a series that continues tonight or sorry, tomorrow, the Edmonton Oilers and the Anaheim Ducks. Let's bring in Sean Gentilly,

who's been covering that series for us at The Athletic. It's tonight, buddy. Bad news. I don't know what day it is, Sean. Me neither. All I know is that there is a, hockey game in Anaheim tonight and I flew 11 hours yesterday to get to it or whatever it was. So yes, it is it is today.

All right, Thursday night. How about that? We'll go with that. My issue is growing what day I'm in more so than what they're in. It's that time of year, brother. It happens. The Oilers, you know, they fight rousing start to that last game. They may show a lot of fight.

They're going to get up off the mat here. My question for you is, do you feel like they can repeat this enough time? because we're talking about it in the Utah-Vegas series where there's enough kind of indicators on Vegas that should be scary and they're finding a way to do it. There's a lot of scary indicators for the Edmonton Oilers too. Anaheim's found away more times than not, though, to stave those off. Yeah, I think if you see the Edminton Oilers,

it's such a cliche, but if they're playing with the lead, I think they have a chance. And I think that sort of dictated the run of that game. a couple days ago where they get three first period goals. You get vastly pot goals in with a big one to start to start things off. And Ingram's, you know, playing well down the stretch in that first period. That's huge. And I think that kind of colored everything that came after it.

Because the five-on-five numbers, though, for the rest of that game, were not good. I mean, it's an instance of Edmonton's, some of it, to some degree, it's Edmonton playing with the lead and trying to, you know, avoid disaster. and pushing Anaheim to the perimeter. We saw a lot of that, but also I think mixed in there is the fact that Anaheim is a more effective a five-on-five team

than they are at this point just across the board. So I think there is some degree of sustainability there. I think they played well, even though some of the shot metrics and the expected goals don't quite reflect that. And I think the biggest thing

that they found in that game was two scoring lines. Like what we'd seen in the first four games was, you know, it was dry sidel, it was podcoles, and it was Casperi cap, and then five-on-five, and not really anything else. Well, Noblock throws that into a blender, moves dry-sidel back up with McDavid, which, you know, paid off to some degree because they did connect for a five-on-five goal there. But, man, it seems like they stumbled on something with Nuggen Hopkins and Pod Colson and, and it's in, Newton Hopkins, Pod Colson, and then Zach Hyman, my God, I almost

forgot Zach Hyman's name. That's where we're out here. So they have two lines rolling for the first time in this series. And I think that's a big deal. And that's the single biggest reason. I think they could, you know, extend this a bit further. So Jackson McCombs becoming a big name in this series. He's been crushing the matchup game against McDavid. Part of it's because McDavid's hurt.

Part of it is that he's also really good and really good in all three zones. And it's a totally different realm of matchup than we've seen, right? Like they're going with someone who actually plays in all three zones instead of just trying to slow down McDavid, which you're not going to be able to do. From my viewpoint, I thought that he was much better in those matchups on home ice. And now series shifts back to Anaheim, Anaheim's back in control,

but it's Drisell-McDavid. What do you think we're going to see tonight from that matchup? I think the matchup game's honestly been kind of interesting. It was just across the board. It was something that Quinville wasn't super interested in at the start of it. Like he wasn't going out of his way to change things. things in when they didn't have last change, which is kind of funny. And I think it is, it's not a

coincidence that, you know, in those Anaheim games, I think you saw, you know, you saw them, you saw them walk into a couple, a couple solid situations. And it certainly starts with Lecombe. Someone asked Drysidal about him a few days ago, and they framed it as, you know, comparing them with McCar, right? I think that was like sort of the implication is Lecombe, you know, that kind of player. And Drysettel didn't mean it as a knock. Like he wasn't he wasn't he didn't he wasn't trying to you know neg Jackson Lacombe. But what he said was he's a different player than McCar because McCar you have to be you know completely aware of where he is at any given moment because of the offensive stuff. In Lecombe's case, which I said he's like he's like he's like he never makes the

wrong decision like he's in he's in the right spot all the time. Yeah he's got he's a great skater and He's got a ton of skill, but also, like, he's got that, he's got that, that, uh, the necessary bit that that allows him to be in the, in the right place at the right time. And I think that kind of reflects itself, yeah, for, for sure, and what we've seen from him in all three zones, absolutely. There's just a kind of a magic factor to him on some place, too. I mean, the defensive one where he whips the stick around to break up the two on one. It's like, how does, how does he do? Now, Drysidle got one over on him early in the series as well, right? Sure. On the blow by. But Jackson, McClellan. It has. It has. It has.

Charmed. Like whatever. That goal, by the way, like, he played some bully ball there and he had Leo Carlson hanging on his back too. Like, it's so like, that's the way it goes. That's Leon Dreisidal. Like he's done it. He's done it to players as good as Jackson LeCone. That's for sure. But it's the fun part of the series to me is that, you know, a lot of these names, especially when we're talking about West, right? And there's some of these guys that the broader hockey public is not seeing on a nightly basis, right? Jackson Lecombe's an Olympian and we don't really see him in the Olympics, right? So the, and a lot of the young. Ducks especially have this kind of going for him right now. Leo Carlson has an element of this. Beckett Seneca has an element of this. Cotter-Gote because of the goal scoring, I think people were a little more aware of. But that's the fun part is this is this Ducks Cores real introduction to, I think, the broader NHL fan base. I think the fun thing about the Ducks is that they pop. Like, they're good for, they're good for casual fans. They're in there, and they're, and they're good for people who may be watching them the first time. Like, you watch that team, you know who the good guys are, right?

Like, you know who you know who their best players are. Carlson plays aesthetically, aesthetically fun hockey. Cudor Goethe, like, we love the goal scoring totals, but also that guy is a shot production machine. Like, that's where it starts with him. The amount of pucks that guy puts on the net at any given time are wild, right? And you have Lacombe, yes, he's positionally sound, but also he's doing, he is doing McCar, walk the blue line,

you know, stuff like that. Beck at Seneca, Beckett Seneca, he's, you know, my God, he's, he's a chaos machine out there. Like, he is so, he is so fun to watch. And when that kid grows in, he's already a good player. When he grows into his body in two years, three years down the line, he's going to be something else, right? So you know, you know who the stars are when you watch this team. And I think that's got to be fun for people who are just getting exposed them for the first time. Like, like, we've, we've seen him.

We got to watch these games. But even me, seeing, watching them for 11 days now or however long it's been, I'm, I'm enjoying them on a different level as well. There's something about a series, too, with that. I mean, it's, you see them against not just the same guys, the same all-world guys. And that's very fun. 100%. Now, they're, you know, I think, it's tough to blow a 3-1 lead. I think, I think that's good for them.

I think that's good for them right now. I think there were incremental changes like we talked about earlier, like incremental moves forward for Edmonton in that last game that, you know, from the outside, if you're rooting for the ducks, maybe you're getting a little bit nervous. It seemed like Edmonton was closer to getting right in that last game than they've seen in quite some time. But yeah, it's been fun.

Do you think they have a lot of pop because this is a total chaos series, but no defense? Like, are we going to see semi-competent defense tonight? is tonight the night that we see it because it feels like, you know, Lecombe's defending well. And we've seen, I think Jake Wallman came up with some pretty big plays last game. But generally speaking, it's a lot of scoring and so. I thought, okay, so my thought on the last game, and we mentioned this before, but shot clock expected goals, like way, way, way tilted in favor of Anheim in that last game, despite the score. I do think that there was some to go, especially after that first period, there was some amount.

of chaos that was lost because Edmonton would have been a complete disaster at the net front. Bouchard, Walman, you know, to a lesser degree, maybe darnel nurse. They're making, they're making huge high-profile mistakes, like pretty consistently. Some of them bit them, some of them didn't. I think what we saw from them, you know, in the second, third period, last game is that, okay, we're going to at least force them to the perimeter, maybe cut back on some of the rebounds. I think Connor Ingram was better with his rebound control in that game, which is kind of what killed him in game three. So is this a chaos series?

Absolutely. Is this the chaos series of the first round? Absolutely. But I think, you know, there's been incremental gains made by Edmonton of it if they're trying to cut back on it. So that's the thing I would I would watch out. I would watch out for there. Don't necessarily look at the shot totals. Look at how many are screened.

or tipped or whatever because that was what was killing. That was what was killing him in that three-game stretch where they lost. One way or another, Sean's getting on a plane tomorrow, Sean. Where will that plane be heading? I haven't booked. I haven't booked anything yet. The only thing I know is that the flight will be long and there will be at least one layover because that's the world we're living in right now.

All right. No prediction from Sean, but we'll let him go on that. Great stuff, Sean. Thanks for doing this. Ducks seven, Oilers 5. There's my, there's been. All right. There we go.

There we go. We're going. We're going. Love it. Thanks, Sean. See you guys. All right, Shane. Let's wrap with this.

You did a great story earlier this week on the athletic and we can stay with this series to begin it because the story was what young NHL players can learn from their playoff opponents, a superstar playoff opponents. And basically the conceit, and I love this, is we have some kind of guy, some series that pit a young emerging star against a guy who looks like a perfect. world version of what they could become. Is Leo Carlson ever going to get to Leon Drysidal's physical size? Maybe not. But in terms of the cerebral play, the two-way force, the ability to kind of break out a wicked shot despite being potentially one of the better playmaking big-bodied centers in the world, there is some aspiration to what Leo Carlson can look at Leon Drysidal and find.

Yeah. Carlson will definitely have to put on a little bit. a lot of bit of muscle if he wants to compete with the frame of Leon DrySyel. I feel like it's almost like I hate using the word underrated because it feels like it's me saying like, I know something you don't. But I feel like his size isn't that doesn't get enough hype because Drysidal's strength is such an important part of his attack. And I think that is what Carlson should be learning from this series is what you can do when you use your frame to your advantage. And it's funny because that that game winning goal that Drysidal comes in powers through the offensive zone past Carlson, past LaCome, was what kind of inspired me to do this story.

Because earlier this year, I was going to do a best, worst case scenario of Leo Carlson, and Drysettle came up as one of his early comes, and then as the ducks went through it in December, and they went through it, and some of the two-way play dropped, you know, there was a little more separation in similarity score between these players at the same age. So I kind of just put it to the back burner and then you see Carlson get back on track. But here it is in this moment of this is one of the things that separates these two players. And this is something Carlson can learn. So even if Carlson and the ducks take out the oilers and upset them in the first round,

there's still elements he should be studying. And that's a big part of it because you look at so many zone entries from Leon Dries Idol, the way he just goes in with such power. Or he's protecting the puck with one hand, holding it pretty far away from Zolting. body and using his other arm to hold off defenders, it's something I think that could take Carlson's game to the next level because Driesaw really has become this all three zone threat. If he put, if he killed penalties, he'd probably get a more Selky ballots. And I think that's a big reason why. So you see the makings to becoming this total superstar and he has the skill set to become it to be

the next dry cell that's tough because that's a top three forward in this league. But if he could become that true franchisor MVP caliber center, and I think he does have the raw tools to do it, he should be studying dry saddle, see what he can emulate from him to get to that next level. Yeah, and that's what I love about the premise of this is like we always talk about guys to need to get into the playoffs and learning, you know, the Emmys are valid things, learning how to win, learning what it feels like to play in these tight games. But it's also just a really great opportunity to play against the guy that you basically want to become or should become or hope to become.

And getting to see, like, getting to feel. I mean, he was one of the guys on that play that we talked about with Sean, that Drysell just bodies through, right? Well, now Leo knows what that feels like and how hard that was for him to defend its lived experience. Let's go through some more of these. Like you had a few really good examples here. Ivan Damedov in Montreal and Nikita Kutrov, obviously, right?

Like, Nikita Kutrov is one of one. But when you look at Demidav's playmaking and the way that he can kind of control a game, he can draw defenders in, this is what Nikita Kutrov is at, and this is what Ivan Damedov can become. Yeah, like Nikita Kutrov doesn't always get the same credit as McDavid or McKinn, because he doesn't play the game with a ton of pace,

but he's someone that controls the pace of game. And it's so impressive how he does it. He's so methodical. He's such a smart player. And he's such a strong player, too, how he lifts sticks and gets defenders out of the way to get the puck in the first place. And the way he just starts operating from there, right? You never know what he's going to do.

He's so deceptive. He can be slipping passes to everyone. He can be taking the shots themselves. And you see the difference in the series, even though we're not getting top-level Kuturov. You know, there's that powerplay goal in what was it game four. Kutrov, I think, had six puck touches leading up to the goal. He's creating so much space. Everything's going through him. And yet, you still can't defend him properly. And that's something, you know, we're not seeing Demidoff take over on PowerPlay 1 just yet. And yes, Montreal has a lot of other threats,

right? Kohl-Kahlfield tends to be the guy there. Slavkovsky's had his moments on the power play. You can't forget about Nick Suzuki. So it's going to be a shared responsibility, plus you have in Hudson, but it's not like Tampa Bay's power play isn't completely loaded either, right? Like over the years, and Kuturoff still feels like he's low-key, the quarterback of everything because everything runs through him. And the other thing that I think is super noticeable is the difference in how much they shoot the puck, right? Because Kuturov, we all think of him for his passing, rightfully so, but what makes him so dangerous is you have no idea if he's going to move the puck or if he's just going to rip a shot. And he has a great shot when he chooses to use it.

He's shooting the puck way more than Demadoff, which is probably the biggest gap in his game right now. You watch him in the regular season and go, okay, look at these amazing cross-team passes and look at how he's drawing all the defenders to him and Oliver Caput and there's all this space in the world when they're playing together. Slavkovsky he was setting up. But he doesn't take enough shots. And at times this year when Slavkoff was on his line and he's had a ton of high danger passes this year, you saw Demadoff opening up a little bit, becoming more of a dual threat. But in this series, he's not shooting the puck nearly enough. And that's something that will add less predictability to his game because as much as you don't know when he's going to pass it, how he's

going to pass it because he's just creating passing lanes themselves all shift long, it would be nice to see that he actually might trick opponents completely and shoot the puck himself. I think that's where you see like getting a little harder to play against and adding a little bit more dimension could take his game from good to great. Yeah, absolutely. Logan Cooley was an interesting one here because I don't know if it's the skating and the fact that he played for the NTDP or what. I've always kind of thought of him on the somewhere on the Jack Hughes continuum and maybe a little bit James Hagan's in the same vein as these like really great skating forwards that have come out of the program. Smaller side.

But I think, you know, and Cooley and Hagan certainly I think go to the net a lot. But you had a different comp on him and it's Jack Eichol. And the more that Cooley grows into a well-rounded player, I buy this. I mean, Jack Eichol's on my Selke ballot this year. I won't say where just yet. I don't know that Logan Coo is going to get to that level. But he is going to be able to be deployed in absolutely all situations. He's a tough player.

he's a fast player. He just has a ton going for him. And you say he can learn more from Jack Eichol. Yeah, like as is, this is a great player off the rush. I mean, he had more scoring chance off the rush this season. I think according to like all three zones tracking at five on five. And, you know, he scores a ton of goals without shooting the puck as much. He's thrived on the power play. And that's all stuff Jack Eichael did in those early years. The difference is Jack Eichael just kept leveling up. And it was tough to see at times in Buffalo, right? Because the team was so bad. But he started playmaking a little bit more moving the puck, so it's not just that he's, you know, transporting it up the ice, but he's setting his teammates up consistently in the offensive zone. And he got better defensively

in Buffalo, actually. But when he went to Vegas, he completely leveled up, became this all-situation threat. He's, you know, used in shutdown minutes. He kills penalties. And that really goes along with league trends, too, of having more offensive players in short-handed situations. And you go, okay, Kooley's skill set is similar to that. And you can see the similarities there. And you can see how we could follow that path, but it's a little bit different here. Like, if you're Logan Cooley and you become the next Jack Eichol and you become this well-rounded threat, you know, you still have to make sure your offense pops enough. And that was something when we did player tiers this year, the criticism of Jack Eichael was,

does he not prioritize offense enough? And you go back to the year, he wins the Stanley Cup. I think he should have won the Con Smyth because he was the straw that stirs the drink. He's setting up everybody, but the goal score always gets more credit here. You go fast forward to last year's postseason. he's matched up against McDavid, and he had to play a little bit more defensively. And in the early goings of this series, too, he's getting a lot of matchups against Kooli, and he's having to defend that speed instead of playing to his strengths.

Well, game four, Jack Eichol, you see what makes him so special. And I think that was that he still has the offensive chops to be the guy, but you have to keep that balance. And that'll be really important for Kului to keep in mind. Even if your role changes, your natural gifts lean towards this, you know, offensive game. So keep leaning in. I had so much fun with this. I mean, I was trying to think of more that I could throw at you when we did this segment, right? But like a lot of them are kind of already there.

I think Jake Sanderson is already kind of at the level with Jacob Slavin and has surpassed him offensively. And I was trying to think there has to be like a Buffalo defenseman that we could do something with with a Lindholm or a McAvoy on Boston. But the profiles don't really overlap perfectly. It's much more of like a puck moving kind of flavor, I think, to the Buffalo Defense Corps. But I would read 10 of these if you have 10 more in you because I really enjoyed it. I hope we get more in round two. Yes, absolutely. I really, I was like, Natchez and Panera.

I'm like, ah, nature's already, you know, like coming together. And Sanderson already moves the puck more. And, you know, could Owen Power be like Hamphus Linholm? Like, oh, I might be stretching it. And Dolish and Vassie because they're size. I was like, you know what? Let's stick with the three. And let's see if anything comes up next round because it does feel like we had it,

the similarities, like team wise, you know, Keynes to Ottawa and Lightning Montreal. So having the player to player, I really hope there's more of these. Great piece. Highly recommend everybody check it out. Before we go today, Shane, I just want to wrap on the other game tonight, Minnesota and Dallas. And this is one that, you know, from the beginning, I thought it would go seven. I want it to go seven.

I don't think every single game has been as white knuckle as Tampa, Montreal. But certainly this is the series that we all had circled coming in. Really, we've had circled for months because we saw it coming with the playoff format. This was likely going to be a two, three. I think for the most part, it's lived up to it. You just probably want to see a little more from Dallas's stars. Yep. You want to see more from Dallas to start specifically at five on five.

They're getting outscored 11 to 3 at five on five. And I think Robertson is the one forward you can kind of take out of the conversation like you're doing it. And that was true in the regular season too because last postseason Dallas is five and five offense drives up. Starts the year it's the same thing. And Robertson is the one that kind of was breaking through the most. And in November and in December you were seeing it. That's how the Dallas stars got back on track of five on five. It was Jason Robertson.

Okay. Now everyone else needs to step up. Like, White Johnston can be one of the best scoring chance generators on the Dallas Stars teams. Got to do it more at five on five. Miko Ranson has not been noticeable enough at five on five. And you're seeing weaker shots get through and just, you know, Walshead's doing well. He's stopping what comes his way. But I don't think they're challenging him enough.

I don't think they're forechecking enough. I don't think they're driving to the scoring areas. So the bottom six isn't going to do it for Dallas. With Matt Duchyne playing in the top six, you don't have enough scoring pop in that bottom six. and that's where the Hintz injury really crushes them. So I think it's up to the big guns to be the big guns. And we know, you know, Johnston and Branson and have that big game ability. Robertson's been doing it all series.

This is the moment to do it. And the Brodine injury, I think, opens the door to it a bit because Brodine and Spurgeon don't generate much offense in their minutes, but they've done a good job all year kind of keeping things as calm as possible in their minutes. So without him, the whole depth charts out of sorts. So this is the star's moment to take advantage. advantage of it, but we really haven't done it so far. I'll say this.

And like, it's easier said than done. This Minnesota team is loaded with stars. They can generate great offense. Getting Zuccarella back is huge for them. Loaded. Quinn Hughes, Brock Faber, Matt Boldie, Carol Caprizz off. Like enough said, if I'm the Dallas Stars, I kind of want Jake Otter to steal me at least one game in this series for what the contract is.

He's in that group of goalies who I think are, you would call the bankable goalies. But that's what I need from someone in that year. I need them to steal me a game. probably on the road. I mean, this one is on the road. But that's kind of what you want ideally is you want them to go get you in a series, go steal me a road game and we'll do the rest. Tonight's the night for Jake Ottenger.

If it's coming, it's got to be tonight. Yeah, I think sometimes the Ander stuff gets overhyped, like, oh, he doesn't have the playoff pedigree. And I think he's been fine in this series. Yes. There's also been some weak goals. And I think last game, it's the McCarran goal. You're like, okay, it just looked like, Antenjur wasn't confident enough in that

situation. It means plays it. Like, that's when he should have stopped. So you can't have that. that you can't afford it, especially when you're not getting goal support, right? Like, that's the biggest problem for the Dallas stars right now. But at the end of the day, you need your big guys to be your big guy. So if Bransonen can't come to play the way that they need him to, you need it that Ander

keeps, you know, as many pucks out of the net. So the stars can get away with a one-nothing or a two-one winner, you know, something in that situation. He has to be their guy. And for all of the reasons, right? Like, the coaching staff didn't pull him in game one when that could have happened. Like, I think they've done a lot to make sure, like, hey, you are our guys. guy, here's the confidence you need.

So now he has to reward them with that with a really strong game because Wollstead's been good. He hasn't had to be fantastic, but he's been the better, you know, the better more reliable goalie at times in the series. Like, you're right. Sometimes you just need your stars to be your stars. Yeah, I mean, both of them. I don't think Ottinger's been bad in this series. I don't think Ranton's been bad in this series. He's gotten his points.

I mean, they haven't been at even strength, but he's gotten them. But when you're paid like a building block, when the team is clearly geared around you being able to do what you do. And I think that that you have to deliver. I think that's just as true of Ottinger as it is in Randenant tonight, but it should be a very good one. That is going to do it for us. Thanks for listening to this episode of the athletic hockey show, some big games on tap. I'm sure we'll have much more for you next week on those. Tomorrow, though, is the Prospect Series.

Scott, Corey, Chris and I are going to talk about the World U18 Championships and spoiler alerts. There is a lot of drama there. A lot of the big guns out of that tournament early. We've got some draft talk to as well. So that'll do it for us. We'll talk to you then. Bye.