The Athletic Hockey Show - Islanders stave off elimination vs. Hurricanes, Panthers’ season on the brink against Bruins, Oilers one win away from advancing

Episode Date: April 26, 2023

Rob Pizzo, Jesse Granger and guest co-host Jeremy Rutherford look back on the Islanders outlasting Carolina and forcing a game five, the Stars Jake Oettinger shutting out Minnesota, who can't seem to stay out of the box as Dallas takes a 3-2 series lead and we welcome Daniel Nugent-Bowman from Edmonton to talk about the Oilers big game five win over Los Angeles in what we feel is the best first round series to date.Pizzo, Granger and J.R. look ahead to Florida hoping to save their season tonight in Boston, Seattle, without Jared McCann looking to take game five against the Cup Champion Avalanche without Cale Maker and the guys discuss Ryan O'Reilly's impact on the Toronto Maple Leafs, Laurent Brossoit out duelling Connor Hellebuyck in the Vegas/Winnipeg series and Akira Schmid coming out of nowhere to even the Rangers / Devils series at 2 games a piece.Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowGet a 1-year subscription to The Athletic for just $1 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshowStart making your financial dreams a reality with Chime. Get started at http://chime.com/nhlshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. What's going on, everybody? Welcome to the Athletic Hockey Show. The Wednesday roundtable edition and playoff edition number two. I am Rob Pizzol from CBC Sports, joined as always by Jesse Granger in Vegas. You're tired? One year off of the playoffs and you're exhausted? 14-hour travel day yesterday.

Oh, that is just gross. Winnipeg was a blast. Getting there sucks. Getting home from there sucks. While I was there, excellent. I had a great time in Winnipeg. Well, speaking of traveling, we're doing this show. And our boy Russo is, I don't know, about 30,000 feet in the air.

He's traveling right now. So he could not do the show this week. So Jeremy Rutherford was kind enough to grab a microphone and join us on the show. How are you, sir? Wow, wow, wow. He doesn't have Wi-Fi and Delta there. What's going on? You imagine him doing a podcast from an airplane?

You know what I mean? Imagine being the person that has to sit next to him during rapid fire. The person next to him would go, you heard Rob say rapid fire, right? Like you've been talking for 12 minutes on this topic. But yeah, all right. Today's rapid fire is going to be a true, legit rapid fire. You watch, we're like, that's the way you do it, Russo.

But all right, we'll give him a pass. That's when the plane leaves, much like Jesse, 14 hours. I know you're kind of complaining. about it last week, too. The flight from Vegas, getting from Vegas to Winnipeg is a pain of the ass, isn't it? Not easy, not easy. There are not a lot of direct flights to Winnipeg. None, actually.

But from anywhere. I made it. I made it. You made it. We're glad you did because we've got just a boatload of stuff to get through, guys. And I should mention, second half of the show, Daniel Nugent Bowman from the Athletic, who covers the Oilers. I don't know if you guys have watched every single second of that series, but if you

have it, go back and watch it all because it's just been just incredible and, you know, some of the best players on planet Earth doing what they do. But we're going to go through each and every series in this first segment. So guys, let's get to it because like I said, a lot's happened since the last time we spoke. One thing that hasn't happened, we haven't seen a team eliminated. Every series is still on the go. I thought by this point, at least one team would be packing up their gear. And the other thing we learned this week is absolutely no lead is safe. And if you don't believe us, just ask the Kings and the Lightning. But we're going to start with the Islanders. and the hurricanes because the Islanders were the first team in these playoffs to stave off elimination last night with a three, two win in rally.

And the road team wins again, guys. I mean, all 16 teams have at least one road win in these playoffs. That's just the second time that's happened since expansion in 1967. I know it's home ice advantage and you fight for home ice advantage. And I'm going to be a huge, you know, overall. reactionary fan here, but is home ice advantage dead, Jesse? Not any more than it has been, but I don't think it ever was really alive. I remember last off season looking, or sorry, last postseason, looking at the stats over the

last like 20 years. And it's basically 50, 50. I mean, and there's no sport in like of the four major North American sports hockey, home ice means the least when it comes to the playoffs. I think in the regular season, it matters more. And it's not because the home crowd gets you pumped, it's because you're not flying from city to city. Your body's not going through jet lag and all that. I think during the playoffs when everybody's at their best and both teams are flying back and forth, I don't think it matters a lot. I think the best team wins. Every team will tell you, every coach will tell you, like, I remember asking Bruce Cassidy going down the stretch, like how important is home ice? He's like, would you rather be at home in a game seven? Yes.

Other than that, I don't think it really matters that much. And so far, it's looked like that. What do you think, Jeremy? Yeah, and aside from the travel guys, you know, I used to ask Ken Hitchcock that same question probably 10 years ago, ask him about the home away in the playoffs. And he said, well, all the barns are the same now. Cookie cutter, so you don't really have that much of an advantage. But, you know, it's kind of cliche. Everybody's talked about that distinction.

But Jesse, aside from the travel, what else do you think? I've noticed covering the blues for years and years. You know, you play on the road, you play that north-south game. You tune everything out and you play a better game instead of what you try to get away with at home with the East-West play. Well, I mean, I cover a team that was literally significantly better on the road this year than they were at home. And the Golden Knights have a pretty good home rink. I mean, they've got one of the loudest rinks in the NHL and they were significantly better on the road. And they mention we think we play simple. And I also think certain teams are built to play on the road better. The Golden Knights being a good example. They, the Golden Knights like to wait for the other team to make a mistake and score in transition.

And I think when teams come into Vegas, they're playing that simple or. direct game and they don't make those mistakes. Whereas when Vegas goes into home buildings, the teams are trying to make more plays, trying to make fancier plays, trying to play with the crowd, and suddenly you're making mistakes and getting caught. So yeah, I totally agree with you the style of play. When you're on the road, teams keep it simple and find ways to win. People will point to line matching too, but now more than ever, and I find it's almost every year getting worse. Even that road coach, if he doesn't like the matchup that's out there, those guys are out there for the face-off win and they're off.

You know what I mean? And like we're almost seeing it, I don't want to say to a fault, but I mean, game one of the Lightning Leaf series, Sheldon Keith made like 12 changes in the first minute and a half of that game because he wanted, you know, and that's a team with home ice, but I don't know. I just, I'm with you guys. It's huge. Don't get me wrong.

If you ask a coach, okay, do you want to play game seven at home or on the road? They're obviously going to pick at home. Is it something you want to die on a hill for in those last few. games of the regular season to get. I don't know if it's as important. Yeah, and also with matchups too, I think you got today's game, you have more lines that can match up against the other team's top line. I noticed in 2019 with Boston, obviously they had some great offensive players, but you had the ROR line that we talked before we started the show here, Ryan O'Reilly's line, and you also had the fourth line of Steen, Sunquist, and Barbasheff. They could defend Boston's

top players, too. So I think you got more options, which gives you a little bit of flexibility on the road. the last thing I'll say on this is I was just up in Winnipeg. If an if an environment can win you a game, that one would have won you the game. I'm talking it like I cannot say enough good things about how loud and just insane that building is. And the Jets win 0 and 2. They did not win a game in that building. And by the way, I think they're like 0 in 6 in their last six games with the whiteout going on up there. So that just shows you that no matter how wild the crowd is.

is how loud it. Like that you cannot have a better home ice advantage than that. And they can't win a game up there. So it just shows you. Speaking of a wild, there's going to be two times in this show. I'm going to bring up a topic of a goal being scored after the puck hits somebody in the face.

In this game, Sebastian Ajo sitting at the side of the net, the puck hits him directly in the face. Before it even hits the ice, Brock Nelson, who by the way was wearing a full mask, full facial protection. Bats it in.

Ajo had to go get stitches, ended up scoring later on in the game. But I've seen weird goals before, and I've seen players get hit in the face before. I don't know if I've ever seen one where it doesn't hit the ice before it's in the back of the net. Is that one of the strangest goals you've seen, Rutherford? Yeah, and they had the same situation in a Blues regular season game this year. So if you're going to count the one that we're going to talk about later in the show, that's three pucks in off faces this year. They need to put a category in NHL.com for goals off face and so getting these guys credit for this.

Or get it in the contracts for in the clause. I'm sure the agents will be jumping all over this. The GOF. How many GOF does a guy have when he's negotiating this free agent contract? Double bonuses for goals off faces. Yeah, it was, I mean, the, the concentration it takes to bat that puck out of the air off of Aho's face is incredible. And like you said, the funniest thing I thought was the guy who didn't get hit in the face who scored the goal is wearing the full face shield.

They should have had those switched maybe on that play. It's pretty crazy that the NHL has the rule that they won't allow the guys to wear them unless they're hurt. That's like you can't choose to wear one. If you just said, I'm going to wear a face shield. They'd say, no, you're not allowed to. Like, what are we doing there? But, yeah, I mean, like I said, great concentration to follow that, to track that puck

off the face into the air, bat it into the net. Sorokin's just like, what the heck is going on? Sorokin is what's going. How about all? That's adding insult to injury. Not only does think a puck in the face,

but it goes in the back of the net. I just, I laughed. Like I said, I've seen a lot of strange goals. I've never seen anything like that. So Carolina with a three two series lead. Another team of the three two series lead.

Dallas Star shutting out Minnesota. Jake Ottinger, we've been singing his praises all year, Jesse, I know you always want to talk about the goalies. First shutout of these playoffs, proving your point all the time that goalies aren't that important, especially in the playoffs, right? But here's the one thing I want to talk about, guys. I'm talking about power play goals.

The Minnesota Wild were sixth in the NHL this season in penalty minutes. And you had Dallas had the fifth best power play in the NHL, which is a recipe for disaster. And in the playoffs, no team's been more penalized than Minnesota. And Dallas has scored nine power play. goals in the first five games of this season, or excuse me, the series, if they keep getting penalties, this thing, this thing is over. Isn't it Jeremy? Yeah, I think so. I think that it was talked about last night that Minnesota is just not capitalizing on the power plays that they are getting, and they're not getting a ton, but you had three chances last night

and don't get back into that game. I think, though, that that game, and we'll talk about it, but changed with that Felino hit so early on, it just felt like they were behind the eight ball early. As soon as he goes out as soon as they score on the major penalty. And then later on, Minnesota does not capitalize on its chances. So Pete DeBoer said it after the game. He said that we knew coming into the series that they were the most penalized team, one of the most penalized teams in the league. And Dallas is jumping on it with a great power play. I mean, it's not Edmonton Oilers-esque, but I think that Dallas doing a great job. My second favorite thing in this series is for sure the Pete DeBore versus Dean Eveson post game matches.

It is incredible. Someone on Twitter, I wish I could give them credit, put it like a compilation of it just back to back, like them, like Pete saying they take the most penalties, then Yveson saying, well, they've got some big guys. They're going down pretty easily over there. We don't dive. And then it goes back to Pete. And he's like, well, if my team took the sixth most penalties in the NHL, that's

probably what I would say too. Fantastic. Fantastic. I cannot get enough of the coaches going back and forth in the playoffs. It's as good as it gets. That's my second favorite thing. My first favorite thing is playoff Jake Ottinger. This guy takes it to another level.

Rob said, we've been singing his praises all season. He's at a different level in the playoffs. I'm officially ready to say, playoff Ottinger is a thing. In the regular season, I think he's a very, very good goalie. He's not quite up there with Vasilevsky and Chesterkin and Sorokin. But in the playoffs of the 219 goalies in NHL history to play at, least 10 playoff games, 219 of them. Jake Ottinger ranks first in save percentage. 945 save percentage. By the way, he's 6 and 6 in the playoffs, which tells you the Dallas

is not getting him enough run support. But he has been unbelievable in this series from start to finish. It's fun to watch when he's in the net. The wild, obviously the penalties are killing them, but I just don't know if they're going to be able to get enough pucks by Ottinger to win this series. No, that was a problem for the wild this year. They didn't score a lot and they'd go through a lot of streaks. You know, Mike Russo wrote about it that it just got in their heads, I think, where they didn't score goals. And so last night, you get the power plays. They don't score on those. Five on five, can't score there. And then Ottinger just makes it a completely bad matchup for them because he's been so good. I mean, if they score one goal in the second period,

maybe get one early in the third period, maybe some doubt starts creep in Dallas, Oddinger, but I think that he just held the door shut and he's been terrific in this series. I was watching the game the other day and just to see his dad up there trying to get through, grind through those last few minutes of the game. Pretty special. Jesse, probably know that feeling being a goalie. But he's been terrific and he's going to be, you know, you hate to use that term X factor. But Dallas, with the way the power play is clicking, with the way, you know, the second, third line, those guys stepping up. I think you put Audinger on top of that. I mean, this is a team that could make a really long, deep run. I think that's a really good point because I know we

love to give athletes credit for being clutch at clutch times, but sometimes a clutch time is not allowing that 3-1 goal. It's all about momentum, right? You allow a goal to suddenly your team is only up 3-1 as opposed to 3-0. It seems like that's not necessarily well. You know, they still have yourself a two-goal lead, but Ottinger was just so clutch last night. You mentioned it. We got to talk about the Falino hit on Radic Faxa. And you mentioned, the coach's duels. I mean, we heard Everson talk about like, he didn't move at all.

And our guy, um, suspendable offense guys. Jesse. You know what? I think the five minute major covered it. Um, I, like I don't think he needs to be suspended.

I thought that, uh, Paul Bissonette did a fair. I don't know if you guys were watching the, the same broadcast, but I thought he did an incredible job of breaking down exactly why that need to knee hit happened and, and basically showing that.

that while, yes, and you should be penalized for hitting the thigh to thigh, knee to knee, whatever you want to call it, because you have to control your body. It wasn't malicious. He wasn't intending to go knee to knee. He was trying to go shoulder to shoulder. And he turned at the last second and he just missed his shoulder and all he got was leg. So I think that the five minute major was, in my opinion, enough of a penalty for that and probably shouldn't go any further.

What do you think, J.R? Yeah, I don't think it's suspension. And I like what you said about this and that. I think he described it perfectly. And also, I think it was with Dave Jackson, the studio also, where he said, look, you know, it can be a five-minute penalty without being malicious or thought to be a suspension because a knee-to-knee hit's going to draw a penalty every time and it doesn't have to just be the minor. So he's not sticking his leg out. He's not extending his leg, Felino, to hit Fax and take the knee out, but still that collision has to be somewhat preventable.

And it's tough in that situation, the way you see the play happen and develop. But, you know, the five-minute major, I agree. with Jesse that probably takes him off the hook for any type of suspension there because he paid his due last night. All right. So that series also sitting at three games to two. The Kings and the Edmonton Oilers. Oilers with a 6-3 win last night.

This team was within a hair of being down three games to one. Here we are talking about the being up three to. What a turn of events. I mean, when they fell behind three-nothing in game four, you thought, okay, this is really, really bad if you're an Euler fan and suddenly they find themselves in the driver's seat. Like I said, we'll talk to Daniel Nudjitpomen about this a lot more in the second half of the show, but a couple of things I want to get your opinions on guys. Jesse, we always start with you with goalie topics. The decision to go back to Skinner after you're getting yanked in game

four, your thoughts on that one. It's the right decision. He's the best goalie on the team. and I am always anti, like a lot of people like to say, pull the goalie to get the team going. And people will argue that it worked, that they came back when they put Campbell in. I could not disagree with that notion more. You know what would really catch the team's attention? Benching Connor McDavid.

Would that not shock the team more than pulling the goalie? Why don't you do that? Because it'd be stupid to take your best player off the ice. So is it not stupid to take your best goal? Goli off the ice, it is stupid. None of those goals were skin, I mean, you could argue, like, it's on the border, but there weren't any horrible goals by Skinner. He's your best goalie. Despite it working with Campbell and them coming back, I think they would have come back with Skinner in the net. I think it's smart to go back to your best goalie. He's been your best goalie all year.

Those three goals didn't change that. So yeah, I agree with the decision to go back to him. I had disagreed with the decision to pull him. That's well said. I agree too. I think that, hey, it worked with Campbell. Sometimes you make coaching decisions to pull a guy, and it worked, and then you'd go back with your talented goalie, and they did that with Skinner. You know, we'll talk to Daniel about this. I'm sure he wrote a great column at the Athletic today about the decisions that Woodcroft's making.

And look, I covered this Blues Minnesota series last year where Evison went back and forth between Talbot, and he waited too long, I think, to make that move, keeping Andre Fleury in net. And this year, he did the same thing early in this series going to Andre Fleury. That's a bad goalie decision. What Woodcroft is doing here is just genius. Gets Campbell in, gets the job done, goes back to Skinner, and Skinner turns in a good performance last night.

Face goal number two. This time, at least this is paying the price, and you end up with the G on the score sheet. But, yeah, Evan Bouchard's point shot right off Zach Hyman's face and in. A little bit different than the previous one we talked about. But this one, I feel, made me wince more. slow-mo. It looked kind of painful, but this is right now, I guess, what the momentum in this series, everything kind of bouncing the Oilers way. Your thoughts on this one, J.R.? Yeah, no,

it's nasty. And I just got done reading Eric DeHajek's piece on it. And I can put myself in Eric's shoes. He's in the press area, and he sees Hyman sitting there. And he said, we just kind of wandered over to him. You have to talk to him, right? When he takes a puck off the face like that, it's just amazing. Like we can talk about these players and all their injuries. You know, we talk about the knee on knee just a minute ago. We can talk about a number of different scenarios of these guys put themselves in on the ice with this fast game. But pucks off the face, guys, that's got to be number one in terms of, I think if I took a puck off the face, I'd be walking out of the rink with a little strut.

Yeah. I'm that guy. I wouldn't be walking. I'd be unconscious. That's a thing. No amount of training can make you stronger in the face. There's no, there's no, like, training. purpose or exercise is going to make you be able to take a puck off the face a lot better.

But he just took it, smiled, laughed at all he said afterwards was I'm just glad Bush didn't get all of it. Like he didn't, you know, hammer it as hard as he could. What do you think, Jesse? Yeah, the way I view it is the greatest power play in the history of the sport just found another weapon. You've got to worry about McDavid on the left circle. You've got to worry about Drysad on the right circle. And you've got to worry about Zach Hyman's face in front of the net. They've just got weapons everywhere on this power play. There's no way to stop it. It is unbelievable how good this power play is.

To the point where when you're watching the, I can't ever remember a team where when a penalty happens, I literally look at the score and go, oh, so it's three to one. Okay, well, it's four to one now. It's over. Like, they are going to score. And when the Kings kill a penalty, it feels like the most miraculous thing that's ever happened. Like, it's a game-winning penalty kill every time they kill one.

it's so impossible to stop this power play. It's so much fun to watch. Last night's game was kind of a, I mean, it was still pretty entertaining, but compared to the rest, it was kind of a stinker, I guess, because this series has just been must watch. Like, it's, it's been the best series going so far. And Jesse, you know exactly what's going to happen. It's going to be McDavid, you know, probably making a pass. It's probably going to be dry-settled in front of the net. And that goal last night, that's exactly what happened. And L.A. you know, isn't within three or four feet of either player. So these guys, you know, they know what to do. everybody in the building knows what's coming and these guys are still able to pull this off.

So but to your point about Hyman, yeah, can you imagine the coach before the game? He says, listen, let's, listen, let McDavid beat you, let Dryside'll beat you. They're going to do that, but we can't have Hyman score off the face again. That's the X's and O's going into that game. Eight for 14 with the man advantage in this series. And we'll talk to Daniel about the line shuffling that we saw Woodcroft do yesterday. But I do want to mention this. So Evander Cain's goal in the first period was the,

first oiler goal in these playoffs with Leon Drysidal on the bench. 14 straight goals. He's at least been on the ice. He hasn't necessarily been, you know, on the score sheet front, but on the ice. Just, that guy's just incredible. I know we love to talk about Connor McDow. But the dry sidle is just absolutely incredible. Two more games tonight, guys.

We could have an elimination tonight as the Boston Bruins with their 3-1 series lead are only going to get better because it looks like Bergeron's going to be back in the lineup. Let me do advance to the second round for the seventh time in 10 years. One thing that kind of cut everybody's attention, you both cover teams on a regular basis. The first thing you do when you're looking at line rushes during the playoffs is you start looking at who's on what line. Tyler Bertuzzi, not Marchand on the left wing with pasta. And then you have Marchand on the second line with Charlie Coil and Nick Falino.

Now, Jim Montgomery did kind of say, we want to test out and evaluate different mixes because because we kind of know what those two guys play like. We don't necessarily need to practice it, but I wonder if little gamesmanship may be going on here at practice. J.R., we will start with you on this one. Yeah, no, I know Jim Montgomery a little bit. He was an assistant here for a couple of years in St. Louis. And just what a, you know, just a bag of riches here.

I mean, could you imagine you're driving to practice thinking about these line combinations and, you know, Bergeron coming back? Well, should I drive the Ferrari to the practice? Or should I drive the Porsche to practice? It's just amazing. Mix and a match, and it's funny that he comes out and he says that, well, we kind of know what these guys can do because we've only seen it happen for the past, you know, decade. Yeah, I mean, this team is so, like I was watching the Bruins game the other day and they showed a graphic on the screen that said, Bruins depth scoring in this series. And the names are Taylor Hall, Tyler Bertuzzi and Jake DeBrusk.

And I'm like, are we really going to call that depth scoring? And then you look at the roster and it's like, well, I mean, those are the depth forward. Like this team has star players playing depth positions. Bertuzi was such a good ad at the deadline. I love what you do it in Detroit. He's so good in front of the net. And like he's perfect. Like you're always looking when you've got as many stars as Boston does.

Like you're always looking for can we put a guy who's not one of those stars on one of our top two lines? That way we can push a star down the lineup to give us better depth and still get that same production. And Bertuzi is the perfect example because he drives to the net. He doesn't just go to the net and be an oaf in there and take hits and deliver hits. He's got fantastic hands. I think back to that game one, the power play goal by Posternak that Bertuzi in front wins that stick battle

and goes behind his back without even looking feeding Posternock for that like slam dunk goal. He's so good in front of the net. He's the perfect guy to plug in with two skilled players and just let him go do the dirty work. and he's going to score a bunch of goals because the puck's going to find him there. I just really like him as a player. And you know what's interesting about that, guys, is that when I saw Bertuzi was going to Boston there at the deadline, it was like, okay, he's a star, he's going to be plugged in with stars, and he's going to fit. And not that it hasn't worked in New York necessarily.

You know, they've lost a couple in this series. But, you know, when you get Teresenko and you get Kane, I think you really do genuinely wonder, is that going to work, but you don't have that feeling in Boston. Right. He's just that piece. And I know it's unfair to give the team that finished with the greatest regular season record in the history of hockey another piece. But when you're a GM at the deadline looking for that piece to help you get, you know, go deep in the playoffs, he's been fantastic. I've been singing his praises as well.

So we could see the Boston Bruins head to the second round. Colorado and Seattle, that's not going to happen at least tonight because it's a bit surprising that Seattle's given the defendant. champs a run for their money. What isn't surprising guys is just how they're doing it. They're doing it in the most Seattle cracking way ever, 11 different goal scorers in these playoffs. They only have one player with more than one goal in Jaden Schwartz. And Jared McCann still hasn't scored. It's just scoring by committee with this team. And they're, you know, you joked about what we know what the Edmonton Oilers are going to do on their power play. We knew what Seattle was going to do. we knew how they got themselves into this playoff spot.

And I think they're frustrating the abs a little bit. Jesse. Yeah. I mean, when you look at this Aves team and you compare it to the team that won the cup last year, the depth isn't as good. Like, they're down the lineup,

they're plugging guys in and it's just not, they don't seem as complete as they did a year ago. And Seattle is, like you mentioned, that's the perfect team to take advantage of that. Like if there's a team in these playoffs, where you say, where's the depth going to hurt you at Seattle? Because they don't have a top, a scary top line that you've got to match up against. They just send the same line over the boards

four times in a row all game long. And they, they skate straight at you. They hit you in the mouth. And then it just feels like you can't breathe. Like it's usually you're playing against the oilers. You're like, okay, we made it through the dry sidle and McDavid shifts. Now we can take, we can take a breath for a second. We can maybe try to get some chances of our own. Whereas Seattle, it just feels like you never get that breath. Like they're constantly hounding you on the forecheck. They're constantly pressuring you. They may not have the elite skill to make you pay like efficiently,

but they just get so many chances because they're constantly on you that eventually a goal is going to go in. And I mean, it's working for them. To be honest, it reminds me a lot of the first year golden nights. Yeah, I agree with you guys. And it's the same thing they've been doing all season. And I think that's why obviously they've had the success they had. And it goes back to the conversation.

had a little bit ago, not particularly to the question of winning on the road, but that's the type of team that you need to win in playoff hockey where they're just coming at you. And maybe you don't have the star power. Look, some of these, aside from a McDavid and a dry saddle, some of these teams might not be winning this postseason with that star power, but teams like Seattle are beating the defending champs because of what you said, just coming at you wave after wave. I had the pleasure covering Jane Schwartz. He was unbelievable in that 2019 run for the St. Louis blues. And he doesn't have to be unbelievable in this series because of the depth that they have. So doing a great job. And I'll mention another former blue. I apologize for all the blues

references. But Vince Dunn, here's a guy that they lost in the expansion draft. You know, the blues were considering moving Vince Dunn, but couldn't get more than a third round pick for him. He goes instead in the expansion draft to Seattle. And he's mentioned in the Norris conversation. You know, we're not talking about a finalist there, but to have a guy who gets picked up in the expansion draft, even in that conversation, tremendous. So they are definitely getting the job done and giving Colorado run for their money there. I'll also say he hasn't been very good since he got to Seattle, but Philip Grubauer against his former team is showing up in this series.

Like, this is the best he's looked since he played for Colorado. I don't think the Aves players were expecting that. So that's, I mean, that's a huge boost for Seattle, a guy that, like, that's been their weakness for the last two seasons is in net. And Grubauer's giving them really good goal, goaltending right now. We got to talk about the McCar hit on Jared McCann. I'll say this. I understand he's not a dirty player.

He never has been. I understand his explanation. If you saw the hit, he thought the puck was going to come down and he was going to battle for the puck. All that doesn't matter. In my opinion, it was a one game suspension. Here's what I don't understand. We go from that hit being a major to a minor to a suspension.

Does that not make everyone involved look pretty ridiculous? J.R. 100%. And Shane did a great job talking about this process. You know, I think it's a good thing what they did a couple years ago, and I think you guys can agree with that, giving the referees on the ice the ability to call the five-minute, take a look at it. But yeah, we've seen several times in these playoffs where it's gone from a five-minute to a nothing or it's gone to a two-minute, so on and so forth. And, you know, it just doesn't seem like everybody's on the same page. And then to add the extra level of then

going to a suspension from a car, it totally looks like everybody's not on the same page. So, you know, I think we're going in the right direction in terms of, you know, giving the ability to look at the play and find out what's going on. And obviously, you know, in-game, real live action, you're not able to say, okay, well, when player safety gets a look at this, you know, they're going to probably decide that this is a penalty. So this is the call that we need to make on the ice right now in real time. So it's kind of impossible for everybody to be on the same page, but it just looks like everybody has differing viewpoints of what's happening here. And I agree. It should be a one game suspension. You know, the penalty should have never got dropped.

Yeah, I think what we're seeing in terms of like, JR, you mentioned, like we're seeing a lot of five-minute majors called and then reversed to nothing or to two minutes. I think what's happening is the referees realize there's only one way to review this and it's if I call it a five-minute major. So I'll just call it one. then we'll go look and we'll see. So I think they are, because of the replay being instituted, I think they're much, much, much more likely to call a five minute. Whereas before, when it was like, if you call one, it's a five-minute major, I think 90% of these probably wouldn't have been called five-minute major. So they're just kind of leaning on that replay like, yeah, whatever, we'll just call it a five-minute majors and then we'll go look and see what it is.

We saw it all year. They did it all year. Automatically, is that a major? And they call it a five-minute major strictly because they're like, well, now we could take a look at it. Right. And, and kind of cover our own asses in the situation. But this year, like I think, and I forget me, I forgot to write down who the referee was or the two referees were in this game, but it makes them look real bad. Like they said this is not a major.

And then the league deems it a suspendable offense. I just, it's, had they called it a two-minute penalty and then you get suspended, we've seen that all the time. You know, they get one look at it. They call it a two-minute penalty. It's a minor. and then they look at it, you know, the Department of Player's Safety says, no, no, this is spendable

feds. But this, this kind of, I just heard the clown music in my head as it was going on like the teet, like I just didn't get it. Yeah, it should have been a major. I mean, that was the odd part of this whole thing was that they, that they reduced it. I agree with you when you said McCar's explanation makes sense. Like, but when I watched it, first thing I thought was like, oh my God, that's a dirty hockey play.

Like, holy smokes. It kind of reminded me a member. I remember when Dale Hunter did it on Pierre Turgeon, at that time was the biggest suspension in HL history. Now, that's a little different. I'm not comparing Kail McCart to Dale Hunter in any way, shape, or form. But it was like, play over, no puck in sight, and you just crunch him along the boards. But yeah, he'll, he's gone for one game. Yeah.

And then this goes back to what we were saying earlier. I mean, if you, I realize all the situations can't be compared to one another. But look at the Flino hit last night. So that stays a major, right? five minutes and he's kicked out. And we're saying, we think that he won't be suspended. So, you know, McCars gets reduced. He gets the one game suspension. Felino stays a five minute major and might not get suspended. Yeah. It's all just the domino effect. All right, guys, three games tomorrow. The Toronto Maple Leafs are on the verge of punching their ticket to the

second round. As our producer Jeff Domet wrote on our lineup, wait, what? I mean, it's just, I can't believe we just said that after that just ridiculous comeback on Monday night. If I could tell a real quick story, I play men's league hockey on Monday nights. And of course, I live just outside of Toronto. So everybody's watching it on their phones in the dressing room. Everybody's going nuts. And it's 4-1 as we're heading on to the ice. Few minutes into the third period, most of the Lee fans have kind of said, okay, we don't

need to worry about keep it up with this one. There's a sports bar above where I play. and if you go to one corner, you can see kind of the TV. And at one point, the referee during a stoppage skates over. Then he skates by their bench and says, hey, guys, it's 4-2. And skates by our bench. Hey, guys, it's 4-2. We continue playing a couple minutes later.

Hey, guys, it's 4-3. Hey, guys, it's 4-3. And we thought, oh, wow, this just got interesting. Again, stoppage of play. He's keeping us up to date. Every stoppage he would skate over to the corner of the ring just to get, you know, an actual update on the game. And then during our game, the other team scored.

I see the referee talking everyone in the ice. And suddenly both teams are cheering and high-fiving each other because the Leafs had won in overtime. That's how I experience that comeback. Obviously, I watched it later on when I came home. But you talk about exercising demons. It's usually the other way around with the Leafs blowing that third period lead. How big of a win was that, Jesse? Yeah, it was huge.

It is setting them up for the most devastating first round loss. last long time. I mean, it's a three to one series lead. I mean, it's definitely setting it. Like, when I see Leafs up three to one and I see they're on the verge of of the second round, the first thing I thought was, are they? Like, are we sure that? Because to me, when I see 3.1, I think, man, this is going to suck for the Leafs. But seriously, though, this team has looked really, really good. I mean, all the talk about the top four guys not scoring and then they play a hell of a third period. And, lead them back.

This team looks the best it's looked in the playoffs in a long time. This story is going to be fun to follow as long as it lasts. Jesse, first of all, delete your Zoom. We don't want to hear comments. I don't even know if people outside of Toronto could handle that. That would be something. And just my own quick anecdotal story, I was actually at my son's 10-year-old baseball game,

and it was 4-1, leaves were down, and all of a sudden a couple innings go by, and I check the score and it's 4-4. So just unbelievable. And hey, I got a touch on Ryan O'Reilly here, the former Blue. You know, I tweeted the other night when he scored that goal with a minute left. You know, that alone was worth that first round pick. And you can't win the series until you win that game.

You know, since then, what a turnaround it's been for the Leafs. And granted, the next, you know, game later in the series, you fall behind again and you have to come back. But this is what the playoffs are about. This is what builds teams. This is what these moments are about. So hypothetically, if the Leafs are in the second round, they're drawn from what they did in the first round. It's just, it's just building upon each game. And that's what the Leafs are doing. And like Pier wrote today, they're doing non-leaf things. I think it's fun to watch.

I'm actually pulling for him unlike Jesse there. Well, like you said, you know ROR. Right. How big is he not only, like obviously he's come up with, his play on the ice speaks for itself. But how big is he for a team like this Leafs team as far as a leadership role goes in the dressing room at practices, in. meetings. I mean, we're not privy to that. We don't get to see that, but he's got to be huge for this team. It's huge. And listen, I'm not going to tell you anything you probably haven't heard or read somewhere, but Ryan O'Reilly from the moment he came to St. Louis from Buffalo, he was on the ice 45 minutes before practice. He was on the ice for an hour after practice. He had young players

Robert Thomas, Jordan Kairu sticking with him, you know, grabbing pucks out of the net, fishing them out, and they would just do drill after drill after drill. And then when you talk to players about what O'Reilly means in the locker room. Just the leadership is phenomenal. He knows what to say. And obviously none of us have been in that Leif's locker room. But I can picture even those superstar players sitting around on the intermissions, wondering what's going to happen.

You're down two. You're down three. And you look over and you see Ryan O'Reilly. Maybe he says something. Maybe he doesn't. But you just know that that calmness is there with him. And you're going to do whatever you can. And just like it was written in the athletic a couple days ago,

you know, Ryan O'Reilly, when he scores a goal like that, or he makes a play, or he wins a face, that's so instrumental to a victory. The reporters who were at practice watched him practice that 45 times two days earlier prior to him making that big play in front of 19,000 people. None of this has been a surprise. I think it was a perfect pickup for the Leafs and he's paying off. I'm not rooting against the Leafs, by the way.

I just find the whole thing amusing. I honestly think the longer it goes, the more fun it will be. So I'm all for the Leafs winning in the first round. I think is Toronto being in the playoffs makes the playoffs more fun. I was just trying to get the least fans on you. What's that Twitter handle again, Jesse? Just want to throw that up there? Jesse Granger underscore.

I couldn't get just the Jesse Granger. Some guy stole it. I've got an underscore at the end. Okay, guys, next up, Rangers and the Devils tied two games apiece. I know these two teams are geographically closer than any other series in the playoffs. And we talked about home ice before, but it certainly hasn't been an advantage in this one. Home team, O and four. I don't know about you guys.

The first two games, I picked the Devils in this series. And watching those first two games, I thought, okay, you know, we talk about the importance of home ice, whether it's important or not. Playoff experience to me jumped out so much in those first two games. The Devils look like a bunch of scared kids. You know what I mean? Who are finally invited to the big boys table. Hasn't really been that way in games three and four.

Your thoughts on what we've seen through the first four games of this Hudson Bay battle. Jesse, we'll start with you. Yeah, I think you put it really well. I think that the Rangers had the edge early in the series just based on they were ready for the moment a little more. And now as the series has gone on, I think that's kind of evened out. And you're starting to see a really talented Devils team that is playing to its potential. And you know me? I like to talk about goalies.

I'm going to go to Lindy Ruff's decision to go to Akira Schmidt in net because that's not an easy choice. to make. And like that, like, so Schmidt was their best goalie this season. If you look at, it wasn't a huge sample size, but he was their best goalie. But he's also young and you've got veterans in net that you trust. And to go away from Vtec Vanichek and to go to the young kid and it's worked brilliantly, by the way, is is a gutsy, gutsy move. And I just think for a coach that we talked a lot about this year because of the chance

of the fans calling for him. in the year and then apologizing to him later. What a job, a coaching job, he's done this season and in this series. I just am really impressed with everything rough's done. Here's my shock face that Jesse went to the goalie. I know. Yeah. And you're filling in on one show.

We've been doing this for two years or Jesse. He could find any way to transition to goal technique. We could be talking about a wedding. And he'd be like, well, yes. But did you know that the third usher from the left was a goalie? Oh, that's great. No, I think that, and this is something that we could have spent some time with Daniel on too, is, you know, look at New Jersey. They were the biggest surprise in the NHL this year and why.

They got a lot of great young talent and that talent developed and it showed up. And, you know, it didn't. And maybe there were some nerves in the first couple games just like Jesse alluded to here a minute ago. But, you know, granted, it's only a couple wins they've put up and we don't say that they've grown up and all of a sudden they're ready for this. but I think that it was a quick turnaround for them and kind of learn that they need to play the style that made them successful all season long and where I mentioned Daniel and Edmonton in this

look, you got to figure out what the playoffs are about and I think Edmonton's done that. We saw Tampa Bay do that several years ago and we've seen other teams do that as well and I think it's going to take some time probably big picture for New Jersey to do that but at least for a couple games they got back to doing what they do well. We've spent a bit of this show talking about deadline acquisitions that have really panned out well.

You got the Rangers with Cain and Teresenko. Ryan O'Reilly, we talked about, where the hell's Tim O'Meyer in this series? I mean, he was the one who you talk about missing pieces was supposed to be such. And we heard Timo Meyer's name on every single trade board leading up to the deadline. He just has not been doing what I think a lot of people, myself included, expected him to be doing. J.R.? Yeah, I haven't really seen much from him in this series. And that's tough to swallow because he was probably the biggest ad at the deadline, right?

I mean, we can talk about some of the other ones. O'Reilly obviously has been a great fit for Toronto. I know St. Louis had some interest in Timu Meyer. Obviously, five or six teams around the league did. New Jersey gets him and you think he's going to be that difference maker, especially come playoff time with that big body and what he did with the sharks in a couple different playoff series. So I think that maybe you got a series.

that's nodded like it is and the young players are stepping up, you know, you can look at it as a positive, look at it the other way that if he does come through, you know, he can be that difference maker and perhaps win them this series. Yeah, I mean, he definitely hasn't been what they'd hoped. You look at this series. So like we were talking earlier about the Cracken, they've got 11 different guys that have scored and they're not getting their goals from all from one place. The devils are the opposite. Right now, Jack Hughes has three goals. The rest of the New Jersey Devils all combined have four goals. And nobody has, I mean, there's four guys with one goal and then Jack Hughes with three.

He's carrying this team offensively. They need more guys to pitch in. Now, you're not going to score a ton. You're playing against Igor Shasturkin, but they have got to get contributions from down the lot. These two games, going to MSG and winning them were huge. But at the same time, I don't see that as a sustainable way to win in the playoffs and go on a deep run. Like, they've got to help Jack Hughes out. And Jack Hughes, you could almost argue.

isn't playing as we've seen him as good as he can play. You know what I mean? As much as he's carried this team offensively, there were games during the regular season where I thought, wow, he's living up to that potential. He just hasn't had a lot of help, as you mentioned.

So that series tied to two games apiece. And we're going to wrap it up with the team that Jesse follows that you got to hear that great chant that you put on Twitter. You're a backup for Laurent Brasw and boy, the backup won, didn't he? beating his old team and now was a chance to bump his old team from the playoffs.

Vegas with a 3-1 series lead over Winnipeg. You talked about the the atmosphere in Winnipeg, but man, that video just made me laugh. Yeah, it was great. The Winnipeg fans were great. They were taunting him throughout the game. They were chanting just broswa, briswa. They were chanting, you're a backup while he beat Connor Hellbuck twice, leaves Winnipeg 2 and O in his old building.

It was so funny talking to the guys after the game. When I walk into the dressing room, Brasua got the headset on and he's doing like a radio interview. And Petrangelo is like behind him, like patting him on the back while he's doing the interview, just congratulating him. And I go up to Petrangelo and I was like, could you guys hear what they were like, could you make out what they were chanting on the bench? And he looks at me and he goes, oh yeah.

He looked like a starter to me tonight though, right? They were all having fun with it. Brasw was like, oh yeah, I could hear the chance. It's just fuel to the fire. It was a lot of fun. They had fun with it. The Jets fans are fantastic. But Bersois's been very good in the series, and I wrote it in that story.

By every statistical measure, he's outplayed Connor Hellebuck, which is astounding. I mean, going into this series, I thought the Golden Knights are going to have a hard time with the Jets. I think they're the better team in most areas, but Connor Hellebuck's going to be so good. He's probably going to gole you a few times. and he just hasn't been up to his normal standard for whatever reason. He just has looked a little bit off. Even in the saves he's made, he's looked off balance a little bit. He just doesn't quite look himself.

Got to give the Golden Knights credit for making him off balance and getting guys in front of the net and moving the puck well to not let him stay on his angle. But they have neutralized the Jets' biggest advantage in this series. And then the other part of it is the Jets are so banged up. I mean, you lose Josh Morrissey. That's the best player on the team. you're you're you're already down nick eilers who we all thought was going to be able to play and hasn't been able to get on the ice so you're down him you lose morrissey that's a huge hit to a team that i mean they're their blue line is is not great they they lean heavily on morrissey so now

that he's out there in trouble and then last game mark shyfully goes out um he had a breakaway brisw made a huge save i thought that was the biggest play of the game um to not let that crowd get even more into it in the on the first shift of the game a breakaway and he makes to save, but then Shifley goes down, look like he hurt his wrist. This team is on life support right now. Coming back to Vegas, they've got two days off to maybe lick some of their wounds, but the jets are so banged up. I thought Vegas was the better team before all that. With all those injuries, I just, I have a hard time seeing the jets being able to find their way back into this one. Well, Jesse talks about the goalies. I keep referring back to 2019 several times in this hour here.

I go back to 2019 when you guys remember when Jordan Bennington made the comment, do I look nervous? Well, the next game was back up in the Winnipeg. And what did the fans chant there? And I think it was a whiteout as well. You look nervous. You look nervous. And what changes that playing well? And Jordan Bennington obviously did that.

And they won the Blues won that series against the Jets. But a loud place. But that's a funny chant. You got to give him credit on that. But Perswa played tremendous. And Jesse, as you touched on, Jets really banged up right now. And the Vegas Golden Knights. The question mark, I think that a lot of us outside of Vegas had,

the goaltending has been terrific. So it looks like they should handle that series. And if they do handle that series and the Oilers handle their series, they will face each other in the next round. So you know what? Let's talk Oilers next segment with Daniel Nujibomit, who covers the team for The Athletic. Well, as we discussed in segment number one,

the Oilers were just this close to being down three games to one in their series against the Kings and then everything turned around. And after that 6-3 win last night, They're now one win away from heading back to the second round. This series has had pretty much everything, keeping our next guest extremely busy. Dana Nudra Bowman joining us on the athletic hockey show, the Wednesday Roundtable Edition. Thanks for doing this, man. You're welcome.

It's great to be on with you guys, even though, well, actually, we didn't have an overtime game last night, so I shouldn't complain. Free overtime games, late starts. Sleep is hard to come by after. It doesn't happen in the playoffs. You just don't get any of it. Let's dive right in, Daniel, because I was reading your recap of Game 5, and one of the, like, sub-topics said, quote, a balanced attack for the Oilers. I think that's something most people would agree has been their Achilles heel for many, many years. It used to be, if McDavid and Drysidal aren't scoring this team's in a lot of trouble, 13 different Oilers finding the score sheet last night.

Is that just the biggest difference between this year's edition of the Oilers and, you know, the, I don't want to call them underachieving, but the team that hasn't been able to break through over the last five, six years. Yeah, I think so, Rob. And this goes back probably to when Jay Woodcroft was promoted for Baker's Field last season. And the bottom six has really kind of undergone,

you know, a huge improvement. And to the point where now they can be trusted on the ice that they're not being caved in. They're not being outscored. That was a huge issue. And in the previous, Connor McDavid and Leandro, I settled years. You know, they were getting, they were getting absolutely caved in with some improvement

at the end of, toward the end of Dave Tibbett's tenure, but during that time. And I got to, you know, was basically at the point where you have to have one of them on the ice or the others were hooped. And that's not the case. And, you know, they've been able to do a lot of different things with their lineup because they, Jay Woodcroft trust pretty much all those forwards. it goes a long way, you know, toward having a long playoff run if you can trust more than two or three guys. And I think this sets the team up for a very long playoff run here.

I know they still have to get through Los Angeles. You know, they have two cracks at beating the Kings and taking that series. But I had them as a favorite in the West going into the playoffs. And, you know, part because of that balanced lineup. but, you know, of course, they have the high-end talent, too. You know, I think they're prime for, to do some major damage here this spring. Going into this series, the matchups that I loved that I could not wait to see was, the Kings have got those two shutdown centers with Kopitar and Dano.

And DeNo has done a spectacular job against McDavid at five on five. I mean, he's still getting everything he needs it on the power play. But how big has Drys Eidle been while DeNoe is doing the job he's doing against Mediative? this has been the year of McDavid, and he really has been quiet at five-on-five, but Drysiddle seems to be carrying this team. Yeah, I would say with McDavid, he's still getting his chances. And, you know, especially early in the series, he was still driving play against Philip Dineau. But as you say, Jesse, like the results haven't come.

I mean, McDavid has eight points in five games, and that seems very pedestrian, especially given that just three of those points, just three assists have come at five-on-five. Yeah, the Oilers power play is otherworldly, as we've seen in the regular season, and we're definitely seeing in this series. So McDavid's going to get his cookies and his apples and everything on the power play. But to your point, Jesse, like, Drysiddle has been, you know, the driving force. And, you know, they, he's been able to, you know, to will the Oilers, especially in game two, to a victory there.

And it's, I think it's taken some tinkering by Coach Jay Wood. Croft, where he started to see it in game four, where he put McDavid and Dry Settle together a little bit more. And that's where, you know, Todd McClellan has a choice to make. But, you know, which center do I want to go against those guys and leave another center for another Oilers line? And I think it's really paid off, you know, that top line I felt set the tone in last night's game, with McDavid Drysettel and Evander Kane being on that line, too. I don't think they had the greatest game. McDavid had a couple of defensive lapses that resulted in goals,

but they set the tone early. Nick Bukstad moving up to center, a second line with Zach Hyman and Ryan Eugent Hopkins, produced a couple of goals at five-on-five. And so it took a little bit of tinkering, but I think under most circumstances, I don't like when McDavid and Dreisledler together. I think it kind of,

we can see how there's balanced attack because we were kind of talking about earlier. But in this case, I think there's some merit to it. And for the last, since about the middle of game four onward, it's really kind of worked in the Oilers' favor. And Dry Settle has been a key force in the series. McDavid has still been good enough, not quite to his otherworldly standards,

but together they've been able to get the others to where they need to be in the series. Well, Daniel, congratulations for not yawning doing your answers. I'm pretty proud of you there. And hey, I just wanted to touch on some of the things that you pointed out there with the decisions that Coach Woodcroft is making. First of all, he's putting a lot of trust in those other forwards. And I think that's the key with, you know, you look at a team beyond McDavid and Drysidal. You know, those guys want to be counted on and they want to deliver. And the question is, which comes first? They deliver and then you have trust in

them or you put that trust in them and then they deliver. And it seems like that's what's happening there, along with the key decisions he's made, going back to Skinner, putting dry saddle McDavid together last night, just the job, if you could touch on the job that Woodcroft's done here. Yeah, it's chicken and egg and horse and cart, right? J.R., like, you know, players like to have that trust, but they have to earn it too. And I think it goes back to, again, like the regular season where, and Jay Woodcroft does know a lot of these players from Bakersfield, especially these young guys that haven't coached

them coming up, but he does trust a lot of them. And you're seeing, you know, Warren Fogle, Ryan McLeod and Derek Ryan be a pretty, pretty effective line for this team. Klim Koston, former Blue, he, you know, he's had his moments, but he seems to be the guy that, you know, when push comes to show, kind of gets forgotten about it and loses some nice time as the game goes along. But, but again, Woodcroft has kind of found roles for everyone, I think, up front. And you see with Nick Bustadt, who hadn't played in the top six at all.

since coming over from Arizona at the trade deadline. And, you know, the coach trusts them enough to put them in that spot and to center basically a second line. Now, the Oilers, for those that don't know, have been using 11 forwards and seven defensemen since game two. And that's a scheme that they've, they've used a lot in the regular season to a great deal of success. You know, it helps get McDavid and dry siddle and some of the other forwards some more ice time. but, you know, those top two lines were pretty much set in stone last night, you know, aside from maybe McDavid and Dry Settle having to center, you know, a couple fourth line wingers.

But, yeah, he pushed all the right buttons. And I thought that your point, Jeremy, putting a new scourner was a big decision. We'll never know what would have happened if Jack Campbell started that game last night and if the others would have won and what Jack Campbell's level of play. would have been, but Stuart Skinner's been the starting goal tender for this team since essentially middle to late November. This guy deserved to start game five. I don't think, you know, game four was a scenario where, you know, he didn't play great, but all three goals from the Kings were run pretty much unfettered chances after an Oilers player had made a pretty big gaff in front of him.

So I don't think they wanted to pin that loss squarely on the shoulders of Stuart Skinner. Jack Campbell deserves a lot of credit for coming in there, cold, and stopping 27 of 28 shots in game 4. But really up to that point, hadn't played very well this season. And I think you've got to, you know, ride with the guy who got you there.

And that's Skinner. And he didn't play tremendous, I didn't think, last night, but he played well enough to get them to win. And I think there's a lot more improvement from, from Skinner still to be had. And Jay Woodcroft trusts him.

Again, another Bakersfield guy that he knows very well. So, yeah, Woodcraft certainly pushed all the right buttons, I thought, in game five, and he'll have to probably tinker again because his mentor, Todd McClellan, on the other side, we'll certainly have some tinkering to do, and we'll do in the next three days before game seven on Saturday. Dan, let's go back for us just for one second, because this is going to sound like a really stupid question, but I haven't felt this way since if Getty Malcon didn't get put on the top 100 players of all time list. And I remember thinking it's just the cross-go.

I know you're going here. It's going to sound ridiculous. But is Leon Drysidal underrated? Because if Leon Drysidal is anywhere else, I think we're putting him on a much bigger mountain. And he's just got such a big shadow, whether he's playing on that line or not. But what he's doing, not only in this series, but what he's doing, not only in this series, but what he's done in his career is, is elite, elite, elite.

And I always feel like we're, us included, always just talking about McDavid. Yeah. And I would say he's not underrated in Edmonton, but I think around the league, he probably is where people think, you know, here's Connor McDavid, who will end up on the Mount Rushmore

of hockey greats when his career is done. I have no doubt about that. and there's number two. And you think, you know, here's McDavid piling up, you know, hard trophies and scoring championships. Now he's got a rocket richard. And, you know, the list goes on and on. He's one of the greatest players of all time.

So you're going to get overshadowed. And I think that's a pretty realistic outcome for people around the lead to forget about dry saddle in a way. But in these parts, I don't think he is. And I mean, people might forget that, that Leon Dreisselt has a heart trophy and an Art Ross trophy as well. It's been a guy who scores 50 goals every year,

but one of the just voted by his peers is the best passer in the games. He's what Zach Heimann likes to call a past first 50 goal score. And that's, uh, you know, pretty unbelievable. Um, you know, Drysidal goes every season. He goes about a month,

maybe six weeks where he's just not there. He's not playing well. Uh, he looks a bit lethargic. Uh, And it kind of, you know, it becomes a talking point. It happened even in that MVP year of 2019, 2020. But he always comes out of it.

And when he wants to play, when he wants to, when he decides he wants to make a difference, he's just unstoppable. He's, nobody can take the puck off of him. He's like yager. He's got a big rear end and can kind of block guys out. His skating. He's not the quickest guy in the world, but once he gets going, he can move. we talked about the passing, the shot.

He can score anywhere from, you know, the top of the circle to the goal line or maybe even behind it. There's not much this guy can't do. And the Oilers are incredibly fortunate to have two guys of that caliber. And drive subtle is what, you know, as we saw in the playoffs last year, being able to get two points a game for the last two thirds of it on one leg, essentially. Now he's, you know, healthy and then you're seeing, you know, the full kind of, a calmer you know full set of skills that that he has um he's not again and he's not underrated in these parts you know or the she's beloved by bylers fans but i can see your point rob um you know

we didn't have them on our n hl uh 99 list in terms of the top 100 players and uh you know i talk to some of his teammates who were baffled by that decision because uh you know he he's right up there with the look at a lot of the stats uh he's right up there with austin matthews and uh there was a you know, it's still this way, but I think it was so more a couple of years ago where there's a lot of comparisons between Connor McDavid and Austin Matthews in terms of who's the best player. Well, to me, it's Connor McDavid is miles ahead and it's between Leon Drysettle and Austin Matthews in terms of, you know, trying to rank those two players behind in any kind of order or with other players involved. But Drysettle is right there and deserves a lot, maybe more credit than he gets outside of them. The Oilers have been great, and we've talked a lot about all the things they've done right. But like Rob said, they were very close to being down three to one in this series,

if not for a miraculous comeback. Obviously, I think the Kings are a bad matchup for them. The Kings match up well. But for this team to go on the cup run that we all think they have the talent to do, when you look at their game right now, like where do you see the most room for growth? Like, where does this team need to get better going forward? Yeah, well, I completely agree with you, Jesse. I wrote several times that I thought the Kings were like the worst matchup for them.

You mentioned earlier, and we've talked about their two two-way centers in Dono and Copa-and-Copatra that can match up with dry saddle and McDavid. And they also like to play a very defensive system, a one-three-one, you know, neutral zone scheme and really try to push the Oilers, test the Oilers patients. So I think getting through the series, if they can, I mean, they have two, again, two cracks to win one game. You'd think the Oilers can do that. but if they can get through the series, I think it'll just take an anvil off their shoulders and really free them up to, you know, to move along here in the playoffs.

Again, we talked about kind of the rocky place so far of Stuart Skinner, you know, through after game one, he called himself average. It's pretty much continued on that way. I think there's a lot more room for growth there. You know, they've had lapses in defensive zone coverage that have resulted in a few goals. goals, they, they certainly have to clean that up.

I just think another opponent will allow guys like, well, especially Connor McDavid and a couple others. Ryan Nugent Hopkins has been pretty quiet up until the last couple of games, Vander Cane and Zach Heim can be put in that group too. But I think, you know, another opponent, it'll be able to produce a lot more at five-on-five, which will certainly help, help, you know, lighten the load defensively for this club. So, yeah, there's certainly some areas that they can, they can improve upon the penalty kill being another one. But I just think if they can get past the Kings and play a team that's better suited to,

allowing the Oilers to play their strengths, they'll be in a much better spot. Well, you got a couple games, as you mentioned, to do it, to punch that ticket to the second round. Daniel, go back to bed. Thanks for waking up to talk to us. I got to deal with two young kids. So I'm not sure if I'll get to sleep, but I'm going to try. I know the feeling. I know the feeling.

Thanks for doing this. We'll talk to you soon. Okay, take care, guys. Daniel Nudra Bowman, who covers the Edmonton Oilers, best seat in the house, best job and the house get to watch that guy, Connor McDavid, and Leon Drossel. There I go. Underrating Leon Dries. I'm even doing it.

It's unreal. I'm wondering if you're going to throw his name in there. Yeah, it's just unreal what we think of him. So thanks to Dan, you for coming out. After the break, rapid fire. So don't go anywhere. All right, my favorite time of the show and yours, rapid, Fire. JR. I know you're new to this show. Russo talks for about 45 minutes for each and

everyone, uh, completely ignoring the word rapid, but we're going to try to burn through these because we've had, uh, a fun show and we've hit a lot of topics, but we got a few more. Rapid fire topic number one. Looks like the flames are finally getting themselves a new arena. A deal has been reached, uh, to replace that old saddle dome with, uh, a new event center. And they're going to make improvements in the surrounding area, uh, of downtown. It looks like it's going to cost about $1.2 billion, $800 million going to the new arena. Jesse, you're shaking your head. It's about time, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so I actually can't speak to the Saddle Dome. It's one of the two buildings I have not been to in the HAL. So I got to get out,

I got to get out there before they get rid of it. But, I mean, it's one of the oldest buildings in the league. It's probably time, right? Well, should I do my Ruso imitation here. Hey, I was talking to Bruce Boudreau a couple minutes ago. I got to get my Starbucks coffee. I got to write a story. I got three stories that are due today. So there's my Russo imitation. I love the Saddle Dome. Look, I'm all for the people in Calgary getting a new rink.

But I love the Saddle Dome. It's one of my favorite. I actually one time I took my cell phone up there and walked the catwalk and kind of did a live, Facebook Live or whatever. People were freaking out. I was freaking out. So I'm going to miss it, that place. I love old buildings.

I love nostalgia. I love it all. But we're at a point. now it's beyond being a barn. So it's good to see that the fans of Calgary are going to get themselves a new rink. Rapid Fire topic number two, Justin Braun retiring 13 seasons with San Jose, New York, and Philly. Not bad for a guy, JR, drafted in the seventh round. No, a real good player.

And I go back to a fight he had with Roman Polack. Polack just annihilated him. And after the game, Ken Hitchcock said, you don't open that door. You don't open the Roman Polack door. Yeah, I think back to, I mean, he was obviously with the sharks. He had some good battles with the Golden Knights in the playoffs the first couple seasons here in Vegas. Really good player. And to carve out, like you mentioned, how many seventh round picks get to play in the NHL, period?

Very, very, very few. Like, I would bet it's like less than 1%. And to have a career as long as he's had, that's a phenomenal use of the talent he was given. Great career. Rapid Fire topic number three, we've been talking about. the Leafs and that series against Tampa Bay. Well, a video kind of went a little viral during the game in which their general manager, Kyle Dubas, seemed quite clearly yelling into the stands in Tampa Bay.

Now, the clip is labeled by everyone, you know, Kyle Dubas yelling at lightning fans. I've heard to the contrary, I heard he was actually yelling at a belligerent Leafs fan. Where the truth is, I don't know. but GMs know that people are going to be looking at them at all times, right, Jesse? Yeah, my takeaway is just, I need more ISO cam on Kyle Dubus. It's great. Like when they score, when they get scored on, if anything, if I could just get a channel where I've got him picture and picture on the top of the screen,

I would be happy with it. I love, like George McPhee here in Vegas is another great one. Like he loses his mind all the time. It's great. I love GM reaction cams. Give me more. Yeah. And listen, like you said,

this, in today's day and age, just act like a camera is going to be on you 24-7. All the time. All the time. All the time, especially in this playoffs. So anything you do, any gyration, any movement is going to become a meme, especially if what Jesse predicted earlier, and that was a Leaf's loss here in the first, no, I'm kidding. That anything Kyle Dubus does can turn into a meme here at the end of the series. So I just, look, a camera is on you at all times. And anything the Leafs do, and that goes all the way up to the front office, is a big, big deal in Toronto. So, you know, there's going to be a day where it's going to be like a police interrogation room where we're going to look up at the press box.

And it's just going to be a mirror. And they're behind there. So you can't, you can't shoot anything they're doing because we've seen some. I remember, it was it Pierre Dorian who just chucked his drink across the room when they lost that game? That was just, it's fun to watch. And finally, guys, this is not really a topic, but if it's been brought up, Again, it gets brought up all the time, especially during the playoffs. I just want your takes on this.

Do we need both anthems or do we need national anthems at all before sporting events? Are you on board or are you on the side of let's get rid of them, drop the puck? J.R., we start with you. I'm fine with it. I'm fine with it. And in fact, when the Canadian teams come to St. Louis, I love listening to Canadian anthem. We actually have a reporter who used to cover the blues who would belt out the Canadian anthem up in the St. Louis press box. So bring it on. It's part of sport. Each arena has its own kind of version and star anthem singer, so I like him.

Yeah, I'm having a hard time coming up with a strong take here. I just don't care. If they got rid of them, it wouldn't bother me. If someone was vehement that they have to be out there, like they also don't bother me. I will say this series I'm covering, the anthems have been entertaining because the Jets fans chant true north, the true north line during the Canadian. anthem, and it is loud up in Winnipeg when they chant it. And then Vegas fans obviously yell night when they say proof through the night during the American anthem. So they're dueling, the fans are dueling to see who can out yell each other, which to me is entertaining, gives me a little something to watch during the anthems. But yeah, I don't really have a strong take on them. I'm with Jesse in this one, Rob. I'm, I noticed it during the COVID playoffs when you

had the all-Canadian division. And suddenly all, every game that you're watching in that division was just one anthem. And it felt like the games, all of a sudden, it's like, hey, one anthem. All right, we're getting to the game.

But I'm the same way, especially if I'm not covering a game, if I'm just at home. I usually don't really start paying attention until that referee raises his hand and drops the puck. So I'm either way, but it seems as though there's some strong opinion. Some people really don't want to see it.

But I'm with you. I really don't care. And if it stays there, all the power to it. Good show, boys. kind of to that point of the show, though. Dumb question for you, Jesse.

What are you working on? Yeah, I'm obviously playoff stuff. I'm currently working on a piece on Jack Eichel and Mark Stone dealing with being targeted, not in a dirty way. The Jets are roughing them up every chance they get, as they should be, because they are killing them. Eichl and Stone have been great. So working on a piece on what it's like to play in the playoffs as a star player,

getting hit after every single time you touch the puck. should be some good quotes in there. But yeah, all playoff coverage at the moment. JR. Yeah, guys, you're never going to believe this, but the Blues were 109 point team last year, right? So at the beginning of this season, 22, 23, I had readers give me their bold predictions. And after a 109 point season, let's give them a shout out. Ken V, subscriber to the athletic, Ken V, said that the Blues would have three first round

picks in the upcoming draft and their own pick would be a, top 10. So he actually predicted this blues absolute collapse of a season, 81 points. And so the blues indeed do have three first round picks and their pick, like he said, is the number 10 picks. So how about these readers? I told Ken, he's going to have to do the bold predictions next year instead of me. So quite a, quite a prediction there. We need to get Ken V on the show. I was about to say Jeff told Matt, I'm a producer. I hope you're listening. Get Ken V on the show next time we want to talk about. Forget, forget J.R. Let's get Ken V on. on the show. He's got it all

figured out. Jared, thanks for jumping in. Appreciate it. It was great, guys. Thanks for having me. And I want to thank everybody out there for listening and remind you, if you want to see our ugly mugs, we now have a YouTube channel. Head to YouTube.com slash The Athletic Hockey Show, and The Athletic Hockey Show returns Thursday with Ian Mendez and down goes Brown. I want to say a big thanks to D&B for waking up

bright and early after that game and talking to us. For Jesse and J.R., I'm Rob Russo. We'll finally land and come back and talk to us next week. Looking forward to that and rapid fire being four times longer. We'll see you in seven days.