The Athletic Hockey Show - Jack Eichel carrying the Golden Knights in Conference Final, Penguins set sights on Kyle Dubas and Dallas Eakins on Paul Maurice, Brandon Montour and Anaheim Ducks

Episode Date: May 22, 2023

The Tuesday boyzzz spread their magic on a Monday, as America's finest celebrate Canada's Victoria Day in style. Craig and Sean stick tap the effort from Jack Eichel as he has seemingly put the Vegas Golden Knights on his back, with Vegas leading the Western Final over Dallas Stars, 2 games to none. The boys discuss the full court press that Fenway Sports Group will be putting forward to lure Kyle Dubas to the Pittsburgh Penguins and the dysfunctional fallout in Toronto, after Dubas's breakup with Brendan Shanahan and the Maple Leafs.Dallas Eakins, the former head coach of the Anaheim Ducks joins Craig and Sean to look back on his years with the Ducks, gives his honest impressions on Trevor Zegras and John Gibson and praises the work done by Paul Maurice and the buy in from Matthew Tkachuk, Brandon Montour and the rest of the Panthers, with Florida leading the Eastern final 2 games to none over the Carolina Hurricanes.Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowGet a 1-year subscription to The Athletic for $2 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshowSo sign up for a Chime Checking Account today to link your paycheck. It only takes two minutes and doesn’t affect your credit score. Get started at chime.com/nhlshow. That’s chime.com/nhlshow.Download the Dave app from the App store right now or go to dave.com/nhlshow Sign up for an Extra Cash account and get up to 500 dollars instantly. For terms and conditions go to dave dot com slash legal. Instant transfer fees apply. Banking services provided by Evolve bank and trust. Member FDIC.Head to FACTOR MEALS dot com slash nhlshow50 and use code nhlshow50 to get 50% off your first box. That’s code nhlshow50 at FACTOR MEALS dot com slash nhlshow50 to get 50% off your first box.The right tone can move any project forward when you get it just right with Grammarly. Go to grammarly.com/tone to download and learn more about Grammarly Premium’s advanced tone suggestions. That’s G-R-A-M-M-A-R-L-Y DOT COM SLASH TONE.check out all of the delicious options at Nuts.com/hockey23. You’ll receive a free gift and free shipping when you spend $29 or more Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. Hey folks, it's Sean and Craig. Before we jump in, we want to tell you about New York Times Audio, a new iOS app for New York Times news subscribers. It's got our show plus other great podcasts from the athletic, exclusive shows, narrated articles, and more. New York Times Audio, download it now at NYTimes.com slash audio app. Hey, everybody.

It is bright and early on a Monday morning for Sean and I, not normally record. on a Monday, but here's the deal. We are maybe the best teammates you could have. And our Canadian friends, who does the money show? I can't. Not sure. It's hard to say. They're celebrating, as people do up there,

Victoria Day or Queen, the Queens? As they're celebrating Victoria Day in the colonies. So here we are. Happy Victoria Day. I've got so much stuff to do, but here we're. we are on a Monday cramming in an athletic hockey show. And it's a great show. It's going to be a great show because we've got Dallas Aikins who last stop was with the Anaheim Ducks. We'll ask him about this. But tough stretch of time to be the coach of the Ducks in retrospect. You really, gosh,

because we mentioned this in his exit statement whenever they decided not to bring them back. He, you know, said, honored to be the coach of the ducks going through COVID and a reveal. The GM, there is a GM change. Yeah. I saw a lot of him on the SportsNet panel when I was covering in the Oilers King series. Did a good job. Did a good job. That seems like that's work that'll be there for him if he wants to seek it over the next little bit.

Pretty good chemistry with everyone there. I enjoyed Washington seriously. I'm not surprised he's doing well in that role. I would be in, we'll find out, I would be surprised if that would be satisfying for him as, I mean, who wants to just sit and talk in front of microphones

and see that's what I do for a living? What kind of losers would do that, you know? Can we, let's talk playoffs just briefly. Yeah. Because there's a lot of interesting things going on around the league. But,

the Vegas is up to nothing. on the Dallas stars. And Jack Eichel, like this is, you know, we're watching him, watching it play out. We're watching him play really well. This is why you go out and get Jack Eichel. And it seems really obvious now, but there was moments in time where it was like, boy, you know, Vegas is just completely uprooted team chemistry. I think I said that.

Like, you were hearing that. They just were bringing in all these stars and it wasn't really working. And now of a sudden it's like, oh, this point where they had hit a wall in the past or maybe struggled. A guy like Jack Eichel is the kind of player that can strap a team onto his back if he wants and get you there. He's been pretty great. Guess what we saw last night? Yeah. So Jack Eichael do just that. That was a game in Vegas is now up 2-0 in that series against Dallas. That was a game that they had no business winning at all. They were down late. As was dragon, basically throughout the entire game. And who was it? Scoring the goal.

strapping themselves like again strapping that team to his back that was that's Jack Eichel that's why you go out and get him

and I think he's shown signs of this really throughout the playoffs it was something that I truly like went out on my way to write after a game in Edmonton

because I think it bears repeating and I think it bears saying or maybe saying for the first time about Jack Eichle in Vegas this dude is still for whatever reason after being slept on for the last two years, he's an elite player.

Clearly, clearly. And it's like something people forgot because of the bullshit that went on in Buffalo, where they, you know, weren't, you know, I mean, what it boils down to is they weren't going to allow him to have the surgery on his neck that he wanted, ends up leaving town over that, rightfully so, understandably so. First year with Vegas is marked by that, right? Because he's coming back from the, he's coming back. from the surgery and whatever else.

And then this season, he had a groin injury or a lower body injury that kept him out for a month. When he came back from that, from January on, he's one of the best five on five players in the league. Vegas, his power play is not great,

and part of that is probably because of Jack Eichol, so you can pocket, you can stick that on a shelf, right? We don't, like, that is something that I would imagine is going to need to be addressed at some point in Vegas. but Jack Eichel as a five-on-five player is fantastic. Yeah.

He averages many five-on-five points per 60 this season as Connor McDavid did. And that was forgot. It is a true fact. And I say this because I've written however many Vegas playoff previews and wrote something specifically about Jack after he had just a beast of a game in Edmonton where the whole toolkit was on display for him, right? Where you see the skating and you see the creativity and you see the effort defensively. That's why you go out and get Jack Eichol.

And we've seen it several times throughout these playoffs, not just in the Dallas series, but last night was the best example imaginable, right? Because that's why you go out and get them. You go out and get, and that's why if you're Vegas, you go out and get Mark Stone or you go out and get Jack Eichol. So you have those guys at the top of it, at the top of your line. up that can just shift into that fifth gear or sixth gear and say like, all right, this is, I'm going to, I'm going to take control for the next 10 minutes of this game. And that's what we saw last night. You know, it's funny in terms of roster construction, this is the criticism of the Toronto Maple Leafs.

Is it too top heavy with stars? Like, it was when it's not going well, when it wasn't in Vegas, it was like, they don't have the depth. Look at all the depth they've lost. And now, you know, now it's like, look at their stars rise. This is what happens when the stars rise to the occasion in the big moments. I mean, you're counting on that, but I think that's what you want when you're building a team. Absolutely. And it's also what happens when you have that, it's wild that we're sitting here about to gas up Vegas as an example of thoughtful roster construction, because that's not necessarily true, but it all comes out in the wash. And what we have there are elite players making elite money who are producing, but also that second class, right, that like upper

middle class where it's guys who aren't making $10 million or $9 million, but you also have a pretty defined hierarchy of a couple of a few players that top making a ton of money and then a viable middle class that are that are giving you return on on your investments. And I think that, you know, by hook or by crook, whether it's luck, whatever it is, that's what Vegas has ended up with, and that's what I think, as you try to segue into talking about Kyle Dubus and the Pittsburgh Penguins, I think that's what we've really trying to do. Missed from Toronto, right? Yeah.

Because they're paying their top five players, you know, whatever it is, almost $50 million, between them. Corey Praman just dropped a redraft of the 2015 draft today. Had I go in one, Oprah McDavid, really surprising that you're really switching the narrative so quickly. I'm just joking, folks. I did it's a bit of player. So one, one more thing about Jack, too. No, no, no. I, so that was the day of the draft lottery.

That was the day that, right? So, Bedard, it's Bedard's miss for the Chicago Blackhawks. We shouldn't have that big, but whatever. Anaheim Ducks end up with Adam Fantilly. Uh-huh. And it just seemed like a fitting thing, but also like a forgotten thing. we're watching Jack Eichael play against Connor McDavid and Edmonton, right? So, and I knew what was going to happen.

I knew that Jack wasn't going to want to talk about it. I waited until the end of the scrum and just was like, hey, man, like, is there any extra juice doing it on a day like this in this particular place against Connor? And he was like, nope, nope, nope, nope, not at all, don't care, nothing, nope, never mind. I mean, good for you for at least getting it because then you can work the end your lead. I'm sorry, man. It's always part of the. It's going to be part of the narrative.

Yeah. That's the way it goes. What if he wins the cup before Connor? No, no, no, I'm not saying any. I'm just saying like, number one in a redraft. I'm not saying redraft, but it's like, it's going to be, you know, good for him. It'd be great. It'd be great.

It'd be great for him. Because you know what? He would always have that. Yeah. Would always have. And be like, well, I don't know, I don't is a good player, but how many cups is he had. Points of the ring finger. Count the rings, man.

All right. We have to get to Dallas. I don't want to spend too much time here, but you're in Pittsburgh. Kyle Dubis, you know, I don't think it's crazy to say that he might be number one on their wish list as a GM. As he should be, you know, I think how that played out in Toronto. We don't need to rehash it because we had 45 stories on our site. We're good on that. But what a mess.

What a mess. And they're going to get what they deserve, I think, ultimately in Toronto. Toronto? Yeah. What a disaster. But the fun the one thing that I do want to say about that no one we can move on. It's when this is just like watching it from afar. It is so wild to see this is pure dysfunction.

Yeah. Disfunction when you have when nobody involved with a situation wants the outcome to be what it is. And that's where it ended up. You have Brennan Shanahan who's like, I don't want this. You have Kyle Dubis who doesn't want this. And yet here they are in a situation that nobody wanted to be in the first place having to suck it up. and deal with it because of their own mismanagement and, you know, ego-based, you know, silliness.

Yeah. Right? It's wild. That and that, to me, organizationally, when you talk about sports, that is the, that is the best example of this function I can imagine seeing. When you, when you, nobody involved wants things to be this way and yet it's the way that they are. And now, now Toronto has to find a GM, maybe break up the core.

The draft has, like, there's no time to do it. The best GM on the market is the guy. they just walked away from, I mean, so anyways. Austin Matthews, no move kicks in on July 1. Disaster. And it's like, well, we don't want to rush, but, you know, the calendar is saying you have to rush. We all have to do things we don't want to do. Like record a podcast on King Charles's birthday or whatever this is.

There's so many plans. What do you do on Victoria? Do you barbecue, I'm assuming? You're like grill things? That sounds. You'd like. Just chill. Bring out the...

Pass off work on your coworkers. I was going to do all of that today until we got this call. So we've talked a little bit about this because we thought this would be a possibility. Pittsburgh, sure, they want Kyle. He seems to align with everything. You know, it sounds like analytics are an important part of the decision making. Look, he ran a great, like, he did a good job running the program there in Toronto under very difficult circumstances. But if you're Kyle, do you want the Pittsburgh Penguins?

That's what I come back to. Like, you're leaving a team that was like wide open and at Stanley Cup competition ability. And now you would be going to Pittsburgh where what are you, you're tearing it down? You're Kyle Davidson? This is all going to come down to how well the Fenway Sports Group sells Kyle Tubis on working for them. Not necessarily about the Pittsburgh Penguins. I think that's an interesting opportunity. You get to run a soccer team or something on the side?

Just throw a few crumbs. They have experience working with, with like, I don't want to say rock star executives, but like that's the home of Theo Epstein, right, for a while. The come up for Theo Epstein came with that group on and on. There's lists there. And they have a history of hiring, of developing people like Kyle Dubus and hiring people like Kyle Dubus and making them pretty inexorable parts of their, of their of their of their of their corporate culture and that's like honestly the level of shit of shit that

we're talking about here right they've paid people like kyle doob is a whole lot of money to run the boston red socks and some of their other their other sports concerns it's on them to sell that to sell that hockey team as the place for kyle dubus in the in the next phase of his career i don't think it's certainly not the other way around if they want him they need they need they need to go out they need to go out and convince him but i think that's important to say like this is this this shouldn't be Kyle Dubus. People need to realize this isn't Kyle Dubus seeking a job. This is Fenway Sports Group trying to sell themselves to Kyle Dubus.

I think the, I think the time frame is really interesting. I think they were getting probably pretty close to making a decision, not just on who to hire, but how many people to hire, whether it was a, whether it was a Poho GM situation or whatever, what the organizational layout was.

that now? Like poho is a thing? Yeah, it's a very, very obnoxious. I actually, I'm sorry for using that. Can you take that? That was gross. Presence of hockey, present of hockey operations. I think they were close to making a decision. There was a round of interviews that turned into a shorter round of interviews.

And I think there's, it seemed like they were in the end game. And I think that they had resigned themselves to not getting Kyle Dubas. There's a reason that things. progressed and escalated after the Toronto Maple Leafs first round win. Because they were in a holding pattern there for a little bit. Now we're all starting to hear about like they're bringing in eight people, 10 people, 12 people. They're cutting that down to a shorter list.

All of that happened after the Leafs advanced in the first round. And now it's like time out because they, I think on some level, the Fenway people understand. just like anybody had said he's going to stick. He's like or or something or something something something. Something really weird would happen for this to badly. Something really crazy would have to happen if Kyle, if Kyle Dubas wasn't the GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs next season and also was looking

for another job. Like I think they took that. I think they took the Leafs success in the first round and also the things that Kyle Dubas said, you know, publicly to some extent. I think they took it seriously. So they got farther down the road without having Kyle Duvus as a consideration. And now they have to account for the reality

that the guy they wanted all along is now available. Is now available. So I think there's been a little bit of a shift. I think they've had to probably change the plan over the last three days. And we will now see because, you know,

I don't think they want this to last that much longer. That's the other thing. There was, they clearly, I think they want something done relatively soon. This isn't like, we're going to walk this up to the, we're going to rely on our scouting staff to get us through the draft or whatever. They want people, they want people in place. So we'll see. There's a saying in hockey.

Of course, everyone knows this. I'm not telling you anything you don't know, everybody. Always have your GMs hired made by Queen Victoria's birthday. Like that's that's kind of common That's actually That's actually I think that's the official Canadian

Like state motto It's on the money State motto Of Canada Is it a country Is it a country? What is it really? Protectorate

It's like Guam For England I believe Well we'll ask Allis A Gonzalez's all of these questions And more When we're back We're not thrilled to be joined by long time coach

now maybe media personality I don't know Dallas you have to fill us in if this is going to extend beyond your work in the playoffs Dallas Akins joins us first of all thanks good to see you Dallas how are you? Hey great to see you guys too and doing well yeah okay the first question I have for you

this is I need to know in order to get anything out of your pantry do we still have to do sit-ups and push-ups I saw I think one of your daughters that put a sign up on your pantry that said three three pushups in, three pushups out because that sounds like... Could be helpful for me, appears a lot of work to get a snack. I could actually use this.

Yeah, that, you know what? That was during, I think that was during COVID. Oh, is that old? I just saw that pop up. Yeah. Yeah, but it was up there for a while. And it was actually, it's amazing that our daughter caught on to that because she just was like, hey, the only reason anybody goes in here is they grab bad food, like snack.

And so it was fun. We had that going for a while in the household. We actually moved homes last year. And the sign didn't make it to the new home. So I'm able to sneak in there guilt-free that I'm not ignoring the sign. That's great. That's great. We'll transfer that over here. We need that here. It's a real issue in our household. So, you know, Dallas, I just want to, if we can start with Hannah Heim, because, you know, you know, I remember, you know, when the news came out and you were like super gracious as, you know, as you always are and kind of thanking everybody for the opportunity. But it was also like a reminder of really what you had to deal with. It was like, you know, unbelievable opportunity in San Diego, then COVID and then a rebuilding process. Like that's a really, as a coach, a difficult, you know, stretch of time. But I know how your mindset is, you're like, you know, you can learn something through

anything. So I'd be curious what that kind of what you took away from that experience. Well, I really think it's important. I don't care what you do is to go back, have some really good self-evaluation, understand history, and then get to your circumstance really quickly. And it's those choices and circumstance that reveal your character and it allows you to keep moving forward. The history in Anaheim is what it was. I had an unbelievable opportunity to go into San Diego, brand new franchise, get hockey going down there, and it was just an incredible experience for four years. We won a lot of hockey games. We developed kids like Montour and Shaitho, and the list can go on and on. And then the opportunity in the Anaheim comes, amazing

opportunity. But it was a little gray what we were doing. You know, are we going into a rebuild? Are we going to try to retool it? We're trying to insert young players, still try to win. But, you know, it was a little bit gray. But my time there, when I look back, it's, it is what it is. So, you know, my first season gets shut down by COVID.

second season is full COVID, right? We get into the third year. My boss, who I had a lot of respect for, who did his business a little bit old school, he gets let go. And then a new manager comes in and declares rebuild and trades away all of our guys. And we had that team that year. We are near the top of our division. at Christmas time, you know, and then everything started swirling. And then, you know, it's very rare that a manager comes in and ends up keeping the coach. I was, you know, really grateful to

have a year with them. But I got the sense of what was coming. And the, I think it's just important to be yourself on the way of the door. And I guess I could be bitter and disappointed and all these things. The only thing I'm disappointed about is I know my, relationships with the players and I know some of them will just slowly go away. Now there's a handful in there that never will. It's kind of like my relationships that I still have with like Codry and Luke Shan and guys that I've coached in the past. So that that saddens me because every player in that dressing room is like my son. I've never really thought of that honestly. it's like, I mean, because that's not relationships that we have because we're not, we're not hockey coaches.

But like you can, you get that sense when it's like, is it like seeing, you know, an old friend that you've fallen out of touch with? And it's, there's always that level of like wistfulness or kind of, you know, bittersweet, bitter sweet moments when you come across, you know, these, these guys who you were around so closely and so, you know, intensely for for years, then maybe time passes. and the idea the idea of you running into running into people at events or whatever and just be like, oh, okay, it's not, it's not like it was before. I, that's, that's something I don't think I'd given too much thought to. Yeah, you know what, it is like seeing an old friend for me. I've got guys all the time that I've either coached or I've coached or maybe and sometimes played with.

And, but the kids that you coached, it's always a, you know, a pretty special relationship. And I think you get really misunderstood, especially as a coach quickly when you've coached a rebuilding team. Like people just look at it and go, oh, man, that must have been a disaster. You know, that room must have been really bad. Like, everything's bad. And it's not. We fully understood where we were as a team. We were trying to get better every day.

I do think we got better in a number of spots. I think the team is going to be really well served with some of our players. development and I'm going to keep cheering for them. It's, you know, like in an hour for now, I'm going to go run and I'm going to have my Anna Antunuck shirt on because I'm a fan. And so it's, I think the whole people get, well, I think this. I think people choose to really get mad and upset and all these things. And I guess there are sometimes it's warranted. But for me here, is very different. I have so much love for the ownership here.

There'll be people that I'm in touch with for the rest of my life. And it's nothing but I'm going out the door of the great experience and a lot of love. I was watching the SportsNet broadcast of the lottery. And you said ahead of time, of course, wasn't surprised you hear this, but you're rooting for the ducks to win the first overall pick, right? That's not something obviously is. Absolutely. And that isn't what happened, but they're still in a pretty good spot.

they have a second overall pick, whether it ends up being, you know, Fantelli or whoever the choice does end up being there. I'm just wondering, you know, you mentioned the simulies and, you know, ownership there and whatever else. What kind of organization is, you know, Adam Fantelli or one of those top prospects coming into it at this point? Why is that, why is that a place that, you know, someone should be, should be excited to land? Well, they're going to get opportunity, number one, just the way the roster set up. So that's really important. You know, our ownership here, Henry and Susan, Samueli, their daughter, Gillian, does an amazing job, just an amazing job with San Diego. If there's anybody that's deserving of being in a management position in the NHL, it's her. that a lady has certainly paid her dues over the years. But they are just giving people to our community here. And they are our hands off.

They're more fans than anything. Now, Jillian's a little different. She's running the show in San Diego and doing a great job of that. But they're coming into a really well-rounded organization. And whoever that person is that's coming in, out of this draft, they're also coming into a community where you can go play, you can come in and work, and there's not a lot of noise. Like, you know, I was just in Toronto for a couple weeks, and I had forgotten about those Canadian markets and what a buzz saw it is and how you have to be

so disciplined on how you think. So, you know, whoever this young man is that's coming in, he's coming into a really well-grounded organization, a place that he can quietly develop. And you know what? That high pick, it was necessary. It was so necessary for the Ducks. Like the organization needed a top three pick this year. It was just absolutely necessary. I know the record works bad, but it's basically mission accomplished.

You mentioned Canadian market. We're both Americans. We've been watching Trevor Zegris play a long time, Sean and I. And I would be curious, like, I imagine if he was in Toronto or something, the narrative around him might be completely different. Or at least louder. What are your thoughts on Trevor, the way he's kind of burst into the league and what he needs to do to get better moving forward? Well, I think he's a really misunderstood young man. He's got a wonderful sense of humor.

He's really light all the time. A really verbal kid in every sense of the way. You know, if you and I use 3,000 words a day, he's probably at 6,000 or 7,000 words. It's, you know, he's a really, really verbal kid, just nonstop talk. He's obviously very skilled. You know, everybody sees that.

He has the ability to pull off some, you know, just jaw dropping things on the ice. And he's not a hot dog, though. Like, he's not out there, Brian, it just comes to him naturally. He just feels it and he does it. And I think that's really important for everybody to understand. You know, his growth is he just needs more reps. It's in every sense of the, you know, the word, he needs more reps in the weight room.

he just needs time to pass that his body and his brain can mature. He's going to continue to learn the lessons of these little things in the game, the things that you're seeing in the playoffs right now that win you games and lose games. And he's just not there yet. And that's okay. Like, that's okay. That's part of a young player's development. They're not the same player,

but I know exactly what Troy Terry went through on his. And, you know, a lot of the ups and downs that Trevor goes through are the same things that Troy Terry's gone through. And Troy Terry's on the other side just because he's matured. So I think the biggest thing for Z is everybody needs to take a breath and let the young man go about his business. you're going to have to readjust his steering wheel every once in a while. And you need to have the challenge with him that he is going to get stronger, really take an interest in the smaller things that win you games. But I have no doubt in my mind that this kid's going to be really special in the future.

You mentioned the gray area that you had to exist in with the ducks at the start, right? where it was, are we trying to win games now? Are we going to do whatever? There was that sort of middle, you know, mushy middle that you guys were in a time. And I think a big part of that was because it was because of John Gibson, because you guys had a proven goaltender, you know, who's accomplished quite a bit as a starter in the NHL in net there. I just, I want to know what the last year or two was like working with him and, you know, maybe trying to maintain, you know, his mindset in a, in a situation that was. you know, not necessarily where a guy in the prime of his career would want to be. Well, I'll tell you what, it wasn't always rainbows and butterflies, I'll tell you that.

And I love that. I love John Gibson like my son. And I wish I could take out some of that DNA out of him and put it into other people. Because this kid is so driven to win. That's all he wants to do. He doesn't want his time wasted. He's there to win, and that's it. And this is where a sense of history is really necessary in organizations and for people to look at.

It's just not this last year that's war on him. It's been six years, right? I was a coach there for four. Things had been going south with the ducks two years before I got there. and so this is really worn on him. And he said, all he wants to do is the three letters, W, I, and that's it. And so I think it's been a real struggle for him.

I have nothing but the most amount of respect. I love this kid and in every sense of the word love. And, you know, him and I have had a lot of conversations over the years. what comes for him next will be, I think, really, really interesting to watch. I know there's the narrative out there. Oh, his numbers, oh, his game, he's declining. To me, that's a bunch of BS. This kid's got it.

And I'm just really interested to see what's going to happen next for him. You coached with Paul Maurice in Toronto, and Paul is on another run. run here. I just wanted to get your insight as somebody who's coached with them, against them, through the years. What do you think it is about him? I mean, clearly Florida and Bill Zito identified something that this is the guy that we need here to go on a run. That was when they kind of reworked things. That was clearly the priority. What is it about Paul's approach that you think tends to work well this time of the year? Well, you know what I love about Paul? It's a great reminder of the narrative that gets out there, a whole player, sometimes about coaches. Let's rewind

Winnipeg. Can't coach, terrible coach, got to get a bit of a blah, blah, blah. Oh, is that thing got a shot? I thought Sean was hard on. Hold on a second. That's not, that's not true. We, look, that's, what is the last season been about on both ends of that? Yeah. I'm not saying it was you, but I Craig is, and he's making shit up here. We can be honest. Sorry. I love that. I were like, oh, Sam Bennett and Calgary.

Can't do this, can't do it? Yeah. Oh, geez, yes, he can't. So, yeah. Right. But you know what? Paul Maurice, he's a great friend of mine. He actually gave me my first chance as a coach.

He was a head coach of the Toronto Marley's. I was my first year of coaching. But Paul Maurice, he is as quick. on his feet as anyone. And I think you guys get to see it obviously in press conferences. You get to see it on the bench sometimes. He was just an incredible mentor for me. But there's not much he's going to miss.

Like his brain moves very, very quickly. He's able to communicate very clearly. And he knows when to push buttons. And I go back to, you know, I spoke about this a few weeks ago. You know, he, people called it that meltdown on that bench in Toronto, kind of late in the season. And he went after his team and then they finished really, really strong. And I do not doubt that Paul was getting rid of some frustration right then. And, but I also know him well enough that it was probably pretty calculated that he was going to light him up and get across his message.

If you go back and look at that clip, if you watch Matthew to Chuck, like, he never takes his eyes off, Paul, the whole time. There's other kids, you know, looking at their skates, you know, trying to just get out of the way of it. Yeah. And I thought it was really interesting that, you know, the son of Keith, which just never took his eyes off him. But Paul's super quick. He's got a vast amount of experience. And I think he's in the mode now of how much he's coached, that he, he's. just doesn't give a mouth about anything and he's just going to do it his way and I think that's

really important but I think he and he would disagree with me but I am such a fan of his I believe that he is carrying that team on his back definitely mentioned Brandon Montor he's a player Brandon Montor is a guy you've spent a lot of time with you brought him up a few minutes ago he's made the leap, it feels like, in the last year under Paul Marie. So I'm just wondering if there's any button that Paul has pushed that you can sense with Brandon Montoror that has allowed him to level up under, under Paul and his staff there, because he's been fantastic. He's been great in the playoffs, and he was great in the regular season two.

Well, everything you see now, like I saw in San Diego, and I also saw flashes of it. when he was in anahe. But the thing that he's gotten this year is, and it goes back to, you got to let these kids mature. Like, you've got to let them mature. Like,

they are not going to be the same player at 22 that they are now at 27 or 29 or whatever it is. They all find their way at different times in their career. I think a lot of it has been opportunity. You know, I love the staff. at how far he is skating in games compared to others. He is in on everything.

And the thing that everybody needs to know about Monty is, like, even back then, and I'm sure he is now, like, he was the most fit kid at camp. This kid is scary fit. And so he can play all night. He almost just did, by the way. He played almost an hour or whatever it was. But how about his demeanor in the game? That's the other thing I love.

It's like, you know, he goes in and he misses a great A chance, and he's laughing going, you know, I can't believe I miss the net or I can't believe the goal he saved it. He loves the game so much that I'm sure in Florida, if there's a road hockey game going down the street, he's jumping in on it. Like, that's his passion for the game. So I think a lot of this is just maturity. I think it's an opportunity. Paul coaches where he puts a lot of trust in his players.

And going back, you know, you look at the moves that were, you know, made over time here in Anaheim. And Monty was actually playing quite well. If I remember correctly, I think he got moved on because they really thought he was going to cost them way too much money. And when you think the player is going to cost you too much money, what does that mean? Well, it means that he's doing something. He's putting up numbers. And it saddens me when you see that, though. Like, you know, he's drafted by the Ducks.

He's developed by the Ducks. And now he's somewhere else playing. You can put together a pretty good blue line with the Ducks graduates. Think of all the defensemen they've lost through the last, let's say, five to six years, whatever it's been. Well, I can put it together. I can put it together really, really quickly

for you. And it could be as simple as right here today. It could be very easily be Lindholm, Manson, Fowler, Drysdale, Theodore, Montour,

Peterson. I don't know. Did you win with that crew, you think? A little bit. What is that? There's 70 for you. I was going to say you got, you got Peterson is your seven? That's not bad. that's not bad. All right, last thing, I mean, you mentioned kind of the pressures. And this is a bit of a trope.

So I don't want to like, I don't know, I don't want to like bring up something. But you look at the four teams left. You look at all the noise out of Toronto or, you know, another year without a Canadian Stanley Cup. Do you think it's any coincidence as somebody who's coached in Edmonton and Toronto and also, you know, you coached in Antio, any coincidence that the four remaining teams are, you know, Dallas and Carolina and Vegas. You know, these team in Florida that can kind of do what they have to do without the major distractions? Well, I don't think it's the main reason. Like, I think into the final four, it's like all these little margins, these little tiny slices of a pie that go your way.

Like, you know, it could be locked. It could be all these different things. But I will say this. it certainly doesn't help. And like if you're in a Canadian market, so like, you know, I coached in Edmonton and I coached in Toronto. And I know the challenges.

And it's amazing how, you know, I haven't coached in one of those markets now in over eight years. But being up there for hockey night in Canada, I got the real quick reminder. And the biggest thing that comes to my brain is like, I think if I ever work in a Canadian market again,

I think it's almost, like you need to really push discipline. And the discipline and the awareness of, okay, what really matters? Does the do all of these people with all of these cameras and all of these recorders and all of these people on Twitter and all these people on Instagram or TikTok or whatever you're doing on social media, like, do they really matter to you? I think what matters to you should be what your family thinks, what your dad thinks and your mom thinks.

But it's a difficult time for athletes. And they're all on social media. That's just the way it is. But to have the discipline and the tools to understand what really matters, because our brains work in a really interesting way. And it's a really simple process. if I was to give you guys a compliment right now, then you would take it. You'd feel pretty good about it.

If I was to say something negative to one of you, it would subconsciously affect the others that hear it. But it's going to hit you or affect you 10 times harder than that compliment I give you. And if you go on Twitter or social media, I get it all the time. I've been teaching my 14-year-old daughter about social media by showing her things that get sent to me. Look, this is why you don't have an Instagram account and I don't ready for it. And he thinks.

So I do think it is more difficult. I think the players in Canadian markets are really passionate markets. I think they carry more than other markets. And I think it's just a great reminder to everyone that, man, instead of lighten these poor kids up on social media, maybe send them something positive every once in a while. But that's hard to come by on social media. And I think it's a really difficult thing for these players to get through. You know, the hard thing for me, Dallas, is I know some players are really good about even

not going on social media or whatever or not reading, like legitimately. But you know, when you talk about what's important, it's your family, it's then when they hear from their family that's like, hey, sorry you're dealing with like, they'll send a message that they think is being helpful because they're getting crushed on social. And the family's like, hey, I saw that, you know, I got your back. And the player's like, well, I don't even know what you're talking about. I'm trying to shield myself from that. It's when the families get looped in and they're impacted.

I think that people don't realize that. Yeah. And you've got to train your family the same thing. Yeah. We've gone through in our home. And this goes way back to when I was in Edmonton where, you know, my, hey, my greatest defender, and there's somebody you don't want to screw around with is my wife. like she will cut your throat man like for you cross me and you know we we had to go through the

process in edmonton there just to go hey like just stop and it's kind of like what i just said you like do we really care what this person thinks of me it's i don't even know who it is and um that's just how i wrap my head around and i've just really simplified it like i see stuff sometimes and it's usually that way though it's usually one of my buddies is or somebody goes hey like did you see this and I was like well no now now I have but I kind of laugh at it now I'm just I just think it's pretty funny that somebody actually takes time out of their day to like send you some nasty message and and then like criticize your work where you have one of the top jobs in your field and they're

doing something that they're probably really miserable at. Yeah, that's probably, yeah, that's probably the psychology of it, right? And you guys get it too. Like, I, I, I'm trying, I'm trying to jump here and be like, yeah, I know what you're, I know what you're going through because God knows I wasn't a hockey coach in Edmonton, but yeah, it's completely true. Like, right? And the stuff about one negative comment having a way, it, it, you got, you got to not let

the, I mean, it's a very, one bad apple's blowing the blunt the bunch is a, is, is, is a cliche, but it's, but it's true. Like, it poisons the well in some regards. And that's tough. And that's a tough element of, you know, behavioral science to get into if you're, if you're a, if you're a hockey player with all these other concerns, right? Well, and like, so think about that right now. And this is where it's like, it's scientifically proven about the negativity to the positivity.

So think about this right now. We're talking about Edmont and Edmonton and Toronto. And what have we been talking about the whole time? Yep. Negative, negative. Negative stuff. I can go down the, I can take you for an hour right now on my positive experiences in Toronto, my positive experience. Not interested in that, Dallas.

Come on. No. What's the worst thing someone's ever said to you on the internet? Let's talk about that, right? Like, I know. It's, it's wild. Yeah. It's amazing how our brains work, but that, that's the reality of it.

Well, Dallas, thanks for doing this. I know you probably, like us, want to go for a run after this and exercise. That's what I'm doing after this. I'm going for a run. Are you really? Good for you. All right. But we always, always insightful.

Always appreciate your time, Dallas. Thanks so much for doing this. Hey, anytime, guys. I appreciate it. Great stuff is always from Dallas. Man, it's funny, we were talking before we recorded. And he was talking about how he's had to readjust from kind of coach speak media to, like, actually sharing insightful things.

And boy, I know, I meant to. Well, we didn't have to. He was great. He was insightful. This was not coach speak. It was, it's awesome. If Dallas wants to stick in this profession,

I think we'll have an easy time. We'll happily move out of the way. And also, yes, he has effectively transitioned out of coach speak where he was open. Like, get up there for 10 minutes and not say anything. Said some stuff there. That was helpful. That was great.

Coming up next. Say it. The only good segment. There you go. The only good segment on the show. We'll be right back. This is the only good segment on the show. So let me wait into the comment section. Who's braver than us for doing stuff like this, you know?

So brave. Now I'm scared to read a negative one. He is right about the comments. Firefighters, maybe? Yeah. Braver than us? Oh, who knows? I'm sure.

I know some firefighters. One bad comment. Even when we're doing this, when someone's like, that's all you guys talk about is, and I'm like, oh, man, people hear this. It's really tough. Like, I, like, we're a mess. We're so, I sat, like, I was just trying to sit there and, like, not say anything as he brought that up, because God knows. Say, Dallas Aiken's wife, for example, faces a lot significantly nastier, you know, caliber of stuff. And I have to deal with for writing about Matthew Kajuck or whatever, but it's tough.

Tough life. Like I said, we're like coal miners or something. It's, it's very, very difficult work we're doing here. So hard. Thomas H. Athletic H. Tuesday fill in power rankings. Are you ready for these?

Oh, yeah. Okay. Number one. That's great. Thomas's ranking. I'm inclined to agree with them. Okay. Number one, Shana.

Number one, Shana. She's the goat. Even Sean McIndoo can't take her down. Absolutely not. God knows he tried. McIndoo is a mean guy. Very mean Number two

Max Bolman Everyone likes Maxie That's true So good Have you met someone who doesn't like him? Mm-hmm Max, me too We'll talk offline

Okay Just want to make sure On the same page there Like a lot of people Yeah You have no idea It's all an act That's mean

Number three Speaking of mean people Jeremy Rutherford Brought John Ham With him Thomas says Which is true That alone

Is enough To If you are going to fill in, come with an A-list celebrity. That's what I would say. Bring the goods. Number four, Craig Custin's. Does it fill in? Solid all the times he fills in.

Listen, I'm just here to fill gaps, folks. Thomas H. Thomas. Swish. There will be a one day. So what people don't realize this has just been, remember, well, remember that show. It was like you could try out for Sports Center and rotate and then they picked somebody. Dream job.

what this should be. I think at the end, this is like a bit of a dream. Because co-hosting with you, Sean, as we all know, is a dream job for somebody. For Dallas sake. He's coming for your job. Then one day, that'd be great. Then I can fill in. That's my dream.

That's my dream job. Like you bring me in like once every six months. 100%. That's it. That's always fun. You can just come in, come in hot. You throw gas for a couple hours and be like, all right, see you later. I'm out.

See you later. basically what I'm doing here. Eric A says, excellent list in a sick Craig Byrne. Well done, sir. I like... We love it. Adam P. with a functional question here, what is the origin slash purpose of the coin jingling sound effect when you say this is the only good segment on the show?

Ah, good question. Long time listeners will remember that segment was briefly called like hour two cents or something. It is no longer. It's the only good segment on the show. But we kept the sound effect because we like it. fun. It's a nice little signifier that we've moved away from actual conversations with important people who decide to waste their time with us. So we're keeping it. Sorry if that's a problem, Adam P. It is confusing. We used to say, I don't even know if we even said my two cents.

I think it was like the name of the segment on like our producer's sheet and then just the sound we need we do need more sound effects, Jeff, if you can put like some like air horns. Springs. Hege air horns. Richard S. says if Dudbeat Craig and absentee father, Yan-Mendez has started a secret family-esque second podcast. And I don't find out about it until 18 years later when a graduation party

invite accidentally gets sent to the wrong address, I'm going to be pissed. You guys have apartments in the city. Don't ask questions. There is a secret podcast. The nice guys. Corey E. Two straight weeks, the comments,

working with Craig gone. I think we can rule out that he didn't sabotage the comments before taking his Mexico trip, Dennis Nedry style, which is true. We got those fixed. We got them fixed quickly once we realized that there was, that it wasn't just a problem that was affecting my phone specifically. It was actually... We should have said me and Max talked to Keith Jones last week. Craig, I'm sure you're completely aware of that. He was great. We enjoyed our conversation with him. And Corey is kind of saying as much here. He's saying you can see why Keith was hired by Philly. You can hear his passion about the city.

And every answer had a promotion of the franchise R or two. He seems like a proper fit for team president. And I agree. Like I think I think that's part of the reason that's a that is maybe. And I don't want to say it's an old school president hire. I don't know if that's necessarily correct. But kind of is. It feels like the John Davidson type like, hey,

come out and make you feel great about the city and the franchise? He's not out there with scouting or like submitting draft prospect reports or scouring the waiver. Do you want that from your team president? Do you want your team president weighing in at the draft table? I don't think so. And we said it last week, but I'll say it again. Like we said this with Keith really in one way or another.

This hinges on Daniel Breer. It just does. Like if he's, if he's good as a general manager, if he makes her, if they make the right hires, if he has. has the goods and everyone involved there seems to think believe that he does if he puts that on display this is going to work and if and if and if he doesn't then it won't but having that guy who can be the who can be the public face who can be the message deliver who can be the connective tissue between business ops and hockey ops and who can sit there and gas up a franchise that's

completely lost its way and is in danger of losing its foothold in phillyent to some extent because of the apathy, the deserved apathy that people there have. Like, who better? I'm on board with it. And I'm not just saying this because he talked to us last week and was in a little bit, maybe. No, I'm just joking. I think I'm on record there.

If you're a Flyers fan, you want to get to know Danny Breyer better, I got them back when the full 60 was a thing. There's a great episode because Danny was great talking about, and it was about his transition to being a front office from a player to front office. And you could just, like by the end of it. I'm like, oh yeah, this guy's going to be really good in this role. And Russo got him too in a similar capacity at the GM meetings, which is back, that's back in the feed. So, you know, we'll see what happens.

You can't do it until you do it, but also all the arrows point in the right direction for Danny Breyer. And that's what it's all going to hinge on here. Let's be real. If the flyers dig their way out of this, it's not going to be because of Keith Jones primarily. And if this falls flat, it's not going to be because of Keith Jones primarily. But in that job doing what he seems to be also by the way he is not shut up for the past week like he is doing availability out the yang with anybody who asks right and that's it that's why he's there want to win us over just be super available that's all be nice be nice be nice let's say mean things

i was worried Dallas his interview was like if i say something mean to one of you that's all you you're gonna i was worried he was legit gonna say something mean and then i was gonna be thinking about the rest of the day way to throw me under the bus by the way with him and Paul Marys. Good God. Good God. Wait a second. I do that like at least once a month.

I'm always like whenever someone's like, yeah, people were slinging arrows. I'm like multi-Jean. Look at this. Look at this asshole. You point it and be over Zoom. Aaron L. says, I just want to just get the point about the, appreciate the crack in discussion that went beyond waving around a shooting percentage. But this is what I want to get to.

The PS, if Craig continues to abandon his Tuesday boys' responsibilities, I will have no choice but to unfollow him on good reviews. That's it. vote with your follows. That's the only threat so far that's work. That's how you know. That's how you know. I've got,

I'm up to like 11 friends on Goodreads. And if I lose one of them now. It's how you know a relationship is really over when you start on following each other on social media. Sometimes it's Twitter or sometimes it's, sometimes it's good reads. Alana O, coyotes fans are braver than the Marines. I agree. God bless them for what they've dealt with. And it's, it isn't, it's not over yet.

it's not fair to pull these people through more, through more mud. Eric A is a proud member of the hashtag Gentilions. This is it. We were talking about companions for the Russo army, right, where we need to name people with social media followings. Like, Shane is a thing? Shane is Goldman. I don't know.

I think Eric A just, just coined it. The Gentilians is pretty good. I thought maybe that was on another podcast or something you do with like Greg. with Sinski I don't know about and that's what they call you on there. There's only one of those. Jen, he's upset with me about some pronunciation issues. Sean,

I get that sometimes it's hard to learn the pronunciations for the names of every player in the league, especially the Scandinavians, but Wyatt Johnston isn't that hard. I don't know if I just like, if I just mush-mouthed it because this is, you know, whatever, we've heard about this. This is the second straight podcast I've heard about this on. I must have mush mouth that when I talk.

I know his name is Wyatt Johnston. And I also know that it's Miro Hayskin and Enrup hints. I'm I can nail all the all the skin of navy ones so I think you're pretty good about pronunciations. I'm a little bit of a stickler for it. That's why it always like kind of like like gets my goat to see that I've screwed something up but whatever I mean that's going to be the one you think of the rest of the day that that comment John Stun. I got Haley brought it up to me on Friday and I like threw a shit fit about it while we were recording. Um you always pronounce why it seismic accurate. Seasks that whatever that's

a mistake. But me, like I said, me mushroom-mouthing, Johnston is, you know, whatever. Mark R. Sean, when you asked if I saw someone celebrate like Matthew Kachuk did before, and I said, yes, once, was I referring to watching him celebrate? Or a previous time I saw someone celebrate like that, I'll hang up and listen. Mark R. This is another wonderful Simpsons reference. I just wanted to point this out specifically. Have you ever seen someone throw a shoe? Yes, once. One of the great Simpson jokes ever. There's been a lot written about it. read about it if you're a nerd but that is what I was deliberately referencing

and something I read about Matthew Kachuk Thank you Mark R So I've been Like we introduced the kids of the Simpsons And it's funny and it's great And we've been watching the old episodes That I liked as a kid I'm like hey remember this one

The old ones are funnier and they're like Oh it's good But then there was like three or four references They didn't get to like Dom Mattingly or something And so then we're like Hey let's watch a new one like, that just came out, which I haven't done in years.

Like, I'm always watching. Were they, the kids like, we love this? Because they were dying because it was like, here's an Adam Schaefter joke. And here's a, you know, whatever it was. And my son, you know, my son who's obsessed with that stuff, like they, I get that the Simpsons aren't, you know, I guess it's like Sarah and Live or whatever. But they, the pop culture references were way funnier to the kids now. Yeah.

Which is obvious. Like, they're not getting jokes about the smashing pumpkins or whatever. Or whatever. they're not being written in 1992 by people who grew up in the 70s anymore. Like, there's a whole other frame of reference. That doesn't matter. Season 3 through 9 are still the way to go. Are your kids even, are your kids Gen Z?

Are they what comes after Gen Z? I don't know. Whatever's after. Oh. Who knows? I think, I don't know. Generation AI. The scourge of our society.

I've got one minute to wrap this up. That's it. We're done. Okay. Great. Thank you guys as always. Thank you guys as always for jumping out. Oh, yeah. That's great.

Cut me off. Follow the athletic happy show and the hockey show. Watch the happy show. It's our IPA breakdown. It's only on YouTube at YouTube.com forward slash at sign the athletic hockey show. I take that very seriously now that I'm responsible for building up the YouTube page. Also, did you care before?

No. No, no, no, no, no. Nope. Care a lot now. And hey. Craig Conroy, if you're listening, we'd like to get you on next week. We want to talk Calgary Flames. It would be great.

Craig's a great conversation on this, so I'm looking forward to that. We just got to lock it down. Craig C. Show. Here's your upcoming. C.C. We could just be like, great question, C.C. You got it, C.C. Happy New Year, everybody.

Thanks for listening. And have a great Victoria Day. What's left of it?