The Athletic Hockey Show - Jacob Panetta-Jordan Subban incident fallout, Keith Yandle on the precipice of consecutive games played record, Brad Marchand is great at Twitter, can the NHL ASG be exciting?, Multiple Choice Madness, and more

Episode Date: January 24, 2022

First, Ian and Hailey talk about an incident that took place over the weekend in the ECHL between the South Carolina Stingrays’ Jordan Subban and the Jacksonville Icemen’s Jacob Panetta, in which Panetta taunted Subban with an allegedly racial gesture following an on-ice scrum, and discuss the fallout, including Panetta’s explanation and apology video posted on Twitter, how the media can better handle incidents like this going forward, understanding that even if Panetta’s actions weren’t racially motivated, it doesn’t mean there isn’t a larger racism problem in hockey culture, and much more.Then, shifting gears, they discuss the Philadelphia Flyers free fall, currently mired in their second 10-game winless streak of the season, Flyers defenseman Keith Yandle on the precipice of tying Doug Jarvis’ all-time consecutive games played record of 964 straight games, and whether Phil Kessel, currently at 940 straight games, is destined to break Yandle’s record sooner than later, Brad Marchand’s excellent Twitter escapades, and what exactly the NHL could do to make the All-Star Game more exciting.Plus, to close things out in Multiple Choice Madness, Ian and Hailey answer whether the NHL or the NFL have the worst overtime rules and if they want to see players using props during the reinstated Breakaway Challenge at this year’s All-Star Game or not.And, right now, you can sign up for an annual subscription to The Athletic for just $3.99 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back, everybody. It is a Monday episode of the Athletic Hockey Show. It's Ian Menace Hilley Salveen with you to kick off your week in the hockey world. Ahead in the next hour or so, we'll do a deep dive on that controversial moment from the East Coast Hockey League this weekend that ended with accusations of racial taunting and a suspension. So we'll look into that. Keith Yandel, on the verge of tying a major NHL record on Monday, we'll discuss its history. historical significance and whether or not this is going to just be broken again really soon. Brad Marshand had himself a Hall of Fame weekend on social media.

We'll talk about that. We'll answer a listener question about trying to improve the All-Star game and making it a little bit more important. And we'll wrap up the show as we always do with a little multiple choice madness as we discuss. Which league has a worse overtime format? The NHL in the regular season or the NFL. And I'll tell you what, Haley, that NFL, it was tough. I spent Sunday, Saturday and Sunday, Ottawa played back-to-back games. Can you imagine me?

Sunday night, Haley, while the rest of the sports world is melting down on those two games that ended in dramatic fashion, I am watching Senators' Blue Jackets, and then I'm writing a post-game story off of that while everything is going on. So I hope you have a little sympathy for me. Yeah, I can't relate to that situation. because I was on my couch all afternoon. I've been trying this thing while the flames have had a sparse schedule that's called work-life balance. And I actually didn't do any work on Sunday.

And it was crazy. Good for you. And I just watched football. And it was an insane, insane, like really fun weekend. Those games were incredible. The Bucks game. I think I saw a tweet from one of my friends and it was like, I need a cigarette in two hours before the next game starts.

Because the way that that Bucks Rams game ended was great, like wild, wild. Sorry if you didn't watch this, Ian. And then it's like, okay, let's get right into the next one. I was like, I'm not ready. I need a minute. I need a break. My heart can't handle it. Yeah, no, no. While that was going on, I was watching a grand total of three goals get scored between Ottawa and Columbus. So some really good neutral zone play is what I was watching.

At least, Tzla, didn't he score a pretty nice one? Yeah, he scored a really cool, highlight real goal. That was cool. Like, you know what, though? And people are coming out of that NFL weekend saying, that's the greatest either day of football or weekend of football ever. Like, I don't know that we've ever had that in hockey where we came out of a weekend. The thing I remember, I always think about when people say that that's the greatest day in hockey or whatever. I think of that crazy day in the summer of 2016 when P.K. Sub-Suban got traded for Shea Weber, Stephen Stamcoast re-signed, and then it was the infamous Taylor Hall for Adam Larson trade. All of that went down in like an hour. And I was like, this is the craziest day in hockey history.

But I'm having a hard time. Maybe our listeners would be able to help us out. Finding a day where you were just like, wow. Like I am blown away by back to back to back to back hockey games or a weekend that you'll just never never forget, right? Yeah, I think just like recency bias speaking, I thought it would the first round of the playoffs last year was incredible because you had, I believe it was the first round because you had that great Tampa Florida series. You had Craig Anderson coming in and playing really well for the Caps against the Bruins. I just remember, and then you had that really fun Nashville Carolina series. And I don't know if all three of those games were all in one day.

And I think that was the first round of the playoffs. I think. Yeah, Nashville, Carolina was first round, yeah. Yeah. And then it was Boston and Washington. Then you had the Florida Tampa series. And I remember that first round of last year, I was coming out of those days being like, oh, my gosh, this is the best.

Like, I don't want the first round to end. And then the rest of the playoffs for me was just kind of blah because it was like, all right, Tampa's going to go and win again, whatever. Like I had no real vested interest after the first round that playoffs because there was just so many really good games every day. I don't know if I came out of a single day being like, oh, my God, that was the best. I think like that first Florida Tampa game, though, I was like, holy crap, give me more of this. Oh, it's a best of seven series.

Perfect. But that comes to mind. the first round last year was super fun. Definitely not on the NFL's level from yesterday, though. No, you're right. Florida Tampa last year was one of those, you know what, inject this into my veins type of series. And that was pretty cool.

But listen, the one thing, if you are on a weekend in which the NFL took front and center stage with the play on the field, I think some stuff not involving the NHL, but sort of almost in a on-ice, off-ice, sort of situation, Haley, took center stage. So just to get our listeners a little bit of familiarized with this story, because this is from the East Coast Hockey League. And I understand that there's not a lot of people that are paying attention to the Jacksonville

Iceman and the South Carolina Sting Race. But here's what happened. On Saturday night, there was an altercation on the ice involving Jacksonville defenseman Jacob Panetta and South Carolina. opponent Jordan Suban. Suban is black and is the younger brother of New Jersey Devil's Defenceman P.K. Suban. And so as the video of this surfaced,

the only way to kind of describe this to our listeners, I know a lot of you have seen the video, but in case you haven't, I think, Haley, the only way to sort of try to describe the incident on the ice was the two players, Panetta and Suban, are kind of face to face with each other. An official comes in to sort of break it up. And then Panetta makes a gesture towards Suban. And this is where, Haley, this is where obviously there's room for interpretation, right?

And really, the initial thought from Jordan Suban, which he certainly made very clear after the game, and his brother amplified that P.K. Suban did. on social media, was the feeling was that the gesture that Panetta made towards Suban was that of a monkey gesture, mocking him because he's black. We're going to play some audio for you in his second from Jacob Panetta because he spoke out on Sunday and says it wasn't racially motivated. It was the tough guy act.

It was the, you know, Tom Wilson has done it. Other players have done it where they're just trying to make themselves look tough. They're flexing. It's a flex. before we play the Panetta comments here, because I think it's very important to play that for context, and I think we can have a very nuanced conversation about this. I want to know what was going through your mind, Haley.

As you saw this play out on Saturday and into Sunday, and you saw the video, did your mind go to where I think all of us went and where P.K. Suban and Jordan Suban felt it went, which was it crossed the racial line. Yeah, well, because I had seen what Jordan and P.K. said on social media before I watched the video. And so I wasn't going into that clip thinking like, oh, do I believe them or not? Like I immediately, like, you know, I just, I read what they had to say. I believed what Jordan had to say about it and what he saw directed at him. And you watch the clip and it lined up. Like I had no reason to go into that and think, like, Like, I'm going to find a way to poke holes into what Jordan Suban is saying happened to him over the weekend. So I watched the video and, you know, I didn't think of ways to justify the behavior because there isn't one. We can get into the apology after we run the clip.

But, like, to me, I think what went through my mind is like, you know, I wasn't surprised. It wasn't like a shock. Like, oh, my God, I can't believe this is happening. I think if you believe, I think if you're surprised, you probably haven't been paying attention. I know we all like to say it's 2022, why is this still happening? And I agree with that sentiment. But like, this isn't the first incident that even happened in the last few days. Like, this happened to another player in the league just a couple days before.

It was like two racist incidents, or we can call it alleged racist incidents, to two black players in the minor leagues over the weekend. And so it's frustrating. It's disheartening to know that these players have been experiencing this for their entire hockey careers experiencing this still when they're just trying to go and play a game that they love and do what they want to do for a living. I can't put myself in those shoes.

I don't know what it's like to be them in this situation. But I, you know, I just, it's sad. And you just want people to feel safe and comfortable in their workplace. And it seems like they're not able to because incidents like this keep happening. Yeah. And like you said, this comes on the heels of the American Hockey League last week, suspending San Jose prospect, Christoph Harabic, for 30 games after he directed a racial gesture at Tucson forward. Imama and Imamah has faced that multiple times. Now, I think this is really important. And I want our

listeners to just take a moment, take any thoughts. And I know it's hard because this, this can be a very emotionally charged conversation. You can come into it with preconceived notions. You can come into it with your own biases. And I think it's important if you can try and just for the next three minutes, try and listen to the words of Jacob Panetta. and I think on the other side of this, I think we can try to have a better conversation here once we kind of get inside his headspace. So have a listen. This is on Sunday. Jacksonville defenseman Jacob Panetta, after he was suspended by the East Coast Hockey League after this incident, gives his side of the story.

My name is Jacob Panetta, and I would like to address the incident that happened between the South Carolina's sting race this past Saturday in the East Coast Hockey League. Jordan Sueann and I were talking in a heated manner when the last. linesman got between us. When the linesman was between us, I said to him, you're only tough once the refs get involved. And I did a tough guy bodybuilder-like gesture towards him. I've made the same bodybuilder gesture to non-racialized players a number of times when there have been on ice confrontations. There's video from previous games which demonstrate this. My actions towards Jordan were not because of race and were not intended as a racial gesture. I did not contemplate at the time that it would be perceived by some as a racial gesture.

And I attempted to convey this to Jordan when we were sent to the dressing room during the game. I was confused after the incident until I saw and told how people viewed it because of the players involved. I want to reiterate that no racial slurs, noises are anything of like, were said by me during the incident. I see now from Jordan's reaction that he and others certainly viewed it as a racial gesture and that my actions have caused a great deal of anger and upset to Jordan, his family, and countless others.

I want to express to everyone, and especially Jordan, that my actions were not racially motivated at all. I sincerely apologize for the pain and suffering and anger that my actions have. caused to him, his family, and everyone who was hurt by this. However unintentional my actions were, I acknowledged the impact of my gesture and will commit to better understand the impact going forward. Those who know me understand that this gesture was not intended to be racial. This is not who I am.

It is not how I have been raised. But at the same time, I need to, and I will learn from this. Racism and other forms of discrimination have no place in society, including hockey. I believe that before and I still believe that now. I intend to fully participate in ECHL's ongoing investigation in this matter, and I will continue to try and reach out and contact Jordan and the Subman family to express my regret. I want to thank the people who gave me the chance to play in Jacksonville and play professional hockey, and also my teammates for the opportunity to play for them.

Thank you. All right. And, you know, Haley, what this video is done, and obviously on a podcast, you're just hearing the audio, is it has certainly split the room. You got people saying, ah, he's faking it. He's covering his tracks. This is written for him by a PR person.

Listen to the staged nature of the apology. I don't buy it. You get the other half of the room saying, aha, cancel culture strikes again. You guys just jumped down this young man's throat when he didn't have the intentions. And look, the room is filled with emotions. The couple of things I want to point out that I appreciated from Jacob Panetta's apology here. You know, one thing I liked Haley from what he said was he said, however unintentional my actions were, I do acknowledge the impact of my gesture,

and I vow a better understanding of that impact going forward. Like I appreciate that. You know, I think for you and I and our listeners to sit here in some sort of arbitrary court and dole out a ruling, is he sincere? Yes or no? I don't think it matters. And I think you said this to me before the show, and I'm going to allow you the platform to say it here to our listeners.

that apology, how it lands, it only really matters to one person, doesn't it? Yeah, I think that, I think it, you know, do we accept Jacob Panetta's apology? Do our listeners accept his apology? I think at the end of the day, what matters is if Jordan Suban accepts Jacob Panetta's apology because that he was the one who the gesture was made at. he is the one who felt like he was put in that position. Like that, you know, we are all watching this play out. We are analyzing the situation. Fans are reacting to the situation, but like, we're not the ones who, who just felt like we were racialized. Like, I apologize. I don't

know what the, the right word to describe what was done to Jordan Suban. Like, we aren't the ones who, who were put into that spot. So I think what matters, is if Jordan Suban accepts that apology and how Jordan feels. Because at the end of the day, this is a wider issue. I think when you, you know, pull the lens back and you look at it, there is a bigger picture conversation to be had. This is a bigger picture problem. But at the core of it, this is something that happened between two people.

And if, you know, Dan from the suburbs or Ian and Haley from Calgary and Ottawa accept the apology, it doesn't matter as much as how Jordan Suban feels about it. Yeah, no, it's a fair point. And I think, you know, what, the only thing I don't like is now you've seen in the last 24 hours, here comes the people saying, everybody rush to judgment and look at this and it's typical cancel culture. Like, I understand it. Look, this is what I want to make very clear to people, okay? Two things, it's possible for two things to be true. okay and just hear me out on this it's possible for two things to be true it's absolutely unequivocally

possible that the young man involved in this incident jacob pinetta is telling the truth and that he had no racially motivated intentions behind that gesture and that there was nothing racially motivated behind what he did and we can take him at face value that can absolutely be true simultaneously it can also be true that racism exists in hockey i think I think there's so many people looking to jump on this with this aha moment with, see, you guys are just, you're creating stories where there isn't one. Okay, this one may not have been a story, but it is a story in a broader context. It's no different than, if you recall Haley, and now I'm blanking on Jesse Smollett, the actor,

who a couple of years ago, of course, infamously claimed he was. the victim of alleged kind of a racist attack. And then at the end, it turned out he wasn't. And then everybody's saying, look, this is what happens. It's all things. No, two things can be true. Jesse Smollett could have fabricated his story, but racism still exists.

And it's not unlike in NASCAR where Bobba Wallace, remember the huge story, where Bubble Wallace, his crew goes back to his garage, and they're like, oh, my God. there's a noose hanging inside the garage. And it created this talking point. And it did create a very poignant moment

where all the drivers of NASCAR kind of rallied around them. And then, you know, a few days later, the investigation comes out and says, well, actually, that's just the way that the rope was tied. It was not meant to send a message. And then you get all these people jumping in and say, look, we overreacted.

And so there's a few things that we can learn from this. And absolutely unequivocally, one of the things we can learn as media members is to take a breath and not to rush to judgment. And maybe, you know, if I go back and I look at my timeline on Saturday night, I absolutely retweeted that incident and said another racist incident in hockey, and this is garbage. And now I have to answer for that.

And so my answer to that is I rush to judgment. And in that case, I think maybe I was wrong, but I need to be better about allocating my rage. And I think so much of, like, I think what people don't like, they don't like performative measures. So when somebody just jumps on Twitter and retweets things and like, let's work on just being better people instead of being so performative. And I think maybe that was my problem on Saturdays. I rushed to retweet it when I didn't have the facts, right? And so as I sit here now, I take a deep breath.

I say, okay, two things can be true. This young man, Panetta, Jacob Panetta, I don't think if I listen to him, I'll tend, like you said, though, Haley, what I think really truly doesn't matter, but I do sense the genuine pain in his voice, and I think that there's a realization there for him, that he needs to be better,

and if he's able to do that, that's great. But there's still work to be done. I hope people listening to this don't think because this was a swing and a miss that somehow this isn't a problem because it is a problem. And the bigger problem isn't the stuff you see on video that's debatable. The stuff that the bigger problem is the invisible stuff, the stuff you don't see, the systemic racism, the barriers that are there that aren't available on video review or replay. And that's what we need to try and attack in this sport.

Yeah, well, I mean, how many of the incidents, you know, Boko and Mama made a statement when his situation was happening last week. And he said, I've been dealing with situations like this my entire life. And how many of those weren't caught on camera? Probably a lot of them. And how many times has Jordan Suban been put in a situation like that? How long has he been dealing with that? So regardless if we believe Jacob's explanation, I think you can, I think you should be able to sympathize that Jordan saw that and immediately reacted accordingly based on his lived experience. And that's why, like, you know, I don't know if, you know, I would like to know how he feels about the apology. Like I said before, you know, does he feel like that is sincere?

Does he believe him? Is that enough for Jordan Suban to say, okay, I've moved on. However, let's not forget that this is still a serious problem. Like, you know, people are going to land on both sides of this. But I think what everyone on both sides needs to acknowledge, and certainly you hope that people are acknowledging that just maybe if one incident isn't what we initially perceived, it doesn't mean that this still isn't a problem. Because we know it is a problem. And I think one thing I didn't mention that I felt,

and after watching that, is like you're going to tweet about it and use your voice and use your platform to uplift P.K. Suban's timeline, to uplift what happened to Jordan Suban and why it's an issue. But I just, sometimes you feel it's just like, you do feel like you're like making a tweet. And it's like, what is this doing for anybody? What is us tweeting about this doing for Jordan Suban, for Boko and Mama, for any, you know, bi-pac athlete person in sport and their own job, like, what is any of this doing for anyone to make their situation better? And, you know, we can say we're watching the videos. We can say we're listening and learning, but, like, what is that actually, like, tangibly doing for these people? Because you can tweet

all you want, but if you're a crappy person, if you're not a real ally, it doesn't mean shit. So that was my feeling. I was like, I'm just tweeting about this? Like, what, what am I doing? Like, what am I doing for this person? But if you don't tweet, then you feel like you're not using your platform properly. And so this isn't about you and I, like I said before, but it's just like in those moments, you just feel so sincerely for the people who are going through that. And you just wish there was like, I don't know if it's just, I'm sure it's not just me. I'm sure there's people listening in you. In those moments, it's like, I wish there was like something more tangible that I could do right now. Yeah. Other than hit send tweet. I agree with you. You know what? I think

you really you really hit the nail on the head there. I think sometimes we are, you know, we hit tweet and that, yeah, it's not enough. Like retweeting this isn't enough. Yeah, my day, I tweeted about some social justice issues. I'll see later. And that's what people like. I did what I had to do today. Yeah. And it's about rolling up our sleeves. You know what I, you know what I, speaking of kind of some sort of performative tweets and the things that I don't like. And this comes on the week of, you know, Willie O'Rey is honored by the Boston Bruins. It was Dr. Martin Luther King Day in the United States last Monday. You saw a lot of NHL teams tweeting out about those two things.

You know what I think would be better? Instead of tweeting out quotes from Dr. King or from Willie O'Rea, why don't you tweet out the number of visible minorities and people of color that you have in your employ? I'd like to know. Like how many teams in the National Hockey League would be willing to say out of the 200 employees we have, these are the following, this is the breakdown of what we have. This is, these are the people of color that we have working in our organization with a voice. This is the number of women we have in our organization with a voice.

And that to me would be more useful than a tweet with a screen grab quote, Dr. Martin Luther King about how we need to be better and then trying to apply it to the sports world. And that's what I would like to see. As we talk this out about what do we want to see beyond, you know, big platform media members and organizations tweeting about this, I like to see some real action. I'd like to see some accountability here from even the NHL.

They put out a statement after the incident in the East Coast Hockey League. It was like, this is just a boilerplate statement. Yeah. I didn't even read them. Yeah, it's a word salad. Yeah, I was like, I don't, I don't need to, Nope. I think one statement said like we, one of our core values is one love and I was like, nope, I'm done. I read that. I was like, nope. Yeah. I'm out. This is, nope. Check that. Yeah. Be better. Exactly. But, but, but when we say be better, I think we also need to be better. I think so like, and again, and it goes to just tweeting things. It's, it's, It's, you know, what did we learn? Like, we can't go into every situation saying we know the answer. And so I'm going to look at this Jacob Panetta thing and remember this and say, okay, I need to be better to take a breath and let it breathe for a day or two. And then maybe weigh in on it when we have a little bit more context, which I feel like what we're doing here on this show.

But again, this is a very complicated situation. And I'm very mindful of the fact that people come into this with preconceived notions. It's very hard to get people to change. their minds on on certain things. And if you come into a into a discussion and you're, you're hell bent on on looking at it in one way, it's going to be awfully hard. And I think that's, I got to do a better job of being a little bit more flexible and understanding as well. Yeah. I think for me, I think, you know, having these kind of difficult conversations is important, but still I kind of stick with at the end of the day. I am not the person who was racially,

I guess racially abused is probably, I said before racialized. and I said, I apologize. I don't know if that's the right way. But I think if you're not the person who was racially abused, we don't get to accept the apology on behalf of Jordan Suban. So I think while having these conversations and using our platform is important, it's not for us to say, we believe you. I accept your apology, Jacob.

That is for Jordan Suban and Jordan Suban only, because he's the one who was put through what he was put through. All right, Haley. Listen, why don't we focus on some NHL-related stuff going on? And as we look at the schedule for Monday night, boy, the Philadelphia Flyers are in a free fall again. I mean, before we get to Keith Yantle here, I know there's so much oxygen in the hockey world

has been taken up on the Edmonton Oilers. I got to tell you, I feel like the Philadelphia Flyers are right there. The second time this year they've undergone a or endured a 10-game winless skid and man, I don't, I don't even know what to say about the Philadelphia Flyers here, but boy, it's a mess there in Philly. Yeah, I mean, I think this is a time where you kind of look at the off season that they had. And, you know, we talked about this before being in Calgary. I think the flames and the Flyers were in somewhat similar positions where I was like,

we need our goalies to bounce back. We need Markstrom and Carter Hart to be better. but other than that, like, we need to make big changes within our group. And the Calgary Flames didn't feel they were able to make big changes. They kind of stood Pat, signed Blake Coleman, signed a couple of depth guys, did their thing. And then the Flyers, like, made change, change, change. And a lot of those changes, well, it looked like they had this really active offseason of trying to get themselves out of, you know, the middle.

The middle is death. They were trying to get themselves to be, you know, a consistent performer. A lot of those moves ended up being really quite inconsequential for the Philadelphia Flyers. And now they're in this spot where, yeah, they've lost 10. There's already been a coaching change. What else can change here? What is going to happen? We're seeing, you know, legitimate, you know, there is probably a possibility that

if they decide to tear it down and just go right down to the strips, you know, could Claude Drew be available at the trade deadline? Who else can be available? Who else are the Philadelphia Flyers going to move? And it's a mess. Like I was looking at their books on cat friendly. Like they don't have a ton of flexibility. So, you know, committing to a full rebuild, like they're really going to have to tear that down if that's what they decide to do.

Is it going to be the same general manager who's doing that rebuild? Or are they going to try to find somebody else with a fresh vision who can take control of the organization? Like, I really don't know what's next for the Philadelphia Flyers. But it's not great in Philly right now. No, it's not. So we'll see what happens. But I remember I found, I remember saving a tweet from Charlie O'Connor. I found it when I was doing some research in the summer.

And it was like, the flames really need to do something here. Like, what the hell are the Calgary Flames doing? And I, and I bookmarked it and I said, it'll be really interesting to look at the halfway point and see how these two teams with similar problems in the off season. They did completely different things to try to fix it or not fix it. I don't think you can say the flames fixed anything. than having a better coach behind the bench this season starting at camp. But it's been really interesting for me to watch both these teams go completely different

directions in the off season and go completely different directions in the standings. Yeah, it's, boy, Philadelphia, it has been, like I said, a free fall in Philly. But they do have something to look forward to on Monday as Keith Yandel is set to tie the NHL record for consecutive games played. Haley on Monday, he'll get to 964 if all goes smoothly and tie Doug Jarvis. And I wonder what you think of this streak because what's funny is when you look, if you're Keith Yandel, there's a couple of things here. First of all, Andrew Cogliano should have broken this record or could have broken this record.

Remember, Cogliano a couple of years ago, was sitting at 860, I think it was, no, sorry, 830 games. So he was about 100 games and changed shy. And remember he got suspended for, and I remember there's a great conversation should the league have suspended this guy. It wasn't the worst thing in the world. He had never been suspended before. But his streak ended because of a suspension.

But as you look at this all-time record, look in Yandel's rearview mirror. And there's Phil Kessel. Phil Kessel is right on his heels. Kessel's at 940 games. So I guess my question to you is, do you think that, okay, Yandel's going to get it,

and maybe at some point in the next couple weeks, he's a healthy scratch or he's traded, I think there's probably been some pressure to not make him a healthy scratch. That'll happen. Do you think Phil Kessel, who is 24 games behind him, will end up breaking this streak

at some point in the next season? Yeah, I mean, First, it's great for Keith Yandel. I do, we're recording this in the morning, so I do hope that he plays on Monday, like we should say, like he has a chance to, you know, have that perfect attendance and have the new Iron Man streak if he does play. So he'll match that at 964 on Monday night when Philly plays Dallas. And then he'll set the Iron Man mark of 965 on Tuesday against the New York Islanders. if he plays in that game again. But yeah, I mean, I think it's possible.

I mean, do we think Phil Kessel is going to keep playing? I think that's the question. I mean, is there a reason for Phil Kessel to no longer play? I mean, he's been healthy to this point. It's always such like a jinx to have these conversations, right? 25 games when you're talking about 965 plus seems like a lot. But, I mean, Kessel has been an Iron Man. I think whether he holds the streak or not, I think being able to play and be healthy for such a long period of time is impressive, regardless if you have that record or not.

I think that that probably needs to be said. I mean, to know that you're going to have this guy reliably in the lineup for the better part of 14 seasons, I think, is really impressive. Do I think Phil Kessel can pass it. I guess that depends if Phil Kessel ends up playing half a season or more longer than Keith Yandel and he continues to stay healthy. I don't know if I want to make a bold prediction on that, though. I don't want to end up being like the Tuesday show who like talks about people or has them on the show and they like have injuries that keep them out of the lineup long term.

So I'm not going to touch that. Okay. So and I think, but in hockey to me, the most unbelievable Iron Man street. is that of the goalie position where a long-time goalie Glenn Hall once played 502 consecutive games. Like that ain't being broken. Imagine playing 502 straight hockey games. Where was his backup?

As a goalie. I don't think they had, did they have backups in the, I mean, was this in like the 1950s? I don't know. I have no idea. I think they just, like the coach would suit up. and like end up being, like, take his suit off and end up being the goalie. Like, it's, it's weird. So, 5002 games, that's the most impressive Iron Man streak, but a tip of the hat to Keith Yandel.

Okay, here's a quick question for you. So 964 games is the all-time Iron Man streak, consecutive game streak in the NHL. Real quick. So the all-time record, do you know who holds the all-time record for most consecutive games played in the NFL? is and what that number is? Okay. It's Brett Favre 2197 straight games that Brett Fav started. That's remarkable because you think of the physicality, the position he played,

like to play 297 straight games. That's the record in the NFL. In Major League Baseball, I think most people know it's Cal Ripkin. He played more than 2,600 games in a row. This is one I had no idea. was the, I was just curious with Yandel about to tie the NHL record. I was like, what's the NBA record? Because if you look at the schedule of the NBA, it's very similar to the NHL,

right? It's like 80 games, roughly 80 games, kind of play around the same amount of time over the same number of months. And there's an element of physicality to it and durability. And I had no idea that this was the record. Okay. and the record is 1,192 straight games. Oh my.

Played in the NBA, yeah. By a long time guy, this, I only remember this guy a little bit with the Lakers, A.C. Green, which is like the coolest name ever, AC Green, 1,192 games. So I don't know, like, I wonder, do you think, here's my last thought on this,

do you think Yandel or Kessel gets to a thousand games in a row? Because A.C. Green got to 1192 in the NBA. Does Yandel or Kessel get to 1,000? They're at 964 on Monday night for Keith Yandel. He would need 30, you know, whatever, 36 more games. No, 34, sorry, 34 more games. How many games the Flyers played this year? I think he could do it this year.

He could do it in the calendar year. Yeah. Yeah, that could be fun. 1,000 in a row. Yeah. Yeah, sure. Why not? Okay.

Speaking of fun, Nickyne. Nobody's having more fun than Brad Marchand these days. I mean, this guy, I got to tell you, hockey players have the reputation of being boring, vanilla,

and doling out generic clips and answers in interviews. Like they are out of the four main sports. They're the most reserved, the least likely to speak out. And then Brad Marchand this week, Haley, I mean, you want to talk about some fun that this guy had. Consider that in just the last week,

he took a run at the Carolina Hurricanes on Twitter. He mocked the Edmonton Oilers basically on Instagram. He took a fan's phone when he was leaving the ice, shot a little fun video. Haley, is there a more likable player, or is there an active social media account that's more interesting than Brad Marshan right now for an active player?

I think his social media is really funny. I think he's kind of got that mantle. I mean, everyone thinks Roberto Luongo's accounts great. And it is. He's very funny. But in terms of an active player, I think Brad Marchand's hilarious. I think him taking the phone's great. Like, this is a player who is having a lot of fun. You can see that. He's got this really, like, whether you love him or you hate him. He has an engaging personality that kind of pulls you in to either say, oh my God, I hate this guy or, oh my gosh, I love this guy. I think some of the things he's done in the ice is kind of a different conversation. I mean, I think he's done some things in games that people obviously have problems with, but in terms of talking about his like social media presence and

being engaging and being that kind of personality. Yeah, I think it's really funny. I think it was really hilarious to see the canes kind of get somebody giving them a bit of their own medicine. Like they've kind of made this brand for themselves through social accounts of being the like spicy clapback team social. And Brad Marchand just like went in. Yeah. With the big one.

You're why we still pay escrow. And I thought it was really funny because there was some people being like, Brad, this is actually why you pay escrow. It's like not now. It's funny. Not now. We don't need the history lesson on escrow payments in the National Hockey League. Just let Brad Marchand be a shit disturber. And I think I like that because I can relate to shit posting on social media. It can be very fun to stir the pot. Like when you are talking about the great effort by the Ottawa senators, they lost six four Ian.

Yeah. They lost six four. So the shit posting is funny. As long as you don't cross the line, as long as you don't cross the line, as long as you. you're not doing it, you know, in a space where it's absolutely shouldn't be. But like, taking the fan's phone is great stuff. You know, I think he's, I think it's great. I think, and he, you know what, I've heard stories about Brad Marchand, like, out in the community and actually being, like, a way better dude than you'd think based on the way that he acts on the ice sometimes. Like, I've heard about things of how great he is in the community. And he's actually a great guy, does a lot of stuff. And do you remember Ian in Ottawa when, forgive me, I don't remember her name,

that really young girl who used to sing the anthem. I don't know if she still does. The first time she sang the anthem in Ottawa two years ago was against the Boston Bruins. The really, really young girl. Yeah, yeah, she's 12 years old. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. What's her name? Do you remember her name?

I'm blanking on it, but I know exactly what you're talking about. Sophie? Sophie? Sophia? I'm so sorry. I don't remember, but for the listeners. there's this young, like, 12-year-old girl who sings the anthems in Ottawa. And one of the first times she did it was against the Boston Bruins.

Tiny, tiny, cute little thing. And she was really young, so this would have been two years ago. She's like 10 years old singing the anthem at NHL game. And Brad Marchand goes over to her after the anthem as they're getting ready to drop the puck to go over and, like, give her like a fist pump and be like, that was amazing. Like, you're incredible. Like, and I always remember that. And he skated over and, like, talk to this girl.

And she's like, oh, my. God. Sophie Pierce. And thanks to our producer, Chris Flannery, for dropping that into our chat. Yeah. Sophie Pierce. And it was right around Christmas time, too. I remember being around Christmas time when he did that because I remember thinking like, oh, maybe like the Christmas spirit has gotten into Brad Marshand. But it's weird because he is one of the most polarizing villainous players on the ice in the last decade in the NHL. Maybe him and Tom Wilson are probably one in one A. And then you see this other side of him, you're like, damn, you're kind of likable. You're kind of likable. And it's, it's interesting. It's interesting to see. And Sophia

Pierce. Yeah. Sophia Pierce. Yeah. And if like you look up Sophia Pierce Anthem singer, one of the top stories that comes out is Marchand congratulates Ottawa singer after stirring anthem. Like he went over and shook her hand. Was it Christmas time? It was like December 9th. It was December 9th. Okay. Yeah. But I remember it. Okay. It's in the Christmas window. My memory wasn't that bad. Like, he, like, skated over and even, like, walked onto the carpet to be like, and he shook her hand. Like, took his glove off, shook her hand. I was, like, that's amazing.

And it was kids night, I think. And it was just like, this is the, this is the polarizing asshole Brad Marchand that people don't like. And he's going over to this girl who just, like, rocked both anthems as a child. I know. And he's like, that was amazing. Nobody else did that. Just Brad Marchand. Yeah.

So. moments like that where you're like, huh, huh, what do we think about you now? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Hey, what do we think about the All-Star game? And the reason why I bring this up, Haley, is we got a listener submission. And we want to invite, look, that Tuesday show with Gentile and Custance, and I love those guys to death. But they take up, wow, they're good guys.

They're good guys. They're great podcast hosts. They're very entertaining. They're funny and informative. But they take up. Their comment, okay, okay, hang on. They take up the oxygen in the comment section. Yeah, well, hang on.

Yeah, well, that in the comment section turns into you guys are the best, like the Monday show sucks. Well, I don't know about that. You know what's the best, you know what's the best part about the Monday show is that I'm one day close to the Tuesday show? That's what someone said once. See, now we got to, we got to strike back and ask our loyal listeners to the Monday show to just drop some comments in there, but we did get one.

Like only nice ones. No, no, no. Only nice ones. If you have something mean to say I don't want to hear it. Yeah. I don't want to improve at my craft. Yeah. I'm just kidding.

Tell us whatever you want. I don't care. But just know that I'm quite fragile. Okay. So we got a question here in the comment section as specifically directed at us in the Monday show. Hey, for an upcoming episode, can the Monday team find some reason to get me excited about the upcoming All-Star game? what would it take to make the All-Star game relevant again? How about awarding home ice advantage in the playoffs

to any team from the winning division of the All-Star game facing an opponent from another division, similar to what they've done in the past with Major League Baseball and the World Series? So would that move the needle at all for you, Haley? This listener is saying, hey, find me a reason to get excited about the All-Star game. You know what I would say, if you want to get excited about the All-Star game, a couple of things. Number one, you've got to just completely drop your expectations.

Like, lower them to the point where they're less than zero. Because I used to, you tell me if you agree or disagree. But, Haley, when I was a kid, I loved the All-Star game. I thought it was so cool to see, like, for me, Mariel Lemieux was like this larger-than-life guy. So to get him to play on the same line as, like, like one of my favorite players when I was a kid was this guy named Matt Snaslin with the Montreal Canadians. And I thought, oh my gosh, I'm seeing Matt Snazlan on a line with Mario Lemieux. This is

awesome. This is so cool. Like, did you feel that way when you were growing up and whether it was Crosby or, you know, whoever in the All-Star game? Did you, were you excited by the All-Star game as like a 10, 10, 12-year-old? I don't really remember, honestly. I think I used to watch the All-Star game. But I don't know if there was like a real excitement over, oh my God, I get to see all these players. I think I always preferred the skills contest. I liked the hardest shot. I would always get really excited to watch that. I loved the fastest skater.

You know, I was a Penguins fan. So I remember watching like Chris LaTang be really good in the backwards fastest skater always because he was really good at that. But I don't think I was ever really like, oh heck yeah. that's the all-star game time. I think I used to get more excited for the NBA All-Star game for like the dunk contest and stuff. But like to answer the question, I think, I think part of the conversation we had last week with Dom is a big one, like get the best players in the All-Star game. And, and I know there was a bit of reaction people saying, like, is Nathan McKinnon basically just trashing like Jordan Eberley and like other guys who made the All-Star team? And, you know, I kind of thought

we were, it's not trashing guys to say that Nazim Kodry is better. Like, I don't think it should be like this big offensive thing that Nathan McKinnon said Codry is a better player in the league right now than Jordan Eberley. Look at where the two teams are on the standings. Look at their statistics. Look at the seasons that they're both having. I think we should be allowed to say we want the absolute best players and the biggest stars to play in the All-Star game.

I think that's the way you make it more entertaining. I think you make it more entertaining by getting the young stars. involved in the game too, and I think they're doing that with Trevor Zegris. Yeah. He's going to be in the skills contest. I think that's a way that you do it. You make the skills contest fun. I don't know if there's a way to make the actual All-Star game fun.

I don't know. I think it's the skills contest you really want to get and just get the best talents, the biggest and best talents. Maybe add, I don't know, maybe if you add some kind of fan element to it. Gosh, I don't know. I don't know. I'm with you. I'm with you on that.

Like, I'm super pumped. Like when they said that Trevor Zegris is going to be there, I'm like, I want that guy there. Like, he's arguably the most dynamic player under the age of 21 in the game today. And you want them there, right? You want them on ESPN and SportsNet and you want everybody. Because most people I'm thinking, outside of that unbelievable play with Sonny Milano, you probably haven't watched a lot of Anaheim Ducks games, right?

Like, if you especially live in the eastern part of North America, You probably haven't seen them a ton. So like get these guys out there, expose them a little bit more. But yeah, I think I'm with you. I'm not sure you can make the game itself any more compelling or interesting. Like anything you do is going to be awfully gimmicky. And I don't know about advantage. Like to me, the whole mice advantage thing,

I don't like it only because if you've slogged your way through an 82 game season and you should be rewarded for ending up with 115 points to the president's trophy. You should not get it because the Pacific team in the All-Star game beat the Atlantic Division. And guess what? All those games that you won at home don't matter. And suddenly there's Game 7 of the Stanley Cup

and you don't get the home ice advantage. I don't know. I don't love that. And I don't know that it would make me more invested in the game itself, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, I just don't know. if there's a way to salvage the game, like I think people are just, I don't know, other than trying

to get the best players in it, I don't know what kind of incentive there is. You know what? I did find the draft quite entertaining. I remember thinking that was kind of funny with the car in like Phil Kessel and like OV. But then Ovi like also didn't, he wanted to go last because he wanted the car or something. Like I found that a little entertaining. Like I think if you can find ways to get these players involved in the All-Star game in a way that they can show their personality more and be engaging with the fan base, I think that's going to help the product. I think anytime, you know, you saw OV in the in the shootout contest, like with the outfits and then you can see like guys going out with their different outfits. Like the NBA dunk contest does it. Dwight Howard going out with the

Superman cape. Like that turned into a big thing. Everyone had the Superman shirts on. I think just finding ways to get these players' personalities out there on that stage, I think, is a way to help make it more engaging and fun for the fans. Anything like, this is about the fans, right? Because being at the all-star game and being an all-star at the end of the year is a completely different thing. Like, players being an NHL all-star at the end of the season when those media lists come out versus the all-star game. Like, one is for the fans, which is the game, I think that is a fan-driven experience. And the other one I think is for the players to say, like, I am one of the top forwards in the NHL right now, first team all-star, second team all-star, heart trophy finalists,

etc. Those are for the players. This should be for the fans. And I think the league needs to find better ways to get the fans engaged in it. And I think the players need to buy in and know that it's important to grow the game. And I get that sucks. Like you're playing 82 games, like you're trying to take it seriously, but like go out and have fun and do something to grow the game for the fan base. It's going to benefit everybody, including you. It's going to be fun. Yeah.

Once again, our way. Our producer Chris Flannery is all over the chat today. He's jumping in. I like this suggestion. What if you let the players have a say in designing the jerseys? Or you allow one player to design the jerseys or, you know, consult with that player. You know, anything for creativity, I'm on board with that. Yeah.

Get the fans to pick the line. rushes. Get the fans to pick who gets to play on Connor McDavid's wing or something silly like that. Hey, listen, that actually brings us to the end of the show and right to multiple choice madness, Haley, because you know what? You kind of answered it. And I have a feeling that I know your answer on this one, okay? The breakaway challenge is back in the All-Star game. First time since 2016. So before 2016, every year there was the breakaway challenge where players would come in, try some crazy move, try a score on a breakaway. And then we did, as you mentioned, we saw Patrick Kane and Alexo Vetchkin and some other players.

They were wearing costumes using props. So here's my question. Haley, when it comes back in a couple of weeks, do you want to see the players in the breakaway challenge, wearing costumes using props? Your options are A, yes, it's fun and it's memorable or B, no. It cheapens the whole thing. I just want to see pure skill on display. Where do you come down on this one? I don't see what's the problem with it.

Like I said, I think if it adds an element of fun for the fans, do it. If it adds an element of fun for the players, do it. You can see their skill while they wear a funny hat. I do believe that to be true. You can wear a hat and still use your hands nicely. So I don't be the thief of joy here, people. Let's see the fun costumes. The Thief of Joy, that's the actual name of the NHL, like Board of Governors Handbook.

It's called Thief of Joy. How do we suck the joy out of the sport that everybody loves? Okay, so I tend to agree with you on this. I think I like it. I think it's, listen, we've got to lean into some things. But, okay, hear me out. Here's my idea for the breakaway challenge. You do it as if it's a, what's the word I'm looking for?

Like charades, okay? So you go You approach the You take the pocket center as you go up And now you're trying to mimic A memorable shootout Or breakaway move from the past And then somebody else

One of your teammates has to guess who you're picking Like maybe you try the Peter Forsberg Or you try the Datsuk Or you try the Kuturov Or you know what I mean And you have to try and get Somebody to guess who you're trying to be. Yes, no, maybe. Terrible idea.

I mean, it's cute. Not every year. You try it one time. You're like, you know what? You're going to have to figure out who is Trevor Zegris trying to be. And he goes... Wouldn't you rather let Trevor Zegris be Trevor Zegris and like pull something out of his hat? For sure. No, no, I'm saying as one of the rounds of the shootout is you do a, it's like a throwback honorary. Like, for all of it, just for one segment of it is, hey, this guy's going to give his best impression of whoever, T.J. O'Shee, or pick, pick a memorable shootout thing. You know, like I said, Peter Foisburg or whatever, and then see if he can pull it off. I don't know. I think we see guys actually pull those moves off like in games live enough now that it's like, do something different and fun. I want to see something different. I don't want to play charades. I want to see you do something

something cool and like a funny hat. I don't want charades. I want something serious. Give me the fedora. It says Haley. All right. I want to see Johnny Goddrow. I want to see Johnny Goddrow doing something absolutely insane while wearing a cowboy hat.

That'd be amazing. That's what I want. Yeah. Get it? Because it's Calgary Stampede? Yeah. No, I think most of our listeners got that, really. Okay.

Yeah. Okay, okay, I got to wrap up. I think the biggest talking point in sports on this Monday is the overtime rules in the NFL. Because the Buffalo bills didn't get a chance to get the ball. And a lot of people are saying they got to change the rules. So I ask you this, Haley, to wrap up this Monday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show, which sport has a worse overtime rule? Is it, A, the NHL, which basically has.

two sets of overtime rules, one for the regular season and one for the postseason and the regular season, they decide games on a shootout, or is it be the NFL rule, which doesn't guarantee that both teams have a chance to get the ball? Which has a, which league has it worse, Haley or has it wrong more when it comes to overtime? The NHL or the NFL? It's the NFL because, you know, the NHL, like I tweeted this, I was like the shootout is better than NFL overtime rules. And it's because, like, the shootout decides regular season. The shootout will not decide the Stanley Cup. You get sudden death overtime. Both teams get to touch the puck. Both teams get their opportunities to score. But in NFL overtime, you know, it's too simplistic to say, you know,

the Buffalo Bills lost a coin toss and therefore they lost the game, you know, because they have the opportunity to stop the drive. Of course they do. It's not just as simple as the coin toss. But, you know, they didn't get the chance to get the ball back and score. And that's where, like, college NCAA football, OT rules are better. The CFL, their overtime rules, you know, both teams get to touch the ball, college football and Canadian football. The NFL, the regular season and the playoffs, the whoever wins the coin toss gets to go down and score on a drive. And like when it's like a cheat code, of course, when you have a.

quarterback like Patrick Mahomes, who got them into field goal position in 13 freaking seconds, by the way, which was like crazy. I was like, how did he just do that in 13 seconds? But, you know, you feel for Josh Allen, he's sitting on the sidelines after having an incredible football game and incredible two games, like nine touchdowns in his last two games in this NFL playoffs. And he gets to sit there and watch and he doesn't get a chance to get his team to score. I don't agree with it. I think whatever for the regular season, fine. I don't think that's right for the playoffs.

I don't think it's right. And people were saying, this would happen to Mahomes in 2018. No. Against Brady, 2018? Yeah. A game that went to overtime. Yep. You know, Brady gets the ball in overtime and they score on the first drive and Patrick Mahomes

gets to sit on the bench and watch it happen. And, you know, people still thought it was stupid then. Don't get it twisted. Like, it's dumb. Change the freaking rule. But don't you find it, okay, do you find it dumb that the NHL, first of all, shootout games, you know, could be worth more in the standings in terms of three, like there's three,

now you're into three point games and the goals from shootouts don't count. What bothers me the most is the NHL has instituted a rule for shoot, for overtime play that they know isn't good enough for the playoffs. Like, they're the only rule of league that really seems to change it that much. I guess, although, I mean, I guess Major League Baseball has started to alter their, you know, putting it, you know, thinking about, you put a runner on second. But are you okay? Like, I don't know. I just, ah, I'm torn on this one because I wish the NHL, if they were going to stick with an overtime format, they just went with, if they just went with three on three for 10 minutes and then we called it a day, I don't know.

The shootout is just, I don't know, it's a little gimmick. I mean, I would prefer them having like a quote, like a gimmick in the regular season and getting rid of it for the playoffs. I think have shootouts are fine. Like they're whatever. Like shootouts like compared to those NFL overtime rules, like it's not the same because both teams get the same amount of pucks and the same amount of opportunity to win the hockey game. That is the big difference for me. The shootout, yeah, it's dumb. It's dumb.

Both teams get to shoot at the end of the day. Yeah. So I think the NFL over time rules are stupid. You know what? That's a fair point. Why do we end the show with you making a good point and me complimenting you? This is your mic drop moment. I'm going to log off now.

Bye. Yeah. She's out of here. All right. Hey, listen, this was a lot of fun as it always is on a Monday. I want to remind you that just leave us a rating and review. Like I said, drop us a review. We certainly appreciate that because you give everybody he writes in about the Tuesday show.

Leave us a note about the Monday show. We want to remind you to subscribe to the Athletic Audio Plus on Apple Podcasts. Get all the bonus content from our entire network. You're going to start with a 30-day free trial. Then it's just 99 cents a month after that. And right now you can get an annual subscription to the Athletic for just $3.99 a month. When you visit the athletic.com slash hockey show.