The Athletic Hockey Show - James Reimer refuses to wear San Jose Sharks Pride jersey, Ottawa Senators ownership update, Florida Panthers threatening for the final playoff spot in the East, and much more

Episode Date: March 20, 2023

Ian, Julian, and guest cohost Mark Lazerus kick off the week with the Monday edition of The Athletic Hockey Show and discuss in depth James Reimer refusing to wear a Pride Night jersey for the San Jose Sharks over the weekend, voting being open for The Athletic NHL’s best goal song in the league project, the Arizona Coyotes falling behind in the Connor Bedard sweepstakes, the Nashville Predators potentially missing the playoffs, the Florida Panthers looking like a real threat to the Pittsburgh Penguins and New York Islanders for the final playoff spot in the East, and more.Plus, Ian gives an update on the Ottawa Senators ownership situation, and the guys close things out with listener follow-ups, the Jack Adams Winner of the Week, and a round of Multiple Choice Madness.Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowStart making your financial dreams a reality with Chime. Get started at http://chime.com/nhlshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Time to kick off your week in the world of hockey. It is the Monday edition of The Athletic Hockey Show. It's Ian Mettis, Julian McKenzie, with you. And tell you what, Julian, maybe this is the foresight of our producer, Chris Flannery. Maybe it's just luck. I don't know what it is. It's a three-headed monster today on the Athletic Hockey Show, the Monday edition.

We've got Mark Lazarus with us. And look, Laz wrote a terrific column on the week. on the James Reimer situation where the Shark's goalie declines to wear San Jose's Pride jersey in the pregame warm up. We're going to get to that. Julian, we got to tell the listeners,

like we book Laz well in advance of this story, right? We did. Yeah. We did. Let's face it, I mean, chances are something like this is going to happen every single weekend in the NHL.

So, you know, if there's a social justice issue in hockey, it's probably going to happen regardless. Like you were saying off the air, it's like, you know, the zero days without. that an incident? You don't need more than single digits in the NHL.

I'm glad that at least that like we're going to talk about like other fun stuff like the poll that you and I and Scott Powers are putting together on an NHO goal song. So that'll be cool. I think we're going to touch up on the Cadeties as well. But the fact that Pride Knights in the National Hockey League are becoming the story that they've become because of players opting out, like I, the fact that the fact that the intention, the well-meaningness of these types of nights, the purpose is sort of being lost in all this.

Like, I really wonder what individual teams will do going forward. I wonder what the league itself will do going forward with those types of nights because I don't want to, I don't want to have, like, teams do these nights. And then my first thing is thinking, well, which guy is not going to wear a prime night jersey? That should not be the point of it. And for a guy like James Reimer, like he essentially made himself the main character of that night, which he should not have been. Okay.

But now here, I'm going to just throw this out and you guys tell me, and I think this is a great debate to have. Sure. How much blame lies with us in the media in terms of, look, 18 guys wore the pride jersey, right? Whatever was on the weekend for San Jose. Do we need to put more? And I know, Laz, you kind of touch on this too, right? In your piece, like, is it, like, should we be focusing on them? Okay, James Reimer didn't wear it.

Ivan Provarov didn't wear it. But should we be doing a better... I thought what Scott Lawton did in Philadelphia is phenomenal, right? What Scott Lawton and James Van Riemstike did was phenomenal. And I wonder, are we a little bit... Like, sometimes with the media, we don't like taking the criticism, right? But I wonder, like, how much of this is balancing... Like, has there been enough done on, you know what?

18 guys wore a jersey on the weekend for San Jose. Or am I wrong on that? I just want to have that conversation. It's tough for me. You know, Sean Jantilly had a tweet the other night about how just exhausting this is to have to have this conversation every single time a team has a pride night.

Because very few of these have gone off without a hedge. Either the whole team has bailed on it to protect a teammate or one guy has stood out like Reimer and Proverov did. And it becomes the story. And yeah, that's, you know, I wrote a column, I think it was last year, about how you just eventually run out of outrage, right? And it gets harder and harder to get worked up about these things. But that's the thing.

That's how you lose this battle is when you start giving up on it. When you start saying, you know what, I just don't want to fight this fight anymore. And we all feel it. We all feel it. God knows, on Saturday, I'm like, you know, I had a poker night that night. Northwestern was playing in the second round of the NCAA tournament. The last thing I wanted to do was sit down and write some kind of column that's going to, you know, be a big deal and require all this. But, you know, you have to keep saying it.

You have to keep pointing it out. Because when we start ignoring it, then that's when, you know, that's when the bigotry wins. That's when the homophobes win. Now, that said, the column I wrote was good for the sharks, right? They didn't do what the Wild and the Rangers did, which was bail completely. They prioritized one teammate getting bad PR over an entire section of their community and the idea of hockey being a welcoming open space. That's cowardly. I don't care if the reasons because of the Russian law.

that's criminalizing, you know, so-called propaganda. I don't care if it's because of someone's religious beliefs. You don't have to prioritize that one person over everybody who pays a ticket to see you, everybody who tunes in to watch you. So that's, I was really glad for the sharks that they said, screw it, we're going to still wear it. And, you know, Connor Murphy had told me, hey, we're going to wear it. And, you know, all the other flyers wore, we need more Scott Lottons.

We need more Van Riemzek. We need more Trevor Van Riemzak. That family's great. We need more Logan Coutour's said, hey, you know what, Reimer's got the right to do what he wants to do. And he's right, he does. But we've got the right to wear these jerse because it means something to us. This is the freaking Bay Area we're talking about.

I mean, of all cities to say, you, gay people, that's not the one to do it. Like, I don't know how James Reimer can play in that city ever again after this. Here's something else I want to add to with regards to media coverage. And this is something that I think the NHL has to deal with more than in the NFL where they have my cause, my cleats. And yeah, everyone on the team is supposed to have their causes. but certain causes or certain cleats stand out more than others or the NBA where it's more of an individual sport and players, it's not necessarily all that uncommon to see a player kind of step up and do their own thing.

But sometimes we've seen players step up as teams and do protests. But the NHL and hockey as a sport has pride, has lifted itself and kind of lifts up its chest with pride as a sport that insists upon doing things as a. team and playing for the logo on the front and not the name on the back as some way to kind of, you know, sort of discourage individuality all in the name of team. A sport that prides itself on that. And sometimes its fans will use that as a way to detract from other sports. You can't have that going on.

And then when an NHL player decides he's not going to wear, this type of jersey be like, oh, well, what's the big deal? Like, there's, like, I find it at the NHL more than any other of these big four sports, yeah, like, it is so much harder to ignore that part of the story because of how they centered themselves as the sport where everyone's supposed to be a team and individuality, again, discouraged, let's be real here. Like, considering the, the, how we beg for personalities to be personalities, we know that is a case because of how they want everyone to be in uniform.

So the idea that someone would not wear a particular uniform is always going to stand out no matter how much we want to big up stories like James Van Rieb Stike and Scott Lotton or any of the fans who were in attendance at that San Jose game. If you look at Marissa and Gemmy's thread where she got to get some stories from queer hockey fans who were at that San Jose game, like we should be talking about that or how the sharks use their platform to discuss how LGBTQIA kids are going to locker rooms and the language that they hear or whether they go into class and what they hear too. Like, we should have been talking about how they use their platform for good.

But because of what James Reimer did and because of the culture of the sport, it is something completely different on its own. And I really think, like, if you're an NHL team, if you're the league and you see that, you know, regardless of wherever you stay. stand on this, which I think there is a right and a wrong here, but wherever you stand on this, I can't imagine you being in the league office and seeing that, you know, a Pride Night thing is happening and all anyone wants to talk about is how a player didn't want to partake. Like, I don't see that as a good thing.

I don't see that as something that is good for your message that hockey is for everyone. Or if you just care about dollars and cents and people getting into it, I don't think that's a good thing for your bottom line. So that's my biggest thing on that. No, absolutely. And I'll tell you what, why don't we let the listeners hear a little, little bit from San Jose goal tenor James Reimer. Rimer did do a media availability. He did release the statement, read the statement and took a couple of questions. Here's a little sampling of

James Rimer and what he said in regards to Pride Day. I get what the message is, you know, I think people are trying to show support for the community and I'm sure people in the community feel marginalized so it's people trying to come along them in a public way and support them. You know, and I think, again, for me, you know, to some extent, you know, that's what you, what you want to do is, is you want to love them, but, you know, where, again, we're mind not to keep, you know, reiterating what I'm saying, but, but, you know, where it intersects for, for a Christian and the way I personally, in the way that people, you know, close to me in my life, interpret the Bible is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is you love them, but you, but you can't, you know, support the, the, the activity or, or lifestyle. All right. So there, there you have it from, from James Reimer, his explanation.

Um, okay, couple things. You know, I, what I really liked on the weekend, Brian Burke, who obviously, this is a, a cause that, um, means so much to him with his late son, son Brendan. And, and, you know, Brian, you know, Brian has. has been at the forefront of this for more than a decade, okay? Brian Burke, I'm just going to read this statement because obviously, you know, Berkees with the Pittsburgh Penguins, he released a statement on the weekend, or he's quoted as saying the following on James Reimer. He says, quote, I repeat that I am extremely disappointed. I wish players would understand that the pride sweaters are about inclusion

and welcoming everybody. A player wearing pride colors or tape isn't endorsing a set of values or enlisting in a cause. He is saying you are welcome here and you are in every single NHL building. I think Brian Burke gets it, right? Like he gets the core of it that you don't have to, if you wear that jersey, you're just saying, you're sending a message that I believe. I guess so the questions would become things like, okay, would James Reimer except a gay teammate.

My guess is no, but I, you know, again, it's a difficult one to walk. I also wonder, guys, is it easy for San Jose to make this decision because James Reimer is set to be a

UFA at the end of the year? I ask you this. And I agree. I really like what San Jose did. They went ahead with it. They used their Twitter feed to just post messaging about the cause all night long.

I thought they really did a great job organizationally. But is it easier to do this, let's say, and I'm just going to throw, think of somebody who's under contract for a long time there, Tomas Hurdle, Carlson, whatever. Could you do the same thing if you had a guy under contract for four or five more years? Or is it easier to do because, hey, look, he's, this guy's done. He's based on age, contract, all that stuff.

I would like to think the sharks, knowing the people in that organization and knowing what Logan Couture said would have done this regardless. The question I have is whether James Reimer would have done it, if he were locked up for four or five more years, if he knew he was still going to be in that, and again, in that city of all cities, if he was going to become some kind of pariah because of his beliefs, I'm not so sure he does it.

I don't know. I can't tell you that, but to me, it's beside the point, right? All of this is beside the point. Any nuance or semantics or any kind of argument you can have of why you wouldn't wear the jersey is, like Berkey said, completely missing the point. Putting on a jersey with a rainbow will not turn James Reimer gay. It will not offend his delicate sensibilities. Just like if they had some kind of Muslim appreciation night and Nazim Kodry was on his team and he put on a jersey, it wouldn't make him Muslim all of a sudden.

That's not much. It's just funny you make up that example because James Reimer tried to use that justification. Right. Which it was just like, you know, it's like the Simpsons, Chief Wiggum, dig up, stupid. Like it just gets dumber and dumber here. Like this, I don't want to, I'm certainly not going to go on a public anti-religion screen. I'm not anti-religion, but. What bothers me is when you have guys who start cherry picking the things they want, right?

They start, you know, oh, I don't believe that, you know, working on the Sabbath is a sin, but I believe that this line that's also in the Old Testament is a sin. And I'm going to ignore these paragraphs and what this guy's all about. And that's what drives me nuts here. I mean, look, I'm a Jew. I have been to church many, many times to celebrate friends' weddings, baptisms, things like that. I have had Christians and Muslims over my house to have a Passover Seder. We celebrate each other's culture.

that way. I'm a Jew. I'm not even a practicing Jew, really, but it matters to me that I'm, it's a cultural, ethnic thing to me. And if I had a friend who said, ooh, I wouldn't go to your house to have a Seder. That's, that would, that would offend my Christian sensibilities. I'd be like, all right, well, you're an idiot then. You don't understand how this works. And I don't know if I want to hang around with you anymore. So James Rimer's telling on himself here. A lot of guys are telling on themselves here. And at least we know about, this is the one thing I'll say. And again, because the sharks still wore the jerseys. We know this about James Reimer now.

He had to go out and make a statement. He had to address the media. We don't know about the Minnesota Wild. We don't know about the New York Rangers. There are certainly cowardly people on that team hiding behind a teammate by not wearing that jersey where they were on the fence about it. That's the problem.

We need more San Jose sharks and more Philadelphia flyers. That's what we need. I just want to go through two parts of James Reimer's statement that really just confound me. And I hope you guys can see the contradiction in that. Let me just, the last two paragraphs of a statement. In this specific statement, in this specific instance, I'm choosing not to endorse something that is counter to my personal convictions,

which are based on the Bible, the highest authority in my life. I strongly believe that every person is value and worth, and the LGBTQIA plus community, like all others, should be welcomed in all aspects of the game of hockey. You can't say one for it. You can't say one and the other. You have to pick. I bet like fine.

You know, you put out a statement. You tried to get ahead of this. You didn't just duck. But I think some, he has to realize that what his, his own statement is contradictory and confusing and just all the more disappointing. And I'm sure Ian, you noticed it a lot more. And maybe you noticed it too, Mark. But there are a lot of fans who were disappointed that James Reimer did this.

I don't know how fans feel about Avin Proveroff beyond him being a player, but there are a lot of people who like genuinely like James Reimer as a person. Like when he was a Toronto Maple Leaf just with the way that he kind of carried around himself, this happy go lucky guy, that endeared himself to a ton of fans. And I think the reason why this particular instance resonates with, I think when you look back on it's going to resonate with fans a lot. lot more than the Ivan Proveroff thing is because this is somebody that I think people kind of looked at as a good guy in the national hockey league. We look at how the league is and the personalities and the players that are there and a lot of assumptions are made that some guys are not good because of the culture and as it is.

But I think people kind of looked at a guy like James Reimer and thought, no, this is a good dude. This is one of the so-called good ones. And I think, I just think of like steep dangles LFR, at least fan reactions for. those who don't know what those are. We're basically like after every Leafs game, he will go on YouTube and he will talk about the game that happened before. He spent like a couple of minutes just talking about James Romer. This is a guy he was a big fan of.

And he was just disappointed. And I know he's not alone in that. And I think there are a lot of people who felt genuinely disappointed at how he reacted to all of us. So, you know, when I look at this as a bigger picture issue, I think what happens is in a lot of these. cases and Las, I thought your column on the weekend was perfect, right? Perfect. Like, you nailed it. You wrote with passion, intelligence, you articulated it perfectly. The issue becomes, though, like people who read that, it's either reinforcing what you believe

if you're on one side of the fence or you're just like, stop, stick to sports. I have not changed one heart or mind in all the years I've been writing things about anything. And that's just, we know that. We know. And it's so easy to get on Twitter and dunk on James Reimer and do all these things. The only way this type of issue gets, kind of progresses is with education. And you know what I would love to see? I would love to see every year, and whether it's at rookie camp, development camp, start a training camp, you know, get somebody like Brock McGillis, get somebody in the game, Brian Burke, whoever it is. And instead of just kind of trying to shoehorn this pride night in, in the middle of the regular season,

when everyone's tensions are running high, take some time to educate the players in a less tense setting. Meaning, we're going to give Brock McGillis 30 minutes in training camp. It's going to address the room. It's going to talk about his own experience. He's going to talk about why it's important

to open your mind and your locker room doors to people from this community. And see if that's the way you can do. I just don't know that we're going to change anybody's mind. A lot of teams are doing this. Rob McGillardless does work. with NHL teams. Sheldon Kennedy does work with NHL teams. This is a big part of

training camp. In the wake of the Kyle's story in Chicago, we talked to Scott and I talked to Danny Wirtz and Jamie Faulkner, who run the Blackhawks, about the initiatives they're taking, and they do bring in speakers throughout the year. It's not just in training camp now. Like a lot of teams are doing this, but

it's just, it's so hard, again, to change, I really think the only way you're going to change, like you mentioned, would James Reimer except a gay teammate? That's a fascinating question. Because what do you hear the most? Like, you know, these macho, macho manly men in an NFL locker room, in an NBA locker room, an NHL locker room, a baseball locker room.

You hear the word love thrown around all the time. We're fighting for each other. We love each other. I love that. He's my team. He's my brother. I do think that that's the way forward is by having openly gay people in the NHL and that's how you're living with and eating with and traveling with

and sharing a locker room with. That's how you overcome these prejudices that are just ingrained in so many guys. The problem is what kind of man is going to come out as gay in this NHL? It's a catch-22. We need people to come out. There are certainly, statistically speaking, there is absolutely certainly gay people in the NHL right now and certainly have been through the years. But I don't blame a single one of them for not wanting to come out during their careers because look around you. They don't want you.

And once that player, because like, especially if it's like one player is like I'm going to start it, the media storm that's going to come with that player. Remember Michael Sam? Michael Sam? Michael Sam. I remember Michael Sam. That was a whole media firestorm in itself. And let me say one thing here.

You shouldn't have to have a gay friend to accept gay people. No. Like that's not how this should work. No. Realistically speaking, I hate to say it, that's probably how it has to work. No. And one thing we have to say too, like, and one thing that has to be pointed out in in the Jersey as well that the sharks wore.

Like they have the rainbows on it, but the shark is decorated in the colors of the transgender flag too. And we have to remember we're saying LGBTQIA plus. Like there's a whole spectrum of non-binary and sexual orientation that gets covered that gets covered in all this. And it's not just gay people. And when you talk about education, like that has to, I mean, I'm sure that it's already being included in all of that when those players are learning about it.

And down here in the states, you have you have states all over the country that are legislating these people out of existence. Absolutely. Their lives are at risk. Absolutely. My one thing about teams being educated on this, I would hope it would not be done in lieu of having these nights. I still think it's important for people to, for them for teams to have them, especially now with the way that they've been gone about before and how other leagues also have these nights, if you were to say, okay, we're just going to kind of drop them just so our players could just be edgy. privately, like, who knows what could happen in those instances? Also, a lot of those dudes who would be getting that education, grown men. There's a reason why Brock McGillis is doing a lot

of work with, like, young and prescientable teenagers when they're still able to learn about, you know, how the language they use is, could be very harmful or, or, or how they look at other, you know, teammates who may be gay or non-binary or transgender or whatnot. Like, I think, I would like to think that, you know, for all the flaws that, you know, people of my generation and people younger than me have to do with, I think there's a lot of people from those generations who are very progressive. I think if you are someone like Brock McGillis who goes into an HL locker room and you do your absolute best to educate NHL players, and maybe this is just me being cynical here, fine, you might, you know, change one person's mind or two people's minds or you might have

someone seen in a completely different light, you may very well just have someone like a James Reimer who is steadfast in their beliefs, and maybe they'll look at you and be like, hey, no, like I don't have any issue with what you do. That's your business. I'm still just not going to wear this jersey. Like I think that's what it is with James Reimer too. And maybe that just goes into that good guy persona that a lot of people just felt that he was. I think he would be that guy who, you know, if you look at it, it's like, yeah, like, whatever.

Like, I don't have any issue with you. I just don't feel to wear this jersey. And because of what these jerseys represent and because of what these knights represent, I know a lot of people are going to come on here and be like, oh, man, these are just things of virtue signaling or whatever. But like the message that's behind them where it's just a simple way for teams to show that they're, you know, anyone is welcome to these games, you know, that can't be lost in that. And also for people who want to say that too, would we be having these discussions? Would James Reimer and Ivan Provarov be so steadfast and not wearing these jerseys if these jerseys did not matter? if this was just simple virtue signally, just a thought.

I just, I want to say this, I mean, 20, 30 years ago, can you imagine any of these teams wearing these jerseys? No. Now we're at a point where it's isolated guys. Okay, this guy won't, this guy. We're making progress here. And like you said, Brock McGillis and Sheldon Kennedy, they do work with the younger guys because younger generations are,

they're inevitably more progressive than the last. My daughter's 11 years old. She's in fifth grade. You know, she has, you know, prize stickers all over her water bottle that she brings to school every day. It's just a thing. Like if you're 11 years old right now, and this isn't the case in every part of the country,

but you don't even understand, like, why would anyone have a problem with anybody? You know, we have the news on. We'll have MSNBC on, and they're talking about some law in Florida about, you know, legislating against trans people, and my daughter would be like, the hell's wrong with these people?

Why would you do that? It's going to get better. It keeps getting better. We just want to push it along and get it faster, but it's, you know, like you said, Julian, these are grown men. They're set in their ways. It's really hard to change.

the mind of a grownup. And it is very difficult when a person who a lot of people, you know, admire or are fans of ends up kind of, to use the wrestling term, turning heel in this way. And I think because of the fact that it is James Reimer, who has been perceived as a good guy, maybe in one particular market more than others, this is, this resonates with a lot of people. This is why, to go back to Ian's original point, this is why we have to keep writing about it. We have to keep this in the spotlight so people keep seeing, frankly, how younger fans in particular, keep seeing how absurd this is. How ridiculous it is that you would be so against wearing a freaking rainbow on your jersey.

Like, we need to keep it in the spotlight. We need to beat the dead horse, not for the current group of NHLers and fans, but for the next one. We need to show them that these are the outliers. This isn't the mainstream anymore. 30 years ago, this was the mainstream. Now it's the outliers. And your generation, the next one, is going to. turn them, you know, into complete pariahs.

That's what we need. Is a rainbow and a transgender, like all, I mean, fine, it's more than a rainbow, as I mentioned before, but like, I don't know. I don't see the issue with wearing something like this for like 20 minutes during a bare minimum. Like we're asking somebody to bear minimum. That's it. You know, but hey, look, I think, like we said, we've probably exhausted this.

I think fans are probably, it's funny because I think, again, I think you're right, last, like your column, it only serves to reinforce. people's beliefs, right? It's only through that kind of education. Anyway, it's a complicated thing. And I thought your column was so good this weekend. You just, as you do, sometimes, sometimes I just love to think of Las, whether it's about Chicago or this or any kind of these social issues. I like to think of you at your computer just kind of angrily, you know, Packing away at the keyboard. Rousseau talks about the night that Rocky Wirtz yelled at me, Russo talked about this, he's never seen someone hit a keyboard that hard in his life.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Like, you've got certain... I just want to write silly stories about, like, you know, smelling salts and guys changing their clothes a lot. I don't know how I fell into this world. Yeah. Hockey's supposed to be fun, man. I want it to be for everyone and I want it to be fun. That's all.

Yeah, we all do. This is now the perfect segue for us to chat about a fun little project. I think the two of you are, are both of you involved in this one about the whole song? Okay. Yeah. So why don't you guys set this up for the listener just to kind of give, give listeners an idea of this project that you guys are undertaken. Mark, do you want to take this or could I take it?

It's pretty simple. I mean, you know, if those of us that travel around, we're in every arena, you know, I think I've been in 39 NHL arenas now. And one of the things you always notice is the game ops, the game presentation, who plays good music, who has funny skits in between, you know, who takes this stuff too seriously? And, but the main thing that you leave, who hasn't left a game singing the goal song? Like if you're in Toronto and they score a bunch of goals, you are driving home singing

Holland Oats, man. Like it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, some people might not though. Some people hate that shit. I love that one. I love that one. I think it's great. I think it's cool. I hated it at first and then the Blackhawks lost like six nothing or something in Toronto.

I heard it so much and it like, it won me over by the end. Like, talk about hearts and minds. Yeah. It won me over by the end. So we thought we would, you know, we, we, we, we, we, we assembled that there's three or four teams that use individual goals song. So, uh, for each player, which I think is a really cool. idea, frankly, but we can't do anything with them, so they're not on the list. But you can go on

the athletic, you can listen to all, I think it's 27, 28 goal songs, and rate them from 1 to 10. We've already got over 2,000 people that participated in this. And we're going to put the numbers together and see what the best ones are. And then me, Scott Powers, and Julian, we're just going to make fun of all your ideas. I love it. I love the fact that I got in on this. Like, I'm really happy. Scott and I have ranked the arenas twice. Once from a media perspective and this is what this is what happens during a pandemic. Once from an arena, a media perspective, once from a fan perspective. And it's, it's really fun.

People get so angry and mad about you. You think the comment section in my column this weekend was bad? Wait till the comment section in the goal rankings. Oh, man. It's going to be a bloodbath. I love the idea of just this piece and getting involved in it. But too, like, I love going to games and paying attention to what arena is play not just as their goal songs, but like in, like during warmups or in between like,

you know, like dead period, dead moments in a game. Like I remember being in Colorado a couple of weeks ago and like half of the playlist to start the warm up is like rap. And I'm like, oh, okay, that's really interesting. But then you realize that like Nathan McKinnon is like a big fan of this one rapper named Gunna. And you're like, okay, that makes perfect sense that Gunna is like in this like playlist. In like Florida when I went. to a game earlier this year. A lot of like, you know, Gagetan, like, you know, that kind of style of music.

They had a bit of that in Arizona too. Like, that's really cool. I love the idea. Vancouver always plays a lot of classic rock. Damn. The United Center is famous for its, you know, my wheelhouse, which is like 90s alternative rock and grun.

Yeah. Like every arena kind of has its own character in that way. And it really made, one of my great regrets is when I was at the Sun Times and I was going to every single game, every single year. So I was in every rink every year. One year,

kept a file where I wrote down almost every song I heard throughout the course of the year at every arena. And I was going to rank the arenas based on my interpretation of the music, which is going to be incredibly biased. And I never got around to writing the story. And then by the time I wanted to do it, it was the next year and everyone had changed their playlist. So it was a, it was redundant.

I never wrote it. But I have a file somewhere on my computer just hundreds and hundreds of songs from every arena in the league from like 2016. Holy crap. But, Les, are you sick of Chelsea Dagger? I am sick of everything. Are you sick at Chelsea Dagger? Because when I think of Chicago and those three Stanley Cups, you just think of that song.

It's ingrained in everybody's mind, right? Well, two things. We don't hear it a lot anymore because the Blackhawks don't score a lot of goals. Ooh. Oh, I know, right? It's kind of by design. I remember, like, the first couple of years I was on the beat, this is my 11th season. Because I knew the song before it, because I listened to the song before it, because I listened

Alt Rock stations, and the Fratelli's Chelsea Dagger came out a few years before the Hawks adopted it. I liked the song. I was like, oh, this is a fun song. It would come on on Alt Nation on Sirius, and I would listen to it every time I'd like it. But then, like, after a year or two on the beat, when I would hear it, like, in the wild, like, if you're at, like, the county fair with the kids and you hear Chelsea Dagger, or if you're at the, the, the grocery store and it plays, like, I want to start throwing things.

It's like, no, no, this is my space. No, no, don't do it. I must have heard the, like, they're, they're, they're. can't be a song that I've heard more of my life than Chelsea Dagger, right? There can't possibly be. There's no Pearl Jam song I've listened to more than I've heard at least a snippet of Chelsea Dagger. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-dunnernn it just never-nows.

And then sometimes there's like, wait, this song has lyrics. It's like, well, yeah, this was a good song before, you know, it's a great goal song. Like, you know, you hear it in juniors, you hear it in international tournaments. I wonder, and Scott and I have written this before is like, Now that the Canaan and Dave's era is like over, maybe it's time for a new one or is this going to be their goal song for the next 40 years? It's an interesting discussion. Like should that be a snapshot of the golden age of Blackhawks hockey or should it just permanently be the thing? That's what I don't know what to do.

Here's one thing I wonder, do bands get like royalties off of their songs being like, no, because like the Fertellis, I mean, unless I'm wrong, there's someone who's very spirited in the comments. I think, like, Chelsea Deck, that's a one-hit wonder for them. That's, like, the biggest song they've ever done. That's off their, like, debut album, and they haven't really done anything, like, really cool since. So, like, if you were getting royalties off of that,

if you're the Fertellis, I would, I would get on that. If you listen to the lyrics, I'm pretty sure James Reimer would not like the song. Ooh. It's a great song, it's a perfect goal song, though. And it's, I remember, like, early on, like, during the Cup years, like, the Fratellis were doing a show in Chicago,

and they played it, and they, like, reference that they were put on a Black Hawk's jersey. Like, they, I think most, bands, anytime I've seen a band that gets used in this way, they love it. They think it's great. It's a way to keep their song alive. It's a way to get 20,000 people to hear it. And it's just cool, right? It's cool to be affiliated with pro sports. I think, you know, most teams, I think, are all about it. And you have some, like, like, Dallas's Pantera wrote a song. They puck off. Like, you have a couple of teams that, like, really lean into it. And they write

into, they specifically write a song to be the goal song of their hometown team, which is really cool. I believe in Nashville, Tim McGraw, because they have a weird thing where they do. I like it. I love it. And then it goes into a little ceiling. I think in the Tim McGraw song, Emma Lingin was explaining this to me that there's, they switched part of the lyrics of the, of that song to kind of fit it towards being the cool song for the predators. Like they, so to Mark's point, like there are guys who lean into that.

Absolutely. Which is great. It's all the more fun. You know, back in the day for Ottawa, and Ottawa was kind of moved around. They usually have song two by Blur. It's not every goal, but most goals, they'll do that. Very classic. But back in the day, when Danny Heatley was here and putting in 50 goal seasons,

they used to, every time Danny would score at home, they would play Glenn Fries, the Heat is on. And I always liked, it was fun. I don't know if I know that. Well, that's like the Blackhawks, when Jonathan Taze was your number one star, they would play Johnny Be Good after they introduced him at the end. When it was Patrick Kane,

they would play Rock You Like a Hurricane by the Scorpions. Like there's ways to do that. The individual goal songs is really fun, but it's hard for fans to really get into because they don't know what to do. Like every good goal song has a chant of some sort like Bro Him for the Ducks or the one that the Rangers use, the Joe Satriotti gold chant that somebody uses.

Yeah. There's a million, like you got to have crowd participation for it to really work as a goal song. and, you know, song too is a perfect example. When I covered the Penguins from 2001, 2004, that was their goal song 20 years ago. That's how, that's such a classic. You know, nobody uses Gary Glitter anymore because for lots of reasons.

For lots of reasons. But it was a good goal song because it had crowd participation. Like, that's what you need. You need something that you can yell in unison at. Like, you know, or you need to do what the Islanders did for years, which was do the yes, yes, yes, chance after the goal song. There has to be some kind of uniform. Let's get into this together.

thing. Okay. So as we wrap this up, this part of the conversation, I ask you guys this, Mark Lazarus, Julian McKenzie, if you guys are players and you score a goal and the, and the team has given you the right to pick your own goal song, what are you going with? You got to give you a, like three days notice for this, man. I know. No, I know. I know. I know. I know. Uh, Annie up by MOP, but the remix with Buster rhymes. So like the beginning part where you hear Buster Rhymes start off. Buster rhymes, buster rhymes now, MOP now, what you won't, what you won't. Yeah, just play that on a loop. That's, that's my goal song. It's either that or Simon says by Farrowmach. I'm thinking something like,

like, this goes against everything I just said about crap participation, but maybe like the guitar at the end of the guitar of Knights of Sedonia by Muse, do not, nah, da-na-na-da-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na- like, that would be badass as hell. That's a really good one. I've seen teams use it as like of their intro music? I think the stars use it. It's one of my favorite songs ever. The stars use it as like their power play song, I think. Man.

And what teams, by the way, what teams in the league, like, I don't Buffalo does individual goal songs, right? Yes. I think Winnipe. No, not Winnipeg. Calgary does too. Calgary, yeah. Calgary plays TNT by ACDC.

And if a player has an individual goal song, they immediately transition over to that song. Is it the Panthers too? The Panthers that have individual goal songs, I think. I think Florida has too, right? But the longest wild, while, though, like the Panthers had Jimmy World's sweetness as their goal song. So I was surprised that. That's a good song.

Yeah, and that's one of my favorite things about, like, I always encourage people if they have the means to do it to, like, go see games in other arenas. I love the little things that you notice. Like, every now and then, I'll be in some random arena, and they'll play what used to be the Black Hawk's power play song for years. And, like, my brain, like, registers it. Like, oh, the Blackhawks are going on a power play.

Wait, no, this is warm-ups. Like it's like you just get these things like that they just set in your brain and they never leave and they they bring like an instant like if I hear the Pretender by Fu Fighters, one of my favorite songs. Great song. That means, oh, the second period is about to start at the United Center because that's when the Blackhawks step on the ice for the second period. They play the pretender because it's just this hard driving, awesome song. There's just songs that because of the amount of time we spend in arenas that just become a part of you. Yeah, I remember like growing up like whenever I hear U2's vertigo, like, I associate that with the Canadians.

Because once upon a time, that was their goal song. And that was before they started forcing music onto your iPhones. Well, remember when everybody woke up that one day, we're like, what the hell? This whole YouTube. This random YouTube album on my iPod. The whole thing. Well, two things to wrap this up real quick. You guys remember when Vancouver was in the peak of the, and last you would remember this

because they would have played Chicago a couple of times in the playoffs. But they would come out to where the streets have no name. Remember that? And it was pretty good. It was a pretty electric atmosphere. The Blackhawks third period was always riding the storm out, REO Speedwagon, and that became like an anthem to Blackhawks fans for years. But the little thing I always love is in Colorado,

and it's so subtle, but when Colorado's killing a penalty at home, and they kill it off successfully, and they just make that little power up. The Mario power up noise. I'm like, that's the greatest thing ever. That is my single favorite thing in all of Hockeydom is the power up, the Mario Power Up. So not them playing all the small things when they're up big in the third period? No, the power up's better, isn't it?

I love the power. I love the power up, but like all this, like I got to be. But everybody does all the small things now. Everybody plays it and then everybody sings it. But like I don't know about you, but I associate it as a Colorado Avalanche thing. I know other teams definitely do it. It is now.

But like I think now, especially with the way last season went, there's a whole book called Carry Me Home. Like it's, you know, it's theirs. It's theirs. All right. Tell you what, Julian. The two of us are going to have to get through this together, the rest of the show.

That's because Mark Lazarus has dipped out. You spit too much hot fire in that, in the first few segments. Opening segment. Technical issues, we were watching him attempt to use his Wi-Fi, or he jumped to his hot spot on his phone. He's lost all internet connection there. Damn. So he's out.

It's just you and I. But I want to talk about a couple of races real quick with you, Julian, in the Western, kind of looking at the Western Conference a little bit too. Let's start with what is happening in Arizona, where the coyotes are on a roll. They've only lost twice in regulation time in the last 10 games. Julian, this was a team that was supposed to tank hard for Bedard.

And they're 6-2-2, and they're not going to, finish with certainly not with the worst record in league or there's a good chance when it's all set and done. Arizona's going to end up with like the sixth or seventh best odds at landing Connor Badar. How are they able to do this post deadline, post-chikrin when we thought, wow, they're just going to be riding out the tank? I like to think it's partially because of the fact they have nothing to lose, but also the

young talent that's there and the quickness that they're playing with, you know, maybe it's not good enough for them to make the playoffs right now, but I don't think they're playing so badly that they deserve to be in last place right now. A guy like Clayton Keller is in the midst of having himself a very excellent season. Attis Micelli is standing out as one of the better rookies from this year who will probably get Calder Trophy votes. In Calgary, people all year I've been lamenting the fact that Yuselamaki looked like a shell of himself as a former first round pick

in Calgary and then gets under Darrell Sutter and doesn't really see a lot of playing time and then goes to Arizona where he gets used as much as he's getting used and he looks like a future top four defenseman for that organization. They even have Connor Mackie there now. They had like Brett Ritchie playing on the first line

over there when they were playing against the Calgary Flames the other day. It was kind of a bit of a wild situation but I think there's something about this coyote's team where the talent that they've assembled, a Barrett Hayton is also playing really well there too. There's something about this coyote's team with all the young talent that they've assembled

where they're just not bad enough to be this last place team and the young players, I think they're just going out there and they're just playing and they're just doing what they can just to get some of these wins and see what they can do. And I think if you're a fan of a team that's in that

rebuilding stage, even if it does unfortunately take you out of a sweepstakes for a particular player, I think, I always think there's something great about seeing your team play slightly above expectations and just showing

that like your guys are just not losing every night. Like, as if that happens, like after a while, I think that kind of grains on a couple guys. So it's, there's a part of me that thinks it's kind of cool that the Arizona coyotes are doing this. Also, something I just noticed that has blown my mind

and I am double checking and triple checking and quadruple checking. And there are four teams in the Western Conference who have a better home record than the Arizona Coyotes right now. There are only four teams in the West. Minnesota, Vegas, Los Angeles, and Winnipeg. And it's not like their records are overwhelmingly better than Arizona either. Like Minnesota, Vegas, and L.A. Each have 22 wins.

Winnipeg is 21 at home. Arizona has 20. Those are the only five teams in the Western Conference who have won 20 or more games at home. Obviously, that number changes a little bit in the Eastern Conference, but like in the West, there are only five teams who have won 20 or more games in the Western Conference at home.

Sorry, let me phrase that. There are only five Western Conference teams who have won 20 games or more at home, and the Arizona Coyotes are one of those teams. Insane. That's wild. Yeah, and the mullet, as you said, Mullet Magic. Now, they did pretty well or doing pretty well after the trade deadline.

That was kind of the case too for Nashville. They got rid of Mettea Sheckholm, Tanner Geno, and we thought, okay, this is it. They're just going to ride it out. But they're kind of hanging around the playoff race, but I ask you this, was this weekend the definitive end to Nashville's playoff chances? They lose in overtime to Winnipeg in a game that was probably deemed as a must have in regulation. Okay, but they get a point, so they only lose a point there. But was the dagger, the Sunday game against the Rangers? Like, look, when we look at the standings right now, Julian,

I know the team that you cover the Calgary Flames are sandwiched right in between. But Winnipeg's got 81 points, Nashville's five back with three in hand. Now, games in hand are, you know, it can be deceitful, but technically speaking, Nashville controls its own destiny in a very loose sense, because of the games in hand. But the manner in which they lost on Sunday, is that like a nail in the coffin for you? Or what do you,

how do you look at the three-team race amongst Winnipeg, Calgary, Nashville? It's not a nail in the coffin for me only because Winnipeg and the Calgary flames are also not playing at 100%. Lost in the predators getting spanked. The Jets lost to the St. Louis Blues yesterday as well. So people in Calgary are very,

happy and very antsy over these next two games. There is a world where if the flames beat the Kings tonight and they beat the ducks tomorrow and the Jets lose on Tuesday that the flames and the Jets could be tied on points. The thing is the natural predators have three games in hand on Winnipeg and two games in hand on Calgary. And it is not impossible that Winnipeg and Calgary just kind of sputter around over the next few games and then Nashville just reels off like three wins in a row and they find themselves back in the thick of things up there. Like it's just a situation where because of how these

three teams are playing, uh, no one's really out of it completely yet. And especially in Calgary, where, you know, we've seen playoff odds kind of fall to like, you know, 17% or in the low 20s or anything like that. Like, you know, uh, it's, teams like Winnipeg kind of still, you know, not shut the door on those playoff opportunities or seeing Nashville play behind. Like, it gives teams like Calgary hope. So, yeah, it's just, it's hard for me to write off Nashville completely. Maybe after this week, we could say something different. But right now, like, just because of those games in hand, I know you're making the point it is a bit deceitful at times. If Winnipeg and Calgary don't eat their food, Nashville's going to come

right there and take it. I'll tell you, in the, in the eastern, conference where not 10 days ago, I think it was, it felt like it was a five, maybe even a six team race at times for the, the two wild card spots. You know, Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh Ottawa play a big game on Monday. Ottawa is really faded. Detroit is really faded. Washington is really faded. You know, whatever, Buffalo.

Like, like the team now to watch is Florida. Like the Florida Panthers are the team, Julian, that. if anybody's going to push the penguins or the islanders out, I think it's going to be the defending president's trophy champion, Florida Panthers. And I got to tell you, if you are Boston or Carolina or, you know, I guess New Jersey can still win that division, you're probably, you don't want to see the Florida Panthers,

do you in the playoffs? Because, okay, maybe Barbrowski might give you some reason for optimism. But if they get in, it means that they've been. and playing well down the stretch, they're going to be kind of hot. Matthew Kachuk in a playoff series. We know what he can, like, man, that, but to me now it's become a three-team race.

And the Florida Panthers are sitting right there. And I think the islanders are the team that feels vulnerable to me. Which is interesting because I think when we talked about it last week in terms of teams, the Bruins wouldn't want to face. The islanders are right there as a team you don't want them to be in that two hole in the wild card

because of the goaltending that they've had all year. That's an caliber goaltending for Milius Rorican. So it would be a shame if the islanders fell out of that playoff spot considering what he's been able to do for them all year. But the Florida Panthers are a very interesting story, considering that they are not playing anywhere near that pace that they were playing at last year. They went through all those changes in the off season,

just like what the Calgary Flames did, and they end up with a guy like Matthew Kachuk, who I wonder how many MVP votes he gets because he's playing at an incredible level this year. and he's done a lot of great things for that team since joining there. He's trying to obliterate all of Jonathan Humboldos records since joining that organization. And they have had to declare healthy and back as well. Yeah, you got to worry about gold tank a little bit.

But if they find themselves in a position where they're able to hop in and hijack Pittsburgh spot, which is not out of question considering how they've been playing as late. I feel as if we're not talking about this, did we curse the Pittsburgh Penguins? because I feel like the last time we spoke about them, they were doing pretty well. They've not lost three straight. And it's not looking too good. It's not looking too good for Pittsburgh.

Yeah, no, it's, and the only reason why I would pick the Islanders ahead of the Penguins to be vulnerable is the game's played factor because the Penguins have a couple in hand. But you're right. Like, Pittsburgh has certainly been hot and cold, but they've been hot and cold all season, right?

They'll have seven great games, five bad ones, nine good ones, three bad ones. Like it's just, it's been a yo-yo all season long. And anyway, it's going to be really interesting if Florida can kind of just continue to chip away and hang around. But unfortunately, Ottawa, Buffalo, Washington, and Detroit have started to fade a little bit in that. By the way, speaking of Ottawa, real quick, I want to give an update on the ownership situation by Ken, Julian. Yeah, for people who are wondering kind of how this is playing out. out in Ottawa. So I was told recently that Gary Bettman's going to be coming to Ottawa next week.

So next Monday, which is the 27th, I believe Gary Bettman's going to be coming to Ottawa. I don't think he's going to be making any grand announcements, though. I don't think, like, Julianne is going to come to Ottawa and say, you know what? We've decided on who the team's going to be sold to. I think, remember he came to Calgary, what, two weeks ago? Yeah. Something like that? Yeah, a couple weeks ago. Whatever it was. I think this is going to fall into the same bucket where he's just, look,

he's trying to get to most NHL markets, make an appearance. Obviously coming to Ottawa at this juncture of the ownership situation is curious. But I don't think he's going to come here and make any grand statements, but that's one thing I've been told to watch out for is that Gary is going to come possibly with Bill Daley, but certainly Gary will be here. I believe it's on Monday, the 27th. The other thing is, so the first round of Bill, bids came in, Julian, and I think there was quite a discrepancy in the low and the high bid.

Like in terms of, I've been told that the lowest bids may have come in around $750 million for the team. And the highest ones coming in north than $900 million. So that's a pretty big discrepancy, $150, $175 million. And the one group, and I've written about this group a number of times, they're based out of Los Angeles. headed by a gentleman by the name of Nico Sparks. And what I really like about, I've always loved about this group and fascinated. I can't quite get all the details on them.

Like it's really hard to nail down information. But, you know, they're a group, Julian, that would look like nothing else the NHL has ever seen. Like they would be comprised mostly of people of color. I was told that their ownership consortium would be 15 people. 10 or 12 of those people would be people of color. And we've talked about this earlier in the show

how the NHL can sometimes, you know, needs to diversify. This would be a great way to do it. I know that Daniel Cherry is one of the investors in this group. If that name seems a little bit familiar, he's actually an Adidas executive. Kanye went after him big time last summer. Because remember Kanye and the Dinas team. Big follow up.

Yeah, I remember that. Daniel Cherry is somebody who used to work in marketing for the New Jersey Devils. So there's an interesting, anyway, it's a really interesting group. And I can't quite seem to nail this down. But if I had to make an educated guess on which is the group that whose bid kind of came in around $900 million, that's where I would put my money. I would put my money on the Sparks group being the $900 million bid. That's what I do. I have to admit, like, I've only heard it, I've only heard it mentioned kind of one other time that this ownership group with the, that is, that seems to be diverse in his personnel has been mentioned.

I guess because we all got kind of lost in the potential of Ryan Reynolds being associated to an NHL team and the celebrity that he brings as a actual celebrity and what that could mean for the league. but there's if this other group with Nico Sparks works out like that kind of puts the NHL at like at like the forefront of something that like does not happen a lot in sports where we see persons of color owning teams we think of owners as like old scruffy white men Jeremy Jacobs types but like how many teams in the big four in North America are primarily owned by people of color. You could probably count on one hand. I can't think of any.

And maybe I'm wrong, but like you can... Michael Jordan owns a stake in Charlotte, which I think he's trying to sell now. And he's trying to sell that right now. Yeah. You know, like, I don't think there are a lot of teams that have that. So if this works out, I hope we keep that same energy for covering the story the same way that we would have if Ryan Reynolds ended up being a... the order of the Ottawa Sandeers.

And the other thing is that this group, this Nico Sparks group, they have in their back pocket, I've been told they got a legit A-list celebrity. Legit. Okay. I can't, I can't crack that one. I have tried running end around.

You out here dropping some gems, Ian. This is pretty sick. I got told, I wrote about them in January and I got told that this is a legitimate A-list celebrity who has worked with the likes of the weekend and Drake. And I, but so like to me,

I don't think it's the weekend or Drake, but I've also, you know, people have suggested. Well, once upon a time, like the weekend, it was, it was reported on Occupy night in Canada that the weekend might get in with Ryan Reynolds. Exactly. So I've always had that in the back of my mind, that maybe, maybe it's the weekend.

But I can't get, I try to get to people close to that sparks group that, I can't, I can't do it. I can't, I can't. Someone else is probably going to crack that nut before me and it's going to be pretty cool. But I think that they have somebody legitimately A-list celebrity waiting in the wings. And it's, look, there's a lot of excitement around it. And then this is the week coming up where they, I learned what a cap table was this week. A cap table?

Yeah, I had no idea what a cap table was, Julian. very quickly, it is, basically, it's a short form for capitalization table. And it's like a spreadsheet. So every group that's still in the running for Ottawa's in the ownership race here, you have to submit a cap table to the NHL in the next, I think it's the next seven days, ten days. And it would be a cap table with great detail of your ownership group. So let's say you and I, and well, Laz is not on the call anymore,

but let's see the three of us were bidding to buy the auto with senators and they're like, okay, now you guys have to show us your cap table. Well, we would have to show them, okay, here's our company structure and Ian's got a 20% equity stake in it, and Julian's got 40% and last has 15%. And here's, like, this is the week where you kind of, it's one thing to say we're going to bid 800 million or 900 million on an NHL team. It's something completely different to say, okay, it's almost like this, a game of poker, and now it's time to kind of show your hand a little bit.

So that's where we're at in the in the Ottawa sale. I think there's going to be some stuff this week. And I certainly think if Gary comes to town like I think he's coming on Monday, there's going to be something there. Nothing great, but but there'll be an update, a tangible update, I think on the 27th. So that, anyway, that is. I'm excited for that, for that, for that day now. This is, this is pretty interesting.

Well, let's try to get Gary on the Monday pod. I don't think so. But anyway. You don't think you do the athletic hockey show with us? No. That's my guess. That's my guess. Oh, man.

All right, Julian, let's wrap up the show with some feedback from the listeners. We appreciate. We read all the comments that you drop into the comment section on the athletic hockey show. We read those. We take your emails, the athletic hockey show at gmail.com. We take your tweets. All of that. We get all of it.

So fire us your feedback. We got a lot of feedback last week, Julian, on our idea of, creating a triple crown award for somebody who leads the NHL and goals, assists and points. Connor McDavid, on the verge of doing that this season, hasn't been done outright by a player since Wayne Gretzky in 87. But we got a couple of notes here from listeners,

loyal listeners to the Athletic Hockey Show Monday edition. We got one from Dan in Grand Rapids. And Chris in Vegas, they both kind of see the same thing, which is Julian, just so you guys know, No, as much of the triple crown is a great idea. Technically, it's really just a double crown because if you lead the league in goals and assists, obviously you're going to lead it in point. So do we need to change this to a double crown?

Double crown is not as fun, though. No. Yeah. It's not as fun. That's cool. But Dan and Grand Rapids does have a suggestion. If you guys really are stuck on wanting to keep it as a triple crown, I propose your third metric is plus minus.

No, there's the thing because plus minus as a stat is It's not a good stat enough as it is Like we're at a point now where people don't feel it properly represents a player Like I don't know I feel like I could step onto a night What if I step onto the ice for three seconds And it just so happens a goal to scored Like that just adds to my minus

Like that's not fair Like I don't that that's a big problem with plus minus right Like so I think the idea of that being the measure, I don't necessarily like that idea. What if it was like an advanced stat or something? Like what if you led in goals and assists, but like your wins above replacement was really good? Or like if your game score value added was the third one. That one's somewhat subjective, right?

Because your wins. I'm saying your wins above replacement model might be different than Dom's wins above replacement model, which might be different. You know what I mean? That's no. Okay. When you put it like that, you're absolutely right. Yeah, that's what I work.

Like, how would you agree upon one formula? That's all. Then like the NHL has to either have their own in-house model or they would have to recognize someone's model as the true definition. But that's just me spitball. You could probably just avoid all that by not having war as a third thing. Goals assists. Don't say, imagine, back in the day, people would have said penalty minutes.

Yeah, that's true. That's true. There's an error where like penalty minutes would have been it. Yeah, maybe, maybe the, yeah, maybe anyway, we'd love to hear. But how about this other email we got? You guys are, this email comes in and I apologize. I didn't, this may have been a comment in the, in the athletic hockey show. But hey, first of all, love the show.

Look forward to listening to you guys on my way to the gym every day. Okay? So first of all, I'm a little disappointed that we're not what you're choosing to listen to at the gym. We're just for the weight of the gym. But that's fine. I get it. I wonder how their routine is affected by like listening to our show compared to like the Tuesday boys with like Gentile and Constance. That gets you. I feel like the Tuesday boys would give you a good cardio workout, right?

Because they're kind of, they like to get fired up, a little hot takery. I was thinking more of the opposite where, you know, I mean, Craig, I would never call a slacker, maybe Sean, and maybe that would just kind of affect your willpower a little bit, I don't know. Could be. Anyway, so actually, I do have a name. Love you, Sean. This one's from Todd. So Todd is saying, listens to us on the way to the gym every day, athletic hockey show.

Most recent episode, you're talking about the award for a player who leads the league and goals assist and points. To take this the next level, I think the winner of this award should be presented the honor at the NHL awards in the form of an actual crown bestowed upon them by the two players who finished runner-up in goals and assists. So this year, for example, Todd says, how cool would it be if Connor McDavid is given a real golden crown and it's put on his head by David Posternak and Nikita Kucherov who finished second in goals and assists respectively?

Thanks, guys, keep up what you're doing that is from Todd. Austin and Kucharov are not doing that. Could you imagine a year where Austin Matthews has to do that for Connery, David, or vice versa? The players are not bestowing any crown on anyone's head. I think the crown thing is a cool idea. In fact, I think NHL teams should go one step further and copy what's being done. I think in Sweden, where if you lead like the league and goals and if you lead the league and like points or whatever, you wear the golden helmet, like single them out. But players are not going to go for.

bestowing any crowd on anyone's head. The memes are going to be too, it's too much. Think of the sponsorship opportunities. Would you have, because you know how the NHL, all the awards are, everything is always sponsored, right? Everything is sponsored.

Okay. What would you choose to sponsor the actual crown? Would you go with Crown Royal, which is the Canadian whiskey brand? Would you go big? Do you swing for the fences and go for Burger King? And get the crown, the actual like that?

Swinging for Burger King, the big one here? I mean, I guess it's it's it's the Whopper, yeah, I guess, but like Yeah, the Whopper, Wopper, Wopper, Wapper, Wapper, Wapper, like really? Like, I don't know, I kind of would rather Triple Crown Award,

branded award than like Harvest. Then again, you know what, sponsorship is key, right? Like, we might go through a year where we see someone awarded the IHOP Rocket Richard Award or something, you know, like, or. IHOP Rocket Richard Richard Award. Like, I think the Rocket

Richard Award presented by IHop has a better feel to it. Even then, like, the idea that like, an iconic award for Bulls Gold Score is presented by a pancake breakfast place. Like, I'm sure someone will complain about it. Like those jersey ads we see more and more of. You know how people complain.

Oh, producer Chris Flannery is telling us that Denny should be the prime sponsor here with their triple play. Oh, Davey. I'm off the menu. How does Denny's not have a baseball sponsorship with the Grand Slam, by the way? Yeah, that's like, that's easy money. It's sitting right there. It's right there.

Anyway. Yeah. Okay. I'll tell you what. Appreciate the feedback from everybody. Let us, let us just go ahead. Jack Adams winner of the week. We look at the last seven days in hockey, determine who did the best job in coaching.

A couple of candidates for you. here. Julian, Colorado Avalanche head coach Jared Bednar and Rangers head coach Gerard Gallant led their teams to perfect four and no weeks. But as we talked about Andre Tourney, Arizona, 3.0 and O last week, Jay Woodcroft did the same at Edmonton. Tourney, Woodcroft, Bednar, Galant, who do you like? Turney, last week we said, you know, he's taking his team out of it. While I did phrase his team this week, I can't really give him Jack Adams winner of the winner this week.

Bednar and Galant both going 4-0-0 is really good. Jay Woodcroft was also perfect in a minton, too. Man, it's kind of tough for me this week. I think the fact that the abs are having the season that they're having, despite all the

injuries they're trying to stop them in their path, I think that's always a really good thing for them to have these types of weeks. So I might give it to them, but also, I mean, Edmonton firing on all CERC on all cylinders as well. Vander Cain had a hat trick the other night. Like he's like the oilers, I mean, they may outscore their problems again and be a team to be fair in the playoffs again. But I don't know. I'm kind of torn between Bednar and Woodcroft.

No shade to Gerard DeLon. I think we've given him the honor to already. I always try to think of a coach who has not won the honor. but maybe Bednar or Woodcroft. You know what? I think I'm with you on Bednar. Look, Colorado at the 20 or 30 game market of this season, I don't know, they've had injuries or whatever,

but like, remember there was a time where we were like, man, what's wrong with the Avalanche? And the answer is nothing. And they could storm back here with the week that they had. Like, winning the division is absolutely a possibility for them. A realistic possibility. The Avalanche could win that division. Think about that.

Think about saying that six weeks ago. Like, it's amazing what they've done. Four and O last week, they came through kind of Eastern Canada and ripped off wins against Montreal, Toronto, and Ottawa, and in very different ways, right? Like the Toronto game was a kind of, let's lock it down and play that playoff style

and they play a low scoring game. They win that. The games that sandwiched that, Montreal and Ottawa, I think they were a little bit more loose, but they kind of showed you, hey, you want to try and outscores? Go ahead. You want to try and play lock it down?

Go ahead. I like what they did last week. I'm so scared of the avalanche getting hot at the right time. So give me Jared Bednar. I agree with you. Give me Jared Bednar there. I think of any team in the Western Conference, if any team in the league, until I'm proven otherwise,

the team I'm afraid of most is Colorado. Because they know how to win in the playoffs. They know how to shut down teams on the defensive side. They know how to use their speed and strength to their advantage on the offensive side. and the way that they play, like watching them in person is genuinely scary. And without Gabe Landiscaught, too. Like, let's not forget. They've just had an amazing season with all sorts of injuries and adversity.

So, yeah, listen, let's give it to better. And speaking of the avalanche, we got to one of their players in Multiple Choice Madden is here, Julia. Oh. I've got to ask you this question, because look, we're talking rightfully so. McDavid is running away with everything that's here and rightfully so. Here's my question, though, which players individual season is not getting enough praise on a national level? Like, which are these four players you think, you know what? Man, we should be talking about this guy a little bit more.

Is it, A, Nikita Kuturov very quietly just joined the 100 point club on the weekend. Is it B, Miko Ranton. He's about to hit 50 goals. I don't know if anyone's talking about that. He's at 46 right now. Is it C, Brayden Point very quietly in Tampa? He's going to flirt with 50 goals this season. he's at 43, or is it Elias Pedersen in Vancouver,

who connects have been all over the map this year, PD top 10 in league scoring and a chance they had 100 points. Who do you think we should be talking about more on a national level? Okay. So Elias Pedersen, because of the back of all that was going on in Vancouver, I felt like I heard a couple different points that, you know, in spite of everything that was going on, Elias Patterson was having himself a really good year.

And I'm glad for his sake that he is, considering the fact that the Vancouver Canucks are a team that is still trying to find direction and trying to figure out who they really need to build around. And Elias Patterson clearly is a player who deserves to stick around and build around in order for them to be relevant. So I'll take him out. I feel like it was you who mentioned that Nikita Kuturov was quietly having himself a monster season. The fact that he just hit the 100-point plateau for the third time in his career, like that's, that's a moment. That's insane to me. Like I'm, like, I was thinking about like, hey, like, should Matthew McAchukh get MVP votes?

Where does Nikita Kuturov factor in all of this? I know we're in a world where Connor McDavid is going to be the runaway favorite. And he'll probably win the Hart Trophy. But if you look at it, we have three players right now who are at the 100 point plateau. It's Connor McDavid, Leon Drysiddle, and Nikita Kuturov. Like, it's a very, it's just kind of quiet. I don't know if it's just because we've gotten bored of how the Tampa Bay Lightning have been, but it's a bit quiet for talk around Nikita Kutjurov.

Miko Rantan, considering how Colorado has played this year and how Mika Rantan has had to put the team on his back. Like, he's having a monster, monster season in Colorado. And I can think that some people are not talking about that. I did not know until just now that Brayton Point had 43 goals and is quietly shooting towards 50. And 43 goals better than his. 41 that he scored in 2018, 2019, which is a year I'm sure he and many of his teammates would want to forget. But Braden Point at 43 goals, a guy who can hit 50 before the end of the year, like, that is insane to me. For a guy like Braden Point, who we think of as a playoff monster

to emerge himself as a, I mean, I think he already is, but a veritable, a veritable regular season guy as well. This is a guy who, uh, had 58 points in 66 last year and for him to get to a point where he's about to, he has a chance at almost doubling his goal output from last year, I think that's really cool. So my answer, Braden point, considering how much we give him praise on a national level during the playoffs.

I think it'd be cool if we showed him some love in the regular season too. Okay. I'm going to go Miko Ranting on this one because I think we talk about the avalanche, and yeah, he's put them on his back, But people always say, oh, McCar, McKinnon. I don't think Rantanin gets enough respect. And, you know, Peter Bob was in Ottawa this week, and he says to me, you know that Rantanin season, he's the first finish-born player to get to 45 goals since Timo.

And that's a long time. That's at least 20. That's at least 15 years. I think he said it was like 15 years, something like that. Whatever it is. It's a great season. I don't think we're giving him enough love. Rantanin's going to get to 50.

And yeah, give me Miko Rantanin. on this one. I think it's just been a great season. Great season for him. All right. Listen, this has been a great show. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Wherever he went into the best. And by the way, I also want to tell, maybe this is the right time to tell everybody, all the listeners, Julian, we're finally, we're Instagram official in terms of, I just realized this this weekend. I was like,

I don't follow Julian on Instagram. And I felt really bad. And then you gave me the courtesy follow back. So there you go. We're following each other on Instagram. Finally. Thank you. It just took seven months or whatever of working together. No fairness. Like that profile, I have like a very private Instagram and like I'm trying to keep it more private.

So the fact that you're now following me on my work professional one is cool. Please don't look for me on my private one. I'm not going to follow you back. You, you could do that. You're cool. I mean you as in like the royal you for everybody else. You if you do that. In fact, I thought you were, but I don't think of my work.

But anyway, it doesn't matter. Anyway. We are connected. We are connected now on multiple social media platforms. But this is great. Listen, man, have a great week. You too. There's a fantastic show, as always.

We thank Mark Lazarus for dropping by for the first 30 minutes or so and hanging out with us. Thanks to everybody for listening to the Out of the Hockey Show. Follow us on your favorite podcast platform. Leave us a rating and review. We would appreciate that. You can follow us on YouTube as well. YouTube.com slash. athletic hockey show right now or one year's

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