The Athletic Hockey Show - Jarmo Kekäläinen on the Blue Jackets retool. Canucks shock Maple Leafs and Dallas Stars back in the playoff race

Episode Date: April 21, 2021

Jarmo Kekäläinen, the General Manager of the Columbus Blue Jackets is our guest this week on the Two Man Advantage edition of the Athletic hockey show. Jarmo discusses the retool in Columbus, acquiring first round picks for Nick Foligno and David Savard, plus how he is going to proceed on extending Patrik Laine, Seth Jones and Zach Werenski. Jarmo addresses the future of John Tortorella as head coach, and his opinion on Torts benching big name players.Scott and Pierre talk about the playoff races in the league, highlighting the play of Vancouver who has beat Toronto in back to back games after overcoming an outbreak of COVID-19 which crippled the Canucks for three weeks. Plus, the guys take a look at how well Dallas and Carolina are playing and what kind of roster Roberto Luongo's team Canada will have at the 2021 World Hockey Championships.Finally, in the latest edition of 'Ask the Dorks' Scott and Pierre discuss the front runners for the Jack Adams trophy, which players acquired at the deadline, might be 'sneaky' good pickups, including Sam Bennett, Riley Nash and Jani Hakanpaa and who has the best goaltending duo in the NHL? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey, everybody, Scott Burnside back for another edition of Two Man Advantage, the podcast, part of the Athletic Hockey Show Network. Pierre Lebrun, we are past the trade deadline. We're past Patrick Marlowe's incredible establishing of a new all-time games played record. It's all, it's playoff, it's almost playoff stretch time now, right? Are you feeling that? Are you feeling we're now, we've moved on, we're in a new phase of the season? Yeah, and it's weird. the playoff races aren't nearly as compelling as normal.

Yes. It's very strange. And I think at the end of the day, it's got to do with all the head-to-head matchups, you know, all the four-point games. In a normal year with everyone playing everyone, it really feels like everyone is so jelled up and there's so much parody. But it's weird. You kind of know where this is kind of headed playoff-wise right now, for the most part.

Yeah, no. And we're going to, speaking of playoff races and teams that we thought might have been in one but aren't. We're going to hear from Columbus GM Yarmal Keke-Kelaine and always a treat to chat with Yarmal. Difficult times in Columbus, but we're going to chat with Yarmou in a very short period of time. But you mentioned the playoff races and, you know, the sort of the drama may be a little bit muted. I watch again second night in a row since Vancouver comes back after just a, you know, an incredible time with the COVID-19 variant and the, all of the drama that surrounded that team, the health issues. And now they've come back and all they've done is beat the best team in the North Division

and one of the best teams in the NHL twice in a row in Toronto, 8th, and so there's two sides to this because, you know, how long ago, you know, we were talking about Jack Campbell and James Myrtle's tremendous feature on Jack Campbell. And oh, my gosh, what a great story now. It's like, oh. Yeah, it's Murtle's fault. It's Mordle's fault. There's no question.

Yeah, Jack Campbell's come back down the earth, which I don't think is shocking. I do think he's a better goalie than he's stolen up late. So somewhere between of late and the 10-0 peak is a very, very good backup. But this all comes down to what the year started as. Freddie Anderson can play out time. I mean, that's the – Oh, my goodness. That was the story before the puck drop in mid-January.

and it will come back to be the story if and when, I mean, all signs point to him returning here. And that will be the story again as he's a pending UFA, and it really, you know, comes down to him in goal, which is some pretty rich theater of question. But listen. Well, I just want to interject here. I got something that, you know, something sort of niggling that says,

wait a minute, what if the story is not Jack Campbell and not Freddie Anderson, but Big Save Dave Ridditch? Oh, wow. They vary under the radar. There were a lot of big saves last night in Vancouver from Big Save Dave. I can tell you that. I mean, two of those goals were horrendous. Horrendous. Okay.

So, I mean, like, I don't know. I mean, Tanner Pearson should be calling the league and asking them to give one of those goals back. Oh, I know. That was not pretty. Anyway, so, yeah, that's, it is fast. And, of course, you know, again, it creates, as you point out, it creates the consistent narrative around this Leaf team as we approach the playoffs and as we think about it. Yeah, and they're so well built.

Like, this should be the Leafs here to finally win a playoff round and beyond. They're really, they're so deep. I love the construct. I love the pieces that Kyle Davis has added. I love the Phillyo deal, as you know, it's all. all there, but could cold tending sink them. Oh, my goodness. And, you know, I was thinking ahead, if it is Toronto, Montreal,

though the abs are just not looking good at all right now, but pretty hard for them not to make it. Wouldn't it, you know, that's just Toronto, Montreal, and the way both teams are planning, the Leaf should really handle that series. But could you just see where it's like Kerry Price says, okay, let's go, second win? Oh, my goodness, there's so much.

That could play out there. Oh, yeah. Well, and Kerry Price out now with the concussion protocol. Oh, my God. Well, and yeah, exactly. And I know, the numbers don't add up. But, man, it would be great to see. It would be such a great story.

It would be an even better story. The Vancouver Canucks somehow made the plows. Wow. I mean, the schedule tells you that it's just too hard. In fact, that's part of what Montreal is facing. I know people don't like talking about it because it sounds like an excuse, but the haves of gas to me. when they got blanked by Ottawa the other day,

I was working that game for TSN. It was their 11th game in 19 days. That's not what the NHL should be, right? And now Vancouver's going to live that. And they're not only going to live a similar schedule to the house, but they're going to live actually having had an outbreak on their team, which Montreal got lucky and didn't have. They only had the one player, Yola, RMEA.

But it would be sad. I mean, if the Kinex actually make this a race, you're going to have a lot of bandwagon Kinnukes fans, I think throughout the league. What a compelling story. Well, so we're going to touch on a couple things before we take a break and then come back to Yarmou, Kekalanian. But I go to the other compelling race or compelling storyline vis-a-vis team breakouts and, you know, the impact. And can you overcome that to make the playoffs?

And that's the Dallas Stars. And what a great, it's just such a great story. And I've got to tell you. And it's not surprising. I refuse to ever write them off this year because he technically. I'm sorry. Looking at the games they could make up. Honestly, I just, they were so, and they, you know, they, they had such a strange, you know, they couldn't get, you know, they were always going to overtime and losing and shootout. And I was like, no. And then Nashville, of course, on their tear, I just thought Nashville had created enough separation. But as you and I speak today, Dallas one point back with two games in hand. And what, what a great race. And it's amazing. When you look at that Dallas team, plus 17. goal differential.

Jamie Ben is playing lights out again. They moved them to center. They're going to get Tyler Sagan back. What about the kid, Nick Robertson, sorry, Jason Robertson, Nick's brother, Jason Robertson, 35 points. Making the Calder,

it looked like the Calder was a slam dunk, but now maybe perhaps, I would say, an interesting discussion, right? Yeah, no, I, for sure. Sure. And his, and I don't have it in front of me, but his production at five on five has been absolutely outstanding. And, you know, again, when we think about that Stars team that went to game six as a Stanley Cup final against Tampa, it was their depth, right? I mean, guys stepping up every single night to contribute.

And Jason Robertson has been, you know, it's such a fascinating team, right? It's just. By the way, what I really sort of interrupt because you're going on forever, but. Yep. How good would it be to get Florida Tampa Bay in the first round? All right. I mean, that's what I want in that division. That's, you can call it a rivalry all you want, but you need to juice it up for real

to playoff time, right? And they actually have fans in those buildings. I mean, that would be fun first round series. So I watch, you know, it's sort of like, you know, I'm in the South, so, but I watch that Carolina, Tampa game. So back-to-back nights. Interesting. John Cooper goes back to Vasaleski, back to back, didn't really work out as the Keynes lose in

overtime in the first game and then come back and win 4-1 last night to take over. Well, they're still tied with Florida points-wise, but points percentage in the first place. Carolina looks so good right now. And, you know, for people wondering why the hurricanes didn't do a whole lot at the deadline, I mean, they made the money a blurry deal, but because they didn't need to. I mean, you know, trade deadline's overrated. And you do things if you have specific needs, but if your team has all the mojo, you also don't want to mess with it. And I think the hurricanes handled up pretty good at the deadline.

Well, and I'll say this, Cedric Packett coming in early in the process from Ottawa, Stanley Cup winner, Key. And I disagree with you. You didn't say they didn't do anything. But I got to tell you, let me ask you this. Is there a place for Yanni Hockenpa to be this year's Michael Kempney? Remember when Michael Kempney went to Washington? I thought that was one of our questions for Ask the Dorks. Way to go through.

All right. Okay, we'll talk about that later then. See, this is it. You would read the questions from the dorks and I have it. All right. That's why we worked well together. All right. Last thing before we take a break and chat with Yarmou Kekhala.

And interesting move, Roberto Luongo, named GM of the Canadian effort at the World Championships coming up later this spring slash summer. Normally, the World Championships in a pre-Olympic year, they're kind of a big deal, right? Because it's a chance for especially deeper nations like Canada and the United States. Chris Jury is going to be the GM of Team USA at the World Championships. It's an opportunity traditionally to give an opportunity to younger players who might be on the edge of the Olympic bubble, an opportunity to play internationally, show their commitment, play their way into consideration. I'm not sure we're going to see that. I think that's a tough thing, but who knows?

What do you make of the Luongo thing and the World Championships? Yeah, I mean, that is the carrot. And you're really going to need that carrot this year because it sounds like they're setting up sort of a half bubble or some version of a bubbles what they're talking about. in Latvia, you know, again, through this pandemic to hold the tournament. So I don't know that the players would be able to bring family, for example. I don't know that, I'm just guessing. So it's going to be a tough sell. On the other hand, you know, Darren Dregor mentioned this on insider trading last night on TSN,

that he actually, he's told that the response has been pretty good so far from some pretty good young Canadian players, that you might see a Thomas Shabbat or a Carter Hart, etc. So that's, I don't know, that bodes well for canon. Again, I think that's the clear carrot, right, of being trying to get on the radar for for Doug Armstrong and Beijing. So can't speak for Team USA, but certainly on the team Canada side of things, it looks like they'll get a few decent players. And that will be interesting. Yeah, might be worth that.

Yeah, I'm curious about it. I got to tell you the guy I'm curious about, you know, a guy like Carter Hart. Does he get an invite? Does he decide to go? Yeah. I just mentioned them. Yeah. Yeah.

I just said I wanted to see if you were paying attention to me. Do you think he goes? See, I think this could be critical to. Yeah, I think I'll go. Yeah. All right. It's time to go to a break. You know, some days you just don't have it, right?

I mean, so. As promised, joined now by Columbus Blue Jackets, GM, Yarmal Keckelan. Yarmal, thank you for coming to hang out with us. I did a little, I did some research this morning and math is not my strong suit, certainly in the early morning. But I think you started with the Ottawa senators in 1995, which would make roughly 26 years, not continuous. You were back in Finland doing management stuff at one point. But that's a long time to be in the machinery of NHL management. And I wonder when you look back at this season, if. If there's any way to prepare for, you know, what happened this year with you guys in Columbus and in the NHL, any way to prepare for all of the challenges of this season as we head down the stretch? Well, we tried to do everything we could to prepare for a season. You know, there's been a lot of curveballs starting from the pandemic and the environment or circumstances that we have to deal with and everything around the protocol. by no means and excuse everybody's dealing with the same stuff.

And you got to just keep getting through it. But I've been part of some bills that took a long time before the team got good. Never as a GM in the NHL, obviously it's a little bit different. But yeah, it's never, never fun going through a stretch like we're going through right now. But as we said at the deadline, we felt that it was necessary at this time to do a little bit of a reload. We didn't think it was going to be easy down the stretch. That's for sure everybody's battling for their divisional spot, not only for the playoffs in the last couple of spots there or the last spot in our division, I should say, but also the seating and they're all hungry for the points. and we're just battling for our lives right now to stay in every game and do the best we can.

But yeah, it's been a, I always say it's a great learning experience when you go through adversity. It's not fun. It's not something you often want to learn from, but I think that times like this reveal character both in players and in management and staff. And you're just going to take those lessons and move forward and be better for it. Well, Yarmour, I'll preface this comment by knowing that GMs really don't enjoy selling at the trade deadline. They much prefer being on the other side. In fact, probably more fun a couple of years ago loading up and upsetting the 62 and lightning in the first-year-hound.

But I will say that if I had to crown a champion of the deadline this year, I think we would give you the title, given what you got back for a couple of pending UFAs. And I know they're good players and Nick Delino means a lot to the franchise. They hit so far as a top 4D. But I will tell you that, and I said it on this podcast, so I have to sort of single myself out for being wrong. I did not think you can get a first round pick for either of those players. And I was absolutely blown away that you were able to orchestrate that. I was wondering if you could walk us through both deals as far as building that market up for each player.

I think it just says how much teams value character. And those two players have great character. They're great teammates. They're both leaders in their own way. And that's where the value comes from. It's not always just the things that you see on the ice and the points and the statistics and the underlying numbers that everybody's talking about. it's the intangibles. And you can count on those two guys to come to the battle every single night,

every single shift. And that's why our team has been successful in the past few years. We made the playoffs four years in a row because we had our core full of guys like that that show up every night, every day for work, even on the non-game days, and set the standard for everybody else. And I think that that's the easy explanation in my books for the value that we got for them. And it wasn't just one team or two teams.

It was several teams for both of those guys. And I truly believe that it's because of the character they both have. I think a day before the Savard deal, I think the Savard deal went down on Saturday. It's such a blur for me. And the day before, I had a source from a team, say, you know, Yarmu was telling people he already had a first on the table. And I was trying to figure out if you were doing the poker thing or if you really had it. But clearly, you already had that on the table from death, I guess.

Yeah, I don't bluff in those situations because then if you bluff and all of a sudden you don't have it and you have to call that team back. And they say, well, you already told us you had a first round on the table. you look a little foolish. I'm not much of a car player anyway, so I don't bluff if I make that statement, then that is on the table. Obviously, something can change if they go with another player

and all of a sudden, the offer that was on the table is gone, but no, I don't bluff. And in this case, I tried to keep everybody interested in form that here's the ongoing price if you want to stay in the race, that this is what you're going to have to pay.

And like I said, there was competition for those players. So for our future and future parts and picks that we could get for them, there was a great situation because we had a few teams competing against each other. And we were happy with the return and sad with the departure of the players. But like I said, it needed to be done at this time. And we weren't right from the start of the year. It didn't look like we were a team that was going to come. compete for the Stanley Cup this year and that's always the ultimate goal. I think, you know,

making the playoffs is great and at least get an opportunity to compete for the Stanley Cup. I also say that the worst thing to do in this league is to finish one point out of the playoffs and draft 14th and now we're 15th. And, you know, we were so inconsistent down the stretch. We were in the hunt. We were in the race for a long time, even with the inconsistent play. But once we dropped out of it and it became pretty evident that we weren't going to make the playoffs, this needed to be done. And now we have some assets that we can either use for picks or trades. As I've said, many times, it's going to be an interesting summer with the expansion draft coming up and teams being cap squeezed and with salaries going up through the arbitration process. There's probably going to be some players available that you never thought.

would be because teams have to fit under the salary cap. So I think it's good to have those assets. I think we can speed up our process here a little bit. And that's why we're calling it to reload. We have some young players that are maturing here fairly quickly. And it needed to be done. But now I haven't gone through this rough patch after the deadline. It hasn't been fun, but we didn't really.

expected to be easy to be honest with you. We thought we're going to go through some struggles here down the stretch with the players that departed being such a big part of our team for such a long time. Yarmal, I'm curious about how you pivot now as a GM to where your focus is between now and the end of the regular season. And of course, then, you know, looking ahead to the draft in July, you've got three first round picks, but you've also got young players that I'm assuming that when you watch your roster on a nightly basis, that this is sort of like an extended tryout period for the young players

that are currently within the Blue Jackets organization. I wonder how important this next period of time is for you when you look ahead to the draft, but also trying to assess what you already have in house. Yeah, it's very important. We evaluate every night. And as I said, the adversity and reveals character. And we want a full effort, 100% effort every night and compete through this. And we're not going to give up and we're not going to lie down here and surrender for the rest of the year. We're going to try to compete as hard as we can. And that's a big part of the evaluation is that we want that type of character that we've had.

all these years that we had some success. And we want that type of players on our roster. And it's definitely an opportunity for these younger players to show that they could belong in this level and take a bigger role on the team moving forward. And, yeah, we got some games left here. And every game and every shift is an opportunity to show us. Yeah, and you've got Capspace entering the off-season, Yarmot now,

you know, as I think you once told me, there's cap space, but then you've got to peel back the onion and look at where that cap space might go. And obviously, in your case, you know, perhaps a huge off season as far as Seth Jones being a year away from the UFA, right? I think Zach Wrenski's in the same boat.

So how do you think you approach all those things as far as building, you know, continuing to build around those two, you know, very special players? Yeah, we have that caps. for next year and then it will probably go pretty fast after that with the players that we need to sign. So you have to be pretty careful with the term of players you signed this summer. So knowing that it'll affect the cap space years after when we really do need it again.

So it's a delicate process. But it's a problem that we've looked at very closely. and I think it's very doable. And the players that you mentioned, they are the new leadership of our group and the core of our group. Seth Jones is one of those players, for me, through every tough game that we've had

after the deadline has shown tremendous leadership on the ice, off the ice. He's battling like hell every game to show that, the type of character that we want here. And that's great to see. And when a guy like that sets an example, that's the best type of leadership.

He's been tremendous. So, yeah, it's going to be interesting, but I think that we'll have some great opportunities ahead of us, too. Do you have a plan for both Seth and Zach in terms of a time? timing in terms of how you would like things to unfold. Can you characterize sort of how if you've had initial talks or if you've got a plan that you'd like to see unfold as you think about heading into next fall and hopefully a return to normalcy around the world, certainly within the NHL walls, how you hope it might unfold?

Yeah, I'd like to see both of those guys in blue jackets, do you in for long term? and for a long time and hopefully for the rest of their careers. They're the heart and soul of our team. I've said this many times. I think they're among the best deep pairings in the league. They log up 25 to 28 minutes every night, play all special teams situations, power play, penalty killing all the crucial situations of the game,

whether you're protecting the lead or whether you're one goal behind. Those guys are always on the ice. They're against the team. other teams best forwards. They can defend. They can create offense. They're big guys that can battle and have shown through the toughest of the playoff series that they can rise on to another level.

So we definitely want to keep that type of players for long term. I think they both have great character too and leadership, as I mentioned about Seth Jones, but I think Zach Wrenski is that too. and, well, both are not real vocal, loud guys, but both are determined to win and driven to win and guys that their hands don't shake when the big games are on the line, and those are the guys you need.

Yes, we certainly saw that in the play in the series, went over Toronto last summer. Now, Yermo, I think, you know, I've known you long enough, I'm not going to be around the bush. I think part of the reason those two contract situations are paramount for your franchise and you can agree or disagree, but it's been a tough couple years here

for players that have left. And, you know, Carol of Du Bois, first of all, I still remember, Scott, I think you're at the draft too, being in the rink at that draft where you took DuPua over Yassi Piliardi, and I could hear the hush in the crowd.

I've never heard that in 25 plus years ago in NHL drafts. I could hear the hush in the crowd. And then I remember after the draft, walking past the interview area and all the Finnish journalists were grilling you. And they're going to never forget that either. But you seem to be handling it just fine. In a way, a long way of saying you had invested a lot in parallel Dubois.

And he, you know, it's a body blow. When a player like that asks for a trade, it's really hard. You know, you traded Josh Anderson in the offseason when it didn't look like you could sign him. We know about Panarin and Brovowski. So, again, with Jones and Morinsky in mind, how important is this offseason as far as changing the perception of some of those things? You know, particularly, I would say that, you know, Dubois forcing. Yeah, and I think each one of those situations were different from each other. You know, we've been kind of labeled as a destination or city or franchise that players didn't want to stay.

stay with and that's not really accurate and it kind of aggravates me because there's a lot of things behind the scenes that you really can't talk about you know we we make plans um with who we want to sign and who we want to continue with and then when the player departs everybody says that he didn't want to stay but that's not always accurate so um it's it's a it's a two-way street i've said it many times that we would have kept Artie Pinaran at any price. We offered him a contract that's by far the biggest contract in the franchise history ever offered. But he had his mindset of going to New York and not much you can do about it. We did everything that we possibly could to keep him. But that was the player that we wanted to keep. But everybody talks about the five

departures or whatever the number was that year. That's not that. not really accurate what happened but I'm not going to get into any more detail of that. And then, you know, Pierre Luc Dubois, he did what he did and we had to make a trade and Josh Anderson's situation is completely different too because it was it was more about the business and we offered him a long-term contract that we thought was very fair and I think that with the Canadian taxis he probably would have made more money with us had he stayed with us, but then you have to make a decision with the player that has arbitration rights and one year left before he gets the UFA, whether you're going to battle that battle

and let him walk into free agency or trade him at the deadline that year or try to trade him the year before and get more return that way. That's the route we took and so on. So every situation with each one of those players was a little bit different and challenging. but we have a lot of players here, a lot of players that have departed from Columbus, Scott Harden, they'll be one of them who always speaks very highly of Columbus

and his experience over here. And he was in a few good places in the NHL and played in the NHL for a long time, over a thousand games, and he should know. And we have a very strong alumni guys that decided to stay in Columbus after their career. One of my best friends, Freddie Moudin, won the Cup in Tampa Bay, and decided to live in Columbus.

Rick Nash probably could live anywhere in the world if you wanted to. And he resides in Columbus. So it's a great place to live and a great city and a passionate sports city. When you look at the football games with 105,000 people in the normal times, every game, and the passion that the fans in Ohio have for sports and hockey. You look at the atmosphere that we had in the playoff games and when we had some success, it was incredible. I've never seen anything like it.

I get chills just thinking about it. So it would be an incredible place to win the Stanley Cup and a great place to live. So I think the reputation that we've gotten that people don't want to be in Columbus is nonsense and we're a bit offended by it because I think that we have a right from the ownership down. We have a great franchise and we treat people the right way. We have great facility. We make it as good of a place for a pro athlete to be as it could possibly be.

And I think we do the things the right way and have high expectations. and we've had a good team. So I don't know what more you want as a pro athlete, but if you want a city of 20 million people, then that's something we can't offer. If you want an ocean front, that's something we can offer. And those are decisions that once you become understricted free agents, you're allowed to make.

You have earned that right. So we do the best we can to make it appealing and get the guys that we want as part of our core of our team to stay. But at the end of the day, it's up to the players. And then if they don't want to stay, we wish him the best of luck, which I did with our Timi Panera and with sadness. Because when we got him from Chicago, I thought he could be one of the best players in the league.

I think he's proven that he's one of the best players in the league. Right up there with the best of them in my evaluation. evaluation. And I think he's shown that in New York. He should be in the heart trophy consideration last year, this year. I think he's going to be there every year for the foreseeable future. And I'm certainly sad that we couldn't convince him to stay. But he's a good person and he was a great teammate and I wish him nothing but the best. But, you know, we keep building and a lot of our guys love it in Columbus. So that's something. that we're a little bit offended by that there seems to be some kind of a reputation that Columbus is not a good place to be.

Yermo, I can tell you, both Pierre and I have spent lots of nights in Columbus, and we like Columbus. Now, I know you don't sign the writers. But you talk about building, you know, what you are building in Columbus. And one of the important building blocks, of course, is going to be your head coach and whoever that is. I just think it's interesting. You took over as GM in Columbus in February of 13 and the fall of 15. You hired John Tortorella. You've traveled a lot of road together with that team and had lots of ups and a few downs.

But can you describe how you expect things to unfold as you and John come to a decision on what's going to happen with the coaching position in Columbus? He's at the end of his deal and we'll see what happens. But how do you expect that to unfold? I will sit down face to face after the season like we do on daily basis here on everything that's going on around the team. I have tremendous amount of respect for what he's done for the franchise and for the team and for a lot of individuals in their development. He's a demanding coach. He's as honest as they come. Some players handle it well.

Some players don't. But as I say to all the players that kind of struggle with his style of coaching, is that later on you're going to appreciate somebody telling you the truth right to your face rather than telling you something that you want to hear in front of you and something else behind your back. That's never going to happen with torts, and that's why there are some conflicts every once in a while. And me and him have some heated conversations every once in a while too, but it never gets personal. We get through it and we shake hands and move forward. and I really respect that kind of character that he has.

He's a very interesting guy. And we've had a lot of lengthy conversations about coaching and player evaluation and player development. Sometimes we don't agree and we agree to disagree and move forward and keep talking about it and keep reflecting on our conversations. and I think that he's made me a better general manager, understanding the coaching side better, and hopefully I've had a little bit of influence and him and understanding the player development side

and the projections that we have for players and the roles we expect them to play and how fast you can get there. Those are the kind of topics that we talk about almost daily, and it's been interesting to say the least, but as I said, he's a great coach. He's got all these wins in the league, and he stayed in the league for a long time for a reason.

And I have a lot of respect for him. I mean, as you point out, I mean, there have been, you know, whether it was Pierre-Luc Dubois or Patrick Lainey after he arrived, certainly most recently, you know, Max Domey out of the lineup after some things happened that John didn't like. Do you guys talk about those kinds of decisions, roster decisions on a daily basis or do you step back from that or I'm just curious again we work together

so long that I'm assuming that you know the doors are open both ways but I'm wondering on those kinds of decisions do you what's that what's your relationship like with John on on those kinds of things oh we talk about it heatedly after after every one of those and after every game and yeah we don't always always agree on the on the um on those decisions, but he's adamant about the way he does things. And I've always had the philosophy that you let the coach coach the way he does. You give me your opinion. He calls that I nudge him.

And I try to on some decisions that leave into his roster decisions or other decisions. But then I let him coach because that's his role. And he does it well. But yeah, we've had several conversations about it. You know, Patrick Clyde at benching, for example, you know, did we disagreed on the punishment on the crime? I guess that's the best way I could put it. I mean, I understand where he was coming from and why the decision was made when he was

benched. But I just disagreed on the punishment on the crime. And that's where I leave it. But, you know, he's a good coach and he's said in his ways and values and principles. And I have a lot of the same ones and I feel strongly about them. And yeah, that's that's our daily process. We talk about those things. We talk about the decisions and the games and practice.

and on individuals and the system we play with, the special teams and all kinds of different things that we deal with on daily basis. Almost done here, Yermo, and thanks again for taking this time today. Such a fascinating conversation. We should touch on Mining. One thing that interests me, and I know they're completely different situations and you're not going to want to comment on what's going on in Winnipeg. the biggest trade in years in this league, at least in season, at the start of the season. But, you know, I think Dubois still trying to find himself in Winnipeg. And I don't think it's gone that great for Patrick with you guys. It's interesting.

Now, are there reasons for that or obviously, what's your sense of, you know, the outcome of that deal so far? Well, I always say when you guys rate the traits who won and who didn't, and you do that one after the trade was made. I do that five years after the trade, but that's just me. And I know you guys have to come up with interesting topics, and I respect that, but it takes time I've talked to.

We have so many old NHL players in our staff, and we've talked at length about the experience of getting traded and how it might take quite a long time before you get, used to the new environment, the teammates, find chemistry, all those things. So good players find a way, some find it quicker, some take a little bit more time and how they fit and how comfortable they feel and how they're all evolves and all those things. So it always takes time and we're going to be patient with the guys that we got.

And, you know, it's work in progress there. I think, you know, Jack Roslovick has shown a lot of promise with us, too. He's, I think he's got by far the most points out of those three after the trade was made. And nobody talks about him. But he's definitely worth it. It wasn't called the Jack, it wasn't called the Jack Roslick trade. No, no. But, I mean, he's working progress on the other side of the puck.

He's learning to play center for the first time, full time in the NHL. and the defensive side has been a challenge. The face-off circle has been a challenge for. But those are the things a young player can learn if he has the drive and desire to do that. And, you know, he expressed strong desire to play center in the league to us. And I think that was part of it, why he wanted out of Winnipeg, that he wasn't given the opportunity to do that,

but you also have to earn that opportunity. So it's, you know, it's been an interesting process with him too, but he's only 22 years old. And it's got a long way to go as a player, but there's a lot of potential there too. So we look forward to growing and growing with players like that. But as I said, you always have to earn your role. You always have to earn your ice time. And that comes through hard work and desire to get better every day. and that to me is always the biggest thing with the young players,

whether you're looking at the draft or the trade that you just made for young players, is that does he have that character and desire to become a better player every single day? Because if you're wasting days, you're wasting an opportunity to get better and you'll never get that day back. And that's a strong message that we always give to our young players

that don't waste any days because you can never go back and recapture that opportunity. It's gone. And that's why the process that we have here with John Tororella has been so valuable because when you're with him and when you're practicing with him, he's not going to allow you to waste any days or he's going to throw you off the ice to go think about it in the locker room. And all the good coaches have that.

They're not going to let the team waste. any days of development in that process to get better. Yarmal, I think that's a process we could all learn from, is not to waste any days, that is for sure. But it's always great to catch up with you. And it's a fascinating time ahead for you and the Blue Jackets. But thanks for spending some time and walking us through all this kind of stuff. So thank you and really the best of luck to you as you move forward.

Thank you very much. Thanks for having me. Thank you. Ola Huber. Pierre, I'm always enthused when I talk to Yarmou, because he's so direct and so honest. And I, you know, I give him all kinds of credit because, you know, to come and chat and I was just like, it's amazing, frankly, to look at the standings now technically in eighth place in the Central Division.

And really, I just, I could not have seen this coming. I really liked this team. I didn't know if they were going to be a playoff team. man, this has been, this has been, you know, a very difficult season and a huge step back for this team. But I just love his attitude and it's going to be fascinating to see what happens, three first round picks, all those kinds of things. What's your, you know, what's your gut tell you about what's going on in Columbus? Well, first of all, I mean, he really did, I don't know if you agree or not, but who had a better trade deadline than him. And maybe I just didn't think first round picks would be flying around like they did, but I can't believe he got that return.

And listen, I really, in particular, value Nick Foligno, but still, I did not think he would get it first. Did you? I mean, I didn't. No, I didn't think any rental player. I thought it first went, it would be younger player, player with term. No, I'm with you. I did not think it was going to happen, let alone that it would happen twice for. the same team. Yeah. So that part

was tremendous. But it's a huge offseason. And again, credit to Kake Lennon for really answering it head on. He's got Extend Jones, one of the best defensemen in the world. He's got to extend Morinsky, very talented defensemen.

Got to figure out lining. And I don't want to read between the lines too much because it's unfair to do that. But when I asked him about lying, he didn't really talk about him. So I think there's clearly some disappointment about how lining has played so far. But more importantly, he's up, he's RFA.

And so I'm so curious how that contract negotiation goes, partnered with, I know some front offices that are planning to kick tigers on that situation. So I don't know. So that one's interesting. But, you know, he's got cap room. I think what he was hinting at with that. like, you know, there are teams that are going to be really in trouble with the flat cap. And we've seen the premium already paid, right, with what it costs to get out of that jam.

So I think there's some opportunities there. Yeah, there's some opportunities there for Columbus. So that will be interesting. And we know that he's not, the Herman Cape Lundon is not scared to make some pretty big moves. And so I think he's going to be in the middle of a lot of things. off-season. Yeah. Well, and he's got, you know, we didn't even talk about it, but he's got two goaltenders

who are, I think, you know, you make the case, case that both Elvis Mers Lickens and Eunice Corpusallo are starting NHL goaltenders. They both have a year left on their respective deals. They have zero. They don't have any trade protection. So he's, you know, again, that's, you know, whether it's a team like Edmonton or whatever happens. I mean, there's going to be a lot going on.

But before we go to a break. To me, all of this comes back to, or so much of this comes back to what happens with Jordan Tortorella. And again, I just love how Yarmour was so candid about like, you know, they obviously have not, and I don't think it's important, but they obviously have not always been in lockstep on exactly what's happening with the roster, how it's deployed. You know, this whole Max Domi thing is a real, you know, it has not worked out, right? Just has not worked out. Now does it change if someone else is coaching that team? I don't know, but again, what's your gut telling you? And again, I've been on this this year.

I think Aaron Portsline are terrific esteemed Blue Jack as beatwriter has as well. Keep in mind that with the John Tortorella situation, it's not your prototypical situation where the coach, I think, is begging and hoping he's going to get extended. You know, I think that my sense of the situation is that John Torterrella himself has to decide what he wants. which is interesting. It's a little different than your normal situation, right, with a coach? Right. And so it's a two-way street there.

One, Keelonen has to decide about the coach, and I think the coach has to decide about what he wants. So that in itself makes it quite compelling in terms of what's going to happen. Yeah. Well, yes, that team has provided no. end of storylines and narratives during this crazy season, that's for sure. And it won't stop between now and the end of the draft. And as we look ahead to training camp next year, it's going to be fascinating. So anyway, good stuff by you.

All right, as promised, we're going to go come back with some questions and wrap things up. Just curious, Pierre, do you think Carter Hart's a good bet to go to Worlds for Team Canada? I want to get this on the record. He's a good debt to be asked. Hopefully he says yes. But yes. Good work. Good work.

All right. See, I thought I rebounded well with the Yarmu interview. I'm okay. It's like, hey, you get a bad shift every once in a while, right? Thank God Torz is not coaching us. Or I had to been benched. I wouldn't be around for the final segment. All right.

And this is what we're going to come back to a question from Matthew Jex, M. Jex 19. Which underrated trade will be this year's sneaky good acquisition, a la Michael Kempney. I gave you a hint, so you can't blow this up. Hmm. I'll give you a couple. And yes, I do agree that I do like... Yanni Hock and Pop. Yeah, I'm going to get to that last. I'm going to give you a weird one, because I don't even know where for sure going to see him, but I hope Riley Nash, by the least, because a lot of people just viewed that at an LTIR deal. Kind of a little wrinkle of the least it, but a few days before the deadline to give themselves more room.

And of course, that was a type of effort. But Ivan Nash is a really good fourth-line player. I've grown to admire through some of the playoffs series that I've seen Colin this point. If and when he gets healthy, I think that's a nice little add-on for the least in the bottom six. And so there's an example, I believe, what could be end up being a similar pick.

But yeah, I think Hack and Paw is an interesting pick-up by Carolina. They wanted some physicality. They wanted a right-handed shot. After the trade was made, I had a front office guy from a rival team immediately say, oh, that's going to be a good fit for Carolina. So that's a great example there. Because let's be honest, that's not it. If that deal created any headlines of the deadline day, it was more because at first round pick and hate to worry about Delta.

And the guy I'm so curious about, and he's already made an impact. And you and I had talked about him. I remember talking to Eric DeHattrick about it, but Sam Bennett going to Florida. Florida from Calgary, you know, obviously just didn't, it wasn't really a fit for him in Calgary, a high pick and, boy, just, you know, he's got three goals to assist in three games for Florida. And as you pointed out earlier, what a great series, that Panther Lightning first ever all Florida playoff series. It would be Titanic. Honestly, I just, it would be so much fun. And I think San Ben is going to be, he's a guy who can elevate come playoff time too.

So good pick up there. How about this? How about a couple from Steve Van Eyck? Yes, does Minnesota have the best goalie duo in Cochanan and Talbot? Interesting. I think there are some others out there, but what do you think? Well, I think pretty hard to beat Mark Conjee Fleur and Robin Lennar. That was a goal that would be one. I think when they're healthy, Carrie Price and Jake Allen are hard to beat. all they need now is some goal support from our teammates. So those would be my talk to pair.

But yeah, I think the point of the question is what story. That is absolutely right. And what a story Minnesota is. I mean, you know, they keep winning games and you keep handing. I mean, I think that I couldn't have been more direct last week when we talked about this. But we keep handing Vegas and Colorado second round entries, right? but boy of the wild I've played a good team game as anyone in that

it might lead to your next question by the way about the Jack Hat. All right. Also, going back you've taken over the Ask the Dork segment here. From Maureen how about, she's asked about a number of

different trophies, but I am curious about Coach of the Year and how you see that shaking down. So I do think Dean Anderson deserves to be in the conversation. So let me preface this by saying that I'm going based on how the voters use the vote. You and I don't vote on this one, but this is a broadcaster's award to Jack Adams. It's not right. But, you know, it really comes down usually the criteria is the teams that surprises the most.

So I think based on that, we look at what people thought of Minnesota before the year. And I'm not saying people thought they'd be lousy, but I think people will view them as a bubble team, right? And they've certainly exceeded that. But if you really ask me, the guy that there's a couple more names I want to get to Paul Maurice in Winnipeg,

the Jets were not a favorite pick. It's funny now everyone's, I think, trying to fugs that and say, oh, we really just be good. I'm telling you,

I asked a lot of people before the season about the Alcanan division. The Jets were rarely picked in the top four. So I think Paul Mores's work has been terrific this year.

But the guy that I think should win is Joel Gwendo. And again, You go to the criteria and how this award has felt out. No one saw this from the Florida Panthers. Nobody. And it's real.

It's sustainable. It continues to happen. I'd be surprised if you didn't want to check out of it. All right. I'm going to throw in Rod Brindamore there. I just, you know, continues to be for my money. Well, sure, but here's the thing. Yeah.

Okay. Like, you know, Brindamore, Pete the Boar, Jared Bettner. No, no, but I mean, obviously their teams are great, but I mean they were supposed to be great, I guess. Which is unfortunate. It should be that way. Yeah, no, I know what I'm true. But I think that's what's going to hurt for me.

And I want to do, I wouldn't give the final question. And I'm going to, I'm out. My friend Al-Lolan sends a question every week. Mostly it's about personal grooming and whether you and I take yoga classes together and stuff like that. But his question this week, I'm just curious as we close out and it's interesting, given our conversation with Yarmal, is that basically given the challenge for scouting for the 21 draft, right? The OHL just canceled.

It's basically shut down for the rest of the season. It's just, you know, it's all over the place. Do you think that there will be teams who draft high, and whether that's Columbus or Detroit or Ottawa, who have had, you know, have a collection of high picks, maybe because of the uncertainty, they might be willing to trade those picks for a more known commodity. So younger players with term or players that are NHL ready

on other in other organizations. Does that make sense? And I think it's an interesting question given how uncertain. Yeah, I think that's what you are more into that. If you listen to his answer on now, the fact that he's got three first round picks and this and that, I think he said whether we decide to use them or what capacity we use those. Except that's actually why you think back at our interview committee.

So, yeah, that could be interesting because the jackets aren't entering a reboot. We're trying to flip this around quickly with the assets they have. and the assets they have that are most noble. We have three first round things in this drive and momentary capsaries for this office. Those are two powerful weapon infantry, which is a crazy year around the Seattle expansion. Good. Good job by you. All right.

And good job by Al. What else we got it going on in the podcast world, former NHLer? Kevin Week, such a great guy. The lead studio analyst at NHL Network is Craig Kustin's guest this week on the full 60 as a guy who sort of dipped his toe into various management openings around the NHL. I think that's probably going to happen at some point for him. And Alex Tongay, assistant coach with the Iowa Wild. You know what?

I don't know if I knew that. Joins Mike Russo on Straight from the Source this week at the Athletic. Interesting guy, Alex Tongay, great career for him. And you should check out our comments section for each podcast episode at the athletic app. And rate and subscribe to the athletic hockey show on. Apple, if you aren't already a subscriber, go to theathletic.com slash hockey show and receive a subscription for just $3.99 per month. My friend, I apologize, I was a little bit off. You know, I had a slow start to this, slow start to the podcast day, but thank you for picking me up.

It's okay. It's the dog days of the season. I know you'll have your A game come to playoffs.