The Athletic Hockey Show - Jason Spezza rejuvenated in Toronto. Burke & Hextall in Pittsburgh, Koivu calls it a career, & Laine benched by Torts

Episode Date: February 10, 2021

Jason Spezza, the hometown Toronto Maple Leafs centre joins Scott and Pierre on the Two Man Advantage edition of the Athletic Hockey Show.Spezza talks about what it means to him to play for his childhood team, how every game is like a playoff game this season in the North, and what he has his eye on, once his playing days are over.Plus Pierre and Scott discuss the Penguins hiring of Brian Burke as their President of Hockey Operations and Ron Hextall as the new GM in Pittsburgh.Burnside and Lebrun also take a look at the career of Mikko Koivu who called it a career on Tuesday, the controversy in Columbus surrounding Patrik Laine being benched by John Tortorella. The guys also praise the work of Barry Trotz behind the Islanders bench and how the Canucks might be able to get out of their latest tailspin. As always, the guys wrap the show answering your questions via twitter, including topics on the trade deadline, Florida Panthers and the Winter Olympics.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey everybody, Scott Burnside back for another edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. Two-man Advantage. Here we are just about the middle of February. Pierre LeBrun, this season is off the charts. We have stuff happening around the clock. Obviously, we're going to be talking about the new management hires in Pittsburgh. We're going to talk Miko Koivu's shocking retirement as the non-stop. news story that is Columbus Blue Jackets chugs on and how great it's going to be we're going to talk

to Jason Spetzel later in this podcast but how are you doing did you you manage to catch a breath yesterday was a busy day for you yeah it was a busy day for a lot of us I did I did and this is perfect timing I love this part of the week I love your brother so let's just get going all right okay well let's let's start with the now there's a bunch of different news but And I'm going to make the arbitrary decision, but I'd like to start with Ron Hextall, long-time foe of the Pittsburgh Penguins and maybe Pittsburgh Penguins fans, the new GM of the Penguins. Although he did great be pointed out in his video call, like his dad played for the Penguins. He had some formative years in Pittsburgh as a young boy learning to play street hockey and stuff. new GM. And for me, maybe the most interesting part of the Penguins reshuffling of its organization,

Brian Burke coming in as head of hockey ops. And talk about contrasting personalities, talk about huge hockey IQ all of a sudden being dropped into upper management with the penguins. What do you make of all that? Yeah, well, first on Hextall, as you know, in our off-the-air conversation, He was the last couple weeks. He was the guy that I felt should get it, and I didn't know whether it would happen or not. Because one of the things you never know is, okay, both sides seem to think it's a fit, but then they start talking contract. And in this particular time in our lives, the financial landscape, I was curious how that would go.

But they were able to negotiate a deal. So that part didn't shock me. I felt that he was a heavyweight going into that process. I was completely floored by the Brian Burke hire, A, because Burke had told a lot of people he was probably done with working for teams after he left Calgary. And B, as I wrote in The Athletic, you know, the penguins have never had a president of hockey operations. They used to always, if you spoke to different people in the organization, we don't need one. We have Marilyn Mew.

And it's only half joking, right? I mean, that was sort of the sentiment that they didn't need a hockey person. and above the GM position all these years. So it's a complete departure for them, but it kind of came organically late in the process, as David Morehouse explained on the media call yesterday, that they had been secretly sort of using Brian Burke as a sounding board throughout the GM vetting process.

And Marilyn Mew went to David Morrhouse and said, well, what about Berkey? And after talking to Ron Berkel about it, they went ahead and offered him a job. But again, the interesting. part of all this and I'm not, I mean, it's okay. These things aren't. I was happening in a smooth way, but then they have to go to Ron Hxtall and make sure he was okay with it, right? Because they basically had him pretty much almost at the finish line or close to when they were willing to hire

Brian Burke. So they hired the GM before the president of hockey operations in many ways. What do you make of the whole, you know, the partnership? Because I mean, certainly what I took away from it is that, you know, Brian Burke is going to, he's going to speak in, on many levels and in many cases for the Pittsburgh Penguins moving forward. And my sense of it is, and, you know, I'm not going to overstate my relationship with Ron Hextall. But, you know, in my dealings with Ron over the years, very low key, he's not a, he's not a guy who seeks the spotlight. And, you know, he's developed this reputation as a builder, right? He's a critical part of the King's Cup wins in 12 and 14. He did an admirable job in Philadelphia in his first full-time GM job in building what I think is a very good Philadelphia team.

But he's not a, he's not a front and center guy. And Brian Burke is. Do you like the potential for those two different personalities, you know, to sort of come together? Or do you see them as different in that way at all? No, I think it's going to come in handy for Hextall to have Burke as a buffer, if you will. you know, to have Burke maybe handle calls from Morehouse and Merrill Lemieux at times and sort of let Hexwell work in his cocoon. I think that'll be run of real advantages of having Brian Burke in that role. I mean, I think Brad Tree Living benefited from that when he was a young GM, especially in Calgary, when Brian Brick was still there.

So that part for sure. And you're right. I, you know, and Chuck Fletcher is the first to say it, by the way, because that's how Chuck Fletcher is. He's class as they come, but, I mean, Ron Hextall's work in Philly was, I think, more appreciated after his departure than while he was still there in the building of that Flyers team. But everyone makes mistakes. And, you know, certainly I know Haxthal was criticized locally in the Philly market for hanging in too long with what they've Haxthol's coach. You know, does he learn from that? Um, you know, there was this talk about whether he, he struggled to communicate with others in the front office about his plans.

He really debunked that in the interview I did with him last August and that piece I wrote on Hextall and the Flyers. But nevertheless, you learn from your first go around as a GM in this league. And the league is rich in its history and second chance GMs really taken off. I think of D. Lombardi First time GM in San Jose made some mistakes, also made some really good decisions but ultimately gets fired. His second chance is in L.A. and he wins two cups. And he talks about what he learned in San Jose.

And there's lots of other examples like that. So I really like the GM hire. I also think that the task at hand is unbelievably delicate and will not be easy to try and compete for a bit while knowing that, let's just say it for what it is, the abyss is around the corner. I mean, there's not a lot coming in the pipeline. Before we move on, because there's lots of other stuff to get to. But to me, it is fascinating because, and I thought Ron Hextall answered the question about the future and specifically

Sidney Crosby and Hennie Malkin and Chris Lattang very deftly. Because we don't, you know, like he's not coming in to try and turn around and move those guys before the trade deadline, But by the same token, I mean, there is, at some point, there is going to be a day of reckoning. And I think there's always, especially in those rare moments when a GM gets hired midseason, you know, Chuck Fletcher went through this in Philadelphia. Okay, do something. Well, that's not going to happen, right? Ron Hextel's job isn't today to start making moves unless something, you know, appears to him.

But this is something, and whether we see signs of it between now and the trade deadline or the end of the regular season, But there are some potentially difficult choices and decisions coming forward. But Ron HECD's job isn't to rush into them, right? I mean, people will expect something to happen, but nothing's going to happen, right? That's not how it works. No. And listen, like almost any other ownership group, you know, the penguins want to sell tickets next year. And I don't know that they have any appetite timing-wise to gut the Towers.

team before they welcome fans back. So that's why, to be honest, aside from the fact that Sidney Crosby is still one of the greatest players in the game and you could still win with them, I think there's also a hesitance to go into a full tear down now because the timing just isn't right business-wise either. So those are all real-life factors in my mind. Yeah. It would have been great to talk to Aaron Portsline, our great Columbus Blue Jackson. He doesn't have time.

You know what's going to say? Because I imagine that Aaron every day gets up. He puts out 10,000 fires, goes to sleep, gets up and does the same thing the next day because there is no team in the NHL like the Columbus Blue Jackets have been, you know, for quite some time, but certainly this season. And yesterday, it's sort of like a double whammy because you have this, at least it appears from the outside, this almost out of the blue decision by the great Miko Kauivu, such a great presence over his career, long career in Minnesota. and then a very brief stay in Columbus. He announces that he's going to retire. And then, of course, there's not only does Patrick Liny, you know, get into the lineup in Columbus.

He has an immediate impact, but also gets benched for most of the latter part of the Blue Jack's last game. And now it turns out, and Aaron was on this story as well, although the local paper Brian Hedger had it as well with the, you post dispatch in Columbus, but that apparently Patrick Linae mouthing off to one of the assistant coaches or being disrespectful in some manner. And so he gets benched for the latter stations of a close game. Man, that's a lot to unpack. But let's start with line eight. You know, for me, I'm glad. If that's what happened, I got zero problems with John Tortorella

laying down the hammer and saying, no, you stay on the bench because that's, on how we work in this team. Right. Yeah, there's a lot to unpack there. And, you know, I just feel for GM, Yarmou Kay Kalanan. I mean, this is really the trade of his career and don't want this to be happening so, you know, quickly into it. It's been a strange year. I mean, obviously, you don't want Linyy acting this way. And, of course, you know, you don't want your coach bench. him in general, although again, these circumstances are interesting, but it's been an interesting year with torts, and he's in the last year of his deal. He benched Max Domi early in the season, another big trade, right? And went on the radio, talked about Dubois trade request. And so there's a lot,

it's been an up and down year. There's no question that Keke Lennon and Tortorella had a really strong relationship over the years. And I think the GM has always appreciated the meritocracy with which as coach goes about things on the bench, but you want this liney thing to work. I mean, that's, yeah. So situation to monitor. Again, you know, Turtorella's contract expires at the end of the year. Let's see if he gets extended. I mean, to me, you're like it is so many moving parts there, right?

I mean, line A coming up to the end of his deal, the expectation or the hope that he will make a home in Columbus and be part of that Blue Jack his team moving forward. But yeah, no, there's a lot going on there. And I, you know what, I thought that Miko Kovu's comments, too, because a lot of people say, oh, that's the John Tortorello thing too. I thought that Miko Kov took the, you know, very classy way, basically saying, listen, I couldn't compete at the level I felt I needed to compete at. And you know what?

That's probably fair, right? Sometimes it's just, it's time. We've seen other players at the end, you know, trying to. to squeeze one more beer, whatever, whatever, out of it, and it didn't work. And, you know, I mean, John Tortorello's job is to put the best team on the ice that he feels gives him the best chance to win. And I don't know that Miko Kovu is going to be part of that group. And it'll be interesting to see, you know, does he go back to Minnesota and find a role with the wild? Or does he stay? And, you know, is there something he does in Columbus? But tip of the hat to Miko Kovu.

Yeah. And I spoke to his agent, Jerry Johansson. And that was something that Johanson really stressed that this had nothing to do with John Totorella. I mean, this was more personal in the sense that obviously he just couldn't get up for games and probably hard on the family side of things and so on. So, yeah, tip of the hat for sure. And to be honest, I honestly thought we'd have more of these situations, either before the season even started or early in the season. You know, you think of Matt Niskenen, who really shocked everyone by retiring. with term left on his deal, with the flyers,

Johnny Boychuk, the Islanders, I thought we'd have more because the, the circumstances of getting through this season as a player, aside from the fact

you're getting paid, you know, lots of money, are not ideal. This is not a normal season, you know, the protocols and the way in which you're having to live

your day-to-day is not a whole lot of fun. So I, because of that, I thought there would be guys at the end of their career like, why, why am I doing this? More than we've had, actually. No, I'm with you. In fact, I keep bugging Matt Niskin's agency.

Matt will, you know, wants to chat, but he's not, he's not on for it at all. Like, he's completely, no, he's, he's doing his own thing. So, and it's good. And when you need to, you know, Corey Crawford, you get, you got to make, you got to make, you got to make the call. And it's not an easy one to make. And sometimes the timing seems peculiar. And you're trying to draw. Right. I forgot Corey. Yeah. Right.

Yeah. So. All right. What else we want to talk about before we get to Jason Spets? How about, I can tell you, one of the teams that for me, I remain confounded as to why they aren't better is the Vancouver Canucks. And I really felt that their experience in the playoffs, I thought the late ad of Nate Schmidt to the back end. I loved the Brayden Holpey, Thatcher Demko, Tandumbo, Tandum. tandem on paper. I really, I felt that they would,

I felt it would be Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, really, you know, sort of pushing each other at the top of that North Division. And I tell you, it's, it's almost painful to watch because you see Travis Green and you know that he's trying to push every single button. And every single night, some terrible thing happens. Sometimes it's a lot of terrible things,

but sometimes it's just one or two things, you know, the other night against the leaf. Seleafs weren't very good at all. Vancouver, the better team. He ended at Seleafs that end up with the victory. And I know in Vancouver things are, the folks there are not happy in Vancouver. And to me, that's one of the big surprises of this first quarter of the season. Yeah, no, they are not happy.

And, you know, all the Canadian fan bases, you know, where the sport is number one in this country, are unbelievably passionate. But I will tell you, there's a distinctive flavor to. the Canucks fan base, which I love. I mean, honestly, that fan base is so dialed in and on top of the smallest detail with their team. I love the interaction with them, even though they don't always like what I have to say. Yeah, I'm surprised, too. Like, you know, I think I, my Canadian Division rankings at the start of the year, I had Toronto, Montreal, Calgary.

And then I had Emondon, Vancouver in a dead heat. I can't remember if I put it in the Vancouver 4th, but that's sort of how I saw it and A, I've been really wrong about Vancouver so far and I've also been wrong about Winnipeg who is really doing well and in a playoff spot right now. But in a way, you know, the Kinnock's really,

I mean, they've got to tighten up defensively. I know that's in the captain obvious thing, but boy, boy, you cannot. I mean, I covered in studio a lot of the Havs, Vancouver games this year. And the Havs spent all night on two-on-one break. I mean, he's just like the defensive structure, you know, Jake and Markstrom covered up for a lot of defensive liabilities over the last couple of years,

really at an MVP level. And we knew that. I just felt, and I felt pretty confident in this, that the Demko-Hopi duo could, maybe not quite at the same level at Markstrom, but at a pretty decent level also cover up for Sambit. And frankly, that hasn't always been the case this year. Both goalies have been up and down. But again, it's not really about them as much as, the defensive play.

Quinn Hughes' struggle at times. He's going to be unbelievable. I'm not worried about him, but he has. And you have to say it. And again, that's a, you know, it's sensitive to Vancouver market to talk about because obviously they love this kid, as they should. The guy's going to win an Norris trophy.

But he has, he has, you know, the old sophomore thing at times here this year. But it's more than that. I mean, you know, Nate Schmidt has not been great so far. And, you know, I thought he would be. So that's not been a great fit so far. So yeah, lots to chew on there with the Canucks and obviously the heat on Jim Benning, the heat on Travis Green. And one thing that frankly doesn't help, although I'm not suggesting the record would be any different, but it's a Canadian market.

They should have extended Travis Green before the season. I mean, I understand the financial landscape and the uncertainty and everything from the ownership perspective, but you're asking for another. story angle here by having her coach coaching in the final year of his deal. And I think he is a very good coach. So if they think that, they should have just extended him as opposed to waiting on this year. Well, it also doesn't help that, you know, they sort of, you know, they had cap issues. Like every, a lot of the, you know, a lot of NHL teams had cap issues. And, you know, I think they would have.

In fact, I was really, I thought Tyler Juffoli was going to stay. Like my impression was, they love teams. him, he really liked Vancouver, you know, look like he was, you know, they would try, they would be able to find a way. And then it's sort of, you know, Jim Benny is sort of like, well, we, they sort of ran out a runway to get it done. And Tyler Tofoli ends up in Montreal. And, you know, needless to say, I'm just looking at it now, nine goals in 12 games, four assists.

Did he, has he scored all nine against Vancouver? It just seems like it. Eight of the nine, actually. Eight of the nine. But I don't see, I disagree with you. I'm not as pent up about the Tafoli narrative. It looks terrible because he just keeps filling the net. It's more the optics than the reality.

The reality is, like, for example, for all intents and purposes, Neal's Hoglander, the rookie, essentially replaced Tafoli in that lineup. And he's been one of the bright spots. He's been very good. So, again, is Tile Folli play defense? I just want to check. He's not a blue liner, right? No, I'm not saying I should.

I understand that. And you're echoing with a lot of. people are obviously pointing out. I'm just saying I think that one is more overrated as far as an aspect than all this. Like I think, I mean, he was also hurt, you know, he was a trade deadline pickup, got hurt. He played about 10 games for the Canucks, I think, right? Played well, like he seemed like he fit in right away. But I guess I don't see it as, it's not like he was there for five years and left this gaping void in my mind. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that's fair. All right. We're, And we're going to say just before we go to a break, though, we're going to have Jason Spetsa on the other side.

We're talking kudos and tip of the hat. How about Barry Trots? Third all time in coaching wins. And it's so, you know, it's so great. We didn't really get around to it last week when Ken Hitchcock was on. We were talking about the Olympics. But, you know, Barry and Ken are close friends, their colleagues. They have been, you know, have worked really closely together.

They do so much within the coaching community. community in terms of sharing their time and insight and thoughts. And now, Barry Trots, third all time, no question of my mind at some point. No need to rush him into retirement. But he's, he's Hall of Fame bound. And truly, you know, to me, he's just such an important part of the fabric of the league as a whole. But certainly within the coaching fraternity, I'm, you know, I'm not sure there are many or any who have the respect that Barry Trots has within his peer group.

So good for him. Totally. And just an amazing career arc. You know, you think about the expansion predators and all the years he put in there. It's, you know, he's just not stopped, basically, from that point on. And it's interesting because I think when you're the coach of an expansion team, that can cut two ways because there's not going to be a lot of winning early on in those days. It's different now with the new rules for Vegas and Seattle. But in those days, and it just goes. to show that people who know the game knew what Barry Trots was up to there. And that's why David Poil kept him around as long as he did as well in Nashville. Good point. Yes. Well, maybe we'll pry Barry loose and he can come and join us at some point on the two-man advantage before we get done in the season. Maybe he'll be having a Gatorade while he's on and talk about how smooth it is, smooth. Yeah. Well, you've got to stay hydrated, my friend. That's the, that was of the many things as the caps were marching to their Stanley Cup in 2000. I do remember. And there were some warnings, you know, especially in the final in Vegas.

You did need to stay hydrated. So no question. No, no comment. All right, my friends, here we go, as promised, a terrific guest for us, joining us on Two Man Advantage today, Jason Spessa of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Jason, thanks for coming and hanging out with Pierre. It's a treat to. have you aboard. Yeah, no problem. Thanks for inviting me on, guys. Well, so I want to start with,

I'm going to take you into the way back machine. And I don't know, I'm sure you remember this because it's probably a very, you know, sort of seminal moment for you. But the first time I met you, you and I were sitting in the Windsor Arena. It was your draft year. You had joined the Windsor Spitfires. And that was the first time you and I sat down and chat. And I wonder if you could just, you know, tell everybody how important that interview was.

and really sort of a pivotal moment in your career. Yeah, I don't know if it was a pivotal moment in my career, but I do remember that early stuff because you get early hype in the draft and as a young guy, it's pretty exciting to start getting your name recognized as a top player. But I remember meeting you, Scotty. I don't know if I'd call it a pivotal moment, but here we are. I'm still at it. I really wish, Jason, you had said I have no recollection of ever meeting you then.

That would have been a highlight for me. But, you know, I was thinking about you coming on our podcast this week, Jason. I was thinking about the timing of your career in hockey and how you've seen the game through so many different lens. And, you know, you come up through Jacques Marte in Ottawa, you know, during the end of the Dead Puck era. I mean, it was as defensive as the game has been almost in the history and led to a, a number of changes. That's how you came up in terms of your NHL beginnings and, you know,

with a very defensive coach that I'm sure you've learned a lot from. And then on the other side of all of it, here we are now, you know, at the later end of your career where the game has probably never been as wide open. I don't know if you agree with that. Yeah. At least in your career, I mean.

No, yeah. I'd say it's, it is an interesting curve. When I came in the league, I remember doing five on five breakout drills that started with the coach dumping the puck in and everybody locked onto each other by hooking and grabbing jerseys and you practiced it because God forbid you let a guy get through on the forecheck. You'd be shown on video the next day. So we started with locking onto each other in practice and now you get in trouble if you skate in front of the guy and get too much of a bump

on them. So the game has definitely evolved a little bit and it's a little more free pulling for sure. Jason, I got to tell you, it's been so much fun to watch the URRRs. part of this season and watching you and your role with the Maple Leafs. And we're taping this a morning after a victory over Vancouver and you're out killing penalties, you're on the power play unit. We're 12 games in. You've got eight points. And I'm wondering, I think we sometimes assume, no, when you play a long time, that maybe

nothing phases you. But I wonder if there are moments that, you know, make this feel like almost a beginning with the kind of confidence that Sheldon Keefe has shown. shown in you and what it's been like for you in these early games in this in this current season. Yeah. No, it has been a transition and probably, you know, the last couple years I've gotten a lot more comfortable with. As a player, I think you're always just looking for a role and you want to be able to be a part of something and be a control value system and kind of what a good night looks like. It's not goals and assists anymore. And, you know, I had to judge a lot on

scoring and pretty good positive momentum. And, you know, that takes a little bit of time to wrap your head around and kind of what a good night looks like. So Sheldon and the coaching staff have been really good with kind of helping me guide there. And then in turn, I've been able to chip in a little bit offensively. Well, you mentioned the Hatrick Night. Boy, that brought a lot of us back for sure. And, you know, what was the reaction like for you? What did your phone look like after that game when you turned it back on?

A lot of people, a lot of people that hadn't heard from it a lot. You know, it was kind of an odd feeling, just got to get in all those. Jason, I'm curious when you mentioned, you know, sort of, you know, re-calibrating yourself. So you say, okay, here's, you know, what is my role and what, how do I, how do I value myself or how do my teammates and my coaches value me? Can you get there yourself or did, were there people that you talk to and help you, you know, find that sort of comfort zone with, with how you were going to perform and how you were going to be judged? Or is that something that is complete self-discovery? Jason, I'm always curious how someone with your wealth of experience, you know, I think the same for Joe Thornton, Wayne Simmons. How you drop into a team like this, and for you it's your second year, so there'll be probably more comfort for you than maybe for Joe and Wayne to do this.

But how do you drop info on these young stars on your team without being overbearing? I mean, is it subtle? I mean, I guess what I'm getting at is I think of some of those great senators' teams you're on as a young player. sort of around the same age that Austin and Mitch are right now and teams that knocked out the door, not just the 07 cup final, but man, I thought 03 and I thought 06 in many ways I always look back and I feel like that might have been the deepest Senators team because Chiro was still there.

But not everyone gets to win. And I wonder if you ever in conversations with your younger teammates talk about the opportunity at hand and, you know, that it's not there forever. Yeah, I know. Jason, when you join the Leafs, though, I mean, that's a different dynamic, well, at least from the outside, it would appear to be a different dynamic because you grew up in Toronto. You're an Tobico kid, and you grew up understanding where the Leafs lived in the community and how important they are and those kinds of things.

And I wondered if your experience, you know, as Pierre mentioned, here you're in your second year, so you've got a, you know, a real sense of the whole dynamic, is it different than you thought it was going to be basically coming home to play in the NHL at this stage of your career? Or has it been what you anticipated it would be? Yeah. Talking retirement here, the way you're playing right now, we might be talking Joe Thornton-esque extension of your career. But, you know, have you put any thought into what the future might look like one day? Because I feel like when we've had chats about the game over the years, Jason, I see a lot of GM in you.

But that's not for everyone either. It's a grind to go that route post career. I mean, do you try to, do you ever picture yourself what chapter two will look like one day or you want to wait before you put too much thought into that? Jason, when we talk about making the kind of move that you did and joining the Leafs, it's not just you. It's a family commitment. And you have, if my memory serves correct, four daughters.

who must be, what, between six and 12? Am I in the right category in the age bracket? I wonder what that's been like for them and maybe for you to watch what it's like for them now to be children of a Toronto Maple Leaf in that market. Have there been things that have surprised you about that part? Are they, and I know it's school is wacky and maybe it's all remote, but in the time that you've been there,

have there been moments that have, you know, sort of reaffirmed that this really is a good space for, not just you but your family to have them experience this part of your career in your hometown. Yeah, I think that's important we'll let you go here next on tap for you guys. Havs Leifs and top two in the All-Canadian Division. You know, you're going to play them a bunch of times this year. You play them opening night. It was a pretty fun game that you guys prevailed in extra time.

But what do you think that back and forth will be like with Montreal this year? Jason, actually Pierre wrote about it this week, eloquently, as he always does. But do you get that, like in the conversations in the room and whether it's an off day or whatever? Are you guys talking about that North Division in the way that it seems all, I think all hockey fans in general, but certainly hockey fans in Canada, have been consumed by what is going on in that division. And I wonder, are you feeling that even in your room and your sort of daily life? and when you think about hockey, that that North Division is front and center and really has captured a lot of people's imagination. Yeah, I wouldn't say we talked about it at a ton.

I think early in the year we talked about just... The good thing is, Jason, no one overreacts in any of the Canadian markets or anything hockey wise, so it's all good. Everyone's level-headed every day, right? That's cool. I'm telling you, though, I wouldn't have it any layers of things. That's good stuff. Well, listen, Jason, it's been terrific to have you come and hang out. And listen, I'm glad you didn't go overboard talking about that first interview.

It was a long time ago. And, you know, we've got to keep everything in perspective, like you say, a good level head. But it's so nice to see you having such great success and enjoying your life in Toronto. And thanks for coming and hanging out with Pierre and I. It's a real treat. Scott, I appreciate you giving me my first love. Yeah, no problem, no problem. It's all good, my friend.

All right. Thanks, Jason. See you guys. Thanks, Pierre. Oh, my gosh. That was so much. friend, Pierre. And good, good for you for setting that up. Good on you. And I got to tell you, tell me whether you think I'm off line here. But, you know, listen to Jason talk about his role and

accepting and really sort of embracing, you know, what is laid out for him. I got to tell you, I was thinking a lot about what we saw in Tampa back in the day with Dave Vanderhuk, a guy who, of course, was one of the prolific scores of his generation. But late in his career, in a team full of young stars, Marty St. Louis and Brad Richards and Vinula Cavalier, he became such an important piece of what would be the first ever Stanley Cup in Tampa in 2004, killing penalties, leader, the calm voice in that room. You know, it wasn't about the stats line, as Jason Spencer was talking about, but Dave Anderchuk was huge.

In fact, if I'm not mistaken, there was a statue of Dave Anderchuk with the cup out in front of Amley Arena in Tampa. And I wonder if you get a same kind of vibe from where Jason's at in his career with the Leafs. Yeah, I think he's got so much to offer that way for sure. And, you know, you have to be ready. You know, I thought it was so interesting for him to talk about being ready to, you know, changing his value system and understanding his new role. But let's be honest, you know, and you covered the stars for a year.

You're embedded with Adela's Stars, Scotty. know, I don't know that Jason was ready for that during some of that time in Dallas. When it started to be apparent, that's where it was headed, right? And that's normal. A lot of star players aren't ready for the day when it's, you know, you look at the way Chara left Boston and now he's in Washington because I don't know that he felt he was ready to hear what the Bruins at the cell on his role. How to resigned with the Bruins, you know?

And so it's normal. I mean, you have so much confidence in yourself when you've been a really good player in this league for a long time. but clearly what's happened now since he's, you know, especially here in the second year, is that he understands what's going on in this team for himself. And I think what he has to offer is so important for,

you know, these young superstars on this team. And, you know, he's between him and Thornton and Simmons. You talk about three amazing influences in that dressing room. And what that can provide to Matthews and Marner and Nielander is immeasurable in my mind. And, you know, Leifes are lucky to have them.

And don't forget, he's playing for 700 grand, which is by NHL standards and by his standards over the years, is really about playing for the game right now for Jason Spezza. Well, you know, listen, when the real proof, of course, is going to become playoff time. And we know the Leafs struggles in, you know, having success come playoff time. But I got to tell you, I just think the narrative is there to be. written and with Jason Spetsa and Wayne Simmons and Joe Thornton, all guys who want very much to add a Stanley Cup championship to their, you know, I mean, Joe Thornton, he's a Hall of Fame guy. So, but these are players who still want very much to fill in that last checkbox on their career

resumes. And it's going to be a great story if it turns out that way. It doesn't always work, though. You pointed it out, right? Not everybody gets to win, but I got to tell you, if it happens with this Leaf team and they do go on that long-awaited playoff run, I have to believe that guys like Jason Spetsa and Joe Thornton and Wayne Simmons are going to be critical factors. And that especially given that the first two rounds are going to be played within that

North slash Canadian Division, those guys are going to be critical. And I think that's going to be part of the narrative for sure. Yeah. And how good would Habs Leaves be in a second round? Oh, my goodness. There's lots of hockey before then. They could meet in the first round, heck, if one of them stumbles here in the standings change. There's still lots to figure out, but they haven't played each other in a playoff series since 1979.

It is crazy. Yeah. Let's make it happen. All right. Good job by you with our chat with Jason Spezza. All right, my friend, that was terrific. And we are going to take a break here in a moment. And we're going to come back with our Q&A segment.

Do you have a name here? I wanted to, I suggested to Jeff Demet, our producer. I said, what about ask the dorks, but I don't know if we could get a sponsor for that, you know, the quick Q&A part. He's got written down, ask the insiders. But I'd say, ask the dorks. How do you feel about that? I've been called a lot of things, but I don't think I've ever been called the dork. But I'm good with whatever.

No, what, do you know who used to call us dorks was Joy Rousseau? Oh, Joy. Awesome boss. Or old boss, ESPN.com. She is amazing. One of the great people that I've met in this business. That's true. I just do recall that there were occasional emails like, what are you dorks doing?

You might get her in trouble with HR now. I think dork is okay. And I do know specifically when you did break a trade from the Cadillac Ranch bar just outside Bristol. I think the email was no more tweeting from the bar, you dorks. Anyway, when we do... Oh, one day I'm going to write my book. It's going to be a beauty. All right, my friend.

I like to read these questions. And this one comes from Stephen Frank, and it's an interesting one, given that we are about to head into an Olympic year in 21, 22. How would you guys feel about hockey in the summer Olympics? It is where it actually started and would solve a lot of the issues the league owners and players have with playing during the NHL season. And I love this idea because it does. Stephen Frank is exactly right. It would resolve some of the issues about shutting down the season in the middle of the NHL season to go and play in the Winter Olympics.

They did back in the day play in the summer Olympics. What do you think? Well, I don't like it because I want to be at the cottage in the summer. But, oh, wait, it's not about me. Okay, hold on. You know, this has come up in the past, and I'm trying to remember what Gary Bettman has told us in the past about this. I think basically it's the IOC that's not very keen on it, right?

Because they've already got a very charged calendar with some pretty big events in the summer games, and they view hockey as such an important event in the winter games. And they just, I think the OEC has felt over the years that would lead too much of a gaping hole. in their winter calendar. And I get that for sure. And I don't know, to be honest,

how keen the NHLPA the players would be on this. You know, and I'll tell you why, because one of the things that actually the PA has talked about in the past is that the next time there's a World Cup of hockey, the PA has always thought it'd be better in the middle of the season as opposed to in September, when the players are in, you know, rhythm-wise and an amazing game shape.

So, but it makes, listen, the pros for the argument are absolutely factual. No question about it. I mean, in terms of not disrupting the season. But certainly right now, too late to even think about Tokyo that way, that way, but maybe something to think about down the road. Good point. Yeah, I am with you on that. I think it is, yeah, so if you've got the, you know,

with the basketball and hockey is. Hockey is the centerpiece of the Winter Olympics. It just is. And with the NHL players there, as we hope we'll be the case in Beijing in 2022, it is the marquee event. So I understand that part of it, too. How about this? This is from Curtis.

What are your expectations for trade deadline, April 12th, if my memory serves? More quiet due to COVID and the unknown. What about Canadian teams? Fierre, I know you've written about this in the past. will they be interested in buying and selling if the restrictions continue to exist with the Canada-U-S. border with going north into Canada, the restrictions there? We saw that with Pierre Lueblood going to Winnipeg from Columbus. What do you think? Okay, hold on. Let me just open up my notes from the last trade deadline I covered in a pandemic. Oh, wait. No, it's a great question. And of course, the answer is no one knows. But if I have to guess,

I think it would be a bit quieter than normal. You know, the great point there about the Canadian teams. I wrote about this a couple weekends ago with the top six Canadian GMs from the top six Canadian teams all gave me a quote about their view of it. And the 14-day quarantine as it stands, and the Canadian teams have lobbied the Canadian federal government to switch it to a seven-day quarantine like they have for training camp. But if it doesn't change and it remains 14 days, it will have a pretty big impact on the trade. for the Canadian teams. I think it was Mark Bershman who said in that piece for me that by mid-March we're going to have to look

at everything. And I think what he's hinting at is if you're going to make a tangible move, you don't want to wait until April 12th if you're a Canadian team with a 14-day quarantine for that player, right? Now, if you're trading within the Canadian division, that's different. Now you're talking as long as it's a private

flight, a private charter, a 48-hour quarantine, but you know, right now, the only team that you could already announce as a seller would be Ottawa. You know, we'll see if Vancouver can turn their season around. But obviously you don't have much of a buyer's market there if you're limited to within your division, not to mention the very obvious fact of competing with these teams.

So certainly from a Canadian team perspective, the trade headline might be quite unique. But I think even for the U.S. teams, you know, between all the rescheduled games and this, I just, I don't right now, and it's early, but I don't smell the same appetite of a normal year in terms of wanting to make a lot of moves from the deadline. Again, there will be trades. Don't get me wrong. I want people to come back and say, you said there be no trades. There will be trades, but I don't think it'll be the same volume of a normal trade deadline.

I think, you know, I was talking to a team executive the other day. It feels like a lot of people are going to want to wait until the offseason to look at their finances, you know, look at the landscape, look at how Seattle affects rosters. and everything. And then I think you'll see a lot more moves in the offseason than you will at the trade deadline in my mind. Yeah. Well, and hopefully by the off season, we are back to, you know, I'm using my air quotes,

a more normal time. We will know or hopefully we'll know back on track with an 82 game schedule. And as you point out, Seattle coming is 32nd team. Right. And you think about all the teams that are in LTIR right now and just absolutely. hamstrung by the cap that didn't go up when it was supposed to go up, right? Because of the pandemic. Seattle comes in and sucks $80 million out of the system in terms of the player salary.

So that's huge. I mean, that's in itself is going to have an impact, never mind anything else. All right. One more question before we end this, whatever we call it, asking you and I questions. This is from The Good Life. And how about this? What do you think of my Panthers? and how can Anthony Duclair buy a goal from his multitude chances?

I think Anthony Duclair has been terrific. It's been fun to watch. But you're right. He is a bit snake bit. Also a question about whether Sergey Bobrowski, what does Bob need to settle down again? He was actually pretty good last night in a win. And as we speak, Pierre, Panther 7, 1 and 2.

Nice start for them. Now, it's a little bit skewed because, The schedule has been heavily weighted toward Detroit and Nashville. But nonetheless, I think Bill Zito has done a terrific job there. And Joel Quenvo in his second season there seems to be in a much more comfortable place. For a Panther team that I'm all for the first ever battle of Florida in the playoffs. That's what I'm looking forward to. Yeah, and I don't want to be kept in negative, but I do think they're going to have a bit of a come-down moment here.

The goal differential is only plus four as we tape this. So I think they've done really well at maximizing on nights when, you know, it's a 50-50 proposition. I think they've done really well coming out on top. But I think there'll be some regression there. But I think they've got a shot on making the playoffs. I think that's legit. And I am concerned that Bobrovsky has only looked okay, right? I mean, here's a guy that needs to bounce back from last year, big contract.

Hopefully the new Panthers goaltending excellence department can help them in that, right? That's great. Fine piece written by you. But I, again, I have to be honest when I'm asked these questions, I do think there's a little regression coming there for Florida. All right, my friend, good work by you. Final thoughts. I'm curious to see when you and I speak next in a week's time. Hopefully, you know, I hope that we'll.

we are sort of beyond the daily postponement of games and the machinations with the schedule. You know, at some point we have to get to that point. Do we? I mean, the NHL has been pretty quiet. I know they introduced some cosmetic changes to protocols. But, you know, at some point, doesn't the rubber have to hit the road in terms of, well, can we keep going like this? And at some point, I hope that we reach the end of this cycle. and the teams do get back to healthy play and are able to resume a schedule without interruption.

Yeah, I'm not ready to say I think we're going to reach that point. I got to be honest. I think there's more of this coming. Now the league and the PA again this week are working on more tweaks to the protocols. I think you'll see more rapid testing introduced and all those things will be important. And don't get me wrong. I think we're going to have a season. I don't think that the season is going to be halted.

But I just think we're going to have more rescheduled games here for a while, unfortunately. And, you know, I did check with the league yesterday, and they feel that they still got lots of runway in terms of windows for the schedule maker to find spots for rescheduled games. And keep in mind that, you know, that week after the regular season, they always plan to be able to use that as a buffer zone, which means you delay the playoffs by a week. So, you know, I think that,

those things are going to happen. I think you're going to see that week after the regular season's supposed to end, filled with rescheduled games eventually here, unfortunately. But trying to play a season in the pandemic, man. Where's the handbook? Well, and the interesting thing is, of course, that to, and maybe again, it's the numbers and the, the population, all those things. But, you know, North Division just say, you know, I don't want to jinx it, right?

I mean, but it's, you know, the North Division has been able to do this. and it hasn't been the same in the States. And it speaks to, you know, a problem to, you know, from coast to coast in the United States, not being able to not being able to get our arms around it. But the, you know, vaccines are out. It's getting warmer. I got to tell you, we've got to get through these next few weeks. But I do think that we are headed to brighter days.

But you know me. I'm always been a bit of a Pollyanna. And I love that about you. Good to be positive these days, brother. Great job. All right. What else we got here? Other pod issues that people should be aware of, Michael Russo, continues to celebrate the 20th anniversary of the Minnesota Wilde, welcoming NHL player agent and original Wild Forward.

I did not know that that he was original Wild Forward. To straight from the source this week at The Athletic, Kelly Rudy, such a great guy. I love Kelly Rudy from Hockey Night in Canada. You know what I really love about Kelly, Pierre, is it he's just so honest and he's just a very forthright person. Anyway, he joins Craig Custons. Yeah, joins Craig Custons this week on the full 60. Ian Mendez, Haley Salvean and Sean McIndo have the athletic hockey show Monday and Thursday. We're the meat, buddy.

You and I are the meat and they're the bread in the athletic hockey show sandwich. So you should check out their offerings on. Monday and Thursday, and you should check out our comments section for each podcast episode at The Athletic app and rate and subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on Apple. If you aren't a subscriber, and really, I'll just say this. Shame on you if you're not. Go to theathletic.com slash hockey show and receive a subscription for just $3.99 per month. Pierre, I can't wait to see what the week ahead holds.

and we will rejoin next week to talk about all things hockey. Good work by you today. Right on, right on.