The Athletic Hockey Show - Jim Nill's Central leading Dallas Stars poised to make a move ahead of trade deadline, Ryan Reynolds teams up with The Remington Group to try to buy the Ottawa Senators

Episode Date: February 15, 2023

Jim Nill, the General Manager of the Dallas Stars joins Rob, Jesse and Russo, 17 days before the NHL trade deadline to discuss the Stars season, if the trade market is heating up and what the top team in the Central division might have interest in as they prepare for a long playoff run.The roundtable discusses The Athletic's top 10 trade board, and where the likes of Kane, Toews, Chychrun, Meire, O'Reilly, Gavrikov, Klingberg, Barbashev, Bertuzzi and Dumba might end up and Ryan Reynolds selecting The Remington Group as his sugar daddy, as he continues his quest to purchase the Ottawa Senators.Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowGet a 1-year subscription to The Athletic for $2 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshowGo to http://grammarly.com/tone to download and learn more about Grammarly Premium’s advanced tone suggestionsThis episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Visit http://BetterHelp.com/nhlshow today to get 10% off your first monthTry Peloton risk-free with a 30-Day Home Trial, New Members only. Not available in remote locations. See additional terms at http://onepeloton.ca/home-trial Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is The Athletic Hockey Show. What's going on, everybody? Welcome to another edition of the Athletic Hockey Show, the Wednesday Roundtable edition. I am Rock Giesel from CBCS and Sports, joined as always by the co-hosts, Jesse Granger in Vegas and Mike Russo in Minnesota. How are we, boys?

Doing well. Great. 17 days. 17 more days of who's going to go where. So it's always a perfect time to talk to a GM. Jim Nell, general manager of the Dowell. Dallas Stars, the Western Conference leading Dallas Stars, will be joining us in the second half of the show.

I don't know how much is going to tell us, guys, but the one thing I'm always fascinated with that I want to ask Jim about is how much the trade deadline has kind of changed. It used to be, you know, 245 Eastern Time on whatever the deadline is. Trades were just swarming in, but it's a little different for guys like us now. I mean, we're more than two weeks out and things are really, really heating up. Really, when did this start? Five years ago, a little bit more. Russo, what do you think? Yeah, I mean, I agree with you. And it felt like years ago, guys like Jim Rutherford, Don Waddell, they all of a sudden tried to get a head start and a lot of other GMs at the deadline.

And then all of a sudden people started to realize, you know what, let's give them a head start. The other thing, too, is I do think some GMs are a little weary of how short the trade deadline is to the end of the season. And you hear about chemistry issues and things like that when suddenly you have take new players. in, take new players out, or all players out. And I think they want to give them almost a little more runway to try to get their footing. So then by the time that really the stretch run of the season comes and the playoffs that they go on a little bit of a tear here and feel comfortable in their new surroundings or whatever additions they bring in. The other thing I want to ask Jim Nill about is, you know, he always has this ability and desire and, you know, to make bold moves. And Dallas

is a team that you see him in the, you know, Patrick Kane rumors. And, you know, and things like that. And you just know that he's going to want to add scoring. You look at their cap situation. They really don't have that ability right now. So how do you maybe use a third party as a broker and things like that? I'd love to get his thought process on how to do that. Right. And you mentioned the salary cap. And I think that's part of the reason it's such a long runway too now is you can't wait until the last minute because there are so many math equations that have to be done. I mean, the salary cap obviously has been in effect for a while. But this recently, without it going up and contracts continuing to go up.

It seems like, like if you go on cap-friendly, pretty much every team in the league is in cap trouble. Like we're talking two-thirds of every competitive team in the entire league is pressed against the cap. So this isn't, it's not as simple as just finding a partner. Oh, you have a player we like. We have prospects you like. Boom.

It's done. No, it's we have to do a algebra to figure out if this player fits on our team and we'll bring in other teams and third teams. I think, I think that's a big reason why the, the lead up, the, the, the, the, the runway to the trade deadline has gotten so long because it's complicated to make a trade now. Yeah, I mean, back in the old days, it was teams like the Rangers, the Red Wings, they would just add and add and add and add and add and they didn't care about their salary cap situation. I remember one year, one of Jim Nill's old teams of Detroit Red Wings,

you know, they had a fourth line that was like making like $30 million. It was like Shanahan Hull and Robitai, right? I mean, it was like, you know, it's just a different world now where And especially since the pandemic where the cap just stopped growing, it really puts a lot of these teams in situations. And that's why I think those teams right now that have left themselves cap space have a lot of weapons. I mean, they could really shop that cap space around and become third party brokers, take on bad contracts and really use that to their advantage. I think it's a combination of both too, but also how many times have we heard over the last five to 10 years a trade proposal? that kind of gets leaked to the media or wherever we find out about it somehow. And then come trade deadline day, that players move for much less.

It used to be, no, I'll wait to the last minute because teams will get desperate and they'll keep throwing maybe a second, another second round pick in there or something. Now it's the other way around. It's a fear of, oh, we had a better deal on the table. We thought we'd wait for more. And now we have to settle for this. I find it's completely flip-flop. Yeah.

Well, that happened with the Kevin Fiala trade. You know, that was the summer trade. But that's what happened there is that there came a point where Bill Garan, everybody in the league knew that they had to move Kevin Fiala. And so Bill Garan did not want to wait three or four days before, before, you know, his hands were tied essentially before the draft to move. Or excuse me, it was I can't remember it was free agency or the draft to move him for the first time. So, you know, he got offered a first and favor and he made that move. And right now, obviously, Fialik is ascended to such degrees in L.A. but the wild are hoping that Brock Faber in their first-round pick,

Liam Ogren now turned into something special. But that's what happened is that, you know, it used to be, all right, I'm going to leverage all these different teams. And then it became, holy moly, I better get this done here, or the price could really actually drop down. And I think that's the one thing that the GMs that are holding the big chips have to be wary of this year is that there's not a lot of team. There's a lot of great, great players out there.

It's not like a trade deadline where we overhype a lot of players. There are good wingers out there right now. There are good centers. They're a good defenseman. When you have all those players out there and only a few teams that could even afford them, you almost have to make them move early because I think that the teams that this time are going to wait for those prices to drop are actually going to see those prices drop. And now if you trade a Patrick Cain for 40 cents on the dollar when Teresenko just went for this, now as GM you look like you dropped the ball.

For sure. And it's like you said, there are only a certain number of teams that can even afford these players. So your options are limited in. As that deadline ticks down, it's like all these players are pending UFAs. So if you don't move this guy in the next hour once you get to that day, like you're getting absolutely nothing for them. And these teams aren't competing. So it's not like you're, well, we'll just keep them for the run. Like your team's not going on a run.

You lose them for absolutely nothing. So then you have to, like you said, sell for pennies on the dollar. Let's talk about some of the players. I was looking at the athletics trade board as I do all the time. And of course, now number one on the list is Timel Weawey out of San Jose. but this guy, Jacob Chikrin, has he been on there for a while? Guys, I don't know if he's been talked about. Has there been a guy involved in trade talks longer in NHL history than Jacob Chikran?

I know. It's been over a year now. Like, come on. Yeah. And frankly, if he's not traded, it's going to continue because he has two years left on his deal. And we know that Arizona eventually wants to move him. So then it's going to be the draft and this and that.

But I think it's obvious that he's moving. I mean, we had Jeff Chichron on his dad last week. And he basically alluded to a, quote, looming trade. But right now that looming trade is not coming to fruition. When they pulled him out of the lineup against St. Louis the other day, I think we all thought that it was imminent and that it was going to the L.A. Kings. And they just weren't doing it because then Dustin Brown night and then Super Bowl and they were going to wait till Monday and all that stuff. And obviously that's come and gone. Then he's pulled out of the national game.

I texted Jeff Chikrin. Chickren actually flew to Nashville to hang out with his son. I joked with him that they were going to be watching that Predators, Coyote's game from Tutsis. And, but like, look, I mean, this is the situation they in. And I think what happened here is that now, I think because all these other teams that have suddenly or have had long interest in Jacob Chikrin sees him out of the lineup and got concerned that that L.A. was the team that was going to pounce. Now I bet you there's other teams that have come back into the fray here. So I think that this has become almost a new thing from an asset management standpoint, you know, to make sure that you don't get guys hurt is to actually, you know, before it was like you pull him from. the lineup because there was that pending trade. It was about to happen. Now I think teams are getting weary, especially after what happened with Tarasenko and O'Reilly getting hurt, is pull them now, try to now create that frenzy again, and hopefully you can move them. And it's going to be really interesting now. I bet you Arizona went from having one or two teams talking to on a daily basis to now

those four or five or six teams have legitimate interest in Jacob Chikrin coming back into the conversation. I think you'd hit it right on the head, Russo. It's a ploy to, to, to, to you know, it's like that when you're buying a car and they say, well, I've got someone else who's interested. They're coming in. You know what I mean? And we're seeing new hockey terms like scratch for trade related reasons. Right? Look, I don't ever remember hearing trade related reasons. They are putting it out there in bold lights. Guys, this could happen. So if you were one of the guys who were playing hardball, give us a call. It was like the first time I ever heard lower upper body injury. I was kind of like, where did this come from? But yeah, we're actually inventing

ways. It used to just happen. And like Russo said, it would happen. And hours later, there'd be a press release that so-and-so was traded. This chikrin thing got a little nuts because now they basically said, he ain't putting on skates until it's with another team. And whether it was to stoke the fire, whether it's because they don't want him to get hurt, whether it's a combination of both, it's made this this a little more interesting. Anyone else on this list that you're really kind of, you've got circled like, where is this guy going?

Because for me, obviously Patrick Kane's a big name on the list. And ever since the Tarasenko trade, which he actively came out and said, quote, it's not the happiest I've been to hear about a trade because he wanted to go to the Rangers and that pretty much axed it.

Anybody on this list that really is a flashing light for you, hey, I can't wait to see where this guy goes. Jesse. Yeah, I mean, Timo Meyer, just because I think a lot of these guys are obviously aging, like, on the down swing of their career. And, like, they still have enough to add to a team for whether it's a rental or just, if they're going to sign them long term,

I think they can add to a contender right now. But I think Timom Meyer is a piece that you can build around going forward, similar to Chickren. And I also think that Bertuzi is an underrated guy. Like, I think he's still young enough to be a guy to kind of build around. I've mentioned him quite a bit. I think Vegas should be interested. I don't know if they are, but I think Bertuzi, Meyer, and and Chikrin are the players that I'm most fascinated with just because I don't think they're a one year. Let's see if this guy can help us on a run right here.

I think they're going to be wherever they go. They're going to be a big part of that team moving forward over the next few years. Yeah. Interesting. Sorry. Go ahead. Oh, no. I'll take to answer your question, Rob.

You know, what I'll do is actually I'll take the team perspective. I'm mostly interested to see what teams like the Devils and the Dallas start. and the Carolina hurricanes do because this is a year where I do think the cup is wide open. And I think the same number of teams are looking for the same players. So I think buyer is going to be somebody that Carolina and New Jersey are both looking at and then we'll see the trickle down effect from there. But, you know, Kane is just another one. Like Kane controls everything here. But I think that he realized right away, I better make a decision because he did want to go to the Rangers.

We've all known that. And, you know, because he didn't make that decision yet, the Rangers. said, you know what, we can't wait any longer. And I think that is now, now it takes, you know, this is a guy that's lived in, you know, in Chicago. He made his NHL debut in 2007, if I remember correctly. He's been there now for 16 years, which is shocking, scary to think about. He's not just going to go anywhere to any playoff contender.

It's going to have to be a place where he really is going to feel comfortable and that he feels like he can win a cup and all that stuff to make this move for basically two months. or he'll just go sign wherever in a free agent and stay in his incredible apartment at, you know, a Trump Tower there. So I think that that's the thing right now is I want to see who could have, who could, there's a lot of teams at Juan Cain. There's not a lot of teams that could afford them, even with salary retention. So do they get other third parties involved?

It's just going to be fascinating to see what happens with them. It's interesting because, you know, we talked about this a couple weeks ago with the Horvatt deal about whether or not, usually when you trade for a quote unquote rental player with the plans of trying to resign him, you kind of use these two months to say, hey, check it out. This is a great place to play. We're a contending team. Whereas we're seeing that resigning period happen a lot sooner. And I think that's the case with Meyer because according to a lot of reports, teams have

not been given permission to talk to Claude Lemieux, his agent. Now, whether or not that's going to come into play, some teams don't want to sign a player with the risk of losing a couple months later in free agency. They want to be able to say, hey, we're going to trade for you. sign this extension or whether teams just don't care. They just need him for that stretch run. Timel Meyer, like Jesse said, is not your prototypical rental player. He's the guy who you want as a part of your cornerstone for years.

And I'm wondering how much that comes into play where, you know what, we can't be assured that he's going to at least consider resigning. Well, then we can't give up assets for him. Yeah, especially with a $10 million qualifying offer. Yeah. He's RFA, not UFA. So if you're trading for him and you want him to be part of your future, you need to have those conversations now to be like, all right, remember, we're not giving you that $10 million qualifying offer. We're going to try to work out a long-term deal now, you know, to extend you at a much lower AAV.

And so it really determines your asset price. Is he a rental or is he not a rental? And that is why I think at some point, I think my career is going to have to give permission for our teams to talk to Cloleum. I would bet that if Myers traded before the deadline, if you were to bet one way or the other, I would bet he signs an extension with whatever team trades for him before he touches the ice, similar to Horvett. I mean, the Golden Knights have done it here in Vegas. Two of their biggest trades, Ikel obviously had term left, but the other two big ones were Max Petcheretti and Mark Stone,

and they were both penning free agents, and that was a big reason why they were moved to Vegas, and neither of them touched the ice for the Golden Knights before signing. long extensions. Patrick Reddy's was four. Stones was the max. And he, he was traded to Vegas and signed the max deal right away. And that was negotiated before the trade. I think that's just kind of how things are now. There isn't the, like you said, the swooning period. Let's try to convince this guy he wants to come. It's like, no, no, no, no, we're not giving up all these assets for a guy just to hope we can convince him to sign here. Like, we need deals worked out before we pay this price for this player. But that's what I mean. They're standing in the way of that. If you're

not able to talk to his agent. Yeah, it seems ridiculous. You got to be able to talk to his agent. What that tells me is San Jose doesn't want to trade him. I think San Jose still wants to re-sign him. I think they're hoping this deadline. I'm not convinced he's going to get traded. I think that they are hoping he will eventually sign a deal that they're trying to work out with

him because if you really wanted to move him, if you were dead set on, okay, we can't come to an agreement with this player. Let's just trade him. Wouldn't you want his agent to be talking to us? Sure. Because that's going to bring more teams into the market. it's going to get you better offers, you would think. I mean, to me, when I hear they're not letting teams talk to his agent,

that tells me the sharks still don't want to trade him. Yeah, I do think that there's some strategy, though, too, is that the longer you wait, you know, if all of a sudden you let him talk to six teams and he makes a deal with that team and that team's not offering nearly as good at packages that other team, now it puts you in a position. I remember America's licky. He had a no trade clause and he basically said, I'm only going in one team. And the wild got a bunch of crap firm, essentially, with all.

do respect to some of the people that were in that trade. I might have had an, that I might have had on podcast before. But anyway, but you didn't get fair market value. That's how you're supposed to say it on a podcast. Jeff, Jeff, you take the word crap right out of that. Yeah,

so Jeff's got some work to do when we're done. Real quick, before we get off trade talk, 10 second answer, is Eric Carlson going to be in Edminton Euler by the time March 3rd rolls around? Russo, you're smiling. I think 10 seconds are almost up let's go yeah I think he will be I think the only way is like Edmonton wants him but Edmonton's going to have to figure out a way to really massage the cap and

the way to do that is to find a third party that's going to help the problem is it's you know you got give up a lot of assets for that so I don't know I think he's going to still be there my answer is no you will not be an Edmonton oiler but man do I hope I'm wrong um The first player in a million years to score 150 points and the first defenseman in a million years to score 100 points on the same team, sign me up. I don't think it's possible, but man, I hope I'm wrong. Can I ask you guys both a Norris question? What's your philosophy on Eric Carlson being a Norris? We know how great season he's having, but San Jose is not making the playoffs or flounder to the bottom.

The old age-old question is, can you win the heart if you don't make the playoffs? Can you win the Norris when you're on a team this bad when you have Rasmus Delein that is maybe going to get Buffalo into the playoffs? You have Josh Morrissey, who I watched last night that is freaking unbelievable. I watch Heiskin last night. Unbelievable. Like, where's your philosophy on this? I don't care. I do not care if his team's any good.

He's the best defenseman in the league right now, 109 points. I'm with Jesse. I'm with Jesse on this. And the reason is it's not, I don't think you could ever give the heart trophy to something. who doesn't make the playoffs because it is the most valuable to his team. If it was just a flat out best player in hockey, yes, you can. But the question is, the Norse trophy is who is the best defenseman? Tell me a team that wouldn't take Eric Carlson's year and put them on their roster at any point this year.

And it's not just points. I know people will argue points all the time because it's not the best offensive defenseman. That's not what the award is. but you watch him play and he has just found his groove again. Like he is just, he is Eric Carlson of old. And like Jesse said, him in an Oilers jersey. And I think it financially is going to be really, really tough for them to do it. But I think Ken Holland's going to do everything in his power because you can't tell me that the clock doesn't strike midnight on this Edmonton-Oiler team if they don't do something really, really, really significant this year.

So this is it. Like, this is, this is it for them. A couple of quick things before we go to break and get to Jim Nell. If you remember, guys, on the Tonight Show, Ryan Reynolds said for him to be a part owner of the Ottawa senators, he would need to find a, quote, sugar daddy. Looks like he might have found his sugar daddy. You like how it changed my voice there when I said it to. According to reports, he's teamed up with a group out of Vaughn, Ontario.

That's a real estate developer, the Remington group. They're putting together a bid to buy the senators and build. a new downtown arena. We've heard from Gary Batman many times. They said, whoever buys this thing, you ain't moving. You're in Ottawa. You're staying in Ottawa. And I just want to bring this up again.

Remember that report that came out from Sportico, $655 billion. That's what they valued the Ottawa senators at. I can't wait for Ryan Reynolds to be an owner in this league. I think it's going to happen. Your thoughts on this, Jesse. Yeah, my initial thought was I was not super pumped that he had teamed up with a with a group because we've, I mean, we just heard from Gary Bettman, Mike and I were in Florida, and he said, there's 15 groups trying to buy this team. I was hoping Reynolds would just stay out of it

and then whatever of the groups won the bid, he would then jump on, right? Like, like, wait until you see who wins and then jump on because now, say he's with this team, say another group wins, we don't get Ryan Reynolds as the owner. So like, that was my initial reaction was I would have rather him just waited on the sideline until the team had gotten the bid. But having said that, This bid sounds awesome. I mean, the biggest problem with the senators right now is the location of the arena. You get that downtown. You get Ryan Reynolds.

We all win. It sounds like a great plan. I hope it goes through. Yeah. And my initial thought was that Remington group must be what's going to be the winner. Right. You know, I think this league and the centers are going to want Ryan Reynolds part of this group. And my gut says that there's some sort of knowledge here that this is the group that's going to be.

It's very clear when we had Bill Daly. on our podcast a month or two ago, and he had basically confirmed for the first time that the league had actually met with Ryan Reynolds. That, you know, just the way that he talked about him, I just think that Ryan Reynolds is somebody that this league wants to make sure is a face of this league. I mean, to have a celebrity like him be entrenched

in the ownership of an organization that has been, you know, really maligned for years and years and years, but could be such an important organization to the 32. in this league. I just think that it seems to be tailor-made. So I think it's awesome other than the absolute nauseous feeling I got when Robert Pizzo said sugar daddy six times. Sugar daddy. Yeah, and not and not just, but not just a celebrity too, guys, let's not forget, a very active celebrity, someone who's active, you know, on social media, active, just, you know, at being a celebrity. Like, he is a professional. He's not someone who just makes movies and then hides.

I think he would be just so, so good for this league. One more thing before we go to break, as I'm sure hockey fans know, Alexander Ovechkin has been away from the Washington Capitals for what the team was calling personal reasons. They did announce this morning the family that his father, Mikhail, has passed away. So before we go to break, we just want to say on behalf of us here at the Athletic Hockey Show, our condolences to the Ovechkin family.

Hope to see you back soon. After the break, the general manager of the Dallas Stars, Jim Nell. Okay, guys, 17 days away from the NHL trade deadline, and you'll take a look at the standings right now, the Dallas Stars alone atop the Western Conference. So you've got a lot of fans wondering just how much tweaking they're going to do before March 3rd. One guy knows.

I don't know how much he's going to tell us, but we're going to ask him, Jim Nell, the general manager of the Dallas Stars, joining us on the show. How are you, Jim? Thanks for doing this. Yeah, I'm great guys, and it's a pleasure to be on your show. Thank you very much. Before we get asking you questions that you may or may not answer, I got to ask you

about just the trade deadline, how it's kind of changed over the years. I mean, if we were doing this show five, 10 years ago, I don't know if we're talking to you about this 17 days before. It seemed like GMs always wanted to wait until the very last minute and trade deadline day was just madness. But that really has changed. We see Blockbuster deals a couple weeks out. how much busier are you two weeks out from this deadline than say five or ten years ago?

Yeah, it's, you know, that's a great question because, you know, why is that? I guess, you know, it's a question, what's the answer for it? And I think it's a lot of it, you know, we talk about the flat cap. That's always an issue with people always talk about that. But I think what it is, it's the parity. And it's the, you know, who's in it, who's out of it. It shifts week by week. I think two weeks ago here to talk to me.

me, he would have, I would have gave you a different list of names that are going to be sellers and are going to be buyers and now it's vice versa. And it's, uh, you know, the parity in our league. And I know people like, we all talk about parity, but it's there. You know, I was talking to our coaches last night after the game and we're watching other games after our game. And every game is two, two, three two, four three. Like, we are, we are in the, we're in the playoff mode now where everybody is. You know, you've got a, you got four or five teams on each. conference that are in a battle trying to get into the playoffs. You got ourselves, you know, you mentioned earlier that we're comfortably in first place.

I don't know how to take away the comfort, comfort part of the word of the sentence, I guess, because, you know, we're only two points up and we're yet, you know, five or six teams that are six to eight teams behind us, but with two games at hand. So it's tight everywhere. And so that's where there's a different dynamics to the trade. You know, you think some teams are going to be in it right away. all of a sudden they got out of it, but now they're back in it. And so just a different dynamics to the trade deadline field, I guess, out there. Jim, you know, you've, I mean,

it's been an unbelievable year. I just, every time the wild play, Dallas, it's usually one-sided on your end. So I haven't seen too many weaknesses with your team. When you have a guy like Jamie Ben playing, you know, with a young kid like Wyatt Johnson on the third line, and you pretty much know how deep you are. Last night I'm watching Highskin, and you obviously have the goalie and Otager. Where do you look right now and identify your needs? And you mentioned the cap.

I mean, you're one team that's, you know, pretty close to the cap. So how do you maneuver if you have to go address those needs? Yeah. You know, I think if you talk to most people, everyone wants to have scoring. You know, would you like to add another score. Yes, we all would. You know, I talked about how tight the games. Everybody liked to add some more scoring,

but that's easier said than done. My biggest, I guess, need and it's something that I hope doesn't happen is you just want to make sure you've got enough players available. We know what the grind of the NHL playoffs is. You know, it's a two-month grind of playing every second night and, you know, blocking shots or anything else. The biggest worry, I guess, for me, is injuries. You know, I like our team. Yes, would you like to get better? you'd like to add another scoring forward, maybe another depth defenseman here or there.

I think every team would like to do that. But the one thing that changes, and that gets back maybe a little bit, the prior question is, you know, when do you make these trades? You know, I can go make a trade today or tomorrow and all of a sudden, you know, we're 17 days out. And with three games before the deadline, three days before the deadline, I get two or three injuries. I already used my assets up and my money, my cap room to address something that I need a different need now. So that's the balancing act. You know, we're always trying to get better. You guys all know it's a competitive league. We're all trying to get better, trying to keep up

to the opposition. So would I like to add yes, but I also want to be considerate what's the cost, what's the assets? You know, job as a general manager to be, is to worry about today, tomorrow, and then the future. So I really got to balance that and be careful. And what it sikes me about our team and a kind of organization right now, we're in a pretty good spot. We've got a real good team down the miners. I got good depth down there.

So I think I got enough depth if I do get a couple of injuries. So just try to balance all those things together with the unknown of still 17 days out. Jim, Michael, you mentioned Jamie Ben and kind of what his role has been. How impressed are you with how he's been able to kind of reinvent his game? I mean, he's gone from being one of the best scores in the NHL to almost a defensive guy over a little stretch of time. And now he's taking a young player under his wing. And it just feels like even though he may not be the star on this team or the highest score, he's such an important part of this team. How impressed with how are with you are?

Yeah, sorry, how impressed are you with how he's reinvented himself? Well, I'm very, very happy for Jeannie. He's a consummate pro. He's our leader. He's our captain. He's a little bit of unicorn in the league. There's not a lot of guys left like him. You know, when you talk the ultimate power forward,

and when you talk power forward, it's somebody that can play any type of game physically, any type of physical type of game. Plus, they have to be able to chip in and score a little bit. And he is that guy. And yes, you know, for two or three, three years, you know, he kind of got off of that a little bit. Now, a lot of injuries, the way he plays, there's going to be a lot of injuries, things happen. But that's where I give

him a lot of credit. He changed his training this summer. And he's come into camp. You know, he's still the concept of pro he is, but between changing his training, and I think a little resurgence of who he's playing with, you know, we matched him up with Wyatt Johnson and tied to Landria. I think that kind of rejuvenated him a little bit. He's kind of their big brother. He enjoys that role. And, you know, he's got some other good players around him. I think it's just all come together for him. But it's a compliment to him. He adjusted his game, changed his training, got a little bit quicker, got a little bit lighter, and it's paid off for him. Jim, three words we hear a lot over the next couple weeks, no movement clause. Being a GM, as you can attest to, was difficult

enough. And Patrick Kane, I'm looking in your direction. You know, we hear it all the time where it's up to the player. And yes, they have earned it. But how difficult is that as a general manager when you're trying to make a deal? You're trying to improve your team. You come up with a deal. You've got something with another GM.

And it's all up to does player X want to come to your team? I mean, that's just got to handcuff you at so many times. It does handcuff you, but I'm going to kind of repeat what you said, that they have earned that right too. You know, we negotiate those contracts. They earn those rights. That comes into play a lot of times. We negotiating the value of the contract.

So it's part of the business. We deal with it. I think a lot of times, though, when you really do sit down with a player and as representatives and if there's a deal there, I would say 90% of the time, the players are going to want to end up going. You know, they know if it's time. There's a reason they're probably on the market. And they're probably going to a better situation.

You know, they're on a team that, you know, is rebuilding whatever is going on. Or they're not playing much, whatever the circumstances are. So usually they know it's probably kind of time to leave. And so in the end, if you're the right situation for them, I think they're going to look at coming to your team. Yeah, I don't think anybody is going to need to have their arms twisted to come to Dallas is here. That is for sure. Jim, let me ask you on another facet of, you know, things that we really didn't hear about 10 years ago, even when the cap came in, was using third parties as a banker, finding landing spots for bad contracts.

How much of that brokering now happens? As a general manager that has limited cap space that might want to make moves, do you already know who the bankers are right now? And I mean, is it like that where you're now shopping to find the best prices, the best loan prices, the best interest rates, all that type of stuff? And where did that evolution begin? And how tough is it to sometimes as a GM wrap your head around all that? Yeah, you know, a lot of this is really, it's been compounded because of our flat cap, you know, and we, it's a good thing. We kind of forget three years ago where we're at with the whole world, you know, with COVID and everything else. And to see where we've come out of it, it's been actually, it's, we'll probably head of where I thought we'd all be.

And I'm not just talking hockey, I think the whole world, you know, to think we were at two years ago and trying to figure things out. And this is really, this is just part of the process now. We've been a flat cap. You know, we all have to make decisions signing players. Part of that now is if we want to make trades, there is limited resources cap-wise financially, so you do have to get other parties involved. And, you know, we've sat down in our meetings. We've gone through all different scenarios if we want ex-player with our cap situation as it stands today,

how are we going to fit that in. Do we have a rough idea who the teams are? Yes, through my conversations with teams, teams will bring up whether that, hey, we're in a situation that if you need something, you need to move some money, some cap room, you know, we're open to business. Now there is a cost to doing that also, which comes into play. And I think one thing people need to realize, too, it's okay to do it on a, when you have a contract, it's the last year of a contract.

It's a lot easier to do it. You know, there's going to be two months left in the season. You know, so you're down to, you know, really 50 to 60 games of payroll left. So that brings a number down. Much harder to do if you start talking two, three, four, five, six years on a contract. That's a different story. You start having to carry a $2 million cap hit on a retention for the next two, three, four years.

That's a whole different ball game. And that's hard to do. Jim, you mentioned the strain that the flat cap has put on teams. We've heard some other GMs say that the, they, not that they necessarily like it, but that they kind of enjoy the fact that it magnifies the importance of how and of your job. And the better general managers can get around it. It kind of magnifies how good you are at the job. Do you like it as a challenge? No, I do. Our job is to manage this, you know, you're presented with, you know, players have to

play within certain rules. There's penalties if you don't play a certain way, you can't hook. You know, there's, it's all in life. You know, we got a foundation. We got a work around. and it's no different for us. We have a flat cap. We know what it is and we have to deal with it. And I think that's the fascinating part of the challenge. And I think something, you know, I was just talking yesterday in my staff, you know, there's talk about moving forward that the cap is going to go up.

You know, it's going to go up $5 million, $6 million, whatever in the next two, three years. That's okay, but I think we forget sometimes that, when you talk about the high-end players, the start players in the league, they're, you know, everybody's talking about how they're going to jump up in salary. Well, that extra $5, $6 million is really going to go to the star players. So we're still going to have to manage our cap with the rest of our roster. You know, we're a 20-man, 23-man roster, whatever you manage it. So when you've got a young player that goes to making $1 million to make an $8 or $9, $10 million,

you've got to find $8 million somewhere. You've still got to manage that cap. And you still have to find what's unique about our sport, a little bit different than the basketballs and some of these, you know, maybe baseball a little bit. we're a team sport where we're 20 players on the ice and you got to have depth you got to play well you can have two or three start players but if you get if all your money's gone to them and you haven't managed to put a roster together that could win that's the toughest part and so yes it's it's made a challenging the flat cap but i still think moving forward we're going to be

the same situations it's just you know player x who's a star player that's been making six million dollar is going to jump to $12 million. There's our jump in our cap. Can it be- how do we manage the rest of it? Sorry, Joe, I was just going to say, could it be a little frustrating, though? Everything you just said, given the era we're in where it's so easy for people like us or fans to know exactly the cap situations.

I mean, you're a couple of keystrokes away from finding out exactly where everybody is against the cap, who's on what kind of contracts, and you're the guy who's got to pull off all the moves. It's a little frustrating at times that everyone's got that information? Well, I think it's great. I think it's great that the fans, you know, you guys can know that here's the situations. And it helps you understand when we have to make certain moves that here's the hurdles we have to deal with. And it's everybody's chance to put that GM cap on and say, ooh, it sounds like it's easy.

But all of a sudden you say, okay, but we got to do this and this and this. And, you know, it opens up the textbook to make everybody realize how tough it is. But it's good. Like I said, that's our job. That's what we're here for. We've got other, we've got people in our front offices that manage all this. And that's a unique part of a, about our sports and a cap system. And so, so, no, it's where it's worked well.

Our league's never been more competitive. And like I said, we've been watching, you know, watching games the last two weeks. Every game is a playoff game every night. Jim, you know, obviously we've seen how good of years guys like Rope Hintz and Jason Robertson has had, you know, high skin and last night was, I thought, outstanding. I wanted to ask you about one player that has been under the radar this year, and that's Goryonoff. You know, obviously kind of a slow start to start the year, hasn't had a lot of production. But lately I watch him every single night.

And I don't know if I've seen too many players that skate like him. What is his future right now? Because, you know, young guy, last year of a deal that's pretty high cap hit, Arb Wrights. What do you do with him right now? Well, he's kind of, you know, he's one of the players that we talk about adding scoring. And it's been a tough year for him. He's only got two goals. He had a tough situation.

He had to leave the team for a while because of family situation, so he missed some time there. And so it's just been a tough year for him. He's a goal scorer. And when goals scores don't score, they get frustrated and that's what he's been through. But you are right watching our games, the last three or four games, he's been, he looks like himself again. He's exploded out of the shoot.

His speed is, he's as fast as him in the league. And he's been a little bit snake, but he's had a ton of chances. and they're just not going in. And, you know, he's one of the, you know, when you look for solutions, he's one of our solutions. And so we're just hoping he starts to grab it. And if he does, I think we're in a real good position

and it gives us a lot of different options. But like I said, it's been a tough year for him. And players go through this. They're human beings too. And you just try to push the right buttons. You work with them. And you hope that somewhere down the road, let's hope in the playoffs,

that he's a guy that makes a difference for us. That's what you're, that's what you're trying to achieve. Jim, I can't let you go without asking about Jay Cottinger. So, go, you're all waiting for. It's so fascinating. 16 minutes. It took you 16 minutes to ask about it on, Jeter. The goalie position, it's obviously so important, but also some are hesitant to use first round picks on goalies because they're so hard to project. I'd like to ask you, like, What went into deciding to invest a first round pick and a goalie? And obviously how happy are you now that you've got a 24-year-old, really big, talented goalie that looks like he can be your franchise goalie for a while?

Yeah, sorry, Jesse, but my time's up, so I can't answer it. Yeah, no, he, you know, we were fortunate as an organization. I was, I saw Jake play a lot under 18, team, under 17 team. So we saw them lots. And that was the draft. We had three pretty high picks. We moved up that year. Sometimes you got to be a little bit lucky.

We moved up for nine to four or nine to three, sorry, and got Meryl Haskin that year. And we made a trade with Anaheim for Patty Eves. And the conditions of that was it was a second round pick that became a first. If they had success in the playoffs, and they did. So we had that extra first. And then because of the lottery, we had Jason Robertson sitting there high in the second round.

So it was a big draft for us. And, you know, we were sitting there. We just had to, we'd come through the Kerry Lenton years and Ben Bishop, but I knew Ben was, you know, he was starting to age out a little bit. So we were looking for a goalie. And just, you know, between our scouting staff, doing a great job, having a good feel for Jake. We just thought there was something special there.

So we, we had that. late first round pick. We actually moved up a couple of picks in that draft to get him because I was getting a little bit worried that there were some other teams, I think, thinking the way we were. So we got him and he's been everything more and better than we could ever wish for. He's, you know, not only he's a good goalie, great athlete, but he's a great person. And I keep telling people, I think the real successful goalies are guys that the team wants to play for. And the team loves to play for Jake Odinger. They respect him as a person.

the way he treats people, he's involved in the community, and then he's a hard worker. We've had to actually kind of kick him off the ice at times. He doesn't want to come off the ice. He always wants to, you know, we'll have a back-to-back, and he still wants to come to the skate in the morning on a back-to-back when he's playing again,

and we've got to try to manage his ice time better, but that's a good problem. But easier to take it away than to give it type of thing and push for it. So he's been a great addition for us, and I still think there's still more there. he's still, I think he's got another level to go to, and we're just fortunate to have him. Jim, quickly stepping aside from the stars for a second. I got to ask you about this.

It's been a topic on our show the entire season. It hit the heights a little bit at the All-Star break. Would Sidney Crosby wait in on this as well? Playoff format. The three of us are in favor of one versus eight. I know Sidney Crosby's in favor of one versus eight. The commissioner kind of said it's not as easy as you think. as a general manager, if you were able to take a choice, would you stick with the divisional

playoffs to go to a 1 versus 8? Yeah, I'm going to, I'm not being political here, but the commissioner is correct. There's different issues. I love it if I know that we're playing somebody that's an hour and a half flight away, and then I wouldn't like it. You know, we, I was a long time in Detroit, and we were in the Western Conference, many, many years. And it's no different than down here in Dallas. And Dallas used to be in the Pacific Division.

And I don't know how many times in Detroit, we would end up playing Vancouver, San Jose or L.A. in the first or second round. And you start adding in the time zone change in the travel. It's tough. It is hard. And it's hard on your fans. You start having games at 10 o'clock at night, playoff fans.

So there's not only a hockey side, hockey operation side, There's a business side to a two. And I think divisional rivals are important. I think it's real important. But also, to get back to your, while you guys like it, one of the reasons I like it is it's nice to get to reward the first and second place teams. They've had a great year. They've played well.

What's the advantage to that? And is that playing the seventh or eighth place team? Probably is a little bit advantage, but I don't know there's as much an advantage as we think there is anymore. You know, it's a little different from 10, 15 years ago when the first place had 30 more points than the eighth place team. Now we're looking at first to eighth place a lot of times is maybe three or four wins. Like it's hard to believe. I always tell my team at the start of the year, you know, as we start out, get a good start because in the end, the difference between making the playoffs and not making the playoffs is one win a month. That's all it is.

So it's one extra win a month. If you have one extra win a month, that's five or six wins. That's 10 points. and that's the difference between making it or not making it and maybe the difference from being eighth place or first place. That's how fine of a line it is. It is. So, you know, so I like the one versus eight, but I also have lived the scenario where

with travel and time changing that, it can be a real grind. I know the one year, I think Nashville might have won the, I don't think they won the conference that year, but they ended up playing Anaheim in the playoffs. They had to play Anaheim, and then the next year he's had to play San Jose. well, by the time you get to that third round, you're done. The travel's caught up to you and it really can swish this kind of swing series and stuff. So it's, yes, I agree with a lot of it, but there is other ramifications that go with it also. Jim, last I just wanted to ask you, like, how often you mentioned Detroit, I mean, how often do you sit back and think about what a career you've had in hockey?

You know, great player, you know, you think about your blueprint on that, on those 20 years with the Red Wings and the dynasty created and the insane amount of players found and drafted and all that. And then 10 years now in Dallas, Stanley Cup final three years ago. How often do you sit back and think, man, what a career? And, you know, what are you most proud of right now in your career? Yeah, you know, I've been very blessed.

I was very fortunate to get to, you know, get to Detroit. You know, I played there. And Jimmy Devilano gave me an opportunity to go down. actually to get into coaching and got into coaching. I love coaching. Really, really coaching, I think for any hockey, but personally been in hockey, coaching other than playing coaching is the next best thing. The only thing is, it's a tough business too.

It's a tough racket. And, you know, I was a fourth-line player as a player and moved around a lot. And all of a sudden had a young family. And I got to the point where I said, can I keep doing this to my family? Can I keep moving every three, four years? It's not easy on the kids and the wife and everything. else. So it was fortunate. Jimmy D. gave me an opportunity, got an opportunity to get in the management side a little bit.

And I got to learn from Jimmy Devalano, Scotty Bowman, Ken Holland. I was very fortunate. And I always tell people, I look back, I had opportunities to go other places earlier in my career. And probably somebody was looking out after me because of probably it would have gone. It would have been a short stay. And you know, we talk about experience and living through things in life. You can't replace that. And all of a sudden, when you do get in the big chair, if you haven't had that, this game can eat you up pretty quick.

You know, I've been fortunate to live through different situations, good and bad, that you have to go through in life. You learn from the bad things that makes you stronger. And I've been lucky to be with a lot of successful situations. So I've been very fortunate that way, great people.

In the end, I always tell people, it's all about relationships and people. You, the thing that I get most proud of and what I want to keep going is when I get phone calls, some other teams asking to interview the people that are working for you. I think that that's when you know you've done the right thing. That's when you know what, they believe in what we're doing.

They believe we've got the right people in place. And I know that now I've hired the right people. And that's where that's the biggest thing as an organization, I think, where I want to get to and want to continue to keep going type of thing. Yeah, until this past summer, I bet you never had a PR guy become an assistant GM. Holy, Moly. No. Well, you guys know Tom Holy. Him and his staff here, they've been one of the best and got the call from Mike Greer that he wanted to talk to Tom.

And great move by Mike Greer. Tom, he's a great man. And he's going through what I went through. He got an opportunity to get into management. Now he's here he is. He's sown his oats and away he goes. And there's some great stories out there about people that have worked their way up. I've got one.

I had Ryan Martin in Detroit was a great example. We came into the salary cap world. We've been out scouting, Kenny and I. And we met this young man named Ryan Martin. He's working for an agent doing things. And all of a sudden, the salary cap world came in. And we needed a capologist. We remembered this young kid we met that was getting his lawyer and accounting degree.

And Bing, Bang, Boom. We hire him. Now he's assistant GM in. with New York Rangers. Tom Hoy, another great example. I've got Mark Jenko here who's wearing every hat in the organization. I came in and never knew who Mark Jenko was.

And my first implication was I'm going to have to clean house here in Dallas. But I said, you know what, let's get people a chance. I sat down and watched. And Mark Jenko now is my assistant GM and Scott White's my assistant GM. So there's great examples for young people. You know what? You don't have to take the traditional route. Just get in there, start paying your dues and have an open mind to different opportunities.

Yeah. Brent Flair, the assistant GM with the Philadelphia Flyers, he was a sales accountant with the Florida Panthers in like the mid-90s where Brian Murray just started hearing this guy with great ideas. And then next thing you know, Chuck Fletcher and Brian Murray interview him and they put him right in hockey ops. It's crazy. Hockeyoffs, yeah. So there's great stories. And like I say, you don't want to get too philosophically here, but it's a great example.

for younger people that. Everybody wants to go from getting your college degree and then become the president or seal of a company. No, there's a sorry, but God's got a different path for you. And just make sure you're open-minded to that path and kind of follow it and put your head down, work away. Well, clearly something's working because your 10-year anniversary is coming up for the Dallas Stars

and you're sitting in first place in the Western Conference. So I wouldn't argue against anything you just said. Jim, thanks so much for coming on. Congrats so far in a great season. and hopefully we'll talk to you a little later on during the playoffs when you got your team on a run and not traveling back and forth all over the play. Sounds good. Well, thank you guys.

Thanks, Jim. See you have me on. See you Friday, Jim. Yeah, we'll see you Friday. That's right. Take care. Bye-bye. Jim Nell, the general manager of the Dallas stars.

Rapid Fire is next. All right, boys, my favorite time of the show and yours, Rapid Fire. And yeah, we'll start with Jesse on this one because it's a goalie. and we're going to talk about goalies 27 times a show. Phoenix Copley. And because I don't know the definition of rapid fire. Yeah, you absolutely do not. Phoenix Copley has, believe it or not,

has more wins than any goaltender since making his debut on December the 6th. Well, he's getting paid for it now. The King signed him to an extension. One year, $1.5 million after, well, Kyle Peterson and Jonathan Quick really struggled. He took his opportunity and ran with it. Yeah. And I like that from the King's perspective, it's a short-term deal because we know how this works out when a goalie comes in right off the bat has a lot of success.

We know that sometimes it's not the most long-lasting, the most consistent success. I'm just so impressed with the Kings how they draft and develop goalies. It seems like their program in terms of their drafting of goalies, their analyzing of scouts, and prospects and the way they develop them once they get them in the system is as good, if not better than anyone in the league. It seems like they just churned them out goalie after goalie after goalie. And obviously Jonathan Quicks been there a long time, but how many guys have been Jonathan quick's backup and gotten moved to another team and are a starter there?

It's so impressive. So I like it for Copley getting paid, but I also like it for the Kings just doing the one-year deal because you know there's a goalie right behind him that they're going to churn out as a starter too. Do you think Jesse, though, they acquire a goalie at the deadline because I just, it just feels like they're going for it, right? They make the move for Fiala. It sounds like they really want to get in on Chikrin. And are you, are you trusting Phoenix Copley to win you a cup? Probably not. But at the same time, like, how many goalies out there, like, I think there are some goalies available, but are there goleys that are, this is a Stanley Cup winning goalie

that you can trade for? I think if there is a goalie, on the block, there's a reason for him being on the block. So I do, like, Vamelka is a great one. Cheap doesn't, his contract is super reasonable for the next few years. I think he's a good goalie. But are you saying Vemelka is the guy that's going to put the team on his back and carry him to a Stanley Cup? I don't know. So I don't know if there's a goalie out there that's like the surefire. This is the guy to, to go get. You think, you think Pat Verbeek would play ball and here, here's John Gibson. Let's, to, to the team 25 minutes north?

I mean, that's the guy, right? If there is a goalie out there, like Gibson, he hasn't looked great these last couple years. And I do think watching him with the eye test, he's built some bad habits playing behind a just embarrassment of a defense. I think sometimes when you face 50 shots a night, you're going to build bad habits. And I do think he hasn't been as good.

But maybe a change of scenery. You can get the old John Gibson. The old John Gibson can for sure lead you to a Stanley Cup. Yeah, goal is saved above expected. like last in the league the last couple of years. His play has not been good. It's not just the team in front of it. Hey, what do you think of my rapid fire, Rob?

I'm just, I just muted my mic. You want a host? Go right ahead. You're not getting paid anymore. I forgot. I forgot this is not supposed to be a conversation debate. There we are we. What are we?

Now, February 15th, Russo still has not grasped this segment of the show. But, hey, we laugh and we love it. Speaking of possible change of scenery, as you mentioned, Jesse, Thatcher Demko set to return, Austin Matthews as well, but I wanted to throw this Demko thing out there because there were a lot of rumors he wanted out of Vancouver, who can blame him. This week he denied that he had asked to be moved. Is Thatcher Demko sticking around in Vancouver?

And Jesse will start with you again because the other guy doesn't know about rapid fire and it's a goal of topic. Yeah, I mean, I think he probably does stick there. I think it would probably cost a lot to get him out, and I just don't see any team having the money or the resources to get him out. I think he's another guy, though, if you're looking for a goalie that can, if at their peak, can they lead you to a cup? I think that your Dempco is good enough. So I guess there is another option out there.

Mike, what do you think, quickly? Yeah, I don't know. I think everybody wants that of Vancouver. Last time I said that, it went, so. Why add Dempco to the list? No, I don't actually, why would you want? He was so close. He was so close.

He was so close. I just want to know, like I just want to live in one of those incredible like high rises right over the harbor. Like you wake up every morning. You're just in a great mood no matter what's going on at the hockey rink. Why would you want out of Vancouver? Go back and listen to a few of our podcast and that'll give you the answer why you might want out of Vancouver. Finally, rapid fire topic number four. How ridiculous are the Boston Bruins?

40th win last night. Matches the fewest games in NHL history to reach that mark. Two things are within their sights, guys. 62 wins, which would match the Red Wings in 96 and the Lightning in 2019, and 132 points by arguably one of the greatest teams in NHL history in the 1976-77 Montreal Canadians. Yes, this is the team that many of us claimed. Don't know if they're going to make the playoffs, and here they are flirting with history. Russo.

Yeah, and remember, like a week ago, they were in their big slump, right? They had only points in like two or five games, and everybody was like freaking out. Yeah, I mean, they're just so good. They got the guy that Jesse and I, you know, fell in love with a couple of weeks ago and align us all mark. But you got, I mean, just up and down their lineup, they were so deep, great blue line. You know, last time I'm watching their PK, we were shooting the breeze with Jim Nill about it before we went on the air about the five on three and the four on

that they were able to kill last night. Their penalty kill is just absolutely ridiculous. They have it all. And yet I also expect them to make a move at the deadline. They have got to be the team to beat this year. Do they want to have 132 points, though? That's like my question is like, do you push for that? Because we've seen over and over and over these teams that push for that.

Or like Colorado Avalanche, we obviously think of the Lightning team, but the avalanche, the year they won the President's trophy, didn't go so well in the playoffs. The teams that coast that aren't pushing as hard as they can are usually the ones that do well in the postseason. So I don't know if they want those records. I mean, obviously they do. If you ask the players, they're going to say they do,

but I'm not so sure they do. Or I'm not so sure they should. I don't even know they're really doing anything that's pushing it, though. Like I just, I've watched a lot of Boston this year. They're just good. They're just good. Yeah, that's how I feel. Like I look at the teams that they could play,

maybe in the playoffs, right? Pittsburgh, Washington, Florida, Buffalo are going for it. Maybe the Islanders are in there. Like, I mean, I just have trouble even envisioning them, say, at least in the first round, getting upset. You say that now. I'll hear Seroca stops 49 of 50 on the first game one, and they lose. And it's like, well, here we go. Like, you're tighten up. Yeah, you know, you're right there. I mean, look, they are, I mean, I hear what you're saying. It always just seems like the president's trophy winner just, you know, has that meltdown at some point. But I don't know, this team is just, uh, unless Allmark or there's an injury. They're really good.

Unless, uh, yeah, they're really good. I think the only thing that could really hurt them is the fact that they're pat to the Stanley Cup finals going to be a lot, a lot more difficult than the West. Yeah. That's it. By the, even if they come out of the east, they're going to be a lot more, you know, a lot more beaten up than whatever team comes out of the West because it's just a much, much better for sure.

All right, boys. What are we working on this week? Russo? Working on a story on actually a bunch of stories, which I see and I are working on a couple goalie stories. He's talked so much about goaltending on the show, Rob. I'm like, I got to align myself with that and write some good goalie stories. I'm doing really one story with Joe Smith, my colleague here on Minnesota, about, I almost gave one away, but about playing the role of banker and how teams positioned themselves as the third party. I talked to a GM, the other day. We, you know, had Jim Nell talk about the same topic today. So working on that story, I am have in the works, hopefully a really cool trade downline story nationally that everybody is

going to read. And then working on that still story that's about embedding myself in the situation room. That'll run right before the GM's meetings as well. So a lot of really cool stories. Also talking a bunch of referees right now. We're doing a cross vertical project here at the athletic where we're talking to football. baseball, basketball and hockey refs, former refs, about what it's like to officiate the last couple minutes of a big game, obviously stemming off that holding penalty at the end of the Super Bowl. And that is a really neat story. I've talked to a couple of refs already, and it's been really fascinating the stories. Nice. Yeah, I've got lots of trade deadline stuff. Obviously,

the Golden Knights, they love to be active during this time. So lots of that. And also a fun story on a scoring game, a game that these players play in practice, that Jonathan Marshall has started, where they're betting who will score more goals in each practice and that the players have a lot of fun with it. So I'm doing a fun story on kind of a behind the scenes. The types of shenanigans players are getting into during practices. See, what Jesse just said is what we were talking about last week, Rob, like with the All-Star game. Like, you know, if you turn the skills competition into a bunch of different betting games, these guys will go all out. And I mean, we see it all the time, right? It happens on the golf courts, happens on the plane.

when they're playing cards and the horse racing game. That's the new big thing on airplanes. You can buy it on Amazon for 40 bucks. It's just a really fun game. Like to me, what Jesse's writing about is the way to make the All-Star game and really spice it up. It's what happens in real life, too. That's me, my friends, you know, there's the old saying, if it's worth arguing about or worth doing, it's worth gambling on too.

So, yeah, I guess that's the Rousseau just fixed the All-Star game. And by the way, there was a holding penalty at the end of the Super Bowl? I didn't hear about that, I don't know. Yeah, I didn't hear about that at all. Thanks, boys. Another great show. I wanted to let everybody else know some of the things you should listen to. Elliot Freeman, very busy guy at this time of year.

He's going to be joining Jonas and Myrtle on the Leaf Report this week. And you got Don Waddell who stopped by the Athletic Show USA with Craig and Sean. Be sure to go listen to that now that you're done listening to us. Also want to let you know, go get an annual subscription to the athletic. It's just two bucks a month for a year when you visit the athletic.com slash hockey show. And you can subscribe to the athletics YouTube channel. So you don't have to just listen to us, guys. You can actually see us ramble on and on and on during rapid fire segments.

If you go to YouTube.com slash the athletic hockey show. The athletic hockey show returns Thursday with Ian Mendez and down goes brown. Big thanks to Jim Nail for coming on. For Russo, for Jesse. I'm Pizzo. We'll see you next week.