The Athletic Hockey Show - John Tortorella's gamble pays off as Flyers respond to Couturier healthy scratch

Episode Date: March 20, 2024

New Papa Frankie Corrado joins Sean and DGB to discuss John Tortorella's controversial decision to bench captain Sean Couturier, in the Flyers regulation win over the Maple Leafs. The guys recap the General Manager meetings and the proposed rule changes to reviewing high sticks and the puck over the glass penalty. The guys praise the play of the Carolina Hurricanes, specifically the play of newcomer Jake Guentzel and the resurgence of Evgeny Kuznetsov.Sean and Sean share what they've learned in the NHL in the past week: The resurgent Capitals may in fact be a playoff team and how the once set East wildcard is completely up in the air with 15 games left in the season. The two Sean's also mourn the loss of former NHL'ers Chris Simon and Konstantin Kolstov who passed away this week far too soon. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Welcome, welcome, welcome. This is the athletic hockey show to Sean's One Frank edition. Frankie Crotto will join. Down Goes Brown, Sean McIndoo and me, Sean Jantilly here shortly. But we're here for segment one. Frank, you'll be around. We actually recorded it already.

Here's a little peek behind the curtain, folks. Oh, wow. You're doing this? I guess. Okay. We talked to Frankie for like a solid half hour. He's dealing with beautiful new twin baby girls, which is why he was out last week. And he found time to talk to us about John Tortorella and Puck Over Glass and a bunch of stuff that like you couldn't, you couldn't torture me to have that conversation after dealing with whatever seven day old babies.

No thank you. He's a trooper. And all about Sean Couture. So like extra Sean content. on the podcast. Three shons. Three shons. Two shons about a third Sean.

By neither of his daughter's is named Sean. Maybe next time. What have we learned, Sean? Buddy, what do we learn this week? Here's what I learned. I am done with predicting

and prognasticating the Eastern wildcard race. I'm done. Lucy has yanked the football on me. So often. So what have we done? Okay, we, we did. At, at one point it was the Islanders are done.

They fired their coach. They didn't get the new coach bounce. They might have been done twice, actually, now that I think about it. Yeah. Then, then they win five or six in a row. We're all like, Islanders are back, baby. Islanders are back. They're going to make the flip.

No. Nope. Uh-huh. Just, we got you. We're actually not good again. The Red Wings. Same deal. All year.

What's happening with the Red Wings? Suddenly they're winning. They're unbeatable. Not only are they going to make the playoffs, they're going to run away with this thing. Nope, just kidding. We stink. We can't win a game.

We're out. Now we're starting to do it with Washington. I feel like we kind of did it with the Sabres a little bit, but maybe they're next. The Penguins, obvious, I'm done. I'm done getting suckered in and declaring some team

is going to make the playoffs, only for them to immediately lose four in a row. I've seen this gimmick enough times. You're not getting me again. I'm done. Tell me at the end of the season which team has earned the rights to absolutely get their doors kicked in by the Florida Panthers or whoever, and I will pay attention at that point.

But I'm done sitting here at the beginning of every segment talking about some team that's won five in a row just so they can immediately go and lose seven to nothing to the blue jackets the next night. buddy here's what I've learned I'm not done yet you fool here comes the cats baby they're they are the one that's gonna come

like I mean am I joking am I not I can't really say but it would only be fair after the joke of a season that we've seen in the Eastern Conference where it's you didn't even mention New Jersey who's in the midst of the biggest the biggest slog of all even in a and then they go out and beat

Pittsburgh yesterday sure these races are embarrassing it's only going to be appropriate that a team that I have given zero serious consideration to a sense of start of the season at no point from September or October or November on that I think that the Washington capitals were going to be within whatever, a nine iron shot of a, of a, of a, of a, of a, of a, of a, of a, of a, of a, of a, of a, of a, of a, of a, of a spot here. And they are. Now, should they be? Oh, of course not. Right. There are seven teams, New Jersey, Pittsburgh. And you've got the flyers as well who are still in danger based on getting caught for third spot.

Those seven teams, the Washington Capitals in their last 10 games have gone six and four and have gained ground on all of them. Six and four is the best record in the last 10 games of those seven teams, six wins in a league, 12 points, a league that gives points for losing, a league that gives points for losing, a league that gives points for coming close enough. You tried really hard and you almost won tonight. Here's half a win. And six and four is enough to gain ground on everybody.

And like how is this happening? It's question number one. We don't know why. But this month you can look at it and you can say, all right, Charlie Lindgren's been good. Because he has. He's tied for the league lead with a nine. 47% in March.

And the power play has been, you know, fine, right? They're top 10. I think they're, I want to say they're sixth in the league in power play conversion for March. That alone is enough. And that's how bad East is. If you have like two things that are kind of going right, you know, on across, across the board, it's enough to vault you into playoff position.

Because on balance, this team stinks. Jayfresh outlined a bunch of this on Twitter on Twitter last night, but it bears repeating here. Charlie Lindgren, 940. What are we doing? What is, why do people like us write and talk about hockey as if there's anything to analyze here?

Charlie Lindgren, Charlie Lindgren, and that team's going to make the playoffs. This is, you could literally track it to like two or three hot strikes by Charlie Lindgren. Like that's why, that's why this is happening. He was really good at the start of the season.

And he was, he was, uh, he, there was a little bit of a lull there for him, you know, probably in February, but he's, he's been good. And that's enough. This team is 29th in goal differential at five on five. They're 24th in special teams, goal differential. They're 30th and overtime goal differential. That's it. Those aren't like, that's not voodoo stats.

That's not complicated stuff. That's not expected goals percentage. That is actual performance that should boot a team. from this conversation months ago. And they woke up in a playoff spot yesterday. They had a night off, so we'll see. But it's unbelievable. You look at this team and you say,

what are they good at? Tom Wilson, fourth on that team in points with 31. He's got 31 points in 65 games. He's their fourth leading score. They're 29th in goals. Like, how is this happening? Dead last in the conference in goals scored. They either win one goal games.

They're 16, 2, and 4 or something. Or they get smoked. That's it. That's their M.O. I'm done trying to explain it. I'm psyched for the next month or whatever, when they can really take hold of a playoff spot in the Eastern Conference. And by the way, because this is the part, as you well know,

as soon as you start talking about any team, start saying anything negative, you can hear people, right? well you obviously don't watch the games because if you watch the games you would know that this team is really good you know who probably does watch the games i'm thinking bry mcclennan the gm of the team uh who just sold at the deadline who just ran up the white flight was like we're not good here's a bunch of guys we're going to you mentioned tom wilson fourth leading score on the team it's actually anthony mantha's still the fourth leading score on that team they traded him away they trade away uh edmondson they trade away because net's out like they they sold

They got a bunch of picks, which is what bad teams are supposed to do. So good for them because they knew what they were. They're a bad team. But this is a year where a bad team is going to get into the playoffs in the East. Maybe not just one. Yeah. Like, what, eight, eight playoffs, like how many good playoffs? How many good Eastern Conference teams are there five maybe?

I think Tampa's good. I still am worried about Tampa. So I would, but I don't think Philadelphia is good. And by the way, if you could bet on like will one of those teams, Philadelphia, Washington are those teams behind them, Detroit that we mentioned, one of those teams winning around, like what would you, 50, 50, probably at this point that they're going to come in and just. I love it. Charlie Lindgren will go 940, no, 940, no, 980 against, against Carolina or New York or Florida. And what are we doing? The sport doesn't make any sense.

I love it. I love it. I love, I've come to appreciate the fact that, you know, the Red Wings are a great example. There's no, there's no reason they should have hung around as long as they did. They're there with the caps in terms of, in terms of five on five,

just played. It actually was explained to me by Red Wing fans what's going on. And that was that the vibes. I don't know if you heard this on the vibes were immaculate. And then I guess they just, they forgot to turn on the vibes. I should, somebody tripped over the court and pulled out the,

Yeah, the plug on the vibe, the vibe meter. They have a, yeah, they have a, they're plugged into the, uh, Dylan Larkin's pretty good and everyone else is shooting 20% machine. That, that one, that one ran out of batteries. Dylan Larkin might, might get on some heart ballasts this year the way that they, uh, who, the way they fell apart as soon as he was gone. I don't, I think it doesn't make any sense. I think people should be less precious about this and fans of these teams should be

less precious about it. If you like the Red Wings or you like the caps. or maybe to a lesser extent, the Islanders, the Flyers, like you should feel good about the fact that your team, despite being mathematically, observationally bad as a chance to make this happen. Like, that should be fun. It's like,

savor the flavor of having a junk team potentially squeaking in the playoffs because it's a lot of fun. We haven't seen anything like this. Don't do the whole, don't do the whole, you know, we're actually secretly good. No. But what you can do is nobody believes in us, which is a very, very fun card to play. And it's accurate in this case.

Nobody does believe in your teams. Nobody should, but nobody does. So go ahead. Or, you know, you're not. The Islanders have lost 10 more games than they've won. And yet, they're right there. And by the way, I'd be scared as hell to play the Islanders in the playoffs with, with Syroken.

But maybe it's going to be, it'll be certain. Sergei Bobrovsky, you know, whoever this year's version of that is, if you're a Cavs fan, you should just be like, yeah, this team is garbage and it's going to be great whenever we roll into Carolina and beat the Keynes in five despite getting. You're a Caps fan. How many times did it happen to you the other way? How many 120-point seasons did you have where Yaroslav Halak or whoever would run it? Now you get to be that team.

It's fun. going to ruin the lives and some other Exactly. Everyone should lean into the fun of watching watching bad teams play well.

Dude, going into the playoffs with no expectations as a least fan, I'm begging for that. Man, that would be so much fun to get,

to go in. You have expectations. Yeah, exactly. That's not fun. That stinks. Expectations that they lose in the first round.

Okay. Yeah. On to Frankie. All right, we're back. Frankie's here. Uh, buddy,

you had a pretty big deadline week, post-deadline week acquisition, right? That's right. Yeah, a couple lifetime contracts signed. We're thrilled, man. We welcome our identical twin girls last Wednesday, so they're a week old today, and they're doing great. Mom's doing great.

And the last week has felt like a month, not going to lie. I'm so excited for you and also you're done as far as time. Yeah, yeah. The days of the week will no longer have a feel. which is actually when you're a player, like when you're playing, you have no idea what Thursday or Tuesday or even Saturday feels like. Saturday might have a little more of a feeling because if you play on hockey night in Canada, that has a buzz to it, but everything else is just, it's just a blur.

Sean, like, how old were your kids before you actually had a sense of what day it was when you were waking up? Has it happened yet? It's a while. I mean, it's school. When you got to get, once you get them into school or at least daycare where it's like, all right, it's Saturday. I got to deal with these things all day now.

But no, they don't. Watching hockey's different. Watching hockey's a little different now. Like now it's like, hey, let's get the PVR going. There's like an iPad situation. Like next year, you're trying to McGiver, these kinds of setups. So we're getting there, though.

I just want to reinforce you have two of them, too. Two babies. Not one. Good Lord. Man on man, man, defense right now. You see it

when you have to switch the zone. That's when stuff gets ugly, I've heard. Yeah. All right. Torts,

Torts always well, when I played for him, he was adamant. He's like, we play a zone defense here. So we'll see. Maybe I can learn from Torts.

That's such a pro segue from you. My God. You're back. You took one week off. You're dealing with, you're dealing with two infants. You're back in prime form. Yeah.

We're still talking about sports. We're going to be talking about that for, I think, I think a few more days. It seems like it seems like it's something we could see again, honestly, if there results on Tuesday night or any indication. Scratchez-a-Cautier-Filly wins. They look pretty good in the process, beating Toronto and in regulation there. Yeah, but Frankie said it, man, you have some experience playing for this guy.

what is, you know, what is, what do you, when, when you see him make a decision like that, is that, that takes an added level of Jews. This isn't like a normal lineup decision, like sitting Katarié down, especially after, you know, everything that's gone on this year is, is a wild one. So what goes through your head when you see something like that happen? A lot of things. Okay, the first thing that comes to my mind is it's not uncommon for veteran players who are very good or were once considered very good and a big part of their team,

it's not uncommon for them to be healthy scratched at points. It's not a big deal. It happens. The thing that's very significant about this is when someone's your captain, there's a lot that goes with that. And, you know, your captain play so many different roles within the organization, within the room. You know, he's a little bit of a buffer between the coaching staff and the players.

You know, there's a communication line there. like your captain is supposed to have a different kind of relationship than the rest of the players with the coach. And to healthy scratch your captain, I think it takes away some of the credibility of that player within the locker room. And that's what's so so difficult about a situation like that. I'm of the belief that if you think it's going this way for that player, you A, have to make sure you're talking to him more than another player. You kind of owe him a little more leeway in that regard. And what I mean by that is you've got to warn him like,

this is where we're headed if your game doesn't pick up. I don't think it's not a motivated thing. I think it's one of those things where it's like the game is literally not there where it needs to be. But like, I'm going to give you some time here. But just so you know, like if it doesn't pick up, this is where we're going. So you give them ample runway. the other thing that that really comes to light here and Kachurie was talking about how, you know, Torts has said, I want more. I need more.

And he's like, I don't know exactly what that means. That's all he told me. I need. Like with a guy like that, you kind of owe it to him to be a little more specific. That way you just, you eliminate any of the excuses where it's like, I literally fed it to you exactly what we need and you still couldn't do it. So then at the end of the day, we've exhausted all our options, and this is where we went. It's just, I think it's, it's, it's, it's, it's interesting that, that it's the captain, that it's a very significant person to be healthy scratched. And you're talking about, you're talking about giving them runways, just like, because whatever, we could talk about this forever.

And I'm down with that. We should say specifically that, uh, in a story that Kevin Kurz, our buddy who covers the flyers here wrote yesterday, like the agent. is pissed because he's he's telling curs yesterday like you know essentially we don't know exactly what is going on here like there was no explanation there certainly was an adequate one it doesn't and it didn't seem like there was there was there was there was one at all so you know i don't is that is that kind of explanation is like is that an explanation that a that a fourth liner gets or like that a seventh he gets you know like that kind of player like that kind of guy and that that that's who i was that is like that's who i was right? I was a seventh, eighth defenseman. I walked into the rink every day. And if I didn't see my name on

the board, which was much more often than not, I was like, okay, it's just another day. Like, no one really needs to give you an explanation. You kind of know what you are. Right. If you're in the lineup, it's great. If you're not, it's just another day in the NHL and you just kind of, you know, you go to work that day. For him, like when, when you're a captain, you're owed a little more because you have that, that communication line. Like the, the captain, is able to go into the coach's office and talk about things more than other players. It's just, it's a different kind of relationship. But this is, like, this is the way Torts has operated for a long time.

I think the other moment that really sticks out to me is the Heritage Classic back in 2014, where he chose not to play Roberto Luongo, and he played Eddie Lack in that game. And that, like, and it's funny that, it's funny that Torts did this against Toronto. I think if this happens against Columbus, it gets some, it gets some, some cashé in like the local market. It might make a couple headlines, but you do it against Toronto. Man, everyone's picking it up. National media in Canada, especially, national media in the States, it really becomes a story. So that's two instances that I can think of, a heritage classic game, which is a big deal.

You don't play your franchise goalie. And then your captain against the Maple Leafs, like, I don't know. I don't know if that's on purpose. I don't know if it's just a coincidence, but it is interesting. During the GM meetings too, like Breyer got asked about it in Florida yesterday, which is not something that would happen under normal circumstances,

right? Like, you're typically not going to have a GM answering lineup questions, especially one that's that huge on the day that it happens. But, you know, as it stands, he has to sit there and talk to LeBron and CJ and Elliot and all these guys that are down there for that. So that's another kind of round of, you know, Toronto angle reminds me a little bit of the, and you guys may not even remember, there's a lot of people listening won't, but back in the 90s when Steve Casper, the Boston Bruins, benched Cam Neely and Kevin Stevens in a game, Hockey Night in Canada at Maple Leaf Gardens.

And when I say benched them, he didn't scratch them. They dressed, they put on the uniform, and then they sat on the bench for 60 straight minutes and didn't play. It's so embarrassing. It's so embarrassing to do that. Yeah. And by the way, I should say Steve Casper was a rookie head coach. John Torturella, not so much. So, you know, and Casper was gone the next year.

When do you think the last time, like, when did that even, when's the last time that happened in the NHL to dress a dude, let alone two and sit them for an, for discipline, you know, like. Yeah, for discipline. I wonder what that, what that is. It wasn't like they had a bad shit for a bad period. Yeah. And this is Cam Neely. Like, I mean, a guy who's literally given his body, it was one of the worst things I've ever seen.

Just for context, according to TVA, this is the first time in 10 years that a captain has been healthy scratched for reasons other than getting some rest like at the end of the season sort of thing. Ed Jovanowski, according to TVA, was the last guy. That was in Florida. And that was his last year in the league. He was. He was out there. resurfacing surgery that year. So he was banged up.

And this is the other thing with Couturier that is important to point out. He's a player who's been hurt a lot over his career. And he was hurt at one point in January. And by all accounts, some of the local Philly media members have kind of said, like, he's one of those guys who really downplays his injuries. And, you know, something could be lingering. Something could be bothering him. And he's the kind of guy that'll say, no, not an issue.

I'm 100%. As long as I'm on that ice, I'm 100%. And speaking from experience, like you get hurt or you have things that come your way as a player. You have this tunnel vision focus, warrior mentality. And you're like, that doesn't matter. And no one really cares if you have things that are lingering. As long as you're on the ice, you're going to get treated and critique like everyone else. And Sean Couturey obviously has that.

So I do wonder if maybe there is things lingering, but he's been downplaying. the significance of it. But like we were talking about this on the leaf panel last night. It is such a bold move from Tortorella because if he pulls it off, he looks like a genius. And it's just another chapter in the story of Torts knows how to push his players buttons. And if he doesn't pull it off, it becomes a big distraction and it backfires on him. And do you lose the room? And you know, you go back to his time in Vancouver.

He was there for one year. There was a lot of turmoil that year. There was the Luongo thing. There was going down the hall to fight Bob Hartley, which I think a lot of players in Calgary's room wouldn't have minded if he got a couple shots in on him. But by the end of the year, like, the act had gone tired. But last night, it turns into another chapter, and Torts knows what he's doing, and the team wins the game, and they played hard.

Like, that's the thing that really comes to light. They played hard. They took it to the Leafs for the majority of that game. So hard to argue with the result they got. The difference I feel like between Vancouver and Philly is that, you know, the Canucks hiring him. I don't, you know, who knows, but it always felt like a desperation move, right? After all those, after all those years where they were close but not quite and then something needs to change. So they bring him in.

And it was clear from the jump that whether he's hired as a mercenary kind of situation, it's clear from the jump that it wasn't going to work. Like straight, straight away, the mix was. the mix was off ain't the case in philly that guy is a is it clearly a franchise pillar he's a big part of the plan for them moving forward for better or worse like whether you agree with it or not like he's a big part of what they're doing he's a big part of what they're planning on doing and he has sway there that i that he certainly didn't have in vancouver and that i think very like not a ton of head coaches have period throughout the league let alone a guy that's coaching you know a team that

theoretically is in a rebuild so man I don't, it seems like it means, it means even more coming from. By the way, he, he named, like, he didn't need to name Sean Cotteria captain in January. That was a, that was a choice that that dude made. Just, we should say in January, not two years ago, like Ed Giovanni. The middle of January, mid-January, it was 35 days ago or something like that. Yeah, I can't remember, but it's, it's, it's really bizarre. Though, the other thing that, that I remember about my time with torts and a lot of players that have

played for him have really echoed this. There's two things. Some guys will play for torts and they'll say, man, I wish I played for this guy sooner when I was younger because he really could have helped me in my game at a different point in my career. And then there's some guys who play for torts when they are younger and they say, I didn't appreciate what I had. Like he really wanted to make me a better player. And I realized how good he was after the fact when I went and played somewhere else and saw some different coaching. So that's another thing. Like, Ristelainen had talked about that this year where he kind of said like, I wish I had this guy earlier. And Cam Atkinson, who also got healthy scratched, no one's talking about that, obviously, because the Coturier thing's a big deal.

And I think that just goes back to the point where it's like, you know, veteran guys sitting out is not a big deal. It does happen. It's just more significant when it's the captain. But Atkinson had said, like, I've been healthy scratch by Tors before. And it's almost like he's bought into the fact that every once in a while he just needs it. and he comes back and he plays better. But he's bought into like, I think, you know, Torts knows what he's doing and he knows how to get the most out of me. It's weird to think that way, though, as a player.

You just, you always want to be out there and you always want to be a big factor. Part of what surprised me was last night after the game, and I guess maybe I shouldn't be surprised, but Tordoril doesn't say anything. It basically no-sells the question that he knows is coming. Again, like, you're doing this against Toronto. Like, it's your biggest media night. And, you know, he acts kind of, you know, surprised or offended that somebody's asking him about it. But, man, like, you did not have that explanation, to have the agent pulling in. And by the way, we should say Sean Kutri has got six years left on a big money contract that has a lot of bonuses.

So it's not even a buyout the target. You know, he's still only 31 years old, by the way, man. John Ketri is 31. How about that? Yeah. It just, it feels like he's a lot older. well and the other thing like at the start of the year when Couturee was playing and Philly was doing well it was like oh they just got you know this is found money. Sean Couturee is playing and he had a good start to the year.

So like me and that's why I kind of go back to Sean like the maybe he is banged up and maybe he is minimizing it because we've seen this year that Sean Couturee can be a good player. And maybe it just is a little bit of a rut or maybe he has banged up, whatever the case may be. But, you know, if he can get himself back to feeling good, have a good summer of training, it's always hard. It's hard when you go into an offseason and you're not 100% because you're nursing something and you're in that like kind of rehab state while everyone else around you is making gains and you're just trying to get back to that even par to put it in like a golf perspective. Now every once in the summer they're making birdies and eagles and they're going into, you know,

camp feeling great. So maybe that's something for Kateria here. He has some time left. on his deal. He's obviously making a lot of money. He can just stay healthy. Get some good summers. Compound that and maybe you are feeling better. I don't know. It's hard though.

He's been so banged up. Doesn't it feel like any other team, any other coach would have just said, hey, the guy needs a night off. He's banged up. He's a little bit, you know, our captain's a little banged up. So, you know, he's going to sit out and we're going to go win this for.

But I mean, they made it really clear. Healthy scratch. Not good enough. I mean, it was like right there, the easy excuse, I don't think anybody would be like, I don't think Sean Cotteria has really hurt. He's banged up. The lowest he played this season was the game prior to this against Boston, right?

Like, that was, I don't even know what the ice time was. I just know it was the lowest. He benched him. They benched him after he, after, like, he backchecked and helped set up a goal. And then he didn't play a shift after that was bizarre. Is there, is there like, this is something that. that I've always wondered and I don't know, you can speak this as well as well as anybody.

Is there like an ideal personality type to play under torts? Like, does he, who responds? Like, what kind of guys respond to the buttons and the levers that he, that he pushes and pulls? Like, is it like, is it like, do, like, mouthy dudes play better than him?

Is it like alpha, like, like, more quiet? Like, who is the ideal torts player? Because you look at the guy that he's had trouble, with are the guys that he's benched and there's like not a clear through line on that from the outside like who does this what kind of dude does this guy like i think there's i think there's two types of guys i think there's the guys that for lack of a better term they make it seem like they have zero give a shit level you know what i mean where it's like yeah nothing really bothers me say what you want no problem i just do my business i operate the same way every day there's that guy

but i think the other guy that does well under torts is the guy that's okay with going back at him and not letting his ego get, like, drive it. You know what I mean? Like, it's not your ego driving it. You're not taking it personal, but you know a lot about hockey, and you're very confident in your ability, and you can kind of stand up for yourself. I think Torz really likes that.

And I don't think, like, in my experience, when I played for him, I was 20 years old. I was not going to say boo to anyone. Whatever you say, no problem, right? Like, shut your mouth, play hockey, do what you're told, and that's the end of the story. And I never felt that torts took advantage of that. Like, I always felt like he was, he was, like, firm, but fair in the way he communicated with me.

And I'll give you an example of that. The very first time I got called up to play for him, actually, let's go back even further. Let's go to training camp. 20 years old, just played in the playoffs. We got swept by San Jose, coaching change, whole new staff, all that kind of stuff. 20 years old, come into camp. I actually had a good camp. Like I was pretty happy with it, but there were, you know, there were seven or eight defensemen there.

So he brings me in after the last game of the preseason, I had a goal and an assist against the Rangers. And he goes, first thing he does, he goes, you had a good camp. We're sending you to Utica. He goes, there's no sense in you being here unless you're going to play every day in our top six. And even then, it's probably not worth it for you. You should go play a lot of minutes in the HL and just be ready to get called up. I said, okay. And that's how quick it was.

And it was, you know, it was fair. And then I get called up later in the year, probably sometime in December. And he comes up to me, he goes, you need a little time to adjust here. So he goes, I'm not going to play you a regular shift. He goes, you're going to play, but you're not playing a regular shift. So I don't know what your ice time is going to look like, but it's not going to be what you're kind of expecting. I said, okay. So the first few games, I've probably played seven, eight minutes.

minutes. It was really tough to play those kinds of games, but I knew what to expect. Like, he had kind of told me that. And then after that, he came up to me, he goes, okay, you'll get a regular shift now. And then I started getting the regular shift. So there was, like, there was communication, but it was blunt and honest. There's one other moment that really stands out to me. I had played a pretty good game. Alex Edler was coming back from, from injury. And we were actually on the plane, the way the, like, taking him off IR worked. Like, we traveled from Vancouver to LA. And on the plane ride down,

I woke up from a nap and the team services guy tapped me on the shoulder. He goes, hey, Torts wants to talk to you. So I go to the front of the plane and sure enough, Torts goes, hey, come sit next to me. He's got his laptop out. He's doing some video stuff. He goes, obviously, you know,

Eddie's back. So we're sending you down. So you'll fly out of L.A.X and go meet Utica. I can't remember where they were. Maybe San Antonio. So it wasn't too bad. and then he goes, I just want to show you something. He goes, this is our video clips that I'm showing the team tomorrow.

And he goes to a clip. He goes, this is a really good job by you. It was like a defensive zone clip. He goes, just wanted to let you know, like, this is going to be in the video tomorrow. Great job. A couple things. And then, you know, go play well down in Utica. So listen, I don't know, like every everyone has a different experience.

That's my experience with torts. I always thought he was honest, but, you know, very, very blunt in the way he communicated. And sometimes I didn't like it. Like there were certain things that you just didn't like because he can, you know, kind of fly off the handlebars. But I think after it's all, you know, set and done, you do appreciate how honesty is with you. Yeah, unless you're Sean Keturier and you're like, what the hell is going on here. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. We do have GM meeting stuff to talk about. That's always kind of a mixed bag. I feel like coming out of it, it's, you know, there's always going to be some rules tweaks. there's always going to it's like it's same shit different day for for for general managers meetings but we do have relevant stuff to talk about we've got tweaks to the replay system potentially right where we're going to have uh coaches challenge are going to be able to be used on puck over glass penalties and uh friendly high sticks uh what do we what do we think of this is that is that something that's that's uh that you're that you're happy to see or is it just incremental enough. for like, I think it cares. Well, it feels like there's an appetite from a lot of fans to actually eliminate some of the video review.

The problem is we've gone down this road now where we've really made a point of saying everything is so important. The stakes are so high, right? The points in the regular season are so important when it comes to the playoffs. Then you get into the playoffs in every game, every little, you know, incident can sway the momentum in a playoff series. So it's so important to get these things right. So I get the validity to both sides of it. But we've gone down this path where, you know, everything is kind of having a video review. So it does make sense that something like, you know, puck over glass or friendly fire high sticks are able to be reviewed. It may slow things down a little bit. But, you know,

when you see the way coaches are getting fired, left, right and center, You know, and you see, you know, how high the stakes are for everything. I don't know. How do you guys feel? Don't you think we kind of owe it to the players and everyone to be like, listen, we're just going to get it right. And if it slows things down, at least no one got the short end of the stick. And we got as many things right as we possibly could.

DGB has puck over glass thoughts. You're about to hear them. See, I've got both because I get, and I got a lot of people pinging me after this. this news came out because I can't stand the puck over glass rule and I can't stand replay review. So now you're taking the two things I hate and mushing them together and

I think people expect me to be more worked up about it. Like, you know, that now it's twice as bad and instead I just look at it as two bad things come together to still be a bad thing. We've consolidated two bad things. Hey, two wrongs don't make a right. Okay.

Exactly. Exactly. It's just two wrongs just make a wrong. I, you know, puck over glass, look, I've, I, I have had this conversation a thousand times. I understand there are people out there who swear, absolutely will swear to you that there was an epidemic of guys just shooting the puck over the glass all the time before we had this rule. I have no recollection of it. Nobody can ever give me a specific example. Nobody can ever give me a clip, but people swear it used to happen. To me, it's icing. It's exactly the same, you know, Frank, you're in your own zone.

The pressure's on whether you flip that puck over the glass or you turn and you shoot it down the ice. You're delaying the game. It's a, it's a cheap, boring, unintertaining play. Treat them the same way. Now, now we're going to do this replay review. My issue with replay review is always, you know, you said it, the argument in favor of it. Just get it right. Does it feel like we're getting it right?

Does it, you know, does anybody look at goalie interference reviews and, go, man, we're nailing all of these. I really have... Goal interference is an opinion. Yeah. At this point. And I've written about it. I've written about how it's not as

confusing as people think, but even I can get to like 80 or 90%. It's not 100%. Offsides where you're looking at, I will never, for the life of me, understand why we have to look at off sides a millimeter. Because that's how the rules say. Meanwhile,

you score a goal off an offensive zone face off. You go back and look at the replay. There's eight guys with their skates over the line. eight guys drifting into the circle. It's completely, we throw the rule book out. Nobody cares. Nobody wants to review. And, you know, some of this other stuff, remember the one last year in the playoffs with Edmonton and L.A.

where there was a L.A. I think scored an overtime goal, but the Oilers were saying it had touched a high stick. And man, we analyzed that like it was a Pruder film. We had like, oiler fans were showing this shot from outer space. And they're like, look, that proves. And you're just like, and everybody's arguing. And it had nothing to do with the play. That's replay culture, man. They have nothing to do with anything.

As soon as, you know, as soon as the league says, we're going to hand out these get out of jail free cards, fans and teams and everybody says, well, I want my get out of jail free card. I got scored on fair and square, but I want it to not count. So let me have a replay. So bottom line, if, if we're going to. use replay to get rid of some puck over glass penalties, I guess I'm okay with it. The friendly fire high stick makes sense to me because that happens a couple of times a year.

Yeah. This is not going to be. But this thing we have now where you've got guys whose whole job it is to just watch the game and two guys. Two guys. There's two. I've sat in this room. I've been healthy scratch so many times that you try finding different places to watch the games. So sometimes you're like, I don't feel like going up top today.

You know, maybe I'll check in with the video coaches and you just leave. You can't even be in there because one guy is on the earpiece and he's got his computer going and he's clipping everything. And at the same time, he's ripping everyone. What is he doing? Is he an idiot? Like, I got to get it. And then the other guy, every, he's got another TV. Every entry into the blue line, he rewinds it.

And he just makes sure everything's okay. Like, these guys are constantly going at it. But I think you bring up a good point about the puck over glass and how things have changed over the years. Because I remember being like a younger hockey player and coach is saying, if you don't want to ice it, just shoot it over the glass. Because at least, you know, we'll get a change. But like now that you can't just make it so that you can't change on either, right? You don't need to make it a penalty. But now you got your guys stuck on the ice at least.

Maybe that's a fair enough penalty. Imagine explaining to a new fan. that, okay, if you shoot the puck and it goes over the glass there, that's two minutes, no matter what, even if it's overtime, even if it's a five, I'm going to make it a five on three. That's two minutes. You shoot the puck down that way. It's kind of a penalty, but it's kind of not a penalty. And also, if you shoot the puck over the glass, but it goes over the bench, too, that's totally fine.

You know, like, imagine explaining this to people. Puck over glass is like in the down goes brown. You guys don't want to hear, right. say. You don't want to hear my radical rule change. Yes. Yes, we do. I don't know if you guys are ready for this. Three on three overtime, no offsides, no blue lines. Just let it fly, baby. Love it. You know what? Maybe that solves the problem that the other thing that the GMs are talking about, which is not, they're not going to change. But it feels like we're at a tipping point where everyone is sick of these regroups that keep happening. And maybe that's, that's how you do it. My whole stance on three, like, my like overriding view on three on three is that it's enough of a joke and it's far enough removed from normal hockey where you might as well just lean into the carnival game aspect of it. So it's like, yeah, fine, throw off sides out there. Like you're not allowed to make change.

Like whatever. Just no changes. How about that? You got to have the same. Like that's not. Like we're already at a gimmicky stage. I think anyways. Like we're playing three on three.

I think it's great. I love it. It's entertaining. But it is a gimmick. Let's call it for what it is. right the game's played at five on five we went to four on four now we're at three on three like what's stopping us from just saying there's no off sides i don't know and and if there's a penalty three on two forget this going back to four on three let's let's really embrace the chaos

let's get crazy yeah three on two two two on ones i don't care let's uh let's go beer league style yeah get a penalty in overtime guy gets a penalty shot but everyone gets to chase him from the blue line love it two on one contest and send the shootout to after overtime too we had that we had that in our where somebody said get rid of the shootout

instead of being breakaways it's a two on one that is to me so much better I would love to see two on one shootouts but I do love the idea of the penalty show I could just picture like because Nets off getting caught by like the entire team before even gets to the blue line

as he said yeah exactly we did we did if if you you're chasing the guy. So you take the penalty in overtime. The guy gets the penalty shot. Everyone's chasing. If someone gets a false start on the blue line, they're eliminated from the chase now.

So they got one less guy chasing. In order to know if it's a false start, you'd have to have a replay review. So what we do is we grind it to a halt. Everybody gets to review. Here's my one rule that I want to make. I understand with puck over glass that we're never going to get rid of it. And I will say 10 years ago,

I wrote a piece on, on Grantland where I said this is the worst rule in sports. It is completely stupid. I've come back off that a little bit. I've had a few people sit me down and go, look. At the very least, it makes the defenseman think twice before they do the, you know, just try to chip it off the glass. Maybe, which I'm always kind of like, yeah, because that play has really been eliminated from the NHL. You don't see that 50 times a game.

Like, you know, we still do. Here's my one request. Keep it. Keep puck over glass. keep it a two minute penalty. But if the puck goes over the glass and the other team starts waving their arms around, going the puck went over the glass,

Mr. Ref, that's two minutes too. You get them on two minutes. Don't put your arms down. With this like teacher you forgot to assign the homework energy. You're just going to get all the Italians penalties. All the Italians in the league are you going to have them in the penalty box.

What are you doing with us? Because then what would happen is the latest. This is the latest example on this podcast of anti-Italian discrimination. Yeah. One guy would put his arm up to go, oh, ref, look, it's, you know, because it's always like, have you ever seen a ref go like, yeah, thanks, man, I forgot the rule. I thank you for reminding me.

One guy would put his arm up. And then the other team would go, well, that guy put his arm up and they'd start waving their arms. Eventually, you'll wipe out everybody on the ice is in the penalty box. We would break the Flyer Senator's penalty minute record in the first period of the first game. And we'd have, we'd basically have goalies on goalies for the rest of the period. And to me, that wouldn't be any dumber than the way that we'd do it now. I think we just did the GM meetings here.

Like, I think we solved everything. Just like how I think I solved the Yager Bumblehead situation, it has to be Christopher Maltesanti. No, like, it has to be from the Sopranos. Like, that's all he does. They jack things off trucks. Like it's Armani suits, it's rare Pokemon cards. Now it's Yager bobbleheads.

I think that's got to be it. It was Vespas one time. It was like Vespa scooters. That was another big one. Pokemon cards. We cracked the code. There we go. All right.

Someone mentioned Kuznetsov there. And as producer Jeff said at the start of the segment when we were talking, I believe his shootout attempt has he's made it to the paint. He is at the goalie. The world's the world's slowest, slowest shootout attempt last night against the Leafs. He's got five points in seven games. Adds just a different element, I think,

especially to their second line, right? They needed some kind of skilled dude playing behind Aho there. What do we think him so far? I know everyone watched him last night. Like, what's the early return on him for you guys? Low risk, high reward, if you want to call it that, like high ceiling offensively for that team, which they desperately need.

I love the move. And I think Justin Williams had a big part in that because they played together in Washington, right? So that makes sense because he's still involved with that team. But Carolina, as far as all the teams that were looking to address needs, they've got to be at or near the top of the list as far as what they did because Kuznetsov gives them a playmaker dynamic when he's at his best, one of the better playmakers in the NHL when he was really at his best.

And Jake Gensel, who's a pure goal score, but not just a pure goal score, like a playoff, big time playoff performer. I just think they really changed the dynamic of their team in watching them last year get eliminated. It's like offense was so hard to come by for them. Like for them to generate one goal, it felt like, man, they got to play in the offensive zone for a long time. And it's not easy to do that in the playoffs.

So, you know, they've, I think they are taking a risk in a way, but I think the benefit is going to be much higher because it looks like he's he's motivated and he's found a half a step and it kind of looks like he's found a purpose. Like I think that's one of the biggest things like, you know, maybe he felt like there wasn't as much purpose in Washington, you know, for him anymore. And now he's, you know, he seems like he's revitalized in that, in that regard. Eight points for Gensel, too, by the way.

So like, yeah, it's working so far. Yeah. I feel like I was one of the only ones who didn't love the Cousinets of trade. And I saw a lot of people refer to it. I think you just use the term as like the low risk high reward. And my feeling was, I'm not sure it is low risk because they gave up a third round pick, which is not nothing. I mean, that's an asset, especially at deadline time where, you know, you, that can turn

into a player down the line or can turn into some other move that you make. You know, it wasn't, it wasn't a freebie. And I was looking at it going, man, there is a non-zero chance that they just got themselves a lemon here. that he's going to be a guy he's going to come in, he's not going to fit, he could be a distraction,

he could be a negative, and if he does, you're on the hook, even with the 50% retention, you're on the hook for three or four million next year. That feels, that felt risky to me. But the upside,

the ceiling was what made it worth doing. I think even Carolina understood that, hey, we might be, you know, we're taking a big swing here. We might swing and miss, but if we connect,

we might really have something. And then you got to, second line center for $4 million that is, that's an excellent value. It sure looks like that's what they got. And that's the thing about going to a team like Carolina, where you just kind of slide in. You just have to do what you do well.

No one's going to ask you to do more than that because coaching staff has established the standards there as far as what the effort levels are, consistency and compete level and all that kind of stuff. So he's surrounded by a super competitive team that plays hard. And he even talked about it. He goes, now I'm on the other side of hell. And I get to see what this looks like. And maybe this is actually fun.

So I think that that kind of playful comment really kind of shows like how excited he is to be on a team that's already built really well around him. And now he's just got to do his thing. And, you know, he'll have to, he just has to follow suit. He just has to follow suit with what they're all about because everyone else is doing it around him. And we might get that playoff magic. in the first round. Welcome to the other side of hell, Carolina versus Washington.

First round. How awesome would that be? Yeah, that would be great. I just feel like if it wasn't going to work, we'd have seen it already too. Like, if he was going to come in

and if the buy-in wasn't going to be there and it was going to be some. There could be a honeymoon period though, right? The first time he doesn't backcheck and Rod yells at him or, you know, finds him eating a cupcake or whatever it is that gets you in trouble. I think Rod will be the kind of guy.

Like, I think Rod would be the kind of guy, like it might be a bad back check, like you just said. And he's just going to go up to him, pat him on the shoulder and be like, hey, bud, we don't do that here. You know what I mean? Like, you're better than that. Like, I think it'll be that kind of relationship, which I think will bode really well for both parties. Love it. Frankie, this is really good.

I'm glad we stumbled upon a recurring segment, which is, again, anti-attain discrimination. We'll be here to talk about that every other week on the other week. We'll find more examples. It's okay. They surround us every day. Thanks again, bud. Thanks, guys. All right, we're back.

Double header of sad news to hit the NHL coming out of the last couple days. Former enforcer Chris Simon died at 52. His family confirmed on Tuesday night that he died by suicide in a statement that they released to the media. From that statement, this is a quote from the family. The family strongly believes in witness firsthand that Chris struggled immensely from CTE, which unfortunately resulted in his death. In the other unfortunate, but in news, Constantine Coltsov, who was a first round pick by the penguins in the aughts, died in Miami. Police said that he jumped off a balcony there a couple days ago. He was 42 years old.

There's no easy way to talk about this stuff, but it would be. unfair to let it pass Sean and I know Chris Simon in particular we'll start with him because he's a guy who we all watch

for a really long time he was a he was a force in the in the NHL for good and for ill I think over over a long long time yeah I mean I've I've I've written a bunch of times

about sort of my somewhat conflicted feelings on enforcers in the NHL like I grew up loving these guys I grew up in that era where we didn't we didn't put a lot of thought into what was happening long term to these guys. Those guys were my favorites.

And now yet another guy who filled that role, who's gone far too early and, you know, under circumstances that should have a lot of people asking some questions. And obviously, we've had these conversations over the years. Did not have them back then. Should have. but I guess the thing you say about Chris Simon is I mean this guy was a he was a tough guy he was an enforcer and he was scary when when he was quite you know quite possibly for for stretches the the scariest guy in the league as far as if he stepped out of line and the gloves came off Chris Simon could could do a lot of damage but he was also a hockey player this was

not a one-note guy. This was a guy who famously scored 29 goals one year. That was one of seven years that he hit double digits in goals, scored 144 goals over the course of his career. And this is a guy who played almost his entire career in the dead puck era. I mean, to score 20 goals in 1999, that was really something. It takes something. Yeah. So, I mean, he was, you know, a lot of these guys could play a little bit. And a lot of them were real good players, you know, coming up and then did what they needed to do to stick in the league. And, you know, Chris Simon would be a guy that would fall into into that category. But boy, he was, he was a guy back then. You certainly couldn't miss him on the ice. I mean, he was, he was one of those guys. He had the long hair. He was huge. You watched him the entire game. If he was, your team was playing against Chris Simon, you were watching him going,

I hope he doesn't score. But even more than that, I hope this isn't a night that somebody pokes the bear because he was, he was a force out there. You don't get 864 games played if you don't, if you don't have some troops. And look, he played that role. and he had took a couple of real big suspensions in his career, you know, we're not going to act like he was, you know, that he didn't, he didn't have his moments out there where he crossed lines, blue pass lines,

but he was a guy that could play. And now it's, we're, we're unfortunately in a, what feels like a very familiar situation with, with guys who were in that category, where we're kind of looking, around wondering what, you know, what, what, what was the story here, what got missed, what was done or not done to, to help and support somebody who may very well have needed it. Yeah, we're asking some of the same questions about Koltaf too. I mean, he's 42 years old.

He's a coach in the KHL. His, his girlfriend, Arena Sabalinka is an elite, like elite elite tennis player who's won a major. You know, it was a, I mean, it's a crazy thing to wake up to. I think that he's, understandably, he's not a name that rings a lot of bells for NHL fans at large because he's, yeah, he's a first round pick, but a little bit of a washout played parts of three seasons in Pittsburgh.

Those three seasons in Pittsburgh, for me, were like pound for pound. That was the most, the most I ever, the most NHL games I ever attended were over the course of those three years because I've said this before. The Penguins were horrendous. Tickets you could find them laying on the street. So we took advantage of it and went to tons and tons and tons of games. Coltub was a first round pick. He was one of the few guys who never played for them in the in the odds glory years, you know, with Tail and Lemieux. And he didn't make it to the to the Crosby years either. There was a few years there again where they were hurried. horrendous.

And, you know, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they're all right. And he was, you know, for better or worse part of that. The thing I remember about him, and this is not a joke is he's the fastest NHL player I've ever seen in my life. I've, I've never seen anybody skate faster than, than, than that dude. And he, he popped. He popped in a very real way. And that kind of skill set was why people thought that maybe he was going to be part of, you know, a set of good teams here, right? Like is you're like, oh, this dude, you were number 71. He was the last guy to wear it before Malkin. I mean, it was, he was a, he was a memorable dude, uh, in his, in, in his own way. And I was, I was sad, I was sad to see the news.

And again, there's, it's a total, it's a, it's a tragedy and the, and the, and the, police are involved. And it's, you know, it doesn't, doesn't seem like we're going to have any, any super easy answers all that quickly. Um, so yeah, it's been a, it's been a tough few days here. It's, it's a shame to see to. It feels like this stuff just happens in waves with this sport in general too, where it's like it tends to not be one. It seems like this stuff happens in groups. And it's always always always tragic to see.

So we're ending on a, we're ending on a low note. And that's a shame. But we will be back. We'll be back next week with just me and Sean. No Frank next week. Thank you folks for listening. Leave us a five-star rating and review. if that's your thing.

And tomorrow is Haley, Max, and me. Catch you then and talk to you soon.