The Athletic Hockey Show - Johnathan Huberdeau controversial Hart trophy credentials with Shayna Goldman, breaking down the Calgary Flames-Colorado Avalanche weekend tilt, Tim Peel goes off on Mark Scheifele, Multiple Choice Madness, and more

Episode Date: March 7, 2022

First, Ian and Hailey talk about the awesome clash of Stanley Cup contenders that took place over the weekend, with the Calgary Flames edging out the Colorado Avalanche 4-3 in overtime, and discuss how great a 7-game series between the two teams would be, and, in light of the Dallas Stars’ Jason Robertson’s back-to-back hat tricks, Ian poses the question: does the NHL need a Breakout Player of the Year award?Then, The Athletic’s own Shayna Goldman joins the show to discuss Johnathan Huberdeau’s controversial Hart trophy bona fides, if the New York Rangers are truly a Stanley Cup contender or not, and Chris Kreider’s incredible goal-scoring pace, the Minnesota Wild’s rollercoaster season, Mark Scheifele’s potential value if the Winnipeg Jets were to place him on the trade block, and former NHL referee Tim Peel’s Twitter comments about the Jets center, a listener’s theory about most goalies being pretty similar, and if she could take over as GM of one of the currently rebuilding franchises like the New Jersey Devils, Buffalo Sabres, Detroit Red Wings, or Ottawa Senators, who would she chose?Plus, to close things out, Ian and Hailey break down a couple of Multiple Choice Madness questions, including which NHLers amazing season should people be talking about more, and thoughts on the return of Reverse Retro jerseys next season.And, right now, you can get a 6 month subscription to The Athletic for just $1 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back, everybody. It is your Monday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. As always, it's Ian Mendez-Haley Salvean with you for the next hour or so. Coming up on this podcast, the awesome Shana Goldman is going to drop by. For a great conversation, we're going to talk about Jonathan Huberto and that controversial heart trophy stuff. Are the Rangers or the wild, are they legitimate Stanley Cup contenders? We've got some mailbag questions for Shana, so that's going to be a lot of fun. We'll talk about reverse retro jerseys coming back, some.

players have in sneaky good seasons, all of that coming up in the next hour or so. But we're going to kick it off with Haley coming in. And I would say, well, I guess technically you are coming in hot, but possibly because you have a fever. And you are, you're fighting through something here to get this podcast. This is my flu game. This is your Michael Jordan flu game. That happened to me once when I was. So I used to be the in arena host for the Oshoa generals before I started at the

athletic. It's where I met my best friend, Jessica, now works for the Canucks. But I remember I got so sick, but I was like, it's fine. I can do this. I had no voice. So I was walking around with my microphone in one hand, a tea in the other, and I'd be like saying all these things on the mic, and one of the fans ended up tweeting, like, this is at Haley Salvean's flu game. And I probably shouldn't have been there, but I, like, it kind of, you know, when you, you feel fine in the morning and then you go and start doing things and you go, oh, God, I have caught in something. And that's what happened. And so I'm like on the mic in this arena with like 9,000 people. Just like, that was a cough. It was horrific. So if anyone's wondering why I sound funny,

don't make fun of me. I'm not feeling well. And it's not COVID. I have. Well, exactly. But I was going to say that's the most pre-pandemic story ever. Right. Can you imagine going someone with a cough? I was coughing everywhere and I got it through. No, you're not allowed to do that now. But listen, I'm glad you said that it's, you know, hopefully, hopefully touch wood, not too serious.

But I know you're not feeling great. But I do think that, look, you've had a busy stretch and you're probably just a little bit run down. Yeah, I think that was my body's way of saying, hey, working 23 straight days, flying home and going right back on the flames beat was a. choice that you shouldn't have made. I was talking to my editor. I was like, I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. She's like, why are you apologizing? I didn't take enough vitamin C. It's my fault. I did this. She's like, no, no, just go to bed. Yeah. I tweeted yesterday that I watched the Twilight movies.

And they're so bad. You know what? Thankfully my kids never got into that, that Twilight theme. So I never, I was never exposed to them. But I think... Those were my target demographic.

Like I was the target demographic when they came out. Totally. And for the life of me, I can't understand why they were so popular. Because I watched them back and I tweeted like, they're better than I ever remembered. They're so bad. They're so bad. There's a CGI'd baby. But there was a period there were like, it was every...

Like, Twilight was everything. Team Edward, Team Jacob. Yeah. Crazy. I have a fever. Okay. We're going to get you to, you're going to get through this. But look, one thing I did want to talk to you about,

and I know you said you lamented the fact that you went right from crazy Olympic coverage into the Calgary Flames. But look, Calgary is just a legitimate Stanley Cup contender now. They proved it again on the weekend. And I got to tell you, so I watched a good chunk of Ottawa, Arizona, which was a 8-5 gong show, and I'm like, this is terrible hockey. Then I tuned in, I watched a good chunk of Vancouver, Toronto, and then I watched most of Calgary, Colorado.

And I'm like, inject this into my veins. Give me a seven-game series of this. It was awesome. So you walk us through because obviously you covered that game. You watched it. I know from afar, but you still watch that game and then you wrote about it. What are our takeaways here from a Clash of the Titans, Avs and Flames on the weekend?

You know, I think, to be honest, when we were going in the game, I really had no idea what to expect because both teams were coming off of losses and what you could call trap games. You know, the avalanche lost to Arizona, the flames lost to Montreal. And they were not good against Montreal. Like they did not deserve to get a point, but they did because. And I think, you know, a takeaway from that is that the flames can get a point in the standings. Even when they're on their B game, they're just that good right now. But, you know, you don't want to be putting up performances like that against anybody when you're trying to dial things.

in for the most important stretch of the season. And their schedule, by the way, is just crazy right now. They play five times this week. They play five games, including two back-to-backs. March, April, is going to be wild, and then they go right into the playoffs. So this stretch for the flames is going to get crazy. I wouldn't be shocked if there was a little dip as they start to get tired. But, you know, back to your question, that game was fast. And I think I noticed that when I watched the abs all the time is that the game is played at their speed. And that's what gives teams a lot of trouble. And I think the flames maybe last year would have been completely blown out of water. They could not play with pace last season whatsoever. They were a big dump and chase team. And there

was a lot of issues in terms of their skating ability last season. But this year, flames have shown that they have a much better, not just compete level, but an ability to play with pace. And I thought that they were matching up with the speed of Colorado decently well. I think the abs have this way of just destroying you in the neutral zone. A lot of their goals come off the rush because they're so quick and they can transition from defense to offense right away. And we saw that on two of their three goals. But, you know, I thought the first, school that they scored. And, you know, right off the bat, they go with Dan Vlodar, which a lot of people were surprised with. I was not because this is Daryl Sutter's hockey team and you learn

not to, like, you just don't be surprised, don't expect anything. It's a Daryl's team and he knows what he's doing kind of thing. And, you know, I remember talking to a former backup goalie and he told me, always look out for head coaches to start their backups in situations. that could be perceived as a scheduled loss. Because if the backup wins, they stood on their head and they won the game. If the backup loses, well, it's the schedule, and it was the backup, not our starter, and not our team. And so we saw Dan Vladar go in, steal the game.

He let in, you know, one goal in the first minute. But then, you know, minute 47 later, Elias Linholm ties it up. And then later in the period, the Colorado Avalanche go up 2-1, and then Elias Lin-Hom ties it up again. And it was just one of those games where it was back and forth and you had this early thought of like, oh God, or the flame's going to be able to keep up with this pace. And they did. They ended up taking the lead. Colorado ties it up.

The third period's deadlock three three. It was physical. It was tight. There was some hostility there. Specifically between Nikita Zedorov and Nathan McKinnon for a bit too. And I, if people, and you know, I don't like drumming up these narratives, but they talked about it on the broadcast. and I don't know if this is true, but they were talking about the

McKinnon doesn't eat in anything. Zedorov quote and McKinnon saying, like, I go to in and out sometimes. And people were kind of trying to drum up that drama a bit. But there was a lot there. I mean, that was sold as a heavyweight fight between the number one and two teams in the Western Conference. And it delivered.

And it was no shock that it was Elias Linholm getting it done in the, you know, in regulation. And he made this incredible play that I think kind of illustrates his selky, you know, trophy, I guess not watch. I don't even know what the right word is. I think a lot of people are really pushing for him to get some selky nods, even just some votes, some recognition, some respect in that aspect. He pushed Miko Ranton in off the puck after the abs had sustained pressure in the offensive

Zonin 3 on 3-O-T. It was like 30 seconds straight of just the abs in the ozone. And he pushes Miko Ranan off the puck. Heads up play, looks up ice, he sees Johnny Godreau, you know, neck and neck with Nathan McKinnon, knows that Goodrow has a step. He's quicker than Nathan. And he banks it off the boards up to Johnny. Johnny gets a step on McKinnon, and he goes one-on-one on the goalie and scores. And it was like, of course Johnny scores that because he, you know, he's become a much better breakaway player this year. And of course it was Linholm who made the defensive play in the really smart pass. And I think it just illustrated not just the skill and speed of Johnny, but the skill set, the defensive awareness in the hockey sense of Elias Linholm. And it was just a game

that I want seven more of in the playoffs. And for people who want more of it, they play again on Sunday and then they play again at the end of the month. So it was fun. And I think it was was a statement game for the flames to do it in Colorado even more so. I don't know. I just, I feel like I've been really impressed by what this hockey team's done. They're 15, no, they're 16, 3 and 1 in their last 20. After losing four straight and everyone freaking out about what's wrong with the flames, nothing. Knock on wood. It's a good hockey team with a good coach in that game was two powerhouses who we could absolutely see, you know, we've got to get there and you don't want to get ahead of yourself. But that would be an incredible playoff series.

Absolutely. I think Sutter's got that team going. You talk to people and they just remind you of the 2014 L.A. Kings. Like he's just got them going and they're all pulling on the same rope. And I'm sure Tyler Tifoldi can tell you all about that. Let me ask you one more thing. We're going to bring Shana Goldman in here in a second. Calgary, Colorado was a huge. story on the weekend. Jason Robertson back-to-back hat tricks was another big story. Let me ask you know, the NHL, Haley, has so many different awards all the time, right? For, you know, MVP and rookie of the year and best defensive for it, does the league need to have some sort of like breakout player of the year or like surprise player of the year? Why do you want so many awards?

I want more awards. I grew up, I thought your generation was the, everyone gets an award generation. I'm just handing them out everywhere, but do you think that there would be some merit into the, hey, I didn't see this coming surprise player breakout of the year? Because look, Robertson had a good year last year and got a little bit of low level

chatter for the Calder, but he's busted out and is probably headed for a 35 goal season this year. And I'd love to see some sort of, you know, breakout player of the year award or surprise player. You know what? And it could be sponsored by Kinder surprise. You know, the

little chocolate eggs. Maybe they don't have those in the United States, but they do Canada. I don't know. Maybe our producer Chris Flannery can tell us. Chris, do you have Kinder eggs? Kinder surprise eggs. Little chocolate eggs. With a little toy in the middle. With a toy that looks like it was made by the- Chris, report back. No, that doesn't, that's not ringing a bell to me now. Okay. So no, that's a real shame. That's a real shame. But I like the idea of a surprise player of the year. Breakout player. Yeah, like a most improved. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. A back player of the year.

It could always, but, yeah, like, I could see it because I always feel like, yeah, there's players who have a really good season. I'm trying to think of, like, what other awards are in different leagues. I know the NBA has, like, defensive player the year. MVP, the six man of the year. That's someone who comes out the bench. That's not like someone who's really improved. Does any league have that?

I feel like the WMBA has, what? because I think Kelsey Plum won comeback player or something like that because she tore apart her Achilles and came back and was unbelievable in the playoffs. Oh no, I think she got six women of the year. So I don't know. No league has it, and there's already so many awards.

You already want, I want one for the defense. I guess I shouldn't say you. I mean, sure. Yes. I don't have an objection. I just don't really feel strongly about it. Sure. You know what?

A lukewarm, a tepid response? Can the NHL afford another trophy right now? If they get a corporate. It's Ashon Shapiro. I don't know. I'm just kidding. Corporate sponsor like Kinder Surprise. Kinder Surprise.

They don't have it. So we'll have to figure something. The Kinder Surprise Player of the Year. Oh my God. Can you imagine? See? What were some of the divisions from last year? Oh my God.

The Mass Mutual East? The Mass Mutual East, the Central. The Discovery. Was there not, sorry, Discover, Discover Central? Was it the Scotia, Scotia Bank North division? So funny. Oh my God, yeah. Discover, yeah.

We already have helmet ads. Yeah, exactly, see. Kinder Surprise Player of the Year. Let's make it happen. Call Bill. Call Bill and Gary. All right, Haley. We're really excited to have our guest here on the pod today because Shana Goldman.

Let's find out. How many hats do you wear, by the way? Because I feel like I see you contributing all over the place. So like, let's, before we kind of delve into some topics this week, Shana, let's get your exact updated to the minute resume of what you got going on. Right. Well, I'm here full time. So that's nice.

And I write all different things here, fantasy, devils, national, whatever, which is fun. I write for Sportsnet using Sport Logic data. I sew things. I don't do it as much anymore, but I make a lot of scrunchies, and I was making, like, masks and things like that, but I've slowed it down a bit. And, yeah, I think that's a lot. It's a bit. It's a bit much.

Belated congratulations, by the way, on being full time here. I think it's great for the company and our subscribers because you do a lot, and it's all great stuff. So, congratulations. It's been a while. That's very late, but. Yeah. But you know what?

I will ask you one other question. You're very busy, but yet you find time for wrestling. Because I got to ask you about this. I'm not a wrestling. We got to get you on with Down Goes Brown because he is like Mr. Wrestling. He loves it. I think Haley's probably like me where I'm assuming Haley,

you have no idea of what's going on in wrestling. Okay. Let's talk about where you fell in love, Shana, with wrestling. How did this happen? So I worked for Disney for, years and they covered WWE events. So I would stream them in all different languages

and monitor the feeds. And wrestling was like the rare one. I mean, it was mainly hockey and baseball, but I did wrestling and my friends noticed I had the pay-per-views and were like, okay, we have to watch these. I had zero interest. So I went along with it. And then when AW came along, my friend would literally bring it over on a flash drive before they were on cable

and we're like, we have to watch these matches. Once they went on cable, every Wednesday they were at my house or every Wednesday we were at one of their houses and I just joined along. I didn't really care. Um, and if I wasn't there, I got a full summary from everyone. If I was late, I got a full summary of what I missed and would get asked a million questions. And then I got kind of interested in the business side of it because I'm a nerd. And, um, you know, now I'm having fun watching it. Like, why not? So like last night there was the pay-per-view on and, you know, everyone wanted to watch. So we had it on a projector in the

yard, freezing, watching it with, you know, hockey on one screen and the paperview on the other. And, You know, it's fun. Why not? It's hilarious. It's not, I've never gotten into it. I used to babysit a kid who was really into wrestling when I was like obviously a lot younger. And I remember he had like a temper tantrum and he like closed a door on my hand. So now I just associate wrestling with the really bratty kid. Yeah. Who hurt me. So you. You associate wrestling with needless violence. Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Hey, listen, I know that I know that. I know that. I know that. there would be a segment of our listeners who would probably love to pick your brain about wrestling, but the majority of us here want to hear about some hockey stuff with you, Shane. So I want to start with this because things got a little spicy last week when it came to the Jonathan Hubertoe heart trophy conversation with our palatom and Alan Walsh. Yeah, what happened?

Poor Dom. But I want to ask you a little bit, because if I'm not mistaken, I know you guys have kind of tease the fact that maybe there's something coming here with Jonathan Huberto and the Hart trophy odds, but where do you come down on this? Because obviously, it's a polarizing debate whether or not Jonathan Huberto deserves to get some merit, some consideration for the heart. I'm going to say he doesn't, like right off the bat. And I don't think that's a knock on who he is as a player. He's a fantastic player. You know, he's an elite offensive player. He's been good for years. I want to know where this energy was for Barkoff last

year when he should have been in the heart conversation and he wasn't. He was only in the selfie conversation. I think the thing is with the heart too. It's tricky. Like, are you the most valuable player to your team, there needs to be a good space between you and the next best player on the team. Barkoff's right there. F. Vlad's right there. Weigers right there. You can make the argument for really any of them then. Hebrador doesn't go against top competition all the time. It's Barcoff's line that does. They have two scoring lines. Like everything about that's great. It makes for a good contender. It doesn't make for a heart candidate. The other side of it is his defensive play. Now, we are a little bit perplexed on this. Is he bad defensively? Does he

just have, you know, is it just by the numbers it looks wrong? So we're going to watch all the shifts to try to figure it out. And, you know, because that's the whole thing. I think the biggest misconception is we're just looking at the numbers and making a bold statement. We're not. You know, you find the numbers. It sparks a question. And now you look at the video to answer it. But right now, by, if you ignore that defensive conversation, which should be, you know, right there because you can't be the most valuable player to your team only on 100 feet of the ice. There's another half you have to consider. And that's, by, you know, strikes against Leandro Seidel a couple years ago when he was disastrous

defensively. If you're a great enough offensive player, you don't have those poor defensive metrics because play is never in your own zone. So we want to see where that breakdown is, but even if you ignore that conversation about his defense, he still isn't the most valuable player. Ian and I had a similar conversation last week, and it wasn't so much about like Jonathan Huberto, but it was like, why do certain positions sometimes not get any love for the heart? And it's like, well, because usually that player, like, whether it's a defender or goalie, they're just not the best player on their team. You know, they can be elite in that position, but they're not the guy on their team

that's carrying them to that space. I'm curious, though, because when we look at Dom's, you know, look at the Hart Trophy Race, there are a few teams who have multiple players from that team on there. So what's the differentiation point between Hubert-O not being the guy on the Panthers and the entire flames top line being in Hart Trophy consideration, or I believe it's Miko Ranton and Nathan McKinnon who are on there as well. Or maybe it's Nazam-Codry. I don't have a right in front of me.

It's cadre. It's Codry on that. What's that kind of differentiation point? I'm curious. Is it just those pieces are so good together that they just drive the bus so they are in consideration? Yeah, that's a tough call. And I think it comes down to like voter preference.

It's the same thing with like the Norris conversation. you could look at Cali-McCarr and go, well, he has a Norris caliber defenseman on his side and Devon Tave. Should they both be in the conversation? Should one? Should neither? I have a tough time with the Flames top line because I think they've all been fantastic. If you want to single out one player, it's probably Johnny Goodrow, rightfully so.

But all three of them are so valuable that I don't know if any truly belong in the race. And I think that's why you see the two really rising to the top are Matthews, who yes, he has Mitch Marner, but he's been the more valuable player by a mile on that team. And Igor Shosturkin, who is doing a lot. at all. That would be where my attention would go with Rantanin. I do think he gets a lot of credit because, you know, they didn't have McKinnon for a while. And he doesn't play with Cadry at five on five, but you could still make the argument that it can't be both, you know, maybe if they were a one forward one defenseman, you could try to like force it a little bit. But I just think if you're

talking most viable player, there needs to be that, that significant gap between the best player and the second best player because, you know, and they're the most valuable. You know, like you said, they drive the best together. It should be the one standout player who's literally dragging their team through it. And, you know,

I think the team that's going to be interesting is Dallas. If they make the playoffs, Jake Ottinger could be in that conversation. He's not going to come close to Shestirk, and though, so that's going to be a knock against him. Maybe Jason Robertson does it. But then you could look at it and go, is it Robertson or is it Behans, Robertson,

and Pavelsky all together. Yeah. It's such a fascinating conversation. And this year feels like the most wide open heart trophy race that we've seen, or at least it feels like it, in a long time. I want to go back to something you said about Jonathan Hubrado and that you and Dom were going to watch all of his shifts. And so maybe take our listeners through like, how does that even work?

Do you just go through every Panthers game, get the NHL.com and look at his ice time and his shifts. Do you split it up? Like walk us through that. That's pretty fascinating to me. I will jump in here too and just say that I have done this before. And I feel like Shane and I are similar in this sense that it's like really fun. Yeah. Just to like go back.

I don't know what service you use, but you just go back and you have like a system and it just plays all the shifts and it has like a clip of all them. You can pick certain games. Yeah. I love doing that. Where they start in the shift. You can choose. Do you want expensive zone shifts? Do you want it where it results in a shot on goal at the end?

So we have help in that regard, thankfully, because before that it literally was going on NH dot com and trying to figure it out. And like my method before we had access to better technologies to help us do it was looking through their games and maybe looking at like their best game in terms of like expected goal differential, looking at the best and the worst and then trying to find all their shifts from there and just watching them through, you know, oh, every even strength shift or every penalty kill, you know, I think when you do something in a special team, say you're doing something on the penalty kill. It's a little easier to go through and be like, we're going to watch every single penalty kill. And if the team's good, you're watching all two minutes of it.

If the team's not good, you know, it's a little quicker. you could be watching 10 seconds of it and move on to the next. For this, we're splitting it up. We are working out a plan on how we want to do this. I think we're going to look at who his opponents were per game and try to go that way, too. Like when he goes against top competition, how does he look? For the Panthers specifically, it's a little interesting because they were not winning on the road for a while this season. They turned it around now, but it's going to be a little intriguing to see what happens when you don't have that home ice, you know, advantage when you don't have last change because that might be.

what changes, how often a player starts at the faceoff stop versus an on-the-fly shift. So there's like a bunch of considerations there. But yeah, you just watch a ton of video take notes. For me, I'm constantly clipping video. Like with the Nora's story, I wanted to do a little mixtape of Jacob Slavin on the penalty kill. Every good play I'm sitting there, just clipping it immediately, throwing it into a folder, and then you edit it all together at the end.

It's so much fun. It sounds like a lot, but I love doing that. I did it for a story on Johnny Goddrow last year. trying to look at, you know, what went wrong for him in the season that was really poor. And so I just went back and watched like every shift. And I was new on the beat too. And so I found that a really valuable thing to do because it's like, well, I didn't, I watched the flames, but I didn't see every game. So I just sat there, set it up on my TV and just like watched every shift that Johnny Godro played in 2018, 19.

And it was 2019-20. And it was really fun. It's a very nerdy, fun thing to do. It's the best way to learn, though. Oh, yeah. And I think it's important, like, these kind of peel back the curtain things, because I think it's such a lazy take that, you know, Dom and you just look at numbers in spreadsheets that is not true. Nobody's ever arguing that the numbers are more important than the eye test. It is both. Yeah, we're just biased. You know, we're, I think. One of the more like polarizing players for New York was Neil Pionk.

He had highlight real plays constantly. And you were like, he must be a great offensive driver. The numbers, that he wasn't. And even me thinking about him, like, I've seen bad defensive plays, but I feel like he must drive play. You know, I'm watching him all the time. I feel like he must drive play. And then, you know, the numbers help you form a question and that's what you look

to answer. You can't go into it with like a narrative in mind. Like we're not going to look at it and go, well, Jonathan Hubert was bad defensively. We want to know what's going wrong. That's our question, not. let's find this to fit what we want. And that's like the huge difference there. But yeah, that's the biggest thing.

Like, we're biased. We, we notice the flashy plays. We notice the terrible plays. And the numbers can help that gut check. Or maybe a player's not doing something super spectacular. This is what's going to help you figure out what they're doing. And maybe should you see it in a larger sample? Like, do you want to see them play a little bit more?

Should that third line or go to the first line? Like questions like that, it helps answer. You know, so I got a question for you along those lines. kind of, you know, and I think it's a very polarizing question. Are the New York Rangers a Stanley Cup contender? Yes or no? They're a playoff team. Their playoff team.

I think that there's contender potential. I think that your goaltender is the most important player on the ice. And that's why it's like a little ironic that that player can't be in the heart conversation as often as they should be. Just Erkins keeping them in a lot of games. But they do have the game-changing talent to turn a lot of. game on its head in minutes. You know, I know one that stands out. They played Seattle earlier this season and their goaltender kept the minute. And in the third period, Adam Fox makes an

incredible play to Artemi Panarin and just like that, the game's tied two seconds later. That, you know, that duo's at it again. And Chris Kreider, they're in the lead. They win the game. You need to have that game changing talent. They finally do. You need to have elite goaltending if you're not going to be strong elsewhere. They have that. They just need a couple more pieces to really solidify themselves as a contender. And normally a rebuilding team, that's turning it around to their first year as a playoff team, they shouldn't go for it. But when you look at how things are going their way, you know, and some of their players are in the primes of their careers, it should inspire them to go for it now and make the moves

without going too all in that it screws them in, you know, two years. What kind of season is Chris Kreider having right now? His season's unreal. This is a player that everybody has picked on his entire career for consistency reasons. and, you know, if he's not scoring, he looks invisible and things like that. And then he signed a contract that was a little expensive at the time, but it was fine because you thought the cap was going up. And then a month later, everything goes wrong.

And then there's a flat cap within months. And obviously it changes everything. But here he is playing his best hockey. Does he pass the puck very often? No. Does he step his teammates very often? No. And that obviously hurts Savannah's game a bit.

And you could see that when he wasn't scoring earlier in the season, because the playmaker they generally had on that line was gone and Pavel Buchennevich, and they tried replacing him with like Park League of Drow and Dredden Hunt. But Kreider's doing a little bit of everything. He is like this combination of speed, skills, strength, and size, which is what every general manager wants. He can streak down the wing and score goals. He can stand in front of that net front and just plant himself out there.

And he has the hand-eye coordination to deflect pucks and tip them in. And he's been doing that on the power play. It's the most noticeable part of his scoring is on the power play. and, you know, their man advantage, they generally lean on their top unit. They're one of the more frequent shooting teams in the league on the power play, which huge strides from years past. So he's getting those set up opportunities to just tip pucks in, and it's obviously clicking for him.

But, you know, he can beat you multiple ways, and that's what makes him so dangerous. You know, I find, like, your answers and your insight on the Rangers are fascinating because to me, those are the teams that I'm really interested in. I don't need to know. I know Carolina's legit and Tampa's legit and all that. it's these teams that are kind of, they're headed to the playoffs, but you don't know how they're going to do that it's interesting.

And another team that kind of falls into that realm that I, I'm having a hard time making out what they are as the Minnesota Wild. And I'm curious what you think about them because they have certainly ridden some highs. And at one point, I think they were in the conversation of, hey, are they elite? They've kind of come crashing back down to Earth. And as we sit here two weeks out of the trade deadline, what are we supposed to make in the Minnesota Wild? Their goaltending is killing them.

It's literally wild. Cam Talbot? Yeah. So the thing with it was like Talbot was trending up earlier in the season. Then he got hurt and Kapokkman took over a net and he played really well. They were going every other start for a bit there. And I don't even think that was an intentional rotation. It just worked out that way.

But then you could kind of see the goalie's trending opposite waves and they still leaned on Talbot a little bit more. Then he started struggling. His game has, you know, absolutely fallen off from where they needed to be. but even Cochanan's not playing well recently. So do they go for a goaltender? I'm not sure. Do they try to figure out a better rotation and just see what's going wrong? Like, this is a team that generally has one of the best defensive structures in the league.

They don't allow how many quality chances. So they keep it pretty easy for their goaltenders, like relative to other teams. And they finally had the scoring that they've been missing. They have three good, really good lines. You have the Felino line that is outstanding defensively and can create havoc in front. Zuccarello line with Caprisoff and Hartman. and, you know, has been one of their best all year, but you could see some of the cracks there and some of them were with Hartman,

who was the weakest link of the line. And then you have the boldie line. I mean, it's funny. We're saying it's the boldie line because he's the rookie on it. But still, you know, he's the one that's making all click with Kevin Fiala. If they're going to go for it, this is the year to do it. You know, you don't know what's going to happen with Fiala this offseason. They have a cap crunch because of those buyouts.

Like, they need to figure it out this year to have their best chance. And they need to see if it's just goaltending or what they can do to really help. you know, center their goalies games. It's been funny because the Wild were in Calgary and then they did the home and home with the flames, and Calgary won both games by four goal margins. And it was, I think it's funny, and this is, I guess, kind of how fan bases are sometimes, to see the kind of, that there's still this, like, relative, not scared of what's going to happen, but I think fans are always just still skeptical when you feel like you've been burned by a team

so often. but then it's funny to read Rousseau's take on the Calgary Flames and Wild fans' takes on the flames after those two games. And I think one of the things Rousseau put in his story was the wild, it was like the flames are looking like they're gearing up for a really long playoff series. And the wild don't look like they're about to do that anymore. Like in this last couple weeks, the kind of mindset and view on the Minnesota Wild has really started to drop. And I don't know if that's just like a, like stuff like this happens over the

course of an 82 game season, but this stretch has gone on a little bit long. I think seven losses in their last nine games. So I wonder if they're going to be able to turn that around and not just turn, you know, the fans favor, but the tides and the standings because I mean, we got two months left, but it's going to go by fast. Yeah. The one positive for them is that it's happening now, which might sound a little bit weird, but if you're going to make a change, going to do it soon. So the, well, the one tricky part with that is then you could be too reactionary. But the other part with it is you have this time to figure it out. And like, the flames going for Tofoli as early as they did is interesting because they didn't want that

adjustment period either. You know, they could have traded for him sooner closer to the deadline. Players don't have enough time to like click with their team and you figure it out. And especially when you're going for a rental, like that doesn't give you enough time to really figure it out for the playoffs. Obviously he's not, but they're figuring out everything sooner. And like you said, that can help them gear up for the playoff sooner. But the wild have to figure it out, then decide what they're going to do at the deadline, and then adjust from there too. So like, you know, what was already a challenge for them just got even tougher.

You know, Shane, I got some questions for, I threw out on Twitter that you were popping by the podcast and it got some, a couple of questions here to ask you from people on social media. Matt has a question here. And I know that one of the things you've done in the last few months is, you know, as you go around the trade deadline, you're trying to assess what players mark. market value might be and things of that nature. Matt, I believe, is a Winnipeg Jets fan. And obviously it looks like the Jets are kind of slowly raising the white flag on this season.

And Matt's wondering if what do you think Mark Shifley's value would be? If Winnipeg puts him out there, Shifley we should point out for our listeners, there's two more years left out on his deal after this one at a pretty good cap hit. It's just over $6 million. 6.125, I believe, is the cap number on Shifley. So, listen, if he's healthy and productive, that's a pretty good number for a guy that can potentially be your number one sentiment. But Matt wants to know, what could the Winnipeg Jets theoretically get if they put Mark Shifley on the market?

So the fact that he's not a rental works in his favor, the fact that his market value is pretty in line with his salary, according to Dom's model. I think there's like a $300,000 difference, which is really good. You know, usually we see it's huge gaps one way or the other. And I would imagine, you know, you can get a lot of future assets. You can probably get young NHL caliber talent. The one takeaway from Stripley is his defensive game.

So you need to be on the team that can weather that because his defense is pretty poor. It's something that I think has been talked about a lot these last couple seasons. It would be so spicy, though, if the Jets would move him. But I really like that. I think the smartest thing a team can do is look at themselves and go, we're legitimately not a good enough team to get past the first round in the playoffs. Like, we need to wave the white flag and you make a bold move for a big, return instead of moving smaller pieces and then having to fill those holes. Obviously,

moving a first line center is huge if you don't have replacements that you feel like you can just slot right in there. But that's going to get you one of the biggest returns and stop you from having to really break apart your core. So if you could make a move like that, step back, reassess and try again for the next year, that could be one of the smartest things you can do. You look at St. Louis the year before they won, they were like, we're not good enough. They traded Stasney, got a couple of future assets. And then they were able to use those that offseason. and to make their team even better, you know, because when you contend for so long, you lose all those future assets.

So the Jets have always been about patience. This would be the complete opposite of that, but it could have some interesting long-term ramifications, especially if they feel like the fact that he's really good on one side of the ice is the knock against keeping him long term. You know, I got to ask both of you this question because Matt asked about Mark Schifley. What did both of you think? former NHL referee Tim Peel, who's now rather outspoken on social media, tweeted out last week after Schifley fought Chris Weidman,

and that of course was on the heels of everything that happened last year with Jake Evans, and that hit. Tim Peel tweets out, zero respect for Mark Schifley. What he did that Jake Evans last year was brutal. He has never had any respect for the officials either. Way to go, Chris Weidman. Much respect to you. What did you think, both of you, of a referee who's not really that far out of the game being this outspoken and saying,

Mark Sheafley has no respect for referees on the ice? Why not? Why not? Just, like, say what you think. I think in this league, we all look for, like, a little bit more drama. And, like, we get it in ways we don't want it. If we could get something, like, going on on the ice, you look at what goes on in other sports. And, like, the NHL is, like, here while everyone else is going.

you know, it's full chaos all the time. Like, if hockey could have a little more of that, that's great. Like, do you guys ever just look at what's happening in the NBA sometimes and be like, oh, my God? Yeah, and we're like, oh, wow. A player did something in hockey and we're like, this is huge. And everyone else would, like, roll their eyes at that. Like, it wouldn't even, like, you know, bring any attention to it in, like,

a regular day of their sport. I think it's kind of cool to see the transformation for Shifley into, he was such a well-liked player into like, you know, not just a villain, but now after that fight too, like trying to pump up the crowd, it's like this loser energy now that everyone's calling him out for. I just find it really funny. Like, it changes the whole perception of him. But why not speak out about a player?

A player would call out a rep any day of the week and say, they didn't agree with this caller. They knew they weren't going to get it from this one. Let the refs do it to the players too. I mean, that gives us a little better perspective of both sides and the argument. Yeah, I think that kind of stuff is interesting. I mean, I saw a lot of the replies and stuff to Tim Peel about, you know, the reasons why he is no longer employed. So obviously, you know, I'm sure there's people who take certain things the greatest salt considering the source.

But, I mean, I've heard actually a lot of really good things about Tim Peel over the years from players. But anyways, I agree with Shane. I think it's been interesting to see the change in the public perception of Mark Schifley. like he used to be this kind of like he always had the potential to be maybe greater than he's become. And I think maybe that's part of what's catching up to him is it's just like, okay, well, is he the guy who can do it in Winnipeg? Because they haven't. Now he's doing all this other stuff. And he's kind of started to take on, yeah, like I don't even know if villains's a right word for it.

But he's just not the like shiny poster boy in, you know, small city Winnipeg. anymore. And I thought that, I think he was pumping up the crowd as like a joke because Logan Stanley did it after he lost a fight. But it still was just like, ugh. Ooh, it's a little cringe. Yeah, you can definitely be funny with that, like losing a fight. But coming from him, it was just like, I don't know.

Okay. Yeah. Let's move on. Felt a little forced. Got another question here for you. Shana, this one from, again on Twitter, from Patrick McConnell, who says, hey, I've got a theory that most NHL goleys are actually pretty similar in terms of how good they are. I think there's maybe five elite goleys, five not so good goalies,

and there's not much separation between the rest of them. Is there some truth to my theory? That's from Patrick. Goaltending is tricky. It's the position that I think everybody knows the least about, but they're definitely, you know, elite goalies around the league, really terrible goalies in the league, and a lot of in between. But I think that we need to consider, we need to find a way to level the playing field a little bit better than we do maybe.

And like, yes, we use expected goals for that. We can use high dangerous shot, shot volume. But until we get a better way of really assessing goalies plays and how to level that playing field of different team styles, it's tough to say. but I think that there are a lot more average goalies in the league than maybe we really consider that there are. But it also could be like, you know, goaltending is the position where you could have this incredible season and the next year have like a godawful year. Like what other position do you see that, you know, up and down as much as goaltending? You look at Sergey Barovsky right now.

He's like the perfect example of that or Frederick Anderson. And the last years in Toronto, like he should have been better Anderson. You could absolutely make the argument for or, you know, Bobrovsky shouldn't. have had as bad of a year last year as he did in Florida because they're really a two-way team. So once we get better learning about goaltending, I think we can spot those differences a little bit better. But until then, yeah, like it does make sense if we're looking at it going, well, here's the top, here's the bottom, and everybody just fits in between. Before we let you go, Haley and I wrap up our show with a little multiple choice segment.

I got one multiple choice question for you, Shana, before we let you go. we're going to let you take over as general manager for one of these rebuilding teams in the Eastern Conference. I want to know if you could take over one of these teams that are kind of, you know, they've been down in the dumps and now they're hoping to kind of rise from the ashes. Where are you taken? Which job are you taking? Your options are A, the New Jersey Devils,

B, the Ottawa Senators, C, the Detroit Red Wings, or D, the Buffalo Sabres. Devils, Senators, Red Wings, Sabers. You get to get in there based on the talent and all the factors that go into it, whose rebuild would you want to inherit? I think I'm going to go Detroit. It would be close between Detroit and New Jersey because I think New Jersey is further along and we don't recognize it because their goaltending holds them out of games constantly. But I think Detroit has a lot of good prospects.

I think they've done a really good job at like collecting those assets last couple of years and getting out of some of their bad contracts. I think that they have a lot of high in talent. And they have a lot of good players, you know, in their primes right now, like Dylan Larkin, who would intrigue me. But to have players like Cider and Raymond as your foundational pieces, I think that's exciting. And I like the direction they went with so many of their prospects.

Like, I just think that there's something there with Detroit. I love that they actually, you know, tore it down and went for it. And I think that Arsman's done a good job so far. So to pick up the pieces of where he leaves off, I think puts you in a very good position to succeed. And I think this year we're seeing like they're a better team than we can give them, you know, maybe some would give them credit for. They're not even at the bottom of the standings. Like they've been, there's definitely some progress there. So I'd probably go with them, but I do think that the devils have some great pieces too to look at. But they have their core kind

of paid for. So that limits what you can do. And I think you have a little bit more freedom with the Red Wings. I agree. That's always my favorite. Whenever Dom comes on, Sometimes he'll just say something really good. And I just nod. Yes. I agree. I concur. I concur.

Yes. It's like what Shane has said. Catch me if you can. Yeah, I concur. I concur. Okay. Shana, this was awesome. Hey, thanks for dropping by.

This was the half hour just blew by here. Appreciate this. And we got to give you a platform. You mentioned, you just kind of casually mentioned that you got this side hustle of a scrunchy business. Maybe some of our listeners would like to order some Shana scrunchies here. Yeah. I mean, like, you might think that scrunchies are a little to 80 or 90s, but they're back.

They are where it's at. Obviously, everyone likes claw clips and quill clips are great and wonderful until you lean back on a chair. Scrunchies, you don't have that problem. Or if you have a lot of hair. They have big ones. I have, like, very thick hair. And yeah, they have, like, big ones you can use two or something. And they're great for, like, volume and whatever.

But, like, I like scrunchies because when you're done with it, you pop it on your wrist. And you have, like, a comfortable bracelet. So you can get, like, satin ones, which help you decrease the, you know, creases in your hair. or Velvet or any NHL team because who among us doesn't want to have a Hartford Whalers or a Minnesota North Star Scrunchy on their rest all the time. Do you have any Baby Yoda scrunchies? I do. I have flannel and cotton now.

And I have a rainbow Star Wars one. Yeah. Amazing. This is great. Wait, so if any listener here wants to order some scrunchies, what do they do? Oh, yeah. They can go to my Twitter account and it's linked right there or you go on Etsy and search hey shee with three wise on each part of it because it's high school name that i've yeah how old were you

when you made that um i think i was in like 11th grade and like the trend then was like high in your name like hello whatever hi hi and like everyone would go to me and be like hey she so i was like oh how clever and the three wise uh i should have very early on just gone one and one and it would have looked better but you know it's too late being like 16 17 years old have to go for yeah it's a little much and it's So here I am. My first email account, I don't even think I should say it on this platform. Oh, no, you're going to say it right now. Was Peka Salvean, like Pikachu.

Oh, my God, like Pikachu. At AOL.com. My first is Shave Blue 26 that my dad and my sister made for me. And then my sister made me SH Fashion Kid 2001. And that's what I went with for a while because I wanted to be a fashion designer. Oh, I love it. Pekosalvian at AOL.com. I like this.

You know what? We should do a segment on, next time we have guests on, like, what was your original email address or? It's so funny. It's like your name screen name. Like,

what was it? Yeah. Nobody judged me. I was like, freaking 10 years old or something. I don't even know how old I was. It was an AOL address. So let's just.

Yeah, exactly. That just, that says it all. But hey, Shana, this was a ton of fun. Thanks for,

thanks for dropping by. We always look forward to all of your coverage on the athletic. So thanks for this and hopefully we'll connect with you again down the road. Yeah, thanks for having me. All right, Haley, that was a ton of fun. I'd like to think that you're going to be ordering a baby Yoda scrunchy. Absolutely. From Shayna here. I was actually already pulled up her Etsy shop.

Possibly a Hartford player's one too. I love scrunchies. I'm so glad they're back in. I love them. Yeah. This is what we needed. It's not in my realm, but, but maybe I should be ordering them for the women in my life. I should be ordering some scrunchies. Absolutely.

From Shana. All right. Hey, listen, I asked Shana on multiple choice question there. She took Detroit and New Jersey kind of on the teams that she would pick and rebuild. I want to wrap up our show with a couple of multiple choice questions. And I think this first one is interesting to me because there's been, look, there's been a lot of talk about guys having great years, right? Johnny Gudrow and Nazim Kodry and people just have an unbelievable individual seasons. But I want to ask you, I'm going to give you four names here of players that I think are having

great ears that quite frankly not enough people are talking about. So here we go, Haley. Who's having the best season right now in early March that more people should be talking about? Is it A. Jason Robertson, B, Sebastian Ajo, C. Roman Yosi or D. Jake Gensel of the Pittsburgh Penguins? Haley, who should we be given a little bit more love to Robertson, Aho, Yosi, or Gensel? I think it's a tough one. And first, I just want to say, like, do people actually not pay attention to the cane still? Or is that just like the, the, like, cool, hip narrative about the Carolina Hurricane still?

Like, I'm genuinely curious. No, I still think people kind of ignore them a little bit, don't you? I don't know. It just seems like there's, I don't know. Like, I feel like I hear about them. Maybe it's because I read and I read Saracivian and I listen to things where people talk about the canes. Like, the canes are also just good. Like, we don't talk about the Tampa Bay Lightning all the time because Tampa's just good.

It's kind of like what you said to Shane earlier. It's like, ah, we know Tampa's good and we know blah blah's good. But, like, it's cool and interesting to talk about the Rangers because they've got all this going on. So I wonder if it's part of that that's going on. I think everyone's just accepted that the canes are one of the top five teams in the NHL. So I don't know if we can say that Aho is kind of being ignored. But again, I don't know. Like, I'm genuinely curious.

I'm sure Keynes fans probably feel differently. But I think in terms of someone we're not really talking about, I feel like people don't really talk about Jason Robertson enough. He had those back-to-back hat tricks, which is really impressive. But I've got to say Romagnosie. I mean, 59. points. He's over a point per game player right now. He's like top 20 in the league in scoring in terms of overall points. Like, you know, everyone's talking about Kail Makar getting to 60.

And Kail Makar is so, so impressive. But you wouldn't know that Roman Yose has 59 points based on how much people are like fawning over the fact that Kail Makar hit 60 points. The age is different. It's a better team, et cetera. But does that not make what Romaniosi is doing like a little bit more impressive given, you know, the Preds have had these big swings in momentum this season. They've either been, you know, what are they going to be? Is this going to be a, you know, are they going to tear it down? Is Philip Forsberg going to be on the block? But, you know, they're in a playoff spot right now. They're, you know, playing, they kind of had a dip, but they're still in a spot. And Roman Yossi's like, been a big part of that. I mean, again,

59 points in 53 games, top 20 in the league and scoring. I don't think we're talking about him enough. I could not agree with you more. Like, if you told me that he was naked, like he's producing at the same rate as Kail McCar. And he's playing the exact same amount of ice time. Like they're playing the same amount of time. And yet when you hear the Norris conversation,

at least it feels like nationally, I don't feel like I'm hearing enough about Romaniosi. And I feel like it's our job to kind of maybe highlight to people, Roman Yossi has 59 points. Kail McCar has 60. Like, there's not a huge separation there. And you're right.

We both play about 25 minutes a game. Yeah, they're playing about the same amount of time. I think McCar's probably surrounded by better talent that, like you said, probably makes what Yose is doing even more impressive. But, hey, let's give a little bit more love to Roman Yose here, because I think the president's definitely deserves a little bit of love. Let me ask you this to, oh, yeah. I'm sorry, Ian.

Like, can we just talk about how interesting the Pacific Division playoff races right now? It's unreal. It's unreal. Like, it's so fun. You know, last week I was looking at if the playoffs started now, the flames would be playing the Preds in the first round. And then either, like, Vegas or Edmonton in the second. It's like, L.A. was second in the division. Like, the Canucks are now four points back of Edmonton.

I don't have those standings right in front of me. But it's, it's, for everything we've been talking about, like, certain. Certain divisions have kind of been locked up since, you know, the first month of the season. This has been really fun to watch the Pacific standings. I'll tell you what, Haley. I don't know that Vegas is locked into a playoff spot. And that, as we talk about storylines we should be giving more oxygen to, Robyniosi's one. I think the Vegas Golden Knights having to scratch and claw their way into the playoffs is another.

And I watched their full game on Sunday when they played Ottawa. And they certainly didn't impress me. No. That was a coin flip of a hockey game. And they got to play the rest of the regular season, likely without Mark Stone, possibly without Alec Martinez. And I look at this,

and I know a lot of people were saying, oh, they're pulling a Tampa Bay by hiding guys on LTIR. But, you know, Tampa Bay, when they did that to Kutraff, they were deep enough, good enough. Making the playoffs was never a question, right? And now if you're Vegas and one of their fans, I think you have to be a little bit nervous that it's not locked in.

Like, if I had to say the probability of Vegas making the playoffs, I think I'm at about 75% that they'll make the playoffs. But that's certainly for a team that's pushed all of its chips into the middle of the table, you probably don't love those. You'd like to be at like 90% or 100%, wouldn't you? Yeah. I think honestly, and this might be a bit spicy, but I would rather see, like, Vegas miss the playoffs

and see like a Vancouver country. Canucks get into the wild card, see, you know, Dallas, Nashville, Anaheim, Vancouver, L.A., like, I want to see those teams in the mix. I don't care if the Vegas Golden Knights make the playoffs at all. They've been there the last few years, put all their cards on the table, and honestly, kind of hope it doesn't work out. I have no reason for that other than I would rather see the Canucks make this crazy run and make it. I'd rather see the Preds continue to be that team that's like, are they going to rebuild this year? Just kidding, they made the playoffs. I would rather see Jason Robertson and Jake Audinger have like great ears. Like there's storylines that I

care about more than anything else going on in Vegas. Other than Jack Eichael, I thought it was nice to see him get the game winner. I'm happy that he's healthy and feeling better. And I think it's great to hear that, you know, he was helpful to Tyler Johnson. who went through the same surgery, the same procedure. That's great. Otherwise, I don't care about, I don't care if Vegas makes it. Yeah. I think they've become, very instantly they've become an unlikable team.

But because of their success. And I think that's what happens in sports. If a team become successful right away, oftentimes they become the source of everything. Yeah, I want to see you be really bad like Seattle first. Come on. Yeah. Let's go. Exactly.

That's how expansion teams are supposed to be. Let me ask you one other multiple choice question to wrap up the show. Our Sean Shapiro reported earlier on Monday that the NHL Haley's bringing back the reverse retro jerseys. And they'll have a new spin to them. They're not going to be exactly what they did two years ago. But ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, reverse retro jerseys are back. I want to know, Haley. Do you A like it, B, hate it?

C, totally indifferent. Well, I want to know why they need to be different. Like, so I'm not getting to see the full blastie back is what we're saying. Exactly. Well, you know what? Yeah, blasted the flame. That's the flames. The flames one.

Why are you laughing? It's sweet. I know. No, no. I'm laughing because when you, when you ask the question, why are they going to make a change? As somebody smarter. The Islanders Jersey. Yeah.

But as somebody smart. I like, I love the LA Kings one. Yeah, like some of those were unreal. Like, why are we trying to do something different? It was the same conversation though, Ian, that we had laughing. week of they're trying to do things different all the time and end up just making these like kind of blah uniforms that say smashville just give me the blastie give me the red third jersey for the sends like give me the red 3d give me that purple kings jersey that

minnesota one was unreal the capitals one was unreal there was like a dozen like unbelievable jerseys from the reverse retroes don't mess it up I don't want smashville. I don't want bolts. Don't mess us up. I know. The avalanche one was good too. I love that.

Reverse retro. Okay. So many good ones. I love it, but don't mess up the good ones. Yeah. It's weird. I totally agree with you.

But the answer, you're like, why are they doing it? The answer is always money. Like whenever you're not sure what the answer is to something, the answer is inevitably money. So they probably look at this and say,

there's a chance for us to do a cash grab and then go from there. So that's what I think. But I'm with you. Like, stick with those. I love them. I thought they were great. I thought they were sneaky good.

My dad called the Blasty, the horse one. Yeah. The horse one. He's not wrong. He's technically not incorrect. He's like, can I, can you get me one of those horse sweaters? Blastie. Like, shirt, shirt.

Get you a horse sweater. Imagine if I showed up at family Christmas with a crew neck with just two horses running in a field or something. And you're like, this is what you wanted. right, the horse sweater. Yeah. I got this in Calgary. They probably do sell those in Calgary, though. That's the irony.

Yeah. There's like at Alberta boot or whatever. Yeah. Oh, awesome. Hey, listen, we'll leave it there. I hope you feel better because clearly you're not at 100%. So you played through some pain here to get this podcast out today. Yeah, after you shredded me for missing three episodes for the Olympics,

I felt I had to show up today. Shred you. What he shredded you. We were cheering you on. But now you better get some rest. Get some rest. All right. Listen, this was a ton of fun.

I want to thank everybody for listening to us here for the past hour or so. I want to remind you to follow us on your favorite podcast platform. Leave us a rating and review. You certainly appreciate that. You can subscribe to the Athletic Audio Plus on Apple Podcasts right now. Get all of our bonus content from our entire network. You'll start with a 30-day free trial. And after that, 99 cents a month.

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