The Athletic Hockey Show - Johnny Gaudreau lands in Columbus, Maple Leafs add Matt Murray, thoughts on Blackhawks and Flames as free agency opens

Episode Date: July 14, 2022

Ian and Sean kick off the show by welcoming Aaron Portzline on to discuss the surprising news of Johnny Gaudreau signing to the Columbus Blue Jackets on Wednesday, including how it came to fruition, and the effect it could have on the psyche of Columbus fans. Ian and Sean then discuss if this could be the most shocking free agent signing of all time, and Sean shares his thoughts on the signing of Matt Murray in Toronto. Next, with the Senators' moves, could there be a Battle of Ontario again in the playoffs in the near future? Also, talking about the Blackhawks recent moves, and where the Flames will be in the next six months.Then in the mailbag, a listener calls in with a potential landing spot for Nazem Kadri, and a look back at Pittsburgh trading Jaromir Jagr to the Capitals in "This Week in Hockey History".Have a question or comment for Ian and Sean? Email [e-mail] or leave a VM [phone]!Save on a subscription to The Athletic: theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back, everybody. It is your Thursday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. It is Ian Mendez-Shon Mackin-Doo with you for the next hour or so. Coming up, we're going to be talking about that seismic. A piece of news out of free agency, Johnny Goodrow to the Carolina, to the Columbus Blue Jackets. We didn't see that coming. We'll find out if Aaron Putsline did.

He's going to join us right off the top. We'll talk about some other moves in free agency. Battle of Ontario may be looming a large. Sean is going to talk about his initial reaction to the Matt Murray news, because I think that was significant for Toronto fans. We'll talk about what's going on in Chicago and Calgary. We'll get a voicemail from a fan talking about Nazim Kadry. We've got some emails a little this week in hockey history as well.

We'll look at the time Pittsburgh traded Yarmier Yager to a division rival for nothing. And Pat Quinn takes over as a head coach and GM. So we've got all of that coming up in the next hour. I'll tell you what though, Sean. Like this, like, to me, this is the story of free agency. And we had dinner with them. Just the other day in Montreal, Aaron Portsline sat at our table. It was you, me, I'm Mark Lazarus, Kevin Kurz, Corey Massassac.

And Aaron Portsline never once said, hey, guys, what if we in Columbus got Johnny Goodrow? And I want to know, when we sat down for dinner a few days ago, was that even on your mind, Aaron Portsline? as we bring in to the athletic hockey show. Was that even on your mind that this could happen? Ian, it wasn't on my mind at 3 o'clock yesterday. Wow. No, it wasn't on my mind. I don't think it wasn't on the Blue Jackets' mind at 3 o'clock yesterday.

They did a press conference with Erica Branson in a nationwide arena. There's no way that Yarm O'Keklein is cool enough to go talk Erica Branson for 45 minutes while he's got a negotiation with Johnny Godro going on upstairs. It was sometime after that press conference that, Goddrauss Camp got back to the blue jackets and made it clear that, yes, they're interested in negotiating. They're interested in this opportunity in Columbus, seven years, whatever the money was at that point. It ended just under $70 million. They didn't really know this was serious until mid-afternoon, the first day of free agency.

So I wish I could say I was holding out on you as we enjoyed our, I had the halibut. I remember what you had. You had some sort of a delicious buoy base, if I'm correct. Yeah, it was like a paella type of thing. Yeah. Yeah. I was not holding out. I had no clue at that time.

So we usually at this time of year, when it comes to big free agents, we hear about these big splashy presentations. And we hear about, you know, some of these guys do a tour and they come in and everybody's there to shake their hands and kiss their behinds and tell them why they should sign it. it almost feels like this wasn't a case where Columbus sold themselves to Johnny Goddrow. Like it feels like Johnny Goddrault picked Columbus and then went to them and said, I want to be a blue jacket, make me a deal. Like, is that an unfair way of describing it?

I don't know that it's unfair. They did, you know, there was not a, they did not know in the days leading up to free agency that they would be given this sort. of an audience with Johnny Godreau and his representative, Louis Gross. So, you know, it wasn't, you know, here's the great neighborhoods, here are the great golf courses. This is what it looks like to be a blue jacket. It was an offer, which they've done this before. And I think some people may be surprised by this. I think players kick tires with free agents that they really don't have a full expectation of landing.

but if there's a miracle play there where it so happens that it's possible, then they'll move some things around to make it happen. Columbus was in on, I don't know about in on, but Columbus made a bid for Petrangelo a couple of years ago. They spoke offer sheet with Mitch Marner when he was up last time in Toronto. And they've tried these things before. I think the surprise here is that the response was, yeah, we'd be up for that. And it's sort of like a, wait, what?

What? seriously? So then they started with the full court press on. He didn't come to Columbus until today. We just had a press conference with him here this morning. And it's what Meredith arrived. And they're heading back east this afternoon.

But I think if Columbus had an opportunity, they would have put together an even more impressive package, but it came very quickly. And it got down to the nitty-gritty term and dollars quickly. And the match was there. I mean, if Billy wants in on this thing, maybe it's different. If the Islanders

won it on this, maybe it's different. It didn't seem that the Flyers expressed an interest at all, which is shocking given the buildup for that particular move for more than a year now. So I think Columbus quickly started to figure out that it was them and the Devils, and they felt like they could play

in that competition. So they put their best foot forward, and here we are. How would you explain this to our list? who may not be familiar with the Columbus market, Aaron. What does this do for the psyche of a Columbus Blue Jackets fan? Yeah. Well, I think this, you know, so it's been strange around here for a few years, and you guys have both been to Columbus.

So you, I think most people who have come here frequently really like coming here and frankly don't understand some of the abuse that the city of the market has taken through the years. And you know what? if you're not a fan of a specific team, maybe you don't do nuance particularly well regarding players and why they would have left. So some of the stuff gets lost in the shuffle.

Did Panera choose the Rangers over the Blue Jackets? He did. Did Peerlute Du Bois won out for reasons that have still not been explained? Yeah, absolutely. Sergei Barovsky, they did not offer him the massive contract that he was looking for. They weren't going to make him the highest-paid goal-tend in the league.

but he didn't leave because he didn't like Columbus. Matthew Shane came here briefly, loved it. He left, but they didn't offer him a contract to stay. There are reasons for some of these guys to leave. And none of them have said, I just can't stay in that city. I got to get out of there. And yet that's the reputation that's been developed. But people who have come here, a lot of people who have played here, stay here.

Cam Ackinson, Nick Bolino, go back for years. still here. So many players stick around. They needed something like this. I can write it. The management can say they love it. Current players can say they love it. Nothing really resonates quite like the top free agents available picking you as the destination. So he helps them immensely on the ice, obviously. But this is a from a morale and just as a boost to the psyche of the Columbus sports fans and frankly the players here having something like this go down is really the only way you change that reputation whether it's fair or not it's the only way you alter it and that's why it's so much so much so looking all those free agents leave a few years ago and then

the Seth Jones trade last year from the outside it looked like what we're seeing in Columbus is I guess what you would call the traditional rebuilt they weren't burning it to the ground the way that a team like Chicago is, but they were starting over, build up a little bit sure. Is that a fair way to characterize it? And how does that change now that suddenly one of the best players in the league has sort of dropped out of nowhere onto this roster? Yeah, it's a great question. So when this started, and really it started before Jones, it started with the trade of Polino and Sobarred for first John Fix late in that, I guess it would have been 21 season, 20 season. 21.

And that was sort of when the vision started. And Yarmou Kekyllian had all in a restart rather than a rebuild. I thought honestly for the first year that he was basically just playing semantics that he just didn't want to say the word rebuild because of all the connotations with that. And then last summer with the Jones trade, it started to become clearer what the plan was. And the plan wasn't to get rid of all of the. of your veteran players who have value. And I think we started to see signs of that with the Werenski extension.

We saw signs of that with the Kerali three-agent contract. You're not signing a player like Sean Kerali, a third or fourth line centerman if you're looking to tank. He's not coming here. That's your plan. So they felt even before the Godro trade or a free agent signing yesterday, they felt as though they were on the right path to challenge. for a playoff spot this coming

season. I think this does nothing but put that into hyperdrive. Still questions on this roster for sure. Still some things that they need to fix, especially on the back end. But I think his plan all along, Yarmokekeleiner, was to be a playoff team

this season or darn close to it this coming season and to make this more of a regular occurrence now. He didn't plan to be down long. It was intended to be a quick sort of turnaround. You keep these players you want to build around,

the boom Jenners of the world, Oliver Bjorks, there's some good players here for Vladislav Gavrachov. You keep those guys, you build around them. You don't want to rebuild the entire dressing room, which is in his opinion where a lot of the rebuilds have out a hard time getting traction. You don't know who you're drafting and what kind of leader that 18-year-old is going to be.

and to just turn the keys over to a bunch of 18 and 19-year-olds is really risky business. So keep the veteran players, the veteran voices that you respect build around that. They were down for a couple of years. Now they feel like they're ready to challenge again in the metro. You know, I love the way that you finished your column on Wednesday in which, you know, you said, hey, July 13, 2022, put that on the short list of the greatest days in franchise history. Let me ask you this question. And recency bias sometimes comes into play, and our answer would be, oh, no, it's definitely July 13th.

If I gave Aaron Portsline the question, what is the greatest day in Blue Jackets history? What's your answer to that? Is it Wednesday? Or is that recency bias playing a role? Well, that may be recency bias. I think the, you know, for this organization drafting Rick Nash, one overall was huge. I think of the night that they extended him, his contract when it looked like early on he may, there may be some friction there. That was a big moment.

There's been a lot of moments sweeping Tampa in the first round of 2019. Big moment. And they've had other free agent signings that people have gotten really excited about. Adam Foote, you know, it's easy to forget that. It was 18 years ago or so Adam Foote signed on here. And that was a prominent Canadian hockey player, star from the avalanche that came to Columbus. Nathan Horton, years after that, but neither of those guys were true superstars. stars for sure, but not superstars.

I think what sets the state apart and why this date might become sort of a point of demarcation is we're talking about a transcendent figure. We're talking about a guy's, you know, he's got a he's got the great hockey nickname. You can almost envision all these kids in Columbus, Ohio wearing good droll sweaters and

throwing their hair out like Johnny Hockey. He's got that ability that not a ton of hockey players do in some markets to reach beyond the ice and really excite people. And I also think he's a magnetic type player where there may be guys that

consider coming here in the future because he's here that wouldn't have otherwise. And now the challenge is to keep playing it together, but I think we'll look back on this date. This is weird too, but I look back in the first round of the draft last year.

There haven't been many days like that in Columbus hockey where they trade Seth Jones for one hell of a return, end up getting coal cylinder at number 12 from the Blackhogs, get another first this year, which is going to turn into David Eurocheck. The way that that first round unfolded last year was a momentous day for this franchise, too, but certainly this is a big deal of recency bias or no. Well, listen, I really appreciate you taking the time. And look, it's going to be fun.

Look, the team that I cover, Ottawa, has been a non-playoff team the last few years. They're being aggressive. They're pushing in. Columbus is doing that. I think Detroit, you can make a case, has been pretty aggressive. It's going to be fun, isn't it, watching the jackets, the senators, and the Red Wings, try and try and claw down because those eight teams in the east, they all had 100 points. So someone's going to have to take a step back.

But this is going to be a lot of fun to watch in the months ahead. Yeah, it's also interesting to look at the teams up above and see if Pittsburgh is keeping the band together. It's the surprise of many people. Where's that going to go? Washington, these great, great teams with proud, legendary players are starting to get up there a bit. What if Boston's the same way? Have these teams reached their crest and they're starting to come over the hill now? Maybe there's a changing of the guard in the east, and maybe this is the start of it.

Yeah, it's going to be a lot of fun and appreciate the time because I know this has been a wild 24 hours for you. So thanks for popping by. And why don't we give you a chance to plug your podcast here? Because I'm sure that's going to be a lot of fun, right? Coming up with the Johnny Goodro News. Yeah, I mean, Front and Nationwide is the podcast at the intersection where beautiful nationwide arena sets. And we're going to tee it up again today with the great producer, Danielle.

Yeah, I think we'll talk about Johnny Goodro today. That seems like a good topic for Central Ohio. Yeah, I think so. You're safe going with that. Listen, again, Front and Nationwide podcast. Check it out if you want some more on Johnny Goodrow. Aaron Portsline, thanks for dropping by. Hey, always a pleasure, guys.

Thank you. Thanks, Aaron Portsline. For dropping by. That was an insightful conversation. Sean, let me ask you this question. When that news dropped on Wednesday that Johnny Goodro was going to Columbus, what was your initial reaction? I was stunned.

The way that I actually saw it was I'd been offline for a little while. and when I got back online, the first thing I did was I was checking some of our group Slack channels because we were doing the live blog and stuff like that. And I saw, I think it was Eric doing a post, something about Columbus and, you know, Columbus Headspace. And I know that Aaron had posted earlier in the day that, hey, Columbus might be in on this guy. And I thought, oh, wow, is this getting traction? Like, are people really taking this seriously?

Wouldn't that be cool? And then as I was reading it I was like, why is he He's using like past tense And you know And then I pieced it together Like he's writing this as if He is actually

Is if this has actually happened And even then my thought was Boy, that's a pro right there He's covered in all his bases Look at that He's got his just in case Johnny Girdreau goes to Columbus Eric's got his piece all written

And ready to go Because it just my brain would not click over The fact that this had really happened And of course then I saw that it had and I got to be honest Like as a As a fan of a team That wasn't in on this guy

It's great It's great You love to be surprised You love to You know See a big name on the move It's a You know

A fan base that You know I can't imagine There's too many people out there That are furious That the Blue Jacket fans Got What over on us It was a very cool story

And I was saying To somebody I think this is I think I wrote it in the live blog. To me, this felt like the most surprising offseason moment since that infamous 2016 hour where everything happened all at once. The Taylor Hall trade, Weber for Suban and Stephen Stamcoast all happened in the same hour. This is the first time since then that it just felt like something just came out of nowhere where you were like, I don't believe this just happened.

Yeah. And I think when you go back, like you said, usually when a guy signs on free eight, whether it's, you know, in the past it used to be July 1st or whatever in July. There's always a list of teams that it's like, yeah, it's down to these four or five. You almost never see some off the radar team show up and get a guy right, like on the day that free agency opens. Maybe if he doesn't sign somewhere and it ends up going five, six days in, then the field opens up. What I want to ask you because you are, I mean, this is your niche, this is your jam. Is Johnny Goodroo signing in Columbus the most surprising, like, big name free agent signing of all time? Like, where you were like, I got to pick my jaw up off the floor because I don't believe that guy just ended up there.

I can't believe it. Yeah, I mean, it's hard to go back. It's one of those things where it's kind of hard to remember like the pre-social media era because, you know, back then you just a guy could have been in talks with somebody and you just didn't know about it. Like, I remember Mark Messia going to Vancouver being a surprise. Maybe it wasn't a you. I mean, you know, with roots out there, maybe that was, you know, a rumble that was out there. But, you know, to me, in my little East Coast world, it wasn't. Salani and Korea both going to Colorado was definitely a shocker, especially since we, you know,

we didn't think Colorado would be able to afford to do that. And then they both took a lot less money. But in terms of in the cap era and in the social media era where it just feels like every possibility gets mentioned and picked apart and everything before anything happens. I can't remember anything comparable to this. Maybe with trades, yes, those sorts of moves. I'm not sure there's ever been a, certainly a big name signing. You know, John DeVar is going to Toronto felt surprising.

It felt, you know, like a big deal that he would leave a team and that, you know, that he would choose Toronto. But that was everywhere. I mean, nobody was picking their jaw off the floor after that. We all knew that the Leafs were in the running. They're same with Artemipan in New York. I can't remember one ever. They came out of left field like this with a player anywhere near this statue.

Can you? No, because my initial thought was Chris Pronger to Edmonton, but I was like, wait, that was a trade. That was a trade, yeah. Yeah. Like, it's almost impossible to think about these moments where you can't believe a guy signed there. Now look, I was surprised. I remember Ottawa signed Alexi Kovalev as a free agent. You got to remember, Covalve had just come out of Montreal, where he was kind of a,

he had a weird relationship, but he was a very popular guy, right, in Montreal. And he left the Habs to join Ottawa, which was surprising. But Lexi Kovalev in 2009 or whatever isn't what Johnny Goodro is in 2022, which is. Sergey Gonchargone of the senators was. Yeah, it was surprising. But again, but that, That was Gonchar in his 30s, right? It wasn't like, here's Johnny Goddrault in the prime of his career. Maybe our listeners can help us out with a, holy smokes, I can't believe that guy signed there. I guess maybe the closest that we've had as far as the really, really big names was we all figured that we all knew Minnesota was in on Zach Porese.

In fact, I think he was kind of the favorite. We knew that they were talking to Ryan Souter, although I think there were people that said, Detroit or some other teams. I think a lot of us figured there was no way they could get both, that it was one or the other. And that when it was announced that they were both signing in the same place, that really did feel like a major surprise just because you thought that it had to be one or the other. To have the two big free agents both pick going to the same place and going to a team in Minnesota that wasn't considered a marquee team, a marquee destination for free agents, that might be the closest.

But again, even with that one, you immediately could go, you know, they're both from the area. They both have these connections. They're best friends. Yeah, if you can make the cap work, I guess, of course it makes sense. So that might be the best I can come up with because it was both at the same time. But even then, it's, I don't think it lands at the same level as this one. No. And even when some people might say, well, Mike Medano leaving the stars to go to Detroit or Daniel Alpherson leaving Ottawa to go to Detroit. But those guys were at the end of the road, like end of the line, right? Like it wasn't, like Johnny Goodro in his prime. So help us out. listeners, and let us know a star as a free agent who bolts, and it's just like, I can't believe

he ended up there. I can't believe that guy signed there. I feel like Johnny Goodrow is the answer. I don't think this is recency bias at play. This is, this is legitimately the most shocking signing in free agent history, I think. But again, we certainly leave room to be wrong on that one. Now, you talked us through where you kind of saw the Johnny Goodrow News and you were able to say, hey, listen, you weren't necessarily emotionally attached to the situation because the team that you love, the Toronto Maple Leafs weren't in the running for Johnny Goodro. The team that you do love, see, the mm-hmm means you know what's coming. I want you to walk our listeners through.

Now, tell me if I was the first one on, I think it was Monday night. See, I had heard rumblings, hey, this Matt Murray deal. is close. I tried to poke around. And then somebody said to me, look, I think, I think this is going to be the deal.

And it's going to be, Ottawa is going to retain 25% of Murray's salary. They're going to give up a third and a seventh. And I was like, okay, that's it.

And I was like, okay. And I, I didn't feel comfortable putting that out there. I'm not really one of these, I just, newsbreaking isn't my thing. I like to analyze more than,

break, but I think I sent that to you before it had really gotten out there. And I want you to express to the listeners what your reaction was when you found out that this was the trade between Ottawa and Toronto for Matt Murray. Because, I mean, the timeline here is the, the Leafs have been linked with Murray for a little while now. And I didn't, I'll be honest, I didn't pay much attention to it because I thought there's, there's no way. Leafs are one of the smart teams. They're not getting, they're not getting suckered in on this one. And then by Monday, it became apparent that this deal was going to happen. We just didn't know what it was going to look like.

And at that point, a part of me sort of went into panic mode thinking like, oh, what are they going to get themselves into here? But there were lots of scenarios kicking around, right? You know, it could be 50% retained? Could there be a second team involved? Could this be a case where the Leafs have told the senators, you will get another team, do a 50, 50 retention, we'll take them off your hands at 25%, but that's it. That's the best we can do. Hey, who knows? And then you send me this text. You say, I think this is the deal. And I mean, do you remember what I replied? Do you, my exact response? I have it right here. I don't mind.

Okay. Yeah, call it up. I'll read. Here's, yeah. Here's the private. So you text me and you say, what do you think of this deal and you list is exactly what turns out to be the trade. But this is before it's been announced. And my first response, I say, if the Maple Leafs are paying 75% of Matt Murray, it's a disaster. And you then explain, you know, again, that you, this is, this is what you're hearing. And the text that I said then is I said, and this is a quote, good chance, this is the deal that gets do best fired if that's what it is. And within half an hour, we found out that that is indeed what it is. And in a few days since, look, I've had a chance to step back.

I've had a chance to read much smarter people than I give their takes on the deal. I have heard from some very smart people who work at an angel organizations, some of whom think Matt Murray is underrated in the public eye based on numbers they have access to and others who don't really seem to think that. I still think my initial reaction is the right one. And I stand by what I put in that text, which I guess is now what I've said on the podcast, which is not, to be clear, that Kyle Dubas should be fired for this trade. I'm not saying this trade is a disaster. I'm not saying this trade is absolutely cannot possibly work. Of course it could work.

It's goaltending. Who knows? But I do think that there is a good chance that, uh, we end up looking back on this trade as the beginning of the end of Kyle Dubas. And I say that as someone who has been a big fan of his and remains a big fan of his. I think he's a very good GM. I think he's a very smart guy. I think he's had more good decisions than bad as the Leafs GM.

But this is an all-in bet. This is an all-in bet on a team that is Stanley Cup ready that needs to win something, desperately needs to win something. and has known for a very long time now that goaltending was going to be the big question mark of the offseason and this is the answer that they gave a guy who was essentially the third string on one of the worst teams in the league and they pointed at him and said at a slight discount on his salary that's the guy we're going to plug in and we're going to push all those chips into the middle for our Stanley Cup run it could work It absolutely could work.

In this league, the way goaltending goes, yeah, it could work. And then I'm getting tagged with this a year from now. I'm on cold takes exposed. That could absolutely happen. And I'd love it if it did. I can't imagine being happier to be wrong than I would be on this one. But man, this feels like a risk, an enormous risk. And the fact that Pierre Dorian was able to push,

Kyle Dubas into a corner and get him to say yes to this deal. Even knowing that Pier Dorian probably didn't have a lot of options for a player who was not going to come back to the Ottawa Senators. Great work by Pierre Dorian. It's not the most inspiring work I've ever seen from Kyle Dubas. And we'll see how it goes. If it goes bad, then yes, I think this is the trade that spells the end. Unfortunately, for this version of the Maple Leafs front office. Well, here's the thing. Look, I've watched Matt Murray the last two years in person.

I see it. Like, I know there's a lot of, I put myself in the minority on this one. I think he still has it. I really do. Like, I saw, I've seen enough out of him to say, I can understand how he won two Stanley Cups. Like, I know there's some people who are saying, like, where's that guy? Where's the, I saw, I saw him. I watched him stop 39 of 40 shots multiple times in Ottawa. It's the injuries that are the issue. And yes, I do think this is a gamble. I won't sugarcoat that. But I think, would you not agree with me on this?

At the end of the year when Toronto got knocked out again in round one, this time by Tampa, and this comes off the heels of, you know, losing the habs year before, whatever. And the feeling of people saying, oh my God, they're going to run it back with the same crew. They're not. they're taking a get like he's taking a big gamble which is what some people thought he should do I understand that that's not what people meant you don't want to make in goal right yeah people

when people said don't run it back you can't bring back the same crew they didn't mean bring back all the same core with a worst goaltender that's that's not what anyone was looking for they were looking for shake up the core four make a big move upfront clear cap space bring in a big name somewhere. Nobody was saying bring back everybody, bring back all the skaters, but downgrade the goaltending as your big move. Like that's not what any fan was out there asking for.

No, but what I'm saying is, I don't think he's a downgrade. And again, I know I'm in the minority on that. He just has to, there's two things with Matt. One is he's got to stay healthy. Okay. but secondly, like a lot of athletes, I think he needs trust.

I think he needs to know that he's wanted. I think he needs to know that he's respected. I think he needs to know that he's the guy. I think that they're going to give him that chance to start. It's going to be fascinating to watch it play out. But he has one of the most atypical career arcs of all time. Like, first of all, it's almost Kendraiden-esque the way he won that first Stanley Cup, right?

where he really wasn't a regular season goalie, he wins, okay? Then he comes back to next year and he wins again. And now you're looking at a guy who's won two Stanley Cups before his 25th birthday, I think. I mean, there was a time, and correct me if I'm wrong. When we were talking about sending Olympic athletes from the NHL to, where was 2018 Olympics, Pyong Chang, right? Anyway, there's a lot of people who said, that's our goalie.

Like, that guy just won two Stanley Cups in row. Matt Murray will be Canada's best chance. and goal. And for whatever reason, I think concussions have played a role. I think, you know, just bad fits. I've played a role. He's 28. I can see it. I, like, I guess my point is I understand Dubus's thinking here. Even though a lot of people don't, I do. And I think it's a worthwhile gamble. I like Ilya Samsonoff too. Like now, like now I think, okay, I think you stabilize the position a little bit with Samsonoff. You're asking these guys to win you, what, 45 games during the regular season. And I think if Matt can win you 30 games in the

regular season and is ready for game one of the playoffs, I think you're going to like where you're at. But the last four years have told you that that's not a guarantee. He's not a 55. He's not a 55. 60 game guy. He's a 40 game guy, 45 games. So you got to hope he comes in and he's like, you know, wins 30 of his 45 starts or whatever and he's ready to go. But this is going to be fascinating. And I completely agree with you that Caldubis's security is directly tied to Matt Murray in the crease. I would agree with that assessment. For sure. And look, I, I'm glad that you mention the injury. history and how important that is because it's important that that be understood as part of the risk that the Leafs are taking in this deal, which is to say, if Matt Murray goes out and he plays good for a month and then he gets hurt again, and that derails a season, the Leafs cannot point of that and say, well, the guy got hurt. I mean, the guy getting hurt has been part of his story for years now, and maybe the Leafs feel like there's something they can do to make that

less likely. As far as the psychology of it, yeah, I mean, clearly the fit in Ottawa wasn't there. This would ordinarily be a change of scenery situation where you'd say maybe just getting out of there, a place where he clearly by the end wasn't appreciated, wasn't

wanted. Maybe that alone provides a lift. But he's going to Toronto. He's going to the biggest magnifying glass spotlight, whatever you want to call it, that you can have in the league. And he's going as the most controversial addition, he is going to be one of the most watched players in the entire league next year. So if that is a part of what it takes to get Matt Murray back on track, then this is a terrible

landing spot for him, maybe one of the worst possible ones. You know, I remember him as a cup winner, but that was five years ago. I don't concern myself too much with what happened five years ago, and we have five years since to look back on. I don't care at all about what he was like in Sue Say Marie when Kyle Dubas knew him. I don't care at all about what he was like as a 10-year-old when this goalie consultant, the Leafs have apparently knew him.

And we're supposed to believe that like, you know, wow, I knew him as a little kid is some sort of qualifier that should give us confidence. I wish that I could, you know, we all know that we look at goalie. Well, his save percentage was this, his goal is against average. We know those aren't good numbers. We know that teams have got much better data on these goaltenders that they don't share publicly. I would love to be able to sit there and go, the Leafs must know something. Maybe the Leafs have got some numbers that show us that this guy is better than we think.

But unfortunately, this is the same team that went and got Peter Morazik last summer and bet big on him and had it blow up. So unfortunately, they don't get the benefit of the doubt on having some sort of secret sauce when it comes to goalies that maybe some other teams do. what I see here is a team that got backed into a corner, a team that went into, not even an offseason, went into the second half of last season, realizing that they had an issue and goal, realizing that this is where it was going to wind up, that they were going to have to move on from the pair they had,

that there was a good chance they would lose Jack Campbell. They've known all this for a long time. They came into an off season where it felt like there was going to be a big, game of musical chairs with goaltenders, guys available in trade, free agency, shaking loose, what have you, and that one at a time those names disappeared off the board. And I don't know how far down the list Matt Murray would have been as far as their options, but eventually they got to a point where he was the best name that they had on the list. And the Ottawa senator sniffed that out and forced them to pay through the nose in terms of the salary. I mean, I don't care about

the third and the seventh round pick. Forget that. The Leifes are trying to win a a Stanley Cup. That doesn't help them at all. It's the cap hit that matters. And through all of this, to get to a point, to manage yourself into a point where Matt Murray is your only answer, and you don't even feel like you can tell Pierre Dorian, look, you retain 50%, or go find somebody else. Good luck. And you hang up the phone, you wait for him to call back. They didn't feel they could

do that. In fact, it sounds like Dorian pulled that card on them and said it's 25%. You call me back. And they called back. And I will tell you, I've heard from Leaf Fan saying, you know, who else was available on Monday morning? When, you know, when Monday rolls around, who would you rather have? It's not about Monday morning because Kyle Dubas didn't become GM on Monday morning. He didn't suddenly get hired and walk in and go, oh my gosh, there's only three goalies left on the market. They had all summer. And they had before the summer. They head into the last season to think ahead. And they played their cards in a way that led to Matt Murray at not that. Not that

far off five million a year with all of those what ifs and all those question marks and all those gambols and that's the guy you're pinning your stanley cup hopes on you can't tell me that this was anywhere near plan a b or c i don't know how far down the list it went but they they managed to get themselves into this situation and it it had better work and it might but it had better because if not, unfortunately, I think all the good work that went into building this team, a lot of it goes out the window. And the last place I'll disagree with you is I don't think they just need 45 wins. I mean, yes, granted, this team made the playoffs last year with 115 points with not very good goal tend.

So, you know, are they going to miss the playoffs, even if Matt Murray stinks, even if Farlemont stinks? Not necessarily. I mean, we've seen teams do that, but that feels like a pretty low risk. But what did 115 points get them last year? Got them to Tampa Bay Lightning in round one. And it got them one goal away from winning a round, but they couldn't do it against quite possibly the second best team in all of hockey. A couple of extra wins, get them the number one seat, let them play the capitals,

let them play somebody else. Different scenario. But they didn't get that. They need every win they can get to get themselves in the best possible situation for an absolute make or make or break playoffs. there is no way that Matt Murray at 4.7 million is anywhere close to the best you can do in this offseason with everything that's on the line. It stakes as high as they are. I just can't imagine that this was anybody's idea of a good plan until it was the only plan that was left in front of them.

You know, you mentioned Pierre Dorian's name a couple of times. They're saying, hey, some pretty tidy work in, you know, getting rid of 75% of Murray's salary. Listen, this has been the summer of Pierre, getting Alex de Brinkett, signing Claude Giroux, you know, getting Cam Talbett, getting out from under Matt Murray's contract with minimal pain. The Senator's general manager has had the best offseason of any of his counterparts, in my opinion.

And I'm not trying to look at this, you know, through the audible lens. I'm looking this league-wide. I don't think anybody has done more for his team. in the month of July than Pierre Dorian. And I got to ask you this question because you mentioned, hey, Toronto needs to have a better spot in the playoffs, get a weaker opponent in round one,

and so they're not dancing with the tampas and what I? Let me present this scenario to you. And you tell me on a scale of 1 to 10, one being no confidence, 10 being very confident. It's round 1 next year. It's Ottawa and Toronto. what is your confidence level for the Maple Leafs? Because remember, back in the day,

your confidence level would have been at 15. Oh, it's Ottawa in the first round. I think we know how this is going to play out. So knowing everything that you know of where we sit here in the middle of July and where the Leafs goal-tending is, where Ottawa is on an upward swing, all that stuff, scale a 1 to 10, Ottawa, Toronto, best of seven series. What's your confidence level?

Do the Leafs have the cap space to hire Gary Roberts to just sit on the end of the bench? glare at senators. That's worth a win for sure in that series. Yeah. Look, I mean, I'm full agreement, everything you said about what the senators have done this summer. I love that the senators fans get to even realistically finally talk about the playoffs. Not the way they did last summer where they were like, hey,

we're going to make a run at the playoffs. And everyone else was kind of side-eyeing it going, what? Why would you think that? And then sure enough, they had the season they had. look, if the Leafs play Senators in the playoffs, the Leafs should be overwhelming favorites, just like they were against Montreal, just like they were against Columbus. What would my confidence level be? It would be low.

I mean, of course it would be low. My confidence level for this Leafs team in the playoffs would be low against pretty much anyone. And look, let's see how it goes. If this is the Toronto Maple Leafs and their 110-point team and Matt Murray has played 60 games and he's looked great, and I can't open Twitter without somebody saying like,

hey, remember when you thought that was a bad trade, ha ha, then I'll feel pretty good. And Austin Matthews is the MVP and Mitch Marner's looking good again and everyone's healthy. I would feel pretty good against even the best possible version of this this Senators team right now. If they're just stitching it together, overcoming bad goaltending,

as opposed to being lifted up by decent goaltending, then not as high. And, you know, there's, there are some rivalries. And, you know, who knows if this would end up being one where a lot of times the results during the season don't seem to matter all that much. And you just kind of wind up with, you know, feeding off the emotion, the momentum of it more than anything.

Senators would have a puncher's chance against the Leafs. Absolutely. Everybody does. Everyone does in the playoffs. Even if they'd be underdogs. It'd be a hell of a thing, though. It'd be a fun one to watch for everyone else, especially with full fans in the building. I don't know.

I mean, Leif's big issue is a lot of times they haven't been able to win the big game at home in the playoffs. They get seven shots at doing it in this series at least. Wow. I knew I was waiting for some comment about the crowd. I was waiting for it. There you go. Yeah, it'd be a lot of fun,

especially if Matt Murray was the goalie and, you know, all Brady Kachuk's first playoff series. Like, that would just be a ton of fun. And listen, I think Ottawa has done a pretty good job of improving in the off season, I think as we talk to Aaron Portsline, I think the jackets have clearly improved. I like what Detroit has done too in goal with Billy Huso and David Perron and a couple of other things that they've done. I like Detroit. I want to just go to the other side of the ledger for a second. I want to talk about two teams that I don't know what they're going

to do and how they're going to move on. One, let me start with Chicago because it became obvious with the Alex De Brinket trade. They were taking a match to this thing and they were lighting it and they were burning it down. Like to the ground, studs and all. It's all coming down. What would you tell a Chicago fan

right now? What would tell a Chicago fan about what this season might be like? I mean, I don't even know that Chicago fans need me to tell them because they're smart fans. They know what this is. and they know that it makes sense for two reasons. I mean, first of all, you do have the, you know, Connor Bedard. This is the year to tank.

And also you've got a brand new GM. And look, Kyle Davidson is potentially being smart for the Blackhawks, but he's being very smart for Kyle Davidson. He is making sure that expectations are absolutely low as possible, and that will buy him as much time as a brand new GM in this league to get the lay of the land and to get the experience before there's. any pressure to start building. I would say that the one piece here, and again,

Chicago fans don't need me to hear this from me, but you go through all of this, as ugly as it might get, as bad as the team might be, you're getting a 20% chance at Conradar. And you're getting about a 40% chance at one of the top two prospects. And depending on who you talk to, there's maybe two great prospects. Maybe there's three great prospects at the top of this draft. And if so, then that that changes the equation because then if you finished last,

you're guaranteed you get at least one of those because there's only two, two lottery spots up for grabs. But after that, the tear down is the easy part. And the finishing dead last is often the easy part. It is the part where you start patching it together to build back up that's tough. Yep. And you look no further in the Buffalo Sabres, right?

the most comparable, most memorable tank job that we've seen in terms of what the Blackhawks are doing was the Sabres in 2014 and 2015, and they never came out of it. And now they're back to square one. That's the worst case scenario. But, you know, have, even as you are giving your GM time and even as he is very clearly trying to buy himself time, you got to watch carefully and make sure the question to keep asking is, what is the, the plan when the tank is over. Because it can't just be that the plan is we get Connor Bedard and then he comes in and magically makes everything better. There's got to be more to it than that.

That's the hard part. And it's not unfair to be asking questions about that, even now saying what is the post-tank era going to look like and what is an actual plan in place? Or is it just hope? Because hope is not a plan. You know, and the other team I want to talk about is Calgary for a second because, look, the Flames, I think they can, they can Brad Trilliving and that group can sleep well knowing we made an aggressive offer to Johnny Guadro. We didn't lose Johnny Goodro for money. And I think Flames fans know that.

They're not mad at management for letting them walk out the door. They know that they probably never really had a chance to resign up. But Sean, this was a team that had Stanley Cup aspirations last year, not just playoff. They had, hey, we can win this whole darn thing, aspirations last year. Now they lose Goddrow. Cachuk is an RFA and that could be a sticky situation. Got some other holes. What's going on in Calgary?

Like, where are the flames going to be in six months from now? We talk about how great it is when big name stars get to free agency and then surprise us and then go somewhere and, you know, as a neutral fan, the Johnny Goddegro drama yesterday was fantastic. This is the flip side of it. This sucks for the Calgary Flames. This is really awful to lose a franchise player like this. And especially to do it in a league where it so rarely happens. And so you're left with this feeling of why us?

And the fact that it would almost be better if it was about money. It would be better if he went somewhere where the flames just couldn't couldn't match or wouldn't. You could blame a cheap owner. You could blame the cap. When it's a guy just saying, look, I'm making the choice that I want to be somewhere else. It's devastating.

And it sucks. And I mean, we saw it. Islander fans went it through with John Tavares. And, you know, you could have all the heartwarming pictures. Oh, look, he was a leaf fan as a kid. That didn't make anyone feel better there.

Because in anything, it makes them feel worse. Just like I'm sure it makes Flames fans feel worse. And so, oh, John Eggerra wanted to play close. or to home, kind of. And you're sitting there going, so, you know, we never had a chance then. You had one eye out the door the whole time. I don't know where they go from now. You know, they've got some money to spend now, I guess is the good news.

You know, any concerns over Matthew Kuchuk, but theoretically should go out the door because you've got all the cap room now. But, I mean, who do you go spend that on in free agency? It's, you know, they're in a league where there's one Johnny Gerdrow at most on the market every year. If you're the team that loses them, what do you do? I mean, could you go get Nazim Cadbury? Maybe.

But it's a dangerous situation because now the temptations go overpay for somebody. You pay too much and now you're locked into a bad contract on top of everything. I don't have any really reassuring words for Flames fans. This stinks. This is really, really hard and it's the sort of thing that, you know, it takes something out of you as a hockey fan and it kind of makes. you feel a little dumb for investing as much as you probably did,

especially with a real good team last year. They've still got pieces in place. This can still be a good team. But they're not going to be as good as they were last year. They can't be. And it's because one guy didn't want to be there. And that's his right. But it's your right as a Flames fan

to be pretty devastated by it. Yeah, I see the nickname that they've labeled Goodrow with is Johnny Walker. Because he just walked out of town. That's what they're calling him. Johnny Walker. That's all right. Not Johnny hockey.

Not too bad. That's pretty good. All right. Hey, listen, you mentioned Nazim Cadry there in terms of, hey, maybe that's what the route the flames go. We're going to get to a voicemail here in a second as we open up our mailbag and take some voicemails, emails, that type of thing. Just want to let our listeners know Jesse Granger, who usually joins us for A Little Granger Things, brought to you by BetMGM. Jesse not with us this week. He's covering the Vegas Golden Knights development camp.

Sean, by the way, fun fact, Jesse never knew that there was a development camp until this year. He was like, what do you mean? We have prospects? What? What do you do? Yeah, exactly. So now he's getting a bitter pill of realizing,

hey, wait a minute, they have kids skating around in the summertime. Nobody ever told me this. So anyway, that's where Granger is this week. So he'll hopefully join us next week. Okay, going to open up that mailbag, the athletic hockey show at gmail.com. Leave us a voicemail at 845-445. 84-59 like this guy did. This is an unknown caller from Michigan, from Ann Arbor, actually.

And I mentioned Nazim Cadry. He's got a potential landing spot. Again, we should point out when we're recording this late in the day Thursday, Nassim Cadry has yet to sign anywhere. So this caller from Ann Arbor has a potential landing spot for Nazim Cadry. With the draft over, one of the teams still desperately need the second-line center is Boston. Nassan Cadre is still available. So if he can go over to Boston, would that mean that Marchand and Cadry could be one of the most hated duos in the NHL again?

And that could totally turn Boston around. If that's the case, does Boston make another run at the cup? Thanks, guys. Love the show. All right. Boy, I never even thought about what a dynamic duo of hatred. That would be Nazim Kadri and Brad Marchand.

That would be quite the pair. What do you think? What do you think of the idea? and Asim Cadre in Boston. It's interesting. I mean, the caller says Boston doesn't have a second line center. Boston doesn't have a first line center right now because the Patrice Berger on signing that we all assume is going to happen. It has not been made official.

David Craichy sounds like he's on the way back. But again, as we're saying this, that hasn't been locked in. So, yeah, I mean, he would certainly, I tell you, they'd love the guy in Boston eventually. but the problem here, maybe it's not a problem. Boston fans can tell me, you know, you talk about Nazim Kadry, you think of the playoff suspensions, two of those came against the Bruins. He was the guy that handed the Bruins,

you know, largely two playoff series based on getting himself suspended when he was with the Leafs. Can you forgive that? Do you even need to forgive it, seeing that you won the series, so you got the last laugh? I don't know. I mean, that would be absolutely fascinating. My good, I'm trying to picture Nazim Cadry coming in Toronto

as a brewing and throwing his weight around. But I don't know. I don't see it. Certainly not if the birdie on Craichie deals happen. But if one of those were to fall through, maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, it's going to be interesting to see where Cadry ends up.

Like I said, when we are recording this podcast, he hasn't signed. So if he has signed by the time you're listening to this, obviously we did not know that. All right. Let's open up the emails here. like I said, the athletic hockey show at gmail.com. Grant writes in, says the hockey world desperately needs an in-depth reporting piece from Ian about how Eugene Melnick's daughters are running the senators

and going to lead them to their first playoff birth in six years. Well, I'll tell you what, Grant. It is a fascinating story. You know what, Sean? I don't know if he saw all the picture, Sean, but Eugene's two daughters, Anna and Olivia, were at the draft table in Montreal last week. And, you know, it's just for an organization, and we obviously did some in-depth reporting there,

for an organization that was so wrapped up in not being forward thinking and progressive, to have this be the technically the very top of the org chart, it is very cool to see. It is. It is so great to see. You know, I would love it if at some point they, I highly doubt I would. would be the person they would select to to interview them. And I totally understand. I understand.

Yeah. And I understand. I certainly respect that. Like I don't want anybody to think that I would actually be up. I have nothing but respect for those two young women. And I would never in a million years expect them to grant me five minutes of time. Like that's their decision. And I would never, I would never feel bad about that or feel like, oh,

man, I can't believe they're not, they're not speaking to me. That's, that's their prerogative. And I don't, I certainly would ever blame them. But it's a damn good story. And I don't know. I, I'd be curious if anyone's going to end up getting an interview with them. But it's, wouldn't, wouldn't you be fascinated to, to read a story about them? Absolutely.

What they're doing? What they're doing? What, uh, how much influence do they have? And, you know, even if it's just a case of picking up a phone with peer Dorian calls and says, I can get a 40 to 50 goal score. He's not going to be cheap. I can get him cheap, but he's not going to be cheap to sign. Are you on board with that?

And you get the green light? Yeah. I mean, this is what Senate fans have been waiting for for a long, long time. And yeah, it's a great story that's getting painted in Ottawa right now. Yeah. It's great. And I'm happy to see it.

Now, George has an idea for you, Sean. Okay, as usual, a lot of your really fun, quirky column ideas come from readers, listeners, what have you. Okay. George has one here. Now, actually, maybe you could, I can't remember, did we talk about your number one column last week? I feel like we did. We did. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we did.

I'd be like we probably did. But George writes in and says, listen, after reading your column last week, we did. week, I'm curious. What team could you assemble if you look at their draft history and try and put together the best team of players that when you add up where their draft position was, i.e. Austin Matthews was first overall. So that counts for one point. Could you put together a team whose draft position, including all of their numbers,

it adds up to 50 or less. Like how low could we go? How low could you go? This is pretty, I love this idea. I think Tampa Bay is the winner. I think it is. And we should point out based on George's examples that he's giving here, we're doing this by position.

So it's not three forwards. It's a center, a left winner, a right winner. That's always, as a veteran of the fake roster battles. Right. That's always the key. And it's always those damn left-wingers that they get you. But yeah, you could play with that. And there would obviously be some teams that just would not be,

would not feature prominently because they don't pick high very often. You know, Red Wing fans would be like, let us know when you do the highest total that you can get. And then we'll jump in there with all our six and seventh round lottery tickets. But yeah, I might do something like this sometime because it is, Because, you know, there are some teams have had more first round or first or high picks than others. You think of Edmonton, right? You can start McDavid Dracidal.

That's four points used to get you two pretty good forwards. You've got to find a right winger and two defensemen and a goalie. The goleys are the tough one. Goalies are always the tricky ones when it comes to high draft picks. But there's probably a few. I wonder what you could do with Montreal with Kerry Price. Yeah, because he goes fifth overall. But the problem for them is that they really haven't picked high.

I mean, they've got what? Yes, Barry Kotkinemi, you know, Slavkovsky. They have picked that, Galcanyuk. They picked high. The problem is going to pick good players high. So, and then the other obvious one would be Pittsburgh. And, I mean, Flurry and Crosby is a great way to start. But then, you know, you got Malkin and Jordan Stahl, two more centers.

You've already used that spot. Right. You know, if you can, if you can throw them on your forwards, then you're in really good shape. But even then, you've got to find the defenseman, too. It's a tricky one. You know what? Who knows? I might take a look at that one.

All right. Let's wrap it up with a little this week in hockey history. And you would think that the second week of July would be quiet in the hockey world history. But not so much. Let's go back. Let's do a couple of these. July 11th, 2001, yeah. July 11, 2001, the Pittsburgh Penguins trade Yarmier Yager to Washington.

First of all, do you remember the three guys that went back to Pittsburgh? I remember that none of them were any good. It was three prospects slash like young players. And the only one that I remember is Chris Beach was one of them. And then there was two other guys. And I don't, did any of them ever even play at all? I think, I think there was Chris Beach. there was Ross

Lupus Chuck, right? Does that ring about Ross Lupus Chuck? Am I right on that? Yeah, as if I'm going to And then there was another guy like Civic or Sveek Yeah, it was a very weird trade

because there was no Like there wasn't When we say these three guys It's not like they traded them for three first round picks And this is who they took It was three prospects No picks, no nothing

And that's just what they got. Right. And so, okay, two questions to this. Because right around the same time that this trade was made, which was Yager to Washington, that same week, if I'm not mistaken, Ottawa traded Alexei Ashen to New York and got the second overall pick, which turned out to be Jason Spezza, a gangly raw defenseman names Adano Chara and Bill McCall. Like, how could Yarmir Yager, who I think we can agree at the time, was a superior

player to Alexei Yashin? He just won the scoring title. Right. What happened here? Like, how could this be? I don't understand. And then on top of that, how do you trade him to a divisional rival who arguably, I know that I know that Pittsburgh, Washington went to next level once Sin and Ovi came on the scene,

but you got to remember, they met a bunch of them. of the playoffs in the 90s. How are you trading them within the division? Like what, like, I don't understand. If I, if I remember, Pittsburgh had just beaten Washington in the playoffs that year. I mean, look, this was obviously a financial trade. This was the, I believe, the highest pay player in the league.

And back then, I mean, he was making probably 10, 11, 12 million dollars, similar to money to what Connor McDavid makes, which is got to just, absolutely make you roll your eyes if you're an NHL star that the salary for the top guys hasn't gone up in 20 years but Pittsburgh couldn't afford them they were teetering close to bankruptcy and they had to move and for whatever reason you know there were lots of other teams that were in bad financial shape back then I guess the market just didn't materialize at all and and Washington, of course, as they come in, new owner, Ted Leonez, I think, had just appeared on the scene, wants to make a splash.

So they, you know, he agrees to go out. And this is back in the days before, you know, where contracts like a guy like Jagger could say, if I'm going to be traded, I want an extension, I want to sign a big new contract somewhere. So I guess the market just wasn't there. But then you get, you point to Yashin. And we all remember as part of that terrible trade, the island. given Alexei Ash in a 10-year mega contract. Why didn't Mike, well, you know,

I just answered my own question. Why didn't Mike Milberry do the reasonable, okay, never mind, I don't need to go any further than that. Crazy. It is. It's nuts to me, though, that Yager went for what he did when he was really at the pinnacle of his career. Okay, one other this week in hockey history

to take it back to July 14, 1999, where Pat Quinn, who already was the head coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs, Also, that summer, assume the general manager's duties. In the middle of July, 1999, he takes over GM head coach. Here's my question. Do we ever see a full-time head coach GM again? Man, probably not.

I mean, it's just so specialized these days. There's so many different roles. The front offices are getting so big. I don't see a team ever doing it. I mean, do we even see? and you can help me with this. Are there guys out there like Pat Quinn or Mike Keenan or Brian Murray

or those sorts of guys anymore that even can do both jobs? Like, other than you will occasionally see a GM step behind the bench very briefly. You will occasionally hear that there's a coach out there who wants to move up to front office, but it's usually a one-way move.

I know there have been some Some whispers that Barry Trots might be interested in some front office power where he goes next. And certainly he'd be a guy with the stature to demand it. But, you know, it used to be that there were guys like Quinn and Murray and those guys that your team would hire them. And you'd go, oh, as what? As GM or as coach or as both? Because, you know, they were viewed as jobs that had similar skill sets. And it just feels like these days it's so specialized that you would never see that again.

But I would like to. It was cool. I like Pat Quinn as coach and GM of the Leafs. That was a great era. That was all sorts of fun. I don't know if the dual role had something to do with that, but it certainly puts one guy's personality stamp right on the team. And if it's a guy like Pat Quinn whose personality rocked,

you can end up having a pretty good team out of it. Yeah, you know, you're right. I feel like that era is gone and done with. Like, I could see, I mean, Trots would fit the bill because he seems to have expressed interest. Like I could see one of those like Don Waddell Lou Lamarillo's like

things are off the rail so they pop down and they coach for eight games yeah type of thing I don't just don't see it full time you know

like you said I think things are too specialized now yeah well I mean and maybe it flips the other way that you could say

that because the front officers are so specialized hey the GM doesn't do it all anymore I got the cap I'm at to do the cap.

I've got my assistant GM to negotiate the contracts. I got the scout to do this. I've got the analytics guys. Yeah, I could be the, not even the figurehead, but I could be the boss of that group and also be coaching the team. Maybe, you know, you could see it at some point, but it certainly does feel like that is something that has been left in the past. Yeah.

All right. Listen, we will leave it there. Is there any way, when we connect next week, there's no way that the next seven days can match the nuttiness of the previous seven, right? Are we... No. Absolutely none. No. There is no chance at all.

I'm not even sure we need to do a show next week because there's absolutely no chance. And just feel us like just poking the hockey gods in the chest right here, just daring them to try to get them to drop a big story on us the next few days, preferably on Wednesday. Exactly. That's what we'll hold for. All right. We'll leave it there. I want to thank everybody for listening to this. Thursday edition of The Athletic Hockey Show.

We'll get you again next week, like I said. Email us to The Athletic Hockey Show at gmail.com. Leave us a voicemail at 8454-445. And if you're not a subscriber with us at The Athletic, you can join us at Theathletic.com slash hockey show. Get an annual subscription for a dollar a month in the first six months. You can also subscribe to the Athletic Audio Plus. At Apple podcast, get our entire library of bonus content from the network.

We'll start with a 30-day free trial. and then it's just 99 cents a month. I'll be back.