The Athletic Hockey Show - Johnny Gaudreau & Nazem Kadri remain unsigned on a busy first day of NHL Free Agency

Episode Date: July 13, 2022

Rob Pizzo and Jesse Granger welcome guest co-host Shayna Goldman to look back on the first day of NHL free agency.The roundtable discusses why Johnny Gaudreau and Nazem Kadri, the bluechip pieces available in free agency have yet to sign new deals.We take a look at an active day with Claude Giroux, Andre Burakovsky, Darcy Kuemper, Ben Chiarot, Andrew Copp, Vincent Trocheck, Jack Campbell and Ilya Samsonov changing jerseys for next season.Plus Tampa Bay locking up a number of their players to long term deals, Evgeni Malkin and Evander Kane remaining with Pittsburgh and Edmonton, Brent Burns being dealt to Carolina and who, along with Kadri and Gaudreau is still out there, waiting to be plucked by cash happy NHL general managers. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Well, what's going on, everybody? Welcome to another fantastic. Maybe I shouldn't call it fantastic until we're done. It could suck. I don't want it to suck. I think it's going to be a great edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. I am Rob Fiesel from CBC Sports, joined, as always, by Jesse Granger, who's in Vegas, which is 100 and how many degrees right now, and your air conditioning just cacked out?

112, yeah, air conditioning does not work right now. Closest time is Friday night, and it is Wednesday afternoon. right now. Yes, dire straits here in Vegas. You poor bastard. So yeah, if he's out of breath by the end of this podcast, you know, he's just sweating and can't breathe. Sarah Sivian is busy doing, you know, her job and actually listening to press conferences for the team she covers. So Shana Goldman is jumping over the boards for us. How are you, Shana? I'm good. Thanks for having me. Not that you're not doing your job. You've been busy. No, no, no. I don't work. I'm taking the day off. I'm done for the year.

This is, I always happen. There's always somebody in your office. It's like, I'm not going to be there on trade deadline day. You're like, really? Or free agent day or whatever day. But guys, three of us are here. And it's been an interesting, I don't want to even just say today. It's been an interesting week, let's say.

And we're going to get to all the big signings that happened today and that trades and a little bit of everything. But I think we got to begin with the two guys that still are technically unrestricted free agents right now. Johnny Gujarro and Nazim Codry. And we'll start with Gujarro, guys. Gets offered an absolute boatload of money to stay in Calgary, an eight-year deal, says thank you, but no thanks. Last night tells the Calgary Flames, I'm moving on. I'm testing free agency.

It is 406 Eastern time right now, and as of this recording, he still does not have a hockey team, but we were kind of chatting before we started recording this thing. I mean, what's the rush? This has to be a fun process for someone like Johnny Goudreau, just to say, all right, let me hear all the offers. Shana, if all the reports are true,

you might be seeing a lot of Johnny Hockey in the near future. What do you think of the holdup and where do you think he ends up? I almost feel like if he was going to go to New Jersey, it would have been done already. Like if you wanted to go there, they have the money. They cleared cap space. They won an impact winger. The stars align.

and the whole nine yards, but like, wouldn't the deal be done already unless like he's seeing if anyone can match or exceed that? I mean, look, he's deciding where he's going to live for the next seven years of his life and maybe like finish his career. We don't know. And I think everyone forgets that. Like, you get drafted by a team and they're like, okay, you can play for us or you can wait three years for your rights to expire. And then you're going to stay with us because even when your contract's up, you're still stuck with us. So you can beg for a trade and we'll send you where we want you to go, what benefits us. like the system sucks for players so if players want to like take 3.2 seconds and be like hey where am i

going to go for the next seven years of my life go off enjoy you should you've earned that and when you're an elite player like johnny godrow it's not like any do teams even know how to handle this are they used to elite players reaching free agency probably not that they're like oh shit do we offer him 10 11 million dollars like i don't know so the hold up is fine i think there's still a good chance of it being New Jersey, but, like, part of me is thinking it's going to be some spicy team. No one expected that's still, like, relatively close to the east, you know, to Philly or whatever, to South Jersey. Like, what if it's someone like Boston just like comes in with like a banger contract?

Like someone random, I think would be fun because if you wanted the Rangers around, sorry, the Islanders or Devils, it would be done. Yeah, I totally agree with pretty much everything Shana said, both in the fact that these players should be able to take their time. Not only should they be able to, I think we should encourage it. I think free agency in like when I like as a big NFL fan, free agency is wild. I'm a Broncos fan. I will never forget the Peyton Manning sweepstakes where he's flying from city to city

visiting the teams and they have like helicopters following his car to the facility. We need that in hockey. In the NBA, that's every day. It feels like every day there's a story like that in the NBA where these players are touring the league being schmused by every team and seeing which one like you never know. But like I feel like some teams, maybe if you didn't talk to the people at that team and understand their vision, you wouldn't give them a second thought. But if you talk to them, suddenly things change. I think we should encourage players to take a little longer, not signing

three seconds after the free agency open market opens when they weren't even supposed to be discussing these deals prior. And I also agree with Shane that it seems a little weird that it's not done if it was just, I'm going home to New Jersey. The whole narrative prior to today when he, when when he announced he wasn't going back to Calgary was he wants to go home. Well, if he wanted to go home, the team that the devils have, like she said, they have the cap space. There's no reason for that deal not to be done yet. I think he's considering going home, but I think he's going to check out what other teams have to say. And I think maybe he wants to stay east, but there are some really good teams with cap space. The Colorado Avalanche have a lot of

cap space, despite just winning the Stanley Cup. Stop it. Stop it. So I think it would be fun if another spicy team jumped in there. I agree with Shana. It's going to be fun. I hope we get some reports over the next couple of days. I hope this drags out and we get some. We're not just sitting here waiting with nothing. I hope we get some.

He's flying here. He's talking to this team. He's meeting at his home with this team. That would be fun. I want to know what teams are doing to sway him. Like, this is his teammate from when they were children and they're totally besties and he's going to be the one to present it. Like, I need something better than that.

Like they flew out a private jet. They had a Lamborghini waiting for him at the. the airport to whip over to the stadium, they had 10 pairs of shoes waiting for him or all you could eat. I need something. It needs to be like next level stuff to be bribing him. And then all the other winger free agents are going to be seeing their twiddling their thumbs. I've been saying this for years. I've been saying this for years. We need an HBO 24-7 on this. Yes. I want to be in that room. And even if it's long afterwards and suddenly we see some sort of, I want to see the pitches because we know the money.

Johnny Guidro is going to get a big race. I'm not breaking any news here. But I want to know exactly what Shane has said. I want to know the little things that they're going to promise to entice him. Or the phone calls that come from, like you said, the besties saying, hey, buddy, come on. Come on. We want you to come here. That's what I want to know.

You talked, Jesse, about the different sports. I mean, I'm in Toronto. When Kauai became a free agent right after the Raptors won the NBA championship, he said, oh, I want these negotiations quiet. And I turned on the TV and there's helicopters following the man. Actually, sorry, there were helicopters following a car they thought had Kauai in it. And I'm going, this is like a reality show, but it was fun. And there's no deadline on this.

It's not trade deadline day. We're not waiting for three o'clock Eastern time and say, okay, well, you're done. No, this is take your time. And, you know, like Shane has said, like we're all expecting at 1202 for all these signings to come flying it. if I'm Johnny Goodro and you've got to figure out where you're going to spend the next seven years of your life, you make sure it's exactly what you want. And then you got Nazim Khadry, who made it very clear after winning the Stanley Cup. Anyone who doubted him as a playoff player can kiss his ass.

Well, he has spent the last probably four hours and 12 minutes letting teams kiss his ass because he hasn't announced either. he's a guy who's going to earn himself the right. He has earned himself the right to go wherever the hell he wants for however much a team wants to pay him. What are your thoughts on cadre, Jesse? I mean, I think he's going to get overpaid. I'm going to be a little concerned about the contract

just because of the massive season he just had and the supporting cast he played with. It's unlikely he's going to have linemates like he had in Colorado wherever he goes. I mean, I'm not saying that's impossible, but it seems like he's going to step into a harder spot. And a guy coming off of a career year on a team that's stacked where literally just being on the ice, you're going to put up points. I'm a little concerned for whoever pays Cadry all that money.

Having said that, it's not like he's going to be a complete bust and you're not getting a usable player. I mean, he's going to be very good. I just don't know if he's going to be worth what he gets paid. Shana has been doing roster contract projections all morning. I'd love to hear her thoughts on it. I want to see more teams, more players take short-term deals. That's what I want. Like instead of it being, like we're looking at this, like he's a free agent, he's going to go to the market. Like,

it means you're going to walk out of there with seven years, six years and all this money. So a team swayed you to join them. And that's all great, wonderful and it's totally normal. But it would be cool to see a player be like, I'll just take one year, $11 million. Something like really bold. And then if you're good, take $9 million the next. And if you're good after that, you could sign for two years at five and a half or something like that. Like he had a good contract. It's not like he's had some like incredible deal where he made all his money like someone like, I don't know, Malkin. Like if he signed like that, it would be a little bit different. But I don't know. Like it's really tough because he's 31 years old. We know players tend to decline into the 30s and, you know, it can decline a little bit quicker. You know, once you get into

your mid 30s, it's a little unpredictable. What helps him is that he's a volume shooter and volume shooters tend to less a little bit longer than just a sniper, which is great and wonderful. But again, you're playing on a different team and it feels like the money he's going to get. get it's going to be first line caliber money. And again, he's earned that. That's great, wonderful for him. But I am hoping, not hoping, I mean, whatever he does, he does, good for him. But I would like to see in general a player like him go, I'll just take one year at a really, really, really, really lucrative contract and kind of like figure out your way from there. Shane is doing the podcast at a craps table. Just rolling the dice on one year deals.

I would be with you if it wasn't a contact sport. I understand players wanting to secure themselves seven years at millions and millions of dollars. That's the whole issue. If I'm a player, I want security. I want all my money. And we've seen him at surgery during the playoffs. He did come back. But I mean, who knows what goes on injury-wise.

But yeah, 31 years old, you're right. It's one of those things. But that's why, ironically, shockingly, players always just have such a great year in their contract year, guys. I don't know if we can figure out what it always happens. I agree with Shana that I'd like to see players take shorter deals. But for me, like, I don't know. I don't think Cadre's in that spot. Like, to me, Cadry had the best season he's ever going to have in his whole life. Like, that was it for him. Like, it's never going to get better than that. To me, this is your stock is as high as it's ever going to get. Get as many years at your current stock as you can get. But like, I totally agree with the premise, especially players like the elite of the elite, Connor McDavid, Austin Matthews. If Connor McDavid had taken a two or three year deal in Edmonton for a ridiculous amount, he can, He has so much more control over what happens there because it's what you like we keep going back to NBA. It's what LeBron James does in the NBA is I'm going to sign a one year deal.

That way, you have to do whatever I say or I'll just leave next year. And I think player, like for some players, a cadry to me is that, and especially guys who are mid-level where it's like you could drop off and suddenly you're not worth anything next year. But an elite player like McDavid, Matthews, even maybe a good row, players like that that there's the talent's not going anywhere. That guy's going to be worth $10 million for as long as he wants, as long as he can play. I think those guys should consider shorter deals to control more, to not be stuck in a situation where you're on a team that can't compete for seven years and you can change situations if you need to.

And also, the TV money that we're seeing come in has been bigger than we expected from ESPN. We've seen it in other sports. When the TV money goes up, the contracts go up. And I think you don't want to lock yourself into an eight-year deal right now. when $10 million is a lot of money and five years or three years from now, suddenly top players are making $15, $17, $17 million, why did I sign that deal? I could be making way more now. So I think there are plenty of reasons to sign shorter deals, but it's got to be someone who's very secure in their status.

Yeah, like if Austin Matthews or Braden point, like they were going for the shorter deals and it made sense, especially with like the flat cap, why would you sign an eight year deal when you saw the cap wasn't going up? And even now, that certainty. So you're right with Kodry though, because it could be the drop off. But like even if you went like if a team was saying we'll give you $7 million a year for four years or something, but another team was like, well, we'll give you $11 for two like or $11 for $9 for three. Like those are the kind of structure. It's like Max Pasciretti. I liked his deal.

It was $7 million a year for four years. Like I like that kind of like mid-range instead of locking it up as much. But it would be so fun if players took control because $12 million for two years might be great. But guess what? If everything goes up and you could, I don't know, pull $18 the next or something absolutely wide. because you can't have that variance, you know, as much, that would be fun. But we don't allow fun in this league, so. We'll get to the ones from today in just a second.

I do want to mention the two extensions that happened yesterday. Evgeny Malkin, who looked like he was going to be testing the free agent market. It actually seemed like it was getting a little bitter, little spicy, which seems like the word of the podcast today, with him and the Penguins. And according to some reports, Sidney Crosby picked up. the phone and kind of said, we've got to get this thing done. He's staying in Pittsburgh four years with a 6.1 AAV, which is down 3.4 a year from what he was making on his previous contract, but we expected that. So now that core with Latang and Crosby together at least another

three years. Your thoughts on that one, because that one kind of makes me start grabbing the collar, go, we're on the wrong side of father time on this one for this core to keep thinking they are a Stanley Cup contender. Shane, we'll start with you. So I don't mind the contract as much. I think in the last year is the one year that you're going to be like, not great. But we know that elite players, even when they decline,

their level of decline might be so much better than, say, the average forward whose peak and isn't near what an elite player could do. So I like the idea of keeping their core together. That one doesn't give me pause. It's the Raquel deal that I look at. And I'm like, that one's going to age poorly. history of injuries, some of his comparable players the way that they've dropped off. That's the one to me.

That's the red flag. If they just did that Malkin deal and that was it and then they figured out the rest of their roster, I think it's another conversation. But the fact that they one started with Rakel, two, gave him as much as they did was a little bit odd to me. And like, I don't know if maybe they thought, okay, we don't have Malkin now. Let's hand Raquel the deal. Like, you know, we don't know like the inner workings of it and whatever.

But the Malkin deal I'm okay with. I think he's someone too that could have gone wherever. He literally, he's made his money. He could have said to any team, I want to go content for a year. I'm going to take a $2 million deal and then just play it out year by year if he wanted to and just have fun with it. I think from the penguins, you expect that. It's like a respect level thing. Like you gave Latang the money to keep him and keep the core together. Then you expect the same. And I understand that. Yeah. My thoughts on the deal are boo. I was booing my phone last night. Literally booing my phone in my living room because Malkin hitting the free agency market was going to be the most fun part of today. And right before we got there, he snatched it from us.

We already had the reports that he was hitting the, I'm not coming back to Pittsburgh. I'm testing the open market. Got me so excited. And then he stays in Pittsburgh, the most boring possible outcome. I think it's good for Malkin. I don't know if this, I agree. I think this core may have reached. I think the window may be closed unless they hit on some player that we're not expecting

that comes out of nowhere that can maybe rejuvenate them. And Pittsburgh has a way of doing that sometimes. but and Crosby has a way of turning some random person into a star winger next to him. But if that doesn't happen, it seems like the window is closed. It seems more like this is just kind of a ride off into the sunset for these guys. Crosby and Malkin and Littang and they're all just going to play together and be happy and they're probably not going to win anything. They'll probably win, but they're not going to win a cup. And to me, it's just the biggest takeaway from this deal is it just made today not nearly as much fun as it was going to be. And finally, Evander Cain,

Sticking around with the Edmonton Oilers, four years, $20.5 million. I can't believe we're talking about this because if you rewind how many months back, Jesse, you and me and Sarah were talking about whether or not we're ever going to see Van der Kaine playing the NHL again. And here he is getting four years with the Oilers. Nobody really doubted his ability as a hockey player. They doubted his ability to be a good teammate and a good, let's face it, a good person. and he seemed to fit with Edmonton. I mean,

playing with Connor McDavid will definitely help in that category. But your thoughts on Evander Cain, sticking around for four more years. Jesse, we'll start with you. Yeah, I mean, I think it's pretty easy to fit with Connor McDavid. I think pretty much anyone with any little bit of talent put him next to that guy, he's going to score a bunch of goals. I think he cashed in off this playoff run.

I don't like from a skill standpoint, the number isn't bad. I think it's right about where he should be. But considering his history and even now, there's like, I'm not even going to get into it, but he's in the middle of drama constantly. Even now, in the middle of this, he's in the middle of this still drama. So much baggage. To me, I wouldn't sign that player. To me, I'll find, there's got to be someone out there that I can pay a little less that can do

just as much with Connor McDavid that I don't have to constantly be worrying if he's going to be in trouble tomorrow. I wouldn't have done it. But at the same time, you look at the skill on the ice. the numbers match up with the skill on the ice if you ignore all the off ice stuff. I can't ignore the all five stuff. And that is where my head. Yeah.

Like if I'm Edmonton, I think, okay, if we strictly talk about the signing for anything else, we talk about like the dollars and sense of it. I do think it's kind of funny that he wanted. He was, I think it was $8 million from another team, $7 million from Edmonton. And he put that out there. And obviously that's his starting point, you know, for bargaining. But the fact that he didn't get it, I do think is funny because that's what you get for being cocky when you honestly don't have a like to stand on.

It's nice you had a nice playoff run alongside Connor McDavid, but I'm sure most fourth-liners in the league could have a nice... I would say if I got the opportunity to play with Connor McDavid for 82 games, I could score at least two NHL goals. And I've never played hockey at any level. So if we put the scale up for someone with actual NHL skill and then a VanderKeen, I mean, sure, you had a nice playoff run. That's great and wonderful.

And everyone's going to say he's a good teammate because I don't expect otherwise. It's hockey. Do you expect a player to come out and be like, yeah, he sucked as a human? It's never going to happen. So I think the fact that he didn't get the number he asked for is quite funny. And the fact that he did settle with that with Edmonton is too. Like it's kind of a loss for him in a sense. I would not have given him anything with term. If you really insist on keeping him for the on ice reasons, I would not have given him anything with term. I don't think he's earned that opportunity. So even if it was one year six million, that's the better gamble or one year seven million versus any sort of term at all because you have no idea what's going to happen. And then you consider every. everything else that's coming out about him some more. And there's always something. You know, it just isn't in poor taste. And I think the way the oilers handled it is also in poor taste, you know, posting a Twitter picture with his kids and things like that. All of it's just

poorly done. It's bad on the Oilers. It's bad on Kane, who I expected to be bad on. And it just leaves like a bad taste in your mouth, all of it. You know, one of these days, Shian, are you going to come out of your shell and tell us what you really think? I know. I do that. I, everything you just said, I agree with. This wasn't a man who made one mistake and you can say, you know what, to give him a second chance. It's just there's a laundry list of it and there probably will be a laundry list. Like you said, if it was a one year six, one year six million, at least you can say, okay, we're doing this purely based on what you did in the playoffs. And if something happens, we cut bait and get the hell out. I was pretty surprised to see four years. What we're going to do

is we're going to take a break. After the break, we'll get to today, guys. Claude Jeru, now a member of the Ottawa centers, a whole bunch of goalies going left. right and center. And I don't know if you guys know this. Jesse loves talking about goalies. Andrew Cops in Detroit, Detroit made a lot of big moves. Ottawa obviously was very busy as well. We'll get to all of that right after the break. All right, guys, let's get right to it. One of the top names on the list was Claude Giroux. Had a pretty good 21-22 season. A lot of people wondering where he was going to go, and then it was pretty obvious where he was going to go. We talked about coming home with Johnny

Goodro. Well, Claude Drew wanted to do that as well. The Ottawa Senators, inking him to a three-year deal, 6.5 million A, A, V, Shana. I've been really enjoying reading yourself and Dom and Sean Gentile on the Athletic, breaking down every trade. I know you broke down this one. So let us know the grade you gave, not only on the deal, but on the contract terms as well. So I actually like this trade. And I think, I mean, signing.

I don't know why I said trade either. It's okay. My brain is completely melted today. I like the signing. I think it's a little bit tricky too when you get into a player's mid-30s, but like we're talking about before at Malkin, when you're an elite player, your ceiling's very high, your decline is still probably very high, and his is. Do we expect him to be the shooter he was of years past and put up 100 points? Probably not, and probably not on this team. But he's still a very versatile forward. He's good on both ends of the ice. He can play center a wing. He can set up his teammates. He can take faceoffs. He can score goals. He can do a little bit of everything. And I think that's what Ottawa needs right now, especially if they're shipping out Connor Brown, which it sounds like they are. And they already lost. Nick Paul. So that's two utility players that did a little of everything. Now you have Drew who can come in and play in all situations and help out your offense and defense however you need it. The term I think is fine three years. I think six point five million, you know, maybe it's a little higher than I thought it would be. But I don't

think it's a bad deal because they have the cap space to do it. And I think even in the last year, if you look at it and you go, oh, it's a little bit rough. I think the first years will make up for it. And if you were to retire, it's not like they're saddled with his cap hit. You know, if this isn't a 35 plus, 35 plus deal. He's only 34. So I like it overall. And I think so many players are talking about going home and we have no pajama shots. So it's really, it's a disappointing day. He's never going to live that doubt, is he? No, he's just the pajama shot. How does Plygeru signing with Ottawa Effect the Leafs? Who knew? Yeah. I was, I was joke, gonna joke, we need to get Shana over to Johnny Goddrow's mom's house and get some photos of his

pajamas. And that will tell us where he's going to, where he's going to sign. That'll be my first piece of major reporting. Who knew? I'm running over to John the Grove's house like, hey, hi, Mrs. Cadrow. I honestly love what Ottawa is doing this summer. It's weird. I, like, I just wrote a piece. Isn't that a weird sentence to say? Yeah. I was thinking the same thing all day. Yeah. So, I'll give credit. Brady Tritonero tweeted it out. He goes, potential top six for Ottawa next year. A top line of Kachuk, Norris, Batherson. Second line of Jureu, Stutzel. and de Brinket. Sign me up. That sounds like a fun team mixed. You got some veterans. You've got some obviously established stars. You've got some young players that are on the on the come up. And they

improved at goaltending while spending less on goaltoning. They went from an expensive Matt Murray to a cheap can Talbot. Talbot's way better than Murray, in my opinion. I think they got better in goal. I think they got draft capital by getting rid of Murray, which is a phenomenal move for them. they get another established veteran to mix with this with this group of young players who are really really coming into their own um it's ottawa it feels like somehow it's not going to work because it's the senators but man do i like everything they're doing it's fun who knew who knew the ottawa senators can be fun like their defense still is trash and they have to work on that because like their goaltenders did a good job like managing the chaos last year and i give forsburg

a lot of credit for that but if they can make a couple defensive improvements and like You said like the line Stutzel and Drew, like if Stutzel doesn't work at center, which he was better at this year and he does shift back to win, you have Drew who can slot down the middle. And if you want someone for Stutzel that I learned from and you have called Drew right there, that's a huge win. You know, I heard the interview with Drew right after the trade or the signing. Man, I keep thinking it's trade deadline day. The signing happened. And, you know, it was alluded to as this a playoff team in a Stanley Cup team. He said, I wouldn't have come here if it wasn't. Now I know everybody says that once they sign with a team or get trained. made it to a team. But is this a playoff team? Are they a couple moves away from being a playoff team? Jesse, you're shaking your head. Yes, I mean, up and down.

I think they're going to be borderline. I think they're going to be, I think, I mean, the NHL, the parody is so close. You're going to have teams. I mean, the East was like such a weird, this is such a weird year where the East was like, and here are the eight teams. And it was that way from halfway through the season. But for the most part, you don't get that. And I do think Ottawa will be at least in the running.

And it'll just depend on like Stutzel and those guys, like how they progress. If they take another step, yeah, I think they're a playoff team. If not, then, yeah, they'll probably fall a little short. I think they're right there, though. I feel like they're going to be the disruptors. Like, they're going to be the team that you need a couple points and you think, like, Ottawa's going to be that easy team to beat. And it's like they're not letting their opponents get those points.

I think the Atlantic is so good. I wonder if the metro kind of falls off a bit because we could look at it and be like, well, Philly, you know, who knows what the islanders are going to do to improve. There's like a lot of Pittsburgh. Like, is this? Did they extend it? Like, so maybe they could be like a wildcard team. but if not, I could see them, like, falling short.

It all depends on the defense. If they can get, like, one more defensemen, maybe two, maybe, like, tweak their defensive systems a little bit. Like, I think that they'd be in a really good situation. So if not this year, like, it would surprise me if next year they weren't, like, a team that's a little closer to that second wildcard seed. Crazy thing is all the teams at the bottom of the Atlantic improved today. So I think the Atlantic is looking a lot more interesting than it was this year.

Jesse alluded to this, their change between the pipes. And there's been a huge goal of carousel over the last week. Let me quickly just recap a couple of them, and I want you guys to tell me which one is the most intriguing, good or bad, whether you like it or you don't.

So Matt Murray and Elias M. Sampsonoff are now the goaltenders in Toronto. Darcy Kemper is a capital. Cam Talbot is senator. Jack Campbell is an oiler for five years. You got Grice is a blue. You got Giorgio to the avalanche. You got Halak as a ranger.

Which one really jump. out to you. Like I said, good or bad? Shana? Let's go Jack Campbell, because I think that is going to be, if you have a crease of Campbell and Smith, that is going to be the most hot and cold, chaotic crease that you put together, which is saying something after Smith and Koskinan. But like Smith and Koskenen, we expected to be bad. So the chaos was like, okay, sure, this is what we all anticipated. And Jack Campbell can be like really, really, really good or really terrible. And the same with Mike Smith. So I think that's just everything about it. It's just going to be wild.

the media is going to be wild with it. It's going to be so much fun. So that one intrigues me the most. But we can agree it's an improvement, right? I would think so. I would think. Yeah. Jesse? Mr. Goli? I think it's definitely an improvement. I think Campbell's a big step up. I think even if, if I actually just wrote a piece about the goalie carousel, like ranking my, like each team and how well I think they did that I'm not sure when it's either running today or tomorrow. but I think if they can get Jack Campbell from last year or the first half of this year, home run, home run. If they get the Jack Campbell for the rest of his career, it's okay.

I think it could be a slight overpay. I think it could be kind of right around where that value belongs, but I think if they can get, like Shane said, he's hot and cold. He's not as consistent as some other goalies. I think it can be a home run. And I also think Edmonton doesn't necessarily need the best goaltending to win. We saw that this year. Mike Smith was horrendous, and they made it to the Wester Conference final.

For me, the most intriguing one is the best goalie to change teams, and that's Darcy Kemper. And for me, it's intriguing because he only got $5.25 million. And I know people are afraid of paying goalies. I understand it. I know that the way the Bobrovsky contract went, everyone is just terrified to hand out money for goalies. But we're talking about, to me, one of the five best, five, six best goalies. in the NHL who just won the Stanley Cup.

And 5.25 million is an insanely low number. He is the 13th highest paid goal in the league right now. To me, Darcy Kemper, whatever you, like everyone is overreacting to. He wasn't that great in the playoffs. He won the freaking Stanley Cup, okay? And during the regular season, he was top five. Behind a very, very, very, very, very good hockey team. Yes, yes, he did.

But if, if this, okay, last year I was yelling from the mountain tops, do not believe in Philip Grubauer, these are lies. These numbers are lies. And then he went to Seattle and exactly what I thought would happen, happened. Darcy Kemper wasn't some bad goalie who got behind his talented Colorado team and suddenly looked good. Last year, during the regular season, he was elite. I think he was fourth or fifth in goals saved above expected. If you go back to his years behind an awful Arizona team, the last four seasons, if you take just the last four seasons in the NHL, goalies with more than a hundred starts, Darcy Kemper is first in save percentage, just above Andre Vasselowski in four years. And three of those were in Arizona. This isn't,

he wasn't playing behind this stacked Colorado team. To me, there's no way to argue over the last four years, Darcy Kemper hasn't been a top four or five goalie in the NHL. And the fact that Washington got him and he's still relatively young, he's not like hitting a wall or anything. The fact that they got him for 5.25 million, the 13th highest paid goal in the league is a home run signing to me. For me, it's what the Leafs did. Matt Murdo. and Neelya Simsohnoff. I know people look at Matt Murray and they say he's got two rings. What have we seen since those two rings?

You've seen a guy who, like, he's one of those goaltenders that automatically you say, okay, well, the upside could be up because he's done it before. But what happens when, not if when this man gets injured? Okay, well, then they go and sign Eli Samsonoff for a million eight for one year. you're really depending on two guys to have bounce back years. Not exactly confidence building if you're a fan of this Toronto Maple Leafs team. I just, I know a lot of people will say, well, what was out there that you possibly go get? And is the upside to a Matt Murray a two-time Stanley Cup champion, great?

Sure. But to me, if you're a Leaf fan, if you're the Toronto Maple Leafs, your biggest question mark is still between the pipes. Agree or disagree? agree. Agree. Like Matt Murray, if you look back at his seasons, his last actually good season was in like 2016-17. He had one average season, I think, in 18, 19, and then he had outright bad years.

And last year, I think he was very good in Ottawa in 14 games after he was brought back up from the HL, but then what happened? He got hurt. So I see like the upside. I think it's a, you know, you can bet on it a bit, but I think it's super, super risky. when the next two years you should be trying to be very good before Matthews' contract expires. And Samson also, I would not trust. Yeah, I just wrote for the third straight, or sorry, for the second straight off season,

the Maple Leafs have downgraded their goalie. I thought Freddie Anderson was a solid to very good goalie in Toronto. They decided to move on and I understood it because it's like we've tried this a few times. It hasn't worked. Let's try something else. I thought Jack Campbell wasn't quite as good as Freddie, but he was still a pretty good goalie. And despite his second half of the season where he kind of tailed off.

And I think they just got worse again. I think Matt Murray, even at his best, is not as good of a goalie as Jack Campbell. I think it's an expensive risk also. It's like Matt Murray, it's not like this, you're getting this guy for dirt cheap. And like, let's pray to God. He goes back to that two-time cup five years ago form. it's an expensive risk. And to be honest, the only saving grace is the fact that they've, to me, is that they went out and got another option. I think it's still not a great option, but the fact that

you've got Sampsonov in there, I think it's just two lottery tickets and hopefully one of these guys is capable. I mean, the Leafs had 115 point season last year, and they had the sixth worst safe percentage in the league. So they got not great goal-tending, and they were still, and they elite team. So you don't need your goalie to carry you. I think they've got two lotto tickets in Samsonov and Murray and they're just praying that one of them hits. I'm not too optimistic that they will, but maybe they will. Like I said, that team in front of them is really good. Yeah. Like I said, it's tough when you've got a team that's supposed to be a Stanley Cup contender with two lottery tickets in that. That's the problem for me. And one of the lottery tickets is

injury prone. So I mean, it's to me, that one was one of those ones where if you're a follower of this team. You definitely have some question marks. Okay, guys, obviously there were a lot of signings. I'm going to just rattle off a couple, and you guys tell me the ones that you want to talk about are the ones that jumped out to you. You got Andrew Kopp going to Detroit. I want to talk about the Red Wings, a little more in a second. Trocheck is now a Ranger for seven years. You got McKayev to Vancouver. Mason Marchman, a member of the Dallas Stars. Colorado had a couple guys sticking around. Josh Manson and Valerie Nakushkin still sticking around. Ben Sharott to Detroit as well. I'm just kind of going through some of the bigger ones. Jesse, we'll start with you on this one.

What jumped out to you when you looked at it? What made your eyebrows rise a little bit when you saw the side? Yeah, I like what Detroit's doing. I think you look at the Red Wings and they're obviously have been really bad for a couple years. And last year was like really the first signs we've seen of them maybe taking a step towards becoming relevant again. And they've got some really good young players. I think Steve Eiserman decided, okay, we've got the young. core that we think we can build around. Let's start adding some pieces to where these, give these guys a chance to actually win some games, because I do think that's important. I think when you have these young players, it's great to be bad for a few years. Look at Colorado.

They stacked up those high first round picks. But at the same time, if you've got a more at Cider and his first four or five years are nowhere near the playoffs, I do think that can stunt the development. I think it's good to get some solid players around these kids. And I think Izerman feels like this is the time to do it. I like what they did in net. Despite it kind of being similar to the Nadelcovich thing, I like bringing Vili Huso in. I know he's coming off one year where he was good and not much sample size other than that, but I like what the Red Wings are doing. I think this is the right time in where they are to kind of finally go into free agency and try to get some players to help him win. Yeah, you look at Huso, you mentioned in that, Kopp, Sharat,

and now, Baran as well. Like, if you have that on your whiteboard after free agency, I think you're happy. I think Steve Eisenman's done a good job. What about you, Sheena? Yeah, I like that. I think, too, they have a healthy verana, which they only had at the end of the season. I think Peron versus Verona is some really good scoring cop. I think is a good defensive player. He really could play anywhere, any situation, any way you need him to. And I think that's good because they need a defensive support. Like, if you have, he's a bit more of a passer. So if you have someone, you know, him partnered up with Dylan Larkin, and you're giving Larkin defensive support because I think that that line in the second half of the year allowed a lot back on the rush.

You know, now you have that. It might help them a little bit like stay in games because I'm sure once you allow a goal or two, it probably is tough to stay in the game and things just kind of fall apart. And you saw that drop off in the second half of the year. I do think some of the timelines are a little bit funky for players because I think they have the cab space now, but in a couple years you might look at them be like, that might hurt a little bit. But if anyone can navigate it, I'm sure it's going to be, you know,

Detroit and Eisenman. The only one that kind of, not kind of definitely makes me raise my eyebrows is Ben Chirot. Got to talk about the lightning guys. Two games away from, or two wins away from a three-peat for the Stanley Cup. And they are not letting up on the gas at all. Signing a couple RFA's, you know, Surgachev, 8 years, 76 million. Sirelli, 8 years, 50 million. I watched this team throughout the playoffs. We talk so much about how good they look. This is hardly a team that now falls off because the, you know, the run, the Stanley Cup run is done. What do you think of what the lightning did, at least early on right now, to make sure there's still a competitive hockey team.

Chana? I don't mind the Sorrelli deal at all. I think that he's a really good defensive center, Selky Calibur. And I think they kind of figured out kind of the perfect position for him to play, which was with players like Hegel and Cologne and just be total pains in the S's play against. And even if they're not getting on the score sheet, they were driving play and, you know, forcing their opponents to not just play offense but play defense. So I like that for them. I think if they waited, maybe they could have risked him adding the offense to his game. I know he had a bad year

in 2021. So like that's the one drawback for them. And I think that there's a little bit of a risk because he doesn't have as much offense. But if he started scoring, that contract probably caused him a bit more. So I don't have a problem with that. Surgative deal I do like. It makes sense after moving out McDonough. Now he can be, you know, top four defensemen on the left side. He's been on the third pair and he's been really good, so why not invest in him? The only one that gives me pause is the Chernak deal, and I like him as a player. I think he fits well on this team, and I do want to see him with Sergachev a bit, because we've always seen Chernak play with McDana as that shut down pair, but we know defensemen of his style of play. This physical defensive defenseman

does not usually age well. So while the tradeoff is it's not as much cap as someone like Sargichev and rightfully so, I look at that and go, I don't see how his body's going to hold up at the into that. And maybe they can get, you know, themselves out of that contract. Like, they just did with McDonough. They know how to work, you know, how to exploit the system and make things work for them. But that's just the only one that I'll get him was like, you really didn't have to go that expensive, that long for a player like him. Especially the Sergachev one. I'm a big fan of Mikhail Sergachev, and I think him getting an elevated role, he's going to really blow up. Like, and I expect his numbers to go up, as Shane mentioned, he wasn't getting the ice time that a player of that caliber with that kind of

skill usually would get on most teams. He's probably top pairing guy. He's going to get more important minutes. We're going to see if his defending, it's going to be harder assignments for him defending, but I really do think he's going to be a monster for them. I think just big picture, they're going all in and they're kind of like this, this is going to end poorly. Like in the end of this, like all these contracts are eventually going to catch up to them. But they have two Stanley Cups and they might have a couple more by the time it does. So who really cares? Does anyone, is anyone Chicago upset with Duncan Keith's contract? Not really, because they got three Stanley Cups out of it. So I think a little bit of it seems a little half hazard. Like let's just give a contract to everyone.

Like everyone whose contracts up, we're giving it to you. You're getting the money you deserve. None of them are really taking discounts. They're all just giving. But at the same time, they've got a super stack team a chance to win at least one more cup. Maybe another one if they can keep this window open. I do think eventually these contracts will catch up to them, but it's a case of who cares. We're just trying to win as many as we can right here with these guys. And guys, on free agent signing day, we're going to end this segment with a trade. The Carolina Hurricanes needed a replacement for Tony Angelo. They pull off a big deal with San Jose. Players and picks going each way, but obviously the big one, Brent Burns, is now a Carolina

hurricane. Like I said, one of the big moves of the day. day happens to be a trade and not a signing. Your thoughts when you saw this, Jesse. I am a huge fan of this trade. I love it. I think Brent Burns, his defensive side of his game leaves a little bit to be desired or maybe a lot of it to be desired. He doesn't defend. But I think in, okay, when San Jose was good and they were controlling possession of the puck, he was just an absolute monster. He's unstoppable. And lately, San Jose, hasn't had the puck a lot. So when Ben Burns doesn't have the puck,

all of his weaknesses are magnified and his strengths are minimized. I think he's going to a Carolina team that may control possession better than anyone in hockey. They have great defensive structure. I think he's going to fit in perfectly. They love taking shots from the point. This guy is literally born to do this.

I think this is such a perfect fit. I do think, okay, Burns is getting old. That contract may get a little bad towards the end, but I think if there was a situation, in the NHL for Brent Burns to return to like Norris Calum, like caliber offensively, at least, putting the numbers up. He's still not going to defend worth of crap. But I think Brent Burns could have a giant offensive year playing in a Carolina team that to me fits everything he does. Shana? I agree with that fully. Like totally, totally fully. No, I think like the biggest thing too

is, like you said, it's a totally different style of play that he's going to be with in Carolina. like they're this aggressive forechecking team they don't let their opponents have the puck and they don't need him to be this elite defenseman that's the most important thing in san Jose who was going to you know play those minutes it was him and mario ferrara so obviously he got them um now you have bret pesci and brady shay who can take on shutdown minutes if they need them to and you have i don't know jacobsl even one of the best shutdown defensemen in the league right there it's it's like they were they had dougie hamilton they opted not to go and sign him to that massive trade tony jangelo was just a stopgap somehow they turned that into picks because the fly

I have no idea what they were thinking, went for it. And it just worked in the hurricane's favor. I think that offensively, you know, Brent Burns might even be an upgrade. He's not as much as a distributor as DeAngelo is, but he's a really good shooter, which they need. So if they can have forwards crashing the net, ready for tips and deflections, which they have the, you know, offensive group to do that, I think this is going to work out really well for them. And I think that he can handle PowerPlay 1, which he, like, they could use the help on the powerplay. It didn't help him in the postseason.

and I think the mistake would have been investing too much in DeAngelo. I would not have wanted to give them too much money, too much term. I wouldn't trust that. So getting burns at a discount is fine. You know, the cost of acquisition was fine. For San Jose, a little bit underwhelmed. But I also think that they're in a really tough, you know, position. You come into a new team and you're trying to fix this financial situation

when they've decided to hand every single player who's at least 30 years old and eight-year contract with $8 million in cap, like for Vlasik, for Burns, for Carlson, for Logan Couture, all those deals you could look at, except for Carlson, because I think that's, he was on a different tier than the rest. You look at it and you go, I don't know what you were thinking and how you thought this would age. So if they can get out of it, great, and give themselves a little bit of flexibility. I don't know how much we should really expect them to get in return. Everyone knows they have no choice but to do these kinds of moves. Even at 37, he can handle the minutes, third most minutes in the NHL last year.

Stick right after the break. We'll wrap up the show by looking at who's still out there, the two we already talked about. So don't go anywhere. Okay, guys, it is 4.51 p.m. as of this recording, there are still a lot of names on the board. We talked about the top two, so obviously we're not talking about them, but finish this sentence. I am most intrigued to see where blank goes. Jesse will start with you. I'm going to go with John Klingberg. I think he, because like we've been talking a lot about, especially with the Brent Burns thing, like defensemen and how they fit in. with the style. And I think, I think John Klingberg has been putting up good numbers in Dallas in a system

that doesn't really fit him. I mean, Dallas loves to chip and dump and chase and kind of not carry the puck into the zone. And to me, Klingberg is one of the best defensemen in the league at carrying the puck in the zone. I think if, if he lands in the right spot, I think a team is going to get a better version of him than than the stars have gotten just because I think, I think a more offensive, a more skilled team that's not looking to dump and chase as much. really get some more out of him. So for me, I think Klingberg is a guy who maybe isn't on the top of lists, at least wasn't at the beginning of the day, that can really change an outlook for a team. I will go with Pilot because it's not just because of Palat, because I think if Pilat signs

somewhere, it means Skidro does, and we're going to see like the rest of the winger market kind of develop around that. That's why players like Neederiter are still waiting. Obviously, Berkovsky didn't wait, Nachushkin extended. And I think the fact that Nachushkin stayed in Colorado, too, took away an option. A lot of teams looked at, and they were probably thinking, Natchewski and Palat and interchanging them a little bit. Same with someone like Lekhinen, maybe there was a chance to offer sheet him. You know, here's a two-way forward. Someone who can click with top-line players, things like that, come up in big moments.

I like his game. I'm very curious, like, how he fares, you know, outside of Tampa Bay. But I'm very curious because I do wonder if a team's going to overpay him because they can't get Johnny Godro. Like, say the devils don't get Godrow. Do they look at Andre Plot and go, he's the type of skill that we need then in our top six and what kind of contract does he get then? He is a two-time Stanley Cup champion, and I hate to use that.

No, but that means money. Yeah, 100%. But I hate to use that old cliche, but you need an Andre Palat to win a Stanley Cup. You need, you're going to have your Kutrovs and your Stamcoasters, but he's the type of guy that is that perfect piece for a team that's, you know, a piece away from winning Stanley Cup. Pollat was my answer. I'm kind of surprised we haven't seen him ink something yet,

but again, as we talked about off the top of the show, So these guys don't have a gun to their head. They could take as long as they want. Before we go really quick, want to mention, I don't know if you consider this a feel-good story or not, but it was one of those things where I went to the washroom. I came back. I looked on my trade tracker, and I saw Eric and Mark Stahl signing with the Florida Panthers. Eric signing a PTO.

And Mark signing a one-year deal, $750,000 to play possibly, I'll say possibly play together. Did it make you smile? Shana. I'm here for it, here for the Stahl brothers. Second time that they play together too. You know, they played, they had their moment in New York together that did not go very well because of things with Eric Stahl and coaching decisions with him. But, you know, their careers get extended.

They're not far from Jordan. I'm sure we'll see them all go up against each other some more. And I think that's kind of fun. And, you know, if Eric Stahl can prove that he belongs on an initial roster, go off. And I'm kind of curious how Mark Stahl handles the speed of the Florida Panthers. Yeah, going down to Miami to hang out with your brothers and play some hockey, right? It's a, it's, it's pretty good setup. I think it's, I don't, like, like you said, Rob, maybe play for the Panthers. We'll see. Not sure if how much ice time Eric's going to be getting, but if he does, it's a cool

story. It'll be fun to watch. That's a super talented team. It's a good situation for, for those guys to try to, I guess, not live out a dream because they kind of did it in New York, but a chance to do it again. All right, guys. Thanks so much for a very upbeat show because, man, what a crazy day it was. I know most of what you guys are working on will deal with the free agency, but what specifically can we look forward to over the next week from you guys? Jesse? Yeah, like I mentioned earlier, I've got a piece ranking all of the goalie movement, kind of the goalie carousel ranking how I think these teams did. And then also I've got some cool features coming up on some Golden Knights prospects development camp all week. I've been talking to these kids. After covering it,

team that was severely falling below expectations, the Golden Knights, it was a depressing couple of months here in Vegas. There weren't very many cheery conversations to get to development camp and talk to these kids that are just pumped to be here. It has kind of reinvigorated me a little bit. I've got some really fun personality stories coming out of development camp in Vegas, so I'm excited for those. Shana, what do you got on top? So the signing grade's still working on with Sean and Dom, and I'm doing winners and losers of day one of free agency later on. And then when all the coaching situations get settled. I'm excited to do something on the coaching carousel. I very much look forward to that one because the coaching carousel has been almost as entertaining

as the bowlies. Thanks so much, guys, and thank you for listening. And remember, give us a follow on your favorite podcast platform. If you leave us a rating and review, you really appreciate it. It helps us out a lot. Subscribe to the Athletic Audio Plus on Apple podcast to get all your bonus content from the entire network. You start with a 30-day free trial. Then it's just 99 cents a month after that. And right now, you get an annual subscription to the Athletic for just a dollar a month or six months when you visit theathletic.com slash hockey show. The Athletic Hockey Show returns Thursday with Ian Mendez and down goes round for Jesse and Shana. I'm Rob. We'll talk to you next week.