The Athletic Hockey Show - Jonathan Huberdeau in position to win his first Art Ross Trophy, Goaltending tandems in the playoffs, and Seattle Kraken first year review

Episode Date: April 20, 2022

This week on the roundtable, Rob Pizzo from CBC Sports and Sara Civian and Jesse Granger from the Athletic NHL discuss the red hot Florida Panthers led by current NHL scoring leader Jonathan Huberdeau, goaltending injuries to Freddy Andersen and Tristan Jarry in Carolina and Pittsburgh and how goaltending duo's might be a factor for playoff teams this season and we ask, are pending free agents Johnny Gaudreau and Matthew Tkachuk tied together with the Calgary Flames?Ryan Clark who covers the Seattle Kraken for the Athletic stops by in segment 2 to take a look at the first year of the Kraken, what went right, and what went wrong for Ron Francis's club, the infamous expansion draft, how first pick Matty Beniers has fit in with the big club and Grammy-winning rapper Macklemore and retired Seattle Seahawks running back Marshawn Lynch becoming minority owners of the Seattle Kraken.Plus, we go rapid fire on Ryan Hartman having his fine paid by Minnesota Wild fans, and Evander Kane's former wife, The NHL=PA's report on how they handled Kyle Beach's complaint, the Vegas Golden Knights primed to miss the playoffs for the first time and how NHL scoring was at an all-time high this past week. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What's going on, everybody? Welcome to another award-winning. I say that all the time, but we haven't won any awards, but I'm going to say until we win an award so I can make myself completely accurate. A edition of the Athletic Hockey Show, the Wednesday Roundtable Edition, I am Rob Paisal from CBC Sports, joined as always by Jesse Granger in Vegas. How are you, Jesse? I'm doing great. How are you, Rob? I'm doing good. It's that time of the year where everything gets really, really exciting coming down the stretch. And Sarah Sivian in Carolina. How are you, Sarah? I'm great, Rob. I always refer to myself as an award losing journalist because I've been up for a few and I became a finalist, but I didn't win. So it got to be better next time. I love when people are up for awards and then they don't win and you have to pretend. And I'm not even talking big awards like the Oscars like that. Oh, no, no, I'm okay with it. It was an honor just being nominated.

Bullshit. You wanted to win, didn't you? Anything for the clout. Yeah, I mean, during the during the Olympics, the Canadian Screen Actors Award nominees came out and someone else I work with named Rob got nominated as best sports host. And I had people

coming up to me who I guess just saw it on Twitter, like, congratulations. I'm like, I didn't get nominated. But Rob Snook's a great guy. Congratulations, Rob you got nominated. I didn't. Rob Pizzo didn't. But yeah, coming down the home stretch, guys, everybody's at like, at the least, I'm looking at the

standings, at least 76 games. So we are really down the home stretch. A lot of stuff to talk about. Should mention later on, Ryan Clark from the Athletics going to join us, to talk about the Cracken, obviously not a team that's going to be in the playoffs, but hindsight's 2020 when it comes to sports fans.

And we love doing things like redrafting who they should have drafted in the expansion draft. And also, Maddie Baneers, I mean, making himself look like he should have been here a long time ago with the Cracken. But guys, let's get to some of these topics.

for the first time since March 11th, Connor McDavid is not leading the NHL in scoring. Jonathan Huberto, who we've talked about it on the show for various reasons. Three assists last night. He's got six games left. He now is 111 points. Connor McDavid with 110 points. No Panther has ever won the scoring title.

When you've got a team like the Panthers sitting at 116 points, do you think this is of any importance to them that he wins the scoring title? You know, it's one of those things where are you putting an individual ahead of this because you've got a bit of that cushion? And two, does he win the scoring title or does Connor McDavid kind of say, oh, okay, someone else took over? Let me flip it into Superman mode. Jesse?

I think, yeah, I think that Florida's definitely in the better position of the two, like Edmonton's still kind of fighting. I mean, Edmonton's pretty clearly in, but they're, They're not as clearly in as Florida. So I'd say if there's one that's going to maybe favor the individual awards, it would be Florida. But I mean, to me, it's like, Huberto is just, he's really, really good, but he's just part of this wagon that's just destroying teams right now. I mean, Florida is so much fun to watch. They score, like, Florida can be down three nothing and I'm, and I don't even remotely think the game is over because this team seems to come back from deficits every night.

It's a lot of fun to watch. What do you think, Sarah? Yeah. Well, I think he's going to do it. And I think hell yeah, it matters because it puts a team like Florida on the map. I didn't know they've never had a leading score. And I think we talk a lot about how they're a small market and people don't pay attention as much to small markets. But it's also because they haven't had a lot of great teams or great players. So I feel like something like this happening is actually huge for a team like that. First off on the comebacks, they have five. I'm not kidding. Five comebacks where they were down by four. more goals. That is bananas. Like you're not supposed to come back from. That's supposed to happen once and make the headlines. Not five times in a year. Vegas just came back from three nothing for the first time in franchise history the other day. One time and that was three and they've done it from four. Five times. Yeah. In a single season. They're just scoring at absolute will. And to answer

your question there, Sarah, the closest to Panther has ever came to winning the scoring title back in 1994, Pabell Burry. Sorry, back in 99, 2000, with 94 points. He finished second to Yarmir Yager. And it's one of those things. Like this team is like you said, Jesse. Just a machine. And if he does win the scoring title, I'm going to tell producer Jeff, we have to get

Dom on to see if he would give him any kind of role. No, Austin Matthews, you win the heart. No. Is that your Dom impression? Yes. So, okay, so right, how much, do you guys get votes? Sorry, I apologize. I think I've asked you this before.

I think so. Yeah, I have been. Does the leading score in the National Hockey League automatically just get serious consideration? What kind of question is that automatically gets consideration? Like, are they automatically the thing or does it weigh heavily? Are they auto? I'm saying if you've got, say, to nominate three, you know, three finalists is the leading score just one of those spots?

Jesse, go first. Not for me. I mean, it's like when you say do they get consideration, of course. Like if you're not, if you're not considering. Yes, I don't mean consideration where you're not even bringing them up. But I'm saying you guys have to put in your list and put them in order. Is it just a name that's put in? No, not for me.

I mean, I'll tell you right now, like for me, he's like Huberto is one of the guys I'm thinking about for my three. But I don't even know if he'd be in my three right now if I were writing my heart. Now, like Igor Shasturkin, for me, has to be in the top three. And he's obviously nowhere near the top of scoring because he's a goalie. So it's like, that takes one spot. And now you've only got two spots. And I tend to favor goals over points if, like, if I'm trying to choose between the two. But if like, that doesn't preclude a guy who has the most points. But yeah, for me, it's definitely not an automatic. Like he's got to be in the top three if he leaves the league in points. What about you, Sarah? absolutely because as we said again the amount and the rate that the panthers are scoring as a whole is insane and the award is supposed to be who's the most important player on the team so relative to the team not relative to the league i think that's where a lot of people get it wrong like chesterkin is probably my number one have to see to the end of the season what happens but i do when you think about who is the most important to the individual team if the end of this the team as a whole is scoring a bunch it's not

necessarily the person with the most goals. Could we, could we all agree, though, that while that is the definition of the award and it's, you know, chiseled right there on to the award, it just doesn't happen every year? I feel like there's so many different, there's so many different definitions of MVP and everyone kind of has their own, like, you on it. Like, like, I don't know. Like, I feel like what Sarah's saying is the, is the view of if you took this player off this team, how bad are they type of thing.

That's exactly how I do. Yeah, if that's the way you look at it, Igor Shosturkin is, to me, is like, why are we even having this conversation? Take him off the team. They're the fifth worst team in hockey. You take Hubertoe off the Panthers and they only have three four-goal comebacks this season. Yeah, exactly.

That's my brain. Right. But that's the problem and it's been the problem for as long as this award has been given out. That's what the definition is, most valuable to his team. But if you really went with it like that, you could argue that. Wayne Gretzky didn't deserve some of his heart trophies because if you took him off that arguably greatest team in NHL history, they probably still win the Stanley Cup. I mean, it's, it's, so I would much rather just have an MVP.

I think every league and every sport should have, you know, an award that says you were the best player in this sport this year. But unfortunately, we're always going to have this sort of thing. You're right. You take Huberto away. There's still a phenomenal hockey team. There should be two. Well, you guys are the ones. two different awards.

Why not? Why not just, like, have more awards. So we stop having these debates, like the Norris, too. Yeah, I'm with it. I'm with it. But man, we got ahead of ourselves there only because we got to bring Dom up in his Jonathan Huberdo argument. But I'm going to make Jesse really happier, guys.

Next two topics, deal with goalies. Yes. There's nothing that makes Jesse happier than talking about goalies. First, we're going to talk about two goalies who are injured. And Sarah, we got to start with you on this one. Frederick Anderson, going to be reevaluated, anti-eranta right now. taken over the reins at least for right now. But like we said, the playoffs right around the corner.

Any updates there? No updates yet, but me and Pierre LeBron have been working on it. And by me and Pierre, I mean mostly Pierre. And he said that they have the MRI results and they're negative. So that's a really good sign, but they are going to still reevaluate him next week. But it's way more hopeful than we all kind of anticipated when we saw him go down on his left leg and ankle or knee situation. I'm not a doctor, but lower body injury, Sarah, lower body injury. A lower body injury of that variety.

I love, I read your piece and I love the quote from Rod Brindamore when you said, what are your options if he doesn't come back, quote, I mean, there's not really many choices. We've got two guys. If one goes down, the other one goes and that's pretty much how it goes. That actually said a lot to me more than on the surface because they had called up this guy who's been the HL goalie of the month, Peter Kochekhov, he doesn't speak English,

but he is absolutely electric. Like he gets in fights on this HL team. He's 13 1 in 1 and 1, and he's a really good, say, percentage too. And it's just like, I'd like to see him play

just to see what would happen, but he has no NHL experience. And like the whole reason the Keynes went for Friday was because of the veteran NHL experience. Another team dealing with an injured goaltender right now, Tristan Jari, in Pittsburgh,

uh, week to week with a lower body injury there are reports. He's got a busted foot. Jesse Casey DeSmith going into the playoffs for this Pittsburgh team. That's got a lot of Pittsburgh bands like grabbing their, their collar. Oh, gee, this is going to hurt. Yeah, that's, that's rough. I think, I think it matters more for Pittsburgh.

I've, I've said this in the past. I think I ruffled some feathers in Carolina last year when I was, I was, I was kind of, I was kind of, I was kind of, I, I said a lot of Nadelcovich's success. is just playing behind that Carolina team. I personally, when I watch Carolina play, I feel like I could play goalie behind Carolina Hurricanes. They make it so easy on their goalies. So while I do think Freddie Anderson is a step up from Nadelcovich,

like I thought Nadelcovich was a mirage. I'll just be honest, behind Carolina. I think Freddie Anderson's a very good goalie. So I think he's a step up from that. But at the same time, I think someone like Antironta can step in if he needed to and absolutely play behind that team because like I said, that team makes it easy on their goalies. Like Pittsburgh, they're a really good team.

But to me, if you're telling me, like, which one of those teams needs their starting goalie back more for the first round of the playoffs to have a chance to get through. For me, it's Pittsburgh big time. And we could see Pittsburgh, Carolina in the first round as well. Right. So whoever's goaltender comes back sooner, you've got that upper, that upper hand, right? I actually covered the Penguins for a season, mostly with the AHL team. And DeSmith was on that team.

He was never really supposed to make it to the NHL. It was kind of one of those fluke situations. And then he just kind of, the way it worked out with Mark Andre Fleury and everything, it just fell into place. So we'll see. That'd be interesting if he's like playing starting goalie in the playoffs. But I don't have that much faith in him. It's amazing when you look at the two,

how different their stats are between Jari and Smith. I mean, Jari's 12 percentage points higher on save percentage. And the goal saved above average, Shajari is 20 and to Smith is negative 0.1. It's like massive difference for two goalies playing behind the same defense. Yeah. And this Pittsburgh team too kind of reminds me a little bit of Boston where it's it's kind of like, okay, last kind of kick at the cans here. You know what I mean? Your core is getting older. There's only so many more chances you have at the cup.

And if you're a Pittsburgh fan or if you're Crosby or Malcolon, you're thinking, oh my God, this is really happening like a week and a half before the playoffs. sticking with goalies and just kind of sticking with this topic really you know there was a time way way back when when every team had a starting goaltender and a backup goaltender and the starting goaltender would play just a boatload of games and the backup goaltender would get in there every now and again but the definitions were very clearly defined those days are gone plenty of teams in the NHL now share that crease and it works out well because you're giving one guy rest while the other guy plays and a lot of teams have made it work for them but it also brings up issues coming up playoff time. You have the dreaded goaltending controversy and people like us discussing who should be in. We're looking at some of the teams that don't necessarily have a controversy or a huge question mark, but could come up even after a bad game one or two in the playoffs. You've got Florida, you got Toronto, you get St. Louis. You got Minnesota now even. Cam Talbot another shout out last night. Edmonton, we know their goaltending issues, Boston, Dallas. Is there a team that you think,

or maybe I'll word this differently? What team do you think after the first two games of the playoffs, we could be talking about a possible switch in net. The first one that comes to mind is Edmonton, just because Mike Smith is so volatile. I guess that's the word to describe Mike Smith like in his whole career. Like, Mike Smith can be really good. Like when Mike Smith is on, if you're the opposition, yeah, if you're playing the Oilers in the first round, if he has a good first game, it's like, you guys were kind of screwed because like that's the way to beat the Oilers is Mike Smith having a bad game.

But at the same time, I could see him just self- imploding and them having to go to Koskenen, which I don't know how much better that of an option that is. If I'm the oilers, like, that's a concern in net. But yeah, that was the team that came to mind when you said, like, which one of these teams has the best chance of changing through two games? Yeah, totally. That's the most obvious one for a reason. Yeah, you know, I look at Florida too. And I know it's interesting to say like, oh, Bobrovsky, right, two-time Vezna trophy winner. That's why you go out and get him, but you look at what he's done in the playoffs, 13 and 23 in the playoffs.

And then every time Spencer Knight makes an appearance, damn, he looks good. So I think right now that's Bobrovsky's job to lose, but he could lose it. I could see, you know, a real struggle where maybe has a rough game one, gets pulled in game two, and Spencer Knight looks good. Could we see, you know, Spencer Knight in game three? I know it's crazy with Florida. Yeah. No, that's a good.

What an option. They're very lucky right now. It's like they have the option to do that. It's the opposite of Edmonton. They have two good goalies. They're trying to choose between. Edmonton's like, man, which one of these guys are going to screw it up the least?

And again, when I said Cam Talbot, Jesse, you shook your head. You nodded up and down. Well, he's, they went out and got Flurry for the playoffs. And but they still have that Cam Talbot option. He's, and competition breeds success. I mean,

sometimes you need a fire under you. Like it looks, it certainly looks like the. acquisition of Flurry has really got Cam Talbot going. I mean, you look at his numbers. Ever since that trade happened, Cam Talbot has been lights out. It's so funny. You see different goaltenders react to that in different ways. Some goalies like knowing I'm the man. If, you know, someone's there just for maybe the back to backs and everything else. And other goalies, like he said, like Talbot go, oh, you know what? All right. We've got someone else who can who can possibly

take over and they went out and got him for this reason. I'm going to show you what I can do. So a lot of teams there with interesting decisions that they might have to make. And trust me, we'll talk about it on this podcast. Before we go to break, Johnny Gujarow, 100 points. Matthew Kachuk, knocking on 100 points. He's at 99. He just passed his father, his career high. His dad had a 98 point career high.

So Kachuk passed him. So Christmas dinners should be fun in the Kachuk house. Brad Trillivian came out, the general manager of the Calgary Flames and said, they are going to, quote, move heaven and earth to sign Johnny Goodro to a new contract. Of course, is a UFA. That is so dramatic. I miss that. That's iconic.

And you've got Matthew Kachukh, who's in RFA. Remember their line mates? Remember they're having career years. I'm just wondering, and this maybe is a very NBA question because we hear this all the time in the NBA, but how much what happens to Johnny Goodro is going to affect Matthew Kichuk or vice versa. Do you guys think these sort of discussions, like I said, it seems very NBA where it's like, hey, we're going to go there together. Hey, we're going to do this.

Do you think they're going to affect their decisions on what the other guy does? I think so because it's just, it's kind of like when you're building the blocks of a team and I think it's somewhat dependent on what happens this off season, right? Like, do you have a team to build with or are they going to try to go somewhere else and get a better opportunity? I feel like you're both going to get signed to Calgary. This team is all the up and up, right? Yeah, I agree with all that.

I think hockey players don't like to move their stuff. That's kind of a thing, right? So, so like I always just, like, if I'm guessing, I'm assuming that every player is going to sign with the team they currently are on, and I'll be right 95% of the time. But I agree with you, Rob. It does kind of feel like when you said this is an NBA thing, that was fascinating to me and I agree with it because I think that if good, like right now,

the flames are, like you said, on the up and up, this team looks great. They have got a lot of young pieces. but at the same time, if they were to not sign Goodrow, like in a world where they don't sign Goodrow and he leaves as a free agent, I think that all of a sudden the picture of them keeping Kachuk is is a lot less. And suddenly, suddenly this doesn't look like a slam dunk and you lose both of those guys. And now they're not on the up and up. The future of this team is totally different. So I agree that they are connected.

I think if they can get Godro signed to a long-term contract, things are. are a lot easier. Things are a lot more stable in Calgary. You have to see, but yeah. And I mean, like I said, anytime your linemate, if you have a career year, like let's say Kachuk finishes with over 100 points, which all indications are unless he doesn't do anything in the next five games he does, and suddenly your linemate's gone, maybe you're considering moving elsewhere. And then allow me to express a ton of shock

that Johnny Goodro has the best year of his career in a free agent year. It's just amazing how that always happens, isn't it, guys? It always happens or it doesn't happen. There's never like a modest season. No, it's like they know. They want to get paid. They want that long-term deal. And Johnny Guadro, whether it's with the flames or not,

probably we'll be getting it. And probably we'll be getting consideration for the Hart Trophy. I don't know if he's on both of your ballots as we started the show, talking about heart ballots as well. After the break, we'll talk about the Seattle Cracking with Ryan Clark, who covers the team for the athletic. Maybe we'll do a little bit of redrafting as we saw in the piece on the athletic. talk about Maddie Bineer. So don't go anywhere.

Well, as I said off the top of the show, guys, sports fans, we all have a lot of things in common. One of them is that hindsight is 2020. We love just saying, well, I knew it. They should have done this. He should have done that. And that is no different when dealing with the Seattle Cracken and to help us break that down. We gave Ryan Clark a call who covers the team for the athletic. How are you, Ryan? Good, good. How is everyone? We're doing all right. You know, gearing up for, is this playoff run. But the, Seattle Cracken, not in the play. Before we even get in this, are you, are you tired of hearing the comparisons between the Seattle Cracken and what the Vegas Golden Knights did as far as an expansion

team? Because every time you, no, not necessarily. No, just because I mean, I guess if you're a fan potentially maybe, but I guess a journalist covering the team, every situation is different. And plus when you're looking at what history tells you, like, what Vegas did, the reason it stood out because no one had ever seen it before. But when you spend the season before looking at what other expansion teams have done, like they've typically not been good. They're lottery teams for quite a long time. So to see what the Cracken are doing, like it's not really a shot.

But at the same time, you know, they're going to get compared to Vegas and everything, whether it's production on ice, whether it's in-game entertainment, sweaters, like whose fans are the loudest, like there's always going to be something. Yeah, and that's why we got you on to talk about that. and to talk about the piece on the athletic in which you got different writers to come on and kind of do a redraft of the expansion draft and who the Cracken took and who the Cracken didn't take. As I said, Hindsight's 2020.

Were there any surprises in that piece for you? Like, you know, that's a good way to look at it. Was anything that really jumped out as far as now a year in saying maybe they should have done this? Not necessarily just because, again, it all depends upon your viewpoint. Because if you were to go and do a redraft, you could say, if they've got certain players, one name that's always come up is Vladimir Teresenko.

At minimum and at worst, you have someone who is a legitimate top six forward, who's having one of the best years of his career, someone that, for marketing purposes, you can say, here's someone we have, because who has been the Morf Andre Fleury of this team? Like, who's been that fan favorite people rallied around? And you saw the Brandon Tannett for a bit, and it still is, even though he's out for the season. there's still, you know, loud reaction for Philip Grubauer, but he's had a rocky year to put it mildly, yet the weird part is he could still possibly win 20 games, even though his state percentage is below 900, which, again, it's just been a strange year, but at the same time, like, and you've seen Jared McCannan, now you're seeing Maddie Baneers in that role, but at maximum, like, let's see you still have the year you have, and you have someone like Vladimir Tarasenko, that is going to get you a first round pick. And when you look at what the Crackin are trying to do towards building for the future, having that sort of draft capital, whether, it is to draft that player or get someone else in a trade would be immense. So when you feel like at things like that, then yeah, you look at and go, okay, yeah,

but at the same time, they still got 34 draft picks over the next three years. They're possibly going to get the number one pick this year, at least the top three, top four pick. And you look at what Maddie Baneers has done in three games so far. You're looking at what they're trying to do and say, okay, maybe you can see the vision come to fruition, but at the same time, it has just been three games. It has just been three games, but, you know, it's interesting. You brought up Gru Bauer and you brought up the goaltending situation. For me, who they drafted versus who they possibly should have drafted, the one that jumped

out to me was the Kings and Jonathan Quick. If you could redraft goaltending situation, you know, what are you looking at? What team are you possibly saying should have gone goaltender here? You could argue what they did in the original expansion draft with digging Vitech Vannichek and then Chris Treger, just because you look at the pure economics of it. like Vanatech is an RFA on a super cheap contract. Chris Trigger, he ends up costing three and a half. You put them together.

It's still a significant savings, whereas if with Philip Grubauer the year he's having now, and he's on the books for at least, what, five more years. And so if you're Ron Francis in that team, you're hoping maybe the next five years can be better than what you've seen this year. Otherwise, it's a little bit of an albatross that's kind of hanging around your proverbial neck. But, like, again, that's just it. It's like everybody kind of looked at Vech Danexek and went, okay, is this going to be the one the cracking kind of stick with? But then you see what they're doing now.

And again, it's like you can see what they were trying to do, but you see what's actually happened. And we've all seen things where people said, this looks like something that could work. And then you're into it and you're like, maybe not right now. So we'll have to wait and see. It's fascinating to watch the crack. For me, like you said, they're getting compared. And like, like Maddie Bernier's has been so awesome right off. the bat. Do you think this team is where they thought they would be at this point?

Like you mentioned, like maybe the goal-tending hasn't worked out like they thought they would. But other than that, that's the obvious one. But I would say other than that, do you think that this has kind of gone the way that they expected it to go based on who they took in that draft? They obviously took a much different approach from Vegas. Potentially not in the point of being a lottery team. Because when you look at the different models, like you look at Dom's, for example, you look at others. thought this was going to be a team that was at least going to be 500, and in some cases, maybe one, that if they're not fighting for the eighth seed, they're sitting somewhere around

nine or ten in the Western Conference. So to see what they've become, like, that's just kind of the strange thing is in some ways, yes. Like, you look at the way they were able to move pieces at the deadline. This was a roster that when you look at it, they were built for quick turnover. You had a lot of RFA, UFs, you had a lot of cap space left over to where you could go facilitate deals. And the sense of the record, that's definitely been a surprise just because, again, you think about what the models told you. You look at some of the players they had. Yes, you could see where there are certain areas where there are question marks. Like, do they have enough scoring? Like what does the pop six situation look like? Bottom six,

they were going to be fine. But then when you take all that into account along with what was supposed to be the identity of this team, this aggressively forechecking team, and then there are times you saw it consistently, and then there are times you didn't see it, and then there times you may have seen that for checking, but the goaltending wasn't there. It's almost kind of like you spin the wheel and it's like, which one will it land on today for the Cracken? And so that's a long way of saying, like, they probably didn't foresee this, but now that they're in it, it seems like they're just having to adjust with what they've got right now, which is building for the future and hoping that it all works out. I would argue that that record is

100% because of the goaltending. I mean, you look at like shot share, Seattle's 14th in the league, their average. Expected goals share, they're like 20th. Like, that's a team that's kind of knocking on the door of the playoffs. And then goals share, they're like last because the goalies can't stop a thing. Well, you know, it's interesting because, like, you look at like the different state percentages and believe it was Philip Grubauer's this morning. You look at what he did in March.

He had four straight games where state percentage was above 90% a year ago. You just said, yeah, and who cares? Because he's a best in the trophy finalist. He's not had a stress like that all year. till then. He's had games. He's had four games in a month where he's done that, but not four games in a row with Chris Krieger coming into this month between late March and early April. He also had four games in a row where the safer center was above 900. And again, it sounds like such a weird, strange barometer to talk about because that's what you expect of goalies in the

NHL, but that's just how inconsistent the goaltending has been. And even when you look at certain games, like when they lose to the flames a couple weeks ago in Seattle, it goes like to something made hacksaw said, which is he was like, it can't always fall on the last line of defense to stop every single little thing. Like, there has to be help from the five-man unit in front of them. But at the same time, we've seen nights where the five-man unit has done what they needed to do, but it'll be a goal here or a goal there. And the next thing you know, you look up at the scoreboard, and it might be a three-one or a four-two deficit with five minutes left going into the third period. What's up with them not playing my boy, Hayden Flurry? Is there something

I'm missing here? Hayden Flurry, Will Borgon, like it's just been an interesting sort of conversation as to like, who is going to play for what reasons? And Dave Haxfell talked a lot about matchups, but like once you traded Mark Giordano, once you made other moves, Dave and said, look, we're going to look at this roster

to see who fits where, but the challenge of Hayden Flurry all year has simply been, where does he fit in with the scheme, with the numbers? That's just simply what it's been because you look at what Adam Larson provides. I mean, Carson Sussie has 10 goals this year. Carson Sussi has never scored 10 goals at any level of hockey in his career. Like, not midget, not junior.

Like, in college, he had 12 career goals. And in this first year at the Cracken, he already has 10. Like, Vince Dunn is your quarterback on the power play. And so you look at then Jamie, Lexi Ector is what he's done. So that's just what it's been. It's been a numbers game. And now, like, you've seen Hayden Flurry, you've seen his brother play. You've seen Will Borgon.

It seems like they're just trying to get a feel for who fits. in where going forward. Okay. I'm satisfied with that answer. Thank you. Next question comes from Rob Pizzo. We've mentioned Maddiebineers a couple times, so let's talk about it. And I know you wrote about the kind of 72 hours leading up to him signing the deal

and making that decision. And walk us through a little bit of that because obviously he was debating whether to sign that deal, join the crack in or go back for another year at Michigan. And to a lot of people in the outside world, I know the NHL is very different now with, with, it's a cap world and it's been like that for a while. But it seems like such a ridiculous decision to a lot of people. And a lot of people said to me, really? That's, that's something that people are debating. But he not only made the decision with himself, but with his parents and everyone got involved.

Walk us through that 72 hours. I mean, it starts with the fact that his dad said, look, we would go on walks before this decision was made and was like, hey, what do you want to do? and it was just kind of this, hey, take your time and, you know, don't feel rushed. But once Michigan season ended, it was a lot in a short window. So he had already flown back to Michigan with the team, but Ron Francis stuck around to do dinner with Maddie's mom, dad, and his siblings where they asked a bunch of different questions. And for their family, it gave them the sense of, okay, if this is the decision he makes, he's going to be going into a dynamic where he knows different variables. But it's like his mom told Ron Francis, like, this isn't a slam dunk. And with Maddie Baneers, it was a little.

lot of things to consider because, like, one, he felt like they could have won a national championship at Michigan. You look at the recruiting class they're bringing in next year if he were to stay. It seems like the odds of that happening are still pretty high, but at the same time, when you look at what was also facing him, like he wanted to look at things like education because, like, his family talked to Ron Francis about, hey, could he do summer courses online, whether it be at Washington or the University of Mission? Because his family cares a lot about education. His parents are Cornell grad. Like, this is the thing that matters to them, but essentially the decision that was made was it is better to go pro. You can still get your degree, but going to the

NHL was they felt the best thing for him and the same thing with Maddie. And when you look at how that decision has worked out, like let's take that Saturday game where he made his home debut. Like, he had this deep that made people use four-letter words. Like some of them were family-friendly, like what in that? And others were things that we probably can't repeat on this program. But at the same time, it's like it's more than that. Like you're seeing this guy who has this two- consistency, something that you have seen from players. Especially in a market like this where everyone, like the

level of acumen is different. Like there are people who they've grown up watching the game and know what to look for, people in the middle and people who are just new to this. And so for some people, they look at the goals and what he does in the offensive zone and they're like, oh my God, but like when you look at what he does in the defensive zone, how he operates in the neutral zone, like he gives them a complete player who projects to be a top

six forward. And when you look at what he's been able to provide, it's made an instant difference in terms of how this team looks. Yeah, it's interesting because for so long, um, the comparison between, say major junior hockey in Canada with the CHL versus drafting players in the NCAA has been pretty different because in Canada, it's not a matter of,

oh, do what, do the Windsor Spitfires have a chance at the Memorial Cup? I think I want to go back. And I know we're not, we're eliminating the education angle here, but walk us through a bit of the difference between the NCAA and, and the pride players have with staying in college, not only to get their education,

but to have a chance at that national championship versus when you've got a player drafted in the first round, second overall in major junior hockey in Canada, where they say, no, my goal is to get to the NHL. This is what I want to do. Well, each player, of course, is different, but some of it probably could go back to and Jesse Sierra please intervene here

because they might have a different perspective on this, but it seems like some of it is just, it is the track and the path of advancement, because, like, if you're a major junior player, you're someone that you understand, hey, look, if by my draft year, I'm still playing major junior and I do well, the percentage is show there's a shot I could possibly go to the NHL and maybe do some things. So the development path is part of it. Whereas if with college, I mean, like, yeah, some of it is the literal collegial nature of it. I mean, like, with college programs, like, they talk about national championships and this and that.

Like, yes, it's about how you develop players, but it's more the goal of, like, how do you win an actual. championship. Whereas if with Major Junior, while people care about winning whatever league they're in, whether it's the dove, the Q, or the O, and yes, they care about the Memorial Cup, it really is all about, like, okay, where do you go play or where can you go to advance yourself to get to the next level? But also, like, when you look at guys at Major Junior in college, like, yes, they all develop different, but, like, when you look at the college model, it is so heavily predicated on being able to gradually develop both in terms of skill, physically, maturity, you name it.

And it's not that you don't have those same, you know, areas that you want to address when you play major junior, but college concentrates so much on those ideals that maybe that's part of the reason why it is so different. I think it's also, oh, you go. Oh, wow. We got two people want to get their opinions on this one. We got opinions.

Let's go. Let's go. I was going to say, I think that there is a camaraderie part of it in college. Like, these kids are living in the dorms together. And like, there's a part of like, these are my friends. Like, so I kind of have an insight on this. just because Brendan Bresson is, he's not in the NHL, but he's making his pro debut for the HAL. And he played at Michigan with Berners and Owen Power. And I talked to him about the

decision to go pro. And he said that they all discussed it together. I mean, there was like six of them at Michigan this year because that team was so stacked. And they all kind of talked about it together. Like, it was almost a like, if one of us is going, we're all going. Like, we don't, like three of us aren't going to go and the other two stay back and try to win another one. Like, we're all going to go pro together. I don't want to be the guy stuck at Michigan still while the other four go pro and I've got to restart with a new draft class type of thing. Like I definitely think maybe more so than in junior hockey. In college, these kids are they're living together.

They're on their own. They're not with a with a billet family. Like I think that has that that's a major difference between the two. Yeah, completely that. And also I know that there's American kids that play major junior and then there's Canadian kids who play college hockey. But it is kind of the culture of Americans versus Canadians and going to college, right? there's something to do with that. I know Berners is from Hingham, Massachusetts, right near my

where I grew up. So it's kind of the culture of going to play college hockey. Growing up in Boston is huge. Yeah, interesting. I mean, I want to say real quick, because going back to what Sarah said about growing up in Boston, like that's the wild thing. It's like, I know you could literally write a book called, if not for the pandemic, dot, dot, dot, dot. But if it wasn't for that, and again, we're talking about the scope of hockey, not in like actual legitimate real life thing. Maddie DeNier's was going to go play at Harvard. And so, like, that would have, so that's the thing. It's like, there would have been a reality where he wasn't even at Michigan.

He would have been at Harvard. And imagine what that would have looked like seeing a guy like that play in a bean pot. And that's what made this year's tournament so important to him is his dad talked about. He was like, look, Maddie never got the chance to play in a bean pot because he went to Michigan. So to play the frozen floor in the garden, that was his bean pot. And that's something he wanted. So if you're him and if you'd won the whole thing, you're probably just like, all right, that's it.

It was over. there's not much more to do. But in the hours and days after, it's like, yes, you're talking with your friends and different people about it, but there's still probably that party that's just like, well, we were close. Who's to say we won't get close again? But at the same time, like, when you look at the fact that this group you came in with all of them wrong moving on, it's easy for you to say, too, like, okay, is it time for me to do the same? Ryan, one last thing before we go. It's part of our Twitter question today about what celebrity you would love to see own a piece of your team. And obviously that stems from

Marchon Lynch and McLemore joining the the Cracken ownership group. Your thoughts on this. And are we going to see any of this affect the team, at least publicly? So with Marshall Lynch and McLemore, like, it's been sort of an interesting move in the sort of of the way that people have responded to it just because everyone was just kind of going about their business. And then all of a sudden, like if you're a fan, you see this. you're like, what the hell? And then you're just like, this is the most Seattle thing to ever Seattle. But then again, like the team kind of gave it away like on Sunday when they tweeted out a photo of a crack and puck.

And then the foreground are Skittles. And in the background is like a fur coat from thrift shop. And for people that's like, oh, Skittles, like what, like, if it's something with Marshawn and in the background, it's like, why a fur coat? And if you're a Macklemore fan and you get it. If you're not, you're probably wondering like, okay, is this something to do with fashion week and Skittles? like if they're convergent to the two. But that was the worst thing ever said on this podcast. What you're saying is it got attention.

Yeah, no, absolutely. Oh, God, in this city, yeah, absolutely. Like, I think Marshawn Lynch could literally say, this is my Amazon fresh grocery order, and people will run to go get the same thing. He's got to love here. But in the sense of, like, what it means publicly, I mean, like, let's start with what McLeod Moore said.

Anyone who's been the Climate Pledge Arena, which these two have, they know that there's a platform for a live band. And they've been trying to get more local artists in that space and with Macklemore, they want to tap into how do we make this a space where like more local artists can go perform? Because as he said, like, when I had 30 people at a show, you felt like it was an opportunity for you to do something different in front of people and hope that maybe you resonate, to get that case in front of 17,000, that would be immense for any

upcoming artists. Whereas if you would get Marshon Lynch and community service has been his big thing, he wants to get involved for hockey, it's for everyone. He wants to help grow this game. So that way you see people from different backgrounds, whether they be ethnically, socioeconomic, like, whatever the case might be really getting into hockey. Because, like, that's something the Cracken have talked about. They put a lot of action behind it. But with these two, it's a chance to really grow what they've already done in those different spaces and say, hey, look, we now have a face of this as well.

It'd be interesting to see. And I'm looking forward to seeing some of our Twitter responses, too, because I have a feeling Kanye's name's going to get brought up or something like that as well. Ryan, thanks so much for doing this. Enjoy the rest of the year. We'll talk to you soon. Hey, you got it. Thanks for having me.

Ryan Clark, who covers the Seattle Cracken for the Athletic. After the break, we'll get to some rapid fire topics. We'll listen to the answers from that Twitter question. Also find out what Jesse and Sarah are working on this week. So don't go anywhere. All right, guys, rapid fire time. Some things we didn't get to in the first segment of the show. I want to get your opinions on this.

Jesse, I think it's pretty obvious. We're going to start with you on this topic. Vegas just battling for their playoff. off lives. And, you know, I love seeing desperate teams do desperate things like loose to the New Jersey Devils, which was just an absolute shock for me. I know you wrote that they, quote, don't, didn't look like themselves. Your thoughts right now, because you might not be covering playoff hockey. Yeah, it definitely doesn't look like I'm going to be. This team is, is hurting right now. I mean, they're finally healthier than they've been. And I say that they have seven regular players

that would normally be in the lineup on IR still. But they got Mark Stone back. They got Max Patcherady back. They put Robin Lennar back in net, and all three looked like shells of themselves. They just did not, like I said, they didn't look themselves. They're not, they're kind of, the Golden Knights are leaning on their stars, and their stars aren't healthy enough to carry them at the moment. They look like a September team trying to find its footing,

playing against teams that are at the top of their game heading into the playoffs. They look like they're in a lot of trouble right now. doesn't help the Vancouver's charging as well. It's not like it's just them and that's it. Vancouver right on them now tied at 87 points apiece. Yeah. So it'll be an interesting run going down to the final. Topic number two guys, Donald Fares future. An independent report cleared him of any wrongdoing in the Kyle Beach situation. That independent report was released on a Friday of Easter weekend. I'm trying to imply certain things here. I'm not saying

that he was at fault, but I am saying that there was failure all around and it's interesting how we're saying he didn't do anything wrong, but there are a lot of people including Pierre LeBron. I know we mentioned earlier in the show that think this is the last we're going to see of Donald Fair. Sarah, do you think he's the head of the NHLPA

come next season? Yeah, no. It's time for a change. It's been time for a change too, and it's just like the lengths we've seen to go to kind of enable this has been it's enough now. And the report coming out after they lost power, I'm sure there actually was a power outage, but they could have put something together before it would make it.

Jesse? Yeah, I think even if you say, even if you want to agree that, okay, he didn't technically do anything wrong on any of these rules, I think that position is about trust. Like, do the players trust that that guy has their best interest in mind? And I think there's enough stuff to happen to where there are enough players out there that don't feel that trust. and that position. To me, that's the most important thing. The players have to believe you are here to work in our best interests.

And I don't know if enough players believe that. Topic number three, goals, goals, goals, and more goals. We just had the highest scoring weekend in NHL history. 153 goals were scored over the weekend, boosted the goals per game to 6.3 on the season. It's been 26 years since we've seen a season ending with a scoring rate that. high, you have to go back to the 95-96 season before we've seen anything that resembles that number.

Five players with 100 points right now. Five more right on the cusp. If you had to pick one reason why goal scoring just really seemed to spike this year, what would be your one reason? Sarah? Oh my God. I don't even know. That's exactly what I was going to ask. Why is this happening? You could see in the first month of the season it was going to happen, right? And the Bluejacket seemed to lose or win by seven goals every game. and you never know which one it's going to be. So I'm like, that has something to do with it. What's the reason that's like?

Too much skilling it up. I think bad for the game. It's bad for the game. I think it's like I think it's a combination of like a lot of little things. Like I think I think skilling it up like I think the game is becoming more skilled. It's becoming faster. I think depth players are becoming more skilled. You're seeing less and less less enforcers on the fourth line and more.

the fourth line is becoming a place where young players who haven't broken into a top six minutes role can kind of play and those are more skilled players. And I also think there's been a whole lot of injured goalies. I think you look at the number of goalies that have played in the NHL this year and it's a lot higher than in most seasons. And I think you put a bunch of guys who would normally be playing in the AHL or in some cases, even maybe the ECHL, you throw them into an NHL game, they're going to give up a whole bunch of goals. So I think, I don't think that's like this massive factor that's going into it. But I think, there are a lot of little factors that are kind of adding to it.

And finally, remember last week we talked about Ryan Hartman telling Evander Cain that he is number one and using a specific finger in doing so. We told you on last week's show he was fined $4,250, which let's face it for a professional hockey player is not a lot of money. But some wild fans and some Evander Cain haters decided it was too much money for him to pay. And they started firing him money on Benmo, including Evander Cain's ex-wife, who sent him 200 bucks. And it all really started with a $10 donation, but we know how the internet works, guys.

Everyone just started firing him money. I laughed my ass off when I saw this story. What was your reaction? Jesse? Yeah. And the fact that he's giving it to charity is cool. Obviously, he doesn't need that. He doesn't need the fans to pay that for him. It's probably more than that now. Was it really up to that high? I didn't see. I didn't see that eye either. Well, at least charity's getting some money out of it. But come on, this is hilarious. Flipping the bird for charity. I love it. This is great.

It reminds me of this ad that the NHL had a few years ago that was like no soap operas just hockey. This is kind of a soap opera to me. I love it. I love it. I literally watch sports because they are soap operas for me. Exactly. Come on, it's not just about the game. It's about the story around the game.

I didn't realize it's gone that high. So that's pretty great. Before the show, we asked you guys, What celebrity you would love to see on a piece of your team, Sarah? What kind of responses are we getting? Yes. The person with a Twitter name, your cousin from Boston, said, I will literally take a Kardashian if it meant getting rid of Jeremy Jacobs and family.

We got a lot of Kardashian adjacent situations there. We got Kanye, as you predicted. I mean, it would be someone said, Cinda the gatekeeper, but Kanye West, I don't feel like any justification is necessary here. And that's exactly how you'd sum it up, right? like he may not be your favorite, but he's going to be a mover and shaker. Any celebrities you guys would like? Someone posted a picture of a Pamela Anderson hockey card.

I just, I feel like I need to get that out there. I did not know a Pamela Anderson hockey card existed. There's a Vancouver Canucks puck on the hockey card. It's very strange. I feel like she's so synonymous with American Baywatch that you forget. She's from Vancouver, but it's true. I like,

we Canadians don't forget the Pamela Anderson is one of us, all right? We don't forget that. I like Brian Bastian suggestion, Dolly Parton, Dolly Parton with the Nashville Predators. That's perfect. Count me in for that. Yeah, it works. Yeah. For sure.

I would love to just see somebody who can bring other people around for like even like, like Ryan had talked about with performances and stuff. Like I would just love like you got to feel like a like a Jayze or someone who he could bring to the table to just to make things more entertaining. I think would be a lot of fun. But thanks everybody for all of your responses. guys, what are you working on this week? Sir, we'll start with you. Freddie Anderson news, I suppose, just trudging towards the playoffs.

What about you, Jesse? Yeah, I'm looking at trudging towards not the playoffs. Trudging towards the golf courts. I mean, yeah, the Golden Knights have five games left. Pete DeBor said they've got to win them all. So I'm covering five must-win games over the next couple weeks. If they were to not win any of those, which seems likely. I'll be covering the first missed playoffs in the history of the Vegas Golden Knights. I'm working on a piece right now.

It seems like there's some disconnect between the players and the coaching staff in terms of the offensive system and why they're not scoring goals. So interesting, dramatic stuff in Vegas like always. Looking forward to reading both of those pieces and things you guys are working on. So as always, thanks, guys. And I want to let everybody else know what else we got going on as far as the athletic hockey show goes. Tage Thompson of the Buffalo Sabres was a guest with Craig Custin's and Sean Gentile on the athletic hockey show USA.

so be sure to go back and take a listen to that. They also broke down the Vegas situation as well. And Sean Gentile is having way too much fun with Vegas losing. He thinks it's the funniest thing he's ever seen in his life. And I don't know if Jesse agrees because I woke up the other day and there was like 60 comments on my story and I go to it. And not a single one is from a Vegas fan. It's just other fans just relishing. Like, this is awesome.

It's fascinating to see. I get it. I get people enjoying this because how ever since they came in the league, League. It's just been like, this is what everyone should do as an expansion team. Well, now you're getting a taste of the other expansion team's medicine. Also, former NHO referee, Tim Peel joins Mike Russo on straight from the source. So be sure to listen to that. And be sure to follow us on your favorite podcast platform. And don't forget, leave us a rating and a review. It helps us out a lot. And you can subscribe to the Athletic Audio Plus on Apple Podcast to get all of your bonus content from the entire network. And guess what? It's our turn to provide bonus content. This week we're going to talk about the immediate impact of coaches in the NHL. You start with a 30-day free trial, then it's just 99 cents a month after that. Right now, you get an annual subscription to The Athletic for just $1 a month for six months when you visit Theathletic.com slash hockey show.

The Athletic Hockey Show returns Thursday with Ian Mendez and down goes round for Sarah or Jesse. I'm Rob. We'll see you next week.