The Athletic Hockey Show - Jordan Kyrou's max deal in St. Louis, PK Subban still looking for a deal and John Tortorella's Philadelphia Flyers dressing room overhaul

Episode Date: September 14, 2022

Rob Pizzo from CBC Sports and Jesse Granger of the Athletic welcome Michael Russo, national NHL writer and Wild beat writer as the new co-host of the Athletic Hockey Show roundtable.The crew takes a look at the Jordan Kyrou max deal in St. Louis, Connor McDavid challenging his teammates in Edmonton, John Tortorella seeking a stronger dressing room dynamic in Philadelphia and the remaining list of unsigned NHL free agents led by P.K. Subban.Plus the guys discuss the art of the headline, Nick Suzuki's captaincy in Montreal and Bo Horvat's desire to stay in Vancouver for his entire playing career. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What's going on, everybody? Welcome to another fantastic edition of the Athletic Hockey Show, the Wednesday Roundtable Edition. We take all the big stories from the week, discuss them, argue them, prod them, poke them, do everything we can. I am Rapizel from CBC Sports, joined as always by Jesse Granger, who's in Vegas. How are you, Jesse?

We have a new co-host. We teased it last week, like we were some sort of wrestling promotion or something, like the secret man who's going to join our crew. Well, that secret man. is now with us. Usually he's all things Minnesota wild with us. He's going to be all things, everything. Michael Russo from The Athletic, our new co-host for the upcoming 2022, 22, 23 season. Welcome to the show, sir. Well, thank you guys. You know, it's funny. I teased Joe Smith coming to Minnesota to help me for about three weeks. So this is, this is probably nothing for people.

But yeah, no, I'm excited about a new role at the athletic, doing a lot more national stuff, but also keeping my eyes on the wild because, you know, as, as Jeff Don met, our illustrious producer knows, there's certain people that are just sort of wired to be beatwriters, and there's no way I'll be able to ever unplug that. But I'm really excited to work with Joe Smith here and have him also do national stuff and us tag team the Wild and then getting to do stuff like this with you guys. And keep straight from the source, my Minnesota Wild podcast up and running. But this is going to be a blast. I've watched and been part of the show at times, but I've watched the show a million times, listen to the show a million times. And now to be on it with you, too, it's going to be

just a great, great experience. All right, you already broke a rule. You said Jeff is illustrious. We have a rule where you just don't compliment Jeff. Yeah, I've been, Jeff has been sending me text messages for about 20 years. Hey, can you come on this channel, this channel? So I've known Jeff for a long time. And we finally actually got to meet in person at the draft. But it's funny, you meet somebody like Jeff and you're like, I feel like I've known you for 20 years, but it was actually the first time we actually got to like give each other a hug so it's pretty cool. So yeah, we're going to get together every week. Michael Russo now joining the team. Jesse, as always, will be here and we're going to hit everything. And we got a lot of talkers. So you know what,

guys today? No guest today. The three of us, let's get used to being on the same line. I don't know who's the centerman, who's the winger, and Jesse's always the goalie. He wants to be the guy between the pipes. We are not going to start with goaltenders. We're going to start with Jordan Kairu. Big news this week, eight years, 65. million dollar extension with the blues 23 years old set career highs with goals 27 45 assists 75 points uh your initial thoughts on this one guys because the blues are making a habit of eight year deals uh for players fresh off uh the thomas one but we'll start with the newbie the rookie mr russo what you think well i was stunned at the price other than the fact that guys like you know

elliard freeman andy strickland have been sort of teasing this for a while that it was going to be eight years of big time money and obviously this is another project contract. We just saw it with Stutzla in Ottawa. And this is sort of the new realm in the NHL of everybody. I mean, there's been so many eight-year deals this summer. And it kind of started with Eric Seneck getting an eight-year deal on an incredible price last year, a little north of five here in Minnesota. But Kairu, they believe he's going to be a star. Don put out all the analytics the other day here at the athletic and how it looks like he's absolutely on that path. And look, if he could play the Minnesota Wild outdoors at the winter classic, every.

year he'll score about 100 goals a season. That probably won't happen, but he just looks to me like they obviously believe he's going to be a stud, and we'll see if he could reach that point. He's going to get a lot more time with David Perron now, a lot more responsibility with David Perron gone. He'll get more power play time, and I just think it to be in a top six role to give him this money. They clearly are going to give him all the responsibility in the world over this next, you know, not just short term, but long term. Before we get to Jesse, so Kyru, Stutz, Huberto, Kachuk, Norris Zurgichov, Sorrelli, Chernak, Thomas, Nukushkin, and Forsberg. I was reading those fast because there are so many all eight-year deals this summer,

which is just crazy. Jesse, what you think? Yeah, Michael kind of touched on it. I think this is obviously a projection deal. You're hoping, I mean, he goes from 35 points in 55 games the year, two years ago. Last year, 75 points. They're projecting this guy's a hundred point player. They're paying him like he's going to be a hundred point player. To me, I don't have any concern he's going to be a score.

I mean, this guy flies. He's one of the best skaters in the league. To me, what's interesting is, and Michael touched on it with David Perron leaving, Cairo's been kind of sheltered. He is a score, but he, when he's not great defensively, pop him down to the third line. It kind of reminds me of like what Alex Tuck was here in Vegas for listeners in Vegas, like spectacular dynamic player that can break the game open, but you don't have to count on him for defensive zone starts and stuff like that. Well, now that you're paying him $8 million a year, that responsibility, he's going to go up. And like, I have no doubt that he can handle it. But that's the interesting part to me.

I'm not worried about his production. I'm worried or I'm, I guess I'm just curious to see. Can he be a top six player, tough minutes? Like Michael said, David Perron leaving is going to put him in higher pressure situations. I'm going to have to play 200 foot game. I really like his game. Him and Robert Thomas, I mean, they've got two really, really good players that are super young. I think Robert Thomas is even younger than Cairo locked up for the next eight years. If they're both great, these will be value deals and the blues will be in good shape. You'll have two players locked up for a year. If they aren't great, they're going to be in trouble. But so far, they're projecting to be, I mean, I think they've got their two best players locked up long term. So good for the blues

overall. They're world junior teammates as well. That picture has been flowing around to them winning at the world juniors. But now I guess you look at what the blues have. They have O'Reilly and Teresanko heading into UFA. They've only got six forward. sign for the 22, 23, 24 season, excuse me. So I love the salary cap era because as soon as you kind of check things off your to-do list, the to-do list just keeps getting longer and longer. So what do you guys think of the whole eight-year deal thing right now? You know, more from a player perspective.

I think it's, I think it's down, you know, down goes round that's tweeted about this a couple times that he's just stunned that players would be able in a, in a league where the cap is starting in 2025, supposed to skyrocket. would be willing to, you know, take these type of deals that if, you know, as Don wrote, Cairo, if he projects out to what his models say, this is going to be an absolute steal for them. Yeah, I think it's a little short-sighted, but I think the players have seen these last couple years. The cap hasn't gone up. It's hard to, it's almost hard to imagine the, the salary is all going up. You're seeing veterans like Phil Kessel signs for $2 million.

There have been quite a few veterans that sign. It feels like there's not much money to go around. And I just feel like it's when you're in that environment over the last couple years where things are so tight, it's hard to think, well, these contracts are going to be worth way more in four years or whatever. So I get it like what they're doing. Like I want my money. Let's get it now. The money's been hard to come by. Let me get my eight year deal and be my family secured.

But I also, I do agree with you, Michael. It does seem a bit short-sighted. 65 million bucks. You see that, you know, we're talking about the eight. they're looking at the 65. And when you see that number, it's, especially for a 23 year old, I could see the allure of saying, like you said, give me my money now. Yeah. Do you guys remember Darcy Hortichuk, a longtime NHLer? He was a bit of a bruiser played for Atlanta in Florida. I remember having a conversation with him during the lockout. And in 2004, when we were talking about the salary cap era and he was totally against it and all that type of stuff. And I remember having this conversation.

Sorry, he was totally for, you know, the cap and all that type of thing. if I remember correctly. And I remember having this conversation with them about how the problem with the cap is that the big time stars are still going to get their money. And it's going to be the little guy that's still squeezed out or the middle guy. And that is exactly what's happened. As Jesse mentioned, I mean, have you ever seen so many good players that are just still unemployed?

I mean, Evan Rodriguez just had a sign for $2 million. Zach Aston Reese, who's had a pretty good year last year, had to just sign a PTO. It just feels like this cap error right now with teams out of money is proof. me exactly what it, what it, what it, I thought it was going to happen, you know, 15 years ago, 17 years ago is that the guys still are going to get their money that are the superstars in the league or the elite scorers, but it's the still the middle guys and the below guys are going to get squeezed. It's kind of like pretty much every other industry, isn't it?

Yeah. All the CEOs get all the money and everyone else are the ones are the ones that get squeezed. Let's move on to Montreal, guys. They continue doing very un-Montreal type things. Nick Suzuki announced as the youngest captain in Habs history, 31st captain in history, 23 years old, all of 209 games played in the NHL. I said very unhabs because you look at what they've done over the last couple of years. I mean, Marty St. Louis was coaching Bantam hockey and suddenly he's the head coach of the Montreal Canadiens.

You've got just everything seems to be different with this culture. They don't want to be, you know, and you don't want, well, still respect. the history of La Canadien de Montreal. Very un-Canadian-like. But I have not heard one negative thing from teammates or anyone about Nick Suzuki. So to me, this seems like, you know what? Go for it.

Jesse, what do you think? Yeah, I mean, he's super young. I actually got to deal with Nick Suzuki quite a bit. Obviously, the Golden Knights drafted him in the first round. And when I was dealing with Nick Suzuki, he was like 17, 18 years old. And I can remember talking to him in the locker room in Vegas. And I'm like, wow, he seems like he's like, 28 years old. He is so mature for his age. Just the way he handles the media, the way he talks,

the way he interacts with his teammates, he just seems way older than he actually is. So I do think that if there is a kid out there that that is that age that is able to handle the pressure of being the captain of the Montreal Canadiens, I think Nick Suzuki, just from a personality standpoint, is the guy. Yeah, I mean, I think we've been hearing rumors about this for a long, long time. and I read Arpon and Mark Antoine's story yesterday, and it felt like Shea Weber basically told him months ago that he was going to be the next captain, and he just accepted it.

And I thought it was fascinating that Martin St. Louis talked to him earlier this summer and asked him if he would consider this. And he actually took a couple months to really think it over. I don't think he was obviously whoever was going to turn it down, but just the fact that he really absorbed this and this was kept under the bag for a long, long time. I think it's pretty fascinating.

And, you know, every time I watch this kid, he looks like he's going to be an absolute stud. And, and again, you know, as Jesse said, he just, when he's in front of the media and he's just watching his press conferences at the golf course yesterday, he just seems to have this real confidence about on this aura. And I can't wait. I mean, talk about a really cool 48 hours. He gets to go from being named captain, the Canadians to out to the NHL Media Tour to talk to all the rights holders and things like that. So we'll see him out where it started for him in Vegas in the next couple days. it's funny they make a 23 year old the captain the montreal canadians no complaints little rbc logo on the montreal canadians jersey and people lose their minds i mean we talked about this a couple weeks

ago jessie i don't michael's your first show but it was going to happen we have to stop bitching and moaning about it it's not going to turn into european hockey but it's so funny like really you can debate whether or not a 23 year old is ready to be a captain in the n hl because A captain is not, this isn't men's league where a captain's responsibilities basically make sure we have beer after the game. There's a lot of responsibilities that maybe people don't know come with being the captain of an NHL team. And I remember when 24-7 first started and seeing how much, how much power is not the right word, but how much influence a captain has. Even John Tororello was talking to the team and he said, okay, we're going to head to the bus. And I think it was McDonough or whoever was captain at the time said,

He said, what time do you want the guys on the bus? It wasn't Tortarella telling them to be on the bus at a certain time. It was the captain telling them to be there at a certain time. So you can debate whether or not a 23-year-old is ready or not, but I just love that we still are so angry about the RBC logo. That it doesn't match the rest of the colors. Well, I'll tell you on both points. One, on captaincy, you know, the big thing, too, in today's day and age is bringing

a room together. And a lot of that has to do with off-ice activities. Like, I had lunch with Jake Middleton, a defenseman on the wild yesterday. and he was going on and on and on about the stuff that Jared Spurgeon in the Wilds captain and Falino and Dumba, the assistant captains basically do here. He's like, here we are. We haven't even, we're a week before training camp and tomorrow is our one off day where we're not having captain's practices.

And the three of them have planned all these different activities for all the players that are in town. And that's the type of thing that Suzuki probably, you know, still doesn't know, like that is now going to be his responsibility. And obviously he'll have a great, you know, I think it's Gallagher. and who's the other, the A there. I'm trying to think. It was Gallagher, I think Edmondson, who's a great, great leader.

So he'll have definitely people that'll help him along, but that's pretty, you know, I just think that's one thing that he probably doesn't know comes with the territory. On the patches, by the way, I just think it's fascinating, mostly from the number of teams that still haven't announced if they're having ones. And it's not because they're making this stance like, oh, we don't want it on our jerseys. Nobody's turning down three or four million dollars in, in revenue. you. I think there is a huge, huge right now battle to get people to sign up for these things, to get companies to be able to sponsor this because baseball is also selling theirs for next year.

Other sports are doing it as well. So there are teams out there that haven't announced if they're going to have patches. And I think there's going to be, you know, a good number of teams. I'm sitting now with Bill Daley, actually, tomorrow. And that's one of the topics I want to get to is how many of these teams do you expect not to have Jersey patches this year? It cracks me up that people are watching a hockey game and they're like a bagillion ads on the boards. Yeah. On the ice. Everywhere.

The presentation is brought to you by Verizon. It's like everything. And then this tiny little pat. You can't even see it on TV. Like the helmet. People made a big deal of the helmet logos last year. Like I forgot they even had logos on their helmets after a one game of it. You can barely even see it.

It's not that big a deal. Get the player some more money. It's like, shut up. I saw those complaints. I'm like, again, you could debate. State weather, 23-year-old should be captain, you can't debate. As Jesse said, you're not even seeing it on TV. 100%.

Nick Suzuki, yeah, Nick Suzuki joining quite an illustrious group. You know, you got the Richards, you know, Maurice and Henri. I'm looking at other captains, Bellevaux, Cornway, Savard, Ganey, and now Nick Suzuki. All right, we were talking about captains and Tortorella and everything else, so let's get to that topic because John Tortorella didn't interview this week. And I'm just going to read you the quote, and I want to get your reactions to this because we all know Tortskin, well, let's just. just say where he's torts.

Quote, I have major concerns about the locker room. I've spent some time in the office talking to players, talking to personnel, talking to general manager Chuck Fletcher, all the front office. I have major concerns about what goes on there. Before we even step on the ice, situations and standards and accountability in the room is forefront. You can't get squat done on the ice until you get the room straightened out. I think we have a little bit of work to do there.

If you're a Philadelphia flyer, is that the scariest? or greatest quote you've ever heard, Michael. Well, I think for the winners in that team, the guys that want to win and turn what's been a demoralizing organization around the last couple of years, I think that you're completely uplifted by that because you know also that there are issues in that room. If you're one of those other guys,

you're scared to death. And Torz is going to go in there. One, it's a brilliant manipulative move by Torz because he buys himself time now. If they suck, it's the room, you know, the room.

But I just think that he's going to go in there. and he's going to raise some hell. And, you know, I hope Charlie O'Connor becomes the Larry Brooks there. I think it'll be great theater. No, I'm just kidding. But, uh, you know, it's, it's, I think that's what I'm saying, Charlie. Yeah, exactly. Get the fuck out of here then.

Yeah, yeah. You know, just make sure you have your phone on mute before a press currents. But, uh, I just, I mean, to me, it was, it was typical torts. He's already set in the stage for what now topics will be in training camp. He gets everything off the ice. It's no longer to be about lines and the, he takes pressure off immediately of like guys like Carter Hart, and he's just going to go in there, and he's going to tear the room apart. And it's going to be really fascinating to see the marriage that he has with Chuck Fletcher as

well. And John's going to go in there and I think, you know, have the personality. By the way, just on a totally other subject, Tyler Mott just signed with the senators. And man, they had a good offseason. Yeah, they have. Tortorella, like, I feel like a lot of coaches would come in and see this and talk about it amongst the staff and amongst the management. Like, the fact that he's just coming, it's out in the media, and he's like, yeah, it's a wreck. We're going to, have to fix all this. And like Michael said, that's every question throughout camp is going to be about fixing the room. It's no longer about the hockey. I, like, I see it's in it like, okay, it's good. You're taking the pressure off the hockey. Yeah, maybe you buy yourself some time. But at the same

time, it's like, do you really want the focus to be on how like screwed up the locker room is? Yeah. Like, couldn't you have fixed this without telling everyone that it needed to be fixed? I don't know. It's Tortorella, though. He's different. He is his own. He's a rare bird. He does. what he wants. And it's, I don't know, it's just fascinating. I don't, I don't think many coaches would want this to be a public discussion of how much of a wreck the room is and how there's no accountability and we've got to get like, it's just interesting. That was the first thing I thought when he said it was, wow, like it doesn't shock me that that is the case. It shocks me that he's telling us all that. Yeah. But, you know, the thing with torts, like, and I love torts, but probably because I've never

had to cover him and I have never had any blowups with him. He's always actually treated me super well. but, you know, I think he, everything with him is thought. Like this didn't just come out, you know, instantaneously, you know, extemporaneously. Like he wanted this out there. And now he also puts these players in positions in camp where they are going to have to answer uncomfortable questions from the media. And I think that is all part of the thought process of trying to clean whatever he feels or issues up there. And I could tell you from my own sources in Philly, that was a bad room last year. like the whining that went on in that room,

the negativity that went on that room was second to none by some of the people that I've talked to there, and it needs to be cleaned up. And I think that's one of the areas that, now look, losing brings that, right? You always have a great room

when you're winning, right? You know, everybody talks about the unbelievable culture in their, you know, I guarantee the Colorado Avalanche have the best culture in the league, right? Right. Way it worked.

Vegas players talked a lot about that last year. Yeah, but they didn't when they had 40-something points. So I'm sure, look, losing breeds that stuff, but clearly there were issues there. This is not something that John just manufactured. You know, I've heard it as well. And as you all know, I know a lot of people that have been part of that organization

the last couple years. And I just think it is something that he sees as a genuine problem. But for him to bring it up publicly, there was a method to the madness. I love what Torts does to everybody around him. I haven't covered him on a regular basis, but I remember being at the outdoor classic in Philly and is a press conference and you guys know this. The press conference is where you have to wait for your microphone so you're kind of like up there.

And I remember going, I've been doing this a long time. I shouldn't be nervous. I was so nervous he was going to yell at me. And it really wasn't even that like controversial of a question. I asked the question and he answered it. And I went, I remember thinking I shouldn't be this nervous, but he just kind of exudes that at times. And that's why I asked if that's a scary situation.

We saw what happened with him in Linae. We saw what happened pretty much at every start. And I don't know about you guys. This sort of feels like, I don't want to say last chance, like if it doesn't work in Philly, he's done in coaching. But is his style, is his intimidation, is his outgoingness going, you know, on its way out. And maybe this is a last chance for torts. Yeah, I think, I think so just also based on the fact that he's been at so many different places. But he's still a young man relatively.

And he's, you know, there's a certain look at Bruce Boudreau, right, 67 years old in Vancouver. were I believe 66 maybe. I don't want to short change Bruce there. But, you know, like there are certain coaches that still, if a team is in the middle of a season, they're having a struggle, you pull in a guy like Tortorella from the sidelines from the bullpen and it'll probably be a jolt. So I don't want to sit there. But Woodrow's mellowed out of it.

Yeah, yeah, I know. Sure. You can all agree that he's mellowed out. No doubt. I don't know if Torz was ever going to mellow out. No doubt. But sometimes if you're in a midseason and he's without a job, he'd be a perfect guy to go in there and kick some, you know, tear some pain off the wall and things like that.

He does remind me a little. bit of when I covered my Keenan in Florida. You know, I, I, what you just said, Rob, is something that I do remember. Now, I was a lot younger than a lot less comfortable in my skin, but I'd still covered the league when I covered, when I covered Keenan for, you know, basically six or seven years. And I do remember sometimes when I, when I was about to ask him a question that was pointed or critical or things like that, getting just sort of worked up and stressed by how's you going to react. And thank goodness, I covered Keenan in a non-Utube, non-Twitter era, or we would have had a lot of things out in the public eye that, uh, that torts has had with other reporters. I mean, trust me.

Yeah. I think when Rob says he's like, like, is this his last chance? I don't see it as a, like, I think is, is this the last chance for his style? Like, can this style work? That's what I mean. That's what I mean. And that's what I say with Budroo me, seems like he's adapted to the newer style of coaching where I just don't know if Torts has that that gear. I had a great conversation with Pete DeBore last year about because it was when he was getting ready to win his 500th game. And I was talking to him about like, how different is it from 500 years or 500 games ago to now? Like what you're doing as a coach? And he's like, oh, it's night and day different. Like you, it used to be like totalitarianism. Like you are the like you are the dictator. This is a dictatorship. I tell you what to do. You all do it.

the power has shifted to the athletes in every sport. Hockey may be the least of the sports. Like in basketball, the players are running the show. Oh, yeah. In football, it's the quarterbacks are running the show. In hockey, I think the coaches still have maybe a little more power than they do in the others, but it's definitely shifted to a point where a coach cannot just walk into a room and tell these guys exactly what to do and expect to get results. You've got to work with the players. It's a partnership more than a telling you exactly what to do. And I think Tortorella, he's, I'm not saying Tortorella doesn't have partnerships of those players, but I think he does this, if this doesn't work, it's a clear sign that this,

the league may be passing that style by. Yeah, although I will say this, as to your other point there about how this is the one sport that still allows that hardness. I sat down with Dean Eveson for a giant Q&A that'll probably run tomorrow in the athletic. And, you know, Dean, if, if you don't know if you're listening as the Minnesota wild coach and his big style, is he is a players coach. He gives his big thing is I give the room to the players. Dean is very, very rarely in there. He delegates everything in his assistance. He lets the captains run that. Well, the Wilde just had their 50th first round exit in a row last year. And now Dean made it extremely clear to me this year. They are going to be harder. This coaching staff and him are going to be harder on these guys this year than they've ever been. So I think, and if anybody knows Dean Eveson, he is a hard ass. I mean, this guy was a, you know, he was a tough, tough ambre when he was a player in the league,

came out of juniors as an unbelievable score, realized quickly when he was behind guys like Ron Francis and Ray Ferraro in Hartford that he better change his style if he wanted a stick and he changed into one of the top checking centers in the league. And he's going to come here this year and I think he's going to be, he's going to try to take the hybrid torts. And I think that that'll be a real awakening for the Minnesota Wild

guys. I think that style can still exist, maybe to not torts his level. But right now he's going. one to a rebuild situation, a rehab, rehabilitation situation, and whatever Torts says in Philadelphia is absolutely going to be the way that it's going to go there. And I think that they need that type of style right now. Just like the game has evolved, coaching has evolved too. So that's what I'm curious to see what's going to happen in Philly. We're going to take a quick break. After the break, I want to talk to these two illustrious writers. See, I call you guys illustrious. We don't call

Jeff illustrious about headline writing because I saw a headline this week, guys, that kind of got me saying, what? And then I read it and saw the quote. And I thought, Okay. I want to talk to you guys a little bit about clickbait. We're also going to talk about Bo Horvatt. We're going to talk about unsigned UFA. So plenty to come. Don't go anywhere. All right, segment number two and the rookie Michael Russo already wants to jump over the boards.

What's up? You know what your illustrious comment reminded me of? Yeah. You guys watched Seinfeld? Of course. So you know the breathtaking episode? We're like, so I call Jeff Domad, Alastrious. You now call Jesse and I illustrious.

So the breathtaking episode is there's an ugly baby. and well anyway so Elaine walks in there's this doctor there that's looking over pediatrician the pediatrician calls Elaine breathtaking and then there's this ugly baby that the person is take the doctor is taking care of and he calls the baby breathtaking and Elaine got super offended and she's like if he's a breathtaking who isn't breathtaking so that's the that the illustrious reminded me of that like I still think Jeff is illustrious even though that we're using it now flippantly in the episode you gotta see the baby yeah i'm a bring up signfoil you're speaking my language um guys i saw this

as of you guys probably are in the same boat i read whatever i can and and headlines tend to catch my attention i saw a headline that says Connor macdavid said oilers still have a long way to go and i went did he really say that and i thought you know when i hear that i don't know about you guys if someone says we have a long way to go that's hey we're rebuilding give us five years and, you know, we're going to be a competitive hockey team. And I thought he couldn't have said that. And then I went and watched, you know, the presser and I read the entire quote. And he said, he was comparing it to 2017 and basically said, well, we only won one more

game than we did in 2017. So it feels like we're closer last year than the previous year, but we want to win. We still have a long way to go to get that, which means we still have a whole other series to win. Stop comparing. You guys are both. writers. I want to know, do you write your own headlines or have you ever had issues with someone writing a headline to say, you know what? My piece has nothing to do with that or that's

misrepresenting because let's face it, we're in an industry where clicks equal money. You want people to click. I understand how it works. But to me, I kind of felt like I was duped on that one. Russo will start with you. Well, anybody that knows my story. So I've been a I've been a sports writer since I was 15. I started at the Sun Sentinel, was there forever, and then wound up at the Star Tribune for 12 years. And so the genuine rule, the general rule with newspapers is that you don't write your own headlines, because also when you're filing a story at the gun after a game, you don't know where it's going in the paper, you know, you don't know what the size, you know, where it's going to fit. So editors do that. I've kept up at the athletic. I don't know what Jesse's

style is. I very rarely write my own headline. Sometimes, I will put a suggested headline. My editor, personal editor, Jake Leonard, which I don't think Jesse, you have, Jake's unbelievable. One, he's an unbelievable headline writer. But two, what I love about Jake is that he'll read my story and he'll actually send me three or four, like, which of these headlines do you like the most? And let me be collaborative and saying, yes, that's the way I would do it. And so I feel like, you know, now if now if there's a headline on my story and I feel it's

not exactly what I wrote or it's too click baitish, well, now I'm responsible for it as well. And so I think Jake does an incredible job at that. But I personally let the editors write the headline, especially after games, Jesse. I don't know your style. I let them do it a lot of times if I can't think of something. If it is a column, I try to give them a suggestion. Yeah, I do pretty much almost exactly the same thing. I'll usually write something in the headline box on the on the story but I my editor rich hammond he's awesome also he's he's so good at writing headlines and I always I tell even even when I file to like just a random editor I'm like hey I hate my headline writing if you think of something better replace it um I rely on the editor heavily

and and rich will do the same thing he'll send me a couple and say like okay this one's a little more aggressive of a headline this one's a little tame with like which which one do you have which one fits the feel that you want this story to have. When Rob said, have you ever had a headline that got you in trouble? It, man, it took me back. So when I first started in journalism, when I, like, I was still in college. I was an intern at the Las Vegas son. And I was doing, like, crime stories.

Like, oh, there was a car accident on this intersection or whatever. And I had an editor. I wrote a story one time. And, like, you're not, this is not a story where you're indulgent. Like, it's literally just the facts from the police report that you're writing. And I wrote this story about a car accident. and the editor, the editor wrote, elderly person in car accident, blah, blah, blah.

The person was only like 55, and I got like 10 calls to my office phone of people that were in their 50s saying, I cannot believe you would call this person elderly. I'm 60 and I am not an elderly person. They were furious. It's the most upset. I've ever had anyone at a story I've ever written. And it was just because the word elderly in the headline. The headline, the headline writer was probably about 25 when he wrote it.

Because don't you remember? Like when I was young, I used to think people my age were older than crap. And now it's like, I'm that age and it's like, holy, holy my, I'm not 55 yet.

But, you know, I will say like, like, just a, you know, one thing, like I wrote this Brock Besser story the other day.

My headline, Besser. That was it. It's all I put in the, in the headline field. And I let Jake take it from there. And Jake wrote the perfect headline for that story. Um,

But I have, the most mad Brian Murray ever has been with me was, and I can't remember what the headline was, but it had to do with, we were in whole Quebec for training camp. And that was back pre like internet. And he had literally a photocopy of an article that I appeared that day that I had not even seen. The headline was so off the map of what I wrote. And actually the copy editor got in trouble for it. because it was so not what I wrote.

But regardless, Brian didn't even read the article. He was just so pissed at the headline. And, you know, that's always my excuse. You always throw the editor under the bus. Sorry, I don't write my own headlines. Well, it's funny now, like, you know, I bring this up because you guys are writers. But nowadays, you know, I do a lot of videos that are digital videos. And so you're looking for a grabby title.

And sometimes that happens, especially if it's a question. You know what I mean? If the question is, you know, is Alexander Ovechkin the greatest, full score ever. Even if I say yes or no in the video, people will automatically just start commenting that you're wrong. And you're like, well, you clearly didn't watch it. And that one kind of got me. Maybe I'm making a mountain out of a mole here, guys. But I just, to me, that headline screams of like, hey, guys, be patient. And five years will win the cup. And I don't think Coiler fans are ready for another five year wait. So I wanted to ask you guys about that.

Let's move on to Vancouver because Bo Horvatt made a headline himself saying he wants to be a Canuck for Life. 27. He's entering his final year, that six year, $33 million deal, excuse me. He said, quote, obviously my career started here and my wife and I love the city. We love the people. We love the fans, the organization. So you always have that in the back of your mind that you want to be a Canuck for life. Yay or nay, does it happen? Jesse? Yeah, I think it does. I mean, the Canucks aren't in the best cap situation, but I do. think that, I mean, he just had his best season. I mean, he's 26, so it's not like he's still developing, but 31 goals last year, first time he broke that 30 goal mark in his career.

I thought he was one of the better players on that team. I thought he was a big part of the reason they turned things around. Obviously, Boudreau is a big part. I thought watching Canucks games down the stretch, he was one of, if not the best players on the ice. So, like, I definitely think that they're interested in signing him. You never know. Like, I think he's going to get one more contract. Will he want another one after that? Like, who knows? I don't know if he's going to be a conucks. It's tough to predict that far, but I do think he gets a contract. If I'm the Canucks, I want him back. What about you, Michael? Yeah, I agree. First of all, who wouldn't want to be in Vancouver for life? He probably's got a giant shack looking over the harbor there.

Or as I joke at Brock Besser recently, like, you know, I think anybody that has like a giant penthouse overlooking that water would, like there's something about landing in Vancouver. Like usually when I leave Edmonton, I'm in the worst mood. And then when I land in Vancouver and I look out the windows. I'm just like in the greatest mood. There's something about that city that I would want to live there for life as well. But in terms of the organization, they've got some work to do to clean things up there. But I could tell you, Boudreau absolutely loves Horvatt. I love Horvatt as a player. As Jesse just said, he's, you know, this is a 26, 27 year old player that's, that plays up the middle. That's as good as there gets in the league.

It feels like he's been in the league forever. He's only getting better. And if I could build around somebody like that, I just think that I can. And now that JT's signed and, you know, Besser for, what, three more years, I think he just signed for. If they could make it work, I think they'll try. Their cap situation needs to be improved. They've got to figure out a way to improve their blue line big time.

And so I think that is going to be a priority there for Patrick Alvian and Jim Rutherford. Speaking of signing, the laundry list of players who are still UFAs is pretty interesting to me, on, what is it, September 14th. You got Anton Stroman, you got Victor Rask, you got Sandy Milano, Andy Green, Chase on, Brian Boyle. But P.K. Suban is still out there, guys. And I know we've seen P.K. Suban's offensive production, we'll call it, dive off. And I've always said his offense always covered up his defensive liabilities.

So, you know, who's going to want him now? But I really didn't think we'd be sitting on September 14th that P.K. Suban still doesn't have a hockey team to play for. Any teams you're hearing? I mean, I think a Montreal reunion would be fun, but I don't know about you guys. What do you think of Sue ban still waiting on the sidelines? Jesse? Yeah, I mean, I think it's a case of like how many teams entered this off season over the cap, like half of them.

At one point, it was like half the teams in the league are over the cap. And it's a combination of that with these veteran players, it's hard for them to take a deal that's less when you've been making X amount. even if like, yeah, maybe my plays declined, but like, it's still, like in their mind, it's like, well, I'm not a $1 million player. Like, come on. And like just the Golden Knight signed Phil Kessel for very little money. And hearing Phil Kessel talk, it's like, yeah, I feel like the league is forgotten about me. I signed this one year deal. It's a prove it. Like in his mind, yeah, I'm making two million. But next year I'm going to be making six million because that's the level player. I'm. I think it's hard for these veterans that have been making good money for X amount. It's not even the

actual money in their bank account. It's the number next to their name. I, like, I am worth more than that. It's an ego thing, right? Yes, it's, it's hard. So to me, that's why there are so many guys out there unsigned, the combination of the how screwed the cap up is league-wide and the fact that these guys, they don't want to sign for a deal like that. They're going to eventually have to, or they're going to be signing PTOs. Michael, what have you heard? Yeah, you know, one thing also I would say that I am sure that P.K. is weighing and said if there has been interest in him, if he's going to sign that one-year deal, one and a half, two million dollars, it's going to have to be on a cup contender. And the cup contenders in the league, the teams that are considered it, you know, Tampa,

Carolina, I mean, Colorado is not at the cap, but they are obviously preparing, you know, one year deal they could probably do, but they're preparing to sign McKinn, you know, they're given some big time contracts away. I'm sure that he's just, you know, also, he's not going to go sign a one year deal with a bottom feeder, you know, he's not, he's just not going to do that. So, you know, frankly, if he's going to want, you know, a long term deal, it might be with ESPN or something. You know, that could be what's coming down the pike for him. You know, I'm sure NHL network would, would want them. But, you know, NHL network, I think, I think the,

the feeling is that NHL network doesn't pay a ton. You know, I could see him. He did some work with the SPN in the past. If this is it for PK, I can see him on TV very, very soon. He's been grooming himself for that sort of thing. Like, I always feel like he, he knows what he wants to do post hockey, but we'll have to see it. Speaking of post hockey, I mean, there are a lot of players still out there that not necessarily, oh, we know they're actively looking and we still don't know what their intentions are, the Joe Thorntons of the world, the Zadano Charles of the world, Corey Schneider, Braden Holpey, I wonder what kind of goes into that stage of your career, like a Joe Thornton, you know what I mean, where do I want that one more shot or do I want to just ride off

into the sunset? Could you see any of these guys doing the riding off into the sunset, Michael? I could. I mean, the problem is the longer it gets that you're without a deal when you're that age, the less motivation you have to continue to work out and skate and things like that. So that's the big thing is what, you know, I actually feel bad that like I've had so many conversations with Joe Resnick, his agent in the last couple days and I haven't even brought up Joe Thornton. You know, but I've been talking about for my Jake Middleton story and things like that and I haven't even asked him about Joe. But I bet you Joe is sort of in the similar boat as P.K is that if he does want to continue, it's going to have to be on a cup. He's not going to go sign one year in Arizona, I don't think. You know, maybe he would. But I think that's the type of situation he is. Obviously, he was, you know, not a big, big part of that Florida Panther team last year. And I'm sure that's weighing on him. And it's, it's tough.

When these guys get to a certain age, Eric Stahl's going down to Florida on a PTO, they just, you know, they're such lifers that they don't want to give it up, but they also, you know, don't want to be in a position where they're just going to, you know, just sign one year at a cheap deal. So I don't know what's going to happen at Holpey. I think he's dealing with some injury issues, you know, things like that. Char was at Boston. He just showed up at the Bruins training camp yesterday, their facility.

And apparently, according to the reports, there's nothing really happening right there in terms of contract with the Bruins. So it'll be interesting to see what happens with some of these big names that are, you know, in some cases, future Hall of Famers. I wonder if this could, like, go into the season, like, a contender that's at the cap right now that doesn't really have a spot in the lineup that's like, and then a week into the season, your left wing goes down. And it's like, oh, we've got four million dollars on LTIR that we didn't think we had. Joe Thornton sitting there, we didn't want you three weeks ago. But maybe now,

we've, like we need you and we've got the cap space. Like I wonder if the, like you said, they want to be on contenders. Most of the contenders are pressed to the cap as tightly as they can be. And they're settled right now. They're happy with what they have. But this is hockey. Yeah. What you have right now, you're not going to have in a month. But along with what Michael said is keeping it, keep it, when you get to that, I'm not going to call the, what did you, what did you get in trouble for going to elderly? I'm not going to call them elderly. But I will say at an advanced stage, as Michael said, staying in NHL shape when not playing NHL hockey is very difficult. So not easy. I'm not sure the thorns of the world. They're like, yeah, give me a call in November, December or somebody goes down. And it's just finding those right skates too. Like I've, I've, I've covered, you know, guys, I think Mark Parrish here in Minnesota where he was. without a contract and he was skating every day and into it and things like that. And all of a sudden, when all these guys left for NHL training camps, now he had almost nobody to skate with to keep them up to that par. So I think the only thing that like, I think if what Jesse said is true and these

guys actually might have options that they don't, that they can't say publicly yet, or there's opportunity out there that they're talking about. I think that at, at some point, we'll see them sign PTOs just so they can get to, whether it's that team that's plans to sign them or any NHL team that's, you know, because again, a PTO, you're still a free agent, you can sign anywhere. I think that you would see these guys sign those PTOs just to get into an NHL training camp, keep in shape, and then eventually a deal comes down the pike. The fact that that hasn't been announced yet makes me think that they really don't have any options, at least as far as now, or haven't made a decision about what their future is.

Or they're on a treadmill somewhere, just trying to stay an NHL shape. Before we go to break, guys, Black Ice is going to be premiering at the Toronto International Film Festival. on Saturday. It's directed by Oscar nominee Hubert Davis, executive produced by LeBron, Drake, and Maverick Carter, and it examines the role of black players in Canadian hockey,

obviously, the good, the bad, and the ugly. I haven't had a chance to obviously see it because the premier's on Saturday. I don't know if you guys got those cool advanced copies that sometimes we get. But we're seeing a lot of people involved in this, and I'm really curious to see

not only the actual film, but, you know, what kind of impact it'll have across hockey? What about you guys? Yeah, I, you know, I also haven't seen it. I haven't gotten sent, you know, a lot of times will get sent documentary reviews and things like that. I haven't seen it. So I'm a little concerned to talk about it just, you know, from a sophisticated standpoint because I'm not exactly sure what's in it. But when you were talking about, the first thing I think about is Peter Worell. Like, I covered him for a long time in Florida and the stuff that he dealt with when he was playing in Canadian juniors was just deplorable. And, and, you know, and, you were talking about. And,

And so I'm interested to see if that's where this is, this documentary is going or things like that. But I just think it's going to be a fascinating doc and I can't wait to watch it. Yeah, I agree with all that. I'm excited to see it. Hopefully they do a good job of, I guess, like, I feel like we hear so much about Jackie Robinson and in other sports. This has been fleshed out a lot more. In hockey, it's almost like, I mean, we cover the sport. And I think there's a lot we can learn from this documentary.

So I think it's a topic that if they do it well and do it right, this is going to be an awesome documentary that can they can open a lot of people's eyes to things that maybe they didn't hear before. Like I said, premiering at the Toronto International Film Festival on Saturday. We're going to take one more break. And after the break, I want to talk about the piece that Michael's been alluding to a couple times during this podcast, his piece on Brock Besser. He said that he submitted a headline that said Besser.

Well, it ended up being my dream is his dream. Canucks Brock Besser turns focus to hockey after a year of pain and loss. So that's a good headline. Got me to click on it. We'll talk about that after the break. Okay, so this is usually the point, Michael. I know you're new here, where we talk about what you guys are working on.

And we will talk about that in just a second. But I want to go backwards first. As I mentioned in the previous segment, you wrote your piece on Brock Besser. And dealing with, as the headline said, pain and loss. He had a very ill father. And he was trying to be an NHL player while trying to be there for his dad Duke and his family.

I certainly don't want to make this about myself, but I've never had a story hit me more personally. This is a story about a man who was diagnosed with lung cancer, beat it, it came back and he unfortunately passed away at a very young age. That's exactly what I've gone through, literally to a T with my father over the last year. We just lost him almost exactly a year ago.

I'm not embarrassed to say that this story got me, choked up. It got me thinking. It got me. And it also got me thinking, guys, about, you know, what have we spent this whole podcast talking about? Well, he's a $5 million player. He's a $2 million player. Well, he scored this many goals. He did that. And Brock Besser got a lot of shit last year at times where he wasn't producing. And you read something like that. And again, like, I've never played in the NHL and I never will. But I remember debating whether to go to Tokyo for the Olympics because my dad was so sick. I ultimately chose to stay home with my father and be there in his last days.

So I don't know how Brock Besser even showed up to hockey going through all that. But first off, fantastically written, great, great piece, Michael. But like, have you been wanting to do this for a while? Was this something that just kind of came across or break this down a bit for us? Yeah,

I mean, I have a relation with Brock and his mom for a long, long time. I've, you know, as Thomas Trance and Harmondale joke, I'm sort of the Brock Bester beat writer at the athletic. I first sat down.

down with Brock the year of his draft at a caribou in in Burnsville, Minnesota, and he and I just sort of hit it off right away. And so we've always had this good relationship. I, you know, um, new Duke, um, you know, really, really well, uh, and his mom, because I've just written so many stories about them. And he was as strong a person as I've ever met my life. So when he died in May, obviously I reached out to them and, you know, sent my condolences, but it was one of those things where in the back of my mind, I knew that late in training camp, the late and, sorry, in the summer before Brock left for Vancouver. I was going to reach out to him and see if he wanted to sit down and do this story.

In a large part, not just because of the loss of Duke and to honor him, but because, you know, it really hit me what you just said about just the crap that he took last year and the fact that, you know, he had 23 goals in what was deemed a bad year. I mean, that's usually a great year for a lot of players. And the fact that now he will for the first time not have this stress on him. Obviously, he's dealing with the loss and mourning and things like that. but he will now be able to with clear minds go to training camp and try to get back to the player that I know that he thinks that he is. And so I reached out to him and he wrote me back right away and said, yeah, let's meet late in August.

And we sat down at another caribou. And it was as gripping an interview as I've ever had. And you're right, Rob. I mean, it brings me back to when my stepfather was dying as well. And I think one thing that, you know, about what you were saying about your dad and my stepdad and Duke with Brock is, is that the really cool part. of all of our dads was that they got to see us have success. You know, Duke lived there and witnessed him win the national championship, be drafted, be NHL All-Star MVP in Tampa, you know, score 20 goals every year. And your dad got to see your unbelievable success in the multimedia

world. And my stepdad really is a big reason why I'm a sports writer. You know, my only regret is he never saw me get to the athletic because I know he'd be super proud. And so this conversation I have with Brock was his gripping. There were tears shed during the conversation because I knew Duke so well. And I do hope that people read this story, not just if you're a hockey fan, because I think anybody that's dealt with loss

or anybody that has an incredible relationship with their dad, I think we'll absolutely relate to this story. You don't have to just be a sports fan to know it because what it is is about a human being that's dealing with loss about his hero, leaving. Excellent piece, as always with Michael. I think few writers, in this profession, get people to open up the way you do and the way he did in that piece.

Just really, really good piece. I'm lucky to not have dealt with that type of tragedy, but I'm very close with my dad and it hit home for me too. It was a great piece, Michael. Oh, thank you so much. I think we need a shot in the arm like this sometimes to remember that they're players and that, sorry, that they're humans. You know. Yeah. No doubt. And I'm, I'm guilty of it. How many times all this guy's playing terrible? He hasn't scored in 10. games, what's going on. And again, not to make this about myself, but I remember when I was debating whether to go to Tokyo or not and talking to a few people and they said, your brain is going to be over here

and your body's going to be on the other side of the planet. And I remember thinking, I'm just, there's no point for me. I have to be here with my family. I'm going to suck, you know, trying to report at the Olympics. He somehow got through it and did it, you know, maybe not to the standards that other people thought Brock Besser should have, like you said, an off year or a bad year. But when you see what he was going through with his father and guys, go read the piece because, you know, even his last times being able to see his son on the ice and shooting pucks at him from the bench. And again, yeah, I,

onions in the room. I'll put it that way. I got, I got, I got, I got emotional. Yeah, you know, Rob, you mentioned like how this all came about. I'll be honest, I will say, so I was with Duke and Lori and a couple caregivers that are friends with Lori that were there with Ben Hankinson at that morning skate that I paint that scene of in the story where Brock is not only flipping pucks to his dad, but really staring longingly. And you could see in Brock's eyes and his head that he was looking and saying, this is the last time my dad's going to see me on the ice in person. And I was standing there and I was thinking of myself right then. I'm like, I cannot, like, I cannot believe what I'm witnessing right now. And I knew right then that if I ever told the story

after Duke passed away that that scene would be in it because it's, I'm not kidding. As I was watching Brock at the end of this morning skate here in Minnesota, just staring at his dad for honestly three minutes and with the most glum look on his face, I had a step away from Duke because I honestly almost broke down because I knew exactly what Brock was thinking at that point. And I, you know, Duke was the most gentle soul that you could ever imagine, just the nicest human being, always a smile in his face, proud of Brock. and, you know, and I am, I'm proud that, that I was one able to tell the story, but that Brock felt so comfortable to open up to me. It really reminded me of when, when, I wrote the story when J.P. Perese was dying and Zach was able to, you know, sit down on me and essentially cry on my shoulder about it. And I wrote that really lovely piece about his dad while he was still passed. And then again, after he passed. And, you know, there is something about, you know, we're sports writers and we have to be critical of these guys on the ice. And I

but we have to always remember that they're human beings. And I think that most players, I was sitting with Jake Middleton yesterday and I was telling you about my style and how I'm super honest and I'm super objective during games. And I will not, if he turns a puck over for a losing goal, I'm going to have to write it. But if he scores the winning goal, I'm going to have to write it. But when it comes to human beings, I absolutely respect these guys and want to tell, you know, really good personality profiles. And in this case, honestly, a sad story.

And I think when you have that respect factor with the players that you cover, that's when you get them to be willing to open up and talk to you about stuff like this. And I do think, you know, not that I'm a model for other reporters, but I think it's a lesson for reporters that you can tell these stories if you treat them fairly throughout a season. And, you know, that is that's probably my biggest strength is getting guys when you sit down and them to just, you know, talk and feel comfortable. It's tough. It's tough to do.

And you did it very, very well. So make sure to go give that a read. So we're going to talk about what you guys are up to and we're all in different cities right now, but come next week, you guys are going to be in the same city. What's going on in Vegas? Actually, come today, I'm going to be in the same city with Jesse. So Jesse, obviously, Jesse's covered the Vegas goal nights. I know he's rookie camp and things like that. Sean Gentile and I are heading out to Vegas today to do the NHL media tour, the car wash. It's the first time that both him and I are getting to do this. And the list of players that we get over the next two days are insane. I mean, it's guys like swayman zegress ottinger barzell macdavin mccannin mccarr stone kemper um ikel huberdo the kchucks the huses the um you know vasselofsky i mean the list of guys is unbelievable roman yose morgan riley it's it's just a crazy list of players and it's going to be long days um but you know can't wait to write this i mean you know we're going to go out there obviously there's news during

these little 15 minute gatherings that we get with these players we'll write that um but a lot of it is also working ahead. Hopefully on Monday, Sean and I will co-author a really cool, fun, meaty story about some of the things that I had said and the color of what these guys were talking about during this. We have some big picture stories that we're working on as well that we're going to throw topics. And so, you know, this is one of those stories where you might see some live, but a lot of it, you know, all of a sudden, in a month from now, something might pop up that we gather from this. Jess, you got something, you're going there with, you know, a goal in mind to work on a specific story. Or you go in the same?

Same approach as Michael. No, I'm actually going to be covering rookie camp. I'm more on, I mean, I think we've got the national side covered. I'm kind of just being the beat writer this week. It's the players are back in town. I'm going to be doing stuff with the rookies who are going to be on the ice, but also more importantly, the big club players, the NHL guys, their camp doesn't start until next week.

But this is the kind of a chance to get some preview stuff for that. I'm, it's been a while since I've gotten to talk to these guys. So I'm, I'm excited to get back to, uh, to, uh, telling some goldenite stories. One, one other story that I will tease out there without giving everything away is that we're doing a really cool project, um, at the athletic that I, I don't want to divulge because I don't think it's been announced yet. But, um, it, I think it kicks off October 11th and the first person that, um, is going to be featured in this, this thing is Mark Andre Fleury. And, um, I got to sit down at Mark's house, uh, north of Montreal,

all during the draft. I was with him for a couple hours. As Jesse knows, Mark is the nicest human being ever and could not have been more hospitable to me. I walk in his house and he's like, oh, you want me to make you a sandwich? You know, he's pouring out San Pelagrinos and all this stuff. And then we go sit out on his back patio, which overlooks the St. Lawrence Seaway and you're watching these cargo ships that, you know, say superior Minnesota and you realize you're in Montreal and these ships came from Minnesota. You know, it's just, it was an incredible experience. And so that'll be a really cool story that I believe kicks off October 11th and I'll kick off a project that everybody will soon learn about at The Athletic. Be sure to Tute in for that.

Show number one in the books, boys. I think it was a good one. I'm not going to be here next week. So you guys are on your own from Vegas. So we'll see you in a couple of weeks. But before we go, guys, I want to let everyone know as I do each and every week. Follow us on your favorite podcast platform. Don't forget leave a rating and a review. You get an annual subscription to the Athletic right now for just a dollar a month for six months when you visit theathletic.com slash hockey show. The athletic hockey show returns on Thursday with Ian Mendez and down goes round. For Russo and Granger, I'm Rob Bezo.

We'll be back next week.