The Athletic Hockey Show - Kelly McCrimmon's Golden Knights excel at playing by the rules

Episode Date: March 13, 2024

Sean Gentille and guest co-host Michael Russo discuss the news that Anson Carter is heading a group to bring NHL hockey back to Atlanta for a third time, and what they must do to make this expansion work. The guys talk about the powerhouse Colorado Avalanche who tried to keep in step with Vegas at the NHL trade deadline, and the four game suspension to Rangers enforcer Matt Rempe, and what the hulking rookie needs to do to keep his aggressive play in check. Kelly McCrimmon, the General Manager of the Stanley Cup Champion Vegas Golden Knights joins to talk about his team stealing the show on trade deadline day, how Vegas used LTIR to their benefit and Kelly answers back at his critics who say the Golden Knights are bending the rules.Get a 1-year subscription to The Athletic for $2 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. Good afternoon. It's another episode of the athletic hockey show. There's only one Sean on this one. McIndoo's on vacation. It's just me. One Sean, zero francs.

But I am here with my buddy Michael Russo, who's like an elite pinch hitter. I don't want to like damn you with faint praise there. But man, like we swung for the fences. I can't believe you're available. the busiest man in hockey media. How we doing, buddy?

Well, I've been canceled from about three athletic hockey shows, so it was definitely available. I knew you're going to say that. It's not your fault. It's Lazarus's fault. Yeah, exactly. We got a pretty good guess here. We got Kelly McCriman coming up to Vegas Golden Knights,

GM, Stanley Cup champion, men of the hour, even five days after the trade deadline. We're going to ask him, The questions you would imagine we'd ask and then a handful more. We're excited to talk to Kelly. But before we get to that, we're going to pour it over the thing that me and Mac and do have done every opening segment now.

It's the world's laziest framework for a segment where we just say, what we've learned, something we've picked up on over the last week or so. What have we learned, Sean? Rousseau, it's a weird, it's like, it's kismet, I think, for you to be on the show this week because you and I worked on a pretty serious Atlanta story last year

about the future of the NHL there or future lack there of whatever comes next for hockey in the greater Atlanta area and we found out on Tuesday we had Anson Carter go public he wants a team in Atlanta he wants the expansion process to be formalized he's got a plan in place

to potentially build an arena and Alpharetta which is you know, where a lot of the, which is where a lot of the discussion over the years has centered on, you know, and so it's, Alfreda feels like, I think, on some level of the missed opportunity for hockey in Atlanta. It was kind of popped up, you know, as sort of the headquarters of the hockey fan base there before the thrasher skipped town. And now it seems like Anson's goal is to, you know, take another bite at the apple. Yeah. And I think, you know, I think that the, that the, they're. things here. I think there are multiple interested ownership groups, which I think also has to be very exciting for the NHL, because he also kind of create up the price of and trying to find the best one. But the most important thing is finding a really quality ownership group. And I think that if you ask anybody, and I think the big message in the story that you and I worked on, that you

really took the lead on and talked to a ton of people on, on, you know, many on the record, many in background for that story is that the issues with the previous two teams and iterations in Atlanta between the flames and the thrashers were the ownership groups stunk. There were major, major ownership problems there, especially the last one. I mean, I think that you and I can both agree that if you talk to anybody in the league, you know, the Atlanta ownership situation with the spirit was as bad as it could get. And now all of a sudden you have, you know, a market that is a giant market. market TV wise, population wise, everything that is just itching again for hockey.

And I think the cynics out there are like, well, you're going to really go back there a third time. But when you realize that really just everything around the thrashers were just a major, major problem, I think it makes a lot of sense that they're at least considering this. And now with expansion fees that are clearly going to go over a billion dollars, we know expansion is happening. Yeah, there's not a formal process yet. but there will be two teams within the next probably five or six years in the National Hockey League.

That's just something that could be split amongst 32 owners. That's the reason for it. And then you have the added in trade with what's going on with Arizona right now. And it's just going to be really fascinating what happens here. I think the idea of expansion is interesting too because the critics look at it and they say this is short-term stuff on some level. This is like some kind of cash grab by owners because like, look, And you're like a billion dollars times two. If you expand a 34, like that's a tough thing to say no to.

The issue always and forever when it comes to expansion is going to be placing these teams in the right spot and in the right circumstances to succeed. Because yes, the billion dollar price tag is great. Yes, that split between 32 other owners is awesome. But if you're bringing in a group that's going to be on life support in five or six years and then turn into a draft. on on league revenues, then you have a whole, a whole kind of other problem, right? And that's what we saw from Atlanta,

especially at the end there, when you had an ownership group that was primarily interested in the hawks and primarily interested in the downtown arena and had to take on a hockey team basically as an afterthought there, A, B, there was major legal issues from the jump with those guys.

They couldn't stop suing each other. There was a series of lawsuits that just sort of put everyone behind eight ball there. And then the other issue, of course, is that the arena seemed like it was in, it was in the wrong place because Atlanta traffic is legendary. I think both of us have sat in it to varying degrees over the years. It's, it's no joke.

So to have a fan base, you know, in Alpharetta, when that's however far from downtown Atlanta, it was just kind of, it was a non-starter. And all of those issues theoretically, you know, whether we're talking on the incident or some of the other buyers who,

or potential buyers who are involved, all those issues have been, in theory, have been resolved. And it's going to be interesting to see how it works out because again, man, you just keep coming. I know you said it, I've said it. You just keep coming back to that price tag. You're like this billion dollar expansion fee payout, whether it's Salt Lake City, whether it's Atlanta, whether it's Houston, regardless of where it happens, that's just an amount of money that I think is overwhelming and too much and too much for anybody to say no to at this point. You know, to get to your original point where they put the arena is extremely important. I mean, you know, we just saw, I was in Atlanta, what, two, three weeks ago, drove up to Marietta, drove right by the new Braves ballpark.

And it's right there on the, you know, between the 285 and I-75 area. And Alpharetta is even, you know, further off than that. But the reality is that the Braves have been a huge success there since they moved from Turner Field. And it will be really fascinating because I think that. that there is just this belief that that people don't want to go into downtown and Atlanta, but you move them way up to Alpharetta. There are still hockey fans down,

you know, in the downtown area south of the Atlanta. And to get from downtown Atlanta to Alpharetta without traffic takes about 40 minutes. With traffic, you know, Lord knows how long it's done. Yeah. Pack a tent,

right? Like, you know, yeah, because that is always, and we, let's be honest, I mean,

how many of us that go into places like Ottawa, Edmonton, South Florida. We always talk about where the arena is situated and how long it takes to get there because it's not near the airport or the downtowns and all that stuff. And it's going to be worse probably in Atlanta. But they have really felt that that arena was in just a no-win situation. The arena, the way it was built at the time, too, the old Phillips Arena had all suites on one side. It was innovative at the time, but very, very bizarre to be at.

And so it will be just really fascinating how they do this. In terms of expansion and all that, I'd be interested in how if this, you know, I know we always talk with expansion, whether or not it sort of thins out the talent. I do think there's a ton of talent, talented hockey players right now where this league could probably support 34 teams. The goalies will be interesting because the same percentages around this league just keep on plummeting. So maybe soon we have to reset our minds of what makes a good goalie. an 899 is actually a great goaltender.

Dude, I've spent, I feel like I've mentally spent most of the season kind of recalibrating in my own brain what constitutes a good goaltender because now you're like, all right, dude's got a 905. I mean, that means he's pretty good. Whereas like four or five years ago, you're like, this is, this guy is HL, you know, canon fodder. I, you know, and I, the, the talent level, I think that that's a valid, that's a valid thing to bring up. I know that's a kind of a standard concern when you're saying, how are we going to

split, you know, NHL caliber hockey players between 34 NHL teams. But like, I still think the bigger issue long term is like, are there 34 viable hockey markets in North America? Like, and we're not just talking about places that like hockey. We're talking about places that have the population base, the corporation base, the, the land necessary to build like a viable arena, you know, the medium market size. All these things, like, it's not just as simple as being like,

oh, we're going to move, we're like, throw a team in Quebec City and it'll be fine, put a team in Saskatchew, or whatever. Like, that's not the way it works.

And it's, it's an open question. It certainly should be as to whether there's, there's 34 markets that, that, that, or what the best 34 markets are, right?

Right. And just kind of rearranging things to, to fit. Yeah, I, I totally agree with you. I don't think Atlanta will be that problem if they have good, good,

uh, good, uh, ownership just, based on the population there and based on the number of corporations there. But to your point, right now the league has bigger fish to fry. They got to figure out how to get fans in the building in San Jose. They got to figure out what the heck to do with the Arizona market is coming here very soon.

They've got to make a decision. They've got to, you know, if you're going to relocate this franchise to Salt Lake City, I mean, there is an unbelievable amount of things that need to happen. Starting with an ownership change and forcing one owner to sell to another, you know, making sure that. that arena is fit. Is that the most, is that the most complicated element here, too?

I know. Exactly. Because you have an owner. The coyote's owner is. Yeah, he does not want to sell. So I don't know what the rule is. Can you force an owner to sell what he owns?

That's going to be really fascinating. San Jose, every night I watch them on TV. They got, you know, it's like, you know, friends and family night there.

So there's a lot of, a lot of, you know, franchises right now a lot. That's not true because I, you know, I go to a lot of these games where they are absolutely packed and things like that.

So, you know, I just think that there was three or four markets that they've got to figure out exactly. I was going to say five. Yeah. The overrunners, the overrunners, the overrunner's five. And the discussion gets a lot more complicated. When you're talking about 34 teams, when it's like, well, we got to make sure that, uh, that percentage X of the 32 that we already have are in decent space.

Yeah. And I, I, my gut says that, uh, if Atlanta, if they eventually, if Salt Lake City moves to Arizona, Atlanta is going to get a team. And I really do genuinely think that the next expansion team after that will be Arizona. Like I just think that this league is not going to punt on that market. They will just let it, give it five years to get it shit together, find a quality owner there, get a building built.

And then I think that we're going to be right back into Arizona after, if the coyotes happen to move this year. I genuinely believe that. The two expansion teams will be Atlanta in Arizona. I'm sitting here sighing and rolling my eyes and groaning about that, but we're also talking about the NHL returning to Atlanta after, you know, 13 years away. So who knows, greater things have happened. You spent some time with a franchise that actually has its stuff together.

Things are going well for the Colorado Avalanche. And I know you had some points you wanted to make there. Yeah, I mean, there's an arms race going on, obviously, in the Western Conference right now with a lot of teams making significant moves, including the GM of the team that we're going to be talking to in a little bit, the Vegas Golden Knights. But I just happened to be in Denver the other day on the trade deadline day after a slew of moves where they added obviously Casey Middlestat. They added Sean Walker. They added Brandon Dewham and they added Trennan as well. And I got to spend some time with Miko Ratan and with Jared Bednor and Chris McFarlane.

And the one thing that's very clear, especially when I talked to Rantan, is that there is an excitement on that team that they have a management group and an ownership group that's willing to commit to go and try to win it all again. And I think what Chris McFarland really tried to do is pinpoint areas where during their cup run two years ago were significant. And the one thing that Jared Bednor likes to do is have a really quality bottom six that he can even out the ice time there. So at the deadline a couple years ago, they added guys like Nico Sturm, Cogliano.

This time they go out and get a really quality player and do him and Trennan, add some size and grit and allow him more confidence to play his bottom six. but then they go and say, you know what, we still cannot figure out a way to get cadre replaced here. Johansel wasn't working, so now they're trying on a middle stat. And then they obviously add Sean Walker after, you know, pivoting on some other guys that they were trying to go after. So a lot of excitement there in Colorado to try to, you know, not keep up with Vegas and, you know, all these teams that have made moves, Winnipeg, Dallas, but also put themselves in the prime position where they feel they can go four rounds deep. again and try to get back to the pinnacle.

Maybe they get Landisog back at some point. Right now they got Ranting and McCar and McKinnon playing at just unbelievable levels. But man, was it fun to be there on that day and contrast the excitement that was going on Colorado with the despair that was going on back here in Minnesota with the wild selling off pieces and the avalanche adding. Yeah, you got the, you have the doing, playing both sides of the fans too. I love that. I still just love the middle step trade too.

Not even just from a fit standpoint, even though he's great. The idea of Chris McFarland going out and just, A, recognizing what his team was missing on the ice, but also I think understanding, you know, what it meant night after night going out there and knowing that from the, when it came to the second line, you know, you weren't going to get much. Like, right?

Because we'd seen Devon Taves, you know, ripped the team at the end of December. you know, the vibes were bad. And I think, I think they realized on some level, you know, that they, that they needed more. Remember the whole Rantin and Lekinen stuff with his dad? Totally. You know, there was, there was a lot of places this season where it could have gone off the rails for them. And then just McKinnon just puts them on the back.

Him and Rantan and McCar at one point, like, you spent like on the holidays. They're playing like 25 minutes a night. It felt like, I mean, that's, that's what needed to happen for them to stay afloat. And you look at the roster, and you look at how bad Johansson was playing. And like, God bless Ross Colton. He's a good player. But like, he's not a second line center on a contender team, on a contending team. They got 11 points combined from those guys in February, by the way.

So like from February 1 onto the trade deadline. So something needed to change. It's one thing to recognize that. And it's another to go out and add the piece. And the fact that McFarlane did that in season at the deadline seemingly out of nowhere publicly, like who saw who saw that coming as a deadline deal. A, it's a great fit, but B,

it's just also, it's also a good way to treat your players. You're like, all right, you guys need help. You need help in a specific way. I'm going to go out and get it in about as splashy, a splashy fashion as you can make.

Yeah, I think all of us, when we get to the trade deadline, we start to think, all right, it's a rental market, right? We almost,

we pinpoint who's on an expiring deal and that guy's going somewhere. So then when trades like the Thomas Hurtle, one happens and the Casey Middlestat one happens with guys with term left on in their deals, you start to think, okay, you know, or at least team control in the case of Middlestat, start to say that's an innovative GM. And it takes, look, you know, the best GMs make the hard decisions. You know, again, the guy that we're going to have on here in a second, Kelly McCrimman makes unbelievably hard decisions all the time. You think he wanted to give up Riley Smith?

You think this summer he's going to want to make significant moves to get Hanifin long term and and have a hurdle there? No, but they make difficult decisions. And for Chris McFarland to go out and say, Bowen Byram, a guy that they love, that they are going to use his trade bait to go get that second line center with control, it says, you know, you got to love the Moxie. And he realized that Bowen Byram at some point was going to want more. And as much as he loved to be in Colorado,

he was stuck behind Devon Taves and Kale McCar. So, you know, for him to go out and have the, have the Cajonis to go out and trade a real popular young player that seems to affix the Sabres, by the way. You know, it's pretty impressive. I watch out for Buffalo. One of my good buddies is a Sabres fan. He's just, he very obnoxiously texts me after every Buffalo win.

I've heard more from him over the last week than I had in the season, you know, up until that point. But yeah, it's great. The abs go out and get middle stead. It's not just, you know, you said it. It's not just a short-term edition. This is a long, this is a, in a perfect world for Chris McFarland, this is the dude is going to be playing behind Nathan McKinnon, you know, for the next, for the next several cup runs. And you got to, you got to, you got to applaud him for it. That's the point.

That's the point. That's the goal. And I, I, you got to just tip your cap to him and say, great job. Yeah, I know Casey Millstead really well, obviously from being Minnesota. He was, you know, obviously one of the best high school players that I've seen in my 19 years here. Totally. I had one minute Minnesota, Mr. Hockey. I sat down with him at the 2017 Stanley Cup final in Nashville.

And I told him, by the way, if it makes you feel any better, I don't know how to do a chin-up either. And, you know, that's kind of lighten the mood to begin the interview. But, you know, so he's the one thing about middle stat is I feel like this is the sky is the limit. He thought he was going to go and be this elite high school player and just step right into the NHL and be in some time. Now we're starting to see a guy that's matured on and off the I. And again, you know, this is why you've got to love GMs like Chris McBarland, Kelly McCrimman. They make the hard, hard decisions. And Chris McFarland did not want to trade Bowen Byron, but you got to give up something to get something.

And he did it. And that's why I think all fans would love GMs like that. Like you said, that's what great GMs do. They make tough calls. And we got another one coming up right here with us. We got Kelly McCriman coming up next. All right. We are thrilled to be joined by this.

Vegas Golden Knights, General Manager, Kelly McCrimmon, Kelly, that was a big win last night, wasn't it? Yeah, it certainly was when you're down, two goals on the road and the third, those are big wins. So important win, we need to get doing more of it. I think that's something that was almost lost in the shuffle. I mean, we're going to talk about all the huge, you know, league shifting moves you guys made at the deadline. But something that got lost, and, you know, you said this when you came on is, you know, this is a team that needs to win some hockey games, right? Like, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, nothing's a given, certainly in the Western

conference, the way it's shaking out right now and certainly put yourself in a position to do it. Seattle, you know, that's a, that's a, that's a big one, because they're, because they're one of the teams that, you know, if you, if you go in the tank for a little bit there, or if you blink, they're, they're right there behind you, right? Yeah, they sure are. They've been playing well. It's interesting how our schedule lays out.

we have Seattle last night, Calgary or Mortimerite, which is the other team that's right there. And of course, now Minnesota have moved ahead of them. So, you know, I think in terms of our team, there's, you know, you really need perspective, which in pro sports, in the NHL is not always easy because we're in the winning business. And if you don't do enough of it, you're not going to make the playoffs. So for us, we really, you know, I think feel strongly about our team. We've had so many injuries, and it's not an excuse. It's more of an explanation of what's gone on with us.

So you have to sort of get past, you know, what you're seeing on the ice and envision what you think you really are and then try to add what you think and eat. So that was pretty much, you know, the thought process. that went into it for our organization heading into last week. Kelly, just more on last night's game, you know, it was as good a hockey game as I've seen in a long time, down four two and the third rally back. And naturally, it's Jonathan Marshallso that gets you the tying goal on the waning seconds and Jack Eichel that wins it in overtime. I look back on my cons might votes last year and I had them won two in that order.

What is it about these two that make them so elite, and especially Marsha So who just, I mean, consistently, every year just scored big goal after big goal for you at the best times. Yeah, the thing with Jonathan Marcia, so from the beginning, he is just always scored big goals. And, you know, the year would have been 2019 in the playoffs where we were in game seven. In San Jose, we had a three-nothing lead, you know, halfway through the third period, we had the major penalty that was called. We gave up four power play goals and just the pressure and the devastation that comes with giving up the lead.

And sure enough, goalie out, he's the guy that scored to tie that game. We didn't win in overtime, but he's the guy that gave us a chance to get to overtime. You know, two years later playing Colorado in the second round. and Colorado one game one real handily, Colorado won game two and overtime. Colorado was leading game three in the third period by two goals, and who's the guy that gets us on the board at Jonathan Marshall. So I've always said about Marci, he sees his key moments,

and it's, you know, part of, you know, I kind of start smiling because if you know Marci at all, he's just a real competitive guy that's had to prove people wrong his entire career. And that's what, that's where he gets his fuel, right? It's just continually rising to the occasion. And last night, obviously not in the same stage that some of the events I just mentioned,

but in the here and now, a really big goal to get us, first of all, a point. And then gets us to overtime. And for Jack Eichol, no nicer way to score your 200, 10 HL goal. And, you know, you watched us through the playoffs last year. You know, for me, Jack, is becoming an elite center in the NHL and such a good two-way player. I think that, you know, Bruce, who worked with one of the very best in Boston with Patrice Bruges are on, you know, compares Jack to having that type of impact on a team.

What kind of growth have you seen from Jack so far in this regular season? because I know people treated last, the playoff run, like it was not a coming out party, but a leveling up, right? It was him delivering on the promise that I think a lot of,

a lot of folks have seen for him over the years. But how has he built on that performance last year coming in the regular season? Is there stuff that he's better at now than he was, even in, you know, even in June or May of last year? I think probably,

you know, it comes with a great deal of confidence for him to do what he did. it was almost like he had to overcome, you know, public opinion going into the playoffs last year. Well, he'd never been in the playoffs. It's much how people had an opinion on what Jack's playoff was going to be like, but played so well. Played so well.

And when you look at the teams that we played against in the centers, he played against, I thought he was absolutely exceptional. and, you know, league of his own in terms of his commitment, his fitness, its nutrition, you know, really respected by our players. He's great with people. He's great with the media. I think he's very professional in terms of how he carries himself and, you know, Uber talented.

He's as strong as a bull. He's got tremendous skating ability. His puck handling is shot. He's a really, uh, complete player. So, you know, how that's translated, I can only assume that he, you know, likely feels confident and really good about his game and where it's at. We missed him, obviously. He was out of our lineup. He missed 20 games with, with an injury. And now, I think, is maybe four or five games back and he sees finding his stride. The line of Barbashev,

Michael Marciusole was really a good one, of course, in the playoff. Yeah. And we're, we're It worked out pretty well. Yeah, they're pretty good. And they've been that way again. I'm Barbishab. He's had a really good year for us. Marcii, we just talked about what was his 34th or 35th goal that he scored last night. And, you know, Jack, who's missed a little bit of time, has been tremendous. Yeah, Barbashev, to me, is still one of the best trades that was made in the league last year. Speaking of trades, Kelly, like, I'm the most unorganized person ever and just trying to figure out anything. I can't imagine what it's like to navigate in Anthony Mantha, Noah Hannepin, and Thomas

Hurtle trade, and trying to make them all mix in the days leading up, talking to different GMs, trying to get it all organized in your whole head. You sort of take our viewers and listeners into just what goes on behind the scenes when you start doing these talks, the amount of forethought that it takes to get these things done and make sure everything works perfectly. Yeah, I think, Mike, it's different than probably what most people expect. It's a process that begins, you know, well ahead of the final week or days. Likely, some people think that, you know, last Monday we started talking about it.

We wanted to trade deadline, okay? And it doesn't work like that. It's much more extensive than that. I think that, you know, the thing you just touched on, being organized, being prepared, those are really important parts of it, you know, utilizing the people around you, which is where I think our organization has tremendous strength with our pro scouting staff, our hockey operations people, you know, just the ongoing process of what we think our team is going to need, the ongoing process of identifying where there might be opportunities,

and then working at it. That's really, I'm not trying to oversimplify it, but at the genesis of it, that's really what it is, is those things. So that's what we did. We, you know, it identified, you know, we talked, I think, before Mike, about I have barbership last year, how many viewings we had of them. I think it was over 50 that we had in-person viewings of them. So we make sure we know the players.

And then, you know, you gauge or kind of forecast what they mean in your own set, your setting, compliment your own people, and then you've got to be able to make the trades, right? They don't always, they don't always happen. Certainly, likely more than the viewers realize they don't happen far more often than they do happen. So, you know, we were able to get three big ones done last week that I think really help our team.

When you add big ticket, like potential long-term pieces, guys like Hanifin, guys like Hurtle, how far down the line do you look? Like, how concerned are you with year six of Tomash Hurtle's deal or the discussions that I would assume you're having with Hannafin? How do you balance the present with the long term like that? Well, no, as a young player still, he's played in the NHL a long time, but he's only 27 old. And, you know, Thomas Hurtle has got six years left on his deal after this year and I think with as good a player as he has been in the NHL, I expect

will remain a real strong contributor through the term of his contract. So that's sort of our thoughts on that. Noah, of course, is a free agent at the end of the year. We do hope to be able to extend them. Unlike what I read

in the athletic, he's not extended. But that would be our hope that we can get him on a contract. And again, the age of Noah is perfect in terms of complimenting what we already have. Kelly, obviously, LTIR is a huge topic, especially with the fans, you know, and the media. And, you know, I get LTIR. Actually, as you know, specifically, I don't get LTIR. You've had to teach me about LTIR over the last couple years. Yeah, I know. But I do. You know, get the, I mean, look, this is a mechanism to help GMs if they lose a big ticket item to be able to replace that player.

And it comes down to timing. And obviously the last couple of years, Mark Stone had the back surgery last year and has the last rated screen this year. Can you talk about, you know, just what the process of LTIR and just the perception out there that you're taking advantage of situations manipulating the process when the reality is you're just using the CBA. to its full effect. And I don't think that the average fan understands that the league does police this stuff. Yeah, I'll sort of dig into it from a different perspective. I think what's happened over the last few years, and I guess really just read this week,

this is kind of a fourth year, four-year anniversary of the pandemic. And, you know, there'd been a steady increase in the salary cap for how many, every year, how many years preceding, where there's just a natural bump in the salary cap every year. And it's not necessarily that that bump in the salary cap is going to be spent on free agents per se. It's oftentimes, and certainly in our case, more often spent on retaining your RFAs that potentially have arbitration rights. So they've earned more money. That money has to come from somewhere.

And then I think you multiply that by 32 teams. And then you have a flat cap now for four straight seasons. and it puts a lot of pressure on teams that are trying to win. And, you know, we've made the comment. It's, you know, the last four years was a good time, good time to be a bad team and a bad time to be a good team because of the pressures that it takes to build your roster. So, you know, there's different things teams have done to try to squeeze as much value out of the salary cap as they possibly can. So, you know, retention on trades is one that you see more and more. We actually, years ago when we acquired Ryan Reeves from Pittsburgh, brokered that transaction.

We were in our first teams to do that. It's now commonplace, Mike, where you are, I believe Billy guaranteed it to last year. And that's the team's way of putting a, you know, a $6 million player on your roster at $1.5 million, when it gets cut in half twice, you put that player under your cap at 25%. So people understand that, but in effect, that salary cap of 83.5, you know, using the example that I just used is now, you know, 86. So everyone seems to understand that and doesn't have a problem with it. You look around at the NHL rosters of the people that have dead money on their books because

of, because of buyouts. those really cripple a team when you go to build a roster those are things that are really difficult to overcome. So we've never had to attach assets to a player

to trade, a player away, which has happened more and more again because of the flat cap and we have never bought a player out so we don't have any debt money on our book. So we're doing everything we can to get the very most out of our 83.5 million.

And then LTIR, where it comes into play, again, collectively bargained with the National Hockey League and the Players Association. And the, you know, the premise of it is that if you have a player that's going to be out of your lineup for 10 games or 24 days, you can put that player on long-term injury. So I think almost upward of 20 teams have used LTIR this year, which if you go back five years, you know, was very uncommon that teams would. So it's just been a sort of a ratcheting up of the process across the National Hockey League, particularly with contending teams, where you're trying to, you know, just squeeze everything out of it to put the best team

on the ice within the rules. In our situation, and I guess if somebody was going to be eligible for LPI, why wouldn't it be us? We lead the league in injuries this year. We led the league in injuries last year. And then it comes down to the timing when those injuries occur. So, you know, I've done interviews this week using Shane Theodore as an example. He missed, I think, 38 games after U.S. Thanksgiving. And yet we knew he was coming back. He had surgery, but we knew that he'd return to our lineup.

So you're, you know, you have a little, a lot of teams that use LTI, you know, sort of in season. it helps you manage your roster a little bit better with call-ups because, you know, again, teams have really, you know, run things tight if you're trying to run a 21-man roster, having someone in LTI gives you a little bit of flexibility to, you know, to manage that part of the process a little more readily. So with the injuries, it depends when they happen. In Mark's case, last year, he was hurt in January.

He tried to rehab. had had surgery, a back surgery the year previous, made it through till January last year without a problem, was as simple as was bent over on the ice to block a pass. And his back gave out on him. He tried to rehab it for the last kind of two weeks of January, then had another setback in his rehab, so the decision was made for him to have surgery. And so that's what we did a year ago this year. He ended up with a real serious internal injury, a lacerated spleen from a fairly routine check, more of a collision.

I don't think that I think the two players were trying to get out of each other's way. And he ended up with a lacerated spleen. So again, that's going to end his regular season and perhaps more. So, you know, we've, you know, we've been lucky. Our captain and heart and soul leader has missed the last three months of the last two years. So that's a pretty big setback. You know, as you guys have touched about already in this call, we're not locked to make playoffs. So Mark Stone being out of our lineup is challenging.

And yet, you know, the circumstances allow us to be aggressive and try to try to use that space. And that's effectively what we've done. And if we not had the injury to Mark Stone, we would have had to approach things differently. We still would have been aggressive as we could be within the confines of what our cap and roster allowed us. But this did change things.

And the league looks into this, right? I mean, they're... Sorry, I didn't follow up on your final point. 100%. Like this is, you know, very, very heavily scrutinized by the league. And, you know, we, we, yeah, we've done it the last two years. So we know exactly what that process looks like.

And yet, you know, marked back surgery wasn't routine, if there is such a thing as routine back surgery. He had a, you know, an apparatus attached to his spine and everything else. And it was, you know, a little bit unsure. what its future might be, right? And then, you know, this year with the spleen injury, that's one that, you know, you can't judge the timing and when you're returning from a spleen injury, you've got to make sure that your spleen is 100% recovered

before you, you know, do anything with physical activity. So we don't know what that timeframe will be exactly all we know is what the doctors have told us, but it'll be a series of, you know, CT scans that are done. different mile markers along the way before we know exactly how long he'll be out. Kelly, the few GMs that I've talked to don't have a problem with this at all. In fact, one texting me this morning. I don't hear of anyone being upset.

I'm not. He's done a great job of making his team in shit situations like losing stone, just like you were just saying. But the GM's meetings are next week. You know, I know that, again, nothing can change unless it's collectively bargained with the PA. But do you expect that this to be a top of? at the GM's meetings. And would you ever be in favor of some sort of cap, you know,

related playoff roster where essentially they have some sort of rules to at least either ensure that if a guy is not ready for game 82, that he can't be eligible for at least part of the playoffs or some sort of salary cap in the playoffs? Yeah, to your first point, I think the general managers and the National Occup League completely understand the rules. So, you know, if you do, it's, you know, this isn't something that's going to be on the agenda next week.

And we take a vote to see what to see what to do with LTI. As you mentioned, it's collectively bargained and part of our agreement, you know, you make the point about salary cap in the playoffs, which I've, you know, heard and read this week as well. And it's, you know, worth me pointing out that, you know, last year, we've. played 22 games in the playoffs. We weren't over the $82.5 million salary cap one time. So, you know, it'll be, you know, far more people than me that weigh in on this when the next agreement comes up.

Those are all things that I expect will be discussed. And yet, you know, I think everyone that works in the game knows what the rules are, respects them and works to ice the best team they can. can under them. Is there just more front, like brain power in your front office? Like, like every time, like, there's so many GMs that like, you know, anytime you ask them, like, can you do this? Like, oh, there's totally impossible.

And it just feels like you all in Vegas always figure out a way to like, you know, yeah, we could get Max Petru. Yeah, we can get Mark Stone. Yeah, we can get Eichel. You know, yeah, we can get Petro. Like, it just like a hurdle. Like, I don't even know how you are able to crunch the math and the numbers, but yet it just feels like while a lot of teams have excuses on, no, we can't get that done, you guys always

figure out a way. Well, we're aggressive, Mike, and we have been since year one. I think that, you know, everything we've done is sort of demonstrated the approach we take right from our expansion roster, you know, how we came out of that with extra picks and some players that we were able to acquire through that process. And then, you know, because that first year, I think we've had this conversation before, Mike, because the first year's team did so well, it changed the calculus of what we wanted to look like. And then when you started to get down to exactly what do you need to win a Stanley Cup,

that's where, you know, the decision was made on a petrangul. That's where the decision was made on a Michael, because to me, without a number one D, without a number one center, I'm not saying that it can't be done. But if you look at past champions, that's in, large part how they're constructed. So we're trying to give ourselves a chance to win. We've got tremendous people in our organization. And that's, you know, I still maintain, I've said this many times. I still think that for George and myself, some of the work we're the very proudest of is the people that we've hired and, you know, the bulk of them are still with us. So we have, you know,

we have the resources, not just the resources from our owner Bill Foley, but the resources in terms of preparation and analysis and analytics and everything else that we need to do our jobs. So we have no excuses whatsoever. There's some things we can't do. I kind of dispelled the notion when I did media on Friday that we don't go after every big name. We are pretty specific about what we're looking for. The character is always a huge, huge part of this because to win four rounds of the playoffs, you're going to have some stretches where you have doubts and where you need to find a little bit more.

And I think that that's where character really is important. And then we've tried to, you know, our players, I think, expect us to try to win. and I think they really appreciate it because I don't think that it's the same everywhere, but I think our players appreciate the fact that we're trying to win. So Kelly, you're playing Calgary tonight

kicks off another series of important games here down the stretch for you. So we know you're busy. We know it's been a busy stretch for you. Thanks for making some time for us. Yep, happy to be on. Thanks for having you guys. Mike, we have a new chapter in the Matt Rampy's story four games for

elbow to Eunice Stigantzhaler's head a few days ago. I don't mean to put you on the spot here, but you've covered many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many NHL teams over the last, however long, can you remember a player coming in in the particular way that we've seen Matt Rampi come in? Is there, is there a dude in the past? You're like, oh, yeah, that's, that's an analog for, for what we've seen from Rampi in terms of the fighting and now, and now the suspension.

Yeah, and the scoring. He had a gold. I forgot about that. You see that goal that he had that didn't go in the other day where it was on edge and like curved? It looked like it was over the line. I mean, this guy, he's become a revelation. It's pretty fitting. He's doing this on Broadway.

Rangers fans, I know love him. He needs to rain it in, though. Holy mackerel. Like, he would have been perfect in the 90s. We're in like the 2020s now. And this just, this player doesn't really exist in the league anymore, which is what I think is sort of taken everybody by storm. and the league I clearly is trying to, you know,

shalax him here. You know, he doesn't need to fight everybody. He doesn't need to get his elbows up. Obviously, I mean, like, I've covered really tough guys in the league. I've covered Bougard. I covered Paul Laws. I covered Peter Worell. He's like a throwback to them.

And, yeah, and he needs to, you know, probably realize that right now he is under the microscope. Because it's, you know, one, it's like he's enjoying this. little too much here. But he's going to have a short career. Somebody is going to try to hurt him. If he continues this going on, if this, he doesn't sort of quit this. And maybe this will wake him up and get also, you know, management, the coaches and his teammates just say, look, man, just play the game. Play your size. Be an intimidating figure out there. That's what we love you. You don't need to go out there and try to hurt people and get into a fight every night. And I think that he'll have a long career because of that. yeah he had the breaks put on for him i think that was everybody was like is the coach is going to do something aren't the teammates going to do something like where's

this going to come from well he did it to himself with it with a saganthaler although and that gave you know the league the excuse that i i'm sure they were more than happy to take be like sit down take a breather like let's let's stop this from snowballing into something into something weirder than it already than it already has been yeah and he's had a couple close calls already, you know, Sean. So, so this was, you know, I think the league let him get away with a couple. And, and this

was probably a little bit of reaction to that. I think a normal player actually, you know, on a first offense gets, you know, a game or two. Although it does feel like this year, first offenders are getting dinged pretty hard. I mean, we've seen that with the Quran getting six games, right? You know, but, uh, this is clearly a way to wake him up. And I, and I have a feeling the Rangers

are also for that. in that camp. You know, they want him to be a heck of a player and they want him to not have a very short career because he feels like he needs to get back in the days of 300 poundy minutes. Yeah, the league did the dirty work for them. They don't need to, they don't need to tell them anything that maybe he doesn't want to hear. Like, they, they offloaded it. They can say, well, you know. You take care of this boy. It's not, it's not us. It's them. Yeah. I know you had a conversation with Mark Andre Fleury recently. Where are we at? He's been

really, really good of late. I think that might be something, I think there might be something that's lost just because it's, you know, just because of where the wild are at in the standings. But he's eight and two in his last 12. He's got a 922 say a percentage over that span. This is a dude that's still playing some good hockey. And I know you've had a discussion with him about it recently. Yeah, I did. I talked to him after a game a couple of wins ago. And I got him on the side. And I just said, like, you know, I just cannot, like I was talking to Bill Garan about this and Garan was basically alluding from the fact that I can't imagine him retiring after this season. You know, he's played his thousandth game. He's passed Patrick Waugh.

And now since he's passed Patrick Waugh, he's had eight wins since. He's eight and two in his last 12 appearances with a 22 and a 922, as you mentioned. And right now he's just been outperforming Philip Gustafin. So I asked him, like, where are you in this? Because I know for a fact that the Wild are considering bringing him back in some capacity, whether it's having a Florey Volstet combo next year or again a Volstead Gus combo and letting him go or actually trading Gus and having a you know something that's that's spicy okay well and let me and so I asked him point blank like where are you right now because you just seem to have be having a ball and a typical mark Andre fashion the quote I put in the athletic I wish I could read it like he said it because it's just

typical for a baby he's like I've had some thought this season and he's like and then he looks on the distance. He's like, sometimes I'm like, I'm done, you know? And then he goes, and some days, just like today, I'm like, this is too much fun into battle. I love battling. You want to feel that again and again. I miss it and would miss it. And he looks off in the distance of the locker room and he goes, but I think I'll stay on track and I'll make a decision at the end. I don't think Flurry is going to continue his career to go sign with, you know, the sharks or the hat in his hometown. I think he's got to be a place where he feels completely comfortable that he thinks he could win that his family is happy with. I know they love living in Minnesota. I genuinely think

as after this year, and I think at some point here, you've got to get Volstead up here to see what he could do if he could play in the NHL and then have that dictate your decision. If Volstatt looks like he is not ready for the NHL, then maybe you come back with a Flurry Gustafsson tag team if Flower doesn't retire and you try to convince him to take a one-year deal at $3 million or something. If Volstatt looks like he's the real deal, maybe you actually can consider, again, if Flurry is not retiring, bringing a flower back and trading Gusus in August. So that's an interesting little bit that you,

that you mixed in there. The idea of, of Gusafson, potentially on the block, you know, after, was kind of a bizarre, bad year for him. I mean, it makes, it makes sense. It's very interesting. I think that's the right move for Flurry, too. Like, I'm not surprised here that that,

that's the approach that he's taking. And he's been great. He's been great. It would be easy for him to say like, oh, yeah. Like, of course, of course I'm back. I've been, I've had 12 straight really good games and I'm this and I'm that. Like, he's not, he's not, he's not making his decision at a high point, just like he wasn't making any decision at a low point or other than the season when the performance wasn't,

wasn't where it needs to be. So I think I'm what I love about this guy is, you know, beyond the fact that he's flower and he makes everything so much fun and it's just a joy watching him is. but he was traded here to Minnesota after waiving his no trade, and he embraced being here. Not a lot of players do that. I know that this is the state of hockey, and they pack the building every night,

and they have rabbit bands, and it is a good organization, but the genuine perception of the wild is a mid-linked franchise around the league. And this guy just came here with his family, and he absolutely embraced being part of it, and even better yet, his teammates completely appreciate him and have just rallied around all the moniesies. milestones that he's had this year by becoming only the third goalie in history to play

a thousand games and, and excuse me, fourth, and passing gua and all that stuff. And I just think it's fabulous the way that he's been treated here, but conversely, how he's treated them. And, you know, it's, to me, it's a special thing about, about this, about this player, because I don't think a lot of, a lot of guys that are future Hall of Famers would have done that. We saw him do something similar in Chicago. We saw him do something similar in Vegas after leaving Pittsburgh when he didn't when he didn't want to go in the first place right right like this this guy's been able to I don't want to say ingratiate himself because that sounds that makes it sound disingenuous and it's and it's not like he's he's been

able to kind of build himself into the fabric of like really four different franchises now yeah and quickly I mean he is a respect I've never seen a teammate as respected like they wild were so proud of the fact that he did that his teammates I'm saying that he achieved all these milestones in their jersey this year and that they were part of it. And, you know, I was in Arizona the other day and going out to dinner myself and I look in the lobby of the hotel and there's Cabrilla Caprisoff and Mark Andre Fleury having dinner together in the lobby of the hotel. You know, a guy that's a French-Canadian native speaker, a guy that's a Russian native speaker, guy that's 20, you know, turning 26 or whatever. And,

and, um, and flower who's 39. And, you know, yet you just see the respect level of caprice and flower. it's just pretty cool. Very cool. Thanks for being here, man. Yeah, this is cool. Where are you headed to? I know you're going to the GM meetings, right? Yeah, I'm going to the GM's meetings.

I wish you were coming along, Sean. We had a blast last year. I mean, whatever. I was a late addition to that one. You never know. I might sneak on a plane and head down. Well, I think LeBron didn't want to stay at the Fairfield in last year. That's going to do it this year.

He's Pierre LeBrunn. He can't stick that guy into residence. in, it's never going to happen. Yeah, exactly. So, but right now, yeah, it's CJ, Pierre and me covering it for the athletic. But I had a blast with you. We were good teammates last year. I wrote a couple of meaty stories, meaty notebooks, got some features for down the height.

I think we started working on that Atlanta story together down there. I remember talking to Don Waddell and Waddell is pretty candid. So, yeah. Don being candid. Imagine that early on. But yeah, I got a couple of features down there. And then CJ and I will do all the news with Pierre. So it would be fun.

I love covering those things, you know, seeing all the hoot of everybody in the league. And so we'll have some really good stories in the athletic a little while. What do you think Kelly meant? Who was the person that wrote that Noah Haditham? I didn't even give me a chance to say that it wasn't me. Kelly read everything. I learned that last year.

I wrote a game story, a game story on the Dallas Stars Minnesota Wild. And in the word 2000, I was mentioning all the teams. He found it. I remember that. Yeah, I remember that. And I didn't somehow mention Vegas. I don't remember why.

But he called me out on it. And I'm like, he called you out. And I think the longest conversation that any of us had over the course of that weekend was the one, do you have with Kelly, about whatever, whatever you buried in the game story.

I remember it happened in the hotel. He somehow seems everything. So it doesn't shock me that he somehow found a mistake in the It wasn't me. Thanks for being here. It wasn't me. That's where. Thanks for being here, Mike Russo,

and thank you folks for listening to The Athletic Hockey Show. Leave us a five-star rating and review if that's your thing. And right now, you can get a one-year subscription to The Athletic for a dollar a month when you visit Theathletic.com slash hockey show. Tomorrow, it's Haley and Max and me, as per usual.

And then next week, Macandoo's back. And so is Frankie Carrado. Talk to you that.