The Athletic Hockey Show - Ken Hitchcock on Team Canada's Olympic Management Staff. Plus Penguins GM search and the NHL Schedule Covid-19 headache

Episode Date: February 3, 2021

Scott and Pierre welcome four time Olympic coach Ken Hitchcock to the Two Man Advantage edition of The Athletic Hockey Show. Hitch discusses coaching at the Olympics, the five man management crew led by Doug Armstrong, announced by Hockey Canada today, and what it felt like to coach at home in 2010 in Vancouver.Plus Scott and Pierre with an update on the Penguins general manager search, what might happen to the NHL schedule if more teams have to miss time due to Covid-19 protocols and the guys answer your questions on another round of Ask the Insiders. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey, everybody, Scott Burnside back for this week's edition of The Athletic Hockey Show, Two-Man Advantage, Pierre LeBrett. We got a ton going on. In fact, as you and I are chatting, Pierre, we're getting ready for some breaking news. You and I are going to chat the Beijing 2022 Olympics, which begin a week from tomorrow, a day after we're taping this. And to help us get through that later in the show, we're going to talk to future Hall of Fame head coach Ken Hitchcock, who is a three-time gold medalist, but we're going to talk to Hitch in a little

while. And that's a lot. That's a lot going on. And in 2019, inducted into the order of Hawking Canada. Yes. That's right. We'll have to ask him. Did he get a prize for that?

Do you get like a ring or a plaque? I'm trying to remember. I was on that committee for many years. I know you. Yeah. Let's ask. Okay. We'll ask him that.

All right. Before we get to Ken Hitchcock and some Olympic talk, no short of. of news in the NHL. This is every week. I can't wait till you and I sit down to tape because every week there is some there's crazy stuff happening all the time and

right off the top I was curious what you were thinking as I was watching late yesterday afternoon news coming down from the NHL that yet another team has been forced to deal with the postponement of games, the Buffalo Sabres now

better part of a week before they'll be back in action at the earliest. And this is a little bit different for me because this comes after a two-game set with the New Jersey Devils and the Devils have been laid low with a COVID list number that now reaches 14, 14 players that cannot play. It doesn't mean they have all tested positive for COVID-19, of course, but they're on the cannot play COVID list put out by the league every day, 14 players. And now the Sabres have two on their list.

Rasmus Russelaena and Taylor Hall. To me, this feels different than in the past. Dallas got delayed to begin with with an outbreak there. Vegas had issues with their coaching staff and Alex Bertrandall, I think, is still the only player on their list. We know about the four caps. They didn't lose any games, but the four caps who were for a long time on their COVID list. Does this feel different to you in terms of how it's unfolded and maybe a red flag moving

forward for the league in its teams? Well, I guess what you're asking is whether you think there's on-ice transmission between teams. Is that what you're getting to, or are you trying to trick me into it? You can answer. You can answer it. I'm not trying to trick you. Not this early in the podcast. Later, I probably will. But no, yeah, I think the timing of it, right, with the devil's having their outbreak and then having played the Sabres over the weekend. I don't know. I mean, I think what the league has said in the past is that they don't think that on-ice transmission is. commonplace, but who knows, right?

I mean, honest to goodness. Right. With everything, with this pandemic, I feel like every day is a new day. So, yeah, that would be of concern if that's how the savers got it, obviously. But, and the savers clearly looking at John Vogel's story, right, not pleased because they were probably worried about already having a couple of days devil's players on the protocol list last weekend when they were playing. But I will tell you this.

If the All Canadian Division is the only one that continues not to be affected. And if you have to shut down the rest of the league, let's just have the Stanley Cup playoffs for the seven Canadian team. All right. Well, you heard it here first. It would guarantee the first cup in Canada since 1990. There is that. Yes.

Well, and given the excitement over the North Division, you might not get a lot of argument from a lot of hockey fans anywhere. But yeah, I think it will be interesting to see. And listen, we've talked about this a lot leading up to the return to play and how the NHL had the expectation was that there was going there were going to be these kinds of issues. For sure. They were going to have to postpone. Just like baseball, football had an NBA. I mean, it's happening in all the sports, my question.

Yeah. But I do wonder when we get to a point where, when Bill Daly was on a few weeks ago, you know, he hasn't. The league doesn't, there's no future in them, you know, putting things in concrete saying, well, if this happens, we will do this and because it's also fluid. But I do have to wonder, as we've seen more and more games in the rescheduling, I know we have a week. And actually Bill Daly, I think it was in a conversation with you actually said, you know, there's actually more than a week cushion, right? You can push the end of the season beyond July 50th by a few days. I think that was how he described it to you. But I wonder when we get to a point where there's no more room, right?

You have so much juggling to do and you know that you want to run four rounds of playoffs at best of seven. At what point are you like, we can't do this if we're going to have to rethink them. Yeah. And again, when you talk to, you know, the NHL about this, Bill Daly and Gary Bettman, particular have been pretty consistent in saying we don't want to answer hypotheticals. So it's difficult to pin a lot of this down. They feel confident that, you know, Stephen Hudson-Patros, the magical schedule maker, who was really earning his salary this year, by the way.

He always has, but now he's really earning it. You know, they feel there's enough wiggle room with all the, with the way the Matrix was set up. And that's what they're, you know, and they still feel that way. even after yesterday's news. But, you know, this goes back to a column that I wrote, not last weekend, but the weekend before, about getting through this year, but understanding where it ranks compared to next year,

next season trumps this year. And what I mean is, you know, with the US TV deal, you know, starting next year, with the Olympics next year, this season's about 20. trying to plow through it and whatever version of it gets done gets done, but they don't want to screw around with next season. So I guess it's my way of saying before you start thinking about how long they could play

into the summer, especially if the Summer Olympics get canceled, although we don't know that yet, work your way backwards as opposed to working your way forward right now. It's all about next season, welcoming Seattle, having a normal season, having fans in the stands, This year is about just getting the best out of it that you can, but not allowing it to dictate or affect X season, if that makes any sense. And so that would be my preeminent answer to almost everything that we go through here over the coming months. Yeah. Yeah.

No, and I'm sure that's what, I'm sure that's how, if you went into Gary Betman's office and there was a big board there, my guess is it, you know, there's a big, big circle around whatever it is, October 4th or 5th or whenever, you know, you want, 21, 22 to start and you go back. So it's a point, the point being you can't play playoff hockey in August if you're starting enough to work. No, exactly. Yeah, even if the Summer Olympics go by the boards. And that's, listen, the IOC is insistent that the Tokyo Olympics are going to go forward.

So we'll see how that happens. But I think that's an excellent point. It can't just, the runway does not extend forever, even if there were no summer Olympics. Yeah. So at some point, if this keeps worsening and the schedule becomes a complete gong show beyond repair, and this is just me completely, it's my own opinion, nothing that's come from the league, but to really answer your question, the season is going to be what they deem fit. Like if it's not even if, you know, if you can't play 56 games, then it's X.

And then let's have a playoff tournament. I mean, they invented a 24 tournament for the bubble last summer. So it's, again, think outside the box here. This is a pandemic, which remains extremely serious in all our lives around the world. This season will be whatever it can be, not necessarily what it was meant to me. And that's it. I find that's kind of poetic of you. And I think that's, I think, A, it's accurate, but it's very, that's a beautiful way I put it.

In fact, I'm making notes now. I may use that in the story. I've enjoyed your big Beijing Olympic one-year lookout piece there. We're looking at, because it's worth, you know, again, it's worth reminding people with all the Olympic news we're getting this week on our projected rosters and Team Canada announcing its management team on this day, led by Doug Armstrong, that the NHL and HLPA still have not negotiated the Olympic agreement with the IOC and the WHOC, which you get into in your piece.

it's not to say there's a red flag there. I don't think they anticipated being done by now. But I also don't think they want to wait until July. So, you know, time is of the essence, as you talked about in your piece. Yeah. All right. Some other news. You know what was a week ago when you and I were taping?

I mean, literally, we had stopped taping and all of a sudden you and I were both like looking at our phones and emails and it was like, oh, my gosh, Jim Rutherford has stepped away as a GM in the Pittsburgh Bang. It was kind of, it was a very, very shocking situation. And I'm just, sorry, I'm laughing not at that situation. Obviously, we both are huge fans of Jim Rutherford, but I'm laughing because

later that day, I got a text from someone who said, did you guys know all along? Jim Rutherford was stepping down and that's why you had Ray Shiro on your podcast. I said, no, if we knew that, we would have waited until after the announcement to ask Ray Shiro about it, but no. In fact, it was the worst timing

of all because we had no Jen Rutherford news in that podcast, yeah. That's right, exactly. And in fact, and I'm sure it was the same for you, you know, traded tax with Ray and was like, okay, what's going on? I was like, okay, yeah. I'm curious how you see, it's so fascinating to watch because it rarely

happens with a GM search in the middle of the seasons. It's happened a couple times in recent years, but that generally isn't how it goes. And I wonder how important, how important is this higher for the Pittsburgh penguins? Because they're in a And they're in such an interesting spot, right? Like they're not, lots of GM's jobs come open because the team has crashed out and they're rebuilding.

And, you know, this is a team with, you know, multiple Hall of Famers. You've got one of the greatest players of all time in Sidney Crosby still, you know, still playing at a very high level. How important is this higher, do you think? Yeah, it's gigantic. And I think I would love to be a fly in the wall for some of the interviews. especially when the interviews, or the second wave interviews where Ron Berkle and Marilyn Lemieux are involved. I think for the first wave, it's mostly the Morehouse's CEO involved.

And they're hoping, by the way, to cut down their list by the end of the week and really start zeroing in on a handful of candidates. I would love to be a fly in the wall because I'm always, I think there's two different types of candidates that go through this process. there's the candidates that will say whatever it takes to get hired because they know what the owners probably want to hear. And listen, I get it. Why not?

You want to get a job, right? But there's also candidates who are like, I'm only taking this job if it's on my terms and if there's some truth serum here. And I'm warning them some of the candidates because the penguins absolutely believe. And by the way, they may be right. You know, Dave Morehouse said this on his media veil, right, last week, that they're still in win now mode. And it may be that some.

Some of the candidates also see that given that you still have, you know, Crosby, Malcolm, Latang, etc. But there may be other candidates who go into the process and say, I'm sorry to tell you this, but you need to start tearing this down now. If you want to, you know, like obviously it's been a painful transition for L.A. and Chicago, although already with L.A., we're seeing some fruit there. And Chicago's, you know, I feel like you're seeing what that could be too, but it's painful when you're going through it. You know, what happens if the person they actually want to hire is of that mind? And how does that affect who the penguins hire? That's what I'm fascinated by. No, and it's funny.

I'm working on a piece, sort of trying to take a look at that process of hiring a GM and talk to some senior executives who've been on one side and a bunch of GMs and senior executives who've been on the other side. And you're right. There is that sort of line of how much honesty is too much honesty. And you're right. people at different points of their career will view a job like this in a different way. And it is, it is, I mean, how do you know when it's time until it's time, right?

I mean, the Penguins have had two, you know, disappointing playoff performances in a row. But, I mean, they did win back-to-back Stanley Cups in 16, 17. It's not too long ago. Like, I understand, I understand if you're the Penguins, you were like, we are all in until we're not. I guess that's the question. When are you not? To quote Barry Trots, who I always love this, you know when you know or something like that. But you don't know until you know.

Yeah. And which is why it's like the chicken and the egg. I wonder who, you know, whoever the GM is that they hire, when does this new GM sit down with Cindy Crosby and collect his thoughts about the vision versus team? I mean, that's a big part for me too. Like that's, I would certainly do that, given how important he is to that friend. franchise. But I say chicken and the egg, it's almost like if you were that candidate, you'd want to have that chat before you know if you're the guy, but I don't know. I don't think it's going to work that way. All right. I won't ask you to handicap the potential new GMs in Pittsburgh, my friend. But as promised, we are going to chat with Ken Hitchcock and Talk Some Olympics. Canada just announcing, as you and I are speaking here, their management team for the 2020 Olympics. Beijing, led by Doug Armstrong, as you had previously reported.

All right, my friend, as promised, we are now joined by Ken Hitchcock, a special advisor with the Edmonton Oilers, Stanley Cup champion, former Jack Adams winner, number three, all time in wins by an NHL coat. And really, right off the top, Ken, I have to ask you, I'm wondering how much you miss me. I mean, you and I spent a lot of time together during that 17-18 season. in Dallas, I'm just wondering, you know, how are things going for you? We don't see each other every day anymore. Well, we had a great time together.

I mean, we solved a lot of problems that the world was screwing up. That's the truth. Look at the mess the world's in since we stopped being together. Holy smokes. No, I'm doing well. I work a lot with Bakersfield and the coaching staff there. Do quite a bit of work even with the junior team, the Oil Kings, that the order's own. And then Kenny and I talk probably every second day or sometimes

even every day, just kind of either text or visit and I stay in touch with him. And, you know, I provided what I call my Monday musings, so all my ideas on how to keep things going. And, you know, I'm enjoying it. I'm enjoying, you know, I especially love spending time with Jay Woodcroft and his staff. And we've spent a lot of time. time on Zoom together and, you know, being in Bakersfield and stuff like that a few times. Like, it's, it's being really enjoyable, a young staff like that that's trying to get better every day, and they're really receptive to some of the wacky ideas that I kind of show them. Well, you mentioned, you know, your relationship still with Ken Holland again, and, you know,

he was just announced as we're taking this as part of the Olympic management team, along with his boss, Doug Armstrong. So they brought those two guys back together. They were running the World Cup team in 2016. So you've worked with Ken Holland, you work with Doug Armstrong. What do you think of the old band being brought back together there for the Beijing Olympics? Well, I think it's really good. I think you, the atmosphere and the event itself is so intense, so emotional that you need people around you that can really keep it together because you know, there's so much at stake in the Olympic Games that you need people around you that can think clearly and aren't afraid to express their ideas and can, you know, you can solve problems quickly

because it's a little bit like a snowball. You can be pushing it uphill and then all of a sudden it can get going downhill and you can't get it corrected. And you need people that you really trust and believe in that can help you solve the issues right away, that you can either, present back to the coaches or or present to each other. So I think they're that I know Doug's friends with a lot of guys. I just saw the names there and I think he's got a great relationship with most of those guys. So it's going to make for a really good staff because you're going to need a you're going to need a good staff. That's that's a big part of not only picking the team but but arranging all the travel and and everything that goes on like that. It's a big job.

I'm not sure there's anyone involved in hockey now who has the depth of understanding and experience that you have with the entire Olympic process and three-time gold medal winner in 2002 and 2014. And I wonder if you go back to Salt Lake City in 2002 in your first Olympic experience and how it was different than you expected it would be. you mentioned the pressure and the emotion and how was it different than you imagine and maybe what did you learn from that first experience in Salt Lake City? You know, I found the number one lesson learned was your team really becomes a team when

the players take over and what happened with us was that we had a rough start. we had a group of players that came to us and we talked to them and they said listen you just give us the game plan and we'll sell it in the room and we had decided to stop practicing which I thought was really an important decision because we were a lot of the players as you know when you come into Olympic games these are your high minutes players and they were tired and we stopped going to the rink because it was such was after 9-11 it was such an event to get to the rink for half an hour practice sometimes your day was three or four hours minimum and the

players said just and it was really and it was really organized by Mario Steve Eisenman Al McGinnis and Rob Blake they came to us and said you just give us this game plan and we'll sell it hard in the room and they did that and and I think when we when I look at those championship teams, they really did take over the room. They take over and became kind of the salesman for us as coaches because when you get an Olympic team, you've got a lot of strong opinions, you've got a lot of guys who believe in a certain way to play, and you need to all work together and you need to play with a common purpose. And those players really took it over, and it was a real lesson for me. You know, I was in Salt Lake as well, Hitch, and I was sitting in the third

row, that very small press center, when the architect of your team, Wayne Gretzky, went on a rather famous tirade after the tie game with the Czech Republic. And, you know, I always chuckled when I think back at that moment, but it goes back to we were just talking. The pressure was unreal on you guys. And I'm wondering, as a coaching staff, how did you guys find out about what was happening with that? I mean, was it something that you actually realized only after the tournament, the significance of it or was it pretty immediate as far as, you know, that ran from Wingreski? Well, I would say of the four Olympics that I coached in, the only time I felt any outside pressure was in Vancouver. And the reason for that was that we walked to the rink every day and you walked the gauntlet.

You had to walk through people, you know, cheering you on, some making comments. And you felt, that's the only time of the Four Olympics that I felt outside pressure. But we had no idea until Wayne spoke how desperate things were in Canada and how tough things were. And, you know, we just were focused on trying to get better. And I think we honestly felt that after the game against the checks, the tie game, that we were really starting to come as a team. We're really starting to improve. but we had no idea the anguish back home or anything like that.

And it was our first experience at realizing how important this event was and how critical it was to everybody's kind of mental health in Canada. But I did feel outside stress and pressure in Vancouver, and that was the one where you felt that everybody was really hoping that you were successful, and they were trying to help you along. And sometimes it got pretty wild sometimes on the walk to the rink there sometimes, especially when the fans found out what our routes were. Well, and sorry, Sky, I'll jump in again as a follow.

I felt that way too, just from covering you guys in Vancouver. I always debate whether it was Vancouver or Salt Lake. Salt Lake was more, you know, people back home were obviously wanting you guys to end the 50-year gold medal drought for, men's hockey, the Olympics. But, you know, Scotty and I did that same walk. Scottie and I shared a hotel room in the Vancouver Olympics hits just to really...

It was a big room. Needed to be a big room. And, you know, we're not even... Obviously, we're journalists and we're covering you guys, but we would get stopped by fans saying, you know, after, you know, especially after the lost to the United States in the preliminary round, what's going on?

And, you know, then the goalie change from Marty Breder to Roberto Luongo. It was pretty intense, wasn't it, to be on home ice? I mean, I remember at the time, Scotty and I worked for ESPN.com, and Hitch, I don't know if you can find another comparison, but I had an American editor who said to me, well, can you describe why this matters so much on home ice to try and win Olympic gold? And I said, well, the only thing I can come up with is Brazil hosting the World Cup of Soccer at home and what Brazil would feel. Yeah, I think the thing that I learned over time with the Olympics was everybody wants to win, but then there's a certain stress and pressure that goes with having to win. And that's the feeling that you have to learn to work in in Canada. You have to live in the stress and pressure of having to win.

And I thought Mike Babcock did an unbelievable job. in helping us walk through that stress and pressure when everybody felt like you had to win and you had to live with that in that world and you had to function in that world and not get overwhelmed by it. Because there was pressure on everybody. I remember, you know, we would walk back.

We were in the same dormitories when we were in Canada or in Vancouver and when we were in Soshi and we would have to, someone would have to go and present the daily report on the players and the feeling on the team to the management staff. And you're standing there and you've got all these iconic managers, you know, Steve Eisenman's there, Army's there, Ken Hollins there. You've got a lot of guys that you really respect and admire, and you're having to present the case of the day on how you feel the team is,

and they're asking critical questions. So everything is magnified to the nth degree. And you still have to learn to live and function in a normal atmosphere or as normal as you can create it with the bottom line we have to win. To me, it's always been, I always love the stories about life for the teams and the players and the coaches in those environments. Do you have a moment away from the ring, not in the competition, but do you have a moment or two where you're like, I'll never forget that? I'm so glad I was part of that, of that experience being in the Olympic. I think the one that sticks out for me was in Vancouver. I mean, there was a lot of really unique events,

but I think the thing that sticks out for me in Vancouver, you got to understand that you have a dorm facility, which is very Spartan. You know, it's two to a room, sometimes four to a pod. You know, and it's very Spartan existence, like living in a dorm in college. and in Vancouver each player had a hotel room and you could stay in the hotel room or you had a dorm room and you had a choice and when we were in Vancouver the dorm facility there wasn't very many players

in the dorm facility on the first two nights and then we played against the Americans and lost and the next morning it's nine o'clock in the morning and I'm sitting out there. and we're having a coffee outside. And all of a sudden, there's this big stream of players with all their luggage coming off a bus. They're moving into the dorm. Come on, really? I never heard that story. Yeah, and they had made the decision.

They had made the decision that they were going to get totally immersed in the atmosphere. And so everybody just marched back in and moved into the dorm. And we stayed there together as a group. I don't think anybody for any extended period of time, maybe the night before a game, they might have stayed in the hotel, but not very often. But they lived the dorm life and they loved it. And I think that's what the players love so much. They love the atmosphere of the dorm life. They love the atmosphere of being part of a bigger group like Team Canada.

And I remember watching those players get off the bus and lugging their suitcases into the, facility and everybody checked in and then we lived in that atmosphere for the rest of the tournament. You know, it's funny because really the debate among my friends who were hockey fans is always Salt Lake ending the fifth year drought versus winning on home ice in Vancouver. And I try to tell them, and I'm telling you, Hitch, I get no audience when I talk about this. But, you know, I keep telling them that the best Canadian Olympic men's hockey team was in Sochi in terms of the surgical precision that you guys went through that tournament and did what you had to do. And I understand that with the time difference, it was harder for Canadians to follow.

And I also understand that on the big ice and playing the way you had to do, I sort of call it the keepaway style, that it wasn't as sexy. But I never felt once in that tournament that you guys weren't going to win. And I did not feel that in Vancouver. And I certainly did not feel that in Salvo. Well, it's funny, Pierre. First of all, the reason I think, I think me, just as me personally, because we never talked about this as a staff, we just kept going.

But I felt after the second game, we played in Sosha, that no one was going to beat us. And the reason I felt like that is that we had an abundance of players left over from 2010, and they were already selling the program. They were selling the program the first day. We had game plans written up, and they were veteran players. players were taking younger players and pointing them to things that they knew from before that were in place systems wise, terminology wise. They were selling the program already. They were selling Mike's beliefs and the coaching staff's beliefs.

And we were locked in on day one in Sochi. And the reason we were locked in was the returning players had locked us in the day we got there. I don't think any of us felt that even though it went to overtime, I don't think. think anybody felt that we weren't going to win in 2010. And what helped us a lot was the shock of getting tied by the Americans in the final. And then the calmness and the firm direction from the three or four veteran players in the locker room in between the third period and overtime calmed everybody down and settled everybody down. But up until the Americans scored that goal, all of us thought that we were in complete control. And then there was this kind of burst

of negative energy when they tied it up. But then the players, again, like you have to with championship teams, they grabbed it big time in the locker room. And I remember Mike, we were discussing quickly, what are we going to say to the players? And as we went in, I walked through the locker room and I could hear what they were saying and I told Mike I don't think you need to say anything the players are saying it already. It's interesting Ken because and Pierre just alluded to it with the big ice and Sochi and how you know how different that is but what is fascinating about Beijing in 2022 is that they will use NHL ice dimension so it's it's a standard NHL ice surface in Beijing and I wonder not just for Team Canada but if you're

whether you're building Team Finland or the Swedes or the Russians, certainly Team USA, this is a big Olympic for them. How much do you think it changes the thought process knowing that you're building a team to play on NHLIC that the players play on every night during the regular season in the playoffs? I think it's changed a lot. I don't think before 2010, there were a lot of the European teams played to back.

up system where they played a one four, five back in the neutral zone. That changed in 2010. And a lot of the teams went to very aggressive for Jackie. And there was nobody that backed up in 2014. So I think you're playing a North American game right from the start. There might be one of the, you know, if there's a country that's a little bit overmatched that might try to stall the game a little bit, but I think the thing that we learned on big ice was that all the big ice is outside the dots, not inside the dots. It's the same rink. It's the same ice surface. And we just learned how to keep people outside the dots very, very quickly. And, you know, we put a system in place that that prevented you from getting inside. And then we took advantage of our size and our weight

inside the dots and that's that's what we did we isolated people outside didn't let anybody in and then we had numbers and bodies that were willing to go to those hard areas to score and we really took advantage of that so I think right now the eight or ten major countries right now everybody uses a very very aggressive system and I think you're going to see almost a a completely North American game when the next Olympics take place. Yeah, I totally agree. And do you find, have you had this conversation

with your friends over the years? One of the biggest misconceptions to me have been covered a lot of World Championships overseas and obviously the Olympics. I was here, especially during the Dead Buck era in the NHL, it's, you know, we need to make the ice bigger like international. And I've always said,

have you gone to the world and watched a lot of these games? The D doesn't pinch for a lot of these countries. The big ice makes them scared to do that. It's often lower than hockey compared to the smaller ice. The bigger ice was never the answer in my mind. And now it seems like obviously, AAF agrees by putting North American ice in Beijing.

Well, I think the game is really quiet on big ice. And what I mean by that is you just, you can't get to the areas to make contact. So the game has no noise to it. It's very quiet, and it ends up being on a technical game, a very unemotional game. And I think having the small ice surface, like some of the wildest hockey in the world was played in Boston Garden, the Olympia, the Audin Buffalo, like 188 foot surfaces lengthwise. They were the craziest games in the world, and I know as a coach, I coached in a small ice surface in Kamloops,

and the games were just crazy. It was a difference between tennis and ping pong. And I think the smaller the ice surface, the more action there is. And I think that's why the scoring chances in 2010 and 2014 were really high. And I think you're going to get that because I think teams now have learned how to play inside the dots. All the European teams have people that are willing to do that. you're going to see a lot more robust games than you've seen any time before. A year from now, Ken, we're going to, you know, all things being equal, we're going to see

Connor McDavid and Leon Dreisidal and Patrick Liney and Jack Eichael and Austin Matthews play and all go down the list of the young emerging stars who didn't get a chance to play because the NHL wasn't in South Korea in 2018. Are there things you're looking forward to or how important do you think? think these Beijing Olympics can be in terms of, you know, giving these, this new generation of NHL stars a chance to play on that kind of stage? Well, I think it's, I think the stage is one thing, but I think the players love the part that they're a small piece of something bigger. I think the players are, they really enjoy,

like, like the two, the, in 2010 and 2014, our players hung up. with the curlers, short track speed skaters. You know, there's this, there's, and we would go for breakfast or dinner with athletes from other disciplines and stuff like that. You know, the skiers, the snowboarders were in a different venue and they were never, they, until their events were over, they never really came into the complex. But, but everybody else was right there. So you, you stuck with your.

own group. Even when you went for breakfast, you never sat with another hockey player, even if he was your best friend from another country. You just didn't do that stuff. And I think the players really enjoy that experience. So to me, the thing that the players love the most is being a small part of something bigger. And I think that's the great reward you get for being Olympian, is you get to be that one piece that can help you win a medal. And I think the players really respect and appreciate that opportunity. The other thing for me is the number one lesson we learned in all of the Olympics was don't sit on chemistry.

And we learned that lesson early. And what I mean by that is that you write down your lines, you think you've got the combinations that work, and if it doesn't work, you should change right away. So I'm curious to see when we get all our talent together, what we start with in day one, how much it changes by the end of the tournament because in our venue in the times we were there we never found chemistry until at least three games into the tournament sometimes even later and it was a really good lesson for us if you don't see it click right away you got to change right away and and i think that we found that so i'm curious to see how we start and then how it ends up

It's so funny you say that because, you know, I can't be a hypocrite. I like the idea of bringing Chris Kunitz to that team in Sochi because he had such a chemistry with Sidney Pawsby in the NHL. But to your point, one of those things that you can't predict at this level I find from the Olympics I've been to is how it looks once you get this level. And again, I'm not picking on Chris Kunis who had a terrific career, but one game in, it felt like you knew that wasn't going to work. Right, at that level. Well, I think what happens is the game is such a high. When you get that many good players playing at the same time, the game is so high intellectually wise,

you've got to really be able to think quick on the ice. And I think that you don't know when the game is like, you blink and the games are over. The tempo is so high. There's long stretches without whistles. The tempo is at such a rich level. that you find out who can think with each other and who can think at a really, really high level and react to very quickly at that level. And you don't know that until you put people together.

But you've got to make your changes right away because if you sit on it, it's, it's, I found, of all the combinations that we put together, what we thought would work never did. and we were able to, we changed right away, and then we found combinations, especially in the last two Olympics in 10 and 14, we found combinations that worked really, really well. Well, it always seems like Bergeron and Crosby find each other in these tournaments, that's for sure. Yeah, and they see the game,

they see the game big picture-wise differently than a lot of people, and that's why they work so well together. Ken, we're going to let you go in a moment. But Pierre and I were talking just before we came, on and I didn't know the answer to it, do you have three gold medals? Do you have, do you physically have gold medals? What happens to the coaching staff? I ask and I do not know the answer that question. The coaching staff, no coach your manager gets a gold medal. It's for athletes only. In any event, whether you're coaching half pipe or whether you're coaching moguls or

whether you're coaching downhill. No coach gets a gold medal. But we found a way to have our own gold medals that were perfectly made, that copied what were there so that we had something that we could honor with. And we got our own gold medals. But no coach gets a gold medalist for athletes only. Great question by Scottie. I did not know that.

And as I reminded Scotty and at the time, I was still part of the selection committee, I thought it was a terrific choice when you were inducted in the order of hockey in Canada, Ken, which I know meant a lot to you, given all your international experience with hockey Canada. So now I guess we still await the next honor, right? The big one? Got to be at some point. Come on.

Well, to me, I just, when I look at the coaches now, the stress level on these 56 games schedule, and the stress level on some of these coaches and the way they look like they're out, even though they're wearing masks, I'm glad I'm out. Because it looks like a really stressful job right now, the way guys are, you know, the proximity of games and what's going on schedule-wise and the importance of every series you play in. It looks like it's a really stressful job right now.

Well, and I think I've tweeted this a couple weeks ago, but the glare of the All-Canadian Division to me, it's great for fans, but there's an intention. to the all-Canadian matchup every single night, that it feels like the Canadian teams are playing playoff hockey from the get-go to me. Like that, that even though it's still just two points in the standings, it doesn't feel that way when I'm watching these matchups right now, that's for sure. No, and you know the other thing is that you end up, you end up, like I find myself, I barely glance at other hockey other than if I've got friends coaching other teams, I'll watch their team. But I watch beginning to end every game that's played in Canada. And you're watching every minute of you.

You're analyzing the team. You're the way you coach, it'll be really interesting to see the way coaches get built here because one of the things that we learned that Ralph Krueger was really a help for us. Like he really, because you need someone on your staff that knows how the European coaches coach. And Ralph was, Ralph was really good for us because he knew those coaches. He knew how the teams played. He pre-scouted for us. and that was a real helpful we felt like we had a leg up on everybody

because he knew all their tendencies on how they rotated their players so it was a big big leg up for us that's a great point we nicknamed them in Sochi Dr. BigEyes for the cane coaching stuff well it was it was funny because it was because we

were right out of the gate playing Euro teams and it was a real help for us because he really had his and he stayed in it he stayed there eight or nine days by himself before we even got there. Ken, you were mentioning though, that you were just,

and you've been consumed by the Canadian hockey and just watching all of those, all those games every night. Yeah, and I find that, you know, it's really intensified the way I look at games. Like I used to, I used to look at it like a fan,

and now I look at it like, okay, how do we find a way to beat these teams? you know, obviously Montreal is playing the best five-on-five of anybody in Canada right now. And then you're looking at ways, probe and ways you can help see if you can find a way to beat these teams. Because to me, the six-team playoff run is going to go down to the last week of the schedule. I really believe that. And it's, you know, it's going to be a battle right to the end to get a playoff spot.

And there's going to be two really good teams that don't get in. And that's going to be heartbreaking. And so you're trying to help every which way you can. You know, and I throw ideas it can and things that I think can help our organization and that because it seems to me this feels like the old watching TV back in the 60s, late 50s, because this feels like it's the super six teams left in the league. And that's your major focus right now. Listen, Ken, it's been outstanding to have you come and join us, and we could do this all day. And I'm sure between now and Beijing, we'll have lots of chats. But thank you so much for taking the time.

It's always a treat to catch up with you. And even if we aren't shoulder to shoulder, as we once were, it feels like we were. So thank you so much for coming and sharing your insight and your... I would appreciate. Thanks for having me come on, guys. And Ken, can I just say on behalf of the PHWA, all the writers across, and covered the NHL, we miss you filling the notebooks. I can tell you that.

Going back to one of the greatest lines that you ever delivered, I was in St. Louis covering a playoff series between the sharks and the blues, I think, and Ken was coaching the blues, and Roman Polack went to town on someone, and you said, don't open the Roman Polack door. He was quite a character. He was quite a character. So good. All right.

Good stuff. Thank you again. Thanks very much, guys. Take care. Pierre, I do think back to the year I spent with the Dallas Stars and 17 and 18, and there were a lot of times when we were on the road and on an off day if they weren't skating and we'd be in the hotel or whatever. And everyone's a while, Hitch had just said he would unleash the coaching staff. He'd let them go and do their work. And man, they worked hard, that group that was with Hitch that year.

But he's like, all right, Bernsey, get over here. We've got some hockey to talk about it. And we would sit down and have a cup of coffee. And we just, we would, we literally would try and solve all the, I don't know what global problems, but certainly hockey issues that were going on around the NHL. And it was, I can't tell you how much I learned that season being around Hitch and his staff every day and how hard they worked and how they approach things. And yeah, I feel I'm a much smarter person having spent that time with Ken Hitchcock. Yeah.

And, you know, as I said there with the role. and Bollack quote, I mean, just a way to underline how, you know, all the NHL teams that he coached and the international tournaments he was part of. He understood, and this is a very selfish thing for us, you know, our point of view, but he understood the media's job. And he was so kind with his time and really listening to your question and trying to understand your story angle. And, you know, you know, you know the guy that I think does that the best right now, and

There's a lot of good coaches to do this. But I think the best is Paul Marines in Winnipeg. His answers are so thoughtful. And again, there's a bunch of guys I could put in that category. But if I have to crown the new hitch, the new hitch guy with the relationship with the media, I would say it's Paul Murray's. Yeah. Honestly, it didn't matter whether we were at home in Dallas, we were on the road.

And there was always a bigger crowd for the morning Hitchcock availability. It was, you know, and a lot of it was for, you know, veteran reporters who knew Hitch for, you know, whether it was in St. Louis or Columbus or whatever, Philadelphia, people just wanted to come in and hang out and chat. Like, it was, it was always a ton of fun. So I don't, I want to follow up on a couple of Olympic things. As you alluded to it, as we're taping this, Hockey Canada, releasing its management team, as you've been reporting for a long time, Doug Armstrong reprising his role as GM of Team Canada from the World Cup of Hockey. I remember talking to Doug at the draft.

It was after he'd been announced, so whenever that was. And we were talking about Team Canada, and he said, you know the one thing about this job, you only get. one chance to screw it up, right? Like, that's the way Canada is. If you make a mess of it, you only get one chance. And obviously, Team Canada winning the World Cup of hockey in 2016 and Doug Armstrong is back. What do you, what do you like about this, this makeup of the team? Because you do have Ken Holland, a veteran of these kinds of team building experiences, but you have some guys who are maybe not as, you know, don't have that kind of resume. And I'm especially curious about a guy like Roberto Luongo, who isn't so far removed from playing as an executive role with the Florida Panthers.

Why do you think it's important to have a guy like that, and why do you like Roberto Luongo being in the mix for Team Canada? Yeah, and I asked Doug Armstrong about that, and when he said about adding Luongo that it's clearly not just a goalie thing, it's that Luongo played in three Olympics and has just come off the ice a couple years ago. Fresh perspective in terms of the player's view of things and being able to you know, to help the Canadian Olympic player, especially the first time Olympians get ready for the adjustment that it is to play in that, you know, bubble and with the pressure of what it means to be a team Canada player. So I think it means a lot to Doug Armstrong to have added a bit more long ago to this mix. And he does know. I mean, he's, you know, he was the young

backup to Marty Bruderno, 6 in Torino in a disappointing Olympics where he knew he wasn't going to be the starter, but he got a bit of a taste. I think he was the young, you know, He played in two games. And then in 2010, it was more, ooh, is it going to be Breder or Luongo, right? And the rather famous decision by Mike Babcock made me through that tournament after losing to the U.S. and Ron Robin to yank the winningest goal in NHL history and put in Luongo, and Lulango playing on his home ice in terms of the Vancouver Connecto at the time and helping deliver bold.

So the pressure that came with that. And then going to Sochi, where, again, the Canadian team hadn't really tipped its hand as to whether it would be the veteran Luongo or the young emerging Kerry Price at the time. But, of course, I'd be found out later. I think they had decided pretty early on. They would rule of Price and, you know, the role of Longo being supportive of that of Kerry Price. So he's a great ad, I think, to this management team from all the... all the international experience and he's lived in all kinds of different situations. You know, having talked to Armstrong here this week about what Beijing will look like,

I mean, as he said, this is a bit of a changing of the guard. There'll be a lot of new faces on this Canadian Olympic team because of the eight years between Olympics. And, you know, on my team this week, I only had four holdovers from Sochi. You know, I had Crosby, Bergeron, Kerry Price, and Alex Petrancho. that was it from the Sochi Olympic team. And certainly Bergeron's no lock at this point, even his age. Now, we may

have some guys like Shea Weber or you know, Shee Weber, maybe. Drew Dowdy? Yeah. Oh, sorry, I did have Jew Dowdy. I forgot that, too, from the Sochi. But, you know, there's going to be a lot of fresh blood. I mean, obviously, McDavid McKinnon, complete locks,

but I think Mark Schifley has a chance, Barzal, Cal McCar, there's so many young faces that are going to be part of this. But with that comes a new identity. This isn't the Crosby teams, as I call them, right, from 2010 to 2014 to 2016 World Cup. Sort of the Crosby era teams, this is going to be a new mix. And in that, can you find that same chemistry that those other Canadian teams had developed? Oh, I can't, you know, we're going to talk a lot about it.

Before I close this, and we're going to get some questions from our readers, and then we're going to wrap things up. But when you think about it being a year out, I mean, is it too early to start lobbying our bosses at the Athletic that you and I need to be in Beijing to cover that? Is it too early? Can we start? It would be great.

You and I love those events. And they are my greatest memories, really, in this business. It's covered all those Olympic games. The hockey is unreal, and nothing matters more, quite frankly. Yeah, and honestly, like I'm so excited, and you and I sort of learned this in our discussion with some of the, well, both you and I were speaking with Renee Fasel, but the fact that it is NHL ICE, honestly, I just, I am so pumped because I think the hockey is infinitely better. And in this opportunity, really to see a group of young players that, you know, missed an opportunity when the NHL took a pass on South Korean in 2018, to me it just ramps up the anticipation. A year seems like a long time,

but in Olympic prep time, it's really not all that long, right? There's a lot of work to be done, but we're going to have a lot of Olympic news, and we saw that with Team Canada today, but there's going to be a lot of news with coaching staff, management teams, long lists, summer orientation camps.

And it's great you mentioned that, because that's part of my column that's post-selling it, like now, as it turns out, Armstrong revealed that, you know, this management group with Holland and Sweeney and Longo and Ron Francis and Scott Salmon from like Canada, they've actually been at it since last summer. They just waited until now to announce a group, but they had their first call before the NHL playoff bubble last summer, and they've had regular calls ever since. So they've been added certainly before today.

All right. Let's take a couple questions before we wrap up here. This comes from J. Habs. I wonder where his allegiance lies. And it goes back to something that the Hitch sort of alluded to as well, the North Division. Do you think that Canadian teams have an advantage or disadvantage by not playing other divisions heading towards the playoffs? It seems like all the Canadian teams play a different style of game than maybe a team like Boston, Carolina, or St. Louis. What do you think of that? And I guess it extends to all the teams, but it specifically for the Canadian teams, is it harder or is it better or worse to be playing only against those Canadian teams, do you think, once you get down to the playoff level? So I think at the end of the day, and I guess we'll have to ask these teams come May, but I think it's a disadvantage because I'm seeing guys taking their heads off every night in the All of the Indivision.

It is playoff intensity. And while we love it as journalists and as fans, and I know the players love it right now, for sure. That's a grind. And I think there's usually a natural tempo to a regular season where you work for a game up and you get ready for the playoffs. The Canadian Division is an all-out war already right out of the gates. And again, we love it, but I fear a bit for the wearing down physically and mentally of what that's going to be like an entire year, to be honest. I'm with you. I am fascinated to see how it all plays out. Honestly, I can't wait for the, you know, those division. rounds, right? It's going to be tremendous. This one comes from Cluck Fee, and he wonders,

I assume it's a he, but I don't know that. Cluck Fee, he or she, would like to know what is the next step for the Nashville Predators? Sort of an underwhelming start to the season, an older team. Do you see a rebuild on the horizon for the Predators? And that's a, we sort of, it's a kind of same kind of question we raised with Pittsburgh. penguins. Do you see a same kind of dilemma coming for David Poyle and the management group in Nashville? Yeah, and I think, you know, the question always is whether you go in a full rebuild or a soft transition. It feels like the Predators had announced a soft transition last year,

right, if you look at David Poyle's comments at the end of the year. Right. And what's tough for a team like Nashville, in some degree San Jose, you know, really good organizations, you do things right, they're knocking at the door forever, is that when you go into these transitions, you go into it without being able to say, at least you want a cut. And so you can say all you want about how long it's taken for LA in Chicago to turn things back around.

They can look at their trophy case and say, well, did you enjoy that? And so that's hard. And the reality is not every team gets to win. And so, you know, and I think it's also rather personal for David Coyle at his age, as we know, in the regular season, the winning us GM in the history of the league, and wins in the regular season, but he's missing the one big trophy. And I think that has fueled a lot of his desire, obviously, to hang in there with the predators

and get his team over the hump. But so, you know, to me, if you ask me what the next big decision is, is how long does he want to do this? And what's the eventual transition plan even at that level? So that's kind of unanswered by now. Yeah, no, I think you're right on there. All right, final one from Bodog. Who you got in the Super Bowl? I got Kansas City in my heart because I don't think Tom Brady needs another Super Bowl ring.

But I don't know. I've slept on Tampa all year, man. I bet against them a ton of times and I've regretted it every time. I thought the Saints were going to beat them. never mind that I thought Green Bay would meet them but I'm going with the Chiefs and it's not just like I don't want Tom Brady to win again I also

I think the Chiefs play an aesthetically pleasing style of the game they're fun to watch for what you want football to be on anything anyway I'm going to ride with them all I will not be answering this question because I'm actually in first place in the media football pool and I believe I'm in last So there you go.

That's how good my picks have been. I don't want to divulge. I've already getting the questions from the rest of my colleague, our caller. All right. We're just about done here. But as always, you should be following the athletic hockey show in its various forms. And of course, Ian Mendez, Haley Salvean and Sean McIndoe,

Monday and Thursday at the Athletic. You should always catch up with that. Tom Dundon, owner of the Carolina Hurricane, spends the full 60 with Craig Custins this week at The Athletic. That's a long time, eh? The full 60, that's a long time. By the way, I snuck in a question to Tom Dundan through Craig Cussons in that podcast, so check that out. Oh, yeah.

All right, good for you. Look at you. A little bit of cross-pollination there. Good for you. And former wild forward, Kyle Brodsiac, is Mike Russo's guest on Straight from the Source this week at the Athletic. You should check out our comments section for each podcast episode at the athletic app. and rate and subscribe to the Athletic Hockey Show on Apple.

If you aren't already a subscriber, well, shame on you. But anyway, you can rectify that by going to theathletic.com slash hockey show and receive a subscription for just $3.99 per month. Yeah, that was a ton of fun and good work by you today. Well done, my friend. Right on, right on.