The Athletic Hockey Show - Kris Letang hits 1,000 games played, but is he a Hall of Famer?, Calgary Flames-Winnipeg Jets game of the week Wednesday night, a potential LA Kings-Arizona Coyotes game in Australia, and more

Episode Date: April 3, 2023

On today’s Monday edition of The Athletic Hockey Show, Ian and Julian discuss Kris Letang hitting the 1,000 games played milestone and whether he’s a Hall of Famer or not, a potential LA Kings-Arizona Coyotes regular season game in Australia, the Calgary Flames with a legitimate chance to jump into the final Western Conference playoff spot on Wednesday night at the Winnipeg Jets.Plus, the guys close out the show answering listener questions and comments, handing out the Jack Adams Winner of the Week award, and playing a round of Multiple Choice Madness. Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowGet a 1-year subscription to The Athletic for just $1 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshowLinkedIn Jobs helps you find the qualified candidates you want to talk to, faster. Post your job for free at http://LinkedIn.com/nhlshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. Welcome to your Monday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. It's Ian Mendez and Julian McKenzie with you for the next hour or so. Hey, Julian, you see how I did that? I tried to actually speak a lower in the intro. Remember last week when you're like, I just picked up on you when you're like, I just picked up on that. Oh, my God.

Yeah. Welcome to the Monday edition. Yeah, exactly. Great callback. That is a very subtle. call back for those who paid attention to last week's episode. There you go. But hey, though, we are going to have a lot of fun to kick off your weekend hockey. Some big games to circle on the calendar this week.

Talk about some of the games that happened on the weekend. Chris LaTang hitting a big mile. So we got lots of listener feedback. There's a ton of things to get to. I do want to pump something that you did. Speaking of the weekend, I thought this was really cool. I want to point this out for regular listeners to the pod. You may have realized, hey, got a little bit of a bonus episode on

Saturday and you did the fighting. And if you've been reading the athletic all week, you've seen, we've had a week-long series on fighting, kind of its role in the game and how it's evolved. And then you guys did a pod that dropped on Saturday. And so for anybody who didn't listen to it, I want to give you the sales pitch right now. Tell people why they need to listen to that pod, Julie.

Look, if you want to get a sense of how us at the athletic feel about fighting, and it's evolution, it's placed in the sport. It is a worthwhile conversation. And I'm moderating the conversation, but Robert Rossi, Sean McIndoo is in it as well. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

I got to stop you right there. Is that too long? Did you just say Robert Rossi? Yeah, I kind of full name. Have I been saying it wrong? I thought I always thought it was just Rob Rossi. I guess it's Rob Rossi is just, I've seen the name Robert Rossi.

I've just been using Robert, but double, I call him double R. I've never heard of called Robert Rossi. Maybe I think maybe I'm doing it wrong anyway. No, I think I'm doing it wrong because it's just Rob Rossi. I was just being more formal, I guess. But yeah, like Kevin Kurz is also on this too. Basically, almost everyone who participated in our series and wrote a piece for our fighting series, We just break down our stories in some of the different subjects that we've spoken

that we've written about. For those who read my story, I read a piece on HockeyFights.com and how it manages to survive and even thrive in an age where we're starting to see junior leagues feel back on fighting and NHLers are worried about its future as well. And they're doing everything they can to keep it in the game. So yeah, if you have about an hour and you're interested in hearing our opinions on its place in the sport. It's worth your time. It came out on Saturday. So if you just go back into your feed a couple days, you'll be able to find it. It's worth your time. And be sure to check out

all of our stories from our series. Like I said, just I'm there. Dan Robson, Max Bultman, came together on a story too. Sean McIndoo's done a lot of great work as well. He dropped a story actually today on fighting as well too. So it's worth your time. So be sure to check out all those stories. And the pot. So yeah, It's been really interesting watching, reading the comment sections. I thought Sean's piece today, like you said, really great. Just kind of looking at kind of trying to reconcile where we were at the 80s and what have we lost.

Anyway, it's been some really cool stuff. And I think everybody that was part of that project should be pretty proud of that. Because it's a great debate. Like I think we have this internal, we have to almost do this reconciliation. hockey fans, especially, you know, people like kind of in my age, Julian, like we grew up in the 90s when late 80s, 90s when fighting was so rampant. We have to reconcile the fact that we loved it so much, right, as fans. And we didn't necessarily think about the toll that was being paid.

But hey, right, this has been just some, this has been one of my favorite series that I've read on the athletic with a theme. So anyway, you guys just knocked that thing out of the park. It was really good, really well done. Thank you. That means a lot, man. But yeah, there is a debate with fighting and how on one hand it has, it could result in these long-term effects mentally or physically, while also just straight up just being a dangerous thing, while there is also an inherent entertainment value that comes with it. Think about some of the biggest rivalries in the sports history or even just ones you've grown up watching. whether you, Ian or anyone listening to this podcast, nine times out of ten, almost like 99% of the time, some fight got involved, some bit of physicality is part of that.

Like, it's very rare for us to describe rivalries now that don't have some kind of fight or some kind of physical element to it as some kind of foundation. Like even if we think of the Battle of Alberta, I'm sure you could go back into the 80s. and find some kind of moment of fisticuffs between those sides, maybe less so now, even if you go back a few years. Like, it's just, it's part of a foundation for rivalries. And arguably when the sport was, you know, some people are saying, like, maybe at its most entertaining in some respects. Like, I know that we're at a point where we're seeing more and more goals than probably

we've ever seen, or maybe not since the early 90s before the clutching grab air really took hold, pun intended. But like, yeah, I think when you think of like Detroit, Colorado, for example, oh, like some of the best players in the game's history on both sides of that, all I think of is like Patrick Waugh, like getting into scraps or Dino Cicerole and Clodum, you're getting at it. Like, there's a, there's a weird fighting and physical element to the game that while we do cringe when we see it sometimes, there's an entertain.

I mean, there's, some people still find it as entertainment as fine it as entertainment. And it is a debate thinking about it and trying to consider the long term health for players while also realizing that, you know, as long as players are going to get mad with each other, the way that they are, is there really ever going to be a way to get rid of it? Is it something that has to be, has to be getting rid of? Or that's not English? Is that something that has to be disposed of from the league? Like, I don't know. There's a lot of questions. Yeah.

Oh, man. Detroit, Colorado, like, there's a lot of people who they, if you grew up based on your age, like that's one of your core memories of being a hockey fan in the late 90, Detroit, Colorado. And it's interesting because, look, I started covering this sport in the early 2000s when Ottawa and Toronto had a wonderful rivalry. Like, it was fierce. There were fights.

There were all sorts of things. but now I'm asking, let me ask you this question. Like in the post, I get, we'll call it the salary cap era, right? So since 2005, has there been any rivalry in the NHL that has been like sort of physicality and fighting has been at its core? Like Detroit, Colorado, it was at its core. Ottawa, Toronto, I think it was at its core. There was a legitimate, natural, true hatred.

If we think about the best rivalries of the post in the caper, what do you think of? You think of Washington, Pittsburgh, right? I mean, I can understand why you would think that. But Washington, Pittsburgh was a good rivalry. They met a bunch of times in the playoffs, the Pacific. But is, and maybe Washington and Pittsburgh fans can help us out on this. Were there like memorable fights in that?

That's what, that's my question. That's why I was hesitant on that. Yeah, because I don't think so. Because when I think of Washington, Pittsburgh, I don't, I almost don't even, I sometimes don't even think of it as like, or no, that's wrong to say that I don't think of it as like team by team because they've had those playoff series against each other. But the reason why I think it's a rivalry in itself is because of the Sydney Crosby versus Alexander of Etchen element to it. And then you have the supporting characters that come into it. But yeah, like I don't think of fights necessarily between those teams. I think of like Pittsburgh and Philadelphia like 11 years ago when they played against each other in a playoff series.

And that was just nothing but goals and fights, for example. Montreal, Boston just ingrained hate between both of those cities. Not necessarily a fight, but I mean, there was some some rough stuff after. But when Max Patoretti was driven into a stanchion by Sidenno Chara, like that ended up being, that ended up being a point of contention. commissera kind of fight, I think, with Milan Luchich. That essentially busted up his shoulder. His shoulder was never the same sense. Never the same since.

Like, that's something I could point to. Yeah, like, I just think in terms of rivalries now, in terms of, like, fights that have happened, I mean, do you want to bring up Rangers capitals and the massive Tom Wulson blow up from a few years ago? Yeah, that, you know what? That's a good one. Like, I'm just having a heart, like, listeners help us out.

Listeners can help us out. Salary cap era. What is the rivalry that has been the most physically intense and involved a lot of fighting? Because I don't think it's Washington, Pittsburgh. I don't think it's Toronto, Boston. I don't think, like, L.A. and Chicago had a really good thing going there for three or four years in the Western Conference. I don't think that that was predicated on fighting. Vancouver and Chicago kind of had a little thing going on there for a little bit.

I don't think that that was, you know, so anyway, people could happen. Hamilton and Calgary are back in Vogue now, but like in recent days, like, well, they had the big brawl, right, with Mike Smith and everybody, was that two years ago? Maybe. Okay. Maybe, right? I mean, like, you'd have to go, I think you'd have to go further back to find more physicality, I think, between both cities, I find.

But listeners will help us out. Listeners will always help us out on this stuff. So, yeah, help us out. You know what? We're talking about the penguins here a little bit. I need your help on something. Okay? I need your help, Julia.

Sure. Chris LaTang, or I guess as you would call him, Christopher Lettang. That's the Robert Rossi joke coming back. That's a, that's too quickable callback. You know what's funny? I thought you were going to do the French joke because depending on the Quebec, people would say Christopher Laton. Yeah, that's right.

Which I don't know how I feel about that because I've grown up saying Chris LaTang. So like I don't know. I say LaTang, I guess, but I don't know. Your name is your name. So Le Tang played his thousandth game on the weekend. And I think when a player gets to a thousand games, it's an amazing milestone, but it also offers us an opportunity

to kind of like just reflect back on that player's career. And here's the question I have for you. Like, help me out because he seems like a real borderline, like I'm right, I'm on the middle on this. I'm a fence sitter here. I want to be nudged in one direction or the other.

Is Chris LaTang a Hall of Fame? Oof. For me, what constitutes a Hall of Famer you have to be a player who is among the best at their position for a sustained period of time. And I mean, I want to say that there has, yeah, I mean, there has been a time where he's been considered among like the top five or top 10 best defensive in the league, especially on the offensive side. I mean, the Stanley Cups also at have to be considered when it comes to his resume. I guess just, you know, the fact that his trophy cupboard is not necessarily all that plentiful beyond that. Like the two cups, but he was only a Norris finalist once.

Was that the lockout year? And it was the lockout year, yes. Yeah. Where Subband won it. Yeah. We're P.K. Suban won it. Yes, that is very true. but the only other years where there's a year where you finished fourth in voting.

There's another year you finished sixth in voting. Actually, two years where you finished sixth in voting for the Norris, which is still good. But like, I guess if you're going off of, you know, individual accolades, I can understand why you'd say it's a, I mean, it's a bit lacking there. Let's let's be real. And in terms of international success, you played for Canada at the World Juniors. I don't know why I play at the World Junior Championships. I mean, I think the fact that Pittsburgh making the playoffs every year were kind of take them out of the world hockey championships.

But how many times if you thought, okay, Chris LaTang is a lock to make the Olympic team? Yeah, this is like, like, yeah, it hasn't happened. He's never played for Canada at the Olympic level, which I think also could also help for one's Hall of Fame case too. I think he's a good defenseman. Great defenseman, if you want to say. Probably one of the greatest defensemen the Penguins have ever had,

no doubt about that. I would need a bit more time to consider his Hall of Fame candidacy. For me, I need, I think he needs more hardware to make a really solid case, like individual hardware, to really make the case that he should be a Hall of Fame player. I'm not saying no. I just need to think about this a little bit more. So I think you're in the exact same spot as me where you're like, I don't feel it strongly in either direction, right?

Like you're kind of like, hey, you know, I could be convinced that Le Chang is a Hall of Famer, but like you said, only one season where he was a Norris finalist. Pittsburgh won three Stanley Cups, but, you know, he wasn't there. I don't know why I said two. No, no, no, no. I'll tell you why you said two. because he didn't play in 2017 when they won the cup.

They won a cup without him. So maybe, you know, but I don't think that's necessarily a strike against him. Look, the Avalanche won their Stanley Cup in 2001 without Peter Fordsburg in the last two rounds. Nobody holds that against him. So I don't think that that's necessarily a fair argument to, like, I think he's an elite defenseman. Yes. Is he in the same category as Shea Weber, where you're like, you know, damn, Shea Weber was really good, doesn't have the individual hardware per se, never

want to Norris. Like, like, and I think I would be on the fence. There's like two different defensemen, though. Like, like, Shane Weber, fine, like, he doesn't have, he doesn't have a Stanley Cup to his name. But, like, Shea Weber is known as, like, one of the most fearsome defensemen you can ever go up against. one of the hardest shots in the league

played on Team Canada and won. This is a guy who his reputation precedes him and I mean a lot of people feel he's going to make it to the Hall of Fame off of that anyway. Four-time All-Star is a nominee for a Norris, I want to say

yeah, okay, one, no, three times. Like that's, like that, even if you didn't win, Like you finish second indoors voting twice You finish third indoors voting once like you're in that conversation That's a lot more than Chris LaTang I think that that helps like I don't think I don't think there's ever been a time like Like we have no problem saying that there was a time when Shea Weber was among the league's best defensemen And I guess you could say that about Chris LaTang too

But where are you ranking them both? I think you're probably ranking Shea Weber a little bit above Chris LaTang in some respects because of the offensive ability and the physicality as well. Yeah. Look, look, I think it's interesting.

He played a thousandth game. I think just the fact that this guy played a thousand games, given the health stuff, the injuries. It's a guy had two strokes. Truly remarkable. Like, when you talk to me about who you'd like to see, you know,

win a Masterton trophy, boy, Chris LaTang would be at the top of my list. Like he's that. Yeah. He's probably the front. I mean, I don't know if he's, he might be the frontrunner now. It's a great career.

I just, I wonder. And I'm open to it. I'd love to hear from penguins fans, non-Penguins fans. Do you think Chris LaTang's a Hall of Famer? You know, hit us up. Hit us up on Twitter.

Hit us up on the comment section. Julian and I, if you just listen to us, we are absolutely on the fence on this one. Like, we're not coming into this with an agenda. I just, I want to be, I want somebody to persuade me one, way or the other. Like, it's like, you're a fan, you watch the office, right?

Yeah, I watch the office. Oh, no, no. Never mind, man. The way that you said it, I don't think you're going to get this reference. Okay, well, I'll brief face this by saying, I watched up until Michael Scott left. I'm, I have yet to be convinced that like Michael Scott, like episodes post Michael Scott are worth watching. I'm with you there. So maybe, okay, so maybe you'll, you'll, you'll remember this. but remember the episode and it becomes a polarizing debate. Like, is Hillary Swank hot? And they put up, this is what I think Chris LaTang is. The Chris LaTang Hall of Fame argument is the office is Hillary Swank.

You remember this episode or no? I mean, I'd have to watch again to really remember it. But like, I just find it hilarious. It's like, yeah, dude, is Hillary Swank? Like, we're going to compare that with Hillary Swank. Yes, but that's the argument is that half the people, people look at him and say he's a Hall of Famer, and the other half of people look at him and say he's not a Hall of Famer, and it's like the Office episode.

That's fair. That's where I'm getting at. That's all. Like, I think for me, I mean, I guess individual accolades aren't everything. They have to be something in this case. And while Chris LaTang has played on some great Penguins teams and he's done everything he can to ensure that those teams are successful, like it's not as if, we have, it's not as if he has a Norris trophy to his name or he found himself as a finalist in the final three for the Norris like every single year. Like he's definitely in that list among like the greatest defenseman of the last how many years.

But like I don't know whether or not his resume would put him in the Hall of Fame or the Hall of Very Good. Yeah. And I think there's another, like, And it's the same debate, the same question. You could say, like, in the last generation or salary cap era, who's the best defenseman who didn't win a Norris trophy? And I bet you a lot of people would say Shea Weber, and a lot of people would say Chris LaTang.

Right? How many more people would say Shea Weber over Chris LaTang, though? That's what I'm wondering. I mean, then again, I mean, geez, I mean, one other thing that Chris LaTang has on, one thing that Chris LaTang definitely has on Shea Weber's, the Daily Cups. That can't be.

discount it at all. No, totally. Anyway, we'd love to hear from the listeners on that one. Hit us up on Twitter, the comment section. You can email us, the Athletic Hockey Show, at gmail.com. Let us know Chris LaTang, Hall of Famer, or not. Hey, on the weekend, I always love watching the 32 thought segment on Hockey Night in Canada. I feel like Elliot Friedman and Jeff Merrick always have one, if not multiple nuggets of info.

and the guy said something really interesting to me, and that is that we should expect the LA Kings and Arizona Coyotes Julian at some point to head down under, to play an NHL regular season game in Australia, which was like, whoa, this is, this year. Now, first of all, I need to know, has Julian ever been down under? Have you been down to Australia, New Zealand?

No, never been to Australia or New Zealand. I've been to New Zealand and not Australia. What do you think of this idea? An NHL game in Australia. I think any opportunity for the NHL to have games outside of North America is a good idea. I think the idea, I still think it's a bit weird that you're thinking of doing a game in Australia and or at least, I'm sure they try to find a way to make it work. But like, Nathan Walker should be involved in this somehow. He's the one player in the NHL.

Shell, who is from Australia. Like, he should be involved in this game. I don't know if it gets to a point when either if it's, if it's the Kings and the Coyotes, if all of a sudden Nathan Walker ends up on one of those two teams. But, like, you can't have a game like that and not have Nathan Walker involved as far as I'm concerned. That's the only guy, though, right?

Like, actually, he's the only player, but even that, like, that should just make it easy. It's just like, boom, that's just an easy sell for fans. Like you say, hey, there's a guy who is in the league who is from Australia. Like, that's an easy selling point. I got the other selling point here. Okay. And you probably, I'm going to give you and a good chunk of the listeners a little piece of

information that I bet you didn't know. There is one member of the athletic family who covers the NHL and it regularly appears on the athletic hockey show podcast who was born in. in Australia. Ooh, I want to guess this. Ooh, who would it be? Can I have a hint? I also host a podcast with him

on the athletic hockey show. No way. He was born there? Sean McIndoo, down goes brown. I can already see it. We send him down. Who else would be better to cover this,

have some fun. I already thought of the headline just now. Down goes brown, goes down under. Right? You send him down. He covers the series. He has some fun. Down goes brown, goes down.

It's kind of kind of jump. It's kind of jumbled a little bit. I'm saying it. It's kind of, you can do better than that. Down goes brown under? No, anyway.

Well, it's a little workshopping. We'll workshop it. We'll workshop it. I had no idea to do is from Australia. We got to send him to Australia. This is where he was born. The NHL's going there.

He's a great writer. He could probably capture the quirking. of the whole thing, send him. Let him eat a Vegemite sandwich while he's there. That's the only food that I think I know from Australia, right?

Vegemite. Yeah. Yeah. See, you're probably too young. You're probably too young. Well, not probably. You are too young for this. But in like the late 1980s,

this is when I was like, you know, 11 years old, 12 years old. Late 80s, there was this bizarre fascination in America and North America with Australian culture where like the Crocodile

Dundee movies came out and like you know music from Australia was kind of making its way up here. Really it was like this weird little five year obsession with with Australian culture. So like that one song

I come from a land down under like that's that was that was in that time that was in that rain. Very certain that's in that time frame. Yeah. In fact, I think the phrase Vegemite Sandwich is in that song, isn't it? Is in that song? Yes.

Yes, it is. Yeah. Yes, it is. They're going to send, it sounds like L.A. and Arizona are going to go down. Now, here's what I would love to know. So what's the time different? 17 hours or whatever it is? Ballpark.

Something like that. Like a whole, like, day. Like if you looked it up right now. I think after. Is it 17-hour day? If you looked up, what's the time in Melbourne right now or Sydney? What's the time difference? Well, I guess it really depends on where you're at.

I think right now it's Tuesday. It's 2 a.m. It's 2 a.m. Australian Eastern Standard Time. But also that depends on where in Australia. So it's a 14-hour month. If you're in Perth, it's midnight. If you're in Al-Aid, it's 1.30. if you're in Kingston, it's 3 a.

Yeah. So we're looking at but from the Eastern standard time, we're looking at like a 14 hour roughly time difference, right? Ballpark. So about 16, I guess, from my vantage point too.

From, yeah. How, like, let's say they go down, the Kings and the coyotes go down to play. Now, how much advanced time would you need them to be there to get their body clocks? Kind of, like,

because, you know, it's a challenge when teams go even go to Europe. But that's only five hours. This is going to be like, or do you go over there and you basically try and stay on the same clock, so to speak, and play a game? I don't know, I just, I worry about the logistics

of a 14-hour time difference, and then when you come back home, like, how much time do you need, right? I like the idea. I wonder, like, how much does it matter to teams along, the west because in this case you're if you're going to have Los Angeles and in Australia it's still

going to be a lengthy flight but I imagine it'll be a lot less compared to like a Montreal Ottawa game in Australia yeah yeah like along the eastern seaboard like if you're along the west coast and you're flying up that way

I mean you still have to deal with the insane time difference to a certain degree but like not to a certain degree you would have to but like maybe the the shortness and flight helps a bit, but I'm not an expert at that. It's a, oh,

geez, it's 15 hours and nine minutes from L.A. to Sydney, Australia. I thought it was shorter. Yeah. To fly. Oftentimes you got to stop and refuel and like,

like when I flew to New Zealand, I flew Vancouver. I think we had to stop in Fiji to refuel and then continue on. So like, it's, it's just, like, I love the idea,

though. I love the idea of let's, let's grow the game. Let's go play in some, some fun place. I just, I worry about the logistics of this one. Like, unless you can marry it with your, you know how every team gets a week off in February? I thought about that. But the thing, and that's what I was worried about too. Like you can't, like, I don't think you could get away with just having it around like a week off. Because like those players want those, want that week off.

Like it's mandated in the NHLPA and all that. Like in the CBA. Like, it's there. Like, they have to have that time off and like having it around the time when like, you know, they need to fly all the way to Australia. Like, I don't know how, I don't know if players are going to go for that. They'd have to, I don't know if you do it as like a preseason thing or if you do it as your early season thing and then your start your season's a bit delayed, I guess. Like it can't be like, I don't think it would make sense as a, as something smack in the middle of the season.

And I don't know if you could do that at the end of the year either. It almost has to be like the start of the season and like maybe the two teams that play get like a week off and then somewhere along the line in their schedule like you have to kind of add some of those extra games in and maybe they end later than everyone else. But like I don't know, you have to account for that. Julian, you just unlocked a memory in my brain when you were speaking. I did. Yeah. So all of a sudden I now have a memory. the Vancouver Canucks and the Anaheim ducks

played regular season games in Japan. Okay? I mean, in the 90s, they played it in Japan and they started the regular season there. It was the opening game of the season. As soon as you said that, I was like, you know what? I think this has happened before. And you know what memory I have burned in my,

seared in my brain, you're going to laugh at this. Tell me. But there's a, there's, there was footage of former Vancouver Canucks defenseman, Dave, I want to say it was Dave Babbage. And he's like wearing a kimono. And he's walking around. I know. It's weird.

I feel like I have this weird image of Dave Babbage in a kimono. And, uh, I think it was the season in which the NHL ended up going to Nagano. So this, it would have been the start of 97, 98. So I think October of 1997. And the ducks had Paul Corrie. and the NHL really wanted to sort of, you know, get a little bit of a footprint in Asia. And the Canucks and the ducks started.

And I'd be curious, if we went back and looked at the 97-98 season, Anaheim and Vancouver played each other, how long of a delay when they came back, like did they get a week off? Like, we can easily look at it. I'll look it up. But I think that's what happened.

Wow. This is so cool. This is, this is, I, I learned today that they played games in Japan. I was today years old when I learned Dave Babich, Waro Camano. I would have never, ever pictured that. But now I'm curious, just like you, like, I'm, I'm able to pull up the Canucks schedule. So, 9798. So 9798.

So the first game against, so they played the first game against, so they played the first two games, I want to say. Against Anaheim in Japan, yeah? Okay. So, Vancouver, so the first two games, so October 3rd and October 4th, back-to-back games in Japan, and then five days later, they play in Toronto. Well, sorry, they play against Toronto. And actually, Vancouver has a bunch of home games and then two games on the road in Dallas and St. Louis. But to start off their year, Vancouver has the two games in Japan against Anaheim, and then, so like October 4th is the

second and final game. And then October 4th is the second and final game. and then October 9th they play against Toronto. So I imagine after that game's over, you're flying back to Vancouver. You're at home. You're probably going to need a day or two of recovery. You're going to practice at some point in that stretch as well. And then on the 9th, you end up play. I'm also going to just look really quickly at the Mighty Ducks schedule.

The Mighty Ducks play those two games. their last game of the October October 4th against Vancouver. They play their next game October 10th against the Ottawa Senators and their next five games are at home. So, I mean, I don't know if it's the perfect

exact science, but if you're sending the Kings and the Cahooities to Australia, you're playing them I guess maybe a game, if you're going to send them there, they got to play more than one game. If you don't play two games, then they fly,

home, give them at least like a day or two to recover, and then five or six days between that last game abroad and then that next game. And both of those teams had a handful of games at home. So they weren't traveling all that much. So they're actually, I'm actually glad we're able to look at the schedule. So there is a blueprint that could work if we're going to see teams going there. You basically just have them play a few games out there, give them a couple days to rest, have them. them play a bunch of games at home so they're not traveling as much. And then you add the road games later on the schedule.

Okay. So there is a blueprint. Okay. And I just double checked because I thought it was too random of a memory, but Dave Babbage was on that Vancouver team. So there you go. Yes. I didn't have a fever dream that Dave Babbage wore a kimono. You didn't make that up. That actually happened. So there you go. There's a little bit of a blueprint there for how this could play out if that, if that Australia thing comes to, for which, for which. Now, you got a big week coming up, man.

The team that you come to Calgary Flames, who we have written off, we have said they're done, well, guess what? They have risen from the ashes. They are two points behind Winnipeg, and let's hype this sucker up. Now, they do have a game before then, so they got to take care of business.

But the Calgary Flames, Julian, will go into Wednesday night's game against Winnipeg with a legitimate chance to, get into that final wild card spot in the Western conference. It's not something we would have thought was plausible two weeks ago, three weeks ago. But here we are. Give me a sense of how people are feeling about Winnipeg Cal. It's the game of the week in the NHL.

There's nothing going to touch. Nothing's going to touch that game this week. Yep. Nothing's touching it. It's also going to be on nationally as well, the Wednesday. And look, for people who are not up to date on what's going to happen. So the Jets right now are two points up on Calgary. Calgary has a game Tuesday against Chicago, a team they have not beaten this year. But if they win that game, then the Jets and the Flames will be tied on points and that Wednesday game will loom even larger with Calgary having an opportunity to surpass Winnipeg in points if they win. This is a team that two weeks ago, the Flames, lost like that. 8-2 to the Los Angeles

Kings, and that could have easily been a time when they just put up the white flag and say, all right, the season's done. Done. They've won four in a row since. It's the first time all year, Ian, where the flames have won four games in a row. So is the

demise of Darrell Sutter, has that been greatly exaggerated? Oh, I mean, I'll tell you what. We're not having the conversation right now. Yeah, and I wonder. what his future will. I've been thinking about this too. If the flames make the playoffs, because the beginning of the year, they said the goal was to make the playoffs. If they do, I don't know

what the conversation will be like with Darrell Sutter. I have no idea. For context, yes, he does have the extension in place for the next two years. But I mean, this is a team that there are a lot of expectations were thrust upon them to do well. No one expected them to be in the position that they're in right now. And I mean, throughout 75, 80% of the season, like the team was just kind of stopping and starting, starting and stopping, starting and stopping. I think you'd have to evaluate Darrell Sutter's performance as a whole and what players are feeling in that locker room.

But also, you have to account for how far this Flames team goes if they make the playoff. offs, but they're out in the first round. What does that mean? If they get a first round upset over whoever they play, that might also have to be factored into all of this. I think with the Daryl Sutter dossier right now, it's something that's obviously being put to the side with the team winning as much as they are. And I think also, by extension to, pun intended, you have to discuss Bratcher Living's Future too. I think if anything, the winning streak and the possibility of the flames making the playoffs, it just puts a lot of those tough questions, specifically with those two men, Daryl Sutter and Bradshaw Living on a hold,

even if it's just temporarily. Man, by the way, can I just, can I just tip my hat to you for your casual drop of the word dossier? I love, like, like, I love it, the Daryl Sutter dossier. Like, I only, does everybody, when you hear the word dossier, are you thinking it's like a, like a, a, like a, a, like a, file like it's a, yeah, like a brown envelope or a file and it's like here, here's the Sutter dossier.

You go in there, there's incriminating documents. Everything you need to know. Yeah. Yeah. You know, but you know what? It would be really interesting. If, if, look, Calgary doesn't make the playoffs. It's very easy to have the conversation time to move on from Daryl Sutter.

I get that. Absolutely. And that, and that was good. And that had been going on like up until this winning street, to be clear. Yeah. But what's interesting to me, and I mean, this would be like kind of an offseason piece, I guess, for you to kind of sink your teeth into. Like, how many times, and I know it's happened, but how many times has a coach been fired after they make, after a team makes the playoffs? Like I know.

I know what's happened before. Trust me. It's happened before. But really, how many times has a coach been fired after they make the playoffs? You know, Barry Trots got fired in Long Island, but remember, they missed the playoffs last year. right it's not overly often that at the end of a season

you fire a coach that took you to the playoffs but I know what's that like it happened in Ottawa years ago Jacques Martin took them to the playoffs seven years or whatever in a row and they finally fired him after another first round exit right so you're right it might

may very well be determined if they can win around maybe we're having a completely different conversation right also another story to do not saying it's going to happen to be clear, but if the flames opt to say, okay, we're moving on from Darrell Sutter, then the Jack Adams Award curse may very well be real, I think. If you look

through... Isn't that crazy? Yeah, like, if you look through, like, minus Rod Brindamore. Like, think about, so Darrell Sutter, Rod Brindamore, Bruce Cassidy, Barry Trots, Gerard Galon, John Torto. Those are like the last few guys who have won. Aside from Darrell Sutter and Rob Brindamore, all those other guys are not coaching in the same places that they won the Jack Adams trophy with.

You know, to me, you know the most random guy to ever win the Jack Adams is Bobby, do you remember Bobby Francis? No, I don't remember Bobby Francis. I thought the most random name you're going to mention was Patrick Waugh. Patrick Waugh won it in 1314, right, with the aves, his first season? With the avalanche, yes.

Early 2000s, I apologize, I don't know the year off the top of my head. I want to say maybe 2001, 2001, 2002. Yeah, 2001, 2002, yeah. Bobby Francis, who is a name, I guarantee 75% of our listeners have never heard of, or they'd be like, now you're just making up names. Bobby Francis, Bobby Francis won the job. Jack Adams Award as coach of the year with the Arizona Coyotes, right? When they were in Phoenix, yes.

Oh, yeah, Phoenix, whatever they were Phoenix Coyotes, okay? So he wins, I feel like it should be called the Bobby Francis curse, not the, because that guy was out of the league like a couple years later. He hasn't coached again. Yeah, I have to Bobby Francis. I have no idea. What happened to him? like, like, I have no idea what happened to this guy.

Like, I just get to read. Like, what happened to him? How could you win a Jack Adams award? And then, like a segment. Like, let's Wikipedia this. Um, so he coaches in Phoenix up until the 0304 season. Huh, here's, here's actually a really funny one. Here's a fun.

Here's a, let me, let me, let me pitch you with this trivia question. Yeah. So midway through his fifth year in Arizona in 2004, Francis gets fired after a slow start, and he's replaced by an assistant coach. Guess who the assistant coach is? Guess who's the in 2004, the coach is coaching right now in the NHL. He is currently a coach in the NFL. He is currently coaching in the, so the guy who replaced. I feel like what's weird is like,

I feel like Wayne Gretzky took over for, for Bobby Francis, but clearly I'm not right on. Current coach in the NHL? In fact, that coach who replaced Bobby Francis, that gig in Phoenix, he,

wow, there is a massive gap in between that job and when he returned to coaching. A massive gap. Like, he's back coaching, but it had been a very long time. since he has coached in the national.

He's a head coach right now in the NHL. Correct. He's a head coach right now. To be clear, it's okay, to be clear, it's, it's been a while since he's been a,

since he had been a head coach. I think it got another assistant gigs. Oh my God. I think I got it. Okay. Yeah, Rick, Bonus.

Correct. Rick Bonus replaced Bobby Francis. Rick bonus. I have no recollection of that. Me either. Yeah. I don't remember what the initial thing Okay, so Bobby Francis coaches in Phoenix fired after 2004, like partway through the O4 season.

And then in 2006, in April 2006, signs a two-year deal to coach in Finland. By December of that same year, his contract is terminated. And yeah, that's the last we have heard of MS. as a coach anywhere at the professional level. Hmm. Well, yeah. What, what, but anyway, I honestly don't know. Random.

Oh, wow. Okay. Jack Adams. Okay. Actually, there's a story, uh, from 2012, which is actually a bit dark here. The headline says ex-coach Bob Francis now fighting for quality of life. So this is somebody who's not in, who's at least last week check is not in good shape. Oh, geez.

Wow. Yeah. I didn't mean for this to be an impromptu. No, no. No. Session. But like there's a story up on USA Today from Dan Bickley from 2012, where they say that his, his basically just his well-being was not doing well. He was not doing well.

He needed a walker back then. And apparently symptoms actually started appearing during his final year as coach in Arizona. And yeah, this is this is a bit of a sad story, actually. Wow. You know what? I honestly, I generally had no idea. No.

Because I always think he's the most random guy to win a Jack Adams award. Wow. And, you know, with the coyotes. And so, but I, I'm in reading this story,

it sounds like he really, and, you know, you feel bad. He's quoted here as saying, I was drinking too much. And really battled with alcoholism. You know,

for many years while he was a coach. So wow, whatever. Didn't mean for that to. I mean, I mean, yeah, I mean, that's, it's something I did not expect. It's not something that we planned for. It's something that just kind of happened as we were talking about. You brought Bobby Francis.

We did the deep dive. But, yeah, wow. I mean, I don't know what life is like for him now, but I hope he's okay in some way. But yeah, that was a. Yeah, that's a bit of eerie. All right, Julian, I'll tell you what, why don't we open up the mailbag here?

Try to end the show with a little levity, little fun here on this Monday. And look, we got a lot of comments, and we always tell people we love to hear your feedback. You can do it via email, the athletic hockey show at gmail.com. You can also do it in the comment section. All you've got to do is follow the path,

drop a comment. Trust me, we read them all, all the comments. So speaking of the comments section, Julie, we got a bunch from last week. Now, remember there was the Brooks Kepka v. Aaron Ekblad thing where Kepka had an orange traffic cone and was yelling at Kepka. And you and I were saying in Canada, we refer to those as pylons in the United States. I guess they called them traffic cones. We got a listener who writes in and says, first of all, guys, my college hockey team gave out traffic cones as a giveaway. one day. The street, the arena has been on, has been under construction for what feels like a

decade, so they had some fun with that promotion. Everybody had to name the traffic cone after their least favorite defensemen. And yes, FYI, they are traffic cones. Pilons are what are used to mark the end zone in the NFL. Pilons are square pillars. Cones are cone shaped. I can't really argue with that logic, I guess. I mean, yeah, cone is a cone. It is a cone. Cone. Cone is a shape. And we do, and we do use pylon, the way that we use pylon for those square

pylons, not to use the word again in the NFL. I guess I could understand the logic here, but I don't know, I guess we, do we have to Wikipedia pylon too? Do we have to look up the definition of that as well? If you, okay, I'm just going to do a simple search right now of the word pylon. Okay? And I'm going to go to Google Images. Welcome to the athletic hockey show. The first thing that comes up.

Where it's basically Ian and I Googling stuff like half, half the show. Okay. If you Google the word pylon, the first three things that come up are pictures of orange cones. So I think it's interchangeable. Yeah, it's absolutely interchangeable. I will agree on that. There we go. Another text or another comment in the athletic hockey show. Ian, I think you might be a minor genius with this idea of a Team USA versus Team Canada

men's and women's rivalry series. I would totally attend that series. Hey, listen, someone's going to call me a minor genius. I'm all in. I'm all in. I don't know. What do you think it would take to become a major genius, though? If that's only minor genius, what's a major genius? can if you find a way to convince the NHL and the NHLPA that they should do it. Yeah, there you go. You have to like crash one of the GM meetings or something like that or at the draft in Nashville, you know, just like talk to enough GMs, pull them.

If you get Pierre LeBruns help with that and then just see what they say. I think that's what elevates you to major genius. Okay. Well, people were just thrown around that genius tag in the comment section. Got another one here, Julian, from our show last week. Uh, guys, creating the lineup of cookies was actually a genius bit. I was laughing so hard. The Friday show with Haley and the Gentilly, they've got their draft.

You guys need to make lineups a thing on the Monday show. Someone tweeted at us a lineup. Did they? I thought they did. Well, that same person sent us a, uh, a comment, I believe. Because. Oh, cool. I'm going to read this out here.

Guys, first of all, I feel really bad for both of you when you got to the cookie lineup portion of your podcast. If y'all never heard of a fresh baked cookie in your lives. Hey. Stop sleeping. Stop sleeping on fresh baked cookies. And here, FYI, is the ultimate cookie lineup. Okay? So I'm just going to sleep on fresh baked cookies.

That could cover any type of cookie. What are you going on? about. Just because we said chocolate chip cookies doesn't necessarily mean we're just going to say chips a hoi. Macadamia nut doesn't have to be the cookies from Subway. It's a good point. Anyway, so this person says snickerdoodle, chocolate chip, and peanut butter are your top line. That's a pretty, that's a pretty, that's, I don't know, but straight peanut butter is like, top line. Snickerdoodle? I mean, I don't know. Pia. Peanut butter is not bad.

It's okay. But just plain, this is plain. And do all peanut butter cookies have to have that little indentation with like a fork in the middle of them? Is that like a rule? Like, did everybody get together and say, okay, be it resolved. When we make peanut butter cookies moving forward, we have to just press a fork down in the middle of it. Press them down. I don't know why that is.

I don't know why that is. Are we like aerating them? Like giving them, I don't know room to breathe. I don't know. But you know what I mean. has to be the first line center. Chocolate chip has to be the first line center. That is like, like chocolate chip cookies,

I think of all cookies, the most universally adored cookie. So I think as a, it's the goat. It's the number one center of cookies. But this person also has their fourth line center. Their cookie is a Russian tea cake. I don't know what that is.

I don't know what that is. I would say let's go to Google, but I think we've, We've exhausted, think we've exhausted Google enough today. Can you, can you just Google Dave Babbage Camono for me while you're there? Just make sure. She's, so Dave Babbage, uh, uh, Bobby Francis. Pilons.

What else are we, pylons? Like, it's just we've, we've, I think we've exhausted the Google machine for, for one episode. Let's save some, let's save some of these for next week. Well, the, the, the, the beauty is, uh, Our producer Chris Flannery has done some of the work for us here. And he has sent us a picture of the Russian tea cakes, which look like, they just look like,

they almost look like donut holes or timbits for people in Canada. They look like little, like powdered sugar. So powdered sugar and donuts is almost what they look like. Isn't America the American equivalent of timbits? I mean, I know there are some cities in America that have Tim Hortons, but isn't the American equivalent munchkins? like what Dunkin' Donuts has. Munchkins is the Dunkin' Donuts brand of Timbitts, right?

Isn't it that, like, did Ottawa have a Dunkin' Donuts? Because I remember Montreal having a Dunkin' Donuts. Yeah, Ottawa used to have a Dunkin' Donuts. I don't, I think it's, Duncan Donuts just dominates like the Northeast, right? Like the Boston, Massachusetts. They love Duncan. Austin. Yeah.

Our good friend, Saracivian, is probably enjoying Duncan today. Yeah. 100%. 100%. Anyway, we better wrap this show up. Now I'm like now I'm actually legit hungry. Yeah, I feel like that last couple of seconds, I just kind of broke your concentration.

Like, yeah. I'm going to get me some food after this is over. Exactly. Yeah. I'm going to get a hangary here. Oh, right. The episode. Oh, my God. Yeah. Jack Adams of the week.

Jack Adams winner of the week. Jay Woodcroft, the Oilers, Julian, the only team to go a perfect 4-0 in the past week. They have really, I think they got a lot of people thinking that they might be the favorite or a team to beat in the West. They certainly feel like they're hitting on all cylinders. Woodcroft takes the oilers. They go 4-0.

But it was a great week in Alberta. We talked about earlier, Darryl Sutter. Lames go 3-0. San Jose and Tampa also went 3-0 last week. But who gets your vote for Jack Adams winner of the week? Darrell Sutter, because the team went 3-0. and he battled a flu bug or some kind of bug all the way through it. I will give a hat tip to my colleague Eric Francis out at Sports.

Who was at the game in Vancouver where the flames came back and won. And I don't know how we got it, but Darryl Sutter apparently was not feeling well in between periods of that game. I remember going to Kirk Muller after the fact and being like, hey, like, is Darrell Sutter okay? And he's like, oh, he was, he was not well during that game. And then yesterday, after the Flames win over Anaheim, I tried to just ask Darrell myself, like, hey, are you okay? And Darrell kind of gave me, he kind of put his hands out as like a stay away type of deal. Dude is not, dude is going through it right now in terms of illness. So while Jay Woodcroft is 4-0, I will, I'm willing to give Darrell some.

or something for going through this with whatever illness he seems to have right now because he clearly is like not feeling well. You know what? You talked to me into it earlier in the pod. The fact that the flames have clawed their way back into it. Look, Edmonton's going to make the playoffs. So, you know, Jay Woodcroft going for and oh, it's great. But Darrell Sutter and the Flames had to go 3 and 0, right?

Like, it's not like they had to go 3-0. These are must-win games. and for them to answer the bell in the manner in which they've done, I don't see how anybody else has done a better job coaching their team in the last seven days than Daryl Sutter. So make it unanimous. Daryl Sutter. There we go.

Daryl Sutter is the Jack Adams, fitting it goes to the raining Jack Adams winner. Yeah, exactly. As we talked about earlier, it's pretty hard to do an encore performance when you win that, but Daryl Sutter is certainly doing a good job in the last little week or so with the flames. And we always wrap up the Monday edition of the podcast.

pod with a little multiple choice madness. Now, I got a scenario for you. You tell me what you prefer. Okay? Do you think the division winner with the best record in each conference should be allowed to pick the wildcard team they're going to face in the first round? And your options are a yes. You know what?

This would be unique. It would actually add a like a spicy element to the first round matchup between a division winner and an underdog or no. B, you know what? No. This is too gimmicky. Yes. This is dumb.

Yes. Where are you going for? A or B? The NHL needs any bit of excitement they could generate. I get the playoffs that they have. Gary Bettman will tell you till he's blue in the face that they're the best in the world and we could argue about the format as much as we want. A great compromise would be seeing a division winner say, hey, you know what?

We are the best team. We've earned the right to pick the team we want to play in that first round. I'm also just envisioning. Like imagine like two days before the playoffs start. Sportsnet or TNT, they do a whole hour long show where each divisional team announces the team they're going to face in the first round. Some people are going to call it a gimmick. I think it's it's got the potential to be the most exciting thing you could add to the NHL. Imagine you're Boston and you go through the year.

you're going through. And you decide, all right, guys, we are going to pick the Florida Panthers as our team to play in the first round. And imagine if Florida somehow gets an upset over that, like, over that team, like, come on, the drama, the built in stakes, like the built, like, immediately there's disdain. It's like, oh, you think we're the lowly team that's just going to roll over and die. Like, you think we're the easy out. Like, the potential for madness off of that format. is, would be unparalleled compared to other sports. The NBA is trying to do the in-season tournament. Why can't the NHL be different and do something like this? I would love, love to see teams, like, pick who they would want to play in the first round.

I would love that. That would be incredible. And then you recede after that and you just have it just go traditional. But I would love that idea. Yes. I think so too. But look, and I think maybe you only give that right to the team with the best record in each conference.

You know, incentivized it. That might be fair too. You know, that's fair. And you have to pick a wild card opponent. So, like, I'm in agreement with you. I like the idea. It would be unique and all that.

So let's play this out in the Western Conference for a second. And right now, and by the way, these Western Conference division races are unreal. Like, Minnesota, Colorado, Dallas, separated by one point. Vegas, L.A.,

Edmonton, separated by two points. Like, I don't know who's going to win these divisions. But let's play this out for a second. Let's say Vegas ends up with the best record in the Western Conference. Okay. Now, you have your choice of playing either the Seattle Cracken, the Winnipeg Jets, or let's say, the Calgary Flames. Now, I'm taking the Cracken all day long because, like,

Winnipeg scares me with Hellebuck. Calgary would scare me because if they got in, that means they've been playing well, right? Like, they're probably feeling hot. And they play a style that is conducive to some sort of, success in the playoffs. Yeah. Like, and the crack in their goal tening, it seems a little sus. Like,

that, so, like, to me, I agree. Right. So, but, but you only let that team pick the opponent. Then the other division winner, they get the other wildcard team, and away you go. And I feel like that's a way to, to make it fun, right? And I agree. Yeah. I agree. Like, just, yeah, that's fine. If you don't want to make it each division winner, say like Boston and Vegas, they get to pick.

That's still really exciting. Like that would still be really, really fun. And there's a way to, like, I don't know, you could make that a day where like you have, you have that. And then maybe the draft lottery happens as well. Like that is an opportunity to drive eyeballs. The only thing is that you just have to make sure that like the teams that are leading don't like, leak their pick in advance, I suppose. And maybe if there's a year where like, say like Boston

does so well, like they get like the penguins or something. And we know that they have like a 4-0 record against the penguins. Maybe that takes this thing out of it. But still like, I don't know, like there's still that possibility of an upset. And like I think that fact like that still makes it exciting. That still builds in the hate of like, you know, if you're the team that gets picked down. I was like, oh, you think we're going to, you think we suck. Like, I, I think that's a cool idea and I think the NHL should do it. Okay. We're going to leave it there. We're going to leave it with us agreeing with each other. Look at this. Podcast started with some tension over the, uh, the way I kick off the Monday show. And look,

we're ending. We're ending with, we're ending on a good dog. All right. Hey, you know, when I, when I, when I, when I, when I, when I, uh, our producer puts in a, like, a couple of little lines. Make sure you read these things. I'm going to read this line for line. I want you to jump in where you tell me this is a weird line. This is never in there. Okay?

You ready? Okay. Well, thank you everybody for, thank you everybody for listening to this Monday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. Follow us on your favorite podcast platform. Leave us a rating or review. We certainly appreciate that.

Special thanks to Chris Flannery for editing this show. What's wrong with that line? Well, when did this kid added in? Does Chris plan? Flandery not feel like, like, does Chris Flannery not feel like he's getting his flowers? Like, what happened? I, I added the line.

You did. You, what do you do and messing around with the promo reads here? So I took that read. And for the, for those who listened to the podcast on fighting that I did over the weekend, because of the fact that it was a special edition, I figured it was worth adding special thanks to Chris. for editing that episode. Well, maybe we should leave that in. Yeah.

You don't have to leave that in. No, we're leaving it in now. Producer Chris. Producer Chris. Producer Chris, who also serves as our research assistant on Google promotes the show as well.

But yeah, thanks to Chris as always. Amazing producer and a diehard Rangers fan. We love working with him. So thanks to Chris for putting this one together. As always, I want to remind you, or listeners, you get a one-year subscription to the Athletic for just a dollar a month when you visit athletic.com slash ownership.

Corsi!