The Athletic Hockey Show - Leon Draisaitl's pissy response, Kent Hughes huge task to rebuild Montreal Canadiens, All-Star Nazem Kadri and the red hot Colorado Avalanche and Willie O'Ree finally gets his jersey retired

Episode Date: January 19, 2022

Rob Pizzo from CBC Sports, along with Sara Civian and Jesse Granger from the Athletic return with the Wednesday roundtable. The crew discusses the heated exchange between Hall of Fame hockey writer Jim Matheson and Oilers star forward Leon Draisaitl. Jesse and Sara share their experiences in the heat of battle in scrums with players and coaches, and how zoom has made it difficult toThe roundtable takes a look at the new General Manager in Montreal, former player agent Kent Hughes and the work he has ahead to rebuild the Habs, we ask should every team be represented at the All-star game and we stick tap the great Willie O'Ree, who finally gets his jersey retired in Boston.Plus, is the NHL and Players Association's decision to stop testing asymptomatic players the right thing to do?Peter Baugh, the Colorado Avalanche writer for the Athletic joins the panel to discuss the red hot Avs who are a top team in the NHL and a favourite to win the Stanley Cup this Spring and impending UFA Nazem Kadri who gets his just reward by being voted in to the all-star game as last man in. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What's going on, everybody? Welcome to another edition of the Athletic Hockey Show, the Wednesday Roundtable Edition. I am Rob Pizel from CBC Sports, joined as always by Sarah Sivian and Jesse Granger. Hey, guys, it's been a while since all three of us have actually been able to do a show, like so many things, just interrupting this happy little roundtable we have going on.

How are you? A lot going on, but I'm glad to be back, you know, back in the swing of things. How are you, Jesse? I'm good. I am finally free from Jerry D. I've been stuck in jury duty for, well, it's like, it got delayed because one of the jurors got COVID. So that delayed it a few days.

And then we came back and we tried to, and then the judge and one of the attorneys got sick. And we had to delay it like a week for that. And then we got back in. We finished the last night. To top it off, cherry on top, we got stuck in the elevator trying to get out of the building. At 945 at night, we finally rendered a verdict. And we literally got, I'm not making this up, stuck in the elevator trying to get out of the building. and I am finally done.

It was a nightmare, but it's over. I don't know how much you could tell us, but how was the deliberation? Because I always wonder about that. You know, you hear about these juries that have to, like, argue it. And there's always one person who's like, nope, I'm not budging.

Yeah, it was, yeah, I honestly don't know how. I won't get detailed to make sure I don't like break any rules. It was interesting. First time, yeah, I know. I'll be right back at the courthouse. It was interesting. That's the first time I've ever done it. And like, because I,

like spoke up a little bit more than most in the courtroom, I guess. I wasn't as shy. Of course, I got, I did not want to be the floor person, which is like the captain of the, you have to be the one that like hands it to the judge and like, you have to talk and answer to the attorneys. And like, they all made me do it. Everyone, I was like, please not me, anyone but me. And we like, went around the table and no one volunteered. And they're like, yeah, I guess it's you. You're stuck doing it. I'm like, so it was interesting. It was. I actually didn't mind the actual jury duty experience. If it wasn't during hockey season, I wouldn't.

Like, if it happened in the summer, I would have been perfectly cool with it. Like, sign me up. It's not, it's not too bad. But it was very hectic with work. You could just see them like, isn't that Jesse Granger from the athletic? He does a pot too. He should be the guy. Yeah.

I came this close to being on the jury for a murder trial. We found out they pulled us in and said, thank you. We've got our jury and you guys are excused. but this was a murder trial. I'm thinking, oh, man, I would have been gone for a long, long time. But you know what? This isn't a court show. This is actually a hockey show.

And we got a lot to talk about. The HABs finally have a GM. We'll talk a little bit of the All-Star game and some of the late picks. Of course, we can't do a show in this day and age without talking about COVID and the new testing protocols in the NHL. And of course, Willie O'Re, his number 22 race of the Raptors in Boston yesterday, in a great ceremony there. And we'll speak to Peter Ball about the Colorado Avalanche,

just doing all Colorado avalanchey things. Usually that involves scoring a lot of goals. But guys, I got to start on a pissy note. No. Yeah, not my first rodeo. I'm not breaking any news here. Things not going well in Edmonton at the moment. And the frustration seemed to boil over.

at a press conference, Leon Drysidel, at the microphone. And very long time Edmonton Oilers reporter, Jim Matheson asking the question. In case you missed it, give it a listen. Lots of reasons for why the owners are playing the way they are in terms of winning and losing. What do you think is the number one reason for the losses now? Is there one thing that you're in your own mind, you're saying, we've got to get better at that. Yeah, we have to get better at that. better at everything.

Would you like to expand on that? No. You can do that. You know everything. Why are you so pissy, Leon? Why are you so pissy? I'm not. I'm just answering your...

Yeah, you are. Whatever I ask you a question. I gave you an answer. Not very good one. Okay. I have one more for you. Leon, you show your frustration on the ice last game against Ottawa. Is that a good thing when you show it so the other team know?

other team knows you're frustrated. Yeah, it's a great thing for sure. Good. Good. Okay, guys. So did that clip make you pissy? You both cover a team on a regular basis. What did you think when you first heard that? Jesse, we'll start with you. I thought, I mean, it was definitely entertaining to watch. I feel like as soon as something like that happens, the internet loves to blame one side or the other. Oh, what a terrible reporter or, or, or And then the other half are saying, oh, Leon, how unprofessional you're getting paid all these millions of dollars. Like, to me, it's a little more gray than that. And I think, like, I think, like, I think the, the initial question is perfectly fine. I think he probably shouldn't have asked him why he's pissy. That's an unprofessional question in that setting.

I think dry's idle handled it well other than he probably didn't need to throw in there, you know everything. Yeah. I guess my, my, the thing I'll say about this is I think this is partially a product of, of reporters not being allowed in locker rooms. And I know this is going to come across as, oh, here's Jesse, the reporter. He wants to be allowed in locker rooms because he thinks it's cool. So, of course, he wants in there. But I really do think that the relationships day to day talking to these players face to face, the respect that's built up, because I think that's what it comes down to. There's a lack of respect between Leon Drysidal and Matheson.

And I think that is much easier to cultivate when you're in the locker room talking to him every day. I think there's clearly some frustration by Drys Idol built up that led up to this. It wasn't simply just that question. He was upset with some of the narratives that had been happening. And I think when you're in the locker room every day, that kind of stuff gets talked about and it gets hashed over. It doesn't get built up. And then you don't have blowups like that. So that would be my opinion on the whole thing.

Yeah. My first initial reaction to that was I wish I had the balls. Like I wish I would say something like that one of these days. I don't think I would say exactly that. But I was like, whoa, this guy really doesn't care. But I've seen his work. I know it's been a career where he kind of doesn't care, which is good as a reporter. You should be fearless when it comes to kind of your sources.

And I feel like too many hockey journalists or suckups like myself included, kind of. And I do think it was taking it too far. And there's clearly a strained relationship there, which is also not good for your story and getting to the bot. Like it needs to be a delicate balance. But part of that is kind of having these arguments and hatching it out later. and with everything on, I agree with the point about the walkrooms because I feel like it's really hard to do that these days, but I don't know if Maddie would have done that. But who's to say, it seems like a relationship strain that has lasted years. So I don't, I don't think anybody was right or wrong in this situation.

Thomas Durant's had a good tweet about it where he was just like, I kind of love this on both sides. Like nobody's right or wrong. It's entertaining. Kind of agree. I don't know Jim Matheson. Obviously, I know who he is and I've followed his work. I mean, he's been covering the Euler since the WHA days in 1973. I'll tell you what I thought when I first saw it. I saw a veteran reporter with an opportunity to make a viral moment and he took it. I don't know if Jim Matheson had a microphone that wasn't on. If he knew his voice wasn't going to be captured, he does that. I think he said, let me get a good sound. that's going to go viral because right now Leon Drysidels frustration is so boiled over. And this thing went viral. You know how for me personally, I know if a hockey clip has gone a little bananas when my wife asks me about it because she follows one hockey person on Twitter and that's me.

So if she sees it, she's like, do these guys hate each other? What's the history here? And I said, well, I really don't know the history. Things are not going great in Edmonton, but I kind of just, I don't know. I looked at it like he was really poking the bear. to get to get something good and he got something good and it was all within i mean the clips what 50 some odd seconds that's perfect to post and and go viral um but i agree with you on the the dressing room aspect now i've never covered a specific hockey team on a regular basis i've done it in basketball if something like that happens and then you're in the dressing room after you guys know this you hash it out and but the problem is all the

media availability now are broadcast live on the internet broadcast live. There is no relationship like you said, Jesse, where you can kind of go, hey, Leon, sorry, man. I didn't, I didn't mean to do that. Or vice versa. Leon goes up to Jim Matts and goes, man, we just lost again. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to do that. So I mean, have you guys had those awkward situations like that? Have you been in, even if it's not you, been in the room where you kind of like, you pull your collar, you go, God, this is, this is weird. There's been a few. And I will admit like when I said I wish I had the balls to kind of go harder. I'm not like a very I am critical when necessary but I feel like I'm more likely to have an optimistic take. That's

just who I am and that's okay. But so I don't really run into situations and the canes have been really good. So it's not like a situation like this, but there have been covering a team that's first place in the NHL right now. Like I think things are pretty good. After not making playoffs for a decade every single year since I've been here. So I've been lucky. But there have been situations certain players where it's like they'll make a sarcastic remark about something like they'll say something that I wrote in like a sarcastic voice and like I think I made fun of some guy for not being like an all-star and he was just like yeah I can't believe Aho made the all-star lineup without all-star line mates or whatever but he was just giving me a hard time and I'm like you know

I'm just like kidding right like I don't actually mean whatever I feel like developing a relationship where I'm also a lot to be made fun of has really helped. my relationship in general in the room. I don't know, Jesse, what about you? Yeah, I'm in a similar situation to Sarah where I'm covering an expansion team that has done nothing but go to conference finals every single season. So there hasn't been a lot of negative. There hasn't been a lot of negativity in Vegas, but like, spoiled drugs.

You spoiled, like my wallet's too small for my $100 a bill. Go ahead. But like literally last week, this happened. The Golden Knights lost a game. They were severely shorthanded. Pete DeBore was, it was to Toronto. they had a bunch of players in COVID, a bunch of players hurt. Pete DeBore's upset after the loss.

He's kind of like, he's not in a good mood. And I asked a question about their home record. Their home record has not been good this year. And he said, well, Jesse, do we have our full team? Next question stood up, walked out of the press conference. Press conference is over. In normal times, I would walk up to Pete after that press conference and be like, and just talk it out. We're not able to.

Now, to Pete, like Pete is the ultimate professional. The next day after practice, I asked a completely unrelated question. He stops me and goes, Jesse, let's go back to last night. I just want to say, that was a perfectly fair question. I didn't answer it the most professionally. I wasn't in the right state of mind. I was kind of upset after loss. And then he gave me this like three minute quote for my story that was amazing.

Those are the type of things that happen off the camera usually. But now they're having to happen on Zoom in front of the world. those, like, I don't know, the one thing I'll say is, like, there's a lot of conversations that need to happen to, for me personally, like for a reporter to do their job correctly and for them to tell the story of the team the best way, there are a lot of conversations that need to happen that everyone isn't listening to. I think everyone can't listen to everything we talk about with the players and the coaches in order for us to do our jobs right, because I think the players and the coaches need to tell us things that aren't on the record in order for us to understand what's going on. So I think when, I think that's part of what boiled into this. It's not all of it. I think Drysidal and Matheson clearly have disagreements on things. But I think if he was in there in the locker room talking to Leon every day, it doesn't reach the point where he's not answering his questions. He's asking him if he's pissy. He's drysidal saying, you know everything. Why don't you just write it? Like, that's clearly to me a product of these guys not having communication. And I also think that they have, the Edmonton

media is very much like critical of the players instead of critical of the GM who has built the team in a not great way. So I think that is the context that's kind of missing in these clips, you know. And let's just, let's blame one thing that's right there, as we said, frustration just boils over. Yeah. I mean, we've all done it. And I make a joke sometimes. I'm in a pissy mood after a bad men's league hockey game.

I couldn't imagine being an Edmonton Oiler, one of the two, you know, top offensive players in the game right now and your team might not make the playoffs and you got to answer the same damn question over and over again. I just, like I said, I just kind of felt like it was, maybe opportunistic isn't the right word. But I didn't feel the same way as when I saw Larry Brooks and John Tortorella, you know, kind of going at it. That one felt like two guys who were angry at each other. And then you find out that they're fine, you know, they hash it out. Again, I think that the ongoing thing here is they didn't get an opportunity to hash it out.

But I'll tell you one thing. I'm watching the next Edmonton Oilers, a few press conferences. Because I want to hear from that poor PR director. who I don't ever envy the job of a PR director, especially in a COVID age to go, your next question is from Jim Matheson. Go ahead because that's going to be a lot of fun. Habs finally have their GM.

Kent Hughes, 18th GM in team history. Just get this out of the way. Born in Montreal and speaks French, everybody. There we go. We're good, right? Known as an agent. And it was, it's funny, as we started this show that this, right before we started,

The thought popped into my head, like, how many agents have made this transition? And this was just me scribbling names down. Brian Burke, I got Dean Lombardi, Peter Shirelli, Mike Gillis, and Mike Barnett. And, oh, Brian Lotton, too, was another one. Was Kyle Dufus an agent? Our producer, Jeff is saying, yes, he was. So there we go. That's why Jeff's our producer.

He was the youngest agent ever. He was the youngest agent ever certified. I was way too cocky about that. I just, no. No. But I'm wondering about just that transition before we get into the Montreal Canadiens. I mean, like, you're literally changing teams here. You're usually battling, asking for more money, everything else.

And suddenly you're on the other side. We've seen some successful guys do it. But I'm wondering about that transition. What do you think, Sarah? Well, it's inside out. That's a perfect, like it's devil's advocate. It's a perfect thing to do. Like sometimes I'll read books about things that I totally disagree with so I can understand

their arguments. You're coming from a place of leverage. Look at you being all educated and stuff. Reading things that don't agree with. Usually I just toss that stuff aside. I want stuff I agree with. Jesse, what do you think? Yeah, I completely agree with Sarah.

And I think that we kind of talked about like the unique having Jeff Gorton there to help whoever they hired along. I think that unique position that this new GM was going to be in allows them to hire someone like an agent who may not have the experience with the other stuff, but is really good at one specific thing, which is negotiating contracts. So I'm all for this. I don't know a ton about the actual hire, but I do think that swinging for someone new,

someone that they think has a really bright mind and someone that can maybe transition into, like can learn on the job. I like that direction. I thought something Pierre LeBron said was really, really interesting, where he talked about this was more about the Habs convincing him to take the job than him. Like they almost had to, according to Pierre LeBron, they almost had to twist his arm.

I'm like, please, you know, take this job. And I'm thinking, man, is it the pressure? Is there anything else? And then I look. And, you know, he represents 17 players, salaries totaling $279 million. So, you know, I know every contract is different, but a percentage of $279 million is a lot of money. So, and he's got a bit of that connection with Jeff Gordon from the, you know, the time in Boston. But I'm kind of glad this thing.

is done, but it's interesting, like I said, it's interesting to see that kind of transition, you know, a guy who's never really done it in a place like Montreal and Sarah. What's the Montreal media like? I don't know if you've ever mentioned. Oh, they're lovely. My best friends forever. Jesse, you're gearing up for the All-Star game in your in your hood. The final last men were announced, Nazim Kodry, Steven Sandkos, Troy Terry, and Jake Gensel, last men for the All-Star game, via the fan vote was actually Mika's been jad, but he can't go because of personal reasons. But

Cadre was the top vote getter, received more than double the amount of votes from anyone else in the Central, which I thought was interesting. And I know we'll talk probably more in the second segment in regards to Cadry, but I think this works. I'm not a huge fan of every team needs to be represented at the

All-Star game, and Jesse's nodding as emphatically. Aggressively as I possibly can, because I've never agreed with a take of years ever more than this. I think it's so ridiculous to, to you've got guys like like example, for example, Mark Stone in Vegas. He's going to his first all-star game. That is criminal. And the reason is because it's so hard to make it because if you've got one other superstar on your team, you're never going to make the all-star game because they have to give, let's just pick a random name out of here. Jordan Eberley has to be on. Like someone from the Seattle

Cracken has to be on. Sorry, Jordan Eberley, but like, like Chandler-Stevenson leads the Golden Knights with 36 points, Eberley, and he has to be in, or Adrian Kempe from the Kings, and like the Avalanche have seven guys who should be on the All-Star team. I think it's the participation game in Las Vegas,

not the All-Star game. As Nathan McKinnon put it, yeah. I disagree with you guys. I feel like it doesn't matter to begin with, and it's supposed to be a fun. It is a part-to-what-is-it, what is it if it's not a participation thing? I feel like...

Is it not supposed to be a reward for a good first- for the season, Sarah? Come on. I would dread go. I don't know if I'm just lazy. Like, I don't know, but I would dread going unless it was in Vegas, I guess.

So maybe this one's different, but with COVID, too, it's just kind of like, I wouldn't want to go no matter what. That's just me. I'm not even saying the act of it. I'm sure a lot of players would be okay with not being selected

because they get a break. I'm just saying, though, like, you know, it used to be if you were, if you were giving someone's bio, you know, you would say, this is a guy who's got 500 goals,

12 all-star selection. I don't do that anymore in my job because I don't think it's, it's, that's what it's about anymore. It's become a situation where you're there. And if that's what it is, fine. But let's, that's completely ignore everything they've done in the first half of the season if that's what we're going to do. If it's just a showcase of, of players, make it a full fan vote and end it. Because as you said, participation game, like let's stop pretending this is, this is a reward for them. Yeah.

And I love that Jesse's never agreed with my take more. and Sarah's like, I disagree with the both of you. Great. We talked a lot about the COVID situation, and this is something we kind of touched on a couple weeks ago. NHL changing their protocol in regards to what they do and what they test. No longer testing asymptomatic testing of players and fully vaccinated who had close contacts. And testing will continue only on a, quote, four cause basis.

Jesse, you brought this up a few weeks. go, so I'm assuming you're a big fan of it. I mean, I don't know about big fan. I don't know. And like, I like this. Dr. Granger, we want your medical opinion on this. The scientists seem to not have a clue like in a lot of this. We're trying to figure it out as we go.

So I'm not going to pretend like I know, but I will say that this will make things run a lot smoother, right? Yeah. That I think a few months ago or last month, I told you guys about what my doctor said when I had a checkup that she thinks this asymptomatic non-tenths. is the way to go at this point because there's no, if they're going to have a season and Omkron is like the most contagious thing she's ever seen. It's going to happen no matter what. So it's like it's going to be a hassle or it isn't. And I don't know. I don't know. As Jesse said, I think the only take to have about this is I'm not a scientist. I see people going at it on both sides and it's like at this point, what are you guys even arguing about?

Like let's take a step back and see, I don't know. I'm not a genius, not a scientist, not in immunologists. People have been argued about this for two years, Sarah. We're going to get this arguing until this thing is completely gone. Before we head to the break, Willie O'Re, number 22, raised to the rafters in Boston, of course broke the color barrier and they did it 64 years afterwards. And unfortunately, he couldn't be there because of just being,

you know, vigilant in regards to COVID. But he was there via Zoom or whatever they did to bring him in there. But pretty nice ceremony and very well. deserved. Very cool. Very cool. I think it's something that should be, my opinion should be talked about more in hockey, Willie O'Re. I feel like you don't hear his name as much as you should. I know we're on a podcast so people listening can't see, but I have all these bobbleheads behind me. My favorite, my most cherished bobblehead is a Willie O.Ree, San Diego Goals, A HL bobblehead that somebody sent to me. It's pretty awesome. That is awesome. One thing I never knew is that he was

95% blind in one eye. That is so impressive. And it was just so moving to listen to his speech yesterday. What a different, what a different time in the NHL, too, where you could get away with just lying. No, no, no. I see fine. You know, as if he didn't have enough to go through to break that color barrier. I remember interviewing him the night he got, the night he got inducted into the Hall of Fame and like a couple hours before. And he just was so grateful. And, you know, he was just such a classic. And you can just, he just felt, you can tell when somebody is just so grateful for what's about to happen. It makes you even happier for them.

And he still continues doing what he does with the NHL. And it was great yesterday to see that. But I will bring this up. I bring it up all the time. And I have no numbers to back this up, guys. But if you're a gambling person, bet against the team that's having some sort of ceremony. It always happens. Yeah, seven points.

You think they're going to be motivated. hey, they're raising a Stanley Cup banner, hey, they're retiring somebody's number. It always happens that way. And I didn't bet on it last night, but I should have. After the break, we're going to talk about a team that does put the puck in the net quite a bit. As we talked about earlier, the Colorado Avalanche. We're going to talk to Peter Bob about that after the break. So don't go anywhere.

Well, as Sarah likes to bring up each and every time, the Carolina hurricane sitting first place in the NHL right now. And when you look at points percentage at $750, and we have to start doing that. because everybody's all over the place when it comes to the schedule. So I look at points percentage or win percentage. And right behind them, the Colorado Avalanche at 736. And to talk about that team, let's bring in Peter Baugh, who covers them for the athletic peak? Thanks for doing this. Yeah, thank you for having me.

I mean, where do we start with this team? I mean, this month alone, 8, 0, and 1. And the crazy thing about them is we know they've got all the firepower in the world. We know this team scores in bunches. but this month, 41 goals and nine games. And you brought this up in one of your pieces. Just as someone who, as I mentioned in the first segment, likes to maybe put a dollar or two on a game,

when I look at Colorado, you know, facing a really good goaltender, you think, okay, I'm not going to bet against them, but I'm going to bet maybe the under in this one. They're scoring against some top-notch goaltenders and making them look very, very ordinary. 24 overs and eight unders so far this season for this team. I'm just going to stay away from the Colorado Avalanche.

Yeah, when it comes to betting under, that's that's probably smart. What's funny is they've scored four goals, at least in every game they've played in 2022, except for two games in which they got their fourth goal in a shootout. And those were against the wild backup goalie and the coyote's backup goalie. So they've against starting goalies, they've been pretty unbelievable. They put up seven against Halibuck. They put up four against Gibson and five against Jack Campbell. It's been pretty impressive to watch.

And with their 80 and one record since the turn of the calendar, it's funny, eight of those games or seven of those games, I believe they've trailed it at some point, which is kind of nuts. When you score in bunches, that's what happens. You know, falling behind by any amount really doesn't scare your fan base in any way, shape, or form. Goaltending. Let's talk goal take.

First off, any updates on Darcy Kemper? and I know you did a piece with our good buddy, Jesse Granger, kind of breaking down whether or not he is a Stanley Cup caliber goaltender. So question one, any updates there? And question two, what did you guys find out? And would you say he has a Stanley Cup caliber goaltender? So he took a hit from Jordan Greenway going across the crease yesterday that, or two days ago, that Jared Bender wanted the league to look at.

They didn't. But he left that. game, apparently, according to Bedner on his radio show this morning, he was on the ice in, he's on the ice with the team this morning. So I don't know if that means he's playing. I think we'll have to see a little bit about what his timeline is, but my guess is that they'll be somewhat cautious. I mean, obviously, it's more important to have him healthy at the end of this season than right now. And then secondly, to the story I did with Jesse, I think, and Jesse can speak to this a bit too. But what we found is

he's been a lot of the goals he's let in, there's a good explanation. Like it wasn't necessarily a huge breakdown on his end. A lot of the time it was either a defensive breakdown or a really good shot by an opponent.

I don't know if he's a goalie that necessarily is like Andre Vasileski who will go out and when you're like steal a bunch of games but he's certainly shown flashes of being a goalie that is good enough for the avalanche to win a lot of games. And I think that could continue in the playoffs. Yeah, I agree with that. It was for anyone who didn't read the piece, it was we looked at every goal he gave up in all of 2022.

And we kind of went through a one by one. And like, I guess the overarching thing when I look back is like most of those goals he gave up, it's not really on him. Like there were a couple that he bit on a fake and the guy beat him five whole. And, like, there were a couple that were hit on him. But for the most part, they aren't on him. The problem is, like, to be an elite goalie and to be maybe a Stanley Cup winning goalie, like, you have to make saves you're not supposed to. It's kind of the same argument that's been going on with Robin Leonard here in Vegas.

He's not having his best season. But he's not playing poorly, but it's like, yeah, but you need to make some saves that you aren't supposed to make. And I think that's what the abs are going to want out of Kemper going forward, like, especially, like you said, late in the season. And to kind of continue along that, like, this run that they're on is great. but everyone knows that the Colorado Avalanche are going to be judged based off what happens in April May. So I guess my question to you, Peter, is when you watch this team and you watch this impressive run thereon, what are you seeing that's different from the last couple years,

that you think can translate into a deeper playoff run? Like, what's different about this team than the last couple Colorado teams that were also really good? Yeah, well, it's funny. I think some of it is just right now they've got, I mean, last year in the playoffs, I think not having Nazan Khadri really hurt them. And he's there and he's having a career year. So even though on paper, maybe you look at last year's forward group and compare it to this year's forward group and you see that Brandon Sade is gone and Jonas Donskoi is gone and think that maybe this year's group isn't as deep, it's certainly playing better

than last year's forward group had like top to bottom. Valerian Etruscgen's been really good, though he's currently in COVID protocol. Andri Barakoski is having a career high in points. per game. Cadre, obviously, we mentioned, has had an unbelievable year. He's headed to the All-Star game. And then you have those guys who are making up an elite level second line to go along with the Lanoskog-McKinnon-Ranton line, which has been what you'd expect this year. So I think all that helps. It's funny. Nathan McKinnon was, he's been, he's had some kind of some bangor press conferences lately. He's, he's been pretty honest. And he's, it's funny, but he said the other

I think his quote was he was talking about how it's good for them to play in close games. And he's like, yeah, for a while they were just killing teams. And I think right now it's good that we're learning how to like pull out close games. He's like last year in the playoffs, I think it hurt us because we just wrecked teams all year. That's valid. Yeah, it was a good point. I thought it's, but he's so matter of fact what he says stuff like that. Like the quote with Cadre about like it's an all-star game, not a participation game and stuff like that.

He's just been, he's, he's been very, uh, candid and very fun lately. I've really enjoyed his press conferences, but I, I think, some of the stars, like, got to start having personalities, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And Nate is just, he's opinionated and pretty honest, which is, is great. Yeah. Yeah.

So he, uh, but, but I think that also could be something that benefits them come, um, the playoffs. Does they know, like, they had this big game against the Leafs earlier. this month where they were down four to one. And you can make all the Leafs jokes you want about blowing big leads or whatever. But they came back and won that game. And that's a game that I think that does a lot for a team's confidence of the ads didn't have a ton of comeback wins last year. This year they've had to kind of play from behind a little bit, scratch out like goals

late. And I think that that is something that could benefit them. But at the end of the day, like he said, none of this matters until. the playoffs. That's what this team is going to be judged on. Going back to Cadre for a minute. First off, I love the way you said, well, they really missed awesome Cadre in the play. Well, they missed him because he was suspended. He's made a career of getting suspensions at the worst possible time. And let's let's remember, it's a contract here. I'm wondering if Cadre, I mean, really, if he continues to do what he's doing this season,

and he doesn't get a call from the league during the playoffs, regardless of what happens, he's getting paid, right? He's having the type of season that, chuching, that your direct deposit is going to be a lot bigger next year. Yeah, I mean,

and rightfully so, like, I would, I think he has certainly earned a raise. I think he's making under $5 million right now. 4.5, I think, yeah. Yeah, and that,

that'll certainly go way up. But yeah, I mean, I think his playoff both performance and also staying on the ice is hugely important. And I think it's interesting looking at his suspensions because the way that Abse it is they see like in Toronto there were instances where he just lost his cool and let his temper get the best of him and did something reckless and that led to him getting suspended. Whereas they see this play last year as they saw it as like he was trying to make the right hockey.

play and missed his hit and that led to a scary injury and that's why he got suspended rather than him doing something like intentionally reckless. But those reckless plays led to you getting an eight game suspension, right? Exactly. Yeah. It's like if you have five speeding tickets and you get caught going, you know, one mile over the speed limit, well, guess what? You're getting a ticket.

Exactly. Yeah. Like past precedent led to that. And I think that's like, that's the thing with Cadre is like he's got a, he, he, He can't afford any slight slip up at this point. And that's just it. His past career has put him in that situation. And fair or unfair, it's probably where it's at.

To me, the most impressive thing about Cadreys is, I think, like, if you're not watching Aves games every night and you don't know their line combinations, like if you're just kind of watching from afar, you assume like, oh, Cadry, man, having a career year, like McKinnon and Renton and must be really feeding that guy. And you look at it, like you said, he's not even on that line. Like that big line, the top three, they're playing on their own. then Cadreys really driving that second line with Andre Berkovsky and Logan O'Connor. What is, like, how is he doing it?

Like, what stands out to you in his game this season? Yeah, well, I think a lot of it, Bedner talks about this a lot. A lot of it starts with the work ethic and putting that before the skill. He says when Cadry puts skill before the work ethic, then you won't see as much production. But when he is working hard, playing physical, being the power for it that he's capable of being while staying within the rules. He's a really productive player. And he's put the work first this year.

He's, his motor's been very high. He's been good defensively. And I think that all translates to good offensive play. And yeah, like he said, he hasn't been with the top guys. I think sometimes when McKinnon has been out,

he's been, they've slotted him at center, but that hasn't been a ton. And even when one of the either ranton or Lannisog has been out, they haven't played him on the top. line because I think they see a lot of value in having him drive his own line. I think they kind of need that. They need that guy who can drive the second line. And he has been more than capable of that this year. He's been he's been really productive and he's helped his line mates a

lot. And I think you see that in like Berkowski and Natchewskine's numbers. Like their numbers are way up because partially because of what they're doing, but partially because of what Cadreys doing. And also all three of those guys are in a contract year. So that all might play a little. little factor. Before we move on from Cadry, I just want to say I was at a men's league game once waiting to go on the ice when he was a Toronto Maple Leaf and a bunch of kids thought I was an awesome cadre and came up and started asking me for my autograph. I see it. I was this close. I'm like, no, I don't want to read these kids. They're all going to start asking for pictures and then somebody's their dad's going to be like when mom's going, that's not Nazim

Goddry? Peter, do you ever just wake up every morning and get a big smile in your face because you get paid actual money to watch Keel McCar do his thing each and every day? Because every time I see him do something, I'm like, man, I wish, I sometimes wish I could just watch him at practice because if he's doing that in games, he's doing it in practice too. Yeah, it's pretty incredible. I mean, I think that you see things every game that even if it doesn't end up being a highlight play, but just like an instance where he'll do something with his skating that's just

unbelievable or he'll get a shot off that not many people could get a shot off from like that angle or that quickly. It's it's really impressive when he gets in these modes where it's really just, it feels like he is choosing wherever he wants to go on the ice. And it's, there's nothing anyone can do to stop him. And so yeah, I definitely try and like keep in perspective like that I get to like, write about and watch a generational defenseman on a daily basis. It's pretty, it's pretty special. And he's, he's a phenomenal player. And you see that in the, the goals he's put up this year,

some of the highlights. But he's also been pretty good defensively, which I think sometimes gets a little overlooked because of how good offensively he is. He's been penalty killing a little more this year. And he's pretty good defensively at five on five. He's not perfect. He's not, I mean, Devon Taves is probably the best defensive defenseman on the team. And he's also very good offensively, which makes for a really impressive pairing. But kale has been pretty good defensively too, and it's an impressive thing to watch night in night out. You know what they say, Peter?

The best defense is a good offense, eh? I mean, it's kind of true. Like, if you just never let the puck get into the defensive zone. Yeah, it's like when the Blackhawks, I remember all those years when they were dominating and people said, well, they're one of the worst teams in the NHL for hits. It's like, well, yeah, they always have the puck. Exactly. They're not hitting anybody when you have the puck.

Yeah. So it's like that makes a lot of sense. But for me, it's a skating. I mean, there have been defensemen. Obviously, I'm not trying to necessarily at this point, put them in this category. But the Bobby Orr's, the Paul Coffies, the Scott Needam Myers, the difference with them was the way they skated. It was so effortless. And he turns on a dime and then turns back like those defensemen.

And that's what you're right, Peter. I've seen a lot of highlights. from a car that don't end up in a goal, but they still become highlights because they're just makes your eyes bug out of your head. Yeah. Yeah. It's, his edge work is pretty incredible.

I'm doing something right now. I can give a sneak preview, but I've been talking to like some skating coaches about, about what makes him so special in terms of his skating specifically. I want to read that. I'm looking for to that because it's. Yeah. And it's,

it's interesting just hearing like the details that they see because their eyes are a little more trained, obviously than mine. But like, just even like it goes down to like he, he keeps the puck in a really, like his puck placement is really good. And that allows him to do more with his skating. So he's, he's a very smart player and a very skilled player. And yeah, it's, it's impressive. I answer this question before you go. Jesse alluded to it earlier. Jared Bender keeps his job if the avalanche do what in the playoffs? What what does he have to do to make sure his, his pass still works at the arena for next season. Yeah, see, this is such, I'm going to give like a cop-out answer because it all depends on like,

like the abs have had like these years where they've gotten like really banged up in the playoffs and all that. I'd say, okay, if it's a fully healthy abs team, I think that if they get through the second round, I am pretty confident he's, he's going to be employed by the apps. I don't think Joe Sackick is in any way, shape, or form looking to make a move. that's not something he wants to do. He's patient. And whether As San's like it or not, like he,

he thinks that the team has one of the better coaches in the league, and he thinks that's not a type of guy you move on from. And if you look at like some of the ads playoff, I guess like the years that they've lost in, there's the whole second round narrative of they can't get out of the second round. But if you look at it, it's like they lost to San Jose in, games with a team that was probably ahead of schedule.

They probably, they, they, getting to game seven of the second round was a great outcome for them. Next year they lose to, in seven to Dallas with Landisog, two goalies, Matt Calvert, like half the team was hurt,

was not playing. And then the one that you really is, that out of fault is last year, was that like they, they had a two nothing lead and couldn't even get it to a seventh game. Like that was, that's one where you kind of have to look internally. But I think sometimes the whole second round narrative is a little overblown,

just because two of the three years were kind of like out of their control. There's so many predictable narratives. I was just going to say, like everybody has a second round narrative. I feel every team. Like, let's look at the context more. That's all I have to say. Yeah. Well, also it's like the Vegas in a normal year, last year they were in the same division.

In a normal year, they wouldn't have played each other until the third round. But since it was an all-interdivisional matchup, it was like the whole second round narrative was there. It's like the least having to play Boston every year losing in the first round. I'm always just curious with a team that's just so, so, so good and so fun to watch and so has so many weapons where, unfortunately, a coach is on the hot seat unless they have themselves a deep run after what they've seen over the last few years. Peter, thanks so much for doing this. Really appreciate it. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It's good talking, y'all.

Peter Bach, who covers the avalanche for the athletic, and this team is just red hot right now. We'll find out what Jesse and Sarah are up to. Coming up right after the break. All right, before we find out what you guys are up to in the next little bit, a couple things I want to throw in here. Eight years ago was the Calgary Vancouver brawl where John Tortorella went nuts and tried to go into the Calgary room,

which I've never seen a coach do. and I remember I was hosting a show the next day. And Kelly Rudy was the color man that day. And I was hosting with him the next day. And my favorite part is you see John Tortorella going nuts. And if you remember, like his face is red. He's ready to kill somebody. And Kelly Rudy's analysis was, okay, he needs to calm down.

I remember I said to Kelly, great analysis, Kelly. I mean, but he's like, Rob, I've never seen anything like that. I didn't know what to say. Do you guys remember that brawl? Yeah. Say what you will about torts. He cares. You know, like that's my main takeaway with torts at all time. Something else I wanted to bring up this whole thing going on with Trocheck and Marshawn and the hit and the rat and everything else. Sarah, maybe you can walk us through it because obviously you're a little closer than we are to this team. But every time Marciaun's around, as much as sometimes it can be annoying, I also find it entertaining. Yeah, people have to understand that this is all in good fun with the players, and they chirp like this 10 times worse on the ice every day.

Like, I think some people make things into actually a bigger deal than they actually are when this was just hilarious. And I want to encourage more of it. So I kind of wrote about that. But Chip Alexander of the News and Observer in Raleigh kind of asked Trochek if he saw any resemblance in his game with Marchand. And Trochecic said, are you calling me a rat? And then Brad posted on his Instagram their stats together. I was like, this is like comparing a Prius to a Lamborghini. He did delete that before a puck drop, probably not yelled at him someone.

But that was hilarious. And then the Keynes beat the Bruins 7 to 1. And Trocheck led with our favorite stat with five hits. So I think it was just, you need some of that. One of which on Marchon, one of which a big one on Marchon, yeah. Yeah, I think some, like I asked the players after the game if that had anything to do with the score. And they're all, of course, they're saying, no, I have to ask. But they're laughing.

They're like, yeah, no, we love Trocheck and that was funny, but we just came ready to play today. So I still think it had something to do with it because it makes people get up and get a little more excited. And I would love more of that. Absolutely. Guys, before we go, what are we working on, Sarah? I actually just wrote, I never say this about my own stories, but I kind of highly recommend

people read it, a story about Jack Walcontaine and how kind of that he went from Minnesota to the NHL in like 48 hours and kind of how that went down. It was one of those stories where you're reaching out to people you don't typically talk to and they're swearing. They're telling me everything. And I'm like, can I write this? They're like, please do. Like the Keynes goalie coach told Minnesota to cry in a river because he, like, Jack should be in the NHL if he wants to be.

And it kind of like, there was kind of a back and forth with, is it okay to take guys out of college hockey? And yes, it is. Like, this guy has been a fifth year senior. He graduated. He's been tossed around, like, if you know his history. It just read the story, you know. What about you, Jesse? Very cool.

Very cool. I'm working on a fun story on about how do they get the stink out of NHL locker rooms. Rob, as someone who plays beer league hockey, I know you know the smell of a locker room. And it's funny. And, like, what brought me to the story was you go into like a development camp where their rookies coming in and they're coming from their junior teams and they don't have professional equipment. They're using the equipment that is like gnarly. And you walk in and it like hits you like a brick wall, the smell. It is so bad. And I almost like when you go into NHL locker rooms, there is no

smell. But you almost don't like think about it. You don't notice that it doesn't smell in there. So, so when you go in one of like a regular locker room, you smell it. So I actually talked to the Golden Knights equipment manager and he took me through the like scientific like chemical problems. process. They put all the gloves and pads and like they've got drying machines. And it's like, it's a really cool look into a behind the scenes part of the game that no one really talks about. But it keeps these guys. There are, there are health benefits to it too. Like keeping microbials out of these guys like gear is important over an 82 game season where they're throwing it in planes and like throwing it in bags and getting it to the next city. So pretty, pretty fun story that I got to

write. It'll be coming out this week on. How did you even think? How did you even think? How did you even think about that idea. What an idea because, you know, I, as you said, we know that smell. We absolutely know that smell. And especially if it's one of those times you just throw your hockey bag in the basement. And then the next week, you're like, ooh, I didn't open this bag at all all week. My boyfriend plays in the Fed. I know that smell too. Oh, it's. Sarah knows it better than we do. I saw somebody once describe it as like a bag of Doritos left in hot vinegar for a week. And I'm like, It's pretty accurate. So be sure to check out those stories, guys.

As always, thanks so much. We'll see you next week. And I want to let everybody know some of the other things you can listen to in regards to the athletic hockey show. Team USA Olympic head coach Dave Quinn joins Craig Custinson and Sean Gentilly. So be sure to listen to that. The Olympics right around the corner. Thanks for listening to us. And you can follow us on your favorite podcast platform.

Don't forget, leave a rating and a review. And subscribe to the Athletic Audio Plus on Apple Podcast. to get all the bonus content from the entire network. This week, Craig Custinson and Sean Gentilly discussed the Mount Rushmore of defensemen in the NHL. You start with a 30-day free trial, 99 cents a month after that. Right now, you get an annual subscription to the Athletic

for just $399 a month when you visit theathletic.com slash hockey show. The athletic hockey show continues Thursday with Ian Mendez and down goes brown. I am Rob for Sarah, for Jesse. We'll see you next week.