The Athletic Hockey Show - Lou Lamoriello fires Barry Trotz as New York Islanders head coach, Stanley Cup playoffs first round storylines, Josh Yohe joins the show to talk Pittsburgh Penguins, Multiple Choice Madness, and more

Episode Date: May 9, 2022

First, Ian and guest cohost Julian McKenzie dive into Monday morning’s breaking news that New York Islanders GM Lou Lamoriello fired head coach Barry Trotz after four seasons behind the Isles bench.Then, the guys discuss a number of storylines from the first week of Stanley Cup playoffs action, including the high-scoring blowouts occurring seemingly every night, the Toronto Sun’s Steve Simmons asking Toronto Maple Leafs head coach Sheldon Keefe a loaded question about Justin Holl, Rod Brind’Amour’s ire over a non-goalie interference call in Game 4, Tony DeAngelo throwing his stick at Brad Marchand as he scored into an empty net, as well as thoughts on the upcoming NHL Draft Lottery set for Tuesday night.Next, The Athletic’s own Josh Yohe joins the show to talk about the Pittsburgh Penguins taking a surprising 2-1 series lead over the initially-favored New York Rangers and discuss Sidney Crosby’s renaissance performance so far, head coach Mike Sullivan deserving more credit as one of the best coaches in the league, Tristan Jarry’s potential return to the lineup late in the series, and more.Plus, to close things out, the guys answer a couple of Multiple Choice Madness questions about whether the NHL should automatically review every goal or not and which team would have the biggest offseason makeover if they lose in the first round.Now, you can get a 6 month subscription to The Athletic for just $1 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back, everybody. It is your Monday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. As always, Ian Mendez sitting in the co-host chair for your first episode of the new week. Although, we're going to give Haley Salvy in the week off because she is pretty deeply immersed in a playoff series between the Calgary Flames and the Dallas Star. So we're super excited to have Julian McKenzie sitting in. And my goodness gracious, we don't have a shortage of topics to get to, including Tampa, Toronto, Carolina, Boston, you know, L.A. Edmonton. a bunch of series that all of a sudden are tied up at two games apiece. We'll chat about some interesting postgame comments from coaches on the weekend.

Rod Brindamore a little bit sour about goalie interference. Sheldon Keef, not too pleased about a particular question. I lobbed his way about his starting lineup. We'll talk a little bit about the draft lottery coming up for those non-playoff listeners. But listen, Julian, I got to tell you, usually on a Monday, and as we were planning this show on the weekend, I was like, man, there's no shortage of great playoff storylines, as I kind of alluded to. And then Monday morning, the biggest story comes out in New York,

but it has nothing to do with the Rangers and the Penguins. By the way, we'll get Josh Yoey to drop by a little bit later in the podcast to tee up that series. What was your reaction in Julian McKenzie when you likely saw on Twitter today that the Islanders parted ways with Barry Trots after one season of missing the playoffs? What the hell? Why did they do that? that and also

for people who listened to the Chris Johnston show that news dropped almost immediately after we finished so I was thinking what the hell

and damn it so literally there's a photo going around on CJ's Twitter you can listen to the podcast through the Athletic by the way there's a photo of him like in an airport

like with like a laptop set up and like his phone behind it and he's saying like doing like an emergency read of the emergency like ad on to the podcast That's what we did. We had to add on an extra five, ten minutes of Barry Trots to deal with this because that's how big of a deal it was. If it was any other coach, we'd say, you know what, man, we'll leave it to Thursday.

We'll get to that. It's not a big deal. But Barry Trots, even though he was coaching the New York Islanders, a team that's not in the playoffs, he's regarded as one of the best coaches in the NHL for a reason. His defensive systems, the success that he's had, you don't just let a guy go, especially a guy with four million left on his contract. Like, I have so many questions about why the island. Islanders felt it was just right to let him go. I have a hard time kind of pinning this, pinning them missing the playoffs all on him. And I also just find the timing a bit random,

like smack in the middle of the playoffs as opposed to like not immediately after. Like we've seen other guys kind of, you know, lose their jobs like a lot sooner. So Barry Trots, the fact that he's already available, the fact that he's available, period, I have so many questions. Is this, is this the players just were not viving with him? Does Barry Trott's have other interests beyond head coaching that he wants to get into? Is Lou Lamarillo thinking of just going in a general different direction? And also, $4 million on the hook for that. Like something has to be up with why that happened.

Yeah, and listen, Lou Lamarillo spoke to reporters Monday morning and basically said, look, it was my decision. I didn't consult anybody else. It was my call. I felt like we needed a change. and he said the players needed a new voice, but then he also said, but it was my decision. So it's interesting, but if you go back to Lou and his time in New Jersey,

that he was trigger-happy, right? Remember he fired Claude Julian towards the end of a season in which they were, you know, a playoff team, right? Like, so he's had the itchy trigger finger before. What I find interesting on this is go back, like think about Barry Trots' last four years in the playoffs. He won a Stanley Cup with Washington and then left. He then joined an Islander's team that hadn't made the playoffs in a couple of years.

They swept Pittsburgh. Remember, his first year in New York, they swept Pittsburgh in round one. And ultimately lost in the second round, but they beat Pittsburgh. Then they go back to back to the conference final. And then in his, what turned out to be his last year in New York, they start the season with 13 consecutive games on the road. They get ravaged by COVID and he's out. Like, I, I'm with you.

Like there's some, there's got to be something else to this. But here's what I'm thinking, Julian. If I'm, I don't know, I guess I'll throw Peter DeBoer's name into the, in the mix because I think there's some questions about his long-term viability in Vegas.

And if I am now, maybe, maybe it's Sheldon Keefe if, if Toronto loses. Maybe it's Andrew Brunette, if Florida loses. All I know is there's going to be a whole bunch of coaches thinking, uh-oh, I think my job might be in jeopardy because arguably the best coach in the league or certainly a guy in that conversation is surprisingly on the market, right?

I'll throw Rick Bonas in Dallas as well. I know they have a series lead, but like that's a guy who's been questioning. There's been a lot of questions about his future, whether or not the Dallas stars do well. He may even retire after this year. There are a couple, I mean, there are obviously a different number of teams who have probably reached out to Barry Trots and are probably willing to throw the bag at him. Look, four million is nothing to sneeze at, but I'm sure that has to be a starting point to get Barry Trots to be your head coach. But like for a lot of teams in the playoffs right now, I'm really intrigued at the fact that Andrew Brunette,

who may even end up as a Jack Adams finalist, considering how this year has gone for the Florida Panthers. You're not the first person to mention, you know, he could be replaced. And you know what with this Florida Panthers team, considering how they've gone about their year? you know what they actually really need some damn defense some defensive structure because they can score some goals but sometimes they find themselves in a position where they have to outscore their problems. They could use a guy like Barry Trots to kind of enhance whatever defense they have and kind of have that discipline there. So it's been interesting that people have been willingly throwing out Andrew Burnett's name as a casualty in favor of Barry Trott's, but that's just how good he is. Almost anyone who has a coaching

vacancy. Winnipeg. I mean, there's the direct connection between Trots being a man of a native and then not having a head coach right now. Teams like them, there are so many of them right now that they should all be looking to get Barry Trots on their team. Detroit's also another option as well. But you know what I think is interesting too in all of this, Julian. There's a bunch of teams that are potentially looking for coaches or an upgraded coaching. And at the same time, I think we have never seen this many high profile kind of, you know, borderline Hall of Fame

worthy coaches on the market at the same time. Now, in the case of Trots, he's available because of being terminated with the Islanders. But you got John Totorella on this sideline. You've got Joel Quenville and Mike Babcock who are on this sideline for different reasons.

And that brings me to Quenville for a second and Brunette because Gary Bettman spoke on Friday night in Tampa Bay and was asked about Joel Quenville. And Gary Bettman basically said, look, we haven't started the, you know, the process to reinstate Joel Quenville. But he certainly left the door open for Quenville to possibly apply for reinstatement

and possibly be ready to coach maybe as early as next season. And so here's the question I ask you in regards to Florida. If the Panthers go out, and we do want to say that we are saying this very early in the process, they're down to 1 to Washington, they can come back. Let's say Florida goes out in the first round. President's trophy winner, they're bounced. If you're the Panthers and you're Bill Zito, you circle back to Joel Quenville and say,

you had us going, we were firing on all cylinders, or do you say, you know what, we got to turn the page and Barry Trots available? Like, what do you do if you're the Panthers? Do you, I mean, look, we have to acknowledge the fact that Joel Quenville being a part of the debacle with Kyle Beach and the Chicago Blackhawks, That's why he is out of a job. Exactly.

And if the Florida Panthers hire back Joe Quenville, they are going to have to deal with the negative blowback that comes from hiring him. Already the fact that Joe Quenville is being rumored to be linked to different teams at this juncture, we're not even like a year from him being suspended indefinitely by the National Hockey League or whatever the specific resolution they gave to him was. But the fact he has to apply for reinstatement,

It just shows how serious the situation was. The fact that we're not even a year out from that, already people are groaning and rolling their eyes at that. Just another sign that, like, a guy could be, you know, so air quotes held accountable, but only for so long before he ends up getting an opportunity. Because at the end of the day, if you are good at what you do, you can seemingly get through any transgression. And Joel Gwynville, you know, beyond what he did in Chicago with regards to upholding a culture of. of silence, which did not help Kyle Beach when he went through when he went through, has been one of the better coaches of the last decade plus. And teams who want to compete and win the Stanley Cup every year are not going to ignore

that. I would feel if I'm the Florida Panthers and they do that, like I just from a neutral standpoint, it would be very disappointing, you know, and just a sign that a guy like Joel Quenville getting the opportunity like that. It just, you just kind of have to wait a while. Not that long, honestly. Because I really didn't think he should be coached. I really don't think he should be coaching again.

I tend to agree with you. I feel like he's lost that privilege. I feel that what Bill Peters do. I feel like if you're doing stuff, like as a coach, you know, I get it. You're not like a father directly to the players that you have behind the bench. You are responsible for them in some way. I get their older guys and they have their lives and their family.

It's not like coaching a junior team. But like you're trying. trusted in some way. And like, I don't know how I feel about him being behind a bench, knowing what we know he did. And I don't know what he's done to atone for that. And maybe that's an equalizer and all this too. But I don't feel, if I'm a fan of the Florida Panthers and they go back to Joe Quentville, I know I feel very uneasy about it. I could not agree with you more. And you're right. Coaching athletes, regardless of their age, is a privilege. And, And, you know, the way you treat people.

And Bapcock is an interesting one too because I think questions about the way that he, you know, potentially handled himself. You know, so look, there's a bunch of coaching-related storylines that have popped up and I think will not be going away. I think about Boudreau in Vancouver. Like, this is going to be a really interesting offseason in terms of musical chairs for coaches. And I think a lot of it could be predicated on how some of these first round playoff series play up. which is a perfect segue for us to talk about some of those series, Julian, because on one hand, I'm like, man, I feel like we're going to get a bunch of game sevens this year. Like, there's a series that are tied to two apiece.

I don't know. And then on the other hand, I'm like, man, we've only had two overtime games. Like, one of my favorite things, I don't know about you. And if you live in Canada and you watch Hockey Night in Canada, I don't know if they do this on ESPN or TNT, but for years on Hockey Night in Canada, they do a segment called overtime magic. And you're watching the game and it's about to be overtime. And all they do is show the highlights of all the overtime goals from that year

and kind of get you fired up for what's to come. Well, this year it's going to be like file not found or footage not available. And it's only been two. So are you a little, are you underwhelmed? Because it's like Tampa Toronto is a great example. Blowout, alternating blowout. L.A. Edmonton. same thing.

you know, Carolina, Boston. It's like, I'm having a hard time here because there's no great compelling games deep into the third period on most nights. Which is funny because those three series, because of how those blowouts have been alternating, they could still end up in game sevens in each of those series.

And it's just, okay, whichever team just gets to the quick lead first might win. Like, that's what's really surprising about it. Like, I'm with you. I love that overtime magic segment. I look forward to that every time I get to watch it. and you just catch up on all the OT magic that's happened. Hockey 9 Canada, if they don't get enough of these OTs,

they might just have to start going back in like OT magic history, just be like, hey, these are all the OTA goals from this day, or this is what we did in 2016. Like, they're just going to have to be creative. Or hey, maybe that Penguins Rangers overtime period, I think that maybe accounted for a whole bunch of those or something. Good point. I don't know.

You know, the hockey gods are just played with us. Yeah, maybe the hockey gods are like, listen, everyone gets, you know, every, you get 90 minutes, of overtime, you know, and the Penguins Rangers used it all. Like, geez. But then again, you know what? We still had all those OT games in the bubble when like Tampa and, what was it, Tampa and Columbus went like, what, six, seven OTs?

Oh, yeah. How many OTs they go to? Those were ridiculous. That was the Corpusallo game, right? Yeah. Like, that's just, that's, that's just a wild game. But yeah, I, it is kind of wild to see these games and have the entry kind of sucked up. Like I had mother, so Mother's Day was this weekend.

And I had to help plan like a big Mother's Day dinner for like my mom, my aunt, and my grandma. And like, I get to my grandma's place. And, you know, I'm like, hey, I got to, I got to watch the TV because I got to, I got to watch this Leaves Lightning game so I could know what's going on. And it's already like three nothing or four nothing by the time I get there. And I'm like, well, there's nothing for me to, like, there's no intrigue. It's done. There's nothing for me to do. My grandma's looking at me and be like,

son, don't you want to watch the game? I mean, there's nothing for me to watch. It's already out for the lightning. I pretty much got it. But again, it's that series in particular, I mean, that series, Boston and Carolina as well, it's the fact that like one night, one team looks really good.

And in Toronto in particular, a lot of people are, they get high on the fact that the Leafs look really good in game one and game three. And then game two, game four, they don't look good enough. and the seesaw of emotions just teeters back to negative. There's no constant flow to this series,

and the games haven't been close enough. It's maybe not intriguing enough, but it's just so weird to see these teams just kind of teeter back and forth while blowing each other up. You know, that brings us to Toronto, Tampa, and the start of the game, and it was over.

It would be like a heavyweight fight in which, you know, four massive shots were delivered, delivered in the, well, three, technically, because it was three nothing Tampa early in the game. And it, you know, it was like, hey, call the fight, stop the fight. And in particular, the lightning came out and they were looked like a possessed team in the first 45, 60 seconds in that game, and it culminated with the Stevens-Tamco school. I want our listeners to listen to the post-game comments and this interaction between,

and I believe it's Steve Simmons who asked the question, a longtime Toronto-based writer who covers the Leafs. listen to this question from Steve Simmons to Sheldon Keith about the deployment of his starting lineup that kind of led to, you know, Toronto looking a little unglued early in the game. Again, have a listen. It is Steve Simmons with this question to Sheldon Keith.

Why would you start your worst defense in a building knowing it was going to be this loud than you today? Who's our worst defense team? Yes, the ball. That's your opinion, I guess. So listen, Julian, I have been fortunate enough to be in dozens of post-game, hundreds probably, of post-game sessions with coaches and players and tensions and temperatures can run pretty hot post-game. And one thing I've learned is, you know, try not to ask, I'll call it either leading or antagonizing questions, right? I felt like that one fell into the category of being a little bit leading and antagonizing because it was clear that the reporter, in this case, I believe it was Steve Simmons, wanted to,

kind of out Justin Hall as, you know, for, you know, hey, why'd you start your worst defenseman? Now, I don't know of any coach who would get up there and say, yeah, that guy's my worst defenseman. So I felt like it was a poorly worded question that was needlessly antagonistic. And I don't know if you agree with me or not. And it's okay. If you thought, if you thought, it was a fair question, that's fine. I just, I thought, man, you can't ask that question. You can ask it in a different way.

Like, hey, can you take us through your decision to start that lineup or why you started those five or whatever it is you want to do, do. But when you single out a guy, I feel like you're just going to get a tough response from a head coach. So like Steve Simmons has the experience that he has. I don't know about all the accolades that he has, but I've known about Steve Simmons for a good chunk of my life as long as I've wanted to be in sports media.

We're not talking about a nobody. We're not talking about some new guy who has no clue about how to ask questions in those scrums. It doesn't have the experiences that even I have. And I'm not in the hundreds like you might be, but I've been in enough across the NHL and other different sports to know about what questions should be asked and when they should be asked and how they should be asked. So the fact that Steve Simmons has that wealth of knowledge and experience and still ask that question, is it weird to say that like it was it was intentional that he asked it in that way? like there was some kind of shock value thing he was trying to go for when he asked that question. Because I think if I'm up here and I'm saying like that was a rookie move for Steve Simmons to do, I could understand why people would feel like, hey, that's a, that's not the reaction you want to do to that

because Steve Simmons has all that experience asking questions. But I have to think if that's not the case, then you, you, he had to have purposefully gone into that asking a leading question. Like, I know that, you know, fine, if you want to, if you think in your head that Justin Hall is the team's worst defenseman, that might be your opinion. But there's a way to ask that question, uh, that doesn't have you outing yourself as thinking that you think that opinion, but also putting Sheldon Keith in a position where he asked to say who his worst defenseman is. Like, there are ways to go about that. So I think Steve Simmons, I don't think, I wouldn't have asked the question that way. I know I wouldn't have done it that way. I have to think that he did that on purpose.

And I don't necessarily think that's a great tactic. I don't think it is. Yeah. Yeah, I agree with you. Now, Sheldon Keith and Steve Simmons wasn't the only interesting, I think, audio piece or, you know, and from, you know, information.

We won't play the whole clip here from Rod Brindamor. I just want to talk about it because Rod Brindamor was running pretty hot post game in Boston. After he said he would, quote, bet my life on it on that, on that goalie interference call in which he believed Jake DeBrus came in from the side

and kind of pushed the goaltenders pad and in his opinion he was like this was clear cut goalie interference he was like there's no doubt about it that there was goalie interference I wouldn't have challenged it if I didn't you know think otherwise does he have a case here like like and obviously that was

a massive goal that swung and now the Boston Bruins are right back in this series it's 2-2 I can understand why Rod Brindamore is sour Does he have a case here? Yeah, I was trying to look at that play and try to see if there was a case to be made. I'm led to believe he definitely did have a case. I mean, he'll always have a case considering how difficult to interpret goalie interference is in the National Hockey League.

So, I'm inclined to decide with Rod on that. And I'm always all for players and personnel and coaches and all that speaking out against stuff like that. Because if people, I get, you know what, people could get fine for that stuff. but the more people bring out, you know, how inconsistent or how wild the goalie interference stuff is, the more we shine a light on that, maybe the NHL does something about it. Hey, maybe they don't. But it's more notable for us as media types that we see people talk about that stuff. So I don't have a problem with Rob Brindon Moore going out to the media and saying what he said.

I think he had a case. That wasn't the only moment in Boston, Carolina, that I thought was a talking. point. And the other one I want to talk to you about is at the end of the game, Brad Marchand essentially has an empty net breakaway opportunity for the Bruins. And as he's approaching the empty net, Carolina defenseman Tony DiAngelo hurls his stick at Marshan to break up the attempt. Now, we know by law and by the rule, if you throw your stick on an empty net, it's

automatically a goal. And if you throw your stick intentionally, if a guy was on a breakaway with a goalie, it would be a penalty shot. The way in which DeAngelo threw his stick, I don't think I've ever seen this before, Julian. Like, it was a combination of I'm angry and I'm frustrated. Like, it almost made me thinking. And I thought Sarah Sivian did a great job in her column post-game kind of saying,

like, it's a metaphor for like are the hurricanes kind of losing their grip on this series. But I don't like the way that DeAngelo threw his stick in that manner because it was just, like, what are you doing, guy? Like, what are you doing there? I thought it was dangerous Because depending on how that stick bounces Maybe that that pops up and hits Marsha It was a very dangerous and reckless play

But I mean for guy like for Tony DiAngelo He was already pretty rattled I mean there was the back and forth Between him and Marshawn I don't know if it was confirmed or not That Marchaac called Tony DeAngelo a racist But a lot of people on Twitter seem to think that he did So I know we have to be careful with that

But like a lot of people were jumping on that And then throughout the game, whenever Tony DeAngelo was touching the puck, he was getting all of these booze from the crowd. Like, Tony DiAngelo had a number of reasons in game four to feel rattled. And that probably, that stick hurl was probably the culmination of all those frustrations, which again, a dangerous and reckless play, which would have counted as a goal, regardless of which would have counted as a goal anyway, if it ended up stopping that puck. So I think the fact that he did that, like, clearly just lost control of his head and the situation in that moment. And maybe a bit emblematic of the fact that the Carolina Hurricanes had a golden opportunity. They looked like the better team through the first two games. And people were wondering, hey, man, this might be a sweep, even though they were down to Pejolter-Kochetkov in net.

And now the Boston Bruins have woken up. And I don't know. I look, the Boston Bruins, they are on the other side of that, like, Cup contention window. I think of a team like Washington Capitals like that, too, where they've kind of had their heyday, but they're still competitive and they're not seen in the same light as other contending teams. But, like, this could have the potential goal 7, too. Like, this is just, like, the fact that Boston woke up, you can't ever discount them with the players that they have. And if Carolina can't keep their composure for game five, could be a very different series being flipped on its head.

We could see an upset. Yeah, you know, and I think it's interesting, too, that, you know, we talk about like these old guard teams. Boston, you would think, is kind of past their best before date. We're going to get Josh Yoey to drop by in a second. We'll talk about the penguins in their window. But like Washington, Pittsburgh, Boston, for the past decade, that has been the, those have been the three teams that have completely dominated the Eastern Conference landscape. And they all have a chance to potentially pull off minor upsets or certainly, um, You know, it's tough when we have 100 points in regular season.

You can't really do the David Goliath thing. But if I had to ask you right now, you pick of all the series that are ongoing right now, you get to pick one that you're like, I am so sure this is going to a game seven. Like, what's the one series for you? And please say Colorado Nashville, because then I would love it.

Have some stones, Julian. Have some stones. So any, what do you think is like, pick the one series. You're like, I am so, so sure this one's going to. a seventh game. Okay. So from before the playoffs even began, I said Minnesota, St. Louis, because of how equal those two teams were. On another podcast that I sometimes appear on, I was asked to put together, like, the series in order of teams of series I want to watch most likely to, you know, least interested in. And I was also asked how confident I would

be that these series would go a certain way. Dude, Minnesota, St. Louis, I was so confident. confident that it would end in seven games. And I feel pretty good about that series, considering how that's going. I also want to add to your point about how Boston, Pittsburgh, and Washington have looked good. So my colleague, Chris Johnston, made the point on the CJ show that I think every team in the Eastern Conference that started their series on the road has basically turned their series around and has a chance to still win it. and is in it. So Boston, Pittsburgh, Washington, and Tampa Bay. And if you want to go to the Western Conference,

the Los Angeles Kings just even their series up with the Emmonson Oilers. The Dallas Stars, you experience Dallas Stars hockey. They have a series lead on the Calgary Flames. I thought that series is going to end in the sweep for the flames. The Dallas Stars have a chance to do that. But here's six teams here. And those six teams in the last maybe like 11 years, either if won a Stanley Cup, have been to a Stanley Cup final.

Yeah, like, those are teams we expect to see compete every year, essentially. And now we're in a time where Carolina should be looking to make runs every year. The Rangers are trying to bring themselves up and be a contending team. The Toronto Maple Leafs keep having best regular season after best regular season, and they still can't win a playoff series. The Florida Panthers haven't won a playoff series since 1996. This should be the year where we see a lot of newer teams kind of take over. And not only are they in situations where they're even or behind,

I'll mention the Calgary Flames as well because they've also been underwhelming over the last time of the years too. This should be a year where they should be able to go to not only to a conference final, but also throughout the year, I don't know if you've realized this too. Like, I know I made it. I made the comment that like they've looked playoff ready for a good chunk of time because of the system that they've been playing. We now face a situation where not only are some of the. those newer teams possibly like, there's a chance they're either going to lose the series out, they could lose the teams who have been good for the better part of a decade.

So it's weird to say like, oh man, like Boston getting an upset. It's just kind of like it's in their DNA. They should know how to do this. Pittsburgh. Is it an upset if they beat the New York Rangers? Like they've, they have Cindy Crosby who's playing out of his skin. It's really interesting to see how these teams who have, we've known to be good in the Stanley Cup playoffs for the last how many years were seen as under.

dogs in some way and they're just bringing the magic back like one more time. It's really been fascinating. Yeah. And you mentioned Sidney Crosby. And by the way, for me, I think Boston Carolina is going, I'm not only going to say Boston Carolina is going to a seventh game, Julian. I'm saying they're going to his seventh game and an overtime. Oh my God. Seventh game overtime. Book it again. Isn't that, isn't that, they had a series that went like that. Scott Walker won. Yeah, Scott Walker. Scott Walker. Scottie Walker. The overtime winner, 2009. So this is the Scott Walker revenge game is what I'm going to call it. 2013 years later, it's a game seven overtime.

But I love your pick two of Minnesota, St. Louis, because I feel like that is a flip of the coin. Before we get to Josh Yoe here, quick thought, because we've been dominated with obviously coaching talk and then certainly playoff talk, and then there's some fan bases that were like, hey, my team missed the playoffs. What about me?

Well, you get the draft lottery. Boys and girls coming up on Tuesday night. There is a made for TV draft lottery. A couple of interesting tweaks to the format this year. The first interesting tweak is that you can only move up 10 spots in the lottery. So, for example, when the Rangers won the Lafranier sweepstakes in 2020, they did so as the number 14 seed. If the number 14 seed were to win this year, you only get to go up to number four.

So that's one interesting wrinkle. And the other is that you can only win the lottery now twice in a five-year span beginning this year. So that's kind of to correct some of the, you know, maybe the Tambalini run Oilers or even New Jersey had some pretty good run. Nico Hesher and, you know, Jack Hughes and, you know, what have you. So that, that, those are coming up. Sean McIndoo, better known as Down Goes Brown, had a column in the Monday on our site on Monday, looking at the kind of like, who deserves? And if you talk to all of the non-playoff teams,

we're going to exclude Vegas from this because, look, you don't deserve anything, Vegas. You don't deserve. And by the way, Buffalo owns your pick anyway, so whatever. Damn. You talk to an Ottawa fan, a Detroit fan, a Buffalo fan, an Arizona fan, Anaheim fan, you know, go down the list, Philadelphia. Like, there's a lot of fan bases who feel like, hey, hey, hey, hockey gods, you owe us. You owe us.

Montreal fans are like, we, just went through hell the last nine months. So you're host, I'm speaking speaking with the voice of Canadians fans. They're like, we're hosting the draft. Like you can't give it. It's either like, you have to give us one or they're like, well, they're not going to give it to one. They're going to give it to Arizona. So who deserves it from just from the deservometer? Who deserves it? Man, that's tough to say, man. Like, it's, uh, I mean, the Canadians went through probably. are their worst season in franchise history. Like, and they're going to have the draft.

So I understood, I think the case is made that they could be the most deserving team. The Ottawa senators have been mired in subpar mediocrity for the last how many years. They could be one really good piece away from, you know, stepping out of that. Maybe they deserve it. Arizona, I have a hard time. No disrespect to Arizona Coyote's fans. I get their, they're in the pits right now. and I know they're going to be playing for a college stadium next year, like boo-hoo, all that, whatever.

I still have a hard time giving them anything. Like, no disrespect, but, like, I don't know if the deservo meter should be that high for them. Seattle just got into the league. They're still going to get themselves a pretty good pick, I'm sure. Philly went through a really tough time. I'm literally looking through the Tankathon website where they do like the draft lottery thing. Yeah. Detroit?

You know what? But you know what team probably has a pretty good deservo meter? The Detroit Red Wings. The Detroit Red Wings, you referenced that 2020 NHL draft lottery. Yep. They were the worst team in the National Hockey League that year, and they got to pick fourth. Yes, the guy they picked at fourth could win the Calder Trophy this year in Lucas Raymond. They've done well picking it forth.

They also picked more excited at four. But they still lost out to a team that got to play in the play-in. Like I feel for for Detroit and that's a team that has been just sucking it after this is a team we're used to seeing them in the playoffs every year and they can't even do it. So I think them, I'll say Buffalo. Yeah, Buffalo. Like the Zervo Meter. You, Jack Eichel wanted out and you know, you watch your franchise guy walk out the door. You've watched others like Ryan O'Reilly over the years ask out.

And then, you know, that might be the best. hockey market in the national hockey league. Buffalo might be the best hockey city. Honestly, like in terms of interest. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. It's a super intelligent, passionate fan base, and they've been put through the ringer for more than a decade. Okay. You know what I mean? Like, best hockey market? Whoa, whoa, whoa. Okay. That's a controversy. But it's very subject. They're in the converse, like, they're in the converse, like, they're in the conversation for me for best hockey market. When you watch every year when you see it used to be NBC,

it'll now be ESPN and TNT, and you watch the TV ratings in the United States for the Stanley Cup and all these series, it's always the two cities that are playing, so let's say it's Pittsburgh and Chicago or whatever, LA and Chicago or one and two, and then the next market is Buffalo. Like, Buffalo is always there.

Like they are an awesome hockey market. And my God, those people deserve, better than the clown show they've gotten in the last few years. So if you're asking me, deserve a meter, give it to Buffalo. It's probably because they ain't got shit to do until the bills play. That's probably why those raises are so high in the state. Poor Buffalo. Well, yeah, I mean, okay, so I'll put Buffalo high up there.

I'll put Montreal, Detroit Buffalo in like a weird, like those are like the top three teams I think are kind of deserving of it because the Canadians were generally the worst team. The Sabres have gone through enough heartbreaking. and they're trying to get themselves out of the depths of hell. Detroit Red Wings are a bit of the same market as well. And then maybe Ottawa and then Arizona. I just don't want to give Arizona that much credit as like the worst team.

I know they had it really bad, but they did that on purpose. They did that on purpose to suck. Exactly. The Canadians did not intentionally tank. All right, Julian, excited to bring our guest onto the pod for this week because I tell you, I think of all the series that have had some surprising starts to them, I think Pittsburgh ahead of New York at the time of this. this recording would be at the top of a lot of people's list.

So let's bring him in because he was a little bit pessimistic when I had him on last week, Josh Yoey was, about the Penguins' chances. And yet here we are, Pittsburgh ahead in this series. We'll bring them in. First of all, Josh, on a game day, thanks for dropping by the podcast here again. Oh, always a pleasure. And what, you didn't think Louis Doming would take two or three against the best goalie in the world to start the series? Oh, man.

It's really not on spicy pork and broccoli. Yeah. Yeah, it's been, look, it's been fascinating the watches unfold. You brought up Louis Doming's name. Let's get this out of the way right away. Can you give our listeners a bit of an update on Tristan Jari's status? We know Casey DeSmith is a no-go for the rest of the postseason, but when could we potentially see Pittsburgh's number one goalie back in the net?

Well, I can tell you, Jari first started skating again on Saturday morning during the morning skate. He had a day off Sunday from skating, but that was the plan. They didn't want him skating two days in a row at first just to be safe. I can tell you, as we speak, Jari is on the ice, and he's actually taking shots in practice this morning. So that tells me Saturday went pretty well. He has not been ruled out for this entire series. I would not expect to see him, obviously, tonight. I would not expect to see him in game five at the garden.

If we get to a game six in Pittsburgh or a game seven back in New York, he hasn't been ruled out yet, and so far so good from what we've seen on the ice, and wouldn't that add some spice since we're talking about spicy things? If Tristan Jari showed up maybe for game seven at Madison Square Garden, that would be something. That'd be nuts. And even if Tristan Jari was healthy, I think a lot of people looked at this series and said, okay, clearly Igor Shisjerkin is the best goalie in this series. That being said, I mean, the Penguins have the series lead they have for a reason.

They've been able to score goals past a guy who will likely win the Vezna this year. How do you think the penguins have been able to solve Igor Shisjerkin in this series? Well, it's been interesting. And I also, just the fact that the Rangers steamrolled the penguins in three straight games late in the regular season, that was probably the biggest reason, goaltending aside why I thought New York would win this series, and they still may. We'll see. The single biggest reason I would throw at you is the guy who wears number 87. Sidney Crosby is like a time machine.

He's got six points in three games, but it's not just that if you're watching these games, some of the stuff he's doing, we haven't seen him move like this in years. what he did behind the net in the third period to Kandre Miller. That was the old Jason Spezum move from the 2010 playoffs against Ottawa. I mean, he's like putting on a show every. He's feeling it right now. Crosby, he really is. And I don't know if it's just because he's healthy.

He's had his own issues with the sports hernius and stuff that really irritated him for a couple of years after he had the surgery. I think he's healthy now. I think he knows this could be his last postseason with both Crystal Tangen of Gunny Malkin. I think maybe that's some extra motivation. motivation, whatever the case may be, he's in a different world right now. And when he plays like this, it's not easy to beat that team four out of seven games.

And, you know, along those lines, look, 87 has been dynamite. What about 71? What about Afghani Malkin? And maybe Lattang in there, too. Where have Littang and Malkin's games been at through the first three games here? Well, in the triple overtime game in Game 1, Ian, I thought Latang was just awesome. He was one of the best players on the ice. And he's at his best in those kinds of games because of his endurance. The guy doesn't get tired.

I mean, he's just a marvel to watch in those double, triple overtime games because of that. But he was horrendous in game three, though. He turned the puck over three or four times while the Penguins were on the power play, alone giving the Rangers good chances. And in fact, they scored the game time goal because of his mistake. He needs to be better. And the biggest problem for him, I think, is that his regular defense partner, Brian Dummolin is hurt.

and I don't think Dumlin's going to play tonight either. It's just the partner he's had for so many years. He's comfortable with him. Well, Tang and Mike Matheson are a little too similar. They're both used to having the puck a lot and kind of taking control. And I don't like them together. I think that's been a real issue. As for Gino Malkin, you know, he scored 20 goals and 41 games this season

after coming back from the ACL injury. And you see that, wow, that's impressive. That's a 40 goal pace, and it is. what I will say for Malcon, he's still great on the power play. He's still great when the game is stationary. Five on five, however, he doesn't have the wheels that he once did. And against the team like the Rangers, the way they can skate, he has struggled at times. And that still might be the biggest factor in this series other than goal-tening.

If the Penguins can get anything from Malcon's line five-on-five, I know he scored the overtime winner in game one, but he's been pretty quiet. Other than that, I still think they need him to be a little better. What do you think about Jake Gensel? Just looking at his numbers in the playoffs of the last few years. And his first two playoff runs, obviously, just being a standout player. But he's kind of cooled off since. But I can understand Sidney Crosby has kind of helped out with some of those numbers too.

But now he has four goals in three games with the penguins. You know, Mike Sullivan uses a word to describe them a lot. He always says, I won't do the Boston accent because I'm no good at it. But he always says, he always says Jake plays with courage. And it's true. Genswell's listed at 180 pounds. I don't think he's that big. And watch where he scores most of his goals from.

He goes right to the net. And the last couple of years in the playoffs, especially against the islanders, I mean, they just beat him to a pulp. They just, I mean, the abuse he was taken and it wore on him.

It did. And so he's out there against Miller and Jacob Trubo who are two big, physical, nasty guys. And it's just not impacting him as much. And he and Crosby are locked in. I gave Crosby all the credit earlier. I should have mentioned Gensel, too.

It takes two to tango. and he's the finisher. He is playing out of his mind. I think that was his 30th career playoff goal, the empty net or the other night. It's like in 50-some games, something ridiculous. His first two years in the league, he was top five all time and goals per game in the playoffs.

That's a hard one to keep up, but he's a great player. And what I will tell you about Gensel, yes, it helps when you're playing with one of the great playmakers of all time. But he is not a creation of Sidney Crosby. He's a really good player. We would know his name if he was a national

predator. That's just the kind of player Gensel is. You know, and you're given credit to Gensel and to Sid and obviously Louis Doming deserves them too. The guy that I think always gets lost, Josh, is Mike Sullivan. And I, you know, when you talk to people, yeah, ask the average person in the, in the NHL, who's the best coach in the league. I feel like Sullivan's name nationally doesn't come up enough. If they can pull off this, and I'll call it upset, um, Does Mike Sullivan finally get his A little bit of do here?

I would hope so. And no, I agree with you. I don't know why that is. I think a lot of people think, oh, you have Crosby and Malkin. They're easy to coach. I assure you that guys like that can be incredibly difficult to coach, actually.

Not everybody can do it. And what Sullivan did in the first half of this season, when Malkin was out, Crosby missed about 10 games, said the wrist surgery, and then he had COVID really bad. Latang missed some time. Brian Russell.

missed some time. They were, I mean, they had half of an HL lineup, and they were still winning games. They were still on pace for over 100 points at the midway point of the season. And Jari missed some time, too. You can't tell me that's not coaching. This guy,

this guy is so good. He always has them prepared. I think he's a great modern day coach. He knows not to push too hard. You can't push guys in a certain way when they're making 10 million a year. It's just the way it is. You have to have some tact in the way you treat them.

I think he understands that. And more than anything, Crosby and Malkin, they haven't always loved every coach that was in Pittsburgh. They love this guy. I mean, they will defend him no matter what they,

he just has a special bond with those two in particular. And I think he's just a great blend of a motivational guy and an X's and O's guy. He's absolutely one of the best coaches in hockey. He always gives them a chance in every series as far as I'm concerned.

I'm curious about this core. Throughout, Obviously not being in the Pittsburgh market and hearing other people talk about them, there's been this kind of last dance vibe. And obviously in connection with the Michael Jordan Bulls of the 90s and the run they went through the documentary that that was all we had to watch during the pandemic. Remember? Anyway, the penguins have that with expiring contracts and the age of some of their stars. I'm curious how a series like this influences what decisions they could make with that core going forward. I think I watched all 10 episodes like 20 times each back then because we had nothing else to do and they were so good.

Yeah, nothing to do. What a dark time. Yeah, it was. It's fascinating. And I'll throw Brian Rust in there too. I mean, he's been a pretty big part of this court. He's unrestricted this summer also. But Latang and Malkin are the headliners. I don't think they'll both be back next season. That's just from what I've heard, just my sense. Malkin has already said he's willing to take less money to come back, which is good. He's making $9.5. $1.5 million so that that would work. The question is how much less money is he willing to take? He's not the player he was five or ten years ago, but he's still really good. So where do you draw the line? He had a very humorous interview a few months ago when he said, I'm a really rich guy. I don't need that much more

money anymore. All right, that's easy to say, but when it still comes time to negotiations, you see how it goes. LaTang is maybe more interesting. He's still operating a really high level. We've seen the money defensemen around the league have gotten the last year. Crazy money.

And La Tang, he's never said he's going to take a discount because I don't think he will. And La Tang's longtime agent is now the general manager of the one Montreal Canadians, which happens to be. I knew so was going to say it. I knew someone was going to bring it up. La Tang is just very proud of where he comes from. He still spends a summer. He's a Montreal guy. He loves it there.

That's his home. His inner circle, his friends are primarily French Canadian from his hometown. That's where he loves. and so I know they're not a very good team, but if they offer him are ridiculous about the money, he might go. It would not surprise me at all. So I can't give you a yes or no with either one,

but I can't tell you it's going to be a really interest in summer in Pittsburgh. Okay, final question for you before we let you go, and you kind of alluded to this at the beginning of our conversation. So I'm going to present that scenario to you. You tell me what Josh Yoey would do if you're in Mike Sullivan's shoes. Oh boy. It's tied up. in the series 3-3.

Louis Doming is coming off a game six loss, but he plays really well. Like, let's say he makes 40 saves, but they lose three to two. Tristan Jari knocks on the coach's door and says, hey, coach, I'm ready to go. What does Josh Yowie do for game seven? Louis Doming or Tristan Jerry?

You can feel it coming a mile away too, or a kilometer away for our Canadian listeners. You really can. I go with Tristan Jari because I And I know there will be rust. He will have gone maybe close to a month without playing. That's sure as hell isn't ideal. He's a way more talented guy than Louis Doming.

And also, I can tell you just from being around Tristan all season, he has been haunted by what happened against the Islanders last spring when he was just horrible. He has been motivated, driven by that all season long. I would not deprive him of that opportunity, even if it was just one game. I would say, all right, this is what you've been waiting for all year, go do it. And I know with the rust, you wonder how he would perform, but he's the guy. And when he's ready, as good of a story as Louis has been and as as competently as he has played, I would give it to Tristan.

Wow. Well, that would be fascinating to watch if that's how it unfolds. And maybe- All series is fascinating, right? Yeah, it's been terrific. That's why we wanted to have you on it because we thought we were looking at the eight series and we thought this might be the most interesting and compelling one. So listen, Josh, on a game day, we really appreciate you dropping by.

enjoy game four and maybe the next time we chat with you we're setting up round two for the penguins but we appreciate you dropping by here on Monday. My pleasure guys anytime. All right, Julian, that was a great conversation with Josh. Let me ask you the same question I just asked Yoie. Would you go to Tristan Jari in a game seven if the guy hasn't played in a month? And like I said, let's say Louis DeMing is, he played 40 saves and they lose three, two.

Like he played really well and he kind of kept them in the game. Would you go to Tristan Jari too? I don't know if that's a good idea, only because he hasn't played in so long. And if Louis Doming has, if he's the guy that got you there, maybe you just go with that. And then if you get to the next round

and Tristan Jari's a lot healthier, then you go to Tristan Jari. But if Tristan Jari, unless Tristan Jari is undisputably at 100%. I don't know if you put him in. And then again, you know what? Like, maybe this answer varies because, you know, if we're talking about like Carrie Price, for example, like absolutely you put

Carrie Price in. If we're talking about Andre Vasselowski, absolutely you put Andre Vasselowski in. Like those are two guys who you don't even have to think about. You put them in because they are two of the best to do it and they give you the best chance of winning any game at when they are healthy. Tristan Jari, no disrespect. I think he's a really good goalie. I don't know if I'm ready to give him that credence yet.

But I also understand that, like, you know, he's the number one guy. He deserves to be in those game sevens when he's healthy. He hasn't played that much in a while. And if Louis Doming has been the guy to do it, I kind of look at Louis Doming to start game seven here, only because he's been playing as well as he has in this series. And, you know, what, you go down. I mean, if people say, like, you go in with your best guy, I mean, if your best guy's not healthy, not 100% healthy.

And again, that really depends on how Tristan Jari feels. Then I have, then you got to at least question the other side of it. Tristan Jari is 100% healthy. I can understand the other side of that argument. But like, if he's not, like I have to go with Louis Demang here. I can't, I can't be in a situation where you play your best guy and he's clearly rusty. And that ends up costing you in his series. You don't have to look too far either to see Tristan Jari not necessarily holding up his end of the bargain in a playoff series for the Pittsburgh Penguins.

in that series last year against the Islanders. Goaltending completely took them out of it. And Tristan Jari was a part of that. You know what I would say? I would start Jari in Game 7 on a super short leash. I would give him the Peter DeBore Robin Leonard leash, which is like, oh boy. Hey man, you might, even if you give up one goal,

or remember Brian Elliott played a playoff game for Calgary years ago and ended up getting pulled, I think after one goal, six minutes into the game. Like, I would start Jari just so you could, like, because if you lose game seven and your number one goalie says he was ready to go and you left him on the bench and you lost, I think there would be questions. This way you're like, hey, if he's good enough to put him in

and then let the game dictate. One goal, and you get the old cane and you hook them out. Maybe that's the way you go. Maybe, I guess. I don't know, but it's one goal. You need your goal to be a difference. Yeah. Anyway, that could be interesting.

Hey, listen, let's wrap up. That was kind of a prelude to a multiple choice question here. Like kind of who would you start in the game seven? So let's get to the little multiple choice madness here, Julian, to wrap up the show. Now, we talked about this earlier in terms of Rod Brindamore being a little hot under the collar with having a goalie review call on interference go against him. So let me ask you this, Julian. Would you be in favor of having every goal automatically reviewed by officials in the video booth

so coaches don't have to kind of waste the challenge and potentially get a penalty if they get the call wrong. Your options are a yes, B, no. What do you think? My thing is just as long as it doesn't take time. Like in the NFL, when it happens, like it's at a point where, like, we know all scoring plays are reviewed, and there's no elaborate thing where the referees have to, like,

announce to everyone, like, we're going to review this play, and then they review the play. Like, you just kind of, you don't really think about it, and like someone upstairs is reviewing this play. If the NHL finds a way to make it work where it's quick and fast and effective, then fine. I wouldn't have a problem with it. It's just that I don't trust the NHL to do it, have it be all that efficient. I'm sorry.

I think the way they handle officiating for certain things leads to pause, at least a pause, and I have questions about how they handle certain things. And I'm not, unless they prove to me, uh, someone who doubts that they could do this effectively, I have questions. So I don't know if I'd be in favor of the NHL doing it, only because I'm not sure how they'd be able to do it competently. That's the truth of the matter.

Man. So I'm like I'm toward because, yeah, like you said, the NFL, every scoring play is automatically reviewed, right? So a coach doesn't have to sit there and be like, should we, shouldn't we, should. Like, I kind of like that. Like I feel like like how many touchdowns, you get in an NFL game.

It would be comparable, wouldn't it, to the number of goals in an NHL game, roughly? Something like that. Right? Like something. So I don't know.

I feel like I'm okay if they say, you know what? Every goal we will, every scoring play, we will automatically review it for anything. You know?

Or would you be in favor of this? Just in the playoffs, you do that. Just in the playoffs. No, you have to do it all season? You have to do it. Yeah, if you're putting it in regular season and playoffs.

I get it, the postseason matters more than the regular season. But could you imagine game 81, game 82, a team needs to score a goal to make the playoffs and there's an issue there and you have to go to a coach's challenge and you have to allow on the refs for all that and that kind of messes everything up as opposed to having proper review. If you're going to have it in the regular season, if you're going to have it in the regular season, if you're going to have it in the playoffs, you might as well have in the regular season too.

Man, man, man, man. Yeah, anyway, it's interesting just after Brindamor. Let me ask you one other question. We kind of touched on some of these in terms of Barry Trots and where he might end up. Let me ask you this question to wrap up the show. If one of these teams gets knocked out, which of these teams do you think Julian might be in for the biggest offseason kind of makeover, implosion, change, whatever you want to phrase it, if they lose in round one? Would it be A Calgary, B, Toronto, C, Edmonton, D, Florida, or E somebody else? Flames, Leifes, Oilers, Panthers, somebody else,

who gets knocked out in round one and has it turned into basically a little bit of a makeover in the offseason? I think at this point it's probably going to be the Leafs. Because I think the Leafs for the sake of this team, the sake of the expectations,

for the sake of how people view them, like they need to win in round one, whether it was against Tampa, whether it was against Boston, anybody. They needed a first round series win to change the narrative and change how people view this team. And that core needed something just to kind of get themselves going. If they can't still get a first round series win, and I understand that Tampa is the defending champions, but they've had at least two games in this series where they flat out dominated against them. If the Leaves can't win this series after all that, Kyle Dubas has to make some change.

and whether it's a player being moved out. I don't know if this is a take or not, but like I don't even think how Duba should rule out a coaching change. Like no disrespect to Sheldon Keefe. I think he's been a good coach for the Toronto Maple Leafs, but they need something to shake up that roster and letting go of Sheldon Keith or what I know was extended.

Like that might be the easiest way to get that team going if it gets to that point. I don't want people, you know, being too alarmed here. It's still a two-two series anything could happen. But you have to think with the way the Leafs have played in this series, if they lose out against this Tampa team, even if they have the experience that they have, that has to feel very disappointing for this Leafs team. And someone has to move out of that roster. That's not to say it can't happen in Calgary or in Edmonton as well. It's just, for the Toronto Maple Leafs, they've endured enough of this heartbreak.

and they were like, you know what, we're going to run this core back. They can't do that the same way for next season. The only thing I'll say on Calgary is I feel like they've got their best player, arguably in Guadro, UFA. Matthew Kuchukchuk and RFA. Like, it's almost like they might have to make some tough decisions there that, anyway, but you're right. Toronto's been the one that's been the contender the longest,

although Edmonton would say, I'm sure people would say, like how much longer will McDavid and Dryside will put up with kind of being surrounded by, you know, mediocrity or, you know, whatever, however you want to turn it. Yes. So this is going to be, I think it's going to be fascinating. I think there'll be some, some seismic changes. And again, as we let off with the top of the show, would you get a, suddenly you get a Barry Trots is available.

Well, who's to say who doesn't, there might be other teams that kind of shake, other assets that shake loose, players, coaches, et cetera. This is going to be really interesting. I'll say this too. Like, I know Jay Woodcroft has helped that team. elevate to where they are now. And I know people were asking questions a lot about Ken Holland and what he's been able to do there. Like, if Ken Holland has an opportunity to bring in Barry Trots, I mean, I don't know.

Like, I think you have to consider it. No disrespect to Jay Woodcroft. But like, you have to consider it. That has to be a big ticket thing you do to help this core with Connor McDavid and Leon Dryside will get to the next round. Like, that's what you have to do. If Ken all even sticks around, who knows what the owners do. Yeah. No, hey, listen, we'll leave it.

My man, this was great. This went by like in snap of a finger. That's how you spend an hour. Just chatting hockey and all the storylines. And hey, listen, thanks for pinch hitting for Haley. And anytime we need that third voice or we need a backup man, you're our first call. So thanks for dropping by. Always a pleasure to do these shows with you, man. You know, Haley's got a really interesting series to cover with Calgary and Dallas.

I'm happy to tap in, you know, in relief. All right. Well, listen, great to have you. And we want to thank everybody for listening to this Monday edition of The Athletic Hockey Show. Follow us on your favorite podcast platform. Leave us a rating, leave us a review. We certainly appreciate that. I want to direct you towards the Athletic Audio Plus on Apple Podcasts.

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